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| 06:40.53 | crucially | replacement DB is coming tomorrow |
| 06:40.58 | crucially | i hope that will let use fix SMW |
| 06:56.45 | Fisker | steals the DB enroute |
| 06:56.58 | Fisker | (I'm a huge jerk) |
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| 12:51.16 | Kirkburn | Good morning |
| 12:52.58 | Ose | o hai Kirkburn |
| 12:53.02 | Ose | geif betas plz |
| 12:54.22 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Cataclysm_beta_keys_and_BlizzCon |
| 12:56.31 | Kirkburn | (So, working on it) |
| 12:59.25 | Ose | hmm, new music on the PTR? |
| 12:59.33 | Ose | or have I just not heard this piece before? |
| 13:00.54 | Kirkburn | Well, most of the old zones have been rescored in Cataclysm |
| 13:01.07 | Kirkburn | Or are you talking about even newer music? |
| 13:02.32 | Ose | I know about the new music, but I wasn't expecting it on the PTR |
| 13:02.54 | Ose | heh |
| 13:03.18 | Kirkburn | yeah, that's a little odd |
| 13:03.55 | Ose | new tutorial thing for newbies apparently |
| 13:04.41 | Ose | and this "playing before patching is finished" thing works surprisingly well |
| 13:06.23 | Alram | It's going to work even better on live |
| 13:08.39 | Ose | yay, 2s lag |
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| 13:10.51 | Kirkburn | Anyone know what happened with Semantic MediaWiki on wowwiki? |
| 13:11.01 | Ressy | disabled. |
| 13:11.12 | zeal | overload |
| 13:11.23 | Ressy | They were having issues with SMW.. |
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| 13:12.53 | Kirkburn | damn :/ always hoping that maybe this time smw will work without killing everything. Better than it used to be at least. |
| 13:13.12 | Ressy | Multiple sites were having probs with smw |
| 13:13.13 | Kirkburn | (but that doesn't help much if you still have to disable it) |
| 13:13.28 | Ressy | I know forms was causing stability issues with the farmville wikia. |
| 13:13.43 | Ressy | and others of course |
| 13:16.50 | Kirkburn | :( |
| 13:20.42 | foxlit | Meh on the method of disabling, btw |
| 13:21.00 | foxlit | They could've just stopped it from doing useful work, but it looks like they yanked the whole extension |
| 13:21.17 | foxlit | The difference is that now we get {{#set:foo appearing in inappropriate places in templates |
| 13:21.41 | pcj | well foxlit kd3 fixed that yesterday |
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| 14:58.47 | Fisker | Kirkburn |
| 14:58.49 | Fisker | you must be a jerk |
| 14:59.06 | pcj_2 | old |
| 14:59.56 | Kirkburn | I'm not old |
| 15:06.18 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (~Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno) |
| 15:07.03 | Sky2042 | Kirkburn: The two technical issues of [[Video]] I've noticed are that videos in <ref>s aren't linked back to from the video page. The other is the same for <videogallery> |
| 15:07.23 | Kirkburn | whatlinkshere issues? |
| 15:07.32 | Sky2042 | and on the file page itself. |
| 15:07.52 | *** join/#wowwiki Herodotus (pez@unaffiliated/recognizance) |
| 15:08.16 | Kirkburn | Hmm, that shouldn't be happening (obviously) |
| 15:08.20 | pcj_2 | also videos tend to clutter up the API |
| 15:09.34 | pcj_2 | and we don't want youtube videos "uploaded" to wowwiki, we would prefer to keep them external |
| 15:10.42 | Sky2042 | watches as pcj turns #wikia into a social channel with repercussion. Why can't that be how they treat Sky there? :| |
| 15:10.47 | Sky2042 | without* |
| 15:11.33 | Kirkburn | (Not getting involved :) ) |
| 15:11.56 | Sky2042 | (Which are you referring to?) |
| 15:12.07 | Kirkburn | (#wikia) |
| 15:12.17 | Kirkburn | On videos - thanks |
| 15:12.20 | Sky2042 | (I didn't think you would.) |
| 15:12.20 | Herodotus | (It's all Kirkburn's fault, either way.) |
| 15:12.25 | Kirkburn | pcj, how do you mean by API? |
| 15:12.28 | Herodotus | (Just saying.) |
| 15:12.34 | Sky2042 | ( Herodotus: Drp.) |
| 15:12.43 | Sky2042 | (That goes without saying.) |
| 15:12.48 | pcj_2 | kirkburn: http://www.wowwiki.com/api.php?action=query&generator=allimages&prop=duplicatefiles&gailimit=500 |
| 15:12.54 | pcj_2 | all the "images" without extensions are videos |
| 15:12.57 | pcj_2 | i've already reported it |
| 15:13.00 | pcj_2 | but they've done nothing |
| 15:13.21 | pcj_2 | even though the videos are "deleted" they still show up there |
| 15:13.55 | Kirkburn | hmm, not good |
| 15:15.00 | Kirkburn | Can't really comment on the 'hosting' issue - it's a fair matter of opinion, and a bit of an advanced user vs newbie thing |
| 15:15.13 | pcj_2 | the video namespace is a bad idea implemented badly |
| 15:15.16 | pcj_2 | enough said |
| 15:15.28 | Sky2042 | ^ |
| 15:15.48 | Sky2042 | And, frankly, "video" should be a canonical namespace redirect to File. |
| 15:16.05 | Sky2042 | Which is a mediawiki change needed... |
| 15:16.09 | Herodotus | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/92145/pendant-of-the-scarab-storm/ I must have this. |
| 15:16.11 | pcj_2 | *shrug* |
| 15:16.12 | Kirkburn | At the time we made it, Image: was still the namespace unfortunately |
| 15:16.26 | Kirkburn | Had File been the namespace, we might indeed have put them together |
| 15:16.27 | pcj_2 | If Wikia wanted to do it right they would handle video uploads like Facebook, as I've said before |
| 15:16.53 | Sky2042 | Herodotus: Intellect to the face. |
| 15:17.06 | Kirkburn | What's the outline of Facebook's method? |
| 15:17.10 | Herodotus | Does anyone know why Bibi posts The MMO Report on Monday rather than Thursday? I know there's a time lag between US and Europe, but come on. |
| 15:17.42 | Bibi | because Monday is potentially no-blue-post-day, and it's a nice filler. |
| 15:17.51 | Kirkburn | Good response :P |
| 15:17.54 | Herodotus | Ah. |
| 15:18.20 | Sky2042 | kills Bibi. |
| 15:18.24 | Sky2042 | banished Bibi. |
| 15:18.25 | pcj_2 | kirkburn: basically they allow video uploads but transcode them all to a common codec |
| 15:18.28 | Herodotus | I suppose the logic behind that would have made more sense if we weren't in zomg beta season. |
| 15:18.33 | Bibi | sorry Sky2042 |
| 15:18.37 | Bibi | you need a premium account to kill me./ |
| 15:18.48 | Sky2042 | ... |
| 15:18.51 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 15:18.55 | *** kick/#wowwiki [Bibi!~Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno] by Sky2042 (No, no I don't.) |
| 15:18.56 | *** join/#wowwiki Bibi (~Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 15:18.59 | *** mode/#wowwiki [-o Sky2042] by Sky2042 |
| 15:18.59 | Kirkburn | pcj, ah, essentially true hosting? |
| 15:19.02 | pcj_2 | yes |
| 15:19.10 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Bibi] by ChanServ |
| 15:19.13 | Bibi | now you re just being a showoff |
| 15:19.16 | Bibi | :( |
| 15:19.24 | Herodotus | <3 |
| 15:19.32 | Sky2042 | Bibi: You claimed I needed a premium account. I showed you that I didn't. |
| 15:19.34 | Sky2042 | ^_^ |
| 15:20.12 | Sky2042 | Also, pcj, that youtube of ants is... scary. |
| 15:20.25 | Bibi | Sky2042: I don't care you're mean. |
| 15:20.40 | Sky2042 | Bibi: And you're French. That's your default. |
| 15:21.01 | Bibi | yeah well I'd rather be french than you! |
| 15:21.16 | Sky2042 | And I'd rather be me than French. |
| 15:21.21 | nms | i'm glad i'm neither |
| 15:21.31 | Sky2042 | kills nms for his insolence. |
| 15:21.57 | nms | if i'd said i wanted to be you, wouldn't you have felt threatened? |
| 15:22.12 | Sky2042 | No. I would have felt flattered. |
| 15:22.49 | nms | it's not like we can both be you, and i assume you'd prefer to keep being you |
| 15:23.04 | Kirkburn | pcj, not sure we can do hosting, but I'm making notes |
| 15:23.31 | nms | lol |
| 15:23.58 | Kirkburn | We certainly have an issue with a fairly disparate feature set between tools, which I want (and plan) to fix. |
| 15:23.59 | Sky2042 | wonders about Ressolute sometimes... |
| 15:24.20 | Kirkburn | (e.g. we have videogallery and gallery ... there's no point having two) |
| 15:24.29 | Sky2042 | kills Ressy for having a name like Ressolute... |
| 15:24.43 | Sky2042 | is in a bad mood this morning, no? |
| 15:25.34 | Kirkburn | I don't know, are you? |
| 15:25.45 | Sky2042 | Can't you see all the dead people? |
| 15:25.59 | Kirkburn | Technically, no |
| 15:26.23 | Sky2042 | Oh. |
| 15:26.42 | Sky2042 | Well... I've been a bad Sky2042 this morning. |
| 15:27.26 | pcj_2 | kirkburn: you already do technically support video hosting with OGG |
| 15:27.31 | pcj_2 | the point is make it more accessible |
| 15:28.08 | Sky2042 | Also, $20 says TAFKA L80ETC level up at BlizzCon. |
| 15:28.27 | Kirkburn | True, though generally people are link to videos they themselves didn't make |
| 15:29.47 | pcj_2 | that's what the <youtube> tag is for |
| 15:29.54 | pcj_2 | I fail to see the need of making it feel like they are uploading them |
| 15:30.07 | Sky2042 | (Speaking of <youtube>, I plan to add that next to the list of things to remove.) |
| 15:30.11 | pcj_2 | it's just one more administration step |
| 15:30.30 | Kirkburn | Sky2042, you want to entirely remove the ability to display videos? |
| 15:30.36 | Sky2042 | Yes. |
| 15:30.49 | Kirkburn | That seems a bit extreme |
| 15:31.05 | pcj_2 | sky2042 is a zealot |
| 15:31.33 | Sky2042 | One: Non-free. Two: Long loading time on skins that already take forever to load. Three: Elinks were bad enough to deal with. Now we have people who want ---their--- video displayed on our website. |
| 15:31.33 | Kirkburn | pcj_2, it allows users to avoid the need to use wikitext (yes, I realise this isn't a widely held view here) |
| 15:31.58 | pcj_2 | kirkburn: the video embed tool could just as easily generate <youtube> tags as it does [[video]] tags |
| 15:32.43 | pcj_2 | the main thing i have a problem with is them being "hosted" (but not really) on WoWWiki |
| 15:32.44 | Kirkburn | This is I suppose true (and the other argument that it allows more than youtube would be solved by a tag rename) |
| 15:32.45 | pcj_2 | it just doesn't make sense |
| 15:33.31 | pcj_2 | kirkburn: the <youtube> extension actually does support google video iirc |
| 15:35.21 | Kirkburn | I believe you're right |
| 15:36.03 | Kirkburn | Sky2042, non-free? I understand it can cause friction with people wanting their own videos for tactics pages, but I think that would be an issue whether we showed them inline or just linked to them. |
| 15:36.06 | Sky2042 | blinks. |
| 15:36.55 | Sky2042 | It's an issue that is _worse_ because of it. |
| 15:37.10 | Sky2042 | And external links are easy to deal with. |
| 15:38.36 | Sky2042 | As for non-free, the majority of the non-written content is Blizzard copyright (we might even say that the written content is a derivative of Blizzard works), and we should work to minimize how much media we have on the wiki. |
| 15:38.59 | pcj_2 | thats one reason uploading videos to the wiki would be better |
| 15:39.00 | Sky2042 | inserts disclaimer about Blizzard's allowing one image and fair use, etc. |
| 15:39.03 | pcj_2 | licensing and whatnot |
| 15:39.33 | Sky2042 | And you didn't even touch the load time, which you know is a problem across Wikia. |
| 15:39.45 | Sky2042 | rages about bloated skins. |
| 15:39.47 | Kirkburn | Embedding should put the onus on the host - from our perspective, it's often better for others to deal with that |
| 15:40.18 | Kirkburn | I did notice the load time thing, but I've not noticed it being an issue with video heavy pages |
| 15:40.40 | pcj_2 | YouTube links aren't really a problem with load times unless your computer sucks |
| 15:40.49 | pcj_2 | They don't pre-load the video until you click on them |
| 15:41.04 | pcj_2 | Loading flash is probably the biggest drain |
| 15:41.14 | pcj_2 | but that's not really a network thing |
| 15:41.37 | Kirkburn | Btw, if I'm not directly responding to a point, it's not that I'm ignoring it. I'm not really trying to debate the merits, but get a good view of what issues you're having |
| 15:41.56 | Kirkburn | Which means playing some devils advocate |
| 15:41.58 | Ressy | sry (again) Sky. |
| 15:42.27 | Sky2042 | kills Ressy (again) for apologizing for something which he has no control over. |
| 15:43.04 | Resa1983 | better? |
| 15:43.07 | pcj_2 | no |
| 15:43.19 | Kirkburn | Anyone recall a video heavy page to take a quick look at? |
| 15:43.26 | Resa1983 | any of the ICC pages |
| 15:43.30 | Sky2042 | I still have to type 4 letters Resa1983. d: |
| 15:43.34 | Sky2042 | D: |
| 15:43.40 | Sky2042 | Plus the tab key. |
| 15:43.49 | pcj_2 | oh god you have to type in IRC |
| 15:43.50 | pcj_2 | what is this |
| 15:43.56 | Resa1983 | lol |
| 15:43.59 | Sky2042 | pcj: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. |
| 15:44.07 | Sky2042 | Don't let the secret out. |
| 15:44.11 | pcj_2 | kirkburn: http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:TagsReport?target=youtube |
| 15:44.49 | Resa1983 | Sarth is a good page for that. |
| 15:45.00 | Resa1983 | 11 vids |
| 15:45.45 | pcj_2 | i thought we had a policy limiting videos |
| 15:46.04 | Resa1983 | 3 vids per strat, yes? |
| 15:46.07 | Sky2042 | We talked about it in the forum. |
| 15:46.13 | Sky2042 | 2 vids is what we decided. |
| 15:46.17 | pcj_2 | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:EL#Embedded_videos |
| 15:46.27 | Sky2042 | per strat. |
| 15:46.40 | pcj_2 | thats not what that policy says |
| 15:46.58 | Sky2042 | Huh. |
| 15:47.00 | Sky2042 | shrugs. |
| 15:47.56 | Kirkburn | Hmm, I don't notice anything particularly bad on Sartharion - several of the youtube vids only load when I reach that part of the page |
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| 15:51.13 | Kirkburn | Sky2042, out of interest, in case it has an effect - what browser are you on? |
| 15:51.32 | Herodotus | apologises t o Sky2042 on Resa1983's behalf for profuse apologies. |
| 15:51.40 | Sky2042 | Fx 3.6.9 |
| 15:52.23 | Kirkburn | Hrm, same here |
| 15:53.27 | Sky2042 | shrugs. |
| 15:53.56 | pcj_2 | i would think the version of flash and the amount of memory might matter more |
| 15:54.09 | pcj_2 | as well as network connection speed |
| 15:56.49 | crucially | we are getting a replacment box today for SMW |
| 15:57.23 | crucially | not sure when it is coming up |
| 15:57.51 | Fisker | not if i get it first |
| 15:57.51 | crucially | but supermicro determined the cpu was faulty |
| 15:59.28 | Kirkburn | crucially, great (well, about the replacement, not the faulty CPU) |
| 15:59.46 | Resa1983 | slaps Herodotus |
| 15:59.54 | Kirkburn | What kind of faulty was it? |
| 16:00.24 | crucially | dunno |
| 16:00.33 | pcj_2 | it would've fit right in at wikia |
| 16:02.08 | Fisker | i'm getting it Kirkburn |
| 16:02.56 | Kirkburn | If you say so |
| 16:02.59 | pcj_2 | http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100914/wl_asia_afp/australiamarathoncharity |
| 16:06.12 | *** join/#wowwiki Srosh (~Srosh@d057052.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:07.34 | Resa1983 | mutters to herself about stupid new software, stupid new templates, stupid governmental rules, and having to make 'how-to' guides for her office mates.... |
| 16:09.43 | pcj_2 | Resa1983: sorry |
| 16:11.23 | Resa1983 | I gotta pare the templates down from 430 mb each to 23mb each... While deleting extra shit, I have to customize it. I gotta do this for 4 of them. |
| 16:11.50 | Resa1983 | Its not too bad, but theres just too much crap. |
| 16:14.53 | pcj_2 | Resa1983: Word autosummarize? |
| 16:16.01 | Kirkburn | 23mb sounds like an odd limit |
| 16:17.02 | Resa1983 | Thats just the approx size it'll go down to after deleting sections of the template. |
| 16:17.38 | Resa1983 | Our templates are actual files themselves, that when you close them, they sorta zip down to only 1mb |
| 16:18.41 | Resa1983 | Small company, small server. The total amount of data we backup every night is about 4-5gb. |
| 16:18.54 | Resa1983 | it'd be 20x that if our templates didn't zip down |
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| 18:18.47 | g0urra | erm kd3 |
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| 18:18.52 | g0urra | I must have missed something |
| 18:18.53 | g0urra | 4.0.3? |
| 18:19.09 | foxlit | yes |
| 18:19.16 | foxlit | and 4.0.1 |
| 18:19.22 | foxlit | but in the opposite order |
| 18:19.47 | Ose | :O |
| 18:19.55 | Ose | wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud? |
| 18:19.58 | Fisker | g0urra |
| 18:19.59 | Fisker | g0urra |
| 18:20.25 | foxlit | 4.0.1 is the systems patch, 4.0.3 is the content patch, both before Cataclysm actually hits |
| 18:20.42 | g0urra | where's this mysterious 4.0.3 patch said |
| 18:20.45 | *** join/#wowwiki Eraclito (~SD@host246-4-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:21.06 | foxlit | It was said that it was forged in the fires of mount doom? |
| 18:21.18 | g0urra | facepalms |
| 18:21.25 | g0urra | brb more unfinished hillsbrad quests |
| 18:22.42 | kd3 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26726037173&sid=1&pageNo=2#31 |
| 18:22.44 | kd3 | g0urra, ^ |
| 18:23.01 | kd3 | (and yes, some of the articles my bot's retagging as 4.0.3 should be 4.0.1, but meh |
| 18:26.02 | Fisker | g0urra |
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| 18:57.24 | g0urra | and so the Hillsbrad Foothills story ended |
| 19:02.19 | pcj_2 | nooooo |
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| 19:23.21 | Ose | Kirkburn: moar beta key infos |
| 19:23.22 | Ose | nao! |
| 19:26.58 | pcj_2 | nihao |
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