| 00:04.16 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Curse's terms of use deserve a closer look - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/16/curses-terms-of-use-deserve-a-closer-look/ |
| 00:08.16 | Dotted | "IncGamers doesn't even have their ToU up! But they've been a pretty well-behaved site in the past (they used to be worldofwar.net), so I trust them." |
| 00:08.18 | Dotted | ehehehehe |
| 00:08.53 | Sky2042_afk | !editcount Sky2042 |
| 00:10.07 | Sky2042_afk | foxlit: Foxbot fails. |
| 00:11.50 | foxlit | "There's a storm brewing over in the UI & Macros forum, and it's about the terms of use for popular add-on site Curse." |
| 00:12.12 | foxlit | Comments about how fail wowinsider is are more frequent than replies in that topic |
| 00:12.24 | Sky2042_afk | lol |
| 00:12.30 | Sky2042_afk | w2g dotted! |
| 00:13.30 | Dotted | Sky2042_afk hmm what do you mean? |
| 00:13.39 | Sky2042_afk | way to go. |
| 00:13.43 | Dotted | i know |
| 00:13.45 | Dotted | but |
| 00:13.50 | Dotted | what do you mean+ |
| 00:14.27 | foxlit | The comments on that post are going to call for popcorn |
| 00:14.45 | Sky2042_afk | foxlit: definitely. |
| 00:15.37 | Dotted | ~wtf tss |
| 00:15.44 | Dotted | >_> |
| 00:22.55 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@c-71-198-1-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:25.34 | *** join/#wowwiki kadrahil (n=kad@c-69-136-59-10.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 00:36.16 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Brutallus encounter hotfix - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/16/brutallus-encounter-hotfix/ |
| 00:37.46 | Dotted | also for those who care: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=2844496448&postId=28434213451&sid=1#1 |
| 00:41.03 | foxlit | I wonder what happens to the non-revokable license granted by the last version :P |
| 00:41.18 | Kirkburn|afk | FSm, I love ELO and Audiosurf |
| 00:42.52 | Dotted | OMG KIRKBURN |
| 00:42.56 | *** join/#wowwiki theurge14 (n=theurge1@64-126-115-215.dyn.everestkc.net) |
| 00:43.01 | Dotted | PLEASE LET ME REMOVE TARD INSIDER FORM NEWSBOT |
| 00:43.20 | Dotted | "Finally, you say the terms were already changed, but this is still in there: "you grant Curse, Inc. a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such content on Curse Website (or its successors and affiliates)", and it goes on in this manner." - Eliah Hect |
| 00:43.44 | Dotted | lets remove distrobution from the ToU thats a good idea |
| 00:49.20 | Sky2042_afk | Dotted: oh yes, because that's what he said there. |
| 00:49.24 | Sky2042_afk | -_- |
| 00:49.42 | *** join/#wowwiki MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 00:49.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, sheesh |
| 00:49.53 | Dotted | "but this is still in there" |
| 00:49.56 | Kirkburn|afk | The complaint is about the rights of the addon authors |
| 00:50.01 | Dotted | then he should be more specific |
| 00:50.09 | Dotted | and its fixed |
| 00:50.09 | Kirkburn|afk | "you grant Curse, Inc. a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such content on Curse Website" <-- is still not what they want |
| 00:50.48 | Kirkburn|afk | It's more acceptable, at least |
| 00:50.53 | Sky2042_afk | something about non-exclusive and royalty-free, as well as their license to do anything with the content they wish. |
| 00:51.46 | Dotted | it has to be non-exclusive and royalty-free |
| 00:52.16 | Dotted | unless the authors want royalties ;D? |
| 00:52.16 | *** join/#wowwiki harldephin (i=harl@dslb-084-063-101-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:52.37 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 00:55.05 | Kirkburn|afk | Yeah, you're right, it's better now |
| 00:55.50 | Kirkburn|afk | However, Dotted, you have ot calm the hell down |
| 00:56.01 | Kirkburn|afk | That the license was written as it was *is* newsworthy |
| 00:56.12 | Dotted | sure it was |
| 00:56.25 | Dotted | thats not why i wanted wowinsider removed |
| 00:57.26 | Dotted | i wouldnt want to be affiliated with a site that had such a license, just to clearify |
| 00:57.26 | Sky2042_afk | Dotted: isn't it your choice to keep or remove sites?... |
| 00:57.44 | Dotted | well yes, but as a policy i dont |
| 01:00.51 | foxlit | The quality of their analysis is lacking |
| 01:01.09 | foxlit | Hell, the thread they're reporting on is better than the WoWInsider article; may as well have copy/pasted it |
| 01:01.14 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-45-211.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:01.28 | Dotted | slow foxlit is slow |
| 01:01.38 | foxlit | slow foxlit is busy |
| 01:03.12 | foxlit | "s several of Curse's employees have helpfully pointed out to me, the new ToU are much better. However, I still have reservations about them." |
| 01:03.18 | foxlit | _them_ |
| 01:04.10 | Kirkburn|afk | The terms, foxlit |
| 01:04.24 | foxlit | There's no way to read it that way |
| 01:04.35 | foxlit | well, maybe there is |
| 01:04.37 | Kirkburn|afk | Um, yeah you can |
| 01:04.47 | foxlit | assuming you expand ToU to plural |
| 01:04.58 | Kirkburn|afk | It is in fact the correct way to interpret it |
| 01:05.18 | foxlit | Perhaps the intended, but I'd very much debate about correct |
| 01:05.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Since "terms" was the last plural noun mentioned |
| 01:05.34 | foxlit | It's significantly more logical to have "them" refer to "several of Curse's employees" |
| 01:05.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Why? "Terms" came last |
| 01:05.50 | foxlit | "terms" isn't present in the quote |
| 01:05.54 | foxlit | "ToU" is |
| 01:06.18 | Kirkburn|afk | It's an acronym, still refers to a plural noun |
| 01:06.20 | Sky2042_afk | You guys are arguing over grammar. |
| 01:06.27 | Sky2042_afk | When you can't do anything about it. |
| 01:06.30 | foxlit | Sky: The best kind of argument :) |
| 01:06.40 | Sky2042_afk | foxlit: debatable. |
| 01:07.08 | Kirkburn|afk | ToU is a plural noun: "the ToU are something", "the ToU is something" |
| 01:07.42 | Kirkburn|afk | So, no, he's not making it personal |
| 01:08.16 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: My log off spot - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/16/my-log-off-spot/ |
| 01:08.43 | foxlit | ToU is a plural noun only if you expand it that way :) |
| 01:09.35 | Sky2042_afk | oh jesus |
| 01:10.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Sky2042_afk, *hug* |
| 01:11.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Quick, someone mention a "personal PIN number" so we can argue over it! |
| 01:13.01 | Sky2042_afk | ... |
| 01:13.05 | Sky2042_afk | salt or pepper? |
| 01:14.51 | Dotted | which came first the egg or the chicken? |
| 01:15.02 | Sky2042_afk | the rooster. what else? |
| 01:15.29 | Dotted | actually it was scientifically proven to be the egg |
| 01:15.32 | foxlit | egg, clearly |
| 01:17.29 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-45-211.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:17.31 | Sky2042_afk | killing redirects is fun. |
| 01:17.34 | myke54142 | not sure why that chicken and egg thing confuses people |
| 01:17.56 | foxlit | The chicken had to come out of an egg |
| 01:18.01 | foxlit | And the egg had to be laid by a chicken |
| 01:18.03 | myke54142 | instead consider how we got to today's computers when all we had were ibm pc's running at 8mhz 25 years ago |
| 01:18.14 | myke54142 | yeah it's called "bootstrapping" |
| 01:18.15 | foxlit | The second one is a bit shaky given modern biology |
| 01:18.27 | myke54142 | humans do it with technology all the time |
| 01:18.35 | Sky2042_afk | .... |
| 01:18.53 | myke54142 | or how you can make a new operating system when you first need the devs tools, but you need the operating system to run the dev tools on |
| 01:20.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Nice to see you, to see you... |
| 01:20.35 | Sky2042_afk | Kirkburn|afk: aw, leaving already?? |
| 01:20.46 | Sky2042_afk | you might be the only sane one currently present! |
| 01:20.54 | Kirkburn|afk | No, I'm waiting for a Brit to answer :P |
| 01:21.05 | Dotted | lolwut |
| 01:21.16 | Dotted | Oh no more brits :( |
| 01:21.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Legorol, you appear to be online :) |
| 01:21.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, do we really need those clones? |
| 01:22.09 | Kirkburn|afk | :) |
| 01:22.12 | Adys | Just forgot about them |
| 01:23.03 | Dotted | mirc is win :( |
| 01:24.14 | *** kick/#wowwiki [Dotted!n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys] by Adys (mIRC sucks) |
| 01:24.15 | *** join/#wowwiki Dotted (i=Dotted@bureaucrat.wowwiki.dk) |
| 01:24.15 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Dotted] by ChanServ |
| 01:24.21 | Dotted | mirc is win :( |
| 01:24.34 | foxlit | Hm, I have an evil plan |
| 01:24.47 | Dotted | yes Adys i use it |
| 01:24.49 | foxlit | Could so break auto-rejoin :P |
| 01:25.22 | Dotted | foxlit i only enabled it because Adys kicked me all the time and i was tired of typing /j wowwiki all the time |
| 01:25.41 | Adys | mirc teaches alot of idiots that irc is a paying service and msn is better because its not |
| 01:25.54 | Adys | mirc teaches a lot of idiots that irc is not available on mac os |
| 01:26.25 | foxlit | with all the due respect |
| 01:26.27 | Dotted | i just havent seen anything else that meets my requirements |
| 01:26.29 | foxlit | isn't it better that way? :) |
| 01:26.42 | foxlit | I mean, what would we do with a lot of idiots? |
| 01:26.46 | Adys | Honestly foxlit its not |
| 01:26.57 | Dotted | the idiots is on quakenet anyway |
| 01:27.17 | Adys | there are harmless idiots (which are usually just computer newbies) |
| 01:27.28 | Adys | and plain dickheads |
| 01:27.48 | Adys | who usually know how to obtain an illegal copy of mirc because they cant be fucked to grab hydrairc or whatever client |
| 01:27.49 | Dotted | but Adys let me know if you find a client that isnt shit and is an replacement for mirc |
| 01:27.55 | Adys | hydrairc |
| 01:28.11 | Dotted | cant to spaces in ctcp was it? |
| 01:28.12 | foxlit | mozilla suite had an IRC client |
| 01:28.26 | Dotted | not a replacement for mirc |
| 01:28.28 | Adys | Dotted: no that was xchat |
| 01:28.36 | Adys | or actually i dont remember which one it was |
| 01:28.41 | foxlit | define "replacement for mirc" |
| 01:28.50 | Adys | id say something just as customizable |
| 01:28.57 | Dotted | you said hydrairc earlier though :P |
| 01:29.02 | foxlit | and to someone that doesn't use mirc? |
| 01:29.14 | Dotted | its for me |
| 01:29.15 | Adys | highly-customizable scriptable client |
| 01:29.19 | Dotted | not in general |
| 01:29.26 | Dotted | Adys got it |
| 01:29.26 | foxlit | Pidgin supports IRC |
| 01:29.40 | Adys | and i dont support pidgin's irc |
| 01:30.00 | Adys | dotted, if you want something scriptable go for xchat |
| 01:30.00 | foxlit | Most things are customizable |
| 01:30.07 | foxlit | It's just that people can't code for them. |
| 01:30.10 | Adys | hydra is less scriptable than xchat |
| 01:30.19 | Adys | both are pretty much just as customizable |
| 01:30.33 | Adys | and both are open source, so recodable eventually |
| 01:30.39 | Sky2042_afk | The 13th was... wednesday |
| 01:30.45 | Adys | k |
| 01:31.05 | Dotted | also you dont need to pay for mirc Adys |
| 01:31.13 | Dotted | can be used past the 30 days |
| 01:31.43 | Adys | i dont care whether i need to pay because i wont use it anyway |
| 01:31.50 | Sky2042_afk | wait, wtf? DotA has an article on WP but not wowwiki? |
| 01:31.54 | Adys | i do care about the fact it makes people assume wrong shit |
| 01:32.08 | Adys | why the fuck should dota have an article on ww |
| 01:32.36 | Sky2042_afk | Adys: nice misinterpretation xD . DotA has an article on WP, but wowwiki does not. |
| 01:32.37 | Adys | not that im against but i dont get why |
| 01:32.50 | Adys | ah |
| 01:33.05 | Adys | well |
| 01:33.11 | Adys | dota got a song written to it |
| 01:33.13 | Adys | wowwiki does not |
| 01:33.20 | Sky2042_afk | oh. that must be it. |
| 01:33.45 | foxlit | Blizzcon held a DotA tournament |
| 01:34.03 | foxlit | Or we say it did. [[BlizzCon 2005]] |
| 01:34.13 | foxlit | Whereas wowwiki is a website. |
| 01:34.26 | foxlit | Websites generally make for boring articles :) |
| 01:34.32 | Sky2042_afk | yet another reason! |
| 01:34.36 | Sky2042_afk | -_- |
| 01:34.44 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google |
| 01:34.51 | Adys | boring website, boring article! |
| 01:34.52 | foxlit | Google Inc. |
| 01:34.55 | foxlit | not google.com |
| 01:35.44 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube ? :) |
| 01:36.24 | Adys | wikipedia needs to sort its damn references |
| 01:36.34 | foxlit | subject of several lawsuits |
| 01:36.36 | Adys | its taking two screens |
| 01:36.58 | Adys | foxlit, give it up, wow related stuff makes boring articles :P |
| 01:37.04 | Adys | websites are fine |
| 01:37.16 | foxlit | It's not even that |
| 01:37.19 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexa_Internet |
| 01:37.29 | foxlit | wiki websites about wow make for boring articles :) |
| 01:37.38 | Adys | yea |
| 01:37.40 | foxlit | company |
| 01:37.40 | Adys | eventually too |
| 01:37.42 | foxlit | not .com |
| 01:37.47 | Adys | alexa is not a company |
| 01:37.54 | foxlit | Alexa Internet, Inc. is a California-based subsidiary company of Amazon.com that is bes |
| 01:37.56 | Adys | subsidiary of amazon :p |
| 01:38.13 | foxlit | subsidiary _company_, get it right :P |
| 01:38.14 | Adys | wtf |
| 01:38.33 | Adys | they didnt even tell me. :( |
| 01:39.13 | Adys | Alexa began a partnership with Google in spring 2002, and with the Open Directory Project in January 2003.[5] Live Search replaced Google as a provider of search results in May 2006.[6] In September 2006, they began using their own Search Platform to serve results. In December 2006, they released Alexa Image Search. |
| 01:39.21 | Adys | oh no le deja vu |
| 01:39.55 | foxlit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncyclopedia |
| 01:40.10 | foxlit | That's a much better counter-example to my theory :P |
| 01:40.28 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:O_RLY%3F&curid=2119000&diff=191728568&oldid=186457051 |
| 01:40.35 | Adys | it just reminded me of that sorry |
| 01:41.01 | Adys | i just thought that guy was pathetic and hilarious |
| 01:41.10 | Adys | you know, this kind of guy use mirc |
| 01:41.14 | Sky2042_afk | how is deja vu? |
| 01:41.32 | Adys | sky, using google, then another company (ms) and then building your own search engine |
| 01:41.46 | Sky2042_afk | ah |
| 01:42.09 | Adys | yahoo used to use google, then they switched to their own |
| 01:42.19 | Adys | ms used to have google default, then they switched to their own |
| 01:42.19 | Adys | etc |
| 01:43.02 | Adys | search engines are all like that, even at the smaller scale (hello strange influx of wow database search engines!) |
| 01:43.36 | Adys | people realize they make easy money and tell themselves "hey cool i can get some too plz" |
| 01:45.21 | Adys | According to data at Alexa.com which ranks websites according to their visitor traffic, Web 2.0 video sharing site Youtube.com has now overtaken Google.com as the world's second most visited website. |
| 01:45.24 | Adys | oh the irony |
| 01:46.17 | Sky2042_afk | ^ |
| 01:46.25 | Sky2042_afk | That is too funny. |
| 01:46.33 | Adys | no its flawed like hell :P |
| 01:46.44 | Adys | all subdomains are accounted single handedly |
| 01:47.16 | foxlit | Netcraft confirms it: Alexa traffic stats are now representing all internet users |
| 01:47.17 | Adys | search coming from web browsers are NEVER on google.com, always a subdomain (.us for us residents) |
| 01:47.28 | Adys | and alexa is horrible yea |
| 01:47.41 | foxlit | er, you're wrong on the .us part |
| 01:47.50 | foxlit | My search bar lands squarely on .com |
| 01:47.58 | Adys | Yes, passing through .us :P |
| 01:48.11 | Kirkburn|afk | According to? |
| 01:48.13 | foxlit | I don't think so, but I can check |
| 01:48.20 | Adys | ff? |
| 01:48.30 | foxlit | safari |
| 01:48.34 | Adys | oh |
| 01:48.39 | Adys | I dont actually know for safari |
| 01:48.40 | Sky2042_afk | foxlit: lol, nice message. |
| 01:48.57 | Adys | [02:48:13] <@Kirkburn|afk> According to? |
| 01:48.58 | Adys | ? |
| 01:48.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Why is Google coming up as Google.com on IE7 then Adys? |
| 01:49.00 | foxlit | Most of those are derived from WoWRadio |
| 01:49.15 | foxlit | firefox goes straight to .com as well |
| 01:49.16 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: again, through subdomain :) |
| 01:49.22 | Kirkburn|afk | According to whom? |
| 01:49.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Who says this? |
| 01:49.25 | Adys | me? |
| 01:49.30 | Adys | I worked on the code there |
| 01:49.41 | Kirkburn|afk | o_O |
| 01:49.43 | Kirkburn|afk | huh? |
| 01:49.58 | foxlit | It's sad, realy. |
| 01:50.09 | foxlit | Every time I have a reason to start Firefox it tells me there's a security update out |
| 01:50.30 | Adys | every time i go on digg it tells me theres a security flaw in internet explorer, and no update out |
| 01:50.41 | foxlit | http://www.digg.com |
| 01:50.46 | foxlit | Do you feel lucky, punk? |
| 01:51.04 | Adys | http://www.google.fr/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=kLt&q=internet+explorer+security+flaws&btnG=Search |
| 01:51.06 | Adys | Im feeling lucky |
| 01:51.34 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, can you please explain "I worked on the code there"? |
| 01:51.58 | Adys | i was part of the redesign of the searchbox in ff |
| 01:52.06 | Adys | nothing more :P |
| 01:52.22 | Kirkburn|afk | "every time i go on digg it tells me theres a security flaw in internet explorer, and no update out" ... lolwut. So MS' patch tuesday doesn't exist |
| 01:52.39 | Adys | sigh :) |
| 01:52.41 | Kirkburn|afk | IE gets updates every month, similar to FF. Don't say stupid things. |
| 01:52.55 | Dotted | foxlit you have txt or something with those quotes? |
| 01:52.55 | Adys | neither IE nor firefox get update every month |
| 01:53.14 | foxlit | I hardcoded them into IRC code |
| 01:53.20 | Dotted | no matter |
| 01:53.26 | Dotted | send the hardcore :P |
| 01:53.30 | Dotted | err |
| 01:53.32 | Dotted | hardcode |
| 01:53.38 | Kirkburn|afk | Fine, it's not regular, jebus. However, IE gets updates as frequently as FF, so ... again ... don't say stupid things. |
| 01:53.42 | Adys | i got some hardcore i can send you dotted |
| 01:53.54 | Dotted | i got hardcore aswell, no need |
| 01:53.56 | *** topic/#wowwiki by Adys -> Chan rules: http://tinyurl.com/36u82j - UI questions: #wowi-lounge - We are an official fan site, obey the ToU! || [02:53:28] <+Dotted> send the hardcore |
| 01:54.28 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: except firefox has no security flaw left in the open for over 2 weeks |
| 01:54.28 | Dotted | im talking about the music genre tho :P |
| 01:54.42 | Adys | too late, dotted |
| 01:54.46 | foxlit | Adys: wouldn't that require updates every 2 weeks? |
| 01:55.03 | Adys | left in the open means known, foxlit |
| 01:55.03 | Dotted | not really Adys |
| 01:55.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, and I'm the Queen of Sheba. Critical stuff, yes, not everything, |
| 01:55.20 | Dotted | since its unrelated to the topic |
| 01:55.22 | Adys | security is critical eol |
| 01:55.29 | foxlit | And by "left open" you mean "fixed in CVS"? |
| 01:55.38 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, er ... okay |
| 01:55.57 | Kirkburn|afk | That's like saying "fire is dangerous ... eol" |
| 01:55.59 | Adys | ok kirk, quote me a single security flaw since ff 1.5 that lived over 2 weeks? |
| 01:56.25 | Dotted | ff1.5? |
| 01:56.37 | Kirkburn|afk | Wasn't the latest one not properly fixed by the latest update? |
| 01:56.39 | foxlit | november 29, 2005 |
| 01:56.40 | Dotted | that would be unfair you know |
| 01:56.56 | Adys | It was, kirk |
| 01:57.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Was what? Was fixed? Was not fixed? |
| 01:57.23 | Adys | 2.0.0.11 introduced a couple of additional leaks |
| 01:57.35 | Adys | 2.0.0.12 fixed those leaks and the security flaw |
| 01:57.52 | Dotted | why the hell cant i click play anymore in audiosurf? |
| 01:58.12 | Adys | because mirc sucks |
| 01:58.13 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, open the steam overlay close it |
| 01:58.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Or just wait for it to bypass that screen |
| 01:58.23 | Dotted | :( |
| 01:59.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, and there was over two months between 2.0.0.11 and 2.0.0.12 ... I'm not saying FF is unsecure or any such rubbish, just that it's not that lack and white |
| 01:59.19 | Adys | im talking about security |
| 01:59.25 | Adys | memory leaks are bs |
| 01:59.46 | Adys | theres a reason they were fixed in the repository but there was no update out |
| 01:59.50 | Adys | it wasnt necessary |
| 02:00.16 | Adys | as soon as the security flaw was discovered the patch was started up |
| 02:00.16 | foxlit | point me in the direction of two things: the security issues tracker, and the list of security issues resolved in 2.0.12 |
| 02:00.29 | Adys | one sec |
| 02:00.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Ah yes, I was right 2.0.0.12 didn't entirely fix it |
| 02:01.00 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/02/10/firefox-20012-is-still-vulnerable-to-directory-traversal |
| 02:01.19 | Adys | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi |
| 02:01.48 | Adys | kirkburn, i can find you ten articles that say the same thing |
| 02:01.53 | Dotted | :(((((((((( cant get score with deus ex ost :////////////////////// |
| 02:02.04 | Adys | find me that on bugzilla and you get ten points |
| 02:02.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, :( |
| 02:02.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, huh? |
| 02:02.36 | Adys | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi |
| 02:02.40 | Adys | go on, search :P |
| 02:02.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Search for what? |
| 02:02.53 | Adys | for the flaw he describes |
| 02:03.30 | Adys | if its not there, the chances it exists after being known for over a week are less than the chances you have to be sued by the riaa :) |
| 02:03.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Still don't know what you're talking about |
| 02:04.06 | Adys | bugzilla is mozilla's bug tracker and repository |
| 02:04.17 | Kirkburn|afk | That article mentioned that 2.0.0.12 didn't entirely fix the problem. What's that got to do with the bug tracker? |
| 02:04.25 | Adys | its a bug |
| 02:04.30 | Adys | any kind of bug is there |
| 02:04.42 | Adys | as well as improvements, and most tracks |
| 02:05.04 | foxlit | Search interface isn't very nice |
| 02:05.16 | Adys | it sucks but it's very effective |
| 02:05.21 | *** join/#wowwiki timba (n=timba@216.232.254.215) |
| 02:05.21 | Kirkburn|afk | So? I don't care, all I was setting out to show you was that it wasn't a black and white "Fx is secure two weeks after a specific flaw is found" |
| 02:05.30 | foxlit | Adys: all bugs closed for 2.0.12, go |
| 02:05.37 | Dotted | wth Kirkburn|afk i cant login |
| 02:05.41 | Adys | And i'm telling you that what this article says is bs |
| 02:05.45 | Adys | foxlit, gimme a min |
| 02:05.50 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, yeah, they're doing server stuff |
| 02:05.51 | foxlit | For bonus points, filter away anything that doesn't have to do with security issues :) |
| 02:05.57 | Dotted | asshats |
| 02:06.19 | foxlit | [answered to self: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html#firefox2.0.0.12 ] |
| 02:06.38 | Adys | see :p |
| 02:07.11 | Adys | now, kirk, im not saying ff is totally white either |
| 02:07.21 | Adys | but when I say theres no security flaw left in the open for over two weeks |
| 02:07.22 | Adys | I mean it |
| 02:07.32 | foxlit | I still can't verify that :( |
| 02:08.08 | foxlit | ALL of their 2.0.12 issues were announced on february 7th |
| 02:08.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Same as what I'm finding |
| 02:09.05 | foxlit | 2.0.12 itself was released on february 7th |
| 02:09.32 | Kirkburn|afk | 10 Firefox issues all appearing within the two weeks before 2.0.0.12's release, and none of the 6 weeks plus before that? |
| 02:09.53 | Kirkburn|afk | One has ones doubts ... |
| 02:10.15 | *** join/#wowwiki derekreiff (n=derekrei@74-133-93-123.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 02:10.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Of course, these flaws may have all been found in-house (and thus not known to the wider world), but for all ten, that seems a bit unlikely |
| 02:11.45 | Adys | wait a sec |
| 02:12.01 | Adys | why would you care if a software has a security flaw and no one knows about it |
| 02:12.10 | Adys | EVERY single software has security flaws no one knows about it |
| 02:12.16 | Adys | once you find it its different. |
| 02:12.23 | Sky2042_afk | oooooo closing in on 2k deletions |
| 02:12.24 | Adys | its pure logic... |
| 02:12.53 | Adys | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413250 |
| 02:12.57 | Adys | Status: RESOLVED FIXED |
| 02:13.04 | Kirkburn|afk | Sky2042_afk, lol |
| 02:13.26 | Sky2042_afk | something like, 10 short |
| 02:13.29 | Sky2042_afk | xD |
| 02:13.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, "no-one" knows about it or the "just the FF devs" know about it? |
| 02:13.37 | Adys | no one |
| 02:13.39 | Sky2042_afk | 15ish |
| 02:13.50 | Adys | if a ff dev finds it it gets in the bugzilla repository as hidden status |
| 02:14.05 | Kirkburn|afk | So they discovered 10 security bugs in the two weeks before 2.0.0.12's release .. incredible. |
| 02:14.23 | Adys | do you know what security is? |
| 02:14.29 | Adys | memory leak is not security |
| 02:14.54 | Adys | two security bugs were fixed in .12 iirc |
| 02:15.07 | foxlit | http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html#firefox2.0.0.12 |
| 02:15.08 | foxlit | 11 |
| 02:15.18 | Sky2042_afk | oh my |
| 02:15.47 | Adys | MFSA 2008-05 Directory traversal via chrome: URI |
| 02:15.48 | Adys | MFSA 2008-06 Web browsing history and forward navigation stealing |
| 02:15.57 | Adys | MFSA 2008-03 Privilege escalation, XSS, Remote Code Execution too |
| 02:15.59 | Adys | 3 |
| 02:16.02 | Kirkburn|afk | "This page will contain a list of the security vulnerabilities known to affect particular versions of Mozilla products" |
| 02:16.13 | Kirkburn|afk | "security vulnerabilities" |
| 02:16.13 | Adys | *sighs* |
| 02:16.25 | foxlit | Well, we're clearly counting different things as security vulnerabilities |
| 02:16.28 | Kirkburn|afk | It's a page of vulnerabilities, Adys |
| 02:16.53 | Adys | stored password corruption is not security |
| 02:16.56 | Kirkburn|afk | If you're only counting critical security problems, then say so, as I asked you to earlier |
| 02:16.56 | Adys | its data loss |
| 02:16.59 | Sky2042_afk | must make 2k |
| 02:17.08 | foxlit | MFSA 2008-10 URL token stealing via stylesheet redirect |
| 02:17.10 | foxlit | session security |
| 02:17.11 | Sky2042_afk | wonder how many i've tagged for sd :/ |
| 02:17.18 | foxlit | MFSA 2008-11 Web forgery overwrite with div overlay |
| 02:17.26 | Adys | No, Im counting any security bug that compromises passwords, data and files |
| 02:17.38 | foxlit | removes chrome overlay telling you the website is suspect |
| 02:17.40 | Adys | its the basic meaning of security |
| 02:17.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Well unfortunately we don't have to subscribe to your definition, but Firefox's own |
| 02:17.53 | Adys | sigh |
| 02:18.08 | Adys | all major bugs are put on this page |
| 02:18.23 | Adys | if theres something major, security or not, it gets added here too |
| 02:18.48 | Kirkburn|afk | phishing problems are a security problems, which does not compromise passwords, data or files |
| 02:19.00 | Adys | web forgery overwrite, url token stealing and plain text mishandling is not security and its flagged as low priority as you see on the legend |
| 02:19.04 | foxlit | "This page lists security vulnerabilities with direct impact on users." They don't agree with you |
| 02:19.49 | Adys | [03:17:28] <@Adys> No, Im counting any security bug that compromises passwords, data and files |
| 02:19.54 | Adys | [03:18:24] <@Adys> if theres something major, security or not, it gets added here too |
| 02:19.56 | foxlit | Attackers do not gain control of your machine, but can gain control of your secure sessions with other sites? |
| 02:20.11 | Adys | yes, that is security foxlit |
| 02:20.21 | foxlit | So why aren't you counting URL token stealing? |
| 02:20.43 | Adys | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=397427 |
| 02:20.45 | Adys | read up :P |
| 02:20.55 | foxlit | down? |
| 02:21.00 | Sky2042_afk | across! |
| 02:21.21 | montagg | Turn the middle side topwise! Topwise! |
| 02:21.37 | Adys | i see you |
| 02:22.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Even if we discount the low-prio stuff, that still leaves 7, 5 of which appear to be primarily security |
| 02:22.35 | Adys | no :p |
| 02:22.45 | Adys | file action dialog tampering is major, but nothing related to security |
| 02:23.00 | Adys | stored password corruption is semi important, but not security, its data loss |
| 02:23.10 | Adys | crashes with evidence of memory corruption blah blah its memory leak |
| 02:23.21 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm not even going to argue with that, since I obviously don't subscribe to your definition of security problems |
| 02:23.39 | Adys | No you just go with whatever arranges you |
| 02:23.56 | *** part/#wowwiki derekreiff (n=derekrei@74-133-93-123.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 02:23.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Er, no |
| 02:24.09 | Adys | Er, yes |
| 02:24.10 | Kirkburn|afk | "file action dialog tampering is major" is a security problem |
| 02:24.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Only by your definition is it not |
| 02:24.40 | Adys | timer-enabled security dialogs can be subverted by attackers using JavaScript to change the window focus. Zalewski showed that a user could be tricked into confirming a security dialog of this type by bringing the dialog back into focus right before a user clicked in a predictable time and place. |
| 02:25.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Tricking the user obviously isn't a security problem ... |
| 02:25.06 | foxlit | "Compromise your PC, yes/no?" |
| 02:25.25 | foxlit | let me just align "yes" with "Post comment", and we're all set :) |
| 02:25.30 | Adys | And what's just been described is obviously doable :P |
| 02:25.43 | Adys | you cant use that as security |
| 02:25.50 | Adys | er as security breaker |
| 02:26.03 | Adys | theoretically you can but this is basically impossible |
| 02:26.19 | Sky2042_afk | must get 2k |
| 02:26.26 | Kirkburn|afk | So why is it highlighted, Adys? |
| 02:26.35 | Adys | because it's a bug nethertheless |
| 02:26.41 | Kirkburn|afk | And again, are you only counting high-priority stuff? |
| 02:26.45 | Sky2042_afk | omfg i love Mikaka |
| 02:26.47 | Adys | Nope |
| 02:26.52 | Kirkburn|afk | The others are bugs, why aren't they highlighted? |
| 02:27.14 | Adys | because they are extremely rare, hard to reproduce, harmless, etc |
| 02:27.20 | Adys | = lower priority |
| 02:27.29 | Kirkburn|afk | And so this must not therefore be "basically impossible"? |
| 02:27.42 | Adys | No, it's easy to do |
| 02:27.44 | Kirkburn|afk | "<Adys> theoretically you can but this is basically impossible" |
| 02:27.45 | Adys | but impossible to exploit |
| 02:28.22 | Adys | if you were to want to exploit it the way it's described, you'd have to have the designer know exactly when and where you would click on a page after its load |
| 02:28.28 | Kirkburn|afk | So you're saying they make stuf higher priority because it's easier to do, and not based on security problems? |
| 02:28.39 | Adys | sigh |
| 02:28.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, yes, that's how phishing works |
| 02:28.43 | Adys | the bug |
| 02:28.53 | Adys | is easy to do, reproduce, whatever |
| 02:29.02 | Adys | you can easily change the window focus |
| 02:29.04 | Adys | BUT |
| 02:29.11 | Adys | its near impossible to exploit |
| 02:30.13 | Adys | because there is just no realistic way someone would know the exact moment at 50ms ~ and place you would click on a certain page after its load |
| 02:30.18 | Adys | try and think a bit |
| 02:30.49 | foxlit | Anyway, Adys |
| 02:30.53 | foxlit | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400556 |
| 02:31.03 | Kirkburn|afk | The way people click through websites is fairly easy to reproduce in certain cases - e.g. confirmation screens |
| 02:31.11 | foxlit | "MFSA 2008-06 Web browsing history and forward navigation stealing" |
| 02:31.19 | Adys | yes |
| 02:31.22 | Adys | security |
| 02:31.26 | foxlit | reported on october 12th, fixed on february 7th |
| 02:31.42 | foxlit | fixed in source sometime in december |
| 02:31.49 | foxlit | er, 12th=20th |
| 02:31.53 | Adys | Fixed december 12th |
| 02:32.02 | Adys | and stayed hidden |
| 02:32.04 | foxlit | Not two weeks. |
| 02:32.27 | Adys | was not published anywhere, not known anywhere else |
| 02:32.35 | foxlit | I don't really care. |
| 02:32.40 | Adys | *sighs* |
| 02:32.51 | Adys | you guys keep bashing on that i dont care either tbh :) |
| 02:33.09 | Adys | but you're more ridiculous than some situations you all mocked |
| 02:33.10 | foxlit | I'm merely pointing out that not all security bugs are fixed within two weeks of them being reported |
| 02:33.35 | Kirkburn|afk | And Adys, you confirmed to me that you meant "no-one" knowing about it, not even the devs |
| 02:33.57 | Adys | not even the community |
| 02:33.59 | Adys | the devs n |
| 02:34.00 | Adys | no |
| 02:34.08 | Kalroth | What are we discussing? |
| 02:34.09 | Adys | the devs are smart enough not to publish that publicly |
| 02:34.12 | Kirkburn|afk | <Kirkburn|afk> Adys, "no-one" knows about it or the "just the FF devs" know about it? |
| 02:34.12 | Kirkburn|afk | <Adys> no one |
| 02:34.15 | Adys | Kalroth: your mum! |
| 02:34.26 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, you change your tune when it suits you :/ |
| 02:34.28 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Sorry, didn't mean it that way |
| 02:34.39 | foxlit | "Adys: Kirkburn|afk: except firefox has no security flaw left in the open for over 2 weeks" |
| 02:34.43 | foxlit | Kalroth: that |
| 02:35.04 | Kirkburn|afk | Sky2042_afk, whatcha been deleting? |
| 02:35.12 | Adys | Hey kirk lets argue over microsoft |
| 02:35.31 | Adys | I'm feeling like bashing on vista. :P |
| 02:35.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Can't I make a ridiculous assertion first? |
| 02:35.46 | Kalroth | "Secunia has issued a total of 21 Secunia advisories in 2003-2008 for Mozilla Firefox 2.0.x. Currently, 19% (4 out of 21) are marked as Unpatched with the most severe being rated Less critical" |
| 02:35.47 | Kalroth | "Secunia has issued a total of 22 Secunia advisories in 2003-2008 for Microsoft Internet Explorer 7.x. Currently, 32% (7 out of 22) are marked as Unpatched with the most severe being rated Moderately critical" |
| 02:35.52 | Kalroth | FF wins, EOD! |
| 02:36.05 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, unfortunatelt Adys was dealing with absolutes |
| 02:36.31 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: Absolutes are usually relatively arbitrary. :) |
| 02:36.32 | Kirkburn|afk | We weren't saying anything about the relative security levels of the two |
| 02:36.50 | Adys | Kalroth: No, they ALWAYS are relatively arbitrary |
| 02:36.59 | Adys | zing |
| 02:37.05 | Kalroth | Adys: You're being absolute again, stop it! |
| 02:37.16 | Adys | I'm never being absolute |
| 02:37.20 | foxlit | "relatively arbitrary" mitigates it anyway |
| 02:37.21 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: If you mean the "2 weeks" statement, then sure. It's wrong. :) |
| 02:37.25 | Kirkburn|afk | The original comment was "<Adys> except firefox has no security flaw left in the open for over 2 weeks" |
| 02:37.42 | Kirkburn|afk | Fun. |
| 02:37.44 | Adys | Keep going kirk :P |
| 02:37.52 | Adys | Let's talk about how much vista sucks |
| 02:38.00 | Kirkburn|afk | No? |
| 02:38.23 | Adys | Dont worry kirk I wont destroy Microsoft yet :P |
| 02:38.23 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: But you could rephrase that sentence to say "firefox has had no SERIOUS security flaws left open for more than 2 weeks", which would make it correct. At least I believe so. :) |
| 02:38.29 | Kirkburn|afk | I mean, you can if you want, but I'm not going to saying somethign stupid like "it's perfect" or suchlike |
| 02:38.43 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, I kepy asking Adys to say that, but he said no |
| 02:38.48 | Kirkburn|afk | All vulnerabilities. |
| 02:39.00 | Kalroth | Besides, MSIE doesn't have NoScript, so it fails! |
| 02:39.05 | Kirkburn|afk | And yes, I agree, Fx does patch those quickly |
| 02:39.18 | Adys | kirk, go on, count something which could happen once every million years as a security flaw :P |
| 02:39.42 | foxlit | Kalroth: security zones and you, news at 11 :) |
| 02:39.59 | Adys | When Mozilla says something can be exploited and has been fixed they eventually overpuff it |
| 02:40.04 | Adys | because it looks better |
| 02:40.08 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, no? Exaggeration doesn't make a case for you. |
| 02:40.16 | Kalroth | The only security flaws I really care about are the remote execute exploits, which MSIE have had plenty of and FF close to zero (I only know of 1, but there might be more) |
| 02:40.21 | Kalroth | foxlit: haha |
| 02:40.51 | Kalroth | foxlit: Yes, like (l)users wont disable that the first time they visit a site that says "you need javascript to view porn" |
| 02:41.21 | foxlit | Nothing stops them from disabling NoScript |
| 02:41.23 | Kalroth | NoScript is a much nicer solution, you can enable it on a site-by-site basis, by simply right clicking once. |
| 02:41.28 | foxlit | If people are morons, they have it coming |
| 02:41.45 | Adys | lol |
| 02:41.46 | Kalroth | Where the security zones is a fucking mess, I doubt the developers themselves knows how to set them up properly. |
| 02:42.03 | Kalroth | And yes, we distribute software through MSIE at work |
| 02:42.08 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: I give up :p www.webkit.org |
| 02:42.10 | Kalroth | And yes, it's a fucking pain in the ass |
| 02:42.13 | Kirkburn|afk | From what I've been hearing IE7 and Vista have been doing fairly well so far - the Secunia vulnerabilties seem to be much lower than prviously |
| 02:42.33 | Adys | vista and ie7 |
| 02:42.34 | foxlit | Kalroth: Why _are_ they a fucking mess? |
| 02:42.37 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: Well there's also the target audience ratio to be aware of |
| 02:42.46 | Adys | where ms says security is not an issue when users say usability is a fucking mess |
| 02:42.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, give up trying to convince us of something ridiculous? Shocking :) |
| 02:42.53 | foxlit | Seem to be very simple - a list of sites and a security policy applied to them. |
| 02:43.17 | Kirkburn|afk | lol, usability, yeah, im |
| 02:43.27 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm finding IE7 and Vista sooooo hard to use |
| 02:43.37 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Oh oh ohhh |
| 02:43.49 | Adys | 17 seconds to copy 350kb |
| 02:43.51 | Adys | I had that |
| 02:43.54 | Kalroth | foxlit: because they aren't very flexible; internet, intranet, trusted and restricted. And the custom levels are far too verbose for "normal" use. |
| 02:44.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, a problem which is mostly being fixed in SP1 |
| 02:44.19 | Adys | oh oh ohhh |
| 02:44.20 | Adys | mostly |
| 02:44.24 | Kirkburn|afk | I want to get SP1 at some point to test it out |
| 02:44.31 | Adys | oh oh ohhh |
| 02:44.32 | myke54142 | dunno about regular use but ff kills ie when you're doing web development |
| 02:44.33 | foxlit | Kalroth: switch the internet zone to "high" security |
| 02:44.34 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm not going to say "fulyl" because you will try and use that against me |
| 02:44.36 | Adys | sp1 isnt out yet? :) |
| 02:44.45 | myke54142 | in ie you can't even do a simple "view image" |
| 02:44.50 | foxlit | Add sites you trust to "Trusted", and switch that to normal (medium-high, or whatever) security |
| 02:44.51 | Kirkburn|afk | It is out, but you can't get it easily |
| 02:44.53 | Adys | vista sucks just deal with that |
| 02:44.59 | Adys | and i used it for months |
| 02:45.01 | Kalroth | foxlit: Right. You know how many users will turn that off after browsing for more than 5 mins? |
| 02:45.02 | foxlit | More or less exactly what NoScript does |
| 02:45.08 | myke54142 | and of course - web developer plugin for ff |
| 02:45.11 | myke54142 | so awesome |
| 02:45.13 | foxlit | Just as many as will turn off NoScript |
| 02:45.25 | Kirkburn|afk | I say "mostly", Adys, because I'm not going to get myself painted into a corner for "oh noes this happened" |
| 02:45.34 | Adys | no kirk dont worry |
| 02:45.48 | Adys | you say whatever you want, theres too many flaws in vista to just hide them all |
| 02:45.53 | Kalroth | no, because NoScript offers easy access to toggle javascript/swf. |
| 02:45.59 | Kirkburn|afk | Security flaws, or just flaws? :) |
| 02:46.04 | Adys | flaws |
| 02:46.07 | Adys | i dont care about security |
| 02:46.15 | Kirkburn|afk | o_O |
| 02:46.25 | *** topic/#wowwiki by Kirkburn|afk -> Chan rules: http://tinyurl.com/36u82j - UI questions: #wowi-lounge - We are an official fan site, obey the ToU! || [02:53:28] <Adys> i dont care about security |
| 02:46.26 | Adys | honestly I dont give the least damn about security if what Im using is good :P |
| 02:46.31 | Kirkburn|afk | You asked for that ^ |
| 02:46.37 | Adys | but its true, i dont |
| 02:46.39 | Kalroth | Silly frenchy! |
| 02:46.45 | Adys | Ive been running outdated versions of windows, even IE for ages |
| 02:46.47 | Adys | without antivirus |
| 02:46.50 | Adys | firewall |
| 02:46.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Yeah, we totally weren't agruing over security for the last hour :P |
| 02:47.01 | Adys | anti whatever, and i never had a single virus |
| 02:47.06 | Kirkburn|afk | How do you know? :) |
| 02:47.07 | Adys | or compromised data |
| 02:47.18 | Adys | I never lost any files? Any data? |
| 02:47.22 | Kirkburn|afk | If you don't have something to tell you you have something, how do you know if you have it? |
| 02:47.27 | Adys | And I dont surf dumb websites |
| 02:47.36 | Kalroth | "A vulnerability in Internet Explorer, which can be exploited to spoof the address bar of a popup-window. The vulnerability has been confirmed on a fully patched system with Internet Explorer 7.0 running on Microsoft Windows XP SP2. Other versions may also be affected. Unpatched for 480 days." |
| 02:47.47 | Adys | lol |
| 02:47.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, wow, weird |
| 02:47.58 | Adys | LOL |
| 02:48.05 | Adys | No its not weird kirk |
| 02:48.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, even high profile websites get hacked |
| 02:48.14 | Adys | yeah |
| 02:48.21 | Adys | and even i risk bad shit happening |
| 02:48.23 | Kirkburn|afk | "Weird" is in the eye of the beholder, y'know |
| 02:48.25 | Adys | Ill cry the day this happens |
| 02:48.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Again, how do you know if you have a problem if you don't test for it? |
| 02:48.39 | Kalroth | The biggest problem with exploits/flaws are not the rate of which they're fixed. It's the rate of which users are NOT updating their shit. |
| 02:48.44 | foxlit | It's unlikely that you'll actually have data corruption as a result of a virus |
| 02:48.53 | Kirkburn|afk | Viruses and trojans aren't exactly well known for announcing their presence |
| 02:48.54 | Dotted | yes new leaked forceware driver |
| 02:48.55 | Dotted | s |
| 02:49.01 | Adys | Kalroth: dumb users get dumb viruses |
| 02:49.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, version? |
| 02:49.04 | Kalroth | Dotted: What version? |
| 02:49.09 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: fu |
| 02:49.11 | Dotted | 173.80 for vista |
| 02:49.16 | Kalroth | oh fuck Vista |
| 02:49.22 | Kalroth | XP/2000?! |
| 02:49.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh yeah, saw that earlier :) |
| 02:49.24 | Adys | lmao |
| 02:49.29 | Dotted | http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=18143&catid=3 |
| 02:49.29 | Kirkburn|afk | I *might* try it, once it's got some feedback |
| 02:49.37 | Dotted | i have to try |
| 02:49.41 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/ |
| 02:49.42 | foxlit | They aren't so concerned with wiping your harddrive as with using your PC as with using its resources to do stuff |
| 02:49.50 | Dotted | im fucking sick and tired of nvidia |
| 02:49.51 | Kirkburn|afk | ^ that site keeps a list of all leaks |
| 02:49.51 | Kalroth | no changenotes? :( |
| 02:50.21 | Dotted | they make the best bang-for-the-buck gfx card, but totally fails at drivers its so sad |
| 02:50.21 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: lets make it that simple |
| 02:50.26 | Adys | in years i never had a single problem |
| 02:50.27 | Kirkburn|afk | Oooh, I spy 173.90 actually :) |
| 02:50.33 | Dotted | ;O |
| 02:50.38 | Kirkburn|afk | "how do you know if you have a problem if you don't test for it?" |
| 02:50.52 | Adys | man |
| 02:50.53 | Kirkburn|afk | "Viruses and trojans aren't exactly well known for announcing their presence" |
| 02:51.06 | Adys | yes they do |
| 02:51.09 | Kalroth | Dotted: At least AMD/ATi started supporting open source (meaning faster fixes and optimizations, once the community behind them gets going) |
| 02:51.14 | Dotted | Kirkburn|afk where? |
| 02:51.24 | Dotted | Kalroth idd |
| 02:51.30 | Adys | a keylogger isnt seen until you get hacked in whichever area they were acting |
| 02:51.30 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17500 with a note of "coming soon" :P |
| 02:51.31 | Adys | for example |
| 02:51.33 | foxlit | Kalroth: random strangers on slashdot say nvidia linux drivers are still better :) |
| 02:51.58 | myke54142 | open source driver isn't 3d yet |
| 02:51.58 | Kalroth | foxlit: They are still better, but they're on a restricted license. So most Linux distros can't distribute them. |
| 02:52.01 | myke54142 | blame patents |
| 02:52.03 | Adys | nvidia linux drivers are barely good |
| 02:52.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, okaaay. Dunno how that supports your argument. |
| 02:52.15 | Dotted | i have never seen a whole series of drivers as the 169.x drivers foxlit |
| 02:52.16 | myke54142 | they can't open source the drivers or they'd be sued to bits by patent trolls |
| 02:52.25 | myke54142 | pretty much everything in modern 3d cards is patented |
| 02:53.31 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, there are few ways you would know that you have a trojan other than bandwidth usage which I doubt you monitor obsessively. |
| 02:53.49 | foxlit | Kalroth: I'm not sure why I'm concerned about the ability of linux distros to distribute 3D drivers :) |
| 02:53.57 | Adys | okay kirk |
| 02:53.59 | Adys | lets be honest |
| 02:54.01 | Kirkburn|afk | It's good that you've never had a problem, but don't always trust to judgement |
| 02:54.03 | Kalroth | foxlit: Desktop versions such as Ubuntu? |
| 02:54.17 | Adys | i dont give a damn if the chinese government knows I have naked pics of kalroth on my hd |
| 02:54.18 | Dotted | i really like how people always complain about ATi making bad drivers :P - when i have only had problems with nvidia severel times, and only once with ATi |
| 02:54.25 | foxlit | Kalroth: nvidia.com? |
| 02:54.43 | Adys | so unless i got affected |
| 02:54.43 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, Chinese government? Sure, I bet they're inetersted in that ... |
| 02:54.46 | Adys | i dont call that a problem |
| 02:55.05 | Kalroth | foxlit: I know of several places where it's easy to get a Linux CD, but you don't have internet connectivity. |
| 02:55.05 | foxlit | Your own government? |
| 02:55.10 | Dotted | installing 173.80 |
| 02:55.33 | Kirkburn|afk | I'd call getting my WoW account hacked or my personal details (name, address, etc) being known a problem. And the last one won't show up until your identity is stolen. |
| 02:55.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, good luck :) |
| 02:55.49 | Adys | lol |
| 02:55.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Tell us if you get an improvement |
| 02:56.06 | Dotted | gonna need alot of it when using nvidia apparently :P |
| 02:56.07 | Kalroth | As for the Adys vs Kirkbuns (teehee) argument - it's not very hard to create a totally stealth rootkit and it's equally "not-hard" to keep creating mutations of it, so viruscheckers wont find new versions of it. |
| 02:56.23 | Adys | i never put my personal details once on the web apart from my name and once in a while my birth date |
| 02:56.30 | Kalroth | There are so many secret spots in the Windows OS that it's almost silly |
| 02:56.37 | Adys | and yea kalroth |
| 02:56.45 | Dotted | metamorphic rootkits ftw |
| 02:56.48 | Dotted | reboot |
| 02:57.00 | Kalroth | poly* :) |
| 02:57.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Vista seems pretty secure according to - http://secunia.com/product/13223/ |
| 02:57.17 | Adys | VISTA |
| 02:57.17 | Adys | IS |
| 02:57.19 | Adys | BLOATED |
| 02:57.22 | Adys | AND UTTERLY USELESS |
| 02:57.26 | Kalroth | hahah |
| 02:57.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, whether or not you put the info ont he net is irrelevant :/ |
| 02:57.37 | Adys | yes it is |
| 02:57.44 | Kirkburn|afk | I mentioned trojans, not anything else |
| 02:57.47 | Adys | because im not dumb enough to put it on my hd either |
| 02:58.01 | Adys | but seriously |
| 02:58.07 | Adys | who gives a damn if vista is secure |
| 02:58.19 | Adys | its bloated, full of eye candy shit that eats ram by the minute |
| 02:58.20 | Kirkburn|afk | People like you? |
| 02:58.25 | Adys | No omg |
| 02:58.35 | Adys | i just died trying to tell you ive been running without any security for years |
| 02:58.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Yeah, not quite the same thing ... |
| 02:58.46 | Adys | and i never had any problem and NEVER CARED for security |
| 02:59.03 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: As for Vista being pretty secure; XP has been out for 5-7 years and it's userbase is huge compared to Vista. It's security is only relative to those numbers. |
| 02:59.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, true, but the number is still pretty low |
| 02:59.35 | Kalroth | MacOS users are using the same argument |
| 02:59.56 | Kalroth | Both OS users are a minority though, hence they're not that interesting for trojan writers |
| 03:00.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Vista is not that much of a minority |
| 03:00.21 | Kirkburn|afk | And certainly way way larger than OSX now |
| 03:00.36 | Adys | thing is |
| 03:00.37 | montagg | Holy crap, these dragon races are fun. |
| 03:00.52 | Adys | trojans written for windows xp are more often compatible with vista than compatible with os x |
| 03:00.56 | Adys | got that? :P |
| 03:01.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, lol at the "eats ram by the minute" thing. You do actually know how Windows works, right? |
| 03:01.16 | Adys | oh fuck that Kirkburn|afk |
| 03:01.22 | Adys | ive been using it for months |
| 03:01.37 | Adys | i can perfectly see the difference with ubuntu even with compiz running on full settings |
| 03:01.46 | Adys | compiz is three times more eye candy than aero |
| 03:01.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Vista ran perfectly well, as well in fact, as XP on a PC with 1GB of RAM |
| 03:01.50 | Adys | and alot less ram |
| 03:01.55 | Adys | and that is total bs |
| 03:01.57 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp |
| 03:01.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Then if you're so bothered with it, turn Aero off |
| 03:02.06 | Adys | I DID |
| 03:02.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, how is it? It's my bloody PC, I should know |
| 03:02.12 | Adys | it doesnt stop it from eating ram |
| 03:02.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, what date is that from? |
| 03:02.42 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, it does that on purpose, y'know |
| 03:02.47 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: The first row says Jan 2008 |
| 03:02.55 | Kalroth | So I'm guessing it's from this month |
| 03:03.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Vista will use a lot of RAm when it can. It releases it when it is asked to. |
| 03:03.04 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Dude, sigh :) |
| 03:03.30 | Adys | I give you that for the ram. Now lets talk about the slow copy? |
| 03:03.34 | [NewsBot] | <Kalroth> poly* :) <- meta > poly |
| 03:03.49 | [NewsBot] | poly is for nubs |
| 03:03.52 | Kalroth | metamorphic is silly, how would you code that?! |
| 03:03.57 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, which is being fixed in SP1. It's annoying, but not world ending :P |
| 03:04.00 | Kalroth | using your quantum computer?! |
| 03:04.07 | Adys | Even when the bug is not running, in 10 seconds i could copy 3gb under vista |
| 03:04.13 | [NewsBot] | has been done |
| 03:04.15 | Adys | under nux i can copy over 16gb |
| 03:04.26 | Kirkburn|afk | "When the bug is not running"? |
| 03:04.40 | Adys | when the annoying as shit bug that slows down copy like never |
| 03:04.54 | Kirkburn|afk | It happens on pretty much all transfers |
| 03:05.11 | Adys | No otherwise I wouldnt be able to copy 3gb in 10 seconds, but in 10 days |
| 03:05.33 | Adys | That specific bug happens on low size files (<1.5mb about that) |
| 03:05.54 | Kirkburn|afk | It happens on more than that |
| 03:05.54 | Adys | on over 1gb its totally irrelevant |
| 03:06.01 | Adys | well then it sucks more than i thought |
| 03:06.10 | Adys | dont take a bug as a pretext for an os not sucking |
| 03:06.12 | Adys | seriously |
| 03:06.38 | Kirkburn|afk | That is has slower copying times? I know, truly the world is an awful place |
| 03:06.55 | Adys | I got a 1tb hard drive here |
| 03:07.05 | Adys | which was over 80% full when i reformatted |
| 03:07.09 | Adys | I did have to do some backups |
| 03:07.33 | Adys | and yes it sucks to go out one hour and find some shit still running when it's one of the fastest hard drives on the public market |
| 03:07.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Won't disagree there |
| 03:07.58 | Adys | Good. :P |
| 03:08.05 | Adys | Now, let's talk about UAC. |
| 03:08.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Another things which is getting fixes in SP1 :) |
| 03:08.54 | Adys | Good! |
| 03:08.59 | Adys | Now, let's talk about the price |
| 03:09.06 | Adys | (oh ho, gotcha there) |
| 03:09.08 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, interesting stats on that graph, do believe it |
| 03:09.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, oh noes, I am so very shocked at having to pay for Vista |
| 03:09.37 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: Well the numbers are relative to their visitors of course, but it's still a good overall summary |
| 03:09.56 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Be shocked even more, most linux distros are free :P |
| 03:10.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, um, yeah |
| 03:10.12 | Dotted | I FUCKING HATE NVIDIA |
| 03:10.13 | Adys | And the thing I miss the most here is actually notepad++ |
| 03:10.18 | Adys | nvidia hates you too |
| 03:10.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, sup? |
| 03:10.27 | Dotted | no good as expected |
| 03:10.31 | Kirkburn|afk | :( |
| 03:10.36 | Kirkburn|afk | What happened? |
| 03:10.43 | Sky2042_afk | Kirkburn|afk: what have i been deleting? all over the place |
| 03:10.45 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Developer lockdown? :) |
| 03:11.07 | Dotted | i get the performance of half a Radeon 9600Pro on my 8800GT |
| 03:11.27 | Dotted | on all drivers except the leaked 167.26 drivers |
| 03:11.28 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, ouch |
| 03:11.40 | Kirkburn|afk | That's beta drivers for you |
| 03:11.53 | Dotted | nothing to do with beta |
| 03:12.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, you miss notepad++ where? |
| 03:12.05 | Adys | on nux |
| 03:12.12 | Dotted | every single driver released after 167.26 is no good for me |
| 03:12.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Well, it can work on Ubuntu apparently - http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm |
| 03:12.30 | Dotted | and 167.26 is the first with 8800GT support |
| 03:12.35 | Dotted | so hurrah |
| 03:12.48 | Adys | um wtf |
| 03:12.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, different developer lines |
| 03:13.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Code may not have been merged in yet |
| 03:13.10 | Dotted | i should have stuck with ATi, atleast i would have gotten some quality |
| 03:13.14 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Where do you see that? |
| 03:13.23 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh crap, link didn't work sorry |
| 03:13.26 | Adys | written in C++ with pure win32 api and STL |
| 03:13.32 | Kirkburn|afk | FAQ, see the last option |
| 03:13.42 | Adys | oh |
| 03:13.44 | Adys | nice! |
| 03:13.53 | Adys | wine, figure |
| 03:14.00 | Kirkburn|afk | yeah, just noticed that too :P |
| 03:14.07 | Dotted | Dotted, different developer lines <- well that should be the case with 169 > 173 aswell no? |
| 03:14.17 | Kalroth | oh speaking of vista we encountered a fun "feature" last week |
| 03:14.20 | montagg | Stupidest thing to code a yell into the beginning of a quest that's impossible to finish the first five times. |
| 03:14.26 | Kalroth | It translates the name of folders |
| 03:14.43 | Kalroth | The english word "users" translates to "brugere" in danish |
| 03:14.58 | Kalroth | We had a network share called "brugere" (not an actual folder) |
| 03:14.59 | Adys | it did that since xp kalroth |
| 03:15.14 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, how do you mean? The 173 series may ave been branched off before the 6800GT driver (stupid, but probably reasons for it) |
| 03:15.19 | Kalroth | When we tried to create a folder called "users" (that's what we wrote), it said the folder already exists. |
| 03:15.28 | Adys | oh |
| 03:15.39 | Adys | how |
| 03:15.41 | Adys | useful.. |
| 03:15.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Might be language pack related? |
| 03:15.57 | Dotted | no |
| 03:16.08 | Kirkburn|afk | (So that you don't get conflicts and multiple folders named the same) |
| 03:16.15 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: I don't know, but it bloody well shouldn't be translating the text that I'm manually typing :) |
| 03:16.18 | Dotted | iirc you dont have that with MUI's |
| 03:16.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, i think it may be the other way around |
| 03:16.41 | Kirkburn|afk | "users" already exists, but is translated |
| 03:16.53 | Dotted | Kalroth if you open folders through run you can use english names |
| 03:16.55 | Adys | Just as useful Kirkburn|afk eh? |
| 03:16.56 | Kirkburn|afk | Or that the names are reserved in some way |
| 03:16.56 | Adys | :P |
| 03:17.17 | Kirkburn|afk | yes Adys, so prevent name conflicts, as Vista allows you to switch languages at a click |
| 03:17.17 | Kalroth | Oh that could be, but the error was just that the folder already existed |
| 03:17.29 | Dotted | Kirkburn|afk internally it uses english names |
| 03:17.31 | Kalroth | We've had similar problems with \Program Files\ |
| 03:17.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, makes sense |
| 03:17.41 | Adys | Oh boy, I totally cant do that under nux, Kirkburn|afk :P |
| 03:17.50 | Kalroth | No Dotted |
| 03:17.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, shut up about Linux, it's not related |
| 03:17.55 | Dotted | yes Kalroth |
| 03:18.03 | Dotted | ok mine does |
| 03:18.08 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: Then stop advertising vista? :) |
| 03:18.13 | Kalroth | Hrm, the machine we used had it opposite |
| 03:18.17 | Adys | I could say the same about macos x you know |
| 03:18.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Sorry, who brought up Vista? |
| 03:18.27 | Kirkburn|afk | Sorry, who brought up OSX? |
| 03:18.28 | Kalroth | It was a danish Vista, but we had it switched to english because danish sucks |
| 03:18.36 | Adys | Me? OS X is an amazing os |
| 03:18.43 | Adys | and vista sucks, end of it |
| 03:18.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Kalroth, it was already in English saying Brugere? Weird |
| 03:18.47 | Kalroth | Trying to access c:\program files\ was fine, but then we tried to register a COM program and it failed |
| 03:18.48 | Dotted | Kalroth how do you do that? mine cant do it :((( |
| 03:19.07 | Kalroth | turns out we had to use c:\programmer\ (danish text) |
| 03:19.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Vista Ultimate has language packs, dunno about other editions |
| 03:19.29 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: Yes, the "brugere" folder was a share that we had created |
| 03:19.30 | Dotted | its ultimate |
| 03:19.39 | Adys | heh |
| 03:19.39 | Kalroth | a network share |
| 03:19.45 | Dotted | perhaps you cant when you use vita rearm :P? |
| 03:19.47 | Adys | I could never get language packs running on vista |
| 03:19.53 | Adys | always said download failed |
| 03:19.53 | Dotted | *vista |
| 03:20.00 | Kalroth | We ended up installing Total Commander and flipped the middle finger at explorer |
| 03:20.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, Vista Ultimate? |
| 03:20.06 | Adys | yes |
| 03:20.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Why'd you get Vista Ultimate? |
| 03:20.18 | Adys | Got it offered? :P |
| 03:20.26 | Adys | I dont hax programz! |
| 03:20.29 | Adys | except photoshop |
| 03:20.43 | Dotted | when i used the english version it worked fine, but had to reinstall and only had a danish version at hand and this one doesnt find any MUI's on windows update |
| 03:20.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Not heard of that bug, but I know the final versions weren't released until fairly late |
| 03:21.17 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: And I installed it to test it so I could come back and annoy you while being able to tell that I used it myself so you cant say anything :) |
| 03:21.32 | Kirkburn|afk | That's really ... insane |
| 03:21.42 | Kalroth | hahaha, Vista got .. super hidden files! |
| 03:21.43 | Adys | apt-get install irony |
| 03:21.53 | Adys | Kalroth: haha |
| 03:22.16 | Kalroth | "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Current Version\Explorer\Advanced\SuperHidden" |
| 03:22.19 | Kalroth | Suuuuper hidden! |
| 03:22.26 | Kalroth | http://www.theworldofoffice.com/vista-tips-tricks/show-the-super-hidden-files-in-ms-vista/ |
| 03:22.41 | Adys | Kalroth: Vista has hidden files you can see by ticking the option, hidden files you can see by ticking the other option but its not recommended, hidden files you cant see until you move them to trash and hidden files you can never see until you reformat |
| 03:23.14 | Kirkburn|afk | That would be because Vista is a consumer OS |
| 03:23.28 | Kirkburn|afk | I would have thought XP would be much the same |
| 03:23.30 | Adys | yeah and not a logical os |
| 03:23.38 | Adys | yes xp suffers the same problem |
| 03:23.53 | Kalroth | Kirkburn|afk: How come there isn't a GUI option to enable it? And yes, XP suffers from it too. |
| 03:23.53 | Kirkburn|afk | Logic would prescribe not allowing users to unintentionally break their OS |
| 03:24.04 | Kalroth | Too many hidden options in the registry |
| 03:24.06 | Adys | kirkburn... |
| 03:24.19 | Adys | why are there 5 kind of hidden files |
| 03:24.28 | Adys | when the consumer doesnt care about a SINGLE ONE |
| 03:24.29 | Kalroth | I'm fine with hiding stuff from dumb users, that's good in some cases |
| 03:24.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, yeah they do |
| 03:24.46 | Kalroth | But it should be explained |
| 03:24.50 | Adys | if the consumer cares about ONE of them |
| 03:24.51 | Kirkburn|afk | There's certainly reason for 3 tiers anyway |
| 03:24.59 | Adys | he probably isnt dumb enough to delete ANY of them |
| 03:25.06 | Adys | or at least not the necessary ones |
| 03:25.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Tier 1: Everything a user should edit. Tier 2: Everything a user wants to hide. Tier 3: Eveyrthing a user seriiously should not be touching. |
| 03:25.34 | Adys | what about the 2 other tiers |
| 03:25.54 | Kirkburn|afk | I don't know? |
| 03:25.59 | Adys | Well see :P |
| 03:26.04 | Kirkburn|afk | You said <Adys> when the consumer doesnt care about a SINGLE ONE |
| 03:26.13 | Adys | Hidden, Hidden with a big "dont untick me" warning |
| 03:26.15 | Kirkburn|afk | You really gotta stop making stupid comments |
| 03:26.21 | Adys | super hidden, and hidden until you reformat |
| 03:26.36 | Adys | yea kirk |
| 03:26.42 | Adys | the consumer doesnt care about hidden files |
| 03:26.51 | Kirkburn|afk | It is hidden, hidden in the registry, which is perfectly normal given the advanced level of the effect |
| 03:26.55 | Adys | so why make 5 fucking tiers when you just need hidden files and non hidden files |
| 03:27.02 | Kirkburn|afk | I just explained why |
| 03:27.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Perhaps reading what I type will help? |
| 03:27.12 | Adys | boy you're thick |
| 03:27.18 | Kirkburn|afk | This is silly |
| 03:27.18 | Adys | why FIVE tiers |
| 03:27.27 | Kirkburn|afk | No, that's not what I answered |
| 03:27.32 | Kirkburn|afk | <Adys> so why make 5 fucking tiers when you just need hidden files and non hidden files |
| 03:27.35 | Adys | yea but its what asked |
| 03:27.35 | Kirkburn|afk | That's what I answered |
| 03:27.52 | Kirkburn|afk | (the second half anyway) |
| 03:27.57 | Adys | lol |
| 03:28.13 | Adys | there are other ways to do that you know |
| 03:28.16 | Kirkburn|afk | You don't make stupid comments, and I won't feel the need to pcik them apart, eh? |
| 03:28.41 | Adys | What about not putting the actual important hidden files in a folder visible to anyone |
| 03:29.02 | Adys | what about putting it in a big folder DONTDELETEMEYOUDUMBASSCASUAL, hidden. |
| 03:29.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Because that's not enough? |
| 03:29.13 | Adys | if the user sees it, he wont delete it |
| 03:29.19 | Adys | and if he does, well i wont be crying over it |
| 03:29.22 | Kirkburn|afk | You thikn too highly of Joe User |
| 03:29.32 | Adys | you think too highly of microsoft |
| 03:29.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Well I'm glad you don't design an OS |
| 03:29.37 | Kirkburn|afk | What? |
| 03:29.51 | Kirkburn|afk | What's this got to do with that? |
| 03:29.57 | Adys | And what tells you I never worked on some OS stuff wtf :P |
| 03:29.57 | Kirkburn|afk | This is basic consumer OS design |
| 03:30.39 | Adys | you really gotta stop thinking the OS is a consumer product |
| 03:30.47 | Adys | its a standard product adapted to the consumer |
| 03:30.58 | Kirkburn|afk | huh? |
| 03:31.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Either way, it means the same thing |
| 03:31.14 | Adys | And I feel really sorry about all the idiots deleting their non hidden tons of system dlls in vista |
| 03:31.21 | Kirkburn|afk | (I'm sure everything is loving reading this) |
| 03:31.35 | Adys | and the non idiots spending hours trying to find files that should not be hidden in the first place |
| 03:32.36 | Adys | ill take you a quick, very simple example |
| 03:33.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Out of the list you mentioned, I only can't explain "hidden files you cant see until you move them to trash and hidden files you can never see until you reformat". Which files are these? |
| 03:33.15 | Dotted | Kirkburn|afk im a thing :(? |
| 03:33.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, lol, woops :P |
| 03:33.34 | Adys | hidden files you cant see until you trash them |
| 03:33.36 | Adys | thumbs.db hi |
| 03:33.49 | Adys | as for the ones you cant see until you reformat, they are core of the OS design |
| 03:33.55 | Dotted | i see thumbs.db all over >_> |
| 03:34.16 | Adys | Kirkburn|afk: let me show you something |
| 03:34.31 | Kirkburn|afk | Dotted, same |
| 03:34.32 | Adys | There are two options you can tick in vista to show hidden files |
| 03:34.45 | montagg | I am going to kill this Captain Ballbreaker dragon rider dude. |
| 03:34.45 | Kirkburn|afk | They come under the "system files" tick |
| 03:34.55 | Adys | http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/adys.wh/Misc/photo#5167787356883274898 |
| 03:35.05 | Adys | this is what i found in my music folder |
| 03:35.21 | Adys | and yes i did have system files and hidden files ticked when i searched |
| 03:35.24 | Adys | this kind of shit doesnt come up |
| 03:36.17 | Adys | Now |
| 03:36.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Um, I see two wisps |
| 03:36.24 | Adys | eh? |
| 03:36.34 | Adys | http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/adys.wh/Misc/photo#5167787356883274898 |
| 03:36.37 | Adys | click it right :P |
| 03:36.59 | Kirkburn|afk | odd, it redirected |
| 03:37.05 | Adys | well anyway, those files specifically |
| 03:37.21 | Adys | why should they be hidden? (dont take in account desktop.ini) |
| 03:37.33 | Adys | and more specifically, why should they be totally hidden, until reformat? |
| 03:37.46 | Adys | What if I dont want dumb thumbnails to my music folder? |
| 03:38.02 | Adys | windows automatically extracts them from the mp3s |
| 03:38.06 | Adys | and caches them by hiding the# |
| 03:38.11 | Adys | s/#/m/ |
| 03:38.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Aren't they the contents of thumbs.db? |
| 03:38.57 | Adys | I'd doubt that, since I could see thumbs.db apart |
| 03:41.06 | Kirkburn|afk | That is very odd |
| 03:41.41 | Adys | in any case, and im getting too tired to argue, vista is full of illogical shit all around and im not coming back on that :) |
| 03:42.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Are you sure about all this? my net searches are mostly saying it's controlled by hidden files |
| 03:42.37 | Adys | 100% |
| 03:43.52 | Kirkburn|afk | They're under protected files |
| 03:43.55 | Kirkburn|afk | The second tick |
| 03:43.59 | Kirkburn|afk | I just tested it |
| 03:44.09 | Adys | sp1? |
| 03:44.16 | Kirkburn|afk | no |
| 03:44.40 | Adys | then i dont know :p Im really positive that those didnt exist before since i actually doublechecked |
| 03:44.47 | Kirkburn|afk | V odd |
| 03:45.08 | Dotted | oh man i freakin LOVE Moonlightning |
| 03:45.10 | Adys | in any case im done for now, Ill be back in two days, bb |
| 03:45.37 | Kirkburn|afk | see ya |
| 03:45.46 | Dotted | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088571/ |
| 03:49.18 | DuTempete | <insert dog smiley> Kirkburn|afk |
| 03:49.37 | Kirkburn|afk | <insert (K) smiley> DuTempete |
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| 04:06.20 | montagg | Completely off-topic. Anyone hear about the Ender's Game video game in development? |
| 04:16.09 | DuTempete | doesn't look like it, montagg :P |
| 04:16.27 | montagg | Booo. Great book. Should make a fantastic game. |
| 04:21.21 | DuTempete | hehe |
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| 04:30.43 | Keolah | but is it an RPG or a zero-G FPS or something :P |
| 04:32.17 | DuTempete | oooh zero-G |
| 04:36.02 | *** join/#wowwiki Nemico (n=Nemico@ti0012a340-0246.bb.online.no) |
| 04:37.21 | Sky2042_afk | holy shit |
| 04:39.34 | *** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=baggins@vnam2.uhh.hawaii.edu) |
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| 04:39.40 | Bagginsww | sky nope |
| 04:39.50 | Sky2042_afk | Bagginsww: ? |
| 04:39.51 | Bagginsww | I'd have to say the characteristics stuff is either from ingame or |
| 04:40.04 | Bagginsww | based on observance |
| 04:40.08 | Sky2042_afk | just the last para |
| 04:40.20 | Bagginsww | maybe from the website |
| 04:40.27 | Bagginsww | but its not rpg |
| 04:40.33 | Sky2042_afk | the other 2 are from website |
| 04:40.36 | Bagginsww | the limit to the rpg is in the first paragraph |
| 04:40.49 | Bagginsww | a one sentence reference |
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| 04:41.18 | Sky2042_afk | nah. it had more stuff from rpg before, im sure |
| 04:41.28 | Sky2042_afk | just no citations |
| 04:41.45 | Sky2042_afk | hard to type with only one hand |
| 04:41.50 | Sky2042_afk | xD |
| 04:41.56 | Bagginsww | nope |
| 04:42.08 | Bagginsww | the rpg only has a one sentence explanation for them |
| 04:42.11 | Bagginsww | in the Monster Guide |
| 04:42.14 | Sky2042_afk | o_O |
| 04:42.22 | Bagginsww | brann offhandly references in Lands of Mystery but doesn't go into any details |
| 04:42.37 | Bagginsww | so anything else is either ingame, website or made up |
| 04:44.11 | Bagginsww | last paraphgraph actually looks like an observance based on NPC names in game |
| 04:44.22 | Bagginsww | notice how they are all capitalized LOL |
| 04:44.25 | Bagginsww | rpg would never do that |
| 04:44.41 | Sky2042_afk | true |
| 04:46.32 | Bagginsww | In the deserts of Southern Kalimdor live a tribe of brown-skinned trolls with tough hides, able to withstand |
| 04:46.32 | Bagginsww | the driving sands of the desert winds. They call themselves Sandfury trolls, and much else about them is a |
| 04:46.32 | Bagginsww | mystery. Most scholars think them a small and anomolous off-shoot of the more common troll races. |
| 04:46.33 | Bagginsww | Sandfury trolls use the statistics of ice trolls, except instead of the cold subtype they have resistance to fire 5. |
| 04:46.36 | Bagginsww | They do not have low-light vision. |
| 04:46.38 | Bagginsww | tha'ts the MG line |
| 04:47.20 | Sky2042_afk | "In the deserts of Southern Kalimdor live a tribe of brown-skinned trolls with tough hides, able to withstand the driving sands of the desert winds. They call themselves Sandfury trolls, and much else about them is a mystery. Most scholars think them a small and anomolous off-shoot of the more common troll races." is the mg line? |
| 04:47.33 | Sky2042_afk | mk |
| 04:47.35 | Bagginsww | yes |
| 04:47.35 | Sky2042_afk | was edited out :) |
| 04:47.44 | Bagginsww | ya you kind of changed the context on some of it |
| 04:47.53 | Sky2042_afk | not really. |
| 04:47.54 | Bagginsww | we don't actually know what they evolved from :p |
| 04:48.09 | Bagginsww | could have been forest trolls :p |
| 04:48.18 | Bagginsww | or ice trolls :p |
| 04:48.26 | Sky2042_afk | i think wow's page said jungle trolls... |
| 04:48.29 | Bagginsww | I don't think any source is specific |
| 04:48.32 | Sky2042_afk | -_- |
| 04:48.33 | Bagginsww | well if it does |
| 04:48.35 | Bagginsww | then fine |
| 04:48.40 | Bagginsww | but you best check on that ;) |
| 04:48.56 | Bagginsww | I doubt it would be off the dark trolls though, as they were said to be an offshoot themsleves |
| 04:49.17 | Sky2042_afk | oh, that line itself? i just gave examples. |
| 04:49.58 | Bagginsww | your examples are the same race :p |
| 04:50.03 | Bagginsww | island and jungle trolls? |
| 04:50.04 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 04:50.21 | Bagginsww | that implies they came from that particular race :p |
| 04:50.35 | Sky2042_afk | bah |
| 04:50.50 | Sky2042_afk | just remove the island trolls reference then. |
| 04:51.17 | Bagginsww | to be fair it could be edited back to what it said before, the vague version and not hurt copyright issues |
| 04:51.32 | Sky2042_afk | eh? |
| 04:51.32 | Bagginsww | copyright allows for the use of a sentence or two |
| 04:51.41 | Sky2042_afk | i used a sentence or two -_- |
| 04:51.51 | Bagginsww | actually you changed the context |
| 04:51.54 | Sky2042_afk | the other one had the blizzard encyc /and/ the rpg references nicely plagiarized |
| 04:52.03 | Sky2042_afk | which is alright, so long as the citation is there at the end. |
| 04:52.04 | Bagginsww | no you can legally quote something |
| 04:52.18 | Sky2042_afk | but they weren't quotes |
| 04:52.20 | Sky2042_afk | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:52.22 | Sky2042_afk | -_- |
| 04:52.35 | Bagginsww | it was blockquoted at one time :p |
| 04:52.41 | Sky2042_afk | well, it wasn't just now |
| 04:52.44 | Sky2042_afk | and besides |
| 04:53.02 | Sky2042_afk | you yourself have said if the content is > 50% other sources' words... |
| 04:53.09 | Bagginsww | anycase, if you change context too much, you might as well not even cite it... false citations are worse than citing a quote |
| 04:53.10 | Sky2042_afk | well, now it's not. |
| 04:53.47 | Bagginsww | content > than 10% and taking up a page of information |
| 04:53.50 | Bagginsww | actually |
| 04:53.53 | Bagginsww | according to that one guy |
| 04:53.57 | Sky2042_afk | which it still has content -_- |
| 04:54.10 | Bagginsww | no its ok to use a sentence if its the limit of the information. |
| 04:54.26 | Bagginsww | whereas using a multi paraph essay on the other hand |
| 04:54.34 | Bagginsww | *paragraph |
| 04:55.20 | Kirkburn|afk | :O |
| 04:55.58 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Policy/Copyright#Fair_use |
| 04:56.10 | Bagginsww | Quotes must be offered in support of a claim. Do not reproduce Blizzard's text to fill in the substantive content of an article. The only exception to this is if the only information for a subject is limited to a sentence or small paragraph. Quoting or paraphrasing a small bit of information is ok, as long as it includes quotation marks or the <blockquote> element, as well as the ref or {{cite}}. |
| 04:56.41 | Sky2042_afk | Bagginsww: It had two paragraphs plagiarized. One from encyc, one from RPG. That is /not/ ok. |
| 04:57.01 | Sky2042_afk | also "Do not reproduce Blizzard's text to fill in the substantive content of an article." |
| 04:57.25 | Bagginsww | if you ask kirkburn official site stuff is free reign :p |
| 04:57.35 | Bagginsww | or was that PCJ :p |
| 04:57.43 | pcj | what |
| 04:57.52 | Sky2042_afk | Kirkburn|afk: you need to be shot. |
| 04:57.55 | Bagginsww | kirkburn supports full copy paste of game material only |
| 04:57.57 | pcj | wall of text= not reading while raiding |
| 04:58.18 | Bagginsww | its back to a copyright and fair use arguement |
| 04:58.20 | Bagginsww | pcj |
| 04:58.29 | Kirkburn|afk | wha? |
| 04:58.33 | pcj | oh copying anything from blizzard content is dumb |
| 04:58.45 | Bagginsww | I was bringing up that either you or kirkburn mentioned that official site stuff is probably open |
| 04:58.46 | pcj | but i think blizzard did release certain things to display etc |
| 04:59.06 | Kirkburn|afk | I said game material because that obviously does not cause people not to play the game |
| 04:59.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Website material will actually have an effect on the website |
| 04:59.27 | Bagginsww | but the main point sky is if you want to reword a sentence fine but try not to add anything to it if it didn't say anything of that nature before ;p |
| 04:59.46 | Bagginsww | don't put words in sentence mouth :p |
| 04:59.49 | Bagginsww | so to speak |
| 05:00.02 | Sky2042_afk | Bagginsww: if you're writing a paper, you use quotes in support of a position, right? |
| 05:00.13 | Bagginsww | with "" |
| 05:00.18 | Bagginsww | with quotes |
| 05:00.23 | Kirkburn|afk | (I haven't been following the conversation, Ad.ys exhausted me too much) |
| 05:00.36 | Bagginsww | oh well it might have been adys I was talking too ;) |
| 05:00.36 | Sky2042_afk | Bagginsww: that's what I did. I expanded on what the original quote said. |
| 05:00.42 | Bagginsww | using your screenname :p |
| 05:00.44 | Bagginsww | it was confusing |
| 05:00.51 | Bagginsww | erm not adys |
| 05:00.51 | Bagginsww | sorry |
| 05:00.53 | pcj | official site stuff is open |
| 05:00.55 | Bagginsww | I mean "DuTempete |
| 05:01.02 | pcj | blizzard explicitly allowed that |
| 05:01.10 | Kirkburn|afk | pcj, they did? Cool |
| 05:01.14 | Bagginsww | oh? |
| 05:01.23 | pcj | err let me find it |
| 05:01.23 | Sky2042 | that's what the legal terms on that one page say |
| 05:01.27 | DuTempete | what huh? |
| 05:01.33 | Kirkburn|afk | DuTempete, don't worry :) |
| 05:01.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Bagginsww, appears to be randomly pinging people :P |
| 05:01.53 | Bagginsww | huh how? |
| 05:01.55 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 05:02.09 | DuTempete | okies :P |
| 05:02.21 | Bagginsww | I don't have my system set to ping me anytime my name is mentioned |
| 05:02.28 | Kirkburn|afk | :( |
| 05:02.32 | Kirkburn|afk | :D |
| 05:02.40 | Bagginsww | dutempete is part dog or part cat? |
| 05:03.12 | Bagginsww | sloppy lick, or preening lick? |
| 05:03.13 | DuTempete | ... |
| 05:03.25 | Bagginsww | sorry ;) |
| 05:03.40 | Sky2042 | Bagginsww: "Eventually the trolls adapted to their harsh new environment, and today they bear only a rough resemblance to the jungle trolls from whom they are descended." |
| 05:03.46 | Sky2042 | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/troll/sandtribes.html |
| 05:03.47 | Sky2042 | OWNED |
| 05:04.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Bagginsww, girlfriend lick. |
| 05:04.24 | Bagginsww | ok the question is why the later MG went the route of possibly tying them to Zandalari tribe or something else :p |
| 05:04.49 | Sky2042 | did they connect them to zandalar?... the name was an example.. sigh |
| 05:04.51 | Bagginsww | careful not to get rabies ;) |
| 05:05.13 | Bagginsww | well its said later that all races originated from ZandalarLOL |
| 05:05.19 | Bagginsww | all troll races I mean |
| 05:05.33 | Sky2042 | o_o |
| 05:05.37 | Bagginsww | sorry, typo, babies, babies |
| 05:05.46 | DuTempete | ... |
| 05:06.19 | Bagginsww | ok enough of that, DuTempete is not in a humor mood... Don't eat me |
| 05:06.55 | Kirkburn|afk | hehehe |
| 05:07.07 | Kirkburn|afk | She's raiding :) |
| 05:07.24 | pcj | bagginsww: http://www.blizzard.com/legalfaq.shtml |
| 05:07.46 | pcj | "Blizzard Entertainment hereby grants you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable and non- assignable license to use and display, for home, noncommercial and personal use only, one copy of any material and/or software that you may download from this site" |
| 05:08.38 | Bagginsww | well certainly looks like you can display tet |
| 05:09.10 | Bagginsww | although we are transferring it to others :p |
| 05:09.45 | pcj | text? |
| 05:09.46 | Bagginsww | You also agree that you will not alter, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer or otherwise modify the Downloaded Content. |
| 05:09.49 | Bagginsww | cough LOL |
| 05:09.59 | pcj | Yeah, if we do copy it, we should quote it or something |
| 05:10.01 | Sky2042 | except it's not downloaded? |
| 05:10.03 | Sky2042 | -_- |
| 05:10.11 | pcj | You download stuff into your cache nub |
| 05:10.14 | Sky2042 | true. |
| 05:10.17 | Bagginsww | it says copy, download etc |
| 05:10.18 | Sky2042 | not the same as copypasting |
| 05:10.24 | Bagginsww | blockquotes |
| 05:10.24 | Bagginsww | always |
| 05:10.32 | Bagginsww | if its not to be altered |
| 05:11.19 | Bagginsww | we can only do that if we don't have world of porncraft pictgure |
| 05:12.14 | pcj | damn |
| 05:12.19 | pcj | screw that then |
| 05:12.35 | Sky2042 | http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:User_Signatures is a copy paste of us! :[ |
| 05:12.44 | Kirkburn|afk | yes, we're awesome |
| 05:12.55 | Sky2042 | well, I knew that |
| 05:13.00 | Dotted | http://www.steamgames.com/v/img/whatsnew/StillAlive.pdf |
| 05:13.11 | [NewsBot] | BlizzPlanet: Starcraft II - February Topic of the Month - Map Making - http://www.blizzplanet.com/?act=News&id=2117 |
| 05:13.30 | Bagginsww | funny thing about law though pcj |
| 05:13.48 | Bagginsww | is I could use that the loopholes in that text to support our copying of stuff or deny it |
| 05:13.58 | Sky2042 | well, that's surprising. |
| 05:14.04 | Sky2042 | there's only 291 staves in game |
| 05:14.04 | Bagginsww | dpending on how you read into it heh heh |
| 05:14.40 | Bagginsww | sandwich has yet to tell me where a user has porn on their user page |
| 05:15.19 | pcj | fsm knows you've looked |
| 05:15.26 | Bagginsww | he mentioned to me one or two people have warcraft porn on their user pages, but refuse to give me the links |
| 05:15.38 | Bagginsww | well I was going to delete them |
| 05:15.45 | pcj | suuure |
| 05:16.00 | Bagginsww | because of that legalfaq thing |
| 05:17.01 | Bagginsww | its ok to upload official pornographic material however, ;) |
| 05:17.44 | Kirkburn|afk | As long as it's Warcraft related, of course |
| 05:18.17 | Kirkburn|afk | (and nice :P ) |
| 05:26.07 | Dotted | !rs |
| 05:26.08 | [NewsBot] | EU: 237 realms online. 0 realms offline. |
| 05:27.44 | Dotted | we can upload porn? |
| 05:28.37 | Sky2042 | only official porn |
| 05:28.47 | Sky2042 | Like Loyalty Level 6 |
| 05:28.50 | Sky2042 | =] |
| 05:28.58 | Vesitin | But no hunter-on-pet stuff. |
| 05:29.07 | Sky2042 | Vesitin: ... |
| 05:29.19 | Vesitin | .... |
| 05:29.30 | Sky2042 | ..... |
| 05:29.37 | Dotted | why no hunter-on-pet stuff? |
| 05:29.49 | Vesitin | that was a weak attempt at a joke. |
| 05:30.06 | Dotted | ah ofc its illegal in the US :( |
| 05:30.19 | Dotted | perfectly fine in denmark though |
| 05:30.33 | Vesitin | Well, everything is perfectly fine in denmark. |
| 05:30.45 | Sky2042 | Sweden > Denmark. |
| 05:30.47 | [NewsBot] | pirate bay isnt |
| 05:30.53 | Sky2042 | Sweden's got the chix. |
| 05:30.53 | Vesitin | An excellent point. |
| 05:30.55 | [NewsBot] | i agree Sky2042 |
| 05:31.05 | [NewsBot] | about the first part |
| 05:31.05 | Sky2042 | Oh good. Then move to Sweden! |
| 05:31.06 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 05:31.18 | Bagginsww | does dragon on wench count as pet on hunter? |
| 05:31.20 | [NewsBot] | nah dont like the langauge |
| 05:31.30 | Sky2042 | Why? |
| 05:32.59 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Reddragon.JPG |
| 05:33.14 | Sky2042 | not you Bagginsww, Dotted. |
| 05:33.24 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 05:33.28 | [NewsBot] | its shit |
| 05:33.37 | Sky2042 | Well, that's helpful. Why's it shit? |
| 05:34.05 | Dotted | well it hard |
| 05:34.16 | Dotted | not like easymode english |
| 05:34.41 | Sky2042 | um... swedish is easier than english to learn. trust me.. |
| 05:34.44 | Sky2042 | o_o |
| 05:35.02 | Sky2042 | especially if you're almost already speaking your native language, eh? |
| 05:35.37 | [NewsBot] | grrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 05:39.35 | Dotted | !rs |
| 05:39.36 | [NewsBot] | EU: 237 realms online. 0 realms offline. |
| 05:42.43 | Bagginsww | Swenglish? |
| 05:48.07 | Bagginsww | hmm if you strictly read the MG description it would imply that sandfury originated from all the common races |
| 05:48.14 | Bagginsww | common troll races |
| 05:48.35 | Sky2042 | which, is only if you're trying to prove a point which you shouldn't be trying to prove. |
| 05:49.14 | Bagginsww | the fact that a constradiction in descriptions may exist? |
| 05:49.17 | Bagginsww | not the first time |
| 05:49.37 | Bagginsww | or the fact that you took things out of context? |
| 05:50.36 | Sky2042 | the fact that you added a quote which was in direct contradiction to mine, and then proceeded to say that mine was completely incorrectly. |
| 05:50.38 | Sky2042 | incorrect* |
| 05:50.39 | Kirkburn|afk | MG came before the website, no? |
| 05:51.08 | Bagginsww | after |
| 05:51.11 | Bagginsww | much after |
| 05:51.18 | Bagginsww | about a year |
| 05:51.49 | Bagginsww | if your strictly speaking of that article |
| 06:03.49 | *** join/#wowwiki Tinyboom (n=nahh@143.84-49-90.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:12.34 | Bagginsww | sky the only issue I had was that you took original quote out of context |
| 06:12.44 | Bagginsww | making say something it wasn't actually saying |
| 06:12.56 | Bagginsww | if there was a contradiction with another source I didn't know about it |
| 06:13.41 | Bagginsww | but you should know of our policy if that is the case... |
| 06:13.43 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Policy/Writing/Lore#Conflicts |
| 06:13.48 | Bagginsww | discuss both |
| 06:14.04 | Bagginsww | mention the difference |
| 06:15.26 | Sky2042 | I did. |
| 06:15.50 | Bagginsww | To be honst I don't know how I added a quote that was i direct contradiction to yours, when those quotes I think was added months ago |
| 06:16.05 | Bagginsww | all you did was reword it, but not accurately |
| 06:16.21 | Bagginsww | I'd have to check the edit history... |
| 06:16.39 | Bagginsww | but when I added the quote, I don't remember intentionally trying to contradict anything you might have posted... |
| 06:16.51 | Bagginsww | didn't even know you posted anything there, if you did... |
| 06:18.39 | Bagginsww | nope don't actually see any posts from you,from before I added the MG comment |
| 06:19.05 | Bagginsww | so guess it was you who added something that was in direct contradiction ;) |
| 06:19.26 | Bagginsww | *speaking of what you added before you tracked down the comment on the official site |
| 06:19.37 | Bagginsww | island and jungle |
| 06:20.57 | Bagginsww | anycase, no reason to discuss it further, at least its portraying the context of both sources now, and pointing out there may be a difference |
| 06:23.04 | Bagginsww | one last thing, the only thing I added sky after you made your changes, was citation and paraphrase of the info pointing out that MG said something abit different. If I had left it how you left it, it would have been only stating one side of theinformation the website at the expense of the RPG> |
| 06:23.41 | Bagginsww | as in you worded it as, "they directly decended from jungle trolls" |
| 06:23.58 | Sky2042 | Bagginsww: yes, and you changed the part that said "they /are/" to "they may be". I changed it back; the website unequivicolly says that they are descended from the jungle trolls. |
| 06:24.05 | Bagginsww | because its neutral |
| 06:24.17 | Bagginsww | if there is a conflict |
| 06:24.23 | Bagginsww | you say it may be this or it may be that |
| 06:24.56 | Bagginsww | the may be is speaking of the fact that there are two conflicting accounts |
| 06:25.00 | Bagginsww | and they can't both be right |
| 06:25.11 | Sky2042 | easier to say that they are something with concrete evidence and then add that one of the sources says something else. |
| 06:25.41 | Bagginsww | "concrete evidence" or should I say circumstantial |
| 06:26.05 | Bagginsww | the official site is written from an in-univsre perspective |
| 06:26.12 | Sky2042 | so is the rpg? |
| 06:26.14 | Bagginsww | so its one other's opinon verses another |
| 06:26.15 | Sky2042 | -_- |
| 06:26.23 | Bagginsww | not that particular book |
| 06:26.34 | Bagginsww | it may or may not be, but its not specified |
| 06:26.40 | Sky2042 | um, the quote which would contend against the site's quote is definitely in-universe |
| 06:26.41 | Bagginsww | its not a brann book |
| 06:26.54 | Sky2042 | i would even say that the encyc is less inuniverse than that quote. |
| 06:27.20 | Bagginsww | how so is it in universe? |
| 06:27.35 | Bagginsww | it speaks of scholars but from a third person omnscient perspecitve |
| 06:27.53 | Bagginsww | it doesn't state that it is a scholar |
| 06:28.08 | Bagginsww | its not like brann saying, "I did this etc, and I believe this" |
| 06:28.19 | Bagginsww | They are both similar in this respect I suppose |
| 06:28.21 | Sky2042 | yes. that is necessarily in-universe writing to say "most scholars". Most scholars don't in the real world don't give a rip. |
| 06:28.30 | Bagginsww | nope |
| 06:28.39 | Bagginsww | when you speaking of a subject |
| 06:28.48 | Bagginsww | from an omnsicnet point of view |
| 06:28.53 | Bagginsww | you can still discuss what others think |
| 06:29.00 | Bagginsww | from that universe |
| 06:29.09 | Bagginsww | novels do it all the time |
| 06:29.19 | Bagginsww | most novels are generally written from TPOV |
| 06:30.05 | Bagginsww | a third person omniscient style may or may not be in-univsre |
| 06:30.50 | Bagginsww | but one can't say that it is 100% in-universe without specific evidence |
| 06:31.15 | Bagginsww | take modern historians all discussing events that happened in the past on earth |
| 06:31.27 | Bagginsww | one historian may choose to use TPOV |
| 06:31.57 | Bagginsww | another may choose to write it from a first person perspective |
| 06:32.21 | Bagginsww | and in some cases you get the more dramatized second person style |
| 06:32.33 | Bagginsww | granted some of these styles tend to be more novel like than others |
| 06:32.46 | Bagginsww | despite the fact they may be discussing real events that happened in our universe. |
| 06:33.14 | Sky2042 | woohoo. just broke 2k deletions. |
| 06:33.21 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 06:33.48 | Sky2042 | I think that might be more than the rest of the administrators. which is scary. |
| 06:34.00 | Bagginsww | anycase a first person perspective style is definitley easy to say is in-universe |
| 06:34.28 | Sky2042 | never mind... |
| 06:34.32 | Sky2042 | gryph > me |
| 06:34.33 | Bagginsww | a third person may be in-universe historian just choosing to use the third person style, or it might be our world authors fillinging in "lore" |
| 06:35.00 | Sky2042 | he's got 5k and a bit. |
| 06:35.07 | Bagginsww | wow |
| 06:35.08 | Sky2042 | 3.5k and a bit* |
| 06:36.28 | Sky2042 | kirks in the 4k + range |
| 06:44.53 | Sky2042 | Bagginsww: when you were in school, you didn't do so hot on your grammar SAT, did you? |
| 06:44.57 | Sky2042 | xD |
| 06:45.14 | Bagginsww | I do well on multiple choice, :) |
| 06:45.26 | Bagginsww | my SATs were very high |
| 06:45.27 | Sky2042 | no way you did. your comma usage is horrendous. |
| 06:45.33 | Sky2042 | xD |
| 06:45.46 | Bagginsww | the difference is I don't have to write, on an multiple choice |
| 06:46.04 | *** join/#wowwiki StKittyHawk (n=StKittyH@d75-156-218-7.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 06:46.27 | Bagginsww | ;) |
| 06:46.27 | Bagginsww | I just have to read |
| 06:46.28 | Bagginsww | and my reading is stronger |
| 06:46.39 | Bagginsww | If I care I'm better at correcting others than seeing my own mistakes |
| 06:46.54 | Bagginsww | unless I flat out take the time to read back through whatever I typed |
| 06:46.59 | Sky2042 | ~seen sannse |
| 06:47.27 | infobot | sannse <n=me@wikia/pdpc.active.sannse> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 13d 10h 15m 46s ago, saying: 'Sky2042: but there's this beautiful and majestic one too! scary...'. |
| 06:47.27 | Bagginsww | thus the reason for multiple drafts |
| 06:47.42 | Sky2042 | jesus. that can't be right, can it? |
| 06:48.57 | *** join/#wowwiki kadrahil (n=kad@c-69-136-59-10.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 06:49.42 | Sky2042 | [[WW:GS]] |
| 06:49.44 | [NewsBot] | Sky2042 meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/WW:GS |
| 06:49.58 | Sky2042 | pcj: ww:gs is fixed. |
| 06:50.08 | pcj | yeap |
| 06:50.29 | Bagginsww | I tend to catch mistakes on papers I write for school purposes, as I put more time into them. My grades are pretty good. |
| 06:51.50 | Bagginsww | casual typing? eh I don't care too much |
| 06:52.10 | Bagginsww | my mind works faster than my fingers really... |
| 06:52.33 | Sky2042 | aw crud |
| 06:53.58 | Bagginsww | and I get more uh how do you put it? Eh, clumsy. |
| 06:59.40 | Bagginsww | well gnigh |
| 07:40.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Someone should tell Sky I have 8450+ deletions |
| 07:40.54 | Kirkburn|afk | 8488, in fact |
| 07:54.17 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno) |
| 07:54.17 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 07:58.28 | [NewsBot] | World of Raids: Eredar Twins Preview, Brutallus v3 & Felmyst v2 down - http://boards.worldofraids.com/topic-11015-1.html |
| 08:02.05 | Kirkburn|afk | Sky2042, lol |
| 08:02.14 | Sky2042 | roar. |
| 08:04.03 | Sky2042 | you betta believe! |
| 08:04.03 | Kirkburn|afk | August is when I started btw |
| 08:04.08 | Sky2042 | i linked that. |
| 08:04.11 | Sky2042 | :P |
| 08:04.36 | Sky2042 | i linked your sysoped date, and mine. august 06 - feb 08 is 18 months. |
| 08:05.13 | Sky2042 | dec 07* is 16 months* |
| 08:07.09 | Kirkburn|afk | :P |
| 08:08.06 | Sky2042 | don't forget to actually add the two to the patrollers group o_o |
| 08:08.28 | Sky2042 | weeee |
| 08:08.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Armagon o_O |
| 08:09.06 | Sky2042 | yeah. he's a rename by fandyllic... |
| 08:09.16 | Kirkburn|afk | Someone else changed their didn't they? |
| 08:09.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Ah yeah Apollo |
| 08:09.36 | Sky2042 | aka winkiller |
| 08:10.22 | Sky2042 | well, Flotsam on the wiki... |
| 08:10.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Amberrock isn't a patroller? |
| 08:10.48 | Sky2042 | also a rename |
| 08:10.51 | Sky2042 | apollo |
| 08:11.21 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Your Christmas gift could be hacking your WoW account. - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/your-christmas-gift-could-be-hacking-your-wow-account/ |
| 08:14.19 | Kirkburn|afk | Sky2042, you're not really concentrating on what I'm saying are you :P |
| 08:14.47 | Sky2042 | no... not realy. am I supposed to be? |
| 08:14.58 | Sky2042 | and why would i be? |
| 08:15.27 | Sky2042 | i'm thirsty... |
| 08:15.35 | Sky2042 | on what exactly, also? |
| 08:16.03 | Sky2042 | hum... i should go do the chap 3 test :/ |
| 08:16.13 | Sky2042 | finally be done with the god forsaken thing. |
| 08:19.29 | Sky2042 | hmm... |
| 08:19.36 | Sky2042 | aw, why not. |
| 08:20.09 | Sky2042 | o_o |
| 08:20.26 | Sky2042 | [[Special:Mypage/Watchlist]] resulted in my IP. wtf? |
| 08:20.27 | [NewsBot] | Sky2042 meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Mypage/Watchlist |
| 08:22.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Hm, do you think it might make sense to make the patrollers list the same as the watchdogs? |
| 08:22.23 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Listusers/patrollers |
| 08:22.35 | Kirkburn|afk | Watchdogs is a subset of patrollers now >_< |
| 08:23.01 | Sky2042 | oh jesus, brain shock for Kirkburn|afk! |
| 08:23.03 | Sky2042 | :P |
| 08:23.17 | Sky2042 | i've seen the parallelism for months |
| 08:23.47 | Sky2042 | oh no you didn't. |
| 08:23.51 | Sky2042 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Spot.jpg |
| 08:25.45 | Kirkburn|afk | oh yes I did |
| 08:31.26 | Kirkburn|afk | Sky2042, btw, we should be abel to replace the preloa stuff soon :) |
| 08:31.32 | Kirkburn|afk | cripes, spelling |
| 08:31.36 | Sky2042 | with? |
| 08:31.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Something rather better :P |
| 08:32.17 | Sky2042 | explain, boy. |
| 08:32.22 | Kirkburn|afk | even if it's not on our wiki next week, it should be on some others for you to look at |
| 08:32.42 | Kirkburn|afk | (another thing that needs the 1.12 upgrade) |
| 08:32.47 | Sky2042 | ... |
| 08:32.53 | Sky2042 | you want me to kick you, right? |
| 08:35.35 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 08:36.05 | Kirkburn|afk | It frustrates me as much as you, but I guess I at least get to see this stuff :P |
| 08:36.36 | *** kick/#wowwiki [Kirkburn|afk!n=Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno] by Sky2042 (you asked for it.) |
| 08:37.28 | *** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:37.28 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ |
| 08:38.22 | Sky2042 | OOOOOO insult added to injury! |
| 08:38.35 | Sky2042 | and Kirkburn, how come you don't have a wikia cloak or something? |
| 08:38.41 | Kirkburn | Haven't asked |
| 08:38.51 | Sky2042 | ah |
| 08:44.49 | Kirkburn | Doesn't help that one techie is on holiday and the other just became a father :P |
| 08:45.23 | Sky2042 | well, crap. tell wikia they need to hire more |
| 08:45.25 | Sky2042 | xD |
| 08:46.16 | Sky2042 | wait, why is one on holiday? |
| 08:46.26 | *** join/#wowwiki kadrahil (n=kad@c-69-136-59-10.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 08:46.37 | Sky2042 | just, out for MLK? or just taking a few of his paid-days off? |
| 08:46.45 | Kirkburn | MLK? |
| 08:47.19 | Sky2042 | martin luther king jr. day, which we celebrate on monday. |
| 08:47.32 | Kirkburn | Oh, the tech team is baed in Poland |
| 08:47.36 | Sky2042 | Oh. |
| 08:47.50 | Sky2042 | what's going on in Poland right now? o_o |
| 08:48.01 | Fisker- | you forgot about poland |
| 08:50.33 | Kirkburn | nothing? Can't a guy take a holiday without interrogation? |
| 08:51.07 | Sky2042 | um.... |
| 08:51.09 | Sky2042 | uh... |
| 08:53.43 | Fisker- | definitely not Kirkburn |
| 08:53.52 | Fisker- | try going to the US |
| 08:54.34 | Sky2042 | lol |
| 08:55.10 | Sky2042 | especially if you're from any of the following countries: Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Syria, and the rest of the Middle East. Oh, and throw in China and Korea for good sport. |
| 08:55.12 | Sky2042 | =] |
| 08:55.22 | Fisker- | nah |
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| 09:06.35 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus (n=webmaste@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 09:12.57 | Kirkburn | It truly saddens me to see dead wikis :( |
| 09:14.31 | Sky2042 | Kirkburn: aye. but they're probably dead because they appeared at the wrong time in the wrong place. |
| 09:14.43 | Kirkburn | Actually for some of these I disagree |
| 09:14.55 | Kirkburn | I reckon a hell of a lot of it comes down to the Main Page |
| 09:15.10 | Kirkburn | Make a crap one, and that's half your audience gone immediately |
| 09:15.36 | Kirkburn | No links to articles? = No content. |
| 09:15.43 | Kirkburn | (whether or not it's true) |
| 09:16.53 | Sky2042 | !jobqueue |
| 09:16.55 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 33 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 33secs. |
| 09:18.14 | Kirkburn | Wow, even after changing all those stubs? |
| 09:18.20 | Kirkburn | I am impressed with our server :) |
| 09:19.13 | Sky2042 | i didn't fix all of them. |
| 09:23.10 | Kirkburn | What was the effect anyway? |
| 09:24.08 | Sky2042 | ? |
| 09:24.11 | Sky2042 | Oh. |
| 09:24.51 | Sky2042 | I added an extra bracket. the #if was calling {{doc}} rather than {{{doc}}} |
| 09:25.38 | Kirkburn | Did that make any big difference? |
| 09:26.30 | Sky2042 | as it was just about breaking the design of the edit, yes. |
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| 13:06.59 | |Pixel| | j'crois que sur un channel anglais, cette URL est relativement inutile :) |
| 13:07.35 | Adys | y'a des google ads pour sarko marie |
| 13:07.36 | Adys | eh be |
| 13:09.16 | |Pixel| | mdr |
| 13:09.29 | |Pixel| | j'avais pas fait gaffe :) |
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| 13:17.08 | Fisker- | french :( |
| 13:26.40 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Breakfast Topic: Your WoW personality - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/breakfast-topic-your-wow-personality/ |
| 13:29.35 | Kirkburn | Fisker-, better than that rubbish you speak :) |
| 13:42.01 | Gourra | Kirkburn: what's Fisker- speaking? |
| 13:42.55 | Kirkburn | Gobbledegook |
| 13:43.06 | Gourra | Interesting. |
| 13:43.45 | pcj | je m'en fous |
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| 13:54.37 | [NewsBot] | MMO Champion: Twin Eredars kill on PTRs, armor screenshots update - http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=4409.0 |
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| 13:57.13 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kaso] by ChanServ |
| 13:58.03 | Adys | Hey, in english, it's "Will you let me travel with you there?" or "will you let me travel there with you?" |
| 14:03.40 | Gourra | "Will you let me travel there with you?" |
| 14:03.52 | Adys | aight |
| 14:06.40 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Bank declines Blizzard charges - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/bank-declines-blizzard-charges/ |
| 14:08.01 | *** join/#wowwiki Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:08.01 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kalroth] by ChanServ |
| 14:08.06 | Adys | Kalroth! |
| 14:08.30 | Kalroth | hay ther |
| 14:10.08 | Gourra | hai2u |
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| 14:35.06 | [NewsBot] | BlizzPlanet: PTR 2.4 - Brutallus Hotfix and Kill Video - http://www.blizzplanet.com/?act=News&id=2119 |
| 14:35.12 | [NewsBot] | BlizzPlanet: Patch 2.4 PTR - The Phoenix Pet & Dragon Kite Videos - http://www.blizzplanet.com/?act=News&id=2118 |
| 14:39.31 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Sunday Morning Funnies: Swindle my kindle - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/sunday-morning-funnies-swindle-my-kindle/ |
| 14:55.56 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@cpc1-brmb4-0-0-cust549.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:03.31 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Around Azeroth: The Karazhan gryphon roost - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/around-azeroth-the-karazhan-gryphon-roost/ |
| 15:11.31 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: The Eredar Twins deadru in PTR - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/the-eredar-twins-dies-in-ptr/ |
| 15:12.03 | Gourra | slow insider |
| 15:25.14 | Gourra | is it just me or is Google slow? |
| 15:28.51 | PhotoJim | the net in general seems slow today |
| 15:28.54 | PhotoJim | I assumed it was my ISP |
| 15:29.03 | PhotoJim | must be some spam attack or something |
| 15:30.38 | Gourra | hackers on steroids! |
| 15:31.00 | Gourra | WoW's been a bit laggy today, ms was fine though (around 100) |
| 15:32.55 | PhotoJim | I noticed it was a bit laggy last night, too |
| 15:32.58 | PhotoJim | tolerable, but annoying |
| 15:41.01 | Gourra | everything's fine except google |
| 15:42.26 | PhotoJim | I wonder what's up with that. |
| 15:42.38 | *** join/#wowwiki kadrahil (n=kad@c-69-136-59-10.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 15:43.31 | Gourra | is google working for you? |
| 15:43.36 | Gourra | bye Adys |
| 15:43.41 | PhotoJim | let me try. |
| 15:43.49 | PhotoJim | Yup, seems fine. |
| 15:43.50 | PhotoJim | but I use google.ca |
| 15:43.53 | PhotoJim | try it and see. |
| 15:44.12 | Gourra | that's odd, it doesn't work for me.. |
| 15:44.13 | PhotoJim | google.com is slightly slower but still fine |
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| 16:01.31 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: What is a “Murder Simulator,” Exactly? - http://gamepolitics.com/2008/02/17/what-is-a-murder-simulator-exactly/ |
| 16:09.13 | *** join/#wowwiki Schnoobby (n=MirandaM@agsb-4db02a6d.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:09.23 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: I spent how much on my alt? - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/i-spent-how-much-on-my-alt/ |
| 16:34.02 | *** join/#wowwiki Srosh (n=Srosh@c178215.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 17:06.06 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: WoW Moviewatch: Voyage - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/wow-moviewatch-voyage/ |
| 17:11.00 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@cpc1-brmb4-0-0-cust549.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:14.20 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: The Eredar Twins dead in PTR - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/the-eredar-twins-dead-in-ptr/ |
| 17:14.48 | Gourra | SLOW INSIDER |
| 17:21.31 | *** join/#wowwiki [Liquidor] (n=denras19@fw-tk-1.ruc.dk) |
| 17:22.42 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: NIU Shooting: Why Are Games Even Under Discussion? - http://gamepolitics.com/2008/02/17/niu-shooting-why-are-games-even-under-discussion/ |
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| 18:03.26 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Two Bosses Enter: Illidan Stormrage vs The Twin Emperors - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/two-bosses-enter-illidan-stormrage-vs-the-twin-emperors/ |
| 18:15.16 | Fisker- | weee |
| 18:15.20 | Fisker- | more boss shit |
| 18:21.22 | Olison | that site totally rocks |
| 18:25.34 | *** part/#wowwiki MrUseful (i=fnbot@armory.bot.nu) |
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| 18:46.37 | Dotted | !chanstats |
| 18:46.37 | Dotted | !chanstats |
| 18:46.45 | Dotted | err |
| 18:46.49 | Dotted | !wwstats |
| 18:46.50 | [NewsBot] | Channels stats: http://www.bxd.dk/irc/freenode/wowwiki.html |
| 18:46.52 | Olison | more bots? |
| 18:46.54 | Dotted | hmm |
| 18:46.57 | Dotted | no |
| 18:47.01 | *** join/#wowwiki MrUseful (i=fnbot@armory.bot.nu) |
| 18:47.05 | Olison | .wowtools start |
| 18:47.07 | MrUseful | Wowtools active for channel #wowwiki (ChanID 415). Information for channelops and users is available under http://fireglow.de/wowbot.html |
| 18:47.08 | Olison | one more :< |
| 18:47.23 | Dotted | !rs |
| 18:47.29 | Dotted | TF |
| 18:47.55 | [NewsBot] | EU: All 237 realms online |
| 18:48.42 | Dotted | !rs eu |
| 18:48.44 | [NewsBot] | Dotted: Realm doesnt exist. |
| 18:48.47 | Dotted | lawl |
| 18:53.31 | Dotted | !rs Trollbane |
| 18:54.13 | [NewsBot] | Dotted: Trollbane - Realm Up. |
| 18:55.02 | *** join/#wowwiki Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@64.193.93.197) |
| 18:56.25 | Fisker- | !rs yourmother :D |
| 18:56.27 | [NewsBot] | Fisker-: Realm doesnt exist. |
| 18:56.31 | Fisker- | no u |
| 19:07.53 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Don't underestimate the Isle of Quel'Danas - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/dont-underestimate-the-isle-of-queldanas/ |
| 19:11.37 | *** join/#wowwiki Keolah (n=zenkeola@71.237.221.95) |
| 19:14.38 | winkiller | 3 chars saved to kara this week. I smell too many alts |
| 19:15.11 | Gourra | 0 chars saved to kara this week. I smell Raiding Sickness |
| 19:16.17 | Gourra | I would go to kara and drag my druid's ass there if it wasn't for that I'm a wee tired of the place |
| 19:16.52 | Gourra | I'm not going to follow the 2.4 hype by going to heroics |
| 19:17.40 | winkiller | I'm doing less heroics than before 2.4 attunement |
| 19:17.58 | winkiller | but gearing up my lock in kara and still trying to get the missing pieces on rogue and druid |
| 19:18.32 | winkiller | and ok, just now I was dragged because they missed one :P |
| 19:18.40 | Gourra | :P |
| 19:19.10 | winkiller | still so many blue s:( |
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| 19:58.12 | Dotted | omg |Pixel| |
| 19:58.13 | Dotted | omng |
| 19:58.17 | Dotted | omfg |
| 19:58.22 | Dotted | jesus |
| 19:58.23 | Dotted | omg |
| 19:58.26 | Dotted | tell |
| 19:58.27 | Dotted | me |
| 19:58.29 | Dotted | plz |
| 19:58.34 | Dotted | this is a lie right? |
| 19:58.35 | Dotted | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Ga5PuckA0 |
| 20:04.41 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: Illinois Legislator on NIU Rampage: Don’t Blame Guns, Blame Video Games - http://gamepolitics.com/2008/02/17/illinois-legislator-on-niu-rampage-dont-blame-guns-blame-video-games/ |
| 20:05.30 | Dotted | Fisker- |
| 20:05.32 | Dotted | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfBxHh4jI8Q |
| 20:05.39 | Ose | old... :P |
| 20:06.10 | Dotted | die |
| 20:07.10 | Fisker- | owld Dotted |
| 20:09.01 | Fisker- | doesn't say as much about that guy than it does about the audience |
| 20:11.11 | Fisker- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMriTkE3igY&feature=related <-thats the epic one |
| 20:13.10 | Ose | lolz |
| 20:15.05 | Fisker- | you must be smoking something bad to get those questions wrong |
| 20:21.18 | Ose | whats the code to get a collapsible box to be collapsed by default? |
| 20:22.47 | Ose | or, what do I need to change, when the first line looks like this: |
| 20:22.49 | Ose | {| class="mainpagetable toccolors collapsible" cellpadding="8px" cellspacing="0" |
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| 20:34.27 | Ose | what's the difference between <onlyinclude> and <includeonly> ? |
| 20:39.36 | Corgan | Lots. |
| 20:40.05 | Dotted | http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/gaf-gifs/bluraykill.gif |
| 20:43.47 | Ose | lol |
| 20:55.38 | PanSola | Reminder: #wikia-gaming chat in 5 min |
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| 21:06.21 | Ose | ~seen foxbot |
| 21:06.25 | infobot | foxbot <n=Foxbot@0x573e6bae.albnxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 1d 23h 19m 15s ago, saying: 'There are currently 0 queued operations.'. |
| 21:07.14 | Cairenn | <plug> new feature on wowi, pick(s) of the week: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14961 </plug> |
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| 21:23.53 | |Pixel| | Dotted: nope :) |
| 21:23.59 | |Pixel| | this isn't |
| 21:24.03 | Dotted | figures |
| 21:24.59 | |Pixel| | erm..... I'm *really* seeing it now |
| 21:25.02 | |Pixel| | omg |
| 21:27.17 | [NewsBot] | Dark Legacy: #130:Suspicious Musty Tome - http://www.darklegacycomics.com/130.html |
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| 21:50.01 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Forum post of the day: BOE Vortexes - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/forum-post-of-the-day-boe-vortexes/ |
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| 22:05.52 | DuTempete | PanSola, I understand this is amusing... but please let it go :P |
| 22:06.03 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: A WotLK preview hidden in the 2.4 Patch Files: The Tuskarr - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/a-wotlk-preview-hidden-in-the-2-4-patch-files-the-tuskarr/ |
| 22:09.43 | foxlit | http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/two-bosses-enter-illidan-stormrage-vs-the-twin-emperors/ |
| 22:10.01 | foxlit | "We are going to remove two elements of the Twins encounter from this match: their use of adds in their room and their ability to heal each other when in close range. " |
| 22:10.16 | foxlit | That's more or less the entire Twin Emps encounter |
| 22:11.47 | foxlit | "Some other things to remember about these death matches: we're not looking at autoattack dps, but special abilities when it comes to deciding the victor." |
| 22:11.56 | foxlit | "... special abilities which we removed, lolz" |
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| 22:57.07 | Gourra | yay t6! |
| 22:57.19 | Vesitin | i feel like healing something... |
| 22:57.35 | DuTempete | yay Gourra ! |
| 22:59.19 | Vesitin | man do all the DS3 have lousy set bonuses or just for the classes I roll? |
| 23:01.14 | Gourra | thanks DuTempete =) |
| 23:03.52 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: All the World's a Stage: Authentic class - http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/02/17/all-the-worlds-a-stage-authentic-class/ |
| 23:09.44 | *** part/#wowwiki Elassint (n=elassint@h5.57.17.98.ip.alltel.net) |
| 23:11.19 | DuTempete | Race names are capitalised, right? |
| 23:11.35 | foxlit | er |
| 23:11.40 | foxlit | They may not be |
| 23:11.50 | foxlit | It's one of those "I'm right and you're wrong" things in policy |
| 23:11.53 | DuTempete | like Draenei, Night Elf, Forsaken, etc? |
| 23:11.58 | DuTempete | lol |
| 23:13.30 | foxlit | As per the writing policy, race names ("humans", "dwarves", etc) are written in lowercase in WoWWiki. This also goes for when they appear in page names. Note that "nationalities" are capitalized, i.e. "Forsaken". |
| 23:13.30 | foxlit | Obv |
| 23:13.48 | DuTempete | ... |
| 23:13.59 | DuTempete | *sigh* |
| 23:14.04 | foxlit | (WW:NAME) |
| 23:14.29 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Policy/Writing#Race_name_case |
| 23:14.38 | foxlit | "Following Blizzard's recent developments on writing style, race names ("humans", "elves", "dwarves", etc) are now written in lower case in WoWWiki. This is in line with standard English writing rules. Note however that this means that nationality is still capitalized; just like "English", "Forsaken" is usually capitalized." |
| 23:15.12 | DuTempete | I suppose that makes sense |
| 23:15.25 | DuTempete | deer and human vs English and American |
| 23:29.40 | winkiller | why is allerian stronghold full of blood elves? |
| 23:33.52 | myke54142 | i'm still trying to figure out "dwarves" vs. "dwarfs" |
| 23:34.57 | winkiller | "High Elf Ranger" |
| 23:35.02 | winkiller | ok, but they have the BE model |
| 23:36.15 | Lukian | winkiller, oh those are high elves? |
| 23:36.35 | Lukian | I just assumed they were scryers faction BElfs, rather than horde factioned ones :p |
| 23:36.45 | winkiller | hehe |
| 23:37.02 | winkiller | well I've never been there |
| 23:37.10 | winkiller | the girl asked why there are BEs in Allerian |
| 23:37.15 | winkiller | so I flew there and had a look |
| 23:37.21 | winkiller | and noticed that ranger |
| 23:37.42 | Lukian | yeah I think there's only one there |
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| 23:48.47 | DuTempete | [[The Horde Brings You:]] sounds more like fanfic to me |
| 23:48.47 | [NewsBot] | DuTempete meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/The_Horde_Brings_You: |
| 23:48.49 | DuTempete | yes? |
| 23:50.58 | sacarasc | the videos are crap too |
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| 23:57.11 | DuTempete | and I'm not sure if the fact that the videos are recorded from modelers falls under DNP |
| 23:59.56 | DuTempete | what's the address for the eu armory? |
