| 00:17.06 | *** join/#wowwiki Gluefunk (n=no@89-212-26-212.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 00:20.25 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@cpc1-brmb4-0-0-cust549.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:31.07 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 00:31.07 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj] by ChanServ |
| 00:33.17 | Kirkburn | I'm having such fun on rationalwiki :P |
| 00:34.20 | *** join/#wowwiki theurge14 (n=theurge1@64-126-115-215.dyn.everestkc.net) |
| 00:37.19 | pcj | k |
| 00:52.11 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:52.11 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter_] by ChanServ |
| 01:08.30 | Gluefunk | ftw |
| 01:08.39 | Kirkburn | hullo |
| 01:08.46 | Gluefunk | hey |
| 01:22.37 | Kirkburn | Zurr, hey, you could put this on your bot's page? http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:User_Evil |
| 01:22.42 | *** join/#wowwiki harldephin (i=harl@dslb-084-063-101-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:24.39 | pcj | uhhh...thanks for the cookie kirkburn...i think |
| 01:25.05 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 01:36.02 | Kirkburn | pcj, http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/User:Kirkburn |
| 01:36.33 | pcj | That's...great |
| 01:36.39 | pcj | do you want a cookie? |
| 01:36.45 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 01:43.03 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 01:43.04 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter_] by ChanServ |
| 01:44.31 | Kirkburn | Zurr, awesome |
| 01:44.33 | Zurr | started with like 3,000 things in the list. its down to 850 like 3 hours later |
| 01:52.17 | *** join/#wowwiki dcramer_ (n=zeeg@adsl-76-251-95-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:02.15 | *** join/#wowwiki Arideni (i=Miranda@dialup-4.129.68.139.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net) |
| 02:05.12 | kd3 | heh... I think I've taken that political compass test before back in highschool ~5 years ago. good to see that my stance hasn't changed all that much. |
| 02:09.38 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 02:09.45 | Kirkburn|sleep | G'night all |
| 02:09.48 | Adys | nite kirk |
| 02:19.04 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 02:19.04 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter_] by ChanServ |
| 02:20.07 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-106.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:26.03 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v krag0th|Mac] by Adys |
| 02:26.24 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-106.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:28.21 | *** join/#wowwiki phyzzbt (n=phyzzbt@68-184-60-223.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com) |
| 02:32.41 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-106.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:38.48 | *** join/#wowwiki dcramer_ (n=zeeg@adsl-76-251-95-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:10.38 | dcramer_ | http://www.davidcramer.net/curse/74/file-widgets-on-curse.html |
| 03:13.55 | *** join/#wowwiki Arideni (i=Miranda@dialup-4.129.71.98.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net) |
| 03:14.41 | *** join/#wowwiki kd3|hate`net (n=kd3@host-12-173-142-252.nctv.com) |
| 03:15.03 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o kd3] by ChanServ |
| 03:22.40 | *** join/#wowwiki equiraptor (i=equirapt@rivaridge.equiraptor.com) |
| 03:25.34 | DuTempete | I hate trying to be polite to assholes. |
| 03:26.12 | DuTempete | I'm sitting here trying to think of the nicest way to tell this guy to stop being a dickhead. |
| 03:28.45 | *** join/#wowwiki MentalPower|ZZzz (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 03:31.57 | Kaso | Will you ever have to interact with this person again? |
| 03:32.10 | Kaso | If you anwsered no, then just be a dickhead |
| 03:34.55 | *** join/#wowwiki khangg (n=khangg@dhcp-0-17-9a-33-6d-f5.cpe.quickclic.net) |
| 03:35.48 | DuTempete | Yes, I will. |
| 03:36.21 | DuTempete | He's editing Warlock articles... I have a feeling I'll see a lot of him. |
| 03:37.01 | DuTempete | And, I have to be a good example, now that I'm dating Kirkburn, or he's going to suffer from it. :P |
| 03:48.37 | kd3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:52.49 | DuTempete | Shadowgrave, kd3 |
| 03:52.59 | DuTempete | and don't worry, I'll post it here before posting it to him :P |
| 03:53.05 | DuTempete | I'm still composing :P |
| 03:53.17 | DuTempete | Being diplomatic is really hard for me :P |
| 03:56.18 | DuTempete | Can anyone recall which article mentions how we're *not* supposed to be putting our names on what we contribute? |
| 03:56.41 | pcj | probably WW:SIG |
| 03:57.04 | pcj | well yeah it mentions it |
| 03:57.49 | DuTempete | yeah... |
| 03:58.02 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Wikiquette |
| 03:58.10 | kd3 | mention there |
| 04:04.10 | DuTempete | yeah, I marked that page, too |
| 04:04.32 | DuTempete | First, I want to say that I really appreciate your work on the Warlock articles. All help is appreciated, and you seem to have a real drive for talent specialisations; We need that! |
| 04:04.32 | DuTempete | As you may have noticed, I've replaced some of the things you've deleted. I thought the decision to delete them was a bit rash, as we like to stay objective, here, and keep our minds open to the fact that others may not play the game the same way we do. I would recommend reading [[WoWWiki:Text removal guidelines|this article]] for an example of the best way to deal with removing portions of articles. With topics as subjective as |
| 04:04.32 | DuTempete | talent specialisation, it may be very considerate to discuss the usefulness, or lack thereof, of a bit of information on the talk page, before deleting it from the article. |
| 04:04.34 | DuTempete | Please also know that it isn't considered good etiquette to sign your name on the parts of an article to which you contribute. The articles are considered to be a product of ''everyone's'' hard work, especially as the content is so fluid. Tomorrow, what you've written may not be there at all. If you want to receive credit for work of yours, or want total control, you can create a subpage of your userpage with [[User:Shallowgrave|p |
| 04:04.40 | DuTempete | ageName]]. You can link to that page in a "see also" section of the related article in the main namespace. |
| 04:04.42 | DuTempete | Again, thank you for your contributions, and please continue to [[WW:BOLD|be bold!]] |
| 04:12.50 | pcj | sounds good dutempete |
| 04:13.02 | DuTempete | not too condescending, nor too vague? |
| 04:13.27 | pcj | yeap |
| 04:13.41 | DuTempete | kd3? |
| 04:14.01 | kd3 | fine by me |
| 04:35.05 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 04:35.05 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter] by ChanServ |
| 04:47.19 | zeal | i liked it :p |
| 04:47.26 | zeal | so that probably says alot, lol |
| 04:51.41 | pcj | not really |
| 04:53.56 | Zeal | no? seems a turn around from being told i hate everything. |
| 05:01.23 | Zeal | nn all |
| 05:27.05 | *** join/#wowwiki arskeh (n=aki@a91-154-82-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 05:28.55 | Adys | any css expert around? |
| 05:29.02 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Bibi] by Adys |
| 05:30.01 | *** join/#wowwiki Acolytee (n=a@ppp59-167-152-72.lns4.mel6.internode.on.net) |
| 05:30.07 | Acolytee | pcj, you there? |
| 05:30.13 | pcj | yes |
| 05:31.32 | Acolytee | listen, with that tooltip thing.. |
| 05:31.41 | Acolytee | http://www.tanguay.info/temp/tooltip/ |
| 05:32.00 | Acolytee | according to this, I need to insert <span> with <div> content of the tooltip inside the <a> tag. |
| 05:32.17 | Acolytee | but somewhy [[{{{1}}}|<span style="color:green;">{{:{{{1}}}}}</span>]] |
| 05:32.23 | Acolytee | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.18 | Acolytee | outside spans are no biggie.. its the internals that give the trouble.. |
| 05:33.35 | pcj | mediawiki probably doesn't like it |
| 05:34.08 | Acolytee | well, I thought about that, too.. the only solution here is to write a tooltip extension that takes article name |
| 05:34.47 | Acolytee | and uses plain transclusion and html to construct thing whole <span><span><a><span><div> thing.. |
| 05:35.35 | Acolytee | also, is it possible to use template parameter as text and use it for transclusion, ala {{:{{{1}}}}}? |
| 05:38.21 | DuTempete | adys what doyou need CSS infos for? |
| 05:38.33 | Adys | Im trying to change the appearance of an element depending of the :focus state of another element without using JS |
| 05:38.46 | DuTempete | not possible |
| 05:38.48 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 05:38.48 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter_] by ChanServ |
| 05:39.11 | Adys | pretty sure it is |
| 05:39.14 | Adys | just not directly |
| 05:39.16 | DuTempete | elements don't have focus, browsers do |
| 05:39.39 | Adys | ill give you an example once Im done :p |
| 05:40.03 | DuTempete | nor can CSS check focus state |
| 05:40.10 | DuTempete | ok... whatever you say :P |
| 05:40.11 | Adys | eh? |
| 05:40.20 | Adys | element:focus { blah;} |
| 05:40.29 | DuTempete | that's JS... |
| 05:40.33 | Adys | no :P |
| 05:40.40 | kd3 | ?http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_pseudo_focus.asp |
| 05:40.42 | DuTempete | oh, you mean element.focus |
| 05:40.44 | kd3 | sans ? |
| 05:42.04 | DuTempete | hrm... well if it exists it's not something I've ever worked with, and obviously not heard of. |
| 05:42.29 | kd3 | it's part of the other standard pseudo-classes, :active, :visited, :hover |
| 05:42.41 | Adys | http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-roadmap/ |
| 05:42.46 | DuTempete | ah, hover I've worked with |
| 05:43.11 | DuTempete | the link pseudo-classes |
| 05:43.14 | kd3 | ya |
| 05:43.22 | kd3 | but it works for other stuff too |
| 05:43.38 | Dotted | [@DuTempete]: the pseudo-classes |
| 05:43.39 | Dotted | *fixed |
| 05:43.40 | Acolytee | pcj: there's an existing extension http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tooltip |
| 05:43.49 | pcj | cool |
| 05:44.04 | Acolytee | but somewhy it doesn't allow usage of {{:ArticleName}}, just plain text.. |
| 05:44.41 | DuTempete | no, I meant to say what I said, Dotted... |
| 05:44.54 | Dotted | i know |
| 05:45.02 | DuTempete | lol |
| 05:45.16 | DuTempete | ok, lemme read up on this Adys |
| 05:45.22 | Dotted | but because you mean something doesnt make it right |
| 05:45.24 | Dotted | or true |
| 05:45.57 | Adys | DuTempete: gimme one sec then :p |
| 05:46.52 | DuTempete | what element would be focused? |
| 05:50.47 | Adys | DuTempete: Basically Im trying to recreate help bubbles for signup forms |
| 05:50.51 | Adys | without using js |
| 05:51.13 | Acolytee | same here... |
| 05:51.29 | DuTempete | what signup forms? |
| 05:51.49 | Adys | http://digg.com/register/ |
| 05:51.50 | Adys | try this |
| 05:52.43 | Acolytee | so, its' not possible to use template parameter as plain text? |
| 05:53.30 | DuTempete | Adys, are you talking about tooltips? |
| 05:53.38 | Adys | nah |
| 05:53.44 | *** join/#wowwiki stinty (n=di4medol@d75-154-238-80.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 05:53.45 | Adys | just text visibility changing |
| 05:53.58 | DuTempete | text visibility? |
| 05:54.37 | Adys | okay basically |
| 05:54.39 | Adys | you got |
| 05:54.57 | Acolytee | display:none |
| 05:55.01 | Adys | <input id="element1"></input><span id="element2">Text here</span> |
| 05:55.09 | DuTempete | ohh... I see |
| 05:55.19 | DuTempete | like what's on that registration form |
| 05:55.38 | Adys | #element2 { visibility:hidden; } #element1:focus {code for element2 } |
| 05:55.42 | Adys | the reg form here uses js |
| 05:55.46 | Adys | but I want to make it in css |
| 05:55.48 | DuTempete | (I'd recommend making it more obvious you can click on the form titles, btw) |
| 05:55.54 | Acolytee | down there it uses <label for="email"> |
| 05:56.35 | DuTempete | why not just do it with a:hover, Adys? |
| 05:56.53 | Adys | why a? |
| 05:57.37 | Acolytee | because with wiki you'll have to write a link extension for that... same problem with me... |
| 05:57.43 | *** join/#wowwiki Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 05:57.50 | Adys | wut |
| 05:57.58 | Adys | Im not using any link or tooltip |
| 05:58.06 | Adys | just toggling the visibility of element2 |
| 05:58.14 | Adys | on element1's focus |
| 05:58.35 | Acolytee | precisely. to do that, you'll need to access style of <a> (anchor) tag |
| 05:58.50 | Acolytee | and you can't do that with default wiki's [[LinkHere]] |
| 05:58.50 | Adys | why would i? |
| 05:58.59 | Adys | Im not trying to do it on the wiki |
| 05:59.23 | Acolytee | oh, okay |
| 05:59.41 | DuTempete | ok, here's an idea, Adys |
| 06:00.02 | DuTempete | Can you put them both under one parent element... then force the form title visible at all times? |
| 06:00.26 | Adys | hmmm |
| 06:00.38 | Adys | sounds good |
| 06:00.41 | Adys | gonna try |
| 06:00.43 | Adys | brb |
| 06:01.02 | DuTempete | say put the hidden part in a div to move it, and the first bit in a div that forces it visible |
| 06:01.04 | Adys | wait no i cant |
| 06:01.12 | Adys | because dumb divs dont take :focus |
| 06:01.26 | DuTempete | you wouldn't put focus in the div |
| 06:01.36 | DuTempete | put it in the <p> around the divs |
| 06:01.53 | Adys | yeah hold on |
| 06:02.20 | DuTempete | the only things the divs would need are positioning, and whatever you're using for visibility |
| 06:05.52 | Adys | http://www.devcub.com/css.htm |
| 06:05.56 | Adys | doesnt work but nice shot |
| 06:06.33 | Adys | i wonder if with hover it works |
| 06:07.33 | Adys | doesnt, weird |
| 06:17.27 | DuTempete | darn, sorry it doesn't, Adys (: |
| 06:17.29 | DuTempete | err :( |
| 06:17.46 | pcj | kek |
| 06:18.32 | Adys | Im gonna use js in the end |
| 06:18.40 | Adys | i need some checks anyway |
| 06:18.41 | Adys | but damnit |
| 06:18.45 | Adys | im sure its possible |
| 07:00.06 | Lukian | can I cast my last stance/form with a macro? |
| 07:00.13 | WyriHaximus2nd | morning everyone |
| 07:00.42 | DuTempete | morning WyriHaximus2nd |
| 07:01.35 | WyriHaximus2nd | so how is everyone? |
| 07:03.57 | DuTempete | Tired, and therefore going to bed :P |
| 08:16.13 | *** join/#wowwiki infobot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:16.13 | *** topic/#wowwiki is Chan rules: http://tinyurl.com/36u82j - UI questions: #wowi-lounge - We are an official fan site, obey the ToU! || <+Zeal> bots should help do but allow you to do too, not do do but not let you don't do :p |
| 08:16.14 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 08:19.56 | *** join/#wowwiki Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.hjnqu1.broadband.tele.dk) |
| 08:19.56 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kalroth] by ChanServ |
| 08:43.20 | *** join/#wowwiki Telrin (n=test@klaagmuur.quince.nl) |
| 08:47.45 | *** join/#wowwiki Tinyboom (n=nahh@136.84-49-173.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:50.10 | Niat | g'morning, mates. |
| 09:05.21 | *** join/#wowwiki Daworm (n=Daworm@wikia/Daworm) |
| 09:22.22 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus2nd (n=WyriHaxi@62.58.132.42) |
| 09:53.45 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@cpc1-brmb4-0-0-cust549.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:57.00 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@cpc1-brmb4-0-0-cust549.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:04.07 | *** join/#wowwiki equiraptor (i=equirapt@rivaridge.equiraptor.com) |
| 10:06.53 | *** join/#wowwiki Gourra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se) |
| 10:15.33 | *** join/#wowwiki Srosh (n=Srosh@c155024.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 10:40.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Jack_Phoenix (n=Ashley@wikia/Jack-Phoenix) |
| 11:00.02 | Gourra | !jobqueue |
| 11:00.04 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 3 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 3secs. |
| 11:10.58 | *** join/#wowwiki Gluefunk (n=no@89-212-26-212.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 11:11.02 | Gluefunk | ftw |
| 11:24.27 | Kirkburn|sleep | Zurr, yay for your bot :) |
| 11:26.28 | Kirkburn|sleep | zomg, just received my Wii Remote Jackets :D |
| 11:26.40 | Kirkburn | Must be at leats two months since I ordered them |
| 11:27.21 | Gourra | Kirkburn: who's Zurr's bot? |
| 11:27.27 | Kirkburn | Zurr-bot :P |
| 11:27.33 | Kirkburn | Been fixing categories |
| 11:27.57 | Gourra | I see |
| 11:28.34 | Gourra | I hope it's better than Laurlybot who keeps getting tagged, even for NPCs/items/whatever that doesn't exist |
| 11:28.39 | Kirkburn | Hidden by default on the RC |
| 11:29.08 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 11:29.51 | Gourra | for example [[Commander Helleran]], [[Firemane Guard]] and [[Berthold the Doorman]] |
| 11:30.03 | Gourra | http://www.wowwiki.com/Commander_Helleran |
| 11:30.09 | Gourra | http://www.wowwiki.com/Firemane_Guard |
| 11:30.12 | Gourra | http://www.wowwiki.com/Berthold_the_Doorman |
| 11:30.22 | Kirkburn | If they don't exist, mark them for delete |
| 11:30.37 | Gourra | I have |
| 11:30.38 | Kirkburn | oh, they are :P |
| 11:30.58 | Kirkburn | huh, wonder how that happened |
| 11:31.35 | Gourra | I guess pcj saw the article and thought "oh I'm lazy I'll just tag for laurlybot and hope it'll fix it" |
| 11:32.37 | Gourra | away -> |
| 11:40.06 | *** join/#wowwiki Schnoobby (n=Schnoobb@wrzb-590dfd62.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:44.18 | *** join/#wowwiki Guardix (i=martin_j@87.59.120.111) |
| 11:53.01 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet11.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 11:53.02 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kaso] by ChanServ |
| 12:11.45 | *** join/#wowwiki Steik (n=Media@wikia/Wassily-Steik) |
| 12:17.09 | *** part/#wowwiki Steik (n=Media@wikia/Wassily-Steik) |
| 12:53.07 | *** join/#wowwiki [Liquidor] (n=denras19@fw-tk-1.ruc.dk) |
| 12:58.31 | *** join/#wowwiki Wulf_ (i=wulf@wulf.eu.org) |
| 13:19.14 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 13:19.15 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 14:21.55 | *** join/#wowwiki arskeh (n=aki@a91-154-82-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:25.19 | *** join/#wowwiki kadrahil (i=webfreak@xor.pablotron.org) |
| 14:41.55 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 14:41.55 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 14:42.31 | *** join/#wowwiki Polarina (n=Polarina@unaffiliated/polarina) |
| 14:48.55 | *** join/#wowwiki NeIXeR (n=NeIXeR@150.Red-88-25-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:49.05 | *** part/#wowwiki NeIXeR (n=NeIXeR@150.Red-88-25-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:59.44 | *** join/#wowwiki Ose (n=mathiaso@static142-224.adsl.no) |
| 15:00.21 | Ose | wuzzap? |
| 15:02.33 | Kaso | No much indeed |
| 15:05.33 | Ose | :P |
| 15:05.53 | Kaso | im not sure why i said indeed in that sentance |
| 15:06.27 | Gourra | indeed |
| 15:18.10 | *** join/#wowwiki soufron (n=soufron@213.215.56.61) |
| 15:25.00 | *** join/#wowwiki ltcolumbo (i=jga@wastelandranger.org) |
| 15:45.18 | *** join/#wowwiki phyzzbt (n=phyzzbt@68-184-60-223.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com) |
| 15:51.18 | *** join/#wowwiki Schnoobby (n=Schnoobb@wrzb-590dfd62.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:54.25 | Kirkburn | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OHxyZaZlaOs :) |
| 15:56.22 | Kirkburn | err ... my boat just intersected another :/ |
| 15:56.37 | Kirkburn | Fortunately I was on the bridge, otherwise I might have switched to the other :P |
| 15:57.29 | Kirkburn | (Rut'theran Village and Exodar boats from Auberdine) |
| 15:59.49 | *** join/#wowwiki cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 15:59.49 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 16:00.50 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 16:00.50 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 16:02.21 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 16:02.21 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj] by ChanServ |
| 16:02.40 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 16:02.40 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 16:05.00 | Schnoobby | lol nice one |
| 16:07.38 | Schnoobby | 2 weeks ago i wanted to take the boat from Booty Bay. i was standing on the pier as the boat came in and i got stuck at the side of the boat(hanging with my head) |
| 16:07.50 | Schnoobby | after the loading screen i dropped off :( |
| 16:08.07 | Schnoobby | long way to walk on water |
| 16:11.25 | Kaso | heathstone ftw |
| 16:12.26 | Schnoobby | waterwalking and watching tv^^ |
| 16:13.17 | Kaso | cheaty shaman |
| 16:14.04 | Schnoobby | we're not cheating |
| 16:17.43 | *** join/#wowwiki Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 16:17.43 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kalroth] by ChanServ |
| 16:24.05 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@cpc1-brmb4-0-0-cust549.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:26.56 | *** join/#wowwiki Chompers (n=Chomp@cpc1-cove9-0-0-cust541.brhm.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:28.33 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 16:28.33 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.01 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 16:41.01 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.21 | *** join/#wowwiki DuTempete (i=Du@c-67-173-162-206.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:41.21 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o DuTempete] by ChanServ |
| 16:42.03 | DuTempete | Good mooooooorning! |
| 16:44.45 | Kalroth | morning sunshine |
| 16:45.21 | Kalroth | Hows the northern america today? |
| 16:46.14 | DuTempete | lonely. |
| 16:46.24 | DuTempete | Kirkburn-less. |
| 16:47.07 | Kalroth | The majority of americans gets by without Kirkburn, I'm sure you can manage too! |
| 16:47.17 | DuTempete | No, I don't think I shall. |
| 16:47.50 | DuTempete | The majority of Americans aren't Kirkburn's girlfriend. :P |
| 16:48.01 | Kalroth | How do you know that?! |
| 16:48.27 | Kalroth | Well ok, not the majority |
| 16:48.32 | Kalroth | He doesn't swing that way, I tried |
| 16:49.24 | DuTempete | hehe |
| 16:49.57 | ltcolumbo | snowing |
| 16:49.59 | DuTempete | Yup. All mine. :P |
| 16:51.02 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 16:51.34 | Kirkburn | Fun site btw - http://www.fdhom.co.uk (bit of reading required) |
| 16:55.04 | Kaso | from a quick glance, very amusing |
| 16:55.10 | Kaso | i like "What conditions can FairDeal Homeopathy treat**?" |
| 16:58.04 | pcj | !wwstats |
| 16:58.05 | *** part/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 16:58.12 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 16:58.12 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 16:58.14 | pcj | !jobqueue\ |
| 16:58.15 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1sec. |
| 16:58.16 | pcj | !jobqueue |
| 16:58.16 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1sec. |
| 16:58.18 | pcj | heh |
| 16:58.36 | [NewsBot] | mIRCStats for #wowwiki updated by pcj! Check out the stats at http://www.bxd.dk/irc/freenode/wowwiki.html |
| 16:59.08 | *** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:59.08 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ |
| 16:59.10 | pcj | wb kirkburn |
| 16:59.28 | Kirkburn | huh |
| 16:59.34 | Kirkburn | I have no idea what's going on |
| 16:59.43 | pcj | what else is new |
| 16:59.58 | Kirkburn | I'm just trying to load Wikia pages, and it's just sitting there |
| 17:01.07 | Dotted | guess that site is sorta like http://www.jydskatomkraft.dk/international_news.html |
| 17:01.29 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 17:01.51 | Dotted | Kittens are especially well suited for these experiments as the metabolism of cats, and in particular kittens, causes radiation damage to develop very rapidly and the researchers will be able to study the radiation damage effects clearly after relatively brief exposures. |
| 17:02.16 | Dotted | too bad thats the only english page |
| 17:02.37 | *** join/#wowwiki Marko (n=chatzill@78-3-16-70.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 17:09.10 | *** join/#wowwiki dcramer_ (n=zeeg@adsl-76-251-95-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:09.20 | *** join/#wowwiki dcramer_ (n=zeeg@adsl-76-251-95-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:09.58 | Kalroth | You slut! |
| 17:10.02 | Kirkburn | So the sec change operation went well? |
| 17:10.03 | Adys | SHIT OH NO YOU WERE HERE |
| 17:10.10 | *** join/#wowwiki Ayvia (n=me@74.194.49.169) |
| 17:10.14 | Kirkburn | *sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex |
| 17:10.21 | Kalroth | quoteable! |
| 17:10.34 | *** topic/#wowwiki by Adys -> Chan rules: http://tinyurl.com/36u82j - UI questions: #wowi-lounge - We are an official fan site, obey the ToU! || <@Kirkburn> *sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex |
| 17:10.41 | Adys | Yes |
| 17:10.51 | DuTempete | omg sex what?! |
| 17:10.59 | Adys | He was talking to me |
| 17:11.00 | Adys | get away. |
| 17:11.05 | DuTempete | :( |
| 17:11.16 | pcj | ~fondle |
| 17:11.19 | infobot | stop it! :D |
| 17:11.19 | pcj | damn |
| 17:11.24 | Kalroth | haha |
| 17:11.30 | Kirkburn | Gnome sex > * |
| 17:11.33 | DuTempete | oooooh |
| 17:13.14 | pcj | i agree kirkburn |
| 17:13.28 | pcj | the best part about midget porn is you don't have to fold out the centerfold |
| 17:13.30 | *** topic/#wowwiki by Adys -> Chan rules: http://tinyurl.com/36u82j - UI questions: #wowi-lounge - We are an official fan site, obey the ToU! || <@Kirkburn> *sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex <+pcj> i agree kirkburn |
| 17:16.37 | *** join/#wowwiki InfWk (n=insane@216.174.160.26) |
| 17:16.49 | InfWk | howdy |
| 17:17.11 | Adys | hello |
| 17:17.24 | pcj | hi |
| 17:20.22 | *** join/#wowwiki sannse (n=me@wikia/pdpc.active.sannse) |
| 17:20.22 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o sannse] by ChanServ |
| 17:20.32 | InfWk | im looking for information on all the daily stuff? i know skettis and ogrila is there others? is there a wiki page that gives a breakdown? thanks |
| 17:21.28 | *** join/#wowwiki kadrahil (n=kad@24-158-161-205.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) |
| 17:22.46 | TecnoBrat | InfWk, I don't know if there is a wiki page (I'm sure there is) but this might also be useful: http://www.wowhead.com/?quests&filter=da=ja |
| 17:22.54 | TecnoBrat | Thats a list of all daily quests |
| 17:24.22 | InfWk | ah nice ya that helps |
| 17:24.37 | InfWk | i like the "daily check" wowhead is awesome |
| 17:24.42 | TecnoBrat | :) |
| 17:26.59 | Zeal | for future reference, #elem1:focus + #elem2 is the selector Adys needed ;) |
| 17:27.07 | Adys | :D |
| 17:27.09 | Adys | <3 |
| 17:27.49 | Zeal | but atleast with js he's been forced to support ie now :p |
| 17:28.10 | Adys | fuck you Im dropping js now I know how to do it in css |
| 17:28.15 | Zeal | haha |
| 17:29.36 | InfWk | TecnoBrat: the gold value doesn't seem to be correct. ie the skettis ones |
| 17:30.28 | Zeal | add more "+ * "s if it's not a direct sibiling. |
| 17:30.39 | Ayvia | pcj and Kirk.. do you play wow or do you just edit the wiki all day |
| 17:30.50 | pcj | i'm playing wow right now... |
| 17:30.57 | Zeal | can only select down the sibling tree annoyingly though, not up : / |
| 17:30.57 | Ayvia | nice |
| 17:31.01 | TecnoBrat | InfWk, ahhh but it is .. |
| 17:31.04 | TecnoBrat | click on it http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11015 |
| 17:31.10 | TecnoBrat | and you see: You will receive: 4 40 (+ 7 59 at level 70) |
| 17:31.44 | TecnoBrat | the main listing only shows rewards from the quest, doesn't include gold for the level 70 XP => Gold conversion |
| 17:32.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | Editing wikis is my job, Ayvia :P (though not WoWWiki) |
| 17:34.40 | TecnoBrat | Kirkburn|WoW, why not wowwiki? :P |
| 17:35.19 | Zeal | if you did fancy supporting ie7 Adys, it would require an <a> element sibling too, before or after the <input>, and use the same concept on that. |
| 17:36.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | I don't think Wikia wants to fund solely my hobby :) |
| 17:36.00 | WoWTempete | He does that just for amusement, Tecnobrat. |
| 17:36.27 | Adys | just like I'm still not paid to act like a smartass in dozens of irc channels |
| 17:36.33 | Adys | I do that "just for amusement". :( |
| 17:39.05 | Zeal | lol |
| 17:46.53 | winkiller | "Chief Smartass Officer - CSO" |
| 17:48.40 | dcramer_ | i could fill that position |
| 17:48.49 | dcramer_ | $320 if you want an interview ! |
| 17:48.52 | dcramer_ | www.notchup.com :p |
| 17:49.40 | Marko | does anyone buy crystal focus for ogrilla? |
| 17:49.50 | Marko | is it worth any? |
| 17:52.49 | InfWk | TecnoBrat; thanks im retarded |
| 17:53.03 | TecnoBrat | InfWk, nah, you aren't :) |
| 17:53.21 | TecnoBrat | Only makes sense when you know :P |
| 17:54.41 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@adsl-68-123-180-95.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:11.00 | [Liquidor] | Bored? Visit http://armory.artoman.com/ then |
| 18:22.39 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 18:22.39 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 18:23.15 | Zeal | O_o |
| 18:23.44 | Zeal | i take it they're not paid positions [Liquidor]? lol |
| 18:35.24 | [Liquidor] | Uhm |
| 18:35.38 | [Liquidor] | Zeal, could you visit the page again? Just testing out the page analyzer |
| 18:36.01 | [Liquidor] | http://armory.artoman.com/ |
| 18:42.17 | pcj | is mongoose the best enchant for tanks |
| 18:47.22 | winkiller | http://www.kittyhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hello-kitty-wow.jpg |
| 18:50.26 | InfWk | pcj, i dunno mongoose or executioner but i think people were complaining about the cost of executioner not being as worthy as mongoose |
| 18:50.46 | pcj | executioner is a dps enchant... |
| 18:51.35 | pcj | and mostly pvp dps... |
| 18:55.24 | Zeal | erm. done [Liquidor] :S |
| 18:56.34 | [Liquidor] | I know, thanks. |
| 18:56.53 | [Liquidor] | Just checking server variabls for the log. |
| 19:08.51 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-106.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:10.51 | InfWk | pcj then yes mongoose |
| 19:14.26 | *** join/#wowwiki ThraeBot (n=ThraeBot@pool-71-166-57-140.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:14.26 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v ThraeBot] by ChanServ |
| 19:17.17 | *** join/#wowwiki cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 19:17.17 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 19:19.09 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Template_talk:Tempest_Keep |
| 19:19.10 | kd3 | comments? |
| 19:21.33 | Zeal | added |
| 19:22.44 | InfWk | nice |
| 19:22.48 | InfWk | was looking for something like that |
| 19:24.54 | pcj | what's there to comment about, it needs to be split |
| 19:25.39 | pcj | Dire Maul should be split too |
| 19:30.53 | *** join/#wowwiki Thrae (n=Thrae@pool-71-166-57-140.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:30.54 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Thrae] by ChanServ |
| 19:45.22 | Kyrin | ... |
| 19:46.21 | pcj | hi sportygal |
| 19:46.23 | pcj | how are you doing |
| 19:46.29 | sportygal | hi good - sorry for the nick floods |
| 19:46.37 | sportygal | got one more and then I'm done |
| 19:46.42 | Kyrin | heh |
| 19:54.05 | *** join/#wowwiki Guardix (i=martin_j@87.59.120.111) |
| 20:06.23 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@adsl-68-123-180-95.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 20:08.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah, please god, switch the Tempest Keep templates |
| 20:08.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | Who on earth made them as one template? |
| 20:09.18 | Kirkburn|WoW | :) |
| 20:12.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, why do I keep reminding you ... infoboxes are *furthest right* |
| 20:13.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | The nav templates are second |
| 20:13.17 | pcj | that's not what the MOS says |
| 20:13.36 | Zeal | i thought that was what it said :S |
| 20:13.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | Er, it is, pcj |
| 20:13.49 | Kirkburn|WoW | I did write it :P |
| 20:13.51 | pcj | http://www.wowwiki.com/WW:MOS#Navigation_boxes |
| 20:14.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah, read it :) |
| 20:14.42 | pcj | Well, which pages are you referring to |
| 20:15.05 | Kirkburn|WoW | The second bullet point? |
| 20:15.05 | pcj | And say I use a larger font than normal so the navboxes are longer than the infobox |
| 20:15.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | Oh |
| 20:15.10 | Zeal | ah, the length exception went live. |
| 20:15.22 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah, tweaked the text on that just now Zeal |
| 20:15.49 | Zeal | that's cheating :P |
| 20:16.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | I didn't change the meaning |
| 20:16.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | Dunno what you're talking about with the font, but all the Stratholme articles, pcj |
| 20:16.32 | Kirkburn|WoW | You placed the navbox to the right on the infobox on them all :P |
| 20:16.41 | Zeal | if pcj uses's a larger font it is possible the sizing of each would be different. |
| 20:16.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | I have no idea why anyone is talking about font sizes |
| 20:17.00 | Zeal | *uses |
| 20:17.32 | pcj | Larger font means larger table rows, which means longer table, which means longer in respect to a table composed mainly of a picture, which the infobox is |
| 20:18.12 | Zeal | evne more reason to get rid of them completely ;) |
| 20:18.28 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj .... no? |
| 20:18.41 | Zeal | yes? |
| 20:18.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | What a weird way to fix a problem that is simply fixed by following the MoS :/ |
| 20:19.03 | Kirkburn|WoW | Infoboxes to the right, split long nav templates |
| 20:19.04 | Zeal | btw, why don;t you just include the bosses in the infobox anyway? |
| 20:19.08 | Kirkburn|WoW | how is that hard? |
| 20:19.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, cause it's a boss nav template ... you wouldn't have the instance navbox on boss pages ... |
| 20:20.13 | Kirkburn|WoW | People navigate the boss pages via that template - it should be in a consistent position |
| 20:20.32 | Zeal | er.. what? have the bosses in the instance infobox, the instance in the boss's infobox. simple |
| 20:20.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | And they navigate from boss to boss, not boss, instance, boss, instance, boss |
| 20:20.52 | Zeal | theres no reason to have a seperate nav template for soemthing which is actually summary info. |
| 20:20.53 | pcj | Wait, how is it consistent if it varies if it's longer than a given infobox? |
| 20:21.13 | Kirkburn|WoW | Then SPLIT IT |
| 20:21.24 | pcj | ...what if it's already split |
| 20:21.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | Then we have a made-up situation |
| 20:21.49 | Kirkburn|WoW | If it was a real situation, then we can talk |
| 20:21.53 | Zeal | and to be consistant, a boss nav template would be at the bottom of the page, on boss pages only. |
| 20:22.10 | Zeal | presto, no more issues. |
| 20:22.23 | Kirkburn|WoW | I've explained this before ... people navigate those pages using that template |
| 20:22.33 | pcj | OK Kirkburn, http://www.wowwiki.com/Stonespine versus http://www.wowwiki.com/Aurius |
| 20:22.36 | Kirkburn|WoW | Putting it at the bottom of the page is uneccessary and unhelpful |
| 20:22.38 | pcj | Switches sides per WW:MOS |
| 20:22.57 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, that argument is ridiculous, as people navigate the pages via all the templates at the bottom too |
| 20:23.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | Not in sequence, like boss pages |
| 20:23.37 | Zeal | the other bosses don't have an important enough relationship to be at the top of the page |
| 20:23.42 | Zeal | same with sequence templates |
| 20:23.46 | Zeal | theey're all at the bottom |
| 20:23.53 | Kirkburn|WoW | Hello, do you know how people run instances? |
| 20:23.53 | Zeal | titles, heirs etc. |
| 20:24.03 | Kirkburn|WoW | They look at a boss page, then the next page then the next |
| 20:24.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | Why make them scroll to the bottom every time they want to change page |
| 20:24.17 | Zeal | yes, do you know that it's got nothing to do with it, you're making an exception where there is none. |
| 20:24.41 | pcj | Proof of my earlier point: http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Auriuslgfont.jpg |
| 20:24.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, on Stonespire, it wouldn't make a difference either way around |
| 20:24.48 | pcj | Large font = navbox longer than infobox |
| 20:24.49 | Zeal | all other sequential nav and nav templates are at the bottom. |
| 20:25.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | But people don't navigate those in sequence normally |
| 20:25.36 | Zeal | ... |
| 20:25.46 | Zeal | if you think that, then you're crazy. |
| 20:25.46 | pcj | Kirkburn, per stonespire, it still proves my point that it can and does happen |
| 20:26.04 | pcj | And so your earlier statement that it's a made-up situation is flawed |
| 20:26.05 | Kirkburn|WoW | Give me an example where the majority of people go from page to page on a template |
| 20:26.21 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, you've given me an example where it doesn't matter |
| 20:26.24 | Zeal | family trees, titles. quests lines. |
| 20:26.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | Give me one where it's a problem |
| 20:26.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | Family trees? |
| 20:26.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | Quest lines? |
| 20:26.51 | Kirkburn|WoW | Do either of those exist? |
| 20:26.52 | pcj | Why doesn't it matter there? |
| 20:27.03 | Zeal | yes, they do. |
| 20:27.23 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, wouldn't affect the article text |
| 20:27.57 | pcj | ...it still switches sides |
| 20:28.03 | pcj | Your point was that it should be consistent |
| 20:28.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | I just made a tweak to the MoS to say "much longer than" |
| 20:28.26 | pcj | My point was that if the infobox is shorter on a given page than the navbox it will then switch sides per WW:MOS |
| 20:28.41 | Kirkburn|WoW | If you reloaded it 5 mins ago, you would have seen :P |
| 20:29.08 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, and the majority of people navigate all those pages? |
| 20:29.30 | pcj | So say a raid instance like MC has a long infobox full of lore for something like Ragnaros...and another page with 3 lines for a mob...the infobox is going to be a lot shorter on one page than the other |
| 20:29.35 | Zeal | they're on npc pages, quest pages.. ofc they do. |
| 20:29.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'm not talking about /using/ the template |
| 20:30.02 | pcj | ....isn't that what the MOS is talking about |
| 20:30.27 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'm talking about the majority of users clicking from one article to the next, sequentially |
| 20:30.34 | Zeal | yes |
| 20:30.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | The only template users do that with would be instances, because that's how instances work |
| 20:30.50 | Zeal | that's how quests work too |
| 20:31.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | But we don't freaking use these templates for that |
| 20:31.11 | Zeal | that's how people looking at characters may choose to navigate too (mainly because it's the main way) |
| 20:31.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | It's got nothing to do with the conversation :/ |
| 20:31.19 | Zeal | yes, it has |
| 20:31.27 | Kirkburn|WoW | No, it doesn't |
| 20:31.33 | pcj | circular arguments ftw |
| 20:31.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | If we have quest templates, then it might be relevant |
| 20:31.50 | Kirkburn|WoW | We don't, it isn't |
| 20:32.16 | pcj | #wowwiki - discovering every day what really happens when the Unstoppable Force encounters the Immovable Object |
| 20:32.25 | Kirkburn|WoW | We also don't list other bosses within another bosses article content, because it's not relevant. With questlines it is. |
| 20:33.18 | Zeal | sigh, w/e. if you're going to not even going to accept pcj's argument, and asume things about one single type os visitor then it's not evne worth discussing it with you. |
| 20:33.23 | Zeal | *of |
| 20:33.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | We're having two different discussions |
| 20:33.56 | Kirkburn|WoW | You want it to be horizontal, pcj want the MoS positioning clarified |
| 20:34.05 | Zeal | yes, jsut pointing out that apprently you're being stubborn/blind today. |
| 20:34.18 | pcj | Oh, I want it to be horizontal too |
| 20:34.20 | Kirkburn|WoW | Apparently |
| 20:34.37 | pcj | But since you're not going to do that you should at least be consistent in positioning |
| 20:34.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | Want it to be horizontal? Get support. |
| 20:34.54 | pcj | See WW:VP |
| 20:35.08 | Zeal | probably is pcj, you can't be consistant with that ruling, as you've proven. |
| 20:35.09 | pcj | Foxlit and Baggins both agreed |
| 20:35.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | Last I saw, it didn't have support |
| 20:35.12 | Zeal | *problem is |
| 20:35.22 | pcj | Didn't have your support |
| 20:35.28 | Zeal | thoguht it was onyl fandy that opposed it. |
| 20:35.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | I didn't add the bloody exception :/ |
| 20:35.43 | pcj | Yeah, you and fandy were the only ones |
| 20:36.49 | Kirkburn|WoW | Where on the VP? |
| 20:36.53 | Lukian | http://www.wowwiki.com/Vengeful_Gladiator's_Sanctuary |
| 20:36.56 | Lukian | no item cost? |
| 20:37.12 | Lukian | that would be really useful information, although I can just check a db site |
| 20:37.13 | kd3 | huh. woo for drysc clearing up commonly-held misconceptions... http://www.wowblues.com/us/is-loot-determined-when-the-moster-dies-4311143050.html |
| 20:37.21 | kd3 | always thought loot was generated on death, guess not |
| 20:37.25 | Kirkburn|WoW | To summarize what I am trying to get across ... where the navbox is longer than the infobox, first try and shorten the navbox. |
| 20:37.52 | Zeal | beleive it's been said before, back shortly after release kd3, that's how i knew. |
| 20:37.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | Infoboxes need expanding all over the place too |
| 20:38.11 | pcj | http://www.wowwiki.com/WW:VP#Converting_vertical_templates_to_horizontal_templates |
| 20:38.19 | pcj | There on the VP |
| 20:38.49 | pcj | Shortening the navbox doesn't always solve the problem, it just makes it less likely |
| 20:39.27 | Kirkburn|WoW | Er, I see no big support for changing the instance ones |
| 20:39.47 | Lukian | haha "Well hopefully I'm still here tomorrow then, I didn't realize it wasn't common knowledge or at least discussed officially before." |
| 20:39.56 | Zeal | afaik, it was for all. |
| 20:40.02 | Kyrin | kd3: Yeah, and I love Drysc's final comment on it too |
| 20:40.11 | Zeal | :p |
| 20:40.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | No, instance navigation templates were not included |
| 20:40.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | Hmm, rereading |
| 20:41.13 | *** join/#wowwiki Keolah (n=zenkeola@71.237.221.95) |
| 20:41.34 | Kirkburn|WoW | K, so it seems that it's split between people the same as now, wanting it up top but not vertical, or wanting it down the bottom |
| 20:41.45 | Zeal | there wasn't anything excluding them as far as i can see. |
| 20:41.53 | Zeal | aye |
| 20:41.58 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah, sorry, misread a bit |
| 20:42.51 | Kirkburn|WoW | Horizontal templates just aren't that good for lists |
| 20:43.49 | Kirkburn|WoW | (especially ordered lists) |
| 20:44.09 | Zeal | anyways, what i'm suggesting is put immediate/important/sequential nav in the summary, as it's highly relevant to that page, not because it offers naviagation. eg, at the bottom of a boss page, put previou and next bosses (irregardless of how many that may be), the instance they're in, the zone too if applicable. then have a full boss nav at the bottom. |
| 20:44.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | Previuous/next boss is an idea I like |
| 20:44.40 | Zeal | *at the bottom of a boss infobox |
| 20:44.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | Similar to how patches are done |
| 20:45.13 | Zeal | indeed |
| 20:45.26 | Zeal | but more summary focused :P |
| 20:45.36 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'd definately throw my support in for that |
| 20:45.56 | Zeal | i'll add it to the discussion, see what we get. |
| 20:46.01 | Kirkburn|WoW | Though could be a problem with some instances that aren't so ordered |
| 20:46.04 | Zeal | just gunan throw up an example. |
| 20:46.20 | Zeal | aye, hope to problem solve that as i go with making an example :P |
| 20:46.27 | Zeal | think i'll use the eye. |
| 20:47.17 | Kirkburn|WoW | And for the instance page, I guess we could put the boss list on the end of the infobox |
| 20:47.56 | Zeal | aye |
| 20:48.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | Should satify all parties I think ... keeps boss nav up top and below |
| 20:48.56 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, you can come back now, I'm being less stubborn :P |
| 20:49.01 | Zeal | lol |
| 20:49.06 | pcj | gg |
| 20:49.10 | pcj | do you want a cookie? |
| 20:49.38 | Kirkburn|WoW | Not the one I gave you ;) |
| 20:50.20 | Kirkburn|WoW | Anyway, I was arguing against moving everything down to the bottom |
| 20:50.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | Instances are stressful, so I don't want to make it harder for users in any way |
| 20:51.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | Think about most websites - they don't generally stick the navigation well off the pageload |
| 20:51.38 | Kirkburn|WoW | esp if the navigation is frequently used |
| 20:51.49 | pcj | previous / next boss links will be hard to define, especially for raid instances |
| 20:52.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | "Related topics" style navigation is mostly what we have at the bottom |
| 20:52.21 | Zeal | i know, i was jsut saying navs should go at the bottom, but if the info is actually relevent and ould make sense as a summary, then it doubles as a top nav without any of the issues. |
| 20:52.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | Rather than "next page in the sequence" navigaton which is more the instance style |
| 20:53.08 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, indeed, have to see if we can work around that somehow |
| 20:53.15 | Zeal | screw it, i really cba to modify a table template.. too messy to read and work with. |
| 20:54.07 | WoWTempete | wow... that's some serious shopping, Kirkburn|WoW :P |
| 20:54.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | As long as previous/next allows more than one choice, would that not work? |
| 20:54.44 | pcj | How would that look? |
| 20:54.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | e.g. pass one boss, unlocks the next and an optional ... show both as next |
| 20:54.52 | Zeal | depends how we do it. |
| 20:55.05 | Zeal | more semantically correct, the easier ;) |
| 20:55.24 | Kirkburn|WoW | On the next sequence boss, show the optional and first boss as "previous" |
| 20:55.33 | *** join/#wowwiki SolaPan (n=pu@adsl-68-123-180-95.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 20:55.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_2.3.2 being the prev/next style |
| 20:56.10 | pcj | Patches have a defined sequence :P |
| 20:56.22 | Kirkburn|WoW | *Mostly* bosses do too |
| 20:56.56 | Kirkburn|WoW | Even in raids, there's still a general order |
| 20:57.17 | Kirkburn|WoW | Although, Kara is kinda odd, no? |
| 20:57.25 | pcj | Somewhat |
| 20:57.31 | pcj | It has a lot of bosses you can skip |
| 20:57.37 | Kirkburn|WoW | Next could show all possible next bosses |
| 20:57.38 | pcj | Only like 3 are completely required |
| 20:58.01 | pcj | err, 4 really |
| 20:58.46 | Zeal | 3 lists, directly previous only, directly next only, optional/any order. |
| 20:59.21 | Zeal | jsut wouldn't list bosses that can't be done until the directly previous/next ones are done. |
| 20:59.32 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, prev next like on patches, then a line underneath for optional? |
| 21:00.24 | Zeal | well, could do it many ways. er.. left prev, center optional/any, right next i'm thinking. |
| 21:00.38 | WoWTempete | Ok, no one is allowed to talk to Kirkburn|WoW again until he's eaten dinner. He's getting too distracted by teh wiki! |
| 21:00.39 | Zeal | but yeah, left, right and underneath works ok too. |
| 21:00.45 | Kirkburn|WoW | I don't think there'd be enough space |
| 21:00.46 | Zeal | lol |
| 21:00.47 | WoWTempete | And he's already skinny enough. |
| 21:00.52 | Kirkburn|WoW | :O |
| 21:01.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | IRC: stressful, but you get stuff done :P |
| 21:01.44 | WoWTempete | shoo! |
| 21:01.51 | Kirkburn|WoW | :) |
| 21:01.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | *cuddle* |
| 21:01.58 | WoWTempete | *snuggle* |
| 21:02.05 | WoWTempete | Don't make me kickban you. |
| 21:02.10 | Zeal | snuggle > * |
| 21:02.23 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@adsl-68-123-180-95.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:02.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | :O |
| 21:02.31 | WoWTempete | wb PanSola |
| 21:11.18 | WoWTempete | ugh... this is a headache conversation |
| 21:12.06 | WoWTempete | IMO: put boss nav at the end of the infobox, only for that instance, and don't next/prev is because most instances don't fit entirely into a set sequence. |
| 21:12.15 | WoWTempete | Just list them all, and make that portion hideable |
| 21:13.08 | WoWTempete | so Zeal, good idea on that. I was thinking the same thing as I read the conversation. |
| 21:13.26 | WoWTempete | Honestly, we could/should get rid of the boss/instance navboxes from the boss pages all together. |
| 21:14.03 | Zeal | well i'd say get rid of all nav, but if thwe're going to have any, they're as good as any. |
| 21:14.18 | Zeal | but then i also disagree that all bosses should be in the infobox. |
| 21:14.45 | WoWTempete | not *all* bosses... just all in the same instance |
| 21:14.59 | Zeal | yeah, that's what i meant, not all bosses in the same instance. |
| 21:15.05 | WoWTempete | why not? |
| 21:15.51 | Zeal | as they've no direct relationship to the current boss, so not really something you summarize about the boss itself. |
| 21:16.20 | pcj | Hmm, disagree with you there Zeal |
| 21:16.25 | pcj | If it's hidden by default, should be great |
| 21:16.38 | WoWTempete | how do bosses in the same instance *not* have a direct relationship to it? |
| 21:16.39 | WoWTempete | of course they have a direct relationship |
| 21:16.39 | WoWTempete | they're in the same damned instance. |
| 21:16.51 | WoWTempete | and that's how a user would be navigating |
| 21:16.55 | Zeal | they're not direct, they're indirect. |
| 21:17.04 | WoWTempete | they're quite direct :P |
| 21:17.21 | Zeal | ie. boss a is related to boss c because it's in instance x. rather than boss as is related to boss b. |
| 21:17.37 | Zeal | *a is |
| 21:17.44 | WoWTempete | both are direct relations |
| 21:18.02 | Zeal | ... no point in continuing to discuss that then. |
| 21:18.15 | Zeal | pcj, what do you mean btw? |
| 21:18.47 | pcj | <@WoWTempete> Just list them all, and make that portion hideable |
| 21:18.55 | pcj | hidden by default |
| 21:19.02 | WoWTempete | hidden by default would be good |
| 21:19.19 | Zeal | recode the js so it works for non-tables plx :p |
| 21:20.26 | Zeal | really, what you two are after is simply moving it underneath the infobox, rather than merging. |
| 21:20.38 | pcj | ...no not really |
| 21:20.51 | Zeal | has the same result you want. |
| 21:21.15 | WoWTempete | even so... what's wrong with that? |
| 21:21.52 | Kirkburn|WoW | Agree with WoWTempete idea |
| 21:22.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | Could have both ideas in one btw |
| 21:22.18 | Kirkburn|WoW | Karazhan have boss list only |
| 21:22.24 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 21:22.24 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 21:22.29 | Kirkburn|WoW | But sequential instance, have the prev/next bit as well |
| 21:22.40 | WoWTempete | Where is the talk for this issue? |
| 21:22.51 | Zeal | vp |
| 21:22.56 | Zeal | pcj linekd it earlier. |
| 21:23.03 | Kirkburn|WoW | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump#Manual_of_Style:_navigation_bars |
| 21:23.06 | pcj | http://www.wowwiki.com/WW:VP#Converting_vertical_templates_to_horizontal_templates |
| 21:23.13 | Kirkburn|WoW | Oh yeah that |
| 21:23.22 | pcj | Meh, both part of the same issue |
| 21:23.24 | Kirkburn|WoW | Methinks a new section to present these new ideas? |
| 21:23.51 | pcj | They're not new, we just held your feet over the fire :P |
| 21:24.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | I really like prev/next for the sequential instances, and a hidden boss drop down list seems a good compromise over the location issue |
| 21:24.12 | Zeal | lol |
| 21:24.36 | Kirkburn|WoW | The method of presentation is certainly new :( |
| 21:24.43 | pcj | http://www.wowwiki.com/WW:VP#Converting_vertical_templates_to_horizontal_templates |
| 21:24.50 | pcj | What I think we should do is either: |
| 21:24.50 | pcj | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.50 | pcj | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.51 | pcj | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.52 | Zeal | well considering it's hidden, i don't really see why that kind of nav shouldn't just be moved to the bottom. |
| 21:24.52 | pcj | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.54 | pcj | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.57 | pcj | bah |
| 21:24.59 | pcj | stupid sig |
| 21:25.11 | pcj | but it's not new |
| 21:25.27 | Zeal | indeed, it's not. i'm jsut throwing a different twist into it. |
| 21:25.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | Ah, I didn't see the wiki around that time |
| 21:26.09 | pcj | Not my problem |
| 21:26.18 | Kirkburn|WoW | Saw gourra's bit, missed the first line :/ |
| 21:26.28 | Kirkburn|WoW | Well, you didn't bring it up again here! |
| 21:26.45 | pcj | Well, you had replied to that discussion |
| 21:26.58 | Kirkburn|WoW | If you're going to argue for something, don't assume I read a single line several weeks ago :P |
| 21:27.13 | pcj | Kirkburn talk contr 15:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC) |
| 21:27.14 | pcj | what |
| 21:27.41 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah, gourra's changes, I had to make an emergency stop |
| 21:27.48 | pcj | suuuuure |
| 21:28.08 | WoWTempete | clicking a show button is *not* the same as scrolling to the bottom of the page |
| 21:28.09 | *** join/#wowwiki MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 21:28.21 | pcj | Point 1 instead of 2 dutempete |
| 21:28.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | He was changing instance pages before we had consensus :P |
| 21:28.33 | Zeal | it is the same as anchoring to the bottom of the page though. |
| 21:28.40 | pcj | He was making examples on a sandbox |
| 21:28.40 | WoWTempete | yes, that's what I'd like |
| 21:28.48 | WoWTempete | I was talking to zeal about what he said, though |
| 21:28.59 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, not as far as I recall first time around |
| 21:29.13 | pcj | Well, I don't remember either, but that doesn't really matter now anyway |
| 21:29.35 | WoWTempete | Kirkburn|WoW, wtf is wrong with copy/paste in this frustrated IRC client?! |
| 21:29.43 | Kirkburn|WoW | :O |
| 21:29.50 | WoWTempete | I'm about ready to trash it. |
| 21:29.53 | Kirkburn|WoW | :( |
| 21:30.06 | Kirkburn|WoW | and tightly |
| 21:31.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, an anchor moves the entire screen, a show button doesn't and keeps the list close to the mouse |
| 21:31.50 | Kirkburn|WoW | Gives a better user experience as it feels more "controllable" |
| 21:32.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | Users mostly want to be in charge (think Web 2.0), this is a (very) basic thing in the same area |
| 21:34.17 | *** join/#wowwiki Taurmindo (i=taurmind@c-dc90e355.010-67-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:34.18 | Kirkburn|WoW | Even with the Main Page where show/hide makes little difference, users will feel more empowered by being able to fiddle |
| 21:34.56 | pcj | Well, more difference now that we save states :P |
| 21:35.01 | Kirkburn|WoW | :) |
| 21:36.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | (you might be able to tell, I like reading about UX - user experience - stuff) |
| 21:36.37 | *** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 21:36.37 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 21:37.39 | Tekkub | meh? |
| 21:38.40 | WoWTempete | Kirkburn|WoW, in-game |
| 21:39.04 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, things that change the layout of things around it are also bad using the same argument. |
| 21:39.34 | Zeal | such as changing fonts and bold on hover and such. those navs are going to have a large impact on the content below it, all has to be reflowed. |
| 21:44.14 | Kirkburn|WoW | "Large" is a bit of an exaggeration, but I see your point |
| 21:44.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | We're only talking about extending a box though, no hover effect or anything |
| 21:44.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | An anchor changes the *entire* page |
| 21:45.55 | Zeal | exaggeration? it changes the layout of everything alongside it, which in turn causes the length of the page to increase and move everything else further down. |
| 21:46.26 | Zeal | anchor lets you jump down to what you want, so being moved is intentional and desired. |
| 21:46.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | Assuming you're looking at the page where the show button is, you're only likely to change anything below it and on the right |
| 21:47.05 | Zeal | huh? |
| 21:47.09 | *** join/#wowwiki Gourra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se) |
| 21:47.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | It won't make any difference past the next section header too |
| 21:47.34 | Kirkburn|WoW | When you view a page, you don't see the entirety of it, whatever changes off screen makes little odds |
| 21:47.49 | Zeal | yes, it will. if you're clearing, it will move it down, if you're not, it was increase it's length and reduce it's width. |
| 21:48.03 | Zeal | *will increase |
| 21:48.22 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yes, you'll reduce the width of a short section of text |
| 21:48.34 | Zeal | and the same argument about offscreen could be used for the entiretly of the anchor method. |
| 21:48.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | um, no |
| 21:48.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | Because with the anchor .... you change everything that's on screen |
| 21:49.06 | Kirkburn|WoW | With the show/hide, you change a minority of it |
| 21:49.10 | Zeal | short? the infbox is already long, the change can potentiall cover several sections. |
| 21:49.14 | Kirkburn|WoW | And it places the links by the mouse |
| 21:49.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | Just how many bosses do you expect an instance to have? |
| 21:49.33 | Zeal | as does an anchor. |
| 21:49.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | No, an anchor doesn't |
| 21:49.47 | Zeal | depends how many you're looking at. |
| 21:50.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | How on earth can an anchor do so? |
| 21:50.14 | Kirkburn|WoW | It places the screen at that location, not the mouse |
| 21:50.48 | Zeal | yes it does, it moves the content into your viewport, which is where you mouse will be having clicked an anchor, and if you're navigating without a mouse, will provide you quicker access too. |
| 21:50.59 | pcj | I say we just use Javascript to take over the mouse and make the user do what we want to |
| 21:51.05 | Zeal | lol |
| 21:51.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | The navbox is at the bottom of the page, the mouse won't always be |
| 21:51.38 | Zeal | the anchor will move the bottom to your mouse, that's the idea. |
| 21:51.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | Pages can't scroll past the bottom, so if you clicked the anchor when the mouse was near the window top, it cannot possibly end up near the list |
| 21:52.21 | Zeal | because of the wonderful array of nav templates, the bottom if close enough. |
| 21:52.25 | Zeal | *is |
| 21:52.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | There would be one |
| 21:52.32 | Kirkburn|WoW | Just one |
| 21:52.37 | Zeal | nope |
| 21:52.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | We're talking about bosses, remember |
| 21:52.47 | Zeal | bosses are npcs too remember? |
| 21:52.52 | Kirkburn|WoW | so? |
| 21:52.56 | Zeal | on average they have about 3 |
| 21:53.01 | Kirkburn|WoW | lol, wut |
| 21:53.06 | Kirkburn|WoW | no they don't |
| 21:53.10 | Kirkburn|WoW | That's ridicolous |
| 21:53.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | *ridiculous |
| 21:53.49 | Zeal | as before, family, title, major characters, sources, instances, zones.. and so on. |
| 21:54.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | We're talking about bosses ... |
| 21:54.15 | Zeal | nuke them if you want, i'd be more than happy. |
| 21:54.19 | Kirkburn|WoW | Bosses ... |
| 21:54.20 | Zeal | yes, they have them |
| 21:54.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | A minority |
| 21:54.26 | Zeal | as bosses are npcs. |
| 21:54.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | A tiny minority |
| 21:54.42 | pcj | mmm 2 navboxes and a infobox ftw http://www.wowwiki.com/Jarien_and_Sothos |
| 21:54.43 | Kirkburn|WoW | You do browse the same wiki I do, right? |
| 21:54.49 | Zeal | pretty much any notable character has them |
| 21:54.56 | Zeal | which is about 30% of bosses? |
| 21:55.01 | Kirkburn|WoW | Less, I'd say |
| 21:55.03 | WoWTempete | I'm sure Baggins can find information about a boss that he would put in an infobox. |
| 21:55.11 | Zeal | hehe |
| 21:55.12 | Kirkburn|WoW | Much less |
| 21:55.24 | Kirkburn|WoW | Most instance bosses unknown |
| 21:55.27 | WoWTempete | and I mean *every* boss... |
| 21:55.38 | pcj | Every boss? |
| 21:55.43 | WoWTempete | every. |
| 21:55.44 | *** join/#wowwiki kd3 (n=kd3@host-12-173-142-252.nctv.com) |
| 21:55.44 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o kd3] by ChanServ |
| 21:55.45 | WoWTempete | hehe |
| 21:56.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | The only types of bosses that might have them are major lore characters (er, like 5 bosses?), dragons (...) and ... well ... that's it |
| 21:56.33 | pcj | mmm there's more "major" lore characters than 5 bosses |
| 21:56.44 | pcj | i can name like 20 off the top of my head |
| 21:56.45 | Kirkburn|WoW | We don't have family templates, or titles, or sources, or instances or zones on them |
| 21:56.56 | Kirkburn|WoW | That are on the lore char template, pcj |
| 21:57.06 | pcj | Ah |
| 21:57.19 | pcj | Well, most of the major raid bosses could do that then |
| 21:57.23 | pcj | And there's more than 5 of those |
| 21:57.24 | Kirkburn|WoW | http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Main_characters |
| 21:57.36 | Kirkburn|WoW | That's the only one ^ |
| 21:57.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | And even then, they shouldn't be on there, since we have specific strategy pages for them |
| 21:58.00 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, kael's page has several, not evne including some that could be added further |
| 21:58.01 | Kirkburn|WoW | Only the lore pages should have the template |
| 21:58.10 | Kirkburn|WoW | The *strategy* page? |
| 21:58.14 | Zeal | i'd imagine illidan is the same. |
| 21:58.34 | Kirkburn|WoW | http://www.wowwiki.com/Kael%27thas_Sunstrider_%28tactics%29 .. oh look |
| 21:58.37 | Kirkburn|WoW | It doesn't! |
| 21:58.41 | Kirkburn|WoW | Epic phail ;) |
| 21:58.51 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@208-106-104-170.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 21:59.00 | Zeal | erm.. no Kirkburn|WoW, becuase you're not navigating via tactic pages |
| 21:59.07 | Zeal | so you epic fail |
| 21:59.10 | Kirkburn|WoW | We're talking about bosses pages |
| 21:59.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | BOSSES |
| 21:59.14 | Zeal | got nothing to do with it |
| 21:59.14 | Kirkburn|WoW | Not sodding lore |
| 21:59.18 | WoWTempete | omg that template... arrrrrrge |
| 21:59.38 | Kirkburn|WoW | Strategy pages DON'T have that template |
| 21:59.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | LORE pages only |
| 21:59.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | Point hammered yet? |
| 22:00.17 | Zeal | bosses are lore, you're looking at a split off section that deal onyl with tactics, not bosses. kael is still a boss, and thats the entry page for navigation that people are looking at for both lore and strats. |
| 22:00.33 | pcj | I still say it should be tactics that is the main page and lore disambiguated |
| 22:00.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | The navigation will have the strat link, not the freaking lore link |
| 22:00.48 | WoWTempete | I agree with that, pcj |
| 22:00.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | Why the hell would people want the lore page when navigating an instance? |
| 22:00.57 | Zeal | your argument was hanging heavily on how navigation works, yet you'r using an example without is out of the flow of that navigation. |
| 22:01.07 | Kirkburn|WoW | No, YOUR argument does |
| 22:01.15 | pcj | ur moms argument |
| 22:01.18 | Kirkburn|WoW | Mine is based on what the majority of articles look like |
| 22:01.23 | WoWTempete | in my pants! |
| 22:01.24 | Zeal | wtf? no |
| 22:01.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | Which is no nav at the bottom |
| 22:01.54 | Zeal | there's nav there, thats the entry point for it. end of. |
| 22:01.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | To which you're saying the instance nav would be pushed up by the other nav templates |
| 22:02.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | Which don't exist |
| 22:02.05 | pcj | /popcorn |
| 22:02.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | Look you're supposed to be proving to me that the mouse would end up close to the instance template |
| 22:02.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | You haven't :/ |
| 22:02.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | You've merely shown you don't know what most strat pages look like |
| 22:02.58 | pcj | So the point of this whole debate, internal instance nav should be attached to existing infoboxes inside a hidden-by-default DIV instead of anchoring down to the bottom |
| 22:03.16 | pcj | And lore and other navigation boxes which are just fine at the bottom should stay there |
| 22:03.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yes (both can exist) |
| 22:03.33 | WoWTempete | ./agree |
| 22:03.33 | *** join/#wowwiki Krolmor (i=none@189-68-171-191.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 22:03.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | Absolutely |
| 22:03.42 | Krolmor | g'night |
| 22:03.46 | pcj | lol |
| 22:03.50 | pcj | night krolmor |
| 22:03.55 | Krolmor | erm. |
| 22:04.13 | Krolmor | do you guys think it's stupid to have mining/herbalism? (i'm a noob) |
| 22:04.19 | WoWTempete | not at all |
| 22:04.19 | pcj | good money maker... |
| 22:04.20 | Krolmor | since both of them have tracking |
| 22:04.22 | WoWTempete | good way to make money |
| 22:04.24 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah, monies |
| 22:04.42 | pcj | Maybe harder to level than one of them and skinning |
| 22:04.42 | WoWTempete | s'not hard to switch back and forth |
| 22:04.46 | Krolmor | im definitely taking mining, but was stuck between herb and skinning |
| 22:04.56 | WoWTempete | I have herb/ench on my alt |
| 22:05.02 | pcj | But once you're maxed you can just farm whatever's selling for more atm |
| 22:05.22 | Krolmor | it's not that hard to spot stuff glowing around either, is it :p |
| 22:05.29 | *** join/#wowwiki soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:05.54 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, you argument was about having navigation as a show/hide. that would be on the main page. you've thne moved to suggest no, it's on the strats page, which completely destorys that argument, as that's not the way it's naviagted. Plus the fact having the bosses like that will also always belong on the main page. |
| 22:05.58 | pcj | ...well if you're on a flying mount it is |
| 22:06.27 | Krolmor | more money on mining or skinning, though? |
| 22:06.29 | WoWTempete | what?... |
| 22:06.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | The boss list idea is to appear on all infoboxes |
| 22:06.33 | Krolmor | sorry, herbalism or skinning |
| 22:06.47 | WoWTempete | I don't recall him arguing about the Main Page... just using it as an example... |
| 22:06.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | Lore pages have nothing to do with this, because they're nothing to do with instances |
| 22:07.00 | Zeal | ... lore is everything Kirkburn|WoW |
| 22:07.11 | Zeal | which has everything to do with isntances and bosses |
| 22:07.19 | Zeal | jsut not gameplay guides and such, |
| 22:07.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | How many different dicussions do you want me to answer, or can we stick to the actual discussion? |
| 22:07.51 | WoWTempete | ok, Zeal, you need to take a step back and realise that most people, *most*, don't put as much weight on lore as you and Baggins... |
| 22:08.25 | Kirkburn|WoW | At no point were lore pages ever brought up previous to you a few lines back |
| 22:09.17 | Kirkburn|WoW | I don't even know what relevance they have, since our instance navigation pages have always ignored lore pages when they exist |
| 22:09.17 | WoWTempete | To most people, lore is a fun little meta-game that has nothing to do with *playing* world of warcraft. |
| 22:09.17 | pcj | lol blood knights = pallies |
| 22:09.40 | pcj | ^ even blizzard doesn't care about lore |
| 22:09.49 | WoWTempete | hehehe |
| 22:10.21 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, they weren't brought up, because they are everything. they're the main page, the cover all aspects of warcraft except the actual gameplay. |
| 22:10.22 | Kirkburn|WoW | Hmm, I'm still for having lore as the main page |
| 22:10.36 | Zeal | so it's is extremyl obvious we're talking about the main article. |
| 22:10.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | And there was me thinking this whole thing was about instance navigation templates. What a fool I was. |
| 22:11.10 | WoWTempete | ... |
| 22:11.20 | Kirkburn|WoW | My psychic abilities must be on the fritz. |
| 22:11.22 | Zeal | instances are as much about lore as they are gameplay |
| 22:11.39 | WoWTempete | That help? |
| 22:12.03 | WoWTempete | bullshit, Zeal, reread what I said to you, earlier. |
| 22:12.23 | pcj | psychotic abilities* |
| 22:12.45 | Zeal | so get it straight, and say you're talking about strategy guide sections only, or say you're talking everything. |
| 22:13.00 | WoWTempete | I'm so confused... |
| 22:13.00 | Zeal | bullshit? care to point it out? never claiemd otherwise. |
| 22:13.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, you're taking this in so many different directions, we can't keep up |
| 22:13.34 | WoWTempete | No, not confused... just angry at the very non-linear fashion in which you argue, Zeal |
| 22:13.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | This whole thing was about how do we deal with instance nav templates |
| 22:14.03 | Zeal | because arguements never are linear. |
| 22:14.04 | WoWTempete | in fact, it's so non-linear, one might call it multi-dimensional... |
| 22:14.34 | Zeal | adress one aspect of it, will often change several others. |
| 22:15.05 | Zeal | yes i know what the topic was Kirkburn|WoW, and we're still very much on it. |
| 22:15.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | I love a good "discussion" |
| 22:15.28 | Zeal | hm.. what to title those any/optional ones? |
| 22:16.13 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, we're still on it, in the sense of a iceshelf, broken off the artic and now in the middle of kenya |
| 22:16.15 | Zeal | meh.. "other" will do i guess. |
| 22:16.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | It's all going to pot around us, and we're wondering where the hell we are |
| 22:16.45 | WoWTempete | I think the only reason disambiguations were mentioned were as evidence to the importance or lack thereof for the lore information being in the infobox template |
| 22:16.49 | WoWTempete | am I wrong? |
| 22:16.50 | pcj | How does an ice shelf starting on the sea in the middle of the arctic make it to inland kenya? |
| 22:17.01 | Zeal | just establishing a fact that apprently was confusing the matter, so relevent and on topic, yes. |
| 22:17.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, I don't know, ask Zeal :P |
| 22:17.22 | Kirkburn|WoW | It only confused us when you brought it up |
| 22:17.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | I doubt any of us had it even enter ours minds |
| 22:17.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | *our |
| 22:17.38 | WoWTempete | Just, you know, when you post... make snse... and defend your argument with logical explanations... |
| 22:17.40 | Zeal | you brought up the distinction, i clarified. |
| 22:17.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | Jaws dropped... |
| 22:18.04 | WoWTempete | Not your usual "no" or "this is how it is" |
| 22:18.09 | WoWTempete | allo soufron |
| 22:19.21 | Zeal | WoWTempete, "this is how it is" would be giving an explantion, no? and "no" i've only used as my "wtf, hold on and let me type out something longer" response. |
| 22:19.41 | Kirkburn|WoW | To summarize my position ... horizontal nav template at the bottom, in addition to show/hide boss list on the infoboxes, plus prev/next for instances that support it |
| 22:20.02 | WoWTempete | I can agree with that. |
| 22:20.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | (Which would require additions to the instance and npc infoboxes) |
| 22:20.30 | Zeal | mhm, i know your position Kirkburn|WoW. |
| 22:20.33 | WoWTempete | Zeal, by "think is how it is" I mean your statements like "The sky is purple" |
| 22:20.48 | WoWTempete | and Zeal, that was all we thought we were discussing... |
| 22:20.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | Hey, it is in the wetland atm WoWTempete, look up |
| 22:21.05 | Kirkburn|WoW | *Wetlands |
| 22:21.07 | WoWTempete | hehe |
| 22:21.46 | WoWTempete | Yes, so the proper explanation for "The sky is purple" would be "in wetlands" ... make sense? |
| 22:21.49 | Gourra | speaking of vertical -> horizontal templates: [[User:Gourra/Sandbox/4]] |
| 22:21.55 | Gourra | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Gourra/Sandbox/4 |
| 22:21.57 | Zeal | so you expect me to now argue against you saying me stating facts is actually me telling lies without evidence simply because you don't agree? w/e |
| 22:22.03 | Kirkburn|WoW | This conversation just had to happen whilst I got banned from another wiki, didn't it :P |
| 22:22.17 | WoWTempete | hehe |
| 22:22.24 | Zeal | lol? rational wiki Kirkburn|WoW? |
| 22:22.27 | WoWTempete | Yeah, tell us about that :P |
| 22:22.28 | Kirkburn|WoW | lol, no |
| 22:22.34 | WoWTempete | conservapedia? |
| 22:22.37 | Kirkburn|WoW | Some idiot going power mad |
| 22:22.43 | WoWTempete | oh, well that's normal. |
| 22:22.45 | pcj | Ban him from WoWWiki |
| 22:22.48 | kd3 | like it's tough to get banned from conservapedia? |
| 22:22.49 | WoWTempete | lol |
| 22:22.50 | Kirkburn|WoW | clubpenguin.wikia.com |
| 22:23.04 | WoWTempete | we want links to the talk pages... |
| 22:23.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | Check RC, TurtleShroom be the name |
| 22:24.28 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, problem is, I still don't know how the lore pages are relevant |
| 22:24.59 | Kirkburn|WoW | If anything, we could use the opportunity to expand the horizontal templates with Name (lore) links |
| 22:25.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | e.g. like [[Trolls]] ([[playable]]) on the races list |
| 22:25.27 | WoWTempete | holy crap... wikia *is* slow |
| 22:27.47 | pcj | Playable is a red link there... |
| 22:28.09 | Kirkburn|WoW | Like hell I'm going to type it all out |
| 22:31.01 | *** join/#wowwiki MentalPower|AFK (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 22:32.23 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, it was trying to get home :( |
| 22:32.36 | Zeal | okay.. can we look at it like this please. We have main pages, and if the section is big, we have strategy pages, which are merely guides for how to kill the npc. the navigation templates correctly move through the main pages, so that's where they exist primarily. They contain everything, lore, gameplay info etc. |
| 22:32.59 | Zeal | If you want to suggest that all navigation for instances and bosses by pass the main articles and go straight to strats, then say that. I think that's a bad idea, as people don't naviagate them purely for strats. they may want other gameplay info in regard to the boss as well as the lore surrounding it, which does encompass the character as a boss as well as the role and existance in instances. |
| 22:33.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, they already do bypass the lore |
| 22:33.20 | pcj | strategy articles can navigate to other strategy articles |
| 22:33.25 | pcj | lore articles can navigate to lore articles |
| 22:33.32 | pcj | for any given npc lore can navigate to strategy |
| 22:33.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | The instances navs have never at any point navigated to lore pages |
| 22:33.54 | Zeal | well that's a radical change from the existing navigation and would require two sets. |
| 22:34.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | "<Kirkburn|WoW> The instances navs have never at any point navigated to lore pages" <--- ahem |
| 22:34.29 | Zeal | ... the lore is in the main article |
| 22:34.34 | Zeal | thats where the navs navigate to |
| 22:34.41 | pcj | ...which navs |
| 22:34.48 | Zeal | instances, bosses. |
| 22:34.50 | Kirkburn|WoW | We only split lore and strat when the article gets too long |
| 22:34.55 | pcj | give me actual links |
| 22:35.02 | *** join/#wowwiki khangg (n=khangg@dhcp-0-17-9a-33-6d-f5.cpe.quickclic.net) |
| 22:35.06 | Zeal | pcj, all of them |
| 22:35.08 | pcj | talking metaphysically is where we're running into icebergs |
| 22:35.15 | pcj | then link an example |
| 22:35.16 | Zeal | give me a link that shows otherwise, i've never seen one. |
| 22:35.23 | Kirkburn|WoW | w. t. f. |
| 22:36.37 | WoWTempete | Zeal, a link to the lore page should be at the top blurb on the article, e.g. "[[Baron Rivendare]] is a boss in the [[Stratholme]] instance." |
| 22:36.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, look at Illidan |
| 22:36.49 | WoWTempete | other than that it doesn't need to be linked at the top of the page |
| 22:37.08 | Kirkburn|WoW | You brought him up, now look at the fucking page before making such an idiotic comment again >_> |
| 22:37.19 | Gourra | speaking of Baron Rivendare, nav template looks...odd on http://www.wowwiki.com/Baron_Rivendare |
| 22:37.44 | Dotted | lolwut? |
| 22:38.17 | Kirkburn|WoW | Gourra, infobox should be on the right |
| 22:38.35 | WoWTempete | o.m.g. Zeal, you just made Kirkburn|WoW swear... |
| 22:38.40 | Zeal | what? WoWTempete, that's on the strat page, not the main article. please for christ sake, stop calling it a lore page. |
| 22:38.40 | Kirkburn|WoW | I think pcj did them all that way earlier, they need to be swapped around :) |
| 22:39.02 | pcj | Well, it was longer before I chopped off live strat |
| 22:39.12 | Kirkburn|WoW | :) |
| 22:39.14 | pcj | But I don't really care to change it just to change it again later |
| 22:39.26 | WoWTempete | Yes it would be on the strat page, that's what I'm talking about. My example was fucking hypothetical, and it's a "lore page" if it's content is lore, whether or not it's the main page, so get the fuck over it. |
| 22:39.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | Can go with that assuming we change this soon(ish) |
| 22:39.55 | pcj | Hopefully we do |
| 22:40.06 | Gourra | Blizzard soon? |
| 22:40.14 | Zeal | the content is more than lore is the point WoWTempete, so put up with me telling you you're wrong. |
| 22:40.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | What direction are we going again? |
| 22:40.36 | WoWTempete | AHHHH |
| 22:40.39 | pcj | Back down the Nile |
| 22:40.42 | WoWTempete | AHHHHHH |
| 22:40.43 | Kirkburn|WoW | Stick to the topic, Zeal |
| 22:41.22 | Kirkburn|WoW | See Illidan and the associated strat page. That's how they all work. |
| 22:41.24 | Kirkburn|WoW | All of them. |
| 22:41.41 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, with illidan, there's no boss nav on his main page, which is a problem as i said. His strats does, which link directly to his strats. so yes, there's a need for seperate ones. |
| 22:41.43 | Kirkburn|WoW | They've also always worked like that, ever since we split strat and lore page for long articles. |
| 22:42.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | Okay, going to say this for the last time. We don't care about the lore pages. This conversation is not about the lore pages. |
| 22:42.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | Instance nav does not, in any way currently involve them. |
| 22:42.35 | PanSola | we don't care about them! delete them all!!! |
| 22:42.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | :O |
| 22:42.39 | WoWTempete | hehe |
| 22:42.41 | Zeal | i'd never seen the templates change to accomodate that split Kirkburn|WoW, but seeing that it has, it seems that issues was overlooked. |
| 22:42.58 | Kirkburn|WoW | Like well over a year ago, Zeal |
| 22:43.23 | Zeal | you've moved it to talking about the main articles Kirkburn|WoW, as a) you never specified it would be strats only and b) it cuases issues to do so. |
| 22:43.24 | pcj | I'm just glad Baggins isn't in here |
| 22:43.35 | Zeal | so it's highly relvenent and not at all off topic. |
| 22:43.40 | WoWTempete | If by his main page, Zeal, you're talking about the page that contains lore, then, no, there does not need to be any detailed fricking navboxes about instances on it... |
| 22:43.56 | Zeal | yes, there does |
| 22:44.01 | pcj | Prove it |
| 22:44.26 | Krolmor | erm. I'm deciding between two classes, either rogue or hunter... given I have a goup of warrior, elem shaman and mage, which one of the two would be of more utility to the group? |
| 22:44.37 | pcj | hunter |
| 22:44.41 | pcj | they actually have a buff |
| 22:44.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | Hunters are awesome |
| 22:44.53 | Zeal | because ther provide game info, not just lore, and they for both cases, the desire to navigate to boss and instance articles is exactly the same. |
| 22:45.10 | Krolmor | they get no love :( but ty, i'll stick to my hunter, i just needed that little bit of assurance you know :) |
| 22:45.11 | Zeal | *they |
| 22:45.41 | pcj | pretty much anything over rogue, really |
| 22:45.49 | Zeal | hunters are awesome for pve only imo. but go for w/e you think. |
| 22:46.07 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, and how exactly does this matter? What do you think needs to change? |
| 22:46.08 | Zeal | the choice vs. a rogue isn't exactly a good one from what i've heard, lol |
| 22:46.25 | Gourra | Zeal, your ability to change topics is astounding |
| 22:46.57 | pcj | I think we should relocate the navbox discussion back to the VP so we can try to process zeal's mutterings over time |
| 22:47.06 | Kirkburn|WoW | I will say this ... if we get around to adding a horizontal nav, the lore page can be added to the link, and placed on the lore page too |
| 22:47.15 | WoWTempete | It sounds like what you want is an entirely different navbox |
| 22:47.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | However, they're not atm, because there's no space |
| 22:47.39 | Gourra | Kirkburn|WoW: something like this? http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Gourra/Sandbox/4 |
| 22:47.50 | Gourra | upper left goes on instance related bosses |
| 22:48.13 | WoWTempete | otherwise, I might say put it in both infoboxes, but in the strat box make it [[strategy]] ([[lore]]) |
| 22:48.20 | WoWTempete | vice versa in the lroe boxes |
| 22:48.21 | Kirkburn|WoW | Nah, we were thinking of integrating the boss list into the infobox as a hidden list |
| 22:48.21 | Zeal | that there should be two sets Kirkburn|WoW, one bypasses the main article and goes to strats only (can also use anchors directly to relevent section for unsplit pages then) which only gets used on strat pages, why the generic one is used on everything else. or my prefered choice, use one generic one, which never bypasses and is used on all. |
| 22:48.28 | pcj | the design of the navbox is not the issue, it's on which pages it goes |
| 22:48.31 | Gourra | hmkay Kirkburn|WoW |
| 22:48.51 | Kirkburn|WoW | Gourra, with the other bottom navbox as well |
| 22:49.03 | WoWTempete | I'm saying incorporate that into the infobox, actually |
| 22:49.25 | Gourra | so something like making a collapsible list in the infobox? |
| 22:49.34 | Gourra | collapsable |
| 22:49.37 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, so you're saying it should ... be like it currently is |
| 22:49.41 | Gourra | or something, I'm not native to english |
| 22:49.42 | Zeal | <@Kirkburn|WoW> I will say this ... if we get around to adding a horizontal nav, the lore page can be added to the link, and placed on the lore page too <-- can you explain that a bit more please, not following. |
| 22:49.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | A single ... generic ... list |
| 22:49.45 | WoWTempete | exactly what we were talking about Gourra |
| 22:49.49 | Gourra | right-o. |
| 22:50.13 | Kirkburn|WoW | Gourra, mind if I quickly tweak that page to show Zeal something |
| 22:50.21 | Gourra | Go ahead |
| 22:50.50 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, reload, see bottom nav, first link |
| 22:51.13 | WoWTempete | In the infobox on the STRAT page... this is what I'd like to see: [[Baron rivendare (tactics)|Baron Rivendare]] ([[Baron Rivendare|lore]]) |
| 22:51.14 | Zeal | basically atm Kirkburn|WoW, you're locking people out of navigating bosses and instances in that way if strats aren't what they want, be better to offer an alternative, or having it work for everyone. |
| 22:51.21 | WoWTempete | And the opposite on the lore page's infobox. |
| 22:51.23 | Zeal | which page? |
| 22:51.27 | WoWTempete | Does that make sense? |
| 22:51.28 | Kirkburn|WoW | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Gourra/Sandbox/4 |
| 22:52.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | WoWTempete, in the header? |
| 22:52.12 | Zeal | that works Kirkburn|WoW |
| 22:52.14 | Kirkburn|WoW | Or the nav? |
| 22:52.26 | WoWTempete | in the boss nav section of the infobox |
| 22:52.41 | WoWTempete | that way Zeal gets his cross-navigation, and it doesn't take up too much space |
| 22:52.45 | Kirkburn|WoW | Ah, same as what I just did for Zeal |
| 22:53.45 | WoWTempete | Great minds think alike. :P |
| 22:53.48 | Zeal | but the problem is, if we're merging into the infobox, which one do we use? do we force the infobox to split, provide a param to do it based on what page we're on, not merge then and keep them seperate or just use a generic one? |
| 22:54.05 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'd keep both |
| 22:54.10 | WoWTempete | The tactics and lore pages should have the same infobox, though... |
| 22:54.48 | WoWTempete | I'm nto sure I understand what you mean there |
| 22:54.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | Same as we already do on http://www.wowwiki.com/Karazhan |
| 22:55.11 | Kirkburn|WoW | That has a collapsed list of raids and a full list at the bottom |
| 22:55.18 | Gourra | ooo |
| 22:55.23 | Kirkburn|WoW | Almost identical in ideology in fact |
| 22:55.30 | WoWTempete | well, yes, that's the infobox concept |
| 22:55.31 | Gourra | something to work on |
| 22:56.22 | Zeal | refering to bosses in this part Kirkburn|WoW, instances aren't an issue it seems. how would you "keep them both"? |
| 22:56.25 | WoWTempete | wait... I think I'm lost, now |
| 22:56.34 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, same way Kara does |
| 22:56.56 | WoWTempete | keep both the navbox and the infobox? Is that what you're saying? |
| 22:56.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | It has a drop down list of raids in the infobox, and also has the navbox at the bottom |
| 22:57.08 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yeah |
| 22:57.19 | WoWTempete | well, in the instance's article, that makes sense |
| 22:57.29 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, as i said, i'm refering to bosses. :p |
| 22:57.32 | WoWTempete | because one might want to nav between the instance itself, or between all instances |
| 22:57.49 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, not sure how you expect me to explain it any differently |
| 22:57.57 | WoWTempete | But if you want to do something like that in the boss page, I don't think that's a good idea. |
| 22:58.14 | WoWTempete | The whole point to putting it in the infobox was to get rid of th enavbox, right? |
| 22:58.29 | pcj | Right |
| 22:58.33 | Kirkburn|WoW | The one at the top yeah, but some people are dead set on having one at the bottom too ... |
| 22:59.07 | WoWTempete | well if we merge the information into the nav box, we don't need either |
| 22:59.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | I can't entirely blame them, since we do use that design around much of the wiki |
| 22:59.26 | WoWTempete | *nod* |
| 22:59.41 | WoWTempete | You and I have discussed navbox relevance and placement in the past |
| 22:59.59 | Zeal | ok, what you showed me in the sandbox, is a current boss nav which navs via strats, and a new boss nav that handles everything else. they're seperate. the whole discussion was about how to eliminate the existing boss nav by mergining it into the infobox. so unless you have a new solution, that's merely proven my point that what i was saying was a issue, ruined your previous arguments. |
| 23:00.12 | pcj | 4 lines = IRC wall of text |
| 23:00.32 | WoWTempete | Zeal, he wasn't talking about the *whole* box. Just the formatting of the first link in the box. |
| 23:01.05 | Kirkburn|WoW | Oh for goodness sake Zeal |
| 23:01.08 | Zeal | hm.. |
| 23:01.10 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'm attempting to compromise |
| 23:01.24 | Zeal | shush and calm down :P |
| 23:01.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | People want one at the bottom ... they can sodding well have one. People want one at the top ... they can have one too! |
| 23:01.51 | Zeal | so how that link is done, is how you'd like to do it in the infobox? |
| 23:02.04 | Kirkburn|WoW | General idea, I guess |
| 23:02.06 | *** part/#wowwiki Krolmor (i=none@189-68-171-191.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:02.15 | WoWTempete | Zeal, are you worried about which navbox to use in the main article, if that article contains both lore and tactics? |
| 23:02.55 | Kirkburn|WoW | I would say assume that any article that isn't specifically lore only is a "strat" page in terms of instance nav |
| 23:02.57 | Zeal | WoWTempete, not now that you pointed out my mistake, but previous that would have been an issue i was going to point out later ;) |
| 23:03.25 | WoWTempete | I'd say in that case, if lore has precedence as main article content, then the infobox should also have lore preference. So, those articles should have the lore version, rathe than the tactics version |
| 23:03.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'm probably up to about 5 :P |
| 23:03.52 | *** join/#wowwiki Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 23:03.58 | Zeal | but honestly, new issue.. and we're going back to one you don't like. it's not a lore article, it's an "everything but strats" article. can we not have it the other way around, so the link in brackets is "(strats)" or tactics or w/e? |
| 23:04.18 | Kirkburn|WoW | Because it's a instance nav template |
| 23:04.23 | Kirkburn|WoW | Not a lore nav template |
| 23:04.28 | Zeal | instances are lore too.. |
| 23:04.34 | Kirkburn|WoW | ... |
| 23:04.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | Hello brick wall |
| 23:05.04 | Zeal | yes, apparently you're looking at and listening to one Kirkburn|WoW ;) |
| 23:05.38 | WoWTempete | zeal it would be shown that way because that's *not* what one would expect in the tactics page, so it needs to be made obvious |
| 23:05.48 | Kirkburn|WoW | That bottom instance nav template can go on both the lore and strat pages, there's nothing restricting it |
| 23:05.58 | WoWTempete | The lore page would have tactics spelled out that way, and the tactics page gets lore spelled out that way |
| 23:06.18 | WoWTempete | I'm thinking we could even do that in the infobox, Kirkburn|WoW |
| 23:06.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | The navbox could say "[Instance] strategy links" to make it really obvious |
| 23:06.37 | Zeal | okay, can we look at it properly please. the tactics are merely a split off section of the parent article. you're giving the section priority, in all cases, over the main article. |
| 23:06.45 | Kirkburn|WoW | Oh, must we look at it properly? |
| 23:06.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | I thought this was a gameshow |
| 23:07.20 | Zeal | you're saying because you think instances and bosses have nothing to do with lore (lol) that they deserve that priority because people expect it. |
| 23:07.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | (yes that's what you get for being patronising) |
| 23:07.33 | WoWTempete | well, because frankly, we don't exactly think tactics is what needs getting sectioned off, but we're wililng to accept that lore take the priority in the main article |
| 23:08.13 | Zeal | split off lore if you really want, seems ridiculous to me, but atleast then how you want to do the links makes sense. |
| 23:08.25 | WoWTempete | and for chrissakes, we're not giving it priority in all cases. I've said... *REPEATEDLY* that it would be opposite |
| 23:08.37 | Zeal | how so WoWTempete? |
| 23:08.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | The bottom instance nav ... I 'm not really sure it needs to change between the lore and strat pages, so long as it's obvious that the template is about strategies. The (lore) link would be bolded and unlinked, so it should be obvious that the other link with the name is the strategy |
| 23:08.47 | Zeal | and i think you only implied it once. |
| 23:09.01 | pcj | this "discussion" is fun to follow while attempting to play wow at the same time |
| 23:09.05 | WoWTempete | see, I'm not talking about a navbox at all, Kirkburn|WoW |
| 23:09.12 | Kirkburn|WoW | kks |
| 23:09.17 | WoWTempete | yeah, Kirkburn|WoW and I are both still in game :P |
| 23:09.19 | Kirkburn|WoW | pcj, I've given up :( |
| 23:09.27 | Zeal | neither am i WoWTempete |
| 23:09.58 | pcj | How about we just pretend Zeal's argument has no merit and move on with any other problems in the way of implementing the merger of infoboxes and navboxes for instances |
| 23:09.59 | Kirkburn|WoW | Wait, so what are we talking about now? |
| 23:10.07 | WoWTempete | I'm down for that, pcj |
| 23:10.16 | Zeal | hoenstly, with how you want things to be done, and what Kirkburn|WoW linked me, there's no actual reason for the bottom ones to exist anyways, so i'm not even going over again why i don't think they should all be in the infoboxes. |
| 23:10.19 | WoWTempete | considering he's outnumbered 3 to 1 |
| 23:11.12 | Kirkburn|WoW | What kind of weird compromise is that? I can't have it all my way, but I won't have it partially my way, so you can have it entirely your way? |
| 23:11.15 | Zeal | this never was a vote, discuss or don't, don't matter. |
| 23:11.50 | WoWTempete | That's called taking his ball and going home. Which is fine by me as long as he shushes up. |
| 23:12.05 | pcj | But...we inflated the ball for him |
| 23:12.12 | WoWTempete | hehe |
| 23:12.22 | Zeal | what Kirkburn|WoW? 1) not having them at the bottom at all is actually my way, i hate them. 2) it's got nothing to do with it, i'm jsut pointing out with what you want to do, you're doing nothing but repeating yourself needless at the bottom. |
| 23:12.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | I still personally like the idea of having the bottom instance nav too, it's a minimum of work and doesn't cause any problems |
| 23:12.43 | Kirkburn|WoW | This entire time you didn't want the bottom nav? |
| 23:12.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | How did I miss that? |
| 23:12.50 | pcj | zeal, just use action=raw and you don't have to worry about any navigation |
| 23:12.53 | Kirkburn|WoW | Did you say that? |
| 23:12.53 | WoWTempete | I missed it too |
| 23:13.07 | WoWTempete | I need chocolate |
| 23:13.28 | Kirkburn|WoW | It's not really needless repitition, as it's in keeping with the style of the wiki |
| 23:13.54 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, apparently my repeated expression of hatred of them and suggestion of remvoving them has gone unoticed, despite us and many others having this discussion countless times before? wow |
| 23:14.26 | pcj | wowwiki, actually |
| 23:14.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | At no point did it actually seem to become apparent in the past hour, Zeal |
| 23:14.39 | Zeal | the only reason i'm accepting their existance is a compromise, because i know it wasn't going anywhere with aiming for their removal. |
| 23:14.49 | Zeal | ^ |
| 23:15.07 | Kirkburn|WoW | Sorry, hour? Make that 3 hours. |
| 23:15.08 | Kirkburn|WoW | 3. |
| 23:15.11 | Zeal | lol |
| 23:15.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | "because i know it wasn't going anywhere with aiming for their removal." ... we don't even have them now, so how could we remove them ... |
| 23:15.49 | Zeal | ? |
| 23:15.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | But of course, I forget, you think categories are the way to navigate |
| 23:16.06 | Zeal | ofc |
| 23:16.27 | Kirkburn|WoW | Why have one click when you can have two |
| 23:16.27 | Zeal | but since when did attacking my position on other things become relevent? |
| 23:16.41 | *** join/#wowwiki dJe781 (n=dje781@ves78-1-89-85-60-113.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 23:16.57 | Kirkburn|WoW | I'm just completely confused as to where you stand on anything |
| 23:17.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | Anything at all. |
| 23:17.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | What have you even been arguing for? |
| 23:18.07 | WoWTempete | I'm arguing for anisette toast |
| 23:18.14 | WoWTempete | and chocolate hazelnut gelato |
| 23:18.19 | WoWTempete | and a hot cup of tea |
| 23:18.20 | Kirkburn|WoW | Arguing against all of our suggestions isn't helpful if you don't present your actual base reasoning |
| 23:18.34 | Kirkburn|WoW | :O |
| 23:19.18 | Zeal | everyones heard it all before, so i don't even go over those things anymore, i just put up with how things are. I'm not to blame if you've forgotten where i ultimately stand on things, but i'm sure i'd get complaints and the same attitudes if i kept restating them. choose your poison apparently. |
| 23:19.23 | Gourra | okay..I think I'm getting close to a "collapsible list of bosses in infobox" thing |
| 23:19.34 | Zeal | i said what i wanted at the start. |
| 23:19.41 | Zeal | want me to say again? |
| 23:19.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | Gourra, cool |
| 23:20.16 | Zeal | it's slightly changed, merely because you brought up a new issue for me to adapt it to, which is wonderful. |
| 23:20.56 | Zeal | i'm talking about the start of this discussion.. |
| 23:21.17 | Kirkburn|WoW | The start of what? The conversation evolved from something completely different, and you very very early on stated "<Zeal> and to be consistant, a boss nav template would be at the bottom of the page, on boss pages only." |
| 23:22.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | Also: <Zeal> anyways, what i'm suggesting is put immediate/important/sequential nav in the summary, as it's highly relevant to that page, not because it offers naviagation. eg, at the bottom of a boss page, put previou and next bosses (irregardless of how many that may be), the instance they're in, the zone too if applicable. then have a full boss nav at the bottom. |
| 23:22.20 | Kirkburn|WoW | And irregardless isn't a word, meant to point that out to you previously |
| 23:22.45 | Zeal | i know |
| 23:23.05 | Kirkburn|WoW | Well I've seen you use it more than 3 times |
| 23:23.07 | Gourra | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Gourra/Sandbox/4 |
| 23:23.09 | Zeal | this convo evolved fro mexactly what you asked, wtf are you on about? |
| 23:23.15 | Zeal | force of habits > * |
| 23:23.17 | Gourra | now I just can't find out what breaks the tabs at the top... |
| 23:23.42 | Kirkburn|WoW | How the conversation started "<Kirkburn|WoW> pcj, why do I keep reminding you ... infoboxes are *furthest right*" |
| 23:24.03 | Zeal | the first quote was about consistancy, not what i want. the second is true to what i want, but as i said, i put up with the navs, so i tend to work around them now. that was a compromise. |
| 23:24.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | Three hours ago. We changed topics (a lot, due to names well known). |
| 23:24.17 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, semantics, why are you being an ass? |
| 23:24.27 | WoWTempete | Gourra, I likes it! |
| 23:24.33 | Gourra | Yay! Thanks |
| 23:24.40 | Kirkburn|WoW | Me too! |
| 23:24.41 | Kirkburn|WoW | Nice work |
| 23:24.55 | Gourra | Now can some code-ish people find out why the tabs at the top breaks? the "Edit", "Discussion" etc? |
| 23:24.55 | winkiller | lol loading graphics |
| 23:24.57 | winkiller | but yes, looks fine |
| 23:24.58 | Gourra | it breaks for me at least |
| 23:25.03 | WoWTempete | Now, we just need an infobox on the main/lore page that have the hideable section, like that, but instead have (tactics) |
| 23:25.04 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, I'm being an "ass", because you've made me spend hours wading through a lot of bullshit |
| 23:25.05 | pcj | Should be hidden by default |
| 23:25.13 | Gourra | k, sec pcj |
| 23:25.14 | Zeal | looks like you've got soem div issues somewhere Gourra, screwing up the layout : / |
| 23:25.22 | Gourra | I know |
| 23:25.24 | Zeal | ah, lol |
| 23:25.38 | WoWTempete | dunno if it needs to be, pcj... it's super short |
| 23:25.52 | pcj | For that instance |
| 23:25.57 | Gourra | boss list hidden |
| 23:25.59 | Gourra | now..working on div |
| 23:26.20 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, bullshit? sure, you've hcanged your mind, brought up new issues for consideration and coem to a new conclusion. apparently me doing the same is bullshit. so yeah, i've put up with you "bullshit" for 3 hours too |
| 23:26.44 | Kirkburn|WoW | Fun, eh |
| 23:26.52 | Gourra | okay, I think I got it now |
| 23:26.59 | Zeal | was for me. |
| 23:27.12 | Gourra | Check again |
| 23:27.17 | Kirkburn|WoW | What's wrong with changing my mind? |
| 23:27.21 | Zeal | nothing |
| 23:27.24 | Zeal | it's great |
| 23:27.25 | Kirkburn|WoW | Better than changing the goalposts all the time |
| 23:27.32 | Zeal | apparently you live by double standards though. |
| 23:27.39 | Kirkburn|WoW | Oh fuck you Zeal |
| 23:27.57 | pcj | oh sht |
| 23:28.54 | Zeal | if i change my mind, i get bitched at for not being clear, confusing people, and putting them through pointless "bullshit" |
| 23:29.10 | WoWTempete | Because you make no fricking sense. |
| 23:29.48 | Zeal | Gourra, apart from what i've expressed near the end of this discussion, i like it. |
| 23:29.57 | Gourra | Thanks |
| 23:30.03 | WoWTempete | You jump all over the place, argue on misunderstood information that you don't bother to verify, and your explanations are unclear and often lacking |
| 23:30.32 | WoWTempete | We need a fricking roadmap in order to have a discussion with you, it's nuts. |
| 23:30.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | If you make giant mistakes Zeal, apologise for them, don't carry on as if nothing happened |
| 23:30.53 | pcj | And your breath smells |
| 23:30.57 | Zeal | great wowtempete, apparently everything i say is invalid simply because you don't agree with it and can't follow a discussion that is forced to adapt because of new issues to be taken into consideration. |
| 23:31.19 | WoWTempete | and you use fucking red herring arguments like that |
| 23:31.21 | Kirkburn|WoW | Sorry Gourra :P |
| 23:31.57 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, i've nothing to apologize for. but i clearly pointed out where WoWTempete noticed the mistake i made, don't get why people seem to think i don't own up to my mistakes. |
| 23:32.12 | Kirkburn|WoW | "i've nothing to apologize for" <-- here's the problem |
| 23:32.26 | WoWTempete | well, if your'e the only one who thinks you do, that should point something out to you. |
| 23:32.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | You wasted all our times pointing out the obvious to you, yet what do we get? Nothing. |
| 23:33.24 | pcj | Candy! |
| 23:33.35 | WoWTempete | I get kisses :) |
| 23:33.53 | pcj | Are they wet? |
| 23:33.55 | Zeal | nothing red herring about it. you've tiched nad moaned about how you can't keep up with changing issues, all on the same topic, all relevent and important to the topic at hand in order to reach an conclusion. you've also shown that when i have explained myself, you simply dimiss it because you don't agree. if you don't agree, fine, i don't have a problem with that, but that's no right to start criticising me. |
| 23:34.04 | Kirkburn|WoW | If they're from Bogey, probably, pcj |
| 23:34.09 | WoWTempete | hehehe |
| 23:34.14 | WoWTempete | BogIE |
| 23:34.30 | Kirkburn|WoW | Dammit, I changed my mind after typing it |
| 23:34.35 | WoWTempete | hehe |
| 23:35.11 | Zeal | Kirkburn|WoW, the only mistake i made was much later on, and if you can't deal with people not understanding something you say or missing a key point, then why do you even try to have a discussion? |
| 23:35.16 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, if you have time, please reread the log and maybe you'll realise why |
| 23:35.31 | Kirkburn|WoW | christ almighty |
| 23:35.38 | Kirkburn|WoW | Reread that sentence |
| 23:35.43 | Kirkburn|WoW | Do you not see what's wrong with it? |
| 23:35.54 | Kirkburn|WoW | The first part is not tied to the second |
| 23:35.55 | WoWTempete | Zeal, Kirkburn|WoW let it fucking go for tonight. Sleep on the discussion, and give me my boyfriend back, so I can play WoW with him and we can be happy. |
| 23:36.04 | Kirkburn|WoW | Your mistake was HUGE |
| 23:36.06 | pcj | Zeal is your boyfriend? |
| 23:36.14 | Kirkburn|WoW | It was nothing to do with misunderstanding |
| 23:36.34 | Zeal | is was me misunderstanding what you meant Kirkburn|WoW, that was it. |
| 23:36.35 | Kirkburn|WoW | We were telling you what you were stating was wrong. We even gave examples! |
| 23:36.46 | Zeal | and thanks to WoWTempete it didn't last long. |
| 23:36.53 | Kirkburn|WoW | The only time you admitted it was after coazing it out of you. |
| 23:36.59 | Kirkburn|WoW | *coaxing |
| 23:37.20 | Kirkburn|WoW | :P |
| 23:37.47 | Kirkburn|WoW | naturally |
| 23:37.55 | WoWTempete | please do, Gourra |
| 23:38.08 | *** join/#wowwiki khangg (n=khangg@dhcp-0-17-9a-33-6d-f5.cpe.quickclic.net) |
| 23:38.15 | Zeal | if you think you were telling me i was wrong, then you're refering to soemthing else you consdier a mistake, as i put a question to you because of the mistake. i was right, just the question was invalidated because of the mistake i made. |
| 23:40.44 | Gourra | So I heard the weather was lovely in Siberia today. |
| 23:41.02 | Kirkburn|WoW | Zeal, you thought instance nav templates linked to lore pages ... remember? |
| 23:41.04 | sacarasc | better than here |
| 23:41.10 | Kirkburn|WoW | Icy :P |
| 23:41.22 | Zeal | i said they link to the main article |
| 23:41.30 | Gourra | or like a lich would've said, "chilling" |
| 23:41.48 | *** join/#wowwiki ManarD- (i=chickhun@89.43.175.47) |
| 23:41.48 | Zeal | i also said i had not seen that ones that had been split, had changed. |
| 23:41.59 | Kirkburn|WoW | <Zeal> ... the lore is in the main article |
| 23:41.59 | Kirkburn|WoW | <Zeal> thats where the navs navigate to |
| 23:42.32 | Zeal | and..? |
| 23:43.21 | Kirkburn|WoW | And ... that |
| 23:44.19 | Kirkburn|WoW | Also If you want to suggest that all navigation for instances and bosses by pass the main articles and go straight to strats, then say that. I think that's a bad idea, as people don't naviagate them purely for strats. |
| 23:44.27 | Kirkburn|WoW | That was a quote ^ |
| 23:44.36 | Zeal | if you consider that a mistake, thne you're guilty of the same thing, prior to that, in which i asked you to clarify yourself, but instead i had to clarify it for you through that. don't see me swearing at you and asking you to appologize do you? |
| 23:46.15 | Kirkburn|WoW | No, that's because I apologise WITHOUT NEEDING TO BE ASKED |
| 23:46.18 | winkiller | boooooooooooooooooored |
| 23:46.26 | Kirkburn|WoW | Shouting helps, too |
| 23:47.15 | winkiller | bored, not hungry . but thanks :D |
| 23:47.39 | Gourra | I'm bored AND hungry |
| 23:47.41 | pcj | pfft just throw the popcorn at zeal then |
| 23:47.44 | winkiller | I'm deliberately seeking for a little project to brush up my python skills |
| 23:47.53 | Gourra | no BT for me because I was 5 minutes late for the raid meh |
| 23:47.55 | Zeal | so apparently my belief that such things don't need an apology vs. yours that does means i should apologize to you? isn't such a basic thing how wars start? :P |
| 23:47.57 | winkiller | blog - been done 100x |
| 23:48.03 | winkiller | forum - same |
| 23:48.10 | winkiller | guestbook - so '90s |
| 23:48.18 | winkiller | signatures - already made em in php |
| 23:49.00 | Kirkburn|WoW | Sure, being completely wrong and insisting on it is never something to apologise for |
| 23:49.10 | Zeal | winkiller, code something that makes me and Kirkburn|WoW see eye-to-eye? :p |
| 23:49.19 | Zeal | some sort of translation thing, lol |
| 23:49.35 | Kyrin | winkiller: wiki template builders? |
| 23:51.01 | Kyrin | or form-fill -> template usage pastes? |
| 23:53.48 | winkiller | what? |
| 23:58.57 | *** join/#wowwiki DuTempete (i=Du@c-67-173-162-206.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:58.57 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o DuTempete] by ChanServ |
| 23:59.10 | Kirkburn|WoW | Yay! |
