| 00:00.42 | Bagginsww | "Orcs and Elves are here listed as members of the same species!" |
| 00:00.42 | Bagginsww | Which they aren't lore wise. Lore wise they are seperate species. I've added plenty of citations that mention that fact. Oops seems that the speculation went off the mark. --Baggins 23:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC) |
| 00:01.46 | *** join/#wowwiki cladhaire_ (n=cladhair@client0153.vpn.ox.ac.uk) |
| 00:04.02 | Zeal | Bagginsww, dunno if you noticed my recent additions to the Draenei talk page, but interested on your toughts |
| 00:04.10 | *** join/#wowwiki dasos (n=dasos@adsl-69-155-31-90.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) |
| 00:04.13 | Bagginsww | ahh what did you add? |
| 00:04.26 | Zeal | do orcs have secondary canines or are they tusks on the inside of the jaw? :S |
| 00:05.08 | Bagginsww | Hmm I don't know |
| 00:06.15 | Zeal | to be they look live seriously oversized secondary canines, plus tusks on the inside of the jaw.. never heard of that before, lol. |
| 00:06.19 | Zeal | *to me |
| 00:07.00 | Zeal | their normal canines are oversized still as well, so could be called fangs. |
| 00:08.49 | Bagginsww | hmm |
| 00:08.55 | Bagginsww | I'd have to check the rpg |
| 00:09.02 | Bagginsww | but I don't have time for that now :p |
| 00:09.06 | Zeal | yeah, if it's anywhere, it'd be in the rpg |
| 00:09.08 | Zeal | lol, i know |
| 00:09.17 | Zeal | but i doubt it's even in the rpg tbh :p |
| 00:09.31 | Bagginsww | I've already spent too much time looking up species, race and cousisn :p |
| 00:09.42 | Zeal | lol |
| 00:10.17 | Bagginsww | Orcs have broad, fl at |
| 00:10.17 | Bagginsww | noses, tusk-like teeth |
| 00:10.17 | Bagginsww | jutting from their lower |
| 00:10.17 | Bagginsww | and sometimes upper |
| 00:10.17 | Bagginsww | jaws, and large, pointed |
| 00:10.18 | Bagginsww | ears. They favor clothes |
| 00:10.20 | Bagginsww | of hide, and armor and |
| 00:10.22 | Bagginsww | arm themselves with a |
| 00:10.24 | Bagginsww | variety of gear. |
| 00:10.39 | Bagginsww | that's probably the best I can get out of the rpg |
| 00:10.53 | Zeal | about as much as i expected. |
| 00:10.54 | Zeal | ty |
| 00:10.54 | Bagginsww | not going to search for tusks, canines, or fangs later lol :p |
| 00:10.55 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 00:10.55 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 00:10.59 | Zeal | lol |
| 00:11.01 | Bagginsww | until later I mean |
| 00:11.12 | Bagginsww | as that's alot of content to go through |
| 00:11.17 | Zeal | aye |
| 00:13.18 | Zeal | /drawsave -bNqN @ <filename> |
| 00:13.20 | Zeal | woops |
| 00:22.39 | *** join/#wowwiki Krolmor (n=superbuf@189-68-215-121.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 00:22.43 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 00:22.43 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 00:23.14 | *** join/#wowwiki Henri_ (n=chatzill@84-50-35-104-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) |
| 00:23.56 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 00:29.42 | DuTempete | Awww... no Kirochi :( |
| 00:29.47 | DuTempete | eh Bagginsww? |
| 00:29.53 | Bagginsww | ya :p |
| 00:29.54 | DuTempete | Don't think he's going to show up? |
| 00:30.33 | Bagginsww | guess not |
| 00:30.39 | DuTempete | the sissy :( |
| 00:30.45 | pcj | gg |
| 00:31.07 | pcj | what |
| 00:31.36 | Henri_ | mhh lu |
| 00:32.19 | Kirkburn | Hullo Henri_ |
| 00:32.33 | Kirkburn | Zeal, surely you don't think tables aren't semantically correct? |
| 00:32.47 | Kirkburn | They are the correct method for showing data |
| 00:32.55 | Zeal | for tabular data, yes |
| 00:33.04 | Zeal | layout, no |
| 00:33.12 | Kirkburn | That's fair |
| 00:33.37 | Kirkburn | But we don't really use tables for layout |
| 00:33.56 | Kirkburn | Navboxes, infoboxes and message boxes, yes |
| 00:34.53 | Zeal | infobox, the main page, navboxes, message boxes, and not that i've chcked, probably some of those pages ss implemented (iirc). |
| 00:36.06 | Kirkburn | Main Page is mainly for compatability to my continuing mental function |
| 00:36.17 | Henri_ | hello kirkburn |
| 00:44.04 | pcj | !jobqueue |
| 00:44.06 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1sec. |
| 00:49.27 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 00:49.27 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 00:53.03 | Zeal | you can be more compatible without tables and the future of the web designers is full of failing mental functions :P |
| 00:53.15 | Zeal | you see me rant enough.. |
| 00:53.18 | Zeal | lol |
| 00:53.44 | Nodmor | lmao |
| 00:55.01 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 00:55.01 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 01:03.33 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 01:03.33 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 01:04.38 | pcj | :'( |
| 01:05.06 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=Sky2042@c-76-105-227-156.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:05.07 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 01:05.20 | DuTempete | fell better now, pcj? |
| 01:05.34 | Sky2042 | HEY!' |
| 01:05.36 | Sky2042 | If that was for the enjoyment of Pcj, well then... |
| 01:05.49 | DuTempete | yeah, I didn't want him to feel singled out. |
| 01:11.15 | Bagginsww | btw shouldn't that article be "intelligent species"? |
| 01:11.41 | DuTempete | oh, now you're *really* getting into semantics :P |
| 01:11.51 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 01:11.51 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 01:11.54 | DuTempete | sentient species :P |
| 01:12.38 | Bagginsww | um well the rpg uses sentient species sure, and sapient species and intelligent species |
| 01:12.54 | Bagginsww | its never uses the same description twice :p |
| 01:13.53 | *** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@207-38-224-165.c3-0.43d-ubr9.qens-43d.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:13.53 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ |
| 01:14.31 | Zeal | lol |
| 01:14.51 | Zeal | Sky2042 wb. replied to you on village pump while you were gone. |
| 01:17.13 | Zeal | why have i got the xmen theme tune in my head.. |
| 01:18.55 | DuTempete | err... |
| 01:19.08 | Hobinheim | huh? |
| 01:19.15 | DuTempete | hai! |
| 01:19.20 | Hobinheim | hi |
| 01:23.56 | *** part/#wowwiki Krolmor (n=superbuf@189-68-215-121.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 01:26.14 | pcj | !jobqueue |
| 01:26.15 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1sec. |
| 01:27.59 | foxlit | Wouldn't that overly long newsflash be better of as an article? |
| 01:29.06 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 01:29.06 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj] by ChanServ |
| 01:34.31 | Sky2042 | Zeal: eh? |
| 01:34.33 | Sky2042 | mk |
| 01:34.55 | *** join/#wowwiki Arrowmaster (n=Arrow@cpe-71-64-143-75.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 01:35.13 | *** join/#wowwiki Kameril (n=dssd@c-75-70-79-137.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.10 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 01:36.10 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 01:36.44 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/Species |
| 01:38.34 | DuTempete | Hrmm... speaking of Laurly, what is she up to? |
| 01:38.43 | pcj | ~seen laurly |
| 01:38.44 | infobot | laurly <n=test@0x50a4082e.vgnxx4.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowhead, 4d 17h 13m 28s ago, saying: 'arena promoter thats what i was looking for :)'. |
| 01:38.56 | DuTempete | Anyone hear from her lately? |
| 01:39.02 | pcj | no :( |
| 01:39.14 | DuTempete | I don't want to keep answering questions on the VP that I'm not sure of the answer to, that she should be answering. |
| 01:39.24 | pcj | I can answer it |
| 01:39.29 | pcj | I asked her a few days ago |
| 01:39.42 | DuTempete | I was gong to give it a stab |
| 01:39.47 | DuTempete | but if you know for sure, go ahead |
| 01:41.19 | Bagginsww | dutempete you gotta love blizzard's logic with the idea for scalebanes and flametongues that they are, "same race different species" |
| 01:41.32 | Zeal | lol |
| 01:41.33 | DuTempete | *sigh* |
| 01:41.39 | Bagginsww | indeed LOL |
| 01:42.26 | DuTempete | That kind of crap makes baby jesus cry. |
| 01:42.52 | Bagginsww | frankly I've never seen an rpg or fantasy universe get it right |
| 01:43.12 | Bagginsww | the novels are full of the interchanging race and species too |
| 01:43.27 | DuTempete | because they're more interested in their fantasy la-la-land than they are about being scientifically correct. |
| 01:43.31 | Bagginsww | well not full of there are only a few references but they exist. |
| 01:43.48 | Bagginsww | on the other hand a completely scientifically correct fantasy would be boring |
| 01:43.49 | DuTempete | Well, personally, I think writers are far too often uncaring about that sort of thing. |
| 01:43.50 | Bagginsww | or hard scifi |
| 01:44.06 | DuTempete | Untrue |
| 01:44.11 | Bagginsww | if I wanted to break down fantasy on a scientific level it would be easy to do |
| 01:44.14 | Bagginsww | outland could not exist |
| 01:44.20 | DuTempete | If you're talking about real-world stuff, you'd better damn well be scientifically correct |
| 01:44.46 | DuTempete | we're not talking scientifically true... that's a whole other thing. |
| 01:45.05 | Bagginsww | well like I said even race has its 5 definitions :p |
| 01:45.07 | Bagginsww | 1: a breeding stock of animals |
| 01:45.07 | Bagginsww | 2 a: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics |
| 01:45.07 | Bagginsww | 3 a: an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b: breed c: a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits |
| 01:45.07 | Bagginsww | 4obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition |
| 01:45.08 | Bagginsww | 5: distinctive flavor, taste, or strength |
| 01:45.18 | Bagginsww | obviously it will vary depending ont he dictionary |
| 01:45.28 | Zeal | apply science where it can be is what's needed. but no, most jsut through sciene out of it and do what they want. science could have been added in tons of places in wow, but they don't care to ro w/e reason. |
| 01:45.42 | Zeal | *for |
| 01:45.45 | Bagginsww | and when they do add it its out of place |
| 01:45.49 | Bagginsww | like reference to genetics |
| 01:45.52 | Bagginsww | on occasion |
| 01:45.55 | Zeal | aye |
| 01:46.47 | Zeal | they choose to ignore science where science could be used to produce the same result along with a real world explanation. |
| 01:46.51 | Bagginsww | so anyways by definition 2. b |
| 01:47.05 | Bagginsww | the whole "same race different species" would work |
| 01:47.19 | Bagginsww | again this is more of a problem with english language |
| 01:47.21 | Bagginsww | than science |
| 01:47.40 | DuTempete | true |
| 01:47.51 | Zeal | aye |
| 01:48.23 | Bagginsww | thus why anthropologists tend to toss out the race word if they can, because its imprecise |
| 01:48.26 | Zeal | i've had the "what is a species" argument with you before, so i cba :p |
| 01:48.30 | Bagginsww | toss out as in not use |
| 01:48.41 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 01:48.43 | Zeal | *and what is a race |
| 01:48.48 | Bagginsww | ya |
| 01:49.30 | Bagginsww | and species is just as bad |
| 01:49.33 | Zeal | plus i have no idea what i said >_>; |
| 01:49.36 | Bagginsww | http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/species :p |
| 01:49.51 | Bagginsww | although I think its probably a bit more precise than race in the long run |
| 01:50.11 | Bagginsww | except for the fight over what is a species, and what is a subspecies :p |
| 01:50.24 | Bagginsww | when can a subspecies become its own species? |
| 01:50.27 | Bagginsww | etc ;p |
| 01:51.26 | Sky2042 | Zeal: what big flaw? |
| 01:51.37 | Sky2042 | (ww:vp) |
| 01:52.08 | Sky2042 | just a summary, so i get where you're going with that statement on the pump |
| 01:52.58 | Zeal | it's basic design doesn't lend well to dynamic and fixed widths (it's actucally a core failing css more thna anything, but it can be worked around), thus you'll see content outside the bounds of it's parent and such |
| 01:53.10 | Zeal | *of css |
| 01:54.18 | Zeal | stupid inactive torrents, i don't want the vbr version of this single, i want the 320kb/s one : / |
| 01:54.22 | Sky2042 | "thus you'll see content" |
| 01:54.24 | Sky2042 | ? |
| 01:54.55 | Zeal | ok, one second nad i'll show you. |
| 01:57.11 | Zeal | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Sandbox/Item:Conjured_Bread <-- resize your browser so you get a horizontal scroll bar, and scroll to the far right edge. |
| 01:58.03 | Sky2042 | what did you /do/ ? |
| 01:58.06 | Sky2042 | o_o |
| 01:58.16 | Zeal | actually happens on any page once you get smaller than the header links iirc. |
| 01:58.20 | Zeal | hm? |
| 01:58.42 | Sky2042 | oh |
| 01:58.47 | Sky2042 | i see the issue |
| 01:59.00 | DuTempete | I know what Zeal is talking about, it happens on all the wikis |
| 01:59.02 | Zeal | it's just when the parent of the article's contain has no size, nor is it designed in such a way that it will always contain it's children. |
| 01:59.08 | Sky2042 | but that happens to all the headings |
| 01:59.11 | Zeal | *container |
| 01:59.17 | DuTempete | We just don't have the design know-how to fix it, from what I understand |
| 01:59.49 | Zeal | either an entirely float based layout or a liquid min/max-width based layout. |
| 01:59.56 | Zeal | monobook is neither of those. |
| 02:00.05 | DuTempete | but it's wikia-wide, so maybe that's something that should be discussed with Kirkburn, to see if there's a fix coming, or to make the suggestion |
| 02:00.20 | DuTempete | Quartz also has that issue |
| 02:00.23 | DuTempete | that I know |
| 02:00.51 | DuTempete | but still, that's a *very* low priority issue |
| 02:01.05 | DuTempete | I'd rather let Wikia put it on the to-do list, and spend our energy elsewhere |
| 02:02.24 | DuTempete | I think it has something to do with certain elements having fixed widths, and therefore conflicts with the relative elements |
| 02:02.34 | Zeal | well switching to an entirely float based layout it hard, expcially when you have na idea of how you want things to appear, as you do really have to work around the limitations and behaviour of floats. switch to to a liquid min/max-width based layout is easier, but doesn't degrade as well but is actually the best method ofr a site containing dynamic user entered content such as this. |
| 02:02.36 | DuTempete | *conflicting |
| 02:02.46 | Zeal | *is hard |
| 02:02.49 | Kirkburn | MediaWiki is designed for compatibility, not flashiness |
| 02:02.50 | Zeal | *especially |
| 02:03.02 | Zeal | *an idea |
| 02:03.22 | DuTempete | yeah, you're talking about an entirely "shininess" issue, Zeal |
| 02:03.28 | DuTempete | It's really not that important |
| 02:03.29 | Zeal | nope |
| 02:03.42 | Zeal | accessability and good designing issue :p |
| 02:03.49 | DuTempete | Is it preventing you from navigating the wiki? |
| 02:03.52 | Kirkburn | Do you know what happens when an admin self destructs? |
| 02:04.07 | Kirkburn | Cause I do, now :P |
| 02:04.25 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 02:04.31 | Zeal | i suspect quartz actually makes navigating a wiki alot harder at lower resolutions. |
| 02:04.39 | Kirkburn | They try and ban Wikia staff from their wiki... |
| 02:04.43 | DuTempete | not from my observations, Zeal |
| 02:05.05 | DuTempete | and I use a fairly low resolution on my laptop |
| 02:05.24 | Kirkburn | < 1024 you probably have a problem |
| 02:05.26 | DuTempete | ntm, I tend to shrink windows so I can see my chat clients at the same time :P |
| 02:05.30 | Zeal | monobook no, it jsut breaks the look of things. but it can also break navigation at smaller resolutions if you've done what i've doen to combat that issue (pretty much anywhere you have fixed widths in articles). |
| 02:05.40 | Kirkburn | However, the width of the quartz sidebar is a known problem |
| 02:08.52 | pcj | !jobqueue |
| 02:08.55 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1sec. |
| 02:11.06 | Zeal | i'm proud of my "very slowly progressing" portfolio site, as it's designed around floats thus degrades nicely. But i don't have to deal with dynamic content, so i'm able ensure it will stay that way. Floating everything down to the lowest level container (which is a nasty work around) can allow dynamic content to work fairly well though, but you could break your intended design (thus floats are good for "pixel perfect" design) |
| 02:11.27 | Zeal | *aren't good |
| 02:11.53 | DuTempete | Well, unfortunately there are some elements that just shouldn't resize below certain widths. |
| 02:12.01 | DuTempete | search fields for instance |
| 02:12.03 | DuTempete | images |
| 02:12.13 | DuTempete | thsoe being the sort of thing you find on Main Pages |
| 02:12.25 | Zeal | aye |
| 02:12.34 | DuTempete | And, yes, the Quartz side bar makes for a real pain in the ass in addition to that |
| 02:13.22 | DuTempete | the design that I've observed so far is that those non-resizable elements are forced inside the article boundaries |
| 02:13.41 | DuTempete | while other elements surrounding them may leak outside the borders |
| 02:13.52 | Zeal | hehe |
| 02:14.45 | DuTempete | it's not pretty, but I have yet to see anything serious enough to be a detriment to navigation |
| 02:17.26 | Zeal | by detrimental to navigation i meant that you have to scroll about both vertically and horizontally (never a nice experience, well unless you're on an iPone ofc :P) to view/navigate the page, when it could be avoided. |
| 02:19.30 | Zeal | why can i suddenly smell a lovely combination of chocolate, toffee and whisky :S |
| 02:20.27 | DuTempete | oh dear FSM that sounds yummy... |
| 02:20.49 | Zeal | FSM? |
| 02:20.56 | pcj | yummy? |
| 02:20.57 | Sky2042 | ^ |
| 02:20.58 | Kirkburn | Burn the heathen! |
| 02:21.12 | Kirkburn | BUURRRRN! |
| 02:21.29 | Kirkburn | Have you not been touched by his noodly appendage? |
| 02:22.11 | pcj | !wwstats |
| 02:22.12 | *** part/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 02:22.15 | Sky2042 | uh... |
| 02:22.16 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 02:22.16 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 02:22.18 | Sky2042 | wtf? |
| 02:22.53 | [NewsBot] | pcj has updated the stats for #wowwiki! Check out the stats at http://www.bxd.dk/irc/freenode/wowwiki.html |
| 02:24.32 | pcj | lol dotted it has me as an op |
| 02:26.45 | DuTempete | Damn, Zeal... and I liked you before you said that... |
| 02:27.49 | DuTempete | I would be pleased to convert you, however. |
| 02:28.10 | DuTempete | All should bask in the glory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. |
| 02:28.24 | Sky2042 | o_o |
| 02:28.29 | Zeal | O_o |
| 02:29.06 | pcj | o_O |
| 02:29.07 | Zeal | as long as it doesn't invole some sort of spaghetti tentacle rape.. |
| 02:29.09 | pcj | O_O |
| 02:29.29 | DuTempete | What do you think the "touching" is about? |
| 02:29.34 | Zeal | lol |
| 02:30.03 | Sky2042 | :O |
| 02:31.26 | Zeal | aww darn, DuTempete has stolen Kirkburn's favorite chat partner spot from me :p lol |
| 02:31.30 | DuTempete | Kirkburn and I have been touched. It doesn't hurt after the first time. |
| 02:31.35 | DuTempete | Neener. |
| 02:31.49 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 02:31.50 | DuTempete | <insert dog smiley> Kirkburn! |
| 02:32.12 | Kirkburn | <insert FSM smiley> DuTempete! |
| 02:32.26 | Kirkburn | This is fun to listen to :P http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPlmEHo9QQ |
| 02:32.57 | DuTempete | Kirkburn is MINE, Zeal. You only kept his attention warm whilst I was away. |
| 02:33.08 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 02:33.20 | Zeal | lol |
| 02:34.03 | Sky2042 | bu... bu... |
| 02:34.57 | DuTempete | Umm... I know I'm going to regret asking this... but, why are you crying, Sky2042? |
| 02:36.02 | Zeal | lol, reading the wp entry fro FSM :P |
| 02:36.14 | DuTempete | Muahahahaha! |
| 02:36.17 | DuTempete | Another convert! |
| 02:36.54 | DuTempete | Are you jealous, Sky2042? |
| 02:37.04 | Zeal | lol@pirates |
| 02:37.28 | DuTempete | Meh, not nearly as jealous as you will be, soon :P |
| 02:37.30 | Zeal | i wonder if mario is considered a false prophet :p |
| 02:37.34 | Sky2042 | hey, ppl in zg still drop bijous, don't they? |
| 02:37.40 | DuTempete | yuppers |
| 02:37.43 | Zeal | aye |
| 02:37.44 | Sky2042 | mk |
| 02:37.56 | DuTempete | I've got a bunch on my mule and no gumption to go use them :P |
| 02:39.52 | Zeal | only been there the once as 70 myself, and ended up with bags full of them on my bank char now : / |
| 02:41.32 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042_ (n=Sky2042@c-76-105-227-156.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:41.33 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Sky2042_] by ChanServ |
| 02:42.10 | Sky2042 | dieeeeeeeeeeeeee Sky2042_ |
| 02:43.29 | pcj | k |
| 02:47.59 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042_ (n=Sky2042@c-76-105-227-156.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:47.59 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Sky2042_] by ChanServ |
| 02:48.52 | *** join/#wowwiki MentalPower|AFK (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 02:49.17 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 02:49.17 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 02:53.54 | Kirkburn | http://www.cracked.com/article_14790_best-worst-fantasy-science-fiction-book-covers.html |
| 02:55.23 | Sky2042_ | lol |
| 02:56.04 | pcj | can someone unprotect http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28WoWOSG%29 |
| 02:56.25 | Sky2042_ | pcj: why? |
| 02:56.40 | pcj | toc right, also the page name is a bit unclear |
| 02:56.58 | Sky2042_ | what would you rename it? |
| 02:57.00 | Sky2042_ | :/ |
| 02:57.02 | DuTempete | why is it protected in the first place? |
| 02:57.06 | Sky2042_ | we have a half dozen articles on timelines |
| 02:57.12 | pcj | Timeline (World of Warcraft Official Strategy Guide ) |
| 02:57.18 | pcj | Guide)* |
| 02:57.23 | Sky2042_ | awfully long... |
| 02:57.29 | Sky2042_ | DuTempete: so people would stop changing it. |
| 02:57.32 | pcj | ...not really |
| 02:57.42 | DuTempete | well, pcj's point makes sense |
| 02:58.01 | DuTempete | maybe they would stop changing it if the name implied it is from a specific source |
| 02:58.19 | Zeal | baggins might have protected it to prevent further edits, and the info in the timelines are pretty set in stone. |
| 02:58.30 | Zeal | *as the |
| 02:58.30 | pcj | the formatting on that page sucks though |
| 02:58.52 | pcj | hard-coded <h3>'s |
| 02:59.16 | DuTempete | well if it isn't meant to be edited, then big whoop? |
| 02:59.21 | Zeal | weird, dunno why he'd have done that. |
| 03:00.34 | Zeal | oh wait, apparently i did it. |
| 03:00.35 | Zeal | lol? |
| 03:00.43 | pcj | ...ggg |
| 03:01.13 | Sky2042_ | yeah, you did it zeal -_- |
| 03:01.14 | Zeal | probably to work around the fact the default ==='s and =='s sucked |
| 03:01.32 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 03:01.33 | Zeal | and that i wanted them to match the original |
| 03:01.41 | Kirkburn | I was just looking for the evidence you did it, too :P |
| 03:02.17 | pcj | zeal did the tocright too |
| 03:02.40 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 03:03.09 | Zeal | that's back when everyone was thanks |
| 03:03.33 | Zeal | and as to the headers, they were doen that way on purpose i can see now, to match the formatting of the original source. |
| 03:03.57 | pcj | well...the original source's formatting looks like crap on wowwiki |
| 03:04.01 | Zeal | but if you want to re-wikify it, then i don't really care anymore |
| 03:04.04 | Zeal | looks fine imo |
| 03:04.24 | Kirkburn | Unprotected them all |
| 03:04.25 | Zeal | you'll need to do that with the wow timeline too though iirc |
| 03:04.42 | Kirkburn | They need a consistent ambox headers to point out that they shouldn't be edited for content |
| 03:04.58 | Kirkburn | Bagginsww, the timeline pages are unprotected for formatting changes |
| 03:05.00 | pcj | is there a template for that kirkburn |
| 03:05.23 | Kirkburn | Well, {{Ambox}}, but you might want to create one for all pages |
| 03:05.38 | Kirkburn | Like {{timeline}} or somesuch |
| 03:05.56 | Zeal | hehe |
| 03:06.13 | Kirkburn | (blue border for notice) |
| 03:06.19 | pcj | and [Newsbot] fails |
| 03:10.08 | Bagginsww | ya people kept on trying to "fix" the timelines |
| 03:10.21 | Bagginsww | i.e. put them in line with other timelines, or with other lore |
| 03:10.36 | Bagginsww | changing dates, changing the content :p |
| 03:11.43 | pcj | Baggins: Should those possibly be reviewed for fair use as well? |
| 03:12.04 | Zeal | pretty much everything on ww does |
| 03:12.05 | Zeal | lol |
| 03:13.24 | Bagginsww | well for one thing its pretty pointless to have the pages, if it was edited for fair use :p |
| 03:13.35 | Bagginsww | its already pretty much a reductionist version of history :p |
| 03:14.04 | Bagginsww | and the point was to point out that Blizzard doesn't have a consistent timeline ever :p |
| 03:14.38 | pcj | heh |
| 03:15.58 | Bagginsww | but ya the main point to fair use is to reduce things down, so that it isn't an exact carbon copy of each topic. You can't really get more reduced than the timelines :p |
| 03:16.31 | Bagginsww | its pretty hard to altar them and still have an accurate portrayal of the timeline. |
| 03:16.59 | Zeal | is there even a fair use policy on ww? |
| 03:17.04 | pcj | {{fair use}} |
| 03:17.05 | [NewsBot] | pcj meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:fair_use |
| 03:17.32 | Bagginsww | yes, there is now |
| 03:17.36 | Bagginsww | there was one previously |
| 03:17.42 | Bagginsww | it just wasn't exactly clear |
| 03:18.18 | Zeal | that's what i thought |
| 03:18.41 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 03:18.41 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 03:18.47 | Sky2042_ | we haven't exactly adhered to fair use and free use... >.> |
| 03:18.53 | Bagginsww | LOL ya |
| 03:18.55 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Policy/Copyright |
| 03:19.07 | Sky2042_ | but then, we pretty much say that blizzard owns everything |
| 03:19.09 | Zeal | best judgment is maintain a open dialog with blizz, if they don't like something, fix it. |
| 03:19.09 | Bagginsww | wikipedia doesn't really do it in general |
| 03:19.14 | Zeal | *an |
| 03:19.18 | Sky2042_ | Bagginsww: that's untrue. |
| 03:19.25 | Bagginsww | sky it depends on the articles |
| 03:19.37 | Sky2042_ | articles need fixing if it's "untrue". |
| 03:19.46 | Sky2042_ | true* |
| 03:19.51 | Bagginsww | legally the articles dealing with fictional stuff are bordline fair use issues |
| 03:19.52 | Kirkburn | We do maintain dialogue with Blizz - we're an official fansite, and so far there hasn't been any problem |
| 03:20.11 | Zeal | that's what i was saying Kirkburn |
| 03:20.19 | Bagginsww | because most of them act as "replacements" to the original sources |
| 03:20.25 | Bagginsww | this is speaking of wikipedia |
| 03:20.26 | Sky2042_ | o_o |
| 03:20.29 | Sky2042_ | not really. |
| 03:20.31 | Zeal | they're the copyright holders, unless they've suggested otherwise, no issue imo. |
| 03:20.35 | Sky2042_ | replacements, they are not. |
| 03:20.47 | Bagginsww | no you can go to one and read the whole plot summery |
| 03:21.00 | Bagginsww | all the details all the twists |
| 03:21.15 | Bagginsww | again I've linked in law interpretation |
| 03:21.20 | Bagginsww | you can find it in |
| 03:21.21 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Policy/Copyright |
| 03:21.31 | Bagginsww | if we strictly followed law interpretatiion |
| 03:21.36 | Sky2042_ | true. but a summary isn't a replacement. |
| 03:21.38 | Bagginsww | you could only cover less than 10% |
| 03:21.48 | Sky2042_ | else every paper ever published would be plagiarism, no? |
| 03:21.55 | Bagginsww | no not quite |
| 03:22.05 | Bagginsww | its a matter of fiction vs. fact |
| 03:22.17 | Kirkburn | Something to take note of, admins - Adys, Bagginsww, kd3|still`lagged, Tekkub - +q on a user mutes them, might be better than a kick ban sometimes |
| 03:22.23 | Bagginsww | you could research and cite all you want froma factial documen |
| 03:22.40 | Zeal | lol Kirkburn |
| 03:22.42 | Bagginsww | you could probably get away with paraphrasing copying 100% |
| 03:22.42 | Adys | Kirkburn: I didn't tell you about +q two months ago? :p |
| 03:22.59 | Bagginsww | where as the law is pretty finicky about the fiction |
| 03:23.06 | Bagginsww | something that certainly belongs ot the author |
| 03:23.17 | Zeal | because the truth can't my copyrighted pretty much :p |
| 03:23.20 | Bagginsww | ya |
| 03:23.23 | Kirkburn | Adys, no? :O |
| 03:23.39 | Kirkburn | +d does a realname ban |
| 03:23.40 | Adys | fine then :P |
| 03:23.50 | Sky2042_ | (I hate how ChatZilla makes :o look :/ |
| 03:23.51 | Zeal | realname? |
| 03:23.55 | pcj | :o |
| 03:24.04 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+d Zeal] by Adys |
| 03:24.08 | *** mode/#wowwiki [-d Zeal] by Adys |
| 03:24.11 | Adys | hum |
| 03:24.20 | Sky2042_ | poor zeal |
| 03:24.26 | Adys | you can mute someone by putting % before the nick |
| 03:24.31 | Adys | which is basically the same as +q |
| 03:24.57 | Bagginsww | but ya, basically http://www.todays-woman.net/article1528.html that covers the sum of it |
| 03:24.57 | Zeal | adys what exactly does that do? |
| 03:24.57 | Adys | no clue |
| 03:25.22 | Adys | anyone using minefield knows a fix to the midclick bug under windows? |
| 03:25.27 | Sky2042_ | Bagginsww: ty! "First, copyright protects expression, not ideas – anyone is free to use the ideas, concepts and facts in a work, provided they do not use the author’s original expression." |
| 03:25.38 | Sky2042_ | everyone's /free/ |
| 03:25.47 | Bagginsww | read further |
| 03:26.15 | Bagginsww | ideas, concepts and facts are different than the given definition of 'fiction' |
| 03:26.22 | Sky2042_ | idea? o_o |
| 03:26.25 | Sky2042_ | concept? |
| 03:26.28 | Sky2042_ | fact, given |
| 03:26.31 | Bagginsww | an idea can be scientifi theory |
| 03:26.38 | pcj | Hmm, should http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28unofficial%29 be an exception to no {{tocright}} or does the page need a re-design |
| 03:26.38 | Bagginsww | which is grounded inf acts |
| 03:26.46 | Bagginsww | whereas if it it fiction |
| 03:26.51 | Bagginsww | the law is pretty strict about it |
| 03:27.11 | Bagginsww | 2. The nature of the copyrighted work. Works of fact, such as science and history, receive less protection than works of fiction and imagination. (Indeed, since copyright protects only original expression, and facts themselves cannot be copyrighted, the only copyrightable element in a compilation of facts – such as a white pages phone directory – would be its original selection or arrangement, if any.) Still, quoting fiction f |
| 03:27.11 | Bagginsww | or purposes of criticism or review is generally found to be fair use, provided the amount taken is reasonable. But beware: quoting previously unpublished material of any kind, fact or fiction, is rarely considered fair use. |
| 03:27.29 | Sky2042_ | pcj: redesign. i can do that |
| 03:27.40 | Zeal | lol how so? |
| 03:27.49 | Bagginsww | Ideas, themes and facts are not copyrighted. (However, “events†in a fictional work are not “facts†– as the publishers of The Seinfeld Aptitude Test learned when a court refused to find its “643 trivia questions and answers about the events and characters depicted in Seinfeld†a fair use.) |
| 03:28.15 | Bagginsww | Quantitatively: Quote or closely paraphrase as little as possible to make your point: under 10% is best; above 20% is high risk (though a recent case allowed that, where mainly facts were copied). |
| 03:28.34 | Sky2042_ | Still, quoting fiction for purposes of criticism or review is generally found to be fair use, provided the amount taken is reasonable. |
| 03:28.39 | pcj | Baggins, what's with the random numbers on http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28Warcraft_RTS_manuals%29 |
| 03:28.46 | Bagginsww | and reasonable is the "10%" |
| 03:28.49 | Sky2042_ | it's not even quoted :/ |
| 03:28.54 | Sky2042_ | it's paraphrased |
| 03:29.25 | Bagginsww | you would hardly have a summary if you only used 10% of the content |
| 03:29.27 | Sky2042_ | With rulings ranging from under 1% is not fair use, to 100% can be fair use, it’s impossible to provide percentage guidelines that always work. |
| 03:29.44 | Bagginsww | and yes the problem is that's relating to all fair use issues |
| 03:29.46 | Bagginsww | facts or fiction |
| 03:29.58 | Bagginsww | again most things that take fiction get hit hard |
| 03:30.05 | Bagginsww | like that book |
| 03:30.08 | Zeal | those are the horde times given iirc pcj, Bagginsww hasn't filled in the vents yet. |
| 03:30.11 | Zeal | *events |
| 03:30.24 | Bagginsww | I was hoping others owuld :p |
| 03:30.53 | Bagginsww | they are the numbers from Lothar side of the manual, and some based off of horde side |
| 03:30.55 | Sky2042_ | For most courts the pivotal factor is whether the new use deprives the original author of the commercial value of the work. |
| 03:31.06 | Sky2042_ | there's /enjoyment/ to be had in reading the books. |
| 03:31.12 | Sky2042_ | A summary gives no such item. |
| 03:31.41 | Bagginsww | well let's look at http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land |
| 03:31.48 | Bagginsww | basically you have people who complain |
| 03:32.10 | Bagginsww | to be fair its only really going to be an issue if Blizzard takes a person to court |
| 03:32.15 | Bagginsww | they tend to threaten before they do that |
| 03:32.20 | Bagginsww | court costs alot |
| 03:32.47 | Bagginsww | the real issue is just because courts might favor anywhere between 1 and 100% |
| 03:32.56 | Bagginsww | that doesnt necessarily mean we can copy 100% |
| 03:33.11 | Bagginsww | apparently most of the time its safer to keep things under 10% |
| 03:33.49 | Bagginsww | the problem is Sky I've read some summarys of comics on the website that covered all the details almost exactly |
| 03:33.55 | Bagginsww | on wikipedia |
| 03:34.08 | Bagginsww | it would be covering more than 90% of the content |
| 03:34.09 | Sky2042_ | then those need to be fixed. :| |
| 03:34.23 | Bagginsww | and I've read movie summarys that covered roughly 60% or more |
| 03:34.33 | Sky2042_ | sigh |
| 03:34.43 | Sky2042_ | i do have a question for you |
| 03:35.02 | Sky2042_ | why have people not been sued for publishing summaries, since the beginning of time? |
| 03:35.07 | Sky2042_ | why isn't wp sued? |
| 03:35.35 | Bagginsww | generally most summary's I've read have been a parapgraph in length and didn't cover the plot twists |
| 03:35.37 | Bagginsww | and ending |
| 03:36.01 | [NewsBot] | BlizzPlanet: 1UP - Mike Morhaime Talks Activision Blizzard Merger - http://www.blizzplanet.com/?act=News&id=1889 |
| 03:36.10 | Bagginsww | actually those are generally frowned upon, because it can remove the reason to read, or see something |
| 03:36.13 | Bagginsww | if you know what happens |
| 03:36.57 | Sky2042_ | now you're jumping into broad statements... how do you /know/ ? |
| 03:37.01 | Zeal | most i've read cover the entire thing, but it is what it is, a summary of it, not it |
| 03:37.43 | Sky2042_ | ^ |
| 03:38.07 | Bagginsww | there is nothign wrong with summary's just as long as they don't cover everything |
| 03:38.10 | Sky2042_ | people take on literature for two reasons: enlightenment, and enjoyment. there's no enjoyment in a summary |
| 03:38.19 | Sky2042_ | however long |
| 03:38.26 | Bagginsww | but if the summary spoils it can ruin enjoyment |
| 03:38.54 | Bagginsww | a review often has a summary |
| 03:39.04 | Bagginsww | depends on the reviewr I suppose |
| 03:39.06 | Zeal | i hate spoilers tags and such when used in places where the intent is provide information. that means you are there to learn it all, not jsut what won't spoil it for you. |
| 03:39.17 | Bagginsww | but not all reviewers will cover the largest spoiling parts |
| 03:39.21 | Zeal | *is to provide |
| 03:40.55 | Zeal | same goes for a review, holding back stuff because it's a spoiler seems to be backwards. the intent was to review it, if you hold back information you can't do that fully and have failed at your intent immediately. |
| 03:41.45 | Bagginsww | not quite, I've read plenty of reviews that were spot on without giving away the secrets |
| 03:41.54 | Bagginsww | that's how I decided if I wanted to see the movie or not |
| 03:42.18 | Bagginsww | they covered how well the acting was, talked about a few scenes, etc |
| 03:42.23 | Bagginsww | showed a few scenes |
| 03:42.45 | Zeal | i didn't say they have to spoil it, i said they shouldn't hold information back. if the spoiler info isn't required or relevant to the review then that's perfectly fine. |
| 03:44.28 | Bagginsww | If they discussed to much about a movie like sixth sense, it would have ruined the reason tos ee the movie. |
| 03:45.09 | Bagginsww | well I'm off take care everyone |
| 03:46.38 | Zeal | that depends on how you intend to use the review though. for me a review is there for me to know what the author thought of the film, not should i see this film or not. i'll leave that to my own judgement, and summaries of reviews/quotes/ratings/awards/trailers etc. |
| 03:49.02 | Zeal | and i'm gunna go eat, bbl |
| 03:49.51 | zeal | wtf sky? sigh.. |
| 03:50.26 | Sky2042_ | zeal: tocright needed to die. easiest wya to kill tocright in that case was to kill the headers. ie, needed less headers |
| 03:51.57 | Kirkburn | Also, it's much nicer |
| 03:52.17 | Kirkburn | And way more readable, imo |
| 03:52.40 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-94.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:52.41 | zeal | uglier, harder to read, harder to pic out the dates while scrolling. simply remove the toc was the solution. |
| 03:52.49 | Sky2042_ | zeal. no. it wasn't |
| 03:53.04 | Sky2042_ | you want to step back an edit in history and preview the toc removal? |
| 03:53.05 | zeal | and making up bs headers doesn't help. |
| 03:53.20 | Sky2042_ | feel free to change the names. i thought them appropriate. |
| 03:53.25 | zeal | sky, i've tested it's layout in various was thanks, i know. |
| 03:53.47 | Sky2042_ | oh good! might want to refresh your memory. |
| 03:54.13 | zeal | why hell do you think i've got http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Sandbox/Source:Timeline_%28unofficial%29 ¬_¬ anyways, screw it. leave it off my watchlist now. bbl |
| 03:54.46 | Sky2042_ | that's worse. it hasn't /got/ a toc |
| 03:54.49 | Sky2042_ | >_< |
| 03:57.16 | Sky2042 | Kirkburn: http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:WoWScrnShot_120207_194552.jpg was uploaded with the wrong file extension |
| 03:57.20 | pcj | there, wikified |
| 04:00.42 | *** join/#wowwiki Guillotine (n=Guilloti@cpe-76-167-213-238.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 04:02.51 | Sky2042 | uh oh.... which one's includeonly>? |
| 04:03.28 | pcj | Hmm? |
| 04:03.41 | Sky2042 | diff between onlyinclude and includeonly. go! |
| 04:03.43 | pcj | Includeonly means it will be shown only when the page is included |
| 04:03.52 | Sky2042 | ok |
| 04:03.58 | pcj | Onlyinclude means that only that part of the page will be included |
| 04:05.06 | *** join/#wowwiki Strykar (i=wakka@59.95.22.7) |
| 04:14.45 | Kirkburn|sleep | G'night all! |
| 04:17.19 | pcj | night |
| 04:18.47 | DuTempete | night night Kirkburn|sleep! |
| 04:19.14 | Kirkburn|sleep | pcj, can't touch this, na na na naa |
| 04:25.01 | Kirkburn|sleep | What I do to DuTempete ain't being done in front of you :P |
| 04:25.33 | pcj | whoa http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Guild:Dark_Origin_%28Executus_EU%29 now that's freaky |
| 04:26.48 | Kirkburn|sleep | pcj, based on http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Executus_Europe |
| 04:27.11 | zeal | that's my old server O_o |
| 04:28.02 | Kirkburn|sleep | zeal, and then you realised it's populated by bad web designers? :P |
| 04:28.42 | zeal | they're new to the server afaik |
| 04:28.43 | zeal | lol |
| 04:28.53 | zeal | dammit, nothing on tv |
| 04:30.30 | zeal | plus i've seen that design elsewhere for server pages, so it's not a new one. |
| 04:31.02 | zeal | anyways, nn Kirkburn|sleep |
| 04:39.11 | Sky2042 | actually, that's based on Grypphen's server |
| 04:39.16 | Sky2042 | [[Server:Mal'Ganis US]] |
| 04:39.17 | [NewsBot] | Sky2042 meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Mal'Ganis_US |
| 04:39.29 | Sky2042 | there's a div not closed in that particular page |
| 04:40.32 | Sky2042 | god knows where |
| 04:44.08 | Kirkburn|sleep | You mean FSM knows where |
| 04:45.32 | Kirkburn|sleep | Night! |
| 04:49.07 | *** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 04:49.07 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 05:04.09 | DuTempete | night night darlings! |
| 05:04.22 | DuTempete | See you tomorrow! |
| 05:22.28 | *** join/#wowwiki Tinyboom (n=dnotland@91.84-49-167.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:22.51 | *** join/#wowwiki arskeh (n=aki@a91-154-84-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 05:35.38 | *** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Baggins@cpe-66-91-120-70.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 05:35.38 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Bagginsww] by ChanServ |
| 05:35.49 | Bagginsww | blah, I'm up to like page 20 on my CRM project :p |
| 05:36.17 | Bagginsww | more than I want to do, but enough to cover the content |
| 05:36.39 | Bagginsww | wishes I could have done it with less pages seing as there was no actual "page requirements" |
| 05:38.58 | Nodmor | lmao!!!1 |
| 05:45.29 | Bagginsww | still we were told to be thourough, and my topic had alot of material to cover :p |
| 05:45.45 | Nodmor | _ > |
| 05:45.51 | Nodmor | fck |
| 05:45.59 | Nodmor | first instance today soon |
| 05:46.06 | Nodmor | like first 4 me ever lol |
| 05:46.32 | Bagginsww | the problem is the actual paper is only like 14 pages. The other 6-10 pages is the journal/record of the hours I used. |
| 05:46.47 | Bagginsww | plus a few pages of USGS maps |
| 05:46.54 | Bagginsww | and blue prints |
| 05:48.35 | Nodmor | gl |
| 05:49.48 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 05:56.35 | Nodmor | sleep bb : > |
| 06:02.39 | Niat | g'morning! |
| 06:02.57 | Niat | ugt.. of course! ;-) |
| 06:44.26 | *** join/#wowwiki MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 07:13.24 | *** join/#wowwiki Steik (n=Media@unaffiliated/steik) |
| 07:36.27 | *** join/#wowwiki cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 07:36.27 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 07:37.00 | *** join/#wowwiki kd3 (n=kd3@74.40.36.166) |
| 07:37.00 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o kd3] by ChanServ |
| 07:42.07 | *** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.208) |
| 07:48.46 | *** part/#wowwiki Steik (n=Media@unaffiliated/steik) |
| 08:22.47 | [NewsBot] | MMO Champion: Blizzard's next MMO, Virus alert, Morhaime interview - http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=2756.0 |
| 08:34.57 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=Sky2042@c-76-105-227-156.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 08:34.57 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 08:35.27 | *** join/#wowwiki sannse (n=me@wikimedia/pdpc.active.sannse) |
| 08:35.27 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o sannse] by ChanServ |
| 09:16.32 | *** join/#wowwiki Dotted (n=Dotted@82.129.20.243) |
| 09:16.38 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Dotted] by ChanServ |
| 09:23.24 | *** join/#wowwiki elaa (n=ela@p54B4FE75.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:40.42 | Zeal | damn naps :P |
| 09:42.39 | Dotted | he's french |
| 09:45.46 | Niat | that doen't make things better! ;-) |
| 09:49.03 | *** join/#wowwiki Srosh (n=Srosh@d018219.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 09:54.01 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:58.08 | Zeal | i can't help but remember the south park episode when i see dog whisper on tv :P |
| 10:00.17 | *** join/#wowwiki harldephin (i=harl@dslb-088-076-033-219.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:05.26 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus (n=WyriHaxi@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 10:20.49 | *** join/#wowwiki Srosh (n=Srosh@d018219.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 10:49.41 | *** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@207-38-224-165.c3-0.43d-ubr9.qens-43d.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 10:49.41 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ |
| 11:03.50 | Fisker- | waaah Bibi |
| 11:03.53 | Fisker- | you linked incgamers |
| 11:04.21 | Bibi | get me an official fansite status and an interview with Blizzard representatives and I'll stop linking them |
| 11:05.31 | Fisker- | just write blizzard :P |
| 11:05.38 | bleeter | Bibi: can't do that.. but I can give you Tux with a dong! http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/Infra666/tuxdong.jpg |
| 11:06.15 | Bibi | kthx. |
| 11:10.15 | Zeal | god.. shatner's eyes are red in the wow ad |
| 11:10.21 | Zeal | just showed in hd on tv. |
| 11:10.24 | Zeal | lol |
| 11:10.35 | *** part/#wowwiki sannse (n=me@wikimedia/pdpc.active.sannse) |
| 11:10.38 | Zeal | looks like he's been up all night or something |
| 11:11.43 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus (n=WyriHaxi@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 11:13.33 | Zeal | well, nn all |
| 11:26.49 | *** join/#wowwiki foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.albnxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 11:26.49 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o foxlit] by ChanServ |
| 11:36.54 | Fisker- | i hate this shit |
| 11:36.57 | Fisker- | stupid n00bs |
| 11:37.21 | Fisker- | setup a router for them and a month later they request documentation when they already got it |
| 11:37.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Daworm (n=chatzill@cust2031.vic01.dataco.com.au) |
| 11:38.38 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: Into Its Second Week, Jack Thompson Trial Resumes Today - http://gamepolitics.com/2007/12/03/into-its-second-week-jack-thompson-trial-resumes-today/ |
| 11:38.41 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: German Shrinks Call Violent Games “Landmines for the Soulâ€, Seek Ban - http://gamepolitics.com/2007/12/03/german-shrinks-call-violent-games-landmines-for-the-soul-seek-ban/ |
| 11:40.07 | *** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:40.13 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ |
| 11:43.51 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet15.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 11:43.51 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kaso] by ChanServ |
| 11:47.24 | Niat | i guess there are some native english speakers around here, so could someone explain this: |
| 11:47.27 | Niat | A bear walks into a bar and says "I'd like a beer and . . . . a packet of peanuts." The barman says "Why the big pause?" |
| 11:48.14 | sacarasc | pause is pronounces the same as paws |
| 11:48.20 | sacarasc | *pronounced |
| 11:48.24 | Niat | aaaaaah! |
| 11:48.30 | Niat | thanks a lot... |
| 11:48.47 | Niat | i've been staring at this for nearly 25 minutes now... |
| 11:53.48 | bleeter | it had never ocurred to me, until I worked in Europe, how completely untranslatable some jokes are. |
| 11:54.12 | bleeter | the guys I was working with in the netherlands thought the following to be incredibly funny |
| 11:54.35 | bleeter | Person 1: "My dog has no nose" Person 2: "How does he smell?" Person 1: "Terrible!" |
| 11:54.53 | Niat | *giggle* |
| 11:55.03 | sacarasc | that joke is ancient ;\ |
| 11:55.08 | bleeter | indeed |
| 11:55.37 | bleeter | but as it fails in translation, non-english speakers generally have never heard it before |
| 11:55.39 | foxlit | There's a whole class of jokes based primarily on language |
| 11:55.51 | sacarasc | my all time favourite joke is still: A man walks into a bar. Ouch! |
| 11:56.00 | bleeter | a baby seal walks into a club |
| 11:56.21 | foxlit | Generally, none are funny by themselves |
| 11:56.46 | foxlit | As a meta-reference to other jokes of the same class (the two examples above), though, they are :) |
| 11:56.51 | bleeter | it's not just jokes, other stuff too. I've got a book by Arthur C. Clarke about the history of telecommunications. In the foreward, i think it is, he apologises that the title doesn't translate into other languages. |
| 11:56.58 | bleeter | "How the world was one" |
| 11:57.29 | foxlit | I'm sure you can do something silly with "unite" |
| 11:57.38 | bleeter | well, I mean to say, it does translate, but the phonetic double meaning is lost |
| 11:58.02 | bleeter | damn fine read, too, I must say |
| 11:58.02 | Niat | same with movie titles... |
| 11:59.32 | bleeter | I must go to bed, nn all :) |
| 11:59.48 | Niat | g'night, bleeter! |
| 12:42.34 | *** join/#wowwiki Daworm (n=chatzill@cust2031.vic01.dataco.com.au) |
| 12:59.02 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: Joystiq Interviews Jeff Gerstmann - http://gamepolitics.com/2007/12/03/joystiq-interviews-jeff-gerstmann/ |
| 12:59.05 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: Protests, Boycotts in Wake of GameSpot’s Gerstmann Firing - http://gamepolitics.com/2007/12/03/protests-boycotts-in-wake-of-gamespots-gerstmann-firing/ |
| 13:09.06 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Breakfast Topic: Mounting annoyances - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/breakfast-topic-mounting-annoyances/ |
| 13:12.28 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 13:12.28 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter_] by ChanServ |
| 13:34.09 | *** join/#wowwiki arskeh (n=aki@a91-154-84-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:34.42 | *** join/#wowwiki Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 13:34.42 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kalroth] by ChanServ |
| 13:42.27 | *** join/#wowwiki Lopen|Wooork (n=lopen@207.74.131.2) |
| 14:10.07 | *** join/#wowwiki bleeter (n=bleeter@thesheepdip.bleeter.id.au) |
| 14:10.12 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v bleeter] by ChanServ |
| 14:12.08 | *** join/#wowwiki ^RaK^ (n=rakkeh@81-179-84-213.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 14:13.33 | *** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 14:13.33 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 14:16.24 | *** join/#wowwiki Chompers (n=Chomp@cpc2-cove7-0-0-cust20.brhm.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:17.02 | [NewsBot] | BlizzPlanet: Willy Toledo - World of Warcraft TV Commercial - http://www.blizzplanet.com/?act=News&id=1890 |
| 14:22.51 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus7th (n=WyriHaxi@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 14:26.07 | *** join/#wowwiki Lukian (n=wizard@203.171.70.21) |
| 14:39.17 | pcj | kirkburn http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Contributions/Im_asian |
| 14:40.35 | ^RaK^ | sounds like a nice chap :| |
| 14:47.10 | *** join/#wowwiki Strykar (i=wakka@59.96.91.32) |
| 14:49.51 | *** join/#wowwiki amro|class (n=amro@82.101.184.179) |
| 15:04.54 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus7th (n=WyriHaxi@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 15:09.05 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Around Azeroth: Star-gazing - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/around-azeroth-star-gazing/ |
| 15:18.26 | *** join/#wowwiki Teomyr (n=teo@HSI-KBW-091-089-004-008.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:18.27 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Teomyr] by ChanServ |
| 15:32.20 | pcj | would you say Vivendi got bought out by, or that they just merged with, Activision |
| 15:37.02 | [NewsBot] | BlizzPlanet: Blizzard Aims Wow at Russia, Eastern Europe, and India - http://www.blizzplanet.com/?act=News&id=1891 |
| 15:37.13 | Strykar | about time too |
| 15:52.42 | *** join/#wowwiki sannse (n=me@wikimedia/pdpc.active.sannse) |
| 15:52.42 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o sannse] by ChanServ |
| 15:53.02 | *** mode/#wowwiki [-o sannse] by sannse |
| 16:05.08 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Officers' Quarters: Why we lead - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/officers-quarters-why-we-lead/ |
| 16:32.05 | *** join/#wowwiki laindir (n=laindir@74-136-99-200.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 16:35.55 | *** join/#wowwiki Lopen|Work (n=lopen@207.74.131.2) |
| 16:39.02 | ltcolumbo | I heard Activision is selling out to the frogs |
| 16:39.10 | ltcolumbo | wtf :( |
| 16:39.51 | *** join/#wowwiki Daemona (n=koaschte@hmbg-4d061bf4.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:53.08 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: L2p Paladin with Eyonix - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/l2p-paladin-with-eyonix/ |
| 16:57.47 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 16:57.47 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 16:59.02 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: MPAA Heavyweight Joins ESA Executive Team - http://gamepolitics.com/2007/12/03/mpaa-heavyweight-joins-esa-executive-team/ |
| 16:59.05 | [NewsBot] | GamePolitics: Ratings Complacency a Theme in NIMF’s Annual Video Game Report Card - http://gamepolitics.com/2007/12/03/national-institute-on-media-family-to-issue-video-game-report-card-today/ |
| 17:00.08 | *** join/#wowwiki FireSide (n=jlindsey@24-155-89-201.ip.grandenetworks.net) |
| 17:01.15 | ltcolumbo | I didn't know Blizzard was owned by the French :( |
| 17:01.25 | Fisker- | lulz |
| 17:01.26 | Fisker- | owld |
| 17:01.30 | *** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Baggins@cpe-66-91-120-70.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 17:01.30 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Bagginsww] by ChanServ |
| 17:01.54 | ltcolumbo | wtf with activision? |
| 17:02.09 | laindir | I thought it's always been a division of vivendi |
| 17:02.18 | Bagginsww | well I finisehd my project. its 15 pages on the report, 4 pages on the journal, 4-5 pages of maps. |
| 17:02.31 | ltcolumbo | isn't activision a console gaming company? |
| 17:02.42 | Bagginsww | pc and console |
| 17:02.49 | ltcolumbo | oh that's right |
| 17:03.07 | Bagginsww | they came out of console originally though |
| 17:03.09 | Bagginsww | I think |
| 17:03.18 | Bagginsww | way back on the atari |
| 17:03.18 | ltcolumbo | I wonder how that's going to impact wow |
| 17:03.24 | Bagginsww | probably not |
| 17:03.28 | ltcolumbo | make it even more of a easier game? |
| 17:03.38 | Bagginsww | do you know how many companies Blizzard has been under? |
| 17:03.46 | ltcolumbo | I kind of hate how they took out all the elites |
| 17:03.55 | Bagginsww | and Blizzard has pretty much been able to work autonomously for the most part |
| 17:04.06 | ltcolumbo | I have soloed every quest chain at my level so far on my new hunter |
| 17:04.08 | Bagginsww | they took some of Blizzard's programmers? |
| 17:04.14 | Bagginsww | oh you mean elites |
| 17:04.19 | Bagginsww | as in elite monsters |
| 17:04.22 | ltcolumbo | yeah |
| 17:04.31 | ltcolumbo | like mini bosses in quests |
| 17:04.34 | Bagginsww | ya |
| 17:04.34 | ltcolumbo | and some areas |
| 17:04.39 | ltcolumbo | where the monsters used to be elites |
| 17:04.50 | Bagginsww | for a moment there I thought you meant they were moving employees around LOL |
| 17:05.12 | ltcolumbo | like the Dwarfs in Hillsbrad area |
| 17:05.13 | Bagginsww | well throughout the game, they have been releasing content as very hard at first and then dumbing it down |
| 17:05.15 | FireSide | yeah... noticed that the other day when i went to SM on my alt and all the guys outside it are non-elite now |
| 17:05.16 | Bagginsww | its nothing new |
| 17:05.23 | ltcolumbo | and the Trolls in Hinterlands |
| 17:05.40 | ltcolumbo | it's easy as fuck now |
| 17:05.48 | ltcolumbo | I remember struggling on my Warlock |
| 17:06.13 | FireSide | don't know if i'd consider blizzard employees as "elite" |
| 17:06.32 | ltcolumbo | I don't know if it's the Hunter class that's easy to solo, or the game changes |
| 17:07.12 | Bagginsww | Metzen is leet ;) |
| 17:07.34 | ltcolumbo | makes Ragnarok Online seem insanely hard to level |
| 17:07.41 | Bagginsww | I although I think I could do a better job than him at keeping continuity ;) |
| 17:08.23 | Bagginsww | except that I wouldnt' be able to keep track of all the little side stories introduced by the MMO :p |
| 17:11.11 | *** join/#wowwiki DuTempete (n=chatzill@c-69-243-137-249.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 17:11.11 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v DuTempete] by ChanServ |
| 17:18.24 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet19.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 17:18.24 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kaso] by ChanServ |
| 17:18.52 | ralfWORK | I hated those trolls on both my priest and my druid |
| 17:23.47 | *** join/#wowwiki Polarina (n=Polarina@unaffiliated/polarina) |
| 17:25.10 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 17:25.10 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj] by ChanServ |
| 17:25.24 | *** join/#wowwiki pcj_2 (n=pcjjenks@pdpc/supporter/active/pcj) |
| 17:25.24 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v pcj_2] by ChanServ |
| 17:26.01 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/Beastmaster#Famous.2FNamed |
| 17:26.11 | Bagginsww | can anyone confirm that Leoroxx is a beastmaster? |
| 17:29.45 | DuTempete | <insert dog smiley> Kirkburn! |
| 17:30.59 | Kirkburn | <insert kitty smiley> DuTempete |
| 17:31.04 | Kirkburn | Bagginsww, reviewing Species now |
| 17:31.10 | Bagginsww | cool |
| 17:31.12 | pcj | wtf is http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Ascension_%28Llane%29 |
| 17:31.29 | Bagginsww | btw the list of "lore species" are those specifically called species in the books |
| 17:31.29 | Fisker- | http://www.degulesider.dk/vbw/super/resultat.do?twoFieldName=&twoFieldAddr=jagtvej+69++2200 <-lulz |
| 17:31.55 | Bagginsww | I left off a few references like one to owlbeats, and sasquatch |
| 17:32.44 | Bagginsww | or scorpids :p |
| 17:32.44 | Bagginsww | mainly kept it to fully sapient races |
| 17:33.11 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: WoW Moviewatch: Unofficial Patch Trailer - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/wow-moviewatch-unofficial-patch-trailer/ |
| 17:33.48 | Bagginsww | hmm kirkburn interfertile is spelled with a hyphen normally? |
| 17:34.00 | Bagginsww | it wasn't in the book, LOL, maybe a typo |
| 17:34.11 | Kirkburn | I dunno, but I thought it looked weird :P |
| 17:34.21 | Kirkburn | Will unhyphenate if you say so :) |
| 17:35.21 | Kirkburn | Done |
| 17:36.11 | Bagginsww | well I thought it looked weird too, kinda hard to read, if you read it fast it can apear to say "infertile :p |
| 17:36.16 | Kaso | is interfertile a real word? |
| 17:36.21 | Bagginsww | I don't know LOL |
| 17:36.31 | Bagginsww | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=interfertile |
| 17:36.33 | Bagginsww | apparently |
| 17:37.37 | Kaso | hmm seems to be, feels wrong somehow somehow |
| 17:38.20 | ltcolumbo | is there a projected release date for 2.3.2? |
| 17:38.39 | Kirkburn | Indeed, I read it as infertile at first too, thus the hyphen |
| 17:38.55 | Bagginsww | lol ya |
| 17:39.20 | Kaso | ltcolumbo, not really |
| 17:40.23 | Kaso | is interinfertile a word? |
| 17:40.45 | laindir | doubtful... presumably the correct form would be noninterfertile |
| 17:40.53 | laindir | though I'd have to check |
| 17:42.05 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 17:42.21 | Bagginsww | you probably could just say "infertile" |
| 17:42.24 | Bagginsww | at that poitn |
| 17:42.47 | Kaso | then why couldnt we just say fertile for interfertile? |
| 17:42.57 | DuTempete | "inter" is an appropriate prefix |
| 17:43.03 | DuTempete | You don't need to hyphenate it |
| 17:43.14 | laindir | interfertile implies the potential for crossbreeding |
| 17:43.15 | pcj | why is WoWWiki down |
| 17:43.16 | pcj | !jobqueue |
| 17:43.28 | Kaso | hmm, http 500 |
| 17:43.30 | DuTempete | it would just be interfertile, but yes, it does read quickly as infertile :P |
| 17:43.33 | Bagginsww | because interfertile means between two races |
| 17:43.35 | DuTempete | Hey! |
| 17:43.39 | Kirkburn | If WoWWiki is down, why would !jobqueue work ... |
| 17:43.53 | pcj | Because it might just be me? |
| 17:44.02 | Bagginsww | able to interbreed, or hybridize |
| 17:44.03 | Kaso | Bagginsww, so does interinfertile? |
| 17:44.05 | Bagginsww | or two species |
| 17:44.08 | Kaso | just the negative |
| 17:44.20 | Kaso | Im getting http error 500 too |
| 17:44.21 | Bagginsww | where as infertile is infertile no matter how you put it |
| 17:44.35 | [NewsBot] | The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1sec. |
| 17:44.47 | pcj | Hah, I win |
| 17:44.47 | DuTempete | Don't you be slapping Kirkburn around, pcj. :( |
| 17:44.48 | Bagginsww | two species like a cat and dog are infertile |
| 17:45.11 | Kaso | Infertile to me refers to an indivual creatures capability to have children, the inter is needed to specifiy it is only within the bounds of this coupling we are talking about |
| 17:45.25 | Kirkburn | It's being investigated :) |
| 17:45.37 | Bagginsww | wellkaso if you can find a specific adjective let me know |
| 17:45.47 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 17:45.47 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 17:45.53 | Bagginsww | whatever it is :p |
| 17:46.22 | Bagginsww | I can't find any antonyms :p |
| 17:46.32 | Bagginsww | nothign discusses that |
| 17:46.36 | Bagginsww | on the dictionaries |
| 17:46.47 | DuTempete | I would use interfertile. |
| 17:46.55 | DuTempete | It sounds appropriate |
| 17:47.02 | DuTempete | and has the correct definition |
| 17:47.09 | DuTempete | regardless of the layman's connotatio |
| 17:47.11 | DuTempete | n |
| 17:47.13 | Bagginsww | we are wondering opposite of interfertile for trivia sake |
| 17:47.20 | Kaso | yah |
| 17:47.39 | DuTempete | oh, lol "antonyms" I'm out of it, sorry :P |
| 17:47.40 | Kaso | it seems its a very uncommon word so perhaps there is no standard yet :< |
| 17:47.51 | Bagginsww | its an old word |
| 17:47.52 | DuTempete | non-interfertile :P |
| 17:47.53 | Bagginsww | from 1899 |
| 17:48.10 | DuTempete | or aninterfertile |
| 17:48.12 | Bagginsww | but ya I'm guessin people probably just said infertile :p |
| 17:48.44 | DuTempete | "The coupling of the two species would not result in offspring" |
| 17:48.46 | DuTempete | There... |
| 17:49.15 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 17:49.43 | laindir | as far as common usage goes, the most common appears to be "not interfertile" |
| 17:50.04 | *** join/#wowwiki Killmore (n=task@modemcable031.191-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 17:50.21 | laindir | followed by "non-interfertile" and unhyphenated |
| 17:50.32 | Kirkburn | I didn't know the XP reduction started at level 11 :O |
| 17:50.47 | DuTempete | I thoughti t was supposed to start at 20? |
| 17:50.47 | Bagginsww | common usage? Where did you get the statistics if I may ask? |
| 17:51.02 | laindir | lol, google.com |
| 17:51.05 | Kirkburn | Not according to Formulas:XP To Level |
| 17:51.08 | Kaso | it just seems odd to me that "fertile:infertile" becomes "interfertile:non-interfertile" |
| 17:51.20 | Kaso | but i guess english rarely makes sense |
| 17:51.21 | Kirkburn | It starts as a 1% reduction at 11 |
| 17:51.21 | Bagginsww | ok kirkburn I'm trying to remember another real world example of two species interbreeding and having viable offspring |
| 17:51.28 | Kirkburn | Then reached 10% at 20 |
| 17:51.30 | Bagginsww | correct me if I'm wrong |
| 17:51.40 | Kirkburn | Then 18% at 30, where it stays until 60 |
| 17:51.44 | Bagginsww | african honey bee, and european honey bee? |
| 17:51.48 | Bagginsww | *Killer bees |
| 17:51.53 | DuTempete | yuppers |
| 17:52.03 | DuTempete | but are they really two species? |
| 17:52.09 | Bagginsww | I'd have to check |
| 17:52.55 | laindir | typically, species boundaries are delineated on the premise of interfertility not existing, so it's something of a paradox |
| 17:53.19 | laindir | all the journal articles I've found so far seem to relate to flies or other insects |
| 17:53.49 | Bagginsww | well actualy species boundaries can also be based on regional |
| 17:53.59 | Bagginsww | african and european aren't likely to be able to reproduce |
| 17:54.09 | Bagginsww | in their natural environements |
| 17:54.33 | Bagginsww | most definitions of cross-species interbreeding state "most would be infertile" |
| 17:54.44 | Bagginsww | of course "most" means some are |
| 17:54.52 | Bagginsww | otherwise they would have said "all" |
| 17:55.37 | Bagginsww | some cases its is one sex that's infertile between the two. |
| 17:55.42 | laindir | but does that mean that the species themselves produce no offspring when bred? or that the offspring are not viable? |
| 17:55.49 | Bagginsww | like a male would be infertile but the female verison fertile |
| 17:55.51 | Bagginsww | or vice versa |
| 17:56.14 | Bagginsww | we are tlakign about offspring being capable of reproducing |
| 17:56.15 | Bagginsww | its rare |
| 17:56.20 | Bagginsww | but in some cases can happen |
| 17:56.36 | Kirkburn | yay we have an error screen :P |
| 17:56.36 | Bagginsww | viable was my paraphrase |
| 17:57.06 | Bagginsww | *verison should be deleted, don't know what I was typing |
| 17:57.13 | Bagginsww | version? not sure |
| 17:57.14 | Bagginsww | :p |
| 17:57.26 | Bagginsww | tlakign should be "talking ;p |
| 18:00.09 | Bagginsww | ok african bee is a subspecies of european honey bee, so that's not ane xample |
| 18:00.15 | Bagginsww | *example |
| 18:01.32 | Kirkburn | Site back! |
| 18:02.08 | DuTempete | donkies and horses, Bagginsww? |
| 18:02.17 | laindir | nonviable |
| 18:02.20 | DuTempete | They can breed, but their offspring are infertile I beleve |
| 18:02.23 | Bagginsww | ya |
| 18:02.33 | Bagginsww | mule :p |
| 18:03.10 | DuTempete | there's some kind of mix between two horse-like animals that has that situation |
| 18:03.17 | Kirkburn | Is it me, or has the wowwiki icon got messed up? |
| 18:03.32 | Bagginsww | or the other is a hinny apparently |
| 18:03.36 | Bagginsww | depends on what you mate |
| 18:03.38 | Kaso | which icom Kirkburn ? |
| 18:03.44 | Bagginsww | male horse to female donkey |
| 18:03.44 | Bagginsww | etc |
| 18:03.49 | Bagginsww | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly-polar_bear_hybrid |
| 18:03.51 | DuTempete | looks fine to me, Kirkburn |
| 18:03.53 | Bagginsww | now I've read about that |
| 18:04.04 | Bagginsww | I've heard its even a viable offspring |
| 18:04.04 | Kirkburn | The W stamp ... given that it hasn't changed on pages I didn't reload I must be going crazy :P |
| 18:04.06 | Bagginsww | but not sure |
| 18:04.17 | Bagginsww | haven't read throught eh entire article tos ee if it mentions |
| 18:04.43 | Bagginsww | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule#Fertile_mules |
| 18:04.46 | Bagginsww | hmm |
| 18:05.05 | *** join/#wowwiki Bodhi (n=Bodhi@p57BA3A83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:05.28 | Bagginsww | genetics are strange ;) |
| 18:07.23 | Bagginsww | In China in 1981, a hinny mare proved fertile with a donkey stallion. Scientists expected a 100% donkey foal if the female hinny had passed on her maternal chromosomes the same way as female mules do. However, when the Chinese hinny was bred to a donkey jack, she produced "Dragon Foal," who resembles a donkey with mule-like features. Dragon Foal's chromosomes and DNA tests confirmed that she was a previously undocumented combinati |
| 18:07.24 | Bagginsww | on, not 50% donkey, from her donkey father, and 50% horse, from her hinny mother. Instead of each gene pair being donkey-horse, with one left over, Dragon Foal has a combination of gene pairs that are donkey-horse and donkey-donkey, with one left over. Her hinny mother passed along a combination of horse and donkey genes. |
| 18:07.25 | Bagginsww | In Morocco in 2003, a mule mare bred to a donkey stallion produced a male foal that was 75% donkey and 25% horse, rather than the expected 50%/50% if the mule mare had passed on her maternal chromosones, which are 100% horse, in the usual way. DNA testing revealed the Moroccan foal is a mixed karyotype hybrid like the Chinese hinny offspring, Dragon Foal. This means that, unlike regular hinnies, whose 63 chromosomes consist of 31 |
| 18:07.30 | Bagginsww | pairs that are horse-donkey with one left over, the Morocco colt has about 23 pairs of chromosomes that are donkey-donkey, eight pairs that are horse-donkey, and one left over. |
| 18:07.33 | Bagginsww | very strange |
| 18:08.25 | pcj | how exciting |
| 18:08.44 | laindir | pcj, lol |
| 18:09.14 | equirapt1r | Are you familiar with the "gene mixing" that apparently goes on durring miosis, Bagginsww? |
| 18:09.24 | Bagginsww | tiny bit yes |
| 18:10.05 | equirapt1r | It sounds like Dragon Foal is a good clue/example/whatever of that. |
| 18:10.36 | laindir | in any case, my webster's unabridged lists about the same number of entries for "noninter-" as "uninter-" ...most for the same root. unortunately no listing for interfertile under either |
| 18:10.48 | Bagginsww | lol |
| 18:10.53 | Bagginsww | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29 |
| 18:11.00 | Bagginsww | well that gives a list of fertile hybrids |
| 18:11.10 | Bagginsww | some that are seperate species |
| 18:11.26 | Bagginsww | well not a list of fertile, but a list, that includes fertile hybrids |
| 18:11.49 | Bagginsww | time to interwiki |
| 18:12.59 | Bagginsww | alright what's the interwiki command? |
| 18:13.04 | Bagginsww | format I mean |
| 18:13.23 | pcj | [[wikipedia:FSM]] |
| 18:13.24 | [NewsBot] | pcj meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/wikipedia:FSM |
| 18:13.48 | Bagginsww | thanks |
| 18:15.29 | Bagginsww | of course one thing I notice is that all hybrids have to at least be withint eh same genus ;) |
| 18:15.41 | Bagginsww | so no cogs or dats |
| 18:16.03 | pcj | or catdogs |
| 18:16.12 | laindir | right, similar number of chromosomes is pretty much required ~.^ |
| 18:17.27 | *** join/#wowwiki sannse (n=me@wikimedia/pdpc.active.sannse) |
| 18:17.27 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o sannse] by ChanServ |
| 18:17.36 | Bagginsww | maybe through genetic engineering :p |
| 18:17.55 | laindir | to be honest, genetics is a little beyond my experience, I'm much safer discussing etymology |
| 18:18.09 | Bagginsww | but it would force having to insert some kind of dummy chromosomes, I'd think |
| 18:18.14 | Bagginsww | like in Jurassic park |
| 18:18.24 | Bagginsww | filling in space with frog chromosomes :p |
| 18:18.34 | Bagginsww | if that would work at all :p |
| 18:18.56 | laindir | I don't think that was a case of complete chromosome replacement... more of gene completion |
| 18:19.04 | Bagginsww | true |
| 18:19.04 | laindir | short gaps in an individual chromosome |
| 18:20.07 | Bagginsww | http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,757859,00.html lol |
| 18:20.11 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@wikia/pansola) |
| 18:20.46 | Bagginsww | 1937 LOL |
| 18:21.14 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: The Art of War(craft): Warsong Gulch, the Broken Battleground - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/the-art-of-war-craft-warsong-gulch-the-broken-battleground/ |
| 18:24.33 | *** join/#wowwiki vargran (n=naquad@78.26.140.74) |
| 18:24.37 | vargran | hi everyone |
| 18:24.58 | Teomyr | hi vargran! |
| 18:25.36 | vargran | got a stupid question: some say that there's a quest in Ashenvale which allows you to get bear form even when you aren't a druid. where do I get this quest? |
| 18:25.58 | laindir | it's actually an item that transforms you into a furbolg, not a bear |
| 18:26.20 | laindir | it's the chain called Rayne's Cleansing available to alliance |
| 18:26.22 | vargran | then I understood something wrong :( anyway |
| 18:26.39 | vargran | thank you went reading thottbot :) |
| 18:26.43 | Teomyr | [[Quest:Raene's Cleansing]] |
| 18:26.43 | [NewsBot] | Teomyr meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Raene's_Cleansing |
| 18:27.34 | vargran | thanks again :) |
| 18:31.02 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/Lands_of_Conflict |
| 18:31.08 | Bagginsww | you know that chart is imcomplete |
| 18:31.15 | Bagginsww | we probably don't even need it |
| 18:31.23 | Bagginsww | I've added all the related data on each page anyways |
| 18:42.34 | vargran | laindir: about Rayne's Cleansing when I get damage I get back a human form :( are there any ways to keep the form? |
| 18:42.44 | laindir | nope |
| 18:43.07 | Teomyr | unfortunately not, that's been nerfed many patches ago |
| 18:43.23 | vargran | :( |
| 18:43.36 | vargran | pity I wanted to change the form and fight in it |
| 18:44.05 | vargran | I'm a mage, so got problems with armor and hp - dying pretty fast if croud jumps attacks me |
| 18:45.31 | Teomyr | well, but what would that furbolg form change about it? it's just for looks ;) |
| 18:45.57 | vargran | pitty |
| 18:46.12 | vargran | I need something that can increase my hp at least |
| 18:49.28 | Fisker- | YOU BE DEAD LOL |
| 18:49.42 | Fisker- | yay |
| 18:49.45 | Teomyr|dead | ohnoes |
| 19:00.05 | *** join/#wowwiki Keolah (n=zenkeola@c-76-115-22-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.50 | *** join/#wowwiki Mmartian43 (n=mmartian@216.184.12.230.unused.swcp.com) |
| 19:07.31 | Mmartian43 | I just wanted to appologize to any admins here for uploading two consecutive bad icons...sorry |
| 19:09.13 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: WoW TCG World Championships wrapup - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/wow-tcg-world-championships-wrapup/ |
| 19:10.21 | Mmartian43 | Oh, I just went back and the Holiday_BeerfestPretzel looks fine now, w00t! |
| 19:10.40 | Kirkburn | Mmartian43, :) |
| 19:10.46 | Kirkburn | Welcome |
| 19:10.52 | Teomyr | i was actually wondering what you were referring to :P |
| 19:11.10 | Kirkburn | Don't worry, headbiting day was yesterday :O |
| 19:11.31 | Mmartian43 | I couldn't find the history with the name of the admin that had to delete my first entry. |
| 19:11.55 | *** join/#wowwiki laindir (n=laindir@74-136-99-200.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:12.21 | Mmartian43 | ttfn |
| 19:12.24 | *** part/#wowwiki Mmartian43 (n=mmartian@216.184.12.230.unused.swcp.com) |
| 19:22.47 | ralfWORK | So we get to try Prince tonigh |
| 19:22.49 | ralfWORK | *t |
| 19:25.23 | ralfWORK | worried about whether we have DPS |
| 19:25.37 | ralfWORK | not sure if we should do 2 healers or 3 :P |
| 19:26.23 | ralfWORK | depending on that would determine if I respec holy |
| 19:33.05 | Kirkburn | ralfWORK, personally I would just see how it goes |
| 19:34.56 | ralfWORK | Kirkburn: if I do the numbers, we need 460dps per DPS slot if we have 6 |
| 19:35.07 | ralfWORK | with 5 slots, it'd need to be 550 |
| 19:35.44 | ralfWORK | we... don't have that, I don't think |
| 19:36.02 | ralfWORK | we usually have 1 person below 300dps |
| 19:36.10 | ralfWORK | others are 350-500 |
| 19:37.03 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 19:37.10 | ralfWORK | yea :) |
| 19:37.34 | ralfWORK | plus we are melee heavy |
| 19:37.44 | ralfWORK | so the running around is gonna murder our DPS I think |
| 19:38.29 | ralfWORK | the DPS numbers are based upon 2 minutes in phase 3 |
| 19:38.45 | ralfWORK | before it's infernal hell for everyone |
| 19:39.17 | laindir | infernal's do despawn gradually...it's just about leaving yourself escape routes so you don't get boxed in |
| 19:39.29 | ralfWORK | right, sure |
| 19:39.35 | ralfWORK | and when they are up for 180s |
| 19:39.38 | ralfWORK | and drop every 15 |
| 19:39.49 | ralfWORK | at 2 minutes, that's exactly what'll happen |
| 19:39.55 | ralfWORK | (if I'm reading this right) |
| 19:40.23 | ralfWORK | hey uhm... the axes in P3 |
| 19:40.27 | ralfWORK | do you kill them? |
| 19:40.41 | laindir | no, just have to drop a little raid healing here and there |
| 19:40.45 | ralfWORK | or do they just go away after they whack on whoever is getting hit |
| 19:40.49 | ralfWORK | ok |
| 19:42.08 | ralfWORK | this is me in shadow gear fwiw: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Elune&n=Nightface |
| 19:42.43 | ralfWORK | if I go holy, I'll be at about 1700 bonus healing and with oil I'll break 225 mp5 |
| 19:42.48 | laindir | in my opinion, getting through phase two quickly is less about infernals and more about keeping the tank alive... I've seen him get a string of crushes on a flurry... |
| 19:43.06 | ralfWORK | I'm scared of those crushes |
| 19:43.18 | ralfWORK | esp. as they are basically inevitable |
| 19:43.27 | ralfWORK | we don't have any shaman |
| 19:43.34 | ralfWORK | so heroism isn't an option, sadly |
| 19:48.51 | ralfWORK | laindir: so, 2 healers or 3? :( |
| 19:49.11 | ltcolumbo | are you talking about the infernos everyone has to stand in the same cell to minimize damage? |
| 19:49.27 | ltcolumbo | adjacent to it? |
| 19:49.38 | ralfWORK | ltcolumbo: talking about phase 3 |
| 19:49.42 | ralfWORK | specifically |
| 19:49.52 | ltcolumbo | is that the same instance? |
| 19:50.00 | ltcolumbo | I'm thinking about? |
| 19:50.07 | ralfWORK | phase 3, the infernos drop every 15s |
| 19:50.15 | ltcolumbo | oh Karazan |
| 19:50.21 | ralfWORK | in about 2 minutes, the entire area will be covered |
| 19:50.21 | laindir | I have to agree with Kirkburn on this one... see how it goes |
| 19:50.22 | ralfWORK | yes |
| 19:50.23 | ltcolumbo | the Prince |
| 19:50.25 | ralfWORK | lol |
| 19:50.30 | ltcolumbo | yeah, I've done that one lots of times |
| 19:50.38 | ltcolumbo | it's all about placement |
| 19:50.53 | Kirkburn | And I've only ever been in Hellfire Citadel since 60 :P |
| 19:50.55 | ralfWORK | laindir: "see how it goes" would mean 2 healers then :) |
| 19:51.17 | ralfWORK | any idea if the safe zones are still safe? |
| 19:51.26 | laindir | if your dps is usually the weak ping (i.e. you have a strong tank and healers) then 2 could be fine |
| 19:51.37 | laindir | if you're all roughly equal, then 3 might be wise |
| 19:51.46 | ltcolumbo | I stopped raiding right before they added all those Badges of Justices there |
| 19:51.53 | ltcolumbo | I guess I should raid again |
| 19:52.09 | ralfWORK | laindir: thing is, I'm the strongest healer when I'm holy and the strongest DPS when I'm shadow :P |
| 19:53.00 | laindir | mainly though, the fight is about coordination... predicting where infernals are landing with enough time to move... and making sure nobody dies to shadow nova |
| 19:53.25 | ltcolumbo | they should fall back when getting that stat effect anyway |
| 19:53.31 | ralfWORK | well, we usually have to PUG a couple ppl. Depending on who we bring in will depend on whether I stay on top, but whatever |
| 19:53.32 | ltcolumbo | and not get in the fire zones |
| 19:54.09 | laindir | it's just gonna take practice... if you're comfortable doing most of kara with 2 healers, then I'd say it's definitely worth trying prince that way |
| 19:54.16 | ralfWORK | on the other hand, if we can get to phase 3, I guess that's a good problem to have :) |
| 19:54.44 | ralfWORK | well, strange thing is |
| 19:54.49 | ralfWORK | last 2 weeks we've done 3 healers |
| 19:54.54 | ralfWORK | and that's brought us to prince |
| 19:55.01 | ltcolumbo | we usualy just had 2 |
| 19:55.14 | ralfWORK | I tried it as shadow, |
| 19:55.28 | ltcolumbo | 3rd as shadow priest |
| 19:55.34 | ltcolumbo | but he was dps mainly |
| 19:55.37 | ralfWORK | and in my opinion, having a 2nd priest is a larger benifit than having a 3rd healer |
| 19:55.41 | ralfWORK | yea |
| 19:55.43 | ralfWORK | I have great gear for both |
| 19:55.57 | ralfWORK | moroes and maiden come to mind |
| 19:55.59 | *** join/#wowwiki ngerakines (i=gerakine@nat/yahoo/x-70865bfad9648b76) |
| 19:56.11 | ralfWORK | where it's good to have a 2nd shackle and 2nd dispeler |
| 19:56.16 | ralfWORK | (other healer is resto druid) |
| 19:56.32 | foxlit | 3 healers for prince = <3 |
| 19:56.47 | ralfWORK | heh. k. |
| 19:56.57 | foxlit | Phase 2 eats mana like there's no tomorrow |
| 19:57.25 | foxlit | Then again, depends on gear. the last time I did prince was probably around 6 months ago |
| 19:57.29 | ralfWORK | so I should stay shadow ;) |
| 19:57.30 | ltcolumbo | you guys use boss mod? |
| 19:57.35 | ralfWORK | yea, DBM |
| 19:57.46 | ltcolumbo | cool |
| 19:57.56 | ralfWORK | well let me rephrase |
| 19:57.58 | ralfWORK | I use it |
| 19:58.02 | ltcolumbo | what server you play on? |
| 19:58.04 | *** join/#wowwiki Paradox (n=Paradox@spc1-brmb4-0-0-cust625.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 19:58.06 | foxlit | Mostly useless :) |
| 19:58.10 | ralfWORK | the other R-tards in the group... I dunno :) |
| 19:58.14 | ltcolumbo | it helps really |
| 19:58.25 | ralfWORK | ltcolumbo: Elune, Ally |
| 19:58.35 | ltcolumbo | oh, Daggerspine Horde |
| 19:58.38 | ltcolumbo | for me |
| 19:58.45 | ltcolumbo | I don't like Daggerspine though |
| 19:58.59 | foxlit | ltcolumbo: how so? |
| 19:59.13 | ltcolumbo | hard to get decent groups to instance |
| 19:59.17 | ltcolumbo | tanks are hard to find |
| 19:59.21 | foxlit | no |
| 19:59.30 | ltcolumbo | people are kind of harsh |
| 19:59.31 | foxlit | not that part :) |
| 19:59.32 | foxlit | ltcolumbo: it helps really |
| 19:59.41 | ltcolumbo | foxlit: boss mod |
| 20:00.26 | foxlit | Yeah. |
| 20:00.30 | foxlit | How does it help, really? |
| 20:01.43 | foxlit | And why is http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Interface_customization in WW: per WW:NAME? |
| 20:02.16 | Kirkburn | It's a portal page, not an article :) |
| 20:02.39 | Kirkburn | Strictly speaking, the Main Page should join it, but it's too much of a change |
| 20:02.43 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/Gameplay |
| 20:02.58 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/Guides |
| 20:03.16 | Kirkburn | Indeed those should become portals too at some point |
| 20:04.04 | Kirkburn | The VP's first topic briefly covers it |
| 20:04.46 | foxlit | Wasn't evident from WW:NAME, which was annoying |
| 20:05.13 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Mike Morhaime on the Activision Blizzard merger - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/mike-morhaime-on-the-activision-blizzard-merger/ |
| 20:10.10 | ltcolumbo | foxlit: it helps to see the status times |
| 20:10.15 | ltcolumbo | of events |
| 20:10.18 | ltcolumbo | skills |
| 20:10.20 | ltcolumbo | etc |
| 20:10.27 | ltcolumbo | how is it NOT useful? |
| 20:10.30 | ltcolumbo | damn |
| 20:10.52 | foxlit | Most of the timers shown are unimportant at best |
| 20:10.59 | ltcolumbo | I don't think so |
| 20:11.06 | foxlit | everything that isn't is flashed in your face through default UI already |
| 20:11.17 | ralfWORK | hrm will DBM tell me when I'm out of range of shadowbolt? :P |
| 20:11.23 | ralfWORK | (on Prince) |
| 20:11.25 | foxlit | I'd rather it not |
| 20:11.57 | foxlit | There's no shadowbolt on prince, though? |
| 20:12.02 | ralfWORK | sorry |
| 20:12.04 | ltcolumbo | no there isn't |
| 20:12.09 | ralfWORK | uhm... shadow nova |
| 20:12.21 | ltcolumbo | that usualy isn't a problem |
| 20:12.35 | ltcolumbo | unless you're stupid |
| 20:12.45 | ralfWORK | if I stay shadow, I'll have to be inside it's range to mindflay, iirc |
| 20:13.28 | laindir | he always enfeebles shortly before nova, so a bunch of people will turn purple in time for you to run out :) |
| 20:13.46 | foxlit | It's even easier |
| 20:13.49 | foxlit | If you're not purple |
| 20:13.52 | foxlit | You can just eat the nova |
| 20:14.03 | ralfWORK | is that generally how it's done? |
| 20:14.10 | ralfWORK | if you're not enfeebled, eat the nova? |
| 20:14.24 | laindir | you CAN eat the noave, but the knockback into an infernal can be icky |
| 20:15.18 | foxlit | Yeah, don't land in bad places :P |
| 20:15.56 | ralfWORK | so eat the nova or no? |
| 20:16.03 | ralfWORK | (generally) |
| 20:16.17 | foxlit | Rule 2: Don't die. |
| 20:16.30 | ralfWORK | yea, ok. |
| 20:16.36 | foxlit | Rule 3: In not dying, don't kill anyone else |
| 20:16.50 | foxlit | Rule 19: Always remember Rule One. |
| 20:18.11 | ralfWORK | mmhm |
| 20:33.11 | *** join/#wowwiki FireSide (n=jlindsey@24-155-89-201.ip.grandenetworks.net) |
| 20:34.59 | *** join/#wowwiki Krolmor (n=superbuf@189-68-174-121.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 20:35.08 | Krolmor | g'day. |
| 20:35.29 | Kirkburn | morning |
| 20:35.48 | Krolmor | Uh I wanna ask something ehre for all of those on PVP realms... does it happen a lot that hi-levels come to newbie contested lands and kill the crap outta them? |
| 20:36.21 | ralfWORK | rofl |
| 20:36.22 | Kirkburn | Not really any more |
| 20:36.37 | Krolmor | what do you mean, "any more" x.X ? |
| 20:36.47 | ralfWORK | I think he means |
| 20:37.02 | ralfWORK | "now that he's killed them all, there's no point in doing it again till they respawn" ;) |
| 20:37.07 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 20:37.26 | Kirkburn | Alternatively, that it occured early on in WoW's life, but people got bored of it :P |
| 20:37.30 | Gryphen | i never had a problem on PvP realm. only people who have a problem are those newbies who don't conceede and leave the area for a while. |
| 20:38.05 | ralfWORK | note: this is why I stay on PVE realm :D |
| 20:38.29 | Krolmor | hmm |
| 20:38.46 | Krolmor | I see... however, how's pvp on PvE realms? It strikes me as sorta.... dead. |
| 20:38.58 | Krolmor | outside arenas or other forms of contained combat I mean |
| 20:39.01 | ralfWORK | the idea of getting ganked while standing outside SM isn't my idea of fun |
| 20:39.09 | ralfWORK | krol: walk around flagged |
| 20:39.14 | ralfWORK | and you tell me :) |
| 20:39.28 | Gryphen | the idea at not ganking while standing around outside SM seems boring |
| 20:39.38 | ralfWORK | rofl |
| 20:39.40 | Krolmor | lol xD but that's exactly what I mean, do ANY people walk around flagged |
| 20:39.41 | Kirkburn | PvP on PvE realms is sorta dead, cause it's not the point of the realm :P |
| 20:40.02 | Kirkburn | Arenas and BGs are a different matter, of course :) |
| 20:40.10 | ralfWORK | Gryphen: you must not have a holy/resto anything :) |
| 20:40.48 | Krolmor | Eh, I always thought of toggling stealth mode and RAPING random people in the middle of contested lands, but I always thought of them as equal levels |
| 20:41.08 | Gryphen | nope, moonkin and rogue |
| 20:41.09 | Krolmor | never really thought about the hi-lo problem. |
| 20:41.19 | ralfWORK | yea, people who have rogues love to gank :) |
| 20:41.32 | ralfWORK | or maybe it's vice-versa |
| 20:41.39 | Krolmor | heheh |
| 20:41.54 | Krolmor | going to switch to Ysera, I wonder how it is over there |
| 20:42.01 | Gryphen | today though on PvP realms the population of the lowbie contested areas are such that they are boring for high level gankers waiting for some lowbie to come along after a few hours |
| 20:42.11 | Krolmor | ah I see |
| 20:43.15 | Krolmor | thanks everyone :> |
| 20:43.42 | *** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 20:43.42 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:52.01 | Krolmor | and uhm... what would be a good profession to complement a rogue? I've heard alchemy and herbalism work well, but the buffs didn't seem that awesome to me.. probably because I'm a mad newbie |
| 20:52.20 | Krolmor | also... can you make ANY money with it? or would lw/skinning be a better choice? |
| 20:53.06 | Krolmor | (sorry for asking so much crap) |
| 21:00.57 | ralfWORK | gathering professions generally make the money |
| 21:01.28 | ralfWORK | there's some interesting end game stuff you can make if you leatherwork |
| 21:01.43 | *** join/#wowwiki Keolah (n=zenkeola@c-76-115-22-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:01.49 | ralfWORK | and some interesting weapons you can craft if you go blacksmith |
| 21:02.17 | ralfWORK | I don't have a rogue, so I don't know exactly how great either are, but w/e |
| 21:04.26 | Krolmor | but lw equipments are mostly bind on pickup right? |
| 21:04.47 | ralfWORK | I don't know |
| 21:04.53 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-94.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:05.00 | ralfWORK | if it's your first toon |
| 21:05.07 | ralfWORK | I'd stick with 2 gathering prof |
| 21:05.08 | ralfWORK | s |
| 21:05.13 | ralfWORK | till maybe 40 or 60 |
| 21:06.01 | Krolmor | :o |
| 21:06.43 | Krolmor | it's because I'm aprt of a group, so we're all taking one crafting/ one gatherng |
| 21:06.46 | Krolmor | gathering* |
| 21:06.53 | ralfWORK | mmkay |
| 21:07.05 | ralfWORK | I don't know how profitable skinning is |
| 21:07.12 | ralfWORK | but you could do skinning/lw |
| 21:07.46 | Krolmor | cool :) thanks! |
| 21:07.54 | laindir | don't, I did that on my first toon... I spent way too much getting non-skinning mats... I had to reroll a miner/bs just to make enough gold for the first toon's mount |
| 21:08.30 | ralfWORK | whatever you do |
| 21:08.35 | ralfWORK | don't do mining/herbing |
| 21:08.37 | ralfWORK | together |
| 21:08.46 | ralfWORK | I rolled an alt to do that |
| 21:08.47 | laindir | lol, yeah... can only track one on the minimap at a time |
| 21:08.57 | ralfWORK | and thought that would be a GREAT money maker |
| 21:09.01 | laindir | pairing one with skinning is far better |
| 21:09.13 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: Ghost Wolf taming is here to stay - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/ghost-wolf-taming-is-here-to-stay/ |
| 21:09.17 | ralfWORK | then I /headdesk when I grew a brain |
| 21:09.26 | ralfWORK | and realized you can't track 2 :P |
| 21:10.10 | ralfWORK | I don't advise enchanting either |
| 21:10.20 | ralfWORK | huge money sink |
| 21:10.31 | ralfWORK | when you level up, sure |
| 21:10.43 | ralfWORK | but I did tailoring/enchanting on my priest |
| 21:10.53 | laindir | it's great for a second or third toon, when you have a high level to farm greens |
| 21:10.59 | ralfWORK | nice because you don't need a profession to support them |
| 21:11.11 | laindir | yes, they pair well together :) |
| 21:11.14 | ralfWORK | you DE armor, |
| 21:11.28 | ralfWORK | and cloth drops off mobs so |
| 21:11.44 | Krolmor | o.o |
| 21:12.08 | ralfWORK | of course, tailoring would be retarded on a rogue |
| 21:12.26 | laindir | haha, my tailor enchanter is a warrior XD |
| 21:12.27 | Krolmor | i tried enchanting / tailoring on my lv 16 mage. it got to 30. -.- |
| 21:12.29 | kadrahil | i saw a hunter with tailoring |
| 21:12.30 | *** join/#wowwiki PanSola (n=pu@208-106-104-170.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 21:12.41 | ralfWORK | I've seen warriors tailor |
| 21:12.43 | kadrahil | he was using teh mana loom in cenarion refuge |
| 21:12.47 | kadrahil | i wanted to aim shot him in the face :( |
| 21:12.48 | ralfWORK | and I just don't get it |
| 21:12.56 | ralfWORK | when I asked why |
| 21:13.01 | ralfWORK | he said "to make bags" |
| 21:13.06 | kadrahil | lol? |
| 21:13.14 | ralfWORK | lul :( |
| 21:13.21 | kadrahil | farming cloth is 2hard |
| 21:13.31 | kadrahil | and paying someone else 5g |
| 21:13.41 | ralfWORK | hah well |
| 21:13.48 | ralfWORK | my wife sends me all the cloth she gets |
| 21:13.53 | Teomyr | i remember leveling a warlock to 35 just to make mooncloth |
| 21:14.08 | ralfWORK | Teomyr: that's a decent idea |
| 21:14.14 | ralfWORK | this was a 70 warrior though :P |
| 21:14.20 | Teomyr | heh |
| 21:14.31 | *** join/#wowwiki Michelle_ (n=chatzill@S010600179a4ea5ee.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 21:14.33 | ralfWORK | I have a 40 something drood I don't play |
| 21:14.38 | ralfWORK | thought about having him make cloth too |
| 21:14.41 | Teomyr | well |
| 21:14.42 | Michelle_ | hello |
| 21:14.49 | Teomyr | at least that's what i intended that warlock to be |
| 21:15.00 | Teomyr | level 62 now |
| 21:15.02 | Michelle_ | i was wondering, where can i get macro assistance |
| 21:15.08 | ralfWORK | lol |
| 21:15.26 | laindir | I can help you... msg me |
| 21:15.26 | Michelle_ | my macro doesnt seem to be working teh way i intend it to work |
| 21:15.28 | ralfWORK | Teomyr: well, at least if you get him to 70, you have a trade that's usefull to him :) |
| 21:15.34 | Teomyr | Michelle_: #wowi-lounge is the place for interface stuff in general |
| 21:16.04 | Teomyr | ralfWORK: yeah, true ;) |
| 21:16.06 | Michelle_ | teomyr, can you make the a URL that i cna relink form my bookmarks? |
| 21:16.33 | Teomyr | Michelle_: a URL for what? |
| 21:16.46 | Michelle_ | well i used irc://chat.freenode.net/wowwiki to get to thsi channel |
| 21:16.54 | Teomyr | ah, okay |
| 21:16.57 | Michelle_ | woudl i just change that last part to mak a shortcut to that channel |
| 21:17.04 | Teomyr | just type /join #wowi-lounge |
| 21:17.12 | Teomyr | or use irc://chat.freenode.net/wowi-lounge |
| 21:17.19 | ralfWORK | l2irc? |
| 21:17.55 | Michelle_ | thanks |
| 21:26.13 | *** join/#wowwiki Chompers (n=Chomp@cpc2-cove7-0-0-cust20.brhm.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:28.14 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 21:28.14 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 21:32.30 | *** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.179) |
| 21:32.36 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 21:32.36 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 21:37.08 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: The Art of War(craft): Warsong Gulch, the Broken Battleground - |
| 21:47.31 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=MrSubtle@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 21:47.31 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 21:49.03 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 21:49.03 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 21:52.13 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 21:52.13 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 22:06.09 | zeal | hm.. today seems to be an uneventful one while i slept :S |
| 22:12.14 | Kirkburn | omg, finally! |
| 22:12.19 | Kirkburn | BioShock patch is incoming |
| 22:12.26 | Kirkburn | With extra content :) |
| 22:12.35 | pcj | !wwstats |
| 22:12.36 | *** part/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 22:12.40 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 22:12.40 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 22:13.01 | [NewsBot] | mIRCStats for #wowwiki updated by pcj! See the #wowwiki stats: http://www.bxd.dk/irc/freenode/wowwiki.html |
| 22:18.13 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 22:18.13 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 22:32.15 | Fisker- | old Kirkburn |
| 22:32.19 | Fisker- | and !care(); :( |
| 22:32.32 | Fisker- | if it was 4 months ago people might've cared |
| 22:32.58 | Fisker- | Kane & Lynch > Bioshock |
| 22:33.22 | Fisker- | and i'm not kidding |
| 22:33.38 | Fisker- | i've enjoyed K&L a lot more than i ever enjoyed Bioshock or are going to enjoy bioshock |
| 22:33.54 | Fisker- | Luckily the devteam already showed their disappointment towards Ken Levine |
| 22:34.11 | Fisker- | not that it'll get me to consider buying one of their products |
| 22:45.53 | *** join/#wowwiki mattswell (n=mattswel@nom13665cmd.nomadic.ncsu.edu) |
| 22:46.17 | mattswell | any channel dedicated to development? |
| 22:49.04 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 22:49.04 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 22:49.24 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-81-94.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:51.09 | bleeter | mattswell: mod/macro stuff is generally in #wowi-lounge, or if using the wow ace architecture, #wowace |
| 22:51.17 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 22:51.17 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.13 | mattswell | trying to write my own mod, considered using ace, but i think my problem atm wouldn't involve ace |
| 22:52.23 | *** join/#wowwiki equi (n=equirapt@mail.perseuslabs.com) |
| 22:56.23 | Kirkburn | mattswell, welcome to the channel btw |
| 22:56.41 | mattswell | thanks :D |
| 22:57.39 | mattswell | attempting to rewrite dispatch and make it useful for pvp servers |
| 23:00.46 | bleeter | wtf is baggins when I wanna ask a serious question |
| 23:01.13 | bleeter | "are there any references in game, or lore, to David Bowie's song 'The laughing gnome'?" |
| 23:02.02 | bleeter | Kirkburn: OMG! GOODIES RADIO TIME!!! |
| 23:03.05 | bleeter | one of the better grinding tunes of all time, but I suspect that's 'coz of The Goodies reference... thoughts/comments, Kirkburn? |
| 23:03.12 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 23:03.56 | Kirkburn | Do The Funky Gibbon |
| 23:05.45 | bleeter | CMON EVERYBODY IT'S GIBBON TIME!!!! |
| 23:08.15 | bleeter | Kirkburn: now could ya gimme an OO? |
| 23:08.35 | Kirkburn | ooh ooh! |
| 23:08.40 | bleeter | Kirkburn: now could ya gimme another OO? |
| 23:08.51 | Kirkburn | ooh ooh! |
| 23:08.58 | bleeter | put 'em together an wat have ya got? |
| 23:09.07 | bleeter | oooh oooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh oooh |
| 23:09.32 | Kirkburn | :D |
| 23:09.39 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=Sky2042@c-76-105-227-156.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 23:09.40 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 23:10.01 | Sky2042 | feeling stupid... how do you change the bg color to transparent? |
| 23:10.40 | pcj | background-color: transparent; |
| 23:10.40 | Kirkburn | background-color:transparent |
| 23:10.42 | bleeter | Kirkburn: COME BACK! |
| 23:10.47 | Sky2042 | gah |
| 23:10.50 | Sky2042 | that's what i had |
| 23:10.54 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 23:10.55 | pcj | on what sky |
| 23:11.06 | Kirkburn | I'm humoured that gallery broke after about 20 images |
| 23:11.08 | Sky2042 | ah |
| 23:11.10 | Sky2042 | nvm |
| 23:11.15 | Sky2042 | hmm |
| 23:11.25 | Sky2042 | yes, that will do nicely |
| 23:11.31 | bleeter | and the award for this year's most promising beanstalk... |
| 23:11.34 | Kirkburn | So by attempting to fix the concept art gallery on WotLK half of them were missing |
| 23:12.27 | bleeter | btw, folks, if you really wanna know Kirkburn ... |
| 23:12.31 | bleeter | ... look at his shoes! |
| 23:12.34 | bleeter | SHINY SHOES! |
| 23:14.34 | Kirkburn | Shuny. |
| 23:14.37 | Kirkburn | *shiny >_> |
| 23:15.04 | Kirkburn | Why in hell was {{gallery}} on the boilerplate ... |
| 23:15.51 | bleeter | There's a song that I recall... my mother sang to me. |
| 23:16.09 | bleeter | She sang it as she tucked me in... when I was ninety-three. |
| 23:16.58 | bleeter | Ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong iddle I po! |
| 23:17.08 | bleeter | Kirkburn: keep up lad! |
| 23:18.07 | Kirkburn | :( |
| 23:25.56 | Sky2042 | kill teh gallery! |
| 23:25.58 | Sky2042 | you go! |
| 23:27.27 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 23:31.43 | Sky2042 | lol, kirkburn |
| 23:31.51 | Sky2042 | "Death to gallery" |
| 23:31.56 | Sky2042 | poor foxlit |
| 23:32.08 | foxlit | moo_ |
| 23:32.25 | foxlit | {{galler}} > <galery> |
| 23:32.25 | [NewsBot] | foxlit meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:galler |
| 23:32.34 | foxlit | hah |
| 23:32.36 | foxlit | typoed both! |
| 23:32.38 | Kirkburn | It's more that it was being used in completely inappropriate places |
| 23:32.47 | foxlit | which boilerplate? |
| 23:34.03 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 23:34.03 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 23:34.40 | Kirkburn | The item one |
| 23:34.51 | foxlit | [[Boilerplate:Item]] ? |
| 23:34.51 | [NewsBot] | foxlit meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Boilerplate:Item |
| 23:35.13 | Kirkburn | [[Help:Item articles]] is the name now, iirc |
| 23:35.13 | [NewsBot] | Kirkburn meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Help:Item_articles |
| 23:35.19 | Sky2042 | ouch |
| 23:35.22 | foxlit | It redirects |
| 23:35.43 | foxlit | Anyway, don't see anything? |
| 23:36.02 | foxlit | ah |
| 23:36.04 | foxlit | Nah |
| 23:36.25 | foxlit | There's nothing wrong about {{gallery}} there :/ |
| 23:36.37 | Kirkburn | There seriously is |
| 23:36.46 | Kirkburn | Using gallery for single images is just silly |
| 23:36.57 | foxlit | It'd be thumbnailed anyway |
| 23:37.05 | Kirkburn | For one, it doesn't support captions properly, it doesn't support skins, and it's overly complicated |
| 23:37.24 | foxlit | And <gallery> breaks pages in some situations |
| 23:37.32 | Kirkburn | How so? |
| 23:37.42 | foxlit | Find a long tooltip and a <gallery> |
| 23:37.51 | Kirkburn | It hasn't in any of the situations I've been changing articles on so far |
| 23:38.00 | foxlit | That's because <gallery> isn't generally used |
| 23:38.16 | Kirkburn | Oh, actually you're right it does |
| 23:39.10 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Malorne_Regalia&diff=1018926&oldid=923513 |
| 23:39.23 | foxlit | Looks... awful, at best |
| 23:41.18 | Kirkburn | Wait, now I'm confused |
| 23:41.22 | Kirkburn | On monobook, they clashed |
| 23:41.36 | Kirkburn | On wowwiki, they just get pushed under |
| 23:41.36 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 23:41.36 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 23:42.05 | Kirkburn | Unless that's IE and Fx acting differently |
| 23:43.05 | Kirkburn | Ah, Fx they clash, IE they clear |
| 23:43.19 | foxlit | It's not pretty either way |
| 23:44.00 | foxlit | Fix http://www.wowwiki.com/Malorne_Regalia when you figure out what you want to do, yeah? |
| 23:44.28 | Kirkburn | Reverting those with more than 2 screenshots |
| 23:45.03 | [NewsBot] | WoW Insider: The future of Activision Blizzard - http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/03/the-future-of-activision-blizzard/ |
| 23:45.33 | foxlit | move styling code into stylesheets, templating problem solved? |
| 23:46.07 | Krolmor | JESUS! rogues are so fun. |
| 23:46.11 | Kirkburn | It also needs to support captions and the complication of it doesn't seem avoidable |
| 23:46.24 | Kirkburn | I'm not saying get rid of gallery, but it has restricted use |
| 23:47.06 | foxlit | It plugs them into title=, I think |
| 23:47.23 | Kirkburn | Okay, all ones needing reverting, reverted :) |
| 23:47.33 | foxlit | You can't really support captions while maintaing a flow layout |
| 23:48.46 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (i=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 23:48.46 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 23:49.43 | *** join/#wowwiki [NewsBot] (n=NewsBot@unaffiliated/dotted/bot/newsbot) |
| 23:49.43 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v [NewsBot]] by ChanServ |
| 23:49.59 | Kirkburn | foxlit, can understand that, but that is a reason why it can't be used by default |
