| 00:33.54 | Bagginsww | http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Grom_Hellscream_WoW.jpg bah grom looks horrible :p |
| 00:34.11 | Bagginsww | using generic orc model is so cheap |
| 00:37.36 | willskills | and, err, a comma or two wouldn't hurt |
| 00:37.42 | willskills | in the description text |
| 00:38.07 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-21-113.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:38.11 | willskills | "Grom Hellscream as portrayed in a vision for Garrosh Hellscream to show his father was a hero in the end of his life." - excuse my while I grab a fork and some denture glue :p |
| 00:38.19 | Bagginsww | LOL |
| 00:38.26 | willskills | me* |
| 00:38.28 | willskills | ;P |
| 00:38.43 | willskills | I usually only idle in here |
| 00:38.46 | willskills | just about to log |
| 00:38.54 | willskills | I clicked that link and had to say something :P |
| 00:39.07 | willskills | whoever wrote that, needs beaten with a dictionary, hard. |
| 00:39.11 | Bagginsww | ya |
| 00:39.24 | willskills | Do you guys have anyone editing content? |
| 00:39.33 | willskills | I am assuming english is your first language >< |
| 00:39.39 | Bagginsww | so I saw we take the writer, and the designer who used that model and tar and feather them ;) |
| 00:39.44 | willskills | although that is not immediately obvious :p |
| 00:39.56 | Karrion | willskills: it's a wiki, anyone can edit content |
| 00:40.06 | Bagginsww | wide range of people edit it. |
| 00:40.10 | willskills | Ok |
| 00:40.18 | willskills | they all need beaten with dictionaries :D |
| 00:40.27 | willskills | anyways guys, sorry to intrude! |
| 00:40.33 | Karrion | so, if you want to change it, go right ahead |
| 00:40.34 | Bagginsww | Oxfard or American? |
| 00:40.37 | willskills | g'night from edinburgh ;) |
| 00:40.47 | willskills | I am Scottish mate, born and bred :] |
| 00:40.47 | Bagginsww | *oxford |
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| 01:04.50 | *** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim|work (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 01:12.23 | Hobinheim|work | zeal in the house? |
| 01:12.33 | Hobinheim|work | wow |
| 01:39.02 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 01:59.38 | Hobinheim|work | anybody in the house?: |
| 01:59.46 | Hobinheim|work | i'm going on a bot rampage by myself =( |
| 02:00.11 | Hobinheim | well, i will say this. the wiki is taking it like a champ! |
| 02:07.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Hey Hob |
| 02:07.44 | Hobinheim | yeo captain |
| 02:08.02 | Kirkburn|afk | I went on a delete rampages earlier - rampages are cool P |
| 02:08.04 | Kirkburn|afk | :P |
| 02:08.28 | Hobinheim | haha yeah |
| 02:08.33 | Hobinheim | how did you handle that vendor template? |
| 02:08.36 | Hobinheim | i didnt know what superseded it |
| 02:09.38 | Kirkburn|afk | Vendor template? |
| 02:11.40 | Kirkburn|afk | 1 minute from Classtableall edit to revert and block. Wow, Hob! :) |
| 02:12.04 | Hobinheim | people don't read =( |
| 02:12.18 | Hobinheim | do you watch House? |
| 02:12.20 | Kirkburn|afk | I think that guy was a member of Death and Taxes |
| 02:12.29 | Kirkburn|afk | I want to, but I've never got around to it |
| 02:12.38 | Kirkburn|afk | And now you've just given me an idea of what to download next :P |
| 02:12.58 | Hobinheim | =P |
| 02:13.04 | Hobinheim | DnT isn't immune to reading |
| 02:13.36 | Kirkburn|afk | I know ^^ |
| 02:14.24 | Kirkburn|afk | zomg, all the lquality templates are gone!? |
| 02:16.07 | Hobinheim | yup... that's what i've been working on... |
| 02:16.34 | Hobinheim | you know, voidvector actually completed like 85% of it |
| 02:16.38 | Hobinheim | i was just kinda topping it off |
| 02:18.11 | Hobinheim | the {{bc}} bot will be crazy |
| 02:18.15 | Hobinheim | requires a little intelligence |
| 02:18.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Well the main thing to change atm is to look for any occurences of it, remove them, then replace it back at the start of the article |
| 02:18.53 | Hobinheim | blah i'm tired |
| 02:19.03 | Hobinheim | unless they're in a section |
| 02:19.07 | Hobinheim | which is the inteligence part |
| 02:19.22 | Hobinheim | brb../ |
| 02:19.25 | Kirkburn|afk | kk |
| 02:24.23 | Bagginsww | LOL, armory removes "privacy" |
| 02:25.04 | Bagginsww | wow no privacy at all LOL |
| 02:25.13 | Kirkburn|afk | So true |
| 02:25.26 | Bagginsww | I feel so naked |
| 02:25.54 | Bagginsww | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#character-sheet.xml?r=Gorgonnash&n=Baggins |
| 02:26.17 | Bagginsww | next step they'll show your toon online :p |
| 02:26.21 | Bagginsww | how you look |
| 02:26.41 | Karrion | I love the armory... I can see why people would like an opt out though |
| 02:27.15 | Kirkburn|afk | "Lush" |
| 02:27.23 | Bagginsww | well the thing I see, wrong with it is they don't let you inspect your enemy |
| 02:27.36 | Bagginsww | and yet this site lets you do it |
| 02:27.47 | Bagginsww | so why not let us have ability to inspect enemy in game? |
| 02:28.07 | Karrion | true... though you only see the gear they had on last time they logged out |
| 02:28.20 | Hobinheim|afk | i want to engage in some destructive behavior... |
| 02:28.25 | Hobinheim|afk | barbeque, rice, and soup... |
| 02:28.27 | Hobinheim|afk | mmmm tasty.... |
| 02:28.29 | Bagginsww | LOL |
| 02:29.07 | Hobinheim|afk | i stepped away to get some food but i can't think of anything moderate and nutricious to eat |
| 02:29.45 | Bagginsww | Why aren't my lifetime honorable kills displayed under Achievements? |
| 02:29.45 | Bagginsww | In order to have your lifetime honorable kills displayed, you must have at least 1337 honorable kills. |
| 02:29.46 | Bagginsww | LOL |
| 02:29.53 | Bagginsww | of all the numbers to choose |
| 02:30.00 | Karrion | ROFL |
| 02:30.11 | Hobinheim|afk | love that limit |
| 02:32.24 | Karrion | I love that the armoury is all xml, so you can easily parse it |
| 02:33.09 | Bagginsww | heh |
| 02:46.31 | Kirkburn|afk | Satan Attacks Little Church!! http://i6.tinypic.com/2hpod9j.jpg |
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| 02:47.21 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 02:48.51 | Kirkburn|afk | It's amazing how long some pages have gone untouched |
| 02:49.09 | Kirkburn|afk | The oldest page on the wiki is [[ Shadow Tree ]], 1st Feb 2005 |
| 02:49.26 | Kirkburn|afk | There's 130 pages untouched from 2005 |
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| 02:51.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Meow - http://www.funnyanimalvideos.com/cat-videos/kitten-vs-toilet-paper/ |
| 02:57.40 | Hobinheim|afk | how destructive is PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY!!! |
| 02:58.03 | Hobinheim|afk | you know, the tree itself is actually called "Shadow Magic" in the spellbook |
| 02:59.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Is this f*cking "I can't be bothered to read" day? |
| 03:00.04 | Kirkburn|afk | Hobinheim|afk, check the classtableall page ... |
| 03:00.40 | Hobinheim|afk | heh |
| 03:01.03 | Hobinheim|afk | the snarky language on Choosing a class is a potential problem point also |
| 03:01.11 | Hobinheim|afk | i've been meaning to editor that for a while |
| 03:02.09 | Hobinheim|afk | did you totally block editing? |
| 03:02.16 | Kirkburn|afk | No |
| 03:02.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Just move protection |
| 03:03.36 | Kirkburn|afk | The guy also said mages and rogues are incapable of tanking |
| 03:03.52 | Karrion | evasion ftw |
| 03:03.54 | Kirkburn|afk | (by changing the numbers) |
| 03:04.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Yes. He's an idiot. :) |
| 03:05.15 | Karrion | My Rogue GF evasion tanked Broodlord for like two minutes before I finally pulled aggro back once ;-) |
| 03:05.27 | Karrion | it was hilarious |
| 03:05.43 | Kirkburn|afk | I've seen that type of stuff happen - yeah, it's /awesome/ |
| 03:06.40 | Hobinheim|afk | pigs fly and hutners can melee =) |
| 03:16.37 | Kirkburn|afk | Hobinheim|afk, I've made the warning even more obvious |
| 03:17.07 | Hobinheim|afk | autoban? |
| 03:17.37 | Hobinheim|afk | haha that's neat |
| 03:17.54 | Hobinheim|afk | you know what it is, that stupid edit link |
| 03:18.02 | Hobinheim|afk | i bet you if we got rid of it, that page wouldn't see the light of day |
| 03:18.12 | Hobinheim|afk | cuz let's say you were noob, and you clicked it |
| 03:18.27 | Hobinheim|afk | you wouldn't really... SEE it, unless we added an assload of whitespace to mask where the text is |
| 03:18.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Ah. |
| 03:18.50 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm going to change that ... |
| 03:18.56 | Hobinheim|afk | so i dunno how to swing that. i was trying to give people the benefit of the doubt |
| 03:19.38 | Kirkburn|afk | I have an idea |
| 03:20.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Awesome! |
| 03:20.50 | Kirkburn|afk | It worked :) |
| 03:21.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Made a new template for it |
| 03:21.14 | Kirkburn|afk | Might be an idea to reduce the other guy's ban? |
| 03:21.55 | Kirkburn|afk | I reduced the other guy to 1 day |
| 03:33.51 | Hobinheim|afk | sure |
| 03:33.51 | Hobinheim|afk | sleepy |
| 03:33.51 | Hobinheim|afk | later |
| 03:36.46 | *** join/#wowwiki Okatuos (n=saminedd@host86-136-103-93.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 03:36.55 | Okatuos | Hello There |
| 03:43.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Heh - http://www.superdickery.com/propaganda/32.html |
| 03:43.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Okatuos, hullo! |
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| 03:46.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Tekkub, you around? |
| 03:46.45 | Tekkub | aye |
| 03:46.52 | Kirkburn|afk | What's the Pink Armor thing about? :) |
| 03:46.59 | *** join/#wowwiki _Grem_ (n=Grem@72.243.15.114) |
| 03:47.12 | _Grem_ | Does anyone happen to know the name of the UI frame for the confirm item destroy? |
| 03:47.12 | Tekkub | it's... weird |
| 03:47.35 | Tekkub | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Known_vandals |
| 03:47.54 | Kirkburn|afk | _Grem_, from the channel topic - " UI questions? Join #wowi-lounge " :) |
| 03:48.19 | _Grem_ | Thanks |
| 03:48.30 | _Grem_ | Thought I was in that channel, sorry =) |
| 03:49.06 | Kirkburn|afk | hehe |
| 03:49.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Tekkub, what was the image?? |
| 03:49.29 | Tekkub | thought you could pull it up from the history |
| 03:49.43 | Kirkburn|afk | Once images are deleted, they're gone forever :O |
| 03:49.45 | Tekkub | oh guess not |
| 03:49.54 | Tekkub | it was like pally T5 |
| 03:50.01 | Tekkub | made pink and fluffy |
| 03:50.04 | Tekkub | with a purse |
| 03:50.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh /that/ image |
| 03:50.19 | Kirkburn|afk | Did I delete that? |
| 03:50.28 | Tekkub | no I did |
| 03:50.33 | Kirkburn|afk | I deleted about 5 similar images earlier as I was going through the old images :) |
| 03:50.38 | Tekkub | ah |
| 03:50.51 | Tekkub | he made a new page with old the image in it, no text |
| 03:51.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Weirdness |
| 03:58.33 | Okatuos | Hullo :P |
| 03:59.27 | Okatuos | lmao, pally t5 |
| 03:59.44 | Okatuos | actually i dont think it looks too bad tbh |
| 04:00.53 | Kirkburn|afk | :) same |
| 04:01.02 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm attempting to change my sig atm |
| 04:01.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Whatever I choose people wil copy me :( |
| 04:01.14 | Okatuos | lotsa ppl complaining about it but its not the worse of the sets |
| 04:01.18 | Tekkub | haha |
| 04:01.32 | Okatuos | Seriously why did they give us antlers again :'( |
| 04:01.42 | Kirkburn|afk | Cause you're DRUIDS! |
| 04:01.47 | Kirkburn|afk | :P |
| 04:01.48 | Tekkub | oh stope your bitching |
| 04:01.51 | Okatuos | lol |
| 04:01.54 | Tekkub | some furries like antlers |
| 04:02.01 | Tekkub | and druids == furries |
| 04:02.33 | Okatuos | im dreading logging on tbh now patch has been applied :S |
| 04:03.55 | Okatuos | time to respec resto me thinks :P |
| 04:06.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Tekkub, check your talk page |
| 04:06.17 | Kirkburn|afk | I switched to an actual new sig template to save the wiki some processing :) |
| 04:18.31 | Kirkburn|afk | I couldn't think of something radical :( |
| 04:18.52 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-21-113.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 04:28.14 | *** join/#wowwiki Ron_Wheeler (n=chatzill@d47-69-32-211.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:28.41 | Ron_Wheeler | hi |
| 04:29.35 | equiraptor | Hello. |
| 04:29.59 | Kirkburn|afk | ... |
| 04:30.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Hey equiraptor |
| 04:30.09 | equiraptor | Hi. |
| 04:30.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Tekkub, I made my new sig cooler :D |
| 04:30.12 | equiraptor | I guess I'm scary. |
| 04:30.22 | Kirkburn|afk | More colourful, took a leaf out of your book |
| 04:30.26 | Kirkburn|afk | You sure are. |
| 04:30.32 | equiraptor | Yay! |
| 04:31.28 | equiraptor | Apparently my mechanic thinks my car looks like michael jordan |
| 04:34.50 | Kirkburn|afk | That's ... odd |
| 04:41.41 | Kirkburn|afk | My new sig has a bonus for anyone on Vista or with Office 2007 :P |
| 04:42.44 | equiraptor | Awwww! |
| 04:42.48 | equiraptor | You don't love me! |
| 04:43.23 | Kirkburn|afk | :( |
| 04:43.36 | equiraptor | I don't have either of those yet. :( |
| 04:44.26 | equiraptor | I really don't want to buy Vista, but I don't see how I'll get out of it. Eventually I'm gonna either want or need it. |
| 04:44.34 | equiraptor | And I'm not gonna steal it. |
| 04:44.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Good :) |
| 05:03.05 | Kirkburn|afk | Good druid news! http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/03/06/druids-get-a-hotfixy-gift/ |
| 05:13.57 | *** join/#wowwiki Karrion (n=kieron@corp-gw01.imrworldwide.com) |
| 05:24.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Tekkub, you're in charge of the WoWAce wiki aintcha? |
| 05:25.10 | Tekkub | I guess technically... |
| 05:25.27 | Kirkburn|afk | Was gonna mentiona few things about the sidebar |
| 05:26.06 | Tekkub | if you're in the forum, don't |
| 05:26.12 | Tekkub | taht's ALL kael's issue |
| 05:26.14 | Kirkburn|afk | Rowne's Archive link doesn't work, WoWWiki's second W should be capitalised, Ace Updater link needs updating :P |
| 05:27.46 | Tekkub | :P |
| 05:27.55 | Tekkub | rowne I can do nothing about |
| 05:28.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Zomg, why? |
| 05:28.13 | Tekkub | any changes I make on the wiki won't reflect on the forum sidebar |
| 05:28.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Zomg, why? |
| 05:28.27 | Tekkub | in the end, bitch at Kael cause he can fix everything together |
| 05:28.47 | Tekkub | the forum sidebar is a seperate thing from the wiki |
| 05:28.52 | Tekkub | it's just an ugly mimic |
| 05:29.02 | Kirkburn|afk | :( |
| 05:29.25 | Tekkub | rowne's arcive, I have no clue, kael's the one that sat that up and he's the one that moved the server like twice |
| 05:29.36 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 05:29.37 | Tekkub | forum sidebar, again, kael |
| 05:29.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Fair enough |
| 05:30.22 | Tekkub | now I goes to work |
| 06:04.14 | *** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 06:04.14 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
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| 07:30.36 | zeal | B'bye ... |
| 07:31.16 | *** join/#wowwiki Bleeter (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
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| 08:13.53 | Cinco | hi |
| 08:14.05 | Cinco | hi |
| 08:14.08 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 08:27.42 | Bagginsww | Did I miss some drama? |
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| 10:23.53 | amro | it's varghedinwiki time again |
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| 10:55.27 | Tekkub | aw the dramaz |
| 10:55.35 | Tekkub | I knew Zeal wouldn't last too long |
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| 13:01.24 | winkiller | hu? |
| 13:03.31 | winkiller | ah |
| 13:04.05 | winkiller | bah, the only one to answer my bub questions. and fast :/ |
| 13:04.10 | winkiller | *nub |
| 13:57.29 | *** join/#wowwiki p30n (n=p30n@irk.bob.fi) |
| 13:57.33 | p30n | hey hey ppl |
| 13:57.39 | p30n | wonder why i have come here before |
| 13:57.54 | p30n | haven't* |
| 13:59.02 | *** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.143) |
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| 14:35.30 | Tuqui-tuqui | hmm... so the patch with the "nerfs" was yesterday? |
| 14:35.45 | Tuqui-tuqui | because I saw the list of changes but mages were not on that list |
| 14:35.53 | Tuqui-tuqui | or is there a bigger patch coming? |
| 14:36.02 | Ludith | Hi, someone keeps deleting my links on the patch mirrors, sipifi.com, is there a way to see who's doing it? there is nothing wrong with my links, they work etc |
| 14:36.14 | Tuqui-tuqui | -.- |
| 14:39.31 | *** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 14:39.31 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 14:47.09 | Kaso | Ludith i see JamieSI removing yours once only. |
| 14:50.30 | *** join/#wowwiki nemppu (i=nemppu@a91-154-4-172.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:50.31 | Kaso | Patch mirrors tends to have alot of drama around it, try not to take it personally, and correct the page so that everything is in the correct order and is ok. then leave it be |
| 15:30.51 | *** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.143) |
| 16:08.25 | *** join/#wowwiki JamieSI (n=spitfire@host86-136-173-142.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:08.52 | JamieSI | hello |
| 16:08.55 | JamieSI | any admins around |
| 16:09.18 | JamieSI | Dimension is removing links from Mirror list |
| 16:09.22 | JamieSI | I'm readding them for you |
| 16:09.35 | JamieSI | and he claims two sites have viruses lol, when they don't as I've tested them |
| 16:09.44 | JamieSI | so if any admins are around |
| 16:09.57 | JamieSI | i'd be grateful if you could get back to me |
| 16:10.37 | equiraptor | Thanks for telling u. |
| 16:10.39 | equiraptor | Er, us. |
| 16:10.48 | equiraptor | I'm not an admin, but they'll see it when they get here. |
| 16:12.40 | JamieSI | cool :) |
| 16:13.00 | *** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 16:13.00 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 16:16.58 | JamieSI | hello caire |
| 16:17.02 | JamieSI | are you an admin on wiki? |
| 16:17.10 | JamieSI | we've got a link remover, though I'm fixing his doings |
| 16:17.50 | JamieSI | Dimension is his name |
| 16:17.56 | JamieSI | removing links from Mirror page |
| 16:18.00 | JamieSI | I have to keep adding them |
| 16:18.26 | equiraptor | Better to leave the page wrong until an admin can act than have an edit war, methinks. |
| 16:19.04 | JamieSI | well |
| 16:19.10 | JamieSI | I'm currrently edit waring him lol |
| 16:20.41 | equiraptor | First, please don't edit war. If he un-reverts your reversion, contact and admin and maybe mention it on the talk page. There's no need to fill up the edit history with a bunch of competing reversions. |
| 16:20.58 | equiraptor | Second, when you revent, please have the comment include what you're reverting to. |
| 16:21.14 | equiraptor | ANd both of those are just my opinions. WoWWIki admins might tell you different. |
| 16:21.25 | JamieSI | ok |
| 16:22.01 | equiraptor | And I really can't type today. I apologize for my typos. :) |
| 16:23.46 | JamieSI | np :) |
| 16:24.01 | Kaso|afk | JamieSI |
| 16:24.22 | Kaso|afk | there was someone in here eariler saying you were removing sipifi.com links from the same page |
| 16:25.07 | JamieSI | well I removed them once, because they didn't contain the file |
| 16:25.10 | JamieSI | then I told the chap |
| 16:25.13 | JamieSI | and he added them to the site |
| 16:25.17 | JamieSI | so we readded them |
| 16:25.31 | Kaso|afk | fair enough |
| 16:25.34 | JamieSI | people would get puzzled to go there and not find anything |
| 16:39.59 | *** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim|afk (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 16:43.26 | Kirkburn|afk | Morning all |
| 16:44.10 | Hobinheim|afk | yosh |
| 16:44.14 | Tuqui-tuqui | morning Kirkburn|afk |
| 16:44.18 | Tuqui-tuqui | lo Hobinheim|work |
| 16:47.55 | Kirkburn|afk | I wonder what made Zeal snap :/ |
| 16:48.01 | amro | morning kirkburn |
| 16:48.03 | JamieSI | kickburn, had an idea that would solve your patch mirror page, if you've still got a problem with it. Theres a script I've found which allows links to be randomly loaded in different orders each time, that way all sites wll be at top and bottem at somepoint |
| 16:48.09 | Kirkburn|afk | R it's an R |
| 16:48.11 | Kirkburn|afk | :) |
| 16:48.16 | JamieSI | a popular Half-life mod uses the system |
| 16:48.25 | JamieSI | but only needed if your still having troubles |
| 16:48.42 | JamieSI | so for example, each time the page is load/refresh |
| 16:48.46 | JamieSI | the links are in a random order |
| 16:48.56 | JamieSI | different everytime |
| 16:49.58 | Kirkburn|afk | (Zeal's leaving messages - http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal#03:16.2C_7_March_2007_.28EST.29 ) |
| 16:50.42 | Kirkburn|afk | JamieSI, maybe. Problem is, it's a lot of work for only a small gain - with the new rules it seems to have died down a little at least |
| 16:51.25 | JamieSI | excellent |
| 16:51.29 | JamieSI | I dout it's needed then :) |
| 16:56.15 | Kaso | My tests seem to indicate that theres a virus in Sipifi's links on the patch mirrors, but given the revert war that has been happening today i dont really want to remove the links. I've left a message on his talk page to check the file, but anyone wanna give me a second opinion on it |
| 16:57.27 | JamieSI | I think he's fixed it |
| 16:57.32 | JamieSI | it was indeed virused |
| 16:57.55 | JamieSI | Although, I'm not sure if it was a harmful one |
| 16:58.10 | Kaso | i downloaded 14min ago, fixed since then? |
| 16:58.13 | *** join/#wowwiki Sipifi (n=thinkord@d54C30436.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:58.18 | Kaso | Ah hi |
| 16:58.42 | JamieSI | Sipifi, you've fixed your download now, right? |
| 16:58.47 | Sipifi | I did yes |
| 16:58.53 | JamieSI | excellenr |
| 16:58.57 | Kaso | when? |
| 16:59.04 | Sipifi | about 5-10 mins ago |
| 17:00.42 | Kaso | Wonderful, md5s match all is good, thanks for that |
| 17:01.07 | Sipifi | No problem, i had no idea about a virus in one of the files. |
| 17:01.11 | Sipifi | Thanks for your message |
| 17:01.34 | Kaso | I thought it would be better than just removing the links, given all the reverts that have been flying around today |
| 17:03.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Patch days are FUN! |
| 17:06.11 | amro | especially on those super awesome patch days when people fall through the world :P |
| 17:07.26 | Verxion | I have a question about this page: http://www.wowwiki.com/Sha'tar |
| 17:07.44 | Verxion | is there anyone here that would know about the rewards listed there? The list appears to be incomplete... |
| 17:10.36 | Verxion | If you look at this page: http://wow.gameamp.com/wow/viewReputation/The+Sha'tar.php#startContent under "Items", it seems to have a complete list... |
| 17:12.16 | Verxion | nevermind, it looks like most of the wowwiki pages are similarly outdated |
| 17:13.08 | amro | feel free to update it :) |
| 17:13.16 | Verxion | nah |
| 17:13.21 | amro | :( |
| 17:13.21 | Verxion | there are other sites with complete info |
| 17:13.31 | Verxion | whereas ALL the pages I go to on wowwiki are lacking |
| 17:13.42 | amro | if you update them, they won't be lacking anymore |
| 17:14.02 | Verxion | there are too many pages to update when you consider that other sites are already complete |
| 17:14.06 | Verxion | no need to duplicate data |
| 17:15.09 | amro | with that attitude wikipedia wouldn't exist, since all of its content is available elsewhere. |
| 17:15.26 | Verxion | it is like everything else |
| 17:15.31 | Verxion | if a website becomes dominant |
| 17:15.34 | Verxion | then people will update it |
| 17:15.38 | Verxion | very VERY simple |
| 17:15.46 | Verxion | wikipedia is dominant, so it gets updated |
| 17:15.57 | amro | right |
| 17:15.58 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com) |
| 17:15.58 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 17:16.06 | amro | but wikipedia didn't become "dominant" overnight |
| 17:16.16 | Verxion | nope |
| 17:16.17 | amro | at first it was barely known |
| 17:16.19 | amro | but still got updates |
| 17:16.21 | Verxion | and neither did its competitors |
| 17:16.37 | amro | I give up |
| 17:16.55 | Verxion | I mean |
| 17:17.07 | Verxion | I could create the worlds easiest to update wow website there has EVER BEEN |
| 17:17.10 | Verxion | or ever WOULD be |
| 17:17.14 | Verxion | but that ain't enough |
| 17:17.30 | amro | that's right, you need to update it |
| 17:17.32 | Verxion | it would have to get all the current data in it before it would stand ANY chance of becoming a standard |
| 17:17.41 | amro | who's talking about standards? |
| 17:17.47 | Verxion | you are |
| 17:17.56 | Verxion | you want wowwiki to be updated by random people |
| 17:18.05 | Verxion | the way that will HAPPEN is if people have a reason to go there |
| 17:18.08 | Verxion | right now, there isn't much reason |
| 17:18.39 | amro | dude |
| 17:19.02 | amro | how do you think wikipedia got where it is? not thanks to people who think "nah its not 'dominant'" |
| 17:19.17 | amro | if there isn't much reason for people to go to wowwiki, then give them a reason to |
| 17:19.42 | Verxion | if/when wowwiki ever becomes useful, I would certainly contribute to its remaining so |
| 17:21.10 | amro | how do you expect it to ever become useful (bad wording since it implies it isn't) if you think people shouldn't bother updating it? |
| 17:21.39 | Verxion | as I said |
| 17:21.46 | Verxion | if someone creates something and expect it to get used |
| 17:21.50 | Verxion | they need to make it useful |
| 17:22.04 | amro | Now I really give up |
| 17:22.18 | Verxion | creating an empty husk and declaring to the world that it would be the best husk in the universe if only everyone would contribute to it... |
| 17:22.31 | amro | wow, who ever said it's the best in the world? |
| 17:22.44 | Verxion | s/best/useful |
| 17:23.57 | Verxion | for example, while thottbot certainly has some failings, the fact that a mod AUTOMATICALLY collects information for the website is a pretty killer innovation |
| 17:24.29 | Verxion | then, instead of asking people to manually enter information, entire portions of the website populate pretty much automatically |
| 17:24.48 | amro | thottbot is my first stop for lore |
| 17:24.54 | amro | and information about interface customization |
| 17:25.59 | ggilbert | I was under the impression data mining the item information was considered a violation of the game's terms of service. |
| 17:26.24 | amro | ggilbert, the addons don't datamine, they grab the data as you see it ingame |
| 17:26.26 | Verxion | ggilbert, information like who drops what, where, etc. |
| 17:26.41 | ggilbert | Ah that stuff |
| 17:26.48 | Verxion | you can also obtain information about linked items |
| 17:26.59 | Verxion | ie, any time someone links an item, the mod can grab the item info |
| 17:31.52 | ggilbert | To me as a user, they just serve different purposes. Thott is very well suited to diving into the minutia of drop statistics and quests. The wiki seems better suited for more "subjective" matters. |
| 17:32.17 | ggilbert | Like lore, UI api documentation, detailed instance discussion. |
| 17:32.24 | Verxion | ggilbert: What would be an example of what you would go to the wiki for? |
| 17:32.40 | Verxion | for lore? |
| 17:32.51 | Verxion | I suppose there are people that are interested in that... |
| 17:32.51 | ggilbert | I go to the wiki frequently for the API documentation and the raid information |
| 17:39.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Verxion, you have a very narrow view of WoW :/ |
| 17:39.45 | Verxion | lore is like flavor text on MtG cards, amusing, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with game mechanics |
| 17:39.47 | Kirkburn|afk | I should also point out that the wiki is an extremely popular website - have you seen the Recent Changes list? |
| 17:40.23 | Verxion | popular is not the same as useful. :) |
| 17:40.39 | Kirkburn|afk | I know we're not well suited to being a database site, however, we are extremely well suited to have strategies, boss loot lists, background lore, Interface help, guild listing, realm listings |
| 17:42.35 | equiraptor | Am I right in thinking that WoWWiki isn't trying to compete with alla/thottbot/wowhead, but rather be a suppliment to them? |
| 17:42.37 | Kirkburn|afk | If you don't want to use the wiki, fine, but don't come in here complaining about how it lacks as a database site |
| 17:43.01 | Verxion | equiraptor: that is what I am starting to think, which ends up meaning I have simply been expecting something of wowwiki that it didn't intend to provide |
| 17:43.06 | Kirkburn|afk | equiraptor, there are some users who want the former, but I do feel it's best suited as the latter |
| 17:43.18 | Verxion | Kirkburn|afk: that certainly seems fair |
| 17:43.22 | Kirkburn|afk | =) |
| 17:43.28 | equiraptor | *nod* A Wiki just isn't going to work well as what alla/thottbot/wowhead do. |
| 17:43.42 | Kirkburn|afk | Aye |
| 17:43.44 | Verxion | though if that is the case, the pages holding the type of content that wowwiki doesn't intend to capture should really be removed |
| 17:43.45 | equiraptor | The very structure of wikis means it would be a continual nightmare. |
| 17:44.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Verxion, that wouldn't be very democratic! |
| 17:44.09 | Verxion | or changed to be a link to a site that has the information |
| 17:44.26 | Verxion | you mentioned that it has ui information |
| 17:44.36 | Verxion | and I just browsed through that and it looks to be quite serviceable |
| 17:44.45 | Verxion | and USEFUL in fact |
| 17:44.46 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:44.59 | Kirkburn|afk | I should point out that this is one of the most popular pages the wiki has ever had - http://www.wowwiki.com/Comparison_of_Aldor_and_Scryer_rewards |
| 17:45.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Note how it lists items |
| 17:45.37 | Kirkburn|afk | But you're essentially suggesting that that stuff be removed "because we're not a database site" |
| 17:45.56 | Kirkburn|afk | That would be sily ^^ |
| 17:46.02 | Kirkburn|afk | *silly, even |
| 17:46.06 | Kaso | Howcome thottbot links are discouraged in Elinks-item ? |
| 17:46.17 | Verxion | Kaso: politics |
| 17:46.19 | Kirkburn|afk | Thottbot uses weird IDs |
| 17:46.29 | Verxion | wowwiki doesn't approve of thot's link variables |
| 17:46.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Essentially, it's a pain |
| 17:46.42 | Kaso | I see |
| 17:46.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Verxion, what? |
| 17:47.06 | Verxion | Kirkburn|afk: wowwiki doesn't approve of thot's link variables |
| 17:47.11 | Verxion | I think that was pretty clear |
| 17:47.24 | Verxion | you have a VERY standard website out there |
| 17:48.16 | Kirkburn|afk | Do you just hate us or something? |
| 17:48.16 | Verxion | that was pretty much the standard until the expansion |
| 17:48.16 | |FF|Im2good4u | i realy need to check my HD someday since blizzard D&Lérs give errors while saving data /o\ |
| 17:48.17 | Verxion | and you seem to want them to change their entire website |
| 17:48.17 | Verxion | because... you want them to. :) |
| 17:48.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Do actually know what the hell you're talking about? |
| 17:48.17 | Verxion | yes |
| 17:48.17 | Verxion | I do |
| 17:48.32 | Verxion | you want thot to change all of their link variables |
| 17:48.32 | Verxion | to something that -*IS*- more standard |
| 17:48.33 | Kirkburn|afk | Good, then you know why using non-standard IDs for items is not good |
| 17:48.40 | Kirkburn|afk | No, standard is what BLIZZARD use |
| 17:48.47 | Kirkburn|afk | |FF|Im2good4u, ouch :( |
| 17:49.11 | Verxion | Kirkburn|afk: I am in absolutely no way disagreeing that there is a better variable that could have been used |
| 17:49.23 | Kirkburn|afk | Whether or not Thott uses the correct IDs is not up to us, but whether or not we spend our time looking up the wrong ones /is/ |
| 17:49.30 | |FF|Im2good4u | started last patch but i got the same again this patch and iv ben tru all their technical details >.< |
| 17:49.59 | Kirkburn|afk | As you said earlier "popular /= useful" |
| 17:50.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Thott might be popular, but it doesn't mean its right |
| 17:50.50 | Kirkburn|afk | Anyway, I have no problem with Thott, but to force users to look up the non-standard Thott id is silly |
| 17:51.11 | |FF|Im2good4u | it might be wrong but its still usefull aslong as u dont look at the dechants into: list :P |
| 17:51.16 | Kirkburn|afk | We should be using whatever ID Blizz use, and that is what both Alla and Wowhead use |
| 17:51.41 | |FF|Im2good4u | yeh blizz shold add it to thier armory :P |
| 17:51.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Thott really does need to clean the database more, doesn't he :) |
| 17:52.12 | |FF|Im2good4u | well im still trying to dechant my [clam meat] :p |
| 17:52.18 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 17:53.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Just going back to the original point Verxion "wowwiki doesn't approve of thot's link variables" ... this only applies to items (and NPCs iirc), thott uses standard IDs for the other stuff at least :) |
| 17:55.15 | Kirkburn|afk | Wowhead is rapidly catching up with Thott and Alla I notice |
| 17:56.41 | |FF|Im2good4u | well if wowhead ever gets pop certain ppl will ruin it by uploding false fliles |
| 17:56.41 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:57.07 | Kaso | On a slightly related but also seperate topic; has anyone discussed using blizz's item-tooltip.xml off of armory to import items bot-stylie |
| 17:57.52 | *** part/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet12.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 17:57.58 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet12.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 17:58.00 | Kaso | woops |
| 17:58.03 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 17:58.07 | Kirkburn|afk | I was about to say yes |
| 17:58.08 | |FF|Im2good4u | well i haven been able to get the armory fully working :P |
| 17:58.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Well, it's still beta :) |
| 17:58.39 | |FF|Im2good4u | indeed so i dont blame them |
| 17:58.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Kaso, not that specifically, but setting up a proper database bot has been discussed |
| 17:58.56 | |FF|Im2good4u | (i only blame for the hunter neefs ^^) |
| 17:59.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Problem is, the wiki has no paid workers :/ |
| 17:59.14 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:59.15 | Kirkburn|afk | |FF|Im2good4u, heh |
| 18:00.10 | Kaso | kirk, is there any written discussion on wiki itself i can read? |
| 18:01.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Not that I can find quickly |
| 18:01.17 | Kaso | no problem |
| 18:02.23 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:08.21 | Hobinheim|work | ouch my zeal message was rough |
| 18:08.53 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-83-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:09.06 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:09.13 | Hobinheim|work | lol blaming tekkub amazing! |
| 18:09.17 | Hobinheim|work | tek money, what did you do |
| 18:10.16 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:11.35 | Hobinheim|work | in regards to mass data entry for things other sites already have... all i can say is that we're working on it! |
| 18:11.39 | Hobinheim|work | slowly, but surely |
| 18:12.05 | Hobinheim|work | we all have lives to attend to and other programs to write. even if we do finish an importing mechanism, it won't be as sexy as other sites unless we get a win32 programmer on board |
| 18:12.25 | Hobinheim|work | also, we will have to nail down some specifics in how that content will be handled against already-written editor content |
| 18:12.47 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:16.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Hobinheim|work, we need to steal programmers! :P |
| 18:16.38 | Hobinheim|work | like i sorta know what's necessary... to make like... 65% of it happen |
| 18:16.48 | Hobinheim|work | but to truly "compete" with the other sites, we need a real badass platform programmer |
| 18:17.06 | Hobinheim|work | if you know what i mean, the way we have access now will be to ask users to "find their WDB files and upload each one manually" |
| 18:17.08 | Hobinheim|work | know what i mean? |
| 18:17.15 | Hobinheim|work | know what i mean know what i mena |
| 18:17.28 | Hobinheim|work | what othersites do is tie their uploader to the wow client |
| 18:17.34 | Hobinheim|work | such that you can launch wow and upload in one click |
| 18:17.55 | Hobinheim|work | me and tekkub don't know of such voodoo. i meani know OF it but i've never done it before and don't plan on doing so in the near future |
| 18:19.54 | Hobinheim|work | the.... only thing i can think of. is ot make a relaly good looking intro |
| 18:20.06 | Hobinheim|work | "if you have seen a krol blade and we don't have an article on one, do the following..." |
| 18:20.18 | Hobinheim|work | "step one. cut a hole in a box" |
| 18:20.23 | Hobinheim|work | "step 2, find your wdb file" |
| 18:20.27 | Hobinheim|work | step 3, click upload |
| 18:20.32 | Hobinheim|work | step 4, approve the changes.... |
| 18:20.53 | amro | haha |
| 18:21.42 | amro | Hobinheim|work, I thought they used addons to collect data rather than grabbing the WDB file |
| 18:22.34 | Hobinheim|work | either way, their upload process is handled better than what we have access to create |
| 18:22.50 | |FF|Im2good4u | i wonder if i chance "set realmlist eu.logon.worldofwarcraft.com " wil it allow u to logon to US servers ? |
| 18:22.54 | Hobinheim|work | like, if you had an uploader already, of course you could resort to making an addon crawler thing |
| 18:23.13 | Hobinheim|work | the uploader is >>>>>>>>>> lua addon |
| 18:23.15 | amro | |FF|Im2good4u, you will probably fail validation |
| 18:23.24 | |FF|Im2good4u | hmm good point :P |
| 18:23.29 | Hobinheim|work | but there are good and bad sides to this |
| 18:23.31 | amro | Hobinheim|work, how about uploading somewhere where a script runs to update the wiki? |
| 18:23.33 | Bibi`ouF | excuse me |
| 18:23.37 | Bibi`ouF | anyone from wowwiki team here ? |
| 18:23.40 | Hobinheim|work | some of those sides aggregate statistics |
| 18:23.42 | |FF|Im2good4u | we all are |
| 18:23.48 | Hobinheim|work | the wiki, generally, you only update once |
| 18:23.51 | Hobinheim|work | and then its done |
| 18:24.01 | Bibi`ouF | DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK |
| 18:24.03 | Bibi`ouF | http://www.home.versatel.nl/noobert/wow/patches/WoW-2.0.8.6403-to-2.0.10.6448-enGB-patch.exe |
| 18:24.03 | Hobinheim|work | so... like if one endgame player, lets say kirk, uploads his database |
| 18:24.09 | Bibi`ouF | i'm currently removing it from the patch mirrors |
| 18:24.12 | Hobinheim|work | that covers nearly 90% of what the game has to offer |
| 18:24.14 | Bibi`ouF | it's been added earlier |
| 18:24.18 | Bibi`ouF | and it has a keylogger in it |
| 18:24.26 | Kirkburn|afk | :/ |
| 18:24.30 | Hobinheim|work | if someone from goon squad or DnT uploaded also, that would be 99% of whats out there |
| 18:24.53 | amro | wikis are not suited for handling statistics, unless you handle them elsewhere and regularly update the wiki |
| 18:25.23 | Hobinheim|work | amro, the probablem isn't how to update the wiki. it's what is the easiest way for people to give us data |
| 18:25.58 | amro | same as other sites |
| 18:26.33 | Hobinheim|work | "hunt for WDBs" isn't exactly my idea of userfriendly |
| 18:26.40 | Hobinheim|work | but like i said, i guess we're not in a total crap chute |
| 18:26.46 | Hobinheim|work | *crap shoot |
| 18:26.46 | amro | ? |
| 18:26.49 | Hobinheim|work | just a partial one |
| 18:30.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Who does one tell if one has a keyloggeR? |
| 18:30.57 | Hobinheim|work | always run the default launcher and pray for the best |
| 18:31.24 | amro | wow now also has a keylogger scan since 2.0 I think |
| 18:31.34 | amro | s/has/does/ |
| 18:32.28 | Hobinheim|work | infobot, you're the cooolest |
| 18:37.06 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet17.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 18:39.32 | Verxion | infobot: one would think that a keylogger hacked patch would prevent being detected by the program it is intending to keylog... |
| 18:39.34 | infobot | Verxion: what are you talking about? |
| 18:39.45 | Verxion | ahh |
| 18:40.01 | Verxion | the "bot" in the nick isn't merely for show |
| 18:40.02 | Verxion | :) |
| 18:48.44 | *** join/#wowwiki BitString (n=Jakov@83-131-251-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 18:53.11 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-83-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:53.17 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet17.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 18:53.53 | Kirkburn|afk | Verxion, lol |
| 18:53.57 | Kirkburn|afk | We've all done it ;) |
| 18:54.47 | Verxion | heh |
| 18:54.55 | Verxion | soooooooooo |
| 18:55.01 | Verxion | let me ask some stupid questions |
| 18:55.10 | Verxion | you guys want something that uploads data? |
| 18:55.51 | Verxion | I have a vague memory that Blizzard actually provides an upload tool |
| 18:56.10 | Verxion | a year or so ago a friend of mine tried to get me to join his guild |
| 18:56.22 | Verxion | their guild had a requirement that you install some addon |
| 18:56.42 | Verxion | the addon basically "automatically" uploaded your level, pvp rank, and other info to the guild website |
| 18:56.54 | Verxion | and if memory serves, it used some blizzard provided uploader to do it |
| 18:57.44 | ggilbert | Not sure of an upload tool, but you can just pull that off of armory now |
| 18:58.13 | Kirkburn|afk | Nah, I don't think Blizz did one, but there were others around |
| 18:58.58 | Verxion | yeah, armory is pretty cool to me |
| 18:59.04 | Verxion | though it has item bugs, which cracks me up |
| 18:59.25 | Verxion | I mean, of ALL the websites on the planet, you would think the blizzard one would have the MOST up to date item data... |
| 18:59.52 | ggilbert | hehe |
| 18:59.54 | Verxion | speaking of which |
| 19:00.05 | ggilbert | they don't seem to have synced since the last set of changes |
| 19:00.09 | Verxion | do any of you know of a database or ANYTHING out there that has item data in it? |
| 19:00.19 | amro | huh? |
| 19:00.23 | Verxion | what I am talking about is in raw form |
| 19:00.26 | Verxion | ie, a file |
| 19:00.40 | amro | that would be nuts |
| 19:00.48 | Verxion | it would be killer nutz |
| 19:00.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Huuuuge :P |
| 19:00.58 | Verxion | I could do SOOO much with it |
| 19:01.00 | amro | I meant a crazy idea |
| 19:01.18 | amro | you wouldn't do anything with it, the file would be too big |
| 19:01.24 | Verxion | well all these websites that show items presumably have an item database |
| 19:01.28 | |FF|Im2good4u | my life jsut fell apart !! |
| 19:01.28 | Verxion | um |
| 19:01.30 | amro | yeah, a database. not a file |
| 19:01.35 | Verxion | I deal with terabyte files here at work |
| 19:01.39 | Verxion | so yeah |
| 19:01.43 | Verxion | I could do anything I wanted with it |
| 19:02.05 | amro | like |
| 19:02.06 | amro | ? |
| 19:02.12 | Verxion | well what I want to do |
| 19:02.18 | amro | which is? |
| 19:02.22 | Verxion | is write an item tool |
| 19:02.30 | Verxion | like something I wrote for guild wars |
| 19:02.37 | Verxion | ever seen guild wars? |
| 19:02.59 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet17.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 19:03.21 | Verxion | guess not |
| 19:03.27 | Kirkburn|afk | Lol |
| 19:03.47 | Kirkburn|afk | I have heard of it, but never played it |
| 19:03.48 | Verxion | well suffice to say, the tool I would write would be unbelievably useful to anyone at end game looking at what gear they want/need |
| 19:03.49 | ggilbert | Verxion: I know you can get it for a single character, but I don't know a full set of all items |
| 19:04.12 | Verxion | ggilbert: well for example, ctprofiles obviously has some sort of database |
| 19:04.18 | Verxion | with a TON of items |
| 19:04.27 | Verxion | otherwise the site wouldn't even work |
| 19:04.55 | Verxion | presumably there are websites with fairly complete info |
| 19:05.07 | Verxion | certainly there are sites with info on all boss item drops |
| 19:05.29 | Verxion | and actually boss item drops plus instance lootable items would be all I would want anyway |
| 19:05.39 | ggilbert | Some of them export info |
| 19:05.42 | Verxion | well and crafted items |
| 19:05.48 | ggilbert | though off hand I don't remember how to query it |
| 19:05.51 | Verxion | ggilbert: do you know of any off hand? |
| 19:05.54 | Verxion | ahh, drat |
| 19:06.02 | ggilbert | I believe allakhazam did |
| 19:06.05 | Verxion | well, do you know of a site that you think had an export of some kind? |
| 19:06.09 | Verxion | ok, lemme look on alla |
| 19:06.15 | ggilbert | but I don't remember how to access it. |
| 19:06.20 | Verxion | they so rock |
| 19:07.12 | ggilbert | oh |
| 19:07.13 | ggilbert | duh |
| 19:07.52 | ggilbert | http://wow.allakhazam.com/dev/wow/item-xml.pl?witem=16916 is an individual item |
| 19:08.17 | Verxion | ok, that looks promising |
| 19:08.30 | Verxion | now all I would need is the item id for all the TYPES of objects I am interested in |
| 19:08.39 | Verxion | I could write a script to grab all the data from alla |
| 19:08.55 | Verxion | and then my tool would be born |
| 19:10.43 | ggilbert | Your nick looks familiar, did you have a zaurus at one point? |
| 19:11.48 | Verxion | heh |
| 19:11.49 | Verxion | yes, I did |
| 19:11.55 | Verxion | I thought your nick looked familiar too |
| 19:11.57 | ggilbert | hehe |
| 19:12.00 | Verxion | yeah, I used to hack my Z |
| 19:12.04 | Verxion | sold it though |
| 19:12.06 | Verxion | and moved on |
| 19:12.15 | *** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim|work (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:12.24 | ggilbert | hehe. Mine has been sitting unused on my desk for a long time. :) |
| 19:14.37 | *** join/#wowwiki Kraze (i=Kraze@bas1-toronto63-1088789747.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:14.46 | Verxion | sec, work beckons |
| 19:15.04 | *** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 19:15.04 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 19:16.48 | amro | Verxion, I have Guild Wars |
| 19:17.04 | Verxion | amro: I wrote a tool that is for browsing guild wars skills |
| 19:17.30 | amro | Cool. But WoW doesn't have as many skills as guild wars |
| 19:17.39 | Verxion | it lets you virtually instantly, for example, find all skills that use less than 20 mana that heal for some amount and have some special text in the description |
| 19:17.43 | Verxion | right |
| 19:17.54 | amro | yeah but GW is VERY different |
| 19:17.54 | Verxion | I would be using my guild wars skill code for a wow item browser |
| 19:18.01 | Verxion | so you could, for example |
| 19:18.07 | amro | IIRC energy doesn't increase as in WoW |
| 19:18.20 | amro | so all skill energy costs fall within a small range |
| 19:18.22 | Verxion | find all mail items that have at least 10 agility, at least 10 int, and some amount of attack power |
| 19:18.31 | amro | you can do that with the database sites |
| 19:18.33 | Verxion | or all trinkets that have "mana" somewhere in the item text |
| 19:18.35 | Verxion | etc. |
| 19:18.55 | Verxion | well the thing about my gw skill code is this |
| 19:18.58 | Verxion | -*AS*- you type |
| 19:19.01 | Verxion | it filters the list |
| 19:19.13 | Verxion | it makes it VERY interactive and fast |
| 19:19.17 | amro | that's nice, since the list is available locally |
| 19:19.21 | Verxion | right |
| 19:19.30 | amro | but im guessing your tool grabs the item data from GW's file |
| 19:19.35 | Verxion | nope |
| 19:19.43 | amro | how, then? |
| 19:19.44 | Verxion | I got it from the db on some websites |
| 19:19.57 | amro | and how big is the file? |
| 19:20.00 | Verxion | for example, ggilbert just gave me this link: |
| 19:20.01 | Verxion | http://wow.allakhazam.com/dev/wow/item-xml.pl?witem=16916 |
| 19:20.13 | Verxion | If I had a complete list of witem numbers |
| 19:20.15 | Verxion | I would be set |
| 19:20.16 | amro | yes I know you can increment the id and grab all items |
| 19:20.22 | Verxion | I could just write a script to grab all the data |
| 19:20.41 | amro | the file would be quite large |
| 19:20.48 | Verxion | doesn't matter really |
| 19:20.53 | Verxion | my code can parse it very quickly |
| 19:20.58 | amro | that's not the problem |
| 19:21.03 | amro | the problem is getting people to download it |
| 19:21.12 | amro | when they can use the database sites and get just what they want |
| 19:21.13 | Verxion | well in the SHORT term |
| 19:21.21 | Verxion | I am being a selfish bastard |
| 19:21.25 | Verxion | I want the tool for myself |
| 19:21.29 | amro | hahah |
| 19:21.32 | amro | then go ahead |
| 19:21.34 | Verxion | in the long term, I could make it for example so that you download my tool |
| 19:21.39 | amro | you can grab the items from alla |
| 19:21.43 | Verxion | and then it downloads the data from alla as you need it |
| 19:21.57 | amro | but then it wouldn't be as interactive as having the entire file |
| 19:22.00 | Verxion | like if I had a list of all the witem ids that represent cloth armor |
| 19:22.00 | amro | ie. filtering as you type |
| 19:22.03 | Verxion | then the user could say |
| 19:22.11 | Verxion | "I want to download ONLY the cloth armor data" |
| 19:22.12 | ggilbert | Verxion: One sec there's a list |
| 19:22.16 | Verxion | then they could search it locally |
| 19:22.25 | Verxion | no amro |
| 19:22.27 | Verxion | what I mean is |
| 19:22.31 | Verxion | if you said you wanted cloth armor data |
| 19:22.39 | Verxion | then it would take the time to download THAT data, and make it local |
| 19:22.43 | Verxion | then you could quick search on it |
| 19:22.53 | ggilbert | http://wow.allakhazam.com/itemlist |
| 19:23.06 | amro | getting all cloth items would also take a while |
| 19:23.18 | Verxion | well I think you missed my earlier discussion |
| 19:23.28 | Verxion | where I was saying I am only really interested in boss drops |
| 19:23.31 | Verxion | and crafted items |
| 19:23.36 | ggilbert | ah |
| 19:23.36 | amro | oh |
| 19:23.38 | Verxion | and only really end game data |
| 19:23.46 | Verxion | the MAIN initial use for this tool |
| 19:23.49 | Verxion | would be people at level 70 |
| 19:23.59 | Verxion | trying to figure out WHERE they should go to get gear upgrades |
| 19:24.09 | amro | they can just go to WoWWiki there are plenty of pages about that =) |
| 19:24.11 | Verxion | so they could compare their existing equipment with item drops |
| 19:24.44 | Verxion | amro: Can I go to wowwiki and tell it "My armor has this much armor, this much of statA, this much of statB, and this other attribute. Find me all better items" |
| 19:24.47 | Verxion | ? |
| 19:25.03 | Verxion | ggilbert: I think that url crashed my firefox, rofl |
| 19:25.36 | ggilbert | It's probably trying to render the 1.1m xml file |
| 19:25.53 | Verxion | ggilbert: ie pulled it up fine, and virtually instantly |
| 19:25.55 | amro | Verxion, if we're talking end game gear, hte list would be short. Also, not all better gear necessarily has better stats (eg equip effects) |
| 19:26.05 | Verxion | amro: Indeed |
| 19:26.15 | |FF|Im2good4u | dahm i cant take this server down stuff u need tobe 70 and flying soon so i can join kaza |
| 19:26.23 | Verxion | when I wrote my CoH toolset I had to figure out how to make good comparisons to different builds |
| 19:26.33 | Verxion | I expect I will need to do the same here in WoW gear comparisons |
| 19:26.49 | Verxion | |FF|Im2good4u: or 68 and a druid. :) |
| 19:27.16 | |FF|Im2good4u | druids are the biggest cheat ever |
| 19:27.23 | Verxion | kara is very easy to get keyed for if you have a good guild, and VERY difficult if you don't. |
| 19:27.31 | Verxion | nigh on impossible I might say |
| 19:27.40 | Verxion | trying to pub your way to a kara key.... |
| 19:27.42 | Verxion | would be rough |
| 19:28.10 | ggilbert | doesn't seem like it would be that hard |
| 19:28.13 | ggilbert | just 4 instance runs |
| 19:28.31 | Verxion | well it ISN'T that hard in general |
| 19:28.33 | Verxion | but the thing is |
| 19:28.45 | Verxion | 5 man instances in BC need each of the 5 men to truly hold their weight |
| 19:28.57 | Verxion | especially in instances like BM |
| 19:29.22 | Verxion | for example last night we had three solid guildies (including myself) try to bring 2 dps'ers through BM |
| 19:29.27 | Verxion | the 2 dps'ers needed their key |
| 19:29.34 | Verxion | they couldn't manage their end of the deal |
| 19:29.53 | Verxion | I did more dps to the adds by a factor of -*TWO*- than they together did on the keepers and bosses |
| 19:30.23 | Verxion | and though the 2nd and 3rd fragments are (imho anyway) easy to get |
| 19:30.29 | Verxion | the 1st is fairly challenging for a pug |
| 19:30.39 | Verxion | Shadow Labs is NOT an instance you just breeze through in a pug |
| 19:30.43 | Verxion | ever been there? |
| 19:30.49 | ggilbert | Sure |
| 19:30.54 | ggilbert | mostly with pugs :) |
| 19:30.59 | Verxion | have you completed it yet? |
| 19:31.07 | ggilbert | Yes |
| 19:31.12 | Verxion | well good for you |
| 19:31.25 | Verxion | I mean, druids, rogues, and mages can duo it to get their keys |
| 19:31.38 | Verxion | but other classes need to complete it as far as the last boss, murmur |
| 19:31.46 | Verxion | thankfully you don't have to actually KILL murmur |
| 19:31.59 | Verxion | many -*MANY*- pugs are incapable of downing murmur |
| 19:32.35 | Verxion | ok, so I got the http://wow.allakhazam.com/itemlist list |
| 19:32.37 | ggilbert | Arcatraz and Black Morass seemed like the two that'd be tough |
| 19:32.42 | Verxion | nah |
| 19:32.52 | Verxion | arcatraz, you don't even have to kill a SINGLE boss to get the fragment! |
| 19:33.09 | Verxion | now true, you have to fly to get there |
| 19:33.12 | Verxion | so there is that issue |
| 19:33.41 | Verxion | arcatraz can be a difficult instance in spots, but none of those portions are required to get your third fragment |
| 19:34.11 | Verxion | OH is cake and KILLER fun imho |
| 19:34.20 | Verxion | BM is really really cool, one of my favorite instances |
| 19:34.24 | Verxion | but you need a group of solid people |
| 19:34.35 | ggilbert | I dunno how pugs do on black morass. There's just not much gear I need in there, so I haven't done it much once I finished the quests in it |
| 19:34.44 | Verxion | at MINIMUM you need a very good tank, a very good healer, a very good dpser, and a very good person at handling the adds |
| 19:34.55 | Verxion | that leaves you one person that can float and be a bump on a log |
| 19:35.01 | |FF|Im2good4u | shit stopid server still isnt up.. |
| 19:35.09 | |FF|Im2good4u | im gona sew blizzard |
| 19:35.22 | Verxion | |FF|Im2good4u: right after you learn how to spell? |
| 19:35.29 | |FF|Im2good4u | yeh |
| 19:35.59 | Boromir | Is this an announced shut down? |
| 19:36.12 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8908 |
| 19:36.57 | Kirkburn|afk | ouch |
| 19:37.15 | Verxion | yeah |
| 19:37.15 | Kirkburn|afk | Cairenn, wouldn't it be better to make that look like a quote? :) |
| 19:37.20 | Verxion | someone is about to lose their head |
| 19:37.52 | Verxion | Cairenn: I trust you look EXACTLY like your avatar, RIGHT? :) |
| 19:38.57 | Boromir | Maybe without the pointy ears |
| 19:39.08 | Kirkburn|afk | Don't be so sure :P |
| 19:39.29 | Verxion | hehehe |
| 19:39.36 | |FF|Im2good4u | topix says Blizz US Servers Down but it also happent to the EU servers |
| 19:40.00 | Kirkburn|afk | I have pointy ears too :) But that's cause I'm a Vulcan, so meh. |
| 19:40.01 | Boromir | yeah |
| 19:40.36 | Boromir | I have pointy horns, but that's cause I'm evil :-> |
| 19:40.36 | Cairenn | EU were down for weekly maintenance I thought? |
| 19:40.52 | Boromir | It was earlier |
| 19:41.34 | Boromir | strange if they take it down at the most hardcore gaming time |
| 19:41.47 | Verxion | Boromir: in EU you mean? |
| 19:42.06 | |FF|Im2good4u | well eu server are never normaly down at this time |
| 19:42.06 | Boromir | yeah |
| 19:42.28 | Kirkburn|afk | Cairenn, yeah, it affected the EU too, after maintenance |
| 19:42.48 | Kirkburn|afk | No they are not normally down at this time! |
| 19:42.50 | Cairenn | changed |
| 19:42.52 | Kirkburn|afk | It's 7pm! |
| 19:43.08 | Kirkburn|afk | Woot |
| 19:43.30 | Kirkburn|afk | (actually nearly 9pm where EU servers are, they would have been up for about 10 hours) |
| 19:44.43 | |FF|Im2good4u | they where until they all of a sudden shutten down >.< |
| 19:46.15 | Boromir | Let's just say there was alot of WTF!s, OMG!s, LOL!s and "Nooo, mum says I can't change computerday!! :~("s |
| 19:49.43 | *** join/#wowwiki LathropWells (i=LathropW@ip70-181-216-9.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 19:53.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Boromir, lol |
| 19:55.17 | *** part/#wowwiki LathropWells (i=LathropW@ip70-181-216-9.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 19:57.16 | winkiller | what happened? |
| 19:58.50 | Kirkburn|afk | winkiller, to the servers? |
| 19:59.06 | winkiller | what you are talkin about |
| 19:59.09 | winkiller | didn't get all of it |
| 19:59.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Useless! |
| 19:59.22 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8908 |
| 19:59.44 | winkiller | ty |
| 19:59.51 | Kirkburn|afk | =) |
| 20:04.22 | Boromir | It's up again!! :OD |
| 20:10.06 | Boromir | OMG, i jinxed it |
| 20:18.01 | |FF|Im2good4u | WTB +35 agi on 2H weapon |
| 20:23.24 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:24.09 | Boromir | Omg.. Wh do my chars have to be on the one server which is still down?? |
| 20:27.12 | equiraptor | You're paying back Karma. |
| 20:27.14 | equiraptor | For what, I dunno. |
| 20:28.11 | Boromir | hmm.. |
| 20:28.36 | Boromir | I also got the flu and a stomach issue |
| 20:28.49 | Boromir | so can't be a very nice thing |
| 20:28.51 | equiraptor | You're paying back Karma at a vastly accelerated rate, then, I guess. |
| 20:29.02 | equiraptor | And if you recognize where I got that from, you get a cookie. |
| 20:29.30 | Boromir | My name is Earl? |
| 20:29.37 | equiraptor | Nope. |
| 20:29.48 | Boromir | No cookie for me then :~( |
| 20:29.53 | equiraptor | This predates Earl by... At least a decade, I think. |
| 20:30.14 | Boromir | hmm.. Movie? |
| 20:30.24 | equiraptor | Sorta. |
| 20:30.43 | equiraptor | Not a theatrical one, and I don't think the line was in one of the movies. |
| 20:31.41 | Boromir | I dont know |
| 20:31.41 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-83-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:32.05 | equiraptor | Either someone will get it or you'll never know! |
| 20:32.17 | Verxion | you don't know what? |
| 20:32.22 | Boromir | It's karma AGAIN!! :oS |
| 20:32.25 | Verxion | oh |
| 20:32.26 | Verxion | the quote |
| 20:32.27 | Verxion | b5 |
| 20:32.38 | equiraptor | oh, sorry, should have been paying off Karma, I think. |
| 20:32.45 | equiraptor | And, yes, Babylon 5. |
| 20:32.51 | Boromir | ooh |
| 20:33.00 | Boromir | i have actually watched that |
| 20:33.04 | Boromir | who says it? |
| 20:33.21 | Verxion | The hottest russian EVAR! |
| 20:33.22 | Verxion | rofl |
| 20:33.26 | Verxion | Ivanova |
| 20:33.38 | equiraptor | I <3 Ivanova. |
| 20:34.16 | equiraptor | I'm wearing the "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself. Anyone else? Shoot 'em" shirt today. |
| 20:35.01 | Verxion | that was great |
| 20:35.08 | Verxion | you know I never got into b5 when it was out |
| 20:35.28 | Verxion | basically what happened is I found out about b5 right about the time that it was in third season |
| 20:35.37 | equiraptor | I started watching it when season two was in its first set of reruns. |
| 20:35.47 | equiraptor | The purple/green Drazi episode was the one that hooked me. |
| 20:35.49 | Verxion | and I tried watching it but I -*IMMEDIATELY*- knew I would have gotten a ton more out of it if I saw it from the beginning |
| 20:35.56 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-83-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:36.04 | Verxion | so once netflix happened, I watch it all, in order, from beginning to end |
| 20:36.05 | Verxion | :) |
| 20:36.12 | equiraptor | I watched with my mom (I was a kid at the time) and mom helped me with all the pieces I missed. |
| 20:36.13 | Verxion | rofl |
| 20:36.21 | Verxion | yeah, the purple/green drazi was straight out of trek |
| 20:36.25 | Verxion | I loved it |
| 20:36.36 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet18.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 20:36.39 | equiraptor | I've seen the entire series 3 complete times, now, plus that 4 out of 5 seasons. |
| 20:36.50 | equiraptor | It wasn't trek that made me love it. It was ivanova. |
| 20:36.53 | equiraptor | She hooked me. |
| 20:37.03 | equiraptor | I'm a STRAIGHT GIRL, and she hooked me. |
| 20:37.17 | Verxion | well one of the most endearing things about b5 to me was that it had a progressing storyline instead of episodes that were entirely self contained |
| 20:37.24 | Verxion | coupled with the fact that it actually ENDED |
| 20:37.29 | Verxion | ie, they had a true finale |
| 20:37.38 | Verxion | heh |
| 20:37.43 | Verxion | well like I said |
| 20:37.47 | Verxion | hottest Russian EVAR |
| 20:37.50 | equiraptor | Such a great show. |
| 20:37.58 | equiraptor | I loved Bester, too. And hated him. |
| 20:38.03 | Verxion | heh |
| 20:38.04 | equiraptor | Just like I'm supposed to. |
| 20:38.06 | Verxion | yeah |
| 20:38.08 | Verxion | that was the plan |
| 20:38.20 | Verxion | well the other thing was |
| 20:38.25 | Verxion | and I am spacing her name right now |
| 20:38.32 | Verxion | she is the french woman in Lost now |
| 20:38.37 | equiraptor | Yeah. |
| 20:38.41 | equiraptor | Damnit, you said that and I spaced. |
| 20:38.48 | equiraptor | Delenn. |
| 20:38.53 | Verxion | yeah |
| 20:38.53 | Verxion | her |
| 20:38.57 | equiraptor | I think that's the spelling. |
| 20:39.00 | Verxion | I was hot for her for a while |
| 20:39.00 | Verxion | :) |
| 20:39.03 | equiraptor | Of Minbar. |
| 20:39.06 | Verxion | indeed |
| 20:39.10 | equiraptor | She was always motherly to me. |
| 20:39.15 | Verxion | ahh |
| 20:39.23 | equiraptor | I wanted Delenn for my mother, and I wanted to be Ivanova. |
| 20:39.30 | equiraptor | And sleep with Marcus. |
| 20:40.08 | equiraptor | Garabaldi would be a great uncle. Or big brother. |
| 20:40.09 | Verxion | well I liked to pretend that Lennier and her were gonna hook up |
| 20:40.42 | Verxion | cuz I always thought Marcus was too proud to actually end up with ANY woman |
| 20:41.11 | equiraptor | I didn't feel that way about Marcus. |
| 20:42.36 | equiraptor | Oh, Marcus. |
| 20:43.28 | Verxion | heh |
| 20:43.41 | Verxion | I pictured Marcus as a celibate monk |
| 20:43.43 | Verxion | (spelling) |
| 20:45.35 | equiraptor | I did, at first. |
| 20:45.50 | equiraptor | But as he fell for ivanova, I he lost that impression to me. |
| 20:45.52 | Verxion | then you got hot for him and decided he was gonna come around? :) |
| 20:46.15 | equiraptor | I was hot for him from the start. ;) |
| 20:47.09 | equiraptor | Lenier became important to me, too. |
| 20:47.27 | equiraptor | I didn't see him as "hot" or "sexy," but I saw him as honorable and a good provider. |
| 20:47.38 | equiraptor | I guess, if I had to pick one to have kids with, it would have been him. But I don't want kids anyway. |
| 20:47.58 | Verxion | heh |
| 20:48.14 | Verxion | I was sortof that way with Ivanova and Delenn |
| 20:48.20 | Verxion | Delenn was the more proper |
| 20:48.27 | Verxion | probably the most suitable |
| 20:48.31 | equiraptor | The more mothery one. :) |
| 20:48.33 | Verxion | but DAMN - Ivanova! |
| 20:48.35 | Verxion | right |
| 20:48.55 | equiraptor | And sheriden just... |
| 20:49.15 | equiraptor | I wouldn't a touched him with a 10 foot pole. Ok, well, I would have. But he scared me from a relationship point of view. |
| 20:49.29 | Verxion | heh |
| 20:49.36 | Verxion | well that was his role I think |
| 20:49.40 | Verxion | in the show I mean |
| 20:49.57 | Kirkburn|afk | This is awesome - Shatner singing to Lucas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p55YD8QhQ3o |
| 20:50.27 | equiraptor | He had all the courseness of the country boys I knew growing up, but none of the charm. |
| 20:50.40 | equiraptor | Or, at least, not enough of it. |
| 20:52.06 | equiraptor | G'Kar's roller coaster was quite a journey to watch. |
| 20:52.11 | Verxion | yeah |
| 20:52.13 | equiraptor | Can you imagine writing or acting his story? |
| 20:52.25 | Verxion | I actually had more of a love/hate relationship with his personality |
| 20:52.31 | Verxion | than with any other character I can think of |
| 20:53.12 | equiraptor | I was ashamed for him when he fell, and terrified for him when he became a religious figure. |
| 20:53.29 | Verxion | yeah, same |
| 20:53.30 | equiraptor | I was just shaking my finger at Molari... "This is what you get when you'll kill for power!" I would think. |
| 20:54.01 | equiraptor | My view of Molari was a bit simplistic, though, perhaps. ANd my spelling may be way off. |
| 20:54.23 | Verxion | he was EVIL |
| 20:54.25 | Verxion | PURE EVIL |
| 20:54.26 | Verxion | and good |
| 20:54.28 | Verxion | and EVIL |
| 20:54.33 | Verxion | and kindof nice |
| 20:54.36 | Verxion | and HORRIBLY EVIL |
| 20:54.39 | Verxion | and a good guy |
| 20:54.53 | Verxion | I loved his character - brought a LOT to the show imho |
| 20:54.58 | equiraptor | He was making the decisions he felt were best for his goals for both himself and his race. |
| 20:55.16 | equiraptor | And I felt he was a selfish asshole about it. |
| 20:55.23 | equiraptor | And, yes, he did bring a lot to the show. |
| 20:55.34 | equiraptor | but I didn't have the love hate thing for him like I had for Bester. |
| 20:55.35 | Verxion | yeah, he was a selfish asshole |
| 20:55.41 | Verxion | yeah |
| 20:55.47 | equiraptor | I think he tried to turn from that by the end. |
| 20:55.49 | Verxion | I never truly loved Molari |
| 20:55.58 | equiraptor | He saw the death and destruction he caused and learned. |
| 20:55.58 | Verxion | but I understood why he did things at times |
| 20:56.05 | equiraptor | But not enough and not soon enough. |
| 20:56.05 | Verxion | and hated him for the decisions he made, etc |
| 20:56.14 | Verxion | yeah |
| 20:56.19 | bleetah | Vir was prolly the best character |
| 20:56.26 | equiraptor | I wish Na'Toth could have developed more. |
| 20:56.31 | bleetah | or G'Kar |
| 20:56.31 | equiraptor | She seemed to have a lot of potential. |
| 20:56.39 | equiraptor | Vir was great. |
| 20:56.47 | equiraptor | I love when he was playing a video game in a meeting. |
| 20:57.00 | Verxion | yeah |
| 20:57.02 | Verxion | he was a kid |
| 20:57.05 | equiraptor | Watching him "grow up" was wonderful. Watching him learn from Mollari. |
| 20:57.05 | Verxion | with a GOOD heart |
| 20:57.15 | equiraptor | *nod* |
| 20:57.22 | equiraptor | Learn from Mollari, but not taught by mollari. |
| 20:57.30 | bleetah | aye |
| 20:57.57 | Verxion | na'toth? |
| 20:57.57 | equiraptor | I find it interesting that I think of Vir and Vir, and mollari as Mollari (not cotto or londo) |
| 20:58.03 | Verxion | she didn't really ever have much of a role |
| 20:58.10 | equiraptor | Yeah, she didn't. |
| 20:58.19 | equiraptor | but... I wanted her to have more. |
| 20:58.33 | equiraptor | It would have been nice to see into a female narn, too. |
| 20:58.41 | Verxion | heh |
| 20:58.57 | Verxion | reminds me of Lt. Cmndr. Warf on STtnG |
| 20:59.13 | Verxion | there was a scene where they showed a female Klingon coming into 10 forward |
| 20:59.21 | Verxion | Warf is sitting with #1 |
| 20:59.43 | bleetah | as for G'Kar, the 'Dust to Dust' episode, where he has his epiphany for his people, is just incredible (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/050.html ) |
| 20:59.45 | Verxion | #1 asks Warf: Why haven't you ever taken an interest in any of the female crew members on Enterprise? |
| 20:59.56 | Verxion | Warf to #1: Human women are too fragile! |
| 21:00.36 | Verxion | hehehe |
| 21:00.42 | equiraptor | I am too fragile, though. :( |
| 21:00.44 | Verxion | well then they took it a step further |
| 21:00.49 | Verxion | it was AWESOME |
| 21:00.57 | Verxion | Warf was on deep space nine |
| 21:00.58 | Verxion | with a trill |
| 21:01.00 | Verxion | I forget her name |
| 21:01.11 | Verxion | warf was dating her |
| 21:01.22 | Boromir | Hmm.. Wonder if I would enjoy the series today as much as I used to do |
| 21:01.25 | Verxion | and she would end up in medical with a broken wrist, a broken rib, a broken arm, etc. |
| 21:01.34 | Verxion | and the doc would say "How do you keep breaking all these bones?!?!?" |
| 21:01.49 | Verxion | she would say "Um...." long pause... "Racquetball" |
| 21:03.52 | Verxion | ... |
| 21:03.59 | equiraptor | Who, me? |
| 21:04.10 | equiraptor | I didn't watch DS9, but I get it now.... |
| 21:11.01 | bleetah | erm, does WoWWiki not accept SVG images as uploads? |
| 21:11.58 | bleetah | I ask, because most Linux desktop systems use SVG for icons, and the Linux/Wine page are having to host a recommended desktop icon offsite. There's a comment on the talk page "for some reason they don't allow SVGs here (Lame!)" |
| 21:13.56 | *** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim|work (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:14.57 | bleetah | hmm, yeah, looks like PNG/GIF only :( |
| 21:15.44 | amro | yeah it sucks |
| 21:18.39 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
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| 21:22.26 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-83-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 21:42.00 | *** join/#wowwiki Karrion (n=kieron@corp-gw01.imrworldwide.com) |
| 21:47.55 | amro | bleetah, are there guides for all those different distros on WoWWiki? |
| 21:48.16 | bleetah | amro: not yet, but it's mentioned on the discussion page |
| 21:48.38 | bleetah | (a move/split of Linux/Wine to Wine/Linux, Wine/Solaris, Wine/Ubuntu, etc. etc. etc.) |
| 21:48.49 | amro | I saw that |
| 21:48.58 | amro | but is there any content to put in them? |
| 21:49.52 | bleetah | oh, sorry, I misread your question... as soon as I get my Solaris and BSD installs happening, it would. I'm looking at future-proofing the page now before it gets to unweildy |
| 21:50.33 | bleetah | 'coz some of the content as it currently stands, is platform neutral, other stuff is linux specific, some other stuff is distro specific |
| 21:52.17 | amro | yeah |
| 21:52.23 | amro | sounds like a good idea. if you go ahead with the split I'll put up a howto for ubuntu |
| 21:53.23 | bleetah | if you read the disussion page, toxicity999 and sammi *are* Ubuntu users ;) |
| 21:53.50 | bleetah | sammi allegedly being the ubuntu howto maintainer |
| 21:54.13 | Kirkburn|afk | Isn't it nice when vandals flag up with vandalism for you? |
| 21:54.15 | amro | well, I didn't (read the whole thing) |
| 21:54.17 | Kirkburn|afk | *their |
| 21:54.25 | bleetah | amro: heh ;) |
| 21:55.01 | amro | Kirkburn|afk: aww where's the fun in that |
| 21:55.08 | Kirkburn|afk | ^^ |
| 21:55.47 | amro | I have to admit though, "vandalism! muahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaah" is quite subtle |
| 21:56.16 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 21:56.19 | bleetah | I've been toying with the idea of creating a user 'imavandal', just to keep Kirkburn|afk busy :-p |
| 21:57.34 | bleetah | damn, I knew you was gunna be too smart to see through it |
| 21:58.15 | bleetah | s/to /and/ |
| 21:59.11 | Hobinheim|work | infobot, where are you?! |
| 21:59.16 | infobot | I am at 42.37512 N, 72.51999 W |
| 22:00.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Hehe - http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/07 |
| 22:13.23 | Kirkburn|afk | Kaso, you might be interested to hear - MPs voted all an all-elected House of Lords |
| 22:13.35 | Kirkburn|afk | s/voted all/voted for/ |
| 22:14.02 | Kaso | Oh really, that is good a rather good turn of events. |
| 22:14.05 | Kirkburn|afk | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6420965.stm |
| 22:14.19 | Kirkburn|afk | A large majority, too |
| 22:15.16 | Kaso | Its the only sensible way it should be, im glad to hear it |
| 22:15.30 | Kirkburn|afk | I completely agree |
| 22:15.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Here's hoping it actually goes somewhere |
| 22:17.10 | *** join/#wowwiki Karrion (n=kieron@corp-gw01.imrworldwide.com) |
| 22:18.16 | Kirkburn|afk | Hmm, so one of my housemates doesn't agree :P |
| 22:19.03 | Kirkburn|afk | But then, he doesn't realise he's somewhat racist and bigoted, so I generally ignore much of what he says |
| 22:19.14 | Hobinheim|work | ouch |
| 22:19.33 | Kirkburn|afk | You'd be surprised by some of the stuff he comes out with ... makes me cringe >.< |
| 22:20.49 | Kirkburn|afk | If there's women around, you do NOT want to be around him. He stares at them and comments very loudly. Guilt by association :/ |
| 22:21.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Much fun :) |
| 22:26.15 | Hobinheim|work | god i just want to leave work and *gasp* go to the gym |
| 22:26.58 | bleetah | Kirkburn|afk: so, erm... SVG on WoWWiki. Chances of them being uploadable? |
| 22:27.02 | Kirkburn|afk | If you're gasping for just thinking about going to the gym, I agree. Go! =) |
| 22:27.17 | bleetah | hah |
| 22:27.48 | Kirkburn|afk | That requires a plugin? |
| 22:27.50 | Hobinheim|work | can you believe that, i would rather run for a half hour than be stuck doing work. now that's crazy |
| 22:27.59 | Hobinheim|work | svg for what? |
| 22:28.14 | Kirkburn|afk | Images |
| 22:28.34 | bleetah | the linux page is currently hosting the WoW desktop icon offsite, 'coz we can't upload SVGs |
| 22:28.36 | Kirkburn|afk | I think so anyway |
| 22:28.41 | bleetah | yeah |
| 22:28.56 | Kirkburn|afk | Add to WoWWiki:Server requests |
| 22:29.03 | bleetah | will do! :D thx mate |
| 22:29.21 | Kirkburn|afk | No guantees :P |
| 22:29.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Or guarantees |
| 22:30.31 | bleetah | personally, I think it'd help to some degree with your logos, you'd just upload an SVG and have the server create the various scales, etc... but that's just my take ;) (no doubt the server would fuck it up tho, and you'd still need to manually tweak /sigh ;-) |
| 22:30.34 | Hobinheim|work | what are svgs for? |
| 22:30.40 | Hobinheim|work | and what does that have to do with linux? |
| 22:30.47 | bleetah | scalable vector graphics |
| 22:30.55 | Hobinheim|work | bleetah, past that |
| 22:31.02 | bleetah | most linux desktop icons these days, are svg |
| 22:31.09 | Hobinheim|work | bleh |
| 22:31.32 | bleetah | and as the Wine tool extracts a real horrid version of the WoW icon.... ;) |
| 22:31.40 | equiraptor | svgs are for any use of graphics where things may need to change size while retaining quality, if my understanding is correct. |
| 22:31.43 | bleetah | well, at least on my system here |
| 22:32.04 | equiraptor | Hence the "scalable" part. |
| 22:32.18 | Hobinheim|work | lame... |
| 22:32.36 | equiraptor | What's lame? |
| 22:33.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Essentially they can form perfect replicas of a design at any resolution |
| 22:36.01 | Hobinheim|work | linux is lame |
| 22:36.18 | *** join/#wowwiki ech (n=chris@82-71-38-165.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 22:36.49 | equiraptor | Sometimes. Sometimes it's pretty damn sweet. |
| 22:36.57 | ech | hello, are there any admins kicking around in here? |
| 22:37.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Hullo ech |
| 22:37.08 | ech | ello :] |
| 22:37.11 | bleetah | Hobinheim|work: and you use? |
| 22:37.28 | ech | someone's been trying to put a trojan link on the patch mirror page, guy called lasher |
| 22:37.36 | Hobinheim|work | not linux |
| 22:37.39 | ech | wondering if anything can be done? |
| 22:37.44 | Hobinheim|work | ban him =) |
| 22:37.50 | ech | how :< |
| 22:37.54 | bleetah | afaik, there is no truly decent OS. they're all junk in their own way. :P |
| 22:37.59 | ech | presumably i as a random newly signed up user can't :) |
| 22:38.39 | ech | i even installed his patch with trojan too ;< |
| 22:38.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Blocked him |
| 22:38.51 | ech | oh cool, nice one |
| 22:38.55 | Kirkburn|afk | ech, how did you find out? |
| 22:38.58 | Hobinheim|work | aww boo i was going to give him a mysterious cooling out |
| 22:39.04 | ech | i ran the patch and norton antivirus moaned |
| 22:39.13 | Hobinheim|work | moaned, did it? |
| 22:39.15 | ech | someone else called lochy added "TROJAN INSIDE!" |
| 22:39.19 | Hobinheim|work | cuz mcafee never moans at me |
| 22:39.31 | ech | it said i'd just installed a trojan :) |
| 22:39.43 | Hobinheim|work | what's with punishment's teh ownage page |
| 22:39.46 | Hobinheim|work | i dunno what to do really |
| 22:40.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Hobinheim|work, I'm leaving it for now |
| 22:40.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Gonna wait until he gets bored |
| 22:40.27 | Kirkburn|afk | (already deleted it once yesterday) |
| 22:40.54 | ech | cool, well thanks for that |
| 22:41.02 | ech | extremely useful wiki, thanks :) |
| 22:41.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Here's hoping OneCare noticed if I got a bad one :/ |
| 22:41.16 | Kirkburn|afk | *would have* |
| 22:41.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Can't :/ |
| 22:41.30 | bleetah | arse :( |
| 22:41.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Going to make the disclaimer more obvious though |
| 22:42.10 | Hobinheim|work | USE AT YOUR OWN RISK< HURRR |
| 22:42.24 | Hobinheim|work | {{obvious|Don't edit this page}} |
| 22:42.32 | bleetah | Kirkburn|afk: <BLINK> ? |
| 22:42.41 | ech | haha |
| 22:42.42 | Hobinheim|work | {{really_obvious|Execute at own risk.}} |
| 22:42.47 | equiraptor | Not <blink>! NOooooooooo! |
| 22:42.59 | bleetah | :'( |
| 22:44.29 | Hobinheim|work | fine, no blink, we promise |
| 22:44.38 | Hobinheim|work | * { text-stlyle: blink } |
| 22:44.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Hmm, should I just go with a permaban? |
| 22:45.01 | ech | pretty red disclaimer :) |
| 22:45.10 | Kirkburn|afk | I guess it's beyond doubt that it was done maliciously |
| 22:46.01 | Hobinheim|work | chhhhhhh, captain, with have a DNP on the 2.10, chhh over |
| 22:46.23 | ech | the trojan was http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/cgi-bin/virauto.cgi?vid=4294906217 if you're interested |
| 22:47.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Eek, relatively new |
| 22:49.10 | ech | quite a good thing to put in a wow patch i spose, would let you get peoples account details |
| 22:51.10 | bleetah | theoretically, if the wiki's held on a *nix box, and you guys have command line access, you could set up a cronjob to scrape the URLs on the patch page, download the files if possible, scan them with ClamAV or similar, and remove the entry if it's found to be dodgy.... but I'd personally not like to try to implement that ;) |
| 22:51.25 | bleetah | no doubt similar thing could be done on other OS's |
| 22:52.43 | Hobinheim|work | currently, we only hold powers inside the wiki |
| 22:52.56 | Hobinheim|work | anything in regards to the actual server or configuration of the wiki itself, we don't have access to |
| 22:53.33 | ech | sadly most of the links aren't direct, so that'd be hefty, nasty, and at the end of the day people catch them relatively quickly if they have half decent av software |
| 22:53.38 | sancus | you can't lock that page? |
| 22:53.42 | ech | anyways, thanks for the lock, nn! |
| 22:54.04 | Hobinheim|work | i don't even support patch mirrors from the get go.. |
| 22:54.10 | Hobinheim|work | anyway, time to bizzounce |
| 22:54.18 | Hobinheim|work | hopefully i'll program the elinks or bc bots tonight |
| 22:54.21 | sancus | The simplest way to deal with it is to lock the page so only admins can edit, and require people to add their links on the discussion page |
| 22:54.26 | sancus | then just md5 the shit yourself before adding it |
| 22:54.32 | Hobinheim|work | discussion page = same thing? |
| 22:54.39 | Hobinheim|work | sort of... indirect. |
| 22:54.49 | Hobinheim|work | or ask for de-fanged links only |
| 22:55.12 | sancus | The point is you can't trust anyone who is linking a patch in the first place, really :P |
| 22:55.21 | amro | if you follow links on the discussion page you're responsible for what happens |
| 22:55.34 | amro | but that doesn't stop someone from changing the file after its been verified... |
| 22:55.49 | sancus | no, it doesn't |
| 22:56.02 | sancus | The page itself is basically a bad idea :P |
| 22:58.06 | sancus | You could write an automated verification thing, but to do it right would take a bit of work |
| 22:58.32 | amro | just slap a big warning and a link to a free/trial AV |
| 22:58.37 | sancus | And if you're going to do that, the wiki is a poor platform to do it on |
| 22:58.57 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-83-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:59.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Essentially, the disclaimer is there for a reason :) |
| 22:59.14 | sancus | yeah, no one reads disclaimers though |
| 22:59.19 | Kirkburn|afk | I made it red! |
| 22:59.31 | sancus | that's a fairly well known UI principle |
| 22:59.53 | sancus | even if they did read it |
| 23:00.03 | Karrion | the safe way to grab patches from mirrors is to run the blizz downloader after downloading them, to check the checksums |
| 23:00.14 | sancus | most of them don't know how to verify them in the first place |
| 23:00.20 | Karrion | maybe need to add instructions for that |
| 23:01.06 | sancus | personally I would never use any mirror other than http://a.wirebrain.de/wow/ |
| 23:01.13 | sancus | since it's been around forever and proven safe and fast |
| 23:03.00 | bleetah | do Blizz publish their own checksums? |
| 23:03.10 | bleetah | 'coz that'd be the first step I'd be chasing down |
| 23:03.31 | bleetah | otherwise a third party checksum is, for all intents and purposes, meaningless |
| 23:04.10 | bleetah | heck, I'm gunna post that on their suggestions page |
| 23:05.28 | Kirkburn|afk | So what do people think of my new sig? :P |
| 23:06.18 | sancus | doubt they do |
| 23:06.25 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 23:06.42 | sancus | do they even host patches anymore on http :/ |
| 23:06.49 | Kirkburn|afk | I think I've seen it once or twice before, but not as a habit |
| 23:06.50 | sancus | all I can find is a commercial mirror list heh |
| 23:07.46 | Karrion | bleetah: I don't think they tell you the md5 anywhere, though you could probably extract it from the download tool somehow |
| 23:07.51 | sancus | Where official checksums are available (currently for the European and Chinese versions of the patches) |
| 23:07.54 | sancus | haha |
| 23:07.54 | sancus | gg |
| 23:08.23 | sancus | You can check based on the files downloaded from blizzard, yes |
| 23:08.30 | sancus | setting up an automated method to do that is a huge pain in the ass though |
| 23:08.43 | Karrion | yeah |
| 23:09.13 | sancus | I would just scrape the wirebrain site |
| 23:09.25 | sancus | because I'm lazy and they're proven! |
| 23:09.48 | sancus | and the official ones for euro/chinese |
| 23:09.53 | sancus | americans are semi-screwed |
| 23:09.59 | bleetah | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=81959401&postId=818120728 |
| 23:10.25 | bleetah | sancus: if you wanna add the euro/chinese comment, feel free ;) |
| 23:10.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Psyker7 (n=Psyker7@203.28.246.152) |
| 23:11.01 | sancus | sure, as soon as I find where those pages are |
| 23:12.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Need to remove some patches from that page, it's getting huge |
| 23:18.00 | sancus | there I posted the euro link |
| 23:18.06 | sancus | im not digging through the chinese site, fuck that :p |
| 23:18.43 | bleetah | heh, fair nuff. thx mate :) |
| 23:19.10 | amro | my new wallpaper: http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/images/windowsvistaballmerpiraxz7.jpg |
| 23:20.02 | bleetah | amro: so.. you'd be a believer in the 'Microsoft have rootkitted themselves' point of view? ;) :-P |
| 23:20.49 | amro | nah, windows is susceptible to that stuff |
| 23:23.05 | bleetah | well, it's true that computers in general would be a lot healthier if it weren't for the damned users |
| 23:23.46 | amro | yeah. I never got any viruses or spyware while running XP, I took my precautions |
| 23:26.44 | Psyker7 | >.< i'm on the IT committee at my college and you see so many computer illiterates >.< |
| 23:29.43 | Kirkburn|afk | sancus, http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Maps&diff=prev&oldid=3067 :P |
| 23:31.29 | sancus | heh yeah |
| 23:31.34 | sancus | I made like the first ever published map of WC |
| 23:32.48 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 23:33.01 | sancus | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Wailing_Caverns&oldid=3322 |
| 23:33.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Lol - http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Magnusjohanlsn/Beetalbare%2C_The_Corrupted_Shard_of_Aman%27Thul%27s_Rod&diff=prev&oldid=110676 |
| 23:33.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Vidar, eh |
| 23:33.34 | sancus | yea that was my old character name in-game |
| 23:33.40 | sancus | on Burning Legion |
| 23:33.51 | Kirkburn|afk | Ooh, you're a fan of RealLifeComics? |
| 23:33.53 | sancus | when we transferred to Executus I changed it to Sancus because Vidar was taken |
| 23:35.13 | sancus | yea sortof |
| 23:35.27 | sancus | I used to like it a lot, now I just read it out of force of habit, it isn't all that funny lately |
| 23:36.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Greg said he'd be finished with his externment next week so he'll spend much of his time on the comic. I agree with you to an extent, so hopefully this will help. |
| 23:36.26 | sancus | I use the page at sancus.off.net as my homepage for links to things I read frequently |
| 23:36.37 | sancus | I need to update it honestly |
| 23:36.40 | sancus | I never read R&D anymore |
| 23:36.48 | Kirkburn|afk | "to an extent", such a wonderful weasel phrase :P |
| 23:36.58 | Kirkburn|afk | You don't appear to have a wiki either |
| 23:37.42 | sancus | I do, it's just broken since I moved from my server box to a VM |
| 23:37.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Do you actively play D&D? I used to at school, but not at Uni |
| 23:37.59 | sancus | Not anymore |
| 23:38.07 | sancus | my university has a D&D club thingy |
| 23:38.20 | sancus | I used to play |
| 23:38.45 | sancus | man making that WC map was such a pain in the ass |
| 23:38.55 | sancus | I screenshotted the minimap like 100 times and cut and pasted in photoshop ;p |
| 23:39.06 | Kirkburn|afk | I recall one occurence when I was falling down a lift shaft, my friend (an "Armchair Historian") decided to save me by shooting a harpoon at my leg. |
| 23:39.30 | Kirkburn|afk | I soon failed my conciousness check... |
| 23:40.00 | sancus | lol |
| 23:40.47 | Kirkburn|afk | He had one of the best ideas I've come across for destroying a space station though - reprogram one robot to reprogram all the other robots in turn. Once all are reprogrammed, they all proceed to take apart the spaceship. |
| 23:42.37 | Kirkburn|afk | Btw, D&D is where the name Kirkburn came from |
| 23:44.36 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:50.21 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:51.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Official! http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Manual_of_Style |
| 23:52.33 | sancus | bleetah: btw, it's really not so much users, it's designers and programmers that are the problem |
| 23:52.46 | sancus | http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/phishing.pdf is a good discussion of why that's the case! |
| 23:53.09 | *** join/#wowwiki willskills (n=will@62-30-149-134.cable.ubr10.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:53.13 | bleetah | sancus: if there weren't users, designers and programmers would be out of a job. problem solved! :-P |
| 23:53.41 | sancus | Security problems are more often a result of programmers designing things that are weird and nonsensical to human beings |
| 23:54.03 | sancus | that's why warning messages are worthless |
| 23:54.31 | sancus | because programmers have spent decades conditioning people that what you want to do will just work if you press OK, and reading the message is silly |
| 23:56.40 | sancus | A Win95 beta dialog told users “in order to demonstrate our |
| 23:56.40 | sancus | superior intellect, we will now ask you a question you cannot |
| 23:56.40 | sancus | answer” |
| 23:56.43 | sancus | that's an awesome quote ;p |
| 23:58.19 | amro | sancus, if the designers made the process lengthier and more secure the users would complain |
| 23:58.49 | bleetah | I just re-iterate, if it weren't for users, designers would be out of a job, and these problems solved. |
| 23:59.33 | sancus | it's not about making the process "lengthier" |
