| 00:15.17 | Zeal | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2yospcSOjk |
| 00:15.20 | Zeal | mmm.. |
| 00:16.46 | Zeal | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRjiLPNJAA&NR iblinds, lol |
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| 01:13.56 | Zeal | "If we kill off everything in w0w, they'd have to rename it world of unrest and small conflict craft... >_>;" |
| 01:13.57 | Zeal | :p |
| 01:15.40 | sancus | world of pvecraft |
| 01:16.04 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 01:16.22 | Shadowed | They already have world of unrest, it's called class forums |
| 01:19.30 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-8-135.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:20.11 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
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| 01:35.44 | Hobinheim | is this a quick patch? |
| 01:35.49 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-109-51.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:41.44 | Zeal | is it on eu yet? |
| 01:41.48 | Adys | patch? |
| 01:41.51 | Zeal | hey adys, hob |
| 01:42.01 | Adys | ello zeal |
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| 01:42.18 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+v infobot_] by ChanServ |
| 01:42.49 | Hobinheim | hello |
| 01:43.03 | Adys | 2.0.7 is live already? |
| 01:43.10 | Zeal | us it is |
| 01:43.15 | Hobinheim | that's what the goons say... |
| 01:43.17 | Adys | oO |
| 01:43.36 | Hobinheim | mostly small fixes |
| 01:43.43 | Hobinheim | i wonder if they restored imp scaling |
| 01:43.54 | Adys | they did |
| 01:44.17 | Hobinheim | hottt |
| 01:44.27 | Hobinheim | crazy that they can disable it hot but only enable it on a reboot |
| 01:44.35 | Hobinheim | or a patch rather |
| 01:44.41 | Adys | they changed it |
| 01:44.48 | Adys | they disabled it because it was too high |
| 01:44.53 | Adys | and redid the calculation crap |
| 01:44.56 | Hobinheim | yeah but i'm saying the mechanics are funny |
| 01:45.03 | Hobinheim | that they could disable it on the server life |
| 01:45.04 | Hobinheim | *live |
| 01:45.06 | Hobinheim | and not fix it |
| 01:45.34 | Adys | Uhm no |
| 01:45.41 | Adys | they blank the talent simply |
| 01:45.49 | Hobinheim | .... |
| 01:45.49 | Adys | "disable" the talent if you see what i mean |
| 01:46.02 | Hobinheim | so they have access to disable it and not change it? |
| 01:46.19 | Hobinheim | and scaling isn't a talent |
| 01:46.19 | Adys | when you turn on say an interruptor |
| 01:46.23 | Adys | its easier to turn it off |
| 01:46.32 | Adys | than to get the cables behind and change them |
| 01:46.42 | Hobinheim | i guess... |
| 01:46.46 | Hobinheim | like... to me, you're already there |
| 01:46.53 | Hobinheim | you're already in the pet scaling code |
| 01:47.01 | Hobinheim | hard coding an IMP NO statement vs just upgrading the equation |
| 01:47.51 | Adys | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html |
| 01:48.17 | Adys | # |
| 01:48.18 | Adys | # When sharing a quest, the order logic has changed to check whether or not the player has completed or is ineligible for the quest before checking whether their quest log is full. |
| 01:48.18 | Adys | <3 |
| 01:48.24 | Adys | Players can no longer send gift wrapped packages via COD. |
| 01:48.26 | Adys | <3 |
| 01:49.03 | Adys | other than that, meh |
| 01:49.15 | Hobinheim | did people really fall for that often |
| 01:49.21 | Hobinheim | goddammit american idol |
| 01:49.31 | Hobinheim | WHY ARE YOU FORGETTING YOUR LYRICS AND THROWING AWAY AN OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFE TIME |
| 01:50.34 | Zeal | O_o |
| 01:52.58 | Hobinheim | tree people are so unoriginal... |
| 01:53.17 | Hobinheim | anthropomorphic elementals are so last year... |
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| 01:54.47 | Kirkburn | Hobinheim, I, uh ... don't know what to say |
| 01:55.14 | Kirkburn | Wonder how large my music collection is now |
| 01:55.22 | Kirkburn | 45.5GB, smaller than I expected |
| 02:23.18 | weazer | all realms splat |
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| 02:32.38 | Adys | ello kirkburn |
| 02:37.08 | Kirkburn | Ullo |
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| 02:52.50 | Kirkburn | Oh damn, servers are down, aren't they |
| 02:55.40 | Zeal | lol |
| 02:55.47 | *** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Valiento@adsl-69-226-99-154.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) |
| 02:56.07 | Adys | alo baggins |
| 02:56.13 | Bagginsww | hi |
| 02:56.18 | Bagginsww | got the MOnster Guide |
| 02:57.59 | Kirkburn | Cool! |
| 02:58.03 | Kirkburn | What's it like? |
| 02:58.09 | Zeal | it's out? :o |
| 02:58.15 | Bagginsww | yya |
| 02:58.17 | Zeal | bah.. |
| 02:58.22 | Bagginsww | ok frost giants and molten giants are official now |
| 02:58.26 | Zeal | no one reminded me to pre-order >_> |
| 02:58.55 | Bagginsww | heh it has an article on leper gnomes |
| 02:59.48 | Adys | Kirkburn, you still here? |
| 02:59.57 | Bagginsww | Mana Surges are still Mana Surges |
| 03:00.18 | Bagginsww | its used to class the entire spectrem of mana elemental type creatures |
| 03:00.56 | Zeal | cool |
| 03:01.08 | Adys | Ok hold on a second |
| 03:01.09 | Zeal | any lephracauns Bagginsww? ;) |
| 03:01.17 | Adys | What are we gonna do with the BC tag? |
| 03:01.23 | Kirkburn | What do you mean, am I still here?! |
| 03:01.24 | Bagginsww | lya right zeal, LOL |
| 03:01.28 | Kirkburn | I just responded to Baggins! |
| 03:01.40 | Adys | Well respond to me then! :P |
| 03:01.43 | Zeal | well i'm waiting for Kirkburn to change the bc template |
| 03:01.47 | Adys | NOOOOO |
| 03:01.49 | Kirkburn | You only just asked :P |
| 03:01.55 | Zeal | at which point if i see it missued, i'll change it. |
| 03:02.09 | Adys | I think if we change the bc template the wiki is gonna be lost forever |
| 03:02.28 | Adys | Gimme something to do! BC templates to change! |
| 03:02.31 | Kirkburn | Must I do everything around here? ;) |
| 03:02.58 | Adys | Seriously, what do we do with BC item articles? We throw the template up? |
| 03:03.07 | Adys | anyways all the req lvl 61+ items ARE bc |
| 03:03.17 | Zeal | yes |
| 03:03.19 | Adys | so whats the use tbh |
| 03:03.27 | Zeal | so people know? |
| 03:03.35 | Adys | and the req lvl 60- are accessible by non bc players anyways |
| 03:04.00 | Zeal | those won't me marked with bc unless only bc players can get them. |
| 03:04.01 | Kirkburn | If I remove categorisation from the template, the consequences will be very large, btw |
| 03:04.09 | Adys | dont |
| 03:04.14 | Adys | lets just change the templates, tbh |
| 03:04.18 | Zeal | you aren't meant to Kirkburn |
| 03:04.31 | Adys | In my opinion, here is what we could do |
| 03:04.32 | Zeal | onyl needed removing on the inline one |
| 03:04.38 | Adys | Item articles: Remove completly |
| 03:04.40 | Kirkburn | It was such a long conversation I never understood where it ended :) |
| 03:04.50 | Adys | Mob articles: remove completly |
| 03:04.58 | Kirkburn | I don't think it ever was on the inline one, but if it was, yes, removed. |
| 03:05.02 | Zeal | i don't agree with that adys |
| 03:05.17 | Zeal | you may aswell not have the template period in that case |
| 03:05.19 | Adys | Zone and general articles: Keep either {{BC}} or BC-online |
| 03:05.26 | Adys | inline.. |
| 03:05.32 | Bagginsww | well I'm letting VArg know that frost giants and molten giants are an official classifcation of a sub type of "mountain giants" now |
| 03:05.42 | Adys | Well zeal |
| 03:05.44 | Zeal | Varg? |
| 03:05.49 | Kirkburn | There's http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Bc-section as well, don't forget |
| 03:05.58 | Adys | the template was useful while it was still separating content people could get to beta content |
| 03:06.01 | Zeal | bc-section is the inline one i'm talking about |
| 03:06.15 | Adys | We will use {{BC}} for very important articles |
| 03:06.16 | Bagginsww | Varghedon |
| 03:06.18 | Bagginsww | sp? |
| 03:06.21 | Adys | such as [[Hellfire Peninsula]] |
| 03:06.21 | Kirkburn | Varghedin ;) |
| 03:06.22 | Hobinheim | i like cheese |
| 03:06.23 | Adys | Varghedin |
| 03:06.29 | Hobinheim | but cheese doesn't like templates |
| 03:06.33 | Kirkburn | Quite a french name |
| 03:06.41 | Adys | And we will use bc-inline for smaller articles |
| 03:06.50 | Zeal | nope, that's not right.. |
| 03:06.53 | Kirkburn | <Kirkburn> There's http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Bc-section as well, don't forget |
| 03:06.53 | Adys | such as [[Ancient Lichen]] |
| 03:07.04 | Adys | as for bc-section we know when to use it |
| 03:07.10 | Kirkburn | For sections :P |
| 03:07.18 | Adys | Zeal: you disagree every time so dont worry :p |
| 03:08.05 | Adys | go on, what do you propose tho? Im open to suggestions :P |
| 03:08.14 | Zeal | {{bc}} for article that only contain information on content only usuable with BC. {{bc-section}} for sections that contain information on content only for BC. |
| 03:08.18 | Zeal | that was the purpose of the changes |
| 03:08.32 | Kirkburn | You wanted the icon on the far ends, no? |
| 03:08.33 | Zeal | not to be biased to articles and half arsed marked them as BC |
| 03:08.54 | Kirkburn | It was? |
| 03:09.01 | Kirkburn | Oh right |
| 03:09.03 | Kirkburn | Misread |
| 03:09.13 | Bagginsww | also mana surges are a type of elemental, not "ooze" now. |
| 03:09.14 | Adys | well thats what i said |
| 03:09.20 | Adys | i just said throw it up from items |
| 03:09.20 | Kirkburn | Adys, part of the change is to make the BC template smaller |
| 03:09.26 | Bagginsww | works better that way anyways |
| 03:09.33 | Bagginsww | closer to the MMO anyways |
| 03:09.40 | Zeal | mama surges were oozes? :S |
| 03:09.41 | Zeal | lol |
| 03:09.51 | Adys | mama surges.. |
| 03:10.07 | Adys | infobot, beer |
| 03:10.09 | infobot | ACTION has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer)) |
| 03:10.09 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 03:10.18 | Adys | LOL |
| 03:10.36 | Bagginsww | mana surges were oozes in the old RPG books ya |
| 03:10.45 | Bagginsww | well related to oozes |
| 03:10.58 | Bagginsww | that was that mana surges and how oozes were created shared similar history |
| 03:11.07 | Kirkburn | I'm not keen on having icons at the far end, plus they will be out of line with the text without fancy formatting ... |
| 03:11.13 | Zeal | *mana, lol |
| 03:11.25 | Kirkburn | Right, new example: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template_talk:Bc/content |
| 03:11.26 | Bagginsww | their overall history hasn't changed much |
| 03:11.43 | Bagginsww | oozes still have arisen due to mystic causes |
| 03:11.54 | Bagginsww | just mana surges are now directly elemental |
| 03:12.01 | Bagginsww | in nature |
| 03:12.06 | Kirkburn | {{bc}} should be the first template on any relevant page, no? |
| 03:12.10 | Adys | Kirkburn: no need of a banneer |
| 03:12.11 | Kirkburn | (first words, even) |
| 03:12.15 | Adys | or, wait |
| 03:12.16 | Zeal | they'd be at the top of the article Kirkburn, so the icons either end would show that it encompases the article better, rather than being inline with the content of the article. |
| 03:12.25 | Zeal | and i wasn't the onyl one who prefered it, lol. |
| 03:12.31 | Adys | Here is the thing, we want three templates |
| 03:12.34 | Kirkburn | No, no, I don't mean that |
| 03:12.35 | Bagginsww | ahh it says mana surges are a type of "air elemental" in origin |
| 03:12.46 | Zeal | O_o |
| 03:12.53 | Kirkburn | Look at the examples above it Zeal, the icons are out of line with the banner text |
| 03:12.53 | Bagginsww | spawned in areas where magical energy naturally cvombines with electrical storms |
| 03:12.56 | Adys | We want one "big" BC template for major articles |
| 03:13.10 | Adys | one smaller BC template for minor articles (No way we make this one a whole baneer) |
| 03:13.10 | Kirkburn | Which is the one I just made |
| 03:13.23 | Adys | and one last bc-section, well you know |
| 03:13.26 | Bagginsww | actually its odd what it describes sounds more like those mana sprites |
| 03:13.33 | Zeal | i see, yeah i know. can't be fixed tbh.. yay for another reason why css sucks. |
| 03:13.38 | Bagginsww | that hang around kharazan |
| 03:13.54 | Kirkburn | I think that's too complicated, plus you then have the question of what's major, and how do you tell everyone what to use? |
| 03:13.55 | Zeal | i see no reason to have large and small adys |
| 03:14.05 | Bagginsww | "Glowing ball of light bobs up and down as it flits along. Tiny sparks dance around the creature as it moves" |
| 03:14.08 | Zeal | that's subjective and no critera to justify it. |
| 03:14.16 | Zeal | the one single header is fine |
| 03:14.36 | Kirkburn | I can try a bit of fancy coding |
| 03:14.37 | Adys | A small one because we dont want a huge baneer on articles like say Primal Might |
| 03:14.42 | Zeal | why can i never find old forum discussions.. |
| 03:14.43 | Bagginsww | but the picture included looks like every day mana surges |
| 03:14.48 | Zeal | god i hate phpbb... |
| 03:15.03 | Adys | and a big one because we dont want a little stupid invisible thing for articles like Hellfire citadel, Magtheridon or whatever |
| 03:15.14 | Adys | I find it obvious tbh |
| 03:15.33 | Zeal | the old one is two big and didn't differenciate between sections and articles |
| 03:15.36 | Zeal | *too |
| 03:15.47 | Zeal | it was also left aligned, so not obvious is coverted the whole article |
| 03:15.50 | Adys | for sections we will have bc-section |
| 03:16.09 | Adys | and the old one is not really too big for major articles |
| 03:16.19 | Zeal | the new one is half the size, very quick to catch the eye so it doesn't need to be bigger, and centered with icons either end to show it covers the whole article. |
| 03:16.20 | Adys | by major I mean zones and important npcs |
| 03:16.36 | Zeal | the old one was too big for old articles |
| 03:16.37 | Bagginsww | ahh ok kirkburn remember the bog beast types creatures? |
| 03:16.40 | Adys | yes i got no problems with the new one |
| 03:16.45 | Kirkburn | I do |
| 03:16.45 | Bagginsww | turns out they are related to earth eelmentals apparently |
| 03:16.47 | Zeal | and there is no difference between major and minor |
| 03:16.55 | Zeal | i really wish you would stop saying that >_< |
| 03:17.03 | Bagginsww | "primal elementals born of the land" |
| 03:17.10 | Kirkburn | >.< |
| 03:17.10 | Zeal | theres bc content, and not bc content, that's it. |
| 03:17.47 | Bagginsww | heh heh oh not all of them kirkburn others are just "plants" |
| 03:17.54 | Adys | Ok zeal listen, very honestly im not up for making up a template and after 2-3 expansions ending up with 3 different templates on a single item page that requires level 80 and class:spellbreaker |
| 03:18.17 | Bagginsww | the book has articles for tar beasts, thistleshrubs, timberlings. |
| 03:18.21 | Adys | thats the difference beetween minor and major content |
| 03:18.45 | Adys | Hellfire Citadel, Nagrand, Flying Mount, Magtheridon, Tempest Keep == Major Content |
| 03:18.56 | Kirkburn | "WoWWiki has a problem" arg |
| 03:19.00 | Zeal | adys, a better idea if you want to think ahead would be to make soemthing like {{expansion|BC|some other future expansion}} to include into one header. |
| 03:19.02 | Adys | Green Item With 49 Stamina On It == Minor content |
| 03:19.03 | Zeal | but for now, it's fine |
| 03:19.09 | Bagginsww | ok voidwalkers understand but do not speak eredun interesting. |
| 03:19.14 | Zeal | it's not minor adys |
| 03:19.21 | Zeal | its just as important as anything else. |
| 03:19.27 | Adys | right... |
| 03:19.47 | Kirkburn | I think the problem is where to draw the line |
| 03:20.01 | Adys | for me its very simple |
| 03:20.11 | Adys | Major Bosses, Important NPCs, Zones and Instances |
| 03:20.14 | Adys | thats it |
| 03:20.16 | Zeal | it's not liek the item page is in another article, in the terms of the the item artilce itself, it is an important peice of information |
| 03:20.33 | Zeal | in terms of the expansion, it ofc isn't, but that isn't what is relvent in determining anything. |
| 03:20.48 | Zeal | so it should always be the same template |
| 03:21.12 | Adys | but we dont care about that, all we want is present to the visitor a well formatted page, with easy to access information and agreable to read |
| 03:21.32 | Zeal | yes |
| 03:21.46 | Adys | At the moment, anyone reading the wiki daily will very often have "WoWWiki has a problem", 10 different kind of item pages, screwed up content, etc etc etc |
| 03:21.48 | Zeal | and in terms of the articles in question, that information is important to that article |
| 03:21.52 | Adys | and its giving it a bad reputation |
| 03:22.23 | Zeal | what you're saying is how important that article is to the expansion as a whole, which is completely irrelevent and does not justify a new template. |
| 03:22.45 | Adys | it doesnt even justify a template |
| 03:22.48 | Adys | at all |
| 03:22.51 | Zeal | it does |
| 03:22.53 | Adys | neither a big nor a small one |
| 03:23.00 | Zeal | because in terms of the item, its important info |
| 03:23.15 | Adys | the thing is, no way we are putting a baneer on every bc item we get |
| 03:23.20 | Zeal | yes we are! |
| 03:23.33 | Adys | Put it in == Notes == This item is accessible only to Burning Crusade players |
| 03:23.36 | Adys | if you want |
| 03:23.39 | Zeal | no.. |
| 03:23.47 | Zeal | thats being backwards for no reason |
| 03:23.56 | Zeal | it is important information to the whole of the article |
| 03:24.10 | Zeal | so the template should be used just as with any article |
| 03:24.16 | Adys | you are making readers think they are dumb thats just wrong |
| 03:24.23 | Zeal | no i'm not |
| 03:24.27 | Adys | I understand your point but think about the one who reads the article |
| 03:24.33 | Zeal | i am |
| 03:24.41 | Zeal | it's very, very important info |
| 03:24.50 | Zeal | miss that and they could get the wrong idea |
| 03:25.07 | Zeal | if you think otherwise, then there is no reason to do the same for zone articles |
| 03:25.17 | Zeal | *not to do |
| 03:25.33 | Zeal | thus the template should be scrapped all together |
| 03:26.03 | Adys | zeal I see your point but here is the thing |
| 03:26.06 | Kirkburn | How about now: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template_talk:Bc/content |
| 03:26.42 | Zeal | sure Kirkburn |
| 03:26.46 | Kirkburn | div and span heaven :) |
| 03:26.47 | Adys | Ill just make it short |
| 03:26.56 | Bagginsww | added "God" section back into http://www.wowwiki.com/Eternals |
| 03:26.59 | Adys | Here is the thing, item pages are already fucked up badly |
| 03:27.03 | Bagginsww | added citations, needs page numbers though |
| 03:27.44 | Zeal | the wiki is already fucked up badly period. point? shouldn't prevent progress. |
| 03:27.49 | Adys | If you want to say "this item is accessible for bc players only", put it in notes very honestly |
| 03:28.09 | Adys | we made our item pages unreadable because we went 5 different ways |
| 03:28.23 | Adys | I got it pointed out a few times recently and I got extremely annoyed |
| 03:28.34 | Zeal | that's a lack of standars, why should that prevent standards being created? |
| 03:28.41 | Zeal | *standards |
| 03:28.51 | Adys | thats the point zeal |
| 03:29.03 | Adys | before doing anything else major to item pages, put a standard up |
| 03:29.12 | Kirkburn | I'm going to switch template and add a clear before and after it just in case |
| 03:29.20 | Adys | We have a vote in progress that is pretty much going nowhere |
| 03:29.21 | Zeal | it's like saying, let's not use categories at all because items aren't categoriezed properly.. |
| 03:29.37 | Zeal | retarded imo. |
| 03:29.39 | Adys | categories, readers dont care about |
| 03:29.48 | Adys | we propose an article we want it readable |
| 03:29.57 | Kirkburn | (Please, don't rely on me to sort out policy stuff) |
| 03:30.05 | Zeal | lol Kirkburn |
| 03:30.10 | Adys | lol |
| 03:30.23 | Zeal | adys, it's not limited to item pages though, is my point |
| 03:30.35 | Zeal | why prevent a global standard jsut because items are screwed up |
| 03:30.41 | Zeal | *just |
| 03:30.58 | Adys | because both reasons i exposed are valid |
| 03:31.03 | Zeal | they're not |
| 03:31.09 | Kirkburn | Okay, switching now |
| 03:31.11 | Adys | 1/ Item pages are screwed up, we need to sort them out |
| 03:31.23 | Adys | 2/ (goodbye wiki, was nice to meet you) |
| 03:31.29 | Adys | sorry lol |
| 03:31.29 | Hobinheim | ? |
| 03:31.30 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 03:31.38 | Hobinheim | i'm confused |
| 03:31.41 | Hobinheim | what just happened |
| 03:31.48 | Kirkburn | I'm switching BC template |
| 03:32.05 | Adys | 2/ there are minor articles and major articles |
| 03:32.10 | Kirkburn | Yup, database error as expected |
| 03:32.13 | Zeal | 1) templates are screwed up, we need to sort them out. 2) all articles are utter shite atm, we need to sort them out. i see nothing valid to prevent a standard for all articles to be created. |
| 03:32.24 | Adys | for you it might not make a difference but for the reader |
| 03:32.33 | Zeal | i am a reader too.. |
| 03:32.37 | Zeal | it makes a big difference |
| 03:32.43 | Adys | you're not normal :P |
| 03:32.57 | Adys | the reader makes a difference beetween a green quest reward and an article about Magtheridon or Tempest Keep |
| 03:33.05 | Adys | infobot, beer |
| 03:33.10 | infobot | ACTION has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer)) |
| 03:33.17 | Adys | lmao love this |
| 03:33.19 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 03:33.32 | Zeal | just because someone did a bad job creating an set of articles, doesn't mean i as a reader and contributer should no see/use standard that adds information i should know to the article. |
| 03:33.55 | Zeal | *a standard |
| 03:34.00 | Zeal | *articles |
| 03:34.42 | Zeal | god damn useless phpbb search... |
| 03:34.53 | Zeal | and god damn google not crawling this site properly.. |
| 03:35.03 | cladhaire | yeah, damn google! |
| 03:35.03 | Adys | The server at www.wowwiki.com is taking too long to respond. |
| 03:35.21 | Kirkburn | So apparently the Stormcrow Form thing on the wiki is fake |
| 03:35.26 | Kirkburn | We gotta remove it |
| 03:35.27 | Adys | which one? |
| 03:35.33 | Zeal | hm? |
| 03:35.36 | Kirkburn | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=75314201&pageNo=2&sid=1#23 |
| 03:35.37 | cladhaire | yeah, its clearly fake. |
| 03:35.54 | Zeal | er.. Kirkburn.. i think you did something wrong |
| 03:35.57 | Kirkburn | Yes, the server is going crazy atm trying to switch the BC template |
| 03:35.58 | Zeal | scrolling.. |
| 03:36.13 | Kirkburn | What? |
| 03:36.19 | Zeal | yes indeedy |
| 03:36.23 | Zeal | template = broken |
| 03:36.28 | Kirkburn | Ah I see |
| 03:36.36 | Kirkburn | I'll make in 99% width or something |
| 03:36.48 | Zeal | or you could fix it :p |
| 03:36.49 | Kirkburn | Broken is a harsh word |
| 03:36.49 | Zeal | one sec |
| 03:36.54 | Kirkburn | What? |
| 03:37.03 | Kirkburn | Excuse me, what? |
| 03:37.16 | Bagginsww | well grell aren't "demons" |
| 03:38.10 | Zeal | check out discussion page Kirkburn |
| 03:38.12 | Zeal | fixed it |
| 03:38.13 | Bagginsww | they are apparently of fairy creatures. |
| 03:38.15 | Adys | if its a fake its quite a well done fake |
| 03:38.19 | Bagginsww | fey or whatever that means |
| 03:38.27 | Adys | tho lets lock off the page |
| 03:38.35 | Bagginsww | it describes them as being like "orange goblins" LOL |
| 03:38.35 | Zeal | width 100% + padding = a nono :p |
| 03:38.46 | Kirkburn | Oh right, that |
| 03:38.47 | cladhaire | Adys: Why not delete it? |
| 03:38.57 | Adys | I would delete it |
| 03:39.09 | Zeal | another reason why i want microsoft's box model, not the w3c one.. |
| 03:39.10 | Adys | but theres an ongoing unfinished vote |
| 03:39.15 | Adys | so technically im not allowed to delete it |
| 03:39.19 | cladhaire | pull rank =) |
| 03:39.46 | Adys | Kirkburn? |
| 03:40.03 | cladhaire | i'd agree, if you didn't have blizzard confirmation, and _condemnation_ of the article/site |
| 03:40.40 | Hobinheim | ? |
| 03:41.04 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:41.15 | cladhaire | yeah i thought you'd seen that =) |
| 03:41.25 | Zeal | whats going on? :s |
| 03:41.27 | Kirkburn | It's confirmed |
| 03:41.28 | Zeal | what's fake? |
| 03:41.31 | Kirkburn | So yeah, delete |
| 03:41.37 | Zeal | no! |
| 03:41.38 | cladhaire | stone crow form |
| 03:42.02 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Stormcrow_Form |
| 03:42.04 | Hobinheim | *storm crow? |
| 03:42.04 | Zeal | no results..? |
| 03:42.15 | Kirkburn | It discredits the wiki to keep it any longer |
| 03:42.16 | cladhaire | yeah that too |
| 03:42.26 | Zeal | well too late as it's gone now.. |
| 03:42.32 | cladhaire | Kirkburn: bingo =) I was around when it first got put up and flagged today =) |
| 03:42.35 | cladhaire | just couldn't get on irc |
| 03:42.46 | Kirkburn | Thanks for trying though :) |
| 03:43.01 | Kirkburn | Incoming slowness! |
| 03:43.01 | Adys | I kept an archive of it |
| 03:43.03 | Zeal | i was looking atthe stormcrow form is real though? i'm confused :S |
| 03:43.28 | Kirkburn | Btw, links need to be fixed (once the wiki is back) |
| 03:43.58 | Adys | zeal: they were talking about the epic stormcrow form, Ill show you in a sec, removing categories etc and moving it to user page |
| 03:44.09 | Zeal | kk |
| 03:44.43 | Zeal | this is pissing me off, can't find a discussion i had about titans on azeroth : / |
| 03:45.10 | Adys | Which template is the red banner ? |
| 03:45.13 | cladhaire | moral of the story, there will be an epic flightform for druids. its not in game, and that article was solely a hoax.. we THINK it will be named as such, but there's no information whatsoever right now =) |
| 03:45.19 | Zeal | trying to summarize a number of discussions i've had on titans vs old gods vs sargeras etc. |
| 03:48.03 | Kirkburn | Wiki is back |
| 03:48.13 | Kirkburn | Template fixed |
| 03:48.15 | Kirkburn | Thanks Zeal |
| 03:48.21 | Zeal | cool, np ofc |
| 03:49.03 | Adys | wiki aint back :P |
| 03:49.41 | Adys | Anyone remembers what the template for the Red Banner is? Im trying to find it but with the slowness no way I can do that before the servs are back up >< |
| 03:50.36 | Zeal | {{band-red}} ? :S |
| 03:50.39 | Zeal | something like that |
| 03:51.17 | Adys | hm didnt the band-color got deleted for something else? |
| 03:52.22 | Zeal | dunno |
| 03:52.26 | Zeal | i was making my own |
| 03:52.58 | vlad_ | ok so is the template slowness crap fixed in newer mediawiki? |
| 03:53.01 | vlad_ | because geezus is it bad |
| 03:53.04 | Zeal | so.. http://www.wowwiki.com/Druid_Forms needs fixing? |
| 03:53.15 | Adys | ill do that in a sec |
| 03:53.21 | vlad_ | my watchdog starts screaming at me every time the wiki locks up :p |
| 03:53.28 | Zeal | vlad, it's because we are forced to use conditional templates instead of parsefunctions |
| 03:53.39 | Zeal | new mediwiki should help with plenty of other stuff too though. |
| 03:54.14 | vlad_ | ok |
| 03:54.18 | Zeal | atleast that's the idea voidvector suggested and i tested out a bit with some overloaded articles. |
| 03:54.21 | vlad_ | I will do that this weekend then if I can |
| 03:54.27 | Zeal | yay, ty :) |
| 03:54.29 | vlad_ | I'd really like to get off mysql and move to postgresql |
| 03:54.32 | vlad_ | but that's scary |
| 03:54.36 | Zeal | hehe |
| 03:54.45 | vlad_ | since it could be much faster and more stable |
| 03:54.48 | vlad_ | or it could be 100000x slower |
| 03:55.31 | Zeal | i can't find info on when the experiemental template expanding calculations restrictions were added to medwiki as standard if ever, but wikipedia runs it. |
| 03:55.40 | Zeal | *and restrictions |
| 03:55.45 | Kirkburn | Sorted the Stormcrow links btw |
| 03:55.52 | Kirkburn | Good to see you vlad :) |
| 03:55.58 | vlad_ | Zeal: hm, poke me if you find it and they're not stock |
| 03:56.02 | vlad_ | Kirkburn: howdy! |
| 03:56.09 | vlad_ | I've been paying attention here, just laying quiet :) |
| 03:56.20 | Kirkburn | It's the best way :P |
| 03:56.22 | kindergip | it's nice to see you all buckling down and getting your homework done |
| 03:56.56 | Kirkburn | ... |
| 03:57.07 | kindergip | site maintenance.... |
| 03:57.09 | Kirkburn | vlad_, did you see that page I linked yesterday? |
| 03:57.35 | Kirkburn | hmm, that was probably a bit vague |
| 03:57.47 | Adys | lol |
| 03:57.52 | Kirkburn | I think this was it - http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Server%20requests |
| 03:57.56 | vlad_ | so is someone doing something long-running/slow on the wiki atm? |
| 03:58.03 | vlad_ | that's killing it? or should I be looking elsewhere? |
| 03:58.14 | Adys | {{bc}} been edited |
| 03:58.31 | vlad_ | oy. |
| 03:58.33 | Kirkburn | When we edit a popular template the wiki goes down for long periods |
| 03:58.37 | vlad_ | yeah |
| 03:58.53 | Kirkburn | But also if we edit pages using templates it can occur too |
| 03:58.53 | vlad_ | it's really, really best to do that not during US evenings :) |
| 03:59.22 | Adys | Zeal: http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Flightform |
| 03:59.25 | cladhaire | moral of the story: don't edit the wiki |
| 03:59.25 | vlad_ | ok, well, hopefully new mediawiki will help |
| 03:59.29 | Kirkburn | Basically, that page, I created it so that we can organize what things we most need you to do :) |
| 03:59.48 | vlad_ | nod |
| 03:59.54 | vlad_ | btw, the reason why the itemlinks stuff didn't get installed |
| 04:00.06 | vlad_ | I wasn't at all sure how allakhazam/others would feel about leeching their data and redisplaying it |
| 04:00.16 | cladhaire | vlad_: They endorse it |
| 04:00.22 | Adys | Wouldnt be allakhazam in this case |
| 04:00.23 | cladhaire | they've officially helped and supported the itemstats author |
| 04:00.26 | Adys | would be the wiki data itself |
| 04:00.34 | Kirkburn | (I should mention, the WoWWiki has a problem thing, that's been /really/ bad in the past two weeks) |
| 04:00.54 | vlad_ | well |
| 04:00.57 | vlad_ | that sucks to track down is the problem |
| 04:01.02 | vlad_ | like, it'll happen with the templates stuff |
| 04:01.33 | vlad_ | hm |
| 04:01.40 | Zeal | basically, conditional templates, everytime they are used = nearly double the load on the server. since i've been making so many templates lately, and they've now become standard and in use very widely, the wiki has started to grind to a hault, and some pages jsut simply refuse to load if they contain too many conditional templates. |
| 04:01.43 | Kirkburn | Ah, here's a discussion that was had about it |
| 04:01.44 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump#Cooking_recipes_page_of_death |
| 04:01.56 | vlad_ | wonder if I turned on slow query logging |
| 04:02.03 | Kirkburn | (indeed that page is an example of what Zeal just said) |
| 04:02.24 | Adys | btw, a bit offtopic but |
| 04:02.40 | Kirkburn | Bananas! |
| 04:02.40 | Adys | band-red (and some other templates) dont accept urls into them |
| 04:02.52 | Adys | else they go like if there was no {{{1}}} |
| 04:02.59 | Zeal | they probably don't user named params |
| 04:03.19 | Zeal | so the = in it names it, and thus it doesn't work. |
| 04:03.27 | Kirkburn | They're very basic templates, yes |
| 04:03.36 | Zeal | why i always provide named, with numbered as fall backs |
| 04:03.48 | Adys | Oh yeah i should have thought about it |
| 04:04.00 | Zeal | brb |
| 04:08.08 | Adys | protected http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Bc_icon.gif |
| 04:08.13 | Kirkburn | Good idea |
| 04:08.38 | Kirkburn | I'm off to 1) Find my bowl and then 2) Fill it with a mozzarella salad |
| 04:08.54 | Adys | oooh |
| 04:09.11 | Kirkburn | Really confused as to where my bowl is though |
| 04:11.42 | Zeal | on your head? |
| 04:11.47 | Zeal | hehe |
| 04:12.07 | Zeal | argh... |
| 04:12.18 | Adys | Right |
| 04:12.20 | Adys | Tooltip |
| 04:12.26 | Adys | what we gonna do? |
| 04:12.33 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-109-51.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 04:12.38 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ |
| 04:12.53 | Hobinheim | Adys, in regards to what |
| 04:13.17 | Adys | What tooltip are we going to use? |
| 04:13.22 | Adys | the vote keeps going nowhere |
| 04:13.35 | Adys | and meanwhile the boilerplate is based on tekkub's code |
| 04:14.19 | Hobinheim | link? |
| 04:14.53 | Adys | all the item pages hob |
| 04:15.13 | Hobinheim | link to the vote? |
| 04:15.41 | Adys | ah sec |
| 04:16.15 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Policy/Item_Article_Standardization |
| 04:16.29 | Hobinheim | what's to stall? isn't option 2 bashing the competition? |
| 04:16.51 | Adys | yes |
| 04:16.57 | Adys | and once the vote is over, what do we do? |
| 04:17.23 | Hobinheim | carry out the vote? i don't understand what the problem is? |
| 04:17.41 | Adys | the problem is, what do we do once the vote is over to item pages |
| 04:17.54 | Adys | We have many different boilerplates |
| 04:18.00 | Zeal | we work on the boilerplate based on the descision |
| 04:18.13 | Adys | zeal's template, the usual boilerplate or tekkub's solution |
| 04:18.25 | Zeal | well it's not about the tooltip |
| 04:18.36 | Zeal | oh wait, i did do a boilerplate kinda i guess.. |
| 04:18.40 | Zeal | nvm |
| 04:18.43 | Adys | lol |
| 04:18.52 | Hobinheim | what's the diffference between the three? |
| 04:19.00 | Adys | the difference is which one we use |
| 04:19.02 | Zeal | well tekkubs is against the vote no? |
| 04:19.23 | Zeal | and the existing one is against it too |
| 04:19.30 | Adys | the existing one yes |
| 04:19.33 | Hobinheim | link? |
| 04:19.38 | Zeal | what's tekkubs? :S |
| 04:19.44 | Adys | no idea |
| 04:19.45 | Zeal | i though his was the seperate pages? |
| 04:19.53 | Adys | oops |
| 04:20.11 | Hobinheim | like where is tekkub's solution |
| 04:20.16 | Adys | I have no idea |
| 04:20.19 | Adys | the thing is we still want to be able to get data from outside a page |
| 04:20.36 | Adys | As in gather from page A tooltip informations in page B |
| 04:20.39 | Hobinheim | so... why not transclude the tooltip |
| 04:20.46 | Adys | because its against the vote |
| 04:20.51 | Zeal | well the vote has goen rather against that. did you read my comments further down? |
| 04:20.53 | Hobinheim | {{{{{PAGENAME}}}/Tooltip}} |
| 04:21.02 | Zeal | yeah, voted against it hob |
| 04:21.19 | Hobinheim | so.... what are you saying? i still don't get it |
| 04:21.30 | Adys | What we want is.. |
| 04:21.42 | Adys | One page with all the informations |
| 04:21.47 | Zeal | i could still code something so parts of the page are tanscludable.. but if i do it now, it's going to make the wiki next to unusuable.. |
| 04:21.51 | Adys | and be able to get informations in this page to put it in another page |
| 04:22.02 | Adys | do it zeal |
| 04:22.05 | Adys | we just wont use it yet |
| 04:22.07 | Hobinheim | zeal, i don't understand what your proposal is |
| 04:22.12 | Hobinheim | why don't you code it up |
| 04:22.24 | Hobinheim | and if it sounds so dangerous, why even consider it |
| 04:22.31 | Montagg | I gave Angry ogre a last chance to respond to my questions regarding his claims. He failed the test, so I have begun removing further comments on other pages and made a note on his talk page to keep his discussion there and not anywhere else. |
| 04:22.32 | Zeal | because it would use conditional templates. and on such a large scale = dead wiki |
| 04:22.50 | Zeal | lol Montagg |
| 04:22.52 | Montagg | Ragestorm has declared the topic closed, so I'm going to enforce it. |
| 04:22.59 | Hobinheim | uhh aren't tooltips already using conditional templates? why is yours any different? |
| 04:23.16 | Zeal | the old ones weren't the existing ones are mine, and they do |
| 04:23.35 | Zeal | and if you hand't noticed, the wiki performce died soon after.. |
| 04:23.36 | Hobinheim | link? |
| 04:23.47 | Zeal | *, the |
| 04:23.50 | Adys | We wont use zeal's proposal until the wiki has been fixed |
| 04:23.52 | Adys | simple as that |
| 04:23.57 | Adys | meanwhile, open to anything |
| 04:24.32 | Zeal | i don't know parser functions yet, so anything i propose would more than likely have to change to what i can do now with conditional templates. |
| 04:24.54 | Adys | fair enough |
| 04:24.56 | Zeal | anyways.. i'm only going to do it if i'm forced too. as my comments said, i question the need to transclude. |
| 04:25.23 | Zeal | that's an argument the vote hasn't settled |
| 04:25.28 | Adys | tekkub did the transcluding thing because there were "no other way" thats his words |
| 04:25.32 | Zeal | and i'd imagine it's one i will loose. |
| 04:25.56 | Zeal | there was no other way to acheieve what he wanted. my argument is what he wanted is not needed. |
| 04:25.59 | Hobinheim | you're making this entire process sound more complicated than it is |
| 04:26.00 | Adys | No, what you're saying at the moment is exactly what we're seeking |
| 04:26.01 | Hobinheim | why is that |
| 04:26.39 | Adys | We want to be able to define properties in an item page to make them usable in inclusion |
| 04:27.18 | Hobinheim | wasn't there a technique that already does this? for mini tooltis? |
| 04:27.29 | Zeal | i don't see a need to use tooltips outside their pages, prices, icons none of them. quality maybe, but i can only think of one time when blizz changed quality of items, so using that statically with {{loot|<quality>|<name>}} seems fine to me. |
| 04:27.31 | Adys | yes, but with inclusion |
| 04:28.03 | Hobinheim | what other alternatives are there besides inclusion? |
| 04:28.05 | Adys | Zeal no |
| 04:28.09 | Adys | Hob, I dont know |
| 04:28.33 | Zeal | no? rofl |
| 04:28.34 | Hobinheim | how is http://www.wowwiki.com/Comparison_of_Aldor_and_Scryer_rewards not a prime example of why tooltips are awesome? |
| 04:28.34 | Adys | lets just make it simple |
| 04:28.37 | Adys | This: http://www.wowwiki.com/Comparison_of_Aldor_and_Scryer_rewards - |
| 04:28.40 | Adys | its what we want |
| 04:28.53 | Adys | bah hob beats me to it |
| 04:29.00 | Zeal | no, hob, you've obviousl not been around/read my rants on why that page is so awful. |
| 04:29.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Can someone please tell me how to respond to http://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Kirkburn#New_BC_template |
| 04:29.07 | Hobinheim | link me to your rants |
| 04:29.27 | Zeal | village pump, item comparison analysis articles or something. |
| 04:29.38 | Hobinheim | or something |
| 04:29.55 | Kirkburn|afk | In nearly all cases you've been disagreed with though |
| 04:29.59 | Kirkburn|afk | That page is the most popular page of the last year! |
| 04:30.09 | Hobinheim | "This article concerns content exclusive t" |
| 04:30.15 | Hobinheim | the vertical spacing isn't equal and the words are funny |
| 04:30.28 | Hobinheim | see how it's asymmetrical on the top and bottom |
| 04:30.29 | Kirkburn|afk | I fixed the spacing |
| 04:30.42 | Hobinheim | "this content is exclusive to" ...? |
| 04:30.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Yeah, the wording |
| 04:30.49 | Zeal | Kirkburn|afk "This article should be using {{bc-section}} on BC related sections of it, not {{bc}}" |
| 04:30.50 | Hobinheim | this article conerns content is so... indirect |
| 04:31.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Ah, that's a good point zeal |
| 04:31.06 | Kirkburn|afk | I'll say that |
| 04:31.10 | Hobinheim | a ninja badge would have been better |
| 04:31.13 | Hobinheim | instead of striping all the pages |
| 04:31.21 | Hobinheim | it's not really THAT important to know what you CAN'T do |
| 04:31.23 | Montagg | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:32.16 | Zeal | god that page needs layout fixing too.. |
| 04:32.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Done: http://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Kirkburn#New_BC_template |
| 04:32.33 | Zeal | header borders overlapping floated images all over the place.. |
| 04:32.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Agreed, it is awful |
| 04:32.47 | Zeal | oh, and the usual "die infobox!" |
| 04:33.06 | Kirkburn|afk | and the usual /me ignores Zeal again ^^ |
| 04:33.11 | Zeal | lol |
| 04:33.18 | Hobinheim | tag me when the confusion is over... |
| 04:33.20 | *** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:33.37 | Zeal | lol @ hob |
| 04:33.40 | Montagg | Would making the infobox a div help? Because those things are useful. |
| 04:34.15 | Montagg | But they don't get along with other divs. |
| 04:34.15 | Zeal | it'd be a start. |
| 04:34.48 | Zeal | ultimately i wan't to see it replaced with something more sensible and standardized. |
| 04:34.52 | Montagg | I had that problem on my character page. One of the character bars was a div and intersected with the Wowbox in a very ugly way. |
| 04:35.15 | Zeal | aldo would help to drop the images from the corners |
| 04:35.16 | *** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:35.16 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ |
| 04:35.21 | Zeal | wb :p |
| 04:35.22 | Montagg | As long as it can interact with other elements in a predictable way, I'm cool with it. |
| 04:35.52 | Kirkburn|afk | It was a bit of a botch job, I know |
| 04:35.56 | Zeal | anywas Kirkburn|afk, here comes the arrogance. most people are too stupid to know what's good for them. |
| 04:36.02 | Hobinheim | whatever we decide on in any issue, it better be compatible with the bot revolution. once that's done our data mining problems should be over... |
| 04:36.07 | Zeal | so the fact i;ve been disagreed means nothing to me. |
| 04:36.46 | Zeal | *with means |
| 04:37.20 | Hobinheim | uhh watching family guy and playing wow now |
| 04:37.26 | Zeal | boo, family guy |
| 04:37.32 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 04:37.32 | Hobinheim|play | boo yourself, pal |
| 04:37.36 | Zeal | :p |
| 04:37.36 | Kirkburn|afk | You know your wrong |
| 04:37.41 | Kirkburn|afk | *you're :) |
| 04:37.51 | Zeal | i'm waiting Taste, lol |
| 04:38.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Anyway, let's continue the discussion later |
| 04:38.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Gonna eat and do some other stuff |
| 04:38.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Bbl1 |
| 04:38.29 | Zeal | ttyl |
| 04:38.33 | Adys | cya kirk |
| 04:38.35 | Adys | aaah btw |
| 04:38.41 | Zeal | i've got other discussions to get to anyways, heh. |
| 04:38.41 | *** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim|play (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:38.52 | Adys | We need to create a faction categorization |
| 04:39.05 | Adys | Faction:Stormwind, Faction:Argent Dawn etc |
| 04:48.12 | Zeal | bah |
| 04:48.20 | Zeal | doubt it's gunna happen anything soon now. |
| 04:55.00 | Montagg | Adys: For NPCs? |
| 04:55.04 | Montagg | Or just general faction stuff? |
| 04:55.10 | Adys | NPCs and Items |
| 04:55.22 | Adys | NPCs mainly I was thinking though |
| 04:57.00 | Montagg | On NPCs or cats? |
| 04:58.01 | Zeal | Faction:Stormwind, Category:Faction:Stormwind, hm... Category:Faction:Alliance/Factions (Child) |
| 04:58.36 | Adys | much simpler |
| 04:58.39 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Faction:Ravenholdt |
| 04:58.44 | Adys | thats the example |
| 04:59.17 | Zeal | for that.. Category:Faction:Stormwing/NPCs |
| 04:59.27 | Zeal | *Stormwind |
| 04:59.56 | Adys | lets just keep it simple :) |
| 05:00.09 | Adys | we can change later on anyways |
| 05:00.19 | Zeal | yes.. let's make more work ;) |
| 05:00.25 | Adys | of course |
| 05:00.32 | Adys | whats the point of having nothing to do |
| 05:00.32 | Zeal | rofl |
| 05:00.45 | Adys | if im editing the wiki its because i got nothing better to do :P |
| 05:00.49 | Adys | Im glad I have something to do lol |
| 05:01.03 | Zeal | the wiki never had nothing to do |
| 05:01.08 | Zeal | no need to pile more work on. |
| 05:01.11 | Zeal | *has |
| 05:01.22 | Montagg | I would advise against complicated hierarchical structures with categories. |
| 05:01.44 | Montagg | Better to make it like a normal sentence, or employ parentheticals imo. |
| 05:02.00 | Zeal | the latter, it has |
| 05:02.04 | Zeal | it makes sence |
| 05:02.06 | Montagg | (Not that we don't already have Category:Armor:Back. There is a precedence.) |
| 05:02.32 | Montagg | Right, but Category:Faction:Alliance/Factions (Child)... ::Dies.:: |
| 05:02.43 | Adys | hehe |
| 05:02.44 | Adys | indeed |
| 05:03.02 | Zeal | Category:<namespace(aka. article type):<article>/<namespace relationship> (<dismabig>) |
| 05:03.21 | Montagg | More like Category:Alliance (faction), or Category:Stormwind (faction) as a sub-category of Alliance (faction). |
| 05:03.30 | Montagg | Right. It's very logical, but it's ugly. |
| 05:03.37 | Zeal | not ugly |
| 05:03.51 | Zeal | and the above is not logical. |
| 05:04.06 | Montagg | Well, it's easy to fill in the blanks. |
| 05:04.21 | Zeal | no |
| 05:04.31 | Zeal | i see no ability to show relationship there |
| 05:04.49 | Montagg | There being in your suggestion or mine? |
| 05:04.54 | Zeal | and i see article types being used as disambig, which they are not. |
| 05:05.01 | Zeal | yours |
| 05:05.23 | Montagg | The relationship is shown through sub-categories. Category names themselves shouldn't be burdened with relationships. |
| 05:05.36 | Montagg | That's my opinion, anyway. |
| 05:05.57 | Montagg | Only because the more you put in the category name, the freakier it looks, and therefore less inviting. |
| 05:06.25 | Zeal | yes they should, otherwise you are illgogically combining disambig as adjectives to the article type to avoid having disambig in cthe category namespace |
| 05:06.40 | Zeal | you're popluting the base of the namespace needlessly |
| 05:06.44 | Adys | Montag I present you zeal |
| 05:06.53 | Adys | Montag, Zeal.. Zeal, Montag.. |
| 05:06.55 | Montagg | Oh, I know. =c) |
| 05:06.58 | Zeal | rofl |
| 05:06.59 | Adys | :P |
| 05:07.23 | Adys | hehe you know I still like you zeal :P |
| 05:07.23 | Zeal | lol, sure |
| 05:07.26 | Zeal | i know i'm a handfull |
| 05:08.14 | Zeal | the existing category system lacks any logical order or naming pattern |
| 05:08.18 | Zeal | its a complete mess |
| 05:08.22 | Montagg | Well, you're not wrong, and the heriarchical naming is certainly worthwhile, but I don't think you gain as much with it as you sacrifice in aesthetics. |
| 05:08.34 | Zeal | and i feel the categories are the worst thing of all on the wiki atm. |
| 05:08.48 | Adys | s/categories/performances |
| 05:08.58 | Zeal | rofl |
| 05:10.16 | Zeal | lets make Category: NPCs that are in the faction Stormwind that is a sub faction of the alliance (NPC) >_> |
| 05:10.25 | Montagg | Anyway, those are my two cents. We can both agree it needs to have some sort of naming pattern, but I'm not on the Cat Team, so luckily I don't have to make the final call. =c) |
| 05:10.45 | Adys | Woot, I am in the cat team! |
| 05:10.48 | Zeal | lol, i'm unsure as to the fate of the cat team atm :P |
| 05:10.52 | Montagg | Easy, three categories: NPCs, Stormwind (Faction), Alliance (Faction). |
| 05:10.55 | Adys | o noes :( |
| 05:11.03 | Montagg | Hehe. |
| 05:11.20 | Montagg | (Crap. If I alt-tab any more, I'm going to die in Searing Gorge.) |
| 05:11.34 | Zeal | no, becuase the npc is not part of the alliance directly, so you've lost the relationship. |
| 05:11.41 | Zeal | my example was silly anyways |
| 05:11.49 | Adys | European players, you can download the patch already |
| 05:11.59 | Zeal | bg dl? |
| 05:12.00 | Adys | do it now before the downloader dies |
| 05:12.05 | Adys | no, 2.0.7 |
| 05:12.10 | Adys | just log in |
| 05:12.41 | Zeal | done |
| 05:12.44 | Zeal | oh god.. |
| 05:12.45 | Montagg | Anyway, you two hammer it out. You know what I'm going to say. I'm gonna focus on not getting ganked, 'cause my blood elf ass is vulnerable. |
| 05:12.57 | Adys | hahahaha |
| 05:12.59 | Zeal | lol |
| 05:13.04 | Adys | join the club |
| 05:13.17 | Zeal | hows the filling out of the new list coming? |
| 05:13.39 | Zeal | i was wondering if it would be an idea to include the other icons in |
| 05:13.41 | Zeal | ui stuff etc |
| 05:13.58 | Zeal | i've already added thme to the same category structure |
| 05:14.04 | Adys | what do you mean? |
| 05:14.27 | Zeal | race icons, socket icons.. |
| 05:14.40 | Zeal | not part of the icon folder, their from other ui folders |
| 05:14.44 | Zeal | *they're |
| 05:15.05 | Zeal | put them under WoW Icons: UI atm iirc |
| 05:15.18 | Zeal | rofl done |
| 05:15.21 | Zeal | quick download |
| 05:15.36 | Zeal | and with the tracker down apparently.. |
| 05:16.16 | Adys | lol |
| 05:16.20 | Adys | yea its still early |
| 05:16.58 | Adys | http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?wquest=10888 |
| 05:17.04 | Adys | allakhazam has a new interface oO |
| 05:18.25 | Zeal | and it looks shit O_o |
| 05:18.31 | Adys | idd |
| 05:18.40 | Zeal | it looks like thott with wowhead colours.. |
| 05:18.40 | Adys | montag: ragnaros is an elemental and he talks, no? |
| 05:18.44 | Adys | LOL |
| 05:19.11 | Karrion | eww |
| 05:19.32 | Montagg | Adys: Referring to Baggins question? |
| 05:19.39 | Adys | yea |
| 05:19.53 | Montagg | Of course. But do you see his lips move? Does he even have lips? |
| 05:20.09 | Montagg | Point being, something like Ragnaros doesn't need lips, tongue, or mouth to form words. |
| 05:20.22 | Adys | Not so sure, he has a mouth I believe |
| 05:21.07 | Zeal | a gapping maw of molten lava.. |
| 05:21.11 | Zeal | soemthing liek that, lol |
| 05:21.22 | Zeal | either way, he speaks, through magic or otherwise. |
| 05:21.29 | Montagg | I mena, he's not using checkered flags, but he's an elemental, so maybe he has some other means. |
| 05:22.11 | Zeal | lol |
| 05:22.23 | Zeal | kalimag = sign language :P |
| 05:22.29 | Montagg | Hehe. |
| 05:23.32 | Montagg | I think they just call it "suspension of disbelief." |
| 05:23.45 | Montagg | Which we might have to start talking about on some of our talk pages... =c) |
| 05:24.07 | Zeal | huh? |
| 05:24.45 | Montagg | Zeal: "Huh" to which comment? |
| 05:25.24 | Zeal | suspension of disbelief |
| 05:26.28 | Montagg | It's what you do when you go to the movies and you see someone fly in the first 5 minutes. You accept that for the rest of the movie. Now, if you went and saw The Notebook, and someone started flying in the last 10 minutes, you'd get pissed. |
| 05:26.51 | Montagg | You're temporarily suspending your disbelief that "this isn't possible" so you can enjoy it. |
| 05:27.17 | Zeal | er.. ok O_o |
| 05:27.21 | Adys | wah? |
| 05:31.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal I agree about the design. Ugh. |
| 05:32.00 | Zeal | : / |
| 05:32.07 | Zeal | i'm just glad i'm using wowhead now, lol |
| 05:32.26 | Kirkburn|afk | (not to mention it looks broken in IE7) |
| 05:32.55 | Adys | lol |
| 05:33.00 | Adys | from wowradio forums |
| 05:33.08 | Adys | You may take our homes |
| 05:33.12 | Adys | you may take our land |
| 05:33.14 | Kirkburn|afk | Ach, it's /worse/ in FF2 |
| 05:33.17 | Adys | ou may take our pride |
| 05:33.24 | Adys | But you NO take Candle!!! |
| 05:33.28 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 05:34.49 | Zeal | heh |
| 05:35.21 | Kirkburn|afk | woot, "failed to apply patch" |
| 05:35.30 | Zeal | O_o |
| 05:35.32 | Zeal | ul |
| 05:35.37 | Kirkburn|afk | I assume Blizzard may at some point try to support Vista |
| 05:36.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Program Files is a restricted area, so WoW auto fails patching via the game |
| 05:36.21 | Kirkburn|afk | It has to allow you to confirm the action |
| 05:37.27 | Zeal | shouldn't UAC do that be default, ask you when something attempts to? |
| 05:37.38 | Kirkburn|afk | grammar what is? |
| 05:37.42 | Adys | why dont you move the installation folder kirkburn? |
| 05:37.57 | Kirkburn|afk | Into the Documents folder? Not likely :P |
| 05:37.58 | Zeal | rofl |
| 05:38.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Nah, I'll set permissions on the WoW folder |
| 05:38.15 | Adys | into whatever you want :P |
| 05:38.34 | Adys | wait this is vista |
| 05:38.37 | Adys | I suck, nm |
| 05:38.44 | Kirkburn|afk | :) |
| 05:39.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Let's see if it works now ... |
| 05:39.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Better! |
| 05:40.01 | Adys | http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/zillah113/Screenies/gm-cattrainer.gif |
| 05:41.07 | Kirkburn|afk | hehe |
| 05:42.05 | Zeal | wtf, lol |
| 05:42.34 | Kirkburn|afk | Yay, new Family Guy to watch |
| 05:42.39 | Zeal | boo |
| 05:43.01 | Kirkburn|afk | That 5 season Family Guy DVD box set was an awesome purchase |
| 05:43.55 | Adys | We need to show that to the next angry ogre we meet |
| 05:43.55 | Adys | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=120753807&sid=1 |
| 05:44.02 | Kirkburn|afk | You expect me to succumb, Mr. Zeal? |
| 05:45.02 | Zeal | succumb to my ramblings if you want, but don't expect it ;) |
| 05:46.11 | Kirkburn|afk | HONK! Incorrect, the correct answer was "No, Mr Kirk, I expect you to die" |
| 05:46.35 | Kirkburn|afk | Arf, OneCare is a little overzealous in its blocking |
| 05:46.46 | Kirkburn|afk | It reblocks WoW after an update |
| 05:46.48 | Zeal | never used it |
| 05:46.52 | Zeal | only windows defender |
| 05:46.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Blocking WoW causes a error :/ |
| 05:47.00 | Zeal | that makes sense Kirkburn|afk |
| 05:47.07 | Zeal | all av's and such do that |
| 05:47.14 | Kirkburn|afk | They do? |
| 05:47.23 | Kirkburn|afk | Hmm |
| 05:47.27 | Zeal | something could have modified the code to do something malicious |
| 05:47.42 | Zeal | so it resets whenever a program is changed. |
| 05:47.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Guess that makes sense |
| 05:48.30 | Zeal | fianale of dream team season 7 |
| 05:48.36 | Zeal | after this, it all goes downhill : / |
| 05:48.37 | Kirkburn|afk | Never really used a 'full protection' one before. Norton made me stay away from them for a while (plus I'm not exactly "in need") |
| 05:49.04 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-109-51.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:49.07 | Zeal | i use windows defender and do a trend micro online scan if i suspect something |
| 05:49.21 | Zeal | no problems for 3 years |
| 05:49.24 | Zeal | so i'm happy. |
| 05:49.48 | Zeal | oh, and my router's firewall |
| 05:49.57 | Zeal | i can't stand software firewalls.. |
| 05:50.13 | Montagg | This post about the Naaru having ulterior motives is awesome. |
| 05:50.38 | Zeal | it gets /spit from me tbh |
| 05:50.44 | Zeal | seen the theory all over the place |
| 05:50.56 | Adys | Oh btw |
| 05:51.00 | Zeal | everytime, it's been poorly researched. |
| 05:51.08 | Adys | found this deleted post, archived it on wowwiki |
| 05:51.08 | Montagg | Not supported by anything, at all, but it's completely plausible, which I like. |
| 05:51.09 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/The_Madness_of_King_Kael |
| 05:51.34 | Zeal | hehe yeah red that too |
| 05:51.38 | Zeal | Ghostwalka |
| 05:51.42 | Adys | y |
| 05:51.50 | Zeal | surprised there is no article for him |
| 05:52.01 | Adys | Thats why I linked him =) |
| 05:52.26 | Zeal | contact his guild forums to try and see if he wanted to join World of Lorecraft team a while back, but he himself never responsed : / |
| 05:52.43 | Zeal | *contacted |
| 05:53.26 | Adys | to be hones |
| 05:53.27 | Adys | +t |
| 05:53.36 | Adys | i had an idea some time ago about this whole attunement thing |
| 05:53.44 | Zeal | imagine that, your football team wins the championship, being premoted to premiership, then the whole team gets killed in a bus explosion.. |
| 05:53.46 | Zeal | rofl |
| 05:53.54 | Adys | blizzard made it so linear that you cant do an instance without doing others first |
| 05:54.03 | *** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 05:54.03 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 05:54.23 | Zeal | game progression supported by lore |
| 05:54.24 | Adys | so i thought that there may be a possibility of some events like Kael Thas and vashj fleeing before the battle is over |
| 05:54.25 | Zeal | i like it |
| 05:54.32 | Adys | and rejoining you in Illidan's temple or something |
| 05:54.39 | Adys | yeah its a possibility |
| 05:54.43 | Zeal | hm.. |
| 05:54.44 | Adys | but too cool to be real if you ask me |
| 05:54.46 | Adys | but ... hey! |
| 05:54.57 | Zeal | i see what you're saying, but apparently it won't be happening. |
| 05:55.04 | Adys | i doubt it aswell |
| 05:55.06 | Adys | i like dreaming ^^ |
| 05:55.31 | Zeal | arthas does need to escape though.. |
| 05:55.38 | Zeal | i really don't want his story to end in wow.. |
| 05:55.44 | Adys | ARTHAS IS DEAD |
| 05:55.46 | Zeal | *illidan |
| 05:55.47 | Adys | ILLIDAN KILLED HIM! |
| 05:55.51 | Zeal | though it goes for arthas too :P |
| 05:55.53 | Montagg | Arthas Shot First! |
| 05:56.05 | Zeal | wtf? lol |
| 05:56.10 | Adys | hahah |
| 05:56.19 | Montagg | ^(A reference to Han Shot First.) |
| 05:56.42 | Zeal | i see |
| 05:57.35 | Adys | by the way |
| 05:57.38 | Adys | i know its totally offtopic |
| 05:57.44 | Montagg | What? Topic? ;-) |
| 05:57.48 | Adys | but for a while ive been wondering what "TA" stands for |
| 05:57.54 | Adys | as in "thanks" |
| 05:58.03 | Adys | the only thing i could make up was 'truly appreciated' |
| 05:58.05 | Montagg | Not Total Annihilation? |
| 05:58.12 | Adys | .. or that |
| 05:58.25 | Montagg | (Old strategy game. One of the first in 3D.) |
| 05:58.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Lol, Family Guy starts with "Viewer discretion is advised" |
| 05:58.39 | Adys | you're afk |
| 05:58.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh yeah, right |
| 05:58.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Um, bye |
| 05:58.50 | Adys | bbye |
| 05:59.55 | Montagg | =c) |
| 06:00.19 | Zeal | "Viewer discreation is advised, this show is crap" |
| 06:00.21 | Zeal | ;) |
| 06:00.43 | Zeal | TA in terms of thanks? :s |
| 06:00.59 | Zeal | Totally appreciated? |
| 06:01.00 | Zeal | rofl |
| 06:01.16 | Zeal | and yeah, TA was a pwnage RTS |
| 06:01.18 | Montagg | Where does this Ghost guy get his information? Kael has a vial from the Sunwell... Or the Well of Eternity...? |
| 06:01.31 | Zeal | vial from well of eternity |
| 06:01.40 | Zeal | its from a quest line for CoT attunement |
| 06:01.48 | Zeal | er.. Hyjal to be specific iirc |
| 06:01.49 | Montagg | Wow. That's a huge retcon, then. |
| 06:01.55 | Zeal | nope |
| 06:02.07 | Zeal | Illidan gave them to Vashj and Keal |
| 06:02.10 | Montagg | Should be. Illidan had two vials: One was used to water the World Tree, the second was used to create the Sunwell. |
| 06:02.18 | Montagg | So, there should be zero left. |
| 06:02.20 | Zeal | Illidan always had them, they wre considered lost afawk |
| 06:02.28 | Zeal | nah |
| 06:02.31 | Montagg | The retcon is that Illidan took three. |
| 06:02.31 | Zeal | he had more than two |
| 06:02.39 | Zeal | was 4 iirc |
| 06:02.47 | Adys | 5, who says higher? |
| 06:02.47 | Zeal | wait er.. |
| 06:02.53 | Zeal | lemme find the wow radio topic |
| 06:03.02 | Montagg | I'll ask Rage about that, because I know in the WC3 manual it says two. |
| 06:03.06 | Adys | http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=10445 |
| 06:03.14 | Adys | Seven vials were drawn from the Well of Eternity by Illidan. He poured three into the lake on top of Mount Hyjal and a second Well of Eternity was created. For years the rest were believed lost. |
| 06:03.19 | Zeal | then WC3 manualy is wrong :P |
| 06:03.25 | Adys | With the opening of the Dark Portal, we've come to know that he gave one each to his lieutenants Kael'thas and Vashj. Retrieve what remains of them; we will need them as foci to open a gateway to any events tied to Mount Hyjal, recent or ancient. The outcome of the Battle of Mount Hyjal must be preserved. |
| 06:03.26 | Zeal | and WotA would have replaced it |
| 06:03.27 | Montagg | Exactly. Retconned. |
| 06:03.44 | Zeal | nah, fairly sure it was more than 3 evne before then |
| 06:03.58 | Zeal | think WC3 attempted to retcon but failed. |
| 06:04.13 | Adys | Damn these retconners. |
| 06:04.37 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 06:05.52 | Montagg | Aha, it doesn't say two. It does say "several." |
| 06:05.57 | Zeal | still looking.. |
| 06:06.08 | Montagg | That also makes sense, because the Sunstriders were the first high elves, and would naturally hand down something like that through the generations. |
| 06:06.29 | Zeal | http://www.wcradio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3553 |
| 06:07.55 | Montagg | Aha, so he actually gave them to Kael/Vashj. Interesting. |
| 06:08.03 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 06:08.18 | Zeal | so 2 unaccounted for, 1 of them more than likely being used on the sunwell |
| 06:08.22 | Montagg | I like my version better, but I'm not paid to write for them. |
| 06:08.41 | Zeal | i dunno of any lore about the sunwells creation tbh.. i've not bothered to look to hard in all honesty though |
| 06:08.57 | Montagg | It's never explicit how they got into Dath'Remar's hands. |
| 06:09.06 | Montagg | They = the vial(s) used to make the Sunwell. |
| 06:09.50 | Zeal | sadly the wiki page has no reference for saying "a vial" |
| 06:09.56 | Zeal | they is from where? |
| 06:10.12 | Montagg | Was just clarifying my pronoun usage in the above comment. |
| 06:10.18 | Zeal | kk |
| 06:10.44 | Zeal | "Using a vial of sacred water stolen from the first Well of Eternity, the high elves created a fount of mystical power at a convergence of powerful ley energies in Quel'Thalas" |
| 06:10.58 | Montagg | First use of the vials can be found here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter1.html#8 |
| 06:12.01 | Montagg | Wow, the word Sunwell isn't even listed on the page dealing with the founding of Quel'Thalas. |
| 06:12.26 | Zeal | indeed :S |
| 06:13.14 | Montagg | However, the article does mention how the elves used magic "gleaned from the Well of Eternity" which had by this point exploded, so obviously it's some other source that IS or will become the Sunwell. |
| 06:13.25 | Montagg | The first time the word Sunwell is used is on http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter5.html#34 |
| 06:15.14 | Montagg | Oh Kel'Thuzad and your Christ references. |
| 06:15.53 | Zeal | encylopedia uses the same as what i quoted |
| 06:16.05 | Zeal | so it is only 1 vial they used |
| 06:16.29 | Montagg | So one vial unaccounted for? |
| 06:16.47 | Zeal | well, we don't know if it's one of illidans vials |
| 06:16.56 | Zeal | *illidan's |
| 06:17.37 | Zeal | or one, likely the suntrider dynatsy, might have stolen themselves before the sundering. |
| 06:17.37 | Montagg | True. But, given any further information, it's most likely one of them. So far it's always been assumed the Sunwell came out of Illidan's stash. |
| 06:17.46 | Zeal | aye yeah |
| 06:18.01 | Zeal | there is definitely one unaccounted for, possibly two |
| 06:18.16 | Zeal | i suspect illidan would kep one on himself, rather than give his last two away. |
| 06:18.20 | Zeal | *keep |
| 06:18.25 | Montagg | Most likely. |
| 06:18.44 | Montagg | New quest line: Get all three vials, make a well of eternity on Outland. Muahahaha! |
| 06:19.02 | Zeal | well you need the first two vials for hyjal attunement |
| 06:19.18 | Adys | lol montagg |
| 06:19.19 | Montagg | Seriously? Hmm. Ouch. |
| 06:19.34 | Zeal | and hyjal is more than likely needed to be completed for black temple attunement |
| 06:19.54 | Adys | Montagg, did you check the link :P |
| 06:19.56 | Adys | http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=10445 |
| 06:20.06 | Montagg | Yeah, I did. |
| 06:21.14 | Zeal | enter black temple, fight illidan. Illidan: "I was not prepared!". Illidan opens a portal to somewhere and flees, not having time to take his vial and having dropped his glaives in the fighting ;) |
| 06:21.27 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 06:21.29 | Montagg | Hunter loot. |
| 06:21.32 | Zeal | haha |
| 06:21.32 | Adys | lol |
| 06:21.57 | Adys | honestly, you really think theyll let us kill illidan so fast? |
| 06:22.04 | Montagg | Defeat? Yes. |
| 06:22.16 | Adys | defeat, kill, whatever |
| 06:22.22 | Adys | will be like arthas vs illidan |
| 06:22.28 | Zeal | 0.01% change drop of [Eyes of the Demon Hunter], allowing you to wtfpwn all magic users |
| 06:22.41 | Adys | we take the loot and port to shatt, kael thas and vashj come and rez him |
| 06:22.55 | Zeal | *chance |
| 06:23.35 | Adys | and off they are to northrend again, cya in World of Warcraft: The Undead Army |
| 06:23.47 | Zeal | well in truth, allowing you to see funky colours as if your gfx card has overheated :p |
| 06:24.06 | Adys | The Undead Crusade... |
| 06:24.08 | Zeal | i'm really hoping for WC4 |
| 06:24.17 | Montagg | About as likely as Starcraft 2. |
| 06:24.18 | Zeal | in like 5 years of something. |
| 06:24.23 | Adys | Or diablo III... |
| 06:24.34 | Zeal | well i doubt they will make WoW2 |
| 06:24.50 | Zeal | and they have given a limited period of time they want WoW to last. |
| 06:25.00 | Montagg | All future sequals to Blizzard titles will take place in the WoW universe, as can be shown by the inclusion of the Zerg (Qiraj) and the Protoss (Draenei) in the game. |
| 06:25.01 | Adys | you bet? |
| 06:25.13 | Adys | wow is a social game, how many times am i gonna say that |
| 06:25.14 | Zeal | rofl Montagg |
| 06:25.37 | Adys | ppl stay because they have friends |
| 06:25.59 | Zeal | i'm not saying wow dies |
| 06:26.08 | Zeal | just no more content updates |
| 06:26.24 | Montagg | I disagree that there won't be a WoW2. |
| 06:26.25 | Zeal | its still a huge money maker and worth their time to keep it going. |
| 06:26.29 | Montagg | It's highly viable, commercially. |
| 06:26.29 | Adys | Mages: Molten Armor now has a new, unique icon. |
| 06:26.36 | Zeal | commercially yes |
| 06:26.59 | Zeal | but MMO genre is limiting, especially the approach WoW took |
| 06:27.12 | Montagg | Limiting to the story, but we know how much the story matters to Blizzard. |
| 06:27.14 | Zeal | in terms of stroy telling and a dynamic world. |
| 06:27.32 | Adys | Well the thing is |
| 06:27.35 | Zeal | well it's what blizzard are known for and do well |
| 06:27.48 | Zeal | so it matters plenty to them imo. |
| 06:27.53 | Adys | either they continue wow and change it |
| 06:28.05 | Montagg | I want it to matter plenty to them precisely for those reasons. I'm not sure that it really does |
| 06:28.18 | Adys | or they make wow 2, but then the changes would be so drastic not to make it into wow 1 that im not sure if they would think its worth the money |
| 06:28.38 | Zeal | well post-wow will be the test of it Montagg i eagerly await that day. |
| 06:28.50 | Montagg | I'm curious, too, Zeal. |
| 06:29.13 | Montagg | I think the model will be what Adys described. |
| 06:29.37 | Montagg | But what WoW2 will actually entail is something we won't see for a long, long time. |
| 06:29.40 | Zeal | er.. that seemed anti-wow2? :s |
| 06:29.51 | Zeal | what adys said |
| 06:29.52 | Adys | Well |
| 06:29.55 | Adys | dingdingding |
| 06:30.08 | Adys | the thing is if they do the good drastic changes wow needs |
| 06:30.16 | Adys | they have an almost perfect game |
| 06:30.21 | Adys | atm what the game lacks is content |
| 06:30.21 | Montagg | Well, he said WoW2 will continue, WoW 1 will stagnate, which I agree will most likely happen if they make a sequal. |
| 06:30.24 | Adys | Social: It has it |
| 06:30.28 | Adys | Community: it has it |
| 06:30.31 | Adys | graphics: they are here |
| 06:30.35 | Adys | lore: its there too |
| 06:30.47 | Adys | they have everything |
| 06:31.48 | Montagg | I would actually prefer a Diable 2-like game where you play with a small group of people and go through a campaign with more character development. |
| 06:31.48 | Zeal | i think wow is an experiment for them, i think they will look on it as a great success, but see it's failure, and realize a rehash and attempting to do it better would only mean people stop playing wow. producing a game that doesn't compete again wow, so they can still pull in money, ie an RTS again, will allow them to improve on previous rts incarnations, while still making more money. |
| 06:31.51 | Adys | SPAM |
| 06:32.06 | Adys | walltext crits you for over nine thousand |
| 06:32.08 | Zeal | *against |
| 06:32.22 | Montagg | Actually, I agree with you, Zeal. It's much more commercially viable to make a non-competing game. |
| 06:32.32 | Zeal | basiclaly. WoW2 would kill WoW. WC4 wouldn't. which is a better choice? |
| 06:32.44 | Zeal | hehe |
| 06:32.47 | Montagg | Depends on how many people are playing WoW on the day they decide. =c) |
| 06:32.55 | Zeal | true true |
| 06:33.07 | Adys | 8 million and keeps growing huh |
| 06:33.10 | Zeal | but i think wow could continue even without new content, for atleast 2 years |
| 06:33.19 | Adys | wait zeal |
| 06:33.24 | Adys | just so you know |
| 06:33.43 | Adys | it made all the way with almost no content other than naxxramas for one year and 10 months :P |
| 06:34.05 | Zeal | aye |
| 06:34.23 | Montagg | Was it that long between ZG and Naxx? |
| 06:34.36 | Adys | come on, zg wasnt content |
| 06:34.41 | Adys | even bwl wasnt real content |
| 06:34.41 | Zeal | rofl |
| 06:34.42 | Montagg | Hehe, okay okay. |
| 06:34.43 | Zeal | ofc it was |
| 06:34.48 | Adys | pfff |
| 06:35.15 | Adys | it was a shit instance, but very good in the 5man area |
| 06:35.22 | Adys | boring and tiresome |
| 06:35.29 | Adys | and way too easy with that |
| 06:35.32 | Zeal | quality of content doesn't really detract from it's appeal |
| 06:35.36 | Adys | AQ? it killed guilds and players |
| 06:35.50 | Zeal | "oo its new nad shiny and makes my char better if i do it, gief!" |
| 06:35.51 | Montagg | 40-mans in general did that. |
| 06:35.56 | Adys | No way |
| 06:36.04 | Adys | Naxxramas boosted 40man guilds like never |
| 06:36.15 | Adys | Naxx, THAT was real content |
| 06:36.16 | Zeal | AQ killed guilds? :S |
| 06:36.20 | Adys | Oh yeah |
| 06:36.25 | Zeal | did quite the opposite from what i saw :s |
| 06:36.35 | Adys | you've seen nothing |
| 06:36.54 | Zeal | most of the guilds i saw die died after doing bwl, before aq was out. |
| 06:36.55 | Adys | many guilds disbanded because of having to grind something that doesnt exist |
| 06:37.05 | Adys | they had to grind nature resistance gear, go FIND that |
| 06:37.17 | Zeal | yet they still did it |
| 06:37.18 | Adys | on high pop servers, emerald dragons were CAMPED |
| 06:37.24 | Adys | no zeal |
| 06:37.29 | Adys | the ones who did it survived |
| 06:37.29 | Zeal | yes Adys |
| 06:37.31 | Zeal | :p |
| 06:37.38 | Adys | the ones who didnt do it disbanded |
| 06:37.42 | Adys | or died |
| 06:38.08 | Adys | My former guild died about a month after AQ's opening on Stormrage |
| 06:38.12 | Adys | they were stuck |
| 06:38.12 | Zeal | everything on azeroth after lvl 56 is rather dead now anyways, heh. |
| 06:38.18 | Adys | for like 4-5 months on the same boss |
| 06:38.23 | Adys | ppl stopped showing up |
| 06:38.28 | Adys | they started wipeing in MC |
| 06:38.41 | Zeal | and how many guilds died just because they couldn't do zg? |
| 06:38.42 | Adys | attendance became shit, people whining all over, quitting the guild |
| 06:38.46 | Adys | officers massrecruiting.. |
| 06:38.51 | Zeal | it's relative tbh. |
| 06:38.56 | Adys | what guild couldnt do zg? come on |
| 06:39.01 | Adys | Im speaking of Huhuran here |
| 06:39.03 | Zeal | and i don't think it belittes the appeal of the content |
| 06:39.06 | Adys | impossible to do without NR gear |
| 06:39.16 | Zeal | plenty of casual guilds |
| 06:39.24 | Adys | honestly zeal |
| 06:39.29 | Adys | its not me sayign it but |
| 06:39.36 | Adys | who the fuck cares about casual guilds pre BC? |
| 06:39.39 | Adys | No one |
| 06:39.45 | Zeal | most guilds die before making it through mc. |
| 06:39.54 | Zeal | pre BC? |
| 06:39.55 | Zeal | lol |
| 06:39.59 | Adys | Yes pre bc |
| 06:40.03 | Zeal | many people do |
| 06:40.03 | Adys | bc kills hardcore guilds |
| 06:40.11 | Montagg | Blizzard's accounting department apparently cared about casual guilds. |
| 06:40.29 | Zeal | release or content are you talking about? |
| 06:40.31 | Adys | enough to make BC so casual freindly for sure |
| 06:40.42 | Zeal | as they result in ooposite answers :p |
| 06:40.59 | Adys | look |
| 06:41.04 | Adys | 2.0 killed the game itself |
| 06:41.10 | Zeal | bc is still not casual friendly enough imo, but it's a vast improvement. |
| 06:41.13 | Adys | it was a game made for something that wasnt here yet |
| 06:41.21 | Adys | hardcore guilds stopped raiding altogether |
| 06:41.31 | Zeal | wasn't here yet? |
| 06:41.38 | Adys | yes |
| 06:41.39 | Adys | 2.0 |
| 06:41.41 | Adys | not bc yet |
| 06:41.45 | Zeal | you mean a game made for players that weren't there yet.. |
| 06:41.45 | Adys | the before the storm patch |
| 06:41.53 | Zeal | 2.0 was bc.. |
| 06:41.54 | Adys | same thing |
| 06:42.03 | Adys | dont get me started |
| 06:42.06 | Zeal | theres a difference in your statement though. |
| 06:42.16 | Adys | you know what im talking about |
| 06:42.26 | Zeal | pre-bc content release or pre-bc content (ie pre-60) |
| 06:42.29 | Zeal | no i don't |
| 06:42.32 | Adys | guilds that still had bosses to kill some of them kept raiding, if they didnt have too many ppl who were doing something else |
| 06:42.56 | Adys | Im speaking of the time beetween 2.0's release before the 16th of January |
| 06:43.24 | Zeal | i don't follow |
| 06:43.29 | Adys | Look |
| 06:43.36 | Adys | Patch 2.0.1 |
| 06:43.44 | Adys | the patch was called "Before the Storm" |
| 06:43.49 | Adys | there was a pvp revamp |
| 06:43.54 | Adys | new talents for everyone |
| 06:43.58 | Zeal | aye |
| 06:44.25 | Adys | all that kind of shit |
| 06:44.25 | Adys | that was released during december, early december |
| 06:44.25 | Adys | and Im speaking of the time beetween THIS day |
| 06:44.31 | Adys | and the 16th of january, release of BC |
| 06:44.42 | Adys | THIS period of time killed the game |
| 06:44.47 | Zeal | how did that kill guilds? |
| 06:44.50 | Zeal | or the game? |
| 06:44.57 | Adys | because: |
| 06:45.07 | Zeal | cos i see no impact on it. |
| 06:45.09 | Adys | classes designed for a level they werent at yet, same for talents |
| 06:45.25 | Adys | all the pvp rush and easy epic gear, people interested in something else |
| 06:45.43 | Adys | Old pvpers with nothing left to do since pve was already left out |
| 06:45.55 | Adys | all addons broken, problems in guilds |
| 06:46.00 | Zeal | pvp was just content appeal. the class and talent changes were fixes and improvements and had no negative impact imo. |
| 06:46.01 | Adys | raiding pauses, people whining |
| 06:46.11 | Adys | thats where you're wrong |
| 06:46.21 | Adys | everyone going offspec etc that had a HUGE impact in raiding guilds |
| 06:46.26 | Adys | pvp specs |
| 06:46.29 | Adys | new talents and shit |
| 06:46.49 | Adys | Ive seen it of my own eyes, guilds went totally inactive as of 2.0's release |
| 06:47.04 | Zeal | addons being broken, fault of the developers, people need to learn to play the game without addons (harsh demand, and fault of blizz, but something that must be accepted nd the blame lies on the players) |
| 06:47.05 | Adys | and when BC was released, who the f cares about raids? I want to level up! |
| 06:47.19 | Adys | but thats nothing to do with the players |
| 06:47.26 | Adys | the players just want to raid/play/whatever |
| 06:47.32 | Adys | and they couldnt do that properly |
| 06:47.33 | Zeal | going offspec = content appeal |
| 06:47.45 | Adys | Yes and raids TOTALLY changed |
| 06:47.57 | Adys | aggro going mad because players doing much higher damage than normal |
| 06:47.59 | *** part/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 06:47.59 | Zeal | and now you;re skipping ahead, because bc wasn't released ;) |
| 06:48.15 | Adys | reread what i said |
| 06:48.29 | Adys | "and when BC was released, who the f cares about raids?" |
| 06:49.06 | Zeal | content appeal is the the player's fault. not the game. if you can't keep your guild inline not to do soemthing stupid like "oo shiney, i'm going to ignore the guild's needs just to try it" thne i'm glad they died. |
| 06:49.17 | Zeal | i did |
| 06:49.19 | Adys | but i dont care whose fault it is |
| 06:49.22 | Adys | i agree with you |
| 06:49.32 | Adys | the fact is, guilds died by the hand of all of this |
| 06:49.42 | Zeal | and i'm saying it's their own fault |
| 06:49.48 | Zeal | thus no need to blame 2.0 |
| 06:49.53 | Adys | but who cares whose fault it is zeal? |
| 06:49.58 | Zeal | you, me? |
| 06:50.03 | Adys | I dont |
| 06:50.03 | Zeal | that was the point of the argument |
| 06:50.15 | Adys | Im saying 2.0 by refeering it as a date |
| 06:50.29 | Zeal | you're complaining about 2.0, when you should be complaining about guilds and the lack of tools to organize them in wow. |
| 06:50.46 | Adys | No im not complaining! |
| 06:50.49 | Adys | Im stating facts |
| 06:50.55 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 06:50.56 | Adys | guilds died during that time |
| 06:51.03 | Zeal | that's fine then |
| 06:51.17 | Adys | And when BC was released then! |
| 06:51.19 | Zeal | but you seemed to blame what happened instead of the real problem. |
| 06:51.36 | Adys | hardcore guilds? pft, no one was raiding since now what, 3 months? |
| 06:51.38 | Zeal | a problem that has existed since day one. |
| 06:51.39 | Adys | almost |
| 06:51.48 | Adys | whining, whining |
| 06:51.53 | Adys | ppl say ooo i wanna raid plx |
| 06:51.57 | Zeal | well that's because everyone wants to get to 70 and get the new content.. |
| 06:52.10 | Adys | yes it is but thats not my point! |
| 06:52.13 | Zeal | once that's settled down again, it's back to raiding. |
| 06:52.22 | Adys | for casual guilds, yes! |
| 06:52.27 | Zeal | no |
| 06:52.28 | Adys | Hardcore guilds wont stand long |
| 06:52.28 | Zeal | for all |
| 06:52.33 | Zeal | stand long? |
| 06:52.35 | Adys | they will get the epics and then... |
| 06:52.35 | Zeal | why? |
| 06:52.47 | Zeal | er.. it's no different |
| 06:52.54 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 06:52.55 | Adys | because hardcore guilds have statistically the most skilled players |
| 06:53.05 | Adys | and particularly as a matter of fact |
| 06:53.09 | Adys | the most dedicated players |
| 06:53.11 | Zeal | in fact the ability to get epics is now even more random a length of time. |
| 06:53.14 | Adys | and they will be 70 faster |
| 06:53.20 | Adys | and they will complete attunements faster |
| 06:53.24 | Adys | and they will raid faster |
| 06:53.33 | Zeal | why faster? |
| 06:53.43 | Adys | because they are more dedicated in the game |
| 06:53.44 | Zeal | they've always doen all of that faster that casuals |
| 06:53.58 | Adys | and they wont quit their guild, hence the guild will have still almost a 40man team |
| 06:54.03 | Zeal | the new content has no speed imrpovements for them over casuals. |
| 06:54.25 | Adys | what will happen to these guilds? they will split up into 2, 3 even 4 teams to do stuff like karazhan and stuff |
| 06:54.25 | Zeal | well guild sizes was a change, a good one imo |
| 06:54.50 | Adys | and eventually they will disband to reform into 2-3 new guilds, most likely 2 with the rest quitting the game or joining another guild |
| 06:54.59 | Zeal | good |
| 06:55.20 | Adys | casual guilds will take their time to the attunements and give it say 2 months until they start the 25mans |
| 06:55.23 | Zeal | will allow them to better organize themselves, form closer bonds, imrpove their ability as a group. |
| 06:55.40 | Adys | which is good! it gives the time for ppl to quit the guild if they suck and cant complete the attunements or whatever |
| 06:56.12 | Zeal | well casuals should be measured in time in-game, not out of it. |
| 06:56.20 | Zeal | out of it, they'd take 10 times longer |
| 06:56.21 | Adys | its what im doing! |
| 06:56.26 | Zeal | in-game, 1-2x |
| 06:56.26 | Adys | they will gather up a dedicated casual group of the most skilled players they could find |
| 06:56.48 | Adys | they will form up because they will have the time to do it |
| 06:56.54 | Adys | else its like ZG |
| 06:56.57 | Adys | its rushed! |
| 06:57.00 | Adys | its mindless content |
| 06:57.02 | Adys | useless content |
| 06:57.06 | Adys | pointless content |
| 06:57.14 | Adys | and it gets players bored |
| 06:57.20 | Adys | players quit |
| 06:57.30 | Adys | and the more players quit the game, the more likely it is for others to quit the game |
| 06:57.31 | Zeal | hm? |
| 06:57.56 | Zeal | it was the hardcore guilds that requested ZG and felt it was needed as a stepping stone for prgress before MC. |
| 06:57.58 | Adys | why? because these players quit their guild aswell and leave a spot. when more of them start leaving, the guild is entering some sort of comatic status |
| 06:58.13 | Adys | pffff |
| 06:58.17 | Adys | zg is harder than mc |
| 06:58.22 | Zeal | adys.. i have no idea what you're talking about or what point you'd chasing :P |
| 06:58.23 | Adys | hardcore guilds just had the gear to zerg it |
| 06:58.29 | Adys | Im just saying |
| 06:58.33 | Adys | casual guilds will survive |
| 06:58.40 | Zeal | well gear progression isn't the fault of the game. |
| 06:58.40 | Adys | hardcore guilds will split up, disband, quit the game. |
| 06:58.57 | Adys | it is, blizzard has the control over everyone |
| 06:59.16 | Adys | the nature of the content you give will change everyone playing the game |
| 06:59.30 | Zeal | what, so blizzard, when adding in earlier content, should suck off your epics from later isntances when you go to zg? lol |
| 06:59.43 | Adys | Example: Badges of Justice from Heroic instances |
| 06:59.49 | Adys | 100% droprate, no real hard grind |
| 07:00.04 | Adys | easy to get |
| 07:00.04 | Adys | and everyone gets one |
| 07:00.04 | Zeal | they do? |
| 07:00.05 | Adys | everyone is happy, easyepix for everyone |
| 07:00.07 | Adys | Yep |
| 07:00.11 | Zeal | hm.. |
| 07:00.14 | Zeal | sure about thaT? |
| 07:00.19 | Adys | yepp, been there |
| 07:00.20 | Zeal | in beta it wasn;t |
| 07:00.21 | Zeal | :S |
| 07:00.25 | Zeal | had to roll |
| 07:00.37 | Zeal | well that changes my thoughts on the new system then.. |
| 07:00.38 | Adys | better that way if you ask me |
| 07:00.48 | Adys | anyways, ppl are happy |
| 07:00.48 | Zeal | to a posistive view |
| 07:00.55 | Zeal | glad they've doen that. |
| 07:01.02 | Adys | but if you give loot hard to get, grinds long and boring |
| 07:01.19 | Adys | uninteresting shit and very good rewards |
| 07:01.24 | Adys | there will be whine and whine and whine |
| 07:01.29 | Adys | drama, guilds disbanding |
| 07:01.42 | Adys | Blizzard has the control on over 4 million players :) |
| 07:01.55 | Zeal | lets send 40 players, on a several hour long raid, and drop maybe 3-4 items people want, which each player needing 5+ items.. that was a bad idea from the get go, lol. |
| 07:03.14 | Zeal | so, how are guilds handling loot atm, is dkp still being used? |
| 07:03.38 | Zeal | cos really i see no need for it now. |
| 07:03.48 | Adys | atm my old guild.. |
| 07:03.58 | Adys | the one I left for my new casual guild.. :P |
| 07:04.04 | Adys | is rolling all items |
| 07:04.48 | Zeal | cool |
| 07:04.51 | Zeal | glad i guess. |
| 07:07.14 | sancus | er what? |
| 07:07.23 | sancus | why would hardcore guilds quit? |
| 07:07.24 | Adys | morning sancus |
| 07:07.37 | Adys | Look at it this way |
| 07:07.48 | Adys | Splitting up into multiple teams leads any guild to death |
| 07:07.55 | Adys | ive seen it done, there is no other solution |
| 07:07.58 | Adys | you split up, you die |
| 07:08.11 | Adys | and karazhan particularly splits hardcore guilds up into 2-3 teams |
| 07:08.21 | sancus | I dont know of any hardcore guilds who have quit |
| 07:08.26 | Adys | and worse, the 25mans splits them up into a team and half |
| 07:08.29 | Adys | that will come dont worry |
| 07:08.36 | sancus | pretty unlikely |
| 07:08.38 | Adys | atm my old guild is also at its summit |
| 07:08.50 | sancus | my guild is one of the most hardcore horde guilds there are, and they're doing quite well |
| 07:08.55 | Zeal | i would suggest merely maining a guild of 30 players. |
| 07:08.57 | sancus | excited about the 25-mans |
| 07:09.02 | Zeal | so imo, it was jsut dropped dead weight |
| 07:09.11 | sancus | we also have too many people showing up for them |
| 07:09.13 | sancus | So if half the guild quit? |
| 07:09.15 | Zeal | they've always had to split into teams, so i see no reason why to change it. |
| 07:09.17 | Adys | Extremely hardcore guilds with good reputation wont have problems |
| 07:09.17 | sancus | well that'd actually be good :P |
| 07:09.21 | Adys | because they have good reputation |
| 07:09.27 | Adys | and they can get players easily |
| 07:09.33 | Adys | good players, that is |
| 07:09.37 | Adys | but you see |
| 07:09.40 | sancus | no guild is splitting into teams for 25-mans |
| 07:09.47 | Adys | for 25mans no |
| 07:09.52 | Adys | which is worse :) |
| 07:09.52 | sancus | for kara sure |
| 07:09.53 | Adys | look |
| 07:09.54 | sancus | but kara is temporary |
| 07:10.09 | Adys | Karazhan they split, its the preparing ground for clans in the guild to form up |
| 07:10.16 | Zeal | they used to have to split for 20 mans, i don't see how naything new make it more detrimental. |
| 07:10.20 | Adys | when the 25mans will come up, the ones without attunements |
| 07:10.25 | sancus | yea its basically the same as 20 mans |
| 07:10.29 | Zeal | *anything new makes |
| 07:10.31 | Adys | no, 20 mans were optionnal |
| 07:10.40 | Adys | here, every instance is important |
| 07:10.43 | Zeal | not sanely so. |
| 07:10.43 | sancus | kara is pretty frickin optional |
| 07:10.44 | Adys | because of attunements |
| 07:10.49 | Adys | No sancus |
| 07:10.51 | Adys | attunements |
| 07:10.57 | sancus | ??? |
| 07:11.03 | sancus | attunements are irrelevant dude |
| 07:11.05 | Zeal | i wouldn't want to skip AQ20 or ZG |
| 07:11.09 | sancus | you don't have to do an instance more than once to get attuned |
| 07:11.24 | sancus | if you're in a hardcore guild |
| 07:11.26 | Adys | doesnt make it any less relevant, you still need to do it once |
| 07:11.27 | sancus | and you NEVER do kara |
| 07:11.30 | sancus | I mean wtf |
| 07:11.32 | sancus | why are you in that guild |
| 07:11.39 | Adys | not the point |
| 07:11.46 | Adys | karazhan will prepare the terrain for clans to form up |
| 07:11.53 | Zeal | he's in casual aren't you? :s |
| 07:11.58 | sancus | I dont really think you understand hardcore guilds |
| 07:12.10 | Adys | Ive been in hardcore guilds for a year and half |
| 07:12.17 | sancus | they don't say "ok, guys, go split up and run kara! if you aren't attuned, you're fucked!" |
| 07:12.18 | Adys | if i quitted them its because there were no future for them |
| 07:12.24 | Zeal | ancient of arcane.. |
| 07:12.25 | Zeal | pwn |
| 07:12.31 | sancus | they organize the guild into teams specifically so that all of them get attuned and all of them get what they need |
| 07:12.36 | sancus | and if necessary, rotate people into the raids from week to week |
| 07:12.40 | Adys | they still want the loot |
| 07:12.49 | Adys | theres no other way to get loot at this point |
| 07:12.59 | sancus | kara loot is unnecessary |
| 07:13.00 | Adys | they are worse than steamvault/shadowlab loot? they dont care, its epic |
| 07:13.01 | Adys | I know |
| 07:13.06 | sancus | most of it sucks dick, and 90% of it is surpassed by blues |
| 07:13.09 | sancus | or crafted gear |
| 07:13.15 | Adys | its EPIC sancus |
| 07:13.20 | Adys | dont care if its better |
| 07:13.21 | Zeal | oo clefthooves :) |
| 07:13.21 | Adys | ITS PURPLE! |
| 07:13.22 | sancus | ????? |
| 07:13.24 | sancus | ok |
| 07:13.33 | Adys | thats not what i say |
| 07:13.35 | sancus | I guess you're talking about _FUCKING STUPID_ hardcore guilds |
| 07:13.42 | sancus | in which case, sure, maybe they'll quit |
| 07:13.43 | sancus | who cares? :P |
| 07:13.44 | Adys | of fucking stupid hardcore players |
| 07:13.51 | Zeal | content appeal > sense in crap guilds |
| 07:13.53 | Adys | and theres more than you think |
| 07:13.54 | sancus | I dont care about what stupid people do |
| 07:14.00 | Zeal | hardcore guils that last have sense.. |
| 07:14.11 | Zeal | *guilds |
| 07:14.11 | Adys | and when the 25 mans without attunements will come up, there will be 5, 6,7 people left behind because its full |
| 07:14.17 | sancus | in my experience, most hardcore guilds are smarter about the "PURPLES ARE BEST" shit than casuals |
| 07:14.20 | Adys | and the real loot will drop for others and not the ones outside |
| 07:14.27 | sancus | because they actually take the time to analyze the game more |
| 07:14.37 | Adys | you wish |
| 07:14.46 | Adys | you see the people that actually talk in your guild |
| 07:14.46 | sancus | I said in my experience |
| 07:14.51 | Adys | in mine too |
| 07:14.55 | sancus | keep in mind that that my experience is only the best of the best |
| 07:15.01 | Zeal | i'm sure hardcore guilds get sick of being lumped in with the wannabe hardcore guild mentality of "oo shiney and purple, gief now!" |
| 07:15.05 | Adys | of course you see the 10, 15, 20 even people who actually talk |
| 07:15.08 | Adys | and sure its a lot |
| 07:15.19 | Adys | but what about the other quiet guys |
| 07:15.23 | Adys | who are just here |
| 07:15.28 | sancus | ??? |
| 07:15.30 | Adys | following the guild, thinking their own way |
| 07:15.38 | Adys | quit when theres drama |
| 07:15.40 | sancus | they are often more intelligent than the loudmouths :p |
| 07:15.47 | sancus | there isn't any drama in my guild |
| 07:15.47 | Zeal | this is why i hate the size of raids and large guilds.. |
| 07:15.59 | sancus | (quite unusual, that, though) |
| 07:16.04 | Adys | zeal explain me why you hate everything you hate :P |
| 07:16.09 | Zeal | i don't trust the mentality of that people that i don't know well enough that their name and class >_> |
| 07:16.17 | sancus | eh |
| 07:16.18 | Zeal | *-that |
| 07:16.24 | sancus | if you can't know 40 people well enough, whats wrong with you? :P |
| 07:16.29 | sancus | raid guilds aren't necessarily huge |
| 07:16.30 | Zeal | *that many people |
| 07:16.39 | Zeal | 40 people? |
| 07:16.42 | sancus | there's only 40 people active in my guild these days |
| 07:16.57 | Adys | big enough to leave people behind in 25 mans |
| 07:17.03 | sancus | of course, so? |
| 07:17.06 | Adys | and not big enough to fit everyone into a second team |
| 07:17.10 | Adys | so there will be a few leftovers |
| 07:17.12 | sancus | right, which is what you want |
| 07:17.13 | Adys | that will whine |
| 07:17.15 | sancus | wrong |
| 07:17.17 | Adys | that will leave |
| 07:17.20 | sancus | all good raiding guilds need leftovers |
| 07:17.22 | sancus | no they don't leave |
| 07:17.26 | sancus | where would they go? |
| 07:17.31 | sancus | there are no better horde raiding guilds than us |
| 07:17.37 | Adys | and? |
| 07:17.37 | Zeal | dude the most friends i've had i'd trust to behave and get the job done for the good of the guild and not bicker, be selfish or fuck about, is 3. |
| 07:17.40 | Adys | same for my old guild |
| 07:17.52 | sancus | If you don't HAVE people sitting on the bench |
| 07:17.55 | Adys | they can switch server if they care enough about it |
| 07:17.58 | sancus | who do you sub in when you need certain classes for raids? |
| 07:18.03 | Adys | or they can join the newer guilds |
| 07:18.07 | sancus | raid guilds are like a sports team |
| 07:18.10 | sancus | you need people on the bench |
| 07:18.14 | Zeal | in my experience, most people are immature or idiots. |
| 07:18.16 | Adys | forming up because 4 other hardcore guilds on your server got the exact same problem as you |
| 07:18.24 | sancus | erm |
| 07:18.31 | sancus | I said there are no better horde raiding guilds than us |
| 07:18.34 | sancus | I didn't mean "on our server" |
| 07:18.38 | sancus | I meant there's none in north america |
| 07:18.43 | Adys | And? |
| 07:18.54 | sancus | so that means there's really nowhere else to go |
| 07:18.56 | sancus | if you want to raid |
| 07:19.06 | sancus | at least no better choice |
| 07:19.06 | Adys | if you want to raid you dont have to be in the best guild dude |
| 07:19.16 | sancus | If you are hardcore, you certainly do |
| 07:19.18 | Adys | if you got a very good reputation im glad for you, you'll get these guys replaced |
| 07:19.21 | sancus | because you want to be at the highest level of progression you can |
| 07:19.29 | sancus | If you don't want to be at the highest level of progression |
| 07:19.32 | sancus | you aren't in such a guild in the first place |
| 07:19.42 | sancus | going to a guild that is behind yours or not as good |
| 07:19.47 | sancus | is shitty to such a player |
| 07:19.57 | Adys | Its what I did though |
| 07:20.06 | Adys | Ive been in two very hardcore guilds and one casual |
| 07:20.12 | sancus | Ever think maybe you didn't belong in hardcore guilds in the first place? :P |
| 07:20.25 | Adys | I can ensure you its not the case |
| 07:20.49 | sancus | I still dont understand your argument |
| 07:20.53 | sancus | that hardcore guilds will quit |
| 07:20.57 | sancus | because pepole don't get raid spots?? |
| 07:21.02 | sancus | they didn't get raid spots pre-bc either... |
| 07:21.05 | Adys | I am a hardcore player, been raiding every day of the week for two years almost. 6 days a week with guild and a last day raidleading a server MC Pug |
| 07:21.20 | sancus | I don't see what has changed in BC |
| 07:21.28 | Adys | Look |
| 07:21.30 | sancus | if anything, BC is a lot harder than pre-bc |
| 07:21.35 | *** join/#wowwiki _dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-23-4.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:21.40 | Adys | No not really |
| 07:21.42 | sancus | yeah really |
| 07:21.46 | sancus | because to raid the higher level raids |
| 07:21.48 | sancus | you dont need to do kara |
| 07:21.48 | Adys | these guilds have two options |
| 07:21.52 | sancus | you need to do fucking heroic 5-mans |
| 07:21.57 | sancus | and the heroic 5-mans are extremely, extremely difficult |
| 07:22.00 | sancus | especially shattered halls |
| 07:22.09 | sancus | done the 50 minute or whatever run of that? that's tough shit |
| 07:22.11 | Adys | I know, but that will get done in time |
| 07:22.33 | sancus | that's why I say it's harder than pre-bc |
| 07:22.35 | Adys | hardcore guilds wont loose many players at these heroics |
| 07:22.36 | sancus | pre-bc you just walked into the instance |
| 07:22.39 | sancus | ro did a trivial keying quest |
| 07:22.46 | sancus | no you dont understand |
| 07:22.50 | sancus | harder is a GOOD THING |
| 07:22.57 | sancus | hardcore guilds want everything to be as hard as humanly possible |
| 07:22.58 | Adys | I know, on the long run it is |
| 07:23.07 | sancus | the harder it is, the more fun they'll have |
| 07:23.14 | Adys | but its not that hard, it will get done in time |
| 07:23.19 | Adys | thats not the point anyways |
| 07:23.24 | sancus | pre-bc wasn't hard either |
| 07:23.32 | sancus | I guess I just don't see |
| 07:23.34 | Adys | the thing is |
| 07:23.38 | sancus | the magic thing that has changed between BC and WoW |
| 07:23.42 | Adys | casual guilds will loose players at these heroics |
| 07:23.53 | Adys | because its too hard to actually afford having a crappy player in your team |
| 07:23.59 | sancus | yea probably |
| 07:24.03 | Adys | and if someone sucks this person will never get a group finishing it |
| 07:24.05 | sancus | actually most raid guilds will lose crappy players in the heroics also |
| 07:24.10 | sancus | because the heroics are harder than most raid guilds can do |
| 07:24.20 | Adys | raid guilds, yes |
| 07:24.28 | Adys | but hardcore raiding guilds wont loose enough of them |
| 07:24.38 | sancus | they'll lose the few hanging on retards |
| 07:24.43 | sancus | enough to make them a better guild |
| 07:24.51 | Adys | yes, but thats not enough to make them a 25 man guild |
| 07:25.00 | sancus | oh I see |
| 07:25.02 | Adys | there will be 5-6 people that are still outside the core of the guild |
| 07:25.07 | sancus | so |
| 07:25.13 | sancus | what exactly makes you think that a guild will die |
| 07:25.15 | Adys | these people will either create drama in the guild |
| 07:25.21 | sancus | rather than just dropping enough people that they can do 25-mans happily? |
| 07:25.27 | Adys | leave the guild and bring friends, leaving the guild with LESS than 25 man core |
| 07:25.49 | Adys | or simply form up something new |
| 07:25.57 | Adys | and there there will be again friends coming up |
| 07:26.05 | sancus | I dont really think so |
| 07:26.23 | Adys | either way, if you're a hardcore guild and survive then either you have a very good reputation on your continent and get cross realmers |
| 07:26.28 | sancus | I don't think dropping people for 25mans is going to create so much drama that it brings down a significant percentage of guilds |
| 07:26.38 | Adys | either you are VERY lucky and have the right set of people etc |
| 07:26.45 | Adys | or you die. |
| 07:26.54 | sancus | but you don't die |
| 07:26.58 | sancus | those players still WANT TO RAID |
| 07:26.59 | Adys | youll see |
| 07:27.02 | sancus | even if the guild dissolves |
| 07:27.06 | sancus | they'll just form another hardcore guild |
| 07:27.06 | Adys | they want epics |
| 07:27.08 | sancus | with the right number |
| 07:27.13 | Adys | some want to raid, some just want epics |
| 07:27.20 | Adys | im of the ones who want to raid |
| 07:27.21 | sancus | that isn't guild death, it's merely turnover |
| 07:27.25 | Adys | thats why I joined a casual guild. |
| 07:27.39 | sancus | At the end of the day after BC |
| 07:27.49 | sancus | there will be more hardcore guilds with less people in them than before, that's all |
| 07:27.55 | sancus | a lot of them may not be the ones that existed before BC |
| 07:27.57 | sancus | but they'll be there |
| 07:28.07 | sancus | but honestly |
| 07:28.13 | sancus | only really good guilds stick together for years, anyhow :P |
| 07:28.22 | sancus | it's not really a question of your reputation to the rest of the world |
| 07:28.35 | sancus | it's a question of your guild's internal culture and stick-to-itiveness |
| 07:28.46 | sancus | guilds that form in wow tend to implode |
| 07:28.56 | sancus | guilds that were together for multiple games will be fine |
| 07:29.03 | sancus | hell |
| 07:29.11 | Adys | agree on that :) |
| 07:29.14 | sancus | you know how many hardcore guilds from Burning Legion still exist with the same name? |
| 07:29.18 | sancus | from release day? |
| 07:29.21 | sancus | 2. |
| 07:29.27 | sancus | there were like fucking 20 of them |
| 07:29.38 | sancus | they all churned back and forth with different names and all sorts of crap like that over the intervening 2 years |
| 07:29.47 | sancus | but there were still just as many, they just all quit and rejoined someone else etc etc |
| 07:29.50 | sancus | that's entirely normal :P |
| 07:33.20 | Zeal | "turn over" is needed to better a guild |
| 07:33.31 | Zeal | it turns over for a reason, because it needs to be better. |
| 07:33.43 | Zeal | *to make a better guild |
| 07:35.07 | Zeal | the amount of turn over in wow is what bothers me, and it's why i think smaller guilds are a better option to make sure the guild doesn't have to go through it as often. |
| 07:35.17 | Zeal | *guild's |
| 07:35.20 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 07:35.27 | Zeal | **guilds |
| 07:35.53 | Montagg | You guys are still talking about this? |
| 07:35.55 | Zeal | as you said, if you come from another game, already have that established, then theres no issue. but most of the time that isn't the case. |
| 07:35.57 | Adys | =) |
| 07:35.59 | Zeal | rofl Montagg |
| 07:36.09 | Montagg | The Senate gives up faster. |
| 07:36.39 | Zeal | i've been in guilds with player's i wouldn't trust as far as i could throw them.. |
| 07:36.52 | Zeal | and it's more often the case. |
| 07:37.40 | Adys | lol montag |
| 07:37.42 | Zeal | with a smaller guild, progressing from 5-25 and beyond i feel you can lay better ground work to ensure there is no turn over. |
| 07:37.49 | Adys | brb |
| 07:39.01 | Zeal | wtf :s |
| 07:39.06 | Zeal | no vashj model.. |
| 07:39.20 | Adys | bet you its just a naga scaled to 5.0 |
| 07:40.30 | Zeal | lol |
| 07:40.37 | Zeal | well no.. she has snakes on her head |
| 07:41.22 | Zeal | aka looks cool |
| 07:41.39 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 07:41.47 | Zeal | miev's model looks crappy imo, hell she doesn't even have a fan of knives animation :( |
| 07:44.08 | Zeal | the shadowmoon skybox is so much win.. |
| 08:03.17 | Adys | List of things Zeal likes: |
| 08:03.21 | Adys | -Shadowmoon skybox |
| 08:03.30 | Adys | - Hrmmm... |
| 08:03.41 | Zeal | feta cheese |
| 08:03.45 | Adys | aha |
| 08:03.51 | Adys | I like that too! |
| 08:03.55 | Adys | thats a good thing btw |
| 08:03.56 | Zeal | creamy and mild cheeder cheese |
| 08:03.58 | Zeal | lol |
| 08:04.01 | Adys | since I dont like the shadowmoon skybox |
| 08:04.05 | Zeal | rofl |
| 08:04.11 | Adys | I thought you were chasing me or whatever |
| 08:05.43 | Zeal | O_o |
| 08:06.14 | Zeal | name wowmapview.. |
| 08:06.16 | Zeal | crashed :( |
| 08:06.28 | Adys | eh? |
| 08:06.33 | Zeal | both WMVs are having texture corruption issues : / |
| 08:06.43 | Zeal | and both still buggy |
| 08:06.45 | Zeal | but meh |
| 08:06.52 | Zeal | alteast they work well enough now |
| 08:06.58 | Adys | what was their website? |
| 08:07.09 | Adys | www.wowmodelview.org or something |
| 08:07.31 | Zeal | indeed |
| 08:07.32 | Adys | http://www.wowmodelviewer.org/ |
| 08:07.33 | Adys | there |
| 08:07.35 | Adys | sorry |
| 08:08.02 | Adys | theres a new model viewer from yesterday oO |
| 08:08.42 | Zeal | aye, that's the one i was using |
| 08:11.30 | Zeal | er.. "A creature that looks exactly like C'thun has been seen in Shadowmoon Valley" huh? |
| 08:11.45 | Adys | oh yeah Ive seen that too |
| 08:11.58 | Adys | its i believe northeast of wildhammer stronghold |
| 08:12.11 | Adys | half in the lava, with what i believe is an orc channeling a spell on it |
| 08:12.35 | Zeal | got a link? :S |
| 08:12.35 | Adys | looks like cthuns body, in very purplish and transparent |
| 08:12.44 | Adys | sorry didnt think about making a screenshot |
| 08:12.49 | Adys | i couldnt target it either |
| 08:12.58 | Adys | its around wildhammer stronghold, half in green lava |
| 08:13.13 | Zeal | yeah.. i'm not even 60 :P |
| 08:13.18 | Zeal | so not helpful, lol |
| 08:13.25 | Adys | >< |
| 08:13.49 | Zeal | well there's no new skin for C'Thun |
| 08:13.58 | Zeal | so.. i'm very confused |
| 08:14.10 | Adys | i think its the kind of purple you get when you go in shadowform |
| 08:14.16 | Adys | i dont thinktheres the need for a new skin |
| 08:14.24 | Adys | see what i mean? |
| 08:14.41 | Zeal | i see |
| 08:15.17 | Zeal | "In Shadow Moon valley the bird people are trying to summon C'thun." |
| 08:15.23 | Zeal | only info i've found so far.. |
| 08:26.50 | Zeal | http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=10808 |
| 08:28.32 | Zeal | Nothing to do with C'Thun |
| 08:28.43 | Zeal | and that screenshot doesn't show it : / |
| 08:29.33 | Zeal | http://www.goblinworkshop.com/beta-creatures/summoned-old-god.html |
| 08:30.10 | Zeal | definitely an old god then.. |
| 08:44.55 | *** part/#wowwiki pacroon (n=pacroon@pdpc/supporter/active/pacroon) |
| 08:44.55 | *** join/#wowwiki pacroon (n=pacroon@pdpc/supporter/active/pacroon) |
| 08:44.59 | *** part/#wowwiki pacroon (n=pacroon@pdpc/supporter/active/pacroon) |
| 08:45.38 | Adys | bye, hi, bye |
| 08:49.14 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Ruby_Slippers&rcid=409412 |
| 08:49.17 | Adys | lol what the hell? |
| 08:49.39 | Zeal | Wizard of Oz ofc |
| 08:51.14 | Adys | and instant cast |
| 08:51.18 | Adys | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28585#z0z |
| 08:51.47 | Adys | I want that thing! |
| 08:52.01 | Adys | and pretty sweet stats too |
| 08:53.10 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 09:00.02 | *** join/#wowwiki kazurk (n=kas@ip70-174-75-117.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 09:00.36 | *** join/#wowwiki blas (n=blas@dsl195-38-112-247.pool.tvnet.hu) |
| 09:01.17 | blas | hi |
| 09:02.57 | Zeal | lo blas |
| 09:03.18 | Zeal | oh, its another hs |
| 09:03.19 | Zeal | nice |
| 09:03.28 | Adys | hey blas |
| 09:03.29 | Zeal | same timer/location though? : / |
| 09:03.29 | Adys | aye |
| 09:03.32 | Adys | Yes |
| 09:03.34 | Adys | but instant cast |
| 09:03.39 | Zeal | ah |
| 09:03.43 | Adys | and since the HS is usable in combat |
| 09:03.46 | Adys | i wonder if these are |
| 09:03.53 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:10.42 | Zeal | adys, wtf? |
| 09:10.58 | Adys | Im reworking the Hearthstone page |
| 09:11.06 | Adys | and cant use tooltip yet with it |
| 09:11.12 | Zeal | why not? |
| 09:11.21 | Adys | Because Im using effect links :P |
| 09:11.32 | Zeal | you can use that with it.. |
| 09:11.36 | Zeal | i told you that |
| 09:11.40 | Adys | how? |
| 09:12.06 | Zeal | wtf did i rename it to? :S {{effect2}} will redirect |
| 09:12.31 | Adys | spellink |
| 09:12.45 | Zeal | there ya go |
| 09:12.45 | Adys | Template:Spelllink |
| 09:12.50 | Zeal | use that |
| 09:13.13 | Adys | So I put effect={{spellink|123|Use}} ? |
| 09:13.58 | Zeal | er.. i made changes.. |
| 09:14.20 | Zeal | effect=|elink={{spellink|123|Use}} |
| 09:14.24 | Zeal | that should be it |
| 09:14.34 | Adys | oO |
| 09:14.41 | Adys | nvm Ill just do it later today |
| 09:14.42 | Zeal | you can't fun an if check on a para that has a value containing equals |
| 09:14.51 | Zeal | well i can do it now.. lol |
| 09:15.10 | Adys | Just leave me these two pages for now :P |
| 09:15.25 | Zeal | two?! :o |
| 09:15.31 | Adys | ruby slippers |
| 09:15.33 | Zeal | lol but why? |
| 09:15.48 | Adys | I was thinking of a different boilerplate for item articles |
| 09:16.01 | Adys | Which would consist in putting the tooltip at the left |
| 09:16.39 | Adys | Ill just do a quick paint crap or whatever sec |
| 09:16.48 | Zeal | well that can be done |
| 09:16.51 | Zeal | float=left |
| 09:16.52 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:17.15 | Zeal | well i've made the change, can i hit save? ;) |
| 09:17.22 | Adys | Not yet :P |
| 09:18.03 | Zeal | pfft |
| 09:18.04 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:18.06 | Adys | go ahead, mind you there will be an edit conflict |
| 09:18.48 | Adys | In fact |
| 09:18.56 | Adys | I was thinking of making two tooltips |
| 09:19.01 | Zeal | Source? |
| 09:19.03 | Adys | it would still be one template |
| 09:19.42 | Adys | but it would be such as on the left you have the item level, cost, whatever needed there |
| 09:19.51 | Adys | and on the right the tooltip |
| 09:20.14 | Zeal | waste of space imo |
| 09:20.33 | Adys | Not really, look at the Hearthstone page at the moment |
| 09:20.42 | Adys | we got the whole top of the page empty |
| 09:20.47 | Adys | And thats annoying me =) |
| 09:20.47 | Zeal | er.. i dropped the source header. section nothing to do with source :s |
| 09:21.01 | Zeal | well yeah |
| 09:21.06 | Adys | see thats why i didnt want you to edit it :P |
| 09:21.11 | Zeal | but the tooltip shouldn't fill horizontal space |
| 09:21.26 | Adys | the tooltip can only be smaller than the item |
| 09:21.26 | Zeal | well dude |
| 09:21.32 | Zeal | work on it in your user space :P |
| 09:21.47 | Zeal | copy and paste job, lol |
| 09:21.47 | Adys | I suck with graphical templates n shit |
| 09:22.14 | Zeal | my "boilerplate" was designed to deal with all these empty space issues |
| 09:22.21 | Zeal | cos they pissed me off too |
| 09:22.34 | Zeal | especially with the infoboxs, tooltips and tocs. |
| 09:22.48 | Zeal | oh and non-contextual images |
| 09:23.13 | Adys | I was thinking.. |
| 09:23.32 | Adys | Maybe we could put the tooltip on the left |
| 09:23.43 | Adys | the infobox on the right |
| 09:23.49 | Adys | and up it above the Item name line |
| 09:24.15 | Zeal | god no x_X; |
| 09:24.21 | Adys | Sec, Ill show you |
| 09:24.27 | Zeal | i know what you mean |
| 09:24.33 | Zeal | but is empty horizontal space |
| 09:24.45 | Adys | Im not so sure |
| 09:24.47 | Zeal | it will only be right at one resolution |
| 09:24.58 | Adys | Look at wowhead |
| 09:25.12 | Adys | they got a pretty sweet design |
| 09:25.22 | Adys | the same problem there with empty space but, if you remove the screenshot |
| 09:25.25 | Adys | and put text on the left.. |
| 09:25.49 | Zeal | wowhead is fixed width, the wiki is not |
| 09:25.50 | Adys | I dont know, thinking |
| 09:26.08 | Adys | true |
| 09:26.37 | Zeal | the wiki's content will either overflow at low resoltuons, or leave empty space at large resolutions when you try to use something fixed width in it. |
| 09:26.49 | Zeal | fluid design 101 :P |
| 09:27.16 | Zeal | the wiki's css alredy breaks a golden rule.. no min-width |
| 09:27.30 | Zeal | so at low resolutions, everything will overflow. |
| 09:27.56 | Adys | we can fix that eventually |
| 09:28.49 | Zeal | which is why for now, all my boilerplates for pages are designed as they are, to create a min-width space with wiki styling, so even when it overflows, it doesn't dmg the content the the container to the page emulates the wiki's bg to make the overflow less obvious or damaging. |
| 09:29.11 | Adys | did you just edit {{tooltip}}? |
| 09:29.12 | Zeal | *and the |
| 09:29.16 | Zeal | nope |
| 09:29.19 | Adys | oO |
| 09:29.28 | Zeal | what's up? :s |
| 09:29.41 | Zeal | it's been protected iirc :s |
| 09:29.45 | Zeal | or was that loot.. |
| 09:29.56 | Zeal | one of them |
| 09:31.07 | Adys | loot was |
| 09:31.13 | Adys | Im having an odd issue, but nvm |
| 09:31.19 | Adys | how do you add a cost with tooltip? |
| 09:31.29 | Adys | I just wanna make an example thing |
| 09:31.30 | Zeal | nah, do explain, probably a css issue though :P |
| 09:31.39 | Adys | no, it doesnt show ilvl, cast time etc |
| 09:31.42 | Zeal | {{cost}} |
| 09:31.45 | Adys | ill show you in a sec |
| 09:31.48 | Adys | ok |
| 09:31.52 | Zeal | oh |
| 09:31.52 | Adys | and buying price? |
| 09:31.56 | Zeal | i should have said |
| 09:32.55 | Zeal | use {{User:Zeal/Sandbox/Templates/Tooltip}} instead of tooltip when doing development. {{tooltip}} drops non-default and shrinks when used on pages other than where it belongs ;) |
| 09:33.10 | Zeal | er.. lowercase t on tooltip |
| 09:33.12 | Adys | ok |
| 09:33.17 | Zeal | and both prices use cost |
| 09:33.24 | Zeal | sell and vendor |
| 09:33.46 | Adys | How do I add both? |
| 09:33.55 | Adys | sell= and buy=? |
| 09:34.41 | Adys | and btw user:Zeal/Sandbox/Templates/Tooltip doesnt exist :p |
| 09:35.19 | Adys | tooltip does |
| 09:35.22 | Adys | Tooltip doesnt |
| 09:35.23 | Adys | nvm >< |
| 09:35.28 | Zeal | rofl |
| 09:35.34 | Zeal | and sell= vendor= |
| 09:35.41 | Adys | ah k |
| 09:35.49 | Adys | make it buy= next time ;P |
| 09:36.00 | Zeal | nah, prefer the auctioneer naming :P |
| 09:36.36 | Zeal | but yours would be mroe accurate tbh |
| 09:36.37 | Adys | tsk |
| 09:36.43 | Adys | Aha! |
| 09:37.01 | Adys | infobot, cookies for zeal! |
| 09:37.09 | infobot | ACTION hands for zeal! a nice, steaming chocolate chip cookie, hot from the oven |
| 09:37.09 | Zeal | merely personal preference of what i'm used to |
| 09:37.16 | Adys | mmm |
| 09:37.22 | Zeal | welcome to change it, just prepare for reprocussions until a bot can fix :P |
| 09:37.31 | Adys | yea yea |
| 09:37.33 | Zeal | hands for? lol |
| 09:37.43 | Adys | infobot, grammar? |
| 09:37.44 | infobot | rumour has it, grammar is a system of pitfalls thoughtfully prepared for the feet for the self-made man, along the path by which he advances to distinction. |
| 09:37.51 | Adys | noob |
| 09:38.00 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:39.23 | Zeal | tooltip honestly is the most customizable template on the wiki, not the most complex in terms of conditionals though, merley the most conditions. |
| 09:39.36 | Adys | ok here is the thing |
| 09:39.49 | Adys | and mind you i suck with all that so ignore the crappy formatting |
| 09:39.50 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Dev |
| 09:40.52 | Zeal | yeah, wasted horizontal space :p |
| 09:40.58 | Zeal | prefer mine, lol |
| 09:42.11 | sancus | shouldn't call required level "item level" |
| 09:42.20 | sancus | should call it required level |
| 09:42.32 | Adys | its the Item Level |
| 09:42.35 | Adys | not the req lvl :p |
| 09:42.40 | sancus | well then it links to the wrong thing :P |
| 09:42.49 | Adys | blame zeal >< |
| 09:43.03 | Zeal | links to the right thing |
| 09:43.03 | sancus | well its gone now :P |
| 09:43.10 | Adys | no :p |
| 09:43.16 | Zeal | its the article thats in the wrong place |
| 09:43.17 | sancus | It linked to the 'this is the required level for this item' |
| 09:43.20 | Zeal | yeah |
| 09:43.23 | Zeal | article is wrong |
| 09:43.35 | sancus | ok then |
| 09:43.51 | Adys | lol |
| 09:43.54 | Zeal | hell i didn't evne know the article existed. i just named the links to what the articles should be called imo. |
| 09:44.06 | sancus | its your fault anyway |
| 09:44.40 | Zeal | Level (Item) to me = article about the level of items. not the level requirement of items :P |
| 09:45.05 | Kirkburn|afk | Yes, that is an incorrect name |
| 09:45.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Level (item) should be about the item level |
| 09:45.38 | Adys | incorrect article |
| 09:45.39 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:45.42 | Adys | it is about the item level |
| 09:45.44 | Zeal | he has returned :P |
| 09:45.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Well yes |
| 09:45.47 | Adys | but |
| 09:45.49 | Adys | nevermind lol |
| 09:45.56 | Zeal | family guy got boring? :p |
| 09:46.02 | Kirkburn|afk | What should level requirement be? |
| 09:46.13 | Adys | Imo |
| 09:46.13 | sancus | Requirement (item), maybe |
| 09:46.13 | Kirkburn|afk | I downloaded 10 episodes, that was enough for one morning :P |
| 09:46.31 | sancus | or Level Requirement (item) |
| 09:46.32 | Adys | [[Item Level (Requirement)]] and [[Item Level]] |
| 09:46.35 | Adys | thats my opinion |
| 09:46.37 | sancus | sure |
| 09:46.38 | Zeal | Requirement (Item, Level) |
| 09:46.39 | sancus | w/e |
| 09:46.55 | Kirkburn|afk | As long as it's sensible :) |
| 09:47.06 | Zeal | Requirement (Item, Faction) and so on |
| 09:47.09 | Adys | Anyone has any idea what we could put into the empty horizontal text?http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Dev |
| 09:47.13 | Adys | space* |
| 09:47.33 | Zeal | nothing, as if you put anything there, it will overflow on lower resolutions ;) |
| 09:47.53 | Kirkburn|afk | It's weird the change in ilevels from Azeroth to Outland - originally item levels didn't mean much and were around the same level as the req level, nowadays you'll be in ilvl 100 by 70 |
| 09:48.15 | Zeal | theres like ilvl 80 on 60 items :s |
| 09:48.18 | Zeal | iirc |
| 09:48.23 | Kirkburn|afk | Only on the later stuff |
| 09:48.43 | Zeal | i never really understood their concept behind item levels |
| 09:48.47 | Kirkburn|afk | The original stuff you got at level 60 didn't have crazy item levels |
| 09:49.04 | Kirkburn|afk | Basically it's now better defined points system |
| 09:49.19 | Kirkburn|afk | item levels aren't tied to char level |
| 09:49.41 | Kirkburn|afk | The item level defines the amount of stats the item can have |
| 09:49.53 | Zeal | green seems to be +5 to lvlreq |
| 09:49.57 | Kirkburn|afk | The amount of stats per level increases for blue and purples |
| 09:50.06 | Zeal | rare too.. |
| 09:50.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Yeah |
| 09:50.18 | Zeal | hm.. epic too :s |
| 09:50.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Wait, didn't I just say that? |
| 09:50.57 | Kirkburn|afk | So an ilvl 70 purple may be equivalent to an ilvl 110 green, or suchlike |
| 09:51.20 | Adys | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BpPahqltkc |
| 09:51.21 | Adys | wth? |
| 09:51.23 | Zeal | yeah, why is after 60 +10 and beyond :S |
| 09:51.26 | Zeal | makes no sense |
| 09:51.48 | Zeal | epic lvlreq 70 = ilvl100 :S |
| 09:52.08 | sancus | ??? |
| 09:52.13 | Zeal | a 60 @ 66 |
| 09:52.15 | sancus | level req has absolutely 0 to do with itemlevel |
| 09:52.21 | sancus | they're not related at all |
| 09:52.26 | Zeal | 60 @ 72.. |
| 09:52.28 | Zeal | no sense |
| 09:52.50 | sancus | There's not going to be sense in two completely unrelated numbers :P |
| 09:52.52 | Zeal | they should be obtain + fixed rarity value imo |
| 09:53.10 | sancus | do you even know anything about the itemlevel system at all |
| 09:53.23 | Zeal | no |
| 09:53.28 | Kirkburn|afk | It goes above 70 because the points system isn't tied to char level at all |
| 09:53.30 | Zeal | made that clear |
| 09:53.38 | Kirkburn|afk | :) |
| 09:53.45 | sancus | it's only called "level" due to coincidence |
| 09:54.01 | sancus | it's just a valuation system for deciding how many stats should go on an item |
| 09:54.20 | Zeal | i didn't say it is, it should be tied to level however + a fixed value increase based on rarity (as rarity determined stat allocation for the most part) |
| 09:54.20 | sancus | the pair of quality+itemlevel defines "how good" the item is |
| 09:54.27 | sancus | um why |
| 09:54.28 | Kirkburn|afk | It would also make progession of items after the level cap extremely confusing if it was tied to char level |
| 09:54.30 | sancus | not all epics are equal |
| 09:54.32 | sancus | not all epics SHOULD BE equal |
| 09:54.33 | Adys | spam.. |
| 09:54.45 | sancus | epics you get from MC are much weaker than epics you get from Naxxramas |
| 09:54.48 | sancus | that's intended and the way it should be |
| 09:54.50 | Zeal | imo they should, but thats why there is no matching ofc |
| 09:55.07 | Zeal | well yes, that's because end-game concept is flawed anyways |
| 09:55.09 | sancus | i'm glad that you think you should have opinions on a system you know nothing about |
| 09:55.28 | Kirkburn|afk | Just don't talk about raiding, just .... don't. |
| 09:55.30 | Zeal | well you just showed i do know everything you jsut said |
| 09:55.49 | Zeal | so thats not a valid comment to devalue my opinion |
| 09:55.59 | sancus | saying the 'end-game concept is flawed' is silly |
| 09:56.30 | sancus | it is flawed in that it's not very interesting |
| 09:56.31 | Adys | lol |
| 09:56.35 | Zeal | lol |
| 09:56.38 | sancus | but it has sold every major mmog on the market |
| 09:56.41 | sancus | since mmogs began |
| 09:56.41 | sancus | so... |
| 09:56.47 | sancus | pretty hard to say it's bad |
| 09:56.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Whatever or not you like it, it's what we have, and so the ilvl system is appropriate. However, of course, if WoW wasn't WoW, then we'd have a different system. |
| 09:57.13 | sancus | And obviously there's a few million people who disagree with me that it's not very interesting :) |
| 09:57.15 | Zeal | i think it's it's flawed from the concept of progression without character levelling from one rarity to another. |
| 09:57.24 | sancus | er why |
| 09:57.29 | Zeal | *from within the same rarirty |
| 09:57.31 | sancus | its just an alternate method of character progression |
| 09:57.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Well it was, originally |
| 09:57.33 | Zeal | my bad there |
| 09:57.35 | sancus | you don't need levelling to progress |
| 09:57.37 | sancus | why would you |
| 09:58.07 | Kirkburn|afk | There was such a large gap between people getting to 60 and the level cap being raised that you couldn't just stick with raising the rarity |
| 09:58.18 | Zeal | i'm saying progression beyond leveling should only be in the form of rarity, and no varience within a rarity. |
| 09:58.19 | Kirkburn|afk | Otherwise Naxx would have required artifacts! |
| 09:58.28 | sancus | why |
| 09:58.40 | Zeal | realize how much easier that would make things for players to understand what is better for them? |
| 09:58.42 | sancus | how is it better to have 50 different new forms of rarity as opposed to a couple with different levels of those forms? |
| 09:58.45 | sancus | um |
| 09:58.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Well people have the ability to read tooltips |
| 09:59.00 | sancus | the easier it is for players to understand what items are better for them |
| 09:59.00 | Zeal | i'm not saying there needs to be any new forms of rarity |
| 09:59.02 | sancus | the shittier the game is |
| 09:59.09 | Zeal | wtf |
| 09:59.12 | Zeal | not at all sancus |
| 09:59.14 | sancus | yes |
| 09:59.25 | Kirkburn|afk | And don't forget, people may just choose a higher ilevel even if it's not actually 'better' for them. It's better to hide that. |
| 09:59.26 | sancus | You're SUPPOSED to have to think about what item is best on your character, it shouldn't be blatantly obvious |
| 09:59.41 | Zeal | not across the same rarities |
| 09:59.43 | sancus | the less obvious it is, the more variations there are in gear builds and choices |
| 09:59.53 | sancus | rarities are an arbitrary nonsensical category |
| 09:59.59 | Zeal | ther e should be no need for another numbering system (which is not displayed to players i might add) |
| 10:00.00 | sancus | so you're not really making much sense |
| 10:00.10 | sancus | why not? |
| 10:00.11 | Zeal | they are not |
| 10:00.18 | sancus | the reason there IS another numbering system |
| 10:00.22 | sancus | is TO MAKE IT UNCLEAR TO THE PLAYERS WHAT IS BEST |
| 10:00.27 | Zeal | i'm making plenty of sense thanks, don't belitte my point iwth unsupported crap like that. |
| 10:00.28 | sancus | that lack of clarity is by design |
| 10:00.28 | sancus | dude |
| 10:00.36 | Zeal | no, it's not |
| 10:00.39 | sancus | yes it is |
| 10:00.44 | sancus | they want it to be confusing what is best for you to wear |
| 10:01.00 | Zeal | like saying false advertising or not giving people the spec of a computer when the buy it help them in any way.. |
| 10:01.05 | sancus | ??? |
| 10:01.16 | Kirkburn|afk | Please don't take this the wrong way Zeal, but how much end-game raiding do you do? |
| 10:01.17 | sancus | who says it's to help the player? |
| 10:01.25 | sancus | Why do you think the players should be helped? |
| 10:01.30 | sancus | the itemlevel system is not the way it is to make things clear |
| 10:01.42 | sancus | it's to make choosing your gear at least somewhat challenging |
| 10:02.00 | Zeal | determing which stats, of equal ilvl is best for you, makes sense, determining what stats, and how many of them are on it does not. |
| 10:02.07 | sancus | why not |
| 10:02.13 | sancus | you're going to need to provide a justification |
| 10:02.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Just saying look this is ilvl 108, and that's 109 - that's 1) boring and 2) has no relevance to the actual spread of stats on the item |
| 10:02.26 | Zeal | because there is nothing in place to give you an informared choice. |
| 10:02.37 | sancus | um |
| 10:02.39 | sancus | of course there's not |
| 10:02.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Your brain is for that |
| 10:02.44 | sancus | you can't make an informed choice without using your brain |
| 10:02.46 | Zeal | no Kirkburn|afk, thats why you're looking at what stats are best for you. |
| 10:03.04 | sancus | the reason itemlevel is not displayed to players is because it's not really relevant |
| 10:03.09 | Zeal | it is though |
| 10:03.12 | sancus | except when you're arguing with blizzard about their itemization |
| 10:03.13 | Kirkburn|afk | If you start removing all decisions from the player, what's the point!? |
| 10:03.13 | sancus | no it's not |
| 10:03.24 | sancus | There exist many, many items that are item level 100 |
| 10:03.26 | sancus | and epic |
| 10:03.30 | sancus | yet FAR BETTER than item level 120, and epic |
| 10:03.41 | sancus | or some such combination |
| 10:03.55 | Zeal | its not removing a decision, it's proving an informed choice. if you think that's not worthwhile, then we should not disaply ilvl on items on the wiki and nor should any db site. |
| 10:04.01 | Zeal | *providing |
| 10:04.03 | sancus | why not? |
| 10:04.07 | sancus | it's not about hiding information, dude |
| 10:04.10 | sancus | it's about increasing variation |
| 10:04.16 | sancus | again |
| 10:04.23 | sancus | you don't need to know or care about the item level to choose which item is best for your char |
| 10:04.25 | sancus | it's irrelevant |
| 10:04.36 | sancus | you don't see people putting item level into the spreadsheets they use to calculate dps or mana regen |
| 10:04.45 | Zeal | yes it is, the game is hiding information, and you have to rely on a third party, border-line against ToU, site to give you the facts. |
| 10:04.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Not true. |
| 10:04.55 | sancus | the game isn't hiding information |
| 10:05.01 | sancus | the UI is simply overly simplified |
| 10:05.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Addon can show ilvl using the API |
| 10:05.08 | sancus | ^^ |
| 10:05.13 | Zeal | ofc it can |
| 10:05.15 | sancus | The reason it's not displayed is not to hide it |
| 10:05.22 | sancus | It's because it's NOT RELEVANT to 99% of players |
| 10:05.25 | sancus | and needlessly confusing |
| 10:05.29 | Zeal | but the fact it doesn't shows they do not consider it neccesary, when it is |
| 10:05.47 | sancus | please explain your claim that it's necessary |
| 10:05.48 | Kirkburn|afk | No, it's hidden because they don't want to confuse most people |
| 10:06.01 | Zeal | scroll up sancus ¬_¬ |
| 10:06.03 | sancus | I never look at item level when I'm choosing what items are best for my mage? |
| 10:06.10 | Kirkburn|afk | The hardcore and raiders often enable it because they like to see more stuff and know what it means |
| 10:06.19 | Adys | No kirkburn |
| 10:06.22 | Zeal | yes.. it;s as confusing as showing level requirement on the item.. |
| 10:06.25 | Zeal | *it's |
| 10:06.28 | sancus | no it's not |
| 10:06.31 | Adys | lol |
| 10:06.43 | sancus | level requirement has a direct relation to a known variable on your character, your level |
| 10:06.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, no? They don't enable it, or they don't know what it means? Or they don't like to see more info? |
| 10:06.56 | sancus | item level means NOTHING to you if you don't know do a LOT of research into the game |
| 10:06.59 | Adys | they dont enable it because they dont care |
| 10:07.02 | sancus | and even then, it's ONLY useful for arguing with blizzard |
| 10:07.04 | sancus | that is the only purpose it has |
| 10:07.14 | Adys | if they want to compare items they compare the stats |
| 10:07.17 | Zeal | it means plenty |
| 10:07.22 | sancus | like what |
| 10:07.23 | Adys | item levels are often poor themselves |
| 10:07.23 | Zeal | already made that clear |
| 10:07.26 | sancus | no you haven't |
| 10:07.27 | Adys | SPAAAAM |
| 10:07.29 | Zeal | you said yourself wtf it means |
| 10:07.31 | sancus | you've merely said that it's clear over and over |
| 10:07.46 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Dev - any idea how to improve that? |
| 10:08.05 | Zeal | yes, becuase you;re not even reading what you're typing or what i've typed sancus, you've jsut glazed over it and it's clear, rofl. |
| 10:08.17 | sancus | I've read and written more stuff about itemization and analysis than any five people in this room |
| 10:08.25 | sancus | and I'm telling you no intelligent player needs that stat to choose what item is best |
| 10:08.26 | Kirkburn|afk | ilvl would not help most people make their decisions over an item because it's too complicated |
| 10:08.37 | Kirkburn|afk | (and misguiding) |
| 10:08.39 | Zeal | adys, i've said all i can on the issues, it's just no pheasable on the wiki. i wish it was : / |
| 10:08.41 | Adys | infobot, party |
| 10:08.50 | infobot | Woohoo! Bot on the loose! |
| 10:08.50 | Adys | infobot, dance |
| 10:08.52 | infobot | ACTION <("<) <('_')> (>")> Dance Kirby Dance! |
| 10:08.53 | sancus | If I see an item that has 5 damage and 5 intelligence on it |
| 10:09.01 | Adys | infobot, cookies! |
| 10:09.03 | infobot | <Zygo> our corporate web guy is talking to our corporate database guy...about this "service" where site A sells us a list of cookie keys (and associated name/address/phone number values) that they set in their users' browsers when said users follow a link to our site. |
| 10:09.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, stop :) |
| 10:09.10 | Adys | what the hell |
| 10:09.15 | sancus | and another item that has 3 damage and 4 crit rating on it |
| 10:09.25 | Adys | Im just trying to get something right here |
| 10:09.34 | sancus | The latter item would be higher itemlevel |
| 10:09.38 | sancus | yet the former would be a better item |
| 10:09.39 | Adys | you're pointlessly arguing over something stupid :p |
| 10:09.44 | sancus | and if I know what damage, int, and crit rating do for my character |
| 10:09.49 | sancus | then item level means nothing to me |
| 10:09.57 | Zeal | sancus, blizz's ilvl would beg to differe |
| 10:09.57 | sancus | because i valuate the item entirely based on the stats it provides |
| 10:10.22 | Zeal | but ofc, the type of stats and their allocation does take precedence |
| 10:10.28 | Zeal | i'm not saying it doesn't |
| 10:10.30 | sancus | um it doesn't take precedence |
| 10:10.33 | sancus | it is the entire basis of your decision |
| 10:10.40 | Zeal | no, its not |
| 10:10.43 | sancus | yes it is |
| 10:10.45 | Zeal | the amount of stats is too |
| 10:10.53 | sancus | you can see the amount of stats |
| 10:10.55 | sancus | they're right on the item |
| 10:11.03 | Kirkburn|afk | Ah, your twisting it! |
| 10:11.04 | Zeal | as a hunter, i'd gladly take 3 more stm over 1 agi |
| 10:11.11 | sancus | so? |
| 10:11.16 | Zeal | so |
| 10:11.18 | Kirkburn|afk | *aaaaaaahhh, I meant |
| 10:11.18 | sancus | your item shows you how much stam and agi it has |
| 10:11.37 | sancus | what additional information does itemlevel provide, exactly |
| 10:11.47 | Zeal | ilvl at a glance shows me that this item will have greater allocation of stats, so i don't have to calculate differences unless i need to. |
| 10:11.54 | Kirkburn|afk | ilvl is not an accurate guide to the item. However, it is part of the information about an item, so it belongs on the wiki. |
| 10:11.56 | sancus | thank you |
| 10:11.58 | sancus | you just verified what I said |
| 10:12.15 | Zeal | it also provides a way of showing the relative value of non base stat item attributes |
| 10:12.18 | Zeal | no, i didn;t |
| 10:12.22 | Adys | guys |
| 10:12.22 | sancus | It enables you to make a completely incorrect valuation at a glance that is going to be wrong half the time. |
| 10:12.26 | Adys | just, chill, ok? |
| 10:12.34 | Zeal | no, it's not |
| 10:12.36 | Adys | lets just keep it to what we have |
| 10:12.38 | sancus | which is why blizzard doesn't display it |
| 10:12.46 | sancus | Because if you don't understand what it is, it confuses you |
| 10:12.49 | Zeal | yet they use it? |
| 10:13.07 | sancus | They use it as a rough guideline for their itemizers to keep things consistent |
| 10:13.18 | sancus | it's very rough |
| 10:13.21 | Kirkburn|afk | It's there because, as sancus says, it's how Blizz design the items |
| 10:13.27 | sancus | sortof |
| 10:13.30 | sancus | it's a component of how they design the items |
| 10:13.41 | *** join/#wowwiki drin (n=asdf@212.178.199.2) |
| 10:13.45 | sancus | it's kind of a very loose way of saying 'this item is equal to that, even though they have different stats' |
| 10:13.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Like for a quest, the rewards will have a certain ilvl, so they design around that |
| 10:13.54 | sancus | the problem is that it's VERY loose |
| 10:14.01 | sancus | if you dont know all the details about it, it's useless to your judgements |
| 10:14.10 | Zeal | that's nonsensical, they use it as a important factor in deciding the aollocation of attributes to items, yet you then say yhe opposite, that it has no accurate relation to them.. |
| 10:14.12 | sancus | and they dont follow it strictly either |
| 10:14.18 | sancus | No |
| 10:14.30 | sancus | I'm saying they use it as a 'helper' to derive the stats that are on an item |
| 10:14.39 | Kirkburn|afk | It's info Blizz use, not for the general player to use. But an experienced player can find out ilvls if he wants. |
| 10:14.40 | sancus | If I tell you you have 50 gallons of gas in your tank |
| 10:14.49 | sancus | You don't need to know the equation to derive the amount of gas in your tank |
| 10:14.53 | sancus | based on the size and shape of the tank |
| 10:15.00 | Zeal | and either way, an earlier summary is always beneficial to having to go into the details for yourself |
| 10:15.04 | sancus | unless you want to go into very deep analysis of WHY the tank is the way it is |
| 10:15.16 | sancus | but it's not a summary |
| 10:15.19 | Zeal | which funny enough, is also your argument for why its sooo confusing ¬_¬ |
| 10:15.22 | sancus | it's only a summary if you know what it is |
| 10:15.26 | sancus | and almost no players do |
| 10:15.53 | Zeal | because its not standard only |
| 10:15.58 | sancus | and there already is an even looser summary, which are the quality levels |
| 10:16.07 | Zeal | you say it's more confusing and more detailed, when it;s completely the opposite |
| 10:16.20 | Zeal | which you also say |
| 10:16.21 | sancus | it is confusing |
| 10:16.24 | Zeal | so make up your mind |
| 10:16.29 | Zeal | because you;re arguing with yourself |
| 10:16.32 | Kirkburn|afk | We don't know the exact formulae Blizz use, and especially not in the case of rarity levels |
| 10:16.33 | sancus | no I'm not |
| 10:16.35 | Zeal | *you're |
| 10:16.40 | sancus | we do know the exact formulae bliz use, kirk |
| 10:16.44 | Kirkburn|afk | We do? |
| 10:16.46 | sancus | yea |
| 10:16.50 | Kirkburn|afk | Apologies |
| 10:16.57 | sancus | they explained it at blizzcon |
| 10:17.06 | sancus | it's actually considerably looser than the formula that hyz derived :P |
| 10:17.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh yeah, I think I recall something along those lines |
| 10:17.21 | sancus | and they dont even always follow it |
| 10:17.23 | sancus | like for example |
| 10:17.31 | Kirkburn|afk | It's not the same as when WoW started though, and it gets tweaked, I'm sure |
| 10:17.36 | sancus | they'll make an item with 35 damage and 24 crit rating |
| 10:17.46 | sancus | over an item with 33 damage and 24 crit rating |
| 10:17.49 | sancus | even if the damage is a little too much |
| 10:17.52 | sancus | they like to make their items neat |
| 10:17.56 | sancus | as much as possible |
| 10:18.05 | Kirkburn|afk | And to add a little 'spice' :P |
| 10:18.07 | sancus | yeah |
| 10:18.14 | sancus | which is why the stat isn't all that useful to players |
| 10:18.27 | sancus | because they use it as such a guideline that it's hard to tell what the fuck they actually mean |
| 10:18.38 | sancus | like for example, the rings that come from C'thun are all significantly overvalue |
| 10:18.44 | Zeal | an inaccurate summary is still a summary. |
| 10:18.45 | Kirkburn|afk | Where were we going with this discussion anyway? :) |
| 10:18.45 | sancus | whereas a number of the ones that come from kel'thuzad are undervalue |
| 10:19.06 | Zeal | if anything, standardizing it would force them to be mroe strict. |
| 10:19.27 | Zeal | started as an article disambig talk :P |
| 10:19.29 | sancus | Kirk: Zeal thinks that every epic should have the same valuation and we should have 10 different item rarity levels so that designers have enough freedom :P |
| 10:19.35 | sancus | or 100! |
| 10:19.37 | sancus | or who knows how many |
| 10:19.46 | Kirkburn|afk | In any case, my suggestion would be this: ilvl should be on the wiki tooltips, but at the bottom and smaller. This is how it is normally done in WoW, too. |
| 10:19.48 | Zeal | no, no more |
| 10:19.52 | sancus | lol, no more? |
| 10:19.55 | Zeal | i never said that, and i told you i never said that twice |
| 10:20.07 | sancus | so how exactly would you have multiple levels of dungeons in the first place |
| 10:20.12 | Kirkburn|afk | How can you progress then? |
| 10:20.28 | Kirkburn|afk | You get a purple at 70. Now you're buggered. |
| 10:21.32 | sancus | jesus, I've wasted like half an horu on this idiocy |
| 10:21.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Tier 1, 2, and 3 are epics. Tier 0 was blue. Tier 0.5 was half and half. That means 5 rarity levels above green! |
| 10:22.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Ya, I'm going to ... hmm ... eat? |
| 10:22.24 | Zeal | 1-58 items only in the world. 59-60 for end-game content only. that gives you what? 6-8 perl evel, so 12-16 steps of progression just for end game. |
| 10:22.45 | Zeal | *per level |
| 10:23.05 | Zeal | obviously talk pre-bc here |
| 10:23.31 | Zeal | bc would add 59-60 to the world, same process with 69-70 |
| 10:23.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Then what do you do when the cap raises with the original items? |
| 10:23.48 | Zeal | just said |
| 10:23.52 | Zeal | heh |
| 10:24.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Yes, but you're saying this /instead/ of ilvls |
| 10:24.15 | kuinkala | Happy valentines everyone |
| 10:24.21 | Kirkburn|afk | How can you then relate the two sets of items? |
| 10:24.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Happy valentines, kuinkala :) |
| 10:24.40 | Zeal | yes. that was the point. rarity does away with ilvl. |
| 10:24.52 | Zeal | kik kuinkala </3 ;) |
| 10:24.58 | Zeal | kik? lol |
| 10:25.00 | Zeal | *lol |
| 10:25.22 | Kirkburn|afk | kek |
| 10:26.08 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, suggest what happens for new players between 57-61 when the expansion is out? |
| 10:26.09 | Zeal | what are you saying Kirkburn|afk? you have you rarity, instance indication of what is better in terms of the item's attributes. no question of is this epic better than this epic. merely is this epic better for me than this epic. |
| 10:26.54 | Kirkburn|afk | You are essentially describing the current situation, but in a convoluted way |
| 10:28.06 | Zeal | Kirkburn|afk, they could get grey-blue of 59-79 items in outland or still do 60-endgame for 59-60 grey-epic(legendary, artifact). lvl 57-58? no issue what so ever, they've got their items. |
| 10:28.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Of course 59-60 was end-game only, 59-60 /is/ the end game |
| 10:28.30 | Zeal | i'm essentially descrbining a better version of the current situation :P |
| 10:28.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Then the first set of upgrades /was/ green to blue |
| 10:28.51 | Kirkburn|afk | Then the next set was blue to purple |
| 10:29.05 | Zeal | the first set was lvl 56 blues |
| 10:29.16 | Zeal | then it jumped to 60 epics.. |
| 10:29.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Bleh, I guess |
| 10:29.30 | Zeal | then they went back, and threw in random stuff |
| 10:29.53 | Kirkburn|afk | Anyway, the original 60 items are not a good idea to talk about as the ilvl stuff was messed up and different back then |
| 10:30.08 | Zeal | and then everything after had to stay at 60 epics, because there was nothing left and legendary would devalue itself and epics too much. |
| 10:30.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Well what you're essentially saying is that Tier 2 and Tier 3 should have been higher quality levels |
| 10:31.27 | Kirkburn|afk | I would be hard pressed to think up more than uncommon, rare, epic, legendary ... and still keep it sensible for the player |
| 10:31.43 | Zeal | i'm saying they had to because of the screw up, but didn't because it would have made things worse |
| 10:32.08 | Kirkburn|afk | They had to ... but didn't? |
| 10:32.10 | Zeal | what should have happened, was teir 1 should never have been a 60 epic set. |
| 10:32.28 | Zeal | yes Kirkburn|afk, odd concept huh? |
| 10:33.16 | Kirkburn|afk | It's pretty obvious they didn't have to, since they ... didn't. |
| 10:33.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Anyway, ilvl works within quality levels, not between them |
| 10:33.51 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Black_Temple_Loot http://www.wowwiki.com/Zul%27Aman_Loot keep? |
| 10:34.05 | Adys | honestly i rather have the red links |
| 10:34.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Not so sure |
| 10:34.32 | Zeal | if they didn't have to, i wouldn't be complaining and they wouldn't be a waste of time going after ;) |
| 10:34.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, it could be useful to have them as a kind of starting out template |
| 10:34.56 | Adys | meh |
| 10:34.59 | Adys | ill just leave it |
| 10:35.04 | Zeal | Kirkburn|afk, ilvl works over the top of quality levels. within, yes. |
| 10:35.09 | Kirkburn|afk | They're not open yet, so sensible people shouldn't be clicking them anyway |
| 10:35.28 | Kirkburn|afk | What are you even complaining about? |
| 10:36.11 | Kirkburn|afk | I know you don't like the system, but I don't see /why/ |
| 10:36.14 | Adys | http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=5393 ????? |
| 10:37.13 | Adys | http://www.thottbot.com/?i=56899 |
| 10:37.15 | Adys | lmao |
| 10:37.19 | Adys | "Well we've tried walking on water, falling off things, mana regen rate, health regen rate, and so far NO LUCK on figuring this item out. |
| 10:37.25 | Adys | I think this might be the classic "Keep an idiot busy for hours" type gag" |
| 10:37.31 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 10:37.43 | Kirkburn|afk | Like the troll dude in Shattrath :) |
| 10:37.55 | Zeal | because it played a role in devaluing everything from the 60-endgame for BC players, it provides further confusion, it creates more work for the user than is needed, it relies on third party provided information. |
| 10:37.57 | Adys | haha |
| 10:38.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Devaluing? |
| 10:38.12 | Zeal | yes |
| 10:38.20 | Kirkburn|afk | How?? |
| 10:38.44 | Kirkburn|afk | More work for the user I completely disagree with. They should look at the damn stats and decide for themselves. |
| 10:38.48 | Zeal | or are you telling me at 58-60 you plan to start getting Teir 0, 0.5 or 1 |
| 10:38.59 | Adys | http://www.thottbot.com/?i=55728 |
| 10:39.01 | Adys | in fact |
| 10:39.09 | Adys | its quite a good skillup up to 310 |
| 10:39.12 | Zeal | andteir 2..3.. |
| 10:39.12 | Adys | cheap n stuff |
| 10:39.23 | Zeal | anything from Aq.. |
| 10:39.26 | Kirkburn|afk | Well no, I plan to get greens for my level, because I won't be running the instances to get special level 60 stuff |
| 10:39.26 | Zeal | x_x; |
| 10:39.43 | Zeal | exactly |
| 10:40.09 | Kirkburn|afk | But ... but ... obviously you can't get the stuff because no-one runs the instances, not due to a fault in the system! |
| 10:40.18 | Kirkburn|afk | *item system |
| 10:40.21 | Kirkburn|afk | *item level system |
| 10:41.01 | Zeal | yes, due a fault in the system. they're not worth the time, and in the process of getting them you will become overleveled and would be able to get better straight away. |
| 10:41.14 | Adys | btw |
| 10:41.15 | Kirkburn|afk | To get to Tier 2 level for that type of item would take you the amount of time it takes to get to, say, 67. 67 has equivalent items to Tier 2 |
| 10:41.18 | Adys | these comfortable insoles |
| 10:41.23 | Adys | they are ilvl 60 |
| 10:41.29 | Adys | they must be really useful and powerful |
| 10:41.31 | Adys | tell ya |
| 10:41.33 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 10:41.41 | Zeal | rofl |
| 10:42.10 | Zeal | thought 67 surpassed teir 2, but kk |
| 10:42.14 | Kirkburn|afk | Don't start turning into Angry ogre - we argue about one thing, and then you start railing against something else :/ |
| 10:42.24 | Zeal | no, it;s all one big issue |
| 10:42.26 | Kirkburn|afk | Nah, lots of people still ahve their Tier 2 even at 70 |
| 10:42.29 | Adys | stop arguing then! |
| 10:42.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Well now you're having a go at the way instances work, and it's just not worth the effort |
| 10:42.46 | Zeal | aka. the things i hate about wow and how they all play their part in making it worse :p |
| 10:43.00 | Kirkburn|afk | If you hate WoW, don't bloody talk to us about it! :) |
| 10:43.44 | Zeal | i'm having a go at the way itemization works with the world, instances and a character level. |
| 10:44.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Well originally we were just telling you how ilvl works |
| 10:45.37 | Kirkburn|afk | (plus I can assure you sancu.s knows /a lot/ about this stuff) |
| 10:45.40 | Zeal | mhm, and my point there was why it should either be removed or displayed. for the former, i'm also explaining how that should have worked, and because they didn't, why ilvl was needed instead. |
| 10:46.23 | *** join/#wowwiki Geb (n=chatzill@202.61.164.154) |
| 10:46.32 | Kirkburn|afk | ilvl is there because it's part of how Blizzard work. It's not going to be removed because 1). Blizz want it and 2). Some players want it. |
| 10:46.57 | Zeal | i don't expect blizz to go back and remove ilvl and sort out end game... that'd be silly. just explaining the path of how it was a better system, but why it can't exist in wow now. |
| 10:47.46 | Zeal | and thus, back to why it should be displayed :p |
| 10:50.02 | Zeal | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Sandbox/Item:Conjured_Bread btw Adys. the tooltip and toc order is something i'm uncertain of, decided to side with Kirkburn|afk unless people want it the otherway :p |
| 10:50.45 | Adys | too much info on this page, way too much |
| 10:50.53 | Adys | not gonna talk about it, we already did |
| 10:51.14 | Adys | Category:Item:Conjure Bread/Skills (Create) |
| 10:51.15 | Adys | come on? |
| 10:51.25 | Zeal | yes? |
| 10:51.25 | Adys | ridiculous tbh |
| 10:51.33 | Zeal | rofl |
| 10:51.37 | Zeal | i don't see how |
| 10:51.48 | Adys | I do, and im fairly sure im not the only one |
| 10:51.59 | Zeal | explain :p |
| 10:52.04 | Adys | This article is an item information page for Conjured Bread |
| 10:52.04 | Adys | The contents of this article relate to an item from World of Warcraft. It contains lore, player opinions, and information subject to change. |
| 10:52.05 | Zeal | my memory is bad, lol |
| 10:52.08 | Adys | you DONT need to precise that |
| 10:52.16 | Adys | This item has been in the game since release, never having received any changes. |
| 10:52.20 | Adys | same thing |
| 10:52.48 | Adys | back to my insoles, have fun with your.. erm.. bread |
| 10:52.56 | Zeal | yeah, i've started to go against that myself (header). it was based on what was already in existance, so not my fault. |
| 10:53.04 | Zeal | precise? :S |
| 10:53.13 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Comfortable_Insoles |
| 10:53.25 | Zeal | and no, the history thing is worth mentioning, but granted not in this case. |
| 10:53.36 | Zeal | poor choice of example items. |
| 10:54.07 | Adys | I agree its worth mentionning but only if its not empty |
| 10:56.21 | Zeal | aye |
| 10:58.01 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Druid_talents_%28Burning_Crusade%29 |
| 10:58.03 | Zeal | if you give me an item example, i'll make up an new one :P |
| 10:58.05 | Adys | should this be deleted? |
| 10:58.20 | Zeal | imo yes |
| 10:58.35 | Zeal | jsut make sure the correct info is on the wiki elsewhere. |
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| 11:00.26 | Zeal | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Sandbox/Item:Axe_of_Brox something more substantial, though still a bad example. |
| 11:02.03 | Adys | voidvector has more user pages for speedydeletion that I have user pages counting all my qotds |
| 11:02.06 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Articles_for_speedy_deletion |
| 11:02.58 | Zeal | O_o |
| 11:03.08 | Adys | User:Voidvector/List of NPCs with The Argent Dawn Title |
| 11:03.09 | Adys | ^^ |
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| 11:04.32 | Zeal | list pages = wtfdieinhellfireasthedevildefecatesonyourcorpse.. |
| 11:05.44 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Recentchanges |
| 11:05.45 | Adys | omfg |
| 11:05.53 | Adys | talk about spam |
| 11:06.01 | Zeal | rofl |
| 11:07.52 | Zeal | i still think my user page looks like the best page on the wiki >_> |
| 11:11.47 | Adys | LOL, I think Ive never seen it actually |
| 11:11.59 | Adys | but yea it looks cool |
| 11:15.50 | Zeal | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Sandbox/Main_Page actually, i think that is. my page is second ;) |
| 11:18.26 | Zeal | i should really cook some food >_> |
| 11:20.09 | Adys | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23762 |
| 11:20.10 | Adys | hmm |
| 11:22.23 | Adys | Slowdown incoming |
| 11:24.30 | Adys | A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: |
| 11:24.30 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:24.30 | Adys | from within function "LinksUpdate::invalidatePages". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (localhost)". |
| 11:26.33 | Zeal | slightly different if i recall |
| 11:27.51 | Adys | mmm |
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| 11:40.34 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Places_To_Go_By_Flying |
| 11:40.43 | Adys | someone redirect me that to something that makes sense please >< |
| 11:41.06 | Adys | brb |
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| 12:04.35 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Shard_Of_Sargeras |
| 12:06.06 | Adys | brb |
| 12:08.12 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-68-95.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:11.43 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 12:11.52 | *** topic/#wowwiki by Adys -> Discuss all wiki issues here! Channel info: www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:IRC | RC list: [[ WoWWiki:RC ]] | UI questions? Join #wowi-lounge | Happy Valentine's Day! |
| 12:15.50 | Zeal | it's fake afaik Adys |
| 12:16.12 | Zeal | no item db has it, which is impossible really. |
| 12:16.31 | Zeal | and it has energy restoration, without a rogue class requirment. |
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| 12:22.22 | bleetah | unless it's a new item that actually hasn't dropped on live servers yet, i guess... looking at past forums would seem to indicate it's genuine... the lack of rogue class could be a bug |
| 12:23.01 | bleetah | http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:f3f5Se6YF4MJ:forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html%3FtopicId%3D59326595%26sid%3D1+Shard+Of+Sargeras&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=au&client=firefox-a |
| 12:23.15 | bleetah | and http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=17142mentions it a little as well |
| 12:23.18 | bleetah | as eg's |
| 12:23.44 | bleetah | http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=17142 < the second URL formed correctly |
| 12:23.47 | bleetah | nn all |
| 12:38.35 | Zeal | none of those links prove anything, looked at them before i said what i did |
| 12:40.01 | Zeal | and considering the items are taken from dbc mining, not from in-game reports (merely the extra info is from reports), then it's not in the game unless they haven't updated yet. |
| 12:40.27 | Zeal | which for all them not too.. unlikely |
| 12:40.40 | Zeal | tbh, those links just made me think it was a hoax |
| 12:41.50 | Zeal | also the topic pointed out a lack of effect prefix (use, equip, chance) |
| 12:48.40 | Zeal | ... |
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| 13:15.00 | Zeal | wb adys |
| 13:15.17 | Zeal | btw.. can you er, add an edit summary more often ;) |
| 13:15.34 | Zeal | 90% of the time it seems you don't :p |
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| 13:25.44 | Zeal | nn all |
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| 15:27.50 | Bagginsww | Well, monster guide confirms that Balnazzer possessed, Saidan Dathrohan. |
| 15:28.06 | Bagginsww | rather than just "Balnazzer" taking that form. |
| 15:34.27 | Kirkburn|afk | Amazon.co.uk still doesn't sell it :/ |
| 15:34.55 | Bagginsww | hmm |
| 15:35.33 | Bagginsww | well, let me review it for you first, I don't consider the best book in recent release. Its more stats than lore :p |
| 15:35.50 | Bagginsww | Its not as well written as Brann books. |
| 15:36.10 | Bagginsww | and alot of the material is copied word for word from MoM |
| 15:36.32 | Bagginsww | with a few minor changes, representing retcons from World of Warcraft MMO. |
| 15:37.30 | Bagginsww | So I'd recommend if you want it for your collection that's one thing, but if you just want to read the little bit of lore that exists, and don't want to pay for a bunch of D&D rules, read it in a store. |
| 15:38.34 | Bagginsww | Some of the articles like felguard has like a 2 sentence discripton, and then mostly rpg rules :p |
| 15:39.11 | Bagginsww | That's actually pretty common for each article. |
| 15:39.47 | Bagginsww | Flamewakers article really leaves alot to be desired :p... But I guess its nice cause it confirms their race name :p |
| 15:42.06 | Bagginsww | other than that it only has like a 1 sentence disription, before going into rules :p |
| 15:43.46 | Bagginsww | I think in a way its more poorly written than MoM. At least that book had half page writeups for most creatures. |
| 15:45.58 | Bagginsww | I suppose they had to do this in order to stuff in like over 100 more creatures than the original book. |
| 15:46.08 | Adys | Baggins, what do you think about that? |
| 15:46.08 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/The_Madness_of_King_Kael |
| 15:46.47 | Bagginsww | Its from an RPer right? |
| 15:47.07 | Adys | Aye Ghostwalka |
| 15:47.37 | Bagginsww | I suppose its pretty well written, although I would have left out the trollisms LOL |
| 15:47.47 | Adys | they aint there |
| 15:47.54 | Adys | only the first lines |
| 15:48.06 | Bagginsww | oh, I read another version of it a few weeks ago |
| 15:48.16 | Bagginsww | that was littered with trollisms LOL |
| 15:48.39 | Bagginsww | anycase, I'm off to school, talk to you all later |
| 15:48.56 | Adys | cya |
| 15:55.34 | Adys | Slowwiki has a problem |
| 16:16.05 | Kirkburn|afk | zeal, btw, BBC Two is getting an ident refresh |
| 16:16.45 | Kirkburn|afk | (I like typographical & logo design) |
| 16:17.00 | *** join/#wowwiki Ludith (n=thinkord@d54C30436.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:23.08 | Kirkburn|afk | Dammit, just one place is in stock of Wiis, and it's somewhat expensive bundle - http://www.wii-consoles.co.uk/wii_console_realtime.asp |
| 16:24.05 | Adys | slowly, very slowly trying to improve the item boilerplate |
| 16:24.05 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Dev |
| 16:42.04 | Kirkburn|afk | cool |
| 16:49.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Ghostlands preview! |
| 16:49.22 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/imageviewer.html?/news/images/07-02/,sunwell/,1,16,http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ |
| 16:49.38 | Kirkburn|afk | Bagginsww, you might be interested :) |
| 16:52.33 | Tuqui-tuqui | is that a graphic novel? |
| 16:55.35 | Adys | http://www.acc.umu.se/~zqad/cats/index.html |
| 16:55.38 | Adys | cat piccies |
| 16:55.42 | Adys | 1700 of em :/ |
| 17:05.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Tuqui-tuqui, yes |
| 17:05.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Adys, you can never have too many cat pics :) |
| 17:05.54 | Adys | its freaky : |
| 17:05.55 | Adys | :P |
| 17:05.56 | Kirkburn|afk | Tuqui-tuqui, it's from a set of 3, the Sunwell Manga |
| 17:06.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Look it up on the wiki :) |
| 17:07.13 | Kirkburn|afk | I find this quite an interesting blog - the editors for the BBC (News, mainly). It's amazing the shit they have to put up with in the papers over here sometimes :/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/ |
| 17:07.55 | Kirkburn|afk | (yes it's another anything-but-the-wiki day from me) |
| 17:09.28 | Adys | brb |
| 17:11.10 | sancus | thats because the bbc hates freedom, duh |
| 17:19.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Exactly, because to suggest goverment intelligence can be wrong is taking the side of the terrorists!! |
| 17:20.27 | sancus | terrorist |
| 17:20.33 | Kirkburn|afk | lolz |
| 17:21.21 | Kirkburn|afk | There'a one newspaper here, the Daily Mail, which would and does say that kind of crap |
| 17:21.35 | Kirkburn|afk | It's also anti immigration and pro capital punishment |
| 17:21.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Safe to say, not my favourite newspaper - but it sells worryingly well :/ |
| 17:25.54 | equiraptor | I'm a terrist. I didn't vote for Bush. |
| 17:26.09 | Tuqui-tuqui | wait |
| 17:26.18 | Tuqui-tuqui | so there was a WoW graphic novel? :o~ |
| 17:26.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-29-171.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:26.48 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 17:26.55 | Adys | afk |
| 17:27.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Tuqui-tuqui, indeedy |
| 17:27.14 | Tuqui-tuqui | is it good? |
| 17:27.17 | Tuqui-tuqui | have you guys read it? |
| 17:27.26 | Kirkburn|afk | I have, yeah |
| 17:27.31 | Tuqui-tuqui | is it based in WoW lore? |
| 17:27.33 | Kirkburn|afk | 2 part of it are out now |
| 17:27.35 | Tuqui-tuqui | or like a sidestory |
| 17:27.49 | Kirkburn|afk | It's related, yes |
| 17:27.55 | Tuqui-tuqui | schweet... |
| 17:28.00 | Tuqui-tuqui | amazon FTW! |
| 17:28.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Two of the characters are in the Netherstorm now, and one of the main characters is /extremely/ important for a future update to WoW :) Note the name "SUNWELL manga" |
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| 18:35.25 | Bagginsww | ya that preview was better than the one in ROTH heh |
| 18:37.23 | Bagginsww | have to say the blood elves look better in the manga than the game LOL |
| 18:37.49 | Bagginsww | they don't have that stupid cleft chin |
| 18:42.56 | Bagginsww | when does the book come out? |
| 18:46.20 | |FF|Im2good4u | wow an update i wunder wut blizzard nerfed for hunters this time |
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| 20:20.44 | *** join/#wowwiki Montagg (i=Montag@buic010-e1101-dhcp120.bu.edu) |
| 20:20.53 | Montagg | Three words: Comets of snow. |
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| 20:37.01 | Tuqui-tuqui | oy! |
| 20:37.05 | Tuqui-tuqui | hows schools be |
| 20:37.14 | Tuqui-tuqui | I had class last night |
| 20:37.26 | Tuqui-tuqui | we're learning about premise and charcter development 0.o |
| 20:37.44 | Montag_ | Sounds cool. |
| 20:38.18 | Montag_ | Mine is currently steeped in 2-3 inches of slush, so we're having a Slush Day and everyone's off. |
| 20:54.41 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
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| 21:18.20 | bleetah | it wasn't me! |
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| 21:45.33 | Montagg | Some of these Heart Candies are kind of scary. |
| 21:45.39 | Montagg | "I'll follow you all around Azeroth." |
| 21:46.01 | Hedgeknight | o_O |
| 21:46.17 | Hedgeknight | sounds like something a stalker would say... |
| 21:46.51 | Tuqui-tuqui | maybe it is -.- |
| 21:46.54 | Tuqui-tuqui | a GM stalker |
| 21:47.11 | Montagg | You have to wonder what they do with their down time. |
| 21:47.27 | Hedgeknight | I suppose |
| 21:48.04 | Montagg | I think they take control of low level bosses and cause strange but hilarious wipes. |
| 21:48.13 | Hedgeknight | Dubious. |
| 21:48.36 | Hedgeknight | I've got a interface problem..... |
| 21:48.50 | Hedgeknight | My chat box is....broken. |
| 21:50.19 | Hedgeknight | As in the combat log works, but the chat itself wont...needless to say its very annoying. |
| 21:50.38 | Montagg | What's it doing? |
| 21:50.45 | Hedgeknight | Nothing, thats the problem. |
| 21:50.54 | Montagg | Do you have them separated? |
| 21:50.57 | Hedgeknight | I can see chat bubbles, but theres NOTHING in the chat box |
| 21:51.02 | Hedgeknight | They're connected. |
| 21:51.16 | Montagg | Do you have the General tab selected? |
| 21:51.18 | Hedgeknight | The blizzard memo that pops up that tells you about the new patch doesn't even show up. |
| 21:51.31 | Hedgeknight | Mmhmm. |
| 21:51.56 | Montagg | If you right click on it and go to Channels, is everything there checked off? |
| 21:52.08 | Hedgeknight | ....damn. Hold on. |
| 21:55.35 | Hedgeknight | Works now, thanks. |
| 21:55.43 | Hedgeknight | Kinda odd that the patch would uncheck all of them.... |
| 21:56.19 | Hedgeknight | It dragged my combat log waaay over to the right and locked it in place too... |
| 21:59.51 | Tuqui-tuqui | just ordered this |
| 21:59.52 | Tuqui-tuqui | http://www.jinx.com/scripts/details.asp?productID=809 |
| 21:59.54 | Tuqui-tuqui | :D |
| 22:00.01 | bleetah | I think there was a fix for something pertaining to them in the patch, don't have the notes in front of me to check tho |
| 22:03.36 | Montagg | Cool design for the Horde crest. |
| 22:03.43 | Tuqui-tuqui | yeah! :D |
| 22:03.46 | Montagg | And it looks WARM. |
| 22:03.54 | Tuqui-tuqui | Alliance has one... if youre into that >.> |
| 22:04.07 | Montagg | Sorry. Don't swing that way. |
| 22:08.14 | Montagg | I feel sooo bad for the dreanei. Th elekk are the ugliest things I've ever seen. |
| 22:24.59 | Tuqui-tuqui | I wonder what will happen after WoW |
| 22:25.05 | Tuqui-tuqui | as in the Warcraft lore |
| 22:33.14 | Montagg | I heard a rumor the Xel'Naga were going to kill the Titans. |
| 22:43.54 | Montagg | I'd actually be interested to see the Warcraft universe 100 years in the future. Because so far the main plot's only spanned about 20 years or so. |
| 22:52.24 | bleetah | aye, if it were far enough in the future, they wouldn't have to worry that much about lore continuation, either. 'during the (blah) war, many died and most historical records destroyed, we have no idea' |
| 22:53.06 | bleetah | but throw in some allusions to future plot, etc. |
| 23:07.07 | Tuqui-tuqui | heh |
| 23:07.20 | Tuqui-tuqui | have warcraft turn into starcraft |
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| 23:35.11 | karat | So I have a decent method to solo trash in slave pens |
| 23:35.27 | karat | I wonder if I should write up a howto, though I'd think that if I wrote a howto and people started doing it blizz would change it |
| 23:36.56 | karat | and by slave pens i mean heroic slave pens |
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