| 00:00.30 | Tusva | infobot, do you lead my legions of undead to conquer the world? |
| 00:00.32 | infobot | yes, I lead my legions of undead to conquer the world. |
| 00:00.37 | Tusva | excellent. |
| 00:00.49 | Adys | infobot, do you know what grammar is? |
| 00:00.51 | infobot | yes, I know what grammar is. |
| 00:01.03 | Adys | infobot, grammar? |
| 00:01.04 | infobot | well, grammar is a system of pitfalls thoughtfully prepared for the feet for the self-made man, along the path by which he advances to distinction. |
| 00:01.15 | Adys | infobot, you suck |
| 00:01.17 | infobot | no, *you* suck! |
| 00:01.45 | Adys | infobot.. |
| 00:02.35 | Adys | I don't want to make tusva jealous so I'll just keep my mouth shut now |
| 00:02.50 | Tusva | infobot, adys? |
| 00:02.51 | infobot | rumour has it, adys is just french, or aka The Darkened Gold that wisps through the night alleys, spreading goodness around to the poor and needy, or off-limits... well, some say... some say he knows LA FRENCHELLA... knows her *intimately* |
| 00:03.05 | Tusva | infobot, do you want to have my babies? |
| 00:03.07 | infobot | yes, I want to have my babies. |
| 00:03.07 | Adys | ffs FIN!!! |
| 00:03.26 | Tusva | infobot, do you want to have adys's babies? |
| 00:03.27 | infobot | yes, I want to have adys's babies. |
| 00:03.35 | Tusva | much better. |
| 00:03.40 | *** join/#wowwiki sfl (n=chuckfro@c-69-252-244-27.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 00:09.53 | Leaf_Archimonde | Hello. I have just added http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetShapeshiftForm, but 'example' is not colored as on same pages ;(. I'm new to wiki technology, so can someone check and see what is wrong? |
| 00:10.19 | Adys | hrm |
| 00:10.25 | Adys | sec |
| 00:10.44 | Leaf_Archimonde | Maybe it's something to do with 'templates' used? |
| 00:10.53 | *** join/#wowwiki jerrcs (i=jeremy@59a0271e.umea.cust.skycom.se) |
| 00:11.06 | Adys | ill fix that |
| 00:11.08 | Adys | btw where is tree form for the druid ? :P |
| 00:11.52 | equiraptor | 41 point talent in resto.... If that's what you mean... |
| 00:12.03 | Adys | No, in the page he linked |
| 00:12.05 | Leaf_Archimonde | same as penguin |
| 00:12.12 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetShapeshiftForm |
| 00:12.16 | Adys | id guess its 5 |
| 00:12.22 | Leaf_Archimonde | but i don't checked it personally, so i will not write it down ;() |
| 00:13.36 | Adys | btw Leaf, I don't know what Mikk/Kirkburn's opinions are but personally I don't like the "GetShapeshiftForm -Documentation by ...-" part Ive seen on many pages |
| 00:14.00 | Kirkburn | Me either |
| 00:14.05 | Leaf_Archimonde | Adys - you mean, i need to remove 'Documentation by' ? |
| 00:14.18 | Adys | Yeah just dont put it next time |
| 00:14.27 | Adys | I was going to remove a few I saw this morning actually and forgot about it |
| 00:14.45 | Adys | You didn't know so dont worry about it =) just dont put it up next time |
| 00:14.49 | Leaf_Archimonde | removed |
| 00:15.01 | Kirkburn | Putting names on general info (and templates, tbh) just seems against the spirit of the wiki =) |
| 00:15.01 | Adys | thx :) |
| 00:15.14 | Leaf_Archimonde | Ok, and what's wrong with 'example' field? ;) |
| 00:15.33 | Leaf_Archimonde | why it's not colored with white background and all other stuff? |
| 00:15.45 | Adys | ah |
| 00:15.49 | Adys | sec |
| 00:15.56 | Adys | like that? |
| 00:16.13 | Kirkburn | Just needs a space at the start of a line |
| 00:16.17 | Adys | Aye |
| 00:21.26 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_ForceLogout |
| 00:21.27 | Adys | lol |
| 00:21.32 | Adys | I learn more every day =) |
| 00:21.35 | Adys | how awesome is that |
| 00:21.37 | Leaf_Archimonde | understood |
| 00:21.59 | Leaf_Archimonde | Abys: is it important how i format argguments and return values? Some server engines uses it somehow ? |
| 00:22.28 | Adys | Nah |
| 00:22.32 | Adys | but its important yeah |
| 00:22.50 | Adys | aka normalization ftw :) Well |
| 00:22.51 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Boilerplate:API_Function |
| 00:22.54 | Leaf_Archimonde | how can i read documentation about template used for function descriptions ? |
| 00:23.04 | Leaf_Archimonde | kk ;) |
| 00:23.05 | *** join/#wowwiki tliff (n=tliff@W3442.w.pppool.de) |
| 00:24.13 | Leaf_Archimonde | ok, i will try to re-format it according to template... |
| 00:24.55 | Adys | Kirkburn: http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Boilerplate%3AAPI_Function&diff=160179&oldid=160097 |
| 00:25.17 | Leaf_Archimonde | what is __NOTOC__ ? |
| 00:25.28 | Adys | it removes the Table of Content |
| 00:25.32 | Adys | hold on a sec |
| 00:26.12 | Kirkburn | ? |
| 00:26.49 | Adys | ah gosh, wowwiki has a problem again |
| 00:27.19 | Adys | Leaf_Archimonde: http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Drakefire_Amulet&oldid=390831 |
| 00:27.25 | Adys | thats with the Table of Content |
| 00:27.31 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Drakefire_Amulet&oldid=390832 - thats without |
| 00:28.46 | Adys | you know it freaks me out |
| 00:28.52 | Adys | the aldor vs scryers page |
| 00:29.03 | Adys | has been seen 100 000 times beetween today and three days ago |
| 00:29.11 | *** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 00:29.47 | Adys | it has almost more views than the Burning Crusade page now.. good gosh |
| 00:29.59 | Kirkburn | wow |
| 00:30.13 | Kirkburn | Amazing, isn't it |
| 00:30.13 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Popularpages |
| 00:30.17 | Adys | Yeah |
| 00:30.30 | Adys | id even say creepy |
| 00:30.39 | Adys | at this rythm it will quickly get more views than the main page =) |
| 00:30.42 | Adys | lol |
| 00:30.47 | Kirkburn | 1,000 views to go! |
| 00:30.47 | Fin | it's because search engines don't rank the TBC pages highly |
| 00:31.10 | Adys | http://www.google.fr/search?q=aldor+scryer |
| 00:31.14 | Fin | there's way more TBC sites out there, there's probably not that much competition yet for this subject |
| 00:31.18 | Adys | 4th rank |
| 00:31.33 | Kirkburn | Yup, that page is way up there for eith a search for Aldor or Scryer |
| 00:31.38 | Kirkburn | *either |
| 00:31.45 | voidvector | quick question, do potion tooltiops have "charges" line? |
| 00:31.54 | Kirkburn | Above the Aldor and Scryer pages themselves |
| 00:32.10 | Kirkburn | One would hope so |
| 00:32.21 | Adys | what do you mean voidvector? |
| 00:32.29 | Kirkburn | "5 Charges" |
| 00:32.34 | Adys | I actually dont think stackable items have charges.. |
| 00:32.34 | Fin | content always wins in the end in seo |
| 00:32.55 | Leaf_Archimonde | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetShapeshiftForm <- formatted according to template. Anyone can check so i'm sure all is done correctly and can add more articles correctly? ;) |
| 00:33.28 | Adys | actually, the Aldor vs Scryer page got 100 views beetween when I linked it and now |
| 00:33.29 | Kirkburn | Warcraft truly is messing up Google searches these days :P |
| 00:33.29 | *** join/#wowwiki hokatichenci (n=hoka@ip70-187-179-143.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:33.43 | voidvector | i am trying to convert potion tooltip tables to {{tooltip}}, and most of the potions tables have "Charges: 1 (Expendable)" |
| 00:33.44 | Adys | Leaf, don't worry too much about details =) |
| 00:34.01 | Adys | vv: yank the (expendable) |
| 00:34.34 | hokatichenci | Is Wowwiki all messed up |
| 00:34.40 | Adys | Yes |
| 00:34.43 | voidvector | i am gonna yank the whole line |
| 00:34.53 | Adys | I'd do the same honestly |
| 00:34.59 | Adys | Im just not sure |
| 00:35.15 | Adys | since technically, things like morning glory dew are charged items |
| 00:35.23 | Adys | and count as charged for databases etc |
| 00:35.24 | Kirkburn | hokatichenci, ? |
| 00:35.25 | voidvector | those are not pots |
| 00:35.26 | Adys | but still its stupid |
| 00:35.36 | Adys | Yeah true |
| 00:35.44 | Adys | well just yank the line if charges=1 |
| 00:35.54 | Adys | and leave it if its superior to 1 tho |
| 00:35.56 | Kirkburn | hokatichenci, the high traffic atm gives the wiki trouble - just refresh :) |
| 00:36.29 | Kirkburn | (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.wowwiki.com) |
| 00:36.38 | hokatichenci | Is wowwiki a single server or a WMF style cluster |
| 00:36.54 | Fin | what's a WMF cluster? |
| 00:37.01 | Adys | infobot, do you know what a WMF cluster is? |
| 00:37.06 | infobot | yes, I know what a WMF cluster is. |
| 00:37.12 | Adys | explain to fin then |
| 00:37.22 | Fin | infobot, tell adys about WMF cluster |
| 00:37.32 | Fin | [01:38:18] [Freenode] [<- infobot] i dunno what is 'WMF cluster'. |
| 00:37.33 | Kirkburn | WoWWiki is a solitary PC |
| 00:37.33 | hokatichenci | Wikimedia foundation, they have basically reverse caches along with multiple database servers and actual rendering servers |
| 00:37.45 | hokatichenci | It's surprisingly easy to setup actually |
| 00:37.47 | Adys | infobot, tell fin about infobot |
| 00:37.59 | Fin | [01:38:44] [Freenode] [<- infobot] adys wants you to know: fin, i love abuse, feed me! |
| 00:38.15 | Kirkburn | It's a PC much like most people own, but just with lots of RAM :) |
| 00:38.27 | hokatichenci | hehe figures |
| 00:38.41 | hokatichenci | My LUG has a HA load balanced cluster we run mediawiki on, and it works great |
| 00:38.43 | Fin | Kirkburn: what's the bottleneck, disk? CPU? |
| 00:38.57 | Fin | just being nosy |
| 00:38.58 | hokatichenci | which is kind of sad, given that we barely get any traffic |
| 00:39.04 | Kirkburn | It was the 1 GB of RAM it had until about a week ago, don't know now |
| 00:39.13 | Kirkburn | (vlad upgraded to 4GB) |
| 00:40.09 | Kirkburn | Only sancus or vlad_ can answer =) |
| 00:40.46 | Fin | disk's a bitch |
| 00:41.12 | Kirkburn | I'll be sure to tell Disk |
| 00:41.19 | Adys | infobot, disk? |
| 00:41.20 | infobot | methinks disk is that which stores Debian, its packages, your resume, and other junk. ;) |
| 00:41.20 | Fin | 2 points |
| 00:41.33 | Fin | smartarse |
| 00:41.36 | Fin | :P |
| 00:42.12 | Fin | not in public! we talked about this |
| 00:42.17 | Kirkburn | ~smartarse |
| 00:42.19 | infobot | Me! |
| 00:42.19 | Adys | sorry sweetheart |
| 00:43.14 | Fin | ~help math |
| 00:43.18 | Kirkburn | Should I fetch some popcorn to watch the fireworks? |
| 00:43.28 | Adys | fireworks? |
| 00:43.47 | Adys | infobot, why? |
| 00:43.48 | infobot | Because! |
| 00:43.49 | Kirkburn | Adys and Fun, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-.... |
| 00:43.57 | Adys | Fun? |
| 00:43.59 | Kirkburn | *Fin! |
| 00:44.04 | Adys | infobot, Fun? |
| 00:44.05 | infobot | i heard fun is what I'm not |
| 00:44.07 | Kirkburn | Freudian slip |
| 00:44.42 | Adys | I like to know Infobot's opinion about things you know! |
| 00:45.03 | Adys | infobot, France? |
| 00:45.04 | infobot | well, france is the father of the skiff cluster, or a country in Europe, or spending huge amounts of time on handhelds.org. see also: ~praise france |
| 00:45.24 | Adys | ~praise france |
| 00:45.25 | infobot | All hail france! |
| 00:45.28 | Adys | good |
| 00:45.44 | Kirkburn | NSFW, but fun anyway: http://www.vboogieman.com/boobies.php?text=Adys%20and%20Fin |
| 00:45.58 | Adys | ... wtf |
| 00:46.38 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 00:47.05 | Kirkburn | infobot, England? |
| 00:47.07 | infobot | england is probably Harry-Potter-Land |
| 00:47.17 | Adys | ~Praise Harry Potter |
| 00:47.19 | infobot | All hail Harry Potter! |
| 00:47.19 | Kirkburn | Right on! |
| 00:47.45 | Adys | infobot, porn? |
| 00:47.47 | infobot | Porn remains one of the largest problems with Open Source Software. Often causing development delays, flooded links and, in extreme cases, disabling programmers ability to type. |
| 00:48.07 | Adys | infobot, what are you talking about? |
| 00:48.35 | Adys | btw, 6210 |
| 00:49.26 | Adys | two hours of "too too too too dut dut, too too too too dit dit" freaks you out |
| 00:49.34 | Adys | infobot, World of Warcraft? |
| 00:49.35 | infobot | well, world of warcraft is far too difficult for your little robot brain to understand |
| 00:50.04 | Adys | god damnit, learn some grammar |
| 00:50.21 | sancus | I dont think there is a hardware performance bottleneck right now, btw, I don't think it's a database config/mediawiki sql issue |
| 00:50.52 | sancus | the wiki's performance seems quite good except for those stupid template edits |
| 00:52.02 | sancus | I don't think the load justifies a cluster, either |
| 00:52.17 | Leaf_Archimonde | btw, anyone here good with secure state headers? have a problem with them ;( |
| 00:54.21 | hokatichenci | Kirkburn, way to redirect me? |
| 00:54.36 | hokatichenci | That site like doesn't work |
| 00:58.19 | Kirkburn | That link, btw, came from: |
| 00:58.22 | Kirkburn | ~boobies |
| 00:58.23 | infobot | http://www.vboogieman.com/boobies.php?text=Zaurus |
| 00:58.36 | Kirkburn | So don't go thinking I found it =) |
| 00:58.40 | Adys | lol |
| 00:58.48 | Adys | come on |
| 00:58.50 | Kirkburn | Getting closer: |
| 00:58.50 | Kirkburn | World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade ‎(745,876 views) |
| 00:58.50 | Kirkburn | Comparison of Aldor and Scryer rewards ‎(745,205 views) |
| 00:58.59 | Adys | you did whisper infobot "boobies" |
| 00:59.07 | Kirkburn | Yes, yes I did |
| 00:59.10 | Adys | LOL |
| 00:59.49 | Kirkburn | I was researching! |
| 00:59.53 | Adys | ... |
| 01:00.08 | Kirkburn | Hey, you're the one who asked infobot about porn :P |
| 01:00.57 | Adys | haha |
| 01:03.11 | Adys | Kirkburn, are you good in xml? |
| 01:03.37 | Kirkburn | no |
| 01:03.41 | Adys | >< |
| 01:03.47 | Kirkburn | XHTML, perhaps :) |
| 01:03.52 | Adys | sec |
| 01:04.11 | Kirkburn | As in, I can write a website, but not program |
| 01:05.50 | Adys | http://www.pastey.net/5689 - any idea why the second button, the EvilTwinFrameUpdateButton, still rotates the model to the right? |
| 01:05.58 | Adys | it was originally a rotate to right button |
| 01:07.43 | Adys | now it does both updating the model and rotating it |
| 01:08.12 | Kirkburn | nope :/ |
| 01:08.23 | Kirkburn | Sorry |
| 01:08.26 | Adys | hrrmmm |
| 01:08.43 | Kirkburn | Pester the wowi channel again :) |
| 01:09.44 | Kirkburn | Off to bed |
| 01:09.53 | Kirkburn | G'night everyone! |
| 01:10.02 | Adys | gn kirky |
| 01:10.23 | Kirkburn | nn adys...y? |
| 01:42.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=masked@c-71-227-151-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:42.35 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 02:08.44 | zeal | i'm sure you know XML kirkburn, a monkey could learn it in a day.. It's the languages defined for use in XML that's the problem :P |
| 02:08.54 | zeal | *that are |
| 02:09.31 | Zeal | didn't ding 20 today, 3k away :( |
| 02:09.42 | Zeal | and i've finished all the Quel'thalas quests. |
| 02:10.44 | Tusva | FASCINATING :D |
| 02:11.45 | Tusva | What class is your BE, Zeal? |
| 02:11.57 | foxlit | "WoWWiki has a problem" |
| 02:18.50 | Zeal | guess tusva :P |
| 02:19.09 | *** join/#wowwiki Dragofix- (i=Dragofix@dsl-hkigw8-fe10f800-107.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 02:19.17 | Zeal | adys and kirkburn have left i see, the two people i wanted to talk to :( |
| 02:19.19 | Tusva | Oh no, not shammy |
| 02:19.20 | Zeal | oh well |
| 02:19.23 | Tusva | Oh fine. |
| 02:19.24 | Zeal | rofl |
| 02:19.27 | Tusva | Don't talk to me. |
| 02:19.28 | Zeal | pala |
| 02:19.42 | Zeal | well you can fill in for adys as you'll be interested too |
| 02:19.45 | Zeal | :p |
| 02:19.49 | Tusva | I tend to be :P |
| 02:19.57 | Zeal | actually it might have been you i told already.. |
| 02:20.58 | Tusva | ? |
| 02:21.01 | Zeal | Basically, i can, if people see just cause (as i still wish to see it debated), code item pages to function as {{<item>|icon}} for example, just to pull the icon in. |
| 02:21.28 | Zeal | tooltip, costs, icon, w/e else. |
| 02:22.01 | Tusva | With what? I assume not <noincludes> |
| 02:23.27 | Zeal | no includes would be needed, as would include onlys, and then also conditionals ({{if}} and {{qif}} etc) |
| 02:23.42 | Tusva | ah so it's a series of nested ifs and noincludes |
| 02:23.44 | Zeal | it's a toughy to code. |
| 02:24.01 | foxlit | Meh, {{if}} |
| 02:24.17 | Tusva | honestly, i think we can accomplish everything in the tooltip |
| 02:24.31 | Tusva | in terms of pulling into other pages |
| 02:24.41 | Tusva | we can throw the icon and price in there if need be |
| 02:25.01 | Tusva | I never saw a reason to have price be it's own variable to be honest, just should be in the tooltip |
| 02:25.05 | Zeal | basically, the whole page would have to be in no noincludes, then a seperate section for these things with include only, and then {{qif}} to check what's being asked for. or {{if}} is people want multiple things. |
| 02:25.50 | Tusva | I think we could just plan for a tooltip being pulled that's it. any more variables being passed and we're looking at once messy page for little gain. |
| 02:25.55 | Zeal | well i don't wish to see any of it included, no ones yet to give me a good reason to justify it. |
| 02:26.05 | Zeal | indeed |
| 02:26.31 | Tusva | Tooltips are going to have to be pulled if anything, that's a fact. I know you don't agree with it, but it's going to be expected. |
| 02:30.46 | Tusva | But again, I don't see a need for anything else being pulled. It can all be accomplished in the tooltip. |
| 02:38.51 | Zeal | expected because of lack of foresight :P |
| 02:38.59 | Zeal | anyways.. voidvector |
| 02:39.14 | Zeal | you mentioned something about charges and {{tooltip}}? |
| 02:39.32 | voidvector | ? |
| 02:40.09 | Tusva | Zeal if you'd like to put together a test of such an itempage, I'd encourage it. Otherwise I'll whip up something. I expect it'll be needed once we start standardizing. |
| 02:40.44 | voidvector | why do we ever need to pull item price? |
| 02:41.10 | Tusva | We don't, at least I don't think we do |
| 02:41.13 | Zeal | i'm waiting on the policy to go through :P |
| 02:41.26 | Tusva | Alright, I'll whip up something, then. |
| 02:41.34 | voidvector | oh, i asked about what need to be included in {{tooltip}} when converting, not changing it |
| 02:41.36 | Zeal | <voidvector> i am trying to convert potion tooltip tables to {{tooltip}}, and most of the potions tables have "Charges: 1 (Expendable)" |
| 02:42.42 | voidvector | i am using bot to convert the table tooltips to {{tooltip}}. (It doable for a lot of them because they all have the same format, people just copy and pasted) |
| 02:42.59 | Zeal | yeah |
| 02:43.12 | voidvector | and i saw that charge thing in potions |
| 02:43.16 | voidvector | which doesn't exist in game |
| 02:43.33 | Zeal | i've probably messed up with charges, as the db sites were incosistant in how they did it. |
| 02:44.12 | Zeal | and i need to fix unique, i've done it wrong : / |
| 02:44.58 | Tusva | Actually, now that I think about it. If we're (theoretically) only pulling the tooltip, why are {{if}}s even needed? Just the noinclude should do. |
| 02:45.02 | voidvector | i just stripped out all the "charges", because i have only converted potions, food, and trade items. None of those have charges as I recall. |
| 02:45.43 | Zeal | if it is only the tooltip, that is right tusva |
| 02:46.00 | Zeal | correct voidvector |
| 02:46.02 | Tusva | well, that simplifies things. |
| 02:46.30 | Tusva | what else would people want to pull that we don't have in (or can't put in) the tooltip that would be worth any messy {{if}} nesting? |
| 02:47.21 | Tusva | ooh, item sets. that may not flow very well being pulled in along with the tooltip to external articles. |
| 02:47.26 | Zeal | the item on it's own. |
| 02:47.27 | Tusva | once they're in place i mean |
| 02:47.37 | Zeal | *icon on it's own |
| 02:47.41 | Zeal | the price on it's own etc |
| 02:47.47 | Tusva | icon i can see. |
| 02:47.50 | Tusva | price, i can't |
| 02:47.57 | Zeal | vendor sheets. |
| 02:48.14 | Zeal | icon, price, name, quality. |
| 02:48.40 | Zeal | though i don't agree with vendor sheets anyways.. but people seem to want it >_> |
| 02:49.04 | Tusva | you have any vendor sheet examples handy? or are you referring to the "rewards" content in articles |
| 02:50.15 | Zeal | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Sandbox/Templates/vendorsheet |
| 02:50.50 | Zeal | if only floats weren't shit.. |
| 02:51.00 | Tusva | how is that useful without seeing the stats of the items? |
| 02:51.34 | Tusva | sad that by reflex I moused over the icon expecting a tooltip :/ |
| 02:52.16 | Zeal | haha |
| 02:52.20 | Zeal | indeed |
| 02:52.36 | Zeal | and it's simply there to provide cost and item name display |
| 02:52.49 | Zeal | .. i guess |
| 02:52.51 | Tusva | i don't see how that's functionally useful, though. |
| 02:52.59 | Zeal | neither do i.. |
| 02:53.13 | Zeal | i'd rather people just click a link and get all the info they need. |
| 02:53.37 | Tusva | or have the info they need displayed there :P |
| 02:53.43 | Zeal | than pull half of it in and redisplay. |
| 02:53.44 | Tusva | maybe an abbreviated tooltip of sorts. |
| 02:54.01 | Zeal | well that's what this javascript stuff is going to handle |
| 02:54.11 | Zeal | but evne then, i don;t agree with it. |
| 02:54.20 | Tusva | what "this javascript stuff" what stuff? |
| 02:55.37 | Zeal | well obvious not coming until it can be added. |
| 02:55.46 | Zeal | but onmouse over tooltips and such. |
| 02:55.59 | Tusva | well, yeah but I don't think that's something we can neccessarily depend on. |
| 02:56.03 | Tusva | until it's installed :P |
| 02:56.14 | Zeal | what bugs me, is don't even need it really. |
| 02:56.22 | Zeal | can be done just with css. |
| 02:56.42 | Zeal | though IE6 won't support it, but who cares? lol |
| 02:57.24 | Tusva | riddle me this |
| 02:57.56 | Tusva | is there a way to have the {{tooltip}} template disregard some variables as defined in the original article if pulled? perhaps with {{if}}s? |
| 02:58.10 | Zeal | it already does that, lol. |
| 02:59.00 | Zeal | well i'm asuming wiki variables function over double inclusions. |
| 02:59.25 | Zeal | if it doesn't, it can be arranged (similar to what i've done for the Policy/Talk and Delete/Talk templates) |
| 02:59.47 | Zeal | *for how doc= works. |
| 03:00.25 | Tusva | i'm thinking of an abbreviated or "vendor" version of the tooltip that doesn't include the more superflueous stuff (BoP, durability, etc etc) that isn't really needed in a vendor or comparison sort of situation |
| 03:00.35 | Tusva | yellow text, item level |
| 03:00.56 | Zeal | yes, that could be arranged. |
| 03:01.27 | Zeal | basically, atm, the tooltip scales down, and drop all non-default tooltip info when used outside it's item page by default. |
| 03:01.32 | Zeal | *drops |
| 03:02.44 | Tusva | so i see. |
| 03:02.54 | Tusva | though I think that reduced version should have the buy/sell variables |
| 03:03.15 | Zeal | i could add it so we could use {{<item>|tooltip=vendor}} would would insert mode=vendor into {{tooltip}} and display it as a vendor item |
| 03:03.27 | Zeal | *which would |
| 03:08.01 | Tusva | something to chew on i guess. i smell a big discussion on the boilerplate/template to be used for item page standards :P |
| 03:08.18 | Zeal | indeed, lol |
| 03:09.54 | Tusva | I'm just glad we're getting towards standardizing. Seeing all the different ways item pages are made makes me sad in my face. Plus we currently don't have any standards for what constitutes a stub or not, so much stuff to tidy soon :D |
| 03:10.18 | Zeal | lol yeah. |
| 03:10.54 | Tusva | PROGRESS~! *points forward* |
| 03:11.00 | Tusva | infobot, do you like progress? |
| 03:11.01 | infobot | yes, I like progress. |
| 03:11.05 | Tusva | excellent. |
| 03:11.11 | Tusva | time to work on level 66 :P |
| 03:15.10 | Zeal | rofl |
| 03:16.37 | Zeal | pepare for slow down.. |
| 03:18.20 | voidvector | i found wowwiki's policy idiotic, we don't condone direct datamining, but we can still post information dugged up by Thottbot and the likes. |
| 03:18.39 | Zeal | and soon we will be datamining.. |
| 03:19.19 | Zeal | tbh, i have no issues about datamining, i have issues with exploitation on user data and incepting server-client data. |
| 03:19.34 | Tusva | i think datamining was more of a concern in the betas |
| 03:19.53 | Tusva | ie: non "retail" material |
| 03:20.18 | Zeal | oh poop.. i broke it. |
| 03:20.26 | Tusva | pictures of tier 1,000 armor and the like |
| 03:21.22 | Zeal | over 9 thousand! |
| 03:22.19 | voidvector | oh zeal, when you demonstrate a template (as in code example) i think you should use the template itself, so there's less discrepancy |
| 03:23.17 | Zeal | i bet {{if|{{{unique|}}}|then=Unique {{{unique}}}|else={{if|{{{unique}}}|else=Unique}}}} seems rather confusing to you both huh? :P |
| 03:24.25 | Zeal | voidvectory, when i first started out, i didn't realize you could use the template on itself (seems like a DoS attack waiting to happen :S). and other cases i've used subst: |
| 03:24.31 | Zeal | *-y |
| 03:24.56 | Zeal | but yeah, i've started to use the template itself now |
| 03:25.18 | Zeal | and going to be adding the doc= param method where needed. |
| 03:26.12 | voidvector | regarding that unique thing, I avoid reading other people's code unless i have to. =) |
| 03:29.28 | Zeal | well basically it's saying if defined and contains a value disaplay Unique (<value>), if not, then if no value, display Unique. :p |
| 03:30.51 | Zeal | its the complicated way you have to do something for "if defined but empty, display Unique. If defined with a value, display Unique (<value>)" :P |
| 03:35.40 | Zeal | god i hate stupid people.. |
| 03:35.46 | Zeal | anyways, gunna sleep now. nn all |
| 03:36.02 | *** join/#wowwiki Tusva (n=tusva@68.46.5.60) |
| 03:36.36 | Zeal | oh before i go to sleep.. |
| 03:36.52 | voidvector | ? |
| 03:36.52 | Zeal | tusva, want a new icon list for post 2.0.3 beta? :P |
| 03:37.17 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-109-157.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:39.28 | Tusva | is it vastly different? |
| 03:39.34 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-109-157.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:40.36 | Zeal | won't know until i extract :P |
| 03:40.39 | Tusva | i already have the icon lists from the mpqs handy, just haven't uploaded them to compare against |
| 03:42.20 | Zeal | hm.. i just remembered why i hate mpqeditor.. |
| 03:42.28 | Zeal | did winmpq get updated yet? ; / |
| 03:47.27 | Tusva | infobot, do you have a problem? |
| 03:47.30 | infobot | yes, I have a problem. |
| 03:47.55 | Tusva | then you and the Wiki should hook up! |
| 03:55.19 | Tusva | goodbye, Zeal |
| 03:55.22 | Tusva | goodbye, infobot |
| 03:55.26 | Tusva | infobot, goodbye |
| 03:55.28 | infobot | Why are you talking to a bot? Do you talk to walls, too? And the floor? Bye floor! Take it easy wall! |
| 03:55.36 | Tusva | aw <3 |
| 04:10.46 | Zeal | bah |
| 04:10.48 | Zeal | and lol |
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| 04:46.54 | pakoz | Yo~ |
| 04:46.59 | Zeal | lo |
| 04:50.44 | pakoz | how goes it? |
| 05:10.40 | Zeal | ok |
| 05:10.44 | Zeal | working on icon stuff |
| 05:11.46 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-109-157.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:41.26 | Zeal | ok, now i'm realy off. nn all |
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| 08:22.10 | Kandastra | hello @all |
| 08:22.58 | Kandastra | I was wondering if anyone experienced might want to take a look at the article about the quest "Blueleaf Tubers" (Razorfen Kraul) that i just wrote, and tell me what I did wrong |
| 09:00.05 | *** join/#wowwiki eurojax-gobears (i=eurojax@155-201-237-24.gci.net) |
| 09:00.19 | eurojax-gobears | anyone know where I can find info on all the key quests in BC? |
| 09:00.32 | eurojax-gobears | like all the attunement quests? Shattered halls, karazhan, shadow labs, etc |
| 09:01.11 | Kandastra | http://beta.worldofraids.com/burning_crusade/attunements/ |
| 09:02.09 | eurojax-gobears | <3 you |
| 09:02.14 | Kandastra | np ^^ |
| 09:29.10 | pakoz | hmm, anyone know where - or can simply tell me the best avenue for black smith from 300-375/ |
| 10:06.16 | dok3Dal | Having your whole guild providing you with materials :/ |
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| 12:55.03 | *** join/#wowwiki JamieSI (n=spitfire@host86-136-169-80.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:55.06 | JamieSI | Hello |
| 12:55.10 | JamieSI | Is Crazy here? |
| 12:55.14 | JamieSI | Hes starting to really annoying me |
| 12:55.22 | JamieSI | or any of the admins |
| 12:57.32 | JamieSI | ffs |
| 12:57.34 | JamieSI | anyone here? |
| 13:00.19 | JamieSI | hello?!?! |
| 13:00.27 | JamieSI | 37 people and no reply.... |
| 13:11.13 | fLUx-- | Im here now |
| 13:11.14 | fLUx-- | lol |
| 13:11.49 | JamieSI | lol |
| 13:11.55 | JamieSI | do you know any of the admins? |
| 13:20.56 | sancus | most everyone is asleep or doing something important, as it's 8am EST :P |
| 13:21.13 | sancus | I dont have admin privileges on the wiki currently, but I'm sure kirkburn or someone will see your complaint and deal with it. |
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| 13:35.01 | *** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 13:37.46 | JamieSI | lol |
| 13:37.51 | JamieSI | I'll wait for kickburn :) |
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| 13:41.09 | bahadir | elo |
| 13:42.16 | JamieSI | hi |
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| 13:50.45 | *** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:50.45 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ |
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| 13:53.11 | JamieSI | kirkburn! |
| 13:53.14 | JamieSI | really need to talk |
| 13:53.18 | JamieSI | pm if you can allow me |
| 13:53.24 | Kirkburn | sur |
| 13:53.24 | Kirkburn | e |
| 13:53.27 | Kirkburn | (argh) |
| 13:53.48 | JamieSI | seems I can't |
| 13:53.49 | JamieSI | anyway |
| 13:53.55 | JamieSI | Crazytalk is annoying me |
| 13:54.01 | JamieSI | he's moaning about the mirror page |
| 13:54.10 | JamieSI | yet I only move mine because people move us down and them up |
| 13:54.14 | JamieSI | and then he doesn't do anything about that |
| 13:54.19 | JamieSI | just edits my changes |
| 13:54.32 | JamieSI | and the patch page should be based on first come first served |
| 13:54.42 | JamieSI | since it's the only fair way I think |
| 13:54.45 | Kirkburn | Alphabetical |
| 13:55.16 | Tepetkhet | ... |
| 13:55.40 | Tepetkhet | (Can't contact the database server: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11) (localhost)) |
| 13:55.51 | JamieSI | but with alphabetical, the sites with A get the advantage lol |
| 13:57.05 | Kirkburn | Same as any directory :P |
| 13:57.15 | Kirkburn | Sorry, but it's the only way we can keep it under control |
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| 14:04.52 | JamieSI | I supose |
| 14:04.58 | JamieSI | I'll keep my eyes open then |
| 14:05.02 | JamieSI | and keep it alpha |
| 14:05.04 | JamieSI | when ever I see |
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| 14:34.03 | Kirkburn | eBay has announced that it will no longer accept listings for virtual items and accounts for online games like World of Warcraft. |
| 14:35.06 | nemppu | >:o |
| 14:35.20 | nemppu | did they get a lot crap for it? |
| 14:35.26 | Kanda|away | won't change much.. |
| 14:35.35 | nemppu | yeah it will just move elsewhere |
| 14:35.45 | Tepetkhet | Good. |
| 14:35.45 | nemppu | there already are WoW account selling boards |
| 14:36.03 | nemppu | ive seen them, ive seen them with my eyes |
| 14:36.09 | nemppu | theyre often not in disguise |
| 14:36.16 | Kanda|away | you'll just see lots of new auctions: offering a beautiful blue piece of paper! bidder gets <insert random item/account/amount of gold> for free! |
| 14:36.32 | nemppu | xD |
| 14:36.34 | nemppu | cunning! |
| 14:36.56 | Kirkburn | lol: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/roo/268148389.html |
| 14:37.03 | kaso | Blue paper?! i always wanted some blue paper |
| 14:37.15 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 14:38.30 | kaso | thats pretty amusing |
| 14:38.49 | Tepetkhet | HAHAHAHA |
| 14:38.51 | Tepetkhet | Nice. |
| 14:38.59 | Tepetkhet | Whoah. |
| 14:39.02 | Tepetkhet | 6th and Harrison? |
| 14:39.09 | Tepetkhet | And only $738/month? |
| 14:39.11 | Tepetkhet | Hey, I'm there! |
| 14:39.47 | Tepetkhet | I like the subtle photoshop job on the Blood Elf male. |
| 14:40.23 | Tuqui-tuqui | I deman Doritos >:{ |
| 14:40.26 | Tuqui-tuqui | demand* |
| 14:40.47 | Kanda|away | now is the time to repeat a question i asked this night when everyone was idle ^^ |
| 14:41.02 | Tepetkhet | Boxers or briefs? |
| 14:41.06 | Kanda|away | i wrote an article for quest: blueleaf tubers, anyone wanna take a look at it and tell me what i did wrong? |
| 14:41.07 | Tuqui-tuqui | Boxers |
| 14:41.12 | Kanda|away | i'm new to the wiki |
| 14:41.18 | Tuqui-tuqui | briefs are not good for you |
| 14:41.20 | Tepetkhet | New to undergarments, too? |
| 14:41.22 | Tuqui-tuqui | ¬.¬ |
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| 14:43.34 | Tepetkhet | I give up. What did you do wrong? |
| 14:43.45 | Kanda|away | i dunno, you tell me |
| 14:43.46 | Kanda|away | lol |
| 14:44.19 | Kanda|away | or let me rephrase that: ... and tell me IF i did anything wrong |
| 14:49.46 | *** join/#wowwiki dotted (n=me@0x555157c7.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:50.56 | dotted | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Server:Trollbane_Europe&diff=0&oldid=405487 i need an explanation for this becuase i dont get this at all |
| 14:52.20 | dotted | apparently this guy thinks my server suddenly turned into an US PvE server from a European PvP server |
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| 15:07.16 | Kirkburn | Kandastra, looks fine to me |
| 15:09.01 | Kirkburn | dotted, lol wtf |
| 15:09.39 | Kirkburn | dotted, ah I think I see |
| 15:09.46 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Trollbane redirects |
| 15:10.02 | Kirkburn | Completely dumbasses edit though ^^ |
| 15:10.51 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ |
| 15:10.57 | Hobinheim | howzit goin |
| 15:11.50 | Hobinheim | infobot, how are you |
| 15:11.50 | infobot | Hobinheim: pretty good. how about you? |
| 15:11.53 | equiraptor | I HATE MECHANOSTRIDERS! |
| 15:11.56 | Hobinheim | aww i'm good, infobot, thanks |
| 15:12.05 | Hobinheim | equiraptor, why? i want one |
| 15:12.15 | equiraptor | They're noisy and polluting. |
| 15:12.22 | Hobinheim | then i don't want one =( |
| 15:12.39 | equiraptor | I hate watching all that black smoke come out the back, and I hate the clank, clank, clank. |
| 15:12.50 | equiraptor | My mage is turning in runecloth to get an Elekk. |
| 15:12.59 | nemppu | elekk are ^--^ |
| 15:13.03 | nemppu | equiraptor which server? |
| 15:13.09 | equiraptor | whisperwind, US. |
| 15:13.12 | Hobinheim | not satisfied with your racial/class mount? |
| 15:13.17 | Hobinheim | or pvp mount? |
| 15:13.23 | equiraptor | She's a gnome, and I don't PvP. |
| 15:13.41 | equiraptor | I figure smallest race on the largest mount she can ride... :) |
| 15:16.34 | *** join/#wowwiki Creator (n=CreatorY@IGLD-83-130-229-177.inter.net.il) |
| 15:16.47 | Creator | hola amigos que tal? |
| 15:19.21 | Kandastra | thx kirk |
| 15:19.39 | Kirkburn | hey Creator, np Kandastra |
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| 15:24.41 | Hobinheim | ques "que tla" in anglais? |
| 15:25.02 | Tepetkhet | I'm not really a web designer or programmer. I can edit stuff in vi and I have built a crappy corp website with css and php... |
| 15:25.50 | Tepetkhet | I want something that'll help me put together a decent guild website with a calendar, forums, Who's on Vent thing... |
| 15:26.05 | Hobinheim | that's a tall order, i think |
| 15:26.29 | Tepetkhet | Well, I did updates on my old guild's website. They used e_107. |
| 15:26.40 | Tepetkhet | I didn't do any of the putting together, though. |
| 15:30.47 | *** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-20-106.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:30.47 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ |
| 15:31.45 | Tepetkhet | o_O |
| 15:31.46 | Tepetkhet | FAILURE AND STRANGE DUMP SUMMARY: |
| 15:31.47 | Tepetkhet | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:31.55 | Tepetkhet | STRANGE?? |
| 15:32.07 | Tepetkhet | WTF, Amanda? |
| 15:37.53 | *** join/#wowwiki sketchyd (i=sketchyd@185.sub-75-196-98.myvzw.com) |
| 15:38.05 | dotted | Hmm what should an guild article be called if there exists guilds with the same name on different servers? |
| 15:38.17 | dotted | Guildname_(Servername)? |
| 15:39.36 | Hobinheim | yeah |
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| 15:50.58 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o adys] by ChanServ |
| 16:29.57 | *** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com) |
| 16:29.57 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ |
| 16:39.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Gryphen, regarding the Thott and Alla reversions, I don't believe the info should be on the wiki either as it invites discussion of matters I don't think the wiki should get involved in |
| 16:40.25 | Gryphen | Well I viewed it as obvious bias anyhow with positive edits to wowhead just prior and negative to alla and thott right after |
| 16:41.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Ah, yeah, I see |
| 16:43.51 | Gryphen | it was even copy/pasted in haste with spelling errors |
| 16:44.08 | Gryphen | drives me nuts that stupid debate |
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| 16:45.26 | Gryphen | ugh, dang quicktime |
| 16:48.02 | Tepetkhet | hm |
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| 16:59.42 | adys | Kirkburn|afk: which reversions? |
| 17:00.28 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Thottbot&curid=17086&diff=466982&oldid=465960&rcid=377460 , http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Allakhazam&curid=19064&diff=466981&oldid=465958&rcid=377459 |
| 17:02.26 | Kirkburn|afk | Fun article of the day! http://www.wowwiki.com/Identifying_Aberrant_Personalities |
| 17:07.42 | *** join/#wowwiki Lox (n=Lox@207.250.72.2) |
| 17:08.10 | *** part/#wowwiki Lox (n=Lox@207.250.72.2) |
| 17:09.44 | sancus | could sum that up as 'dont waste your time with pugs' |
| 17:13.09 | Hobinheim | i... don't know what to do with those personality articles |
| 17:13.16 | Hobinheim | people just add and add and add... |
| 17:13.31 | Hobinheim | WTS BROKENWIKI.COM |
| 17:13.55 | Adys | lol indeed |
| 17:15.04 | Adys | bah... |
| 17:16.12 | Zeal | yeah, that's my fault. |
| 17:16.22 | Zeal | <@Kirkburn> eBay has announced that it will no longer accept listings for virtual items and accounts for online games like World of Warcraft. <-- nice. |
| 17:16.30 | *** join/#wowwiki Loxara (n=Loxara@207.250.72.2) |
| 17:16.58 | Hobinheim | uhh but according to slashdot, second life has survived the axe |
| 17:17.06 | Gryphen | odd, thought i just |
| 17:17.06 | Hobinheim | funny since one of the ebay investors is all up in second life |
| 17:17.08 | Hobinheim | or something like that |
| 17:17.10 | Gryphen | yeah what hob said |
| 17:17.23 | Zeal | Gryphen, i felt that company profile thing was valid (and i don't see any speculation). the competitors bit wasn't needed though. |
| 17:17.38 | Gryphen | it is speculation |
| 17:17.55 | Gryphen | cite the source |
| 17:18.06 | Zeal | we have to go through this again? |
| 17:18.07 | Gryphen | popular rumor doesnt make it true |
| 17:18.28 | Gryphen | nope, and we wont with spculative info not on the wiki |
| 17:18.41 | Zeal | hell, we have people in this chan they work/worked for Thott and know IGE are in charge and have stated it. |
| 17:18.49 | Zeal | it's not speculative. |
| 17:19.00 | Zeal | it's not rumor |
| 17:19.03 | Gryphen | it is, i work with thott |
| 17:19.07 | sancus | parent company of IGE owns thott, it's not speculative |
| 17:19.07 | Zeal | its a fact that they attempted tohide. |
| 17:19.13 | Hobinheim | Gryphen, how do you work with thott? |
| 17:19.14 | sancus | are you fucking stupid |
| 17:19.15 | Zeal | thank you sancus. |
| 17:19.36 | sancus | I worked for thott, I have the contract I signed sitting right here in a filing cabinet, and he never made any secret of the fact that IGE owned his site. |
| 17:20.07 | Zeal | and Alla's ownership was publically annnounced by them. |
| 17:20.10 | Gryphen | scan it, then cite it on the wiki |
| 17:20.19 | Gryphen | there is no factual info available |
| 17:20.23 | sancus | ??? |
| 17:20.50 | sancus | you arent really questioning me, are you? |
| 17:21.14 | Gryphen | i can |
| 17:22.02 | Hobinheim | creepy... |
| 17:22.02 | *** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 17:22.19 | Zeal | http://wow.azzor.com/445/truth_about_IGE.php, not a direct source, but give it a read. |
| 17:22.26 | Gryphen | ive read it |
| 17:22.36 | Gryphen | as direct as a wiki edit |
| 17:23.26 | Zeal | well you also know about the whois info, and that the statement made on the wiki was accurate in it's relationship. |
| 17:24.06 | Gryphen | i own domains and host websites and do not own the content for either |
| 17:24.38 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-20-184.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:26.40 | Zeal | yet you have an association with them. |
| 17:27.02 | Gryphen | i dont control anything about their company, nor own them |
| 17:27.19 | Zeal | "While previously independent, currently both Thottbot and [[Allaklazam]] are owned by [[RPG Holdings LLC]]." fact. "RPG Holdings is also the parent company of IGE Ltd., the largest virtual currency trading company for [[gold farmer]]s." fact |
| 17:27.35 | Zeal | i don't see it even claiming to say IGE owns Thott or Alla. |
| 17:27.41 | Zeal | so what you're arguing is moot. |
| 17:28.23 | Gryphen | im done, neither wont be convinced |
| 17:28.29 | Gryphen | will* |
| 17:28.30 | Zeal | wtf.. |
| 17:28.45 | Gryphen | im not going to debate it, again... |
| 17:29.07 | sancus | im baffled |
| 17:29.28 | Zeal | so you wish to remove facts from the wiki because you're stubborn and don't wish to see information people may consider to harm thott on the wiki? so much for the wiki being neutral huh? |
| 17:29.32 | sancus | allakhazam himself said thottbot and allakhazam were going to become part of one network, and he publically stated that they were bought by IGE |
| 17:29.47 | Zeal | indeed, that's true sancus. |
| 17:29.58 | sancus | ofc it never happened |
| 17:30.01 | Gryphen | the reason was to harm, not to be neutral |
| 17:30.01 | sancus | because IGE is fucking incompetent |
| 17:30.32 | Zeal | it's not the fault on the wiki or the contributer that the facts harm. |
| 17:30.47 | Zeal | so don't spin that. |
| 17:30.54 | sancus | what article are you even talking about |
| 17:30.58 | Gryphen | ugh, fact |
| 17:31.01 | Zeal | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Thottbot&curid=17086&diff=466982&oldid=465960&rcid=377460 |
| 17:36.59 | Zeal | adys |
| 17:37.04 | Kirkburn|afk | It's info the wiki doesn't need to carry |
| 17:37.06 | Adys | dingdingding |
| 17:37.12 | Zeal | lol |
| 17:37.16 | Zeal | see the new icon list? |
| 17:37.20 | Kirkburn|afk | And the moment we do carry it, all hell will break loose |
| 17:37.22 | Adys | yeah |
| 17:37.24 | Zeal | Kirkburn|afk, why not? |
| 17:37.33 | Zeal | how so? |
| 17:37.51 | Zeal | not like we're telling people something new. |
| 17:37.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Just people making silly edits, opinions, edit wars, etc |
| 17:38.05 | Kirkburn|afk | The info really isn't as clear cut as it's written there |
| 17:38.10 | Zeal | and? we have that for everything we carry. |
| 17:38.33 | Zeal | oh, that info written there is very clear cut, it's lacking most of the futher evidence and statements. |
| 17:39.07 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm not saying the info isn't clear cut, I'm saying the relationship is not that clear cut |
| 17:40.06 | sancus | all you really need to cite is http://www.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=3;mid=114668646932202500;page=1 |
| 17:40.08 | Zeal | but what is written is fact, theres no reason to hide it. |
| 17:40.26 | sancus | where allakhazam says that a) he's owned by the parent company of IGE and b) thottbot is part of their new megasite |
| 17:40.37 | sancus | not sure how it can get any more clear cut than that |
| 17:41.04 | Zeal | lol |
| 17:42.01 | Kirkburn|afk | And can anyone actually point to me to edvidence this stuff has actually occured? |
| 17:42.09 | Zeal | and even if there was speculative info, i see it no different than handling lore speculation, especially in the case of how MoM is currently hadnling controversy. If we followed what you're saying, then all that controversy should be removed. |
| 17:42.31 | Zeal | the who info, the fact it was reported on, the fact alla have said it. |
| 17:42.35 | Zeal | *whois |
| 17:42.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Zam.com doesn't even work |
| 17:42.42 | Gryphen | whois is nothing |
| 17:42.47 | Zeal | wohis is plenty. |
| 17:42.50 | Zeal | *whois |
| 17:43.02 | Gryphen | tell me who owns sofast racing inc located at sofastracing.cmo |
| 17:43.03 | Gryphen | com |
| 17:43.10 | sancus | zam.com isnt up yet(if it ever will be) |
| 17:43.19 | sancus | but ogaming has posts talking about joining it too |
| 17:43.27 | Zeal | gryphen, do i care. it's not about ownership directly, stop arguing that point. |
| 17:43.39 | Kirkburn|afk | What I'm saying is, that there's little hard evidence to actually show that the changes occured |
| 17:43.50 | sancus | er |
| 17:43.53 | sancus | the changes havent occurred, obviously |
| 17:43.56 | Zeal | in a virtual word, there is never hard evidence |
| 17:43.56 | sancus | who knows if they ever will |
| 17:44.04 | sancus | that doesn't really mean anything |
| 17:44.07 | Zeal | you take what the companies say of themselves as fact. |
| 17:44.07 | Gryphen | pr is evidence |
| 17:46.49 | Zeal | anyways, atm, what i said to ragestorm in mistake on that lore controversy issue, now applies to both of you : / |
| 17:47.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, and that is? |
| 17:48.27 | Zeal | i'd have to go check, lol. |
| 17:50.51 | Zeal | "There is no need, ever, for controversy to stand in the way of the facts. You're caving into user preasure at the cost of integrity of articles. This is extremly bad practice for an admin, and if you maintain it, i'm officially requesting you step down or be removed as bookkeeper admin. And yes, i am telling you how to do your job, you apparently need to be told." *-bookkeeper. Though the likely hood of that is what, 0.0001%? |
| 17:52.26 | Kirkburn|afk | I would allow it back if it was cited. Note that the Thottbot page isn't even about the website |
| 17:53.10 | Zeal | that is true. |
| 17:53.35 | Zeal | it does need to be cited, and it should really be on an article about the site. |
| 17:54.07 | Kirkburn|afk | I think it is quite obvious the original intention of the edits was to discredit thott and alla, whilst promoting Wowhead, whether or not the info was true. |
| 17:54.11 | Zeal | cos i've not seen anything say they own all of thottbot's assests, namely it's addon. |
| 17:55.06 | Zeal | i agree with that kirkburn, i just feel gryphen went about it well. He could have asked for a fact check, could have cited it himself, and should have removed the links to the others. |
| 17:55.30 | Zeal | *didn't go about it. |
| 17:56.00 | Gryphen | i viewed the reason to defame, what admin doesnt remove defametory content? |
| 17:56.12 | Gryphen | user* |
| 17:56.22 | sancus | the inherent concept that the ownership of thottbot is defamatory is an opinion itself |
| 17:56.51 | Zeal | theres defame as the reason, and theres defametory content. they're not the same. |
| 17:57.10 | sancus | personally, people who dislike IGE because of the business they're in annoy me and I tend to dismiss them out of hand. |
| 17:57.17 | Gryphen | it was obviously the reason viewing the previous contributions |
| 17:57.26 | sancus | sure |
| 17:57.36 | sancus | but it didn't seem to be worded in a defamatory way to me, it was quite specific |
| 17:57.55 | sancus | association with IGE, inherently, isnt defamatory |
| 17:58.11 | Kirkburn|afk | The intention was possibly defamatory, but yes, the wording wasn't |
| 17:58.25 | Zeal | i think the way it was layed out was clear it was used to defame. but that could have been rectified. |
| 17:58.40 | sancus | Well I'm sure I could edit it back in with a non-defamatory intention if you like :P |
| 17:58.53 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 17:58.57 | Zeal | and cited ;) |
| 17:59.50 | sancus | none of those articles are very good |
| 17:59.53 | Zeal | would be nice to get the page split. |
| 18:00.04 | sancus | it's been years since anyone actually used the add-on for the majority of their data, for one thing :P |
| 18:00.12 | Zeal | disambig would be an idea. |
| 18:00.24 | Gryphen | 3 sentances on one page, 3 more on another, great content for 2 articles |
| 18:00.25 | sancus | everyone uses dbc parsing now |
| 18:00.33 | sancus | (and has forever) |
| 18:00.46 | Zeal | oh i forgot, people hate small articles ¬_¬ |
| 18:01.05 | sancus | well, there could be more detail |
| 18:01.09 | Kirkburn|afk | The Thottbot article is about the addon |
| 18:01.21 | Kirkburn|afk | (thus the additon was inappropriate) |
| 18:01.32 | Zeal | i know, suggesting thottbot be disambiged. |
| 18:01.34 | Kirkburn|afk | The Alla article is about the website, so it was appropriate |
| 18:01.56 | sancus | yeah |
| 18:02.03 | sancus | I was referring to the alla article, specifically |
| 18:02.05 | sancus | but honestly |
| 18:02.18 | sancus | that doesnt make much sense either, that one is about the addon and one is about the site |
| 18:02.21 | Zeal | either have Thottbot be a disambig page for the addon and for the site. or have Thottbot for the site and link off to the addon through disambig. |
| 18:02.31 | Kirkburn|afk | sancus, because Thottbot is included in Cosmos |
| 18:02.43 | Kirkburn|afk | The addon is the more important page |
| 18:02.45 | sancus | I'd think thottbot the site and the add-on should be one article |
| 18:02.48 | Gryphen | Thottbot is the name of an addon and was documented as such like all cosmos addons |
| 18:02.52 | Zeal | or i guess we could have thottbot.com |
| 18:03.09 | sancus | the site and the add-on arent different enough to merit two seperate articles |
| 18:03.15 | Zeal | how'd i know you'd say that gryphen >_> |
| 18:03.16 | Kirkburn|afk | Same as sancus |
| 18:03.18 | sancus | thottbot the addon has no relevance or use without the site |
| 18:03.23 | Kirkburn|afk | Indeed |
| 18:03.31 | Zeal | that's not true |
| 18:03.39 | sancus | how not |
| 18:03.44 | sancus | its entire purpose is to feed data to the site |
| 18:03.45 | Zeal | we've just argued over such a case where it is clearly differen;t |
| 18:03.56 | sancus | all it is is a data feeder for the site :P |
| 18:04.04 | Kirkburn|afk | It's like Wowreader for Alaa |
| 18:04.06 | Gryphen | not entirely, it does show loc under minimap and gcinfo :) |
| 18:04.08 | Kirkburn|afk | *Alla |
| 18:04.18 | Gryphen | it could be used standalone for those, and often is |
| 18:04.22 | sancus | yea ok :P |
| 18:04.24 | Zeal | thottbot the addon deserves it's own article. |
| 18:04.27 | Gryphen | judging by cosmos support |
| 18:04.33 | sancus | Why does it deserve its own article? |
| 18:05.09 | Adys | just put both the addon and site article on the same page |
| 18:05.12 | Adys | this shouldnt be disambig'd |
| 18:05.15 | Adys | honestly |
| 18:05.27 | Gryphen | i think the article is fine as it is imho |
| 18:05.28 | Kirkburn|afk | AddOn first section, website second |
| 18:05.28 | Zeal | as it's different fro mthe site, and addon is not a site. there is plenty of addon related info to document that isn't relevent tothe site and vice versa |
| 18:05.37 | sancus | eh |
| 18:05.44 | Adys | ppl who dont know what Thottbot is will search info about the site |
| 18:06.23 | Zeal | well in that case, the argument that the edit didn't belong on the page is dead. |
| 18:06.35 | sancus | it is |
| 18:06.47 | sancus | as for the seperate articles argument |
| 18:06.58 | sancus | those articles should probably stop sucking if they're going to be their own entities |
| 18:06.58 | Zeal | which makes me wonder where Kirkburn|afk was coming from if he's in agreement with merging. |
| 18:07.17 | Adys | no, the edit should not be on the wiki at all |
| 18:07.19 | Kirkburn|afk | Because it's very hard to take sides |
| 18:07.27 | Zeal | lol |
| 18:07.28 | Adys | whichever page its on, we are neutral and should stay as such |
| 18:07.36 | sancus | been over this, adys, scrollback :P |
| 18:07.40 | sancus | its neutral to include it |
| 18:07.45 | Kirkburn|afk | I can see reasons for keeping the info, I can see reasons for need keeping it, I can see reasons for splitting the page and not splitting the page |
| 18:07.46 | Adys | bah |
| 18:07.48 | Zeal | the information in the edit was neutral adys. |
| 18:07.52 | Kirkburn|afk | s/need/not/ |
| 18:08.00 | sancus | I can see reasons for splitting it, too |
| 18:08.10 | sancus | but not if the article is two sentences about the add-on, and the site article is also two sentences. |
| 18:08.24 | sancus | and ffs |
| 18:08.34 | Zeal | well atm, if you take everything on the page, that's more than two sentances on the addon. |
| 18:08.44 | Zeal | and we can easily make up more thna two sentances for the site. |
| 18:08.59 | sancus | Thottbot's counterpart to WoWreader is Cosmos. <- lol |
| 18:09.11 | Zeal | :s |
| 18:09.47 | Zeal | thought thottbot's counterpart to wowreader is thottbot. Cosmos just happens to include it. |
| 18:09.51 | Zeal | heh |
| 18:10.14 | Gryphen | none need to mention each other imho |
| 18:10.25 | Gryphen | if they cant stand on their own... |
| 18:10.53 | sancus | I fixed that |
| 18:10.57 | Kirkburn|afk | A thought to discuss: we're a website dedicated to the Warcraft Universe. Are the business dealings really relevant? Wikipedia perhaps - but us? |
| 18:11.26 | Gryphen | its not productive imho |
| 18:11.57 | sancus | I think they're relevant, yes |
| 18:12.14 | Kirkburn|afk | This is the kind of problem I hate - I can't use diplomacy to form a solution everyone is happy with :/ |
| 18:12.15 | sancus | I don't think you could write an article about Blizzard without talking about Vivend |
| 18:12.19 | sancus | er Vivendi |
| 18:12.32 | Zeal | imo it's relevent to wow player's interest and common practices whiel playing the game. |
| 18:12.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Would it not be more appropriate to link offsite for the info? |
| 18:12.54 | Zeal | so thatm akes it worth being documented on. |
| 18:13.05 | sancus | Link the corpnews article :P |
| 18:13.09 | Kirkburn|afk | e.g. give a link to http://wow.azzor.com/445/truth_about_IGE.php on the Alla site, without pasting lots of it |
| 18:13.52 | Zeal | don't we favour internal over external on the wiki? |
| 18:14.07 | Kirkburn|afk | For actual Warcraft info, yes |
| 18:14.25 | Kirkburn|afk | If we favoured internal all the time, we would be wikipedia |
| 18:14.31 | Kirkburn|afk | There's a limit |
| 18:14.35 | sancus | kirkburn is obviously being paid off by ige |
| 18:14.38 | Zeal | imo, i'd rather keep users on the wiki and make sure the information we're providing thme is good, accurate, and nuetral. rather than risk the oposite with external links. |
| 18:14.47 | sancus | DOWN WITH THE RMT CONSPIRACY |
| 18:14.48 | sancus | or something |
| 18:14.51 | Zeal | lol sancus. |
| 18:15.11 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, the external links is where the info comes from |
| 18:15.18 | Zeal | the limit for me, is when it stops be relevent to warcraft and the usage around it. |
| 18:15.26 | sancus | Actually, I'd be inclined to include it just because some people think it's controversial. |
| 18:15.31 | Zeal | i know, but they don't always present it well. |
| 18:15.35 | Kirkburn|afk | There's no definitive article which tells us 'the truth' |
| 18:16.03 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm suggesting having a short sentence on it, and links to offsite articles |
| 18:16.11 | sancus | seems fine to me |
| 18:16.12 | Kirkburn|afk | That way people won't start debating it on the wiki |
| 18:16.33 | sancus | you dont need a detailed explanation at how you arrived at the fact that they're owned by X company |
| 18:16.35 | Zeal | theres lots of facts in external links, but there is often bias and lack of a complete story. |
| 18:16.41 | sancus | let the cited sites speak for themselves |
| 18:16.59 | sancus | but um |
| 18:17.06 | sancus | isnt the edit only like one sentence as-is in the first place |
| 18:17.18 | Zeal | two :P |
| 18:17.20 | Zeal | hehe |
| 18:18.10 | sancus | yeah |
| 18:18.25 | sancus | it doesn't need its own company profile heading, either |
| 18:18.26 | Adys | zeal |
| 18:18.29 | Kirkburn|afk | Btw, the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGE |
| 18:18.33 | sancus | Or if it does, there needs to be a whole lot mor written about the company |
| 18:18.35 | Adys | how is IGE relevant to Warcraft at all? |
| 18:18.44 | Gryphen | gold sales |
| 18:18.55 | Adys | Yes, but hows that relevant to warcraft? |
| 18:19.29 | Gryphen | sorry, relavent = have connection |
| 18:19.35 | Adys | thats like saying we need an article about Vélizy |
| 18:19.38 | Gryphen | mean a different word? |
| 18:19.38 | Zeal | i think that heading was used to try and seperate the addon with stuff about the company, that's all. if it was an article about the site, it wouldn't be needed. |
| 18:19.54 | Zeal | whats that adys? :P |
| 18:20.11 | Adys | a town in france, where Blizzard has their european HQ more or less |
| 18:20.23 | Adys | no idea how its called in english so dont blame me |
| 18:20.32 | sancus | the problem with that is that euros live there so no one cares inherently |
| 18:20.36 | sancus | j/k ;p |
| 18:20.40 | Adys | >< |
| 18:20.53 | sancus | IGE's almost not relevant |
| 18:20.57 | Zeal | and i don't beleive i made any mention of IGE being relevent, although it is. Thottbot and other sites are relevent, IGE merely comes in as it's about them. |
| 18:20.59 | Kirkburn|afk | Amazingly, we've never had an article called IGE, and I hope it stays that way |
| 18:21.02 | sancus | you could just saw thottbot is owned by RPG Holdings LLC |
| 18:21.06 | sancus | and leave it at that |
| 18:21.13 | sancus | if people want to dig in the cites, they're welcome to |
| 18:21.21 | Kirkburn|afk | sancus, that would be better imo |
| 18:21.30 | Zeal | i agree, that's acceptable. |
| 18:21.34 | Adys | lets say we dont need an article about some website called gmworksomething because they sell warcraft gold too, ok? |
| 18:21.41 | sancus | do that |
| 18:21.43 | Gryphen | say who wowhead is owned by |
| 18:21.48 | Kirkburn|afk | IGN, no? |
| 18:21.49 | Gryphen | and all the others |
| 18:21.54 | sancus | Adys: No, because they aren't associated with a major WoW db ;) |
| 18:22.07 | Adys | yes but thats not the point |
| 18:22.29 | Zeal | the only reason i would have against gold seeling sites being documented is Blizzard's policy on it. if we wish to follow that, as i thought we did, then it's not an issue. |
| 18:22.37 | sancus | Adys: Sure is the point |
| 18:22.37 | Gryphen | why do we need to educate people who know nothing about gold sales where to go to get gold |
| 18:22.48 | Adys | what gryph said. |
| 18:23.01 | sancus | um |
| 18:23.06 | Adys | its anyways not technically legal, whatever blizzard does against it |
| 18:23.09 | Adys | so its DNP content |
| 18:23.10 | sancus | thats nonsensical |
| 18:23.21 | sancus | That's false, Adys. |
| 18:23.36 | Zeal | sancus, don't start this again -_- |
| 18:23.38 | sancus | It's a grey area. |
| 18:24.03 | Adys | Sancus, really whatever blizzard does against it in the wiki its just DNP |
| 18:24.14 | sancus | I have NFC what DNP is |
| 18:24.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Do Not Post |
| 18:24.25 | Adys | in short we can say hacks = dnp, gold/account selling = DNP, cheats = DNP |
| 18:24.26 | Gryphen | do not post |
| 18:24.30 | sancus | um |
| 18:24.31 | Adys | and do not post |
| 18:24.42 | Zeal | Porn = DNP? :p |
| 18:24.47 | Adys | eventually |
| 18:24.50 | sancus | Where's it say that it's DNP? |
| 18:24.59 | Kirkburn|afk | Anything against rules Blizzard sets down is do not post, i.e. exploits, how to get gold, etc |
| 18:25.04 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/WW:DNP |
| 18:25.16 | sancus | jesus |
| 18:25.34 | sancus | Well, I won't state my opinion of that, but in any case |
| 18:25.58 | sancus | Stating the ownership of Thottbot/Allakhazam does not directly point anyone to where to get gold, since the ownership company isn't a gold selling company. |
| 18:26.06 | sancus | So that argument won't get you anywhere. |
| 18:26.16 | Adys | yes but keep it to that |
| 18:26.21 | Adys | and keep it external too |
| 18:26.28 | Kirkburn|afk | The earlier version essentially pointed to IGE, but yes the short version wouldn't |
| 18:26.45 | sancus | I already agreed to sacrifice the IGE part of the edit :P |
| 18:27.10 | Kirkburn|afk | You can't guarantee everyone reads every line in here =) |
| 18:27.15 | Gryphen | still think if you are going to put their owners, should be done for all fansite articles |
| 18:28.20 | Zeal | however, is it ok, to have (possibly under it's own heading in the article), something like "<site> has come under controversy for being associate with a gold selling company. [<link to w/e source]" ? |
| 18:28.31 | Zeal | *associated |
| 18:28.57 | Gryphen | so people can go, ooh gold selling where do i go to get gold? |
| 18:29.06 | Zeal | hardly? |
| 18:29.25 | sancus | it should be done for all fansite articles, sure |
| 18:29.28 | Zeal | in no way does that imply that. |
| 18:29.35 | sancus | so put in that wowhead is owned by IGN if there's some cite for that |
| 18:29.43 | sancus | I know nothing about wowhead |
| 18:29.50 | Zeal | heh. |
| 18:29.56 | sancus | (I hate IGN a lot more than IGE, too!) |
| 18:29.59 | Gryphen | it doesnt, but you assume everyone knows about gold selling and it wont sparks a noobs interest to find out more about buying gold for himself |
| 18:30.08 | sancus | thats irrelevant |
| 18:30.11 | sancus | you're going too far |
| 18:30.19 | Gryphen | so is mentioning it |
| 18:30.25 | sancus | not linking gold selling sites is one thing, not even skirting around the edges of mentioning their very existence is absurd |
| 18:30.31 | sancus | and indefensible |
| 18:30.43 | Zeal | what sancus said.. |
| 18:30.51 | Gryphen | absurd to you |
| 18:31.03 | Gryphen | i dont think so, so dont tell me it is |
| 18:31.05 | sancus | correct |
| 18:31.08 | Gryphen | that is your opinion |
| 18:31.21 | Tepetkhet | My former GM bought gold. |
| 18:31.22 | *** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 18:31.22 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 18:31.24 | sancus | heh |
| 18:31.37 | Tuqui-tuqui | 0.o |
| 18:31.38 | Tepetkhet | Yet another reason he's my Former GM. |
| 18:31.42 | sancus | I've never bought gold |
| 18:31.44 | sancus | mainly because its overpriced |
| 18:31.49 | sancus | horribly so in fact :/ |
| 18:32.04 | Gryphen | my friends have, but they are no further in the game than me, seems pointless |
| 18:32.10 | sancus | gold is worthless in WoW |
| 18:32.19 | sancus | thats why I think its funny there's such a controversy around gold selling |
| 18:32.28 | sancus | when in fact all the meaningful progression involves bop things that can't be bought with gold |
| 18:32.37 | Tepetkhet | It's not worthless. |
| 18:32.43 | Zeal | i've known people by association, some in my guild (kicked out when i found out), some in firend' guild. |
| 18:32.43 | sancus | It is worthless |
| 18:32.48 | sancus | you can't buy anything useful for it |
| 18:32.53 | Tepetkhet | Repairs cost money. |
| 18:32.58 | sancus | err |
| 18:33.00 | Tepetkhet | Mats cost money. |
| 18:33.02 | Zeal | i just find it amusing when they vanish after a while, heh. |
| 18:33.03 | Tepetkhet | Potions cost money. |
| 18:33.07 | sancus | yes |
| 18:33.13 | Tepetkhet | Raiding is a gold sink. |
| 18:33.14 | Kandastra | mats cost time |
| 18:33.17 | sancus | if you say so |
| 18:33.24 | Tepetkhet | I do. |
| 18:33.34 | Tepetkhet | I could barely afford to stay afloat when I was raiding. |
| 18:33.42 | sancus | hate to say it, but you were doing something wrong |
| 18:33.48 | Gryphen | so end-game raids are diff than other raids? |
| 18:33.56 | sancus | I only logged in for raids and I had over 4000g when BC released :P |
| 18:34.00 | Gryphen | you dont earn enough in loot to cover the cost of the raid? |
| 18:34.09 | sancus | depends how competent your guild is |
| 18:34.25 | sancus | also, at how good you are at managing your finances |
| 18:34.38 | sancus | you'll go negative cashflow at the start of a raid, then go positive by the end of it, generally |
| 18:35.19 | sancus | I was net positive in BWL and AQ |
| 18:35.25 | *** join/#wowwiki tliff (n=tliff@W3442.w.pppool.de) |
| 18:35.28 | sancus | net negative in naxx, because we quit before it was on farm |
| 18:36.03 | sancus | healers and tanks tend to have higher expenses than Mages, though |
| 18:36.43 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Server:Silver_Hand/Ninja_Looters - go vote |
| 18:39.19 | Kirkburn|afk | So basically, I can only really see one way this can actually be resolved: we don't cover the business dealing of websites. We cover what they offer and that's it. |
| 18:41.21 | Loxara | I have a macro question if anyone can help me out. Is this the right place to ask such questions? |
| 18:41.36 | Adys | Yeah can always ask |
| 18:41.57 | Adys | depends what kind of macros :P |
| 18:42.00 | Adys | but sure |
| 18:42.02 | Tepetkhet | Okay, we were just starting to raid, folks. |
| 18:42.09 | Loxara | Well, I was wondering if something like this is possible. I know this code is broken, but you get the idea |
| 18:42.21 | Tepetkhet | ZG and AQ20. Working our way through MC. |
| 18:42.25 | Loxara | "/run p="player" m=1000 if UnitMana(p) < m then |
| 18:42.33 | Tepetkhet | We had less than 40 people raiding usually. |
| 18:42.43 | Tepetkhet | So multiple wipes = high repair and mat bills. |
| 18:42.57 | Tepetkhet | Items? We didn't get a whole lot of drops to sell. |
| 18:43.01 | Loxara | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.03 | Tepetkhet | We were equipping the guildies. |
| 18:43.06 | Loxara | ok, here it is: |
| 18:43.07 | Loxara | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.08 | Loxara | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.08 | Loxara | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.15 | Zeal | i don't agree kirkburn, not as simply as that. |
| 18:43.33 | Adys | its definetly possibly |
| 18:43.35 | Adys | possible* |
| 18:43.56 | Loxara | i.e. based on my toons health/mana cast a spell |
| 18:44.16 | Zeal | ffs.. i need to fix delete. |
| 18:44.22 | Adys | yes you do zeal :P |
| 18:44.27 | Adys | check that |
| 18:44.28 | Zeal | *vote |
| 18:44.55 | Loxara | guess I'll just have to try it out when I get home... |
| 18:45.23 | Tepetkhet | Lava cores and core leather and the like went towards crafting our FR gear. |
| 18:45.24 | Zeal | first i need to figure out wtf is wrong with it.. |
| 18:45.28 | Tepetkhet | So we didn't have that to sell, either. |
| 18:45.38 | Tepetkhet | So I say again... |
| 18:45.41 | Tepetkhet | Raiding is expensive. |
| 18:45.42 | Tepetkhet | heh |
| 18:45.47 | sancus | it's not in the long term |
| 18:45.50 | sancus | it's just expensive in the short term |
| 18:46.06 | sancus | it's extremely lucrative in the long term, actually, especially if you do stuff like sell bop stuff to people heh |
| 18:46.15 | Adys | Loxara: if you want some help with this kind of macro try and join the wowi-lounge channel |
| 18:46.24 | Tepetkhet | In the long term, maybe. |
| 18:46.25 | Adys | but yeah Im pretty sure its possible |
| 18:46.29 | Tepetkhet | But not when you're just starting out. |
| 18:46.33 | Loxara | Adys: ty |
| 18:46.34 | sancus | our guild bank had well over 50,000 gold before TBC |
| 18:46.34 | Tepetkhet | And are semi-casual. |
| 18:46.46 | sancus | and probably at least 200k worth of mats |
| 18:46.50 | Adys | sancus: and 12 salt shakers!!! |
| 18:46.57 | Adys | sorry, forum joke |
| 18:46.57 | Tepetkhet | My former guild bank had hardly any gold. |
| 18:47.03 | Tepetkhet | GM had to borrow gold to respec. |
| 18:47.04 | Tepetkhet | heh |
| 18:47.10 | sancus | I hardly ever read wow forums :P |
| 18:47.51 | Tepetkhet | The only gold we earned from a raid was from the occasional vendor trash. |
| 18:48.00 | sancus | boe blues sell for a lot |
| 18:48.07 | sancus | also, AQ20 books! |
| 18:48.08 | Tepetkhet | And we gave that to the tanks to help cover their repairs. |
| 18:48.16 | Tepetkhet | Books? Our guildies used them. |
| 18:48.23 | Tepetkhet | BoE blues? Again, our guildies used them. |
| 18:48.23 | Tepetkhet | heh |
| 18:48.33 | sancus | you dont need boe blues if you're getting epics from the raid |
| 18:48.38 | sancus | it sounds like you didnt just do very much raiding |
| 18:48.52 | Zeal | prepare for errors, lol. |
| 18:48.53 | Tepetkhet | Did you see the part where I said we were mostly doing AQ20 and ZG? |
| 18:48.57 | sancus | we raided MC probably 50 or 60 times |
| 18:49.11 | Tepetkhet | And were about halfway through MC? |
| 18:49.13 | Zeal | fucking wiki markup.. |
| 18:49.26 | sancus | god |
| 18:49.26 | Zeal | bloody inserts end tags when it shouldn't >_< |
| 18:49.27 | Tepetkhet | We never even killed Ony. |
| 18:49.29 | sancus | 46 rag kills on record |
| 18:49.29 | Gryphen | yes? |
| 18:49.35 | sancus | no wonder I started to hate the game |
| 18:51.00 | Tepetkhet | Almost all the blues we had drop were BoP. |
| 18:51.15 | Tepetkhet | Same for epics. |
| 18:51.23 | sancus | bracers/belts arent bop in mc |
| 18:51.29 | sancus | those sold quite well for a while |
| 18:51.40 | Tepetkhet | Hah, yeah, except that our guildies needed them. |
| 18:51.42 | sancus | also, all the blues that ragnaros, ony, and nef drop are just world drop |
| 18:51.50 | sancus | yeah, that was the problem |
| 18:51.58 | sancus | Had you kept raiding MC for another 6 months, you would've had tons of excess crap |
| 18:52.01 | Tepetkhet | I only have 4 pieces of Nightslayer. |
| 18:52.05 | Tepetkhet | Yeah, well. |
| 18:52.11 | sancus | and that stuff sells well |
| 18:52.15 | sancus | to the people who cant raid for whatever reason |
| 18:52.18 | Tepetkhet | WoW 2.0 kinda fixed that, didn't it? |
| 18:52.29 | sancus | how so |
| 18:52.32 | Tepetkhet | Hardly anybody wanted to raid after that. |
| 18:52.51 | sancus | oh, we shut down raids long before WoW 2.0 |
| 18:52.51 | Tepetkhet | They wanted to either PvP for their gear instead or just wait for the gear fairy to equip them after the xpac came out. |
| 18:53.08 | sancus | I cant even have imagined raiding mc/bwl as early as august 2k6 |
| 18:53.13 | Tepetkhet | I managed to get 30 people or so together for an Ony raid the Sat. before xpac came out. |
| 18:53.23 | sancus | would be laughable |
| 18:53.28 | Tepetkhet | We got her to 15% I think. |
| 18:53.29 | Tepetkhet | :( |
| 18:54.04 | Tepetkhet | Our server's been around for a year and 3 weeks. |
| 18:54.49 | Tepetkhet | Last guild started raiding end of Sept. I think. Killed Kurinnaxx. Then went to ZG and killed Venoxis. |
| 18:54.57 | Tepetkhet | Everybody has to start somewhere. |
| 18:55.15 | sancus | the gear known to exist in the alpha as early as august was so good |
| 18:55.18 | Tepetkhet | Most people don't just buy the game, log in, get to 60 and hit BWL the next day. |
| 18:55.21 | sancus | that it would be masochistic to raid mc/bwl |
| 18:55.36 | Tepetkhet | Well, maybe it's about more than just the loot to some people. |
| 18:55.43 | Tepetkhet | A sense of accomplishment. |
| 18:56.15 | sancus | That's what I tell people when I'm trying to convince them we need to go back to Naxxramas to get our two Atieshes completed :P |
| 18:56.33 | Tepetkhet | Like...a handful of noobs in mostly greens and some PvP gear went in and killed a boss for the first time. |
| 18:56.49 | Tepetkhet | That's an accomplishment. |
| 18:57.13 | sancus | well, to be fair |
| 18:57.19 | sancus | I'm still a little angry that we didn't kill kel'thuzad before BC |
| 18:57.24 | sancus | even though there was really no other option |
| 18:57.30 | Tepetkhet | Sure, your tier2+ raiders who had been around since beta were farming said boss with only 10 people or whatever. |
| 18:57.32 | sancus | I said something like |
| 18:57.36 | sancus | at one point |
| 18:57.44 | Tepetkhet | Or maybe just 3 warlocks and a hunter. |
| 18:57.45 | Tepetkhet | yeah |
| 18:57.46 | sancus | "We don't want to be that pathetic scrub guild who had to go back at 70 to kill kelthuzad" |
| 18:57.48 | sancus | and here we are :( |
| 18:58.25 | Tepetkhet | Well, at least my former guild got ZG on farm before the xpac. heh |
| 18:58.34 | sancus | we didnt have people showing up for raids |
| 18:58.43 | Tepetkhet | yeah |
| 18:58.44 | sancus | and we didnt want to recruit because we would just have to kick people come tbc due to the raid size drop |
| 18:58.44 | Tepetkhet | ditto |
| 18:58.53 | Tepetkhet | But I was still recruiting. |
| 18:58.54 | sancus | so we decided it was best to just shut down raids |
| 18:58.57 | Tepetkhet | Horde is low on healers. |
| 18:59.02 | sancus | frankly a good decision |
| 18:59.12 | sancus | people needed a break anyway |
| 18:59.22 | Tepetkhet | We were just getting started. |
| 19:00.01 | Tepetkhet | MOMENTUM |
| 19:00.05 | Tepetkhet | meh |
| 19:00.17 | Trae | Is there anything out there that shows you what skills you get at what level when you train? |
| 19:00.27 | Adys | right im off, ill be back later |
| 19:00.51 | sancus | thottbot does |
| 19:00.53 | sancus | dunno about alla/wowhead |
| 19:00.55 | Tepetkhet | I know alla has a list, too |
| 19:01.00 | Kandastra | Trae: addon "Trainer Skills", check curse-gaming.com |
| 19:01.14 | Tepetkhet | At the top of each class forum. |
| 19:01.30 | Tepetkhet | brr |
| 19:01.40 | Tepetkhet | It's cold and I lost weight so my rings are falling off. |
| 19:01.45 | Tepetkhet | Annoying as hell. |
| 19:02.06 | *** part/#wowwiki Loxara (n=Loxara@207.250.72.2) |
| 19:04.40 | Trae | http://fr.thottbot.com/?sp=34433 |
| 19:04.42 | Trae | whoa |
| 19:04.49 | Trae | does this mean I get a shadowfiend? |
| 19:04.54 | Trae | I thought they pulled those in BC |
| 19:05.08 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-20-184.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:05.51 | Zeal | bah, fixed the voting stuff. |
| 19:05.58 | Zeal | stupid wiki.. |
| 19:06.19 | Tuqui-tuqui | yeah >:{ |
| 19:06.47 | sancus | priests get shadowfiend, yes |
| 19:06.50 | Zeal | i know the shadow fiend icon still exists :s |
| 19:07.30 | sancus | what was taken out in beta |
| 19:07.35 | sancus | was the stupid thing that summoned 3 shades |
| 19:07.53 | Zeal | ah, yes. |
| 19:07.54 | sancus | maybe in alpha, I dont remember |
| 19:09.33 | Kirkburn|afk | Uh, VV reinstated the old version |
| 19:09.57 | Kirkburn|afk | I guess I'll be editing it again |
| 19:10.02 | Zeal | lol |
| 19:10.11 | *** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.163) |
| 19:10.20 | Zeal | lo amro |
| 19:10.33 | amro | hey |
| 19:11.14 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.wowwiki.com/Thottbot |
| 19:12.10 | Zeal | wait kirkburn what? he did what we were planning, left it as RPG holdings and cited O_o |
| 19:12.19 | Zeal | oh i see. moved it... |
| 19:12.36 | Zeal | np :) |
| 19:12.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Hopefully that is okay with everyone? |
| 19:13.03 | sancus | fine with me |
| 19:13.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Also removed the competing websites links as those were quite obviously an attempt to get a link to Wowhead on them |
| 19:13.58 | Zeal | indeed. Though i still think the controversy is worth documenting, i just don't care about thottbot enough to do it. |
| 19:15.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Glad that's over then |
| 19:15.57 | Zeal | doubt it :P |
| 19:16.25 | Zeal | fr.thottbot.com is supposed to be in french? :S |
| 19:16.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Never heard of it |
| 19:16.57 | Zeal | well it was more to Thrae :P |
| 19:17.00 | Gryphen | fr and de were supposed to be but dont think it was ever fully realized |
| 19:17.20 | Zeal | i see |
| 19:18.21 | Kandastra | at some point they started throwing german collected data into the .com database |
| 19:18.26 | Kandastra | that was some chaos |
| 19:18.52 | Kandastra | now that i think about it, french data too |
| 19:18.52 | Zeal | Gryphen, were those thottbot commands supposed to be ina box? :S |
| 19:19.08 | Gryphen | nope, i just left it that way |
| 19:19.10 | Gryphen | yes |
| 19:19.18 | Zeal | interesting answer, lol. |
| 19:19.18 | Gryphen | make it better if you want, but that is how i did it |
| 19:19.35 | Trae | haha |
| 19:19.42 | Trae | wtf does "World Server is Down" mean? |
| 19:19.59 | Gryphen | its a guild on my server :) |
| 19:19.59 | tliff | that means the part of the world you're trying to login is down |
| 19:20.30 | Kandastra | it means a gm used the "end of the world" spell ^^ |
| 19:20.39 | Zeal | rofl |
| 19:20.49 | Zeal | it means you fall in the sea if you're on a zep :P |
| 19:21.22 | Kandastra | it's always nice when you're in an instance and suddenly half your guild loggs off at the same time |
| 19:21.29 | Zeal | lol |
| 19:21.36 | Kandastra | "guys? let's take our time in here, we won't be going anywhere soon" |
| 19:21.41 | Tepetkhet | And you cling to the instance... |
| 19:21.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, it's not just Appendix 3? |
| 19:21.44 | Tepetkhet | And hope nobody dies. |
| 19:21.52 | *** part/#wowwiki xaque (n=xaque@216.141.24.7) |
| 19:22.10 | Kandastra | "aww, you died. well, see ya tomorrow" ^^ |
| 19:22.25 | Tepetkhet | heh |
| 19:22.26 | Tepetkhet | Yeah. |
| 19:23.07 | Zeal | MoM refrences those creatuures from Appendix3 through out it. Also several of those creatures have later been added to existing sources, and even direct copies of Appendix3 in other sources as canon. |
| 19:23.14 | Zeal | *creatures. |
| 19:24.04 | Kirkburn|afk | That's not the problem |
| 19:24.06 | Zeal | So if Appendix3 is not cannon, MoM isn't, and neither is any future source of their information. |
| 19:24.16 | Kirkburn|afk | That's just silly, Zeal |
| 19:24.26 | Zeal | no it's not. |
| 19:24.46 | Zeal | otherwise you're askign the wiki to make a descision what is and isn't canon. |
| 19:24.48 | Kirkburn|afk | If something I referenced later on, then yes, of course it's now 'confirmed' |
| 19:25.01 | Zeal | we don't know that. |
| 19:25.08 | Zeal | even the author the book said it |
| 19:25.10 | Kirkburn|afk | My template did not make that decision! |
| 19:25.26 | Zeal | no, but it's sating that it's only infor in appendix3 |
| 19:25.35 | Zeal | when it's infact info in all of MoM and other sources. |
| 19:25.49 | Kirkburn|afk | What? No |
| 19:26.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Appendix 3 specifically has the disclaimer I wrote |
| 19:26.23 | Zeal | That disclaimer needs to be written as MoM |
| 19:26.25 | Zeal | not appendix 3 |
| 19:26.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Why? Only A3 has the disclaimer |
| 19:27.06 | Zeal | yet the authors put that information in more than just a3. |
| 19:27.34 | Kirkburn|afk | Do either of us have a copy of MoM |
| 19:27.44 | Zeal | the author of MoM said that the information should not have been in other sources, and if it is, then it is likely an error. |
| 19:28.31 | Zeal | no, but, desptire Baggins leading me astray before, i trust what he's said. |
| 19:28.36 | Zeal | *despite |
| 19:28.38 | Kirkburn|afk | The problem people have is with articles like Leprechauns |
| 19:29.32 | Kirkburn|afk | That's only ever been in A3 |
| 19:29.38 | Kirkburn|afk | I'm just saying that we should make it clear to people where the info comes from |
| 19:30.17 | Zeal | so you want to go through MoM, find what a3 monsters are refrenced, and also all other soruces nad find what sources have refrenced or expanded on them and apply a heading to any article that doesn't fall into that to say it's not canon? because that's what you're suggesting. |
| 19:30.24 | Kirkburn|afk | If we all had copies of MoM this would probably have been sorted out a long time ago ^^ |
| 19:30.30 | Tepetkhet | MoM? |
| 19:30.35 | Zeal | manual of monsters |
| 19:30.47 | Zeal | it's clear enough as it is Kirkburn|afk |
| 19:30.50 | Tepetkhet | ah |
| 19:30.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, I really don't think it's that many |
| 19:30.53 | Tepetkhet | uh |
| 19:31.02 | Zeal | MoM states the information about Appendix3, that's enough. |
| 19:31.03 | Kirkburn|afk | But I can't say for certain, of course |
| 19:31.18 | Zeal | it's not an issue of how many, it's an issue of having to make that judgement. |
| 19:31.30 | Tepetkhet | I just have that BC Strategy Guide thing. |
| 19:31.40 | Zeal | you're being forced to place a disclaimer on something you can't make judgement on. |
| 19:31.45 | Tepetkhet | Kinda shitty layout. |
| 19:32.15 | Zeal | hm.. Tepetkhet, is there a timeline in it? |
| 19:34.13 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, can you please not return in kind if someone insults you? |
| 19:34.16 | Tepetkhet | hm |
| 19:34.47 | Kirkburn|afk | What does annoy me is that Kakwakas is complaining, but not suggesting what he wants us to do about it |
| 19:34.49 | Zeal | all that needs to be done is say "this refrences MoM", on MoM article "<appendix 3 disclaimer>" and "controversy over MoM exists, blah blah blah. both sides of the story." |
| 19:35.04 | Kirkburn|afk | Yeah |
| 19:35.52 | Kirkburn|afk | In big red letters, 42pt on the header of every A3 article, thrice ;) In all seriousness, yes that does seem fair to me |
| 19:36.24 | Tepetkhet | Not really a timeline that's clear. |
| 19:36.31 | Tepetkhet | There's crap like... |
| 19:37.06 | Tepetkhet | "Countless centuries ago, ships landed on the shores of Lordaeron. The exiled High Elves, led by Dath'Remar Sunstrider tried to make a new home for themselves." |
| 19:37.47 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, what we do need is a list of A3 articles |
| 19:37.54 | Tepetkhet | blah blah blah "It was during a terrible war with the Amani Trolls that the forces of Quel'Thalas sought aid fromt he human nation of Arathor." |
| 19:37.57 | tliff | sounds like the intro of LotR |
| 19:37.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Not to categorise them, but so that they can all be checked |
| 19:37.58 | *** join/#wowwiki hanzzon (n=per@81-236-217-232-no25.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:38.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Omg, race names capitalised ^^ |
| 19:38.26 | *** part/#wowwiki hanzzon (n=per@81-236-217-232-no25.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:39.13 | Zeal | you want a list but not a category? that seems silly |
| 19:39.13 | Tepetkhet | So not a clear |world created---------|night elves mutate everything-----------|present day kinda thing. |
| 19:40.02 | Zeal | or you mean not with the purpose of categorizing? |
| 19:40.48 | Zeal | well as i've said, it's not just A3, and it's while i want to see Sources: used with categories. |
| 19:40.55 | Zeal | *why i want |
| 19:41.02 | Zeal | along side refrencing ofc. |
| 19:41.12 | Zeal | we do need to get this refrecing and citation stuff sorted out.. |
| 19:42.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Almost finished: http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Manual_of_Style :) |
| 19:42.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, no, no just a list so we can check the articles have the required stuff on them |
| 19:43.10 | Kirkburn|afk | At the moment I have no idea of the full extent of the A3 articles |
| 19:45.05 | Tepetkhet | [14:38] <Kirkburn|afk> Omg, race names capitalised ^^ |
| 19:45.07 | Tepetkhet | Yes... |
| 19:45.25 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-20-184.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:45.26 | Zeal | well in which case, a category would be best. |
| 19:45.28 | Kirkburn|afk | It's not current Blizzard policy :) |
| 19:45.33 | Tepetkhet | Oh? |
| 19:45.43 | Tepetkhet | I hardly noticed. |
| 19:45.49 | Kirkburn|afk | All their latest output uses lower case now |
| 19:45.52 | Zeal | it's not currenty blizzard idocity... |
| 19:45.59 | Zeal | *current |
| 19:46.11 | Tepetkhet | Of course, Blizzard also has some "Demon Hide Spaulers" in the game... |
| 19:46.15 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, a category for A3 articles? |
| 19:46.15 | Tepetkhet | Spaulers. |
| 19:46.22 | Kirkburn|afk | this is true :P |
| 19:46.51 | Tepetkhet | Blizzard must have fired their spellchecker. |
| 19:47.02 | Tepetkhet | The Typo Crusade. |
| 19:47.04 | Tepetkhet | Honestly. |
| 19:47.20 | Zeal | a category for articles that contain A3 creature information, yes. |
| 19:47.33 | Zeal | as you clearly onyl want a temp category, and it done quickly. |
| 19:47.39 | Zeal | so a category would be easier. |
| 19:48.00 | Zeal | i still want self linsk changed.. |
| 19:48.01 | Kirkburn|afk | True |
| 19:48.06 | Zeal | i'm so not ok with it : / |
| 19:48.33 | Kirkburn|afk | But I still don't see what possible benefit it brings? |
| 19:48.52 | Zeal | and i'm pissed off with vv for continuing to change them even after i discussed it with him and he agreed he shouldn't be doing it. |
| 19:49.12 | Zeal | it brings desriable behavior.. |
| 19:49.17 | Kirkburn|afk | I told him to. |
| 19:49.29 | Zeal | what? : / |
| 19:49.32 | Zeal | sigh.. |
| 19:50.06 | Kirkburn|afk | He'd done most articles, and I still can't see the benefits |
| 19:50.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Useful for templates, yes, but for articles? |
| 19:51.01 | Zeal | it's a safety net for article inclusion and moving, it's enforces the correct use of titles, and it's less characters. |
| 19:51.30 | Kirkburn|afk | The "correct use of titles" is debatable |
| 19:51.41 | Zeal | yes, and people aren't, it's jsut been elft dead. |
| 19:51.44 | Kirkburn|afk | Templates are included, not articles |
| 19:52.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Less characters only when the titles matches the article |
| 19:52.24 | Zeal | though i don't feel i have anything left to say other that restate the samething's i've said already, which i undoubtidly will have to do.. |
| 19:52.30 | Zeal | *than |
| 19:52.33 | Kirkburn|afk | So a complete failure for disambiged articles |
| 19:52.45 | Zeal | no? |
| 19:53.59 | sancus | http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/01/30/ebay-some-rmt-is-more-equal-than-other-rmt/ |
| 19:54.14 | Kirkburn|afk | For example [[Despair (RPG)]] - you're saying that the bolded text should be Despair (RPG) ? |
| 19:54.49 | Zeal | no, [[Despair (RPG)|]] |
| 19:55.39 | Zeal | the self-link bolding and parathenesis removal is all there for a reason.. |
| 19:56.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Can I ask, then, why wikipedia uses '''x''' |
| 19:56.49 | Kirkburn|afk | Here's a perfect example of why they use it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralization |
| 19:56.51 | Zeal | guess you weren't around for that discussion? |
| 19:57.19 | Kirkburn|afk | What discussion? |
| 19:57.19 | Zeal | er.. huh? |
| 19:57.28 | Zeal | i wish i knew who it was with.. |
| 19:57.55 | Kirkburn|afk | If they used [[ ]] for all those bolded links, it'd have some silly code |
| 19:58.30 | Kirkburn|afk | What is the 'correct use of titles' according to you? |
| 19:58.54 | Zeal | basically, why wikipedia, well the whole wiki foundation, does not follow their own software functionality, and why jsut because wikipedia does it, doesn't mean we should. It's well know how short-sighted and terrible as decision making they are, the mediawiki software itself is testament to that. |
| 19:59.11 | Zeal | *at |
| 19:59.16 | Kirkburn|afk | As much as I love to hate wikipedia, that's just silly |
| 19:59.32 | Zeal | i still do not follow what you're talking about in that "example" |
| 19:59.39 | Zeal | it's not silly : / |
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| 20:00.03 | Kirkburn|afk | It's like condemning all of Microsoft (as many do), just because you don't like what certain members of the company do |
| 20:00.34 | Kirkburn|afk | Their decision making is perfectly fine, if long and arduous |
| 20:00.39 | Zeal | no, i'm condeming them for what they do as an entity. |
| 20:00.48 | Zeal | i know nothing about the members themselves. |
| 20:01.51 | Zeal | it's not, iirc correctly, isn't it your user page that condems them? :p |
| 20:01.51 | Kirkburn|afk | They do follow their own software functionality - it's used in templates |
| 20:02.06 | Kirkburn|afk | "<Kirkburn|afk> As much as I love to hate wikipedia..." |
| 20:02.16 | Zeal | everything has the potential to be a template. |
| 20:02.25 | Zeal | i know, just saying. |
| 20:02.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, can we stay in reality here? |
| 20:02.49 | Kirkburn|afk | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.56 | Zeal | the fact they even use templates for soem fo the things they do is ridiculous nad messy as it is. |
| 20:03.33 | Zeal | and Kirkburn|afk, can you get off the point of templates as is very minor to the issue at hand? |
| 20:04.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Fine, completely ignoring their use in templates then ... |
| 20:04.37 | Zeal | as to that example, i see what you're refering to, with the names appedended to the artile title also being used as articles titles for that article. That is incorrect usage imo, yes. |
| 20:04.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Articles are rarely, if ever, moved to completely different names. Even if they are, it's one word to change, nothwithstanding when pages are moved much of the text is likely to change anyway. |
| 20:05.03 | Zeal | not ignore it, just stay off it, everyone knows they have benefits to templates, there's nothing to talk about. |
| 20:05.33 | Zeal | Kirkburn|afk, moving is where there is a benefit |
| 20:05.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Very very minor |
| 20:05.57 | Zeal | it disaplys when the user has forgotten to rename the title in the text, if you bold it, it get easily over looked. |
| 20:06.08 | Zeal | *gets |
| 20:06.32 | Zeal | and moving seems to happen a good deal from what i've seen. |
| 20:07.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Move log: http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=move&user=&page= ... about 10-20 a day |
| 20:08.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Most of which would have no effect on the article name |
| 20:08.34 | Kirkburn|afk | And, given the current wiki situation, don't forget the problem with the pseudo namespaces |
| 20:10.29 | Kirkburn|afk | I know there are benefits, but much of the time it's more confusing than simply bolding the article name in the text. If I wanted to deal with the article Blood elf, I would have to deal with the capital letter too |
| 20:15.03 | Zeal | [[<blah>|]] drops both psuedo and real namespaces afaik. |
| 20:16.22 | Zeal | well that's down to the silly decision to use lower case for anything that is in refrenced and used as an article title, which shouldn't be done. They should be capital anyways. But you apprently wish to pay the price of going agaisnt that. |
| 20:16.37 | Zeal | 10-20 a day is a good deal. |
| 20:17.50 | Zeal | and i can see plenty that would require title renames. |
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| 20:21.36 | Zeal | bah, stupid useless log viewer... |
| 20:22.09 | Tuqui-tuqui | hmm... |
| 20:22.16 | Tuqui-tuqui | why is there no L or Q in here? |
| 20:22.41 | Zeal | freenode uses them? |
| 20:22.47 | Tuqui-tuqui | oh wait |
| 20:22.55 | Tuqui-tuqui | sorry |
| 20:22.58 | Tuqui-tuqui | thought this was quakenet :D |
| 20:22.59 | Zeal | lol :P |
| 20:23.01 | Zeal | hehe |
| 20:23.12 | Zeal | <3 L & Q |
| 20:23.17 | Tuqui-tuqui | <3x2 idd |
| 20:23.29 | Zeal | </3 S >_< |
| 20:23.48 | Tuqui-tuqui | ¬.¬ |
| 20:24.04 | Zeal | unless they've fixed it not to count posts across all channels it's in, not per chan.. |
| 20:24.43 | Zeal | basically, if you're in soemthing like 4 chans with S, you do /amsg you get diconnected for spamming.. |
| 20:25.01 | Tuqui-tuqui | no wonder no one has them in their channels |
| 20:25.04 | Tuqui-tuqui | I dont have them in ours |
| 20:25.18 | Tuqui-tuqui | nor does anyone else I frequent in |
| 20:25.48 | Zeal | well i purposely avoided chans with S after it : / |
| 20:25.48 | Zeal | *after i found out. |
| 20:25.48 | Zeal | *the hard way.. lol |
| 20:27.38 | Zeal | prepare for errors :P |
| 20:28.32 | tliff | wowwiki has a problem =/ |
| 20:29.23 | Zeal | indeed, heh |
| 20:29.44 | Zeal | thin kthe problem phase has now ended, back to the slow phase.. |
| 20:31.02 | Zeal | sancus, you still about? |
| 20:33.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, are you seriously suggesting we capitalise blood elf because of mediawiki restriction?s |
| 20:35.00 | Kirkburn|afk | I mean, if you're seriously suggesting we go against the rules of the english language just because they're an article title, you're off your trolley |
| 20:35.27 | Zeal | no medwiki restrictions |
| 20:35.57 | Zeal | in english, refrences to titles are captilized. |
| 20:36.25 | Zeal | and then theres the whole stuff on the race names talk page before. |
| 20:37.01 | Kirkburn|afk | They're not references to the article name, they're words used in a normal sentence |
| 20:37.51 | Kirkburn|afk | Otherwise we get to the point where the first occurence the word in the article name is capitalised and everything else isn't. Doesn't that seem weong to you? |
| 20:37.54 | Zeal | in refrence to a title, not a wiki title, a title. obvious i have a shit understanding of english language practices, at that talk page explained it better. |
| 20:38.11 | Zeal | *-at |
| 20:38.21 | Zeal | nouns, proper nouns or w/e |
| 20:38.29 | Kirkburn|afk | The articles stand on their own right, they are not in reference to the article title |
| 20:38.47 | Zeal | not the article title.. |
| 20:38.50 | Zeal | bleh.. |
| 20:39.13 | Kirkburn|afk | So for example you have an article about 'boars'. You're saying that the word boar should be capitalised when first mentioned |
| 20:40.17 | Kirkburn|afk | Species names are not capitalised, and neither do Blizzard engage in that practise. |
| 20:40.33 | Zeal | in something that is using boars in such a way, where it is not in accordance to the word boars and referers to something else named boards, yes Boars would be capitalized. |
| 20:40.47 | Zeal | ye,s and blizzard are stupid, heh. |
| 20:41.10 | Kirkburn|afk | What? I didn't understand that sentence |
| 20:41.12 | Zeal | same could be said about the english language, but you knew that right? |
| 20:41.40 | Kirkburn|afk | Zeal, we are not here to be radical and start a revolution, okay? :) |
| 20:42.06 | Zeal | i'f i'm talking about boars the oens we know and love, then lower-case. if i'm talking about Boars that are a species of aliens from plent gaborlok then captial. |
| 20:42.09 | Zeal | *planet |
| 20:42.19 | Kirkburn|afk | The former. |
| 20:42.46 | Zeal | oh? |
| 20:42.52 | Kirkburn|afk | Boars are boars are boars. Just because they occur on Azeroth doesn't make them not 'normal' boars. |
| 20:43.11 | Zeal | no? |
| 20:43.25 | Kirkburn|afk | Otherwise we get into the situation where nearly every noun is capitalised because "it's not real" |
| 20:43.29 | Zeal | yet boars and Boars are completely different? |
| 20:43.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Eh? |
| 20:44.03 | Zeal | ignore in the context of warcraft, use my alien example :P |
| 20:44.34 | Zeal | nothin to do with them being real |
| 20:44.37 | Kirkburn|afk | If you're talking about the proper name for something, such as a Rabid Thistle Bear, that's capitalised |
| 20:44.43 | Kirkburn|afk | Bears in general wouldn't be |
| 20:45.15 | Kirkburn|afk | Although, even in that case I'm not certain the 'Bear' bit should be capitalised |
| 20:46.11 | Zeal | ok.. i am more than likely completely off here.. noun = warrior. proper noun = Warrior. former is used in general speaking, in refrences to things like combat and abilities etc. the later is used when refering to the class in warcraft, Warrior. |
| 20:46.22 | Zeal | *completely off with the noun usage |
| 20:46.38 | Zeal | *latter. |
| 20:46.59 | Kirkburn|afk | Sort of like that |
| 20:47.12 | Kirkburn|afk | Capitalise when it's specific to the Warcraft class |
| 20:47.26 | Kirkburn|afk | But lower case when it's just talking about the type of person |
| 20:47.33 | Zeal | yes, indeed. |
| 20:47.52 | Zeal | Brox was a great warrior, but he was not a Warrior. |
| 20:48.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Indeed :) |
| 20:48.11 | Kirkburn|afk | A suppose a good real world example is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Robin |
| 20:48.23 | Kirkburn|afk | It's a thrush, but an American Robin |
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| 20:49.19 | Zeal | aye |
| 20:49.43 | Kirkburn|afk | You learn something new every day - I did not realise I should capitalise Robin |
| 20:49.52 | Zeal | hehe |
| 20:50.29 | Zeal | i would say it's an american robin, and also an American Robin. but you can see whats wrong there ;) |
| 20:50.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Heh |
| 20:51.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Anyways, back to American Dad |
| 20:51.14 | Zeal | lol kk |
| 20:51.32 | Kirkburn|afk | :) Mebbe even do a little levelling later |
| 20:51.36 | Zeal | i'm gunna go take a both. gunna have a nice chicken with cheesy pepper sauce in breadcrumb after :) |
| 20:51.41 | Zeal | *a bath |
| 20:51.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Tasty |
| 20:51.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Enjoy! |
| 20:51.58 | Zeal | bernard matthews ftw :P |
| 20:52.13 | Kirkburn|afk | I might cook myself a garlic kiev :) |
| 20:52.22 | Kirkburn|afk | Somerfield ftw? |
| 20:52.27 | zeal | rofl |
| 20:52.39 | zeal | i'll let you judge ;) |
| 20:52.39 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 20:52.49 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 20:52.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Ttyl |
| 20:55.15 | zeal | indeed, ttyl. oh and i changed the font size for scaled down tooltips, tusva was right, i aciddentally put 0.8em instead of 0.85em (which is what i usually do) before, 0.8 looks nasty, but much nicer now with 0.85 :) |
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| 21:28.10 | Tepetkhet | It's snowing a LOT here. |
| 21:28.15 | Tepetkhet | I'm starting to get a bit concerned. |
| 21:50.42 | Tepetkhet | Gotta go. |
| 21:50.44 | Tepetkhet | Later. |
| 21:50.45 | Tepetkhet | I hope |
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| 22:35.54 | Kirkburn|afk | I know I shouldn't laugh at people, but this humoured me: http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Fansites#Popular_sites_edit_war |
| 22:36.42 | Kirkburn|afk | "I'm sure sites like thott, khaz and wowhead are 20k visitors daily, probably more" |
| 22:37.07 | kasatopia | where in the AH are sockets listed under? |
| 22:38.39 | Kirkburn|afk | Gems, you mean? |
| 22:38.49 | kasatopia | yes |
| 22:39.01 | Kirkburn|afk | They don't have a category |
| 22:39.04 | Kirkburn|afk | Stupid, I know |
| 22:39.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Sec, see if I can help you |
| 22:39.13 | kasatopia | thanks |
| 22:39.30 | Kirkburn|afk | Here are search terms: http://www.wowwiki.com/Jewel |
| 22:40.21 | kasatopia | thank you |
| 22:40.26 | Kirkburn|afk | np |
| 22:48.31 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh crap, I just found something out |
| 22:48.41 | Kirkburn|afk | Marsh Dredgers are elementals |
| 22:51.42 | Kirkburn|afk | hmm, perhaps not so bad |
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