irclog2html for #wowwiki on 20070115

`00:00.22`	`Bagginsww`	`upper case K exists in older material including warcraft 3`
`00:00.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Look it is, it had a giant red banner!`
`00:00.27`	`Kirkburn`	`*at it`
`00:00.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, fair enough :)`
`00:00.43`	`Adys`	`http://www.wowcountdown.com/`
`00:00.43`	`Adys`	`:D`
`00:00.47`	`Adys`	`22 hours left!`
`00:00.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Hobinheim, I should get a new icon though`
`00:01.08`	`Kirkburn`	`lol good point Adys!`
`00:01.21`	`Kirkburn`	`You meant 23, surely?`
`00:01.22`	`Adys`	`godd..`
`00:01.27`	`Adys`	`well yea 23`
`00:01.34`	`Kirkburn`	`24 for me :/`
`00:01.36`	`Bagginsww`	`my typo`
`00:01.38`	`Bagginsww`	`not the books`
`00:01.46`	`Bagginsww`	`its Kaldorei`
`00:01.48`	`Bagginsww`	`in the book`
`00:01.56`	`Kirkburn`	`ta`
`00:03.09`	`Hobinheim`	`oh god hours`
`00:03.11`	`Hobinheim`	`GHHHH`
`00:03.15`	`Hobinheim`	`should i go to gamestop early`
`00:03.23`	`Hobinheim`	`and just chill by the ice cream shop`
`00:03.24`	`Hobinheim`	`and wait...`
`00:03.28`	`Hobinheim`	`i don't even know if they're open midnight`
`00:03.35`	`Bagginsww`	`my gamestop will probably get it in on 17th :p`
`00:03.39`	`Bagginsww`	`if they didn't screw up my preorder`
`00:03.56`	`Hobinheim`	`all list of midnight openings`
`00:03.56`	`Bagginsww`	`agh the pain of worry that I get my self a copy of collector's`
`00:04.04`	`Hobinheim`	`BOO YAH`
`00:04.24`	`Bagginsww`	`so you finished the article?`
`00:04.37`	`Bagginsww`	`*reading`
`00:05.03`	`Hobinheim`	`arg that's not the one i was thinkinof =(`
`00:05.31`	`Bagginsww`	`a friend in compusa told me they don't get any until 17th`
`00:05.35`	`Hobinheim`	`maybe it's not a gamestop...?`
`00:05.39`	`Bagginsww`	`that's when their delivery truck comes`
`00:05.51`	`Bagginsww`	`unless they get it early`
`00:06.11`	`Bagginsww`	`on 15th delivery`
`00:06.21`	`Kirkburn`	`I read most of it, you certainly have a strong enough arguement for the info to be on the wiki, of course`
`00:06.31`	`Hobinheim`	`boo i don't think i have a midnight opening =(`
`00:06.36`	`Bagginsww`	`no one one seems to get mad at mephits LOL`
`00:06.47`	`Bagginsww`	`or stuff I listed on outland, or emerald dream pages`
`00:06.50`	`Kirkburn`	`We don't pick and choose what is the true stuff, Blizz do that.`
`00:06.51`	`Bagginsww`	`or twisting nether`
`00:06.54`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`00:07.05`	`Bagginsww`	`which is why I think "controversy" should be enough`
`00:07.18`	`Bagginsww`	`infact I don't really see there being any "controversy" myself`
`00:07.20`	`Kirkburn`	`Sure`
`00:07.23`	`Bagginsww`	`just pricks who don't like it`
`00:07.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Heh, that makes it controversial enough for them :P`
`00:07.49`	`Bagginsww`	`why should fan opinion be put over blizzard's statement?`
`00:08.02`	`Bagginsww`	`that's why I just ask if they think they are right, to quote one specific valid source`
`00:08.08`	`Bagginsww`	`I asked someone that once`
`00:08.12`	`Zeal`	`<Bagginsww> infact I don't really see there being any "controversy" myself. just pricks who don't like it <-- QFT`
`00:08.13`	`Bagginsww`	`all they could do was rephrase their own opinion`
`00:08.35`	`Bagginsww`	`on why it shouldn't be listed`
`00:08.39`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`00:08.55`	`Kirkburn`	`I do suggest the controversy sections are changed to how I wrote it though, just to defuse people getting silly over it`
`00:09.12`	`Kirkburn`	`It's fun when people bring up the fire naga thing`
`00:09.18`	`Bagginsww`	`well I think to be fare w need a "note this isn't mentioned in warcraft games`
`00:09.20`	`Bagginsww`	`for any article`
`00:09.25`	`Zeal`	`i don't enjoy pandering to idiocy and arrogance..`
`00:09.37`	`Bagginsww`	`like some of the stuff mentioned in novels you won't likely see again`
`00:09.43`	`Bagginsww`	`redwalker clan?`
`00:09.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah I know, but let's not go there =)`
`00:10.24`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Redwalker_Clan`
`00:10.29`	`Zeal`	`and Bagginsww is right, we do it for everything, or not at all. obvious where my vote goes.`
`00:10.29`	`Bagginsww`	`love how fandy stubbed it`
`00:10.42`	`Bagginsww`	`everything must be treated as equal standing`
`00:10.44`	`Bagginsww`	`as blizzard does`
`00:10.53`	`Bagginsww`	`remember that source link I gave you?`
`00:10.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Now, let's not get mised up here`
`00:10.59`	`Bagginsww`	`or quotes by Metzen`
`00:11.07`	`Kirkburn`	`Appendix 3 is the only controversial bit`
`00:11.10`	`Kirkburn`	`*mixed`
`00:11.24`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet its a false controversy really. they don't go after similar material in later books`
`00:11.27`	`Zeal`	`if its just for that, then you need to reword it to apply to it`
`00:11.31`	`Bagginsww`	`chedk out outland`
`00:11.31`	`Kirkburn`	`People accept the novels and most of the RPG books - it's just that section, and the article dealing with it that need it`
`00:11.45`	`Bagginsww`	`ok I"m going ot show you 3 more sources`
`00:11.46`	`Zeal`	`atm, the disclaimer is applicable to all non-game lore.`
`00:11.49`	`Bagginsww`	`that are just llike that portion`
`00:11.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Hrm, I guess you're right`
`00:12.11`	`Bagginsww`	`shadows and light established loads of new creatures`
`00:12.24`	`Bagginsww`	`and refrenced some that were first mentioned in appendix 3 LOL`
`00:12.30`	`Hobinheim`	`you know, having never listened to the alliance music much, theirs is CRAZY like... majestic`
`00:12.35`	`Hobinheim`	`the horde music is so... eh`
`00:12.37`	`Kirkburn`	`Changed again`
`00:12.49`	`Zeal`	`tbh, Kirkburn, soemthing similar to my speculation template would be nice.`
`00:13.05`	`Zeal`	`but change it all to be for "Appendix 3"`
`00:13.16`	`Kirkburn`	`I've made it specific to the article now`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Elemental_Plane`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`click on skywall deephome, firelands and abyssal maw`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`Lighting Sprite`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`Air Mephit`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`Djinni`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`Frost Revenant`
`00:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`Lightning Revenant`
`00:14.21`	`Bagginsww`	`Belkar`
`00:14.21`	`Zeal`	`well now you've flopped the other way.. lol`
`00:14.21`	`Bagginsww`	`now some of those we have definitley heard of`
`00:14.21`	`Zeal`	`but its fine for now`
`00:14.40`	`Bagginsww`	`but a mephits and belkar?`
`00:14.40`	`Bagginsww`	`and djinni?`
`00:14.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, the source bit of the articles needs updating - it should be in a References section`
`00:14.41`	`Bagginsww`	`that's creatures of the skywall`
`00:14.46`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`00:14.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, I'm just saying it's debated and linking to the relevant debate`
`00:15.02`	`Bagginsww`	`its just weird that people attack that one article`
`00:15.05`	`Zeal`	`i know`
`00:15.05`	`Bagginsww`	`but not similar one sin later books`
`00:15.08`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm not saying either way, which is as it should be`
`00:15.24`	`Bagginsww`	`no one gets upset at mephits?`
`00:15.30`	`Bagginsww`	`do we see mephits in game?`
`00:15.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Nice pic btw`
`00:15.47`	`Bagginsww`	`its can I put it bluntly hypocritical`
`00:15.48`	`Zeal`	`and i'm saying that works, can be transplanted over and re-written to the other articles it effects. just saying it could be easier with a template for all Appendix 3 stuff.`
`00:15.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Paint?`
`00:16.09`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL ya`
`00:16.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, I guess so`
`00:16.13`	`Bagginsww`	`paint`
`00:16.27`	`Bagginsww`	`felt it was easiest way to show what the book was describing`
`00:16.35`	`Bagginsww`	`with poor artistic skills`
`00:16.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Good idea, yeah`
`00:16.54`	`Bagginsww`	`if someone with good artistic knowledge wants to update it`
`00:16.55`	`Bagginsww`	`be my guest`
`00:17.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, you're right, there should be an Appendix III template`
`00:17.09`	`Kirkburn`	`And that section shouldn't be the "source" :P`
`00:17.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Reference, not source`
`00:17.44`	`Bagginsww`	`I just feel we are falling to the side of those that want to apply thei rown views`
`00:17.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Source if we can link directly to it, no?`
`00:18.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, but here's the thing - if we say they exist, then we're doing the same`
`00:18.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Uh`
`00:18.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Hm`
`00:18.37`	`Bagginsww`	`we never state the exist or not`
`00:18.39`	`Bagginsww`	`just quote the lore`
`00:18.48`	`Bagginsww`	`otherwise we open the can of worms`
`00:18.51`	`Bagginsww`	`of what can we believe or can't we`
`00:18.52`	`Kirkburn`	`You saw my update of the text?`
`00:19.08`	`Bagginsww`	`you have to equally touch on strange things mentioned in the rpg, novels manga etc`
`00:19.09`	`Kirkburn`	`All I've done is clarified what the controversy is about`
`00:20.47`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Hag`
`00:21.09`	`Bagginsww`	`hags in more than one sourc,e ;)`
`00:23.34`	`Zeal`	`i don't really understand the image tbh Bagginsww, otherwise i might`
`00:23.49`	`Bagginsww`	`image?`
`00:23.51`	`Zeal`	`i had a different view in my head when reading the descriptions, lol`
`00:23.55`	`Zeal`	`elemental planes`
`00:24.08`	`Bagginsww`	`I was gong form the book`
`00:24.39`	`Bagginsww`	`in the book it describes it as being a globe surrounding a sun`
`00:24.48`	`Bagginsww`	`I mean physically surroundnig the son`
`00:24.54`	`Bagginsww`	`like hollow earth theory`
`00:25.17`	`Bagginsww`	`skywall sourrounds the sun`
`00:25.28`	`Bagginsww`	`entirely around it`
`00:25.37`	`Bagginsww`	`then yo move to the surface realms`
`00:25.47`	`Bagginsww`	`abyssal and deephome`
`00:26.03`	`Bagginsww`	`they surround the skywall looking up towards the sun`
`00:26.15`	`Bagginsww`	`deephome acts as a kind of continent`
`00:26.23`	`Bagginsww`	`water laps at its shores`
`00:26.45`	`Bagginsww`	`also out in the water is a iceberge called Frostland as I recall`
`00:26.52`	`Bagginsww`	`forst something`
`00:26.56`	`Bagginsww`	`*frost`
`00:27.15`	`Bagginsww`	`now below the surface of those areas is the firelands`
`00:27.25`	`Bagginsww`	`it surrounds the entire world`
`00:27.35`	`Bagginsww`	`surrounding the other lands`
`00:27.50`	`Kirkburn`	`http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32640&posted=1#post32640`
`00:27.51`	`Bagginsww`	`fires lap at the underedges of deephome and abyssal plain`
`00:27.53`	`Bagginsww`	`causing steam`
`00:28.01`	`Bagginsww`	`and trying to melt away deephome`
`00:28.21`	`Bagginsww`	`surface of firelands keeps elementals form outside of the globe`
`00:29.07`	`Zeal`	`yeah, baggins, the inside out bit is unclear, you''ve got two different ordering systems used in that sentence. yours is one interpretation, but based on the other descriptions, i'm more inclinded to see it as a normal planet with a sun as it;s core.`
`00:29.33`	`Zeal`	`firelands as the magama, an large ocean, thne the continent with volcanos, then the skywall.`
`00:29.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Note an interesting difference between LotR and Warcraft - we actually talk about an entire planet. LotR acts like a giant flatworld :/`
`00:29.42`	`Zeal`	`rofl`
`00:29.43`	`*** join/#wowwiki Rachel_ (n=chatzill@125-236-146-60.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz)`
`00:30.04`	`Bagginsww`	`well firelands volcanos are below both abysal and deephome according to the book`
`00:30.07`	`Bagginsww`	`on the "outside"`
`00:30.11`	`Bagginsww`	`looking in`
`00:30.28`	`Bagginsww`	`its very hard to show a 3-d image`
`00:30.29`	`Percephene`	`hey kirkburn! :D`
`00:30.47`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/images/Hollow%20Earth%20theory.jpg`
`00:30.55`	`Bagginsww`	`that's as close to how it is desscribed`
`00:31.19`	`Kirkburn`	`Yay for Randi :)`
`00:31.22`	`Bagginsww`	`outside of firelands is a kind of shell that binds all elementals from excapsing`
`00:31.25`	`Kirkburn`	`He cool`
`00:31.50`	`Zeal`	`"From the inside out, the top layer." could be "From the inside to the outside, the first layer" or "From the inside out, the top layer" (as in the top of the world, the outter most layer)`
`00:32.00`	`Bagginsww`	`except the sun is int he center`
`00:32.08`	`Bagginsww`	`center of the world`
`00:32.24`	`Zeal`	`and based on it saying it would look like any other normal planet, which floating fire does not, didn't pan out`
`00:32.35`	`Zeal`	`i favour the latter`
`00:32.36`	`Bagginsww`	`there is a shell`
`00:32.38`	`Bagginsww`	`around the fire`
`00:32.48`	`Bagginsww`	`you can't see firelands form the outside`
`00:33.38`	`Zeal`	`plus deepest would = inner most, yet they use deepest and outer.. which directly conflicts either way you look at it.`
`00:33.42`	`Bagginsww`	`you can't have a central sun, if its oun the outside lol`
`00:33.47`	`Zeal`	`it doesn't say that?`
`00:34.08`	`Bagginsww`	`that article is kind out of date in aways I may have missed some lines`
`00:34.23`	`Bagginsww`	`I only skimmed through that article`
`00:34.26`	`Bagginsww`	`and added materail`
`00:34.27`	`Zeal`	`you also can't have a world around a sun, but that doesn't stop fantasy :P`
`00:34.42`	`Bagginsww`	`hollow earthers would disagree with yoru comment of it being fantasy LOL`
`00:34.47`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`00:34.52`	`Bagginsww`	`ya there are people who believe in hollow earth`
`00:34.53`	`Zeal`	`rofl`
`00:34.56`	`Bagginsww`	`and flat earthers too`
`00:34.58`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`00:35.35`	`Kirkburn`	`Heh, I'm now a Owl Scout on SoL:D`
`00:36.17`	`Bagginsww`	`thank you kirkburn bringing hte controversy to my screen name...`
`00:36.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh hardly :P One guy!`
`00:36.40`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`00:36.44`	`Kirkburn`	`oh, I seeeee`
`00:37.18`	`Bagginsww`	`ya and we have 3 kinds of sprites`
`00:37.26`	`Bagginsww`	`in world of warcraft alone`
`00:37.34`	`Bagginsww`	`not going outside to the RPG`
`00:37.35`	`Zeal`	`deepholme is the sky.`
`00:37.44`	`Zeal`	`that directly contradicts itself..`
`00:37.44`	`Bagginsww`	`no skywall is`
`00:37.45`	`Zeal`	`sigh`
`00:37.55`	`Zeal`	`not according to the firelands article : ?`
`00:37.59`	`Zeal`	`(Adys): /`
`00:38.02`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe some typos`
`00:38.03`	`Zeal`	`wtf`
`00:38.22`	`Bagginsww`	`editing issues`
`00:38.34`	`Bagginsww`	`skywall is sky`
`00:38.37`	`Bagginsww`	`deephome earth`
`00:38.48`	`Bagginsww`	`firelands fire`
`00:38.51`	`Bagginsww`	`abyssal water`
`00:39.17`	`Bagginsww`	`the names are pretty straightforward :p`
`00:39.38`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Sprite`
`00:39.40`	`Zeal`	`"The "ground" underneath the surface is a sticky, bubbling mess of tar, ooze and rock fallen from Deephome, which of course serves as the "sky.""`
`00:40.18`	`Bagginsww`	`oh ya deep home serves`
`00:40.22`	`Bagginsww`	`as the sky of firelands`
`00:40.41`	`Bagginsww`	`because firelands is wrapped around deephome`
`00:40.44`	`Zeal`	`"Organic and semi-organic material from Deephome, and even the waters of the Abyssal Maw higher above," thats contradictory too.. they're on the same level`
`00:40.46`	`Bagginsww`	`like an onion peal`
`00:40.55`	`Bagginsww`	`no`
`00:41.01`	`Bagginsww`	`abysal is over a thin crust`
`00:41.04`	`Bagginsww`	`of deephome`
`00:41.30`	`Bagginsww`	`gravity goes form the inside out`
`00:41.36`	`Zeal`	`"t would look like an ordinary spherical planet to an outsider, with realm of air (Skywall) floating above the oceans(Abyssal Maw) and single continent(Deephome),"`
`00:41.39`	`Bagginsww`	`its like hollow earth`
`00:41.51`	`Percephene`	`wow what conversation did i walk in on O_o`
`00:41.53`	`Zeal`	`ocean, with single continent. same level.`
`00:41.53`	`Bagginsww`	`if you were standing outside`
`00:42.01`	`Bagginsww`	`no`
`00:42.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Percephene, a looong one`
`00:42.13`	`Bagginsww`	`parts of deephome are below the abssyal`
`00:42.20`	`Zeal`	`"the middle layer the domains of Water and Earth," same level`
`00:42.22`	`Bagginsww`	`like ocean's crust`
`00:42.22`	`Percephene`	`lol i gathered that ;P`
`00:42.35`	`Bagginsww`	`its a think crust`
`00:42.38`	`Bagginsww`	`of deephome`
`00:42.39`	`Percephene`	`doesnt seem to be wow related, therefore i can contribute nothing`
`00:42.45`	`Zeal`	`it is wow related`
`00:42.47`	`Bagginsww`	`its elemental planes`
`00:42.51`	`Zeal`	`:P`
`00:43.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Percephene, it all stemmed from this forum thread we stumbled upon: http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?t=1273`
`00:43.08`	`Bagginsww`	`for example earth ocenas are above earth's crust`
`00:43.13`	`Kirkburn`	`We started responding on page 2`
`00:43.21`	`Zeal`	`see, now that makes sense.`
`00:43.28`	`Kirkburn`	`And then we've now got onto RPG book lore in general :)`
`00:43.29`	`Bagginsww`	`but its inside out`
`00:43.32`	`Bagginsww`	`like a hollow earth`
`00:43.55`	`Bagginsww`	`sun is int he center, you have a layer around it`
`00:44.06`	`Bagginsww`	`then a lesser layer of deephoem aorund it`
`00:44.12`	`Percephene`	`ouch scathing`
`00:44.17`	`Bagginsww`	`firelands wrapped around it`
`00:44.36`	`Bagginsww`	`it still would look like a globe to people standing on the outside`
`00:44.37`	`Zeal`	`inside out, top to bottom. different ordering. deepest and outer, different ordering. its stupidly worded either way.`
`00:45.02`	`Bagginsww`	`well it gets worse in WRPG it was described even differently`
`00:45.07`	`Zeal`	`...`
`00:45.13`	`Bagginsww`	`they were flat planes`
`00:45.24`	`Bagginsww`	`stacked one on top of each other`
`00:45.34`	`Bagginsww`	`no refrence to globes`
`00:45.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Percephene, there has been far worse on those forums :/`
`00:45.50`	`Bagginsww`	`although it mentioned stupid planes are always reshaping themselves :p`
`00:45.55`	`Zeal`	`and people on the outside would be where? because acorrding to that wording and your interpretation, the outside is next to the sun :P`
`00:46.03`	`Percephene`	`is that a guild site or what?`
`00:46.04`	`Kirkburn`	`It's the point where they started insulting Bagginsww that we felt we had to put up a defence`
`00:46.10`	`Bagginsww`	`outside is not near the sun at all`
`00:46.12`	`Kirkburn`	`I respected lore site`
`00:46.14`	`Kirkburn`	`*A`
`00:46.14`	`Bagginsww`	`outside is ont he inside`
`00:46.17`	`Bagginsww`	`erm`
`00:46.20`	`Bagginsww`	`the sun is ont he inside`
`00:46.30`	`Bagginsww`	`surrounded by the other layers`
`00:46.36`	`Zeal`	`in which case, it would not seem like a globe, but the inverse. the other way around, it would seem like a globe, but not a normal planet.`
`00:46.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Scrolls of Lore is a good site, very good in fact, but some of the members have weird views about the wiki`
`00:46.48`	`Bagginsww`	`if you were inside of a globe its still a goble`
`00:47.08`	`Bagginsww`	`inside of a cirlce is still a circle :p`
`00:47.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Or is it a Halo? ;)`
`00:47.51`	`Bagginsww`	`kirkburn point out "sprites' too`
`00:48.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Who where wha?`
`00:48.05`	`Bagginsww`	`sprites get reused for 3 kinds of creatures in World of Warcraft`
`00:48.07`	`Percephene`	`hmm i should buckle down on my mod re-skinning`
`00:48.12`	`Hobinheim`	`permaban`
`00:48.13`	`Kirkburn`	`On your talk page?`
`00:48.15`	`Hobinheim`	`solution to everything`
`00:48.16`	`Hobinheim`	`ip pan`
`00:48.19`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Sprite`
`00:48.20`	`Hobinheim`	`ip viewer ban`
`00:48.22`	`Hobinheim`	`ban hammer`
`00:48.24`	`Hobinheim`	`bans mcgee`
`00:48.36`	`Bagginsww`	`see kirkburn?`
`00:49.45`	`Kirkburn`	`I do indeed`
`00:50.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Should probably have the RPG template on, no?`
`00:50.04`	`Bagginsww`	`no`
`00:50.10`	`Kirkburn`	`On some sections`
`00:50.10`	`Bagginsww`	`cause its in Wow :p`
`00:50.17`	`Bagginsww`	`most of its split apart by wow`
`00:50.19`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah, on the non-WoW sections, silly`
`00:50.23`	`Bagginsww`	`most of it is wow`
`00:50.32`	`Kirkburn`	`Zis is true`
`00:50.58`	`Bagginsww`	`humanoid, dragonkin, demons, and elemental spirtes`
`00:51.00`	`Bagginsww`	`are in Wow`
`00:51.06`	`Bagginsww`	`look at pretty pictures ;)`
`00:51.39`	`Bagginsww`	`sprite faery dragon is in game too LOL`
`00:52.21`	`Kirkburn`	`:)`
`00:52.52`	`Bagginsww`	`although if you mean put it up on the individual humanoid sprites, or demonic sprites taking from the rpg I understand. Its just ugly`
`00:53.25`	`Bagginsww`	`very ugly when template is larger than the stub of a lore included LOL`
`00:53.33`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`00:53.56`	`Bagginsww`	`you see why i put it int hat article instead of making seperate articles right?`
`00:54.10`	`Bagginsww`	`just not enough info in each one to make it worth making stubs :p`
`00:54.13`	`Kirkburn`	`I want to link Strixus to the SoL thread, I think it would be quite elightening for her`
`00:54.43`	`Bagginsww`	`what's strixus?`
`00:57.32`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`00:57.53`	`Bagginsww`	`vandal?`
`00:57.57`	`Percephene`	`this is too distracting, im gonna log while i work on this, i have 130 buttons to redo =/`
`00:57.59`	`Percephene`	`bye`
`00:58.09`	`Zeal`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Aiden_Perenolde cleaned up for our SoL friend`
`00:59.34`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Forest_Walker`
`00:59.38`	`Bagginsww`	`forest walker anyone?`
`01:00.35`	`Bagginsww`	`oh btw kirkburn the controversy goes beyond the appendix 3`
`01:00.45`	`Bagginsww`	`I've had people declare RPG articles as non-canon`
`01:00.50`	`Bagginsww`	`simply because they were RPG`
`01:01.03`	`Bagginsww`	`like "half-orcs"`
`01:01.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Apparently the admin thinks we're baiting for a fight`
`01:01.10`	`Bagginsww`	`:p`
`01:01.19`	`Kirkburn`	`I note he has yet to tell me his wiki name so I can check up on his currently baseless accusations`
`01:01.21`	`Bagginsww`	`reason why i'm not getting involved LOL`
`01:04.52`	`Bagginsww`	`well my break is over back to the reading`
`01:04.58`	`Bagginsww`	`take care gain`
`01:05.16`	`Bagginsww`	`oh ya in the book I'm reading I came across an intesting culture`
`01:05.23`	`Bagginsww`	`well political structure`
`01:05.43`	`Bagginsww`	`Hmong of of Asia have a hereditary monarch`
`01:05.57`	`Bagginsww`	`however the council`
`01:06.22`	`Bagginsww`	`of warrior men of the nation vote which hereditary decendent will be next king`
`01:06.30`	`Bagginsww`	`but they always come form that line`
`01:06.53`	`Bagginsww`	`interesting mix of democracy and monarchy`
`01:08.42`	`Bagginsww`	`yes`
`01:08.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww ...`
`01:08.47`	`Bagginsww`	`thinking of blocking wowwiki`
`01:08.53`	`Kirkburn`	`You may be interested`
`01:09.01`	`Kirkburn`	`I think Yuber8900 is Theron`
`01:09.11`	`Zeal`	`:o`
`01:09.12`	`Bagginsww`	`....`
`01:09.14`	`Thrae`	`Kirkburn: Hey, do you know how to download a wiki?`
`01:09.17`	`Zeal`	`omg... lol`
`01:09.37`	`Zeal`	`you don't 'download' a wiki`
`01:09.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Explains that one, doesn't it ...`
`01:09.43`	`Zeal`	`you install it on a server.`
`01:09.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Thrae, you can't :P`
`01:09.47`	`Bagginsww`	`what did he post?`
`01:09.54`	`Kirkburn`	`"Everytime I try to edit something I get banned."`
`01:10.11`	`Kirkburn`	`More accurate would be "Everytime I try to edit something I get warned and ALMOST banned."`
`01:10.11`	`Bagginsww`	`ok...`
`01:10.14`	`Thrae`	`Zeal: Sure you can, I kinda did it with wget, but I need to rename some files`
`01:10.16`	`Zeal`	`well Kirkburn, he said hes tried doing stuff on the perenolde article, try checking up on that`
`01:10.19`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`01:10.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, Bagginsww and he had an edit war over it`
`01:10.33`	`Bagginsww`	`He's on probation warning right now`
`01:10.37`	`Bagginsww`	`not banned`
`01:10.52`	`Thrae`	`I want to download all current pages on the wiki. I'll do some more googling and use wget if I can't find it.`
`01:10.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Thrae, you're talking about downloading WoWWiki?`
`01:11.03`	`Kirkburn`	`yeah`
`01:11.10`	`Kirkburn`	`You can't do it easily`
`01:11.41`	`Zeal`	`thankfully..`
`01:11.41`	`Thrae`	`Kirkburn: Mirroring a snapshot of the site, yeah`
`01:11.41`	`Kirkburn`	`That would be something to chat to vlad_ about`
`01:11.42`	`Kirkburn`	`He's the owner`
`01:12.13`	`Thrae`	`Hey, I've known websites that have thanked me for grabbing their website. You never know when a database could crash :D`
`01:13.09`	`Bagginsww`	`well kirkburn I loied at aiden's article. only a few people that have ever edited it`
`01:13.16`	`Bagginsww`	`including Ramie`
`01:13.19`	`Bagginsww`	`who apparently vanalized it?`
`01:13.32`	`Bagginsww`	`or just misinformed info`
`01:13.46`	`Bagginsww`	`gonzalo 84`
`01:14.10`	`Bagginsww`	`and like you said theron`
`01:14.25`	`Kirkburn`	`It has to be Theron then :/`
`01:14.31`	`Bagginsww`	`Obvioulsy Vorbis, and Aelieas are fine`
`01:14.44`	`Bagginsww`	`and fandy`
`01:15.00`	`Bagginsww`	`90% of the topic was me, and that's due to access to RPG books`
`01:15.10`	`Bagginsww`	`or trying to fix what theron removed...`
`01:15.59`	`Bagginsww`	`so ya I think you are probably right`
`01:17.48`	`Bagginsww`	`you know though sometimes I wonder if theron is someone else`
`01:17.56`	`Zeal`	`i don't think it is theron`
`01:17.56`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe long missing dark tichon`
`01:18.08`	`Zeal`	`he stated he tried to remove the death knight information`
`01:18.19`	`Zeal`	`theron did no such thing`
`01:18.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Okay, we'll likely get visitors from SoL in a few mins`
`01:18.24`	`Bagginsww`	`no else did either`
`01:18.28`	`Bagginsww`	`as far as I know`
`01:18.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Posted link to here`
`01:18.33`	`Bagginsww`	`hmm let me check something`
`01:18.35`	`Kirkburn`	`http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32647&posted=1#post32647`
`01:18.47`	`Bagginsww`	`i'm leaving then`
`01:18.47`	`Bagginsww`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:18.47`	`Bagginsww`	`take care`
`01:18.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Noo`
`01:18.49`	`Kirkburn`	`=(`
`01:18.58`	`Zeal`	`heh`
`01:19.01`	`Bagginsww`	`well I must read my homework and I don't want stress`
`01:19.16`	`Bagginsww`	`40 pages to go :p`
`01:19.20`	`Kirkburn`	`There won't be, if there is I'll kick anyone who stirs it`
`01:19.21`	`Bagginsww`	`and some writing to do`
`01:19.40`	`Bagginsww`	`well I'll afk`
`01:19.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Cool, thanks :)`
`01:19.47`	`Bagginsww`	`how do you afk?`
`01:20.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Type /away`
`01:20.31`	`*** join/#wowwiki kaso_ (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`01:20.31`	`Kirkburn`	`That should grey out your name`
`01:20.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Lo kaso`
`01:20.37`	`Zeal`	`lol Kirkburn`
`01:20.40`	`Kirkburn`	`bye kaso ...`
`01:20.59`	`Zeal`	`:p`
`01:21.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah`
`01:21.09`	`Zeal`	`nub`
`01:21.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, you can't get much more open than the link being on the front bloomin' page ;)`
`01:21.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh, and on every single page ...`
`01:22.36`	`Deathface`	`hey how much g is it usually for a mount?`
`01:22.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Which?`
`01:22.56`	`Deathface`	`2 types right, normal and epic?`
`01:23.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Yup`
`01:23.05`	`Deathface`	`how much are each?`
`01:23.15`	`Kirkburn`	`Check on http://www.wowwiki.com/Mount`
`01:23.17`	`Zeal`	`80g (including training - rep and rank discount) for the normal`
`01:23.49`	`Zeal`	`beleive epic is.. 800g? :S i forget`
`01:23.49`	`Deathface`	`5k g for training?`
`01:23.56`	`Deathface`	`in BC?`
`01:23.58`	`Kirkburn`	`For the epic flying one, yeah`
`01:24.42`	`Deathface`	`i think i found a spot to farm some gold`
`01:24.54`	`Deathface`	`shellfish off the docks of shadowprey village`
`01:24.59`	`Deathface`	`is that good or on?`
`01:25.04`	`Deathface`	`no*`
`01:25.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Shadowprey ... remind me where that is`
`01:25.33`	`Deathface`	`desolace`
`01:26.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Ooh, I see - how much g do you have atm?`
`01:26.04`	`Deathface`	`i get 55 silver for 5 shellfish`
`01:26.12`	`Deathface`	`24`
`01:26.16`	`Kirkburn`	`I'd say that's pretty reasonable`
`01:26.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Do you get openable clams too?`
`01:26.37`	`Deathface`	`its swimming around for shellfish boxes , lol kinda lame`
`01:26.46`	`Deathface`	`idk didnt see clams`
`01:26.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah, lol - warlock?`
`01:26.51`	`Deathface`	`no im not`
`01:26.52`	`Deathface`	`so it sucks`
`01:26.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Ouch`
`01:27.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, you could try the naga in StV`
`01:27.16`	`Deathface`	`just farming them?`
`01:27.18`	`Kirkburn`	`They drop clams which sometimes have a golden pearl inside`
`01:27.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah`
`01:27.23`	`Deathface`	`is there a collector or anything?`
`01:27.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Collector?`
`01:27.35`	`Deathface`	`nvm`
`01:27.40`	`Kirkburn`	`What level are you, too? :)`
`01:27.51`	`Deathface`	`there is a quest guy for the shellfish, kind of a collector`
`01:27.56`	`Deathface`	`34`
`01:28.27`	`Zeal`	`only people i've seen dealing with baron perebolde stuff is baggins and vorbis :S`
`01:28.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Erk, 34 is a bit low for StV`
`01:28.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Deathface, personally, I would just quest`
`01:29.06`	`Kirkburn`	`6 levels is definately enough to get you lots of gold via quests`
`01:29.09`	`Deathface`	`i am for now, im just worried about not having enough for a mount`
`01:29.18`	`Zeal`	`34 is fine`
`01:29.26`	`Zeal`	`some fo the quests start about 32`
`01:29.36`	`Kirkburn`	`As long as you don't spend it on much new equipment, you'll be fine =)`
`01:30.35`	`Deathface`	`alright, cool`
`01:30.46`	`Deathface`	`i'm sure i'll have to farm some time though`
`01:32.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, Bagginsww (sorry) .... flibble: http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32651&posted=1#post32651`
`01:32.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Deathface, yeah, but I wouldn't worry about it until closer to 40`
`01:32.36`	`Kirkburn`	`If you're really stuck for cash, start around 38-39`
`01:32.54`	`Zeal`	`i know Kirkburn, read :P`
`01:32.55`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm a treant now!`
`01:33.11`	`Zeal`	`and there is no Yuber on the wiki afaik`
`01:33.13`	`Norlando`	`back`
`01:33.17`	`Norlando`	`how is everyone`
`01:33.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, crazy, as ever`
`01:34.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, google turns up nothing too`
`01:34.47`	`Norlando`	`why does it say i am not prepared on wowwiki main page`
`01:34.47`	`Zeal`	`i've got a feeling he was probably editing wikipedia XD`
`01:34.56`	`Zeal`	`because illidan > you`
`01:35.41`	`Norlando`	`erm?`
`01:35.56`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`01:36.07`	`Kirkburn`	`blame ... er ... someone else who isn't me?`
`01:36.22`	`Zeal`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoazeroth :s`
`01:36.43`	`Zeal`	`the BC trailer has illidan saying "You are not prepared" at the end`
`01:36.55`	`Zeal`	`with the release being less than a day away, the wiki is displaying it :P`
`01:37.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Woah - that's on wikipedia?`
`01:37.20`	`Kirkburn`	`And they call us bad ... ;)`
`01:37.58`	`Kirkburn`	`I can't decide what to change it to upon release, Zeal`
`01:38.20`	`Norlando`	`oh ok i thought i did something lol`
`01:38.36`	`Zeal`	`"Illidan was not prepared, he will come in a later patch" :p`
`01:38.38`	`Norlando`	`how do i create an article`
`01:39.05`	`Zeal`	`typing the url for it, if it doesn;t exist, it will take you to the edit page to create it`
`01:39.26`	`Norlando`	`in a wiki url _ are spaces right`
`01:39.30`	`Kirkburn`	`yup`
`01:39.40`	`Kirkburn`	`Not %20`
`01:40.10`	`Bagginsww`	`Kenzuki's quote`
`01:40.17`	`Bagginsww`	`those are from the book`
`01:40.42`	`Zeal`	`%20 works also though`
`01:40.43`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`01:41.04`	`Norlando`	`lol`
`01:41.39`	`Kirkburn`	`http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32654&posted=1#post32654`
`01:42.05`	`Norlando`	`question`
`01:42.33`	`Norlando`	`im writing an article, do i need to do anything but write it like add tables/boxes/whatever or is that auto`
`01:46.34`	`Kirkburn`	`What just happened to SoL?`
`01:47.06`	`Zeal`	`the stability of their forums is worse than the wiki.. lol`
`01:47.18`	`Zeal`	`its like the 10th time now..`
`01:47.51`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Warcraft_RPG#Official_Source_of_Lore`
`01:47.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Yuber just denied the canonicity of the RPG books`
`01:48.07`	`Zeal`	`Norlando, generall wiki formatting is to use the wiki code for heading sections (eg. ==Header== is a level 2 header)`
`01:48.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, if I get the chance, I add that to my comment`
`01:48.34`	`Zeal`	`you also have * for unordered lists, ; and : for definition lists and # for numbered lists.`
`01:49.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal *canon :)`
`01:49.48`	`Zeal`	`there is also {\| \| \|} for creating tables, but unless you are presenting tabular data, you should not be needing that (plus its a little complicated for beginers)`
`01:49.58`	`Zeal`	`noo i want to fire a cannon at them! :P`
`01:49.59`	`Kirkburn`	`cannons go bang :P`
`01:50.02`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`01:50.06`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`01:51.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Just comments like: "The RPG books are not the game. Until it's in-game it's not real lore. The RPG books are standalone and have no effect or impacts on the whole of the story unlike the Novels." ... beggar belief :/`
`01:52.40`	`Kirkburn`	`Kenzuki still hasn't given me his name`
`01:52.45`	`Kirkburn`	`The other guy hasn't joined the IRC channel`
`01:53.03`	`Kirkburn`	`We've answered every point they've brought up. sigh`
`01:53.25`	`Zeal`	`ooo that official lore for rpg bit is well done. take it credit goes to Bagginsww? :P`
`01:54.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Note that Yuber has resorted to ad hominem attacks now :/`
`01:55.12`	`Norlando`	`where can i find wiki articles about the code`
`01:55.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, almost certainly`
`01:55.18`	`Kirkburn`	`UI stuff?`
`01:55.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh, about wiki code`
`01:55.43`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Help:Contents`
`01:56.13`	`Zeal`	`mediwiki probably has a more consice list than anything on wowwiki, but our ones will explain more about how to write and name articles and certain templates to use to help you out.`
`01:57.42`	`Norlando`	`where can i find the templates`
`01:58.11`	`Kirkburn`	`WoWWiki:Templates, for some`
`01:58.23`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Templates`
`01:58.29`	`Kirkburn`	`(I should tkae my own advice)`
`01:58.31`	`Kirkburn`	`*take`
`01:59.16`	`Norlando`	`kirk remember that article we were editing yestarday`
`01:59.22`	`Norlando`	`highlord kruul`
`01:59.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Yup`
`01:59.49`	`Norlando`	`when you do a search for it and click, it goes to http://wowwiki.com insted of thehttp:// www.wowwiki.com`
`02:00.17`	`Zeal`	`and what url are you searching from? :s`
`02:00.49`	`Bagginsww`	`hominem isn't even a word`
`02:00.55`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`02:01.20`	`Norlando`	`the www.`
`02:01.21`	`Zeal`	`search worked fine for me :s`
`02:01.38`	`Norlando`	`Highlord Kruul - WoWWiki`
`02:01.38`	`Norlando`	`Highlord Kruul is believe by many to bring the end of the world as we know it. ... In his stead he has left his minion, Highlord Kruul, to sow fear and ...`
`02:01.38`	`Norlando`	`wowwiki.com/Highlord_Kruul`
`02:01.45`	`Norlando`	`see the link at the bottom`
`02:02.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem`
`02:02.19`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah, it's a problem`
`02:02.23`	`Bagginsww`	`that was a quote from yuber`
`02:02.28`	`Bagginsww`	`I know what ad hominem is`
`02:02.29`	`Kirkburn`	`without the www images don't work`
`02:02.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Yuber, lol really?`
`02:02.38`	`Bagginsww`	`against the man yadda yadda`
`02:03.18`	`Kirkburn`	`What. A. Tit.`
`02:03.19`	`Kirkburn`	`http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32663#post32663`
`02:03.34`	`Zeal`	`i have no idea what you guys are talking about with www. meh :S`
`02:04.03`	`Kirkburn`	`If you don't put www. in the address - images don't work :/`
`02:04.09`	`Bagginsww`	`its english debate lingo`
`02:04.30`	`Bagginsww`	`one of the most overused fallacies`
`02:04.39`	`Bagginsww`	`or "false reasoning"`
`02:04.39`	`Kirkburn`	`That reminds me - vlad_ do you know about the www problem? No need to reply, just another line for me to highlight for you :P`
`02:04.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Took me a while to notice, "WoWWiki Whore"`
`02:05.14`	`Kirkburn`	`He's got it the wrong way rounf`
`02:05.20`	`Kirkburn`	`WoWWiki is MY whore =)`
`02:05.42`	`Zeal`	`er.. where is his quote from? :S`
`02:05.49`	`Kirkburn`	`Whose?`
`02:05.55`	`Zeal`	`Yuber's`
`02:05.55`	`Bagginsww`	`You know I present material cause maybe someone will find it interesting`
`02:06.00`	`Kirkburn`	`We're onto page 4 now`
`02:06.00`	`Bagginsww`	`not to project my beliefs on anyone :p`
`02:06.08`	`Zeal`	`about you saying that`
`02:06.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, and we love you all the more for it ;)`
`02:06.19`	`Zeal`	`or is the quote entirely fake?`
`02:06.32`	`Kirkburn`	`He just changed the titles`
`02:06.33`	`Norlando`	`Im about to publish my first article(everyone clap)`
`02:06.38`	`Kirkburn`	`ooh`
`02:06.47`	`Zeal`	`so.. wheres the quote from? :S`
`02:06.47`	`Norlando`	`erm hold off for 1 min`
`02:06.51`	`Kirkburn`	`What quote!?`
`02:06.54`	`Norlando`	`i messed part of it up`
`02:07.06`	`Kirkburn`	`He's quoting me and change it from Kirkburn to WoWWiki Whore`
`02:07.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh no, he edited my comment too`
`02:08.00`	`Norlando`	`what template would you use to talk about an event`
`02:08.15`	`Zeal`	`yeah... i don't see the where hes quoted you from even in the slightest :S`
`02:08.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, what type of event`
`02:08.43`	`Norlando`	`battle`
`02:08.57`	`Norlando`	`with 2 or 3 pictures`
`02:09.08`	`Zeal`	`nvm sorry`
`02:09.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh right - use {{observation}} I think`
`02:09.19`	`Norlando`	`thanks`
`02:09.49`	`Norlando`	`can i take the thanks back? lol just kidding`
`02:09.58`	`Kirkburn`	`:O`
`02:10.21`	`Norlando`	`there is no observation it says`
`02:10.32`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, mind if I cope across your last comments?`
`02:10.36`	`Kirkburn`	`*copy`
`02:10.39`	`Kirkburn`	`About why you do it`
`02:10.44`	`Bagginsww`	`cope what?`
`02:10.53`	`Kirkburn`	`I can't cope! \o/`
`02:10.54`	`Bagginsww`	`copy`
`02:11.30`	`Kirkburn`	`<Bagginsww> You know I present material cause maybe someone will find it interesting ... not to project my beliefs on anyone :p`
`02:12.25`	`Norlando`	`kirk did you mean {{speculation}}`
`02:12.41`	`Bagginsww`	`well if you reword the last part`
`02:12.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Wait, what article are we talking about?`
`02:12.50`	`Bagginsww`	`not to force people to believe the material`
`02:13.03`	`Norlando`	`kruuls battle at ironforge`
`02:13.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Done`
`02:13.44`	`Kirkburn`	`hrm`
`02:13.55`	`Kirkburn`	`I'd go with observation`
`02:14.08`	`Bagginsww`	`if they try to turn that around to mean that they should have the right to start discrediting the material they are just as bad`
`02:14.10`	`Kirkburn`	`It's not a truly 'canon' event, nor is it speculation`
`02:14.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Well the last post on page 3 is someone justifying about Lunar Falls having made up a load of info`
`02:15.01`	`Norlando`	`i dont see observation`
`02:15.21`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Observation`
`02:15.24`	`Bagginsww`	`I have no idea what kenzuki is talking about but I just quoted the names mentioned int ehb ook`
`02:15.35`	`Bagginsww`	`nothing more nothing less`
`02:15.54`	`Kirkburn`	`He's also a pick and chooser`
`02:15.59`	`Norlando`	`hmm i didnt see that lol`
`02:16.11`	`Bagginsww`	`nine what the hell?`
`02:16.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Nowhere near as extreme as Yuber/Theron of course`
`02:16.53`	`Norlando`	`so to start it i put {{observation}} ? thats the first thing i type?`
`02:17.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, yup`
`02:18.22`	`Norlando`	`ok and then i can add what i like or does a premade template appear`
`02:18.58`	`Norlando`	`or does that only add the thing at the top`
`02:19.07`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah just the thing at the top`
`02:19.58`	`Norlando`	`oh so i need to add the other things, like the picture box and the information box`
`02:21.00`	`Bagginsww`	`as it is those demon, devil names were listed, the lore behind them was much different that whatever that was that kenzuki posted`
`02:21.26`	`Bagginsww`	`it only listed tehm as members of the Burning Legion`
`02:21.35`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe a refrence to twisting nether`
`02:21.37`	`Bagginsww`	`nothing else`
`02:21.53`	`Bagginsww`	`believe me if anyone starts adding material beyond that...`
`02:21.56`	`Bagginsww`	`it would be fanfic`
`02:22.02`	`Kirkburn`	`I know Bagginsww :/ He's grasping at straws`
`02:22.06`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`02:22.34`	`Kirkburn`	`And Yuber is grasping at magical purple imps`
`02:22.44`	`Norlando`	`kirk, is what i want an infobox?`
`02:23.13`	`Kirkburn`	`I have no idea. Just paste the text and it can be edited after`
`02:24.40`	`Zeal`	`oh all that is good and holy, don't use the wowbox and infobox..`
`02:26.39`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@ip70-178-135-244.ks.ks.cox.net)`
`02:26.39`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ`
`02:27.43`	`Hobinheim`	`Tekkub!`
`02:27.49`	`Hobinheim`	`wowace... neato`
`02:27.58`	`Zeal`	`wb Tekkub`
`02:28.15`	`Bagginsww`	`kirkburn in essays`
`02:28.21`	`Bagginsww`	`you cite sources don't quote sources all the time`
`02:28.28`	`Bagginsww`	`you have to cite thoughts even if it comes from another source`
`02:28.33`	`Bagginsww`	`if its not your own thoughts`
`02:28.52`	`Tekkub`	`merf?`
`02:28.54`	`Bagginsww`	`otherwise it is either questioned as plagiarism or speculation`
`02:29.06`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm an Archer!`
`02:29.10`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`02:29.59`	`Bagginsww`	`but ya citation by most methods is very strict on that issue as I recall`
`02:30.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Tekkub, want something fun to read? http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32673&posted=1#post32673`
`02:30.24`	`Kirkburn`	`From page 2 we come in`
`02:30.46`	`Tekkub`	`meh, reading is overrated`
`02:30.53`	`Kirkburn`	`no really, it's fun :)`
`02:30.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Especially Yuber8900 :/`
`02:31.06`	`Bagginsww`	`btw yuber is a saikoden character apaprently I think the artwork he has running along his posts is form saiikoden too`
`02:31.27`	`Norlando`	`this is really irritating`
`02:31.59`	`Bagginsww`	`and Lucifer is form the bible`
`02:32.01`	`Bagginsww`	`not the 9 hells LOL`
`02:32.06`	`Bagginsww`	`if we want to go that route ;)`
`02:32.16`	`Bagginsww`	`so many versions of Lucifer`
`02:32.30`	`Tekkub`	`all I'm seeing is internet forum arguing, is the thread something more than that?`
`02:32.47`	`Bagginsww`	`its mostly people whining on why the RPG should be ereased from wikipedia`
`02:32.55`	`Bagginsww`	`and not considerec canon`
`02:33.15`	`Bagginsww`	`it goes beyond just one article that they are tyring to use as an escuse`
`02:33.57`	`Tekkub`	`right, kirk, you own me 4 minutes of my life`
`02:34.04`	`Tekkub`	`I could have written an addon in that time`
`02:34.06`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`02:34.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Wow, Yuber just gets stupider and stupider`
`02:35.02`	`Bagginsww`	`kenzuki too`
`02:35.10`	`Bagginsww`	`who cares what the old forum said about those demons`
`02:35.16`	`Bagginsww`	`obviously didnt' come form that book`
`02:35.33`	`Bagginsww`	`cause I don't have the what the hell understading of what he said`
`02:37.09`	`Kirkburn`	`I think he's saying cause those names are taken from a D&D setup or something?`
`02:37.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Just cause some use the same names doesn't mean they're the same :/`
`02:37.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Hakkar would have severe identity problems otherwise`
`02:38.04`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`02:38.16`	`Bagginsww`	`I think the names actually come from before D&D`
`02:38.28`	`Bagginsww`	`most of them originate from like bibilical or philistine legend and otehrs`
`02:38.42`	`Bagginsww`	`which have nothing to do with whatever he was talking about LOL`
`02:38.51`	`Bagginsww`	`baaltor? nine hells?`
`02:39.02`	`Bagginsww`	`those aren't even mentioned int eh book`
`02:39.39`	`Bagginsww`	`Should I just get the Legion to swarm this place in spam again, what little thrills I got out of this are gone now.`
`02:39.42`	`Bagginsww`	`yber`
`02:39.45`	`Bagginsww`	`wow...`
`02:40.16`	`Bagginsww`	`kenzuki always spouting personal opinino`
`02:40.21`	`Bagginsww`	`not specific ciations`
`02:40.36`	`*** join/#wowwiki Administrator_ (n=chatzill@cpe-65-24-67-233.columbus.res.rr.com)`
`02:40.52`	`Norlando`	`ugh i give up`
`02:41.23`	`Bagginsww`	`there is certainly no quote in MoM that says this section si "non-canon" ignore me`
`02:42.00`	`Bagginsww`	`it never mentiosnt eh term canon. probably more refrences to the term "lore" :p`
`02:44.37`	`Biodeo`	`I had an entry removed having been cited as profane and bogus. While it was indeed profane, it is indeed in the game and I can prove it with a screenshot. Is it acceptable to post such things?`
`02:45.20`	`Bagginsww`	`add the screenshot`
`02:45.22`	`Bagginsww`	`good idea`
`02:45.56`	`Biodeo`	`Wowwiki has image hosting right?`
`02:46.02`	`Bagginsww`	`That's fine, I'm in contact with a member of the RPG team, when I get my reply from him you'll have your proof.`
`02:46.02`	`Bagginsww`	`-kenzuki`
`02:46.04`	`Bagginsww`	`last time I tried that`
`02:46.10`	`Bagginsww`	`all I got was, we aren't allowed to discuss that`
`02:46.33`	`Bagginsww`	`still wouldn't answer the question as to why other authors ahve quoted or used info form the Appendix 3`
`02:46.38`	`Zeal`	`slowwiki.com`
`02:46.40`	`Bagginsww`	`in later sources`
`02:47.08`	`Bagginsww`	`ya "upload"`
`02:47.12`	`Bagginsww`	`its ont he left side of the screen`
`02:47.51`	`Bagginsww`	`plus people have had me remove quotes form the team`
`02:48.02`	`Bagginsww`	`saying they their views weren't valid`
`02:48.11`	`Bagginsww`	`should we extend the same credience to them?`
`02:48.16`	`Bagginsww`	`that PM don't count?`
`02:48.37`	`Bagginsww`	`and that htey arne't metzen?`
`02:49.01`	`Bagginsww`	`very hypocritical system they work`
`02:49.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Yes, we need a very clear source about it`
`02:49.07`	`Bagginsww`	`use the RPG authors if it suits them`
`02:49.19`	`Bagginsww`	`and not if undemrines their view`
`02:49.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Yuber has gone absolutely off his rocker`
`02:49.29`	`Zeal`	`er.. Kirkburn you last post has thrown me for a loop :S`
`02:49.37`	`Zeal`	`yeah i could say the same..`
`02:49.47`	`Kirkburn`	`My last post?`
`02:50.10`	`Bagginsww`	`I've had to keep PMs form authors and editors to chat page, cause it wasn't valid citeable source`
`02:50.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, don't take the fact I said you weren't a friend in a bad way - he was using it to discredit us`
`02:51.09`	`Kirkburn`	`It's pretty simple tactics in a discussion - try and reduce the strength of your opponents by undermining their authority`
`02:51.19`	`Zeal`	`http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?p=32689 that post`
`02:51.27`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`02:51.33`	`Kirkburn`	`THIS is a link`
`02:52.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Fixed ;)`
`02:52.05`	`Bagginsww`	`Creatures from other d20 sources can add an exciting new element to a Warcraft campaign. This appendix details monsters from the MM v3.5, Creature Collection Revised, Creature Collection II: Dark Menagerie, and the Tome of Horrors.`
`02:52.13`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet it doesn't say "non-canonical" either`
`02:52.28`	`Bagginsww`	`thus neutral stance we have kept on our part`
`02:52.42`	`Bagginsww`	`it never discusses concept of canon or denies canon`
`02:53.21`	`Zeal`	`<@Kirkburn> Zeal, don't take the fact I said you weren't a friend in a bad way - he was using it to discredit us <-- wtf?! stop screwing with you mind`
`02:53.24`	`Zeal`	`*my mind`
`02:53.36`	`Zeal`	`that post i linked, makes no sense to me at all`
`02:53.49`	`Bagginsww`	`I may awaer of wowwiki for a month :p`
`02:53.58`	`Bagginsww`	`it will be easier with expansion LOL`
`02:54.18`	`Kirkburn`	`awaer? bugger off?`
`02:54.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal what was wrong with it?`
`02:55.24`	`Zeal`	`is there some sarcasm going on in it? :s`
`02:55.32`	`Zeal`	`you can't argue with mediwiki? :S`
`02:55.49`	`Zeal`	`oh nvm i get it..`
`02:56.10`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL, I don't think I've ever read one article where blizzard uses the term "blizzard canon"`
`02:56.16`	`Zeal`	`and oBaH is the only book metzen wrote himself.`
`02:56.17`	`Bagginsww`	`its always lore this lore that`
`02:56.22`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`02:56.34`	`Bagginsww`	`he's even contradicted a few minor things in it heh heh`
`02:56.40`	`Bagginsww`	`some dating issues`
`02:56.59`	`Bagginsww`	`so ya not the subject but Metzen is human`
`02:57.11`	`Bagginsww`	`they try to make it fit together as best as possible`
`02:57.16`	`Bagginsww`	`despite forgetting things`
`02:57.23`	`Bagginsww`	`oh btw did you now that Arrokoah`
`02:57.31`	`Bagginsww`	`have an important backstory to the Rise of hte horde`
`02:57.33`	`Bagginsww`	`in expanion`
`02:57.41`	`Bagginsww`	`but do not have any mention in Rise of the HOrde novel?`
`02:57.57`	`Bagginsww`	`they tried to defeat gul'dan by summoning a spawn of C'thun apparently`
`02:58.13`	`Bagginsww`	`on his rampage to enslave all draenor races`
`02:58.37`	`Bagginsww`	`before events of warcraft I`
`02:59.05`	`Bagginsww`	`kenzuki has gone nutz`
`02:59.12`	`Bagginsww`	`You know you're corrupting peoples minds right? Hundreds of people reference you, use your powers for good not evil! Repent of your sins, and you SHALL be saved saith the Light!`
`03:02.13`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?t=52165`
`03:02.28`	`Bagginsww`	`love how he words it`
`03:02.34`	`Bagginsww`	`anyone interested in joining in that topoic?`
`03:04.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, chided him for it`
`03:04.38`	`Kirkburn`	`(on SoL)`
`03:04.47`	`*** join/#wowwiki kazurk (n=kas@ip70-174-43-154.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`03:05.07`	`Bagginsww`	`Why your at it Magus could you explain in your opinion its not canon, why later sources quote creatues and info form it word for word sometimes?`
`03:05.08`	`Bagginsww`	`Granted we understand Magus that its just your opinion as you weren't around to write for Manual of Monsters, and wouldn't know those authors reasoning, or Metzen's view on the issue.`
`03:05.51`	`Bagginsww`	`and that you are just a freelance author`
`03:06.01`	`Kirkburn`	`:O`
`03:06.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, I'm pretty sure I check the Yuber8900 user name earlier - it didn't exist`
`03:06.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Then I check it just after his comment "my oh my!" it existed`
`03:06.59`	`Zeal`	`it didn't i checked`
`03:07.22`	`Zeal`	`but irregardless, the perenolde claims were lies anyways`
`03:07.55`	`Bagginsww`	`Why your at it Magus could you explain in your opinion its not canon, why later sources quote creatues and info form it word for word sometimes?`
`03:07.56`	`Bagginsww`	`Granted we understand Magus that its just your opinion as you weren't around to write for Manual of Monsters, and wouldn't know those authors reasoning, or Metzen's view on the issue.`
`03:08.00`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?p=923602#923602`
`03:08.01`	`Bagginsww`	`oops`
`03:08.04`	`Bagginsww`	`my post`
`03:09.43`	`Kirkburn`	`ooh bitchy`
`03:09.46`	`Bagginsww`	`removed refrence to canonacity`
`03:10.05`	`Bagginsww`	`Why your at it Magus could you explain if your opinion, is against it, why later sources quote creatues and info from it sometimes even word for word?`
`03:10.20`	`Bagginsww`	`I know magus hates the book`
`03:10.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Note that he Magus can probably contact Metzen to find out`
`03:10.22`	`Bagginsww`	`he's stated at other times`
`03:10.39`	`Kirkburn`	`(which is no bad thing)`
`03:10.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway, even if the info becomes 'non-canon'`
`03:10.55`	`Kirkburn`	`I see no reason to remove it`
`03:11.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Just alter the template on it`
`03:11.51`	`Bagginsww`	`still wouldn't explain if cetain material gets refrenced across the board`
`03:12.23`	`Bagginsww`	`well people have said not ot take magus word at face value`
`03:12.30`	`Bagginsww`	`cause he is just a freelance author`
`03:12.35`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`03:12.53`	`Zeal`	`i would not take his opinion as official at all.`
`03:14.31`	`Kirkburn`	`I appear to have gained a Blizzard tag?`
`03:14.45`	`Zeal`	`post icon`
`03:14.54`	`Zeal`	`you must have selected it by accident :S`
`03:15.01`	`*** join/#wowwiki doomsday (n=qwee@ool-457b0703.dyn.optonline.net)`
`03:15.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Seems so :P`
`03:15.07`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`03:15.07`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`03:15.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Fixxored`
`03:15.52`	`Zeal`	`"i have plenty of opinions too, right now most of which are formering about this forum and some of its members" :p`
`03:16.22`	`Bagginsww`	`more likely I've scared him away`
`03:16.29`	`Bagginsww`	`magus doesn't like controversy`
`03:16.37`	`Zeal`	`rofl`
`03:16.55`	`Zeal`	`flee.. lore nerds arguing :p`
`03:16.56`	`Bagginsww`	`he avoided commenting when I posted his quotes about maiv`
`03:17.03`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`03:17.05`	`Bagginsww`	`and others came in discrediting him`
`03:17.15`	`Bagginsww`	`funny how they like to use him when it suits them`
`03:17.23`	`Bagginsww`	`and ignore him it doesn't`
`03:17.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, you might want to link back to our thread as context?`
`03:17.42`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?p=923605#923605`
`03:17.48`	`Bagginsww`	`I did :)`
`03:18.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Where??`
`03:18.56`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?p=923605#923605`
`03:20.01`	`Kirkburn`	`No, I mean back to the SoL thread`
`03:20.18`	`Bagginsww`	`um let's just say I don't know about that thread LOL`
`03:20.27`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm a rpg forum post`
`03:20.30`	`Bagginsww`	`poster`
`03:20.36`	`Bagginsww`	`been argueing with these people a long time`
`03:20.52`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet no author has stated its "canoncity or non-canoncity"`
`03:20.54`	`Bagginsww`	`they avoid it`
`03:21.04`	`Bagginsww`	`I think they know its too convtroversial`
`03:21.30`	`Bagginsww`	`I've been telling them for a long time to that I neither state that its canon or noncanon I only post the information`
`03:21.46`	`Bagginsww`	`you know some even argue half-orc and half-ogre is noncanon?`
`03:21.51`	`Bagginsww`	`and half-elves?`
`03:22.11`	`Bagginsww`	`because the RPG made a big deal about them`
`03:23.19`	`Kirkburn`	`yeah I saw from your posts`
`03:23.25`	`Kirkburn`	`You keep having to state you're neutral`
`03:23.31`	`Kirkburn`	`But they just don't seem to get it`
`03:23.58`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`03:23.58`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`03:26.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Added a neutrality clause: http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:About`
`03:26.30`	`Kirkburn`	`(4th bullet)`
`03:27.07`	`Bagginsww`	`oh btw white wolf is 1 minute edit LOL`
`03:27.11`	`Bagginsww`	`lame but true`
`03:27.20`	`Bagginsww`	`guess they want to make sure people don't get in the last word`
`03:27.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, where is http://www.wowwiki.com/Demodand from?`
`03:27.40`	`Bagginsww`	`put these citations`
`03:27.49`	`Bagginsww`	`Cite\|MoM\|199,204`
`03:27.52`	`Bagginsww`	`erm 200`
`03:27.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Appendix?`
`03:27.55`	`Bagginsww`	`199,200`
`03:27.58`	`Bagginsww`	`and warning`
`03:28.10`	`Bagginsww`	`its more difficult for daemon as we have more than one source for that term`
`03:28.16`	`Bagginsww`	`ya the appendix controversy`
`03:28.30`	`Bagginsww`	`I haven't read demodand article in a while didn't notice it was missing form tehre`
`03:29.19`	`Zeal`	`I want a dwarf pala that can use staves and be in a neutral faction, so i can travel all of warcraft learning everything, discovering my past as an earthern and the link to the titans, while helping people, protecting them from harm and hoping to one day joing a reformed Silver Hand under Tiron Fording and meet Brann Bronzebeard.. ehehe`
`03:29.27`	`Zeal`	`thats my RP char in a nut shell :P`
`03:30.05`	`Bagginsww`	`kind of like Brann except he isn't apally LOL`
`03:30.18`	`Zeal`	`it's brann meets uther tbh`
`03:30.42`	`Bagginsww`	`page 199,200 goes for devil, demodand, daemon forward sections`
`03:30.50`	`Zeal`	`with a stave in hand, and a 2handed mace on my back :P`
`03:30.51`	`Bagginsww`	`and refrenced names`
`03:30.56`	`Bagginsww`	`heh heh`
`03:31.06`	`Bagginsww`	`so he's a pallidan/prospector`
`03:31.35`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`03:31.35`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`03:32.21`	`Bagginsww`	`we might have to be carefu abotu devils though as I think refrences to "devils" exist in other sources`
`03:32.31`	`Bagginsww`	`in which case I'll modify t later`
`03:32.37`	`Bagginsww`	`once I add the sourcesa`
`03:32.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford appeared on #wowi`
`03:32.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Weird`
`03:34.11`	`Bagginsww`	`btw this is second time kawaki attempted this I think`
`03:34.17`	`Bagginsww`	`to try to to get a quote`
`03:34.27`	`Bagginsww`	`but he is not well repected ont he forums`
`03:34.40`	`Bagginsww`	`he's been corrected by others for his complete anti-rpg view`
`03:34.49`	`Bagginsww`	`and trying to discredit any number of articles`
`03:35.13`	`Bagginsww`	`remember what his name? that supposedly died in tFT?`
`03:35.18`	`Bagginsww`	`dwarf`
`03:35.34`	`Bagginsww`	`well blizzard told the authors he wa sstill alive`
`03:35.45`	`Bagginsww`	`so that was included in Lands of Mystery`
`03:36.00`	`Bagginsww`	`Kawaki tried to use that as one of the reasons why the RPG should not be treated as canon`
`03:36.06`	`Bagginsww`	`and is not a source of lore`
`03:36.17`	`Bagginsww`	`one of the other forum posters had to correct him`
`03:36.21`	`Bagginsww`	`foogray as I recall`
`03:36.59`	`Zeal`	`"we've chatted alot about it"? :p`
`03:37.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Well we have haven't we :)`
`03:37.36`	`Kirkburn`	`It's not as if its ever been a dead issue - check the leprechaun talk page`
`03:38.06`	`Zeal`	`not about the header idea really`
`03:38.12`	`doomsday`	`on the diabolists page, you guys link the devils article as their source of power`
`03:38.13`	`Zeal`	`i jsut posted my thoughts on SoL anyways.`
`03:38.19`	`doomsday`	`this is not neccessarily true`
`03:38.33`	`doomsday`	`would you put a disclaimer in?`
`03:38.54`	`Zeal`	`moe than likely if that is confirmed not to be true`
`03:38.55`	`Bagginsww`	`uh actually its quoting a dictionarly definition`
`03:39.02`	`Bagginsww`	`as to what a diabolist means`
`03:39.05`	`Zeal`	`*more than`
`03:39.38`	`doomsday`	`yeah but there aren't neccesarilly devils in warcraft`
`03:39.48`	`doomsday`	`because of the whole appendix 3 controversy`
`03:40.04`	`doomsday`	`it could just mean evil powers or something in context`
`03:40.30`	`Zeal`	`mhm`
`03:40.35`	`Bagginsww`	`modified`
`03:40.39`	`Bagginsww`	`pointed out its a webster refrence`
`03:40.48`	`Zeal`	`i remember discussing this somewhere about the wiki article, ona forum`
`03:41.02`	`Bagginsww`	`in anycase diablo means devil LOL`
`03:41.05`	`*** join/#wowwiki Bradford (i=Tiberius@74-141-10-171.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`03:41.05`	`Bagginsww`	`translation wise`
`03:41.10`	`Bradford`	`sorry`
`03:41.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Heya`
`03:41.28`	`Zeal`	`Bagginsww, can you put it on a new line, just so its a bit easier to notice that`
`03:41.31`	`Zeal`	`lo Bradford`
`03:41.36`	`Kirkburn`	`np, Cairenn doesn't really mind, but it's more sensible to talk here`
`03:41.36`	`Bradford`	`hello`
`03:41.39`	`Bagginsww`	`I moved it down`
`03:41.53`	`Bradford`	`as i was saying Kirk`
`03:41.54`	`Zeal`	`ah, perfect :)`
`03:42.02`	`Bagginsww`	`and added "definition' heading`
`03:42.14`	`Bradford`	`what is to keep someone speculating something off the wall and posting it on the site`
`03:42.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, we only take the novels, RPGs and games as canon, nothing else`
`03:42.21`	`Bradford`	`it cannot be disproved`
`03:42.26`	`Bagginsww`	`um did i misspel definitoin`
`03:42.29`	`doomsday`	`cool thanks`
`03:42.32`	`Zeal`	`nothing bradford, but it sure as hell would be marked as speculation`
`03:42.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, nothing. But if they can't source it, it's deleted.`
`03:42.54`	`Bradford`	`ill use an example`
`03:42.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Believe me, we notice`
`03:42.59`	`Cairenn`	`Bradford: No worries at all, and I wasn't trying to be a bitch. However, you luckily came in when the channel was quiet, otherwise you might have had folks upset with you interrupting with something completely off-topic to that channel. :)`
`03:43.01`	`Bradford`	`one youve heard`
`03:43.03`	`Kirkburn`	`The Gnoll stuff?:)`
`03:43.18`	`doomsday`	`yeah it's spelled defenition`
`03:43.18`	`Bradford`	`Fire naga stuff`
`03:43.40`	`Bradford`	`that is what yuber and ken tried to change`
`03:43.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh that - well I can't speak for that before I arrived in may. But as soon as I saw it early June is was changed.`
`03:43.50`	`Bagginsww`	`defenition or definition?`
`03:43.56`	`Bagginsww`	`hmm just did a spell check`
`03:43.57`	`Kirkburn`	`second`
`03:44.01`	`Bagginsww`	`definition`
`03:44.03`	`Bradford`	`Definition`
`03:44.05`	`Bradford`	`sp`
`03:44.09`	`Bagginsww`	`so I think I have it right`
`03:44.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, under what names?`
`03:44.28`	`doomsday`	`sorry my bad :)`
`03:44.35`	`doomsday`	`can't spell`
`03:44.36`	`Bagginsww`	`I removed that crappy fire naga stuff`
`03:44.39`	`Bagginsww`	`not sure where it came from`
`03:44.44`	`Bradford`	`you must understand that by me being here, in this channel, its like being considered in the lair of the beast to my fellow SoL counterparts`
`03:44.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Hoi, it was me`
`03:44.50`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`03:44.52`	`Bagginsww`	`I removed some of it`
`03:44.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, it's a pity`
`03:44.58`	`Bagginsww`	`it was was in more than one page`
`03:45.07`	`Kirkburn`	`We really have nothing against you guys :/`
`03:45.15`	`Bradford`	`I understand that`
`03:45.15`	`Bagginsww`	`bradford we have nothing against you`
`03:45.21`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`03:45.28`	`Bradford`	`I am older than the majority of the site`
`03:45.36`	`Bradford`	`I am open minded`
`03:45.45`	`Bradford`	`and commend youre efforts`
`03:45.49`	`Bradford`	`but with retcons`
`03:45.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Older than the wiki? That would make you ... 2?`
`03:45.54`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`03:45.55`	`Bradford`	`and soooo much change`
`03:45.59`	`Bradford`	`No`
`03:46.06`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`03:46.07`	`Bradford`	`older than the posters on SoL`
`03:46.11`	`Bagginsww`	`ahh`
`03:46.25`	`Bagginsww`	`do we know you by other names?`
`03:46.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Swamp of Sorrows from Swamps of Sorrow IS a retcon, even if some people deny it`
`03:46.26`	`Bradford`	`I can have a discussion with you and not go ape shit mad`
`03:46.36`	`Bradford`	`how about Hakkar and Hakkar`
`03:46.41`	`Kirkburn`	`It's not a spelling mistake because it really was spelt like that`
`03:46.42`	`Bagginsww`	`it was both in warcraft oddly LOL`
`03:46.49`	`Bagginsww`	`both swamp and swamps`
`03:46.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Hakkar and Hakkar, well, identity crisis of course`
`03:46.57`	`Bagginsww`	`sprites`
`03:46.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, oh really?`
`03:47.00`	`Bagginsww`	`sprites are odd`
`03:47.02`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:47.09`	`Bagginsww`	`it was Swamp of Sorrows in the manual`
`03:47.11`	`Bradford`	`Metzen actually posted his fuck up on that one`
`03:47.17`	`Bagginsww`	`and Swamps of Sorrow in a few refrences in game`
`03:47.21`	`Bradford`	`he was like "oops, I made two hakkars"`
`03:47.26`	`Kirkburn`	`What about Red Ridge and Dead Mines?`
`03:47.33`	`Bradford`	`yea`
`03:47.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, oh yeah, I remember that`
`03:47.35`	`Bagginsww`	`in world of warcraft we have 3 different sprites LOL`
`03:47.38`	`Bagginsww`	`types`
`03:47.43`	`Bagginsww`	`well 4 kinda`
`03:47.51`	`Bagginsww`	`demon, dragons, humanoid, and elemental`
`03:47.56`	`Bradford`	`we have a saying.... if old lore doesnt match the new lore.... we blame it on the old Gods`
`03:48.05`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`03:48.06`	`Bradford`	`Old Gods did it`
`03:48.11`	`Bradford`	`like`
`03:48.15`	`Kirkburn`	`If Ken told me his blooming user name, we could have got somewhere :(`
`03:48.16`	`Bradford`	`Cross Island`
`03:48.36`	`Bradford`	`I tried several times to chat with them all`
`03:48.47`	`Bagginsww`	`One thing we have been trying to do is stear away from calling something a retcon, not unless blizzard states so themselves. But rather show the material as it was mentioned in old material in context`
`03:48.48`	`Bradford`	`Warlock, the admin, is a VERY level headed and smrat guy`
`03:49.01`	`Kirkburn`	`But he hates the wiki too, I notice`
`03:49.02`	`Bradford`	`tell me this then`
`03:49.20`	`Bradford`	`Was Blackhand warchief on Draenor, or on Azeroth`
`03:49.24`	`Bradford`	`er made warchief that is`
`03:49.28`	`Kirkburn`	`What was wrong with Cross Island?`
`03:49.29`	`Bagginsww`	`in ROTH?`
`03:49.39`	`Bradford`	`before ROTH`
`03:49.46`	`Bagginsww`	`in ROTH its before`
`03:49.46`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:49.54`	`Bradford`	`but of what clan?`
`03:50.06`	`Bagginsww`	`main issue with cross island is that in later games views of dalaran show it on land`
`03:50.26`	`Bradford`	`answer me... what clan was he in charge of on Dreanor?`
`03:50.27`	`Bagginsww`	`however oddly in warcraft II expansion shows cross island to be more land than an island`
`03:50.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, regarding fire naga - it only became an issue when it was annouced they were flamewakers`
`03:50.50`	`Bagginsww`	`In ROTH it only mentions his connection Black Rock`
`03:50.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Before they were flamewakers they had no name, so fire naga was all ANYONE had to go on`
`03:50.57`	`Bradford`	`Right Baggins`
`03:50.59`	`Bradford`	`BUT`
`03:51.03`	`Bradford`	`that makes not sence`
`03:51.07`	`Zeal`	`f'ing hate the wiki image syntax.. useless crap..`
`03:51.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Once we had the name, they were moved, though the article wasn't updated as much as it should have been`
`03:51.17`	`Bagginsww`	`there are issues in ROTH that seem kind of vague`
`03:51.21`	`Bagginsww`	`did you know bradford that`
`03:51.28`	`Bradford`	`yes`
`03:51.29`	`Bagginsww`	`ROTH does not go into arrakoah?`
`03:51.36`	`Bagginsww`	`and they had a very deep past with the rise of the horde`
`03:51.45`	`Bagginsww`	`gul'dan went after them`
`03:51.46`	`Bradford`	`I havent gotten my copy yet`
`03:51.54`	`Bagginsww`	`well this is a BC quest thing`
`03:51.57`	`Bradford`	`i seem to have come to the right place then`
`03:52.00`	`Bagginsww`	`arakora do not get one refrence in ROTH`
`03:52.02`	`Bradford`	`i have a dozen questions`
`03:52.25`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet htey are supposed tobe improtant parts of the history of the horde's creation`
`03:52.25`	`Bradford`	`Blackhand was one of my favs`
`03:52.32`	`Kirkburn`	`It tires me that fire naga is brought up so much because people don't view it in the context of the time when it existed. Flamewakers were NOT a known name back then, and we had NO background lore. We do now, however.`
`03:52.49`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:52.55`	`Bagginsww`	`we upgrade as we learn more`
`03:53.01`	`Bradford`	`I liked it better when ther was less grey area`
`03:53.07`	`Bradford`	`Horde are bad, Alliance is good`
`03:53.12`	`Bradford`	`makes me wonder`
`03:53.14`	`Bagginsww`	`if you want to really complain check out wikipedia's warcraft articles`
`03:53.23`	`Bradford`	`how Alleria and Tura will fell when they are found`
`03:53.25`	`Bagginsww`	`its less grey in ROTH`
`03:53.26`	`Kirkburn`	`I mean, I'm even going back to the 15th September 2005 version - it said fire naga was speculation all the way back then!`
`03:53.29`	`Bagginsww`	`you'll like that bit`
`03:53.36`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:53.51`	`Bradford`	`im not cimplaining at all`
`03:53.58`	`Bradford`	`I am just asking some questions`
`03:54.07`	`Bagginsww`	`form what I've heard from my contact with blizzplanet is that a certain horde quest establishes that Arrakoha`
`03:54.16`	`Bagginsww`	`tried to summon a spawn of C'thun`
`03:54.17`	`doomsday`	`http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/Addicts/NightShade/9b6d8535.jpg`
`03:54.24`	`Bradford`	`those are the birdlike fellas no?`
`03:54.25`	`Bagginsww`	`in order to stop Gul'dan's genocide of their race`
`03:54.26`	`doomsday`	`picture of shleipnar (sp)`
`03:54.28`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:54.31`	`Kirkburn`	`What was another 'mistake' brought up .. oh yes - complaining that were suggesting a son (?) of Tyrande and Furion is exists because he shares the name Whisperwind. Bit of an coincidence of name if not a relation, I would say .....`
`03:54.35`	`Bagginsww`	`improtant lore`
`03:54.39`	`Bradford`	`where did they originally come from?`
`03:54.39`	`Bagginsww`	`not even covered in RotH`
`03:54.43`	`doomsday`	`not sure how to edit so gave you the pic`
`03:54.45`	`Bagginsww`	`they are draenor`
`03:54.51`	`Bagginsww`	`form what I hear`
`03:54.55`	`Bagginsww`	`one of the original races`
`03:55.00`	`Bradford`	`Draenor have their own Old Gods?`
`03:55.10`	`Kirkburn`	`doomsday, save it to your PC`
`03:55.13`	`Bagginsww`	`no old gods apparenlty were cosmic`
`03:55.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Then upload it via the link on the left bar`
`03:55.19`	`Bradford`	`Sheesh`
`03:55.23`	`Bagginsww`	`went beyond just azeroth`
`03:55.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Next add it to the article`
`03:55.28`	`doomsday`	`k`
`03:55.39`	`Bagginsww`	`one of silithid an old gold abassador`
`03:55.50`	`Bagginsww`	`well actually looks like prophet skeram`
`03:55.58`	`Bradford`	`Also, I had no idea Illidan took that many vials from the WoE too`
`03:56.00`	`Bradford`	`says 7`
`03:56.07`	`Bagginsww`	`is imprisoned in that one prision in`
`03:56.10`	`Kirkburn`	`7? He was fast ...`
`03:56.16`	`Bradford`	`yeah`
`03:56.18`	`Bagginsww`	`nether storm`
`03:56.37`	`Bradford`	`part of the key quest to the Hyjal CoT instance is to get 2 vials from teh WoE`
`03:56.44`	`Bradford`	`one from Kael and Vashj`
`03:56.48`	`Bagginsww`	`interesting`
`03:57.10`	`Zeal`	`Blackhand would have been in charge of the Blackrock clan, made chieften long before corruption. But i'm getting this from RotH, as i've never played WC1-2 so my lore is very poor on them.`
`03:57.32`	`Bradford`	`Zeal, there was no Blackrock Mt on Draenor, which is what confused me`
`03:57.46`	`Zeal`	`oh i see`
`03:57.56`	`Bagginsww`	`ya I thought of that`
`03:57.56`	`Bradford`	`im sorry, i missed telling my point`
`03:58.07`	`Bagginsww`	`was blackrock mountain named before horde took over`
`03:58.10`	`Bagginsww`	`or after`
`03:58.13`	`Bradford`	`Before`
`03:58.20`	`Bradford`	`the DI dwarves named it that`
`03:58.20`	`Bagginsww`	`that's what I thought`
`03:58.25`	`Zeal`	`yes.. its like the conveniece of Draenei and Draenor, (which is now explained, Azeorth, arathi. some others i forget..`
`03:58.27`	`Bagginsww`	`ya it makes little sense`
`03:58.33`	`Bagginsww`	`dragonmaw exist too`
`03:58.38`	`Bradford`	`yes`
`03:58.42`	`Bagginsww`	`before`
`03:58.45`	`Bagginsww`	`so dragons on draenor?`
`03:58.52`	`Zeal`	`:p`
`03:59.05`	`Bagginsww`	`ROTH confirms that wolves of certain species are native to draenor`
`03:59.10`	`Bradford`	`Im willing to bet Alexstraza has Deathwing inside of the old Wildhammer city`
`03:59.22`	`Bagginsww`	`apparently snow wolves in Alterac were decended from Frostwolves`
`03:59.33`	`Bradford`	`yes`
`03:59.43`	`Bradford`	`the wolves on Draenor are larger than the ones on Azeroth`
`03:59.48`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:59.52`	`Bradford`	`hence where Worgs came from`
`03:59.56`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`03:59.56`	`Zeal`	`I doubt that to Deathwing, and i even doubt Alexstraza is there.`
`03:59.57`	`Bradford`	`they are a mixture`
`04:00.05`	`Bagginsww`	`never once called worgs though in roth :p`
`04:00.20`	`Bagginsww`	`oh and roth never goe sinto necrolyte history`
`04:00.20`	`Kirkburn`	`I should change my name to "Stupid WoWWiki Whore" ... I feel it accurately represents who I am :P`
`04:00.22`	`Bradford`	`I read somewhere teh goblins might be hiding him in the undermines`
`04:00.25`	`Bagginsww`	`only talks about warlocks`
`04:00.28`	`Zeal`	`rofl Kirkburn`
`04:00.50`	`Bagginsww`	`ya brann mentions severall hypothesis for deathwing`
`04:01.02`	`Bradford`	`hae you seen the model and quest for Gorefiend?`
`04:01.07`	`Bagginsww`	`btw someone told me they are mad at me for using the term "flavor lore"?`
`04:01.11`	`Bagginsww`	`I never made that term up, :p`
`04:01.15`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`04:01.16`	`Zeal`	`still didn't get a reply from strixus btw : /`
`04:01.18`	`Bradford`	`listen`
`04:01.22`	`Bradford`	`do me a favor`
`04:01.33`	`Bagginsww`	`ya?`
`04:01.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, nvm`
`04:01.37`	`Bradford`	`go check some of the thread on SoL without letting them know you are with Wiki`
`04:01.46`	`Kirkburn`	`I might try talking to her some time, maybe`
`04:01.48`	`Bradford`	`we have good stuff`
`04:02.06`	`Bagginsww`	`I'd rather not be involved personally :(`
`04:02.06`	`Bradford`	`we debate what ifs a lot`
`04:02.12`	`Bradford`	`no not that way`
`04:02.15`	`Bradford`	`dont let them know`
`04:02.21`	`Bradford`	`you are baggins`
`04:02.34`	`Bradford`	`just read it`
`04:02.44`	`Bradford`	`its an awesome site`
`04:02.46`	`Bradford`	`BTW`
`04:02.50`	`Bradford`	`help me on this`
`04:02.58`	`Bradford`	`is fordring takeing over for uther`
`04:03.00`	`Bradford`	`or`
`04:03.04`	`Bradford`	`is that a whole new order`
`04:03.16`	`Bagginsww`	`it hasn't occured yet in the RPG`
`04:03.23`	`Bradford`	`speculation`
`04:03.27`	`Bradford`	`your opinion`
`04:03.30`	`Bagginsww`	`nah`
`04:03.32`	`Bagginsww`	`statement`
`04:03.38`	`Zeal`	`Bradford, i've generally see alot of hostility to "what if" discussions, because people have already formed incorrect assumptions on "what is". challange it and they just dismiss it.`
`04:03.38`	`Bagginsww`	`in Alliance Player's Guide`
`04:03.50`	`Bagginsww`	`brann states that he's still out in eastern plaguelands`
`04:03.51`	`Bradford`	`yes zeal, but its fun`
`04:03.54`	`Bagginsww`	`wishes he would take over the order`
`04:04.02`	`Bagginsww`	`what's left ot he order`
`04:04.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, if they did try and get the fire naga article sorted, they didn't do it on the talk page :(`
`04:04.11`	`Bradford`	`yes but the wow quest shows him remaking the Order of the Silverhand`
`04:04.14`	`Bradford`	`when he son dies`
`04:04.25`	`Bagginsww`	`its a matter of wow showing some events of the future`
`04:04.26`	`Bradford`	`his*`
`04:04.34`	`Bagginsww`	`that just haven't happened yet in RPG timeframe`
`04:04.45`	`Bradford`	`there are sooo many paladin orders in WOW, its hard to keep up`
`04:04.46`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm sure it will happen`
`04:04.53`	`Bagginsww`	`heh heh`
`04:05.02`	`Bradford`	`personally, I still like the SC`
`04:05.11`	`Bradford`	`they hold the sign of Lorderon`
`04:05.18`	`Bagginsww`	`I think with release of BC they'll be able to lock down a few more things now`
`04:05.22`	`Bagginsww`	`and move the RPG forward`
`04:05.37`	`Bradford`	`have you seen the dialog in the COT thrall even`
`04:05.40`	`Bradford`	`event`
`04:05.44`	`Zeal`	`for example.. http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Lore_Theories i know the silithid stuff doesn't go down well with people, yet they do bother to refute it, or even know that even brann speculates on it too.`
`04:05.44`	`Bradford`	`in southshort`
`04:05.57`	`Zeal`	`*don't bother`
`04:06.10`	`Bradford`	`it has all the future SC guys meeting in the inn`
`04:06.15`	`Bradford`	`talking about making a sword`
`04:06.22`	`Bagginsww`	`ya I red that over in blizzplanet`
`04:06.22`	`Bradford`	`which turns out to be Ashbringer`
`04:06.27`	`*** join/#wowwiki deathfromabove12 (n=qwret@ool-457b0703.dyn.optonline.net)`
`04:06.31`	`Bagginsww`	`its very cool`
`04:06.36`	`Bradford`	`i saw a video its cool`
`04:06.41`	`Bagginsww`	`heh ya`
`04:06.49`	`Bradford`	`they have a child version of Herod running atound`
`04:06.56`	`Bagginsww`	`hah hah`
`04:06.56`	`Bradford`	`called the bully`
`04:06.58`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`04:07.08`	`Bradford`	`KelThuzad is there too`
`04:07.13`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`04:07.21`	`Bagginsww`	`and that fisherman guy`
`04:07.28`	`Bradford`	`the hound master is too`
`04:07.28`	`Bagginsww`	`that always seems to know more than he gets on`
`04:07.42`	`Bradford`	`the one on the docks?`
`04:08.04`	`Bagginsww`	`ya he's on docks in soutshore, but dustwallow marsh in "modern times"`
`04:08.14`	`Bradford`	`oh`
`04:08.16`	`Bradford`	`ya`
`04:08.17`	`Zeal`	`Bradford, i beleive it's implied Fording plans to recreate the Silver Hand, the existing one not being the one he means, but it's all really speculative atm.`
`04:08.19`	`Bradford`	`shit i forgot`
`04:08.26`	`Zeal`	`especially with the stuff from light's hope chapel`
`04:08.30`	`Bagginsww`	`ya zeal`
`04:08.39`	`Bagginsww`	`his opinion is that he is going to rebuild the oirignal order`
`04:08.49`	`Bradford`	`i doubt Fordring would allow horde into the silverhand like the AD does`
`04:08.58`	`Bagginsww`	`its funny cause brann comments that htere are some that would disagree with his views`
`04:08.59`	`Bradford`	`even though`
`04:09.01`	`Bradford`	`Etrigg`
`04:09.04`	`Bradford`	`but still`
`04:09.05`	`Zeal`	`well the AD isn't the silverhand, but yeah :P`
`04:09.13`	`Bradford`	`i know`
`04:09.20`	`Bradford`	`but some of the members used to be`
`04:09.22`	`Bagginsww`	`bradford did you read the improved silverhand article?`
`04:09.29`	`Bradford`	`where?`
`04:09.30`	`Bagginsww`	`I added alot of APG material to it`
`04:09.42`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Knights_of_the_Silver_Hand`
`04:09.48`	`Bradford`	`sec`
`04:10.12`	`Bradford`	`if you dont mind me asking, are you all in america?`
`04:10.17`	`Kirkburn`	`UK`
`04:10.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Adys was french =)`
`04:10.33`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm american`
`04:11.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal is also from the UK`
`04:11.52`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`04:12.06`	`Bradford`	`what does the player pallies start under when they begin?`
`04:12.13`	`Bagginsww`	`we come from "EArth"`
`04:12.20`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagginsww, are you sure?`
`04:12.23`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`04:12.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, what do you mean exactly?`
`04:12.34`	`Bradford`	`The chapel in SW is still under the control of the silverhand no?`
`04:12.35`	`Bagginsww`	`questlines state that you join the order of the silver hand`
`04:12.41`	`Bradford`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:12.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah`
`04:12.46`	`Bagginsww`	`the old intro screen stated that too`
`04:12.49`	`Bradford`	`when you and i make a pally character`
`04:12.49`	`Norlando-away`	`what do you guys know about the dragonmaw clan`
`04:13.02`	`Bagginsww`	`ya both dwarf and humans`
`04:13.02`	`Kirkburn`	`They like their dragons`
`04:13.04`	`Norlando`	`theres not much about them on wowwiki`
`04:13.04`	`Bradford`	`demon soul, nekros`
`04:13.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Really?`
`04:13.11`	`Bagginsww`	`state "you are part of hte silver hand'`
`04:13.13`	`Bagginsww`	`one of hte first quests`
`04:13.17`	`Zeal`	`basically, i see it as Fording is still in exile and imo, is a better paladin in terms of ideals than Uther, so he wishes to recreate the order after the failings they've made between his exile and present day.`
`04:13.26`	`Norlando`	`these guys were big(level 20) and were like white and bumpy`
`04:14.19`	`Bagginsww`	`oh btw Bradford, ROTH does not mention Orgrim's time with Thunderlord`
`04:14.19`	`Bradford`	`i think it was cool that Deathwing left some black dragons in outland`
`04:14.19`	`Bagginsww`	`its mentioned in HPG though`
`04:14.19`	`Bradford`	`oh?`
`04:14.20`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, this is true, there's not a great deal about them, hmm`
`04:14.20`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`04:14.29`	`Bradford`	`what specifically does it say?`
`04:14.31`	`Bagginsww`	`it only mentions orgrim with Black rocks`
`04:14.51`	`Bagginsww`	`and let me get the book out for the HPG quote`
`04:14.54`	`Bradford`	`and killrog?`
`04:14.54`	`Norlando`	`i'll add what i can`
`04:14.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, much more on the specific characters pages, though`
`04:15.02`	`Norlando`	`i got killed by them 7 times`
`04:15.07`	`Norlando`	`in the past 20 minutes`
`04:15.09`	`Kirkburn`	`There is lots from TBC to go in`
`04:15.12`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`04:15.17`	`Bradford`	`Baggins`
`04:15.18`	`Bradford`	`Kirk`
`04:15.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford`
`04:15.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford`
`04:15.27`	`Bradford`	`you guys have a vent server?`
`04:15.32`	`Bradford`	`Id love to chat`
`04:15.37`	`Zeal`	`hes named you void now Kirkburn :P`
`04:15.38`	`Kirkburn`	`nope :)`
`04:15.39`	`Bagginsww`	`no mic`
`04:15.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, Yuber?`
`04:15.54`	`Bradford`	`you have teh software?`
`04:16.09`	`Zeal`	`yuup`
`04:16.24`	`Bagginsww`	`basically HPG says that Orgrim rose to power through the thunderlords.`
`04:16.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, weird, it's pretty much a self-inditing comment that`
`04:17.03`	`Bagginsww`	`doesn't explain how that worked, but it would seem he was joint blackrock and thunderlord at some pont`
`04:17.22`	`Bradford`	`you know what ROTH is dont ya?`
`04:17.24`	`Bagginsww`	`ROTH compoletely misses the refrence.`
`04:17.28`	`Zeal`	`and the Dragonmaw are basically the clan that held up in grim batol during the second war, had alexstraza, was breeding red dragons. they still have remants in wetlands`
`04:17.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Bradford, we could do a vent server, but I wouldn't expect great stuff of it - it's much easier to chat here`
`04:17.59`	`Bradford`	`ROth is an attempt to tie together stuff that could never be tided togther in the past`
`04:18.13`	`Norlando`	`kirk im going to pm you is that ok?`
`04:18.13`	`Bagginsww`	`ya unfortunately its lacking in spots`
`04:18.15`	`Zeal`	`and add the draenei backstory :P`
`04:18.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Sure`
`04:18.22`	`Bagginsww`	`it glosses over opening of hte portal`
`04:18.30`	`Bagginsww`	`only cuts to the final full opening`
`04:18.38`	`Bradford`	`I was pissed off when I heard that the Draenei were Eredar once`
`04:18.42`	`Bagginsww`	`doesn't mention the slow process to open it form a small hole`
`04:19.03`	`Bagginsww`	`well there is not much wrong with the book actually`
`04:19.08`	`Bradford`	`no`
`04:19.10`	`Bradford`	`there isnt`
`04:19.11`	`Bagginsww`	`it just doesn't cover all things`
`04:19.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, if you've tried to message me, it hasn't worked. You have to register with freenode.`
`04:19.22`	`Bagginsww`	`HPG went a bit more in detail in certain material`
`04:19.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Why the PM anyway?`
`04:19.27`	`Bradford`	`but the past game lore, the books, and others didnt always match`
`04:19.30`	`Bagginsww`	`and BC will give you even more`
`04:19.36`	`Bradford`	`so ROTH was an attempt to make them match`
`04:19.45`	`Bagginsww`	`she just forgot a few things is all.`
`04:20.06`	`Bagginsww`	`nothing on history of necrolytes for example`
`04:20.09`	`Kirkburn`	`I think we're all used to LotR's painstaking approach to lore too much`
`04:20.11`	`Bradford`	`what does it say about blackhand and his sons`
`04:20.14`	`Bagginsww`	`HPG goes into their history more`
`04:20.23`	`Bagginsww`	`one of my favorite parts`
`04:20.23`	`Zeal`	`I still want to know more about the light, the broken, the lost ones, naaru etc. but i'd imagine it will be mostly answered through quests in BC.`
`04:20.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Tolkein spent _years_ fiddling with it, Metzen has more fun stuff to do :)`
`04:20.27`	`Bagginsww`	`it refrences griselda`
`04:20.32`	`Bradford`	`the sister?`
`04:20.37`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`04:20.41`	`Bagginsww`	`only mentioned in warcraft 1`
`04:20.45`	`Bagginsww`	`previously`
`04:20.45`	`Bradford`	`what does she say`
`04:20.51`	`Bagginsww`	`she doesn't talk`
`04:20.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, yup a fair amount is in TBC`
`04:20.53`	`Bagginsww`	`it only mentions her`
`04:21.02`	`Bradford`	`ill tell you, Blackhand and deathwing musta fucked like rabbits`
`04:21.04`	`Bagginsww`	`and that blackhand refuses her the chance to drink the blood`
`04:21.06`	`Norlando`	`how did we get to talking about tokien?`
`04:21.07`	`Bradford`	`they had a lot of kids`
`04:21.14`	`Bagginsww`	`also warlocks`
`04:21.18`	`Bagginsww`	`they use an aging spell`
`04:21.23`	`Bagginsww`	`to cause all children to age`
`04:21.23`	`Norlando`	`tokein*`
`04:21.24`	`Bagginsww`	`to adults`
`04:21.25`	`Bradford`	`fpr Main and rend`
`04:21.33`	`Bagginsww`	`and tell everyone to mate like rabbits basically`
`04:21.34`	`Norlando`	`tolkein**`
`04:21.39`	`Bagginsww`	`so they can use the spell to create more forces`
`04:21.46`	`Bradford`	`Grom has a son in outland i hear`
`04:21.53`	`Bagginsww`	`a certain explanation that could be used for Garona btw`
`04:22.04`	`Zeal`	`well alexstraza certainly went at it alot though.`
`04:22.05`	`Bagginsww`	`if that spell was used on her post opening of hte portal`
`04:22.06`	`Bradford`	`Kingsfall was here dagger right?`
`04:22.12`	`Bagginsww`	`to make her an adult`
`04:22.13`	`Zeal`	`shes gotta e the msot sex'd being in warcraft..`
`04:22.21`	`Bagginsww`	`I think so`
`04:22.23`	`Bagginsww`	`not sure`
`04:22.37`	`Bagginsww`	`but ya there has been an issue with 15 years removed from original timeline`
`04:22.41`	`Bradford`	`I had how they made the might of Menethil look`
`04:22.48`	`Bagginsww`	`if those years existed age of garona as an adult would have been no problem`
`04:22.54`	`Bagginsww`	`as an adult half-human orc`
`04:23.03`	`Bradford`	`thats always a big deal in this lore`
`04:23.05`	`Bradford`	`age`
`04:23.08`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`04:23.10`	`Bradford`	`doesnt always add up`
`04:23.17`	`Bagginsww`	`well now we know warlocks age the orcs to at least 12`
`04:23.19`	`Bradford`	`BUT`
`04:23.21`	`Bagginsww`	`which is a fighting age`
`04:23.22`	`Bradford`	`orcs do mature faster`
`04:23.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, I was just commenting on how Warcraft lore is more flexible than Middle Earth`
`04:23.47`	`Bradford`	`like 14 years to full adult size`
`04:23.48`	`Bagginsww`	`well ya they are more adult at 20 than ahuman would`
`04:23.57`	`Bagginsww`	`book implies something like 20`
`04:24.00`	`Bradford`	`oh`
`04:24.00`	`Zeal`	`hm.. well we've already established many orcs in outland are actually over 200`
`04:24.04`	`Kirkburn`	`They were sped up`
`04:24.04`	`Bradford`	`i gotta get that book`
`04:24.07`	`Bagginsww`	`just they are more mature at 20`
`04:24.09`	`Bagginsww`	`it seems`
`04:24.11`	`Zeal`	`which wasn not previously thought possible`
`04:24.12`	`Norlando`	`hey kirk could you reply to my pm`
`04:24.13`	`Bagginsww`	`bigger`
`04:24.15`	`Bagginsww`	`etc`
`04:24.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, I commented earlier on why I didn't get it`
`04:24.24`	`Bradford`	`well`
`04:24.35`	`Bagginsww`	`rite of adulthood was unclear but seemed to be between 16-20`
`04:24.39`	`Kirkburn`	`You need to be registered with freenode`
`04:24.48`	`Bradford`	`im on the Balnazzar server now, human rogue named lerric... i need to go get some cash so ill be back on here`
`04:24.49`	`Bradford`	`for sure`
`04:25.01`	`Zeal`	`ttyl :p`
`04:25.02`	`Bradford`	`thanks for the time fellas`
`04:25.05`	`Bagginsww`	`and bradford if blizzard changes their timelne again...`
`04:25.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Thanks for coming :)`
`04:25.14`	`Bagginsww`	`well it'll certaily be added to our list of timelines LOL`
`04:25.28`	`Bradford`	`=D`
`04:25.28`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`04:25.28`	`Bagginsww`	`I hate timelines myself`
`04:25.28`	`Bagginsww`	`prefer to keep things vague`
`04:25.30`	`Bradford`	`yea`
`04:25.37`	`Bradford`	`anyways`
`04:25.39`	`Bradford`	`been fun`
`04:25.40`	`Bagginsww`	`cause you never know when blizzard will undermine what you type`
`04:25.41`	`Bradford`	`OH YEA`
`04:25.45`	`Bradford`	`wish me luck`
`04:25.51`	`Norlando`	`oh sorry its hard to keep up`
`04:25.52`	`Bagginsww`	`thanks for being understanding`
`04:26.02`	`Bradford`	`i have 5 packs of the The cards...... i want a turtle mount`
`04:26.08`	`Bradford`	`im about to open them`
`04:26.09`	`Zeal`	`god dreaming god clearly skimmed the whole topic`
`04:26.10`	`Bagginsww`	`ooh`
`04:26.18`	`Bagginsww`	`if you get two sell me one ft cheap :p`
`04:26.36`	`Bradford`	`ill see`
`04:26.43`	`Bagginsww`	`I can't afforrd the TCG have university to think about in a few months LOL`
`04:26.44`	`Bradford`	`ill get more on Tuesday`
`04:26.56`	`Bradford`	`they are super rare`
`04:26.58`	`Bagginsww`	`well about 6`
`04:26.59`	`Zeal`	`well me and Bagginsww have been working hard on a timeline compiled from all sources :)`
`04:26.59`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`04:27.09`	`Bagginsww`	`nah zeal is working hard`
`04:27.15`	`Bradford`	`dont trust the WOW site timeline btw`
`04:27.16`	`Bagginsww`	`I just get him the refrences :p`
`04:27.22`	`Bradford`	`DotD is fucking it up`
`04:27.27`	`Bagginsww`	`WoW cite timeli;ne is older`
`04:27.32`	`Bagginsww`	`we don't trust it`
`04:27.34`	`Bagginsww`	`its never been updated`
`04:27.47`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline`
`04:27.49`	`Bradford`	`peace`
`04:27.50`	`Bagginsww`	`that's our disambig`
`04:27.52`	`Bradford`	`been fun`
`04:27.54`	`Bradford`	`night guys`
`04:27.59`	`Bagginsww`	`gnight`
`04:28.01`	`Norlando`	`how can you request your pass`
`04:28.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Woo, dispatched!`
`04:28.02`	`Norlando`	`night`
`04:28.07`	`Kirkburn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:28.07`	`Kirkburn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:28.24`	`Bagginsww`	`Bradford, now that was a nice chap.`
`04:28.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, check on the freenode.net website`
`04:28.31`	`Bagginsww`	`hope he joins us more often`
`04:28.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Very nice guy, v reasonable :)`
`04:28.49`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`04:28.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, does it _have_ to be a PM? :P`
`04:28.57`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`04:29.10`	`Zeal`	`hes a very nice man, a very very nice man ;)`
`04:29.14`	`Zeal`	`lame ftw`
`04:29.17`	`Kirkburn`	`If only Theron was like him, and not outright liar =)`
`04:29.23`	`Bagginsww`	`sigh`
`04:29.39`	`Zeal`	`i still don;t think it was theron..`
`04:29.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, why? He acted just like him`
`04:30.01`	`Bagginsww`	`well the dififulty was that there has been few to ever edit the aiden thread`
`04:30.07`	`Bagginsww`	`*dificulty`
`04:30.08`	`Kirkburn`	`He never denied it`
`04:30.23`	`Norlando`	`well its sort of irritating to post it in here`
`04:30.27`	`Norlando`	`not to me`
`04:30.30`	`Bagginsww`	`and theron is from suikoden`
`04:30.32`	`Norlando`	`but to everyone else`
`04:30.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Indeed, unless he lied about editing the Perenolde article too ...`
`04:30.34`	`Bagginsww`	`from what I can find`
`04:30.35`	`Zeal`	`well the perenolde thing was a complete lie, i confirmed that.`
`04:30.37`	`Bagginsww`	`so there is a connetion`
`04:30.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Norlando, okay`
`04:30.53`	`Bagginsww`	`yubber or howeve ryou spell it is a suikoden characer`
`04:30.54`	`Zeal`	`it is Bagginsww? won me over then i guess, lol`
`04:30.58`	`Norlando`	`well its about my article`
`04:31.01`	`Kirkburn`	`sec`
`04:31.06`	`Bagginsww`	`I did a search for theron and suikoden`
`04:31.10`	`Bagginsww`	`its coming up with hits`
`04:31.11`	`Kirkburn`	`http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration`
`04:31.30`	`Bagginsww`	`I don't know for sure cause I don't know much of anything about those games`
`04:31.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Suikoden?`
`04:31.31`	`Norlando`	`kirk just join #vivalogam`
`04:31.36`	`Bagginsww`	`some rpg series`
`04:31.39`	`Bagginsww`	`console`
`04:32.33`	`Bagginsww`	`mangas too I guess`
`04:33.07`	`Kirkburn`	`MY EYES!! http://www.wowwiki.com/Battle_of_Blackrock_Spire`
`04:33.21`	`Bagginsww`	`why do people do that...`
`04:33.38`	`Bagginsww`	`more color is is nasty`
`04:33.42`	`Bagginsww`	`keep it simple`
`04:33.55`	`Norlando`	`i agree`
`04:34.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Woargh! Scary code`
`04:34.52`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Battle`
`04:35.17`	`Kirkburn`	`The colours and stuff are fixed using the above`
`04:35.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Any takers? :)`
`04:35.51`	`Bagginsww`	`not enough wiki experience LOL`
`04:35.59`	`Zeal`	`{{speedydelete}} Kirkburn :P`
`04:36.05`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`04:36.07`	`Norlando`	`lol`
`04:36.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Used on two articles`
`04:36.24`	`Norlando`	`i think zeal's would work the best`
`04:36.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway, I'm afk for a bit`
`04:36.49`	`Bagginsww`	`I should probalby log now`
`04:36.56`	`Bagginsww`	`already wasted time :p`
`04:36.59`	`Kirkburn`	`It's only 4:37 am for me`
`04:37.00`	`Bagginsww`	`its a good thing its a holiday weekend`
`04:37.15`	`Bagginsww`	`8:36 P:M here. so not so bad`
`04:37.27`	`Bagginsww`	`but definilty need to finish my reading and worsheets`
`04:37.45`	`*** join/#wowwiki Percephene (n=chatzill@125-236-146-60.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz)`
`04:37.45`	`Bagginsww`	`if I plan to pass the class with a b or a LOL`
`04:38.20`	`Norlando`	`how old is baggins`
`04:39.01`	`Zeal`	`fyi i am editing it...`
`04:39.42`	`Kirkburn`	`ta`
`04:39.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Note sure Norlando`
`04:40.17`	`Kirkburn`	`*not`
`04:40.26`	`Kirkburn`	`At a guess in his 20s`
`04:41.56`	`Percephene`	`hey all im back`
`04:42.02`	`Kirkburn`	`lo`
`04:42.11`	`Percephene`	`:)`
`04:42.56`	`Percephene`	`gnnnah im so bored, i cant cope, release BC already!!!`
`04:45.22`	`*** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Valiento@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)`
`04:45.27`	`Bagginsww`	`http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28338&locale=enUS;source=live`
`04:45.28`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`04:47.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Check out the link farm! http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/01/14/dragonkillers-draenei-and-deranged-elves-an-overview-of-burnin/ :D`
`04:47.06`	`vlad_`	`wiki will be done for a bit tomorrow, hopefully just tomorrow morning (PST)... gonna do some upgrades`
`04:47.22`	`*** join/#wowwiki Marjaya (n=kaylajea@c-67-186-48-179.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)`
`04:47.27`	`Kirkburn`	`vlad_, thanks for the warning, let's hope it goes well!`
`04:47.56`	`vlad_`	`yeah, I don't foresee any problems`
`04:48.18`	`Kirkburn`	`cool`
`04:48.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Btw, did you see my www. comment earlier?`
`04:48.38`	`vlad_`	`but then, if I could foresee problems, I could probably make mad money as a fortune teller, sooo`
`04:48.42`	`Kirkburn`	`haha`
`04:48.44`	`vlad_`	`nope?`
`04:48.56`	`Kirkburn`	`If you remove the www., no images work`
`04:49.17`	`vlad_`	`oh`
`04:49.23`	`vlad_`	`hm, I'll try to fix that`
`04:49.30`	`vlad_`	`is it a big deal?`
`04:49.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah, kinda`
`04:49.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Google searches bring up non www pages`
`04:49.41`	`vlad_`	`I think it got caught by me removing direct linking to images from other sites`
`04:49.46`	`vlad_`	`oh, huh`
`04:49.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah was at the same time :)`
`04:49.57`	`vlad_`	`ok, should be fixable`
`04:50.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Ta`
`04:50.18`	`vlad_`	`I'm going to try to switch web servers at the same time, which /might/ cause problems.. but if it does i'll just bbring up the current one`
`04:50.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Okay`
`04:51.03`	`Percephene`	`yeah i noticed that before, im lazy i just type wow and it comes up`
`04:52.51`	`Kirkburn`	`=) http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/www.wowwiki.com/Main_Page`
`04:53.58`	`Zeal`	`i jsur use "ww: Special:Watchlist" etc :P`
`04:54.01`	`Zeal`	`*just`
`04:54.06`	`Kirkburn`	`Not seen this before: http://www.wowrp.com/wow/Main_Page`
`04:54.14`	`Zeal`	`and there we go, corrected`
`04:54.21`	`Zeal`	`kinda..`
`04:54.27`	`Zeal`	`still i suggest it be deleted`
`04:54.35`	`Kirkburn`	`mmm, poo`
`04:54.39`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`04:54.56`	`Kirkburn`	`At least it's readable now, ta`
`04:55.51`	`Zeal`	`np`
`04:56.04`	`Zeal`	`someone battle = brown :S`
`04:56.29`	`Kirkburn`	`"Bloody earth colour"`
`04:56.29`	`Zeal`	`*somehow`
`04:56.38`	`Zeal`	`perhaps, lol`
`04:59.03`	`Zeal`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_elf_controversy i dislike this page.. for all it tries to be, it is merely a defense for them with arguments that don't hold water.`
`04:59.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Arf`
`04:59.30`	`Kirkburn`	`The copy of TBC I downloaded has no method of install`
`04:59.58`	`Kirkburn`	`4 installer tomes and no .exe`
`04:59.59`	`Zeal`	`.. oh yes you were downloading soemthing random which is more than likely not the launch client and won't help you..`
`05:00.06`	`Kirkburn`	`It is indeed TBC`
`05:00.13`	`Zeal`	`how?`
`05:00.21`	`Kirkburn`	`People got it early`
`05:00.26`	`Zeal`	`wtf?`
`05:00.37`	`Zeal`	`i doubt it`
`05:00.40`	`Kirkburn`	`hohum, I guess I'll have to wait`
`05:00.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Some people got it today, even`
`05:00.51`	`Zeal`	`probably beta packed with a keylogger, heh.`
`05:00.58`	`Kirkburn`	`http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/66686728.htm`
`05:01.01`	`Zeal`	`no one should have it today..`
`05:01.07`	`Bagginsww`	`zeal that page is better there than where it used to be`
`05:01.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Post is fast sometimes`
`05:01.21`	`Bagginsww`	`used to take up half of Blood Elf`
`05:01.36`	`Bagginsww`	`and there was one for draenei too`
`05:01.48`	`Bagginsww`	`that took up a good portion of that topic`
`05:01.56`	`Zeal`	`a manaual for each race and gender..?`
`05:02.09`	`Zeal`	`i know baggins`
`05:02.20`	`Zeal`	`its just my opinion they shouldn't really exist`
`05:02.20`	`Bagginsww`	`I hope in future we can remove it once BC is out`
`05:02.30`	`Bagginsww`	`and people see there really is no controversy`
`05:02.35`	`Bagginsww`	`that the lore is well written`
`05:02.54`	`Zeal`	`i still have major issues with the classes for belves`
`05:03.05`	`Bagginsww`	`people complained about night elves joining allianc,e and udnead joining horde, but no one seems to anymore`
`05:03.12`	`Bagginsww`	`which ones?`
`05:03.20`	`Zeal`	`rogues over hunter and warrior.`
`05:03.31`	`Zeal`	`and the subsequent drop of warriors`
`05:03.40`	`Bagginsww`	`hunter fits into the nature loving elven rangers imo`
`05:04.07`	`Bagginsww`	`they still seem to have that love of nature from few quests I did`
`05:04.12`	`Zeal`	`mhm`
`05:04.22`	`Zeal`	`hunters and warriors should be classes, not rogues.`
`05:04.36`	`Zeal`	`but then i don;t think rogues should exist. or warocks for that matter..`
`05:04.37`	`Bagginsww`	`I thought hey had hunters?`
`05:05.07`	`Zeal`	`no, my point was they posted about they selection process. they said they came down to having to choose betwen hunter and warrior`
`05:05.14`	`Zeal`	`both classes that should be in by default`
`05:05.20`	`Bagginsww`	`ahh`
`05:05.23`	`Zeal`	`rogues however shouldn't`
`05:05.36`	`Bagginsww`	`oddly blood knights play almost warrior like`
`05:05.47`	`Bagginsww`	`well swords over hammers`
`05:05.55`	`Bagginsww`	`but keeping magical motif`
`05:06.23`	`Bagginsww`	`I've heard rumors that there might have been issues with mana tap and rage`
`05:06.32`	`Bagginsww`	`that it didn't fit that well`
`05:06.35`	`Zeal`	`up, but them i look at it form a lore stand point nad reality. priests don;t become paladins just form a naaru.. they need combat training, and for that to exist, a warrior class needs to exist.`
`05:06.58`	`Zeal`	`i don't see why not : /`
`05:07.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Yay!`
`05:07.05`	`Bagginsww`	`they had swordsman in tft I think?`
`05:07.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Found the installer`
`05:07.12`	`Zeal`	`could easily be adapted, not like it has strict rules.`
`05:07.13`	`Kirkburn`	`It's a separate zip`
`05:07.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Do you want the dl Zeal?`
`05:07.22`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_Elf_Swordsman`
`05:07.22`	`Zeal`	`nope`
`05:07.27`	`Kirkburn`	`k`
`05:07.32`	`Zeal`	`though i do want the link`
`05:07.37`	`Kirkburn`	`It's enGB, amazingly :P`
`05:07.53`	`Zeal`	`at least that guy likes taz...`
`05:08.00`	`Bagginsww`	`I still think dwarves should have mages LOL`
`05:08.13`	`Bagginsww`	`but I didn't get my dwarven mage :p`
`05:08.26`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet early WoW beta they existed`
`05:08.38`	`Bagginsww`	`even made it into the manual LOL`
`05:08.52`	`*** part/#wowwiki Percephene (n=chatzill@125-236-146-60.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz)`
`05:09.53`	`Bagginsww`	`http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=2072&locale=enUS;source=live`
`05:09.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, isohunt has it`
`05:10.39`	`Zeal`	`interesting Kirkburn, it's an ausie that got it, which makes perfect sense, yet you have a enGB version?`
`05:11.05`	`Kirkburn`	`The torrent is nearly 2 days old`
`05:11.38`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm guessing it's from a store`
`05:11.48`	`Zeal`	`"Well thats just GREAT! TBC installs at 2.0.6 and to content to server its wants to downgrade o.O wtf " funny, lol`
`05:11.53`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`05:12.27`	`Kirkburn`	`There's a fair few pissed off people at the torrent as it wasn't advertised as enGB`
`05:12.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Humoured me =)`
`05:12.41`	`Zeal`	`haha`
`05:13.19`	`Kirkburn`	`The installer doesn't appear to have destroyed my machine ;)`
`05:13.37`	`Kirkburn`	`I wonder how it comes`
`05:13.43`	`Kirkburn`	`If the installer is a separate file ...`
`05:13.49`	`Kirkburn`	`I guess it's downloaded?`
`05:13.51`	`Zeal`	`"Anybody else get an image of Tseric and Drysc dressed in important looking suits, reaching into their coat pockets, and pulling away keycards that they swipe simultaneously through a lock which unleashes the button? Then Tigole strolls up ominously in a huge black trenchcoat/cape and flings it behind him shouting "THEY ARE NOT PREPARED!" and just smashes the button with his fist? "`
`05:13.51`	`Zeal`	`rofl`
`05:14.07`	`Zeal`	`it shouldn't be`
`05:14.19`	`Zeal`	`each tome is on a disc, the installer on disc 1`
`05:14.23`	`Kirkburn`	`It's definately not on the .isos which is strange`
`05:14.24`	`Zeal`	`same as with wow.`
`05:14.36`	`Zeal`	`which makes me concerned`
`05:14.57`	`Zeal`	`perhaps the installer had a lock on it to not work until a certain date is reached on your pc :P`
`05:15.05`	`Kirkburn`	`Woo!`
`05:15.06`	`Zeal`	`so thet cracked it, lol`
`05:15.10`	`Kirkburn`	`"Install Burning Crusade"`
`05:15.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Jiminy! And off it goes`
`05:16.16`	`Zeal`	`IM IN YUR OUTLANDS`
`05:16.16`	`Zeal`	`RAISING MY FACTIONS`
`05:16.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Now, given that I have it - I've not heard from HMV since I placed my collector's edition order with them`
`05:16.19`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`05:16.35`	`Zeal`	`same kirkburn`
`05:16.42`	`Kirkburn`	`HMV too?`
`05:16.43`	`Zeal`	`my pre-order is with amazon : /`
`05:16.46`	`Kirkburn`	`ah`
`05:17.06`	`Kirkburn`	`I may have to go down into Bristol town centre on Tuesday morning`
`05:17.29`	`Zeal`	`i'm not going to the signing`
`05:17.39`	`Zeal`	`no idea when i'll be out of there`
`05:17.52`	`Zeal`	`and no way of getting there and back except train.`
`05:18.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Where are you atm?`
`05:19.06`	`Zeal`	`middlesex :P`
`05:20.28`	`Zeal`	`lol near heathrow`
`05:21.15`	`Kirkburn`	`aha :)`
`05:21.30`	`Kirkburn`	`85%`
`05:22.47`	`Kirkburn`	`17 hours 38 minutes`
`05:22.55`	`Kirkburn`	`That's what it says on the upgrade page`
`05:23.02`	`Zeal`	`roth interview btw. http://www.blizzplanet.com/content/668`
`05:24.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Okay, useful to look at later`
`05:25.11`	`Kirkburn`	`omg loading`
`05:25.55`	`Kirkburn`	`omg cinematic!`
`05:28.03`	`Kirkburn`	`omg Illidan`
`05:28.36`	`Kirkburn`	`omg title screen I guess`
`05:31.04`	`Kirkburn`	`I wonder if I should let Baggins know there's an addon called ... Baggins`
`05:32.06`	`Zeal`	`rofl`
`05:32.23`	`Zeal`	`does it say you are not prepared? :p`
`05:32.28`	`Kirkburn`	`219MB of patches`
`05:32.32`	`Zeal`	`cos i'm fairly sure you're not XD`
`05:32.36`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`05:32.37`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`05:32.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, I have no bloomin key of course`
`05:39.08`	`Zeal`	`ofc`
`05:41.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Fun: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070115/win98-sampler-pack/`
`05:47.04`	`*** join/#wowwiki kasatopia (n=kas@ip70-174-43-154.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`05:53.35`	`Zeal`	`heh`
`05:53.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Gotta set up all my settings again!`
`05:54.14`	`Zeal`	`you can do that outside of the game?`
`05:54.39`	`Kirkburn`	`I saved my beta files, so should be okay`
`05:54.45`	`Zeal`	`hm..`
`05:54.56`	`Kirkburn`	`But all my spells are in the wrong places, I was used to my level 70 setup!`
`05:55.08`	`Zeal`	`so i take it you can;'t even logon with it to play wow? did it install over wow?`
`05:55.36`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm logged in`
`05:55.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Chillwind Camp atm`
`05:55.44`	`Zeal`	`oooh`
`05:55.48`	`Zeal`	`thats fine then`
`05:56.15`	`Zeal`	`that ausie made it sound like it didn't actually allow it to even get on`
`05:56.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Gonna get myself ready for going to Outland - dump a whole load of quests`
`05:56.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Nope, it's fine`
`05:56.58`	`Kirkburn`	`it install 2.0.0`
`05:57.06`	`Zeal`	`why dumo? if they're 60 quests, may aswell do them :P`
`05:57.19`	`Zeal`	`i thought its 2.0.6?`
`06:00.06`	`Kirkburn`	`That was US remember, might be different`
`06:00.06`	`Kirkburn`	`It should install 2.0.0 though`
`06:00.06`	`Zeal`	`yeah.. but still, i would except it to attempt to patch to the live version :P`
`06:00.06`	`Kirkburn`	`Indeed it did`
`06:00.07`	`Zeal`	`being 2.0.4 iirc`
`06:00.07`	`Kirkburn`	`Yup`
`06:00.07`	`Zeal`	`i see`
`06:00.07`	`Zeal`	`interesting..`
`06:00.08`	`Kirkburn`	`To Ironforge!`
`06:00.08`	`Zeal`	`doesn't sound right, but interesting.`
`06:01.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Even better is that I now know what to keep and what to throw away`
`06:02.19`	`Zeal`	`well i won't be in outland`
`06:02.28`	`Zeal`	`i'll be making a belf pala`
`06:02.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Ouch the sound is weirdy`
`06:02.51`	`Zeal`	`though apparently my intended guild has moved server again witout telling me until today..`
`06:02.57`	`Zeal`	`probably the new sound settings?`
`06:03.20`	`Zeal`	`so i can actually bring my hunter across really.`
`06:04.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Nah, Creative's Vista drivers are shite`
`06:04.20`	`Kirkburn`	`Turn on anti-aliasing "OMG DEATH!"`
`06:04.25`	`Kirkburn`	`No, it doesn't make sense`
`06:05.23`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`06:05.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh crud`
`06:05.31`	`Zeal`	`forgot about you being on vista`
`06:05.46`	`Kirkburn`	`My server specific settings won't transfer of course`
`06:08.22`	`Kirkburn`	`And oh crap, I didn't delete the WoW folder before I reinstalled`
`06:08.33`	`Kirkburn`	`meaning all my old stuff was there`
`06:08.51`	`Kirkburn`	`God I'm such a tit`
`06:08.51`	`Zeal`	`thats a problem why?`
`06:09.00`	`Kirkburn`	`The old addon files, etc`
`06:09.10`	`Zeal`	`they've gone?`
`06:09.20`	`Kirkburn`	`No, they were the old stuff`
`06:09.32`	`Zeal`	`does it matter? :S`
`06:09.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Not really, deleted it all now`
`06:10.28`	`Kirkburn`	`BLOODY CREATIVE`
`06:11.00`	`Kirkburn`	`I suppose it could be the fact this is a Vista beta, but grrr`
`06:14.28`	`Kirkburn`	`ARGH`
`06:14.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Now I was modifiying for the WRONG resolution`
`06:14.43`	`Kirkburn`	`No wonder everything was blurry`
`06:14.50`	`Kirkburn`	`And in the wrong place`
`06:15.12`	`Zeal`	`seems ome of our wikians are as biased on the appendix3 stuff as the crazy people at SoL... sighs got a feeling ragestorm sides with the bias too, but meh.`
`06:15.20`	`Zeal`	`*seems some`
`06:15.40`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`06:15.55`	`Zeal`	`anyways.. i'm off to bed, enjoy vista :P`
`06:16.05`	`Kirkburn`	`See ya`
`06:18.28`	`zeal`	`heh.. strixus' real name is Ness Creighton`
`06:18.37`	`zeal`	`yeah, ty :p`
`06:18.42`	`zeal`	`*cya`
`06:30.40`	`beeyatch`	`Morning`
`06:30.51`	`beeyatch`	`bahh... firstworkday since 3 weeks`
`06:31.57`	`Kirkburn`	`hullo`
`07:05.03`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`07:05.03`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`07:08.33`	`*** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Valiento@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)`
`07:08.42`	`*** join/#wowwiki fLUx-- (n=chatzill@AC8DCE12.ipt.aol.com)`
`07:08.51`	`fLUx--`	`good morning! ;)`
`07:08.51`	`Bagginsww`	`well the email spam is now up to 14 LOL`
`07:09.32`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`07:09.32`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`07:09.58`	`Bagginsww`	`oh good there is a way to remove myself from my own watch list LOL`
`07:13.19`	`fLUx--`	`hey, where do i get wands from in wow? Normal weopons supplier?`
`07:27.27`	`Fin`	`morning!`
`07:30.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Gonna try my felguard on live realm for the first time :D`
`07:33.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh god.`
`07:33.17`	`Kirkburn`	`His name is Flaathun`
`07:35.19`	`*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-65-37.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`07:42.11`	`Fin`	`bye!`
`08:54.58`	`dooley`	`ok`
`08:55.00`	`dooley`	`shit`
`08:55.03`	`dooley`	`jack is a badass`
`08:55.08`	`dooley`	`this show is great`
`08:55.36`	`*** part/#wowwiki dooley (n=Shaqfu@ip68-225-163-114.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`08:57.54`	`*** join/#wowwiki dotted (n=me@194.182.114.197)`
`09:44.09`	`*** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`11:56.47`	`*** join/#wowwiki fLUx-- (n=chatzill@AC8DCE12.ipt.aol.com)`
`11:56.56`	`fLUx--`	`grhh.....since the new patch has been installed, my client crashes as soon as it loads to the login screen! :(`
`12:06.44`	`*** join/#wowwiki Boydon (n=chatzill@85-18-136-70.fastres.net)`
`12:15.00`	`*** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`12:44.12`	`*** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`12:58.30`	`*** join/#wowwiki [Zeal] (n=zeal@host86-139-24-15.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
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`13:41.53`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tepetkhet (n=Tepetkhe@office70.corp.sspan.net)`
`13:42.04`	`Tepetkhet`	`Hello.`
`13:45.33`	`*** join/#wowwiki Patrigan-Syldra (n=iron_pla@127.0-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`13:45.43`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hi everyone`
`13:47.52`	`Tepetkhet`	`Morning.`
`13:49.02`	`*** join/#wowwiki Wille88 (i=wille@dsl-jnsbrasgw1-fe7cfb00-83.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`13:49.44`	`equiraptor`	`Well, maybe I'll get my mage to level 50 today.`
`13:50.16`	`Tepetkhet`	`Or you could wait until tomorrow and make a Blood Elf on Khaz Modan. ;)`
`13:50.38`	`*** part/#wowwiki Wille88 (i=wille@dsl-jnsbrasgw1-fe7cfb00-83.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`13:50.48`	`equiraptor`	`:-P`
`13:50.55`	`equiraptor`	`I won't have TBC tomorrow.`
`13:50.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`think it'll be better to wait till day after tomorrow`
`13:51.03`	`Tepetkhet`	`Er, Saturday.`
`13:51.05`	`Tepetkhet`	`Whenever.`
`13:51.09`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`or get him summoned to some other starting zone`
`13:51.34`	`equiraptor`	`heh`
`13:51.50`	`equiraptor`	`Well, I think my first few BE and Draenei will be exploring characters.`
`13:51.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`hm`
`13:52.03`	`equiraptor`	`Once I get a feel for the starting areas, I'll roll my "real" ones, on my main servers.`
`13:53.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`Wow.`
`13:53.47`	`Tepetkhet`	`One day and my old guild's already down to 86 members (+19 Alts).`
`13:54.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you quitted it?`
`13:54.09`	`Tepetkhet`	`Yes.`
`13:54.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`aw :(`
`13:54.32`	`Tepetkhet`	`I also took most of the warriors with me.`
`13:54.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`13:54.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if you are europe`
`13:54.47`	`Tepetkhet`	`A priest, a druid (who was also the DKP officer)...`
`13:54.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`then I urge you to rerolla healer on Shattered hand Europe!`
`13:55.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Alliance side`
`13:55.03`	`Tepetkhet`	`And a shaman.`
`13:55.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I'm gonna create a healer class only guild`
`13:55.11`	`Tepetkhet`	`And I am very much Horde.`
`13:55.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`And US.`
`13:55.25`	`Tepetkhet`	`Sorry.`
`13:55.33`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`aw :(`
`13:55.37`	`Tepetkhet`	`I formed my own guild.`
`13:55.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`sad :<`
`13:55.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`I didn't want to work my butt off for somebody else again.`
`13:56.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`just for yourself?`
`13:56.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`Not exactly what I meant.`
`13:56.35`	`sancus`	`-> hfc -> grind -> nagrand`
`13:56.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I know, but in my evil mind I tend to twist people's words`
`13:56.43`	`Tepetkhet`	`I didn't want to work my butt off for somebody else who is, as it turns out, a very unpleasant human being.`
`13:57.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hehe :)`
`13:57.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I hope I'm a pleasant being to my members...`
`13:57.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I always wonder that oO`
`13:59.03`	`sancus`	`I don't know very many good guild leaders who are also pleasant`
`13:59.24`	`Tepetkhet`	`This is true.`
`13:59.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`I can be a raging psychob****.`
`13:59.39`	`Tepetkhet`	`But I always try to be fair.`
`13:59.47`	`sancus`	`The best tend to be something like pleasant, if not quite the same, though.`
`14:00.05`	`sancus`	`There's a lot of guild leaders of major end-game guilds who are little better than children, like Fury's GL.`
`14:00.11`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:00.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`Hmmm...`
`14:00.21`	`Tepetkhet`	`I think my server has mysql installed.`
`14:00.25`	`Tepetkhet`	`I thought I only had postgresql.`
`14:00.49`	`Tepetkhet`	`And yet here is /usr/local/bin/mysql`
`14:02.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well sancus`
`14:02.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I really hope I am not counted to that list`
`14:02.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but I heard many Guild leaders do'nt even know anything about a class other than theirs...`
`14:02.46`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I took,a whole week to learn the basics and a bit advanced stuff from each class`
`14:02.55`	`Tepetkhet`	`hm`
`14:03.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`Well, that's what class leaders are for. ;)`
`14:03.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well Tepetkhet`
`14:03.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Class leaders are for that yes`
`14:03.33`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but a GL who doesn't even know what a warrior stance is...`
`14:03.40`	`Tepetkhet`	`uh`
`14:03.54`	`Tepetkhet`	`I explained what the "stance dance" is to a warrior who was going to offtank Ony.`
`14:04.03`	`Tepetkhet`	`Does that count?`
`14:04.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`stance dance and knowing what stances are is abig difference`
`14:04.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`stance dance is more an advanced technique (or even close to a master technique XD)`
`14:04.41`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:05.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`I am still learning.`
`14:05.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well everyone always is`
`14:05.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`I know rogues.`
`14:05.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:05.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`14:05.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I know rogues die a lot!`
`14:05.28`	`Tepetkhet`	`I have a good warrior and priest at my disposal.`
`14:05.35`	`Tepetkhet`	`well`
`14:05.42`	`Tepetkhet`	`Rogues need to learn to feint`
`14:05.46`	`Tepetkhet`	`And back out and bandage.`
`14:05.46`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yup!`
`14:05.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and need to learn to use bandies`
`14:06.11`	`Tepetkhet`	`And delete that damage meter.`
`14:06.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`Please.`
`14:06.21`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nah`
`14:06.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`just use it together with threat meters`
`14:06.28`	`Tepetkhet`	`"I'm top of the DPS charts! I'm top of the DPS charts!"`
`14:06.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`Ahhhh, shaddup.`
`14:06.47`	`Tepetkhet`	`Well, some people get too caught up in where they are on the chart.`
`14:06.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we managed to make our players pump everything out without overDPSing`
`14:06.52`	`Tepetkhet`	`And DPS call be damned.`
`14:07.09`	`*** join/#wowwiki Pastoolio (n=null@intranet.fixx.co.za)`
`14:07.10`	`sancus`	`there aren't really any difficult game mechanics in WoW, so it's not hard to get a decent understanding of every class, heh`
`14:07.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`In other words, they don't wait for DPS start to be called.`
`14:07.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`Ewwww! Pastoolio!`
`14:07.32`	`Tepetkhet`	`er, umbrella`
`14:07.33`	`Pastoolio`	`what? innocent look`
`14:07.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`DPS call? We didn't even have that`
`14:07.54`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`5 seconds rule`
`14:08.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`or better said the Sunder rule`
`14:08.06`	`sancus`	`there arent really any aggro issues after bwl, except like.. ouro`
`14:08.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`"NO DPS before first sunder is in, then go all out everyone but warlocks"`
`14:08.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`Passion flows through my veins like radioactive rubber pants!`
`14:08.37`	`sancus`	`bwl sure sucked though :/`
`14:08.54`	`Tepetkhet`	`I never even entered BWL.`
`14:09.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`I'm so sorry...`
`14:09.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`^^`
`14:09.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`ANyways`
`14:09.08`	`sancus`	`Fortunately I never had to deal with some of the things I heard about though, like people making mages wand on broodlord, rofl`
`14:09.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`back to studies`
`14:09.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`cyaz`
`14:09.26`	`sancus`	`er`
`14:09.36`	`sancus`	`never entered bwl? that's kinda sad :(`
`14:10.24`	`sancus`	`I really really hope we go back and do Naxx once post-BC, and not just because I have an atiesh to complete, I want to see Sapph and Kel at least once`
`14:11.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`I have been playing for a year.`
`14:12.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`Our guild started raiding the end of August.`
`14:12.08`	`Tepetkhet`	`But we barely had enough for 20-mans.`
`14:12.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`Most players in the guild were first-timers.`
`14:12.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`There's a relatively small player base on my server.`
`14:12.54`	`Tepetkhet`	`So it's not really surprising.`
`14:14.37`	`Tepetkhet`	`I need to create a website...`
`14:15.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`I am pondering. Do I set it up on my own server which is a bit slow?`
`14:15.23`	`Tepetkhet`	`Do I use one of those services like guildlaunch or guildportal?`
`14:15.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`hm`
`14:16.44`	`sancus`	`why is your server slow?`
`14:17.01`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (n=Tuqui-tu@smtp.badertv.com)`
`14:17.24`	`sancus`	`Seems like even a pretty simple server would be sufficient to host a small guild site`
`14:18.00`	`equiraptor`	`Well, my server's pretty slow, but it's on a 768kbps upstream.`
`14:18.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`1) Hardware is ancient. 2) Bandwidth is capped at 768k/768k.`
`14:18.23`	`beeyatch`	`lalala`
`14:18.25`	`beeyatch`	`blubb blubb :o)`
`14:18.45`	`beeyatch`	`Tepetkhet: what a question :)`
`14:18.47`	`beeyatch`	`get some free space`
`14:18.49`	`sancus`	`that still seems like it ought to be fine, unless you're serving files off it or something, ofc if you're willing to pay for some other service, use that!`
`14:18.53`	`beeyatch`	`and start your first steps`
`14:19.02`	`equiraptor`	`Images load really slowly, sancus.`
`14:19.08`	`Tepetkhet`	`Well, yes. We're serving files.`
`14:19.15`	`equiraptor`	`for an idea, try browsing my gallery: http://equiraptor.com/gallery`
`14:19.15`	`beeyatch`	`oO`
`14:19.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`Site is home to a couple DJs who serve their sets.`
`14:19.55`	`sancus`	`equiraptor: That actually seems more than fast enough to me for a guild site`
`14:20.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`And here.`
`14:20.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`http://www.niceboots.com/~tenebrae/misc/wow/Tabard01.jpg`
`14:20.15`	`equiraptor`	`While it would "do," it wouldn't leave a good impression, to me.`
`14:20.21`	`Tepetkhet`	`That's a pic on my site.`
`14:20.23`	`equiraptor`	`But, I guess I'm an elitest geek.`
`14:20.50`	`equiraptor`	`A guild with a website that doesn't make me wait for images (even a bit) will be more appealing than one that does.`
`14:21.00`	`beeyatch`	`uhm`
`14:21.00`	`sancus`	`Tepet: Ouch, yeah, that is pretty bad`
`14:21.00`	`beeyatch`	`lol`
`14:21.07`	`beeyatch`	`use a free service? :o`
`14:21.15`	`sancus`	`You get what you pay for :P`
`14:21.21`	`equiraptor`	`But I'd see using a free service even worse. ;P`
`14:21.30`	`beeyatch`	`equiraptor: depends on.`
`14:21.31`	`fLUx--`	`what the hell?! Just done a quest...the man took the gold dust off me, and its not given me anything (gold dust showing 0/10!!) :( :(`
`14:21.37`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Im close to getting my wolf mount :D`
`14:21.40`	`sancus`	`equiraptor: Sure, if it were my guild I wouldn't find that acceptable either, but I wouldn't mind it really.`
`14:21.59`	`beeyatch`	`equiraptor: if you want it for your wow guild`
`14:22.03`	`beeyatch`	`i may can host it for you`
`14:22.04`	`sancus`	`heck my guild used to be a pretty major horde guild and we just use the dkp news crap as the front page :P`
`14:22.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:22.22`	`equiraptor`	`beeyatch: When my guild needed hosting, my bf put it on his colo'd machine.`
`14:22.23`	`Tepetkhet`	`Most of the free sites are supported by banner ads.`
`14:22.39`	`beeyatch`	`ah equiraptor damn i mean Tepetkhet :)`
`14:22.42`	`Tepetkhet`	`And I am not interested in that.`
`14:22.47`	`equiraptor`	`:)`
`14:22.53`	`beeyatch`	`Tepetkhet: i will do it for a linkback to my wow site.`
`14:23.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:23.23`	`Tepetkhet`	`Even though my site is slow, I would kind of still like to use it for my guild because then I'll have full control of it.`
`14:23.27`	`beeyatch`	`1gbit, 10gb traffic, 1gb webspac, php, mysql, ruby...`
`14:23.43`	`sancus`	`I have a couple of colo'd machines but I'm pretty sure I would regret it if I started hosting random people's guild site`
`14:23.44`	`sancus`	`+s`
`14:23.57`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:24.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`Thank you for your suggestions and offers. I'm sure I'll end up either using my site or paying for a site myself.`
`14:24.22`	`sancus`	`webspace is pretty cheap these days, I'd just get an account somewhere`
`14:24.26`	`Tepetkhet`	`I need command line access.`
`14:24.32`	`Tepetkhet`	`Which is hard to come by.`
`14:24.45`	`sancus`	`er what for?`
`14:25.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`Because I prefer editing files using vi.`
`14:25.13`	`equiraptor`	`It's times like this when I wish I had a colo'd machine.`
`14:25.17`	`sancus`	`Well, that's a preference not a requirement :P`
`14:25.26`	`sancus`	`But yes, you'll have trouble getting that for a cheap price`
`14:25.32`	`Tepetkhet`	`It will irritate me if I don't have it.`
`14:25.34`	`Tepetkhet`	`Let's put it that way.`
`14:25.45`	`Tepetkhet`	`My old guild's site didn't have command line access.`
`14:25.49`	`Tepetkhet`	`And it irritated me.`
`14:25.55`	`sancus`	`your best bet is to find someone with a colo'd machine who will give you a plain old ssh account`
`14:26.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`I had to work around things.`
`14:26.19`	`Tepetkhet`	`sancus: Well, I have a colo'd machine, but it's the old slow one.`
`14:26.19`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:26.25`	`sancus`	`yes, I meant with decent bandwidth and hardware :p`
`14:26.31`	`sancus`	`most likely the hardware part is fairly irrelevant`
`14:27.21`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah.`
`14:27.24`	`sancus`	`a p3 would host a half dozen small guild sites without breaking a sweat`
`14:27.30`	`equiraptor`	`Unless you're going to be hitting some fat databases.`
`14:27.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`Well`
`14:27.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`This isn't a PIII`
`14:28.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`This is an AMD K6-2/266MHz`
`14:28.46`	`sancus`	`how much ram, 256?`
`14:29.27`	`Tepetkhet`	`320MB`
`14:29.49`	`sancus`	`it'd probably be fine`
`14:29.58`	`Tepetkhet`	`Max for that mobo is 384MB`
`14:30.03`	`sancus`	`the 768kbps bandwidth is going to kill your loading times no matter what you do, though`
`14:30.08`	`Tepetkhet`	`yeah`
`14:31.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`That's why I'm wondering...`
`14:31.33`	`Tepetkhet`	`If I open up the pipe, it might get my colo co mad at me.`
`14:31.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`I'm only paying them $10/month.`
`14:31.45`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:32.02`	`Tepetkhet`	`They're my old employer and are basically hosting me in gratis.`
`14:32.12`	`Tepetkhet`	`I left my colo there.`
`14:33.39`	`sancus`	`all you can do is ask, and if you do hardly any volume I dont see why they'd care`
`14:33.55`	`Tepetkhet`	`Well, it was a problem in the past.`
`14:33.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`Which is why I put the cap in place.`
`14:34.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`But...hm.`
`14:34.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`I think I'll try removing it.`
`14:34.41`	`Tepetkhet`	`And I will also send them more money in the form of new domain registration and DNS hosting.`
`14:36.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`What I COULD do is run the main site on my server...and host the pics elsewhere.`
`14:36.23`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I have a question`
`14:36.34`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`if I buy the mounting skill`
`14:36.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`is that for ALL mounts?`
`14:36.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`or just the mount Im about to buy`
`14:36.49`	`Tepetkhet`	`All mounts.`
`14:36.49`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah....`
`14:36.53`	`equiraptor`	`It's for all mounts of that level.`
`14:37.01`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`cool`
`14:37.03`	`Tepetkhet`	`I am undead and bought the epic riding skill.`
`14:37.04`	`equiraptor`	`(So the 75 skill is for all "rare" or normal mounts)`
`14:37.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`can I have multiple mounts?`
`14:37.12`	`equiraptor`	`Yes`
`14:37.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`Then I could ride my Swift Razzashi Raptor.`
`14:37.45`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`schweet :D`
`14:37.45`	`equiraptor`	`obviously, you can only use one at a time.`
`14:37.45`	`Tepetkhet`	`And then I went out and bought my Frostwolf.`
`14:37.45`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`<--- going for kodo AND wolf`
`14:37.45`	`equiraptor`	`But you can have mulitple in your inventory.`
`14:37.53`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`coolio`
`14:38.05`	`Tepetkhet`	`Okay so...now I think I know what I'll do for the site...`
`14:38.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`As far as hosting.`
`14:38.18`	`Tepetkhet`	`Next up.`
`14:38.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`Framework.`
`14:38.25`	`Tepetkhet`	`Need forums etc.`
`14:38.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`PhPbb`
`14:38.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`no`
`14:38.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and get forumitems`
`14:38.49`	`equiraptor`	`We'd been using Drupal.`
`14:38.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`stop using that`
`14:38.58`	`equiraptor`	`Which was nice, but the forums aren't great.`
`14:39.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`Too many security issues for PhPbb.`
`14:39.11`	`Tepetkhet`	`Old site was using e_107`
`14:39.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's how you set it up though ^^`
`14:39.32`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and tbh`
`14:39.46`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`do you need to protect your forum to the most dangerous hackers?`
`14:40.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`PhPbb is very nice as it has forumitems`
`14:40.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`a downloadable mod`
`14:40.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that allows you to install itemlinking on your forum`
`14:40.39`	`Tepetkhet`	`Yes, I do, Patrigan.`
`14:40.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`Everybody should.`
`14:41.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`If everybody took care to protect their servers and computers, then there would be fewer computers for the spammers to exploit.`
`14:41.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so with [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item]`
`14:41.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and it would give me a pop up`
`14:41.16`	`Tepetkhet`	`yes`
`14:41.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Tepetkhet`
`14:41.23`	`Tepetkhet`	`Patrigan-Syldra: We had that with e_107, too.`
`14:41.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you did? oh nice ^^`
`14:41.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`though`
`14:41.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`PhPbb ha a lot for security though`
`14:41.47`	`sancus`	`<3 vanilla`
`14:41.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`anti spam by putting a post timer`
`14:41.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`Let me put it this way.`
`14:42.04`	`Tepetkhet`	`I am on the bugtraq mailing list.`
`14:42.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`forced account creation which has to get past your authorisation`
`14:42.25`	`Tepetkhet`	`And I've seen PhPbb on it enough to simply not be interested.`
`14:42.35`	`sancus`	`number of bugs is irrelevant`
`14:42.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`You will not sway me, but thanks for the suggestions.`
`14:42.45`	`sancus`	`how fast they're fixed is relevant`
`14:42.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Well, I have never encountered many bugs tbh`
`14:43.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I don't know what you want to do with your forums`
`14:43.20`	`sancus`	`phpbb does have fairly frequent security issues, iirc they resolve them fairly fast, but I've never paid that much attention since I don't really care`
`14:43.25`	`Tepetkhet`	`I have heard vanilla mentioned.`
`14:43.27`	`equiraptor`	`Number of exploitable vulnerabilities is what's important, not number of bugs.`
`14:43.37`	`sancus`	`no I'd disagree`
`14:43.47`	`sancus`	`number of exploitable vulnerabilities is fairly irrelevant, it's how fast they're fixed that I'd care about`
`14:43.58`	`Tepetkhet`	`It's a target.`
`14:44.03`	`sancus`	`Because it's better to have 100 vulnerabilities that are fixed 4 hours after they're reported, than to have 1 that goes unfixed for a month.`
`14:44.04`	`Tepetkhet`	`phpbb`
`14:44.07`	`Tepetkhet`	`I mean`
`14:44.10`	`equiraptor`	`No, the number absolutely is important, too.`
`14:44.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`may I remind you`
`14:44.25`	`equiraptor`	`I'm saying "exploitable vulnerabilities" is the thing to watch, not "bugs".`
`14:44.33`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you're still having justa forum for a guild...`
`14:44.37`	`sancus`	`any major forum software is going to have more vulnerabilities reported than an obscure one`
`14:44.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and PhPbb is just the easiest to work with`
`14:45.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and you can secure it pretty much to resist everything, except for the occasional bug`
`14:45.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but only those wise noses can get past that`
`14:45.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and if yuo're really worried`
`14:45.27`	`Tepetkhet`	`Please.`
`14:45.29`	`Tepetkhet`	`Pat.`
`14:45.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`just take a frequent back up...`
`14:45.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Well...`
`14:45.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`It's just a golden advice`
`14:45.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`It's not just MY site that I'm concerned about.`
`14:45.47`	`sancus`	`people can use whatever software they like :P`
`14:45.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`If it's exploited, then OTHER people get hit with spam etc.`
`14:46.04`	`Tepetkhet`	`Not interested.`
`14:46.05`	`sancus`	`arguable`
`14:46.07`	`Tepetkhet`	`Thank you.`
`14:46.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Tepetkhet you can server side make it so that a hacker can only accss the files from the PhPbb`
`14:46.33`	`sancus`	`Then you should really stop arguing nonsensical points :P`
`14:46.37`	`Tepetkhet`	`I said I'm not interested.`
`14:46.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`ah well ^^`
`14:46.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but remember`
`14:46.50`	`Orclev`	`came in in the middle of this`
`14:46.52`	`*** part/#wowwiki Tepetkhet (n=Tepetkhe@office70.corp.sspan.net)`
`14:46.56`	`*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-82-224.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`14:46.56`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`14:47.03`	`Orclev`	`what forum software was he talking about?`
`14:47.08`	`equiraptor`	`She`
`14:47.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`PhPbb`
`14:47.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I don't get her`
`14:47.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you can protect every single file in itself`
`14:47.44`	`equiraptor`	`So run Windows for your server.`
`14:47.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so that even if the hacker manages toa ccess the server, he still ahs to access the files...`
`14:47.48`	`equiraptor`	`You can secure that.`
`14:47.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nah`
`14:48.00`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Linux`
`14:48.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`works perfect`
`14:48.17`	`equiraptor`	`And she'd rather find something else that works well than try to secure PhPBB.`
`14:48.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`noone ever managed to get past the second barrier on my server`
`14:48.27`	`equiraptor`	`Is that really such a horrible thing to you?`
`14:48.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`no, but let me put it this way`
`14:48.39`	`sancus`	`huh?`
`14:48.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`in comparison`
`14:48.41`	`sancus`	`that doesn't make sense either`
`14:48.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`PhPbb`
`14:48.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`is the easiest BY FAR to set up`
`14:48.52`	`sancus`	`you have to do the same steps(and you SHOULD do the same steps) to secure any given forum software`
`14:49.00`	`sancus`	`there's nothing 'special' you'd do with phpbb`
`14:49.09`	`equiraptor`	`Well, that depends on what the software defaults are.`
`14:49.17`	`Orclev`	`hmm, I use custom software I wrote myself. It's very secure, and fully customized for what I need.`
`14:49.25`	`equiraptor`	`You know what you have to do to secure an OpenBSD box? Nothing.`
`14:49.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`seeing that she already has a lot of worries with her new webpage it's a whole lot better to start out with a PhPbb based forum`
`14:49.28`	`equiraptor`	`You know what you have to do to secure a Windows box? A lot.`
`14:49.37`	`equiraptor`	`Different software has different needs.`
`14:49.40`	`Orclev`	`I use Gentoo linux for my server`
`14:50.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Linux is best afaik`
`14:50.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Windows has too many flaws`
`14:50.20`	`equiraptor`	`That depends on what you need.`
`14:50.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`for forums`
`14:50.27`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Linux is best`
`14:50.36`	`equiraptor`	`OpenBSD is by far the easiest OS to get and keep secure.`
`14:50.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it's dependant on what you need in this conversation`
`14:50.40`	`Orclev`	`I would never run a public server on a Windows system`
`14:50.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`as we are discussing forums`
`14:50.43`	`equiraptor`	`Assuming you know enough about it.`
`14:50.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yes equiraptor`
`14:50.59`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and how much work will it take to learn it?`
`14:51.10`	`equiraptor`	`From a *nix background, not that much.`
`14:51.15`	`equiraptor`	`At least, it didn't take me much.`
`14:51.15`	`Orclev`	`OpenBSD is nice, although it's license can chafe somewhat`
`14:51.29`	`equiraptor`	`Its' license is a lot less annoying than the GPL.`
`14:51.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Either way`
`14:51.42`	`Orclev`	`depends alot on what you do with it`
`14:51.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the only point I wanted to make is the fact that PhPbb is the easiest to set up`
`14:52.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and after all, this is still JUST a guildforum`
`14:52.03`	`Orclev`	`I've been meaning to try a SELinux system... that would be a sweet server in terms of security`
`14:52.09`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so even if you want to put in zillions of work`
`14:52.13`	`equiraptor`	`Peacemaker: You said that.`
`14:52.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`most of it will be wasted`
`14:52.20`	`equiraptor`	`Sorry, Peacemaker, bad tab completey.`
`14:52.36`	`equiraptor`	`Patrigan-Syldra: You said that. Why did you need to keep repeating it when she said she wasn't interested, anyway?`
`14:52.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, I'm just that kind of person ^^`
`14:53.00`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`plus I think she's gonna get in problems afterwards`
`14:53.03`	`equiraptor`	`And she's the kind of person who's annoyed by that kind of behavior.`
`14:53.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`she wants her guild to run easily`
`14:53.14`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but if she's going far too complicated with things`
`14:53.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`she will have to do everything alone`
`14:53.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I've been there`
`14:53.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I know what I talk about`
`14:53.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I had a forum with more than 500 accounts`
`14:53.46`	`Orclev`	`I find I can write custom forum software using J2EE, Spring, Hibernate, Acegi Security, and MySQL in the amount of time it would take to configure your typical PHP based solution.`
`14:53.59`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`god was I happy when I finally found 1 person to take over the Forum osting and security for me`
`14:54.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Orclev`
`14:54.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`again`
`14:54.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's useless work you do`
`14:54.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because again`
`14:54.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it's JUST a guild forum`
`14:54.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`50% of a guild barely posts in it`
`14:54.40`	`equiraptor`	`That doesn't mean it shouldn't be secure.`
`14:54.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`as all action happens ingame`
`14:54.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Never said it shouldn't`
`14:55.01`	`*** join/#wowwiki nemppu (i=nemppu@a85-156-147-243.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`14:55.08`	`Orclev`	`hmm, why not just find some place that will provide forums for free then?`
`14:55.14`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but, unless she is playing with some gods, she doesn't need to ahve it oversecured`
`14:55.19`	`equiraptor`	`You keep at least implying that leaving it somewhat insecure is ok, because it's "just" a guild forum.`
`14:55.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I never said that`
`14:55.37`	`equiraptor`	`Like I said, imply.`
`14:55.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I just said that PhPbb is the easiest to set up`
`14:55.50`	`equiraptor`	`It sounds like your "oversecured" is her "scarily vulnerable"`
`14:55.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`with the security required for a guildwebsite`
`14:56.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yes, but from what I've seen`
`14:56.09`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the work she wants to put into a guild`
`14:56.18`	`equiraptor`	`And, obviously, your personal experience is the be-all, end-all.`
`14:56.20`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`is the work I usually put into my Girlfriend`
`14:56.44`	`Orclev`	`oh, and as to your point about "useless work", as I said, I find it takes just about as much effort to configure most forum software as it does for me to whip up something simple and secure`
`14:56.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and that is way too much for a bunch o fplayers that always end up being not 100% happy`
`14:56.48`	`equiraptor`	`There's no chance that her personal experience would tell her differently. And that maybe she'd rather put in extra work than take the risk.`
`14:57.06`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yeah but Orclev I think you are very experienced with the matter, right?`
`14:57.12`	`Orclev`	`this is true`
`14:57.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Chances that she has a guildmember who knows just as much about it as the work she put in are slim`
`14:58.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so she will ALLWAYS have to maintain things herself`
`14:58.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and for being a GL`
`14:58.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's the worst you can do`
`14:58.28`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and actually compromises either the security or the daily run of the guild`
`14:58.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and that's actually the whole point I wanted to bring across`
`14:58.43`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if you keep things simple`
`14:58.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`others can take over where you left`
`14:58.54`	`equiraptor`	`Well, you did a really poor job trying to make that point.`
`14:59.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and eventually she will ahve to pass it to someone else`
`14:59.12`	`equiraptor`	`Unfortunately, because I think that's a good point, and if you'd made it before she got frustrated, you just might have helped her. :-P`
`14:59.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, i'm studying chemistry while discussing :p`
`14:59.24`	`Orclev`	`speaking as someone that used to have a co-hosted website that got replaced with a phishing page when another sites page got cracked, I can appreciate a secure site if you're co-hosting.`
`14:59.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so, I kind of fail in bringing across points`
`14:59.59`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, it also depends on what her server is actually`
`15:00.07`	`Orclev`	`ultimatly at this point it's rather moot, we're just debating relative merits to different approaches without any real impact one way or another`
`15:00.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I have the luck of having my own server`
`15:00.19`	`Orclev`	`I have my own now as well`
`15:00.32`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but normally if you are cohosting`
`15:00.46`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the server itself will most probably always have some extra security measurements`
`15:01.14`	`Orclev`	`the old one got kind of pissy with us after we exceeded the bandwidth limit for the fourth time and also managed to use 75% of the servers resources by ourselves`
`15:01.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`15:01.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Am I happy that I never need to co-host with someone ^^`
`15:01.56`	`Orclev`	`Patrigan-Syldra: interestingly enough, it was the hosting companies website that got cracked and allowed every co-hosted site to get replaced`
`15:02.00`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`eventually, my forum moved to someone with more experience with servers and forum hosting than myself`
`15:02.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`oO`
`15:02.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's...`
`15:02.30`	`Orclev`	`it was an unpatched PHP vulnerability`
`15:02.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, you would expect that as ahosting company, you do know the advanced tactics of security ><`
`15:02.54`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`even then...`
`15:03.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`keep the website on a seperate non linked server...`
`15:03.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that would be a basic that I would do...`
`15:03.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but then again, that's just me XD`
`15:03.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`ah well, I'm returning to Chemistry`
`15:03.40`	`Orclev`	`yeah, we fucking flipped when we go to check on the server and see it replaced with a phishing page... I was shiting bricks cause security is my responsibility and I was trying to figure how someone cracked my site`
`15:03.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`15:03.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and they didn't :p`
`15:04.04`	`Orclev`	`yep`
`15:04.14`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but still, we're still discussing a guild forum here`
`15:04.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and even though it sounds silly`
`15:04.28`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`there's nearly noone who is gonna "Hack" the forum...`
`15:04.35`	`equiraptor`	`Well, a guild website.`
`15:04.37`	`equiraptor`	`Not just forums.`
`15:04.40`	`Orclev`	`heh, you might be suprised`
`15:04.43`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yeah well all of it :p`
`15:04.44`	`equiraptor`	`And that's one of the weak points of PHPBB.`
`15:04.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`equiraptor`
`15:04.55`	`equiraptor`	`It's just forums. ANd it doesn't always play well with the rest of the site.`
`15:05.06`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if I really want to, I can get into any forum`
`15:05.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`ow... She's not planning on linking forum accounts to Website?`
`15:05.21`	`Orclev`	`alot of the spamers and such just scan massive network domains looking for any servers running anything they can crack, iregardless of what the server actually is used for`
`15:05.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`We had our forum linked to our website`
`15:05.41`	`equiraptor`	`Patrigan-Syldra: Why not?`
`15:05.52`	`equiraptor`	`There's software out there that does that quite well.`
`15:05.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so that making an account on the forum allowed you to log in on the hoempage and allowed access to certain pages (depending on your forum rank)`
`15:06.00`	`equiraptor`	`Hell, there's software out there for website+forums, all in one.`
`15:06.05`	`Orclev`	`Patrigan-Syldra: You couldn't crack my new one, but it's not up yet, so I can't really test you on that one`
`15:06.09`	`equiraptor`	`Well, not forum rank.`
`15:06.14`	`equiraptor`	`Assigned website permissions.`
`15:06.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, all the same`
`15:06.29`	`equiraptor`	`I wish Drupal had better forums modules.`
`15:06.37`	`equiraptor`	`Because if it did, it'd be great for things like guild websites.`
`15:06.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but it doesn't...`
`15:07.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`suddenly I realised something oO`
`15:07.04`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah. That's the one reason I don't recommend it to people.`
`15:07.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`We never had our DKP site linked to our forums and website D`
`15:07.25`	`equiraptor`	`Heh.`
`15:07.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`damn, that would've made things SOOOO much easier XD`
`15:07.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but then again`
`15:07.43`	`equiraptor`	`http://aberrationguild.com/ Yup.`
`15:07.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we switched to Class Council...`
`15:07.47`	`equiraptor`	`The guild's dead, but...`
`15:08.22`	`equiraptor`	`When the guild still existed, our DKP was shown in a side bar on each page. Most recent forum posts are still on a side bar.`
`15:08.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`oooho RSS feed`
`15:08.32`	`equiraptor`	`It was really easy to set all of that up, too.`
`15:08.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well forum posts we had aswell`
`15:08.39`	`equiraptor`	`But the forums are a lot less-nice for the user than PHPBB.`
`15:08.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and come to think of it`
`15:08.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`last item's bought were up aswell on our homepage`
`15:09.09`	`equiraptor`	`(I actually like drupal's forums better than PHPBB, but most of our guild like'd the other better)`
`15:09.33`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Well`
`15:09.43`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I know many normal players in a guld`
`15:09.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`prefer PhPBB`
`15:09.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`don't ask me why`
`15:09.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`they just do`
`15:10.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`btw`
`15:10.08`	`equiraptor`	`It's what their used to. People don't like change.`
`15:10.14`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`our homepage was a sick mixture of ASP and PhP ^^`
`15:11.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`AnywaysSTUDIES now`
`15:11.27`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if tep comes back and I'm not saying sorry immediately, tell her I said sorry`
`15:11.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I just wanted to prevent her from making the same mistake as I did :)`
`15:12.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`trying to do everything alone is BAD, really BAD and not only for yourself but for every member...`
`15:12.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`^^`
`15:12.14`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hf guys`
`15:39.41`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@ip70-178-135-244.ks.ks.cox.net)`
`15:39.41`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ`
`15:43.53`	`*** join/#wowwiki Apollozeus (n=neogeo-x@ip51cf1265.direct-adsl.nl)`
`15:56.41`	`beeyatch`	`lalala`
`15:56.46`	`beeyatch`	`sup?`
`15:58.09`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`¡oooW`
`15:59.41`	`beeyatch`	`woooI`
`16:10.52`	`fLUx--`	`where do i learn to mine?`
`16:11.11`	`fLUx--`	`looking on the wiki, but it doesnt say where to learn`
`16:11.40`	`equiraptor`	`Ask a guard in the first town or a capital city where the profession trainers, and then miner, are.`
`16:11.40`	`fLUx--`	`oh....might of found it`
`16:11.54`	`fLUx--`	`oh ok, thanks... ;)`
`16:12.09`	`fLUx--`	`the wowwiki site is slow today! :(`
`16:12.14`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah. :/`
`16:12.24`	`Orclev`	`ack, it's a patch... RUN!!!`
`16:13.18`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`16:13.18`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`16:13.53`	`Bagginsww`	`I wonder if I should go around to local best buy and see if they got orders in early and will be willing to sell it :p`
`16:14.37`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`you'd need an inside friend for that :D`
`16:15.42`	`Bagginsww`	`I have in inside friend or rather cousin at compusa :p`
`16:15.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yay!`
`16:15.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`get me a copy then :D`
`16:15.42`	`Bagginsww`	`but he's too worried he could get in trouble :p`
`16:15.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`or better yet -.-`
`16:15.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`send me the mousepad`
`16:15.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`thats all I want :<`
`16:15.42`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`16:15.42`	`Bagginsww`	`sorry not breaking up my collector's`
`16:15.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`noooo!!!!`
`16:15.56`	`Hobinheim`	`wts slowwiki.com`
`16:17.39`	`Bagginsww`	`only thing I might break up in my collector's is if I got a rare card LOL`
`16:17.50`	`Bagginsww`	`although I might want to use it myself`
`16:17.52`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`16:17.55`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`heh`
`16:17.58`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I want a cool pet`
`16:18.11`	`Bagginsww`	`I have a bank slot filled with pets LOL`
`16:18.12`	`Apollozeus`	`my brother has ordered a CE`
`16:18.13`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`right now I have Blackie following me around`
`16:18.19`	`Bagginsww`	`I think I might have to put a few of my cats to sleep :p`
`16:18.22`	`Apollozeus`	`he's gonna make a profit out of it`
`16:18.23`	`Apollozeus`	`D:`
`16:18.24`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:o`
`16:18.24`	`Bagginsww`	`to make room`
`16:18.27`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`noooo!!!!`
`16:18.41`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`save the kittehz!!`
`16:18.43`	`Bagginsww`	`why do they have to make cats soulbound :p`
`16:18.47`	`Bagginsww`	`white kitten stays`
`16:19.03`	`Apollozeus`	`sell the 40s elwynn forest ones`
`16:19.08`	`Apollozeus`	`:p`
`16:19.13`	`Bagginsww`	`I would if you could sell it LOL`
`16:19.22`	`Bagginsww`	`I have one of those`
`16:19.24`	`Bagginsww`	`cornish rex`
`16:19.27`	`Apollozeus`	`you can sell them to vendors right`
`16:19.32`	`Bagginsww`	`don't think so`
`16:19.35`	`Apollozeus`	`yeah, I got that one too`
`16:19.38`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`souldbound kittens?`
`16:19.40`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yes`
`16:19.46`	`Bagginsww`	`all pets are soulbound`
`16:19.57`	`equiraptor`	`Once you use them, irght?`
`16:19.58`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`do pets get bigger?`
`16:20.01`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`16:20.02`	`Bagginsww`	`no`
`16:20.04`	`Apollozeus`	`blizzard should make asylums D:`
`16:20.08`	`Apollozeus`	`for lost pets`
`16:20.09`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`my snake is now my size for some reason 0.o`
`16:20.11`	`Bagginsww`	`kennels LOL`
`16:20.14`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`16:20.16`	`Bagginsww`	`we need a pet kennel`
`16:20.17`	`equiraptor`	`Hunter pets get bigger.`
`16:20.22`	`equiraptor`	`Non-combat pets don't.`
`16:20.24`	`Apollozeus`	`that's the word I was looking for`
`16:20.29`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`seriously, my snake use to be half my size`
`16:20.32`	`Bagginsww`	`so btw anyone wanting a mini maexnna`
`16:20.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`now i can swallow me whole :<`
`16:20.37`	`Bagginsww`	`go to bloodmyst isle`
`16:21.01`	`Bagginsww`	`and all mini pets can die in fire LOL`
`16:21.08`	`Bagginsww`	`have their own death animations`
`16:21.44`	`Bagginsww`	`but ya if i had a hunter I might thinking of going to bloodmyst isle to pick up a spider there LOL`
`16:22.03`	`Bagginsww`	`ugly maexnna style spiders`
`16:22.48`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`XD`
`16:22.52`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`so what do hunters do`
`16:23.00`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`they tame ANY mob?`
`16:23.09`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nah`
`16:23.15`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`do you like wrestle it to the ground?`
`16:23.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`a select list of beasts`
`16:23.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`no...`
`16:23.28`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`they actually seduce it oO`
`16:23.33`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`¬.¬`
`16:23.34`	`equiraptor`	`You stick your hands out at it and hearts appear above both your and its head.`
`16:23.46`	`equiraptor`	`Until you reach the end of the spell and it either joins you or keeps trying to kill you.`
`16:23.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so seducing`
`16:24.17`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`so it has to be a pet that is the same level as you`
`16:24.29`	`equiraptor`	`Your level or lower.`
`16:24.33`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I see`
`16:24.36`	`equiraptor`	`A level 60 can tame a level 1 beast.`
`16:24.38`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`can you seduce elementals? :D`
`16:24.42`	`equiraptor`	`But a level 59 cannot tame a level 60.`
`16:24.42`	`equiraptor`	`no.`
`16:24.46`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`damn -.-`
`16:24.48`	`equiraptor`	`Only beasts, and not all beasts.`
`16:24.53`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`ok`
`16:24.56`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`can you sell your pet?`
`16:25.03`	`equiraptor`	`no`
`16:25.06`	`equiraptor`	`It's not an item.`
`16:25.07`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`...`
`16:25.12`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but you can name it`
`16:25.15`	`equiraptor`	`http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/ <-- that has lots of info.`
`16:27.18`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`you can tame elites :o`
`16:28.07`	`equiraptor`	`You can try to, at least. ;)`
`16:28.13`	`equiraptor`	`Traps can really help.`
`16:28.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`admin`
`16:28.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`http://upgrade.wow-europe.com/expansion/index.html?locale=en_GB`
`16:28.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and the other links`
`16:28.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`frontpage`
`16:28.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`NOW!`
`16:28.56`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`link to upgrade your account`
`16:29.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if you want to reduce the lag tonight and tomorrow`
`16:29.05`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Doesn't work`
`16:29.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`><`
`16:29.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it does for me XD`
`16:29.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`shows the gates and a countdowncounter`
`16:29.28`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I get a 404`
`16:29.38`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I know, I looked at it earlier :)`
`16:29.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, then they're prolly updating the page`
`16:29.58`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yup def a 404`
`16:30.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but either way, I would put it up XD`
`16:31.08`	`Bagginsww`	`so kirkburn`
`16:31.10`	`Bagginsww`	`guess what`
`16:31.13`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Gotta think how`
`16:31.49`	`Bagginsww`	`Luke Johnson posted, but he only stated his opinion, as in "I", but not Blizzard's opinion`
`16:32.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I'll fetch the other links aswell`
`16:32.06`	`Bagginsww`	`infact he went the whole if material is not from the game I wouldhn't consider it canon route`
`16:32.11`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`The US upgrade site is up, I think`
`16:32.28`	`Bagginsww`	`which is conflicting to what blizzard has stated, although I remind blizzard doesn't use the term canon`
`16:32.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Well there's no possibility of removing all the RPG info that's for sure`
`16:33.32`	`Bagginsww`	`this is what I've discovered though every time a stupid canon debate crops up`
`16:33.37`	`Bagginsww`	`the authors give their opinion`
`16:33.44`	`Bagginsww`	`but they don't commit`
`16:33.48`	`Bagginsww`	`to what blizzard thinks`
`16:33.54`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`:) fun`
`16:34.03`	`Bagginsww`	`Luke Johnson is new too`
`16:34.14`	`Bagginsww`	`he xame around the time of I think Lands of Conflict`
`16:34.57`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`16:34.57`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`16:35.14`	`Hobinheim`	`are we under attack... feels slow`
`16:35.33`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_ said he was upgrading today`
`16:36.21`	`Hobinheim`	`what kind of upgrade...`
`16:36.24`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?p=923900#923900`
`16:36.31`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`1gig to 4gig of RAM`
`16:36.59`	`Hobinheim`	`HOTT`
`16:37.03`	`equiraptor`	`Oooh, I <3 RAM upgrades.`
`16:37.05`	`Hobinheim`	`concurrent connections for the win`
`16:37.12`	`Hobinheim`	`that'll make this puppy like lightning`
`16:37.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`RAM is above all what it needed, so hopefully :)`
`16:37.21`	`Bagginsww`	`any idea when vista installed pcs are gonig to be released?`
`16:37.24`	`Hobinheim`	`if he could sneak in a quest namespace...`
`16:37.25`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`30th`
`16:37.28`	`Hobinheim`	`wait wtf kind of server is this?`
`16:37.30`	`Bagginsww`	`wanting to buy a laptop`
`16:37.33`	`Hobinheim`	`this isn't like a hosted server?`
`16:37.36`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Hobinheim, it's a PC`
`16:37.49`	`Hobinheim`	`but like.... if it isn't hosted.. then...`
`16:37.49`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Mid-range`
`16:38.00`	`Hobinheim`	`like why is vlad in charge of the ram upgrades`
`16:38.02`	`Hobinheim`	`know what i mean?`
`16:38.08`	`Hobinheim`	`like. it should just be taken care of`
`16:38.12`	`Hobinheim`	`by some etheral being`
`16:38.23`	`Hobinheim`	`i dunno. that's just my take on servers`
`16:38.27`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`lol`
`16:38.31`	`Hobinheim`	`:itisamystery:`
`16:39.51`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`16:39.51`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`16:40.47`	`Hobinheim`	`i'm having the worst time editing my own page...`
`16:41.03`	`Hobinheim`	`i dunno. all i hope for is that the server keeps running and is backed up`
`16:41.04`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`why?`
`16:41.08`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Oh right`
`16:41.13`	`Hobinheim`	`i dunno if you saw "is backed up" in bold`
`16:41.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Nope`
`16:41.24`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`But this is bold :)`
`16:41.30`	`Hobinheim`	`but like. that's my expectation with managed servers. that this higher entity does backup`
`16:41.32`	`Hobinheim`	`nope, no bold =P`
`16:41.54`	`Bagginsww`	`I so want a vista installed laptop :p`
`16:42.15`	`Bagginsww`	`no idea when next generation laptops with vista come out :p`
`16:42.19`	`Hobinheim`	`Bagginsww, like the ones ms gave out for free?`
`16:42.30`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`30th`
`16:42.31`	`Bagginsww`	`you gave some out?`
`16:42.37`	`Bagginsww`	`oh MS`
`16:42.43`	`Bagginsww`	`what type?`
`16:42.46`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`They gave them out to bloggers`
`16:42.47`	`Hobinheim`	`ferrari`
`16:42.49`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`16:42.51`	`Hobinheim`	`literally, ferrari`
`16:42.53`	`Bagginsww`	`wow`
`16:43.02`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Expensive as hell`
`16:43.02`	`Hobinheim`	`ferrari brands pimped out acer laptops`
`16:43.03`	`Hobinheim`	`something like that`
`16:43.05`	`jrr`	`acer makes a ferrari-branded model`
`16:43.13`	`Hobinheim`	`lol jrr`
`16:43.13`	`Bagginsww`	`so top graphics cards etc?`
`16:43.16`	`jrr`	`=D`
`16:43.24`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`In any case, 30th is for the 'proper' Vista release`
`16:43.28`	`Hobinheim`	`christ slowwiki.com`
`16:43.33`	`jrr`	`it's funny because a few years ago acer was synonymous with crap`
`16:43.35`	`Bagginsww`	`ok end of htis month eh?`
`16:43.38`	`Bagginsww`	`good to know`
`16:43.50`	`Bagginsww`	`I'll probably go with a dell`
`16:44.03`	`jrr`	`my first laptop will be either ibm or apple`
`16:44.04`	`Bagginsww`	`I've had few problems with my dad's dell laptop`
`16:44.23`	`Bagginsww`	`but I want to go the top platform route`
`16:44.26`	`jrr`	`(by 'ibm', i suppose i mean 'lenovo')`
`16:44.30`	`Bagginsww`	`ahh`
`16:45.24`	`Bagginsww`	`as it is I don't want to upgrade my desktop at this point, infact it would be a complete overhaul`
`16:45.30`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`My Dell is good :)`
`16:45.38`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`(9300)`
`16:45.41`	`Bagginsww`	`and since I'm moving on to university I want something that's easier to carry`
`16:45.46`	`Bagginsww`	`my dad's is a 9800 I think`
`16:45.51`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe 9300`
`16:45.52`	`Bagginsww`	`not sure`
`16:45.55`	`Bagginsww`	`big silver one`
`16:46.00`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`White borders`
`16:46.02`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`16:46.07`	`Bagginsww`	`about 7 lbs`
`16:46.07`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yup :)`
`16:46.16`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I haven't weighed it ... :P`
`16:46.19`	`Bagginsww`	`geforce 6800`
`16:46.22`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Indeed`
`16:46.29`	`Bagginsww`	`ok ya its a good video card`
`16:46.39`	`Bagginsww`	`only issue I've had is a wonky wireless`
`16:46.44`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yeah, as fast as my 6800 GT in my desktop`
`16:46.55`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Really? Not had a problem myself`
`16:46.56`	`Bagginsww`	`at times its as fast as my 6800 ultra`
`16:47.00`	`Bagginsww`	`for certaing ames`
`16:47.13`	`Hobinheim`	`man this is really frustrating...`
`16:47.21`	`Hobinheim`	`i'm trying to edit a page describing my alt-itis... =P`
`16:47.22`	`jrr`	`Hobinheim: what?`
`16:47.22`	`Bagginsww`	`ya, its apparently an intermittent issue`
`16:47.25`	`jrr`	`oh`
`16:47.26`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Let vlad_ upgrade! :P`
`16:47.27`	`Bagginsww`	`going to have to have them repair it`
`16:47.48`	`Hobinheim`	`how come sometimes the wiki is like lightning`
`16:47.57`	`Hobinheim`	`i wonder sometimes if it reboots and just kills everyone off`
`16:48.12`	`Hobinheim`	`"Wowwiki's Shadowvolley strikes the raid for 50000."`
`16:48.22`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`16:48.30`	`jrr`	`where's it hosted?`
`16:48.41`	`Hobinheim`	`see, that's what i'm saying. who's hosting it`
`16:48.42`	`jrr`	`dedicated box?`
`16:48.59`	`Hobinheim`	`like i know i have a wiki (that i'm currently neglecting) and that's hosted`
`16:49.16`	`Hobinheim`	`i have control of telneting into the server, but the entire box is probably shared and something i don't worry about`
`16:49.25`	`Hobinheim`	`then again i'm not one of the top 5000 websites on the internet =(`
`16:50.41`	`jrr`	`whew`
`16:51.19`	`jrr`	`you're hopefully ssh'ing`
`16:51.45`	`Bagginsww`	`so oldwelway came back into my talk page and went back to saying celestials is fan fic LOL`
`16:51.54`	`Bagginsww`	`cause of how long the main part of hte article is`
`16:51.56`	`jrr`	`telnet is unencrypted - all the text you type goes across in the clear`
`16:52.04`	`Bagginsww`	`but uh ya it was that long in the book LOL`
`16:54.48`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Rustak said this earlier: "I'm going to try to switch web servers at the same time, which /might/ cause problems.. but if it does i'll just bbring up the current one"`
`16:55.17`	`Hobinheim`	`i feel like this is running out of someone's house...`
`16:55.39`	`Hobinheim`	`w/e, i'm not too familiar with hosting`
`16:55.44`	`Hobinheim`	`i just like it taken care of like arcane magic`
`16:55.45`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Could be, could be. Wouldn't make much difference tbh`
`16:57.31`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`No idea if it's still the case, but he's not near the server that often`
`16:57.57`	`Norlando`	`Morning all`
`16:58.18`	`Bagginsww`	`morning`
`17:00.22`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Why is it, on my Spooks DVD, it has "next time" sections at the end of the episodes :P`
`17:01.08`	`Bagginsww`	`was it part of the original show?`
`17:01.12`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`yup`
`17:01.16`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`They never cut it out`
`17:01.22`	`Bagginsww`	`I wouldn't want them to LOL`
`17:01.28`	`Bagginsww`	`i like uncut shows`
`17:01.46`	`Bagginsww`	`its too bad macgyver seasons are the cut syndicated versions :P`
`17:02.15`	`Tekkub`	`I like uncut d....`
`17:02.19`	`Tekkub`	`er...`
`17:02.25`	`Tekkub`	`http://www.worldofraids.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2698`
`17:02.31`	`Bagginsww`	`At least my MAS*H seasons are uncut.`
`17:02.31`	`Tekkub`	`I feel a wiki page brewing!`
`17:02.48`	`jrr`	`it's kinda painful to watch several consecutive clone wars episodes, since it does the intro/outtro stuff every fifteen or so minutes`
`17:02.56`	`Tekkub`	`if the server would let me in`
`17:03.08`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:04.51`	`Hobinheim`	`Tekkub,what`
`17:05.00`	`Tekkub`	`nandayo?`
`17:05.11`	`Norlando`	`whered you get uncut mash? mine are cut, theres like a 10 second pause every 5 minuts`
`17:05.20`	`Norlando`	`minutes*`
`17:05.41`	`Bagginsww`	`uh well those were original commericial break`
`17:05.52`	`Bagginsww`	`built into the movie`
`17:05.54`	`Bagginsww`	`*shows`
`17:05.56`	`Bagginsww`	`I mean`
`17:06.13`	`Bagginsww`	`dvds are consideriably longer than syndicate episodes`
`17:06.20`	`Bagginsww`	`about 10-15 minutes longer`
`17:07.10`	`Bagginsww`	`although sometimes the material is grainier`
`17:07.10`	`Bagginsww`	`cause they had to go back to the original footage`
`17:07.10`	`Bagginsww`	`and didn't remaster it`
`17:07.26`	`Norlando`	`baggins, your from the us?`
`17:07.29`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`17:08.12`	`Norlando`	`oh ok that explains alot`
`17:08.46`	`Bagginsww`	`I've heard the old video versions were the syndicated versions`
`17:08.55`	`Bagginsww`	`never bought those`
`17:09.03`	`Norlando`	`you mean on vhs?`
`17:09.05`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`17:09.06`	`*** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com)`
`17:09.06`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ`
`17:09.10`	`Hobinheim`	`editing pages has never taken so long...`
`17:09.20`	`Bagginsww`	`well there may have been two editions of hte VHS`
`17:09.30`	`Bagginsww`	`released through two seperate firms`
`17:09.38`	`Bagginsww`	`not sure on the history exactly`
`17:10.22`	`Bagginsww`	`oh and at least one 2 parter is messed up on dvds, that is fox couldn't find good copies of hte master, so they were forced to use syndicated version`
`17:10.31`	`Bagginsww`	`but they give a big sorry note`
`17:10.40`	`Bagginsww`	`infront of the episodes`
`17:11.01`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Lol and today's comic: http://www.reallifecomics.com/`
`17:11.06`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`*at`
`17:11.09`	`Bagginsww`	`and you can watch it spliced together if you so choose, although it might be missing a few scenes`
`17:11.18`	`Bagginsww`	`this was one of those clip shows in later season 7 or 8 or so`
`17:11.29`	`Bagginsww`	`so its not too important`
`17:11.44`	`Bagginsww`	`only issue is it has the dang laughtrack LOL`
`17:12.02`	`Bagginsww`	`I like watching them without the laughtrack.`
`17:12.10`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Also: Helm's Deep in CANDY! :D http://missedmanners.wordpress.com/2007/01/12/what-i-did-over-christmas-vacation/`
`17:12.52`	`Bagginsww`	`oh someone posted in my talk page again :p`
`17:13.12`	`Bagginsww`	`hope it was kirburn or someone , ;)`
`17:13.12`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`lol`
`17:13.22`	`Bagginsww`	`right now I'm the hated`
`17:13.41`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm some evil villain trying to destroy warcraft universe`
`17:14.15`	`Bagginsww`	`and now my email is flooded with wikadmin notices :p`
`17:15.22`	`Bagginsww`	`woohoo thank you aeleas for telling people to move out of my talk page`
`17:16.07`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I can't visit wowwiki so it can't be me ;)`
`17:16.12`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Bagginsww, turn off email alerts?`
`17:16.25`	`Bagginsww`	`I tried somehow it started up again LOL`
`17:16.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`lol`
`17:17.18`	`Bagginsww`	`going to blockquote the celestial sectin`
`17:18.39`	`*** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`17:18.52`	`Bagginsww`	`at least I'll do it later :p`
`17:19.50`	`Bagginsww`	`but ya everything up to the citation is direct quotes or at least direct paraphrase`
`17:21.06`	`Bagginsww`	`link?`
`17:21.35`	`Hobinheim`	`"ref" and "references"`
`17:21.47`	`Hobinheim`	`i'd link you but the wiki might explode`
`17:21.51`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:22.16`	`Bagginsww`	`I mean i'm all for using improved form or refrencing`
`17:22.23`	`Bagginsww`	`*of`
`17:22.51`	`Bagginsww`	`probably have to put it into favorites cause trying to remember all the templates may cause my head to explose`
`17:22.58`	`Bagginsww`	`*de`
`17:23.07`	`Hobinheim`	`literally, "ref" and "references"`
`17:23.15`	`Hobinheim`	`check out my contributions history for the server additions i made`
`17:23.22`	`Hobinheim`	`or server auchindaun`
`17:23.28`	`Hobinheim`	`however you pronounce or spell that`
`17:23.40`	`Bagginsww`	`doun?`
`17:23.44`	`Hobinheim`	`it's as close to wikipedia's reference system as i could make it, considering we lack the ability to install modules`
`17:23.47`	`Hobinheim`	`yeah`
`17:24.10`	`Bagginsww`	`ok, sounds like a good thing`
`17:24.11`	`Hobinheim`	`i'm about to have a fit... i've been staring at this stupid page loading thing forever`
`17:24.16`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:24.24`	`Hobinheim`	`fuck it, no more editing`
`17:24.25`	`Hobinheim`	`later`
`17:25.11`	`Bagginsww`	`well back to the reading of spirit catches you :p`
`17:25.38`	`Bagginsww`	`its a good book except where the author makes like 30 word run-on sentences :p`
`17:25.47`	`fLUx--`	`hey, why doesnt "/tloc" work?`
`17:26.13`	`kaso`	`because it isnt a default UI command?`
`17:26.19`	`fLUx--`	`ohhh`
`17:26.22`	`fLUx--`	`lol`
`17:26.33`	`fLUx--`	`sorry...im a noob....thanks... :D`
`17:26.38`	`*** join/#wowwiki ELG\|_Tim (n=chopperj@adsl-69-209-132-133.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)`
`17:26.43`	`kaso`	`download thottbot if you want it back`
`17:26.48`	`kaso`	`of some cosmos thingy`
`17:29.14`	`Bagginsww`	`well if I ever become a writer, and write about my career in anthropology. May I never write in 30 word run-ons :p`
`17:30.16`	`Hobinheim`	`are you the one going to hawaii?`
`17:33.02`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`17:33.11`	`Bagginsww`	`turned out to be cheaper than montana`
`17:33.21`	`Bagginsww`	`after all fees were figured in`
`17:33.28`	`Bagginsww`	`by like 8000`
`17:33.36`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forum.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?p=923924#923924`
`17:33.42`	`Bagginsww`	`check out that htread kirkburn`
`17:34.14`	`Apollozeus`	`wtf is wrong with the wiki D:`
`17:34.19`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm satisfied, thank you Luke!`
`17:34.19`	`Bagginsww`	`hold up the Victory Sign`
`17:34.19`	`Bagginsww`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:34.43`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=222`
`17:34.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`lol`
`17:34.57`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I;ve you followed the OJ Simpson scandal recently`
`17:35.31`	`Bagginsww`	`thus I stepped in and mentioned the fact it was only his personal opinion as he used the term "I" not stating what blizzard thought`
`17:35.58`	`Bagginsww`	`the book?`
`17:36.04`	`Bagginsww`	`What I would hav edone`
`17:36.06`	`Bagginsww`	`:P`
`17:36.28`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:36.39`	`Bagginsww`	`good one`
`17:37.41`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Bagginsww, yeah, it annoyed me that he keeps trying to turn this into a war`
`17:37.56`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It's hard a fight a war when one side is neutral :/`
`17:37.57`	`Bagginsww`	`you should join up and post there`
`17:38.06`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:38.27`	`Apollozeus`	`yeah kirk`
`17:38.34`	`Apollozeus`	`fuck the steamwheedle cartel :p`
`17:38.55`	`Bagginsww`	`ya kirk`
`17:39.02`	`Bagginsww`	`start feeling like Gandhi :p`
`17:39.23`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`lol`
`17:39.27`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`arf, there goes my server`
`17:39.33`	`Bagginsww`	`passive resistence LOL`
`17:40.07`	`Bagginsww`	`I wonder what happens when the movie is released`
`17:40.16`	`Bagginsww`	`and it goes against warcraft LOL`
`17:40.49`	`Bagginsww`	`or has sections that seem to go against`
`17:40.58`	`Bagginsww`	`cause you know hollywood :p`
`17:41.05`	`Bagginsww`	`always trying to change the story`
`17:42.07`	`Apollozeus`	`that WILL happen`
`17:42.18`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Someone called Kanzaki just ran past me :O`
`17:42.25`	`Apollozeus`	`people will whine and complain`
`17:42.31`	`Apollozeus`	`...as usual`
`17:42.32`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:42.48`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet they overlook the important thing, theme, LOL`
`17:43.06`	`Bagginsww`	`however its funny some people prefer LOTR movies over the books`
`17:43.14`	`Apollozeus`	`it was like the whining when south park's WOW episode was released`
`17:43.16`	`Bagginsww`	`think Jackson did a better job at flow of the story`
`17:43.23`	`Apollozeus`	`'olo nun of that was possibel ingame'`
`17:43.33`	`Apollozeus`	`Jackson did a great job`
`17:43.38`	`Bagginsww`	`Ya he did`
`17:43.46`	`Bagginsww`	`few things I prefer in the book, but its not an issue to me`
`17:43.51`	`Bagginsww`	`I love both`
`17:44.06`	`Bagginsww`	`yes some things ere not possible in southpark episode`
`17:44.09`	`Bagginsww`	`if only they wer,e ;)`
`17:44.37`	`Bagginsww`	`Id like to be able to copy weapons over to my character through a memory stick LOL`
`17:44.42`	`Apollozeus`	`permanently killing people :P`
`17:44.42`	`Bagginsww`	`if it wouldn't get me banned LOL`
`17:44.58`	`Apollozeus`	`squishing their heads with hammers`
`17:45.01`	`Bagginsww`	`there asn't really "perm kill" they mention the respawing`
`17:45.15`	`Apollozeus`	`well, they kill the "uber"-guy`
`17:45.25`	`Bagginsww`	`well I got the impression they put him in his place`
`17:45.34`	`Apollozeus`	`w/e`
`17:45.37`	`Bagginsww`	`bigger issue is him being a mage that wear armor`
`17:45.42`	`Apollozeus`	`it was just a cartoon`
`17:45.44`	`Bagginsww`	`and conjur`
`17:45.45`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`17:45.47`	`Apollozeus`	`no need to argue further than that`
`17:45.49`	`Bagginsww`	`fun to discuss though`
`17:45.54`	`Bagginsww`	`nothing more than fun to discuss`
`17:45.57`	`Bagginsww`	`I loved the episode`
`17:46.03`	`Apollozeus`	`nah, discussing wow lore is already kinda pointless`
`17:46.07`	`Tekkub`	`god you're a bunch of nerds :P`
`17:46.10`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:46.17`	`Bagginsww`	`pointless but fun`
`17:46.24`	`Bagginsww`	`its all about entertainment`
`17:46.33`	`Bagginsww`	`at least its to me`
`17:46.36`	`Apollozeus`	`I'd rather play WoW than discuss it ;)`
`17:46.36`	`Bagginsww`	`*is`
`17:46.40`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:46.42`	`Bagginsww`	`I do both`
`17:46.47`	`Tekkub`	`isn't that the definition of reek?`
`17:46.53`	`Apollozeus`	`reek?`
`17:46.56`	`Bagginsww`	`sigh I think it might be my interest in anthropology though`
`17:47.05`	`Bagginsww`	`seems to bleed into concept of fictional lore LOL`
`17:47.08`	`Tekkub`	`contemplating/arguing the inacuracies and values of a fictional story`
`17:47.23`	`Tekkub`	`ESPECIALLY in the context of anothe fictional story`
`17:47.30`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`17:47.33`	`Tekkub`	`wel... I guess that's gooks and religions`
`17:47.43`	`Tekkub`	`and I can't type this morn`
`17:47.48`	`Apollozeus`	`ing?`
`17:47.54`	`Bagginsww`	`you know I think I know what my thesis is going to be on`
`17:48.06`	`Bagginsww`	`finally have an idea`
`17:48.07`	`Apollozeus`	`ehm..`
`17:48.13`	`Apollozeus`	`"warlocks should be nerfed"?`
`17:48.15`	`Bagginsww`	`its all thanks to you`
`17:48.28`	`Tekkub`	`god you are a geek`
`17:48.30`	`Bagginsww`	`Pop culture community`
`17:48.37`	`Bagginsww`	`and how they interact`
`17:48.52`	`Bagginsww`	`I have experience in several franchies`
`17:48.56`	`Bagginsww`	`besides warcraft LOL`
`17:49.00`	`Tekkub`	`don't forget starwar/LOTR geeks, they're the worston the subject`
`17:49.03`	`Bagginsww`	`so lots of material to work with`
`17:49.06`	`Apollozeus`	`Tekkub`
`17:49.08`	`Norlando`	`slowwiki`
`17:49.11`	`Apollozeus`	`the star trek people are the worst`
`17:49.12`	`Bagginsww`	`well ya like I said I have alot of material tow ork with`
`17:49.13`	`Apollozeus`	`;x`
`17:49.14`	`Apollozeus`	`by far`
`17:49.14`	`Tekkub`	`nani?`
`17:49.15`	`Bagginsww`	`it won't be warcraft only`
`17:49.26`	`Tekkub`	`nah, star trek's all but dead`
`17:49.28`	`Bagginsww`	`I've had run ins with star trek nuts`
`17:49.35`	`Bagginsww`	`nah the star trek community is veyr much alive`
`17:49.38`	`Bagginsww`	`like a plague`
`17:49.39`	`Tekkub`	`star wars still gets it's new movies and cartoons and shit`
`17:49.54`	`Tekkub`	`I didn't say community, the shows :)`
`17:49.54`	`Bagginsww`	`star wars has been sorta dead since last move`
`17:49.55`	`Bagginsww`	`*movie`
`17:50.10`	`Bagginsww`	`well its the community that I would be discussing in a cultural thesis`
`17:50.14`	`Bagginsww`	`not the shows LOL`
`17:50.17`	`Tekkub`	`yea but SW has had like 3 movies and a cartoon since the last ST movie`
`17:50.26`	`Tekkub`	`well there was Enterprise I guess`
`17:50.37`	`Bagginsww`	`uh I think it was 1-2 movies since the last star trek movie`
`17:50.38`	`Tekkub`	`bah`
`17:50.45`	`Bagginsww`	`the show lasted beyond the last star trek movie`
`17:51.03`	`Bagginsww`	`and they are making a new movie :p`
`17:51.12`	`Apollozeus`	`damn those trek freaks >_<`
`17:51.18`	`Tekkub`	`yea I heard... but it's not out yet so it doesn't count`
`17:51.23`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:51.43`	`Bagginsww`	`so neither does the rumored upcoming star wars show LOL`
`17:52.00`	`Tekkub`	`they finally gonna make the last 3 crappy movies?`
`17:52.09`	`Bagginsww`	`now books are still being churned out like 100 a month :p`
`17:52.11`	`Bagginsww`	`for both franchies`
`17:52.20`	`Tekkub`	`books don't count at all`
`17:52.22`	`Bagginsww`	`star wars movies?`
`17:52.24`	`Tekkub`	`who reads anyway`
`17:52.27`	`Bagginsww`	`probably not`
`17:52.37`	`Bagginsww`	`there is talk about a dark times tv show though`
`17:52.42`	`Bagginsww`	`between the movies`
`17:52.52`	`Tekkub`	`only the geekiest of the geeks read franchise books`
`17:52.53`	`Bagginsww`	`personaly not interested`
`17:53.11`	`Bagginsww`	`damn I read ROTH I am a geek LOL`
`17:53.13`	`Tekkub`	`now people that read stuff like Anne McCaffery and such that are ONLY books, that's diff`
`17:53.19`	`Tekkub`	`I'm married to one of those`
`17:53.22`	`Bagginsww`	`actually I just about read all sorts of things`
`17:53.34`	`Tekkub`	`I'm a chapter into ROTH`
`17:53.38`	`Bagginsww`	`and there are Crichton geeks :)`
`17:53.49`	`Tekkub`	`frelling frackers`
`17:53.50`	`Bagginsww`	`and Anne Rice geeks`
`17:54.02`	`Bagginsww`	`just about any author has a geek community`
`17:54.04`	`Tekkub`	`Anne Rice geeks are just emo goths tho`
`17:54.10`	`Tekkub`	`she's the vampire one right?`
`17:54.11`	`Bagginsww`	`not all`
`17:54.13`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`17:54.18`	`Tekkub`	`yea, total emo`
`17:54.19`	`Tekkub`	`:)`
`17:54.25`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm Dracula fan`
`17:54.30`	`Bagginsww`	`doesn't mean I'm a goth LOL`
`17:54.41`	`Bagginsww`	`also a major castlevania fan, also not a goth LOL`
`17:54.45`	`Tekkub`	`the yall wear black t-shirts that say "I'm only wearing this till they come out with a color darker than black"`
`17:54.52`	`Bagginsww`	`I hate black tshirts too hot`
`17:55.10`	`Tekkub`	`I saw that al walmart... but they didn't have it in my size`
`17:55.15`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm wearing my black "don't make me go zelda on you" right now though LOL`
`17:55.20`	`Bagginsww`	`but not because its black`
`17:55.40`	`Bagginsww`	`video game geeks LOL`
`17:55.55`	`Apollozeus`	`haha`
`17:55.59`	`Tekkub`	`I have a t-shirt that says "Larry's Leather" on it... damn I miss that comic`
`17:56.04`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`17:56.06`	`Apollozeus`	`I'm wearing a band sweater now :)`
`17:56.07`	`Tekkub`	`and a furry-bear one too`
`17:56.26`	`Apollozeus`	`big guitar on the back`
`17:56.31`	`Apollozeus`	`and a wolf on the front`
`17:56.37`	`Bagginsww`	`heh heh`
`17:56.38`	`Tekkub`	`I need to get that shirt from Tho Onion...`
`17:56.49`	`Tekkub`	`"I'm getting good at this masturbating thing"`
`17:56.54`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`17:57.04`	`Bagginsww`	`"If its said on the Onion it must be true"`
`17:57.10`	`Tekkub`	`also "Your favorite sports team or band sucks"`
`17:58.31`	`Bagginsww`	`so kirk what's going on in that SoL uh hearing...`
`17:58.50`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Dunno, not bothered going back yet`
`17:58.54`	`Bagginsww`	`ahh`
`17:59.08`	`Bagginsww`	`bet you kenzuki goes in twistst luke's words`
`18:00.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Oh sure, but given what he said, we should make the pages clearer`
`18:00.26`	`Bagginsww`	`I know from previous experience if you ask Luke what blizzard's opinion is, he alway switches I'm not allowed to "discuss that information"`
`18:00.38`	`Bagginsww`	`but he's more than willing to give his own LOL`
`18:00.39`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`heh`
`18:01.17`	`Bagginsww`	`well if anyone tries to put up that quote, we have to point out its his opinion`
`18:01.42`	`Bagginsww`	`and the way it was worded could affect all books as a whole`
`18:01.51`	`Bagginsww`	`not just some small section of one small bok`
`18:01.53`	`Bagginsww`	`if it was true`
`18:02.00`	`Bagginsww`	`beyond his "I" believe`
`18:02.34`	`Bagginsww`	`actually it kind of falls under the treatment with magusrogue quotes, epeople removed it`
`18:02.42`	`Bagginsww`	`cause "blizzard didn't say it"`
`18:05.04`	`*** join/#wowwiki fLUx--_ (n=chatzill@AC8E6EA1.ipt.aol.com)`
`18:06.45`	`*** join/#wowwiki Royal (n=m@cp291458-a.landg1.lb.home.nl)`
`18:08.28`	`Bagginsww`	`http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?p=923941#923941`
`18:09.09`	`Apollozeus`	`white wolf ;x`
`18:09.20`	`Bagginsww`	`white wolf is the publisher`
`18:09.33`	`Apollozeus`	`that's the english name of a south-african white supremacist movement`
`18:09.41`	`Apollozeus`	`nvm me and my random facts`
`18:09.45`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`18:09.53`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm sure tehre is not connection LOL`
`18:10.10`	`Bagginsww`	`white wolfs as an animal`
`18:10.19`	`Bagginsww`	`existed long before LOL`
`18:10.20`	`*** join/#wowwiki kaso (n=kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`18:13.08`	`Bagginsww`	`did you read my post kirkburn?`
`18:15.45`	`Bagginsww`	`Anyways, you are really talking symantics here debating "Well Luke said 'I' which means it's his opinion and not true!" crap. It doesn't matter if it's "Blizzard's stance".. Blizzard did not write the Manual of Monsters. If the developers tell you they never intended for that section to be canonical, they never intended for that section to be canonical, period. You don't need "Blizzard confirmation" because you're never goi`
`18:15.45`	`Bagginsww`	`ng to get it. It's just an excuse to say "haha I'm still right because you didn't give me enough proof" when really common sense should have told you they weren't canonical without having to even hear from a developer.`
`18:15.46`	`Bagginsww`	`_________________`
`18:15.52`	`Bagginsww`	`yep he put words into my mouth`
`18:16.36`	`Bagginsww`	`people seem to forget that we aren't trying tob e right or wrong just present facts, facts need to be straightforward and not left to vagueness`
`18:22.48`	`*** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=rawsonat@c-24-21-36-57.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`18:23.28`	`Bagginsww`	`You gunna let him diss you like that Luke?`
`18:23.28`	`Bagginsww`	`So you still think the some of the Abyssal Lords and Lords of the Nine are in Warcraft?`
`18:23.30`	`Bagginsww`	`-kenzuki`
`18:23.43`	`Bagginsww`	`ya tell me where I dissed him once...`
`18:23.54`	`Bagginsww`	`and what the hell is he going on aobut Lord sof the nine and abyssal lrods?`
`18:25.14`	`*** join/#wowwiki Synwyn (n=xporc@ABordeaux-152-1-52-133.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:25.18`	`Synwyn`	`Hi`
`18:25.26`	`Gryphen`	`heya`
`18:25.45`	`Synwyn`	`Mmh ..; s`
`18:25.55`	`Synwyn`	`Since i'm new, i'll just present myself.`
`18:25.57`	`*** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.136)`
`18:26.16`	`Synwyn`	`And a lore junky :^`
`18:26.18`	`Synwyn`	`:p`
`18:26.47`	`Apollozeus`	`you're from france, huh?`
`18:26.54`	`Synwyn`	`...`
`18:26.58`	`Synwyn`	`How do you know ? :p`
`18:27.08`	`Apollozeus`	`* Synwyn (n=xporc@ABordeaux-152-1-52-133.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wowwiki`
`18:27.31`	`Synwyn`	`Oh`
`18:27.38`	`Synwyn`	`Eh eh`
`18:27.45`	`Synwyn`	`I'm still a noob at IRC`
`18:27.54`	`Apollozeus`	`weren't we all at some point?`
`18:27.57`	`Apollozeus`	`:p`
`18:28.16`	`Synwyn`	`Eh eh`
`18:28.33`	`Synwyn`	`I'm bored ... The mailman did not brought me TBC today`
`18:28.41`	`Apollozeus`	`well of course`
`18:28.45`	`Apollozeus`	`it's the 15th today ;)`
`18:28.56`	`Synwyn`	`Yep but he could have brought it to me :p`
`18:29.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`picking mine up around 2pm tomorrow :<`
`18:29.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`perhaps even later :<`
`18:29.13`	`Apollozeus`	`I'm not picking mine up before next week`
`18:29.31`	`Apollozeus`	`damn bank not working fast enough to get the money on my account`
`18:29.55`	`Synwyn`	`Still, i want to play my BE hunter :p`
`18:29.59`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`18:30.42`	`Synwyn`	`Are you THE Baggins ? :p`
`18:31.00`	`Bagginsww`	`Yes, welcome. If you hate me, for some reason... I'll live with it...`
`18:31.05`	`Apollozeus`	`no`
`18:31.06`	`Sky2042`	`lol`
`18:31.08`	`Apollozeus`	`he's the Teabagger`
`18:31.09`	`Synwyn`	`Well i dont hate you :p`
`18:31.14`	`Apollozeus`	`btw don't google that`
`18:31.23`	`Bagginsww`	`I now what teabagger mean sLOL`
`18:31.26`	`Synwyn`	`Just wanted to support you against Scrolls of Lore hate.`
`18:31.32`	`Bagginsww`	`oh thanks man`
`18:31.34`	`Synwyn`	`These guys are mean :(`
`18:31.38`	`Bagginsww`	`I try to remain neutral`
`18:31.54`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm not trying to force any views of canon or non-canon`
`18:32.04`	`Bagginsww`	`only quote information as its stated, nothing more nothign less`
`18:32.20`	`Synwyn`	`Yes, i saw that at your User talk page (or whatever it is called, i'm also a wiki noob :p )`
`18:33.01`	`Synwyn`	`Must say that i was on SoL's side when reading stuff about Fire naga, though :p`
`18:33.15`	`Synwyn`	`But seeing these guys calling anything else than their forum crap bore me.`
`18:34.22`	`Bagginsww`	`iI don't know anything about fire naga`
`18:34.45`	`Bagginsww`	`I was one of the people that helped remove that crap. Although it was always said to be a "fan discription"`
`18:35.02`	`Synwyn`	`Yes, but they thinks most of wowwiki lore section is crap ever since.`
`18:36.20`	`Apollozeus`	`baggins`
`18:36.28`	`Apollozeus`	`any idea what happened to the wiki? :x`
`18:36.31`	`amro`	`something wrong with the wiki? its showing up without CSS`
`18:36.43`	`Apollozeus`	`it's not showing up for me entirely`
`18:36.44`	`Bagginsww`	`ya most of those people seemt o view the RPG as all non-canon`
`18:36.51`	`Bagginsww`	`despite Blizzard stating to the contrary`
`18:37.14`	`Apollozeus`	`Synwyn, the problem isn't on your part >_>`
`18:37.37`	`Synwyn`	`Well, still, i have to say that i dont think the "famous" monsters of the other D&D universes are canon :p`
`18:38.13`	`Bagginsww`	`ya you are welcome to your opinion. I actually don't think either eay`
`18:38.18`	`Bagginsww`	`that is canon or non-canon`
`18:38.49`	`Synwyn`	`Guess we'll with the new Monster Book for WoW RPG`
`18:38.52`	`Synwyn`	`By the way`
`18:38.57`	`Synwyn`	`Know when it will be released ?`
`18:39.02`	`Bagginsww`	`thus why I have controverfsy note on all of them unless they showed up othe rlore`
`18:39.15`	`Bagginsww`	`few more weeks yay`
`18:39.20`	`Bagginsww`	`5th or so`
`18:39.26`	`Synwyn`	`Oh nice`
`18:39.32`	`Bagginsww`	`ya from what I hear the new monster guide will not go into anything about appendix`
`18:39.40`	`Bagginsww`	`it will have 200 or more wow specific monstes`
`18:39.56`	`Bagginsww`	`from what I've gotten with my contacts in Whitewolf`
`18:40.07`	`Synwyn`	`Cool`
`18:40.08`	`Bagginsww`	`and those who have direct contact with whitewolf members`
`18:40.18`	`Bagginsww`	`and its in color I hear`
`18:40.23`	`Bagginsww`	`at least that's last I heard`
`18:40.34`	`Bagginsww`	`hope it stayed in color as it went to printing`
`18:41.41`	`Synwyn`	`Gawd, i'm bored. I want The Burning Crusade ... O_O I've got a big project about a sin'dorei roleplay guild. I'm impatient. Gaaaaw`
`18:41.48`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm curious if centaur and a few creatures that showed up in APG and HPG will be reprinted in it`
`18:42.57`	`*** join/#wowwiki kazurk (n=kas@ip70-174-43-154.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`18:43.24`	`Bagginsww`	`noisy?`
`18:43.25`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`18:43.34`	`Synwyn`	`Well`
`18:43.45`	`Synwyn`	`did i said something wrong ? :p`
`18:43.55`	`Bagginsww`	`you haven't said much at all LOL`
`18:44.09`	`Synwyn`	`Well i could have said boring or something else :p`
`18:44.16`	`Bagginsww`	`although I may have to leave, need to finish some anthrpology homework I seem to be putting off`
`18:44.39`	`Bagginsww`	`btw next year I probably won't be doing much on wowwiki`
`18:44.55`	`Bagginsww`	`leaving off for Hawaii to got 4 year university woohoo`
`18:45.07`	`Bagginsww`	`since it will be full time`
`18:45.15`	`Bagginsww`	`no free time LOL`
`18:46.09`	`Synwyn`	`I couldnt live without free time`
`18:46.09`	`Synwyn`	`:p`
`18:46.18`	`Sky2042`	`...`
`18:46.20`	`Synwyn`	`Oh gawd`
`18:46.27`	`Sky2042`	`yes`
`18:46.30`	`Sky2042`	`what?`
`18:46.31`	`Bagginsww`	`well its stuff I enjoy it won't be an issue`
`18:46.35`	`Bagginsww`	`and its in hawaii`
`18:46.37`	`Synwyn`	`There's the Horde's Player Guide on my chair and i havent noticed it yet.`
`18:46.37`	`Bagginsww`	`free time will be babes`
`18:46.38`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`18:46.44`	`Sky2042`	`lol!]`
`18:46.46`	`Bagginsww`	`and scuba diving`
`18:47.04`	`Bagginsww`	`I must look towards marriage, I don't want to live alone`
`18:47.20`	`Bagginsww`	`much easier to socialize in university setting`
`18:47.48`	`Bagginsww`	`oh synwyn its a good read`
`18:47.51`	`Bagginsww`	`you'll enjoy the book`
`18:48.19`	`Synwyn`	`Guess i'll just be AFk then :p`
`18:48.36`	`Bagginsww`	`heh heh.`
`18:48.50`	`Bagginsww`	`read the sections on Forgotten shadow`
`18:48.56`	`Bagginsww`	`very interesting read`
`18:50.04`	`*** part/#wowwiki sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@205-196-182-22.static.cmts1.phonoscope.net)`
`18:52.49`	`Bagginsww`	`well back to the books take care everyone`
`18:54.04`	`*** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-110-85.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:54.04`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ`
`18:54.09`	`Fin`	`bonsoir`
`18:54.25`	`Adys`	`bonsoir fin, oui ca va bien =)`
`18:54.34`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`woah, the wiki looks odd`
`18:54.43`	`Synwyn`	`mmhhh ....bonjour ? :p`
`18:54.46`	`Adys`	`extremely slow for me kirk`
`18:55.11`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_ said he was upgrading it, so this could be a side-effects atm`
`18:55.28`	`vlad_`	`nope, not yet, this is just load`
`18:55.38`	`Adys`	`www.wowcountdown.com`
`18:55.41`	`Adys`	`btw =P`
`18:55.52`	`Adys`	`gonna upgrade it today vlad_ ?`
`18:55.54`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I guess it is the day before BC, everyone wants to get prepared =)`
`18:56.06`	`Adys`	`yeah kirk`
`18:56.09`	`Adys`	`blizzards fault`
`18:56.12`	`Adys`	`if we're not prepared`
`18:56.20`	`Adys`	`(cmon someone had to do it)`
`18:56.23`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Where to go! Where to go! Honor Hold, nub :P`
`18:56.54`	`vlad_`	`yeah, the person doing the hardware bit of the upgrade is getting delayed :p`
`18:57.03`	`vlad_`	`I wanted to have it done yetserday even but he went and got all sick on me`
`18:57.04`	`Adys`	`Where to go! What to do! So many choices, that all end in pain... and in death.`
`18:57.15`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Damn sickness! :P`
`18:57.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`not blizzards fault`
`18:57.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`they warned us with the cinematic`
`18:57.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`bt<`
`18:57.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`btw*`
`18:58.09`	`*** join/#wowwiki sfl (n=chuckfro@c-69-252-244-27.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)`
`18:58.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I'm looking for peeps with CE that need to get rid of their WoW TCG cards`
`18:58.18`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`lol`
`18:59.09`	`*** join/#wowwiki sfl (n=chuckfro@c-69-252-244-27.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)`
`18:59.44`	`Adys`	`vlad_ : any estimation on when he'll do it then?`
`18:59.54`	`vlad_`	`about an hour`
`18:59.59`	`Adys`	`awesome`
`19:04.19`	`Tekkub`	`burp`
`19:04.31`	`Tekkub`	`I wonder if WalMart will have the CE, prolly not`
`19:05.16`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I'm rather hoping Game in Bristol does :/`
`19:05.28`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Or hopefully some Wiis`
`19:06.19`	`Tekkub`	`you can touch my wii if you want`
`19:06.50`	`Fin`	`ooh`
`19:07.33`	`Fin`	`I've never even see a wii before... wow...`
`19:07.40`	`Fin`	`do you play with your wii much?`
`19:07.50`	`Tekkub`	`:P`
`19:10.41`	`Fin`	`arg`
`19:11.05`	`Fin`	`I've been trying to come up with a question / comment about the wii and I keep coming up with sexually suggestive ones now!`
`19:11.10`	`Fin`	`godammit Tekkub`
`19:11.13`	`Fin`	`:)`
`19:11.25`	`Tekkub`	`not my falt you perv`
`19:11.31`	`Fin`	`bloody well is!`
`19:11.41`	`Tekkub`	`bollocks!`
`19:11.45`	`Fin`	`pff`
`19:11.52`	`Adys`	`I can confirm its not tekkubs fault`
`19:12.02`	`Fin`	`o-ho`
`19:12.06`	`Fin`	`I see, it's like that is it`
`19:12.07`	`Adys`	`I got ts records of fin flirting with me...`
`19:12.42`	`Fin`	`I've always had a -- well I was going to say "soft spot" but that's not quite right -- for the french`
`19:12.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q93PvyKUa2I`
`19:12.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`flirting with the Wii are ya?`
`19:12.58`	`Adys`	`soft spot huh`
`19:13.07`	`Fin`	`not all the time`
`19:13.21`	`Fin`	`BEST`
`19:13.21`	`Fin`	`ad`
`19:13.22`	`Fin`	`ever`
`19:14.37`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Argh I keep getting disconnected`
`19:15.13`	`Tekkub`	`hrm... that ad was boring, I lost interest after the skany hoe started talking`
`19:15.15`	`Fin`	`TS logs are hilarious, everyone keeps connecting and disconnecting and missing each other`
`19:15.37`	`Fin`	`it's for people who like girls I think`
`19:16.06`	`Tekkub`	`it's amazing the power of jiggly breasts and empty heads eh?`
`19:17.02`	`Fin`	`they are magnets; I am but an iron filing`
`19:17.38`	`Fin`	`that was a pretty bad attempt at being poetic`
`19:17.41`	`Fin`	`I don't think I'll try that again`
`19:18.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I think I'm happy with your thought`
`19:19.17`	`Tekkub`	`see, breasts cause brain damage`
`19:19.37`	`Fin`	`so? they're breasts`
`19:20.02`	`Adys`	`fin where are ya :[ online and not even on ts!`
`19:20.13`	`Adys`	`I wanted to talk about breasts and soft spots with ya.`
`19:20.29`	`Fin`	`I don't feel like talking to anyone on TS at the moment, and I'm not online because I'm bored of WoW`
`19:20.31`	`Adys`	`oh shit, we're in a public channel`
`19:20.45`	`Fin`	`actually technically I am online testing my little module but that's a secret!`
`19:21.03`	`Adys`	`you're online, just not logged in!`
`19:21.08`	`Fin`	`oh and hey, someone complained about you moving them around on the server the other day, please check with people before doing that`
`19:23.28`	`Tekkub`	`everyone's bored of WoW, till tomorrow`
`19:23.37`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`im not bored of WoW`
`19:23.40`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`having a blast :D`
`19:23.42`	`*** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Valiento@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)`
`19:23.42`	`Tekkub`	`it's been like that for months`
`19:23.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Fin!!!!`
`19:23.54`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`hmm... Finnish`
`19:24.06`	`Bagginsww`	`well turns out my cousin was able to get me information they have the burning crusade colllector's in their back room`
`19:24.09`	`Teomyr`	`yeah, that "bc is coming out soon"-mentality has taken over quite a while ago`
`19:24.14`	`Bagginsww`	`about 12 of them`
`19:24.22`	`Bagginsww`	`so all I need to do is get over there before 10`
`19:24.27`	`Bagginsww`	`before the store opens`
`19:24.34`	`Bagginsww`	`go in and get it heh heh`
`19:24.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`well Ive only been playing for 2 months -.-`
`19:25.36`	`Fin`	`Tuqui-tuqui: hola!`
`19:25.43`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`hi! \o7`
`19:26.14`	`Tekkub`	`my hubby will be going to walmart directly from work tonight :)`
`19:26.30`	`Tekkub`	`I might even swing by on the way in to see if the tard put it out too early`
`19:26.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`tell him to pick up a copy!`
`19:26.41`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`or just give me the mousepad!`
`19:26.42`	`Tekkub`	`I go in at midnight :)`
`19:26.43`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`thats all I want!`
`19:26.54`	`Tekkub`	`I want the minipet`
`19:26.56`	`Tekkub`	`I'm a pet whore`
`19:27.01`	`Adys`	`two different ts, two different guildchats and three irc channels`
`19:27.06`	`Adys`	`EVERYONE talking about bc`
`19:27.18`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`im not buying TBC -.-`
`19:27.18`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`19:27.33`	`Fin`	`it's not going to be playable for days anyway`
`19:27.34`	`Bagginsww`	`well i know I'll be able to get at least one copy tomorrow heh heh`
`19:27.40`	`Bagginsww`	`probably get 2`
`19:27.41`	`Bagginsww`	`and sell one`
`19:27.47`	`Bagginsww`	`of collector`
`19:27.52`	`Fin`	`people are always surprised every patch day as well!`
`19:27.54`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`<-- need mousepad! Will pay 25 copper`
`19:28.01`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`19:28.06`	`Tekkub`	`oooo... there's an idea`
`19:28.08`	`Tekkub`	`abuse eBay`
`19:28.12`	`Fin`	`no!`
`19:28.14`	`Fin`	`don't do it!`
`19:28.18`	`Bagginsww`	`uh if I knew you I might get you a copy and you pay me for the game and shipping LOL`
`19:28.24`	`Fin`	`it will SUCK YOU IN`
`19:29.06`	`Tekkub`	`I'm not worried, if they have the CE I'll get it, if not whopdee`
`19:29.24`	`Bagginsww`	`heh`
`19:29.45`	`Bagginsww`	`I can care less about hte tcg cards`
`19:29.58`	`Bagginsww`	`I want the mousepad, soundtrack, making dvd, and artbook`
`19:30.02`	`Bagginsww`	`and pet is nice too`
`19:30.04`	`Tekkub`	`unless they have lootz on them :)`
`19:30.09`	`Bagginsww`	`ya unless they have lootz`
`19:30.12`	`Tekkub`	`but I doubt they will since CE gets loot anyway`
`19:30.13`	`Bagginsww`	`then I'll have to debate selling them`
`19:30.15`	`Fin`	`http://grid.13th-floor.org/wowace/ ## WoW 2.0 only`
`19:30.39`	`Bagginsww`	`money or a pet/mount/tabard I'd barely use?`
`19:30.44`	`Tekkub`	`yea I can just see ace's server crashing down tomorrow`
`19:31.01`	`Tekkub`	`glad my latest stuff's on google, google doesn't crash on patch days`
`19:31.07`	`Bagginsww`	`I bet you the servers will be as bad as it was back when WoW was first released LOL`
`19:31.19`	`Bagginsww`	`for the first few months LOL`
`19:31.28`	`Tekkub`	`as bad? my server's heavily in queue already`
`19:31.31`	`Fin`	`actually I never really had any problems! I don't know why, but I remember everyone complaining and me thinking "what?"`
`19:31.33`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`19:31.33`	`Tekkub`	`everyone coming back ><`
`19:31.46`	`Bagginsww`	`I was on a small server so I didn't see much of hte problems`
`19:31.53`	`Bagginsww`	`but still got a free month or two`
`19:31.59`	`Bagginsww`	`heh heh`
`19:32.10`	`Fin`	`no`
`19:32.15`	`Tekkub`	`I'm on one of the "first ones" servers`
`19:32.15`	`Bagginsww`	`I know of pepople who are leaving WoW`
`19:32.23`	`Bagginsww`	`cause BC simplifies things too much`
`19:32.30`	`Tekkub`	`simplifies?`
`19:32.37`	`Bagginsww`	`as in not as hardcore as they wan`
`19:32.39`	`Tekkub`	`lemme guess... they grinded rep?`
`19:32.41`	`Bagginsww`	`no 40 man stuff`
`19:32.48`	`Tekkub`	`fuck 40-mans :)`
`19:32.48`	`Bagginsww`	`no they just liked large raids`
`19:33.03`	`Tekkub`	`40's weren't "hardcore"... they were hearding kittens`
`19:33.08`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`19:33.17`	`Bagginsww`	`well apparently 40 man is more common in other MMOs`
`19:33.18`	`Tekkub`	`which in it's own right isn't easy`
`19:33.21`	`Bagginsww`	`that they came from`
`19:33.32`	`Tekkub`	`but not fun for the majority of the player base`
`19:33.47`	`Bagginsww`	`ya, WoW is aimed more at the casuals`
`19:33.52`	`Tekkub`	`I think it's a good move on blizzy's part really`
`19:34.02`	`Tekkub`	`they try to please the majority`
`19:34.02`	`Bagginsww`	`they'll still keep main base`
`19:34.05`	`Bagginsww`	`the casual players`
`19:34.12`	`Fin`	`it's a fucking nightmare trying to organise 40 people`
`19:34.14`	`Bagginsww`	`and drawn in more`
`19:34.21`	`Tekkub`	`and the hardcore bitches can always hyjal-attune every one of their Lv 70's`
`19:34.26`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`19:34.28`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I like to LEEROY JENKINS!!!`
`19:34.35`	`Tekkub`	`Fin, exactly`
`19:34.40`	`Tekkub`	`hearding kittens...`
`19:34.41`	`Bagginsww`	`others complain how professions are too easy LOL`
`19:34.45`	`Bagginsww`	`or how there isn't enough classes`
`19:34.59`	`Bagginsww`	`so maybe we don't need the hardcores, ;)`
`19:35.13`	`Bagginsww`	`cause frankly I hate professions`
`19:35.18`	`Bagginsww`	`most boring aspect of the game for me`
`19:35.23`	`Bagginsww`	`fishing is horrible`
`19:35.26`	`Tekkub`	`professions have never been anything but a mini-game and a source of resistance gears from what I've seen`
`19:35.44`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`19:35.45`	`Bagginsww`	`and boring`
`19:35.47`	`Tekkub`	`at least they're useful in some respect, FFXI's trades sucked`
`19:35.49`	`Bagginsww`	`I hate mini-games`
`19:36.08`	`Tekkub`	`addon writing is my minigame :)`
`19:36.15`	`Bagginsww`	`someone was tellin me about how they are thinking of moving to something like "vanguarde?`
`19:36.22`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I'm getting myself some Exodar rep :)`
`19:36.23`	`Tekkub`	`bsue needs to reward addon writers with EXP damnit`
`19:36.27`	`Bagginsww`	`and they told me about the profession system, and all I could do was nod my head`
`19:36.31`	`Bagginsww`	`cause it sounded boring`
`19:37.05`	`Bagginsww`	`does doing the low level exodar quests still net between 25-200 rep?`
`19:37.13`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`yup`
`19:37.15`	`Bagginsww`	`wow`
`19:37.17`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`275 for some`
`19:37.22`	`Bagginsww`	`very wow`
`19:37.35`	`Tekkub`	`well any trade that's products aren't consumable inherintly fizzles out at 60`
`19:37.37`	`Bagginsww`	`I love the new rep system heh heh`
`19:37.58`	`Bagginsww`	`worst part of engineering is most of it seems to be non-sellable`
`19:38.05`	`Bagginsww`	`and yet hte gadgets are fun`
`19:38.25`	`Tekkub`	`worst part about engineering is that most all the items are useless`
`19:38.30`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`19:38.34`	`Tekkub`	`fun, but useless :)`
`19:38.47`	`Bagginsww`	`I guess there is a new item that replaces all my mount speed items through engineering`
`19:38.49`	`Bagginsww`	`but doesn's stack`
`19:39.08`	`Tekkub`	`orly?`
`19:39.11`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`19:39.17`	`Bagginsww`	`forget the name`
`19:39.20`	`Tekkub`	`I know hunters and pallies got a speed talent`
`19:39.28`	`Tekkub`	`that also doesn't stack`
`19:39.31`	`Bagginsww`	`ahh`
`19:39.34`	`Tekkub`	`why no stacky blue?`
`19:39.41`	`Bagginsww`	`no idea`
`19:39.45`	`Bagginsww`	`guess they wanted balance :p`
`19:39.54`	`Tekkub`	`and do mount items effect flying mounts?`
`19:39.59`	`Bagginsww`	`ya believe so`
`19:40.05`	`Tekkub`	`balance? okey with the talents, yes`
`19:40.13`	`Tekkub`	`but the items everyone could get`
`19:40.26`	`Bagginsww`	`basically the engineering item gives about 15% speed increase as I recall`
`19:40.32`	`Bagginsww`	`where as having the 3 current items`
`19:40.37`	`Bagginsww`	`only nets you about 8`
`19:40.46`	`Tekkub`	`wrongo :)`
`19:40.51`	`Bagginsww`	`less now?`
`19:40.52`	`Tekkub`	`the 3 get you 25`
`19:41.01`	`Bagginsww`	`oh well I was speaking in the old system`
`19:41.12`	`Tekkub`	`unless they've changed the mechanics of how they stacked`
`19:41.16`	`Bagginsww`	`it was like 3%, 2& and 3%`
`19:41.44`	`Bagginsww`	`and they nerfed run boots enchant to 1% :P`
`19:41.52`	`Tekkub`	`oh right it's 15% not 25%`
`19:42.11`	`Tekkub`	`cause a normal wount is 75% speed with all 3`
`19:42.19`	`Bagginsww`	`plus there is some kind of ability on it`
`19:42.23`	`Bagginsww`	`that will speed you up even faster`
`19:42.26`	`Bagginsww`	`if you activate it`
`19:42.45`	`Tekkub`	`oh so it's goblin rocket boots extreeme basically? :)`
`19:42.50`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`19:43.13`	`Bagginsww`	`not sure if its sellable`
`19:43.25`	`Bagginsww`	`might be engineer only`
`19:43.33`	`Bagginsww`	`I wonder if they have a new mount enchant`
`19:43.36`	`Bagginsww`	`for gloves`
`19:43.48`	`Tekkub`	`http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=16550`
`19:44.16`	`Bagginsww`	`heh`
`19:44.33`	`Bagginsww`	`sellable too nice`
`19:45.45`	`Tekkub`	`I don't see a mount item on thott`
`19:45.53`	`Tekkub`	`but I also don't see that shitty mailbox`
`19:46.04`	`Bagginsww`	`would be nice if you could buy some of the early stuff from vendors`
`19:46.09`	`Bagginsww`	`like the plans that drop in MC`
`19:46.10`	`Bagginsww`	`and others`
`19:48.16`	`Bagginsww`	`llol`
`19:48.20`	`Bagginsww`	`there is a mailbox?`
`19:54.59`	`*** join/#wowwiki Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`19:54.59`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`19:55.54`	`Tekkub`	`yea and it used the crappy fused wiring too`
`19:56.34`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`20:08.40`	`*** join/#wowwiki dotted (n=me@0x555157c7.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`20:18.03`	`Zeal`	`lo all`
`20:19.27`	`Zeal`	`HPG and WoWRPG arrived this morning, no CE though..`
`20:19.31`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`:/`
`20:19.38`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Hey that's a point, where's my delivery`
`20:20.36`	`Zeal`	`if i had payed the extra �10 or w/e i would have had it from game this morning..`
`20:22.13`	`Tekkub`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Burning_Crusade_Dungeon_Keys_and_Attunement`
`20:22.14`	`Tekkub`	`^^`
`20:22.59`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`And now for the Forest Song quests!`
`20:28.52`	`Zeal`	`fucking amazon : /`
`20:29.21`	`Zeal`	`oh now you email to say my order has been dispatched.. when i already have had it for over 12 hours..`
`20:29.47`	`Zeal`	`wait no..`
`20:29.50`	`Zeal`	`its CE`
`20:29.51`	`Zeal`	`yay`
`20:30.05`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`\o/`
`20:30.57`	`Zeal`	`i think..`
`20:31.05`	`Zeal`	`they better not have downgraded it..`
`20:31.20`	`Zeal`	`yes, CE`
`20:31.21`	`Zeal`	`woot`
`20:31.36`	`Zeal`	`"Delivery estimate: 1 Nov 2006 - 16 Jan 2007 "`
`20:31.38`	`Zeal`	`lolz`
`20:32.22`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`lol`
`20:33.05`	`*** join/#wowwiki Johniseq (n=Foulwynd@four.starnet.cz)`
`20:36.23`	`vlad_`	`wiki going down for about 15 min (hopefully!)`
`20:36.28`	`Zeal`	`theron really just doesn't get it..`
`20:36.32`	`Zeal`	`baaah`
`20:36.34`	`Zeal`	`lol kk`
`20:42.27`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`20:42.27`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`20:42.29`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Kk`
`20:42.37`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Hobinheim, just now: <vlad_> wiki going down for about 15 min (hopefully!)`
`20:42.46`	`Hobinheim`	`baugh`
`20:42.47`	`Hobinheim`	`k`
`20:43.08`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`... speed, I hope`
`20:43.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`vlad_ You think therecan be alternative methods generated for ads so that we can get rid of the google ads?`
`20:44.09`	`Hobinheim`	`Patrigan-Syldra, why? google ads are like the bees knees`
`20:44.18`	`Hobinheim`	`everybody's doing it!`
`20:44.32`	`Hobinheim`	`do it.`
`20:45.10`	`Zeal`	`we just need active filtering for them. which no ofense to vlad_, i don't think he's up to doing.`
`20:45.29`	`vlad_`	`you can't usefully filter them`
`20:45.33`	`vlad_`	`the ads are blizzard's problem`
`20:45.42`	`Zeal`	`not usefully though, just retro-actively.`
`20:45.45`	`Hobinheim`	`doesn't google handle the relevancy of the ads?`
`20:45.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yes`
`20:45.51`	`vlad_`	`if they fix the game, the ads will go away`
`20:45.54`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`20:45.59`	`Zeal`	`it does. and gold seling is relevant..`
`20:46.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`vlad_ there is no way to fix the game for that`
`20:46.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`no offense`
`20:46.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but it just annoys me to look at it`
`20:46.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but it also holds back the growth of the wiki`
`20:46.39`	`vlad_`	`so grab adblock or something and have it block google ads`
`20:47.01`	`Zeal`	`i don't get why blizz doesn't take on IGE and such. i'm sure they've sent out plenty of notices to stop, just are scared to battle them in court.`
`20:47.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because you can't actually link/promote sites with ads for goldselling on the wowforums`
`20:47.11`	`vlad_`	`Zeal: they'd lose`
`20:47.17`	`Zeal`	`vlad_, that's not acceptable from blizzard's view.`
`20:47.22`	`Zeal`	`why?`
`20:47.35`	`Hobinheim`	`and we're worried about this why?`
`20:47.40`	`Hobinheim`	`so blizzard will link to us?`
`20:47.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yes and no`
`20:47.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Just thinking about the growth`
`20:47.58`	`Zeal`	`all players have signed an agreement that they would not do such a thing. and simple. the argument of if it's ok for blizz to do that is another matter.`
`20:48.10`	`Zeal`	`*so simple, they win.`
`20:48.19`	`vlad_`	`Zeal: yeah, that's the agreement that would be challenged`
`20:48.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if the wiki would be able to get in the fansite program, we would get newbies first hand AND we would be able to do contests for pets and stuff`
`20:48.51`	`vlad_`	`and IMO, blizzard has a high chance of losing it.. so they don't want to do it`
`20:49.04`	`Zeal`	`it needs to be challange, games need to be able to know they have the right to protect their game.`
`20:49.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if we could promote the website more, we might be able to shake off the "unreliable" tag`
`20:49.27`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`20:49.41`	`Hobinheim`	`ehh i wouldn't worry about it`
`20:49.52`	`Hobinheim`	`as long as wowwiki remains clean and reputable, people will link to it`
`20:50.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`no Hobinheim`
`20:50.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`people even debate our Lore sections`
`20:50.29`	`Zeal`	`and adverting gold selling hacks isn't reputable ;)`
`20:50.33`	`Zeal`	`*and hacks`
`20:50.35`	`vlad_`	`and why not? the Lore sections are probably the most debatable`
`20:50.43`	`Hobinheim`	`from my perspective, i think lore is the minority`
`20:50.49`	`vlad_`	`that as well`
`20:50.51`	`jrr`	`that's what's most debated in here, anyway`
`20:50.59`	`Hobinheim`	`most debated != most useful`
`20:51.04`	`jrr`	`but it's also the least important to someone who uses wowwiki as a reference`
`20:51.11`	`jrr`	`Hobinheim: yeah.`
`20:51.15`	`vlad_`	`Zeal: in all honesty, I would much rather have the gold ads (as text ads even), rather than having gaudy banner or flash ads`
`20:51.19`	`Hobinheim`	`<~~~ practicality fanatic`
`20:51.22`	`Zeal`	`lol, i don't think many people realized how many people and communities hate wowwiki.`
`20:51.25`	`vlad_`	`especially those for "increase your sex drive" and "learn how to attract women"`
`20:51.26`	`Hobinheim`	`err not practicality, usefulness i meant`
`20:51.27`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_, same`
`20:51.32`	`vlad_`	`that get plastered all over allakhazam and other sites often`
`20:51.35`	`vlad_`	`because that's the alternative`
`20:51.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`vlad_`
`20:51.46`	`jrr`	`at least the true.com ones on wow.alla have pretty girls in them`
`20:51.47`	`Zeal`	`i know vlad`
`20:51.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`there are more alternatives`
`20:51.50`	`vlad_`	`jrr: haha`
`20:51.56`	`Hobinheim`	`you don't want to know how to attract high elven women/`
`20:52.11`	`Hobinheim`	`she got big...... ears.`
`20:52.42`	`Zeal`	`pfft.. high elves are skinny and probably near flat chested :P`
`20:52.59`	`Zeal`	`stick to humans tbh, lol.`
`20:53.06`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`level 30 quests are fun at level 60 =)`
`20:53.11`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`PEWPEWPEW`
`20:53.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Kirkburn\|afk killed the discussion :<`
`20:53.53`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It was too easy`
`20:53.58`	`vlad_`	`wiki takes sooo long to backup argh! annoying.`
`20:54.19`	`jrr`	`vlad_: why are you doing it manually?`
`20:54.25`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Goddamn us for making it so big! :P`
`20:54.32`	`vlad_`	`heh, it's the images`
`20:54.44`	`vlad_`	`jrr: I'm about to tinker with the hardware, so wanted a full checkpoint from when I shut down httpd a few min ago`
`20:54.45`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I do delete old ones, but they don't actually disappear do they?`
`20:54.57`	`vlad_`	`Kirkburn\|afk: I'm actually not sure; I need to look into it`
`20:55.07`	`jrr`	`ah okies`
`20:55.14`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I know I can't restore them, at least`
`20:55.32`	`vlad_`	`oh wait`
`20:55.43`	`jrr`	`Hobinheim: do quest names collide with other names?`
`20:55.46`	`vlad_`	`I didn't use my usual backup thing, so I'm backing up all the cached pages, whoops`
`20:55.46`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`There goes thottbot =)`
`20:55.49`	`vlad_`	`oh well`
`20:56.04`	`Hobinheim`	`jrr, huh?`
`20:56.07`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Schoolboy error`
`20:56.38`	`Zeal`	`jrr, rarely if ever.`
`20:56.43`	`Zeal`	`moot point imo though.`
`20:57.42`	`jrr`	`why the separate namespace, then?`
`20:57.48`	`Hobinheim`	`i was kidding about the refs module...`
`20:57.54`	`Hobinheim`	`but the pony was serious`
`20:58.06`	`Hobinheim`	`quest namespace so the quests can auto sort themselves`
`20:58.08`	`Zeal`	`were you around yesturday when i was talking to Adys?`
`20:58.16`	`Adys`	`mm?`
`20:58.18`	`Hobinheim`	`i can't really think of a super compelling reason besides that`
`20:58.19`	`Zeal`	`if not, see my proposal when it returns`
`20:58.44`	`Zeal`	`:p`
`20:58.46`	`Adys`	`><`
`20:59.14`	`Hobinheim`	`he whose name shant be spoken`
`21:00.59`	`Fin`	`what's a refs module?`
`21:01.21`	`Hobinheim`	`Fin, it's what wikipedia uses for citations.`
`21:01.32`	`Hobinheim`	`we have a ghetto homegrown system right now that i'm not too happy about`
`21:01.47`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`"ghetto", lol`
`21:01.47`	`Hobinheim`	`but at this rate, anything to help improve our factual reputation is good`
`21:01.48`	`Fin`	`thanks for explaining`
`21:02.03`	`Hobinheim`	`dude it's a bunch of templates that don't even link together properly...`
`21:02.05`	`Hobinheim`	`i'd say that's pretty ghetto`
`21:02.28`	`Zeal`	`i dislike our ghetto system, but i think it's fundementally correct. refs module should be used along side it.`
`21:02.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I dislike many of the systems in our wiki`
`21:03.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because it's like a whoe CHAOS`
`21:03.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but, hey, that's me and my perfectionistic mind`
`21:03.19`	`Zeal`	`or if my prosposal works, the refs module would replace citations.`
`21:03.36`	`Zeal`	`i'm with you Patrigan-Syldra :P`
`21:05.32`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`People are sometimes so against namespaces because it's Useless`
`21:05.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but, tbh, I like it a whole lote more`
`21:05.56`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`good way to how easily in a link what's it about`
`21:06.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and that's practically the only thing affected by the Namespace`
`21:06.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`be honest`
`21:07.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Quest:Are_We_There_Yeti asy so much more than Are_We_There_Yeti`
`21:07.02`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`heh`
`21:07.05`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`asy* ^_^`
`21:07.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Woah just got +2k Darn rep`
`21:07.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`is*`
`21:07.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`wow what a type oO`
`21:07.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`from what Kirkburn\|afk?`
`21:08.14`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`A week ago my sister got exalted with darnassus by doing the lvl 1-10 quests XD`
`21:08.20`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Forest Song quests`
`21:09.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`either way, I'm going to log now`
`21:09.20`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`need to get up around 5am >< :<`
`21:10.07`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`see ya`
`21:10.55`	`Apollozeus`	`excitement excitement`
`21:11.00`	`Apollozeus`	`two more hours before the dark portal opens`
`21:11.10`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`God you're right`
`21:11.14`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I have no key, however`
`21:11.20`	`Apollozeus`	`nope`
`21:11.22`	`Hobinheim`	`the quest namespace is the only one i would advocate for`
`21:11.22`	`Norlando`	`hello everyone`
`21:11.26`	`Apollozeus`	`I won't be able to play wow for another week`
`21:11.27`	`Apollozeus`	`:(`
`21:11.30`	`Hobinheim`	`because we're already entrenched in it, in the ghetto way`
`21:11.47`	`jrr`	`Norlando: hi`
`21:11.50`	`jrr`	`Apollozeus: school?`
`21:11.57`	`Apollozeus`	`yeah, and my bank is being slow`
`21:11.57`	`Hobinheim`	`so.... just trying to... unghetto-fy the situation`
`21:12.17`	`jrr`	`=\`
`21:12.18`	`Apollozeus`	`I transferred money to my account but it has yet to arrive`
`21:12.43`	`Norlando`	`to anyone on the windrunner server: do you know where kruul is?`
`21:13.09`	`Orclev`	`everyone ready for the meltdown tonight?`
`21:13.10`	`Apollozeus`	`norlando, enjoying his last trips through azeroth`
`21:14.13`	`Norlando`	`erm meltdown?`
`21:15.11`	`Orclev`	`expansion is released tonight at midnight... how do you think the WoW servers are going to hold up to about a million people all trying to log in to create there new BE and drenai characters?`
`21:15.36`	`Norlando`	`true`
`21:15.41`	`vlad_`	`the servers will be down all day tomorrow :p`
`21:15.45`	`Orclev`	`yep`
`21:15.52`	`Orclev`	`think 2.0 patch... only worse`
`21:16.14`	`Hobinheim`	`http://xkcd.com/c208.html for you programmer types out there`
`21:16.33`	`Hobinheim`	`didn't someone say that we're going from one gig to four gigs of ram?`
`21:16.41`	`vlad_`	`yeah`
`21:16.47`	`Orclev`	`going to be ALOT of new players, plus a few who had quit and are just returning to check out the expansion, ontop of the normal load you see with new stuff (IE patches)`
`21:16.49`	`Hobinheim`	`outland is only like.... a third of the size of azeroth right`
`21:16.57`	`Hobinheim`	`so just throw in some maths and you got yourself a party!`
`21:17.17`	`Orclev`	`lol, Perl rocks`
`21:17.18`	`Zeal`	`not server Hobinheim? and guild? and spell? and item? they're all being used as psuedo namespaces atm. server, guild and spell more common though.`
`21:17.23`	`Zeal`	`zone too i've seen`
`21:17.24`	`Norlando`	`kruul is going back through the portal for good tonight?`
`21:17.36`	`Apollozeus`	`probably, Norlando`
`21:17.51`	`Zeal`	`i dunno`
`21:17.57`	`Orclev`	`who is kruul?`
`21:18.05`	`Zeal`	`i think he may stay this side and guard like kazzak.`
`21:18.14`	`Apollozeus`	`perhaps`
`21:18.18`	`Hobinheim`	`hmm now that you mention server`
`21:18.20`	`Apollozeus`	`but he'll stop roaming the land :p`
`21:18.29`	`Hobinheim`	`guild, spell, and item we aren't namespacing with the fierceness`
`21:18.39`	`Apollozeus`	`we should never introduce a namespace named "Server:"`
`21:18.47`	`Apollozeus`	`"Realm:" perhaps, but not server`
`21:18.48`	`Hobinheim`	`Apollozeus, how come?`
`21:18.49`	`Orclev`	`I can't wait till I get my druid to lvl 68... I get a flying form... even if it only works in outland`
`21:18.50`	`Norlando`	`it was fun while it lasted`
`21:18.56`	`Hobinheim`	`lol yeah that's kinda what i was thinkinga bout just now`
`21:18.59`	`Zeal`	`Orclev, i suspect the login servers will hold up poorly, but the realms will be ok, just possible ques`
`21:19.08`	`Hobinheim`	`lol login servers = critted`
`21:19.38`	`Zeal`	`Apollozeus, i'm with you fyi`
`21:19.38`	`Apollozeus`	`let's hope people will make use of the new realms`
`21:19.38`	`Orclev`	`Zeal: yeah, about like patch nights... but if the login server goes down, you're going to have a hell of a time getting in :P`
`21:19.40`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`21:19.57`	`Zeal`	`login servers meter the realm server access, so they'll be fine :P`
`21:20.04`	`Apollozeus`	`I'll have to see that first`
`21:20.14`	`Apollozeus`	`blizzard has seen this coming for a long time`
`21:20.36`	`Orclev`	`what I don't understand is, why dosn't blizzard put some serious muscle behind the login servers... shit, google handles that kind of traffic daily`
`21:21.11`	`Zeal`	`but google is win`
`21:21.11`	`Apollozeus`	`google = far richer than blizzard`
`21:21.20`	`vlad_`	`google also has an architecture for it`
`21:21.24`	`vlad_`	`blizzard doesn't`
`21:21.28`	`Apollozeus`	`blizzard wouldn't be able to afford that`
`21:21.29`	`Orclev`	`not really. And google is built using commodity hardware`
`21:21.31`	`Hobinheim`	`with the latest patch having been released poorly on a HOLIDAY WEEKEND, i've lost all faith in blizzard's QA abilit`
`21:21.48`	`Hobinheim`	`although... i'm also a programmer by profession and i goof up lots... =(`
`21:21.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Whose fault is that?`
`21:22.00`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Msrtin Luther King Jr's>`
`21:22.02`	`Orclev`	`heh, I'm a Java developer`
`21:22.03`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`?`
`21:22.13`	`Hobinheim`	`are you blaming a national here?`
`21:22.14`	`Hobinheim`	`*hero?`
`21:22.24`	`Apollozeus`	`holiday weekend?`
`21:22.24`	`Apollozeus`	`dude`
`21:22.24`	`Apollozeus`	`last weekend before TBC release`
`21:22.29`	`Apollozeus`	`and it's only a holiday weekend in the USA`
`21:22.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It's Martin Luther Kind Jr day in the US`
`21:22.57`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`*King (argh)`
`21:23.07`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yet Im still working`
`21:23.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yay!`
`21:23.16`	`Apollozeus`	`yes, and the majority of wow players doesn't live in the US`
`21:23.20`	`vlad_`	`I am so not working`
`21:23.24`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`-.-`
`21:23.24`	`Apollozeus`	`only 2 out of 8 million`
`21:23.27`	`Hobinheim`	`Apollozeus, lies!`
`21:23.28`	`vlad_`	`this is me, not working`
`21:23.30`	`Hobinheim`	`where are they?`
`21:23.30`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`2.5`
`21:23.32`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`thats a good thing for me then :D`
`21:23.34`	`Orclev`	`kind of a middle class holiday... it's celebrated in the same sense that george washington day is... put it this way, I forgot it was a holiday until last night`
`21:23.38`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`1.5 EU, 4 China`
`21:23.38`	`Hobinheim`	`who else could there possibly be?`
`21:23.44`	`Hobinheim`	`USA, USA, USA!!!`
`21:23.50`	`Apollozeus`	`kirkburn, w/e`
`21:23.51`	`Zeal`	`less than 2 million, as they includes ausies too.`
`21:24.00`	`Apollozeus`	`2.5 is still a majority :p`
`21:24.02`	`Apollozeus`	`err`
`21:24.05`	`Apollozeus`	`minority***`
`21:24.11`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`too late!`
`21:24.13`	`Zeal`	`Kirkburn\|afk, is 2 US, 1.5 EU, 3.5 CH. no idea about KR`
`21:24.17`	`Zeal`	`*it's`
`21:24.28`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Zeal, dang you're right`
`21:24.34`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`whats KR`
`21:24.41`	`Orclev`	`korea I would guess`
`21:24.43`	`Zeal`	`korea`
`21:24.44`	`Hobinheim`	`will everyone please rise for the horde national anthem...`
`21:24.47`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`0.o`
`21:24.52`	`Hobinheim`	`grrr..... grumbe.... hmm.... arrrrggg........`
`21:24.54`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`why would they get their own servers`
`21:24.55`	`Orclev`	`FOR THE HORDE!`
`21:24.59`	`Apollozeus`	`Horde and Alliance are dumb`
`21:25.03`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:o`
`21:25.07`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Horde rocks >:{`
`21:25.09`	`Hobinheim`	`kill some humans...`
`21:25.11`	`Apollozeus`	`they're fighting eachother while they should be fighting the Burning Legion`
`21:25.11`	`Apollozeus`	`;p`
`21:25.15`	`Zeal`	`apparently korea doesn't count towards the 8million : /`
`21:25.25`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`there is no burning legion right now :p`
`21:25.29`	`Apollozeus`	`in 95 minutes, there is`
`21:25.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`isnt the legion waiting for Lich or something?`
`21:25.43`	`Zeal`	`can't recall is signapore (or was it taiwan) has gone live yet`
`21:25.48`	`Zeal`	`*if`
`21:25.49`	`Orclev`	`China probably shouldn't count as 3.5 million, as about 1.5 million is probably gold farmers`
`21:25.55`	`Hobinheim`	`i heard martin luther king was a shaman....`
`21:25.56`	`Apollozeus`	`zeal, there aren't really many people in singapore`
`21:26.05`	`Apollozeus`	`doesn't matter whether they're counted or not`
`21:26.12`	`Zeal`	`rofl Orclev`
`21:26.15`	`Orclev`	`bah, everyone rolls shamy :P`
`21:26.21`	`Zeal`	`lol Apollozeus, true.`
`21:26.33`	`Apollozeus`	`or pally, Orclev`
`21:26.43`	`Orclev`	`god, Pally sucks`
`21:26.55`	`Zeal`	`lies`
`21:26.56`	`Apollozeus`	`they are going to be popular for the upcoming few weeks though`
`21:27.15`	`Apollozeus`	`especially within the Horde`
`21:27.17`	`Orclev`	`saw a really great poem/song thing about pally... something about "I run and scream and shout, but when I trouble I bubble hearth out" or something like that`
`21:27.28`	`Apollozeus`	`yeah, that one rocked`
`21:27.33`	`Apollozeus`	`WOW Insider posted it`
`21:27.35`	`Orclev`	`in trouble even`
`21:28.07`	`Teomyr`	`I can already see the new realms being flooded with Blood Elf Paladins and Draenei Shamans, all with the Gemcutting profession...`
`21:28.19`	`Orclev`	`I was thinking BE Mage`
`21:28.33`	`Orclev`	`although someone pointed out BE Rogue would rock due to its racial`
`21:29.21`	`Orclev`	`I already reserved my BE characters name`
`21:30.27`	`Apollozeus`	`I suspect Silvermoon City will become a failure though`
`21:30.35`	`Apollozeus`	`they've made it so big, but nobody will bother to go there`
`21:30.43`	`Apollozeus`	`since it's so freaking hard to get there`
`21:31.10`	`Apollozeus`	`because of quel'thalas being an instance :/`
`21:32.11`	`Orclev`	`I reserved the best name ever for a BE... heh, ohnegative`
`21:32.21`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`no way....`
`21:32.27`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`mine is ohpositive!`
`21:32.31`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`HIGHFIVE!`
`21:32.35`	`Orclev`	`lol`
`21:33.11`	`Orclev`	`which realm? I'm on darkwing`
`21:33.19`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Gnomeregan :D`
`21:33.21`	`Orclev`	`or was it deathwing...`
`21:33.26`	`Orclev`	`can never remember`
`21:33.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Darkwing Duck was cool`
`21:34.05`	`Orclev`	`I hate that instance... freaking heart of alliance territory and always some high level twinked out rogue waiting by the entrance`
`21:34.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I guess you play in a PvP server -.-`
`21:34.42`	`Orclev`	`yeah`
`21:34.47`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`ours is PvE`
`21:34.49`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`problem is`
`21:34.56`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`we have 3 times as many alliance players`
`21:34.58`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`as Horde`
`21:35.04`	`Orclev`	`sounds about normal`
`21:35.06`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`so Alliance is always taking XR`
`21:35.19`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`this saturday they tried taking Org`
`21:35.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but it was the most disorganized Raid Ive ever seen in any game`
`21:35.49`	`Orclev`	`on our server Horde stomps on alliance if they even try anything, only way they get kills is by camping low level instances`
`21:35.56`	`Apollozeus`	`one of these "jump on the bandwagon"-raids?`
`21:36.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`nah`
`21:36.13`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`well`
`21:36.17`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I cant really tell`
`21:36.18`	`Apollozeus`	`HEY WERE RAIDING ORG WAN2GO WIT US?`
`21:36.25`	`Orclev`	`lol`
`21:36.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but you cant really bandwagon all the way to Org`
`21:36.35`	`Orclev`	`more bodies to the slaughter`
`21:36.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`can you?`
`21:36.40`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`it looks like a failure`
`21:36.46`	`Apollozeus`	`why not?`
`21:36.49`	`Zeal`	`"I'm a dwarf pally, short and stout. Heres my mace, if you'e in doubt. When there's trouble brewing, here me shout. See me flee, as i bubble heart out." perfected! yay`
`21:36.53`	`Apollozeus`	`assembling in stormwind?`
`21:37.02`	`Orclev`	`nice`
`21:37.11`	`Apollozeus`	`or IF`
`21:37.21`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`anyway`
`21:37.27`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`it was 3 big groups`
`21:37.32`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`coming from 3 directions`
`21:37.41`	`Apollozeus`	`sounds smart so far..`
`21:37.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`north of XR`
`21:37.48`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Ratchet`
`21:38.02`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and CampT`
`21:38.11`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`then they crossed the post bridge to Durotar`
`21:38.14`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but by then`
`21:38.21`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`there was a raid waiting for them there`
`21:38.28`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but no attack`
`21:38.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`horde decided to let them to gate of Org`
`21:38.43`	`Orclev`	`so... if there's no PvP, who stops the attacks, and what do they gain by attacking?`
`21:38.49`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but when we got to Org`
`21:38.56`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`only half the alliance came -.o`
`21:38.59`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`0.o`
`21:39.03`	`Apollozeus`	`lol`
`21:39.06`	`Apollozeus`	`slaughterfest`
`21:39.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`they were easily slaughtered`
`21:39.14`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`im a lvl33 and even I got kills`
`21:39.22`	`Apollozeus`	`this is why I'm a strong supporter of the blood elves`
`21:39.30`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`or I froze allies in place to beffinished off by someone else`
`21:39.36`	`Apollozeus`	`that will even out the noobs between the factions`
`21:39.37`	`*** join/#wowwiki cmunn (n=cmunn@c-68-63-221-162.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)`
`21:39.42`	`Apollozeus`	`so people can properly play alliance`
`21:39.48`	`Apollozeus`	`without getting pwned all the time`
`21:40.33`	`Orclev`	`best kill I ever got. My level 27 druid, and my friends level 36 warrior kicked the shit out of a level 46 hunter`
`21:40.36`	`Apollozeus`	`and the horde won't be annoyed by the "Crossroads is under attack!"-thingy`
`21:40.43`	`Apollozeus`	`all the time..`
`21:40.49`	`vlad_`	`ok, wiki should be back up`
`21:40.56`	`vlad_`	`holler at me if there are problems!`
`21:41.09`	`Zeal`	`longest pvp raid i went on started in astranaar, went to xr, then to undercity.`
`21:41.26`	`Apollozeus`	`with the zeppelin?`
`21:41.30`	`Apollozeus`	`lol`
`21:41.50`	`Orclev`	`why do I picture about 50 people all crammed onto the zeppelin`
`21:42.03`	`Zeal`	`another (horde this time), did astranaar then all the way to redridge.`
`21:42.09`	`Apollozeus`	`o_O`
`21:42.12`	`Zeal`	`lol i forget, but likely`
`21:42.34`	`Apollozeus`	`astranaar, darkshore, wetlands, loch modan, dunmorogh, ironforge, stormwind, elwynn, redridge?`
`21:42.53`	`Orclev`	`would be really funny if they had player collision detection... can you imagine the chaos in citys and things like the zeppelin`
`21:43.32`	`Orclev`	`not sure I've ever been to any of the places you just named... maybe wetlands`
`21:43.44`	`Apollozeus`	`alliance territory, orclev`
`21:44.01`	`Orclev`	`just outside ironforge when I ran gnomeragen, but that's about it`
`21:44.02`	`Zeal`	`nope, astranaar, (either gromgol of bb), up through STV and duskwood.`
`21:44.03`	`Apollozeus`	`all of what I jsut mentioned`
`21:44.06`	`Orclev`	`figured it was alliance`
`21:44.17`	`Zeal`	`think bb`
`21:44.47`	`Apollozeus`	`nice places`
`21:44.52`	`Zeal`	`this was all before BG fyi :P`
`21:45.01`	`Apollozeus`	`you miss a lot of the scenery if you only play one factions`
`21:45.05`	`Apollozeus`	`faction*`
`21:46.27`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`oh`
`21:46.31`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and listen to this`
`21:46.40`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`a group of lvl20s alliance players`
`21:46.45`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`tried entering UC today -.-`
`21:46.48`	`Apollozeus`	`haha`
`21:47.01`	`Apollozeus`	`boredom often leads to wonderous things`
`21:47.12`	`Apollozeus`	`and even more often, to stupid things`
`21:47.45`	`Orclev`	`I should try playing on a PvE server some time`
`21:47.51`	`Apollozeus`	`heh`
`21:48.06`	`Apollozeus`	`you could walk all the way to a capital's gates without pvp flag on`
`21:48.20`	`Apollozeus`	`and in Thunder Bluff's case, you could even get inside without the flag`
`21:48.26`	`Orclev`	`entering capital citys flags you?`
`21:48.41`	`Apollozeus`	`not sure, haven't tried`
`21:48.48`	`Apollozeus`	`but guards will attack you immediately`
`21:48.53`	`Apollozeus`	`:p`
`21:48.55`	`Orclev`	`will that flag you?`
`21:48.56`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yeah`
`21:48.56`	`Zeal`	`oo wiki back`
`21:49.03`	`Apollozeus`	`of course orclev`
`21:49.16`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I usually scort alliance players in 1k needles`
`21:49.19`	`Orclev`	`ah, never played on a PvE, so not sure how that all works over there`
`21:49.48`	`Apollozeus`	`you can get attacked by any guard`
`21:49.49`	`Orclev`	`thousand needles is where me and my friend owned that hunter`
`21:50.02`	`Apollozeus`	`at any time, and that WILL turn on your pvp flag`
`21:52.57`	`Orclev`	`it's funny to watch the alliance players and the inexperienced horde players on my server. Case in point, was over by SM when I see a level 25 alliance druid. Knowing SM and the way alliance operate I just watched him. Along comes a level 30 horde who dosn't know any better and attacks the druid. The second he was flagged he gets backstabed by 3 level 40 alliance rogues.`
`21:56.23`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I see the wiki is back`
`21:58.11`	`Hobinheim`	`yeah fastwiki.com`
`21:59.21`	`*** join/#wowwiki Lalavava (n=admin@c-71-224-30-124.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)`
`21:59.43`	`Celebron`	`hiya!`
`21:59.55`	`Bagginsww`	`theron again... ?`
`22:00.20`	`Bagginsww`	`and he's trying to justify his actions by waring and claimi8ng someone else had a "personal war"`
`22:00.40`	`Bagginsww`	`and it was kirkburn's original edit`
`22:00.47`	`Bagginsww`	`zeal was just fixing Kirkburn's fixes`
`22:01.09`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Bagginsww, ?`
`22:01.14`	`Bagginsww`	`check out knight`
`22:01.16`	`Bagginsww`	`history`
`22:01.48`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Knight&action=history`
`22:01.56`	`Bagginsww`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:02.39`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Oh yeah, I know :/`
`22:02.52`	`Bagginsww`	`I just find it funny how he is now justifying his actions by claiming everyone else is warring with him`
`22:02.55`	`Bagginsww`	`very egotistical`
`22:03.19`	`vlad_`	`yay for fastwiki`
`22:03.24`	`vlad_`	`will be fasterwiki later, hopefully`
`22:03.29`	`vlad_`	`as long as I don't turn it into brokenwiki by accident`
`22:04.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Hahaha http://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Kirochi#LawlZ.2C_fine_templates_fer_ye.2C_friendly_fellows_.21`
`22:05.00`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Let's hope not :P`
`22:05.08`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yay for the changes, working well for me atm`
`22:05.25`	`Hobinheim`	`do we have tmeplates for trade icons`
`22:05.30`	`Hobinheim`	`vlad_, thank you btw`
`22:06.13`	`Hobinheim`	`if not i guess that's going on my todo list`
`22:06.23`	`vlad_`	`np, still need to do a mediawiki update, as well as get that awesome itemstats addon up`
`22:06.33`	`vlad_`	`now that the wiki isn't busy falling over iself`
`22:06.34`	`Hobinheim`	`HOTTT!!!`
`22:06.38`	`Hobinheim`	`BOOYAH UPGRADE`
`22:06.43`	`vlad_`	`whoa there`
`22:07.35`	`jrr`	`time to go home and take a nap in preparation of the midnight BC launch =D`
`22:07.36`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`lol`
`22:07.36`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_, any idea what the load on it atm is like?`
`22:07.36`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`The portal opens on the EU servers in 1 hour`
`22:07.48`	`Hobinheim`	`k`
`22:07.52`	`Hobinheim`	`Kirkburn\|afk, excited?`
`22:07.55`	`Bagginsww`	`heh`
`22:08.03`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Not until I have a key! :/`
`22:08.11`	`vlad_`	`right now it's at about 70%`
`22:08.22`	`Hobinheim`	`server load?`
`22:08.22`	`vlad_`	`I -think- I can add another 50% capacity "for free"`
`22:08.24`	`Zeal`	`SoL, including bradford, really don;t understand neutrality..`
`22:08.29`	`vlad_`	`nah, just apache load`
`22:08.33`	`vlad_`	`raw cpu load is at like 20%`
`22:08.46`	`Hobinheim`	`for a developer i'm pretty ignorant about basic stuff like how apache works`
`22:08.56`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Policy/Writing/Lore`
`22:08.58`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Add? How so?`
`22:09.02`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL no one has argued where they were taken from`
`22:09.09`	`vlad_`	`by cranking up the number of open http slots`
`22:09.16`	`Bagginsww`	`just that they were definitley modified to fit "lore"`
`22:09.31`	`Bagginsww`	`and the article goes into saying how they fit into "lore"`
`22:09.47`	`Bagginsww`	`but thanks for that not being in my talk page anymore`
`22:10.44`	`Bagginsww`	`as for daemons its an article that goes beyond just MoM :p`
`22:10.55`	`Bagginsww`	`its also a warcraft 1 database`
`22:11.00`	`Bagginsww`	`and 2`
`22:11.29`	`Bagginsww`	`and now RotH`
`22:11.29`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I think Aeleas' idea is a good one`
`22:11.43`	`Bagginsww`	`I agree we could go with a slightly modified rpg template`
`22:12.09`	`*** join/#wowwiki ben (i=SYP58lVR@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)`
`22:12.35`	`Bagginsww`	`still not convinced that the article is entirely non-canon, on the other hand not going to say its all canon either`
`22:12.48`	`Bagginsww`	`since they have bothered to refrence from it in later sources`
`22:13.22`	`Hobinheim`	`are they called professions or trades`
`22:13.32`	`Hobinheim`	`professions...`
`22:13.38`	`Bagginsww`	`but as it stands I can't go out and say its "canon" because the book doesn't use that terminology`
`22:13.38`	`jrr`	`yes`
`22:13.42`	`jrr`	`trade skills, professions`
`22:13.50`	`Bagginsww`	`but neither does the book say its non-canon either`
`22:13.54`	`Bagginsww`	`either way its fan impression`
`22:14.08`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_, whatever happened about the favicon? I can't make a small version of the wiki icon without giving it some kind of bg, transparency won't work`
`22:14.14`	`jrr`	`it'd be fun to make a bot autoboot those who say "canon" with no warning`
`22:14.26`	`ben`	`What's the deal with about all images being "broken"?`
`22:14.39`	`Bagginsww`	`you'd have to put in Cannon too`
`22:14.43`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`22:14.45`	`vlad_`	`ben: how so?`
`22:14.54`	`Bagginsww`	`cause pepole mispel it alot heh heh`
`22:16.15`	`vlad_`	`Kirkburn\|afk: ugh, right`
`22:16.21`	`ben`	`vlad_: I am reading http://wowwiki.com/Illidan_Stormrage. I see no images at all.`
`22:16.34`	`vlad_`	`use www.`
`22:16.37`	`ben`	`why`
`22:16.51`	`vlad_`	`because images don't work if you don't :p`
`22:17.00`	`Hobinheim`	`yeah why is that`
`22:17.01`	`vlad_`	`the redirect is supposed to rewrite before redirecting, but it doesn't`
`22:17.02`	`Hobinheim`	`can we fix that?`
`22:17.16`	`vlad_`	`yes, but i'm going to switch web servers soon`
`22:17.31`	`Hobinheim`	`from what to what?`
`22:17.34`	`Hobinheim`	`or just diff computers?`
`22:17.35`	`vlad_`	`from apache to lighttpd`
`22:17.39`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`When you say soon ... ? hehehe`
`22:17.48`	`vlad_`	`like, in a few hours, ideally`
`22:17.53`	`ben`	`Sounds reasonable!`
`22:17.59`	`Hobinheim`	`hmm why not apache`
`22:17.59`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`awesome`
`22:18.06`	`vlad_`	`Hobinheim: too much overhead`
`22:18.07`	`Hobinheim`	`my ignorance astounds me...`
`22:18.20`	`Hobinheim`	`and light and do everything we need from apache?`
`22:18.27`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`God Hobinheim, you're sooooo ignorant! :P`
`22:18.27`	`vlad_`	`we don't need that much is the thing`
`22:18.35`	`vlad_`	`like, it just needs to hand things off to php`
`22:18.41`	`Hobinheim`	`icic...`
`22:18.42`	`vlad_`	`wikipedia switched to lighttpd for this same reason`
`22:18.49`	`Hobinheim`	`booyah switching like the big boys!`
`22:18.50`	`ben`	`Do you use mod_rewrite currently?`
`22:18.55`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`haha`
`22:19.01`	`vlad_`	`ben: yes`
`22:19.03`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Not sure I wanted to know that`
`22:19.17`	`Fin`	`lighthttpd has a mod_rewrite`
`22:19.21`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Omg papper!`
`22:19.25`	`vlad_`	`yes, it does`
`22:19.29`	`ben`	`Oh, I see. I thought you implied php was going to do that too.`
`22:19.31`	`Fin`	`I was looking for a benchmark of its overhead the other day`
`22:19.34`	`vlad_`	`nah`
`22:19.36`	`Zeal`	`we're switching to lighttpd?`
`22:20.03`	`Zeal`	`ah kk`
`22:20.04`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I'm over halfway to honored with exodar now :)`
`22:20.04`	`Fin`	`and what sort of load it put on the server as compared to not using it`
`22:20.22`	`Zeal`	`all i know is it's the best for ruby on rails, lol.`
`22:20.36`	`Fin`	`couldn't find anything, have to do my own I guess`
`22:20.41`	`ben`	`lol ruby`
`22:20.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Hell, why not - I'm going to try the NE start quests :P`
`22:21.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It's gonna be like pew pew pew`
`22:21.19`	`Bagginsww`	`Kirkburn you remember that tcg screenshot you either modified or added?`
`22:21.24`	`Bagginsww`	`the one that has the same picture as the TCG`
`22:21.31`	`Bagginsww`	`but has small print saying "Lore"`
`22:21.32`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Player Entering World all over the shop!`
`22:21.42`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`mmhmm?`
`22:21.47`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I know, it's not very different`
`22:21.49`	`Zeal`	`< Mon 15/01/2007 > < 21:50:30 pm > <Zeal> oo wiki back <-- < Mon 15/01/2007 > < 21:57:57 pm > <@Kirkburn\|afk> I see the wiki is back <-- slow :p`
`22:21.51`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe we could have one that shows the Warcraft RPG symbole`
`22:21.54`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I wasn't feeling v creative`
`22:22.04`	`Bagginsww`	`and put small text saying "Appendix III"`
`22:22.08`	`Bagginsww`	`in a similar fashion`
`22:22.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Okay, I'll do that later`
`22:22.25`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I'll recolour them too`
`22:22.40`	`Bagginsww`	`still we can't be drawn into the whole canon or not canon debate`
`22:22.46`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Indeed no`
`22:22.46`	`Bagginsww`	`not our job to put our opinions`
`22:22.51`	`Bagginsww`	`but we can at least say its form appendix 3`
`22:23.03`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yuber's comments still make me smile =)`
`22:23.09`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`22:23.19`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`"Hominem isn't a word!"`
`22:23.45`	`Hobinheim`	`what you say about me!`
`22:24.01`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Hobinheim, did you see the thread?`
`22:24.23`	`Hobinheim`	`no`
`22:24.26`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Eventually he started calling me WoWWiki Whore, then Stupid WoWWiki Whore, then "Void" (?)`
`22:24.45`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yuber = Theron the Just`
`22:24.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`He's also a liar`
`22:26.44`	`Bagginsww`	`I posted`
`22:26.44`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`1 hit kills :)`
`22:26.49`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`where?`
`22:27.45`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Policy/Writing/Lore#The_infamous_.27.27Appendix_III.27.27`
`22:28.44`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Cool`
`22:31.00`	`Bagginsww`	`and hobiheim can you create a special RPGAIII citation?`
`22:31.36`	`Bagginsww`	`something that points out that its contraversial`
`22:31.56`	`Bagginsww`	`but so that it can be used to refrence material if a connection is made`
`22:32.32`	`Zeal`	`no ><`
`22:32.48`	`Bagginsww`	`zeal the header will be written exactly like all other headers`
`22:33.01`	`Zeal`	`no it wont, not if you add in it that it;s controversial`
`22:33.13`	`Bagginsww`	`the controversial bit remains at the end of the articles`
`22:33.26`	`Bagginsww`	`the actual header will be the same pattern we have followed for every soruce`
`22:33.34`	`Bagginsww`	`"may not be found in other sources of lore`
`22:34.10`	`Zeal`	`but the issue is, that whole source Bagginsww, you know yourself that the iformation from Appendix3 is in non-appendix 3 sources`
`22:34.14`	`Zeal`	`it can;t be done`
`22:34.26`	`Bagginsww`	`its very difficult issue ya`
`22:34.36`	`Bagginsww`	`I know very well that some material has made it into other sources`
`22:34.46`	`Bagginsww`	`and that some was in MoM in earlier chapters even`
`22:34.59`	`Bagginsww`	`we can't put the heading on material that shows up in more than one source`
`22:34.59`	`Zeal`	`you would have to make the template either apply to MoM as a whole, and use it in articles where they later use the info. or not at all.`
`22:35.11`	`Zeal`	`there should not be a header specific to Apendix3 itself.`
`22:35.12`	`vlad_`	`is the wiki still up?`
`22:35.28`	`Bagginsww`	`then we open up the problem of having to make specific headers to every single source`
`22:35.31`	`Hobinheim`	`oh no slowwiki...`
`22:35.36`	`Hobinheim`	`it's not =(`
`22:35.36`	`vlad_`	`is it up?`
`22:35.38`	`Bagginsww`	`the APG header`
`22:35.39`	`vlad_`	`damnit, wtf`
`22:35.40`	`Bagginsww`	`the HPG header`
`22:35.42`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Argh, HMV cancelled on me`
`22:35.47`	`Zeal`	`this is my point baggins.. we should be doing it period`
`22:35.48`	`vlad_`	`it's not the host btw, it's network crap`
`22:35.51`	`Zeal`	`darn Kirkburn\|afk : /`
`22:52.50`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I didn't notice the email before`
`22:52.50`	`Zeal`	`everything in the wiki has to be balanced.. and in this case we should not be doing it period.`
`22:52.51`	`Bagginsww`	`btw there is ap icture of a strange creature in LoC that looks strangly wyvern like :p although not sureit has wings LOL`
`22:52.51`	`Bagginsww`	`I mean dragon wyvern`
`22:52.51`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`22:52.52`	`Zeal`	`yeah i guessed you did :P`
`22:52.52`	`Bagginsww`	`it doesn't match anything we have seen`
`22:52.52`	`Zeal`	`btw Bagginsww, did you see i got WoWRPG and HPG today?`
`22:52.53`	`Bagginsww`	`and its slain n sime story`
`22:52.53`	`Bagginsww`	`gratz`
`22:52.53`	`Bagginsww`	`what do you think/`
`22:52.53`	`Zeal`	`not read yet :p`
`22:52.53`	`Zeal`	`but certainly snazy`
`22:52.53`	`Zeal`	`hardbacks ftw`
`22:52.54`	`Bagginsww`	`I'll let you start working on the class articles`
`22:52.54`	`Bagginsww`	`from the book LOL`
`22:52.54`	`Zeal`	`let me? lol. ty ;)`
`22:52.54`	`Bagginsww`	`I've done all the WoWrpg ones`
`22:52.54`	`Bagginsww`	`but there is alot to do for HPG`
`22:52.54`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`22:52.56`	`Bagginsww`	`primal needs upgrade, shadow acendent etc`
`22:53.01`	`vlad_`	`ok, that was freaky`
`22:53.02`	`vlad_`	`the network happened to die -just- as I was logging in to my newly-setup management stuff`
`22:53.04`	`vlad_`	`I was trying to figure out wtf I could've broken`
`22:53.05`	`Zeal`	`fuck me is there alot of reading..`
`22:53.06`	`Zeal`	`didn't expect so much`
`22:53.09`	`Zeal`	`well for not Bagginsww, i'm gunna just be finishing of RotH and CoH, the mangas and hopefully oBaH before i get to these, but i will look up citations and do fact checks before then.`
`22:53.13`	`Zeal`	`*for now`
`22:53.24`	`Bagginsww`	`out of curiosity is aeleas on any staff?`
`22:53.24`	`Bagginsww`	`ahh cleaners`
`22:53.24`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`10 mins until EU opening`
`23:10.46`	`Adys`	`http://adys.stools.net/darkportal2.jpg`
`23:10.46`	`Adys`	`<3`
`23:10.46`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`wow`
`23:10.46`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Nice pic`
`23:10.46`	`Bagginsww`	`zeal I'm thining more along the lines of red marking any citation that's controversial`
`23:10.46`	`Bagginsww`	`not large heading`
`23:10.46`	`Bagginsww`	`so people have a clear idea that red means "controversial"`
`23:10.46`	`Bagginsww`	`they can question if they like`
`23:10.46`	`Zeal`	`bagginsww, see my last issue`
`23:10.46`	`Bagginsww`	`btw I agree with you`
`23:10.46`	`Tekkub`	`how about a giant *`
`23:10.46`	`Bagginsww`	`giant * that's less obtrusive`
`23:10.47`	`Tekkub`	`by giant I mean like an inch square :)`
`23:10.47`	`Zeal`	`i think it's fine simplying refrencing MoM as the source.`
`23:10.47`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:10.47`	`Tekkub`	`or perhaps change the background of the text to a dark red, with a * at the end?`
`23:10.47`	`Zeal`	`if they are looking for accurate info, they are going to be looking at the source, they will see controversy surrounds MoM, and know they might want to consider how they use it.`
`23:10.47`	`Bagginsww`	`well we don't want it looking too garrish LOL`
`23:10.47`	`Adys`	`00.00`
`23:10.47`	`Adys`	`wewt`
`23:10.47`	`Bagginsww`	`heh heh`
`23:10.47`	`Zeal`	`EU is on your time right Adys?`
`23:10.47`	`Adys`	`www.wowcountdown.com`
`23:10.47`	`Zeal`	`that's a yes then :P`
`23:10.48`	`Zeal`	`those people do realize thy need to relog and upgrade to even see anything? :p`
`23:10.48`	`Bagginsww`	`btw everyone nearly every rpg source has material on how to adapt into or from other rpgs LOL so if we took that criteria to mean non-canon`
`23:10.48`	`Bagginsww`	`we'd have to throw out everythign pretty much`
`23:10.48`	`Zeal`	`yeah, i assumed as much baggins`
`23:10.48`	`Zeal`	`the same applies for games. we don;t go around saying Night Elves use the holy light..`
`23:10.48`	`Bagginsww`	`there were some sections in MoM in an earlier section`
`23:10.48`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It's open!`
`23:10.48`	`Bagginsww`	`for pitlords for example`
`23:10.49`	`Bagginsww`	`that has a special`
`23:10.49`	`Bagginsww`	`notice`
`23:10.49`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`No annoucement though`
`23:10.49`	`Zeal`	`just because a source adapts mechanics into it, doesn;t make the source controversial or null.`
`23:10.49`	`Bagginsww`	`this notice isn't used in A3 btw`
`23:10.49`	`Bagginsww`	`its tates, "If you use pit lords in another universe campaign, add these creatures to their summoning abilites"`
`23:10.49`	`Zeal`	`wtf is up with me hitting ; instead of ' lately : /`
`23:10.49`	`Bagginsww`	`obviously I would not refrence those creatures LOL`
`23:10.49`	`Bagginsww`	`cause it says another universe campaign`
`23:10.49`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`23:10.49`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Adys, btw, "stools", lovely name for a website`
`23:10.49`	`Adys`	`lol`
`23:10.50`	`Adys`	`its my webhost`
`23:10.50`	`Adys`	`swisstools`
`23:10.50`	`Zeal`	`gunna add that bit about mechnics..`
`23:10.50`	`Bagginsww`	`just as much as I don't refrence the classes mentioned at the beginning of the WRPG as not existing in the Warcraft Universe`
`23:10.50`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Doesn't change the fact it means 'po' in english :)`
`23:10.50`	`Bagginsww`	`well unless another source was to establish said classes`
`23:10.50`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`*poo`
`23:10.50`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I feel silly writing that`
`23:10.50`	`Bagginsww`	`WRPG for example says that Monks do not exist`
`23:10.50`	`Bagginsww`	`however World of Warcraft would beg to differ lolw`
`23:10.50`	`Bagginsww`	`though there is next to no lore to worry about creating a topic for them`
`23:10.50`	`Bagginsww`	`as there are like only 3 types of monks in WoW`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`and most of them in the scarlet crusade`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`they use kungfu LOL`
`23:10.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`heh`
`23:10.51`	`Adys`	`World Server is down`
`23:10.51`	`Adys`	`goodbye stormrage rofl`
`23:10.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I remember playing D&D with my friends - I was falling down a lift shaft, so they shot a harpoon through my leg`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`Yep Dark Temple has gone through alot of names over its history`
`23:10.51`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`They had to roll to see if they aimed correctly :P`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`Temple of Kabbor or something like that`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`then Dark Temple`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`then Fortress Shadowmoon`
`23:10.51`	`Bagginsww`	`then Dark Citadel`
`23:10.52`	`Bagginsww`	`and back to Dark Temple`
`23:10.52`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:10.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`heh`
`23:10.52`	`Bagginsww`	`by the time you rolled you were dead eh kirburn?`
`23:10.52`	`Bagginsww`	`if it was real life LOL`
`23:10.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Actually, they did manage to get it through my thigh`
`23:10.52`	`Bagginsww`	`I no very little about DnD except for what people have told me, and satires`
`23:10.52`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:10.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`However, I then passed out as I failed my conciousness check :/`
`23:10.53`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:10.53`	`Bagginsww`	`these rolls exist in WoW or so I hear`
`23:10.53`	`Bagginsww`	`they are just transparent`
`23:10.53`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yeah pretty much`
`23:10.53`	`Bagginsww`	`night elves use holy light?`
`23:11.41`	`ben`	`I do not think I have ever seen someone roll on whether they managed to shoot a harpoon through my legs.`
`23:11.41`	`Bagginsww`	`I thought the ingame lore explained it through lunar power`
`23:11.41`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:11.41`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`You lol too much, your sides will split =)`
`23:11.41`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe the sides of my computer`
`23:12.12`	`Bagginsww`	`most of the time I LoL its mentall not physically LOL`
`23:12.12`	`Bagginsww`	`although something said in SoL thread made me spray on my monistor :p`
`23:12.12`	`ben`	`LOL`
`23:12.12`	`Zeal`	`i dunno about WoW tbh, but WC3 used a rolling mechanic behind the scenes for everything.`
`23:12.37`	`Zeal`	`armor save throws and all that`
`23:12.37`	`Bagginsww`	`*monitor`
`23:12.37`	`Bagginsww`	`interesting`
`23:12.37`	`ben`	`Zeal: Considering WoW has chances to hit and miss and crit and partial resists and everything, it is a safe bet to say that WoW uses rolls for everything as well.`
`23:12.54`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm pretty sure most Final Fantasies do`
`23:12.59`	`Bagginsww`	`I've been told final fantasy 1 for instance is very close to the original DnD`
`23:13.04`	`Zeal`	`they probably do, but that doesn't make it so. can jsut as easily be doen without.`
`23:13.16`	`ben`	`How?`
`23:13.31`	`Zeal`	`er? most games do without`
`23:14.06`	`Bagginsww`	`they have some form of randomizer`
`23:14.18`	`Bagginsww`	`maybe not so called "dice rolls"`
`23:14.39`	`ben`	`a dice roll is just another randomizer and you can easily map between any kind of randomizer and an n-sided die.`
`23:14.48`	`Bagginsww`	`even non rpgs hav esome kind of randomizers for actions`
`23:14.51`	`Zeal`	`Bagginsww, it don't beleive wow ever actually says "consider night elves using holy light to be elune" but it the quests probably go through all that stuff saying you use elunes light.`
`23:15.05`	`Bagginsww`	`that's what I mean`
`23:15.21`	`Bagginsww`	`undead pretty much go into the idea you are using some kind of shadow corrupted belief system`
`23:15.24`	`Zeal`	`*to be using elune's light"`
`23:15.35`	`Zeal`	`yeah i know.. i detest that`
`23:15.49`	`Bagginsww`	`as for individual powers however, there is no lore explaining why some use holy light and elune, or shadow bases powers`
`23:15.54`	`ben`	`I thought the undead considered the light to be really stupid but hey, they are not going to give up its power.`
`23:16.05`	`Bagginsww`	`well lore wise`
`23:16.12`	`Bagginsww`	`they may not actually be able to use holy power`
`23:16.13`	`Zeal`	`the light would have left them afaik ben`
`23:16.17`	`Bagginsww`	`there is a story in HPG`
`23:16.21`	`Bagginsww`	`short story`
`23:16.27`	`Zeal`	`same as it did with the Blood Elves : /`
`23:16.32`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`23:16.40`	`Bagginsww`	`that's mentione in the short story`
`23:16.40`	`ben`	`The light is retarded >:(`
`23:16.59`	`Bagginsww`	`btw ben read my unfinished article on "Forgotten Shadow"`
`23:17.24`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Forgotten_Shadow`
`23:17.44`	`*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-82-224.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`23:17.50`	`Bagginsww`	`and ya, its probably more direct quotions than it should be. If someone wants to paraphrase a bit more I'd appreciate it`
`23:18.13`	`Zeal`	`and because wow lumps arcane used for evil as shadow too, i generally consider shadow priests as warlocks., but more along the lines of what Netherzim do, currently -necromancy.`
`23:18.18`	`Bagginsww`	`I just kind of get ahead of myself sometimes`
`23:18.22`	`ben`	`I am not particularly interested in Warcraft RPG material`
`23:18.40`	`Zeal`	`plus it makes sense they would learn of the dreadlord ways..`
`23:18.42`	`Bagginsww`	`most of what we know about Holy Light religion is from the RPG too LOL`
`23:18.49`	`Bagginsww`	`the three tenants etc`
`23:18.58`	`ben`	`Yeah. I do not really care for that.`
`23:19.12`	`Bagginsww`	`sadly the game really does not go into much lore ont he issue`
`23:19.17`	`Bagginsww`	`just a few refrences here and there`
`23:20.02`	`Trae`	`Do we have a good page for druids like this priest page: http://www.wowwiki.com/Priest_builds`
`23:20.47`	`Zeal`	`Bagginsww, that tends to follow Satanism. Which in general, most agnostics follow without realizing it. I do.`
`23:20.49`	`ben`	`Trae: just go for 0/41/10 geez`
`23:20.55`	`Trae`	`heh`
`23:21.13`	`Bagginsww`	`divine humanism actually`
`23:21.19`	`Bagginsww`	`satanism is a form of divine humanism`
`23:21.24`	`Zeal`	`yuup`
`23:21.27`	`Bagginsww`	`well main satanism`
`23:21.33`	`Bagginsww`	`there are actually like 3 types LOL`
`23:21.37`	`Trae`	`L10 :P`
`23:21.40`	`Zeal`	`yeah, lol`
`23:21.44`	`Trae`	`but I do want to go feral`
`23:21.54`	`Zeal`	`you're level 10? hehe`
`23:21.58`	`Bagginsww`	`luckily the crazy human sacricing type are few`
`23:22.05`	`Zeal`	`go the way of the oomkin :p`
`23:22.24`	`Bagginsww`	`actually I'm pretty sure most that practice any type of sacrificing is few`
`23:22.43`	`Zeal`	`yuup that true. but it's that form that is in the public eye`
`23:23.00`	`Bagginsww`	`few years back had outbreak of pet sacrificers int he area happened near every holloween for like 5 years`
`23:23.14`	`Bagginsww`	`no way to know if it was from satanists or just sick individuals`
`23:23.23`	`Zeal`	`the moment someone mentions satanism people think devil worship, sacrifice etc. not beleif in ones self and those around you.`
`23:23.32`	`Bagginsww`	`lol`
`23:23.46`	`Bagginsww`	`really though satanists should jsut call themselves divine humanists`
`23:23.53`	`Bagginsww`	`as most don't actually believe in satan as a concept`
`23:24.00`	`Bagginsww`	`more of a temr`
`23:24.02`	`Bagginsww`	`*term`
`23:24.02`	`Zeal`	`why divine though? :s`
`23:24.03`	`ben`	`Zeal: Might be because satan is pretty close to devil, as a word`
`23:24.12`	`Zeal`	`yuup`
`23:24.18`	`ben`	`Zeal: Really their fault for sucking at words.`
`23:24.20`	`Zeal`	`but the media hasn;t helped`
`23:24.23`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:24.33`	`ben`	`Stop saying LOL or I am going to stab you in the face`
`23:24.37`	`Bagginsww`	`well the divine humanist branches don't think of Satan as a devil`
`23:24.40`	`Zeal`	`LOL`
`23:25.07`	`Zeal`	`Mr Satan from DBZ :p`
`23:25.12`	`Bagginsww`	`more along the lines of an ideal that symbolizes freedom of choice`
`23:25.12`	`ben`	`Apparently "divine humanists" are pretty retarded.`
`23:25.34`	`Bagginsww`	`against an oppressive leader`
`23:25.41`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:25.46`	`Zeal`	`i don't know the history of the word satan, but i wouldn't surprise me if todays common use is wrong.`
`23:25.58`	`Zeal`	`so they probably aren't 'retarded'`
`23:26.07`	`Bagginsww`	`it means Accuser`
`23:26.09`	`Bagginsww`	`in hebrew`
`23:26.22`	`Bagginsww`	`as he accused god`
`23:26.28`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Lol, it's going to be easy to get exalted with Darnassus at this rate`
`23:26.33`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:26.34`	`Zeal`	`accused god of?`
`23:26.54`	`Bagginsww`	`well in the story in the bible he accused god of witholding knowledge`
`23:26.59`	`Bagginsww`	`not giving him greater power`
`23:27.01`	`Zeal`	`it's a shame those at 60 can;t benefit as much from the new rep.. i want a raptor got dammit.`
`23:27.03`	`Zeal`	`on my orc`
`23:27.07`	`Bagginsww`	`and then he started thinking he was better than god`
`23:27.25`	`Zeal`	`that seems to fit well to divine humanism to me then`
`23:27.26`	`ben`	`The whole adversary thing might be a hint.`
`23:27.39`	`Bagginsww`	`Then he declared war on God`
`23:28.03`	`Bagginsww`	`isntead of allowing it to turn to blood shed God banished him, and allowed him the right to prove him wrong`
`23:28.12`	`Bagginsww`	`well not exactly prove him wrong`
`23:28.14`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`+7000 rep so far`
`23:28.17`	`Bagginsww`	`but the right to convince others to join him`
`23:28.26`	`Bagginsww`	`the setting up of a tree of good and evil`
`23:28.27`	`Bagginsww`	`for example`
`23:28.43`	`Zeal`	`in the exist of jews and christians, aye :P`
`23:28.46`	`Bagginsww`	`and then giving invididuals the right ot choose to eat it`
`23:28.47`	`Zeal`	`*eye of`
`23:28.54`	`Bagginsww`	`legend, belief whatever`
`23:29.04`	`Zeal`	`cool`
`23:29.07`	`Bagginsww`	`I can stop if you aren't interested`
`23:29.19`	`Bagginsww`	`this is merely anthropological discussion`
`23:29.21`	`Bagginsww`	`not religious LOL`
`23:29.21`	`Zeal`	`the more i learn about the bible, the more i side away from it :P`
`23:29.36`	`ben`	`The annoying part about mythology is that about anyone can make up their own stories and they are as correct as everybody else's`
`23:29.39`	`Zeal`	`so i don't mind at all, lol`
`23:29.46`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:29.47`	`Zeal`	`ofc ben`
`23:29.59`	`Bagginsww`	`fanon is like that`
`23:30.01`	`Bagginsww`	`too`
`23:31.20`	`Bagginsww`	`believe me religious debate is like a canon debate`
`23:31.31`	`Bagginsww`	`oh wait canon originates from religioud debate :p`
`23:31.35`	`Zeal`	`how many people read the wisp+eredar theory back from E3 btw? is it on the wiki? :s`
`23:31.38`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Except religions kill each other over it`
`23:31.57`	`Bagginsww`	`actually some canon debates get as bad`
`23:32.04`	`Bagginsww`	`just not online LO`
`23:32.06`	`Bagginsww`	`only when in person`
`23:32.08`	`Zeal`	`Kirkburn\|afk, i'm sure soem lore fans would kill over canon..`
`23:32.32`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`heh`
`23:32.33`	`Tekkub`	`now here's a neat idea for a dongle...`
`23:32.34`	`Tekkub`	`http://www.dailytech.com/MoGo+Dapter+Worlds+Smallest+Bluetooth+Adapter/article5711.htm`
`23:32.36`	`Tekkub`	`^^`
`23:33.01`	`Bagginsww`	`I'm happy that I'm unknown in real life cause I've actually gotten death threats before`
`23:33.12`	`Bagginsww`	`back in star wars forums LOL`
`23:33.16`	`Bagginsww`	`for supporting hte authors`
`23:33.24`	`Bagginsww`	`and Lucasfilm's view of canon`
`23:33.38`	`Bagginsww`	`from those that had the dumb, "I think its stupid so it isn't canon"`
`23:33.44`	`Bagginsww`	`arguements`
`23:33.55`	`Bagginsww`	`very irate PM`
`23:34.02`	`Bagginsww`	`lots of nasty terms`
`23:34.15`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`23:34.15`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`23:34.15`	`Bagginsww`	`on what he'd do to my body`
`23:34.20`	`Bagginsww`	`after he killed me`
`23:34.31`	`Bagginsww`	`ya let's say I reported him LOL`
`23:34.37`	`Hobinheim`	`so uhh i'm gonna start on that professions icon template now...`
`23:34.51`	`Hobinheim`	`unless somebody already knows of one`
`23:35.01`	`Adys`	`which one hob,`
`23:35.02`	`Adys`	`?`
`23:35.15`	`Adys`	`(yeah I get a dingdingding when you say "icon" aswell as "adys"`
`23:35.21`	`Hobinheim`	`....`
`23:35.22`	`Adys`	`- no i dont btw)`
`23:35.26`	`Hobinheim`	`i c o n`
`23:35.30`	`Adys`	`rofl`
`23:35.37`	`Bagginsww`	`so was there an special gate opening event during hte coutndown?`
`23:35.39`	`Hobinheim`	`like we have templates for classes and races`
`23:35.45`	`Adys`	`yeah baggins`
`23:35.46`	`Zeal`	`Hobinheim, tbh. you can probably combine all tree`
`23:35.47`	`Bagginsww`	`like all hell breaking loose`
`23:35.47`	`Hobinheim`	`iw as wondering if we had professions handled as well`
`23:35.52`	`Bagginsww`	`what time does it start?`
`23:35.57`	`Bagginsww`	`I've already done the early stuff`
`23:35.59`	`Hobinheim`	`btw i called my gamestop`
`23:36.03`	`Adys`	`heres a screenshot`
`23:36.03`	`Adys`	`http://adys.stools.net/16january2006-00.05.jpg`
`23:36.05`	`Hobinheim`	`gonna pick up my copy in tree hours =P`
`23:36.11`	`Hobinheim`	`i can't do math btw`
`23:36.13`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:36.18`	`Bagginsww`	`that's awsome`
`23:36.19`	`Bagginsww`	`end of the world`
`23:36.24`	`Adys`	`indeed =P`
`23:36.33`	`Adys`	`tree hours?`
`23:36.34`	`Hobinheim`	`i'm conflicted... i have work stuff due tomorrow`
`23:36.35`	`Adys`	`wow`
`23:36.36`	`Bagginsww`	`too bad they didn't do the end of beta event`
`23:36.38`	`Hobinheim`	`which i didn't start... =(`
`23:36.43`	`Bagginsww`	`have forces attack all cities at all times`
`23:36.59`	`Hobinheim`	`what's a good title for the template`
`23:37.03`	`Hobinheim`	`Professionicon?`
`23:37.03`	`Zeal`	`{{charicons\|<race>\|<class>\|<profesion1>\|<profession2>\|<width>\|<height>}} or something`
`23:37.30`	`Hobinheim`	`such a long template... proficon...`
`23:37.41`	`Adys`	`hob what do you wanna do with it?`
`23:37.50`	`Zeal`	`and? it's stupid to waste space with multiple templates doing the same thing`
`23:38.07`	`Hobinheim`	`{{proficon\|<nameofprofession>\|dimension}}`
`23:38.08`	`Zeal`	`*same thing with a different set of outcomes`
`23:38.34`	`Hobinheim`	`zeal, you're probably right, i'm just trying to not disrupt the status quo`
`23:38.44`	`Hobinheim`	`things like merging requires work. and you know how i hate work...`
`23:38.46`	`Adys`	`btw hob`
`23:38.51`	`Adys`	`hardware upgrade \o/`
`23:38.54`	`Zeal`	`partly why i made {{quality}}`
`23:39.00`	`Adys`	`wiki is quite fast now =)`
`23:39.15`	`Zeal`	`Hobinheim, i'll do if it if you want`
`23:39.17`	`Hobinheim`	`actually, i don't see the use in quality`
`23:39.24`	`Zeal`	`oh?`
`23:39.27`	`Bagginsww`	`zeal defend me`
`23:39.30`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:39.38`	`Bagginsww`	`you found the appendix 3 stuff interesting right?`
`23:39.59`	`Hobinheim`	`w/e i'll come back with a template...`
`23:40.02`	`Hobinheim`	`proficon`
`23:40.49`	`Bagginsww`	`aeleas nad her the website should be WoW only mentality LOL`
`23:41.52`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Policy/Writing/Lore#The_infamous_.27.27Appendix_III.27.27`
`23:42.12`	`Bagginsww`	`Aeleas has fought for removal of citations from RPG material across the topics before`
`23:42.17`	`Bagginsww`	`not juts appendix 3`
`23:42.39`	`Bagginsww`	`he doesn't like language articles much for example`
`23:43.00`	`Bagginsww`	`or the articles dealing with the name of Azeroth`
`23:43.35`	`Adys`	`Who's Itinerant?`
`23:44.09`	`Bagginsww`	`really who would take the time to eave leprechauns across all the articles in the wowwiki?`
`23:44.15`	`Bagginsww`	`*weave`
`23:45.47`	`Zeal`	`lol Bagginsww`
`23:46.11`	`Zeal`	`i'm happy for leprechauns to be weaved where ever, aslong as i see either citation and refrence to MoM#`
`23:46.44`	`Bagginsww`	`LOL`
`23:46.56`	`Zeal`	`he seems to be moving all the closed zone stuff to lore zones.`
`23:46.58`	`Bagginsww`	`I can't wait until blizzard gives us st patric's day LOL`
`23:47.03`	`Zeal`	`doesn't really bother me`
`23:47.04`	`Bagginsww`	`all must wear green or be pinched`
`23:47.10`	`Bagginsww`	`so you do quests to get green clothing`
`23:47.16`	`Zeal`	`he's probably right to do so.`
`23:47.18`	`Bagginsww`	`why?`
`23:47.25`	`Bagginsww`	`lore zone? closed zone?`
`23:47.26`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Yay raining in Teldrassil`
`23:48.11`	`Zeal`	`Azjol'Nerub for example. it was listed under closed zone (in terms of wow ofc). hes created a Lore Zone category and started moving such articles there.`
`23:48.11`	`Bagginsww`	`well lore zone is probably more accurate`
`23:48.20`	`Bagginsww`	`its better that way`
`23:48.28`	`Bagginsww`	`since you can't have something closed if it isn't in game`
`23:48.34`	`Bagginsww`	`hyjal could be a "closed zone"`
`23:48.35`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`23:48.49`	`Bagginsww`	`tell him its a great idea`
`23:49.23`	`Zeal`	`well i haven't looked, so dunno if he bothered to discuss it first, especially with the cat team.`
`23:50.36`	`Bagginsww`	`oh zeal could you link the new misison statement?`
`23:50.57`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Mission statement?`
`23:51.11`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`What I wrote on WoWWiki:About?`
`23:51.13`	`Zeal`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki :p`
`23:51.20`	`Zeal`	`yes Kirkburn\|afk`
`23:51.24`	`Bagginsww`	`ya`
`23:51.24`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`=)`
`23:51.32`	`Hobinheim`	`worst. jewelcrafting. icon. ev4r.`
`23:51.32`	`Bagginsww`	`forgot where it was located`
`23:51.38`	`Hobinheim`	`it's the same as the voidwalker trinket`
`23:51.56`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Added inverted commas around 'canon'`
`23:51.57`	`Bagginsww`	`you know that about info might actually be better on the front page LOL`
`23:51.57`	`Zeal`	`:s`
`23:52.15`	`Bagginsww`	`I think its overlooked`
`23:52.52`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It's in the What is a wiki? bit`
`23:52.55`	`Zeal`	`that section at least, yes.`
`23:53.00`	`Zeal`	`no its not`
`23:53.00`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Actually, an idea`
`23:53.08`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I'll change the title to "What is WoWWiki?"`
`23:53.08`	`Bagginsww`	`I mean the first section`
`23:53.21`	`Bagginsww`	`the part that discusses we aren't MMO centric`
`23:53.25`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`It's linked, I mean, Zeal`
`23:53.29`	`Zeal`	`ah kk`
`23:53.47`	`Bagginsww`	`well I just think that one bit would actually be good ont he front page`
`23:53.51`	`Bagginsww`	`not hte whole article`
`23:53.55`	`Zeal`	`i'd probably drop the "why a wow wiki" bit fro mthe main page tbh.. doesn;t need to be there`
`23:54.18`	`Bagginsww`	`and then have it link to the rest of about`
`23:54.27`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_, I'm getting "WoWWiki has a problem" pages :/`
`23:54.32`	`Hobinheim`	`any rogues in the room?`
`23:54.33`	`Zeal`	`:o`
`23:54.35`	`Bagginsww`	`WoWWiki is a wiki dedicated to cataloguing Blizzard Entertainment's Warcraft Universe (with a focus, though not priority, on World of Warcraft), covering the entire Warcraft series of games, RPG reference books, strategy guides, novels and other sources.`
`23:54.40`	`Bagginsww`	`that's a good sentence`
`23:54.43`	`Bagginsww`	`for the front page`
`23:55.16`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Getting them when I submit an edit`
`23:55.38`	`Bagginsww`	`The mission statement specifies a focus, though not priority, on WoW. To me, that does not conflict with the current lore policy, which specifies, "While this wiki serves as a repository for all Warcraft lore, there is an emphasis on the World of Warcraft game. Information which focuses on aspects of lore which do not match the version presented by the game should be clearly labeled."`
`23:55.38`	`Bagginsww`	`Being NPoV certainly doesn't prohibit providing context for information, just the opposite. As I suggested above, include the information, but let readers know where it is coming from so that they can judge for themselves, and ignore it if they choose to.--Aeleas 18:54, 15 January 2007 (EST)`
`23:55.39`	`Bagginsww`	`Retrieved from "http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Policy/Writing/Lore"`
`23:55.43`	`Bagginsww`	`ouch sorry`
`23:56.12`	`Hobinheim`	`i'm getting weird page loads`
`23:56.17`	`Adys`	`same`
`23:56.24`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Double icons, giant text?`
`23:56.26`	`Hobinheim`	`is someone working on internal rewrites?`
`23:56.29`	`Hobinheim`	`double icons`
`23:56.33`	`Hobinheim`	`but i'm clicking on an image file`
`23:56.36`	`Bagginsww`	`zeal he twisted kurkburn's intent`
`23:56.39`	`Hobinheim`	`and getting a "copy" of the front page`
`23:56.58`	`Bagginsww`	`to try to explain why we shouldn't take othe rsource sif people think they are contraditory`
`23:57.04`	`Hobinheim`	`does riding have a spellbook icon now?`
`23:57.20`	`Adys`	`afaik it only has a Skill line`
`23:57.25`	`Adys`	`"K" key`
`23:57.28`	`Hobinheim`	`also, any rogues in the room?`
`23:57.36`	`Adys`	`yes, behind you, careful`
`23:57.46`	`Adys`	`.. sorry`
`23:57.47`	`Bagginsww`	`but ya kirkburn he twisted your intent`
`23:57.47`	`Hobinheim`	`a d y s, are you a rogue?`
`23:57.54`	`Adys`	`i play one`
`23:58.01`	`Hobinheim`	`what's you rskill called`
`23:58.03`	`Hobinheim`	`"Poisons" ?`
`23:58.08`	`Adys`	`yea`
`23:58.09`	`Hobinheim`	`lol it's called fishes`
`23:58.14`	`Hobinheim`	`poisson?`
`23:58.15`	`Adys`	`...`
`23:58.18`	`Hobinheim`	`GET IT!`
`23:58.21`	`Hobinheim`	`i know french!`
`23:58.22`	`Adys`	`Lol...`
`23:58.37`	`Adys`	`hob`
`23:58.39`	`Adys`	`honestly`
`23:58.43`	`Bagginsww`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Policy/Writing/Lore`
`23:58.47`	`Adys`	`... nevermind`

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