irclog2html for #wowwiki on 20070105

`00:00.51`	`[Zeal]`	`die tbqfh`
`00:01.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`they probably don't have such extensive ruledecisions XD`
`00:01.31`	`[Zeal]`	`i hate seeing coloured item links without []'s`
`00:01.45`	`Gryphen`	`i hate seeing them with heh`
`00:02.09`	`[Zeal]`	`why? it removes the functionality of red links`
`00:02.32`	`Teomyr`	`arial has a strange placement of the []'s, i think, i don't like that. they're a bit too low, compared to those of wow`
`00:02.54`	`[Zeal]`	`font can always be changed given that it would be a template`
`00:03.04`	`Gryphen`	`not sure which ones, but i edited some colorizing templates to stay red if there is no page`
`00:03.17`	`Teomyr`	`well, but mixing fonts looks bad as well :P`
`00:03.28`	`[Zeal]`	`yes Gryphen, i noticed.. that pissed me off �_�`
`00:03.49`	`Gryphen`	`why, so you can click on a purple link and find there was no info there?`
`00:03.53`	`[Zeal]`	`if it doesn't exist, it's no longer an item link, and no longer useful in the context`
`00:04.13`	`[Zeal]`	`why i've made {{quality}}`
`00:04.54`	`Gryphen`	`lots of people get pissed off...`
`00:04.59`	`[Zeal]`	`so it can be used in tooltips, without that. then when doing an item link you can use []'s and acceptable overide default wiki colouring.`
`00:05.18`	`Gryphen`	`hope you dont think all you ideas are the best and implemented...going to be very mad at the nature of a wiki`
`00:05.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`by kirk`
`00:05.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hello kark?`
`00:05.45`	`*** join/#wowwiki Picaburn (n=Kirkburn@user-54472348.wfd84a.dsl.pol.co.uk)`
`00:06.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`pica? XD`
`00:06.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`PICA PICA PICACHu!`
`00:06.19`	`[Zeal]`	`theres only two ever times you need to colour an item link. linking the loot (use [] and doesn't matter if it doesn't exist in the wiki, so can be allowed to overide) and in tooltips (existance should never be checked as it always need to be coloured regardless)`
`00:06.22`	`*** join/#wowwiki kuinkala (n=kuinkala@a81-197-121-141.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`00:06.59`	`[Zeal]`	`i understand a democracy, what people often forget is if you don't agree, you have the right to leave and do it your way. >_>`
`00:07.13`	`Picaburn`	`haha`
`00:07.28`	`Picaburn`	`The internet is a bit unstable here atm, bit odd`
`00:07.40`	`[Zeal]`	`which i've already said in here i would do, lol, and at this rate, intend to do just for a lore wiki.`
`00:09.06`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`lore wiki?`
`00:09.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that would fail`
`00:09.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`miserably`
`00:09.16`	`[Zeal]`	`oh?`
`00:09.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`most of the wiki visits are server related or (lately) qsuest and realm related`
`00:09.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`gah server = realm ofc`
`00:10.08`	`[Zeal]`	`can tell you now most people who really care about lore dislike (mostly hate) wow wiki, myself included.`
`00:10.18`	`[Zeal]`	`well yeah, i don't care about traffic.`
`00:10.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`why you hate it?`
`00:10.26`	`[Zeal]`	`i care about proving a good resource.`
`00:11.01`	`[Zeal]`	`lack of sources and citation, reliablity, false information, assumptions, misconceptions.`
`00:12.16`	`[Zeal]`	`my first contribution to the wiki was to remove all the assumptions about Silithid, Aqir and Qiraji orgins.`
`00:12.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`where would you get it then?`
`00:12.44`	`[Zeal]`	`get what?`
`00:14.54`	`[Zeal]`	`and then i wrote a whole article about why it's an assumption just incase anyone wanted to bitch. >_> something i'm not good at doing, heh.`
`00:15.24`	`*** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`00:15.24`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ`
`00:15.38`	`Kirkburn`	`lol, I was on the wrong connection`
`00:15.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`00:15.45`	`Teomyr`	`wb karkburn`
`00:15.48`	`Kirkburn`	`[Zeal], your comments just really pissed me off`
`00:15.57`	`[Zeal]`	`hm?`
`00:16.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so...`
`00:16.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Kirkburn`
`00:16.04`	`Kirkburn`	`If you have a problem with WoWWiki's lore reliability, tell us where it's wrong`
`00:16.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you are not the same as Picaburn? oO`
`00:16.15`	`[Zeal]`	`Kirkburn, that's what i'm doing`
`00:16.18`	`Kirkburn`	`I am`
`00:16.18`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`00:16.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Well if you said that to Ragestorm of Baggins' face they'd punch you`
`00:16.53`	`Kirkburn`	`What do you think they spend their hours doing?`
`00:16.56`	`Gryphen`	`watch http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Stormreaver_US for edit wars, banned 2 already and warned of bans in their forum`
`00:16.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Lying? Making stuff up?`
`00:17.03`	`[Zeal]`	`why i've applied to the bookkeepers, it's why i've been going through and commenting on talk pages about things etc.`
`00:17.32`	`Kirkburn`	`I cannot see how making a 'lore wiki' would help`
`00:17.36`	`Gryphen`	`ttfn bbl`
`00:17.47`	`Kirkburn`	`It would have exactly the same reliability as the WoWWiki!`
`00:18.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Indeed, commenting is an excellent help :)`
`00:18.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yes Kirkburn I wholeheartilly agree with that!`
`00:20.43`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah, well as you've seen me say before, i feel i'm contributing to a mess atm, i can't do that in good conscience. i wanna see the wiki cleaned up and organized before making changes to the content itself. so that's taken my priority atm. if that's not going to happen, or take so long it's going to becoem harder and harder to do, then i'll do it myself elsewhere.`
`00:22.17`	`[Zeal]`	`as to realibility, i think baggins is doing a good job with citation on all his contributions. ragestorm, i haven't seen do as much (since i've been around), and the bookkeepers in general seems rather dead. Baggins is great, be he can't do it alone : /`
`00:24.09`	`[Zeal]`	`basically, such good practices that Baggins is showing, should have been done from the start. that's why a new wiki would be more reliable, although less content.`
`00:24.55`	`[Zeal]`	`and as someone else broguht up before, you're mroe than welcome to take the content and copy it directly. i wouldn't care.`
`00:25.29`	`[Zeal]`	`as long as people are getting the right info and learning the lore, i'm happy.`
`00:26.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`quit writing so much [Zeal] ><`
`00:26.21`	`[Zeal]`	`rofl`
`00:26.21`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`too much to read`
`00:26.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`TLDR!`
`00:26.32`	`[Zeal]`	`tldr?`
`00:27.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Too Long Didn't Read!`
`00:27.53`	`[Zeal]`	`rofl`
`00:27.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`read more on the forums imo...`
`00:28.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`[[Europe_Forums]]`
`00:28.09`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`go check�`
`00:28.32`	`[Zeal]`	`well yeah.. i'm kinda happy the official forums don't have a lore section, rofl`
`00:28.40`	`[Zeal]`	`official forums are horrible`
`00:28.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/EU_forums`
`00:28.53`	`[Zeal]`	`step up from the steam forums though, lol.`
`00:31.31`	`[Zeal]`	`i got banned on the eu forums for insulting someone apparently. i called someone a moron in the process of helping them with their problem. that was 1 post out of over 150 i made in my first week of posting. i then got flamed for it by soem idiots across multiple unrelated topics, yet did not lower myself to respond. banned the next day. gg useless cm's : /`
`00:31.52`	`[Zeal]`	`temp ban`
`00:31.58`	`[Zeal]`	`think it was like a week`
`00:32.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`lol oO that was steam forums right?`
`00:32.43`	`[Zeal]`	`yet every other post was helpful and informative (yes, people did actually say things to that effect)`
`00:32.46`	`[Zeal]`	`nope`
`00:32.49`	`[Zeal]`	`wow eu forums`
`00:32.59`	`[Zeal]`	`about 2 months ago`
`00:33.15`	`[Zeal]`	`Garlthala if you're interested in looking.`
`00:33.31`	`[Zeal]`	`was mostly in general and hunter forums`
`00:33.50`	`[Zeal]`	`cba to post again after that sigh`
`00:33.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Added some info: http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Subpages`
`00:34.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we really should fix those namespaces and naming conventions`
`00:34.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`seriously`
`00:34.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`no more drooling around`
`00:35.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`make it a 1 day discussion here on IRC`
`00:35.06`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`everyone who wants to join, joins`
`00:35.07`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`00:35.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`in the end we cast a vote`
`00:35.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`on the final rsult (constantly updated by one of the ops on a wiki page)`
`00:35.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and then we implement it`
`00:35.36`	`[Zeal]`	`only if you're willing to read my long messages Patrigan-Syldra ;)`
`00:35.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`at such a moment, I am`
`00:35.50`	`[Zeal]`	`lol kk`
`00:35.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but at least it would get implemented`
`00:36.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it's gettitng more and more important`
`00:36.12`	`[Zeal]`	`yuup`
`00:36.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and if we're willing to attract more viewers`
`00:36.27`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we're gonna have to make sure we have a strict but easy naming convention`
`00:36.33`	`[Zeal]`	`well me being me, i never would have started a wiki until this stuff was already done.`
`00:36.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`any pages who do not follow this convention...`
`00:36.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, I think noone expected the wiki to become what it is now`
`00:37.24`	`[Zeal]`	`hm.. true perhaps`
`00:37.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but either way`
`00:37.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we should do something like that`
`00:37.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and if we pull out a whole day`
`00:37.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and get everyone who wants to speak about it here on mirc`
`00:38.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we cna probably decide more than just namespaces and naming conventions`
`00:38.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I reckon we can settle everything which needs urgent settling`
`00:39.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`imo, doesn't that sound great?`
`00:39.12`	`[Zeal]`	`wiki's grow, fast, and randomly. it needs foundation and framework to support it before it starts, and especially for it grows too big. we're stuck with trying to build framework around what's already there, and having to redo the foundations >_>`
`00:39.25`	`[Zeal]`	`*before it grows`
`00:40.01`	`[Zeal]`	`it sounds better that the current process. which is too slow and clearly not working well.`
`00:40.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`foundations can easily be redone if you have supporting pillars`
`00:40.14`	`[Zeal]`	`indeed`
`00:40.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`in mirc we have up to 5 persons talking`
`00:40.27`	`[Zeal]`	`but we need planning permission first ;)`
`00:40.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's alrdy more than what we have on the pages :p`
`00:41.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, Let's do a voting proposal to do such votes in mirc! (wow that convenient ><)`
`00:41.10`	`[Zeal]`	`haha`
`00:41.33`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nah, but seriously`
`00:41.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Kirkburn`
`00:41.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`wouldn't that be a great idea which would also have a good effect`
`00:42.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`we would ahve to get fandyllic in here though (does he actually ever visit mIRC?)`
`00:42.08`	`[Zeal]`	`and it seems Kirkburn has generally written the sub-pages very close to what my proposal is.`
`00:42.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`or IRC in general`
`00:42.19`	`[Zeal]`	`so i'm fairly pleased with that.`
`00:42.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, fortunately, it's what we already (are supposed to) do!`
`00:42.40`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`oO`
`00:42.41`	`Kirkburn`	`:)`
`00:42.41`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah, supposed to :P`
`00:42.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`what exactly you talking about?`
`00:43.07`	`[Zeal]`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Subpages`
`00:43.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Needs improvement, but it's a start :)`
`00:43.47`	`[Zeal]`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Proposals/Format#Articles :p`
`00:43.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`myeah idd`
`00:44.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but, as said before, such things are kind of hard if you don't have clear rules`
`00:44.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`in general I'm not a big fan of rules`
`00:44.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but concerning naming`
`00:44.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`rules >>>>>>> anything ><`
`00:44.26`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`00:44.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`lack of decent and strict rules on naming are just a gateway for chaos to enter your site`
`00:44.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it creates a lack of order`
`00:45.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I don't care if every page looks different (though equally looking is better :p)`
`00:45.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but naming should be equal`
`00:45.21`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`strictly equal even`
`00:45.39`	`[Zeal]`	`i'm going to be redoing my userspace to try out applying the name naming rules there too. i initially thought it too hard, but seeing how other namespace categories might require more expansion, it's fairly easy.`
`00:46.09`	`[Zeal]`	`i love i can not navigate my userspace ^_^`
`00:46.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`now watchout brought up a nice point`
`00:46.13`	`[Zeal]`	`*now`
`00:46.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`disambiguation can be done within a new Guild: namespace`
`00:46.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Strictly speaking`
`00:46.40`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it would then be:`
`00:46.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Guild:Superguild is the disampage`
`00:47.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and Guild:Superguild (Shattered Hand EU) is the actual guild page`
`00:47.26`	`[Zeal]`	`indeed`
`00:48.04`	`Kirkburn`	`aieee, I don't want to put a policy on everything that moves, y'know`
`00:48.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Wikipedia has that problem, and see how much fun that place is`
`00:48.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but for me it shouldn't be allowed that in the case of no need for disambiguation the player can just throw Guild:Superguild as his page`
`00:48.59`	`[Zeal]`	`i've started to careless if people decide to use (<disambig1>)(<disambig2>)(<disambig3>), (<disambig1>, <disambig2>, <disambig3>), or (<disambig1> <disambig2> <disambig3>)`
`00:49.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because then that player will have to work to move the page to it's destiny realm`
`00:49.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and that's annoying for them (and in many cases they have no clue on how to do it)`
`00:49.46`	`[Zeal]`	`personally i prefer it in the order listed. but w/e`
`00:50.00`	`[Zeal]`	`well i think it should be allowed`
`00:50.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, [Zeal] those are details and aren't very important`
`00:50.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but if you allow it`
`00:50.42`	`[Zeal]`	`as i've said before, who (and how do you) decide(s) when enough disambiguation is enough.`
`00:50.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you're kind of boycotting other players`
`00:50.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well`
`00:51.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`enough is when you reach the limit set by Blizzard`
`00:51.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`which is (luckily enough) 2 disambigs`
`00:51.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`realm and regioncode`
`00:51.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`afail`
`00:51.30`	`[Zeal]`	`and don't give me any example for guilds. the disambiguation rules should work across all articles :P`
`00:51.32`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`there aren't more possible disambigs`
`00:51.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`no`
`00:51.41`	`[Zeal]`	`othereise you're confusing people`
`00:51.49`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well`
`00:51.58`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`let's create a simple disambig then:`
`00:52.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the disambiguation should be done as far as blizzard allow disambiguation`
`00:52.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that means`
`00:52.40`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`items can never be disambiguated (as an item is nearly always unique) with the exception of horde and alliance perhaps on some`
`00:52.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Here's the thing. Most people who make guild pages are new to the wiki. They won't follow policy, therefore this becomes more work for us to do`
`00:53.24`	`[Zeal]`	`for each namespace, i could bring up predictable max disgambiguation, but it's not fair on users to confuse thme by saying "this namespace only allows 2 in so and so order with so and so values, while this namespace does this, and that one soemthing else.. etc"`
`00:53.29`	`Kirkburn`	`For most other pages, policies are broadly followed, but ... not with guild and server pages :(`
`00:54.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`why extra work?`
`00:54.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`pages that don't follow policy => {{SpeedyDelete}}`
`00:54.22`	`[Zeal]`	`it seems as much work as anything else to me.`
`00:54.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's one of the main reasons why I want to do that PR thingy`
`00:54.43`	`[Zeal]`	`wait for someone to fix it up, either a nice user and or rc patrol.`
`00:55.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`to teach them to follow the policy`
`00:55.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it'll alrdy affect a big deal of guilds`
`00:55.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but yeah`
`00:55.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`kind of hard to do that, if you cant' tell them what to do XD`
`00:55.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because I actually don't know myself`
`00:56.56`	`[Zeal]`	`Realms really needs guildlines. i dislike how inconsistant they are and how much biased and irrelevant info there is : / "Famour players" should never exist on a wiki for example >_>`
`00:57.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well...`
`00:57.27`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`depends`
`00:57.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the way I do it on my realm is we vote for a person`
`00:57.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if he gets a fair amount of votes`
`00:57.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`he gets added`
`00:57.52`	`[Zeal]`	`it's still opinion though`
`00:58.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`true and not true`
`00:58.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the first grand marshall`
`00:58.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`he is "famous"`
`00:58.21`	`[Zeal]`	`well that's fine`
`00:58.31`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`(we call it legendary polayers who have done epic deeds)`
`00:58.31`	`[Zeal]`	`i wouldn't put it down as famous`
`00:58.44`	`[Zeal]`	`is an accurate and unbiased achievement.`
`00:58.50`	`[Zeal]`	`*it's`
`00:59.09`	`[Zeal]`	`Achievements sounds like a better header ;)`
`00:59.50`	`Kirkburn`	`This severly needs work: http://www.wowwiki.com/Help:Contents`
`01:00.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Patrigan-Syldra, no pages that don't follow policy =/> {{SpeedyDelete}} it's actually ... => FIX`
`01:00.26`	`[Zeal]`	`soemthing like "World first sapphiron kill - [[Guild:blah]]"`
`01:00.42`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah, agree Kirkburn`
`01:01.03`	`Kirkburn`	`IF fix equal delete, then sure, but the first port of call is to try and fix it :)`
`01:01.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well`
`01:01.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you can't fix guild pages can you?`
`01:01.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Yes, we do it all the time`
`01:01.35`	`[Zeal]`	`sure you can`
`01:01.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`oO`
`01:01.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Adding the categories, templates, moving them`
`01:01.56`	`[Zeal]`	`just hard sifting through crap, i'm sure :P`
`01:02.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`><`
`01:02.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you guys are too good for the wiki users :<`
`01:03.28`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`01:04.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`wha? it's true!`
`01:04.41`	`[Zeal]`	`i've been working on category helpers too btw. amt i've got {{cat/realm}} and {{cat/battlegroup}} basically to peice together the categories just from the basic info. region, language, type, state, name etc.`
`01:05.02`	`[Zeal]`	`but that is following my proposal, so they're just in my sandbox`
`01:06.00`	`[Zeal]`	`less reliance on user knowledge.`
`01:08.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`anyways it's getting late`
`01:08.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`time for me to crawl under!`
`01:08.28`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`gn guys :)`
`01:08.37`	`[Zeal]`	`nn`
`01:14.19`	`Kirkburn`	`Done some tidying, needs more: http://www.wowwiki.com/Help:Contents`
`01:14.55`	`Teomyr`	`uhm`
`01:15.04`	`Teomyr`	`looks broken`
`01:15.17`	`Kirkburn`	`compare :P http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Help:Contents&oldid=365827`
`01:15.20`	`Kirkburn`	`Broken?`
`01:15.44`	`Teomyr`	`yes, in ff2.0`
`01:16.12`	`Teomyr`	`the "Bookmark the editing quickref" thingy shifts the rest of the page to the right ;)`
`01:16.14`	`Kirkburn`	`ah, shall fix`
`01:16.52`	`Teomyr`	`looks nice tho :)`
`01:16.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Done`
`01:17.24`	`Teomyr`	`works :)`
`01:17.29`	`Kirkburn`	`waiit, no idea what the refresh table from subpages is`
`01:17.44`	`Kirkburn`	`There'nvm`
`01:17.45`	`[Zeal]`	`something to do with recaching the templates`
`01:17.49`	`Kirkburn`	`ack`
`01:18.01`	`Kirkburn`	`The links are templates :/`
`01:18.13`	`Kirkburn`	`(well, subpage ones)`
`01:18.23`	`[Zeal]`	`aye`
`01:18.35`	`Kirkburn`	`God knows why, it's just an extra layer of crap`
`01:18.36`	`[Zeal]`	`i never quite understood that`
`01:19.17`	`Teomyr`	`its getting late for me`
`01:19.20`	`Teomyr`	`good night!`
`01:19.28`	`[Zeal]`	`any template that is included in a template directly should be static anyways really.`
`01:19.38`	`[Zeal]`	`nn Teomyr`
`01:20.04`	`[Zeal]`	`and a static template usually implies a template that isn't needed. heh.`
`01:22.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyone noticed if the numbers of summary remarks has gone up?`
`01:23.18`	`Kirkburn`	`See ya Teomyr\|off`
`01:23.31`	`Kirkburn`	`{{screenshot}} doesn't count`
`01:24.49`	`[Zeal]`	`huh?`
`01:25.17`	`[Zeal]`	`more quickpicks?`
`01:25.59`	`Kirkburn`	`[Zeal], on the RC, since I put up the little green note on edits`
`01:26.30`	`Kirkburn`	`"Please add a summary below", it says. I'm hoping it helps :)`
`01:26.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyways, if you want a laugh - look at the code for this page: http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Stormreaver_US`
`01:26.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Note that I just _cleaned it up_`
`01:27.42`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`01:27.46`	`[Zeal]`	`<br>'s :P`
`01:27.51`	`[Zeal]`	`and crapy info`
`01:27.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Tekkub, come here, I wanna make you cry :P`
`01:28.20`	`Kirkburn`	`It's <br> hell, argh`
`01:28.40`	`Kirkburn`	`And what's with all the stupid < >`
`01:28.48`	`[Zeal]`	`indeed`
`01:30.39`	`[Zeal]`	`and no idea if they've increased`
`01:32.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Well I hope so anyway, even if it's just a few more`
`01:32.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Should remind people at least`
`01:32.43`	`[Zeal]`	`tbh.. i prefer to use it as a summary as to why i've made the changes (i know certain people have the opposite view), especially in the case of templates. though i'm now trying to summarize both what and why i've edited.`
`01:33.06`	`[Zeal]`	`if it's minor, i rarely bother with one at all.`
`01:34.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Please try though, it's very helpful :)`
`01:34.33`	`[Zeal]`	`my userspace rarely gets summaries >_>`
`01:34.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh sure, don't care about talk pages`
`01:34.55`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`01:35.20`	`Kirkburn`	`Well it's for discussion anyway, so what would one write? "reponse"? :P`
`01:35.34`	`Kirkburn`	`or even "response" /sigh`
`01:36.20`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`01:37.27`	`[Zeal]`	`i usually put one if it's an inital header (usually the header infact, wish it did this as default). if it's proposal or similar i put "vote yes" "commented" etc.`
`01:38.00`	`[Zeal]`	`usually throw in the the good old "stupid signature.. signed" minor edit too ;)`
`01:41.59`	`Kirkburn`	`:)`
`01:43.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Heh, with that {{screenshot}} template, it's a good thing I filled out http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Image_guidelines recently :P`
`01:44.48`	`[Zeal]`	`through in {{img}} recommendation ;)`
`01:44.51`	`[Zeal]`	`*throw`
`01:45.52`	`[Zeal]`	`i need to add numbered parameters to that tbh.. make it evne easier for generic use.`
`01:47.23`	`[Zeal]`	`hm.. i'm gunna need to test that actually... was hard enough adding thumb-width fallbacks`
`01:49.39`	`Tekkub`	`what now Kirkburn?`
`01:49.48`	`Kirkburn`	`slowcoach :P`
`01:49.58`	`Tekkub`	`was at wally`
`01:50.06`	`Kirkburn`	`Wassat?`
`01:50.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Where's Wally?`
`01:50.17`	`Tekkub`	`wally morld`
`01:50.18`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`01:50.22`	`Tekkub`	`*w`
`01:50.37`	`Kirkburn`	`(sorry, americans won't understand ... = Where's Waldo? :P)`
`01:50.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Wally World? Sounds ... odd`
`01:51.05`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway, I thought you might like the code here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Stormreaver_US`
`01:52.05`	`Tekkub`	`meh, later`
`01:52.07`	`Tekkub`	`anime now`
`01:52.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Ooh, what?`
`01:53.13`	`Tekkub`	`do I have to spell everything out for you today`
`01:53.21`	`Tekkub`	`I just got home from walmart`
`01:53.28`	`Tekkub`	`I'm going to go watch anime now`
`01:53.32`	`Tekkub`	`I hate you Lenny`
`01:54.12`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tazmadness (n=aa@ACD49259.ipt.aol.com)`
`01:54.30`	`*** part/#wowwiki Tazmadness (n=aa@ACD49259.ipt.aol.com)`
`01:55.35`	`[Zeal]`	`O_o`
`01:56.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Tekkub, I wanted to know what anime?, silly :P Enjoy it!`
`01:57.02`	`Tekkub`	`Bleach prolly`
`01:57.04`	`Tekkub`	`maybe .hack`
`01:57.08`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`01:57.13`	`[Zeal]`	`Tekkub, like noir ?`
`01:57.21`	`Tekkub`	`not seen it`
`01:57.24`	`[Zeal]`	`pfft`
`01:57.29`	`[Zeal]`	`it must be seen`
`01:57.37`	`[Zeal]`	`amg?`
`02:01.17`	`[Zeal]`	`{{img\|<image>\|<float>\|<width>\|<hieght>\|<caption>}} basic use. then for more advance configuration {{img\|image=<image>\|float=<float>\|clear=<clear>\|width=<width>\|height=<height>\|margin=<margin>\|padding=<padding>\|border=<border>\|frame=<frame>\|color=<color>\|bgcol=<background color>\|align=<caption alignment>\|caption=<caption>\|thumb=<null or thumb dimensions>}} :p`
`02:01.48`	`Kirkburn`	`\o/`
`02:02.00`	`[Zeal]`	`*frame=<null or frame css>`
`02:06.02`	`[Zeal]`	`beats the pants off [[Image:<name>\|<thumb/frame>\|<float>\|<dimensions>\|<caption>]]`
`02:15.00`	`[Zeal]`	`[[Image:wiki.png\|thumb\|WoWWiki]] becomes {{img\|wiki.png\|thumb=\|caption=WoW Wiki}} though you could do something like {{img\|wiki.png\|300\|300\|WoW Wiki\|right\|color=#EEE\|bgcol=#666\|border=1px #999 outset\|frame=1px #999 outset}} which is my recommended choice :P`
`02:18.25`	`[Zeal]`	`hm.. i could make that {{img\|wiki.png\|WoWWiki\|thumb=}} tbh. makes it shorter than the original :P`
`02:19.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Sounds quite cool`
`02:20.16`	`Kirkburn`	`I forgot we had this: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Unsigned`
`02:20.45`	`[Zeal]`	`lol, yeah`
`02:22.18`	`[Zeal]`	`handy for those who forget`
`02:22.48`	`[Zeal]`	`how do you see where a template is being used?`
`02:23.10`	`*** join/#wowwiki Dalinkade (n=Dalinkad@2492160hfc154.tampabay.res.rr.com)`
`02:23.20`	`[Zeal]`	`like "what links here" but instead, "what includes this"`
`02:23.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Same thinhg`
`02:23.55`	`Kirkburn`	`*thing`
`02:24.17`	`[Zeal]`	`nope`
`02:24.37`	`[Zeal]`	`oh wait it is`
`02:24.40`	`[Zeal]`	`lol fair enough`
`02:24.46`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`02:24.51`	`[Zeal]`	`ty`
`02:24.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Says "inclusion" next to them :P`
`02:25.36`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm off to bed. If you see Baggins on here later, tell him he missed me again ^^`
`02:25.47`	`Kirkburn`	`~seen Baggins`
`02:26.09`	`infobot`	`baggins <n=Baggins@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 21h 28m 36s ago, saying: 'well gnight all'.`
`02:26.09`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`02:26.09`	`[Zeal]`	`kk. nn`
`02:26.10`	`Kirkburn`	`(hmm, he must have used a different name)`
`02:26.15`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh, no, there he is :P`
`02:26.45`	`[Zeal]`	`:p`
`02:26.49`	`Kirkburn`	`heh, g'night`
`02:27.11`	`*** part/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`03:18.51`	`*** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=masked@71.227.151.230)`
`03:18.51`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ`
`04:42.51`	`*** join/#wowwiki Jeinfer (n=canabiz@adsl-76-208-133-64.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net)`
`04:43.02`	`Jeinfer`	`can someone help`
`04:45.02`	`Jeinfer`	`can someone help`
`04:47.06`	`[Zeal]`	`perhaps, what's up?`
`04:47.26`	`*** join/#wowwiki Baggins (n=Baggins@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)`
`04:51.32`	`[Zeal]`	`hey Baggins`
`04:51.40`	`Baggins`	`hhi`
`04:51.48`	`[Zeal]`	`<@Kirkburn> I'm off to bed. If you see Baggins on here later, tell him he missed me again ^^`
`04:51.59`	`[Zeal]`	`:p`
`04:52.00`	`Baggins`	`I see you`
`04:52.21`	`*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-73-61.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`04:53.52`	`Baggins`	`so kirkburn left me a message`
`04:55.41`	`[Zeal]`	`indeed`
`04:56.09`	`Baggins`	`what time does he usually get on? I should have some free time tomorrow. Today I was in San Franscisco`
`04:57.39`	`[Zeal]`	`never payed much attention but about 4pm GMT, leaves about 2am GMT`
`04:58.02`	`Baggins`	`k`
`04:58.19`	`Baggins`	`well I hope adding that tmeline helped you out`
`05:00.19`	`[Zeal]`	`well it's nice, and great work as usual from you. but i really do want to see a compiled one, taking retcons and such into account that can be kept up to date.`
`05:01.17`	`[Zeal]`	`not needing the indepth info that the wow one has`
`05:01.23`	`[Zeal]`	`more like the APG one.`
`05:01.26`	`Baggins`	`Well if you want to move the the one in wow.com, and then touch it up adding in the dates, from APG, and then calling it unofficial timeline thatmight work`
`05:02.13`	`Baggins`	`then revert the wow.com page back to bare bones version on the website`
`05:02.15`	`[Zeal]`	`well you're the one in charge of resolving retcon's, and i've got other priorities on the wiki atm, so i thought it best to run by you for now :P`
`05:02.26`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah, sounds like a plan.`
`05:02.50`	`Baggins`	`but I agree, we should probably leave the bare bones ones as their own websites`
`05:03.07`	`Baggins`	`and have unofficial one that lists every fine detail`
`05:03.48`	`[Zeal]`	`plus there's the whole (new) and (old) idea :P`
`05:03.57`	`Baggins`	`the main reason I haven't bothered to overhaul the old one on the wikii is its so huge, and has mix and mashed info form like 4 different sources.`
`05:04.06`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah`
`05:04.13`	`[Zeal]`	`totally understandable`
`05:04.15`	`Baggins`	`I don't even know where to begin`
`05:04.21`	`[Zeal]`	`hehe`
`05:04.56`	`Baggins`	`someone actually states that warcraft 2 takes place 6 years after first war. Yet I don't think that's been accurate for like three timelines ago`
`05:05.23`	`Baggins`	`last few timelines its always been like 2-3 years after`
`05:05.36`	`[Zeal]`	`lol, well my wc1-2 detaisl are very scetchy, all i know is it did loose a great deal of years`
`05:05.55`	`[Zeal]`	`the main issue with garona >_>`
`05:06.12`	`Baggins`	`ya, about 15 years was dropped from warcraft 1, and quite a few years were dropped between the two games as well.`
`05:06.23`	`[Zeal]`	`have you got RotH yet btw?`
`05:06.29`	`Baggins`	`sadly no`
`05:06.37`	`Baggins`	`I need to pick it up :`
`05:06.50`	`[Zeal]`	`think wow dropped 2 years off wc3 too. something like that.`
`05:07.04`	`Baggins`	`I'm thinking of adding the dates mentioned in Horde Player's Guide into the APG as well.`
`05:07.09`	`[Zeal]`	`ah, got my yesterday. not read it yet though. just finished up LotC`
`05:07.21`	`Baggins`	`since the two are pretty much go hand in hand`
`05:07.40`	`Baggins`	`except for the fact horde's dating styles isn't a true timeline more like approximates`
`05:08.05`	`[Zeal]`	`well it could probably be done in WoW RPG, WoW, WC1, WC2, WC RPG etc if that's the case.`
`05:08.05`	`Baggins`	`Ya, I have to admit I haven't really read the novels. More like skim reading`
`05:08.36`	`Baggins`	`I look for a specific topic I'm interested in and then do a search for the section of the book its located in`
`05:08.48`	`[Zeal]`	`hehe`
`05:09.19`	`Baggins`	`I might get back and read it as a story as soon as I finish the splinter cell book I'm reading`
`05:09.32`	`Baggins`	`well starting with Day of the Dragon I think`
`05:10.28`	`*** join/#wowwiki Peete (n=peete@ip-89-109.evc.net)`
`05:10.43`	`Baggins`	`But ya I've pretty much taken on the duty of soul contributor of RPG material, and not so much other sources, mainly because they are apparently more obscure. The average fan community doesn't know that blizzard has authorized them and released them out there.`
`05:11.49`	`Baggins`	`Chris Metzen is ont he staff of every book, as the creative consultant, as well as adding in material of his own.`
`05:12.59`	`Baggins`	`The fact that people dismiss the books outright, has been a shock to me. Though I admit it shouldn't be, I've run into game-only purists that won't even accept the novels either.`
`05:14.19`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah, agree with everything you just said :P`
`05:14.43`	`[Zeal]`	`i want the rpg stuff.. it just getting round to getting them and how worthwhile doing so would be.`
`05:15.00`	`[Zeal]`	`but my new found interest in runemasters is spuring it on, lol.`
`05:15.56`	`Baggins`	`Heh.`
`05:16.19`	`Baggins`	`Well there is alot of lore. That's the only reason I got them. I'm not a DnD player.`
`05:16.48`	`Baggins`	`good luck on getting certain books though, as some are out of print, and very expensive on the second hand market. Unless you get pdf versions`
`05:17.17`	`Baggins`	`but those are worth it for the short stories included in them`
`05:17.40`	`[Zeal]`	`i was talking about the attitude toward wowwiki concerning lore by lore fans earlier. you got lots of praise for making things better :P`
`05:17.56`	`[Zeal]`	`oh? darn : /`
`05:18.05`	`Baggins`	`ya, I'm happy the majority of people seem pleased.`
`05:18.30`	`[Zeal]`	`well, the majority of people i talk to aren't happy, myself included`
`05:18.37`	`Baggins`	`Ive only run into a few people that repeately try to trash the articles I've contributed to. Theron, angry ogre, and a few others.`
`05:18.59`	`[Zeal]`	`especially from people with influence, like the lorekeepers radio show's hosts`
`05:19.29`	`Baggins`	`Theron has gotten to a point where he's using a warning he got in order to justify trashing my articles... Which was complete opposite point for the warning in the first place :p`
`05:19.40`	`[Zeal]`	`lol`
`05:19.44`	`[Zeal]`	`silly people`
`05:20.13`	`Baggins`	`going to send you a prviate message in a moment`
`05:20.26`	`[Zeal]`	`kk`
`05:21.52`	`Baggins`	`ok sent you some messages`
`05:22.26`	`[Zeal]`	`er.. didn't get them :s`
`05:22.50`	`[Zeal]`	`you need to register on this network in order to pm's :P`
`05:22.57`	`[Zeal]`	`*to use`
`05:23.09`	`Cairenn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:23.12`	`Baggins`	`hmm... I right clicked on your name and clicked on "open dialogue"`
`05:23.29`	`Cairenn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:24.19`	`Baggins`	`so I typed in /msg nickserve register`
`05:25.07`	`Baggins`	`so what is lore radio?`
`05:26.01`	`Baggins`	`zeal can you try to open a private message box to me? maybe it'll work this way.`
`05:28.03`	`[Zeal]`	`http://www.wcradio.com/ Baggins. and you need to register first your name first, identify, and then it will work.`
`05:29.19`	`[Zeal]`	`*-first`
`05:29.26`	`Baggins`	`I'm confused :p`
`05:29.38`	`Baggins`	`can you type an example?`
`05:29.42`	`[Zeal]`	`lol /msg nickserv help`
`05:29.56`	`[Zeal]`	`that'll explain it :P`
`05:29.59`	`Cairenn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:30.13`	`Cairenn`	`and with "password" being whatever you want your password to be`
`05:31.04`	`[Zeal]`	`and fyi, you won't be able to registe Baggin's >_<`
`05:31.09`	`[Zeal]`	`*register`
`05:31.51`	`[Zeal]`	`god, wtf is the timeout of nicks`
`05:32.01`	`Cairenn`	`there isn't one`
`05:32.02`	`Baggins`	`ahh help wouldn't even pop up for :P`
`05:32.06`	`[Zeal]`	`thats fucking retarded : /`
`05:32.24`	`Baggins`	`maybe xchat is messing up for me... I guess I could try mirc`
`05:32.29`	`Cairenn`	`if, however, a name hasn't been used in forever, you can get in touch with a freenode staff member and ask them to release it to you`
`05:32.40`	`[Zeal]`	`yeah, that's silly.`
`05:32.54`	`[Zeal]`	`should jsut be automated. something like a year`
`05:33.06`	`[Zeal]`	`i might do that for Zeal`
`05:33.30`	`Baggins`	`alright in meantime aim?`
`05:33.38`	`Baggins`	`Master Desann`
`05:34.01`	`Baggins`	`and I'll have to add you to the buddy list.`
`05:34.15`	`Baggins`	`otherwise it won't let you see me`
`05:34.24`	`[Zeal]`	`zealvurte`
`05:34.55`	`[Zeal]`	`er.. where would the staff hang out Cairenn? :P`
`05:36.25`	`Cairenn`	`fiddlesticks, I don't remember the command to list which staff are on ... check on the site ... www.freenode.net`
`05:37.18`	`[Zeal]`	`one think i don't like about irc, finding the official channels, lol.`
`05:37.31`	`Cairenn`	`nod`
`05:37.35`	`[Zeal]`	`*thing`
`05:37.37`	`Cairenn`	`there is a #freenode channel`
`05:50.59`	`Zeal`	`woot, done. such helpful staff :P`
`05:53.22`	`Cairenn`	`good :)`
`05:53.46`	`Baggins`	`sure would be nice if I could get aggins :p`
`05:53.51`	`Baggins`	`*baggins`
`05:56.23`	`Zeal`	`register a temp nick, identify, then change to Baggins and just do /msg numist Hi, could you drop Baggins for me please. It has expired and i wish to register it`
`05:56.26`	`Zeal`	`:p`
`05:56.39`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`05:56.44`	`Zeal`	`hey Hobinheim`
`05:56.52`	`Hobinheim`	`yo`
`05:56.58`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`05:57.02`	`Baggins`	`Hey man.`
`05:59.58`	`Zeal`	`Hobinheim can probably hit the banhammer for you :P`
`06:00.17`	`Hobinheim`	`...?`
`06:00.25`	`Baggins`	`lol`
`06:01.05`	`Baggins`	`ahh discussing, theron/fish`
`06:02.11`	`Baggins`	`How, he has been warned, but keeps on repeating the same offense`
`06:02.11`	`Hobinheim`	`....`
`06:02.27`	`Baggins`	`well warned like 5 times or more already`
`06:02.38`	`Hobinheim`	`how do you spell his name, i can't find him on 250 RC`
`06:02.50`	`Baggins`	`Theron the Just`
`06:03.13`	`Hobinheim`	`lots of edit stoday`
`06:03.24`	`Hobinheim`	`beep went {{screenshot}} crazy`
`06:03.43`	`Baggins`	`as for our conversation about Llane Wrynn`
`06:03.47`	`Baggins`	`he was the first and only`
`06:03.51`	`Baggins`	`as far as I can tell`
`06:03.54`	`Hobinheim`	`brb water keep going`
`06:04.18`	`Baggins`	`So you were right the topic being called Llane Wrynn I is a bit undeeded.`
`06:04.54`	`Hobinheim`	`my principle, don't disambig unless there's something to confuse!`
`06:04.55`	`Zeal`	`wansn't it originally King Wrynn, then Wrynn became a family name with Llane`
`06:04.57`	`Zeal`	`?`
`06:05.08`	`Hobinheim`	`do i call myself Hobinheim the Great and Long Titled? No.`
`06:05.14`	`Hobinheim`	`even though you should =)`
`06:05.15`	`Zeal`	`haha`
`06:06.30`	`Hobinheim`	`where was champion of the light linked from`
`06:06.45`	`Baggins`	`Not sure what that is.`
`06:07.15`	`Hobinheim`	`n/m i see`
`06:08.41`	`Hobinheim`	`w/e do you really have beef with this guy? i don't see anything outstanding`
`06:10.12`	`Baggins`	`Its mainly because he's reverted or removed contributions that I've added. Even when I've cited them.`
`06:11.05`	`Baggins`	`Like you saw he just removes and insults, complains, gets haughty etc, in the summary box :p`
`06:11.21`	`Hobinheim`	`i'll let him go a little longer`
`06:11.31`	`Baggins`	`Ya understandable`
`06:11.34`	`Hobinheim`	`he seems to be contributing... so we'll leave it at that`
`06:11.45`	`Hobinheim`	`of course let us know of something becomes a problem`
`06:12.12`	`Baggins`	`right, next time he removes something I'll let you all know`
`06:12.35`	`Baggins`	`probably in here, so he doesn't have a record to continue his hounding by.`
`06:13.19`	`Baggins`	`I have this impression I might be on his watched list.`
`06:13.45`	`Baggins`	`as he seems to go for pages I've added to recently`
`06:14.09`	`Baggins`	`You notice most of his Summery messages are directly aimed at me`
`06:14.13`	`Hobinheim`	`tag my user page, this is an unreliable medium. for me at least`
`06:14.17`	`Hobinheim`	`most of the time i'm at work`
`06:14.41`	`Baggins`	`well If I do it'll bein code terms, I don't want to say theron out loud.`
`06:14.59`	`Baggins`	`Could you check on "you know who" LOL`
`06:16.20`	`Hobinheim`	`"the seal needs judgement" is the passphrase`
`06:16.33`	`Hobinheim`	`or "my cooldown is only thirteen seconds"`
`06:16.45`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`06:16.55`	`Hobinheim`	`say "my hearthstone is bound to kargath and the horde approaches"`
`06:16.56`	`Baggins`	`I like the seal needs judgement`
`06:17.21`	`Baggins`	`heh heh all good`
`06:18.34`	`Baggins`	`yep, no way those will be interpreted by him LOL`
`06:18.39`	`Baggins`	`if he is watching my posts.`
`06:19.10`	`Hobinheim`	`or this chatroom`
`06:19.57`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`06:20.09`	`Baggins`	`they are recorded for later use`
`06:20.17`	`Baggins`	`btw does kirkburn have aim?`
`06:20.30`	`Hobinheim`	`why do you want to bug him`
`06:20.32`	`Hobinheim`	`it's like 5AM`
`06:20.39`	`Baggins`	`I meant for later use`
`06:20.48`	`Hobinheim`	`check his user page`
`06:22.06`	`Baggins`	`nothing listed, I'll have to ask him later`
`06:22.16`	`Baggins`	`How about you :)`
`06:22.37`	`Hobinheim`	`no i don't have aim =)`
`06:22.43`	`Baggins`	`alright`
`06:22.59`	`Hobinheim`	`if i can't be reached on the wiki it means i can't be reached peried`
`06:23.02`	`Hobinheim`	`*period`
`06:23.10`	`Baggins`	`heh heh`
`06:25.45`	`Zeal`	`stupid girc.. the auth list is stored in a var instead of an ini/text file, and it's not even tokenized. so it's not working`
`06:53.30`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
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`08:27.05`	`Baggins`	`For your enjoyment I've just added in the World of Warcraft Official Strategy Guide timeline, so that it can be compared to other timelines`
`08:55.13`	`*** join/#wowwiki Apollozeus (n=neogeo-x@ip51cf1265.direct-adsl.nl)`
`08:55.38`	`Apollozeus`	`Redridge Goulash`
`08:55.44`	`Apollozeus`	`D:`
`08:55.49`	`Apollozeus`	`what about the Westfall Stew?`
`09:15.25`	`*** topic/#wowwiki by Tekkub -> Welcome to WoWWiki IRC! \| http://www.wowwiki.com \| Discuss all wiki issues and report vandalism here! \| Watch me please: http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:RC \| Be Nice™ \| Eat your Redridge Goulash, or you'll never grow as long as a tauren!`
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`09:44.41`	`Apollozeus`	`http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/01/04/death-and-taxes-5-mans-loatheb/`
`09:44.50`	`Apollozeus`	`consider the possibilities this has opened up`
`09:45.20`	`Apollozeus`	`5-manning Kel'Thuzad at level 70?`
`09:46.04`	`*** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.166)`
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`09:56.09`	`dok3Dal`	`We have tried the 5-man-loatheb last night too but with 4 priest like DnT wanted to do originaly and it doesnt worked for us`
`09:56.34`	`dok3Dal`	`priest was interrupted by spore too much`
`09:58.12`	`dok3Dal`	`our priest wasn't enough dps-stuffed keep the tank alive with only 3 VE`
`09:58.54`	`dok3Dal`	`+to`
`09:59.08`	`*** join/#wowwiki Royal (n=m@cp291458-a.landg1.lb.home.nl)`
`10:00.57`	`Apollozeus`	`4 priests?`
`10:01.16`	`Apollozeus`	`a mix of shadow and holy priests?`
`10:01.17`	`dok3Dal`	`yes we tryed with 1 war and 4 shadow priest`
`10:01.21`	`Apollozeus`	`ah`
`10:02.28`	`dok3Dal`	`we have tryed with 3 shadow-priest 1 war and 1 demo but our priest dps was too low to keep the tank alive`
`10:02.45`	`dok3Dal`	`with 4 it worked fine`
`10:03.34`	`dok3Dal`	`but spore interupt on the priest cast = dead tank`
`10:03.44`	`Apollozeus`	`:/`
`10:04.34`	`dok3Dal`	`so we have done : 1 tank, 4 shadow priest for tank healing + 35 dps`
`10:04.51`	`dok3Dal`	`wothout any worldbuff`
`10:04.56`	`dok3Dal`	`without*`
`10:05.47`	`dok3Dal`	`loatheb at 19% at the 5 minute mark... whole raid dead at 5m40 except the group one`
`10:06.16`	`dok3Dal`	`group one lowered loatheb life to 12% before tank death`
`10:06.41`	`Paymon`	`whats the problem u are having on him?`
`10:06.52`	`Apollozeus`	`the lack of people?`
`10:06.53`	`Apollozeus`	`:P`
`10:07.06`	`dok3Dal`	`no ... not this time :p`
`10:07.32`	`dok3Dal`	`we are not extremly well geared ... it was our second loatheb kill only`
`10:07.49`	`Paymon`	`i love the loatheb fight`
`10:08.48`	`dok3Dal`	`the problem was that the 4 priest was not able to handle tank dps-healing and spore pop in the same time`
`10:09.30`	`Paymon`	`ah ok`
`10:10.57`	`*** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.166)`
`10:11.37`	`dok3Dal`	`in fact, too much spore spawned that mass interupt priest cast resulting in tank death`
`10:11.46`	`dok3Dal`	`that was the only problem`
`10:12.43`	`dok3Dal`	`taking care of spore for the priest-tank group for 5 minutes result in absolutely no healing problem on the tank`
`10:14.29`	`dok3Dal`	`maybe a neither-protection warlock will be able to handle it for an unlimited without heal`
`10:14.42`	`dok3Dal`	`alowing an "easy" 6-man-loatheb :p`
`10:15.16`	`*** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@82.101.184.166)`
`10:20.29`	`zeal`	`nn all`
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`12:00.10`	`Teomyr`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:00.10`	`Teomyr`	`<PROTECTED>`
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`12:36.38`	`Kirkburn`	`~seen Baggins`
`12:37.08`	`infobot`	`baggins <n=Baggins@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 4h 10m 3s ago, saying: 'For your enjoyment I've just added in the World of Warcraft Official Strategy Guide timeline, so that it can be compared to other timelines'.`
`12:37.39`	`Teomyr`	`oh, hi karkburn btw :D`
`12:40.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Morning`
`12:40.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins needs to log on earlier, he does :P`
`12:49.08`	`Apollozeus`	`oh, good to see infobot actually serves a purpose`
`12:54.04`	`Apollozeus`	`aaaaaaaahhhhhhh`
`12:54.06`	`Apollozeus`	`the horror`
`12:54.25`	`Apollozeus`	`never google your own nicknames`
`12:55.02`	`Apollozeus`	`http://plussizedate.com/Members/Browse.asp?Handle=Apollozeus&SID=6027A1B7-AC83-4D11-8836-0004498671D7`
`12:55.03`	`Apollozeus`	`:X`
`12:57.27`	`Teomyr`	`lol`
`12:59.07`	`Teomyr`	`what qualifies as datamined images?`
`12:59.10`	`Teomyr`	`wow model viewer?`
`12:59.28`	`Paymon`	`yes`
`12:59.50`	`Teomyr`	`because http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Befemalenewold.jpg appears in the Blood Elves page`
`13:02.08`	`Apollozeus`	`wow`
`13:02.18`	`Apollozeus`	`in that case many images have to go`
`13:03.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Apollozeus, tried a Google image search of your name?`
`13:03.55`	`Apollozeus`	`hahaha`
`13:03.56`	`Apollozeus`	`chairs!`
`13:03.57`	`Kirkburn`	`You seem to be a popular chair ...`
`13:04.08`	`Apollozeus`	`and stools`
`13:04.28`	`Kirkburn`	`In general WoW Model Viewer images are frowned upon`
`13:05.12`	`Kirkburn`	`However, if they're really adding something to the article, I see no problem with them (as long as the model is viewable in-game)`
`13:05.33`	`Apollozeus`	`blizzard seems to have no problem with it`
`13:05.47`	`Kirkburn`	`For the example of those blood elves, you could do something identical in-game, but it's better to use a model viewer`
`13:05.48`	`Apollozeus`	`together with xfire, they hosted machinima contests`
`13:06.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah, true`
`13:06.06`	`Apollozeus`	`several finalists used the wow model viewer and put the program in the credits`
`13:06.19`	`Kirkburn`	`It's more a case of we frown upon it cause in-game shots are better`
`13:06.44`	`Apollozeus`	`k, I agree`
`13:06.44`	`Apollozeus`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Miner_Johnson`
`13:06.51`	`Kirkburn`	`But in no circuststances is unreleased content from model viewer allowed`
`13:06.59`	`Kirkburn`	`*circumstances`
`13:07.12`	`Apollozeus`	`is the model superfluous here?`
`13:08.12`	`Kirkburn`	`It's doing no harm :)`
`13:08.57`	`Kirkburn`	`The main screenshot isn't the best (half turned away from the camera! The cheek! =)`
`13:09.48`	`Apollozeus`	`I guess defias fellas don't really like the media attention`
`13:10.07`	`Apollozeus`	`after all, they've captured the king of stormwind and keep him captured somewhere`
`13:16.16`	`*** join/#wowwiki Patrigan-Syldra (n=iron_pla@108.219-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`13:16.26`	`*** part/#wowwiki Patrigan-Syldra (n=iron_pla@108.219-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
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`13:17.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`gmorning`
`13:18.58`	`Teomyr`	`hi`
`13:22.15`	`Teomyr`	`This item is a reward from the World of Warcraft Trading Card Game UDE points system. The trinket costs 25,000 points or 250 UDE cards. At one card per booster pack the estimated price of the trinket in USD is $2,100.00 if purchased by booster packs.`
`13:22.23`	`Teomyr`	`lmao`
`13:23.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well`
`13:23.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`don't worry`
`13:23.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that is fixed soon`
`13:23.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because UDE is considering additional ways to get UDE points (including random UDE points in booosters witha higher amount of points up to 5000 even)`
`13:24.00`	`Teomyr`	`aah`
`13:24.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I still need to get around to create a UDE point article`
`13:24.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because there's already quite a lot of information concerning it :)`
`13:28.12`	`*** join/#wowwiki spitfire48 (n=spitfire@host86-141-149-245.range86-141.btcentralplus.com)`
`13:31.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Patrigan-Syldra, do it! :P`
`13:40.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yeah, yeah, need to study aswell you know`
`13:40.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`brb`
`13:40.27`	`Apollozeus`	`school is for people with a life`
`13:40.38`	`Apollozeus`	`create the article :P`
`13:43.42`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tepetkhet (n=Tepetkhe@office70.corp.sspan.net)`
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`13:44.39`	`*** join/#wowwiki sfl (n=chuckfro@65.173.2.210)`
`13:46.32`	`Tepetkhet`	`Morning.`
`13:46.46`	`sfl`	`mernin`
`13:46.47`	`Teomyr`	`hi`
`13:48.53`	`Tepetkhet`	`Time to make da coffee...`
`13:56.57`	`*** join/#wowwiki Patrigan (n=iron_pla@71.49-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`14:08.15`	`Apollozeus`	`hmm`
`14:08.43`	`Apollozeus`	`does TBC come with a month's worth of free playing, like the original WoW cd?`
`14:08.53`	`Tepetkhet`	`I doubt it.`
`14:08.57`	`Apollozeus`	`:/`
`14:08.58`	`Apollozeus`	`darn`
`14:09.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`Since it's an expansion, not a standalone.`
`14:11.38`	`equiraptor`	`For the price I'd expect it to.`
`14:11.49`	`equiraptor`	`Because without the free month, it's more expensive than the original game was.`
`14:11.56`	`equiraptor`	`And that would be messed up.`
`14:11.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`Really?`
`14:12.02`	`Tepetkhet`	`I didn't think so.`
`14:12.16`	`equiraptor`	`Well, the original was $50. This is $40, right?`
`14:12.23`	`equiraptor`	`(When new. The original has gone down in price)`
`14:13.18`	`Tepetkhet`	`$42.39 each.`
`14:13.40`	`equiraptor`	`That's not what I paid for the original, and I checked a lot of different places for price comparisons.`
`14:13.40`	`Tepetkhet`	`At Game Stop.`
`14:13.43`	`Tepetkhet`	`No`
`14:13.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`I mean that's the expansion.`
`14:13.52`	`equiraptor`	`ah.`
`14:14.14`	`equiraptor`	`It's $39.99 on Amazon.`
`14:14.26`	`Tepetkhet`	`I'm still kicking myself over not waiting to try to get the special edition.`
`14:14.34`	`Tepetkhet`	`$39.99 + tax and shipping?`
`14:14.43`	`Tepetkhet`	`Or is tax not included and shipping's free?`
`14:14.59`	`equiraptor`	`Dunno about tax, shipping's free.`
`14:15.05`	`equiraptor`	`I didn't order it. My dad did. :)`
`14:15.27`	`equiraptor`	`IS your cost with tax?`
`14:15.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`yeah`
`14:15.36`	`equiraptor`	`With our 8.25% sales tax, it would be 43.289175`
`14:15.43`	`equiraptor`	`But dunno if that applies from Amazon or not.`
`14:15.47`	`Tepetkhet`	`dunno`
`14:15.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`Usually not`
`14:16.02`	`equiraptor`	`Depends on if they have a "retail establishment" in this state.`
`14:16.22`	`equiraptor`	`I have to pay sales tax on all Apple purchases because there's an Apple Store in Texas.`
`14:16.28`	`equiraptor`	`even if it's through the online store. :(`
`14:17.04`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (n=Tuqui-tu@smtp.badertv.com)`
`14:22.33`	`Tepetkhet`	`Ah, I wasn't sure how they worked the online sales tax thing.`
`14:23.24`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`good morning ^_^`
`14:23.29`	`equiraptor`	`Mornin' :)`
`14:23.41`	`equiraptor`	`So far I'm not having a very happy one, but maybe I can make it better.`
`14:23.55`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`oy! Go out a bit!`
`14:24.02`	`equiraptor`	`Umm... That's the problem.`
`14:24.09`	`equiraptor`	`My car's going nuts.`
`14:24.09`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`for 15 minutes or so`
`14:24.13`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`XD`
`14:24.25`	`equiraptor`	`But it's because of all the fancy crap I have on it. :)`
`14:24.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`like fuzzy dice?`
`14:24.36`	`Tepetkhet`	`You and your fancypants car.`
`14:25.23`	`equiraptor`	`Like a supercharger pushing 12psi.`
`14:25.28`	`equiraptor`	`And the clutch to go with it.`
`14:25.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I take the subway ¬.¬`
`14:25.45`	`Tepetkhet`	`Man, I wish I had a subway out here to take.`
`14:25.47`	`equiraptor`	`No subway here. :(`
`14:25.51`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:o`
`14:25.54`	`Tepetkhet`	`As it stands, I'm lucky if I can find a subway to eat at.`
`14:25.56`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`where are you guys`
`14:25.57`	`equiraptor`	`Not even a BUS! Public transport here is lame.`
`14:26.03`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`<---- NYC`
`14:26.05`	`Tepetkhet`	`USA`
`14:26.08`	`equiraptor`	`I'm in Round Rock, TX, which is a city north of Austin.`
`14:26.11`	`Tepetkhet`	`PA, to be exact.`
`14:26.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`yeah`
`14:26.28`	`Tepetkhet`	`Public transpo around here's lame, too.`
`14:26.34`	`Tepetkhet`	`If my car died, I wouldn't be able to get to work.`
`14:26.42`	`equiraptor`	`I live in Austin and work in Round Rock. Central Round Rock is closer to my house than Central Austin. But, that means there's no bus that goes anywhere near where I do.`
`14:26.59`	`equiraptor`	`If my car died, I'd have to start calling coworkers. Lots live in my area and could give me a ride. :)`
`14:27.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`I miss the SF Bay area.`
`14:27.10`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yay for solutions!`
`14:27.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`Excellent public transpo there.`
`14:27.18`	`Tepetkhet`	`co...worker?`
`14:27.26`	`Tepetkhet`	`I'm the only one in the office most of the time.`
`14:27.41`	`Tepetkhet`	`My boss, the owner, he lives close to the office.`
`14:27.46`	`Tepetkhet`	`I commute over an hour each way.`
`14:27.53`	`Tepetkhet`	`So no luck there.`
`14:28.37`	`amro`	`over an hour? that sucks`
`14:28.48`	`amro`	`i cant stand long commutes`
`14:28.53`	`Tepetkhet`	`Me neither.`
`14:28.54`	`Tepetkhet`	`I hate this.`
`14:29.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I say we quit our jobs`
`14:29.43`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and work close to our area`
`14:29.46`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`as farmers`
`14:29.49`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`or cattle ranchers`
`14:30.27`	`Tepetkhet`	`Or WoW players.`
`14:30.36`	`Tepetkhet`	`there we go`
`14:30.37`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:30.45`	`Trae`	`Is there a place where you can grind on L58-L60 dudes that aren't elite somewhere?`
`14:30.46`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`hehe`
`14:31.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`Eastern Plaguelands?`
`14:31.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`Maybe?`
`14:31.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`Winterspring?`
`14:31.20`	`Trae`	`hmm`
`14:31.30`	`Trae`	`most are 55 or so`
`14:31.32`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I have problems taking down a single Daggerspine -.-`
`14:31.33`	`Trae`	`or 57`
`14:31.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`Are you thinking for the expansion?`
`14:31.56`	`Trae`	`I can take down any L60 easy... even at 56 I could. But...`
`14:32.01`	`Trae`	`it's getting harder to find quests`
`14:32.02`	`equiraptor`	`Winterspring has groups of 58-60 mobs.`
`14:32.12`	`Trae`	`and all the guys I run into is eithe rL58+ elite`
`14:32.14`	`Trae`	`or L50`
`14:32.19`	`Trae`	`or L54 or so`
`14:32.19`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:32.20`	`equiraptor`	`Non-elite. There are a whole bunch of kitties in the north.`
`14:32.31`	`Trae`	`winterspring?`
`14:32.34`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah.`
`14:32.36`	`Tepetkhet`	`Most people I know level to 60 in EPL or Winterspring.`
`14:32.41`	`equiraptor`	`Far, far north in winterspring.`
`14:32.41`	`Trae`	`ok.... and in regards to winterspring`
`14:32.42`	`Tepetkhet`	`Yay!!!`
`14:32.46`	`equiraptor`	`EPL does have lots of those, too.`
`14:32.55`	`Trae`	`please don't let anyone tell noobs it's ok to jump off the bridge into that gorge`
`14:32.58`	`equiraptor`	`But they're frequently more heavily farmed because of the argent dawn rep.`
`14:33.02`	`Trae`	`I had this happen to me last night`
`14:33.02`	`Tepetkhet`	`Our favourite priest will be at the raid tonight. :)`
`14:33.10`	`Trae`	`I asked where there were 60's I could kill...`
`14:33.15`	`Trae`	`they said the gorge`
`14:33.20`	`Trae`	`they failed to mention they were elite`
`14:33.24`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`XD`
`14:33.30`	`equiraptor`	`Newbie advice piece 1: Never trust general`
`14:33.30`	`Trae`	`so here I go sailing off into the air`
`14:33.33`	`Trae`	`down down down`
`14:33.41`	`Trae`	`and I see..... elites`
`14:33.43`	`Tepetkhet`	`whee`
`14:33.46`	`Trae`	`I didn't even bother to fight`
`14:33.53`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`you gave up?`
`14:33.53`	`equiraptor`	`Newbie advince piece 2: Don't jump to anywhere you've never been unless you really trust the person telling you to go there.`
`14:33.56`	`equiraptor`	`:-P`
`14:34.00`	`Trae`	`3 Elite 60's on me?`
`14:34.01`	`Trae`	`yes`
`14:34.03`	`Trae`	`I gave up`
`14:34.07`	`Trae`	`L57 Priest`
`14:34.08`	`Trae`	`heh`
`14:34.12`	`equiraptor`	`Ah, yes.`
`14:34.16`	`equiraptor`	`My priest just recently hit 60.`
`14:34.22`	`Trae`	`gratz`
`14:34.28`	`Trae`	`this is my first char`
`14:34.38`	`equiraptor`	`BTW, my boyfriend is a ninja.`
`14:34.46`	`Trae`	`halfway to 58!`
`14:35.01`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`your boyfriend a ninja?`
`14:35.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`they have ninjas in WoW? :o~`
`14:35.16`	`Trae`	`heh`
`14:35.27`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I would shuriken everyone`
`14:35.29`	`equiraptor`	`Ninja as in "stole an item"`
`14:35.30`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and their grandmother`
`14:35.33`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`oh`
`14:35.39`	`equiraptor`	`Not ninja as in rogue, shaman, priest.`
`14:35.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`meh! -.-`
`14:35.46`	`equiraptor`	`Stole it FROM ME!`
`14:35.49`	`equiraptor`	`Bastard.`
`14:36.03`	`Trae`	`Does anyone know when BC will be out?`
`14:36.08`	`equiraptor`	`Jan 16th.`
`14:36.13`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`it went out yesterday`
`14:36.16`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:D`
`14:36.25`	`Trae`	`And do you have to purchase it or can you just like.... pay for an account upgrade?`
`14:36.25`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`wait`
`14:36.33`	`equiraptor`	`You have to purchase it.`
`14:36.37`	`Trae`	`ahh`
`14:36.44`	`equiraptor`	`Unfortunately, Blizzard's software distributer forces them to do that.`
`14:36.52`	`Trae`	`well`
`14:37.07`	`Trae`	`the funny thing is going to be how what they sent out works with the patch that we've been dl'ing at 99%`
`14:37.09`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`they could always go Steam`
`14:37.10`	`Trae`	`heh`
`14:37.16`	`equiraptor`	`It's a real shame. without that contract, life would be a lot easier for people living in an area that their game doesn't match (like, say, soilders shipped overseas).`
`14:47.04`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`equiraptor`
`14:47.11`	`equiraptor`	`Moo?`
`14:47.12`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`why did you kill the conversation?`
`14:47.14`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:D`
`14:47.21`	`equiraptor`	`I didn't mean to! :'(`
`14:47.32`	`jrr`	`steam is definitely interesting`
`14:47.37`	`equiraptor`	`Unfortunately, I'm at work, so sometimes have to disappear.`
`14:47.55`	`jrr`	`it could muscle brick-and-mortar publishers out of business, or at least into submission`
`14:47.58`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`problem with steam`
`14:48.06`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`is that you have to have it open during gameplay`
`14:48.43`	`equiraptor`	`They could just sell keys through their own online store.`
`14:48.50`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`they do 0.o`
`14:48.53`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`dont they?`
`14:48.56`	`equiraptor`	`hell, don't even sell keys.`
`14:48.59`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I downloaded the demo`
`14:49.02`	`equiraptor`	`I don't believe they do in the US.`
`14:49.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`payed for themonthly thing`
`14:49.10`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and got a key`
`14:49.14`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`never had to buy the box`
`14:49.21`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`AND I can download the game anywhere`
`14:49.28`	`equiraptor`	`Hrm. That wasn't possible when I tried it.`
`14:49.30`	`Tepetkhet`	`They finally did that AFTER I bought 3 copies of the box?`
`14:49.30`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`14:49.33`	`equiraptor`	`But that was er... some time about.`
`14:49.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`hehe`
`14:49.38`	`equiraptor`	`s/about/ago/`
`14:49.47`	`equiraptor`	`Dang.`
`14:49.53`	`equiraptor`	`Someone made a corrector for IRC.`
`14:50.04`	`Tepetkhet`	`corrector?`
`14:50.05`	`equiraptor`	`infobot: botsnack`
`14:50.05`	`infobot`	`equiraptor: :)`
`14:50.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`oh`
`14:50.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`hah!`
`14:50.19`	`Tepetkhet`	`Nice!`
`14:50.38`	`Tepetkhet`	`I was gonna say.`
`14:50.39`	`jrr`	`anyone can download the client`
`14:50.50`	`jrr`	`but i was under the impression you can only get the account-activating key from a box`
`14:51.05`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`nope`
`14:51.15`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`you subscribe to the monthly thing`
`14:51.15`	`equiraptor`	`That used to be the case. Apparently it changed.`
`14:51.21`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`AND you get a key`
`14:51.25`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I got mine`
`14:51.34`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and I also got one for my friend in Holland`
`14:51.43`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`he now plays in Gnomeregan with me`
`14:51.49`	`equiraptor`	`However, I'm not sure how the contract with the distributor will work for TBC. It may be that they can only distribute retail copies for the first year, or something lame like that.`
`14:52.04`	`equiraptor`	`Really, the way it is for the original game now is how it should always have been. :)`
`14:52.15`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`idd`
`14:52.21`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`its better for new players`
`14:52.34`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`they try it out`
`14:52.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and immediately they can start playing retial`
`14:52.51`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`without having to gout and buy a box`
`14:53.00`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`which I did by the way... I like having hard copies of my games`
`14:53.08`	`equiraptor`	`Right.`
`14:55.19`	`jrr`	`i stopped caring about my hard copy of wow when it got a few patches old`
`14:55.38`	`jrr`	`now i keep the most recent downloaded client (and the following patches - 2 atm) on my ipod`
`14:57.29`	`Tepetkhet`	`Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:12:51 -0800`
`14:57.39`	`equiraptor`	`Ummmm...`
`14:57.42`	`equiraptor`	`ntpd++`
`14:58.00`	`Tepetkhet`	`That's when I received a response from Blizzard about buying online copies.`
`14:58.10`	`equiraptor`	`Oh, I thought2007. :)`
`14:58.18`	`Tepetkhet`	`"Unfortunately, we do not have`
`14:58.18`	`Tepetkhet`	`plans at this time to offer the sale of authentication keys separate from`
`14:58.18`	`Tepetkhet`	`normal retail packaging."`
`14:58.28`	`Tepetkhet`	`So I guess they changed their minds.`
`14:59.41`	`sfl`	`trae is a turd`
`14:59.46`	`sfl`	`quite simply really`
`14:59.49`	`sfl`	`trae = turd`
`15:00.00`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`¬.¬`
`15:00.02`	`Trae`	`sfl, = that which produces turds`
`15:00.08`	`Trae`	`sfl, Mother?`
`15:00.15`	`sfl`	`i am the grand turd mother`
`15:00.20`	`Trae`	`lol`
`15:00.26`	`Trae`	`Tuqui-tuqui, I can't take him anywhere`
`15:00.36`	`Trae`	`I apologize for my stinky friend`
`15:01.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`is ok`
`15:01.15`	`sfl`	`there's a good guild name: Grand Turd Mothers`
`15:01.16`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`hence the beauty of the intraweb`
`15:01.27`	`Tepetkhet`	`Oh, are you a shaman??`
`15:01.31`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Grand Turd Mothers of Doom sounds a lot better`
`15:01.37`	`Tepetkhet`	`With the orbiting poo shield?`
`15:01.41`	`sfl`	`hmm, maybe so`
`15:01.45`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`wait`
`15:01.47`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`serious question`
`15:01.48`	`Trae`	`lawls`
`15:01.56`	`sfl`	`roflcopters`
`15:01.57`	`jrr`	`i find punny guild names much funnier`
`15:01.57`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`what is that orbiting light around taurens?`
`15:02.06`	`jrr`	`gnomeland security, etc`
`15:02.10`	`sfl`	`it may very well be cow patties`
`15:02.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`Taurens?`
`15:02.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`What class?`
`15:02.19`	`sfl`	`best guild name ever....`
`15:02.24`	`sfl`	`<AF> Makin Sammiches`
`15:02.30`	`sfl`	`afk`
`15:02.35`	`Tepetkhet`	`There's not a racial Tauren shield that I know of.`
`15:02.38`	`sfl`	`<AFK>Makin Sammiches`
`15:02.42`	`jrr`	`the little horizontally orbiting electro ball is the shammy thing`
`15:02.54`	`equiraptor`	`The shaman lightning shield, or whatever it is.`
`15:03.07`	`Tepetkhet`	`there are also orc shaman.`
`15:03.07`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I think its the shamans who have the orbiting light`
`15:03.13`	`Tepetkhet`	`So it's not a Tauren thing.`
`15:03.22`	`sfl`	`then its not cow patty`
`15:03.30`	`equiraptor`	`And troll shaman...`
`15:03.31`	`sfl`	`but why are tauren always scritchin their butt`
`15:03.35`	`sfl`	`that's what i want to know`
`15:03.36`	`equiraptor`	`And, in TBC, draenei shaman. :)`
`15:03.41`	`equiraptor`	`They have bugs.`
`15:03.54`	`equiraptor`	`Feas? Horseflies? Cowflies? Somethin'`
`15:04.00`	`equiraptor`	`Nasty cattle.`
`15:04.04`	`sfl`	`maybe that's it`
`15:04.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`Fleas`
`15:04.26`	`Tepetkhet`	`Tauren female aren't much better.`
`15:04.34`	`Tepetkhet`	`They're CONSTANTLY moving their heads around.`
`15:04.49`	`equiraptor`	`At least they don't scratch their butts in bear/kitty for.`
`15:04.55`	`equiraptor`	`s/for./form./`
`15:04.59`	`equiraptor`	`Go go tauren druids!`
`15:07.07`	`jrr`	`tauren druids should get a cow form`
`15:07.17`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`dont they?`
`15:07.25`	`jrr`	`perhaps a non-humanoid cow`
`15:07.52`	`jrr`	`they could sneak around elwynn and nobody would suspect anything`
`15:08.41`	`Tepetkhet`	`hahaha!`
`15:08.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`Moo...`
`15:09.24`	`Tepetkhet`	`Live Action Cow!`
`15:09.25`	`Tepetkhet`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wooldoorandliveactioncow.jpg`
`15:12.02`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I need a good example of a talent tree for mages`
`15:12.03`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`-.-`
`15:12.19`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`so far Ive added Pyroblast into my arsenal and rapid Fireball`
`15:12.23`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`but thats it -.-`
`15:13.11`	`equiraptor`	`How is that working for leveling?`
`15:13.11`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:o`
`15:13.23`	`equiraptor`	`I have a 47 frost mage and a 34 fire mage, but never tried arcane...`
`15:13.33`	`jrr`	`ppl say i'm crazy and that frost/fire would be easier for levelling`
`15:13.42`	`jrr`	`i get resisted alot by anything more than 3 levels higher than me`
`15:13.42`	`equiraptor`	`Tuqui-tuqui: For what? Solo leveling? On a PvP server or PvE? Grouping much? :)`
`15:13.49`	`equiraptor`	`So do I. :)`
`15:13.57`	`equiraptor`	`But I don't have all the lower resist talents.`
`15:14.05`	`jrr`	`ditto`
`15:14.09`	`equiraptor`	`What worries me is arcane doesn't have the CC I get from both frost and fire.`
`15:14.18`	`jrr`	`i love presence of mind tho`
`15:14.32`	`equiraptor`	`Frost has the added slow and the better Frost Nova, fire gets Impact and Blast wave.`
`15:14.37`	`jrr`	`it doesn't have the cool talents, but there's still frost nova and cone of cold`
`15:14.37`	`equiraptor`	`Arcane... um...???`
`15:14.41`	`equiraptor`	`Added armor?`
`15:15.02`	`equiraptor`	`I just feel so floppy on my mages without something to help with that CC. :/`
`15:15.50`	`equiraptor`	`http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=RZZVoGIofxoVoh That's my current frost build.`
`15:16.14`	`equiraptor`	`http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=kZVgMzf0so And that's my current fire.`
`15:16.49`	`equiraptor`	`On the fire mage, I open with pyroblast, then spam scorch. They get a fire blast once they reach me, and then I scorch more if I need to.`
`15:17.42`	`jrr`	`i usually pull with a frostbolt, missile them while they run, frost nova, more missiles`
`15:17.51`	`equiraptor`	`nod`
`15:17.54`	`jrr`	`if clearcasting procs i like to send a presence of mind fireball`
`15:18.04`	`equiraptor`	`The thing about the fire mage is she generally doesn't have to run back.`
`15:18.11`	`jrr`	`if still not dead, cone of cold and some blasts/explosions`
`15:18.26`	`equiraptor`	`She can endure the beating long enough for the scorch to kill them, especially if impact procs, which it nearly always does.`
`15:19.12`	`equiraptor`	`What's your spec, jrr?`
`15:20.03`	`jrr`	`this is a few levels old http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?2173484`
`15:20.24`	`equiraptor`	`I can't see it there.`
`15:20.29`	`equiraptor`	`Work blocks allakhazam.`
`15:20.42`	`jrr`	`oops`
`15:20.54`	`jrr`	`ours is unrestricted =D`
`15:21.00`	`equiraptor`	`wowhead is open, and I can work around the block with worldofwarcraft.com`
`15:21.01`	`jrr`	`all arcane`
`15:21.08`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I dont use scorch very much because its very weak`
`15:21.10`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah, I'm curious as to which talents.`
`15:21.17`	`equiraptor`	`Did you follow my wowhead links?`
`15:21.18`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`only last night did I reach lvl 28`
`15:21.24`	`equiraptor`	`Tuqui-tuqui: With my spec, it's not weak.`
`15:21.33`	`jrr`	`more mana effecient than fireball, yes?`
`15:21.50`	`equiraptor`	`Yes, the damage is small, but the casting time is short, so you can still get good damage per second (of cast time).`
`15:21.54`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I didnt follow the links :D Ill do it in a bit`
`15:22.31`	`equiraptor`	`And, more casts means impact procs more, which means I take less damage. And it crits more, and it causes fire vulnerability, further increasing mydamage.`
`15:22.37`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`hmm...`
`15:22.42`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`Ill definitely be going fire`
`15:22.54`	`equiraptor`	`So, while untalented, scorch is fairly weak, if you have a scorch-centric build, it becomes very powerful.`
`15:23.03`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I did get the improved fireblast`
`15:23.07`	`jrr`	`equiraptor: i've skipped wand, attunement (dampen/amp magic), and improved mana shield`
`15:23.12`	`equiraptor`	`I didn't.`
`15:23.28`	`equiraptor`	`Hrm...`
`15:23.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I like the idea of a big fireburts inmy arsenal without sweating it to reload`
`15:23.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`im PvE`
`15:23.56`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah, I don't PvP. At all. :)`
`15:24.16`	`jrr`	`i prefer a pvp server but i don't do much battlegrounds`
`15:24.36`	`jrr`	`ironically i leveled my hunter to 59 on a pvp server than transferred to a pve`
`15:24.41`	`jrr`	`most of my other toons are on pve`
`15:25.29`	`Apollozeus`	`I don't see the fun of pvp servers`
`15:25.42`	`Apollozeus`	`getting ganked all the time, not my idea of fun'`
`15:25.46`	`Apollozeus`	`'fun'*`
`15:25.51`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`in PvP you can get attacked without warning, correct?`
`15:26.02`	`equiraptor`	`The fun is getting to gank back, I think.`
`15:26.16`	`equiraptor`	`Only I don't have fun doing that. So...`
`15:26.23`	`equiraptor`	`Basically, yeah, Tuqui-tuqui.`
`15:26.41`	`equiraptor`	`The rules of the server force you to be PvP flagged a lot more of the time than on PvE realms.`
`15:26.44`	`equiraptor`	`A LOT.`
`15:26.53`	`jrr`	`almost all the time`
`15:26.57`	`jrr`	`any contested zone`
`15:26.59`	`jrr`	`any enemy turf`
`15:27.13`	`jrr`	`it adds to the excitement. pve servers seem so.. toothless`
`15:27.13`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah. Any time you're outside of your few "home" areas, basically.`
`15:27.23`	`jrr`	`there's no 'omg horde' (or opposing faction) factor`
`15:27.28`	`equiraptor`	`I don't want my play to be that stressfull!`
`15:27.33`	`Apollozeus`	`same here`
`15:27.35`	`equiraptor`	`I play to relax, not to be paranoid! :)`
`15:27.37`	`jrr`	`i don't want play to be that boring!`
`15:27.48`	`equiraptor`	`It's not boring to me. At least, not most of the time.`
`15:27.53`	`Apollozeus`	`if I want to fight the horde/alliance.. battlegrounds are easy to enter`
`15:28.00`	`equiraptor`	`Paladins are boing on PvE (for me) and rogues are just tedious.`
`15:28.03`	`jrr`	`true`
`15:28.04`	`equiraptor`	`I HATE my rogue. :(`
`15:28.19`	`Tepetkhet`	`aw`
`15:28.22`	`jrr`	`mage i think has the most fun combat`
`15:28.27`	`equiraptor`	`BUUUT, with my paladin, I can play on my destop and use my laptop to chat, browse the web, etc. so... :)`
`15:28.36`	`equiraptor`	`I think warlock has the most fun combat.`
`15:28.57`	`Apollozeus`	`the pet assisted classes are the most fun`
`15:28.57`	`equiraptor`	`dot this, dot that, fear something, dot something else, stand in the field of glitter.`
`15:29.03`	`Apollozeus`	`they force you to watch two characters`
`15:29.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`You can always toggle pvp on.`
`15:29.09`	`equiraptor`	`Pet?`
`15:29.14`	`Apollozeus`	`pet/ summon`
`15:29.17`	`equiraptor`	`Oh, yeah... pet... uh...`
`15:29.39`	`equiraptor`	`I uh... don't make the best use of pets as a drain-tank warlock. :)`
`15:29.54`	`equiraptor`	`If I'm fighting humanoids in groups, I'll have the succy out to seduce one.`
`15:30.12`	`equiraptor`	`If I'm fighting casters / not big groups, I'll have the felhunter help me mange the poor things.`
`15:30.37`	`equiraptor`	`And if I'm fighting jus the random crap, I'll let the succy beat on something. What? I dunno. At that point she's just another DOT to me. :)`
`15:31.22`	`equiraptor`	`I watched a 36 warlock take out a 40 elite a little while ago.`
`15:31.36`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:o`
`15:31.41`	`equiraptor`	`I was on my 60 hunter. I just sat back and watched, ready to come try to save the day if it looked like the 'lock wouldn't make it.`
`15:31.41`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`how did he do it`
`15:31.44`	`equiraptor`	`But he did.`
`15:31.56`	`equiraptor`	`Fears, life tap, and health pots/health stone/bandages`
`15:32.07`	`equiraptor`	`It took everything he had, but he did it.`
`15:32.32`	`equiraptor`	`In the right hands, a warlock is incredibly powerful.`
`15:32.40`	`jrr`	`equiraptor: the mirroring didn't work so well, but my talents are in text about 3/4 down the page: http://files.johnruble.net/mage/wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html (search for 'Arcane Subtlety')`
`15:32.41`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`nice`
`15:32.52`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`do warlocks have higher health than mages?`
`15:33.11`	`equiraptor`	`Pout. You didn't want to just plug them into wowhead? :/ Thank you so much for trying! :)`
`15:33.23`	`equiraptor`	`Tuqui-tuqui: typically. Because of life tap, warlocks try to get more stam.`
`15:33.27`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`15:33.28`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`15:33.49`	`jrr`	`add one to arcane focus, 1 to presence, 1 to arcane mind`
`15:34.10`	`jrr`	`warlocks have that cheesy "use-healer's-mana-instead-of-mine" button`
`15:34.28`	`equiraptor`	`Yup. :)`
`15:34.31`	`jrr`	`(i love it =D)`
`15:36.01`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`meh`
`15:36.06`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`spells are so freaking expensive`
`15:38.32`	`equiraptor`	`Now, the last time I looked at a mage talent tree and thought, I discovered scorch.`
`15:38.47`	`equiraptor`	`That was a kinda nice discovery.`
`15:40.39`	`equiraptor`	`Isn't arcane missiles kinda mana expensive when compared with, say, frostbolt or scorch? Or does it really do that much more dmage?`
`15:40.44`	`equiraptor`	`er, damage.`
`15:41.34`	`jrr`	`idunno`
`15:41.51`	`equiraptor`	`Hrm. I think I have some math to do, too, but that can come a bit later.`
`15:42.04`	`jrr`	`it's kind of nice to be uninterruptable, though a mage shouldn't be getting whacked anyway`
`15:42.31`	`jrr`	`and the multiple projectiles gives more crit/non-resist opportunity (though the crits are weaker)`
`15:42.41`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`you also have to do Gnomeregan?`
`15:43.16`	`jrr`	`and more frequent hits further antagonize casters than slower more powerful spells`
`15:43.30`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I like my frost armor`
`15:43.44`	`*** join/#wowwiki amro_ (n=amro@82.101.184.166)`
`15:44.01`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah.`
`15:44.01`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`it slows down attacks`
`15:44.11`	`Hobinheim`	`warlock's also get imp tap`
`15:44.17`	`Hobinheim`	`and dark pact`
`15:44.20`	`Hobinheim`	`and demonic sacrifice`
`15:44.23`	`equiraptor`	`Actually, with the improved counterspell, I took points out of Magic Absorption.`
`15:44.24`	`Hobinheim`	`endless mana =)`
`15:44.48`	`equiraptor`	`Based on the way I play against casters, I wouldn't have much chance to resist their spells, because they'll be silenced or dead.`
`15:44.49`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I need to see how the heck im going to resist spells >:{`
`15:44.59`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`the only one I have is shadow resistance its poor ¬.¬`
`15:45.00`	`equiraptor`	`But, that's without PvP.`
`15:45.17`	`equiraptor`	`Meh, don't worry about that much until level 60, Tuqui-tuqui, unless you plan to PvP a lot.`
`15:45.22`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`:o`
`15:45.24`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`schweet :D`
`15:45.27`	`equiraptor`	`Non-60 caster mobs aren't really strong enough to be worth getting resists for.`
`15:46.32`	`equiraptor`	`Once you hit 60, you'll want to build sets. My hunter has her DPS (or normal) set, her FR (fire resist) set, her NR (nature) set, her partial NR set (Which still lets her do some damage), and was working on a frost resist set when the guild died.`
`15:46.38`	`jrr`	`i'm hesitant to spend limited resources (talents, enchants on non-resist-specific gear) on any one resistance`
`15:46.45`	`jrr`	`+all resistances i feel better about`
`15:46.48`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah.`
`15:46.50`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/images/7/77/SorcerersRegalia.JPG`
`15:46.55`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`thats once cool armor set :D`
`15:47.02`	`equiraptor`	`I don't even bother with +all resistances.`
`15:47.19`	`equiraptor`	`In my standard sets (for all my characers) my resists are horrible.`
`15:47.30`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I dont have any resists at all XD`
`15:47.35`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`wait`
`15:47.38`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I have shadow`
`15:47.39`	`equiraptor`	`But, my hunter, with her Aspect of the Wild, has max possible resist for a 60.`
`15:47.43`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and I dont even know how I got that`
`15:47.51`	`equiraptor`	`(er, max possible nature resist, in her NR set)`
`15:48.03`	`equiraptor`	`Tuqui-tuqui: What race are you? It may be a racial talent.`
`15:48.14`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I did have a ring that gave me nature resistant but I sold it :\|`
`15:48.16`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`im undead`
`15:48.29`	`equiraptor`	`I think that may be why.`
`15:48.30`	`jrr`	`brains...`
`15:48.44`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I am one sexy undead lady mage though`
`15:48.56`	`jrr`	`sexy kneebones`
`15:48.59`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`idd`
`15:49.03`	`jrr`	`lower jaw?`
`15:49.09`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and my robes really bring out my bony butt`
`15:49.15`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yes I have lower jaw -.-`
`15:49.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`hahaha`
`15:49.34`	`Tepetkhet`	`Wear a dress`
`15:49.38`	`Tepetkhet`	`It covers the knees.`
`15:49.45`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`yes my robe :D`
`15:49.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`Unfortunately, my rogue's knee bones wear through all her pants.`
`15:51.55`	`Patrigan`	`undead have +10 shadow res as a racial`
`15:52.28`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`ohhhhhh`
`15:52.31`	`Tepetkhet`	`yup`
`15:52.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`I have an undead rogue.`
`15:52.52`	`Tepetkhet`	`We're doing Molten Core right now.`
`15:52.57`	`Tepetkhet`	`So I'm working on fire resist.`
`15:53.01`	`Patrigan`	`I had an undead warlock`
`15:53.03`	`Tepetkhet`	`I have 175 unbuffed FR.`
`15:53.07`	`Patrigan`	`but I rerolled nelf droodle now ^^`
`15:53.09`	`jrr`	`you need a goron tunic`
`15:53.16`	`Tepetkhet`	`A what?`
`15:53.20`	`jrr`	`zelda =]`
`15:53.24`	`Tepetkhet`	`oh`
`15:53.58`	`Patrigan`	`http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.wowwiki.com steadily rising now`
`15:54.05`	`Patrigan`	`let's hope it stays this way`
`15:55.06`	`Patrigan`	`Tell more people about it`
`15:55.16`	`Patrigan`	`gah we need to geet ourselves into the Blizzard fansite network`
`15:55.25`	`Patrigan`	`and get ourselves allowed to do contests`
`15:57.59`	`Patrigan`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Malorne_Harness what's up with pink met sockets? oO`
`15:59.24`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`16:02.46`	`Apollozeus`	`oh yes`
`16:02.55`	`Apollozeus`	`WOW Stratics was recently inducted as well`
`16:03.11`	`Apollozeus`	`I'd be in favour of joining the fansite network ranks as well :D`
`16:06.06`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I should be a able to sell mana stones -.-`
`16:06.44`	`Patrigan`	`Well, it would allow us to do contests like Gurky`
`16:07.13`	`Patrigan`	`with that, we can attract the big masses`
`16:07.53`	`Patrigan`	`"the best guild or user pages win a Gurky (or whatever we can hand out) Remember to follow the policy!"`
`16:08.04`	`Patrigan`	`that way, players will get to learn the policy`
`16:08.14`	`Apollozeus`	`and we'll finally get some decent guild pages`
`16:08.15`	`Patrigan`	`though...`
`16:08.15`	`Apollozeus`	`:P`
`16:08.29`	`Patrigan`	`we need anews page for that XD`
`16:08.37`	`Apollozeus`	`I was thinking the same thing`
`16:08.39`	`Patrigan`	`that's actually the one thing I lack most`
`16:08.48`	`Patrigan`	`a decent newspage with big additions`
`16:08.51`	`Apollozeus`	`another main page redesign`
`16:08.54`	`Apollozeus`	`>_>`
`16:09.03`	`Patrigan`	`well...`
`16:09.08`	`Patrigan`	`tbh, it would be better ^^`
`16:09.40`	`jrr`	`something like the front page of wikipedia or guildwiki.org`
`16:10.07`	`jrr`	`patch notes, mbe recent blue from the forums`
`16:10.41`	`Apollozeus`	`kirkburn and fandyllic are really keen on keeping those links`
`16:10.57`	`Apollozeus`	`on top of the page, as well`
`16:11.37`	`Patrigan`	`Well I agree with them`
`16:12.13`	`Patrigan`	`though the red box isn't necessary on the Main Pageand the purple one (help) can be worked into the main box`
`16:12.48`	`Patrigan`	`and if we then redesign it so that it takes half the page (rifgt side) we can implement a news page on the left side.`
`16:13.03`	`Patrigan`	`also, I would like to rename Policy to rules...`
`16:13.10`	`Patrigan`	`or a more known word`
`16:13.16`	`Patrigan`	`policy ndoesn't sound like a must`
`16:13.22`	`Apollozeus`	`policy is a wellknown word`
`16:13.31`	`Apollozeus`	`I think it's fine`
`16:14.11`	`jrr`	`i think policy fits better when applied to specific conventions (naming policy, category policy)`
`16:14.29`	`jrr`	`rules could apply to regulatory things like what it takes to get banned`
`16:14.38`	`Patrigan`	`hmmm perhaps`
`16:14.42`	`Patrigan`	`though that's not as important`
`16:14.48`	`Patrigan`	`but a small news page`
`16:14.58`	`jrr`	`yeah`
`16:15.10`	`Apollozeus`	`like the three revert rule`
`16:15.10`	`Patrigan`	`which maybe also shows the 5 (or 3) last edited pages`
`16:16.31`	`Patrigan`	`either way, I'm back to studying :)`
`16:16.38`	`Patrigan`	`so see ya later`
`16:16.42`	`jrr`	`studying what?`
`16:18.12`	`Patrigan`	`<`
`16:18.17`	`Patrigan`	`Mechanics atm :<`
`16:18.26`	`Patrigan`	`and it sux :<`
`16:18.29`	`jrr`	`=\`
`16:18.30`	`Patrigan`	`so brb`
`16:18.36`	`jrr`	`sounds somewhat interesting to me`
`16:18.39`	`jrr`	`have fun`
`16:19.39`	`*** join/#wowwiki Murleccone (n=Murloc@195.190.172.65)`
`16:20.00`	`Murloc`	`hi`
`16:20.03`	`jrr`	`howdy`
`16:20.11`	`Murloc`	`how are you?`
`16:20.13`	`jrr`	`how could we phoneticize the sound a murloc makes?`
`16:20.15`	`jrr`	`super great. you?`
`16:20.20`	`jrr`	`mghghghghghg`
`16:20.23`	`Murloc`	`good`
`16:20.34`	`Murloc`	`a murloc`
`16:20.36`	`Murloc`	`mmmh`
`16:20.45`	`Murloc`	`grauhuhahua`
`16:21.06`	`Murloc`	`search in google`
`16:21.09`	`Murloc`	`murloc rpg`
`16:21.20`	`Murloc`	`and a site`
`16:21.27`	`Murloc`	`has a game like WoW`
`16:21.46`	`Murloc`	`but you play online without players and you are a murloc`
`16:21.49`	`Murloc`	`in that game`
`16:22.01`	`Murloc`	`your murloc when speak do some sounds`
`16:22.02`	`Trae`	`Is this Leeroy Jenkins in disquise?`
`16:22.05`	`Trae`	`heh`
`16:22.12`	`Murloc`	`who is leeroy jenkins?`
`16:22.49`	`Tepetkhet`	`Grmblorglrglrglrglrglrglrg!`
`16:23.03`	`Trae`	`You do know, you can type a whole sentence, without having to hit enter every two seconds?`
`16:23.19`	`Murloc`	`sorry`
`16:23.22`	`Trae`	`lol`
`16:23.32`	`Trae`	`np I do the same thing.`
`16:23.34`	`Trae`	`:)`
`16:23.38`	`jrr`	`i frequently hit enter at each inter-thought pause`
`16:23.52`	`jrr`	`or instead of ","`
`16:24.07`	`Murloc`	`now i write all on one sentences, yes me too. Goodbye`
`16:24.10`	`Trae`	`Is there a map somewhere that lists the different characters?`
`16:24.21`	`Murloc`	`what charachers?`
`16:24.25`	`Trae`	`lhmm`
`16:24.29`	`Murloc`	`the people speaking here?`
`16:24.39`	`Trae`	`like someone said there were high level cats in north Winterspring`
`16:25.02`	`Tepetkhet`	`I usually type in complete sentences. However, I have a friend on IM who gets very impatient when he sees that I'm typing something and he can't see what it is. So while I'm typing in a complete sentence, he's sending line after line of, "What are you typing?" "Spit it out!" "Oh god...can't wait..." "Well?" "Come on!" "I'm waiting!"`
`16:25.03`	`Trae`	`Are there maps that show the monsters on the screen. I've seen some that list say herbs`
`16:25.15`	`jrr`	`Tepetkhet: lol`
`16:25.16`	`Trae`	`Tepetkhet, haha`
`16:25.19`	`Murloc`	`yeah`
`16:25.20`	`jrr`	`i think those things, but don't type them`
`16:25.25`	`Murloc`	`thottbot.com`
`16:25.31`	`Trae`	`Murloc, kk`
`16:25.50`	`Murloc`	`goodbye i go away`
`16:26.02`	`Murloc`	`WoW servers in EU are down`
`16:26.15`	`Murloc`	`now im in a astinence crisis`
`16:26.27`	`Murloc`	`or how do you say that in english`
`16:26.30`	`Murloc`	`good bye`
`16:26.47`	`Trae`	`heh`
`16:26.52`	`Trae`	`all your wow are belong to us`
`16:27.34`	`*** join/#wowwiki Paymon (n=chatzill@88-109-97-146.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`16:46.32`	`Trae`	`http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=7434`
`16:46.43`	`Trae`	`Does wowwiki have something like that?`
`16:47.21`	`Trae`	`http://www.wowhead.com/?zone=618#00sMz <-- this actually`
`16:48.10`	`jrr`	`a list of mobs for each zone?`
`16:48.50`	`Trae`	`hmmm I reckon`
`16:49.02`	`Trae`	`I was needing L58-L60 dudes... (NON-ELITE!) heh`
`16:49.15`	`Trae`	`that seems like a good place for them.`
`17:00.55`	`*** join/#wowwiki Baggins (n=Baggins@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)`
`17:01.15`	`*** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`17:01.15`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ`
`17:01.32`	`*** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-144-22.w90-30.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`17:01.32`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ`
`17:02.02`	`Apollozeus`	`mm`
`17:02.09`	`Apollozeus`	`this channel is getting crowded :)`
`17:02.17`	`Apollozeus`	`almost 30 people here already`
`17:02.24`	`Adys`	`thats good aint it :)`
`17:02.42`	`Kirkburn`	`yay!`
`17:02.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Weird, Adys, you and me keep joining at the same time :P`
`17:03.06`	`Adys`	`yeah i know its miranda`
`17:03.13`	`Adys`	`I got a dong when "Kirkburn comes online"`
`17:03.17`	`Adys`	`and it reminds me to join`
`17:03.22`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`17:03.32`	`Apollozeus`	`make it join automatically :P`
`17:03.46`	`Baggins`	`Hi`
`17:03.52`	`Baggins`	`kirk do you have aim?`
`17:03.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Nope`
`17:04.07`	`Adys`	`yeah i know apollo but i have no idea how the f Id do that :P`
`17:04.19`	`Baggins`	`You should or at least windows messenger`
`17:04.41`	`Adys`	`Baggins, get miranda!`
`17:04.44`	`Apollozeus`	`google.com adys`
`17:04.45`	`Apollozeus`	`:P`
`17:04.47`	`Adys`	`www.miranda-im.com`
`17:05.10`	`Kirkburn`	`I do have Live Messenger, but don't log in much`
`17:05.19`	`Baggins`	`ahh`
`17:05.50`	`Baggins`	`how many messengers are there LOL.`
`17:06.25`	`Apollozeus`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Rag_owned.jpg`
`17:06.29`	`Apollozeus`	`XD`
`17:07.45`	`Baggins`	`So ya the conversation this week Kirburn was over the issue of a certain individual you know of that seems to always attack and remove material I add to pages, especially pages dealing with characters from Warcraft II`
`17:08.45`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`17:08.45`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`17:08.54`	`Baggins`	`Hey hobin`
`17:09.03`	`Hobinheim`	`hiyo`
`17:09.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway IRC > all =)`
`17:09.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, I thought it was :P`
`17:09.34`	`Baggins`	`Ya, so several admins have noticed it, and are going to be watching him.`
`17:09.35`	`Kirkburn`	`Hullo Hobinheim`
`17:10.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Some people are so obviously horde or alliance biased`
`17:10.34`	`Kirkburn`	`I find it so odd :/`
`17:10.37`	`Baggins`	`or RTS biased`
`17:10.45`	`Kirkburn`	`That too!`
`17:10.51`	`Baggins`	`if it doesnt come form the RTS its wrong`
`17:10.57`	`Baggins`	`blah blah`
`17:10.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Or weirdly biased against the books :/`
`17:11.02`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`17:11.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Btw, absolutely great job you've been doing on the citing`
`17:11.18`	`Baggins`	`thank you`
`17:11.29`	`Baggins`	`and thanks to ever added in that easy citation system`
`17:11.35`	`Baggins`	`*who`
`17:12.40`	`Baggins`	`So my newest addition to Wowwik is the timeline from official Wow strategy guide`
`17:12.41`	`Hobinheim`	`what citations`
`17:12.50`	`Hobinheim`	`link plz`
`17:12.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Hmm, there's more citation stuff than I thought`
`17:12.53`	`Baggins`	`the book and page number system`
`17:12.58`	`Kirkburn`	`People should use {{cite\|WoW}} more`
`17:13.08`	`Kirkburn`	`WoWWiki:Citation`
`17:13.13`	`Kirkburn`	`(http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Citation)`
`17:13.21`	`Hobinheim`	`oh yeah`
`17:13.25`	`Hobinheim`	`but that's only for book sources`
`17:13.35`	`Hobinheim`	`i made some ref stuff for like... non-book stuff`
`17:13.41`	`Baggins`	`I decided to post the OSG timeline as is, as it has a few um oddities`
`17:13.51`	`Baggins`	`it says that Orgrim killed Gul'dan for example`
`17:13.51`	`Hobinheim`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Hobinheim/footnotes`
`17:14.18`	`Kirkburn`	`I've got an idea`
`17:14.18`	`Kirkburn`	`I think I might add a little tips box to the edit page`
`17:14.18`	`Hobinheim`	`poor example, but in the wild http://www.wowwiki.com/Inferno`
`17:14.40`	`Hobinheim`	`so i would recommend references in any case where the information doesn't come from a prelisted warcraft book`
`17:14.44`	`Kirkburn`	`What stuff should be said on the edit page? "Cite your sources"`
`17:14.46`	`Hobinheim`	`like... quest text or something`
`17:14.59`	`Baggins`	`ya I have a few things like that i the Citation page`
`17:14.59`	`Hobinheim`	`{{ref\|Cutting Teeth quest text}}`
`17:15.12`	`Baggins`	`{{Cite\|WoW\|}}`
`17:15.17`	`Hobinheim`	`=(`
`17:15.19`	`Baggins`	`is citation for things from WoW`
`17:15.23`	`Hobinheim`	`but there are no page numbers in wow`
`17:15.33`	`Baggins`	`ya thus why you have to leave the \|`
`17:15.40`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah use the 3rd bit to cite where in WoW?`
`17:15.47`	`Baggins`	`course you could link hte quest at the end`
`17:16.01`	`Baggins`	`only problem is non quest related lore`
`17:16.32`	`Hobinheim`	`the only lore i contribute is stuff inferred from quest text`
`17:16.36`	`Hobinheim`	`like this NPC is grumpy mc grumperson`
`17:16.48`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`17:17.49`	`Hobinheim`	`alls i'm sayin is... i want my refs stuff to get some love. where citations wouldn't work. =P`
`17:18.00`	`Baggins`	`merge it into that page?`
`17:18.20`	`Baggins`	`I'll switch to your system if it's easier to use`
`17:18.31`	`Hobinheim`	`it's not easier. it's just an alternative when the source isn't a book`
`17:18.49`	`Hobinheim`	`like i personally wouldn't accept "WoW" as a citation source because the origins are too vast`
`17:19.02`	`Hobinheim`	`hence, i would link it to a numbered ref, and mention the ref at the bottom`
`17:19.06`	`Hobinheim`	`like on my footnotes example page`
`17:19.12`	`Hobinheim`	`you can look at the code and see how not easy it is`
`17:19.25`	`Hobinheim`	`i mean, compared to wikipedia (who has a plugin installed)`
`17:19.32`	`Baggins`	`ahh`
`17:19.39`	`Baggins`	`we need a plugin ;)`
`17:19.55`	`Hobinheim`	`i dunno, i think it's the best i could do given no plugin at all`
`17:20.02`	`Baggins`	`if we expect people to use the system it needs to be easy for boneheads`
`17:20.28`	`Hobinheim`	`cite, to me, exists when there is a book to backup the material`
`17:20.42`	`Hobinheim`	`but some things can come from not books like forums, blizzard website, promo material, objects, fan sites`
`17:20.54`	`Hobinheim`	`where i feel ref would be appropriate`
`17:21.00`	`Baggins`	`I just put in [link] for websites`
`17:21.12`	`Baggins`	`easiest way for that kind of thing`
`17:21.22`	`Hobinheim`	`i think that looks ugly =P`
`17:21.41`	`Hobinheim`	`i've always hated the look of an external link that's not under see also`
`17:22.06`	`Baggins`	`oh btw, I'm an aquentance of Blizzplanet. He isn't too happy with the direct rips of text from his site, and he says alot of it is his speculation, he would never consider it "official"`
`17:22.16`	`Baggins`	`*the author of blizzplanet`
`17:22.29`	`Hobinheim`	`what's that in reference to`
`17:22.32`	`Hobinheim`	`news to me...`
`17:22.44`	`Baggins`	`I think fandyllic often directly pulls quotes off his site`
`17:22.50`	`Hobinheim`	`link?`
`17:22.57`	`Baggins`	`let me find one example`
`17:23.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, that's fair`
`17:23.08`	`Hobinheim`	`if fandy links and quotes his posts, i can't say i have anything against that`
`17:23.16`	`Kirkburn`	`His site is excellent, I must say`
`17:23.19`	`Hobinheim`	`like, if they're properly attributed, then oh well`
`17:23.44`	`Baggins`	`well his biggest issue is that he has been taking all of the material off the site`
`17:23.59`	`Kirkburn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:24.12`	`Adys`	`which site?`
`17:24.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, what do you mean?`
`17:24.20`	`Baggins`	`www.blizzplanet.com`
`17:24.33`	`Baggins`	`I'll show you as soon as I find a page example`
`17:26.05`	`Baggins`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Hamuul_Runetotem`
`17:26.09`	`Baggins`	`there is a good example`
`17:26.40`	`Hobinheim`	`ehh that's sketchy`
`17:26.57`	`Hobinheim`	`what that should be is integrated quotes, properly marked and cited`
`17:27.01`	`Hobinheim`	`not a whole block quote`
`17:27.08`	`Baggins`	`well first off I would have probably cited a first hand account such as the manual for WoW`
`17:27.13`	`Hobinheim`	`it's not illustrating anything new about the NPC that we couldn't write and merge ourselves`
`17:27.45`	`Hobinheim`	`btw who's propagating the raceboxes`
`17:27.50`	`Baggins`	`that too. and MedievalDragon warns that some of the articles have his own theories merged into them`
`17:27.51`	`Hobinheim`	`baggins, are you on that?`
`17:27.58`	`Baggins`	`so aren't very credible`
`17:28.03`	`Baggins`	`on what?`
`17:28.07`	`Baggins`	`on the website?`
`17:28.08`	`Hobinheim`	`race boxes`
`17:28.28`	`Baggins`	`I don't know who made the race and character boxes I've used them from time to time though`
`17:28.32`	`Hobinheim`	`i made an npcbox template, and i was just thinking about how racebox and npcbox interact with one another`
`17:28.58`	`Hobinheim`	`like... from my perspective, hte npcbox would be used for lesser npcs no one cares about and then racebox for the really big npcs like thrall and cairne and whatever`
`17:29.10`	`Kirkburn`	`I removed the silly "spelling shaky" comment. Not appropriate.`
`17:29.12`	`Hobinheim`	`i was going to make a bot that would patroll all the npc pages to check that either one of the npcbox or racebox are used`
`17:29.30`	`Hobinheim`	`if spelling is shaky, you use the word [sic] after the speling mistake`
`17:29.35`	`Kirkburn`	`Exactly`
`17:29.37`	`Hobinheim`	`that's in english-us style at least`
`17:29.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Same everywhere afaik`
`17:29.53`	`Baggins`	`belief so`
`17:30.05`	`Hobinheim`	`oh well. my main point is that the guards of bloodvenom post don't need a fancy racebox, where an npcbox will do`
`17:30.09`	`Kirkburn`	`But you don't comment on someone's ability to spell in an article :P`
`17:30.17`	`Hobinheim`	`yeah, haha`
`17:30.22`	`Baggins`	`ya that's neutrality thing`
`17:30.47`	`Hobinheim`	`npcbox is more of the datamined attributes about a physical mob, akin to the questbox. very mechanical`
`17:31.19`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, if you speak to MedievalDragon, tell him to keep up the great work, and that I (we) shall try and make sure he is properly credited`
`17:31.33`	`Baggins`	`K.`
`17:31.38`	`Hobinheim`	`or credited in a more clear fashion with less emphasis on direct block copies`
`17:31.44`	`Hobinheim`	`in favor of segments and inline citations`
`17:31.55`	`Baggins`	`Ya if we use his stuff we need to paraphrase a bit more`
`17:31.57`	`Kirkburn`	`I know the wiki can sometimes be viewed as 'stealing' people's work, and I don't want that`
`17:32.13`	`Hobinheim`	`if everything is cited properly in moderation, i don't see the crime`
`17:32.20`	`Hobinheim`	`it's just a little more blatant looking in this case`
`17:32.20`	`Kirkburn`	`The fire naga thing became a bit of a running joke on the RPPvP forums`
`17:32.22`	`Baggins`	`I know I tend to directly quote the RPG material, but I don't want to alter what they say.`
`17:32.34`	`Baggins`	`or put my own thoughts into it`
`17:32.37`	`Hobinheim`	`then just "" is`
`17:32.38`	`Hobinheim`	`*it`
`17:32.53`	`Baggins`	`if they ask me to stop I will stop.`
`17:33.00`	`Baggins`	`I've been in contact with a few of thea uthors`
`17:33.16`	`Baggins`	`they haven't complained yet, and I've always cited the material`
`17:33.26`	`Baggins`	`or least I have been since the citation started`
`17:33.37`	`Baggins`	`fire naga LOL`
`17:34.29`	`Baggins`	`I always thought flamewaker would be their race name.`
`17:34.59`	`*** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com)`
`17:34.59`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ`
`17:35.08`	`Adys`	`ello gryph`
`17:35.52`	`Baggins`	`But generally you'll notice I only add obscura from the RPG, and only things that add something new to pages that have content already.`
`17:36.13`	`Baggins`	`stuff that average person won't have access to`
`17:36.23`	`Baggins`	`if they are interested in knowing the facts`
`17:36.28`	`Hobinheim`	`what's a fire naga`
`17:36.33`	`Baggins`	`fan name`
`17:36.35`	`Hobinheim`	`of`
`17:36.37`	`Baggins`	`for a flamewakre`
`17:36.43`	`Baggins`	`the things in Molten Core`
`17:36.49`	`Baggins`	`*flamewaker`
`17:36.52`	`Kirkburn`	`I've fixed up http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Citation_index`
`17:36.53`	`Hobinheim`	`zomg if goblins and naga were races what classes would they play and what abilities do they have`
`17:36.59`	`Hobinheim`	`my mind goes crazy just thinking about it`
`17:37.05`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`17:37.21`	`Baggins`	`well in rpg they are often tinkers, engineers, and steam warriors he heh`
`17:37.35`	`Hobinheim`	`steam warriors?`
`17:37.39`	`Kirkburn`	`Hobinheim, the problem was that the article gave the impression that the flamewakers really were fire naga :/`
`17:37.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Which is total crap :)`
`17:38.13`	`Baggins`	`A steam warrior is a warrior that uses a mechanical phlogiston powered steam suit`
`17:38.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`Before the races were announced for the burning crusade, people speculated wildly that naga might be a playable race.`
`17:38.20`	`Baggins`	`like the goblin shredders`
`17:38.28`	`Hobinheim`	`i dunno i just get really excited when i see humanoids like the centaurs and the quillboar... they kinda sorta have their own classes, their own abilities, it would be stupid fun to play as one of them`
`17:38.30`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`17:38.36`	`Kirkburn`	`(the article today, mostly as I rewrote it: http://www.wowwiki.com/Flamewaker)`
`17:39.26`	`Baggins`	`the other issue, was that race being called salamander`
`17:39.37`	`Baggins`	`by some fans`
`17:40.06`	`Baggins`	`Which made for a funny explanation by Brann Bronzebeard in Alliance or Horde player's guide LOL`
`17:40.24`	`Baggins`	`Where he kind of poked fun at people who had that misconception`
`17:41.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Lol, really?`
`17:41.58`	`Baggins`	`Ya, let me see if I can find the section`
`17:42.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Add it :D`
`17:42.12`	`Kirkburn`	`I just tidied the article a little`
`17:42.54`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`can you fight Archimonde in WoW?`
`17:42.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`Having a race like the naga as playable would bring up too many design issues, I think. Boots? Rings? Gloves? They have 4 arms and no feet.`
`17:43.11`	`Baggins`	`Uh maybe in the BC`
`17:43.29`	`Baggins`	`well naga would look odd wearing clothes`
`17:43.36`	`Baggins`	`seeing as we never see them in clothes`
`17:43.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Naga in BC wear some clothes`
`17:43.53`	`Baggins`	`all naga or the ones in outland?`
`17:43.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Shoulder armour for example :)`
`17:44.05`	`Kirkburn`	`And also tops, I think`
`17:44.15`	`Kirkburn`	`Outland`
`17:44.19`	`Baggins`	`I see`
`17:44.22`	`Hobinheim`	`design issues = hide them`
`17:44.32`	`Hobinheim`	`rings don't show up`
`17:44.33`	`Kirkburn`	`But certainly nothing below their waist`
`17:44.44`	`Hobinheim`	`disable glove or boot slots even`
`17:44.50`	`Baggins`	`ya guess they don't have to worry about swimming as much :)`
`17:44.52`	`Baggins`	`in outland`
`17:45.02`	`Hobinheim`	`i'm sure there's some felwater, somewhere`
`17:45.04`	`Kirkburn`	`We-ell`
`17:45.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Zangarmarsh? ;)`
`17:45.16`	`Baggins`	`ya, and aquaduct place`
`17:45.31`	`Baggins`	`maybe Illiden told them to get some clothes on LOL`
`17:45.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`Naga fanart:`
`17:45.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`http://lnk.nu/images.google.com/ctr`
`17:45.54`	`Tepetkhet`	`VERY nice pic...`
`17:46.12`	`Tepetkhet`	`wait`
`17:46.16`	`Tepetkhet`	`wrong link`
`17:46.36`	`Tepetkhet`	`http://lnk.nu/blizzard.com/cts.aspx`
`17:46.38`	`Tepetkhet`	`There we go.`
`17:46.52`	`Baggins`	`heh`
`17:47.18`	`Baggins`	`They used to have loincloths in game, until people complained :P`
`17:47.43`	`Baggins`	`I hate player immaturity :p`
`17:47.59`	`Tepetkhet`	`People complained about loincloths?`
`17:48.05`	`Hobinheim`	`lol yeah what`
`17:48.48`	`Baggins`	`ya their used to be a loincloth that dropped off of trolls or maybe the bloosail buccaneers`
`17:49.03`	`Baggins`	`first they removed the graphic, and then later changed the name`
`17:49.12`	`Tepetkhet`	`Oh, right.`
`17:49.14`	`Tepetkhet`	`uh`
`17:49.47`	`Baggins`	`Barbaric Loincloth, that might have been it`
`17:50.13`	`Baggins`	`not sure`
`17:50.23`	`Tepetkhet`	`http://www.niceboots.com/~tenebrae/misc/wow/models/Barbaric01.jpg`
`17:50.41`	`Tepetkhet`	`There's also a 02 and 03`
`17:51.06`	`Tepetkhet`	`And there's also http://www.niceboots.com/~tenebrae/misc/wow/models/Abyssal01.jpg`
`17:51.12`	`Tepetkhet`	`and 02 and 03 in that series, too.`
`17:51.16`	`Baggins`	`heh`
`17:51.30`	`Tepetkhet`	`"I am the queen of No Pants!"`
`17:51.40`	`Baggins`	`no I don't think that's the same loincloth they removed`
`17:51.59`	`Baggins`	`the other one literally hung down kind of like the tabard`
`17:52.07`	`Baggins`	`and you could see skin from the sides`
`17:52.18`	`Baggins`	`it removed the underware graphic`
`17:52.42`	`Tepetkhet`	`hahaha`
`17:52.45`	`Tepetkhet`	`Nice.`
`17:53.25`	`Hobinheim`	`perverts....`
`17:53.27`	`Baggins`	`but apparently parents or players complained`
`17:54.08`	`Hobinheim`	`grow up...`
`17:54.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`My kid's 15.`
`17:54.20`	`Tepetkhet`	`Plays a female human priest.`
`17:54.27`	`Hobinheim`	`stupidity should be punishable and finable by law`
`17:54.33`	`Tepetkhet`	`I just laughed when I saw the char running around in the Nopants.`
`17:54.34`	`Hobinheim`	`"STOP BEING AN IDIOT"`
`17:54.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`I'm like, "Put some pants on!"`
`17:54.44`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`17:54.47`	`Hobinheim`	`"STOP HONOR AFK FARMING"`
`17:54.48`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`17:54.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`yeah`
`17:54.55`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`17:55.59`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`bbl`
`17:56.11`	`Tepetkhet`	`Really, people.`
`17:56.15`	`Tepetkhet`	`Try being a parent to your kids.`
`17:56.23`	`Baggins`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Worgen.png I think that's sorta of what the old loincloth looked like`
`17:56.39`	`Tepetkhet`	`If you don't like the pants they're wearing (or not wearing), then log in there and farm honour for them to get 'em some PvP pants!`
`17:56.41`	`Baggins`	`maybe a slightly different skin`
`17:56.50`	`Baggins`	`heh heh`
`17:57.51`	`Patrigan`	`o`
`17:57.53`	`Patrigan`	`oO`
`17:58.07`	`Patrigan`	`since when did this channel turn into a discussion place for wether or not wear pants...`
`17:58.16`	`Baggins`	`Pants in WoW, :p`
`17:58.30`	`Patrigan`	`I mean, I'm not wearing any pants atm, do you see the squirrel complaing? He's happy to be free for once...`
`17:58.39`	`Tepetkhet`	`rofl`
`17:58.42`	`*** join/#wowwiki Sakabatou (n=Bladerev@sb-217-129-120-240.netvisao.pt)`
`17:58.43`	`Tepetkhet`	`The squirrel??`
`17:58.43`	`Baggins`	`I'm wearing shorts... I hate pants`
`17:58.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`Hangs around with his nuts?`
`17:58.57`	`Patrigan`	`Though, I'm gonna put him back soon... the fluffy tail feels good in my pants ^^`
`17:59.04`	`Patrigan`	`XD`
`17:59.11`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`17:59.12`	`Patrigan`	`Tepetkhet that one was nice ^^`
`17:59.18`	`Patrigan`	`need to remember that one :p`
`17:59.42`	`Patrigan`	`fits perfectly in the squirrel in the pants joke ^^`
`17:59.49`	`Patrigan`	`Anyways`
`17:59.55`	`Tepetkhet`	`Erm...fluffy tail??`
`17:59.55`	`Patrigan`	`Wow-europe up again?`
`18:00.07`	`Tepetkhet`	`Can I interest you in a beard trimmer?`
`18:00.09`	`Patrigan`	`>.> put a sock in it!`
`18:00.12`	`Patrigan`	`(or over it)`
`18:00.30`	`Tepetkhet`	`Guaranteed not to nick your delicate parts.`
`18:00.50`	`Patrigan`	`weren't you a lady! since when did ladies start talking like that! sigh I'm getting old :(`
`18:02.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`I'm a woman, but I sure ain't no lady.`
`18:02.50`	`Patrigan`	`btw, any clue what happened with wow today?`
`18:02.55`	`Baggins`	`I believe the rest of the people on have been scared away from discussions LOL.`
`18:02.58`	`Patrigan`	`XD touch�.`
`18:03.12`	`Patrigan`	`but back to serious bussiness`
`18:03.21`	`Patrigan`	`europe seemed to have lots of downtimes today`
`18:03.51`	`Baggins`	`I think US servers were supposed to be down today for rolling restarts, if I read the news yesterday correctly.`
`18:06.05`	`Patrigan`	`myeah`
`18:06.10`	`Patrigan`	`but no such news on EUrope XD`
`18:06.58`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`wasnt that suppose to happen the 2nd?`
`18:07.20`	`Patrigan`	`If we were t define the WoWwiki in a region, would we specify it as Europe, America or all?`
`18:07.48`	`Baggins`	`I have no idea...`
`18:07.57`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`America! :D`
`18:08.02`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`East Coast preferably`
`18:08.05`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`¬.¬`
`18:08.07`	`Baggins`	`I spell gray, grey, and yet I'm American does that make me a traitor?`
`18:08.16`	`Patrigan`	`I suppose all, to prevent those filthy americans to get all honors...`
`18:09.11`	`Patrigan`	`though, we should fix the Server pages...`
`18:09.19`	`Patrigan`	`first of all Realm: instead of Server:`
`18:09.26`	`Patrigan`	`and then every single realm followed by a regioncode`
`18:09.28`	`Baggins`	`true`
`18:09.30`	`Patrigan`	`and not the region`
`18:09.38`	`Patrigan`	`so everywhere EU instead of Europe`
`18:09.52`	`Patrigan`	`and everywhere US instead of nothing (as it is atm for some realm ><)`
`18:10.12`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`what about antartic servers :\|`
`18:10.24`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`polar bears like their WoW too you know >:{`
`18:10.25`	`Patrigan`	`antartic?`
`18:10.34`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`dont discriminate`
`18:10.38`	`Patrigan`	`afaik there's only US / EU / CH / KR`
`18:10.38`	`Baggins`	`European Union? Pah... Removes national identity :p`
`18:10.51`	`Patrigan`	`Just Europe -_-`
`18:10.56`	`Baggins`	`ahh`
`18:11.09`	`Patrigan`	`that's where EU comes from in this case`
`18:11.16`	`Baggins`	`just clarifying`
`18:11.18`	`Patrigan`	`I know it's also European Union`
`18:11.30`	`Baggins`	`I would go EUR`
`18:11.31`	`Patrigan`	`though, would be cool to kick the swedes from our realm!`
`18:11.35`	`Patrigan`	`too long`
`18:11.41`	`Patrigan`	`regioncodes are 2 letters >.>`
`18:12.47`	`Baggins`	`well at least they won't run out of 2 letter combinations like earth will likely run out of IP addesses on current system :p`
`18:13.04`	`Patrigan`	`they're alrdy converting to Hex IP atm...`
`18:13.13`	`Baggins`	`Ya the new windows uses the new system right?`
`18:13.28`	`Patrigan`	`not 100% sure about that one`
`18:13.36`	`Patrigan`	`but it'll have to be used soon`
`18:13.41`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`18:13.58`	`Baggins`	`does that require you to change hardware?`
`18:14.07`	`Patrigan`	`normally it shouldn't`
`18:14.16`	`Baggins`	`That's cool.`
`18:14.17`	`Patrigan`	`but nearly ALL internet software will require updating`
`18:14.22`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`18:14.34`	`Patrigan`	`but, afaik, IE and Firefox and most big browsers alrdy have it built in`
`18:14.51`	`Patrigan`	`and all DNS services`
`18:15.03`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`18:15.07`	`Baggins`	`just not utilized`
`18:15.15`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`18:15.18`	`Patrigan`	`and the only hardware changes will probably happen in the Internet Hubs (the big basement rooms where everything comes together)`
`18:15.29`	`Baggins`	`I remember there were like two competing technologies for the next generation. Sounds like they finally decided on one?`
`18:15.43`	`Patrigan`	`not sure bout that one`
`18:15.53`	`Patrigan`	`I know there were 2 fighting for the new CD`
`18:16.01`	`Patrigan`	`blueray and HDD`
`18:16.08`	`Baggins`	`Fun...`
`18:16.16`	`Patrigan`	`a good example`
`18:16.22`	`Patrigan`	`Xbox uses HDD I think`
`18:16.24`	`Baggins`	`I won't be buying either until a standard is set in place`
`18:16.27`	`Patrigan`	`while PS3 will use Blueray`
`18:16.32`	`Baggins`	`HDD addon`
`18:16.40`	`Baggins`	`PS3 had blueray ya`
`18:16.59`	`Patrigan`	`so, It's safe to assume that HDD will become the new standard`
`18:17.03`	`Baggins`	`but PS3 is so expensive average consumers avoid it :p`
`18:17.04`	`Patrigan`	`simply because PS3 will fail`
`18:17.18`	`Baggins`	`heh heh`
`18:17.21`	`Patrigan`	`and thus HDD will get the best support and the most users`
`18:17.35`	`Patrigan`	`PS3 has 0% chance of survival`
`18:17.40`	`Baggins`	`ya there are way more companies out there making HDD systems`
`18:17.48`	`Patrigan`	`Xbox360 is better in quality`
`18:17.51`	`Baggins`	`not counting the addon you have to buy for the xbox 360`
`18:17.54`	`Patrigan`	`and the Wii is shitloads more fun XD`
`18:18.01`	`Baggins`	`I want a Wii`
`18:18.05`	`Patrigan`	`Wii pwns`
`18:18.17`	`Patrigan`	`I suspect Wii to rival Xbox360`
`18:18.30`	`Patrigan`	`with PS3 becoming like the Dreamcast was during the N64 PS1 war`
`18:18.34`	`Baggins`	`I think 360 and Wii are going to be the competion this time around. Not unless ps3 drops its price to at least xbox level :p`
`18:19.15`	`Patrigan`	`# Fan site administrators must be over 18, or have written permission from their parent or guardian.`
`18:19.15`	`Patrigan`	`# Your site must already be completed and online. Your site must already be receiving public visitors.`
`18:19.15`	`Patrigan`	`# The site can not contain or link to content which violates or encourages violating the World of Warcraft Terms of Use.`
`18:19.25`	`Patrigan`	`does the wowwiki follow those 3 points?`
`18:19.27`	`Baggins`	`Nintendo Cube didn't sell as well as the competition and for the gamer market but it did well enough for Nintendo's requirements.`
`18:19.43`	`Patrigan`	`sec Baggings`
`18:19.47`	`Baggins`	`I like those rules`
`18:19.57`	`Patrigan`	`but does the wiki follow them alrdy?`
`18:20.14`	`Baggins`	`maybe, not sure about the age check`
`18:20.22`	`Baggins`	`been awhile since I actually signed up`
`18:20.30`	`Sakabatou`	`cuddles his ds`
`18:20.30`	`Patrigan`	`I'm mostly concerned about "# The site can not contain or link to content which violates or encourages violating the World of Warcraft Terms of Use."`
`18:20.38`	`Baggins`	`Loves DS`
`18:20.41`	`Patrigan`	`Loves DS`
`18:20.46`	`Sakabatou`	`Loves DS`
`18:21.05`	`Sakabatou`	`Best gaming platform ever`
`18:21.09`	`Baggins`	`My source for 2-d Castlevania adrenaline rushes ;)`
`18:21.25`	`Patrigan`	`XD`
`18:21.27`	`Baggins`	`Its pure gameplay drug.`
`18:21.30`	`Patrigan`	`nah, but seriously for a sec`
`18:21.37`	`Patrigan`	`I'm concerned about those points`
`18:21.42`	`Patrigan`	`would love to see the wiki on http://www.wow-europe.com/en/links/fansites.html`
`18:21.58`	`Baggins`	`well we aren't allowed to do anything that breaks terms of use`
`18:22.03`	`Patrigan`	`mostly because of: In return, fan sites will receive regular updates and heads-up on news along with some additional surprises from time to time.`
`18:22.10`	`Baggins`	`infact those pages should be deleted if you find any.`
`18:22.50`	`Baggins`	`like the other day, the article, .kill was eliminated`
`18:23.06`	`Baggins`	`cause it broke terms.`
`18:23.54`	`Patrigan`	`there's only 1 thing I'm concerned with`
`18:23.58`	`Patrigan`	`and that's the Google Adds`
`18:24.03`	`Baggins`	`hmm`
`18:25.21`	`Baggins`	`I hate the google ads personally`
`18:25.28`	`Baggins`	`such an eyesore`
`18:25.34`	`Patrigan`	`myeah, but I suppose we can't delete them`
`18:25.43`	`Baggins`	`its paying for the site?`
`18:25.44`	`Patrigan`	`if we could, I want them gone`
`18:25.48`	`Patrigan`	`guess so...`
`18:26.23`	`Patrigan`	`It's against the terms of use to sell gold or promote the selling of gold`
`18:26.32`	`Patrigan`	`and such adds...`
`18:27.03`	`*** join/#wowwiki dotted (n=nnscript@0x555157c7.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`18:27.52`	`Apollozeus`	`they can be blocked, right?`
`18:28.06`	`Patrigan`	`perhaps`
`18:28.23`	`Patrigan`	`I know that we won't be able to enter the program if those ads stay`
`18:28.43`	`Patrigan`	`I know several posts on the forums promoting a new website that got locked because of such ads`
`18:28.51`	`Patrigan`	`it takes 1 person to remind the CMs about it`
`18:29.06`	`Baggins`	`hmm ya`
`18:29.06`	`dotted`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Twink <- lol this article needs some checking`
`18:29.08`	`Patrigan`	`evena page several CMs were happy about, but they had to lock it, because of the adds...`
`18:29.32`	`Baggins`	`ya, we don't want to lose wowwiki`
`18:29.41`	`dotted`	`Gold may also be purchased, in violation of the game's Terms of Service, from gold-selling websites. Twinks are mainly used in PVP fighting or in Battlegrounds because they have such an advantage over normal players. <- what has gold selling sites to do with twinking, and twinking doesnt necersarily mean to gain an advantage over non-twinks`
`18:30.24`	`Patrigan`	`sentence gone`
`18:31.13`	`Baggins`	`Well discussing gold selling is one thing if you discuss the negative and illegal aspect behind it`
`18:31.25`	`Patrigan`	`true`
`18:31.29`	`Baggins`	`but links to places to buy gold is another`
`18:31.41`	`Patrigan`	`well, you can't promote it in any way`
`18:31.45`	`dotted`	`"Twinks are mainly used in PVP fighting or in Battlegrounds because they have such an advantage over normal players." is still a wrong statement, or rather a not-neutral statement`
`18:31.47`	`Patrigan`	`and that sentence was proimotional >.>`
`18:31.50`	`Baggins`	`ya we can't be neutral about gold selling`
`18:31.56`	`Baggins`	`there is no NPOV`
`18:32.09`	`Patrigan`	`we are contra goldbuying`
`18:32.10`	`Baggins`	`ya, the way it wa sworded, "Gold may be"`
`18:32.20`	`Patrigan`	`besides`
`18:32.27`	`Patrigan`	`which mroon would buy gold to create a twink ><`
`18:32.40`	`Patrigan`	`that's such a waste of money...`
`18:32.43`	`Baggins`	`LOL, people with alot of money on their hands and no life :P`
`18:32.53`	`Patrigan`	`good point XD`
`18:32.57`	`dotted`	`"which mroon would buy gold for anything" fixed :p`
`18:33.07`	`Patrigan`	`well`
`18:33.11`	`Baggins`	`I mean I wouldn't spend $2500 dollers just so I could get myself a ogre suit :p`
`18:33.12`	`Apollozeus`	`which mroon would spell mroon wrong?`
`18:33.13`	`Patrigan`	`I could see several things...`
`18:33.13`	`Apollozeus`	`:P`
`18:33.23`	`Patrigan`	`well`
`18:33.28`	`Patrigan`	`I buy the cards for the game`
`18:33.33`	`Patrigan`	`and the ogre suit is a nice extra`
`18:33.39`	`Baggins`	`if you ever reach that point`
`18:33.41`	`Patrigan`	`though I've gotten myself the Parvink Background now`
`18:33.44`	`Apollozeus`	`well`
`18:33.51`	`Apollozeus`	`buying cards for 2500`
`18:33.52`	`Patrigan`	`<3 Parvink`
`18:33.55`	`Apollozeus`	`even without the ogre suit`
`18:34.02`	`Apollozeus`	`kinda... crepy`
`18:34.04`	`Apollozeus`	`creepy*`
`18:34.06`	`Patrigan`	`that's a shitload of cards :p`
`18:34.16`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`18:34.17`	`Apollozeus`	`you could use that to decorate your entire house`
`18:34.29`	`Baggins`	`and worst thing is the ocmpany has said they'd remove rewards from time to time and add new ones`
`18:34.30`	`Patrigan`	`I have bought anough cards now to accumulate about 5000 points`
`18:34.35`	`Baggins`	`every year`
`18:34.38`	`Patrigan`	`nag`
`18:34.47`	`Patrigan`	`theys aid they expect players to take months for the ogre suit`
`18:34.57`	`Patrigan`	`I doubt they'll be removing the ingame stuff`
`18:35.08`	`dotted`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Twink#Twinking_debate <- shouldnt be on a wiki imo`
`18:35.19`	`Apollozeus`	`I don't even think the TCG is going to a success, methinks`
`18:35.21`	`dotted`	`that article stinks`
`18:35.28`	`Adys`	`it is so far apollo`
`18:35.34`	`Patrigan`	`Apollozeus`
`18:35.41`	`Patrigan`	`it got chosen as the best TCG of 2006`
`18:35.48`	`Patrigan`	`and it isn't even out for 4 months`
`18:35.50`	`Adys`	`dotted: should be moved to talk page, gonna do that now`
`18:35.53`	`Patrigan`	`http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/WOW/COMMUNITY/forums/thread/271796.aspx`
`18:35.59`	`Baggins`	`Ya TCG's have not really done well i the last few years`
`18:36.05`	`Patrigan`	`check that page has a bit of information about UDE point cards`
`18:36.12`	`Baggins`	`and most people don't have the money for that kind of investment`
`18:36.23`	`Patrigan`	`gonna try reworking that into a wiki page`
`18:36.25`	`Baggins`	`I can barely keep an account of WoW active :p`
`18:36.38`	`Patrigan`	`well, many plkayers have alrdy switched to WoW TCG`
`18:36.43`	`Patrigan`	`because of the low amount of sets a year`
`18:36.52`	`Patrigan`	`Magic has 4-6 sets a year`
`18:36.57`	`Baggins`	`but hey patrigan if you want to help me out and give me an extra turtle card I'll be indebted to you fo rlife ;)`
`18:37.02`	`Patrigan`	`XD`
`18:37.08`	`Patrigan`	`Alrdy had a hyppogriph <3$`
`18:37.15`	`Patrigan`	`cuteness`
`18:37.20`	`Baggins`	`I'd like one of those too heh heh`
`18:37.33`	`Baggins`	`but I can't complain too much I have my zergling :)`
`18:37.40`	`Patrigan`	`but I suspect this card game to run for as long WoW will run`
`18:37.45`	`Baggins`	`I think murky should be obtainable by other means though`
`18:37.49`	`Patrigan`	`afterwards it will die a swift death`
`18:37.54`	`Baggins`	`other than that one non-tcg card`
`18:37.55`	`Patrigan`	`because their source for cards is gone`
`18:37.57`	`Apollozeus`	`NO`
`18:38.00`	`Apollozeus`	`Death to the murlocs`
`18:38.19`	`Baggins`	`I think there hsould be an honor point way to get some of these rewards`
`18:38.29`	`Baggins`	`but make it alog higher than it woulod take to get UDE points for example.`
`18:38.31`	`Patrigan`	`Gurky was gettable if you competed in the contests pre christmas`
`18:38.48`	`Baggins`	`which contests?`
`18:38.48`	`Patrigan`	`and if the wiki was able to be in the fansite program`
`18:38.53`	`Baggins`	`oh that`
`18:38.53`	`Apollozeus`	`<Baggins> I think there hsould be an honor point way to get some of these rewards <-- "I've PvPed for three months, and all I got is this lousy murloc"`
`18:38.53`	`Patrigan`	`we could've handed out 200 or so`
`18:39.03`	`Patrigan`	`XD`
`18:39.05`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`18:39.06`	`Patrigan`	`pwned Apollozeus`
`18:39.08`	`Patrigan`	`either way`
`18:39.10`	`Patrigan`	`dinner now`
`18:39.17`	`Baggins`	`Appolo probably more like "2 years"`
`18:39.21`	`Patrigan`	`if vlad_ or Kirkburn\|afk (he might know aswell)`
`18:39.23`	`Patrigan`	`gets here`
`18:39.28`	`Patrigan`	`ask them concerning the google ads`
`18:39.37`	`Patrigan`	`and if there aren't any good substitutes`
`18:39.44`	`Patrigan`	`if he has questions`
`18:39.54`	`Baggins`	`ya google ads, also has leveling services that's also against TOS`
`18:40.00`	`Patrigan`	`remind im of http://www.wow-europe.com/en/links/fansites.html`
`18:40.05`	`Patrigan`	`and he'll realise why`
`18:40.10`	`Patrigan`	`tell them I said it...`
`18:40.17`	`Patrigan`	`kind of important, if I want to make that PR post`
`18:40.27`	`Patrigan`	`dinner now, cyaz`
`18:42.04`	`*** join/#wowwiki Tumples (n=tumples@87.112.17.30.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net)`
`18:56.00`	`*** join/#wowwiki Miratu (n=no@89.233.191.27)`
`18:56.46`	`*** part/#wowwiki Miratu (n=no@89.233.191.27)`
`18:56.55`	`*** join/#wowwiki Miratu (n=no@89.233.191.27)`
`18:57.06`	`*** part/#wowwiki Miratu (n=no@89.233.191.27)`
`18:58.39`	`Zeal`	`lo all`
`18:58.52`	`Tumples`	`lo`
`18:58.58`	`Baggins`	`hi zeal`
`19:09.13`	`Baggins`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Mite#What_is_a_mite.3F grrr`
`19:10.38`	`Zeal`	`yeah, EU, US, KR, CN are the iso region codes. it's the European Union that's the issue :p`
`19:10.45`	`Baggins`	`Am I the only one that noticed that Blizzard rarely ever uses the term "canon"?`
`19:10.50`	`Baggins`	`they use the term "lore"`
`19:11.06`	`Baggins`	`they rarely discuss what is "non-lore"`
`19:11.17`	`Tepetkhet`	`Because canon implies it's not changeable.`
`19:11.23`	`Tepetkhet`	`heh`
`19:11.34`	`Zeal`	`nah, cannon can be retconed still`
`19:11.35`	`Baggins`	`ya its fans that have applied that terminology most of the time`
`19:11.45`	`Baggins`	`and its usually a version of personal fanon`
`19:11.49`	`Baggins`	`when they apply it`
`19:11.52`	`Tepetkhet`	`And blizz changes lore to suit its needs.`
`19:11.52`	`Zeal`	`i generally never use the term cannon though, don't like it.`
`19:11.58`	`Tepetkhet`	`Or to avoid backpedalling.`
`19:12.01`	`Baggins`	`me too`
`19:12.07`	`Baggins`	`I prefer "lore"`
`19:12.18`	`Baggins`	`Its what blizzard uses, and its neutral`
`19:12.24`	`jrr`	`i use cannon sometimes, when referring to artillery`
`19:12.26`	`Baggins`	`can mean flavor lore or whatever`
`19:12.29`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`19:12.29`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`http://www.armorcast.com/vehicles/picture/6042S.jpg`
`19:12.30`	`Zeal`	`lol jrr`
`19:12.31`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`cannon`
`19:12.32`	`Tepetkhet`	`hah`
`19:12.40`	`Baggins`	`ya cannons in the article about cannons is fine`
`19:13.35`	`Tepetkhet`	`Lore has a feeling of somebody sitting around a fire telling a story...canon makes me think of rabid fanboys waving some encyclopaedic book around.`
`19:13.56`	`Tepetkhet`	`Maybe that's just me...`
`19:14.16`	`equiraptor`	`Shooting encyclopaedic books out of cannons.`
`19:14.48`	`Zeal`	`rofl`
`19:14.59`	`Baggins`	`Igrees with Tepet`
`19:15.02`	`Baggins`	`*agree`
`19:15.26`	`Baggins`	`besides in real life having legends that don't always agree with each other are fascinating`
`19:15.27`	`Zeal`	`dangerous thing, as most fanboys can't tell the difference between a retcon and flavor lore :p`
`19:15.35`	`Baggins`	`I like how warcraft emulates that concept`
`19:15.43`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`19:16.02`	`jrr`	`in real life there are crappy/partial information sources`
`19:16.07`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`19:16.14`	`jrr`	`in fiction there's no reason it can't be made up correctly`
`19:16.21`	`Baggins`	`and sometimes sources can all share kernals of truth`
`19:17.38`	`Baggins`	`Well Metzen discussess on the making of DVD for WoW they want the universe to feel lived in, so they make certain things have mysterious or questionable pasts`
`19:17.38`	`Baggins`	`different races have different opinions on what happened etc`
`19:18.12`	`Baggins`	`If you go to Warcraft III manual for example, it mentions 2-3 different creation theories for how the world came to be.`
`19:18.24`	`Baggins`	`including the titan one`
`19:18.45`	`Baggins`	`and states, "no one knows for sure"`
`19:18.54`	`jrr`	`the tricky thing is that they base all the game content they make on this lore`
`19:19.11`	`jrr`	`and if you base stuff on both (contradicting) sides of a story, you have problems`
`19:19.34`	`jrr`	`so there's gotta be a canon`
`19:21.16`	`Baggins`	`I think the novels and RPG and RTS allow for a more linear static history`
`19:21.23`	`Zeal`	`i dunno wtf they did with WC3 manaul, but thee's two different versions of it`
`19:21.34`	`Baggins`	`the problem with WoW is that both sides oftne cover the same stories but from competing viewpoints or outcomes`
`19:21.37`	`Zeal`	`one is short, lacks msot of that info (what i have) :(`
`19:21.48`	`Baggins`	`I have the first edition`
`19:21.52`	`Baggins`	`collector's version`
`19:21.58`	`Zeal`	`i see`
`19:22.14`	`Zeal`	`well i got WC3 late, i know that. pisses me off though`
`19:22.25`	`Baggins`	`actually the history of warcrafton hte official website has all or most of that material`
`19:22.36`	`Baggins`	`just not the page numbers`
`19:22.42`	`Zeal`	`yeah, so i've heard. but some details are apprently different.`
`19:22.55`	`Baggins`	`well it has additions`
`19:22.59`	`Baggins`	`not really any changes`
`19:23.07`	`Baggins`	`everything form the manual is word fo word`
`19:23.29`	`Baggins`	`I've not found any differences as far as pargraphs from the manual are concerned.`
`19:23.36`	`*** join/#wowwiki Deathface (n=PMme@c-69-136-42-117.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)`
`19:23.57`	`Baggins`	`BTW I think I have an extra copy of the warcraft 3 manual collector's verison`
`19:24.19`	`Deathface`	`Hey guys`
`19:24.29`	`Baggins`	`if you can trade me a TCG turtle or hyppogrhph card I'd be willing to let you ahve it ;)`
`19:24.42`	`Baggins`	`hi`
`19:24.43`	`Deathface`	`what's the best/cleanest/most useful UI ?`
`19:24.48`	`jrr`	`HA`
`19:24.49`	`Gryphen`	`heya`
`19:24.52`	`Deathface`	`im just using default right now`
`19:24.55`	`jrr`	`that's like asking for the best desktop in #linux`
`19:25.38`	`Tepetkhet`	`hahaha`
`19:25.39`	`Deathface`	`discord = more bells and whistles?`
`19:26.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`Personally, I don't use Gnome or KDE...I just use xfree86 with FVWM.`
`19:26.22`	`Baggins`	`ahh, yes the history of warcraft obviously lacks the unit/structures lore sections`
`19:26.41`	`jrr`	`the only discord stuff i've used are action bars`
`19:27.01`	`jrr`	`Tepetkhet: i like XFCE for speed on an old box, and gnome on something modern`
`19:27.53`	`Tepetkhet`	`My Linux box is so old that it can barely handle FVWM running Opera with multiple tabs...`
`19:28.15`	`jrr`	`no xgl for you, then =D`
`19:28.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`but then, my freeBSD server...I don't even have x anything installed.`
`19:28.52`	`Tepetkhet`	`muahaha`
`19:28.58`	`Tepetkhet`	`No Need for GUI.`
`19:29.05`	`equiraptor`	`I think I have X things installed on my server.`
`19:29.09`	`equiraptor`	`ssh -X FTW!`
`19:29.24`	`Tepetkhet`	`oh ho ho`
`19:29.27`	`Deathface`	`so ... im gonna go search for discord i guess`
`19:29.35`	`equiraptor`	`I remember running my Gentoo Linux desktop's firefox on my FreeBSD laptop, because I wanted Linux flash.`
`19:29.37`	`jrr`	`discord is complicated`
`19:30.03`	`jrr`	`but if you want action bars of various sizes and arrangements (doesn't hafta be one row or col) it's awesome`
`19:30.05`	`Tepetkhet`	`In WoW, I'm using TitanPanel. equiraptor here loves to tell me FuBar's so much better and I should ditch the thing.`
`19:30.06`	`Deathface`	`i dont know if complicated is good, im kinda noobish`
`19:30.21`	`jrr`	`Deathface: for chars of what level?`
`19:30.21`	`equiraptor`	`Tepetkhet: You sohuld at least give it a try. :)`
`19:30.22`	`Tepetkhet`	`From what I hear, FuBar > TitanPanel > CosmosUI.`
`19:31.09`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Cosmos is totally unrelated!`
`19:31.11`	`Zeal`	`orcs were orginally brown.. fun`
`19:31.32`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`But yes, FuBar > Titan`
`19:31.34`	`Deathface`	`jrr im lvl 17 atm`
`19:31.57`	`Tepetkhet`	`Is it?`
`19:31.57`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Cosmos is fine for a new person`
`19:32.03`	`Deathface`	`i did cosmos`
`19:32.10`	`Deathface`	`should i run it in thottbot mode`
`19:32.21`	`Deathface`	`it was kinda confusing`
`19:32.26`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`No`
`19:32.36`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`You want release or beta`
`19:32.46`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`(or whatever it's called now, Gryphen will know)`
`19:32.51`	`Deathface`	`like i dont know how to use half the crap i feel like`
`19:32.57`	`Deathface`	`i liked the recharge numbers though`
`19:33.05`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Cooldown counts?`
`19:33.09`	`Deathface`	`yeah`
`19:33.13`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Very useful, yeah :)`
`19:33.23`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Absolutely essential, I'd go as far as saying`
`19:33.25`	`Deathface`	`what else is useful in cosmos?`
`19:33.39`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Lots of it, take a look around the options screen`
`19:33.56`	`Deathface`	`i guess i will re install it`
`19:34.25`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I used to use Cosmos until recently (I moved to mostly Ace addons, partly since I know what I'm doing these days)`
`19:35.11`	`equiraptor`	`Yeah, I've been trying to move to mostly Ace addons, as well.`
`19:35.24`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Someone wanted to know about the fansite program?`
`19:36.37`	`Gryphen`	`I'm not new and Cosmos is fine for me :)`
`19:36.38`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I don't know the exact reasoning, probably partly the extra time required by vlad_, and because at some point we had a fair few 'datamined' things, which we've since got serious about removing and preventing their uploading`
`19:36.54`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Gryphen, you know I didn't mean it that way :P`
`19:37.28`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`I used cosmos for about 12+ months I think, awesome stuff =)`
`19:37.29`	`Gryphen`	`Think we were listed on the fansite and then about the time of the whole cross faction talking articles it got removed`
`19:37.47`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Oh yeah, that was the kind of stuff`
`19:37.54`	`*** join/#wowwiki Gilles (n=ag@dsl-241-168-224.telkomadsl.co.za)`
`19:38.03`	`Gilles`	`elo`
`19:38.06`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`hullo`
`19:38.09`	`Gryphen`	`Think it will be tough to get listed becuase there is no pre-moderation of content.`
`19:38.10`	`Baggins`	`oh hi kirkburn`
`19:38.14`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`(be back in a while, dinner!)`
`19:38.17`	`Baggins`	`Patrigan brought up a good point`
`19:38.20`	`Baggins`	`you should hear`
`19:38.21`	`Gryphen`	`Damage is done no matter how fast an article is removed`
`19:38.36`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`20 mins or so .... do go anywhere :)`
`19:38.39`	`Baggins`	`the google ads have ads that break terms of service`
`19:38.41`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`*don't!`
`19:38.43`	`Baggins`	`that's all I had to say`
`19:38.44`	`Gilles`	`who thinks warlocks are over powered`
`19:38.56`	`Baggins`	`gold farming and leveling services`
`19:38.57`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_'s the one to talk to about that`
`19:39.02`	`Baggins`	`alright`
`19:39.38`	`vlad_`	`they may break the terms of service, but if blizzard wants to do something about them, they need to fix their game`
`19:40.02`	`Baggins`	`well apparently blizzard has closed down sites for having the same kind of google ads in the past`
`19:40.10`	`Baggins`	`Patrigan has given a link to an example`
`19:40.18`	`Gryphen`	`there are plenty linked which have those ads`
`19:40.29`	`vlad_`	`Baggins: URL?`
`19:40.35`	`vlad_`	`Baggins: I would -love- to see them try`
`19:40.38`	`Baggins`	`let me see if I still have it listed above`
`19:41.13`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`vlad_, change the Google search to wiki search ... pwease? =)`
`19:41.28`	`Adys`	`google search is quite useful`
`19:41.39`	`vlad_`	`Kirkburn\|afk: i'm turn, they're both useful`
`19:41.46`	`vlad_`	`I might just put both search boxes back in the sidebar`
`19:41.56`	`Baggins`	`both would be nice`
`19:41.58`	`vlad_`	`the problem is that the wiki search does a good job of just taking you to a page if you type iun the page title`
`19:42.06`	`vlad_`	`but for actually searching content, it's pretty bad`
`19:42.16`	`Adys`	`Yepp`
`19:42.21`	`Baggins`	`there is an option for just searching for keywords I think.`
`19:42.32`	`Baggins`	`at least in the one in King's Quest Omnipedia`
`19:42.39`	`Baggins`	`its just finding that option that's a pain :P`
`19:42.51`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`<( '' )>`
`19:43.16`	`Gilles`	`anyone here on akama!?`
`19:43.35`	`Baggins`	`ok it was do a blank search`
`19:43.44`	`Baggins`	`then you get brought to a page with checkboxes`
`19:44.15`	`Baggins`	`which you an change to limit your search results`
`19:44.53`	`Baggins`	`where as "go" will take you to the direct match`
`19:45.21`	`Baggins`	`http://www.sq7.org/KQ/index.php/Main_Page`
`19:47.28`	`jrr`	`Gilles: not atm`
`19:47.29`	`jrr`	`have a toon`
`19:48.24`	`*** join/#wowwiki lalunas (n=macinsof@ti400720a080-15689.bb.online.no)`
`19:48.55`	`Baggins`	`but ya I wonder how omnipedia search works`
`19:49.33`	`Baggins`	`since it will only go to a specific site if you use the "go" option`
`19:59.54`	`Zeal`	`:s`
`20:00.26`	`Zeal`	`dunno about closing down, but blizzard will not except sites into the fan-site program that contain such google ads.`
`20:00.45`	`Kirkburn\|afk`	`Back!`
`20:00.57`	`jrr`	`Kirkburn: welcome!`
`20:01.12`	`Kirkburn`	`vlad_, it's mostly a case of submitting website names to a list to block them, no?`
`20:01.20`	`Zeal`	`given the nature of the wiki, and that you have to manually block the ads yourself, so new ones can pop up, blizzard would probably never except wowwiki into the fan-site program.`
`20:01.37`	`Zeal`	`too risky`
`20:01.42`	`Gryphen`	`I highly doubt they could close one down because of its ads. They could attempt to close the site in the ad.`
`20:01.52`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`20:02.17`	`jrr`	`there's no risk`
`20:02.17`	`vlad_`	`what are the advantages of getting into the fansite program?`
`20:02.17`	`Kirkburn`	`The very fact they're google ads is the problem. But probably not easily solvable ... and tbh, it's not a huge problem`
`20:02.17`	`Kirkburn`	`vlad_, competitions and linking`
`20:02.17`	`Zeal`	`beta key's for example :P`
`20:02.25`	`vlad_`	`jrr: there is no risk :p`
`20:03.58`	`Zeal`	`the lines between druid and shaman have become so blured to me since reading lord of the clans.`
`20:04.10`	`vlad_`	`brb, lunch`
`20:04.15`	`jrr`	`enjoy`
`20:04.28`	`Baggins`	`the only advantage to getting into fansite program is access to news from them and special bonues`
`20:04.40`	`jrr`	`and a hyperlink`
`20:04.50`	`Baggins`	`In return, fan sites will receive regular updates and heads-up on news along with some additional surprises from time to time.`
`20:05.28`	`Baggins`	`Ya they gave blizzplanet 100 free beta keys to give out`
`20:05.37`	`Baggins`	`that's how I got one`
`20:07.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Check the editing page now :D`
`20:07.30`	`Kirkburn`	`By which I mean, click "edit"`
`20:07.44`	`Zeal`	`worldofwar got loads of beta keys`
`20:07.51`	`Zeal`	`how i got mine :P`
`20:08.15`	`Adys`	`awesome kirk`
`20:08.17`	`Kirkburn`	`I got one from ui.worldofwar, one from wowi`
`20:08.27`	`Adys`	`wowinterface here`
`20:08.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Anything to add to it?`
`20:09.19`	`Adys`	`sounds fine`
`20:14.15`	`Kirkburn`	`Added Manual of Style link to left sidebar`
`20:14.45`	`Baggins`	`nice`
`20:15.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh, and clarified the other link`
`20:19.04`	`Zeal`	`er.. bah`
`20:19.49`	`lalunas`	`strangly, it is the listeners that makes this show rated mature :P`
`20:23.44`	`Zeal`	`huh?`
`20:24.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Help fill this out! http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Manual_of_Style`
`20:26.01`	`Zeal`	`yeah.. i'm rather reluctant`
`20:26.32`	`Kirkburn`	`I know you are :)`
`20:27.01`	`Kirkburn`	`This is for general rules though, to reinforce the best method`
`20:27.15`	`Zeal`	`i thought it was a proposal, ie the author should be doing it, us voting on it. or merely a proposal for the idea to have one (essentially making it a talk, not an article). really it needs to be moved, renamed, and proposals for styling written up`
`20:27.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Little of it would be changed by your proposal`
`20:27.41`	`Kirkburn`	`It's a guideline rather than a policy`
`20:27.43`	`Zeal`	`that's because i haven't written my styling proposal..`
`20:29.23`	`*** join/#wowwiki foxlit (n=me@0x50c4b029.albnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)`
`20:29.27`	`Zeal`	`styling wise, i've jsut been experimenting, creating templates for easier use, and showing them off and getting feedback (Conjured Bread being the latest revision to the styling)`
`20:29.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Since it's a guideline, it doesn't need voting, it just needs approval`
`20:29.50`	`Kirkburn`	`(Well that's my line anyway)`
`20:29.55`	`Zeal`	`and the difference between a policy and a guideline?`
`20:30.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Policies are the law, guidelines are the "etiquette"`
`20:30.42`	`Zeal`	`then the scope of it is beyong a guideline imo.`
`20:30.44`	`Kirkburn`	`"There's no law against eating with your hands, but we prefer you don't", that kind of thing`
`20:30.47`	`Zeal`	`*beyond`
`20:31.04`	`Kirkburn`	`It's best practise, not "you must do this"`
`20:31.16`	`Kirkburn`	`It's a stronger guideline, though, yes`
`20:31.51`	`Kirkburn`	`You get warnings and bans for not following policy. Using <h1> is no reason for that! :P`
`20:32.14`	`Adys`	`You get instabanned 1 year for using jpg icons too ><`
`20:32.19`	`Adys`	`please?`
`20:32.24`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`20:32.30`	`Kirkburn`	`How's that going?`
`20:32.41`	`Adys`	`about 70 icons left`
`20:32.53`	`Adys`	`I wanted to do them two days ago, had about 5 hours with nothing to do`
`20:32.58`	`Adys`	`and the wiki gone down><`
`20:33.03`	`Adys`	`went*`
`20:33.48`	`Adys`	`kinda busy nowadays tbh`
`20:33.57`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`not me`
`20:34.02`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I spend all my free time on WoW`
`20:34.06`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`¬.¬`
`20:34.31`	`Zeal`	`well imo, the 'guideline' has less to do with styling, and more to do with 'better pratices for formatting an article'`
`20:34.49`	`Adys`	`both zeal`
`20:35.11`	`Zeal`	`no, not really.`
`20:35.40`	`Adys`	`theres no difference, its better use of wikicode`
`20:36.23`	`Zeal`	`no, it's better writting and structuring pratices, not styling.`
`20:37.51`	`*** join/#wowwiki AlleCalle (n=SNap913@user63.85-195-36.netatonce.net)`
`20:37.57`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`have you guys fought Onyxia?`
`20:42.16`	`dotted`	`yes`
`20:42.21`	`dotted`	`why?`
`20:42.31`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I just saw a video of it -.-`
`20:42.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`it was like 20 people fighting her`
`20:42.40`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`him`
`20:42.41`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`it`
`20:42.53`	`Adys`	`her, yes`
`20:42.56`	`dotted`	`yeah its easy dont that too myself`
`20:43.14`	`dotted`	`ehh that came out wrong`
`20:43.35`	`dotted`	`what i meant to say was: yeah i have done that too`
`20:43.40`	`Zeal`	`it's hard to decide when to quote and cite, and when to neutralize. with the former you start getting into the realm of retarded copyright issues, with the latter it gets considered to be unreliable and inaccurate by the ignorant. what to do?`
`20:45.56`	`dotted`	`point and laugh at the ignorant`
`20:46.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, how on earth do you get to "styling" =/= "formatting" ?`
`20:47.34`	`Zeal`	`from styling being things such as font, positioning, colours. it's not the articles focus point. onyl thing in there really about it is italics on sources.`
`20:48.14`	`Zeal`	`focus of the article is how to write and structure your articles.`
`20:48.34`	`Zeal`	`not how to style it to look pretty.`
`20:49.54`	`Zeal`	`manual is deceiving and style is inaccurate.`
`20:50.03`	`lalunas`	`How old is Illidan?`
`20:51.12`	`Zeal`	`er.. like 10,100 years old or something.`
`20:51.30`	`foxlit`	`1-72 must've been a grind.`
`20:51.39`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`20:51.59`	`*** join/#wowwiki wrs (n=wrs@unaffiliated/wrs)`
`20:52.14`	`Zeal`	`arthas was his power level'd alt ;) he took a break at 60, lol.`
`20:52.59`	`Zeal`	`hogger is his twink`
`20:53.54`	`amro_`	`illidan sucks at twinking`
`20:54.26`	`amro_`	`and its probably a lot more than 10,100 years, that's just how long ago he was first imprisoned`
`20:55.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh I do love editing the policies, oh I do to edit by the sea ...`
`20:55.21`	`Zeal`	`no`
`20:55.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Nah, he and Furion were young in WotA`
`20:55.33`	`Zeal`	`thats how long ago he first appeared in warcraft`
`20:55.51`	`Zeal`	`10,025 to be more exact`
`20:55.52`	`Kirkburn`	`I think I recall it suggesting less than a hundred or so`
`20:55.57`	`Zeal`	`i just threw on soem random years`
`20:56.28`	`Kirkburn`	`You suggestion sounds about right :)`
`20:56.57`	`Zeal`	`indeed, probably could get a better guestimate if i knew the nelf aging better.`
`20:57.30`	`*** join/#wowwiki Sakabatou (n=Bladerev@sb-217-129-120-240.netvisao.pt)`
`20:57.54`	`Zeal`	`300 years mature apparently`
`20:58.18`	`Zeal`	`so.. more like 10,325 at least.`
`21:02.19`	`amro_`	`"Was previously voiced by Matthew Yang King. He has not renewed his contract for Burning Crusade, and another actor has replaced him since."`
`21:02.24`	`amro_`	`that's why he sounds so different`
`21:03.08`	`Zeal`	`shame indeed`
`21:03.45`	`*** join/#wowwiki _dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-70-225.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`21:05.23`	`jrr`	`illidan's voice?`
`21:05.33`	`Zeal`	`yeah`
`21:05.54`	`jrr`	`what about arthas dude`
`21:06.11`	`jrr`	`in ROC and TFT he sounds alot like adolescent anakin to me`
`21:06.17`	`jrr`	`real angsty`
`21:06.57`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`21:07.44`	`Tepetkhet`	`This sucks. I have to pee, but I'm waiting on my boss to call me back for some info.`
`21:07.52`	`Tepetkhet`	`And his cell phone doesn't work where he's at.`
`21:08.04`	`jrr`	`oh noes`
`21:08.18`	`Zeal`	`get a cup, lol.`
`21:08.41`	`jrr`	`do you have a wireless with a long enough range to make it to the bathroom? =D`
`21:08.57`	`Tepetkhet`	`Cups are messy...`
`21:24.18`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`oh man`
`21:24.29`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`in order to get my wolf mount I have to finish Honoered`
`21:24.32`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`go to Revered`
`21:24.39`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`and then get Exalted? XD`
`21:24.42`	`Adys`	`ya`
`21:25.02`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`meh`
`21:25.14`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`have you gotten exalted in another city thats not your native one?`
`21:25.48`	`Zeal`	`i got a little over half way through revered, but that was during the war effort.. god i miss that`
`21:26.06`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`im walfway through honored =\`
`21:26.12`	`Tuqui-tuqui`	`I wish these levls would add up >:{`
`21:29.22`	`wrs`	`can anyone recommend a 'AllInOneInventory' style addon for 2.x client?`
`21:29.33`	`wrs`	`cant find my favourite, bagnon :(`
`21:30.07`	`equiraptor`	`1) I think bagnon was updated, i'll see if I can find it`
`21:30.21`	`equiraptor`	`2) I use OneBag (with OneBank and OneView and ...)`
`21:30.37`	`equiraptor`	`I got OneBag from wowace.com, I believe it was.`
`21:31.35`	`wrs`	`ty :) also a friend just told me about vBagnon @ http://wow.curse-gaming.com/en/files/details/2090/vbagnon/`
`21:31.58`	`wrs`	`i'll try OneBag too, it looks good`
`21:32.22`	`equiraptor`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5465-BagnonBurningCrusade.html I think this should be an updated bagnon, but I haven't tried it. :)`
`21:32.47`	`equiraptor`	`I'm still getting used to onebag. I had been using AIOI, and it's a big change for me. I like it, but it's different and is taking some adjustment.`
`21:33.15`	`Adys`	`bagnon is prob the best coded addon of them all imo`
`21:34.01`	`wrs`	`i dunno about the code, but it is certainly slick and feature rich`
`21:34.46`	`wrs`	`now to try and remember the 100s of other mods i loved. ive been away for a while ;P`
`21:37.21`	`lalunas`	`./raid`
`21:47.01`	`Zeal`	`i don't like any addon that changes the layout or look of the bags. all i want is an addon that remembers and learns where i place items.`
`21:49.40`	`jrr`	`Zeal: wow`
`21:49.54`	`jrr`	`i need my bagnon/banknon`
`21:52.19`	`Zeal`	`all it really takes is either string saving, or a prior database of item types, with user overrides for each slot based on a string.`
`21:53.28`	`*** join/#wowwiki Coolniceronguy (i=Coolnice@S0106000c6e2b99db.cg.shawcable.net)`
`21:56.32`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, such addons exist`
`21:56.38`	`Kirkburn`	`I think Mr. Plow is one`
`21:57.17`	`Zeal`	`oh?`
`21:59.03`	`Zeal`	`doesn't appear to`
`22:11.46`	`*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`22:11.46`	`*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ`
`22:12.13`	`Hobinheim`	`editing a quasi popular template again =(`
`22:13.11`	`Zeal`	`which one this time?`
`22:13.31`	`Adys`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Zone_Navigation_Templates`
`22:13.46`	`Adys`	`if someone could help me with this :P`
`22:13.54`	`Adys`	`wiki slow as hell`
`22:15.26`	`Hobinheim`	`yeah....`
`22:15.31`	`Hobinheim`	`i was trying to auto do that`
`22:15.38`	`Hobinheim`	`but it didn't work as i expected =(`
`22:15.43`	`Hobinheim`	`dude just leave it and ill bot it`
`22:15.44`	`Hobinheim`	`some day`
`22:16.02`	`Adys`	`dont like leaving things :P`
`22:16.13`	`Hobinheim`	`i know`
`22:16.39`	`Hobinheim`	`anyway, made a note`
`22:16.40`	`Adys`	`nah no need to bother with a bot for that`
`22:17.05`	`Hobinheim`	`oh well =P`
`22:18.57`	`Zeal`	`whats wrong? :s`
`22:19.28`	`Hobinheim`	`just trying to make easier work of catting templates...`
`22:19.31`	`Adys`	`need the zone navigation templates in http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Navigation_Templates to be changed to Category:Zone Navigation Templates`
`22:20.00`	`*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-70-225.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`22:20.14`	`Hobinheim`	`hmm`
`22:20.21`	`Hobinheim`	`there's a user adding links to the bottom of lots of pages`
`22:20.33`	`Zeal`	`i see..`
`22:20.52`	`Hobinheim`	`seems legit... i guess`
`22:20.53`	`Zeal`	`oh? see also links?`
`22:21.19`	`Hobinheim`	`the links for mobs`
`22:21.22`	`Hobinheim`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20070105201024&limit=50&target=Thejeni`
`22:21.45`	`Zeal`	`ampwow map links`
`22:21.49`	`Tepetkhet`	`gotta go`
`22:21.50`	`Tepetkhet`	`Home.`
`22:22.08`	`Hobinheim`	`never heard of it`
`22:22.35`	`Zeal`	`aye, that's probably why he's doing it :P`
`22:22.36`	`equiraptor`	`I feel like I have... Not sure, but in a bad light...`
`22:22.54`	`equiraptor`	`But that's just something vague in the back of my head, and not to be trusted.`
`22:23.06`	`dotted`	`www.wowwiki.com/AmpWoW`
`22:23.24`	`Zeal`	`why i wanna see wowexposed listed as a blue tracker on the front page too tbh.. better than the others imo, certainly updates faster. but people don't realize it became that after the leaked info shut down it got.`
`22:23.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Majorly explanded: http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Talk_page_guidelines`
`22:23.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, link`
`22:23.48`	`Zeal`	`explanded? lol`
`22:23.54`	`Kirkburn`	`arf`
`22:23.55`	`Zeal`	`www.wowexposed.de`
`22:24.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Awful format :/`
`22:24.39`	`Zeal`	`i love it`
`22:24.58`	`Kirkburn`	`It shows so few!`
`22:25.17`	`Zeal`	`it's quick and easy, it's there for keeping up to date.`
`22:25.27`	`Zeal`	`wel there are categories, and you can search`
`22:25.59`	`dotted`	`i dont see any reason why it shouldn't be added`
`22:26.00`	`Hobinheim`	`i guess the edits are well intentioned...`
`22:26.07`	`Hobinheim`	`just wants his site to be more popular, i guess`
`22:26.19`	`Hobinheim`	`fishy. but not offensive. to me at least`
`22:26.29`	`Zeal`	`agreed Hobinheim`
`22:26.32`	`Hobinheim`	`thought i was gonna have to break out the [Ban Hammer] =)`
`22:26.38`	`Zeal`	`it's a decent resource it looks like.`
`22:26.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, add it here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum_tracker`
`22:26.46`	`dotted`	`Hobinheim where does it drop =O?`
`22:26.47`	`Zeal`	`it's like wowhead, but for maps :P`
`22:27.54`	`Hobinheim`	`on yo FACE!`
`22:28.19`	`dotted`	`wowhead is really cool now, just hope they will implement auction data for each realm - instead of WoW-wide auction data like Allakhazam have`
`22:28.53`	`equiraptor`	`Hrm... The ampwow maps won't load for me.`
`22:28.55`	`Zeal`	`god i hate � on the wiki.`
`22:29.02`	`equiraptor`	`Using firefox 2.mumble on windows.`
`22:29.22`	`Zeal`	`: /`
`22:29.48`	`equiraptor`	`IE tells me there's an error on the page. :)`
`22:29.52`	`dotted`	`lol Thejeni must have no life at all, he is adding maps to every damn mob in the game :p`
`22:29.57`	`equiraptor`	`And also doesn't load the map.`
`22:30.02`	`equiraptor`	`Think it's a bot?`
`22:30.11`	`dotted`	`equiraptor the DM map loaded fine for me`
`22:30.19`	`dotted`	`maybe`
`22:30.32`	`equiraptor`	`I get the loading screen, but never the map.`
`22:30.40`	`Zeal`	`why is Logo-horiz-260px.png being image linked to the main page on http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:About ?`
`22:30.45`	`Zeal`	`: /`
`22:30.46`	`equiraptor`	`I'm trying the frostsaber pride watchers, in case dungeons are special.`
`22:31.07`	`Hobinheim`	`do you have www in your URL`
`22:31.17`	`equiraptor`	`Yes`
`22:31.20`	`equiraptor`	`At least currently.`
`22:31.34`	`dotted`	`http://www.ampwow.com/wow/viewNewCreatures/10502-Lady+Illucia+Barov.php!default=map works for me`
`22:32.26`	`equiraptor`	`Not for me. Maybe it's the lame proxy at work.`
`22:32.55`	`dotted`	`Wowhead is also the only database website that is approved/promoted by Blizzard. <- Lol, howcome?`
`22:32.56`	`Zeal`	`: /`
`22:33.38`	`Zeal`	`because Thott is owned by gold sellers, and alla too more recently, and they both display google ads with gold selling and exploit links`
`22:33.54`	`dotted`	`ah`
`22:33.55`	`Zeal`	`wow head doesn't`
`22:33.59`	`Kirkburn`	`No, they don't`
`22:34.00`	`Zeal`	`dunno about toher sites though`
`22:34.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway, let's get onto this`
`22:34.07`	`Kirkburn`	`*let's NOT`
`22:34.32`	`dotted`	`aw i hate it when people correct them selves :(`
`22:34.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Neither Thott (nor Alla afaik) display gold selling links`
`22:34.47`	`Zeal`	`i've seen them on alla`
`22:34.57`	`*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`22:35.05`	`Zeal`	`thott i was fairly sure they did, but i could be wrong`
`22:35.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Not anymore`
`22:35.18`	`Zeal`	`regardless, their ownership is the issue :p`
`22:35.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Both have got rid of them entirely :)`
`22:35.52`	`Kirkburn`	`But yes, the ownership is the issue`
`22:35.56`	`Zeal`	`kk then`
`22:36.06`	`Zeal`	`alla still has too many ads though :P`
`22:36.24`	`Kirkburn`	`K, I've updated all the policy and guideline pages now`
`22:37.00`	`dotted`	`[Zeal]: because Thott is owned by gold sellers <- hmm any link on this?`
`22:37.18`	`*** join/#wowwiki Patrigan-Syldra (n=iron_pla@71.49-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`22:37.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`gevening`
`22:38.02`	`Zeal`	`http://wowexposed.de/?p=2653 rofl`
`22:38.25`	`Zeal`	`no link. it was found out pretty quickly through whois`
`22:38.51`	`dotted`	`aight`
`22:39.00`	`Zeal`	`few months into wow, it was big news. thne people just stopped caring really.`
`22:39.10`	`Zeal`	`i still try not to use thott : /`
`22:39.56`	`Zeal`	`http://www.ige.com/ they would be the ones woh own alla`
`22:39.58`	`Zeal`	`*who`
`22:40.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hmmm?`
`22:40.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`what we be discussing?`
`22:41.45`	`Zeal`	`unapproved database sites`
`22:41.47`	`dotted`	`ownership of that and allah`
`22:41.53`	`dotted`	`*thott`
`22:42.29`	`dotted`	`well the whois i just did didnt turn out anything usable :/`
`22:42.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hmmm`
`22:42.46`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you want to know who owns thottbot and allakhazam?`
`22:43.01`	`dotted`	`sure if you can proof it :)`
`22:43.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`http://www.allakhazam.com/Staff_Bios.html`
`22:43.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that's a start for allakhazam`
`22:44.04`	`Zeal`	`http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/15/161219`
`22:44.16`	`Zeal`	`only story i can find atm`
`22:44.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but why exactly do you want to know?`
`22:45.09`	`dotted`	`curiosity`
`22:45.23`	`Zeal`	`well then, essentially IGE owns both alla and thott`
`22:45.32`	`Zeal`	`just thott is hard to confirm anymore`
`22:46.51`	`dotted`	`Patrigan-Syldra what exactly is that page prooving, cant see it :/?`
`22:47.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nothing really`
`22:47.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`justa list of who works on allakhazam`
`22:47.40`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`from there you can start doing simple /whois`
`22:48.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but tbh, it wouldn't surprise me`
`22:48.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`considering both programs also check auction prizes...`
`22:48.28`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that allows them to fluctuate their gold prizes to the needs of the players`
`22:48.32`	`Zeal`	`http://www.corpnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1790&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0`
`22:48.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`though, in the end, what does it matter?`
`22:49.07`	`dotted`	`Patrigan-Syldra you cant use auction data for anything as it isnt seperated by realms`
`22:49.28`	`Zeal`	`that link goes through all the details about how the ownership has been established`
`22:51.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`dotted`
`22:51.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`allakhazam lists average auction data`
`22:51.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`creating this average shows what prizes you can put on gold for the best items ingame`
`22:52.06`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`do you really think it's such a coincidence that blizzard didn't add a lot of BoE world drop epics?`
`22:52.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`in BC that is`
`22:52.25`	`dotted`	`Well i have seen items go for 200g less than what allakhazam said was the average so you cant really use it for anything`
`22:52.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`even the Blacksmithing recipes for the BoP weapons which dropped at first have been made vendor buy`
`22:52.54`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`an average is good enough when deciding a prize for your gold`
`22:53.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you need to base your prizes on something`
`22:53.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if they see that 1g is worth a lot, they are gonna sell 1g for a lot`
`22:53.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`if they see it's worth nothing, they'rte gonna sell it for nothing`
`22:53.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`depending on that, they decide a price`
`22:54.18`	`dotted`	`but claiming allakhzam is owned by IGE or whatever becuase of that is kinda out of place imo`
`22:54.44`	`dotted`	`wowhead also gathers auction data with their client, not shown on their homepage (yet)`
`22:54.49`	`Zeal`	`alla themselves announced being bought by IGE`
`22:54.59`	`dotted`	`link :)`
`22:55.05`	`Zeal`	`look yourself :P`
`22:55.08`	`dotted`	`noes`
`22:55.12`	`dotted`	`cbb :p`
`22:56.01`	`*** join/#wowwiki Baggins (n=Baggins@adsl-69-225-0-102.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)`
`22:56.14`	`Baggins`	`Way to go Kirkburn.`
`22:56.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I didn't claim it`
`22:56.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I just said it would be interesting for a page like IGE to have acces to such pages`
`22:56.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, how so?`
`22:57.04`	`dotted`	`true`
`22:57.05`	`Baggins`	`Good job on cleaning up pages with stolen non cited material`
`22:57.47`	`dotted`	`Zeal my firefox died when i went into the news archive :(`
`22:58.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`my firefox is still loading XD`
`22:58.38`	`dotted`	`oh well at least it gives me another good reason for switching to wowheads database`
`22:58.40`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, oh, np :P`
`22:58.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`dotted`
`22:59.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`let's hope you can soon turn to WoWwiki database`
`22:59.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Kirkburn`
`22:59.12`	`dotted`	`Patrigan-Syldra nah`
`22:59.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`can you tell me a bit about the google ads`
`22:59.27`	`Kirkburn`	`I saw your comment earlier`
`22:59.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`dotted why not?`
`22:59.46`	`Zeal`	`http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=3;mid=114668646932202500;num=49;page=1#11466945482951525 dotted`
`22:59.53`	`dotted`	`Zeal thx`
`23:00.06`	`Zeal`	`i can't fidn the original news post though :/`
`23:00.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Kirkburn I sure hope so, do you think it's possible for a workaround? there are ways around the ads, by fixing them up, howeever it would require continuous updating of that part of text (as Google updates their ads)`
`23:00.31`	`dotted`	`Patrigan-Syldra well becuase i don't like a wiki for that kind of job`
`23:00.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`"because it's unreliable"?`
`23:01.04`	`dotted`	`no, just the user interface`
`23:01.16`	`dotted`	`allakhazam is just as unreliable`
`23:01.20`	`equiraptor`	`Hah! zam.com is owned by "domains by proxy"`
`23:01.37`	`Kirkburn`	`Patrigan-Syldra, the response about it was: "<vlad_> they may break the terms of service, but if blizzard wants to do something about them, they need to fix their game"`
`23:02.40`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`GAH! Kirkburn, what if I can offer another way of money income?`
`23:02.40`	`Kirkburn`	`It's a lot of work for him to sort out atm, with few benefits.`
`23:03.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Well, I see one major benefit, being able to join the blizzard fansite network, thus getting new news as the first to get the enw news`
`23:03.15`	`Kirkburn`	`sancus and vlad_ are jaded, cynical people =)`
`23:03.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Patrigan-Syldra, I know, we told him :)`
`23:03.51`	`Zeal`	`news first, linkage on the main site, better comunication, free stuff (bet keys).`
`23:03.58`	`Zeal`	`*beta`
`23:04.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Who knows ... it's up to him`
`23:04.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hmmmm`
`23:04.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`gah!`
`23:04.32`	`Kirkburn`	`We're not exactly in a bad position without any advertising anyway`
`23:04.37`	`Kirkburn`	`(not many websites can say that!)`
`23:04.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, making a post on the forums doesn't ahve much use either, cuz once a player points out those adds, they MUST lock or delete the thread...`
`23:04.52`	`Baggins`	`So I noticed that the World of Warcraft Official Strategy Guide also refrences the former Kingdom of Azeroth\`
`23:05.04`	`Baggins`	`as Azeroth in one section`
`23:05.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, can we, er, ignore it?`
`23:05.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Stormwind ftw ^^`
`23:05.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nah, we're not ina bad position, just sad that this 1 ad can block us from such information and pro position (in comparison to other resource websites)`
`23:05.24`	`Baggins`	`Hmm it was part of the timeline`
`23:05.29`	`Baggins`	`as it it used to be Azeroth`
`23:05.35`	`Baggins`	`same thing that APG does`
`23:05.39`	`Kirkburn`	`I know, but it's too confusaing`
`23:05.40`	`*** join/#wowwiki [GA]thejeni (n=thejeni@ppp-70-242-166-149.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)`
`23:05.42`	`Kirkburn`	`*confusing`
`23:05.45`	`Zeal`	`who in what?`
`23:05.47`	`Baggins`	`its not confusing, :p`
`23:05.50`	`Kirkburn`	`We've got a disambit type page anyway`
`23:05.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Baggins are you referring to the time that there was only 1 world?`
`23:05.58`	`Kirkburn`	`*disambig (gah!)`
`23:05.59`	`Baggins`	`the disambig page i sgone`
`23:06.00`	`Zeal`	`most kingdom names are used for more than the kingdoms..`
`23:06.07`	`Kirkburn`	`Wha?`
`23:06.13`	`Zeal`	`capitals, regions, world etc.`
`23:06.20`	`Baggins`	`ya aeleas made it Azreoth world and then has inline disambigs now`
`23:06.21`	`Kirkburn`	`The Kingdom of SW was once called the KD of Azeroth`
`23:06.24`	`dotted`	`"We are now owned by a company that owns a bunch of stuff, including IGE. They bought both of us" <- So Allak and Thott arent owned by IGE, but by another company that also owns IGE.`
`23:06.35`	`Kirkburn`	`dotted, yes`
`23:06.38`	`Zeal`	`yes dotted`
`23:06.49`	`dotted`	`could be worse then`
`23:06.49`	`Baggins`	`here is the quote from World of WArcraft timeline from the strat guide;`
`23:06.57`	`Kirkburn`	`aye`
`23:06.58`	`Zeal`	`but considering the people that own IGE are the people that own the parent company, it makes no difference.`
`23:07.06`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`23:07.16`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`show me the quote Baggins`
`23:07.18`	`Baggins`	`Internal struggles and the pressures of over-expansion cause the fragmentation of the Human Empire of Arathro into autonomous nations. Azeroth and Lordaeron are two.`
`23:07.21`	`Zeal`	`point is, all sitesi n that network support gold selling and other such services against the ToU`
`23:07.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that seems correct, what's the problem with it?`
`23:07.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, http://www.wowwiki.com/Kingdom_of_Stormwind#Kingdom_name`
`23:07.59`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Zealthere's a reason why those sites aren't in the blizzard fasnite network`
`23:08.02`	`Baggins`	`well I'm just pointing out that it wasn't just APG that kept hte idea that hte old kingdom was named Azeroth`
`23:08.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Silly them :P`
`23:08.14`	`Zeal`	`i know Patrigan-Syldra, that's how the topic started :P`
`23:08.19`	`Baggins`	`Even WoW literature has it as well`
`23:08.36`	`Zeal`	`i still considering it the kingdom of Azeroth`
`23:08.44`	`Zeal`	`the maps listed it as such too iirc`
`23:08.51`	`Zeal`	`*consider`
`23:08.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Well`
`23:08.56`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`IF you want to know`
`23:08.57`	`Baggins`	`After five grueling years of attrition, the Horde finally conquers the nations of Azeroth and Khaz Modan,`
`23:08.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Thottbot does not directly support gold selling, even if it is owned by them`
`23:09.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`long before the maelstrom was there`
`23:09.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`there was only 1 continent`
`23:09.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`called Azeroth`
`23:09.22`	`Kirkburn`	`(and neither does allakhazam for that matter, stop suggesting they promote it)`
`23:09.25`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that is why everyone refers to the game as the world of Azeroth`
`23:09.32`	`Baggins`	`the difference is nation of Azeroth, the continent of Azeroth and the world of Azeroth`
`23:09.40`	`Zeal`	`yes but the policy of it's parent company does support it Kirkburn, thus any information provided to those sites, and evne it's use, is beneficial to gold selling.`
`23:09.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`it actually isn't`
`23:09.50`	`Baggins`	`Yes it is according to warcraft 3 manual`
`23:09.59`	`Baggins`	`and later discussed in APG as well`
`23:10.02`	`Baggins`	`and Lands of Conflict`
`23:10.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the continent of Azeroth is what it is, that 1 massive continent`
`23:10.19`	`Baggins`	`Yes the continent is the easiest one to distinguish`
`23:10.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, that's life. But don't get business arrangements mixed up with individual company policies/ideas`
`23:10.42`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the continent is actually exactly the same afaik as the world of azeroth`
`23:10.43`	`Zeal`	`the parent company takes on the policies of it's children`
`23:10.46`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but since it got split up`
`23:11.01`	`equiraptor`	`I had been told that the Eastern Kingdoms could also be cold Azeroth, but that in WoW they're referred to as Eastern Kindgoms to distinguish them from the world/planet named Azeroth...`
`23:11.02`	`Baggins`	`the "nation" as discussed in several sources includes most of the continent except for like Stranglethorn and a few other areas`
`23:11.19`	`equiraptor`	`But perhaps that would be like calling Africa Pangea, just because it was once a part of Pangea.`
`23:11.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Baggins normally also the whole northern part`
`23:11.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, let's not continue. We're both arguing the same stuff and it's been talked about soo much :P Azeroth ftw`
`23:11.39`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`as that is Lordaeron`
`23:11.43`	`Baggins`	`except Khaz Modan`
`23:11.48`	`Baggins`	`Khaz Modan is its own continent as well`
`23:11.55`	`Baggins`	`according to Lands of Conflict`
`23:12.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Different things have been called Azeroth at different times, yes`
`23:12.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hmmm yeah, dwarven lands`
`23:12.08`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`though`
`23:12.08`	`Baggins`	`the eastern kingdoms are split into 3 continents`
`23:12.16`	`Baggins`	`Azeroth continent is everything south of khaz modan`
`23:12.18`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`call it regions please`
`23:12.26`	`sancus`	`the only downside to being owned by IGE is their corporate administration is obscenely incompetent :(`
`23:12.29`	`Baggins`	`that's what the book called them :p`
`23:12.33`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`because a continent is nothing more but a massive block of land`
`23:12.40`	`Zeal`	`Azeroth the world, Azeroth the continent, Azeroth the kingdom, Stormwing the captial. Lordaeron the continent, Lordaeron the kingdom, Lordaeron the captial.`
`23:12.46`	`Baggins`	`its kind of like europe vs. eurasia`
`23:12.46`	`Kirkburn`	`sancus, lol`
`23:12.50`	`Baggins`	`*and asia`
`23:12.58`	`Zeal`	`*Stormwind`
`23:13.01`	`Baggins`	`asia and europe are considered two continents`
`23:13.10`	`Baggins`	`except for peopel who want ot consider it Eurasia`
`23:13.16`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`23:13.21`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`23:13.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`myeah, I see where you are getting at`
`23:13.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Y'know, that's a good point`
`23:13.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Lordaeron is a still continent though. Um. Sort of.`
`23:13.46`	`sancus`	`Kirk: i'm entirely serious, I have some experience with them from when I worked for thott :P`
`23:13.50`	`Baggins`	`The truth is Patrigan to a point you are right, But the other view is right as well LOL`
`23:13.54`	`Zeal`	`basically, humans suck at naming things ;)`
`23:14.00`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`23:14.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yup!`
`23:14.06`	`sancus`	`jfc it took them forever to get employment contracts done`
`23:14.06`	`Kirkburn`	`sancus, sounds like fun :)`
`23:14.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`and blizzard reflected human lack of being able to name perfectly`
`23:14.23`	`Baggins`	`let's not even get into the split of three kalimdar continents LOL`
`23:14.25`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`23:14.28`	`Kirkburn`	`sancus, what did you do for Thott?`
`23:14.40`	`Zeal`	`well yeah, it's all really Kalimdor :P`
`23:14.47`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Baggins afaik for those, they actually got their name from the now sunken Northern Kalimdor`
`23:14.52`	`Baggins`	`except to some it is suthern, northern, and central LOL`
`23:15.28`	`Kirkburn`	`aaah, so many lols! :)`
`23:15.28`	`Baggins`	`actually I just got ht ename for Lands of Mystery`
`23:15.28`	`sancus`	`just various perl programming and stuff, and started on a new site he wanted to build`
`23:15.28`	`Baggins`	`as that's what Brann calls them LOL`
`23:15.28`	`sancus`	`but quit when I got a job offer at mozilla`
`23:15.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`pffft...`
`23:15.29`	`Kirkburn`	`sancus, good choice =)`
`23:15.32`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`confusing lore >.>`
`23:15.33`	`Zeal`	`and the fact the world is called Azeroth is just human influence and convenience. much like how draeneor is called draenor by the orcs, evne though relaly it would have been named by the Draenei much later.`
`23:15.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`think I'll give a call to Metzen, he might know`
`23:15.52`	`Baggins`	`Azeroth probably comes form the human's old name of Azotha`
`23:15.52`	`dotted`	`hmm i find thottbot to be the worst of all databases :/`
`23:16.01`	`Kirkburn`	`(nothing against thott, but a cooler thing to work on!)`
`23:16.01`	`Zeal`	`indeed Baggins`
`23:16.01`	`sancus`	`his new site idea was quite cool, but I cant really talk about it heh`
`23:16.12`	`Baggins`	`its just never been confirmed only implied`
`23:16.17`	`Baggins`	`at least Arathor`
`23:16.22`	`Baggins`	`if not azotha`
`23:16.34`	`Kirkburn`	`sancus, intriguing!`
`23:16.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`kind of strange to discuss lore like this...`
`23:16.43`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`tbh...`
`23:16.44`	`Baggins`	`so did you know that earthen are considered "Series Two"`
`23:16.48`	`Zeal`	`basically it means Humans & Draenei > Lore ;)`
`23:16.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`In the end, it is what Metzen wants it to be right?`
`23:16.54`	`Baggins`	`because "Series One" was a failure`
`23:16.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, yeah I recall something like that`
`23:17.10`	`Baggins`	`Series One being hte trogs`
`23:17.15`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah, of course!`
`23:17.20`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Baggins isn't that explained in that quest at the end of uldaman?`
`23:17.37`	`Kirkburn`	`Not only that but dwarves are actually made of stone`
`23:17.40`	`Baggins`	`What was it called during War of hte Ancients?`
`23:17.44`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`always found that a very intriguing quest`
`23:17.51`	`Baggins`	`dwarves are made of flesh`
`23:17.53`	`Kirkburn`	`What was what called?`
`23:17.53`	`Baggins`	`but can turn into stone`
`23:18.00`	`Baggins`	`its an ability`
`23:18.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`nah, they actually origin from stone`
`23:18.08`	`Baggins`	`they evolved form stone yes`
`23:18.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Stone turned into a flesh-like 'material'`
`23:18.10`	`Zeal`	`well i love the misconception that people think troggs came for mthe earthern we know of. not an earlier version of the earthern.`
`23:18.19`	`Kirkburn`	`It's not 'real' flesh, but appears like it`
`23:18.31`	`Baggins`	`ya and according to biblical legend we are mad eout of earth LOL`
`23:18.44`	`Baggins`	`Brann says its flesh :p`
`23:18.54`	`Kirkburn`	`He would =)`
`23:19.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Baggins`
`23:19.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Brann is after all just a scientist`
`23:19.15`	`Kirkburn`	`<Baggins> What was it called during War of hte Ancients? <-- what did you mean?`
`23:19.21`	`Baggins`	`the world`
`23:19.23`	`Baggins`	`what as it called`
`23:19.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`We shouldn't take everything exactly as Brann says it is`
`23:19.33`	`Baggins`	`what do night elves call it`
`23:19.35`	`Zeal`	`more an explorer than a scientist.`
`23:19.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`don't forget he discoveres, but he can make mistakes`
`23:19.50`	`Baggins`	`Well warcraft 3 manual also says explains it to be flesh into stone form :p`
`23:19.52`	`Zeal`	`Brann's great for IC theorizing`
`23:19.58`	`Zeal`	`that's about it.`
`23:20.12`	`Baggins`	`as does Shadows and Light`
`23:20.22`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`everyone seems to think Brann is all knowing, but Blizzard might WANT to implement mistakes in Brann his theories`
`23:20.32`	`Baggins`	`there is hints that humans and dwarves may be from similar hertiage`
`23:20.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`that would make Brann more realistic`
`23:20.37`	`Zeal`	`i'm sure there already is mistakes in them :P`
`23:20.46`	`Baggins`	`and gnomes too`
`23:20.51`	`Baggins`	`in the various books`
`23:20.53`	`Baggins`	`its not just brann`
`23:20.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, don't recall from WotA`
`23:21.13`	`Zeal`	`hm.. when did the earthern come out, post sundering?`
`23:21.25`	`Baggins`	`earthen helped pre-sundering`
`23:21.35`	`Baggins`	`in WOTA`
`23:21.38`	`Zeal`	`oh wait`
`23:21.39`	`Zeal`	`nvm`
`23:21.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`did the number of articles actually drop?`
`23:21.52`	`Zeal`	`well yea,h when did they come out as dwarves?`
`23:21.56`	`Baggins`	`and night elves speculate that they are related somehow`
`23:22.02`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I can recall 22500+`
`23:22.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`now it's just 22200+`
`23:22.17`	`Baggins`	`the exact date when they come out as dwarves is not listed`
`23:22.23`	`Zeal`	`kk`
`23:22.38`	`Baggins`	`but if they are related that means that most flesh based races may created from stone`
`23:22.53`	`Baggins`	`plus dwarves and humans can breed`
`23:23.02`	`Zeal`	`well anyways, trend roughly dictates mutation is from magic or divine intervention. but obvious dwarves hanging out on the shore of the well isn't possible :P`
`23:23.06`	`Baggins`	`there is one example of someone with distant dwarven blood`
`23:23.16`	`Zeal`	`*obviously`
`23:23.31`	`Baggins`	`well Horde Player's guide hints that evol;ution of earthen to dwarves may have been 100,000 years`
`23:23.33`	`Zeal`	`cool Baggins, assumed, but didn't know :P`
`23:23.50`	`Baggins`	`let me get you the women's name if I can`
`23:23.58`	`Baggins`	`the one that has dwarven blood`
`23:24.20`	`Zeal`	`i'm intrigued by what is said when the helfs and humans first meet`
`23:24.29`	`Zeal`	`about how their have an affinity to magic or w/e`
`23:24.40`	`Zeal`	`to me, it implies magical mutation.`
`23:25.08`	`Baggins`	`well dwarves were supposed to have mages in the roiginal version of WoW. staffs of the dwarven magi still drop LOL`
`23:25.17`	`Zeal`	`i hold judgement on gnomes though, because their bg sucks.`
`23:25.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Patrigan-Syldra, yes, a whole load of articles were deleted at one point`
`23:25.34`	`Kirkburn`	`(on purpose!)`
`23:25.34`	`Baggins`	`their background is scattered across several sources :p`
`23:25.35`	`Zeal`	`was the lore given for that Baggins?`
`23:25.50`	`Zeal`	`dwarven mages that is.`
`23:25.58`	`Baggins`	`besides dark irons?`
`23:26.01`	`Baggins`	`probably not`
`23:26.09`	`Baggins`	`manual sort of hinted at a reason`
`23:26.14`	`Baggins`	`but it was generic`
`23:26.23`	`Zeal`	`well it is scattered, but it also has nothing to do with their affinity to the arcane or where they come from : /`
`23:26.30`	`Baggins`	`plus runemasters`
`23:26.36`	`Baggins`	`its arcane based`
`23:26.42`	`Zeal`	`yeah, thats what i was thinking`
`23:26.46`	`Baggins`	`although more natural version of arcane`
`23:26.53`	`Baggins`	`titanish arcane`
`23:27.04`	`Baggins`	`drawn from natural ley lines and what not`
`23:27.08`	`Zeal`	`well arcane needs to be redefined imo.`
`23:27.29`	`Baggins`	`Jesi Falrevere`
`23:27.33`	`Baggins`	`from Lands of Mystery`
`23:27.34`	`Zeal`	`cool`
`23:27.41`	`Baggins`	`she is said to ahve distant dwarven heritage`
`23:27.47`	`Baggins`	`and it shows up in her facial features`
`23:28.00`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Kirkburn`
`23:28.10`	`Zeal`	`i've proposed the idea of dwarven shaman as use of geomancers/runemasters before. cloest thing to it really. but meh.`
`23:28.13`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you think vlad_ will accept it if I can offer a better source of income?`
`23:28.18`	`Zeal`	`*use as`
`23:28.26`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`or are there other reasons to why vlad_ wants the adds to stay?`
`23:28.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Patrigan-Syldra, I can only suggest asking him!`
`23:28.37`	`Baggins`	`dwarven shaman are wildhammer ;)`
`23:28.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`myeah, perhaps I should...`
`23:28.55`	`Zeal`	`i know, but shamanism shows off earthern roots well`
`23:28.58`	`Zeal`	`imo atleast`
`23:29.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`They don't really bother me, but it bothers me that they prevent a big expansion of the wiki...`
`23:29.06`	`Baggins`	`as per Lands of Conflict, and Alliance player's guide, and Alliance & horde compendium`
`23:29.12`	`Zeal`	`and would be a good link up for wildhammers`
`23:29.30`	`Baggins`	`runemasters are more Ironforge I think`
`23:29.43`	`Baggins`	`at least it was implied`
`23:29.49`	`Zeal`	`i know`
`23:29.57`	`Baggins`	`the dark irons were more sorcererors`
`23:30.03`	`Zeal`	`i'm just suggesting there be a better link up to earthern and all dwarves.`
`23:30.09`	`*** join/#wowwiki cr (n=chatzill@c9063734.virtua.com.br)`
`23:30.11`	`Baggins`	`heh heh`
`23:30.21`	`cronix`	`hello all`
`23:30.25`	`Zeal`	`they're trying to rediscover their roots, seems good to me.`
`23:30.27`	`Baggins`	`did you read the Ironforge Clan article?`
`23:30.34`	`Kirkburn`	`cronix, hullo`
`23:30.40`	`Zeal`	`nope, but i shall now`
`23:31.17`	`Baggins`	`drek'thar's blindness interesting`
`23:33.09`	`cronix`	`how come ppl can farm soo much rep so fast? lol im still stuck on 5k since new patch`
`23:33.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`rep with?`
`23:33.20`	`Baggins`	`cause they have no life`
`23:33.26`	`Baggins`	`and/or have people play for them`
`23:33.30`	`cronix`	`i was meaning honour points`
`23:33.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`ow`
`23:33.41`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`do AV`
`23:33.45`	`Baggins`	`they have to pretty much be playing all day`
`23:33.54`	`Baggins`	`all night`
`23:33.55`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`gives shitloads of honor nowadays and is finished normally within 10 minutes`
`23:34.10`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`just the whole group zerg the opposite base`
`23:34.23`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`my sis had an average of 2.5k a day and she played justa few hours`
`23:34.33`	`Zeal`	`god i hate spoilers`
`23:34.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`one time`
`23:34.51`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I've seen both factions just running past eachother without touching eachother`
`23:34.59`	`cronix`	`hehe`
`23:35.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`strange sight, that's for sure`
`23:35.17`	`cronix`	`there should be some quests in bg so we could get more honour points`
`23:35.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Lag incoming!`
`23:35.59`	`Kirkburn`	`(updating the bc templatE)`
`23:36.53`	`Kirkburn`	`ladeedaa`
`23:37.00`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`rexxar is now in Burning Edge Mountains?`
`23:37.31`	`Zeal`	`http://www.fuckedcompany.com/den/ the origins of IGE nsfw :p`
`23:37.50`	`Baggins`	`only in burning edge mountains?`
`23:37.54`	`Baggins`	`I thought he showed up due to a quest`
`23:38.06`	`Baggins`	`kind of like thrall`
`23:38.11`	`Zeal`	`he should be in both places at once afaik`
`23:38.17`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`23:38.19`	`Zeal`	`unlike Kazzak`
`23:38.24`	`Baggins`	`although they have moved a few characters`
`23:38.32`	`Kirkburn`	`Crud, I broke the BC template, more lag!`
`23:39.19`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well`
`23:39.22`	`Zeal`	`�_�`
`23:39.23`	`Zeal`	`lol`
`23:39.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`there are more mobs moved now`
`23:39.34`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`like the advisor of thrall`
`23:39.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`the big orc in hellfire peninsula`
`23:39.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`afaik he is no longer in thralls room`
`23:40.18`	`Baggins`	`yyes`
`23:40.25`	`Baggins`	`I confirmed that a few weeks ago`
`23:40.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`so hey, wouldnb't surprise me if rexxar is now there aswell`
`23:40.33`	`Baggins`	`and updated the webpage, ;)`
`23:40.36`	`Zeal`	`basically, if they're not quest related, they get moved :p`
`23:40.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`unless he starts his quests from the old place`
`23:40.49`	`Baggins`	`he was quest related`
`23:40.53`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`he was quest related, no?`
`23:40.53`	`Baggins`	`his quest just got moved`
`23:40.57`	`Baggins`	`to another person`
`23:41.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`ah lol ^^`
`23:41.08`	`Baggins`	`smae with old guy in stranglethorn`
`23:41.08`	`Zeal`	`ah kk`
`23:41.13`	`Zeal`	`that works too`
`23:41.14`	`Baggins`	`his son now sits there`
`23:41.15`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well, I can see them moving the Ony Preq aswell`
`23:41.30`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`23:41.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yeah and he crashed with his plane :p`
`23:41.40`	`Baggins`	`worst thing though is that in lore rexxar is deeply tied to that`
`23:41.48`	`Baggins`	`in all sources`
`23:41.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`why?`
`23:42.08`	`Zeal`	`http://wow.azzor.com/445/truth_about_IGE.php well there is your full report on IGE ;)`
`23:42.17`	`Baggins`	`thanks`
`23:42.31`	`Baggins`	`oh that's gold report`
`23:42.50`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`hmmm`
`23:42.56`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`he does look shitloads better now XD`
`23:42.58`	`Baggins`	`well one thing you need a scary guy to run around desolace`
`23:43.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`More WC3 like ^^`
`23:43.08`	`Baggins`	`with his bear`
`23:43.28`	`Baggins`	`scare the alliance ;)`
`23:43.44`	`Baggins`	`it adds a bit of atmoshpere to the zones he wanders through`
`23:43.52`	`Baggins`	`he is hard to find`
`23:44.57`	`Baggins`	`It shows progression to the storyline for low level characters and later when they reach outland`
`23:45.48`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`myeah, though, having the same person in 2places...`
`23:45.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Um, you're going to hate me, but ... more lag incoming ^^`
`23:46.02`	`Baggins`	`there are other examples of two people in two places`
`23:46.05`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Blizz did that once before, with the mightiest of all orcs...`
`23:46.06`	`Kirkburn`	`infobot, save me`
`23:46.09`	`infobot`	`ACTION runs into a burning building and saves kirkburn from certain death. Is that enough?`
`23:46.09`	`Baggins`	`jaina can be in two places`
`23:46.10`	`Baggins`	`thrall can be in two places`
`23:46.15`	`Baggins`	`thrall will hang around for an hour`
`23:46.17`	`Baggins`	`in outland`
`23:46.18`	`Kirkburn`	`infobot, no`
`23:46.19`	`infobot`	`YES`
`23:46.26`	`Kirkburn`	`infobot, yes`
`23:46.28`	`infobot`	`You don't say!`
`23:46.38`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well...`
`23:46.52`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I still loved High Overlord Saurfang ^^`
`23:47.03`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Literally DAYS he was splitted`
`23:47.05`	`Baggins`	`I think he should have stayed there`
`23:47.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Zeal, I've made the BC template smaller and simpler`
`23:47.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Tyrande btw :p`
`23:47.28`	`Kirkburn`	`It still categorises for the moment`
`23:47.33`	`Baggins`	`did anyone ever get the complete conversation with him and the other generals?`
`23:47.53`	`Kirkburn`	`brb`
`23:48.19`	`Baggins`	`onyxia can be in two places at once LOL`
`23:48.29`	`Baggins`	`Jaina can be in two places at once dependent on a certain quest line`
`23:48.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`23:48.43`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Onyxia is actually the worst off all XD`
`23:48.52`	`Baggins`	`Victor Nefarion can be in two places at once :p`
`23:48.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`She's ALWAYS in 2 places, but not only that, she also shifts size and looks`
`23:49.04`	`Baggins`	`heh heh`
`23:49.09`	`Baggins`	`she used to be a drake`
`23:49.12`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Nefarius is doubtable`
`23:49.17`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`he depends a bit`
`23:49.26`	`Baggins`	`two instances have him is what I mean`
`23:49.29`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`yeah`
`23:49.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Hmm, we need a notice for lag bursts:`
`23:49.36`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`but there it's still believable`
`23:49.39`	`dotted`	`well the worst is probably Ironforge Guard, god damn he is all over the place :/`
`23:49.51`	`Kirkburn`	`"Some bastard is editing a popular template. Shoot him!"`
`23:49.57`	`Baggins`	`but ya ony used to be a one of those humanoid drakes`
`23:50.08`	`Baggins`	`she now appears as a mini version of her normal form`
`23:50.25`	`Baggins`	`LOL`
`23:50.44`	`Baggins`	`Does tieron show up in two places?`
`23:50.50`	`Baggins`	`I mean Tierion`
`23:50.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggins, she does?`
`23:50.54`	`Baggins`	`ya`
`23:50.59`	`Baggins`	`I was suprised`
`23:51.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Know when that changed?`
`23:51.07`	`Baggins`	`it was change din patch 1.11 or so`
`23:51.11`	`Baggins`	`maybe 12`
`23:51.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Cool`
`23:51.25`	`Baggins`	`she litearlly takes up the entire room for about 10 seconds`
`23:51.26`	`dotted`	`http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=12756`
`23:51.30`	`Baggins`	`swats at the guards`
`23:52.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`better this way`
`23:52.17`	`Baggins`	`Let's not go into the strange effects of leveling and such. You have to kill all of SM at level 30`
`23:52.29`	`Baggins`	`and yet warriors go back there at 60`
`23:52.44`	`Baggins`	`and argen dawn speaks as if the people are still alive`
`23:53.05`	`Zeal`	`"IGE continues picking up executives from Yahoo! and Vivendi Universal (owners of Blizzard) (press page)" ouch`
`23:53.07`	`Baggins`	`*warriors go back there at 60 with the sword`
`23:54.03`	`Baggins`	`to talk to the son of Mograine`
`23:54.04`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Once, when High Overlord Saurfang one-man raided Ironforge, he thought it was too easy, and wanted to try Stormwind instead. So he charged his way straight through the mountain. This created the tunnel later utilized by the gnomes when they built the Deeprun Tram. ! Explains all!`
`23:54.23`	`Baggins`	`lol`
`23:54.24`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well the son got ressed once, so why not 2 times?`
`23:54.31`	`Baggins`	`lol`
`23:55.10`	`Baggins`	`Well its one of those things that leaves the question did an event like that ever actually occur.`
`23:55.32`	`Zeal`	`nah, it just leaves the questions of when does that event occur`
`23:55.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`well that's lmore for you my friend`
`23:55.38`	`Zeal`	`*question`
`23:55.45`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`don't think about it, deal with it`
`23:55.56`	`Baggins`	`that's why we have the WoW template`
`23:56.24`	`Baggins`	`for lore that is from WoW but no other source has gone into`
`23:56.54`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`Hmmm`
`23:57.01`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`wonder how much damage saurfang deals nowadays`
`23:57.07`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`I remember him doing shitloads of damage`
`23:57.11`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`with 1 hit ofc`
`23:57.29`	`Baggins`	`Wow's timeline is very hard to follow`
`23:57.35`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`you could stealth in and use a gnomish MC cap on him XD`
`23:57.37`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`loved that ^^`
`23:57.44`	`Baggins`	`some events have not yet occured in recorded history`
`23:57.59`	`Baggins`	`hints of them just starting have reached alliance for example`
`23:58.21`	`Zeal`	`indeed`
`23:58.23`	`Baggins`	`such as Zandali landing in Stranglethorn to get heroes to attack ZG`
`23:58.38`	`Zeal`	`hold judgement until the end of wow.`
`23:58.45`	`Baggins`	`the sunken temple events have occured already`
`23:58.46`	`Zeal`	`cos luckily, wow is static`
`23:58.55`	`Baggins`	`not entirely static`
`23:59.06`	`Baggins`	`stupid things that arne't static`
`23:59.20`	`Zeal`	`oh?`
`23:59.33`	`Baggins`	`like son of Hemet Nesingwary Jr. saying his father has recenlty left`
`23:59.40`	`Baggins`	`*son of Hemet Nesingwary`
`23:59.57`	`Patrigan-Syldra`	`XD`
`23:59.58`	`Baggins`	`Jr, states that his father has recently left for outland`

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