| 00:12.08 | *** join/#webos-internals badfrog|zzzzzzzz (~quassel@173-106-142-113.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 00:18.20 | rrix | sanesto123: ssh localhost? |
| 00:26.16 | *** join/#webos-internals CTLAdvance|2 (~kvirc@cpe-74-76-183-96.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 00:27.08 | sanesto123 | rrix: i want to connect to ubuntu chroot |
| 00:27.16 | sanesto123 | rrix: not to the webos |
| 00:27.27 | rrix | So you run ssh from with in the chroot and you ssh to localhost |
| 00:27.29 | sanesto123 | rrix: the problem is that ubuntu has the same ip as webos |
| 00:27.40 | rrix | That's not a problem |
| 00:27.52 | rrix | They share the same network interface. |
| 00:28.22 | sanesto123 | rris: but if they share the same network interface how the pc will make the difference between then |
| 00:28.31 | rrix | There is no difference |
| 00:28.47 | rrix | If you have ssh running in webos, you run it on a different port in the chroot |
| 00:28.54 | sanesto123 | but if i have an openssh installed on webos and openssh installed on ubuntu chroot |
| 00:28.55 | rrix | and you just connect to that port |
| 00:29.16 | sanesto123 | wen i try to connect to the ip of ubuntuchrrot\ |
| 00:29.24 | sanesto123 | the pc connect to webos |
| 00:29.33 | sanesto123 | cz they have the same ip |
| 00:29.47 | scorche | sanesto123: so change the port ssh listens on |
| 00:29.57 | rrix | They are the same network interface, you just have it listen on a different port. |
| 00:30.04 | rrix | and then you connect to that port |
| 00:30.07 | sanesto123 | oh ok, thank you |
| 00:30.24 | rrix | https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/serverguide/C/openssh-server.html |
| 00:30.26 | sanesto123 | another question, is there a way to get rid of the keyboard in ubuntu |
| 00:30.44 | *** join/#webos-internals sugardave (~sugardave@cpe-72-177-94-197.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 00:30.46 | rrix | Set the keyboard size to Off in Tweaks |
| 00:30.47 | sanesto123 | other than tweaks |
| 00:30.52 | rrix | No |
| 00:31.01 | sanesto123 | ok thank you |
| 00:31.13 | directhex | x11 doesn't like the display size resizing unexpectedly, and an overlay would be obnoxious to use |
| 00:32.47 | rrix | directhex: someone just needs to implement randr ;) |
| 00:33.38 | directhex | rrix: yeah, but it'd be painful to use with the bottom half of the screen disappearing and reappearing a lot |
| 00:33.53 | rrix | definitely |
| 00:34.10 | rrix | I'm not saying it's a good solution, just a solution ;) |
| 00:34.19 | directhex | what we really need is rotate support! 8D |
| 00:34.33 | rrix | I want compositing! |
| 00:34.46 | directhex | portrait is the only way to use debian |
| 00:34.50 | rrix | need a desktop cube to show to all the androidfaces |
| 00:35.11 | rrix | never got desktop cube |
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| 00:39.24 | *** join/#webos-internals webOSquire (~wircer@pool-96-239-116-186.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:39.51 | webOSquire | Evening, all. |
| 00:40.07 | webOSquire | First time connecting in via my TouchPad. BT keyboard makes it nice and easy. |
| 00:43.37 | LarrySteeze | woah |
| 00:43.50 | wrea | ? |
| 00:44.03 | LarrySteeze | Nothing...just never seen webosquire anywhere except twitter :P |
| 00:44.30 | LarrySteeze | or somehow never noticed him in this chat...must not get on at the same time usually |
| 00:44.43 | *** part/#webos-internals webOSquire (~wircer@pool-96-239-116-186.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:44.48 | wrea | Well, I hardly frequent twitter, so.. |
| 00:44.50 | Dudds | my bt keyboard experience on the touchpad is the worst ever :/ |
| 00:44.52 | wrea | And you scared him off |
| 00:44.55 | LarrySteeze | whoops |
| 00:45.06 | *** join/#webos-internals webOSquire (~wircer@pool-96-239-116-186.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:45.06 | Dudds | it randomly doesn't shift properly and drops keys |
| 00:45.26 | LarrySteeze | webOSquire: Sorry. Didn't mean to scare you off! |
| 00:45.47 | LarrySteeze | Anyone here used the Navit Maps application? |
| 00:45.54 | webOSquire | You didn't. I haven't used wIRC much; zigged when I should have zagged changing cards. |
| 00:46.24 | webOSquire | LarrySteeze: I've used Navit, at least until I got NDrive on my Pre2. Worked relatively well. |
| 00:46.43 | LarrySteeze | I am referring to the app actually called "Navit Maps" |
| 00:48.53 | webOSquire | @LarrySteeze: Oh! No, back when I tried Navit, I had to manually find and install the maps I needed. |
| 00:49.40 | *** join/#webos-internals jtrucks (~jtrucks@freenode/staff/lopsa.board.jtrucks) |
| 00:49.50 | LarrySteeze | Gotcha. I never had a need for it before...but the navit maps appears to be a bit messed up for me. It downloads to 100%, but never completes the download |
| 00:56.24 | rwhitby | webOSquire: see /msg window |
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| 01:35.01 | *** join/#webos-internals summatusmentis (~summatusm@109.169.58.113) |
| 01:37.05 | summatusmentis | Has there been any work done to map the esc character to something on the BT keyboard? |
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| 02:00.53 | dtzWill | rrix: is COMPOSITE not already enabled? huh, thought it was. |
| 02:01.06 | dtzWill | not accel'd, but thought it was supported. |
| 02:01.34 | dtzWill | directhex: and yeah i'm not super fond of constantly resizing X, but idk a better solution. |
| 02:01.46 | dtzWill | summatusmentis: someone figured out how to get luna to stop eating it |
| 02:01.57 | dtzWill | summatusmentis: so that *any* event is given via SDL to X. |
| 02:02.29 | summatusmentis | dtzWill: oh? that's good to hear, when can I use it? :) |
| 02:02.32 | dtzWill | that was the preferred solution, the other was we stopped using SDL as our input source and grabbed key events from the kernel directly or so |
| 02:03.08 | dtzWill | summatusmentis: not sure, he was gonna document it but then i had to run. as soon as how to make luna not eat it is public ifnormation i'll push xserver suport for it |
| 02:03.21 | dtzWill | LunohoD: you around? :) |
| 02:03.34 | dtzWill | you mentioned you need a slightly patched version of qmap or something--do you have any details? :) |
| 02:03.56 | rrix | dtzWill: I havne't actually tried :) |
| 02:04.17 | *** join/#webos-internals dev0 (~dgm_077@port-92-206-16-30.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:04.27 | summatusmentis | dtzWill: well, neat. That's I think _the_ last thing stopping me from using my TP full time as a mobile device |
| 02:04.43 | summatusmentis | vim is so integral in what I do |
| 02:05.03 | dtzWill | summatusmentis: control-c works decently well for changing vim modes |
| 02:05.12 | dtzWill | but i definitely understand the muscle memory for escape xD :) |
| 02:05.12 | ka6sox | ewww |
| 02:05.39 | dtzWill | ka6sox: well, it's a solution! not my fault luna selfishly keeps certain key events all to itself :( |
| 02:05.43 | summatusmentis | the muscle memory thing is the biggest issue |
| 02:05.52 | ka6sox | dtzWill, I didn't say it was your fault... |
| 02:05.58 | ka6sox | its just UBE. |
| 02:06.31 | dtzWill | ka6sox: ube? |
| 02:06.34 | dtzWill | ugly beyond expression? |
| 02:06.35 | dtzWill | lol |
| 02:06.51 | dtzWill | oh, 'bue'? "bad user experience"? |
| 02:07.00 | dtzWill | (I'm not familiar with that either, guessing)( |
| 02:07.17 | ka6sox | Ugly But Effective. |
| 02:08.24 | *** join/#webos-internals noradtux|away (~noradtux@2002:5ce0:3107::1) |
| 02:08.38 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v noradtux] by ChanServ |
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| 02:10.56 | nightburn | is it bad if i submit 2 updates to a patch before the previous update shows up in the feed? |
| 02:12.33 | summatusmentis | dtzWill: alright, ctrl+c works well enough in the interim, thanks for the info, I didn't know you could do that |
| 02:14.16 | dtzWill | summatusmentis: np. you can also map other things to 'esc'--some vim users feel reaching to 'esc' periodically breaks workflow more than they'd like so hop modes slightly differently. anyway just mentioning that so that if that sounds intersting you can look it up online as using vim w/o escape is a useful use care for different reasons sometimes :) |
| 02:15.39 | *** join/#webos-internals divStar (~divStar@DSL01.83.171.187.150.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 02:15.49 | summatusmentis | interesting. I suppose it makes sense that vim users would have a way to switch modes that entails not using esc. I'm always caught offguard by how stuck on customization some people are |
| 02:16.11 | rwhitby | Pre 3 internals: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rwhitby/sets/72157627621194423/ |
| 02:16.55 | *** join/#webos-internals Framework (~framework@unaffiliated/framework) |
| 02:17.15 | summatusmentis | but srsly, Xectuah is awesome, now I just need to figure out if I want to mess w/ lvm to resize my partitions, or if I'm ok doctoring |
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| 02:25.32 | nightburn | rwhitby: was there any particular goal you had in disassembly of the Pre 3 ? |
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| 02:40.20 | rwhitby | nightburn: to see what is inside? |
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| 02:50.25 | rwhitby | Four more photos uploaded, showing the other side of the main board. |
| 02:51.09 | *** join/#webos-internals benklop (~ben@c-67-176-102-107.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:51.31 | benklop | hi everyone |
| 02:51.42 | benklop | I can't seem to get my tablet to boot up |
| 02:51.59 | *** join/#webos-internals stalane (~stalane@unaffiliated/stalane) |
| 02:51.59 | benklop | it's at the usb screen, after I accidentally powered it on with the volume up key pressed |
| 02:52.13 | benklop | and i'm not sure how to get it to do anything else |
| 02:52.16 | PatrickC | benklop: hold power and home button for 15 seconds |
| 02:52.41 | benklop | ahaha!! |
| 02:52.50 | benklop | thank you, that was driving me batty |
| 02:52.57 | PatrickC | lol np |
| 02:53.52 | benklop | i was trying to decide if I should use novacom to try and reboot it... when it's at that screen it can be flashed, so I bet it can be rebooted too, right? |
| 02:54.16 | PatrickC | it can, I think you have to memboot it first |
| 02:54.23 | benklop | gosh this boots up so much faster than the pre :-P |
| 02:54.57 | PatrickC | lol |
| 02:56.03 | benklop | hm.... what new can I do with my touchpad today |
| 02:56.24 | PatrickC | OC it to the max! :) |
| 02:57.53 | benklop | BTW, anyone know where I would start trying to compile additional codecs for gstreamer for the touchpad? |
| 03:01.10 | benklop | PatrickC: already heave ;) |
| 03:01.20 | PatrickC | awesome :) |
| 03:01.21 | *** join/#webos-internals panda|x201 (~hzhang@119.80.125.149) |
| 03:01.30 | PatrickC | run ubuntu/debian on it? |
| 03:02.07 | bhuey | rwhitby: preware coming out for the Pre 3 with substantial patches ? |
| 03:02.28 | rwhitby | benklop: you could have just novaterm'd in, hit return to get a bootie prompt, then typed "reset". |
| 03:02.42 | rwhitby | bhuey: already is |
| 03:03.04 | PatrickC | rwhitby: does "reset" and "tellbootie" both work the same? |
| 03:03.16 | PatrickC | isn't near a computer right now |
| 03:03.25 | bhuey | ok |
| 03:03.33 | rwhitby | PatrickC: considering one is a bootie command, and one is a Linux command, no. |
| 03:03.51 | PatrickC | ok.. well, they both restart the device |
| 03:04.01 | PatrickC | so I didn't know how much difference there was, if any |
| 03:04.28 | benklop | PatrickC: debian, couldn't think of a reason for ubuntu :-P |
| 03:04.37 | PatrickC | lol |
| 03:04.59 | PatrickC | is off to bed |
| 03:05.01 | PatrickC | night all |
| 03:05.10 | benklop | night! |
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| 03:27.20 | benklop | during trying to build the cross-compile toolchain im getting the message "cc1: warning: include location "/usr/include" is unsafe for cross-compilation", and libsdl fails to build with "./src/audio/dma/SDL_dmaaudio.c:166: error: impossible constraint in 'asm'" - what am I doing wrong? |
| 03:30.16 | benklop | i don't think i've got an environment variables referencing /usr/include, so i have no idea why that is getting in there |
| 03:32.48 | *** join/#webos-internals NuttyBunny (~wircer@189.245.77.254) |
| 03:32.48 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v NuttyBunny] by ChanServ |
| 03:33.28 | wrea | benklop, what package is being built? |
| 03:35.22 | *** join/#webos-internals venefyxatu (~venefyxat@unaffiliated/venefyxatu) |
| 03:37.33 | benklop | libsdl |
| 03:37.56 | benklop | i'm trying a make clean now |
| 03:38.26 | benklop | i'm trying "make toolchain" |
| 03:38.58 | wrea | im running it right now, but it sounds like the makefile needs editing |
| 03:39.15 | benklop | yeah.. |
| 03:39.25 | benklop | fails the same after a make clean |
| 03:41.31 | benklop | i dont see it anywhere in the root makefile |
| 03:42.01 | PuffTheMagic | http://ompldr.org/vYWlteg/wterm_2011-24-09_234048.png |
| 03:45.09 | benklop | what is the ar6000 module for? |
| 03:45.23 | rwhitby | wifi |
| 03:46.53 | NuttyBunny | wha.... wterm? me want!! ;) |
| 03:46.55 | nburn | What's the best way to directly edit emulator system files on my pc? |
| 03:48.10 | PuffTheMagic | NuttyBunny, :D |
| 03:48.59 | NuttyBunny | compat-wireless-old? what are you planning?? wardriving? :P |
| 03:49.01 | benklop | me too |
| 03:49.16 | benklop | :-P |
| 03:53.35 | wrea | Only if monitor mode worked on the tp |
| 03:54.53 | benklop | i was trying to decide for a moment if usb-host support was being used to hook some ethernet adapter up, and then was wondering why |
| 03:57.04 | benklop | the SDL makefile here includes /usr/include... am I supposed to be building this inside a chroot or something? |
| 03:57.45 | rwhitby | benklop: widk uses scratchbox2 |
| 03:58.57 | benklop | so are the instructions at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Building_Apps_and_Kernels incorrect? |
| 04:01.20 | rwhitby | that describes both the autobuilder setup (which is a straight cross-compile) and the widk (which uses sb2) |
| 04:05.22 | *** part/#webos-internals NuttyBunny (~wircer@189.245.77.254) |
| 04:07.49 | benklop | ah. well if both will get me to a similar goal, i'll just use sb2 |
| 04:10.59 | jtrucks | occassionally I get what may be leaking escape code chars on the screen using Xterm via Xecutah using ssh to a linux machine and attaching to a screen session running irssi in it. |
| 04:11.03 | jtrucks | is this a known issue? |
| 04:11.27 | jtrucks | is it something I can chang locally |
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| 04:31.32 | niu | hi |
| 04:32.04 | *** part/#webos-internals niu (~wircer@117.136.4.5) |
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| 04:55.49 | lucasec | Hello |
| 04:56.48 | benklop | is the widk for the touchpad? or is there any real difference in versions used |
| 04:57.21 | christr | it works to build stuff for the touchpad. |
| 04:59.09 | lucasec | I've been having trouble getting OpenSSH to connect. I keep getting a "Connection Refused" error. If anyone could help me with this, it wouldbe greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
| 04:59.26 | christr | connect how? from the touchpad to another machine? |
| 04:59.37 | dwc- | check and see if the sshd is running |
| 04:59.42 | christr | connection refused generally means there either is A: nothing listening on the other side, or B: a firewall in the way. |
| 05:00.19 | lucasec | It is. I was suspecting a firewall. |
| 05:01.20 | lucasec | SSH worked in the past but stopped after I installed the last WebOS update on my Verizon Pre Plus. |
| 05:01.44 | christr | which direction are you going? to the pre or from the pre somewhere else? |
| 05:01.59 | lucasec | Putty on Windows to Pre. |
| 05:02.13 | lucasec | localhost from xterm on the same pre won't work either though |
| 05:02.32 | christr | ok, 1 of 2 things then.. either 1: sshd isn't actually running anymore... or 2: VZ added some kind of fw/ipchains block in their update... |
| 05:03.20 | christr | try restarting sshd and look in the logs (/var/log/messages probably I think) and see if it's complaining at all. or if it's even really starting. |
| 05:03.53 | christr | one thing i really wish we had in webos was netstat. ... that woudl make life easier for looing at this stuff. hah |
| 05:04.15 | lucasec | start mobi.optware.openssh says "pre-start process terminated with status 127" |
| 05:04.33 | christr | ah, so it' not starting. hmm. |
| 05:04.33 | ka6sox | christr, its available in Optware. |
| 05:04.48 | christr | really? thought i looked there and didn't see it... hmm. i'll look again. |
| 05:05.00 | lucasec | Yeah I installed via preware |
| 05:05.46 | *** join/#webos-internals just4kix (ad4b0a50@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.75.10.80) |
| 05:06.04 | lucasec | I edited the upstart script according to the "Troubleshooting -> Unable to Connect" scetion on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH . |
| 05:06.21 | lucasec | I'm going to reinstall incase I broke that upstart script |
| 05:07.30 | lucasec | OK, sshd is starting now. That one was my bad. Now let me see if I can ssh from outside. |
| 05:08.14 | christr | Tom: thanks! installed the net-tools package and got it. sweet. :) |
| 05:16.52 | lucasec | OK It is now working after the reinstall. I'm not really sure what caused all that. |
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| 05:18.21 | lucasec | Thank you for your help! |
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| 06:33.03 | benklop | man... using Xorg and a debian chroot to connect an rdp session to a windows box with virtual keyboard to run a console session of a remote debian virtual machine install is downright near impossible |
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| 06:35.11 | benklop | the lack of keyboard mappings is the first obstacle, the lack of right click is the second, and the lack of an alt key makes it impossible to unfocus the vm so you can use the keyboard. not that the keyboard would help then, because the vm is unfocused. |
| 06:36.31 | benklop | not that most of this is webos's fault, mostly just the whole form factor isn't really good for doing wonky things |
| 06:36.34 | stalane | benklop: can you get a low latency vnc going? |
| 06:36.41 | stalane | like tigervnc? |
| 06:37.01 | benklop | direct to the VM during the install? |
| 06:37.14 | benklop | maybe, that might work better |
| 06:40.44 | benklop | guess I'll have to check and see if ESXi 4.1 still supports direct connections to VM consoles using VNC - looks like ESX 3.x did 3 years ago, albeit using undocumented options to do so |
| 06:41.01 | benklop | still, sounds like fun :D |
| 06:41.17 | *** join/#webos-internals j-ohnny (0263f4c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.244.201) |
| 06:41.49 | benklop | not that that's off-topic in a webOS chat room of course :-P |
| 06:41.57 | stalane | lol |
| 06:43.27 | benklop | so there's a webOS vnc client then? |
| 06:44.14 | stalane | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/VNC_(Virtual_Network_Computing) |
| 06:45.59 | benklop | neither of those seem to come up in the touchpad catalog |
| 06:46.02 | benklop | :/ |
| 06:48.23 | benklop | can't check preware right now either as my firewall seems to hate something about it. oh well something for work tomorrow... |
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| 08:31.43 | bedrock | morning |
| 08:44.08 | dtzWill | LunohoD: got your email, will look at tomorrow (and assuming all is well, push to some feed :D) |
| 08:44.35 | dtzWill | (thanks!! :) |
| 08:44.36 | dtzWill | ) |
| 08:45.19 | dtzWill | the xsdl/xkeyboard patches are exactly what they should be, just am about to run (it being almost 4am here and all) so will play with replacing the qmap later :) |
| 08:45.28 | bedrock | anyone know anything abot the jailer? |
| 08:45.47 | bedrock | about* |
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| 08:54.14 | rwhitby | yep |
| 08:54.51 | bedrock | i've develoepd a enyo hybrid app |
| 08:55.21 | bedrock | but i need root access in the pdk part, apart from creating /etc/nojail i dont know how to go about getting this? |
| 08:55.24 | bedrock | any ideas? |
| 08:55.46 | rwhitby | can't be done with a hybrid. |
| 08:55.56 | bedrock | ok, how can it be done? |
| 08:56.20 | rwhitby | only way I know how to do it is with a C service or node.js service, homebrew only (won't get into app catalog) |
| 08:56.33 | bedrock | this is homebrew |
| 08:56.55 | rwhitby | have you looked at the Hello! repo? |
| 08:57.06 | bedrock | no |
| 08:57.30 | bedrock | i've done everything frmo palm doc's/example's so far |
| 08:57.37 | bedrock | only came here when i couldn't get it working |
| 08:57.47 | rwhitby | yeah, no chance of any of their stuff getting you root access |
| 08:57.57 | rwhitby | where's your public source repo? |
| 08:57.57 | bedrock | :( |
| 08:58.08 | bedrock | D:\ |
| 08:58.10 | bedrock | ;) |
| 08:58.27 | bedrock | not public yet |
| 08:58.46 | bedrock | can js interact with service? |
| 08:58.48 | rwhitby | well, fix that minor item and we'll be able to take a look and give advice |
| 08:59.06 | bedrock | or would it be js -> hybrid -> service |
| 09:07.02 | Soruk | Hi folks. rwhitby, thank you for the multicard hints earlier in the TigerVNC thread. Based on that, I've made a script that scans for xecutah-enabled apps and rebuilds main-assistant.js - would you like a copy? |
| 09:07.20 | rwhitby | Soruk: hi |
| 09:07.40 | rwhitby | Soruk: that kind of defeats the whitelist aspect doesn't it? |
| 09:07.57 | rwhitby | any rogue app can then install an xecutah script and own your system |
| 09:08.54 | Soruk | True, but any rogue app that knows what to change can do that anyway. |
| 09:09.06 | ka6sox | wrestled with this and finally came to the conclusion he would have to update xecutah everytime he added a new XApp. |
| 09:10.13 | rwhitby | which isn't a bad thing |
| 09:10.21 | Jack87 | ka6sox, whats happening with xapps |
| 09:10.40 | rwhitby | it also means we then have a list of people to coordinate with if the xecutah service has to change for some reason |
| 09:10.41 | Jack87 | ka6sox, I really want to play with a window manager in chroot. will that hinder abilities for xapps |
| 09:11.02 | ka6sox | as soon as I get concurrence that I'm not going to blow up the world I'll put the first one in Alpha. |
| 09:11.19 | ka6sox | then as I get more known good ones I can add them. |
| 09:11.25 | ka6sox | after they get tested. |
| 09:12.08 | Soruk | Another thing, while people are awake here, middle of last week I put in an application to upgrade my forum account to a developer one so I can post in the right place to get TigerVNC uploaded to preware, but I've heard nothing back. |
| 09:12.23 | rwhitby | Soruk: that's PreCentral, not us. |
| 09:12.41 | ka6sox | so I could add TigerVNC if I got confirmation that it worked and played nice on the TP. |
| 09:13.22 | Jack87 | ka6sox, via window manager i installed quick synergy client and it worked pefrect |
| 09:14.13 | ka6sox | Jack87, there is an Applications:XApps page on the wiki now. |
| 09:14.24 | ka6sox | add any known friendly apps and I will review. |
| 09:14.40 | Jack87 | oo nice |
| 09:15.06 | Jack87 | ka6sox, i was actually wondering... can we do synergy within webos (not in x chroot) and use computer keyboard? |
| 09:15.35 | ka6sox | Jack87, I've seen a client...dunno if that was a chrooted thing or not. |
| 09:15.50 | ka6sox | (seen a video of it running on multiple devices. |
| 09:15.51 | Jack87 | ka6sox, it might of just been x |
| 09:15.52 | ka6sox | ) |
| 09:16.01 | Jack87 | yes i saw that rwhitby did it |
| 09:16.07 | ka6sox | yep |
| 09:16.10 | Jack87 | i wonder if we can make the client an optware app |
| 09:16.19 | ka6sox | thats the one I was referring to. |
| 09:16.30 | Jack87 | and that way use it outside of x perhaps? |
| 09:16.48 | ka6sox | things that make use of graphics are not in Optware mostly |
| 09:16.49 | Jack87 | rwhitby, was in x only as i remember. it be cool to get keyboard access in the rest of webos |
| 09:17.14 | rwhitby | you'd have to use something like keyboss to insert keystrokes into the kernel |
| 09:17.15 | Jack87 | ka6sox, is there a teminal base synergy client? |
| 09:17.17 | ka6sox | well. I do have access via the BT keyboard. |
| 09:17.35 | Jack87 | rwhitby, intreasting |
| 09:17.51 | ka6sox | the primary issue I would think is that "mouse" events are not supported in our kernel. |
| 09:17.52 | Soruk | What's the process I need to follow to get TigerVNC formally added to Xecutah? |
| 09:17.54 | ka6sox | the stock one. |
| 09:17.54 | Jack87 | ka6sox, hehe i mean other than using BT keyboard |
| 09:18.31 | Jack87 | ka6sox, you can switch desktop with other ways other than mouse events i believe. you just configure the server how to switch between machines |
| 09:18.48 | ka6sox | Soruk, is the source for the app somewhere we can look and build it from? |
| 09:19.30 | rwhitby | Soruk: public source repository is a key item, for security reasons |
| 09:20.32 | Soruk | Currently, the source is at www.tigervnc.org, and a minimal patch to get it to build (and a menu popup remap) is at http://www.eridani.co.uk/webos/TigerVNC-tp.diff |
| 09:20.38 | rwhitby | In this channel, we're of the opinion that publicly accessible source code is pretty important ;) |
| 09:21.15 | Soruk | It's also packaged with dwm, at dwm.suckless.org |
| 09:21.38 | rwhitby | Soruk: why is dwm needed? |
| 09:22.27 | Soruk | Without a window manager of sourts, TigerVNC's screen window doesn't receive keyboard events. Same is true of every Linux VNC client I've tried to run without a window manager. |
| 09:22.57 | Soruk | My build of dwm is configured to be completely invisible, no title bars or anything, to maximise the screen space available for TigerVNC. |
| 09:24.05 | ka6sox | Soruk, so its not good enough to call an xterm in the x-server canvas and then start tigerVNC? |
| 09:24.36 | Soruk | It also auto-maximises the VNC screen - difference between that and fullscreen mode is fullscreen doesn't offer any scroll bars even if your remote screen is bigger. |
| 09:24.56 | ka6sox | true |
| 09:25.05 | Soruk | I tried that, it worked to connect but it didn't receive any inputs until I also added a window manager, initially twm. |
| 09:26.21 | ka6sox | how "heavy" is this in terms of memory space? |
| 09:26.34 | Soruk | one second... |
| 09:27.38 | rwhitby | Soruk: since PreCentral isn't responding, would you like to distribute via git.webos-internals.org and the webos-internals feeds? |
| 09:28.13 | Soruk | Certainly, yes please. |
| 09:28.26 | rwhitby | Soruk: you familiar with git? |
| 09:29.16 | Soruk | ps shows dwm having a VSZ of 3216. RSS 1096, vncviewer VSZ 5636, RSS 1792. |
| 09:29.27 | Soruk | Not at all, but I'll learn ^_^ |
| 09:30.58 | Soruk | that vnc figure is at the login screen, I'm away from home, doing 3G on my laptop and no connectivity to my touchpad. |
| 09:31.14 | ka6sox | Soruk, okay thats not bad. |
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| 09:31.40 | ka6sox | so do you immediately transition from dwm background to the app? |
| 09:32.02 | rwhitby | bbiab |
| 09:32.40 | Soruk | Yeah, my start script starts dwm as a background app then kicks off vncviewer. |
| 09:33.53 | Soruk | I'll need to make a few other changes to vncviewer, as it stands however you exit it it has an exit code of 1. I want to make a user-request exit to have an exit of 0, so mistyped passwords or link failure can be caught to restart the app but user-requested close just stops it. |
| 09:34.13 | Soruk | either that, or call the start new session bit in the code instead of exiting! |
| 09:34.38 | Soruk | something else I have planned is to do a L-R button switch so you can right-click. |
| 09:34.54 | ka6sox | so there is a floating window for the connect then a FS window upon connect with scrollbars as necessary? |
| 09:35.14 | Soruk | Yes. |
| 09:35.31 | EricBlade | hey guys, this isn't exactly a true "internals" question, but can anyone think of a particularly good reason why the default setting for "accelerated" in a VirtualRepeater is false? i just flipped it to true in my base framework, and some apps that really sucked are just smokin fast now |
| 09:36.00 | ka6sox | Soruk, you could make it a "service" and say start upon stop so it would restart. |
| 09:36.24 | Soruk | If you want a play the latest package is at the TigerVNC thread on precentral or at www.eridani.co.uk/webos/ |
| 09:37.42 | ka6sox | Soruk, so if its in a card it would "die" a natural death if the card was thrown away... |
| 09:38.00 | ka6sox | but if it died because of a failure it would bring you back to the connect. |
| 09:38.06 | Soruk | I'll look into that. |
| 09:39.29 | ka6sox | I assume this isnt' SDL but rather runs in a chroot? or native with X-support. |
| 09:40.13 | Soruk | Native with X support. |
| 10:10.20 | hape | ~logs |
| 10:10.20 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23webos%2dinternals/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
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| 11:12.16 | Jack87 | rwhitby, have you seen this script? http://forums.precentral.net/webos-development/295909-easy-autoconfiguration-ubuntu.html |
| 11:12.34 | Jack87 | what do you think? is it safe or worth giving a shot? |
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| 11:16.21 | akeel1519 | hi I'm new to this webOS thing need help to install Bantu on HP touchpad don't know how to use meta-doctor please gelp |
| 11:17.08 | akeel1519 | need help I have installed macports and score and don't know what to do know |
| 11:17.37 | Jack87 | akeel1519, go look at the wiki. its all there |
| 11:17.49 | Jack87 | akeel1519, no one here will tell you anything different than what is already documented |
| 11:18.20 | akeel1519 | I can't make it it out maybe cos I'm a little stupid don't know how to build meta doctor |
| 11:18.51 | akeel1519 | do I use the palm SDK in xcode ? |
| 11:19.51 | Jack87 | akeel1519, try following the wiki as it says it explains it all |
| 11:20.14 | Jack87 | no SDK is required to make a meta doctor however you will need linux machine the instructions are targeted towards ubuntu |
| 11:20.44 | akeel1519 | I have a mac so am I stuck |
| 11:20.57 | Jack87 | akeel1519, read the wiki.. there is mac guide |
| 11:21.35 | Jack87 | akeel1519, where are you looking for guidance right now anyway? |
| 11:21.59 | akeel1519 | how do I install Lewin things |
| 11:22.17 | akeel1519 | mdsum5 |
| 11:22.56 | akeel1519 | I want to try Bantu out |
| 11:23.05 | Jack87 | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor |
| 11:23.14 | Jack87 | doesnt use mac... ^ follow instructions and good luck |
| 11:23.31 | Jack87 | its all layed out step by step |
| 11:23.48 | akeel1519 | ho do I install the ports |
| 11:24.14 | Jack87 | like i said i dont use mac.. youll have to figure that out else where |
| 11:24.35 | akeel1519 | ok thanks that's where I'm stuck |
| 11:25.12 | Jack87 | im sure a google search should come in handy (as that isnt really webos related its a different project) |
| 11:25.41 | hape | rwhitby: ping |
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| 14:25.19 | RichT23 | Hoot |
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| 15:21.11 | LarrySteeze|Away | I love impostah's app description |
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| 15:37.27 | RaYmAn | so..any obvious way to force turn off device when in USB/recovery mode? in particular if USB connection has stopped work :P |
| 15:37.37 | RaYmAn | holding down power button for ages does nothing |
| 15:37.44 | RaYmAn | (on TouchPad) |
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| 15:44.46 | owa | did youtube start blocking the hptp? |
| 15:44.58 | owa | for some reason all frames where the video should be, are now black |
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| 15:45.01 | owa | without that i changed anything |
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| 15:46.13 | Zuchmir2 | hi, compiling c/c++ for same for pre as pixi? or do i need seperate packages for each? |
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| 15:52.01 | dwc- | RaYmAn: try holding the home button and the power button down for 30s |
| 15:52.27 | RaYmAn | awesome! |
| 15:52.30 | RaYmAn | that worked :) |
| 15:52.30 | dwc- | Zuchmir2: depends on your compiler options... pixi is armv6, pre is armv7 |
| 15:52.33 | RaYmAn | after around 10 secs |
| 15:53.14 | dwc- | yea, 10, I just tell people 20 or 30 in case they count fast :) |
| 15:53.21 | RaYmAn | lol |
| 15:53.40 | RaYmAn | feels embarrased for not reading the obvious posts about getting out of recovery mode |
| 15:53.41 | Zuchmir2 | dwc-: been using /opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc -Wall -O2 -fPIC -I/opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/include -DDISTRIBUTION -DNDEBUG -c file.c |
| 15:53.58 | RaYmAn | I just assumed it as people being stuck in recovery mode in the sense of rebooting into recovery mode everytime, lol |
| 15:54.25 | Zuchmir2 | would that be using arm6 or arm7 (how can i tell) |
| 15:54.56 | RaYmAn | probably armv4, lol (iirc, that's the default in gcc) |
| 15:55.33 | Zuchmir2 | file plugin.so shows: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, strippe |
| 15:55.54 | Zuchmir2 | so should that work on pixi as well as pre? |
| 15:56.40 | dwc- | I'm not sure... I don't have a pixi |
| 15:57.49 | Zuchmir2 | is there any sample code with Makefile for plugin (or other bin) that runs on both pre and pixi |
| 15:58.12 | dwc- | try wIRC |
| 15:59.23 | Zuchmir2 | thanks |
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| 16:47.57 | destinal | ~seen Zuchmir2 |
| 16:48.03 | infobot | zuchmir2 <18e453fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.228.83.251> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 48m 40s ago, saying: 'thanks'. |
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| 18:50.04 | *** topic/#webos-internals is Discussion about webOS internals (not webOS SDK usage or anything to do with Android). Use #webos-general for off-topic stuff. Honor all NDAs, licenses, carrier agreements and copyrights. Twitter: @webosinternals Logs: logs.nslu2-linux.org Wiki: www.webos-internals.org Preware: www.preware.org Patches: patches.webos-internals.org Testing Feed: testing.preware.org |
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| 20:27.21 | LunohoD | dtzWill: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Touchpad_Bluetooth_Keyboard#Keyboard_layouts |
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| 20:27.48 | LunohoD | my english sucks :( |
| 20:28.38 | Andreas___ | Is Rod around? |
| 20:29.25 | PatrickC | Andreas___: ping him? he's probably sleeping if I had to guess |
| 20:29.28 | PatrickC | but idk |
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| 20:31.47 | Andreas___ | ok, my english aint that good so I had trouble understanding the last step in how to get App Catalog access. |
| 20:32.27 | Andreas___ | Wasnt sure if just doctor it and relogin to the Impostah created account or create a completely new account with the phone. |
| 20:34.31 | Andreas___ | Said to turn backup off so that got deleted so I figured I should login to that account again. (feels a bit stupid today lol) |
| 20:39.11 | ka6sox | LunohoD, thanks. |
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| 20:44.16 | LunohoD | + |
| 20:44.27 | LunohoD | oops |
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| 21:06.32 | Jack87 | cool optware is ported to dd-wrt! :) http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Optware |
| 21:07.20 | summatusmentis | well... I mean, dd-wrt had optware before we did |
| 21:07.32 | Jack87 | is it valid enough to be added to the optware platforms section of the optware wikipedia article? |
| 21:07.37 | Jack87 | oh it did? |
| 21:07.41 | Jack87 | so its not the same? |
| 21:07.53 | Jack87 | oh its added there alrady i see it |
| 21:07.55 | summatusmentis | I mean, it is |
| 21:08.16 | summatusmentis | optware was a thing that was started for the nslu2 embedded linux |
| 21:08.23 | Jack87 | right |
| 21:08.51 | LunohoD | does anyone know the subpixel orientation on the touchpad? |
| 21:08.51 | summatusmentis | I don't know the specifics, but dd-wrt has been using it for a while |
| 21:09.41 | Jack87 | i know openWRT was.. but ya looking at the dd-wrt wiki history. the wiki was created aug of 09 so a little after the pre was released |
| 21:10.20 | summatusmentis | oh, I may be confusing openwrt + dd-wrt |
| 21:10.33 | summatusmentis | regardless, yes, dd-wrt has optware |
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| 22:24.06 | Jack87 | yay for rdesktop :) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9259463/xserver_2011-25-09_161951.png |
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| 22:25.51 | IOMonster | now i just gotta finish my app |
| 22:25.57 | IOMonster | and you'll have an easy remote desktop gui |
| 22:26.21 | IOMonster | i'm waiting on rwhitby to add my app to his whitelist :) |
| 22:26.57 | Jack87 | i am in rdesktop now |
| 22:27.05 | IOMonster | excellent |
| 22:27.21 | IOMonster | however, my app will make it much easier to connect/save connections |
| 22:27.33 | IOMonster | without the need for a full window manager+chroot setup |
| 22:27.51 | IOMonster | http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad-apps/300550-wip-easy-remote-desktop-client-gui-done.html |
| 22:28.04 | Jack87 | halfhalo, ^ did you see |
| 22:28.25 | Jack87 | IOMonster, nice to see you in webos community! |
| 22:28.52 | IOMonster | ah! weren't you in the lg revolution channel? |
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| 22:29.52 | Jack87 | IOMonster, no we have history in nookdevs i believe |
| 22:29.57 | Jack87 | or nookie or somethign |
| 22:30.29 | ka6sox | IOMonster, nook stuff. |
| 22:30.40 | IOMonster | ah okay |
| 22:30.46 | IOMonster | now i'm remembering it all |
| 22:30.48 | IOMonster | howdy ka6sox |
| 22:30.54 | Jack87 | hehe yup |
| 22:30.56 | IOMonster | i'm just all over the place haha |
| 22:31.05 | Jack87 | IOMonster, how are you enjoying webos? |
| 22:31.20 | IOMonster | i like it a lot-- it's much smoother than android in terms of user experience |
| 22:31.28 | IOMonster | but from a developer standpoint, it's a mess |
| 22:31.29 | IOMonster | haha |
| 22:32.31 | ka6sox | IOMonster, its "different" |
| 22:32.34 | IOMonster | webos needs a few things: 1) better documentation |
| 22:32.38 | IOMonster | 2) a superuser app |
| 22:32.50 | IOMonster | 3) some "cleanup in the filesystem aisle" |
| 22:32.57 | IOMonster | but other than that |
| 22:33.00 | IOMonster | i like it more than android |
| 22:33.05 | IOMonster | from the 'user' standpoint |
| 22:33.06 | ka6sox | #2 xterm |
| 22:33.09 | Jack87 | good to have you here... |
| 22:33.19 | ka6sox | #1 agreed |
| 22:33.37 | Jack87 | i dont think there will be a superuser app ever... but you are welcome to use xterm to run your own commands |
| 22:33.53 | ka6sox | #3 the cryptofs throws a wrinkle in this but its a good way to deal with things. |
| 22:33.55 | IOMonster | for #2 i mean a service that acts as an intermediary between applications and services that need to run in linux subsystem |
| 22:33.57 | Jack87 | ka6sox, super user app gave third party apps sudo in android |
| 22:34.06 | IOMonster | here's the reason for superuser app |
| 22:34.13 | IOMonster | my app ioremote needs to launch rdesktop |
| 22:34.15 | IOMonster | and xserver |
| 22:34.24 | Jack87 | IOMonster, i believe the practice is certain services for the apps that need special access |
| 22:34.38 | Jack87 | IOMonster, have you checked out the xapps wiki? |
| 22:34.47 | IOMonster | but right now i have to write a service to be able to run a local app |
| 22:34.51 | ka6sox | IOMonster, give me a week and rdesktop will work fine. |
| 22:34.54 | IOMonster | i think a superuser app would be excellent |
| 22:35.02 | ka6sox | as a "user" |
| 22:35.06 | ka6sox | not client. |
| 22:35.08 | Jack87 | i guess there is nothing there yet |
| 22:35.11 | ka6sox | sorry |
| 22:35.14 | ka6sox | not server |
| 22:35.17 | IOMonster | since then i could just call com.thecubed.superuser with {"params": "/usr/bin/rdesktop"} and be done with it |
| 22:35.18 | Jack87 | but ka6sox is working on developing xapps |
| 22:35.58 | IOMonster | nice |
| 22:36.01 | ka6sox | IOMonster, basically all you will have to do is run xecutah, and choose rdesktop. |
| 22:36.15 | ka6sox | and all that you said will be handled. |
| 22:36.32 | IOMonster | ka6sox: but how will you handle saving connection details? |
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| 22:36.39 | IOMonster | i've already written a gui that does that |
| 22:37.02 | ka6sox | I'd use rdesktops connection manager. |
| 22:37.12 | ka6sox | and save it locally on the TP. |
| 22:37.29 | IOMonster | so your app would rely on the x frontend of rdesktop for connection managing? |
| 22:37.44 | ka6sox | yup |
| 22:37.57 | IOMonster | eh, i think i'll keep working on mine |
| 22:38.05 | IOMonster | i'd prefer a native webos frontend |
| 22:38.23 | ka6sox | WFM.... |
| 22:38.28 | IOMonster | ? |
| 22:38.32 | ka6sox | and I'll continue with XApps. |
| 22:38.37 | ka6sox | Works for Me. |
| 22:38.56 | IOMonster | okey dokey |
| 22:39.03 | IOMonster | what other xapps are you working on? |
| 22:39.07 | ka6sox | XApps was never envisioned as a replacement for Native Apps. |
| 22:39.19 | Jack87 | ka6sox, i think i will mess with samba soon |
| 22:39.22 | ka6sox | it was for things that we couldnt' get easily on the TP. |
| 22:39.48 | ka6sox | IOMonster, started with XChat, now testing chromium browser and then libreoffice |
| 22:39.48 | IOMonster | ah |
| 22:39.56 | IOMonster | very nice |
| 22:40.02 | IOMonster | those sort of things i think are incredibly useful |
| 22:40.26 | Jack87 | IOMonster, hehe and i am lighting a fire under transmission and rdesktop and whatever else i can think of |
| 22:40.43 | ka6sox | yes, until we get native apps that run better than the XApps. I just wanted something we could use to make things better in the "App" department. |
| 22:40.53 | IOMonster | see, here's why i think we need a superuser app-- that way i can write webos frontends to console apps like samba |
| 22:41.31 | ka6sox | IOMonster, you can create an app that has root privs. |
| 22:41.39 | ka6sox | we have a lot of them already. |
| 22:41.41 | IOMonster | yep, you just gotta write a service |
| 22:41.42 | Jack87 | IOMonster, you can write a service for such apps if you like |
| 22:41.53 | IOMonster | yeah, i just don't see a need in duplicating services |
| 22:42.04 | Jack87 | IOMonster, you can write one service to control multiple apps |
| 22:42.07 | IOMonster | i think unifying the root permissions service would be useful |
| 22:42.11 | Jack87 | call it IO service :) |
| 22:42.25 | ka6sox | could be done. |
| 22:42.26 | IOMonster | yep, that's what i'll be doing apparently haha |
| 22:42.30 | Jack87 | IOMonster, there was a service that controled all but it was a secuirt risk rwhitby took it down |
| 22:42.39 | rwhitby | not so |
| 22:42.47 | Jack87 | rwhitby, oh? please clearify |
| 22:42.54 | IOMonster | the advantage to my idea is that when an app requests a local application ran it'd pop up with a notification |
| 22:43.00 | IOMonster | allowing the user to allow or deny the request |
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| 22:44.09 | IOMonster | i just hate duplicating work that's all |
| 22:46.29 | rwhitby | IOMonster: yeah, I've thought about such a root proxy app in the past. |
| 22:46.43 | IOMonster | i'd be happy to do the GUI for you |
| 22:47.12 | IOMonster | i think it'd be advantageous to have an app that presents the user with the ability to allow/deny the reguest, and view the raw command details |
| 22:47.13 | rwhitby | well, it would have to be in Mojo, since such a proxy would not only be for touchpads |
| 22:47.26 | IOMonster | i think i'd to a mojo/enyo version |
| 22:47.36 | rwhitby | sounds good, fat apps ftw |
| 22:47.39 | IOMonster | i think i've figured out a possible way to have a hybrid version |
| 22:47.58 | IOMonster | so the enyo version could use enyo noticiations like the usb disk popup |
| 22:48.05 | IOMonster | and the mojo version would just use a dialog |
| 22:48.08 | rwhitby | combined mojo/enyo apps are well known and documented |
| 22:48.12 | IOMonster | ah okay |
| 22:48.13 | IOMonster | sweet |
| 22:48.28 | rwhitby | they're even accepted into the app catalog |
| 22:48.40 | IOMonster | once i get my enyo rdp gui done, i'll make it a hybrid mojo/enyo app |
| 22:48.56 | rwhitby | IOMonster: BTW, hybrid means something different in webOS. |
| 22:49.01 | IOMonster | ah okay |
| 22:49.06 | rwhitby | you're describing a multi-platform package |
| 22:49.08 | IOMonster | ah |
| 22:49.13 | rwhitby | or "fat app" |
| 22:49.15 | IOMonster | hybrid means pdk/webos then? |
| 22:49.20 | rwhitby | yes |
| 22:49.23 | IOMonster | okey dokey |
| 22:49.26 | IOMonster | thanks |
| 22:49.46 | IOMonster | the frustrating part about coming from android/desktop linux to another platform is the terminology is confusing |
| 22:50.02 | rwhitby | IOMonster: let's discuss the root proxy service later - I need to get the kids to school right now |
| 22:50.08 | IOMonster | okey dokey |
| 22:50.57 | IOMonster | when you get some time, i'd like to discuss the possibility of adding arguments support to xecutah's c-service |
| 22:52.00 | rwhitby | yep, later today |
| 22:52.06 | IOMonster | okey dokey |
| 22:52.12 | IOMonster | sounds good to me |
| 22:52.20 | rwhitby | (8:30m monday here) |
| 22:52.23 | IOMonster | ah wow |
| 22:52.29 | IOMonster | you're waay ahead of me |
| 22:52.37 | IOMonster | can you make any predictions about the future? |
| 22:52.40 | IOMonster | :) |
| 22:52.49 | rwhitby | when the world ends, I'll give you some advance warning |
| 22:52.54 | IOMonster | sweet |
| 22:52.57 | ka6sox | heh |
| 22:53.15 | IOMonster | everyone, monday is guaranteed. stop the doomsday clocks :) |
| 22:53.20 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 22:54.04 | ka6sox | 9minutes till midnight |
| 22:54.10 | ka6sox | bbl |
| 22:54.55 | wrea | I wonder wtf I was doing last time I was working on kismet |
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| 23:20.27 | *** join/#webos-internals Kaerey (~Michael@71-208-222-13.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 23:22.09 | Kaerey | Looking for some advice, random event happened. I was uninstalling the Ubuntu Chroot package via Preware. After it was done I restarted the device only to find that Preware was gone as were a load of my Homebrew Apps, but patches seemed to be intact.Anyone know what might have caused this? Catalog apps were unaffected, and no synergy services were lost. |
| 23:22.38 | Kaerey | Let me clarify, patches don't show as installed via Preware, but they are effective on the device. |
| 23:25.10 | Loudergood | emergency patch recovery |
| 23:26.02 | Kaerey | that reverts everything to normal correct? |
| 23:26.44 | Kaerey | And then I can reinstall them all correctly? |
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| 23:27.43 | drobbins | yo |
| 23:27.50 | drobbins | so what's all the tweeting about AT&T pre3 phones? |
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| 23:28.00 | drobbins | they're just trickling on to ebay? |
| 23:28.29 | Loudergood | or try emergency reconstruction utility |
| 23:28.43 | Loudergood | that's all I've heard |
| 23:28.51 | Loudergood | but new ceo so who the hell knows |
| 23:29.44 | drobbins | oh nice |
| 23:29.45 | drobbins | yay |
| 23:32.13 | Framework | http://yfrog.com/o0u1qxj |
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| 23:54.53 | Jack87 | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Xapps |
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