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| 16:10.07 | fugalh | test |
| 16:10.36 | eightyeight | test failed |
| 16:11.27 | fugalh | testy test |
| 16:11.40 | RyanE | lots of test-icles this morning |
| 16:12.04 | fugalh | coming to you from good ol' telnet. I guess it's working |
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| 17:32.51 | unum | pashdown: did you see the article in the trib about stone castle recycling? |
| 17:33.05 | pashdown | yeah... those guys always seemed shady to me |
| 17:33.15 | unum | ya I remember you saying that |
| 17:33.22 | unum | you called that right |
| 17:33.37 | bregalad | a fugalh, in #utah? |
| 17:33.41 | bregalad | ~seen fugalh |
| 17:33.49 | infobot | fugalh <~fugalh@2620:10d:c082:1055:6203:8ff:fe8f:4348> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1h 21m 45s ago, saying: 'coming to you from good ol' telnet. I guess it's working'. |
| 17:35.58 | fozzmoo | gosh. What am I going to do now with my CRT monitors?! |
| 17:36.53 | jlp_znc | they make good boat anchors |
| 17:37.16 | jlp_znc | they are too big to be good door stops, though |
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| 17:45.34 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Put them out on the street, with a sign that says "Free!" |
| 17:45.55 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Worked for me, and I saw two other CRTs disappear yesterday from a neighbor's driveway |
| 17:49.52 | dumby | I kinda sympathize with Stone Castle... it's an admirable market to get into, but obviously one that's extremely difficult to navigate and make successful |
| 17:50.24 | joshh | whats the tldr? |
| 17:50.31 | joshh | about stone castle |
| 17:50.36 | bregalad | what's the rdlt? |
| 17:50.38 | dumby | They accepted a bunch of CRTs to recycle, couldn't do anything with them |
| 17:51.00 | dumby | So DI was saying "Look at all this recyclign we did!" and trusted Stone Castle to do what they existed for. In reality, they were just sitting in warehouses and what not |
| 17:51.52 | dumby | Because the market for the recycled bits of CRTs disappeared almost entirely, and they're nothign but environmental waste at this point. Not much to do but find a way to destroy them. |
| 17:52.35 | dumby | And I think I remember reading later last year that we're already a few million pounds behind on CRTs and waste recyclers have no idea what to do to facilitate demand as CRTs become entirely worthless |
| 17:53.31 | bregalad | did they not anticipate that nobody was going to want CRTs? |
| 17:53.58 | dumby | I don't think we as a society really ever did... I think it's our responsibility as a whole in many ways |
| 17:54.16 | bregalad | dumby: truly |
| 17:54.32 | joshh | ewaste in general is a hard problem |
| 17:54.48 | joshh | might need to just spend money to solve it |
| 17:55.09 | bregalad | SLC has a household e-waste site at the dump where you can take stuff |
| 17:55.22 | programmerq | best we can do as consumers is take them to a place that properly handles them for recycling. tam solutions in lindon is a recycler here locally. |
| 17:55.25 | unum | also they were just busting up the monitors by hand(releasing cadium and lead into the air) |
| 17:55.49 | unum | some of them caught fire creating even worse combinations of chemicals |
| 17:55.55 | dumby | Even places that handle them 'properly' are going to have major stock building up. Local places that actually do the breaking down of components themselves have a backlog of millions of poiunds |
| 17:56.47 | bregalad | this is probably the best case for organic electronics |
| 17:56.47 | unum | when the state moved into shut down stone castle he relocated all of his hazardous wastes to other locations assuring the landlords it was all on the up and up |
| 17:57.02 | dumby | There's gonna have to be a gigantic scale initiative at some point to find out what we do with all this waste. |
| 17:57.05 | bregalad | unless they turn out to e carcinogenous or something |
| 17:57.18 | bregalad | s/ e/ be/ |
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| 17:57.51 | unum | and now he's fled and the landlords are left facing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for the stuff to be safely removed, cleaned up and disposed of |
| 17:59.25 | unum | bregalad: as you said the dump takes "household" e-waste. they won't take it if it's coming from schools, the di, or a company |
| 17:59.30 | dumby | Kinda sucks, but there's no money to be made in the stuff anymore, so our established systems will completely fail at dealing with the situation. At this point it's looking like we just have to throw a bunch of money at the government and hope they find a way to make things right. Hopefully especially so for those landlords and everyone else involved. But this isn't a localized issue, it's gonna be global |
| 17:59.35 | unum | stone castle was taking stuff from schools and the di |
| 18:00.14 | jlp_znc | unum: have the school give the monitors to the students/faculty, then let them throw them in their recycling bins at home. :-/ |
| 18:00.16 | unum | when you buy tires you pay a special tax that is used to cover the costs of disposing of tires |
| 18:00.46 | unum | jlp_znc: you don't want to throw them in a recycle bin that illegal and dangorous you have to drive them out to the dump |
| 18:01.16 | unum | someone told me they ask you if they have only been used for personal use |
| 18:01.27 | Tod-Work | I don't think they were shady, I think they were incompetent |
| 18:01.37 | Tod-Work | the line between the two of which is very thin |
| 18:02.39 | unum | well state authorities started coming down on him, he moved everything to other locations, so I'd say shady |
| 18:02.46 | unum | he knew what he was doing was illegal |
| 18:03.30 | dumby | Tod-Work, I agree. It's gotta be terrifying being faced with that situation. You're sitting on a huge pile of what become absolute trash and has a huge environmental impact. You either become extremely philanthropic, or realize there's absolutely no way you can deal with it responsibly |
| 18:04.08 | dumby | IMO he should have gone to the state and said "I just have no clue what I can possibly do about this.... help?". He's a businessman so ultimately has to accept responsibiilty of some kind, but it's a major situation of being stuck between 2 rocks |
| 18:04.50 | Tod-Work | unum, easily explained at the panicked response of a moron refusing to deal with his mistakes. It comes out shady, but I can't ascribe such intent to him. (Reminder that incompetence is not a lesser crime in my eyes) |
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| 18:05.45 | unum | well what he was doing was illegal, he knew it was illegal and he kept doing it |
| 18:06.02 | bregalad | well, this is a fun debate |
| 18:06.18 | bregalad | 'incompetence' vs 'malevolent' |
| 18:08.43 | unum | iirc pashdown toured their facilities and discussed their process with them, and felt they weren't being honest with him about their process |
| 18:09.06 | pashdown | ayup |
| 18:09.22 | dumby | But do you figure that was from the start, or only after realizing he was in the wrong industry at the wrong time with no real way to get out of it? |
| 18:10.42 | pashdown | they didn't let me go through their files. however, according to the trib article, they dumped a load of crts illegally. he continually told me their crt disposal process was legitimate, which was a lie. |
| 18:12.22 | Tod-Work | dumby, given the timeline, I'm pretty sure it was cutting corners leading to coverups and lies leading to just outright desperation. It's a common enough pattern of human behavior. I'm also sure he was in it initially for the copper or something and has no plans for the rest, which bit him |
| 18:12.39 | Tod-Work | he really never should have been in business in the first place |
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| 18:17.20 | Tod-Work | Given pashdown's experiences with them, pashdown has a knack for seeing bad business practices internally (he should really start a consultancy on that or something), so I don't doubt this was inevitably going to happen given Stone's stupidity, if not in this instance in something else. |
| 18:18.33 | dumby | yeah I think it was wrong business, wrong time. Crappy dude that deserves what he'll get for his actions, but I don't really put much faith that anyone could deal with the situation better. It's a lose all for anyone that's involved. |
| 18:18.38 | Tod-Work | Now I just have to figure out how to get rid of a CRT TV >.> Any takers? 720p Sony WEGA <.< |
| 18:19.24 | pashdown | i think salt lake county takes them for a fee |
| 18:19.52 | Tod-Work | dumby, actually, I think a LOT of people could have done better. You get a lot of copper out of CRTs, so you could have appropriated some of the funds selling that stuff to dealing with the other less salable materials. |
| 18:20.36 | Tod-Work | It's not a great market, e-waste, but it's very manageable if you think ahead |
| 18:23.24 | Tod-Work | This conversation reminds me that I need to look at VoIP stuff. Blegh |
| 18:23.45 | unum | there are several that exist in Utah that are mentioned in the article |
| 18:23.58 | Tod-Work | ~unum++ |
| 18:24.15 | programmerq | so if the recyclers themselves aren't recycling the CRTs, what other options might there be? |
| 18:24.17 | Tod-Work | wishes SIP was better |
| 18:24.24 | programmerq | for us consumers, that is |
| 18:24.51 | unum | but they all charge for CRTs the one we use pays for some stuff and charges for CRTs we had to pay when we had a big load of CRTs but since then it has balanced out |
| 18:25.02 | unum | I think we're CRT free now |
| 18:25.43 | unum | my understanding is that the good Utah recyclers ship them to out of state facilities that can process them safely |
| 18:25.52 | unum | Tod-Work: what VoIP stuff are you doing? |
| 18:26.23 | unum | for some reason SFLPhone works perfectly for me on debian but has sound quality issues on Fedora.... |
| 18:27.12 | Tod-Work | unum, looking to start offering a service to manage a line. I don't want to do my own POTS lines, so I either have to put a server in a colo and connect to XO (which is fine, but expensive at the start), or use something like Twilio, which is cheap and easy, but inflexible and I don't trust them to be the least bit stable. Startups and all that. |
| 18:27.13 | levi | Tod-Work: Purely out of curiosity, what problems do you have with SIP? |
| 18:27.45 | Tod-Work | levi, it's mostly the million edge cases and extra headers you essentially HAVE to work with unless you don't like playing with others. |
| 18:28.01 | Tod-Work | plus every provider has their quirks with it |
| 18:28.32 | levi | Ah, so, the general problems with protocols in common use. :) |
| 18:28.40 | Tod-Work | for instance, XO uses a vendor that will ruin timing if you try to follow the RFCs for SIP, so you have to specifically ignore timing, but only when working with a known box of theirs |
| 18:29.25 | Tod-Work | levi, general problems with protocols in common use that didn't have standards when they started, and everyone thinks they're a special snowflake to work around =cP |
| 18:29.26 | Tod-Work | So yeah |
| 18:30.10 | levi | Tod-Work: Having a standard when you start doesn't necessarily solve the problem. |
| 18:31.03 | Tod-Work | levi, not at all, nor did I mean to imply that |
| 18:31.18 | levi | Standards defined before implementations tend to have lots of practical problems that need to be worked around, which tends to be done in incompatible ways. |
| 18:31.50 | Tod-Work | typically they get added onto, so the standard is a subset of the functionality in use in the wild |
| 18:32.07 | Tod-Work | if you don't have one, it's much the same problems but for slightly different reasons |
| 18:32.21 | Tod-Work | basically I hate people |
| 18:32.24 | Tod-Work | I'm a hater |
| 18:32.24 | levi | Tod-Work: A couple of coworkers of mine worked at Lucent on big telecom switch hardware, and the description of your problems with SIP sounds a lot like the descriptions they give of the sort of cross-vendor incompatibilities they had to deal with back then. :) |
| 18:32.40 | Tod-Work | mhmmm |
| 18:32.55 | Tod-Work | I've had the same complaint about SMTP, HTTP, and just about everything else, you know it =cP |
| 18:33.03 | levi | Indeed. |
| 18:34.15 | levi | So, I went to an AVnu Alliance meeting that was hosted at the UNH IoL, which exists to test interoperability of various protocols (WiFi, Bluetooth, Ethernet) for industry alliances of hardware vendors. |
| 18:36.17 | levi | Imagine a warehouse filled to the brim with racks of commercial gadgets from the last 10-15 years that have spoken any sort of standard network protocol, all connected to racks of network equipment and interspersed with cubes populated with college students and test equipment. |
| 18:40.21 | Tod-Work | I'd like to visit, not to stay |
| 18:43.37 | bregalad | 'our equipment goes through an inter-non-paid-intern transmission protocol' |
| 18:47.39 | levi | Yeah, it was cool to see. |
| 18:49.02 | levi | The fact that it has to exist even for interop testing of stuff like Ethernet says a lot about why we're perpetually annoyed about compatibility issues. |
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| 19:46.07 | goozbach | mornin |
| 19:54.58 | levi | Yo. |
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| 20:28.25 | Tod-Work | no goozbach |
| 20:28.30 | Tod-Work | it's only mornin' in hawaii |
| 20:33.05 | jlp_znc | anywhere east of Iran through to French Polynesia, really. |
| 20:34.10 | jlp_znc | but I guess that's tomorrow morning for much of those timezones. |
| 20:35.03 | jlp_znc | for example, it's 6:34 AM tomorrow on Chuuk right now. |
| 20:35.28 | jlp_znc | (a neighbor's son went on his mission to Chuuk, so I like to use it as an example) |
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| 20:45.18 | goozbach | IRC standard time |
| 20:45.25 | goozbach | I joined the channel, hence it's morning |
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| 20:48.40 | RyanE | It's morning in Australia. |
| 20:49.09 | fozzmoo | It's always morning somewhere, my high school and college friend used to always say. |
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| 20:51.58 | Tod-Work | There exist no places outside the US |
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| 21:16.21 | jlp_znc | Tod-Work: that's very American of you. :-) |
| 21:16.29 | Tod-Work | 'murica! |
| 21:17.05 | Tod-Work | is not obviously that ignorant, he just pretends on TV sometimes |
| 21:17.12 | jlp_znc | so, if you have ever travelled internationally, you will observe that most Canadian travellers wear little Canadian flags on their person and belongings in various places. |
| 21:17.19 | jlp_znc | I asked one, one time, why this was so. |
| 21:17.37 | Tod-Work | so they don't get confused with Americans |
| 21:17.41 | jlp_znc | I was told it was so that people didn't think he was from the United States. Because that could be consrued as a "bad thing." |
| 21:18.02 | jlp_znc | apparently, we have a reputation elsewhere in the world as being kind of stuck on ourselves. go figure. |
| 21:18.17 | jlp_znc | s/consrued/construed/ |
| 21:18.49 | RyanE | I've heard of *American* travellers wearing little Canadian flag pins, as well. :) |
| 21:18.54 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 21:19.02 | RyanE | strangely enough, for the *same* reason. |
| 21:27.14 | romanovic | have you ever noticed that you can find stereotypes about Americans at both ends of just about any spectrum, depending on who you talk to? it's amazing that we live this dual existence |
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| 21:28.53 | romanovic | Americans care too much about their appearance and are so superficial -vs- Americans really don't care about their appearance, they just let themselves go (see: people of walmart) |
| 21:30.58 | levi | romanovic: The people who have completely let themselves go are probably largely just as superficial about appearances, they're just a lot more hypocritical. :P |
| 21:32.30 | romanovic | Americans are generally rude and inconsiderate, especially among cultures other than their own -vs- Why are Americans always happy and nice, almost to a fault? |
| 21:33.17 | romanovic | levi: I'm sure there are ways to explain many discrepancies in how americans are perceived |
| 21:34.02 | levi | Yeah. Perceptions are funny. |
| 21:34.11 | romanovic | but I think there are enough americans distributed among all stereotypes that you can pretty much pick and choose whatever disparaging stereotype you want, and it will be true |
| 21:34.37 | romanovic | same with other countries with large populations and diaspora |
| 21:41.12 | levi | http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1781252874 |
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| 22:17.00 | unum | trying to convince myself to not turn selinux off |
| 22:17.46 | unum | I had switched it to permissive mode temporarily to troubleshoot some stuff |
| 22:18.03 | unum | and forgot about it until I rebooted today and nothing could connect to ldap |
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| 22:21.45 | levi | Heh: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2589890 |
| 22:22.04 | levi | "Bitcoin as Politics: Distributed Right-Wing Extremism" |
| 22:22.51 | levi | I am not sure that the paper isn't a bunch of hooey, but the title and thesis struck me as funny but plausible. ;) |
| 22:29.43 | unum | levi: nice :) |
| 22:41.33 | jalbretsen | ugh. I can't believe in 2015 I'm still troubleshooting faxes |
| 22:41.48 | jalbretsen | scan to email people. scan to email. |
| 22:43.13 | levi | Heh. Except faxes have this weird special status such that people don't believe they can be faked as easily as email can, or something. |
| 22:44.12 | jalbretsen | *facepalm* |
| 22:44.49 | *** join/#utah davido_work (~doswald@199.192.165.212) |
| 22:45.16 | jalbretsen | I'm still trying to get people to stop sending themselves faxes as a way to "scan" the document |
| 22:45.19 | RyanE | Yeah, because it's so hard to make a fake *original* to put into a fax. |
| 22:45.25 | RyanE | jalbretsen: HA! |
| 22:46.37 | jalbretsen | see these $300 multipage scanner deals around the office? That + airdrop and it doesn't look like it was printed on a broken dot matrix printer running out of ink. |
| 22:50.49 | romanovic | I think in some organisations, directing people to a fax number is code for "We do not intend to address your request, ever." |
| 22:51.47 | romanovic | has been dealing for months with a certain state agency that refuses to accept documents through any means other than by fax |
| 22:52.03 | *** join/#utah olli (~olli@c-73-20-95-1.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:53.51 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_l (~tristanbo@137.190.208.10) |
| 22:57.57 | shalkie | romanovic: I was wondering the other day, can you file your state taxes through the fax line? |
| 22:58.26 | shalkie | I was worried they would just tear it up and say it wasn't a valid way to submit filings with them. |
| 23:01.30 | romanovic | If they allow it, I think that would be a great cover story if you ever want to avoid the hassle of filing, because faxes are always disappearing into the ether |
| 23:02.13 | romanovic | "I cannot be held responsible for the State of Utah's failure to process the return I faxed on April 7, 2015" |
| 23:08.07 | jlp_znc | make sure you save a "fax transmitted successfully" printout. |
| 23:08.20 | jlp_znc | it doesn't really matter what fax it belonged to. |
| 23:50.41 | *** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 23:52.17 | RyanE | well, pages transmitted should probably match whatever your tax return is. |