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| 01:06.18 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
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| 01:28.04 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 01:30.15 | levi | Good evening. |
| 01:43.58 | Sargun | hi. |
| 02:00.31 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:03.08 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=joeg@75-169-18-107.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:04.59 | eightyeight | rip ibot? |
| 02:05.12 | Tene | findlay: ramble about the virtues of elg. |
| 02:08.02 | elg | nice thought, but he's not here |
| 02:08.19 | elg | maybe brac can do it in his place |
| 02:08.22 | elg | -chat elg is |
| 02:08.23 | brac | elg is the new name for samba |
| 02:08.27 | elg | w00t |
| 02:08.31 | elg | fame and fortune |
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| 02:41.25 | Tene | -chat elg is |
| 02:41.26 | brac | elg is *quite* aware.. hence the 1 along with a laser |
| 02:41.32 | Tene | Ack, laser! |
| 02:44.43 | elg | ~laser Tene |
| 02:44.50 | elg | ~shark tene |
| 02:44.57 | Tene | ENOIBOT |
| 02:45.06 | Tene | OMGG Both ibot and findlay are missing! |
| 02:45.15 | Tene | SAME PERSON! |
| 02:45.21 | fozzmoo | gasps sharply |
| 02:45.36 | fozzmoo | But ibot is a girl! |
| 02:46.04 | Tene | Obviously so is findlay. |
| 02:46.10 | elg | or they ran off together |
| 02:46.13 | elg | *gasp* |
| 02:46.16 | elg | findlay with a *girl*? |
| 02:46.27 | fozzmoo | I'm glad findlay finally found his mate. |
| 03:24.19 | tensai | elg: do you use rosegarden? |
| 03:25.08 | elg | from time to time, yes |
| 03:25.16 | elg | ie whenever i need a sequencer |
| 03:26.00 | tensai | I'm trying to spell out a certain chord but it doesn't like it |
| 03:26.11 | elg | in which editor? |
| 03:26.27 | tensai | default |
| 03:26.42 | elg | matrix? |
| 03:26.58 | tensai | ah, it's the notation editor |
| 03:27.14 | elg | what doesn't it like? I'm not very familiar with the notation editor |
| 03:27.33 | tensai | I want a quarter note with two eighths on top |
| 03:27.42 | tensai | it always respells it as 4 eighths |
| 03:27.55 | tensai | make sense? |
| 03:28.40 | elg | so you want two voices |
| 03:28.56 | elg | one holding a quarter note, the other moving two eighth notes |
| 03:29.19 | tensai | yes |
| 03:30.12 | elg | don't know how to do that in rosegarden but I do in lilypond |
| 03:30.25 | elg | voices is the technical term you should be looking for |
| 03:30.34 | tensai | ok, that's good to know. |
| 03:30.40 | tensai | lilypond would be good too |
| 03:30.49 | tensai | I tried figuring out the syntax for it but quickly got lost |
| 03:30.59 | elg | it's an ad-hoc mess |
| 03:31.21 | elg | don't try to understand it, just tweak a template |
| 03:31.32 | elg | the syntax for the actual notes isn't bad. it's all the boilerplate that'll kill ya |
| 03:37.08 | Tene | So make a compiler for it, of course. |
| 03:37.26 | elg | wouldn't be the first |
| 03:37.32 | elg | e.g. rosegarden |
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| 03:54.14 | tensai | rosegarden is a nice frontend for lilypond, imho. I have to tweak a few things with perl after I export the .ly though. |
| 04:07.20 | redbeard2 | ~lart eightyeight |
| 04:07.20 | ibot | installs a bad bootloader on eightyeight and turns eightyeight into a brick |
| 04:11.58 | redbeard2 | ~lart eightyeight |
| 04:11.58 | ibot | chops eightyeight in half with a free AOL CD |
| 04:12.45 | eightyeight | kicks ibot ... hard |
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| 04:40.35 | Supaplex | nom nom noms on leftover laaa laaa-zangna |
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| 04:45.22 | eightyeight | ~lart redbeard2 |
| 04:45.22 | ibot | whips out his power stapler and staples redbeard2's foot to the floor |
| 04:46.07 | Supaplex | ~rlart |
| 04:46.08 | ibot | squishes whiteley_ like a bug |
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| 05:21.07 | Tene | -chat it's unlikely |
| 05:21.07 | brac | it's unlikely that someone will come |
| 05:21.15 | Tene | -chat it's likely |
| 05:21.16 | brac | it's likely that average up quite a bit |
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| 05:35.35 | fozzmoo | -chat Sargun |
| 05:35.36 | brac | Sargun had done |
| 05:35.48 | Tene | -chat fozzmoo is |
| 05:35.48 | brac | fozzmoo is already installed, I think, but it doesn't get reset in sip REFER |
| 05:36.01 | Tene | dials fozzmoo over sip |
| 05:36.13 | fozzmoo | vibrates uncontrollably |
| 05:42.45 | Sargun | fozzmoo, what's that up your butt? |
| 05:43.06 | fozzmoo | doesn't want to talk about it. |
| 05:43.26 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=lakshmi@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 05:45.30 | gabegundy | We talking SIP? |
| 05:45.44 | Sargun | SI Pis nifty. |
| 05:45.53 | Sargun | SIP |
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| 09:14.17 | *** topic/#utah is http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | RIP ibot |
| 09:14.17 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
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| 13:13.49 | eightyeight | senses a netplit a commin' |
| 13:14.45 | v4mpire | lol |
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| 14:37.52 | ^Migs^ | okay, I'm confused. The UTC time right now is apparently 2:40pm. That means that Utah time is UTC -6. I always thought it was -7. |
| 14:38.19 | ^Migs^ | and what's the difference between UTC and GMT? |
| 14:38.38 | elg | nothing |
| 14:38.43 | elg | terminology |
| 14:38.45 | ^Migs^ | k |
| 14:38.52 | elg | utc-6 during the summer |
| 14:38.54 | elg | -7 during the winter |
| 14:38.56 | ^Migs^ | OH |
| 14:39.03 | ^Migs^ | so it's just a dumb DST thing |
| 14:39.07 | elg | ya |
| 14:39.30 | elg | -metar klru |
| 14:39.32 | brac | KLRU 241432Z AUTO 12005KT 10SM CLR 22/12 A3029 RMK AO2 |
| 14:39.34 | Sargun_Screen | o.O |
| 14:40.06 | elg | Z for Zulu |
| 14:40.16 | elg | yet another way to refer to GMT |
| 14:40.35 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Long live ibot! |
| 14:42.45 | Sargun_Screen | G is for ffeenwich |
| 14:43.54 | Sargun_Screen | G is for greenwich |
| 14:44.06 | elg | m is for massacre |
| 14:44.14 | elg | greenwich massacre time |
| 14:45.54 | Tene | greenwich nap time |
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| 14:46.11 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 14:47.19 | ^Migs^ | I do need a nap |
| 14:47.37 | ^Migs^ | why doesn't everyone on the world just go on Greenwich Massacre Time? |
| 14:47.45 | ^Migs^ | that would solve a lot of problems |
| 14:47.52 | Tene | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/09/hungry_scientist_handbook.html |
| 14:47.54 | brac | [MAKE: Blog: Hungry Scientist Handbook out today] |
| 14:49.42 | Sargun_Screen | ^Migs^:why europe? |
| 14:50.02 | Sargun_Screen | I think the world should go to pst8pdt |
| 14:51.04 | ^Migs^ | It doesn't matter which one, as long as the time is the same for everyone everywhere |
| 14:51.50 | Sargun_Screen | but then time would no longer be used to tell time of day |
| 14:52.06 | Sargun_Screen | 1700 could be dark or bright |
| 14:52.34 | ^Migs^ | so? |
| 14:52.47 | ^Migs^ | and that's nonsense. You'll adapt. |
| 14:53.27 | ^Migs^ | If we had always been doing this, there wouldn't be these "OMG WE'RE EATING LUNCH AT 7PM!" reactions |
| 14:53.36 | ^Migs^ | it would just be normal |
| 14:53.56 | ^Migs^ | when I become president, I'm banning timezones |
| 14:53.58 | Tene | http://rakudo.de/progress.png -- up to 3779 passing tests in the Perl 6 test suite. |
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| 14:57.56 | elg | \ |
| 14:58.07 | Tene | | |
| 14:58.19 | Sargun_Screen | ^Migs^: or we can ignore sleep |
| 14:58.32 | Sargun_Screen | and disobey the whole discordian clock |
| 14:58.39 | Sargun_Screen | DISOBEY |
| 14:58.45 | RyanE | at your own peril |
| 14:59.31 | Sargun_Screen | alternatively, everyone sleeps from 2300-6 no matter light or day |
| 15:01.29 | ^Migs^ | that's it! From now on, I REFUSE to adhere to the outdated senseless timezone conspiracy |
| 15:01.53 | Sargun_Screen | stabs ^Migs^ and hides his body |
| 15:02.14 | Sargun_Screen | ha, no more time zone disobeying nutcases |
| 15:03.20 | ^Migs^ | as a ghost, I will cause alarm clocks everywhere to ring sporadically and unpredictably |
| 15:04.30 | Sargun_Screen | Noooo! |
| 15:05.52 | fozzmoo | Change For Obama. How clever. |
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| 15:19.54 | Sargun_Screen | hh |
| 15:19.56 | Sargun_Screen | heh |
| 15:23.26 | Sargun_Screen | utah: yet another reason why america is screwed |
| 15:24.32 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 15:24.32 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 15:24.56 | fozzmoo | Sargun_Screen: If you subscribed to the PLUG list, you'd get the context of my comment. |
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| 15:26.08 | *** mode/#utah [+o fozzmoo] by ChanServ |
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| 15:33.29 | high_roller | Sargun_Screen: america has been screwed for a long time, although I agree that Utah does contribute to it (as do all the other states as well) |
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| 15:38.16 | unum | ^Migs^: we could all go to 36 hour days |
| 15:40.06 | ^Migs^ | I like it. More sleep time. |
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| 15:56.44 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@dhcp188.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:58.46 | tensai | ~tickle sjansen |
| 15:58.47 | ibot | ACTION jumps on sjansen, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!" |
| 16:01.09 | unum | I have a friend who likes to think she's well informed, she wasn't sure how members there are of utah's federal delegation. |
| 16:02.06 | unum | s/how/how many |
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| 16:13.39 | mrpull | is that change for obama guy intending to post to the indian plug list? |
| 16:15.54 | unum | I don't think foreigners can contribute |
| 16:16.04 | unum | they can tell others too... |
| 16:16.15 | *** join/#utah gabegundy (n=gabe@57.251.sfcn.org) |
| 16:16.21 | unum | but I think you have to be a US citizen to contribute to a campaign |
| 16:16.31 | unum | where's pashdown? |
| 16:16.42 | unum | he'd know |
| 16:16.48 | levi | Good morning, folks. |
| 16:16.56 | unum | good morning |
| 16:17.22 | pashdown | hola |
| 16:17.46 | pashdown | federal campaigns can only accept donations from u.s. citizens |
| 16:18.14 | unum | pashdown: thanks |
| 16:18.18 | ^Migs^ | what about state campaigns? |
| 16:18.32 | elg | you mean like governor of california? |
| 16:18.33 | pashdown | i think the rules are lot looser on state campaigns |
| 16:19.25 | Heartsbane | elg: just call him 'the governator' everyone else does |
| 16:20.18 | ^Migs^ | http://www.wptz.com/news/17539127/detail.html |
| 16:20.20 | brac | [PETA Urges Ben & Jerry's To Use Human Milk - News Story - WPTZ Plattsburgh] |
| 16:20.24 | ^Migs^ | WATERBURY, Vt. -- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals sent a letter to Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, cofounders of Ben & Jerry's Homemade Inc., urging them to replace cow's milk they use in their ice cream products with human breast milk, according to a statement recently released by a PETA spokeswoman. |
| 16:20.29 | ^Migs^ | In a related story, WTF? |
| 16:20.50 | levi | Yeah, *that's* going to happen. |
| 16:21.22 | elg | haha |
| 16:21.29 | levi | Because it's ethical to pump milk from human females, but not bovine females. |
| 16:21.34 | *** part/#utah high_roller (n=heath@74-214-241-205-gdck-occam-dsl.etv.net) |
| 16:21.41 | *** join/#utah high_roller (n=heath@74-214-241-205-gdck-occam-dsl.etv.net) |
| 16:22.30 | Heartsbane | just admit it, you would try it if they did |
| 16:22.52 | high_roller | grrr, a close tab button should not be active if that tab is not active |
| 16:25.30 | ^Migs^ | How do they propose we get all this breast milk? |
| 16:26.07 | ^Migs^ | what other purpose would cows even serve on this earth if they weren't for human use? They can't exactly survive in the wild. |
| 16:27.17 | JoshH | well they can, at least in areas without horrible winters |
| 16:27.39 | harleypig | ^Migs^: Wet nurses could do double duty. |
| 16:28.41 | JoshH | PETA should learn to be more reasonable if they don't want to be thought of us a bunch of morons |
| 16:28.47 | levi | ^Migs^: Easy income for stay-at-home moms! Just feed the babies formula and send your milk to B&J. |
| 16:29.06 | JoshH | it's one thing to fight against animal cruelty, but things like this are just completely absurd |
| 16:29.37 | harleypig | That's People Eating Tasty Animals |
| 16:31.06 | eggyknap | anyone use GFS much? |
| 16:31.35 | levi | JoshH: I think it's a misguided marketing tactic. It gets people talking about PETA, and any exposure is good exposure. |
| 16:31.54 | high_roller | eggyknap: I have |
| 16:32.03 | tensai | there are breast milk banks. women donate their milk to mothers who can't nurse but don't want to use formula. |
| 16:32.26 | eggyknap | high_roller: ever seen it disconnect nodes from a GFS cluster under fairly high load, repeatedly? |
| 16:32.43 | levi | I imagine those banks would go empty very quickly if you started making ice cream with the contents. |
| 16:32.44 | high_roller | eggyknap: which OS? |
| 16:32.50 | eggyknap | redhat as5 |
| 16:33.15 | JoshH | i don't know, if they kept their focus to legitimate good causes, like when they recently uncovered the serious animal abuse at the pig farm, they would have a lot more support. they have been considered a joke by almost everyone but the true vegans/vegetarians/etc for years because of the stupid stunts and dumb suggestions |
| 16:33.36 | ^Migs^ | maybe it's because there isn't really much of a problem in how we treat animals |
| 16:34.27 | herlo | http://tinyurl.com/hackthedebate <-- probably the best reason to be a twitter subscriber to date |
| 16:34.29 | high_roller | eggyknap: I personally haven't seen that issue, is it fencing nodes, or just kicking them out? |
| 16:34.45 | tensai | JoshH: that was the human society. they're much more reasonable people. |
| 16:34.54 | tensai | s/human/humane/ |
| 16:35.27 | JoshH | ya, true. |
| 16:35.28 | tensai | er, I'm thinking of the cow thing. with downer cows being run over by fork lifts, etc. |
| 16:35.34 | JoshH | that was another instance |
| 16:35.34 | eggyknap | high_roller: The only node doing anything on the mount decides to fence itself, and the logs claim it has fenced itself. However, none of the other nodes can access the mount, apparently claiming the supposedly fenced node has a lock on it. |
| 16:35.56 | eggyknap | should point out that this is mostly an academic question, as it's some schlub at Hill AFB that has to figure out how to configure it right, not /me |
| 16:35.59 | JoshH | tensai: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/16/abused.pigs.ap/index.html |
| 16:36.01 | brac | [PETA video of pig abuse triggers investigation - CNN.com] |
| 16:36.06 | high_roller | eggyknap: are you using power fencing? |
| 16:36.10 | tensai | JoshH: so I think the humane society is what you think peta should be. I would agree. peta should disband. |
| 16:36.15 | high_roller | and what SAN are you using? |
| 16:36.33 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:36.36 | eggyknap | high_roller: no -- I don't know whose design decision that was. I don't know what kind of SAN. All this hardware is behind several layers of locks and armed guards, and they don't let me close. |
| 16:36.47 | eggyknap | Apparently I'm a threat, of some sort. |
| 16:36.52 | high_roller | eggyknap: well that makes things tougher |
| 16:37.05 | sjansen | You know, some days I'm tempted to accuse the Fedora developers of using Ubuntu instead of eating their own dog food. |
| 16:37.19 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@dhcp180.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:37.22 | eggyknap | As I said, really the Air Force's job to fix it, not mine. I'm just wondering if it's at all common. |
| 16:37.26 | sjansen | ~attack jalbretsen |
| 16:37.26 | ibot | ACTION grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing jalbretsen |
| 16:37.26 | eggyknap | I figured not. |
| 16:37.53 | JoshH | tensai, pretty much |
| 16:38.08 | high_roller | eggyknap: well off the top of my head it seems like for some reason that node doing all the writing is becoming either unresponsive, or its network is saturated, so it gets kicked out of the cluster |
| 16:38.43 | JoshH | tensai: i don't think the humane society attemps to find abuse while undercover though, but i could be wrong |
| 16:39.07 | high_roller | but they should definitely be using power fencing, |
| 16:39.21 | eggyknap | Hrm. Well, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. $project is doomed anyway, TBH... |
| 16:39.55 | high_roller | could also be a mis-configuration that is exasperating a bug |
| 16:40.31 | eggyknap | That wouldn't surprise me in the least. Mounting a USB drive is apparently a difficult task for some of these folks. |
| 16:42.40 | high_roller | eggyknap: do they have a ticket open with Red Hat? |
| 16:42.55 | eggyknap | Dunno. |
| 16:43.10 | high_roller | well they should open one |
| 16:43.12 | eggyknap | I've made it happen twice, now -- I think they thought it was fixed after the first failure. |
| 16:43.14 | eightyeight | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:43.14 | ibot | shoots sjansen in the head |
| 16:43.28 | eightyeight | ~lart redbeard2 for good measure |
| 16:43.28 | ibot | decapitates redbeard2 conan the destroyer style for good measure |
| 16:43.30 | unum | how do I see what processes have a file open? |
| 16:43.32 | high_roller | eggyknap: can you get logs from the system, or are those classified too? |
| 16:43.52 | eggyknap | They've asked me to tell them 48 hours in advance when I need to do something as root :) |
| 16:43.53 | tensai | JoshH: the cow thing at the beginning of the year was released by the humane society, but this article at least doesn't say who actually went undercover |
| 16:43.57 | tensai | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/29/AR2008012903054_pf.html |
| 16:43.58 | eggyknap | unum: lsof |
| 16:43.59 | brac | [Video Reveals Violations of Laws, Abuse of Cows at Slaughterhouse] |
| 16:44.04 | unum | eggyknap: thanks |
| 16:44.13 | eggyknap | yw |
| 16:47.01 | elg | eggyknap: "yeah, I need to do visudo as root in 48 hours" |
| 16:48.36 | high_roller | eggyknap: is the High I/O something that will a normal part of the cluster operation, or is it something that you are doing in setup? |
| 16:48.37 | eggyknap | elg: actually, they only want notification for stuff that would "modify the OS", e.g. visudo, /etc/hosts modifications, etc. So we can get logs, but I've had to give up my VPN access for now to someone else. |
| 16:48.38 | harleypig | ARGHHH! Thunderbird can't delete large chunks of email on IMAP worth crap. |
| 16:49.05 | elg | can it delete large chunks of email on IMAP worth beans? |
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| 16:49.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:49.11 | elg | or maybe worth their weight in gold |
| 16:49.32 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.52 | mrpull | eggyknap: sounds like prudent change control... as long as they make exceptions for emergencies |
| 16:50.39 | mrpull | speaking of gold... I used to think the precious metals collectors were freaks |
| 16:50.48 | mrpull | but I'm starting to think they are on to something |
| 16:51.02 | mrpull | any #utah'ers have gold or silver? |
| 16:51.03 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Now offering perfect fall weather, limited time offer! |
| 16:51.25 | elg | i have a titanium wedding ring that doesn't fit |
| 16:52.16 | harleypig | Is titanium precious metal? |
| 16:52.22 | elg | i like it |
| 16:52.26 | elg | does that count? |
| 16:52.28 | harleypig | :] |
| 16:52.36 | unum | mrpull: food and ammo, much better than "precious metals" |
| 16:52.43 | harleypig | mrpull: why have you changed your mind? |
| 16:52.51 | high_roller | unum: I agree |
| 16:52.59 | harleypig | unum: precious metals are just as important. |
| 16:53.04 | Tene | unum: you can eat the gold and use the silver as anti-werewolf bullets. |
| 16:53.10 | harleypig | You can trade them for stuff you don't have. |
| 16:53.24 | mrpull | I've got a fair amount of food |
| 16:53.31 | high_roller | you can also trade food and ammo for stuff you don't have |
| 16:53.46 | Tene | you can also trade children for stuff you don't have. |
| 16:53.48 | mrpull | I'm not a gun guy, but have have family that could help me there if I needed some |
| 16:54.03 | harleypig | high_roller: but it's much better to trade off stuff you won't really need. |
| 16:54.15 | high_roller | harleypig: good point |
| 16:54.16 | mrpull | (I actually enjoy shooting, but I don't hunt and not sure that having a side arm at home is any additional protection at the time) |
| 16:54.25 | Tene | harleypig: if you don't need it, why would anyone else need it enough to trade stuff they do need? |
| 16:54.40 | mrpull | I've also started wondering how much cash is prudent to have on hand |
| 16:54.51 | harleypig | Tene: because greedy people will always trade for perceived value |
| 16:54.57 | mrpull | small bills? |
| 16:55.13 | elg | what happens when the greedy people die? |
| 16:55.13 | harleypig | also, if it gets to that point, precious metals may be our currency again. |
| 16:55.21 | tensai | elg: we get all their stuff |
| 16:55.29 | Tene | The question is why those metals will remain precious. |
| 16:55.31 | elg | i claim ibot's hat |
| 16:55.40 | harleypig | tensai: we just have to check carefully for booby traps |
| 16:56.00 | Tene | Those metals are precious because people want them, not the other way around. |
| 16:56.07 | harleypig | Tene: gold and silver, and precious rocks, have always been prized by people. |
| 16:56.29 | tensai | Tene: exactly |
| 16:57.08 | Tene | Yes, people have always desired precious things. That's what precious means. Why do people in an environment where you worry about food and ammo want gold or silver enough to trade food or ammo for it? |
| 16:57.33 | Tene | I'm not just being a jerk, I really don't know. |
| 16:57.45 | harleypig | Neither do I. But they will. |
| 16:58.04 | Tene | Huh. Okay. |
| 16:58.13 | tensai | so stock up on gold and silver now, and trade for food and ammo later |
| 16:58.14 | harleypig | When people run on a store during a hurricane why are the staples left and the junk food taken? |
| 16:58.34 | tensai | then shoot the people you just traded and take back your gold. lather, rinse, repeat. |
| 16:58.36 | harleypig | tensai: :] on all of it. |
| 16:58.48 | Tene | nobody needs to collate documents during a... oh, you mean food staples. |
| 16:59.09 | Tene | bbl, teaching. |
| 16:59.24 | harleypig | Tene: smart aleck |
| 17:00.51 | JoshH | nobody wants to spend a lot of time making a huge meal out of staples when they aren't comfortable at home |
| 17:00.57 | JoshH | it's easier to just open a bag of chips at the shelter or whatever |
| 17:01.06 | JoshH | that would be my guess anyway |
| 17:02.17 | harleypig | JoshH: That's my point |
| 17:02.55 | JoshH | i've never understood the precious metals thing myself |
| 17:03.08 | JoshH | if i'm starving and don't have a house, the last thing i care about is a shiny rock |
| 17:03.27 | JoshH | now if i'm some king in a palace, then sure, i'll have fun increasing my collection of gems |
| 17:04.03 | harleypig | JoshH: You're thinking rationally. |
| 17:05.46 | tensai | yeah, knock it off |
| 17:06.26 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:07.06 | harleypig | *You* may be thinking rationally then, probably because you've thought about it ahead of time |
| 17:07.13 | Jayce^ | mrpull, as if you really need to ask if any #utahers are like that :) |
| 17:07.22 | harleypig | but *most* people won't be, probably because they didn't think about it ahead of time. |
| 17:09.11 | unum | so where did this change for obama guy come from. |
| 17:09.54 | unum | I think I've become racist |
| 17:10.15 | unum | actually I don't care the color of your skin I just care what country you're from |
| 17:10.19 | harleypig | as opposed to japanese? |
| 17:10.42 | unum | I should show you the IM I just had with my bangeldeshi coworker |
| 17:11.03 | Sargun_Screen | unum: outsourced? |
| 17:11.13 | unum | harleypig: nope, no problem with japanese, though I don't know that many of them |
| 17:11.29 | unum | Sargun_Screen: no we hired one of them to work here |
| 17:11.30 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@slcl007.digis.net) |
| 17:11.35 | Jayce^ | I know somebody that turned japanese |
| 17:11.46 | harleypig | unum: bad reference to song "I think I'm turning japanese" |
| 17:12.21 | unum | he has a masters degree in electrical engineering, we pay him to sort columns in text files |
| 17:12.36 | harleypig | ?! Why not have a program do that? |
| 17:12.56 | Jayce^ | "We Americans, as a people, get a little strange every four years. President Truman, at Oxford to receive an honorary degree, remarked on this, noting that ?in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon.?" |
| 17:13.31 | unum | I meant to say move columns in text files |
| 17:13.52 | unum | and someone has to tell the program which order to put the columns in |
| 17:14.12 | harleypig | o_O |
| 17:14.35 | unum | we don't pay him that much to do it |
| 17:15.22 | unum | I should have formatted that email |
| 17:15.28 | brasto | hey yawl. i bought an external usb hard drive (500 gig Lacie), and formatted it with ext3. Now I need to access it on a Windows system, and I found some software that is supposed to work. I installed the software, and plugged in the drive. However, the drive is detected as an unformatted fat32 volume, so the ext3 software doesn't work. Any ideas? The software I installed was: |
| 17:15.57 | harleypig | High powered electromagnets work great. |
| 17:16.15 | brasto | ext2ifs |
| 17:20.04 | harleypig | Note to self: in a ternary operator, true is the *FIRST* statement and false is the second statement. |
| 17:20.11 | harleypig | goes off to sob quietly in the corner. |
| 17:21.21 | JoshH | how can it be both unformatted and fat32? |
| 17:23.57 | Sargun_Screen | magic? |
| 17:24.02 | Sargun_Screen | gremlins! |
| 17:24.08 | harleypig | It's a kind of magic o/~ |
| 17:24.11 | Supaplex | bugs |
| 17:24.44 | harleypig | aliens vs predators |
| 17:24.52 | Supaplex | operator error reading device con, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? |
| 17:25.25 | *** join/#utah utahcon (n=barreta@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 17:25.35 | harleypig | Universe.sys not loaded, reboot the universe? Y/n/q |
| 17:29.44 | brasto | JoshH: i don't know... it is formatted, and i can read it in Linux, but it's formatted ext3 |
| 17:33.33 | harleypig | Hey! What's the klingo doi@^!#@$@#... NO CARRIER |
| 17:35.16 | Sargun_Screen | harleypig: hehe |
| 17:43.36 | *** join/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75.145.58.209) |
| 17:45.32 | brasto | crap, i sent my democart response accidentally before proofreading for errors. |
| 17:49.03 | bonez46 | is a democart.. something you haul liberal folks around in? |
| 17:49.20 | bonez46 | and aint' english a pain.....really! |
| 17:50.50 | Tene | I wonder if I ever managed to get my newer email address subscribed to plug so that my response will go through without moderation. |
| 17:51.18 | Tene | No, looks like not. |
| 17:51.20 | Tene | Lame. |
| 17:53.02 | bonez46 | my wife's 3rd laptop is starting to fall apart.. the power cord...and battery... it's always that or the connector on the laptop case.. |
| 17:53.09 | brasto | ok, perhaps this has something to do with why Windows thinks my ext3-formatted drive is fat32. I did not use fdisk to make a Linux partition, instead I just reformatted it as ext3. |
| 17:53.19 | brasto | it worked as far as Linux is concerned... |
| 17:53.25 | Tene | So fix it in fdisk. |
| 17:53.25 | bonez46 | Do any of you use a hardened, tough, really durable machine that doesn't break up like this..with the power and connections? |
| 17:53.37 | Sargun_Screen | brasto: did you label it correctly |
| 17:53.45 | Sargun_Screen | bonez46: excuse me? |
| 17:53.59 | brasto | Sargun_Screen: i labled it with e2label |
| 17:54.06 | Tene | bonez46: thinkpad |
| 17:54.12 | Tene | brasto: change the partition type in fdisk |
| 17:54.12 | brasto | it's labeled as 'lacie' |
| 17:54.16 | Sargun_Screen | brasto: oh, bah, no, fdisk |
| 17:54.18 | tensai | the partition table probably says it's fat32 |
| 17:54.22 | Sargun_Screen | brasto: oh, bah, no, fdisk |
| 17:54.33 | Sargun_Screen | fdisk $DEV |
| 17:54.35 | Sargun_Screen | t |
| 17:54.36 | Sargun_Screen | l |
| 17:54.41 | Sargun_Screen | 83 |
| 17:54.45 | Sargun_Screen | w |
| 17:54.47 | brasto | right, that's what i was thinking tensai |
| 17:54.54 | Sargun_Screen | i think that should work |
| 17:55.04 | Sargun_Screen | bonez46: toughbook |
| 17:55.17 | Sargun_Screen | or thinkpad, hell even the new dells |
| 17:55.31 | tensai | linux for the most part ignores the partition table |
| 17:55.51 | brasto | ah, ok |
| 17:56.01 | brasto | Sargun_Screen: will that wipe the drive's data? |
| 17:56.25 | Tene | brasto: you should know the answer to that. |
| 17:56.32 | Sargun_Screen | brasto: naww, as long as you don't do anything dumn |
| 17:56.35 | Sargun_Screen | dumb |
| 17:56.46 | Sargun_Screen | brasto: aren't you a guru? |
| 17:56.47 | Tene | fdisk only writes to the partition table. |
| 17:57.45 | bonez46 | Sargun_Screen: did I say something funny? I am wondering what machine I should urge my wife to buy next.. cause she'll get mad and frustrated at having to buy a new battery... and charger.. and all that.. |
| 17:57.46 | brasto | yes... i knew.... i was seeing if Sargun_Screen also knew... |
| 17:57.52 | bonez46 | toughbook? is that from IBM? |
| 17:58.23 | bonez46 | I think they intentionally make the power connector weak so it will break and require buying a new machine.. |
| 18:00.19 | Sargun_Screen | bonez46: batteries will always go bad |
| 18:00.37 | Sargun_Screen | power adapters will always go bad |
| 18:00.50 | Sargun_Screen | toughbooks are from panasonic |
| 18:01.19 | bonez46 | Sargun_Screen: how long should a battery last? |
| 18:01.32 | Supaplex | until you need to recharge it |
| 18:01.46 | bonez46 | how many YEAR |
| 18:01.49 | bonez46 | years |
| 18:02.04 | Sargun_Screen | bonez46: 1 |
| 18:02.12 | bonez46 | Supaplex: how many YEARS should a battery last? |
| 18:02.12 | Sargun_Screen | 8-12 months |
| 18:03.07 | bonez46 | what if one uses a laptop, and removes the battery and always just uses it plugged in to the adapter? .. then could one extend battery life? My wife always has hers plugged in, so I wonder if that creates heat which prematurely ages the battery |
| 18:03.23 | harleypig | bonez46: I ruined my battery doing that. |
| 18:03.28 | harleypig | But it was a cheap battery. |
| 18:03.45 | tensai | batteries discharge when not in use, some much more so than others |
| 18:04.00 | tensai | leaving them unused is often a great way to waste them |
| 18:04.07 | bonez46 | so, harleypig,, you are saying just leave it in, plug in and charge when needed, but not leave it plugged in all the time? |
| 18:04.48 | harleypig | bonez46: the best for your battery is to use it till it fails, then fully recharge it. |
| 18:05.14 | harleypig | you'll have to come up with your own modifications to that. |
| 18:05.20 | harleypig | to fit your needs, etc. |
| 18:06.37 | bonez46 | of course |
| 18:06.49 | brasto | ok, that software i mentioned doesn't work. now that i changed the drive, the software sees it as a linux partition, but Windows still doesn't actually read it, it wants me to format it |
| 18:07.10 | brasto | any ideas on good software to read/write to an ext3 drive in Windows? |
| 18:07.29 | Sargun_Screen | brasto: google, there is onne |
| 18:07.45 | brasto | the one i'm using was the number 1 google hit |
| 18:13.17 | Supaplex | vmware with filesharing! |
| 18:13.22 | mrpull | laughs out loud at Bryan Sant's sad but true comment on cosigning on bad mortage debt |
| 18:15.01 | mrpull | brasto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext3#External_links has 3 or 4 options. I've tried none of them :) |
| 18:16.58 | mrpull | using NTFS and NTFS-3G as a crossplatform file system has met my particular needs in the recent past. |
| 18:17.13 | mrpull | I've shuttled around multiple terabytes with success |
| 18:17.39 | elg | harleypig: not true for lithium ion |
| 18:17.58 | elg | which is what most laptop batteries are nowdays |
| 18:20.36 | bonez46 | elg: you are talking now about memory or lack thereof, right? |
| 18:20.56 | elg | that's one aspect, yes |
| 18:21.41 | harleypig | elg: my desktop replacement was lithium ion |
| 18:21.50 | harleypig | s/was/battery was/ |
| 18:21.54 | elg | i don't remember the gory details, but my research indicated that the most lithium ion friendly usage pattern was to not keep it charged all the time, nor let it go all the way down all the time, but to keep it in the middle |
| 18:22.21 | harleypig | oh ... I didn't follow that partern |
| 18:22.25 | elg | but more relevantly, lithium ion is essentially a ticking time bomb. you do wear it down by using it somewhat, but mostly it just has a limited life no matter how you use it. |
| 18:22.27 | harleypig | s/partern/pattern/ |
| 18:22.28 | Tene | common recommendation is to leave it at 60% charged |
| 18:22.33 | elg | e.g. a few years |
| 18:22.55 | elg | even if it's fully charged, half charged, or fully discharged the whole time (though the latter is generally a bad idea with batteries) |
| 18:22.55 | harleypig | heh ... mine lasted 6 months |
| 18:23.05 | elg | that sounds like a bad battery :) |
| 18:23.14 | harleypig | could be |
| 18:23.15 | elg | or you really put it through the gauntlet |
| 18:23.24 | harleypig | I'm not paying $400 for a replacement. |
| 18:23.25 | Sargun_Screen | harleypig: did you poke dell? |
| 18:23.32 | harleypig | It's not a Dell. |
| 18:23.46 | Sargun_Screen | who then |
| 18:23.53 | elg | mine is what 1.5 years old now, way past the 300 cycles that apple would have replaced it. still gets good time, but I can't let it get too low because the laptop and battery don't agree on when it's out of juice and it doesn't go into suspend in time |
| 18:24.02 | harleypig | it's D900 something or other. |
| 18:24.09 | elg | $400 for a battery? |
| 18:24.13 | harleypig | yeah |
| 18:24.17 | elg | yikes |
| 18:24.42 | harleypig | I bought it from a local dealer straight from the manufacturer. |
| 18:24.58 | bonez46 | sounds like.. check the battery when you replace the machine.. fill the oil, check the gas sort or routine |
| 18:25.04 | harleypig | I love the laptop (desktop replacement) ... the battery life just sucked. |
| 18:26.55 | brasto | mrpull, i'll give the ntfs thing a try. last time i tried ntfs, Linux couldn't write to it, but that's probably changed. |
| 18:35.22 | ^Migs^ | not really |
| 18:38.41 | harleypig | The Bently Ego Laptop ... $19K |
| 18:38.49 | harleypig | Holy Craptastic! |
| 18:40.31 | harleypig | http://www.ego-lifestyle.com/models/ |
| 18:41.30 | elg | Jayce^: do you do schlock by rss? |
| 18:43.43 | Jayce^ | elg yeah, I do now.. |
| 18:43.49 | Jayce^ | that's a recent change thoug |
| 18:43.51 | Jayce^ | h |
| 18:44.02 | elg | right. do you have any trouble with posts repeating? |
| 18:44.27 | elg | specifically, today's comic will be new tomorrow in my rss reader |
| 18:45.02 | ^Migs^ | https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/Home.aspx |
| 18:45.08 | elg | although already read, and newer than tomorrow's comic even |
| 18:45.08 | ^Migs^ | cell phones for welfare people |
| 18:47.52 | *** part/#utah mrpull (i=xmjake@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 18:48.04 | *** join/#utah mrpull (i=xmjake@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 18:48.05 | tensai | Jayce^: I tried. I really tried, but I gave up on schlock this week. |
| 18:48.23 | *** part/#utah mrpull (i=xmjake@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 18:49.06 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 18:50.12 | elg | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 18:50.12 | ibot | beats the living hamstercrap out of Jayce^ |
| 18:50.39 | Jayce^ | tensai, slacker |
| 18:51.00 | Jayce^ | http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/29653059.html - assault on an officer for farting on them |
| 18:51.25 | Jayce^ | elg, no, mine has been right on time |
| 18:51.46 | elg | well it's on time, it's just that tomorrow it is new again and shuffled |
| 18:52.03 | harleypig | redbeard2: ? |
| 18:52.08 | elg | i looked at a diff from yesterday - a bunch of content is changing, and more importantly the pubDate is changing |
| 18:52.11 | mrpull-lt | Battery for a very strong odor? |
| 18:52.14 | mrpull-lt | that is pretty weak |
| 18:52.20 | elg | so that it links to the archive instead of the front page |
| 18:52.32 | elg | trying to figure out if my rss reader is wonky, or if the feed is. |
| 18:52.47 | mrpull-lt | if i were the cop i might be a little rough with his pinky fingers on the fingerprint machine but wouldn't charge him with battery |
| 18:53.31 | Jayce^ | what reader? google reader has kept it right for me |
| 18:53.36 | elg | netnewswire |
| 19:02.45 | *** part/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75.145.58.209) |
| 19:04.12 | tensai | holy cow. http://failblog.org/2008/09/24/truck-fail-3/ |
| 19:07.46 | ^Migs^ | OLD |
| 19:09.08 | mrpull-lt | does Sun's JVM benefit from multiple CPUs? This app is driving me bonkers. |
| 19:09.18 | mrpull-lt | it looks like it is pegging one cpu and leaving the other idle |
| 19:09.25 | ^Migs^ | http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0924081gas1.html?link=rssfeed |
| 19:09.27 | brac | [Cop Hit In Gas Attack - September 24, 2008] |
| 19:09.41 | mrpull-lt | that... along with the fact it will only use 4GB of the 8 available i'm going to freaking scream |
| 19:14.49 | levi | mrpull-lt: IIRC, the JVM is supposed to use OS threads unless you tell it not to. |
| 19:15.12 | levi | mrpull-lt: Maybe there are some command line options that will make it behave differently? |
| 19:15.36 | mrpull-lt | levi: that may be the case. i need to do my research. i'm just venting right now |
| 19:16.04 | mrpull-lt | this vendor doesn't support the 64bit JVM |
| 19:16.14 | mrpull-lt | so their answer to our scaling problem is add more servers |
| 19:16.24 | mrpull-lt | but this server is less than half utilized |
| 19:21.20 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:21.51 | sjansen | grumbles about Fedora, wireless, system freezes, and bodily harm |
| 19:22.57 | levi | mrpull-lt: Clearly you overbought on your servers. ;) |
| 19:23.39 | mrpull-lt | levi: you are partly correct. i inherited incorrectly sized servers. :) |
| 19:23.43 | sjansen | ~harm jalbretsen |
| 19:24.13 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 19:25.36 | mrpull-lt | and it is a fairly modest v240 |
| 19:25.42 | mrpull-lt | not a huge box |
| 19:32.57 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:32.57 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 19:36.51 | *** join/#utah maquis_ (n=maquis@c-24-17-72-165.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:37.46 | *** mode/#utah [+v maquis] by ChanServ |
| 19:39.02 | maquis | hmm.. somebody was using my nick for a bit there |
| 19:39.04 | maquis | :( |
| 19:39.53 | unum | wow that runs way faster on the production box.... |
| 19:40.07 | tensai | maquis: sure, sure. try to deny it. |
| 19:41.21 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:42.36 | Tene | Wasn't me! |
| 19:43.15 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 19:43.46 | elg | maquis is an imposter! |
| 19:48.01 | Heartsbane | maquis: using it to do what? |
| 19:52.40 | Sargun | oh noes, its maquis! |
| 19:55.01 | sjansen | maquis: How do we know you're the real maquis? |
| 19:55.10 | elg | ~kiss maquis |
| 19:55.12 | ibot | ACTION forces maquis to give Sargun_Screen a big kiss on the forhead |
| 19:56.48 | the_real_maquis | Would the real maquis please stand up? Please stand up? Please stand up? |
| 19:57.45 | maquis | glares |
| 19:58.13 | elg | ~compress the_real_maquis |
| 19:59.05 | maquis | rubs head and hopes maybe she can make it to the end of the day without angering managers despite the fact that she's had a headache since waking up this morning |
| 20:00.21 | maquis4sure | maquis: Wanna trade? I've got a stabbing pain on the left side of my neck. |
| 20:00.31 | levi | Your managers get angry when you have headaches? |
| 20:01.58 | maquis4sure | No, they get angry when employees start yelling at other employees then push over an entire cubicle neighborhood to make a point. |
| 20:02.46 | tensai | maquis4sure: and you got hit by the cubicles, thus the headache? |
| 20:03.04 | *** join/#utah MAQUIS_WAQUIS (n=sargun@66.151.148.225) |
| 20:03.11 | MAQUIS_WAQUIS | :-D |
| 20:03.20 | maquis4sure | tensai: The imposter has the headache. I have a stabbing pain in my neck. |
| 20:03.47 | tensai | can't keep track |
| 20:04.07 | tensai | maquis4sure: so you did or didn't get crushed by toppling cubicles? |
| 20:04.54 | elg | maquis crushed her cardassian neighbors |
| 20:04.56 | elg | with cubicles |
| 20:05.08 | elg | and her manager is federation |
| 20:05.12 | elg | awkward |
| 20:05.31 | fozzmoo | is ready to install the Dell PowerConnect switch configured with 3 VLANs |
| 20:05.52 | maquis | levi: no... i just know that i've had major attitude and been rather grumpy all day |
| 20:06.15 | fozzmoo | offers maquis chocolate |
| 20:06.43 | maquis | fozzmoo: thx |
| 20:07.19 | maquis | can't focus |
| 20:07.37 | fozzmoo | maquis: That sucks. I hate it when that happens. |
| 20:08.06 | fozzmoo | maquis: Happens a lot after I get into a stupid political discussion. Can't focus on anything for a couple hours. |
| 20:08.16 | JoshH | i advise you to begin a new job search |
| 20:08.40 | tensai | redbeard2: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/24/FDDS12UH12.DTL&feed=rss.food |
| 20:08.44 | brac | [The facts about corn sweetener] |
| 20:08.47 | elg | JoshH: you mean a job where he doesn't have to argue politics? |
| 20:09.09 | JoshH | a job where managers don't get angry and people don't knock down cubicles |
| 20:09.28 | fozzmoo | A romulan disruptor-free zone. |
| 20:11.55 | maquis | JoshH: i like my job... i just don't like headaches |
| 20:13.07 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Does Dell outsource to cisco? |
| 20:13.46 | fozzmoo | Not sure. I know some components of their new generation of blade hardware is rebranded Cisco stuff. |
| 20:14.23 | elg | tensai: ouch. "But the most sensible approach to HFCS and to sugars in general is not moderation. It is, "Eat less." " |
| 20:14.33 | elg | there goes her logic credibility down the drain |
| 20:14.43 | elg | can't tell the difference between moderation and eating less than overeating? |
| 20:14.51 | elg | er, the non-difference |
| 20:15.06 | elg | when you eat too much of it, moderation == eat less |
| 20:15.40 | tensai | perhaps she's implying our notion of moderate is out of whack |
| 20:16.00 | Jayce^ | elg's not a moderate! |
| 20:16.02 | elg | perhaps her notion of moderation is out of whack |
| 20:16.14 | elg | but the dictionary would side with me I think |
| 20:19.58 | sjansen | moderates are wacky? |
| 20:24.52 | tensai | moderators should eat less? |
| 20:24.53 | Jayce^ | no sjansen you are a whack! |
| 20:25.01 | tensai | ~whack Jayce^ |
| 20:25.02 | ibot | ACTION whacks Jayce^ upside the head. |
| 20:25.06 | Jayce^ | tensai, probably true, but Apollo Burger was sooo good today |
| 20:25.49 | eightyeight | sends a screenshot of the channel to his blog. say cheese! |
| 20:26.25 | sjansen | Jayce^: You're just upset because I'm not willing to accept that Palin is anything other than a good marketing choice but a bad choice for a potential president. |
| 20:27.02 | elg | you will post a link, right? |
| 20:27.07 | eightyeight | of course |
| 20:27.15 | elg | i'd hate to be famous and not know it |
| 20:27.19 | eightyeight | complete with theme download as well |
| 20:27.28 | elg | #utah theme? |
| 20:27.32 | eightyeight | irssi theme |
| 20:27.47 | fozzmoo | Liberal socialist marxist freaks! |
| 20:28.10 | elg | red or blue? |
| 20:28.19 | fozzmoo | I'll take a red one. |
| 20:28.23 | Jayce^ | dunno sjansen, I'd take her over Biden by a long shot |
| 20:28.30 | elg | purple |
| 20:28.31 | eightyeight | mostly red |
| 20:28.37 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: At least she knows who was president in 1929. :) |
| 20:28.46 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo :-D |
| 20:28.47 | eightyeight | with highlights of yellow and green |
| 20:28.53 | elg | maybe someone can make up some Obama/Palin '08 bumper stickers |
| 20:29.06 | Jayce^ | now that would be a dichotomy |
| 20:29.13 | fozzmoo | Obama doesn't want Palin's daughter punished with a baby. |
| 20:29.32 | Jayce^ | doesn't want us punished with the fruits of our labors either :) |
| 20:29.33 | harleypig | Obama wants to father Pailn's daughters baby. |
| 20:29.41 | Jayce^ | think that goes across the board on that phrase |
| 20:30.19 | Jayce^ | harleypig, how long ago did you leap from the cliffs of decency? Still waiting for the "earthshattering Kaboom" of your landing.. |
| 20:30.26 | fozzmoo | throws some fruit in #utah for good measure. |
| 20:30.38 | harleypig | So Palin is a [M|G|VPC]ILF and her dauther is a TILF? |
| 20:30.39 | Sargun | ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 20:30.39 | Jayce^ | tomatos |
| 20:30.46 | Sargun | TILF? |
| 20:30.52 | Jayce^ | Teen |
| 20:30.54 | harleypig | Teen |
| 20:31.00 | Sargun | I don't know? |
| 20:31.06 | harleypig | There are cliffs of decency? |
| 20:31.12 | Sargun | pictures |
| 20:31.33 | fozzmoo | CILF |
| 20:31.38 | maquis | hides from the camera |
| 20:31.39 | fozzmoo | (she is still under 18) |
| 20:31.41 | Jayce^ | harleypig, I assumed you'd remember.. think somebody pointed them out too you once, and you didn't just peek at the edge, but took a running leap |
| 20:32.05 | harleypig | feh ... they've always been beyond my moral horizon. |
| 20:32.11 | Jayce^ | ~lart paypal's API |
| 20:32.11 | ibot | takes out a cattle prod and gives paypal's API a good jolt |
| 20:32.15 | harleypig | fozzmoo: C? |
| 20:32.18 | fozzmoo | Child |
| 20:32.20 | maquis | Jayce^: he hit his head on the way down |
| 20:32.20 | Jayce^ | Child |
| 20:32.25 | harleypig | eww |
| 20:33.11 | harleypig | maquis: No I didn't! I never even came close to decency ... so how could I jump off? |
| 20:33.42 | fozzmoo | maquis: Ask the guys at Maverick about harleypig. They'll tell you! |
| 20:33.57 | harleypig | I haven't been back since. |
| 20:34.04 | Sargun | Jayce^, have fun with it! |
| 20:34.09 | harleypig | Which probably makes the idiot think he won. |
| 20:34.30 | fozzmoo | harleypig: You should give him a towel the next time you see him. :) |
| 20:34.38 | harleypig | with a head on it |
| 20:34.54 | harleypig | err ... a head painted on it |
| 20:34.58 | fozzmoo | "You know... for your head." |
| 20:35.03 | maquis | harleypig: i'm sure at some point in your life.... |
| 20:35.03 | harleypig | right |
| 20:35.17 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, because you should never forget your towel! |
| 20:35.24 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: That's right. Or your fish. |
| 20:35.27 | harleypig | maquis: It's surprising how many women believe that about me. |
| 20:35.46 | harleypig | I should take advantge of that ... |
| 20:35.55 | maquis | ... |
| 20:36.11 | Jayce^ | harleypig, you *really* don't want to talk online about you taking advantage of something ........ |
| 20:36.14 | harleypig | You're sure at some point in my life someone taught me some decency. |
| 20:36.21 | harleypig | right? |
| 20:36.22 | fozzmoo | Wow. |
| 20:36.35 | fozzmoo | Just reading this story redbeard2 posted earlier. |
| 20:36.36 | harleypig | Jayce^: why not? |
| 20:36.38 | maquis | Jayce^: that didn't help my headache |
| 20:36.40 | harleypig | <_< |
| 20:36.42 | harleypig | >_> |
| 20:36.51 | maquis | fozzmoo: what story? |
| 20:37.12 | fozzmoo | Avg American eats 118 pounds of sugar+HFCS per year. |
| 20:37.18 | fozzmoo | http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/24/FDDS12UH12.DTL&feed=rss.food |
| 20:37.20 | brac | [The facts about corn sweetener] |
| 20:37.45 | fozzmoo | I remember reading something about that statistics from right after WWII. It was something like 25 lbs/year |
| 20:37.54 | maquis | does that include natural sugars? |
| 20:38.11 | Jayce^ | maquis, added sugars |
| 20:38.12 | maquis | fozzmoo: you were alive right after wwii? |
| 20:38.32 | maquis | or you read about it more recently discussing that time? |
| 20:39.46 | maquis | Jayce^: interesting |
| 20:41.53 | tensai | there are 1800 calories in a pound of sugar |
| 20:42.13 | fozzmoo | is that all? |
| 20:42.21 | tensai | if my math is right |
| 20:42.40 | tensai | 25 calories in 6 grams |
| 20:42.47 | tensai | 453 grams per pound |
| 20:42.54 | tensai | 25 * 453 / 6 = 1887 |
| 20:43.19 | Jayce^ | tensai, 25 Calories, not calories :) |
| 20:43.52 | Jayce^ | 1 Calories == 1k calories |
| 20:44.01 | levi | 1lb of sugar is about 2 1/4 cups. |
| 20:44.07 | harleypig | So what's is bucket could eat 6 pounds of sugar a day. |
| 20:44.13 | harleypig | the swimmer |
| 20:44.13 | tensai | Jayce^: to a chemist. not to the average joe. |
| 20:44.23 | Jayce^ | or outside the US :) |
| 20:44.42 | levi | Who, outside the US, would be named Joe? ;) |
| 20:44.56 | harleypig | Stalin? |
| 20:45.04 | maquis | i learned yesterday about the difference between a british gallon and an american gallon |
| 20:45.11 | levi | Surely a man of his stature wouldn't go by 'Joe'. |
| 20:45.21 | harleypig | The british gallon is a bit more snooty? |
| 20:45.33 | elg | mostly he goes by "dust" now |
| 20:45.38 | maquis | it's bigger |
| 20:45.39 | harleypig | levi: I doubt he goes by anything now |
| 20:45.50 | maquis | because, the british pint is 20 oz instead of 16 |
| 20:46.02 | maquis | but there's still 8 pints to the gallon |
| 20:46.08 | tensai | elg: thought he was preserved |
| 20:46.21 | maquis | tensai: correct |
| 20:46.27 | maquis | he goes by pickle now |
| 20:46.28 | elg | so you're saying he goes by pickle now? |
| 20:46.40 | maquis | :P |
| 20:46.43 | harleypig | And you guys were giving me grief abut decency earlier! |
| 20:46.53 | harleypig | :D |
| 20:46.54 | tensai | should have used all this extra sugar and made him into jam |
| 20:47.19 | harleypig | You hear the joke about having a leper at your party right? |
| 20:47.24 | harleypig | You never run out of dip. |
| 20:47.49 | elg | that might be funny if anyone even knew what leprosy was like anymore |
| 20:48.02 | harleypig | I do! |
| 20:48.21 | elg | but you're already funny |
| 20:48.24 | harleypig | Of course, we could get into dead baby jokes. |
| 20:48.37 | harleypig | Yeah, but I don't looks count |
| 20:48.37 | levi | Stalin is still on display in his tomb? |
| 20:48.47 | harleypig | s/t l/t think l/ |
| 20:49.59 | elg | anyone heard of project wonderland? |
| 20:50.24 | RyanE | who would name a project after MJ's homestead? |
| 20:50.28 | harleypig | Isn't that in Michael Jacksons bedroom? |
| 20:50.30 | elg | sun |
| 20:50.35 | elg | heh |
| 20:51.06 | maquis | levi: he was as of a year or so ago, i know |
| 20:51.12 | elg | there's a guy in my ward named michael jackson |
| 20:51.18 | maquis | or was it lenin? |
| 20:51.31 | maquis | one of those two was recently, because my friend saw him |
| 20:51.33 | elg | maquis: lenin snuck into stalin's coffin? |
| 20:51.44 | elg | your friend knew him when he was alive? |
| 20:51.58 | tensai | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin's_Mausoleum |
| 20:52.02 | maquis | is confused |
| 20:52.02 | harleypig | elg: Your hospital ward? |
| 20:52.09 | tensai | Joseph Stalin's embalmed body shared a spot next to Vladimir Lenin, from the time of his death in 1953 until October 31, 1961, when Stalin was removed as part of de-Stalinization and Khrushchev's Thaw, and buried outside the walls of the Kremlin. |
| 20:52.16 | elg | harleypig: prison |
| 20:52.28 | harleypig | elg: you're in prison? |
| 20:52.32 | elg | reiser was going to be sent here, but we rejected him |
| 20:52.36 | harleypig | heh |
| 20:52.49 | harleypig | wait ... how come? |
| 20:53.07 | harleypig | de-Stalinization ... |
| 20:53.45 | harleypig | The prisoner's take a vote? |
| 20:54.53 | elg | no photos or videos allowed. wonder why that is? |
| 20:55.23 | elg | wouldn't be religious sensitivity |
| 20:55.30 | tensai | lenin is a prude |
| 20:55.42 | elg | maybe he's ugly and doesn't want people to remember |
| 20:56.03 | tensai | concern's about flash photography? |
| 20:56.07 | tensai | s/'// |
| 20:57.06 | *** join/#utah Aliosa27 (n=Aliosa27@209.90.88.194) |
| 21:03.12 | elg | you know it's too bad you can't set up some kind of radio signal that disables flashes in cameras |
| 21:03.57 | harleypig | or overloads them so they pop |
| 21:04.44 | *** join/#utah markl___ (n=mark@c-24-10-191-137.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.57 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@97-117-74-42.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:08.07 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@97-117-74-42.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:12.07 | levi | This is interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin |
| 21:12.12 | brac | [How Sweden Solved Its Bank Crisis - NYTimes.com] |
| 21:13.39 | Jayce^ | levi, but that involves responsibility.. our government just can't do that... |
| 21:14.08 | levi | It involves the backbone to stand up to Wall Street. |
| 21:15.37 | Jayce^ | it also requires understanding about there the money comes from, which is lacking |
| 21:16.58 | levi | I don't think Sweden's solution really required that. It's just a very, very unpalatable solution to hardline capitalists. |
| 21:19.03 | levi | I certainly don't think Sweden's solution would be one picked by Libertarians. |
| 21:19.56 | levi | But I make no secret of the fact that I think Libertarianism is just a particularly wacky kind of utopianism. |
| 21:25.35 | unum | utopia is the book that converted me to socialism |
| 21:29.37 | Heartsbane | Well if there isn't oversight on this 700 Billion I think I will just stop contributing to my funds and store the spare $$$ in my mattress |
| 21:30.16 | levi | Yeah, that 'no oversight' clause is pretty heinous. |
| 21:30.55 | Jayce^ | extremely |
| 21:31.24 | Jayce^ | of course, it's the "oversight" group that got us there in the first place, so anything they do to band-aid it will probably just have similar results |
| 21:33.15 | levi | I think any long-term solution needs to include serious government reform as well, a la Lessig's Change Congress movement. |
| 21:35.23 | *** join/#utah bonez48 (n=scott@75.145.57.254) |
| 21:35.30 | bonez48 | hello? |
| 21:35.36 | Jayce^ | thinks a good rollback is in order |
| 21:36.06 | sjansen | unum: Most -isms are too unrealistic to be workable. At least capitalism is based on the recognition that we're self interested. |
| 21:36.54 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@67.137.148.180) |
| 21:37.18 | unum | sjansen: true, but it still works better when it's regulated |
| 21:37.39 | sjansen | I'd love to see politicians competing on the number of laws eliminated instead of created. |
| 21:38.15 | harleypig | sjansen: some -isms work because they are unrealistic. |
| 21:38.38 | sjansen | unum: You mean like the Soviet socialism that collapsed on itself or the European socialism that only works because we create the innovation that makes their life better? |
| 21:39.07 | Jayce^ | unum, you sure, regulation is what has caused most of the problems :) |
| 21:39.10 | levi | Capitalism works very well at what it's supposed to do, which is create wealth. |
| 21:39.32 | unum | Jayce^: I disagree |
| 21:39.43 | levi | Jayce^: Explain? |
| 21:40.05 | unum | sjansen: I mean like the socialism that's practiced in Utopia |
| 21:40.07 | Jayce^ | unum, tell me, why are there so many "predatory practices" in lending nowadays? why has it risen so high in the past 12 years? |
| 21:40.23 | Jayce^ | darn, why do we start a good conversation just as we're doing a rollout here at work.... |
| 21:40.24 | levi | Jayce^: I'm guessing you're going to blame it on the CRA. |
| 21:40.40 | sjansen | unum: Oh, okay, the pretend kind. Of course we're all in favor of that so long as no one actually tries to implement it. |
| 21:40.52 | levi | And I won't absolve the CRA of all responsibility, but I don't think it's anywhere near the primary 'cause' of the mess. |
| 21:41.06 | harleypig | greed is the cause |
| 21:41.11 | harleypig | on both sides. |
| 21:41.20 | harleypig | s/both/all/ |
| 21:41.21 | Jayce^ | levi, back in 96 there was a large bill, among others, forcing that type of lending, banks were to be punished if they didn't lower their standards... it's one of several regulatory problems that introduced this |
| 21:41.29 | levi | Jayce^: Yes, that was the CRA. |
| 21:41.46 | Jayce^ | levi, right, but I figured I'd expand on the acronym for those watching on the sidelines |
| 21:41.57 | levi | So... banks didn't want to make subprime loans. |
| 21:42.09 | unum | I don't believe that |
| 21:42.10 | levi | The government made them make some. |
| 21:42.14 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 21:42.30 | Jayce^ | they were too risky, totally hands off before then |
| 21:42.34 | levi | How does that explain how they suddenly blew up into trillions of dollars of bizarre securities? |
| 21:42.52 | Jayce^ | but it didn't allow for "the american dream", and was too "mean" |
| 21:42.58 | harleypig | levi: greed |
| 21:43.31 | levi | I mean, if they didn't want to make them in the first place, why would they suddenly make a 180 and make ZILLIONS of them? |
| 21:43.48 | levi | The causality doesn't work. There has to be another force in effect. |
| 21:44.01 | levi | harleypig: greed is the primary motivator of capitalism, and thus is a virtue. |
| 21:44.05 | Jayce^ | levi, there were large penalties if a certain percentage of loans were not of that type |
| 21:44.09 | harleypig | levi: They didn't keep the loans ... they sold them off |
| 21:44.12 | harleypig | levi: feh |
| 21:44.26 | Jayce^ | and credit was only available if you would make those loans |
| 21:44.53 | harleypig | levi: That's an oversimplification |
| 21:46.20 | levi | Jayce^: Yes, this suggests that the did not have motivation to make more than that percent of loans. |
| 21:46.36 | levi | And they didn't, for the first several years of the CRA. |
| 21:47.36 | Jayce^ | the first several years of the CRA were in the Carter years, then to Reagan... it was the added legislation and regulation of 96 that caused the larger shift |
| 21:47.42 | levi | Which is why subprime loans were thought to be safe. They weren't originally nearly as predatory as they later became. They had a much lower default rate through the early years of the CRA's influence. |
| 21:47.43 | sjansen | Jayce^: If you're going to be taken seriously, you have to admit that at a certain point financial institutions became addicted to sub-prime profits, they might have been forced to take the first hit, but eventually they were chasing the habit like crack-crazed junkies. |
| 21:48.41 | levi | Anyone who places the blame squarely on CRA has been smoking from a partisan pipe. |
| 21:48.54 | levi | Like I said, it was an influence, but not the primary cause. |
| 21:48.56 | Jayce^ | Fannie and Freddie got an open ticket to purchase at that time, any standard, they were run but good friends of the president at that time.. |
| 21:49.47 | Jayce^ | other banks wanting to make there profit had to turn to the only real buyers, F&F.. and what were they buying, at a premium? subprime and the like |
| 21:50.06 | sjansen | Jayce^: Your just upset that everything blew up during the Republican watch. It doesn't fit your world view of the perfection of Republicanism so you've gotta find any spin you can. |
| 21:50.32 | levi | You're completely neglecting the influence of the Fed. |
| 21:50.33 | sjansen | The way it started doesn't matter nearly as much as the reason it was allowed to reach the extreme it did. |
| 21:51.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen, nah, I saw this coming, why I dumped financial securities last year... I've been harping on this problem for a long time |
| 21:51.43 | Jayce^ | even since bush kept on greenspan to keep refinancing out last recession, which would have worked out better for us if we'd let it run its course more |
| 21:52.18 | Jayce^ | levi me or sjansen? |
| 21:53.08 | Jayce^ | sjansen, I blame most current republicans near as much as the Democrats.. dont' think I shill for the oen side.. Less fingers in the pie is not the same as none :) |
| 21:53.34 | levi | The primary reason that mortgages got so bad was that there was tremendous pressure from investors, who couldn't invest in T-bills because the Fed's rate was too low, and mortgage-backed securities looked like a pretty safe bet. The market simply ran out of decent subprime mortgages, and so they were forced to make even crappier ones. |
| 21:54.01 | levi | All of this drove up housing market prices at an insane rate, making subsequent loans even more likely to fail. |
| 21:54.14 | Jayce^ | regulation again.. forcing selected markets to exist, and at dictated levels |
| 21:54.31 | levi | The problem was when they FAR SURPASSED the dictated levels. |
| 21:54.43 | levi | Everything would have been fine if they'd stopped at the dictated levels. |
| 21:56.23 | levi | There was way too much money floating around, nowhere good to invest it, and some smart people found a way to create a new security that looked to them to be pretty safe. |
| 21:56.59 | Jayce^ | safe to them, because they made money by selling it off, wasn't a risk for a few levels down the pyramid :) |
| 21:57.28 | Jayce^ | here's a great rundown of it :) http://sheldoncomics.com/archive/080921.html |
| 21:57.54 | levi | I've read plenty of great rundowns of it, man. |
| 21:57.56 | Jayce^ | greenspan encouraged this, even though the *last* time it failed too |
| 21:58.05 | Jayce^ | levi, that one stands out :) very short read |
| 21:58.13 | Jayce^ | humor in all thigns |
| 21:58.37 | Jayce^ | but last time this happened, greenspan looked the part of the here, because the insurers were all European.. |
| 21:58.50 | harleypig | http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/a_detailed_analysis_of_the_eco_9054.php |
| 21:58.50 | mrpull-lt | so it was THAT barrel of apples. i'll be damned. |
| 21:58.53 | brac | [A Detailed Analysis of the Economic Meltdown in Cartoon Form - 236.com - The Room] |
| 22:02.38 | levi | Anyway, one of the more recent regulatory problems is that investment banks don't have any oversight on their trading of complex derivatives and such. So they've got a slot in their published balance sheet saying how much they think they're worth, but not what they are or any idea how they came to calculate that worth. |
| 22:03.37 | fozzmoo | Jayce^ is mostly right. |
| 22:03.49 | fozzmoo | I blame both parties. |
| 22:04.16 | fozzmoo | Sure, Bush tried to get more oversight on Freddie and Fannie, but he didn't try hard enough. |
| 22:04.42 | fozzmoo | Clinton was responsible for the new CRA and appointed his cronies at the heads of Freddie and Fannie. |
| 22:04.55 | mrpull-lt | anybody cactch arlo guthrie's "i'm changing my name to freddie" song on farm aid? |
| 22:04.59 | fozzmoo | Obama has two top advisors that are former CEOs of Freddie and Fannie. |
| 22:04.59 | mrpull-lt | fun stuff |
| 22:05.26 | fozzmoo | Obama received more money from Fannie and Freddie in his three years in the senate than anyone else. |
| 22:05.50 | fozzmoo | McCain... has too many cars! |
| 22:05.54 | fozzmoo | (and houses) |
| 22:06.05 | levi | McCain... also has ties to Freddie and Fannie! |
| 22:06.20 | fozzmoo | I'm sure everyone in Washington does, but nothing compares to Obama's ties. |
| 22:06.40 | harleypig | They all have too much crap ... they should put their money where their mouth is and give it to some needy charity. |
| 22:06.46 | levi | fozzmoo: Depends on how you spin it. |
| 22:06.57 | harleypig | fozzmoo: Think he shops at Tie One On? |
| 22:07.13 | Jayce^ | levi, pretty hyped up though, his campaign manager once worked for a company that did some contract work for freddie.. for less than a year while he's there.. pretty stretching it compared to in 3 years become the 3rd highest receiver of funding from them |
| 22:07.42 | Jayce^ | now some *accounting* firms, they've got a lot more in Mccain.. :) |
| 22:07.49 | Jayce^ | just a different business :) |
| 22:07.56 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: I think if you only look at those three years, Obama takes the cake. |
| 22:08.04 | fozzmoo | If you look at 1989-2008, he comes in 2nd. |
| 22:08.33 | Jayce^ | yeah, but over the years, you get weighted against Kerry from the last election |
| 22:08.50 | Jayce^ | our local Bennet is the top republican in their camp |
| 22:09.03 | fozzmoo | "Ahhhh think ahhhh will have some ketchup with thaaaat." |
| 22:09.06 | Jayce^ | still in all his years at half what obama has |
| 22:09.56 | Jayce^ | erk, Damian Conways topic list for a lug presentation coming up: |
| 22:09.56 | Jayce^ | modern archaeological techniques, bidirectional cross- dressing, Ancient Greeks hackers, improbable romances, the real Club Med, why programmers shouldn't frequent casinos, the language of moisture vaporators, C++ mysticism, conversational Latin, state machines on steroids, feeding the dog the old-fashioned way, the shocking truth about anime, programming without variables or subroutines, the Four Voids of the Apocalypse, Microsoft's new advertising cam |
| 22:09.57 | Jayce^ | paign, what the Romans used instead of braces, drunken stonemasons, the ancient probabilistic wisdom of bodkins, how to kill a language with a single byte, and the price of fish. |
| 22:10.15 | levi | As a percentage of overall donations to Obama, the F&F stuff is pretty small stuff. |
| 22:10.46 | fozzmoo | levi: I hope it's not a sign of things to come. |
| 22:10.57 | Jayce^ | they're capped |
| 22:11.12 | levi | Jayce^: Who's 'they'? |
| 22:11.27 | fozzmoo | Baseball players. |
| 22:11.30 | harleypig | levi: They's them! |
| 22:16.30 | levi | The large numbers of donations to Obama from Freddie and Fannie also include donations from individual employees of those companies. |
| 22:17.34 | fozzmoo | which goes to show how stupid they were not seeing the writing on the wall- donating money to a political campaign when they're about to lose their jobs. |
| 22:17.43 | levi | Obama got $6000 from PACs associated with F&F, and $120,349 from individuals. |
| 22:18.16 | levi | Bennet, on the other hand, has $71,499 from PACs and $36,500 from individuals. |
| 22:18.34 | levi | Just to put things into perspective. |
| 22:18.57 | levi | Oh, and McCain had $0 from PACs. |
| 22:19.57 | levi | (this is from opensecrets.org, FWIW) |
| 22:21.06 | levi | And here's congressmen who had money invested in them: http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/congressmen-may-have-lost-17-m.html |
| 22:21.32 | brac | [OpenSecrets | |
| 22:21.32 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:22.09 | levi | All in all, I don't think the whole donations/investments thing tips the blame towards either party. |
| 22:22.24 | Jayce^ | yeah, the list of recipeients http://pfds.opensecrets.org/092408.html |
| 22:22.29 | brac | [OpenSecrets | |
| 22:22.29 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:22.34 | Jayce^ | is toggling from rollout to this and back |
| 22:23.10 | Jayce^ | taht of course doesn't include the "special" loan giving category :) |
| 22:26.57 | Jayce^ | another interesting read about it not being just the US market in turmoil.. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122169481775149987.html |
| 22:27.40 | levi | Anyway, the bottom line is, an average market trader had no visibility into the actual value of the mortgage-backed securities, the risk involved in investing in them, or the actual value of the investment banks that were heavily invested in them or related CDSs. |
| 22:28.22 | levi | The lack of visibility is a damning market failure. Markets can't operate as they should without knowing those kinds of things. |
| 22:29.13 | levi | The investment banks should never have been allowed to leverage so highly on such opaque assets. |
| 22:30.10 | Jayce^ | but what about those banks that saw it for what it was, and continued to operate without it.. it think it was visible enough, it was just a hard choice to operate without opting to plunge into the market |
| 22:30.55 | Jayce^ | A lot of Credit unions, for example, were never part of the big selllers, not their business type, and they don't live (as much, in that realm) on the credit handout of the treasury |
| 22:31.03 | Jayce^ | so they could choose not to opt in |
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| 22:31.14 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 22:31.43 | levi | Participating in the market is entirely different from being leveraged 40:1 on securities with no market value. |
| 22:32.51 | levi | Why would AIG (who did not buy CDOs, but insured them via CDSs) invest so heavily in things it knew were bad? |
| 22:33.55 | Jayce^ | Levi, regulatory pressure. They didn't do it *last* time this happened, when they weren't pushed (and driven) |
| 22:34.27 | levi | Did CDOs and CDSs even exist last time? |
| 22:34.43 | levi | And AIG was not regulated into doing anything at all. They have nothing to do with actual mortgages. |
| 22:34.44 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 22:34.49 | Jayce^ | late 90's |
| 22:35.06 | Jayce^ | right, they were insuring it |
| 22:35.34 | levi | And who forced them to insure it? |
| 22:36.24 | Jayce^ | gotta find the link I had the other day, had part of an interview with greenspan about the whole thing, and what we did afterwards |
| 22:36.52 | levi | Well, of course Greenspan is going to point the blame elsewhere. |
| 22:37.37 | sjansen | Poor Greenspan, his name's pretty much mud at this point. And he exited on such a high note. |
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| 22:39.45 | Jayce^ | bleh, not the one I was looking for, but this one does reference his quote about european insurance companies, and some of his policies with this. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32b85c72-859b-11dd-a1ac-0000779fd18c.html |
| 22:41.56 | Jayce^ | argh... "I thought the dev system just didn't work, so I didn't test it there..." |
| 22:42.08 | levi | The US didn't suffer excessive growth leading to inflation because we outsourced all our growth to China and India. :P |
| 22:43.55 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@166-70-191-252.ip.xmission.com) |
| 22:44.13 | levi | Okay, so that article seems to be supporting everythign I've been saying. |
| 22:44.21 | levi | Well, almost everything. |
| 22:45.23 | levi | Anyway, I'm heading to school. |
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| 23:23.15 | tensai | http://www.businesspundit.com/sub-prime/ |
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| 23:37.46 | Heartsbane | Oh boy the president clown is going to be on TV tonight to talk about his bailout |
| 23:39.13 | Sargun | ahha |
| 23:49.57 | Heartsbane | or our bailout |
| 23:57.15 | nick125 | Heartsbane: "our" |
