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| 00:18.24 | maquis | ~lart Newsome |
| 00:18.24 | ibot | puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, Newsome, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 00:18.31 | Newsome | hey |
| 00:28.12 | vontrapp | maquis: no tagbacks |
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| 03:36.58 | nick125_lappy | Why is it that right when I get around to the computer that the people I wanted to talk to signed off right as I sat down to try getting ahold of them... |
| 03:42.16 | levi_home | The universe hates you. |
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| 03:43.07 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: I know |
| 03:51.47 | nick125_lappy | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 3 21:50 /usr/bin/crashaholic -> /usr/bin/firefox |
| 03:53.49 | nick125_lappy | I'm wondering, maybe I should bind "killall firefox-bin" to a key, like f3 or something |
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| 04:12.26 | justingiboney | I have a website hosted on my macosx that I just recently got running, but it seems to be working off and on... www.forodeherbales.com |
| 04:16.11 | Sargun | hola! |
| 04:16.31 | justingiboney | hola |
| 04:22.50 | macnewbold | hm... herbals forum? sounds like someone's been reading to much C1AL!S spam |
| 04:23.21 | justingiboney | no this is for real stuff |
| 04:24.41 | justingiboney | i am wonder if this is a problem with my dns or my server, which is set up as a virtual host |
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| 04:26.20 | levi_home | I thought Cialis was real stuff. Silly me. |
| 04:30.54 | justingiboney | if you can't see the site here is the ip 71.32.238.224 |
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| 06:03.40 | tensai | redbeard1: curse you for linking me to amano. now it's late and I need some chocolate. |
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| 13:22.06 | redbeard1 | ~lart tensai |
| 13:22.06 | ibot | calls tensai on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home |
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| 13:34.23 | goozbach | ~seen fozzmoo |
| 13:34.57 | ibot | fozzmoo <n=fozz@65.89.234.66> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1d 16h 44m 3s ago, saying: 'As long as they're not Bank Of America, I'm all in favor of them.'. |
| 13:41.33 | sjansen | ~moo |
| 13:41.42 | ibot | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ and http://www.riddleme.com/html/cow2.html |
| 13:42.02 | sjansen | ~language ibot |
| 13:42.04 | ibot | ACTION grabs ibot by the ear and washes ibot's mouth out with soap |
| 13:52.04 | ^Migs^ | there are four things that are always cool, always will be cool, and always have been cool: (1) pirates, (2) ninjas, (3) giant robots, and (4) cows |
| 13:54.10 | redbeard1 | i will agree with the rest of the list, however |
| 13:55.16 | ^Migs^ | what is not cool about giant robots? |
| 13:55.49 | jsmith | I would put "big trucks" on there before "giant robots" |
| 13:56.08 | redbeard1 | the real question is, what is cool about giant robots? it's a much shorter answer. |
| 13:56.34 | ^Migs^ | yeah, big trucks too. The list was in no particular order. |
| 13:56.45 | ^Migs^ | I have nothing against putting giant robots at the bottom of the list, but they ARE on the list. |
| 13:57.00 | ^Migs^ | They're cool because they're giant, and they're robots. 'nuff said. |
| 14:15.02 | dataw0lf | how are cows cool? |
| 14:15.20 | dataw0lf | I'd think, like, cowboys, sure |
| 14:15.24 | elg | they cool off when they die |
| 14:15.33 | dataw0lf | not when I cook em |
| 14:15.41 | jsmith | dataw0lf: They're really cool on a grill... |
| 14:16.07 | dataw0lf | probably should be 'beef' then |
| 14:16.12 | dataw0lf | I mean, it IS what's for dinner |
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| 14:18.24 | ^Migs^ | cows are cool because they have multiuses. You can breed them, milk them, butcher them, tan them, eat them, wear them, and they just sit there and let you do it. |
| 14:18.25 | goozbach | I need to rebuild my laptop. |
| 14:18.40 | goozbach | should I use Fedora Core 6, or wait a month until FC7 comes out? |
| 14:18.51 | emcnabb | ^Migs^: I like to tip them |
| 14:19.03 | goozbach | I don't want to use debian, suse, ubuntu |
| 14:19.15 | ^Migs^ | yeah, you can tip them |
| 14:19.17 | goozbach | and CaOS isn't quite working |
| 14:19.27 | ^Migs^ | and probably a dozen other uses I can't think of right now |
| 14:19.55 | ^Migs^ | the point is you'd be crazy not to think cows are tremendously cool |
| 14:19.57 | goozbach | ^Migs^: use their methane for power generation |
| 14:20.01 | dataw0lf | I don't think they're cool |
| 14:20.02 | dataw0lf | Sorry |
| 14:20.08 | dataw0lf | I think they're extremely useful for my own ends |
| 14:20.10 | ^Migs^ | once again, your opinion is wrong |
| 14:20.16 | dataw0lf | so are girls |
| 14:20.24 | dataw0lf | this doth not mean I think that they are cool |
| 14:20.25 | ^Migs^ | yeah, but girls aren't coool |
| 14:21.03 | ^Migs^ | Cows aren't cool because they're useful to YOU, they're cool because THEY have multiple functions |
| 14:21.10 | ^Migs^ | there's a slight but important difference there |
| 14:21.15 | jsmith | goozbach: Wait for FC7 |
| 14:21.28 | dataw0lf | girls have multiple functions too |
| 14:22.08 | goozbach | yeah, let's find something else to talk about |
| 14:22.13 | ^Migs^ | dataw0lf is a misobovinist. |
| 14:24.45 | dataw0lf | jsmith: I need some breakfast |
| 14:24.48 | dataw0lf | >_> |
| 14:24.49 | dataw0lf | <_< |
| 14:25.51 | jsmith | ~feed dataw0lf |
| 14:25.53 | ibot | ACTION offers dataw0lf some toe-jam |
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| 14:40.58 | elg | spaceport yes's lead by 204, 540 provisional ballots to be counted thursday |
| 14:41.38 | elg | http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/04/04/spaceport.tax.ap/ |
| 14:41.38 | brac | [New Mexico residents split over taxes for spaceport - CNN.com] |
| 14:42.14 | ^Migs^ | http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19970109/ai_n9648385 |
| 14:42.16 | brac | [Pregnancy makes your brain shrink Independent, The (London) - Find Articles] |
| 14:42.46 | elg | so the provisional count would have to swing away from the roughly 50/50 split we've seen so far to take the win |
| 14:42.51 | elg | for the no's |
| 14:43.49 | elg | otoh, provisional ballots are cast mostly by intellectually challenged individuals: who go to the wrong polling place, don't register properly, forget they changed their names, things like that |
| 14:43.53 | elg | so it's anybody's guess |
| 14:48.03 | tensai | elg: how many votes total? |
| 14:49.41 | elg | 8781 to 8577 |
| 14:51.44 | elg | http://www.lcsun-news.com/news/ci_5588220 is a better article |
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| 15:02.05 | tensai | so a fifo is either read-only or write-only, but not read/write? |
| 15:02.52 | elg | yes |
| 15:03.00 | elg | if you want bidirectional you need two fifos |
| 15:03.24 | tensai | that's what I was afraid of |
| 15:03.55 | lukfugl | tensai: what language? |
| 15:04.15 | lukfugl | you can probably encapsulate the two fifos into one thing that looks like a read/write fifo |
| 15:04.32 | lukfugl | and it determines which internal fifo to use based on operation |
| 15:04.33 | elg | well a fifo usually refers to the in-filesystem variety |
| 15:04.42 | elg | pipe being the more portable variety :) |
| 15:05.03 | tensai | why couldn't we make the fifos full duplex? |
| 15:05.13 | tensai | "we" meaning somebody else, of course. not me. |
| 15:05.23 | elg | that's just the way they work |
| 15:05.31 | lukfugl | yeah, but he's gotta be using the fifo's in *some* language, even if it's just bash (in which case my comment, to my knowledge, does not apply) |
| 15:05.51 | tensai | lukfugl: C, bash and php |
| 15:05.54 | elg | but almost every language would just treat a fifo as a file |
| 15:06.05 | elg | you'd need some kind of manager thingy |
| 15:06.16 | elg | which you could certainly write, and might be able to find as a lib |
| 15:06.23 | elg | but I've never seen such a beast, even in ruby |
| 15:07.10 | lukfugl | elg: that's what I mean, a C struct that holds two FILE* + functions, or a PHP object that abstracts the direct access to the fifo's |
| 15:07.18 | tensai | this is openser in particular. looks like it opens a new fifo to write back to the connecting client. |
| 15:08.05 | tensai | how do I get the process id in PHP? |
| 15:08.09 | tensai | $$? |
| 15:08.41 | lukfugl | I've never found PHP too susceptible to bribes, much as I would have liked |
| 15:13.52 | tensai | getmypid() ?!? |
| 15:14.06 | tensai | what kind of stupid syntax is that? |
| 15:14.19 | Supaplex | php stupid |
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| 15:14.34 | tensai | yeah, I'm not surprised |
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| 15:16.04 | Supaplex | fungus: poke my eyes out! this morning stuff comes too ealry :p |
| 15:16.22 | Supaplex | s/lr/rl/ |
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| 15:25.34 | findlay | geteveryonespid() |
| 15:25.42 | findlay | getnobodyspid() |
| 15:26.10 | ^Migs^ | getfindlayspid() |
| 15:27.01 | lukfugl | kill(getfindlayspid(), TERM) |
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| 15:51.37 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 15:55.26 | harleypig | Quote of the week: "We don't pay our police officers enough, so we get what we pay for." |
| 15:55.28 | findlay | ~taste ibot |
| 16:06.01 | graphyx | ~say /me pukes |
| 16:06.04 | ibot | /me pukes |
| 16:06.19 | redbeard1 | ~puke graphyx |
| 16:06.30 | redbeard1 | it was worth a shot |
| 16:08.53 | jsmith | ~action pukes |
| 16:08.54 | ibot | ACTION pukes |
| 16:10.07 | graphyx | jsmith: ~say /me and ~action have the same amount of characters so there is no dfference. |
| 16:10.17 | graphyx | nvm |
| 16:10.21 | graphyx | I miscounted |
| 16:10.27 | graphyx | ~action is shorter |
| 16:10.28 | ibot | ACTION is shorter |
| 16:10.41 | graphyx | ibot: than what? |
| 16:11.23 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:16.06 | findlay | ~eat cats |
| 16:16.08 | ibot | ACTION eats cats and falls over dead |
| 16:17.03 | redbeard1 | ~onjoin redbeard2 I am the king of the echo people. |
| 16:17.03 | ibot | redbeard1: ok |
| 16:17.59 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=chelle@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 16:18.48 | sjansen | tensai: Can you use a unix socket instead? |
| 16:19.40 | tensai | ah, yes. sockets can be full duplex. |
| 16:19.41 | tensai | sjansen: I could except I'm interfacing with an existing application |
| 16:24.06 | findlay | maybe you need a triplex socket |
| 16:24.10 | findlay | or a quadplex |
| 16:27.03 | Supaplex | make it a Supaplex ;) |
| 16:27.36 | findlay | is Supaplex better than a fipleplex? |
| 16:27.47 | Supaplex | fungus: are you alive over there? dude, clean up the puddle of drool. :) |
| 16:28.10 | Supaplex | most days. |
| 16:41.13 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 16:41.26 | ibot | takes out a cattle prod and gives fungus a good jolt |
| 16:42.34 | sjansen | ~rfart |
| 16:43.57 | Supaplex | :) |
| 16:53.50 | sjansen | ~rfart |
| 16:53.53 | ibot | ACTION farts in the general direction of jnbek |
| 17:03.45 | lukfugl | ~lart ACM (again) |
| 17:03.45 | ibot | gives ACM (again) a good seeing to |
| 17:04.05 | lukfugl | ibot: lame |
| 17:04.07 | ibot | hmm... lame is an LGPL MP3 encoder, #mp3encoder http://lame.sourceforge.net/ see http://www.apt-get.org/ apt-get sites |
| 17:04.07 | lukfugl | ~lart ACM |
| 17:04.08 | ibot | changes ACM's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 17:04.24 | vontrapp | academic computer minstrels? |
| 17:05.22 | lukfugl | Association for Computing Machinery |
| 17:05.54 | vontrapp | what are they doing to you? |
| 17:06.20 | lukfugl | want to charge $10 for an academic article that was published in 1970 |
| 17:06.51 | emcnabb | hum, I've never used the "rev" command before |
| 17:07.09 | lukfugl | despite the fact that they themselves have republished the text of the article on the web |
| 17:07.10 | vontrapp | even then i just ate their pizza and won useless microsoft products |
| 17:07.21 | lukfugl | (and it's 37 freakin' years old) |
| 17:07.32 | vontrapp | emcnabb: deas it make cool engine noises? |
| 17:08.31 | lukfugl | I mean, despite the age, it's still an important article, hence my desire to read it. but how are we supposed to build on the shoulders of those who went before if it's still hidden behind pay-to-read 30+ years after publication? |
| 17:08.52 | lukfugl | I guess it would be in the library for free, but still, c'mon |
| 17:10.58 | lukfugl | emcnabb: why would anyone *want* to use the rev command? |
| 17:11.53 | macnewbold | rev is handy for oneliners sometimes |
| 17:12.10 | macnewbold | I used it once to sort a list of hostnames so that they were grouped by their top level domain |
| 17:12.24 | emcnabb | lukfugl: ?siht ekil parc gnirehpiced rof |
| 17:12.27 | macnewbold | usually you use it twice though, performing some operation on it while reversed |
| 17:12.44 | macnewbold | or emcnabb's suggestion is good too |
| 17:12.45 | lukfugl | emcnabb: rev + rot13 ftw |
| 17:12.49 | macnewbold | yep |
| 17:16.48 | lukfugl | the problem is I can only find 3 copies of this seminal paper online -- 1) $10 PDF from ACM, 2) free text from ACM but serialized across several pages and without the figures inline, 3) a PDF of a really crappy scan some college professor made for his class |
| 17:17.46 | macnewbold | did you try citeseer already? |
| 17:23.07 | lukfugl | Document Not in Database |
| 17:31.41 | ^Migs^ | http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18143899&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=569342&rfi=6 |
| 17:31.44 | brac | [GayCityNews - Army Recruiter Becomes Unglued] |
| 17:32.18 | elg | what paper? |
| 17:32.19 | harleypig | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8JVz5eDl4 |
| 17:32.37 | lukfugl | elg: codd's paper on the relational model of data |
| 17:35.33 | elg | the scanned one isn't so bad. i'm sure it's readable if you print it |
| 17:36.13 | elg | frankly, the acm one is probably scanned too |
| 17:37.51 | lukfugl | elg: are you referring to the same scanned one I am? http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/class/fa06/cs511/papers/codd.pdf -- it's chock full of all sorts of artifacts. but you're probably right about the ACMs version being a scan as well |
| 17:38.15 | elg | i was referring to the half dozen scanned versions that look the same from http://scholar.google.com/scholar?num=50&hl=en&lr=&cluster=11288196461778692465 |
| 17:38.17 | brac | [- Google Scholar] |
| 17:38.37 | harleypig | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdlyLcLF8M&mode=related&search= |
| 17:38.59 | lukfugl | I think I'll just head over to the BYU library this weekend and make my own copy. |
| 17:39.04 | elg | most definitely better quality than the one you linked to |
| 17:39.23 | elg | i think you'll be surprised how less-ugly it is when you print it |
| 17:39.48 | harleypig | lukfugl: :] These aren't *that* bad. |
| 17:39.56 | harleypig | Just a guy dancing. |
| 17:40.19 | lukfugl | gah |
| 17:40.33 | elg | levi might be able to pull it. I think he has an ACM subscription |
| 17:40.40 | elg | if you start brownnosing now |
| 17:40.43 | Lone_Wanderer | What's ACM? |
| 17:41.22 | elg | Association for Computing Machinery, aka one of the important organizations in CS, aka usually the stupidest organization you can associate with on campus |
| 17:41.32 | elg | (based on my sample space of two universities) |
| 17:41.37 | Lone_Wanderer | gotcha |
| 17:42.11 | lukfugl | elg: what're the other important organizations in CS, IYE? |
| 17:42.28 | elg | ACM is cool. student chapters tend to be thinly-veiled microsoft brainwashing machines run by CS students who should be MBA students instead (and often are going to do an MBA after graduating) |
| 17:42.30 | elg | IEEE |
| 17:42.44 | lukfugl | ah, yes, IEEE. wasn't thinking :) |
| 17:42.48 | elg | those are the two general-purpose organizations in CS |
| 17:43.02 | elg | then of course there's organizations in your subfield |
| 17:43.06 | elg | most likely |
| 17:44.01 | lukfugl | I agree with you're assessment of ACM in general, but I just had to lart them for this. I'm going to break down and subscribe to cACM and maybe Queue as well one of these days |
| 17:44.32 | elg | i wouldn't bother with queue, personally. |
| 17:44.36 | elg | it makes ok toilet reading |
| 17:44.49 | elg | but it's free, so hey |
| 18:00.19 | tensai | grr, nat! |
| 18:02.08 | lukfugl | tensai: are you a purple smurf? |
| 18:02.17 | tensai | Lone_Wanderer: there's also Usenix |
| 18:02.32 | tensai | lukfugl: nope, I guess I'm not |
| 18:03.29 | lukfugl | maybe it was on the show ... can't remember if it was there or in one of the smurf children's books we had growing up |
| 18:04.20 | lukfugl | looks like it was the show |
| 18:06.20 | lukfugl | http://www.listology.com/content_print.cfm/l_content_ids.11780 #1 |
| 18:16.28 | ^Migs^ | what an unfortunate name: http://www.coldwellbankerpbr.com/agents.aspx?agentid=AD58-000899 |
| 18:16.34 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 18:21.44 | lukfugl | heh |
| 18:27.41 | ^Migs^ | man, I remember that Sunfizz/Sprite commercial |
| 18:44.31 | rsimpkins | Did anyone watch that documentry someone stuck on youtube - "The most hated family in america" or something like that? |
| 18:53.15 | graphyx | Is that a stab against ^Migs^? |
| 18:54.12 | rsimpkins | I thought it was a really interesting documentry. |
| 18:54.14 | graphyx | We have woman in our ward that is named gay flowers. |
| 18:54.35 | rsimpkins | It is about this fringe religious group that uses hate as a tool for conversion. |
| 18:54.53 | rsimpkins | Of course, all in the name of 'helping' people. |
| 18:55.06 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 18:55.10 | graphyx | Sounds like the KKK |
| 18:55.13 | graphyx | or something |
| 18:55.13 | rsimpkins | They go around with obcene signs and protest stuff. |
| 18:55.47 | rsimpkins | I think it is a facinating look in to the typical cult mind set. |
| 18:56.19 | graphyx | We've had anti-abortion groups that were a family out there with huge really gross pictures. |
| 18:56.53 | graphyx | Have to distract our kids so that they don't get a chance to see the really nasty pictures. |
| 18:57.35 | Tene | graphyx: abortion is a gross, nasty process sometimes, especially with later-term abortions. |
| 18:57.39 | rsimpkins | graphyx: Sad commentary on our times. |
| 18:57.42 | Tene | What do you expect it to look like, flowers and butterflies? |
| 18:58.11 | rsimpkins | Tene: I think they should protest tastefully, no need to create big huge posters of the process and put them on public display - is there? |
| 18:58.17 | graphyx | umm... while bieng against abortion, I don't want my kids having nightmares about the pictures of it |
| 18:58.45 | rsimpkins | Same thing with this documentry family. Some of the posters are pretty obscene. |
| 18:58.53 | rsimpkins | All in order to 'help' people. |
| 18:58.57 | rsimpkins | Gotta love it. |
| 19:05.36 | tensai | Tene: you sayin' you don't like flowers and butterflies? them's fightin' words. |
| 19:05.54 | Tene | tensai: I love flowers and butterflies. |
| 19:06.22 | Tene | I would be terrified, however, if they were produced by or otherwise involved in the typical abortion. |
| 19:10.36 | dataw0lf | I could post some pictures of crack babies if you like looking at aborted fetuses so much |
| 19:10.39 | dataw0lf | tit for tat, y'know |
| 19:11.41 | rsimpkins | dataw0lf: Huh? |
| 19:11.57 | dataw0lf | I'm speaking to Tene. |
| 19:12.40 | Tene | I don't particularly like aborted fetuses, I'm just generally annoyed by the idea of "Pretend that problems don't exist and object to people who bring them up" |
| 19:12.43 | dataw0lf | since I'm against our presence in Iraqi, would be it suitable for me to have a banner with a dead soldier on it? |
| 19:12.52 | dataw0lf | it's fine to protest. |
| 19:13.08 | dataw0lf | but if you're using disgusting methods to do so, you're in the wrong despite whatever your position might be. |
| 19:13.30 | Tene | I don't understand why that would be wrong, actually. |
| 19:13.36 | rsimpkins | dataw0lf: Did you watch the documentry on youtube? The most hated family in america, or something like that? |
| 19:13.48 | dataw0lf | rsimpkins: Negative. |
| 19:13.51 | Tene | I'm not saying that it's not, I just don't see why it would be. |
| 19:14.03 | dataw0lf | Tene: Interesting. |
| 19:14.22 | dataw0lf | yet you agree that, say, TV should be censored to a degree? |
| 19:15.04 | dataw0lf | why should public displays, especially in highly populated areas, where abortion clinics are (usually) found. Where a kid can see crap like that. |
| 19:15.11 | rsimpkins | Tene: So you think it is okay to display disturbing and/or obcene images in public to make a point - because by not doing so that is being repressive? |
| 19:15.19 | Tene | Perhaps I might have problems with the portrayal being deceptive to some degree... |
| 19:15.58 | Tene | dataw0lf: no, I can't think of any convincing reasons to censor TV. |
| 19:16.17 | Tene | rsimpkins: not for that reason, but yes, I think it's okay. |
| 19:16.31 | dataw0lf | Tene: do you have kids? |
| 19:16.55 | Tene | dataw0lf: no, I have no children. |
| 19:17.12 | dataw0lf | if you did, would you allow them to watch violent tv? porn? |
| 19:17.26 | rsimpkins | Tene: It seems to me you are saying the good that comes from obscene pictures outways the burden the public has to endure. |
| 19:18.16 | Tene | rsimpkins: I don't really understand what the burden you're suggesting exists is. I'm not saying that no burden exists, just that I don't see one. |
| 19:18.24 | rsimpkins | Tene: I think wanting to see a picture of an abortion, and not being allowed to, is repressive. I think making a huge poster of it and walking down mainstreet is just stupid. |
| 19:18.38 | dataw0lf | I think it's justifiable to post pictures of aborted fetuses for your own purposes (as sick as it may be) in private displays. But in public it has no place. |
| 19:18.51 | dataw0lf | just like me running naked down the street has no place. |
| 19:19.07 | Tene | rsimpkins: I think it might make *you* look stupid to be doing so. |
| 19:19.33 | dataw0lf | and it might introduce young children to those images that their parents DON'T want them to see. |
| 19:19.49 | Tene | dataw0lf: I'm not certain that I understand the issues related to raising a child well enough to make an informed response to that question. |
| 19:20.21 | dataw0lf | you would agree that violent and explicit sexual images can be hurtful, or regarded as hurtful by the parents of said child, however? |
| 19:20.21 | rsimpkins | Tene: Just so you know, I agree that a message shouldn't be repressed because we want to pretend that it doesn't exist. |
| 19:20.26 | sjansen | http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/102713/10-Things-Your-Restaurant-Will-Not-Tell-You |
| 19:21.29 | rsimpkins | Tene: I just don't understand the point of view that limiting public displays of obscene images is repressive in any way. Or hides the problem, or is pretending it doesn't exist. |
| 19:21.30 | Tene | My personal feeling on the subject, currently, is that I'd prefer to try to explain the issues behind the subject to my child to whatever degree I could, but that seems a bit too cliche and simple to be very valid. |
| 19:22.36 | rsimpkins | Tene: You are 100% right. |
| 19:22.41 | dataw0lf | Well, personally, I would too. But I think I should decide when to introduce them to troubling images, or issues, rather than some idiot sitting outside an abortion clinic, or whatever organization an offensive protestor may be in front of. |
| 19:23.01 | rsimpkins | Tene: It is best as a parent, in my opinion, to control that encounter - than to be confronted with it while driving down the street. |
| 19:23.18 | dataw0lf | rsimpkins: exactly. |
| 19:23.45 | rsimpkins | And I still would argue that it is not repressive. |
| 19:23.59 | dataw0lf | No, it isn't. It's an example of simple social responsibility. |
| 19:24.10 | rsimpkins | I'm not saying 'don't protest' I'm just saying, protest, but do it without using obscene language or imagry. |
| 19:24.20 | dataw0lf | public protests, anyway. |
| 19:25.25 | rsimpkins | Why can't protestors just create big signs that say "I think you are wrong, and I am right, na na na na na!"? |
| 19:25.49 | dataw0lf | because that doesn't make a connection between an obviously emotional image and some sort of superior stance. |
| 19:26.02 | dataw0lf | which is the very basis for most effective protesting. |
| 19:26.12 | dataw0lf | and, in fact, deceptive. |
| 19:28.10 | rsimpkins | What this documentry showed was how the kids are involved, and get hurt, using obscene posters to protest stuff. |
| 19:28.18 | tensai | I used to look at the effect of tv and video games a lot differently before my kid started watching tv |
| 19:28.20 | rsimpkins | The kids of the protestors, that is. |
| 19:28.54 | Tene | dataw0lf: so why is it okay to protest and talk about disturbing ideas like war and abortion, but not to use images? |
| 19:28.54 | tensai | we had to stop watching the simpsons because I could see a negative effect on him. he just wasn't ready (3 years old). |
| 19:28.58 | brac | we had a big fat F |
| 19:29.25 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:29.33 | Tene | Why is the text "Infants are murdered here." acceptable, but not an image? |
| 19:29.36 | dataw0lf | Tene: I'm not saying it's not ok to use images. I'm saying offensive material, whether it's chants, images, whatever, shouldn't be used in public. |
| 19:30.01 | dataw0lf | I never said "infants are murdered" was acceptable. |
| 19:30.11 | Tene | Okay. I misunderstood your position. |
| 19:30.14 | dataw0lf | it's yet another way to prey on emotions. |
| 19:31.17 | rsimpkins | Is a sign that says "Abortion is Wrong" less effective than "Infants are Murdered" ? |
| 19:31.25 | dataw0lf | Obviously. |
| 19:31.41 | dataw0lf | See, the whole point of protesting is to incite a (usually wrong) emotional assumption |
| 19:31.42 | Jayce^ | it's less of an emotional trigger.. |
| 19:31.53 | ^Migs^ | I swear, Brit tech support isn't any better than Indian tech support. I can almost understand Sanjay better than Nigel. |
| 19:32.05 | dataw0lf | when people hang out at abortion clinics with pictures of late term fetuses, it isn't representative of the vast majority of abortions |
| 19:32.09 | dataw0lf | that look like a blood clot |
| 19:32.26 | dataw0lf | just like if I sat outside the white house with a picture of an american soldier raping an iraqi woman |
| 19:32.32 | dataw0lf | it may have happened |
| 19:32.35 | dataw0lf | but it isn't representative |
| 19:32.40 | dataw0lf | it's used to incite an emotional responce |
| 19:32.43 | dataw0lf | response* |
| 19:32.43 | macnewbold | the first makes a claim about immorality, the second claims an action that one is intended to connect with immorality |
| 19:32.55 | macnewbold | the second one says _why_ it is wrong, not just that it is wrong |
| 19:33.43 | Tene | I do object to the deception and manipulation involved with such things, but I'm not certain that prohibiting such expression entirely is the best way to deal with it. |
| 19:33.52 | rsimpkins | macnewbold: Can the same be said for the origional idea of a big image of the abortion process? |
| 19:34.11 | macnewbold | that's trying to evoke something different |
| 19:34.12 | macnewbold | vomit |
| 19:34.30 | rsimpkins | Does the image of a dead baby on the road side say why it is wrong? |
| 19:34.54 | macnewbold | I think it does, but that doesn't mean it is good or generally acceptable |
| 19:35.16 | Tene | I feel that it's my responsibility to deal with and respond to what I encounter in the world, not someone else's responsibility to protect me from it. |
| 19:35.17 | rsimpkins | macnewbold: That is what we are discussing - how/where do you draw the line? |
| 19:35.25 | rsimpkins | Is it better to just say 'anything goes'? |
| 19:36.01 | Tene | I know people that are horribly offended by roadside signs that say "You are a sinner. Repent and worship God." and such. |
| 19:36.20 | Tene | For a possible contrasting example. |
| 19:36.25 | rsimpkins | Offensive is probably different that obscene. Isn't it? |
| 19:36.28 | dataw0lf | Tene: Yea, I would be. |
| 19:36.48 | Tene | So should that be prohibited as well? |
| 19:36.57 | dataw0lf | I think so. |
| 19:37.02 | dataw0lf | Calling me a sinner kinda pisses me off. |
| 19:37.05 | Tene | What about food advertisement? |
| 19:37.17 | Tene | I know people that find depictiosn of meat to be very obscene. |
| 19:37.20 | dataw0lf | food advertisement doesn't incite the same emotional response as basically calling me evil. |
| 19:37.21 | Tene | *depictions |
| 19:37.22 | macnewbold | if you want to actually get through to them, you don't want them to stop listening immediately |
| 19:37.27 | rsimpkins | Is it offensive or obscene? I can deal with offensive. Offensive is fine. Obscene is beyond offensive. |
| 19:37.46 | dataw0lf | you don't think the picture of an aborted fetus is obscene? |
| 19:37.46 | macnewbold | obscene is extremely offensive |
| 19:38.00 | dataw0lf | I've seen a lot of things |
| 19:38.10 | dataw0lf | but man, I still think that the picture of an aborted fetus is obscene |
| 19:38.14 | Tene | I know people that have similar emotional responses to depictions of slaughtered animals as to slaughtered humans. |
| 19:38.36 | dataw0lf | I don't want my kid seeing depictions of slaughtered animals either. |
| 19:38.53 | Tene | dataw0lf: what about every McDonalds or Arbys commercial or billboard? |
| 19:38.54 | dataw0lf | it's violent. And misrepresentative. Just like the pictures of aborted fetuses. |
| 19:39.09 | rsimpkins | I think obscene images are really at issue here, not simply offensive language or images, but those that are highly offensive/obscene. And I think we all would draw the line differently. |
| 19:39.11 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-137-686.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:39.12 | dataw0lf | there's a difference between the slaughtered image of a cow and a burger. |
| 19:39.24 | dataw0lf | And that's defined by our culture and society. Not me. |
| 19:39.43 | dataw0lf | there will always be malcontents that think a tree stump is 'obscene' |
| 19:39.44 | rsimpkins | Las Vegas has a different opinion of obscene than provo, for example. |
| 19:39.48 | dataw0lf | but it is not representative of our society. |
| 19:39.56 | macnewbold | I don't have problems usually with _what_ people want to express, it's _how_ they choose to express it that I find inappropriate |
| 19:40.03 | dataw0lf | rsimpkins: which is a good argument for federalism, amongst other things. |
| 19:40.50 | rsimpkins | I grew up in Vegas, on a field trip we went to a casino. |
| 19:40.58 | rsimpkins | 4th grade. |
| 19:41.18 | rsimpkins | It was 'just the way it was' - but take a bus load of kids from provo to a casino to see what happens. ;) |
| 19:41.30 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:44.00 | sjansen | Tene: You can't explain hard core porn to a 5 year old. You can't explain dead, mutilated babies to a 5 year old. But that doesn't mean they don't notice it, that they'll some how forget until their old enough to process the information like an adult. |
| 19:44.22 | sjansen | It's called trauma and there's no reason any human being should have a right to traumatize another human being. |
| 19:45.10 | sjansen | Some things are so emotionally charged you can just "reason" them away. You can't just ignore or forget. |
| 19:45.32 | sjansen | harleypig running through Provo in a thong is and should be illegal. |
| 19:45.51 | sjansen | Pictures of dead, mutilated babies paraded through downtown should be illegal too. |
| 19:46.10 | graphyx | my example was driving through one of the biggest intersections in the town no where near any medical clinic (abortive or othervise) |
| 19:46.16 | lukfugl | emcnabb: shutters? you taking a picture of harleypig's marathon? |
| 19:46.33 | Tene | Something about that seems wrong to me, but I'm not sure what it is. |
| 19:46.37 | graphyx | the pictures were obviously chosen and probably enhanced to show the gore of the procedure. |
| 19:46.38 | sjansen | Want to protest? Show a picture of a new born and ask: "Why is it right to kill a child?" |
| 19:47.01 | emcnabb | lukfugl: I mean "shudders" :-) |
| 19:47.07 | lukfugl | I figured :) |
| 19:47.17 | sjansen | Let people think. Making someone nauseous doesn't change minds. Respectfully listening and respectfully speaking does. |
| 19:48.17 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Although I disagree that intelligently and tastefully presenting an argument works better on the masses than an emotionally charged argument/image, I agree on the premise that it _should_ work. |
| 19:48.18 | sjansen | Oh, and calling dataw0lf evil. That changes minds too. ;-) |
| 19:48.36 | dataw0lf | I think everyone's minds are made up on that one |
| 19:48.41 | graphyx | sjansen: unfortunately reasonable speech and action doesn't get much media coverage. |
| 19:49.14 | graphyx | And the protesters like fame just like hollywood |
| 19:49.17 | emcnabb | how about doing an abortion right there |
| 19:49.22 | emcnabb | that would get people's attention |
| 19:49.23 | graphyx | It is like food for them. |
| 19:49.23 | sjansen | Are minds really changed by emotionally charged arguments? Or do they just find sympathetic minds to echo around in? |
| 19:49.43 | graphyx | sjansen: I completely agree with you on that. |
| 19:49.56 | rsimpkins | The news is awesome. I worked for an ENG crew on some flooding in Zion. We showed it like it was. The studio was REALLY mad because we didn't exagurate the images and make it seem like southern utah was 10 feet under water. |
| 19:50.08 | dataw0lf | sjansen: well, religion is a good example of 'emotionally charged argument', and it changes a lot of minds with it's manner of recruitment. |
| 19:50.14 | Tene | rsimpkins: "ENG"? |
| 19:50.24 | graphyx | But if they can get more media coverage than the other side perhaps undecided (empty?) minds would choose the only path. |
| 19:50.32 | rsimpkins | Tene: extra news group - it is what they call a mobile film crew in the news biz. |
| 19:50.38 | Tene | kk |
| 19:50.43 | dataw0lf | Whether or not a missionary from the Catholic church presents something calmly, there is still an emotional knee jerk that usually provides with recruits. |
| 19:51.21 | graphyx | dataw0lf: you just did a s/mormon/Catholic/ in there didn't you? |
| 19:51.43 | dataw0lf | graphyx: I AM only a couple hundred miles away |
| 19:51.54 | graphyx | from who? not I |
| 19:51.56 | rsimpkins | Tene: Or, it used to mean that. Electronic news gathering i guess is the now current 'correct' way to refer to it. |
| 19:52.08 | Tene | sjansen: so what's the difference between someone knocking on your door and asking you "Would you like to hear about God?" and "Would you like to hear about Infanticide?" |
| 19:52.17 | dataw0lf | graphyx: well, I didn't want anyone to think it was an attack on any particular religion. |
| 19:52.21 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I think we have a different understanding of "emotionally charged". |
| 19:52.30 | dataw0lf | sjansen: it's the same premise |
| 19:52.42 | graphyx | dataw0lf: I know and I do appreciate your reserve. |
| 19:52.51 | dataw0lf | you're encouraging and tempting a person's baser instincts |
| 19:52.56 | dataw0lf | i.e. |
| 19:52.59 | dataw0lf | fear of death |
| 19:53.00 | sjansen | Tene: Not much. What's the difference between someone knocking on your door and showing you a picture of Buddha compared to a picture of an aborted child? |
| 19:53.01 | dataw0lf | of violence |
| 19:53.02 | dataw0lf | etc |
| 19:53.50 | dataw0lf | sjansen: well, a picture of Buddha, I'd probably go on weight watchers. Picture of an aborted child, I'd probably vomit. |
| 19:54.07 | sjansen | exactly |
| 19:54.15 | rsimpkins | dataw0lf: Either way you loose weight. ;) |
| 19:54.30 | Tene | dataw0lf: is that an exaggeration, or do you really have that much of a response? |
| 19:54.42 | sjansen | A picture is worth a whole lot more than a thousand words. |
| 19:54.48 | Tene | Also, is that significant of a response pretty typical for people? |
| 19:55.23 | sjansen | I suspect dataw0lf is made of stronger stuff than most people. |
| 19:55.32 | dataw0lf | Tene: it's an exaggeration, obviously (for me). However, there is still an instinctive sense of disgust and violation when looking at a picture of a fetuse. |
| 19:55.34 | rsimpkins | Tene: If my 3 year old answered the door to a big poster showing an aborted child. I would chase the clown who did that down the street with my shovel. |
| 19:55.40 | dataw0lf | dead fetus* |
| 19:55.58 | sjansen | A child is not an adult. |
| 19:56.18 | sjansen | Not amount of wishing it otherwise will change the fact that it takes years to mature mentally and emotionally. |
| 19:56.22 | dataw0lf | and anyone showing something obscene in public has to think about the kids. |
| 19:56.35 | sjansen | And even adults shouldn't be subjected to certain things unless they seek it out. |
| 19:56.42 | dataw0lf | agreed. |
| 19:56.44 | macnewbold | offensive and obscene have definitions that vary depending upon the person/community, which makes it very hard to legislate |
| 19:57.12 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: I agree, but I think American society, in general, has a good sense of what's appropriate in public and what's not. |
| 19:57.27 | dataw0lf | and dead babies in public isn't appropriate. |
| 19:57.45 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.15 | dataw0lf | anyways, I digress, I need to go to On The Border and have a beer with the girlfriend. |
| 19:58.18 | Tene | goozbach: there's PBF, but I don't remember a PBF strip like that. |
| 19:58.20 | sjansen | In general, Americans might be reasonable. In specific instances, we're capable of infinite insanity. |
| 19:58.47 | goozbach | or the one with an old guy watching out the window to see people slipping on the ice patch he purposefully created on his front walk |
| 19:58.54 | graphyx | never underestimate the stupidity of the individual |
| 19:58.55 | graphyx | or the masses. |
| 19:59.15 | goozbach | Tene: is that Perry Bible Fellowship? |
| 19:59.15 | sjansen | A mother discrete breast feeding in a public place isn't obscene, certainly shouldn't be illegal, but sometimes stupid cops think it is. |
| 19:59.23 | graphyx | even harleypig keeps his odd stuff away from kids. |
| 19:59.46 | goozbach | no it's not that one, I was reading PBF and it reminded me of that. |
| 20:00.00 | graphyx | Though I think he show it just to get the shock value. |
| 20:00.10 | Tene | goozbach: A Softer World has some disturbing stuff, but isn't the one you're thinking of. |
| 20:00.29 | goozbach | nope, that's more of a bait-and-switch |
| 20:00.42 | rsimpkins | Woot, crossed a year: 1:00pm up 369 days, 13:28, 1 user, load average: 0.55, 0.17, 0.06 |
| 20:00.43 | goozbach | sjansen: do you remember? it was one I kept passing around at GL |
| 20:01.00 | Tene | smbc is kind of similar also |
| 20:02.44 | goozbach | Tene: yeah it's a "gag a day" type comic much like smbc |
| 20:06.37 | harleypig | sjansen: What were your problems with linode? |
| 20:15.01 | Jayce^ | sjansen, but remember, discrete is not what many do :) |
| 20:16.00 | Tene | Jayce^: elaborate? |
| 20:25.39 | Jayce^ | Tene, especially in brasil it's normal to just let it all out. often letting each kid take a turn in public.. not the greatest thing to have to see all the time |
| 20:26.37 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: Probably okay for the kids though, cause they see lunch, not something else. |
| 20:27.26 | Tene | I'm not certain I understand the "have to see" thing. Does it really affect you that much what other people are doing when they don't interact with you? |
| 20:27.56 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins, not for all the others.. |
| 20:28.13 | Jayce^ | Tene, a) yes b) they often were interacting with us |
| 20:28.21 | Tene | Jayce^: 'kay. |
| 20:29.19 | Jayce^ | a friends wife is one of those militant breastfeeders.. get's angry at us for not wanting to be around when she's just hanging out (doesn't cover anything).. |
| 20:29.37 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: Is that just a cultural difference? Do other guys from Brazil think it is odd? |
| 20:30.15 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins, most guys didn't like it most of the time... |
| 20:30.39 | Jayce^ | compared to how my wife only shows when the darn kid rips the blanket off :) |
| 20:35.46 | ^Migs^ | lol, look at this flag for Robocopy: /R:n :: number of Retries on failed copies: default 1 million. |
| 20:35.59 | ^Migs^ | that's hilarious. 1 million retries. |
| 20:36.35 | ^Migs^ | didn't work the 627,489th time, maybe it'll work the 627,490th! |
| 20:44.25 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:44.26 | goozbach | mexico is the same |
| 20:45.06 | tensai | mexico retries 1 million times? |
| 20:45.25 | goozbach | letting it all hang out breastfeeding |
| 20:46.55 | tensai | I sympothize with the mothers. asking them to go to the bathroom to feed their kid is just rude. would *you* like you eat in the potty? |
| 20:46.59 | rsimpkins | How many years ago were we all just running around naked any way? |
| 20:48.03 | rsimpkins | Something about being a mom awakens some instinct some place. It is all about the child - hang everything else. |
| 20:49.26 | ^Migs^ | what do you have against the bathroom? |
| 20:49.39 | graphyx | My wife always covers up, but don't think that cause she covers up means that it shouldn't happen in public. |
| 20:50.06 | ^Migs^ | I don't like women who think they can just whip it out anywhere and it's okay. It's just showing fof. |
| 20:50.31 | tensai | ^Migs^: A) there's usually not a good place to sit, and feeding standing up is uncomfortable |
| 20:50.40 | Tene | So combine this issue with the video linked her on monday with the woman that keeps breastfeeding her children until after they're 8 years old |
| 20:51.10 | ^Migs^ | they need to either (A) find a private place, or (B) pump their breastmilk beforehand so it's handy for feeding time |
| 20:51.16 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 20:51.26 | tensai | ^Migs^: B) eating in a bathroom? seriously, would you? |
| 20:51.31 | ^Migs^ | if breastfeeding in public is supposed to be legal, then at what age is it ILLEGAL? |
| 20:51.39 | ^Migs^ | I eat in my bathroom all the time |
| 20:51.50 | tensai | ok, so do I |
| 20:51.56 | ^Migs^ | like when I'm hungry but I have to take a fat dump that I know is going to take, like, an hour |
| 20:52.08 | graphyx | There is a limit. I think that once they can ask for lunch with proper language usage that you have waited too long to ween them. |
| 20:52.34 | ^Migs^ | is breastfeeding in public legal now? |
| 20:52.35 | graphyx | Weening probably should come before potty training. |
| 20:52.41 | graphyx | ^Migs^: yes. |
| 20:52.48 | Jayce^ | tensai, don't mind if they are out of the bathroom, just if they are showing off.. just a blanket works fine.. |
| 20:52.51 | Tene | I personally don't have a problem with breastfeeding in public and I feel like the only real argument against it is the traditional insane anti-body anti-sexuality anti-women things. |
| 20:52.55 | graphyx | is eating in public legal? |
| 20:52.58 | ^Migs^ | okay, so that mom could just lift up her shirt for her 12 year-old and start breastfeeding, and that would be okay? |
| 20:53.15 | ^Migs^ | well, women shouldn't be in public in the first place... |
| 20:53.23 | graphyx | ^Migs^: it wouldn't be illegas |
| 20:53.27 | graphyx | illegal |
| 20:53.56 | tensai | all the 12 year-olds I know would refuse |
| 20:53.57 | ^Migs^ | so no police officer would arrest her? |
| 20:53.59 | graphyx | Next on #utah recognizing peoples keyboarding styles by their types. |
| 20:54.23 | Tene | graphyx: which keyboarding style leads to typing "types" instead of "typos"? |
| 20:54.38 | graphyx | Tene: yes |
| 20:55.01 | graphyx | case in point. |
| 20:55.26 | Tene | graphyx: which keyboarding style is named "yes"? |
| 20:55.44 | ^Migs^ | the problem is that these women think there's nothing wrong with their boobs when they breastfeed in public. That's clearly false. If I had a giant hairy pus-filled cancerous mole on my butt, I wouldn't just pull down my pants in public and let everyone see it. |
| 20:55.59 | Tene | That's ridiculous, migs. |
| 20:56.20 | Tene | Nearly all female humans have breasts. |
| 20:56.32 | graphyx | as well as all the males |
| 20:56.37 | Tene | Breasts are typical for female humans. cencerous moles are atypical. |
| 20:56.38 | brac | as well or better than local mailing lists are due to some of the sllug-members list is? |
| 20:56.44 | ^Migs^ | yeah, but males have nice-looking breasts, which is why we don't need to cover them up |
| 20:57.21 | ^Migs^ | I don't just have breasts, I have manboobs |
| 20:57.32 | emcnabb | harleypig: ^Migs^ wants you |
| 20:57.50 | Jayce^ | chillin' with the bro's 'eh? |
| 20:57.56 | graphyx | no typo there |
| 20:58.04 | graphyx | think seinfeld. |
| 20:58.47 | ^Migs^ | I got the joke the first time |
| 20:59.06 | graphyx | Well nonwithstanding the immensely riveting conversation, it is time for me to hit the road. |
| 20:59.09 | graphyx | ciao! |
| 20:59.36 | tensai | women's breasts are different than men's breasts, so the same rules don't necessarily apply |
| 21:00.38 | harleypig | tensai: How are they different? I mean besides actually producing milk (men have milk glands and fatty tissue too--given enough estrogen shots a man cna produce milk). |
| 21:03.20 | harleypig | And they aren't as hairy. |
| 21:03.23 | harleypig | eww |
| 21:03.24 | tensai | harleypig: witness the fact that men go ga-ga over women and not men. I could believe an argument that it's cultural and not completely physiological, but the difference is there. |
| 21:04.10 | Tene | http://www.hammeruncut.com/proof-that-evolution-is-a-fairy-tale/ -- o.O |
| 21:04.44 | Tene | tensai: I've seen women do the same over men before. |
| 21:05.13 | ^Migs^ | my filter says taht site is NWS |
| 21:05.22 | Tene | orly? |
| 21:06.02 | Tene | Oh, looks like a couple of ads aren't very tasteful. |
| 21:07.03 | Tene | Also looks like it has links to a few distasteful sites. |
| 21:07.11 | Tene | That's what annoys me about embedded youtube videos, there's no convenient way to get a link straight to the video on youtube. |
| 21:09.53 | beandog | wget -m http://www.youtube.com/ |
| 21:10.50 | Tene | beandog: doesn't tell me which of the billion pages I'd download is the one I want. |
| 21:11.13 | redbeard1 | do i listen to pop music because i'm depressed? or am i depressed because i listen to pop music? |
| 21:11.33 | Tene | redbeard1: they're both symptoms of something else. |
| 21:11.48 | jsmith | redbeard1: You listen to pop music because at least it's not country. |
| 21:12.21 | redbeard1 | good answers |
| 21:12.35 | beandog | redbeard1: try out some new age |
| 21:12.37 | beandog | its anti-depressing. |
| 21:12.58 | tensai | o/~ There's a tear in my bear cuz I'm cryin' for you dear ~/o |
| 21:13.13 | beandog | shouldnt that be beer? |
| 21:13.28 | tensai | whoops |
| 21:13.29 | redbeard1 | i think i grew out of new age long ago |
| 21:13.43 | tensai | beandog: I must be subconciously missing my teddy bear |
| 21:13.44 | jsmith | o/~ You could set my truck on fire, you could roll it down a hill... ~/o |
| 21:14.13 | tensai | I like to listen to country. some of it ain't bad. the rest is just funny. |
| 21:14.15 | jsmith | o/~ ... if it weren't for trucks, we wouldn't have tail gates ~/o |
| 21:14.37 | tensai | you'd think there would be a limit to the amount of music you could write about alcohol, but tis not so |
| 21:14.43 | tensai | or at least we haven't hit it yet |
| 21:15.47 | beandog | redbeard1: grew out of? |
| 21:15.53 | beandog | like got tired of it or what |
| 21:16.01 | jsmith | tensai: Funny you should mention that... my son was listening to some country on the radio the other day... four songs in a row all about booze |
| 21:17.10 | sjansen | harleypig: My biggest problem with linode was speed. UML is _sloooooooooooow_. Otherwise, the service was great. |
| 21:17.19 | redbeard1 | beandog: grew up |
| 21:17.34 | beandog | sjansen: check out serverpronto.com. your own server for the same price |
| 21:17.55 | beandog | that's where Im hosting all my shtuff. |
| 21:18.04 | tensai | whatever you do, don't use neverblock.com. worst. service. ever. |
| 21:18.05 | beandog | or half of it at least. |
| 21:18.27 | tensai | right goozbach? |
| 21:18.35 | harleypig | sjansen: Ah. I've only found the speed to be a problem when I had a lot of io usage. |
| 21:19.02 | jsmith | beandog: I've got some good Brazilian jazz I picked up in Kansas City... |
| 21:19.36 | beandog | anyone got any good suggestions for a KDE icon set? |
| 21:20.01 | tensai | must be sleeping. but I can't leave a comment like that hanging though. I'm just teasing goo. |
| 21:20.37 | sjansen | beandog: Already found slicehost.com, but thanks. |
| 21:21.28 | beandog | sjansen: you likey? |
| 21:22.19 | beandog | looks nice |
| 21:23.02 | sjansen | _Very_ speedy. Amazing price too. |
| 21:23.17 | sjansen | But I don't like the fact that you can have multiple virtual disks. |
| 21:23.39 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@stderr.ws) |
| 21:26.03 | beandog | what do oyu mean |
| 21:26.42 | sjansen | s/can/can't/ |
| 21:27.30 | sjansen | I liked the fact that on linode you could divide your disk allocation into "virtual disk" so I could have a CentOS disk and a Ubuntu disk making it easier to move from one OS to the other. |
| 21:28.15 | sjansen | I want to upgrade my slice from CentOS 4 to CentOS 5 but don't want to do an in place upgrade. |
| 21:29.16 | Jayce^ | jsmith, what band/album? |
| 21:29.33 | jsmith | Jayce^: Sons of Brazil/Sons of Brazil |
| 21:29.54 | jsmith | Jayce^: They're a local band in K.C.... but they were incredible... did the whole gamut of Brazilian jazz |
| 21:30.27 | sjansen | jsmith: Jazz is good Brazilian Jazz is good. Country is also good. The truck song you quoted, that's a great song. |
| 21:30.37 | sjansen | I can't decide if you have your head on straight or not. |
| 21:30.52 | sjansen | On the one can, you recognize good music when you hear it. |
| 21:31.05 | sjansen | On the other hand, you can't recognize good music when you hear it. |
| 21:31.34 | lukfugl | how a mind enlightened by jazz, especially brazilian jazz, can still tolerate country... |
| 21:31.37 | jsmith | sjansen: "I met all my wives in traffic jams..." What kind of lyrics are those? |
| 21:31.43 | jsmith | lukfugl: Amen! |
| 21:32.18 | jsmith | sjansen: But the worst line in that song is "If it weren't for trucks we wouldn't have tailgates"... I mean... that's just plain silly. |
| 21:33.21 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 21:36.53 | sjansen | jsmith: Exactly. People claim all country is whiny. It isn't. Some is silly. |
| 21:37.25 | sjansen | Some country is sad. Some is happy. Some songs are about love. Other songs are about drinking. |
| 21:37.49 | sjansen | Country is about friends, parents, pets, guns, politics, etc. |
| 21:37.54 | sjansen | Country is about life. |
| 21:38.48 | jsmith | sjansen: But my life isn't about driving trucks or crying in beer or whining or chasing women or politics |
| 21:38.55 | sjansen | How many other genres embrace the entire spectrum of human emotion? |
| 21:39.15 | sjansen | That's why I love Country. |
| 21:39.33 | jsmith | sjansen: Jazz, classical, pop, elevator music.... |
| 21:39.44 | sjansen | Pop? Did you really say pop? |
| 21:40.16 | sjansen | Maybe classical. Maybe jazz if you look around enough. But pop?! |
| 21:40.21 | sjansen | Surely you jest. |
| 21:41.26 | sjansen | Pop is the antithesis of exploring human emotion. It's like walking up to a piano, pressing the same key repeatedly and calling it music. |
| 21:41.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Is ~$1300 (includes first month's rent) way too much to move into a $600 a month apartment, if you've got a dog? |
| 21:41.42 | sjansen | Pop might by popular, but most of it is barely music. |
| 21:41.50 | jsmith | sjansen: Yeah, just like walking up to a guitar, strumming the same chords, and whining about the same topics |
| 21:42.39 | sjansen | jsmith: Perhaps you're confusing Country with what's played on the radio. |
| 21:42.43 | jsmith | Besides, I'd bet 8 out of 10 people would say there's really not that much of a divide between mainstream pop and mainstream country these days |
| 21:42.59 | jsmith | sjansen: No, I dislike both kinds ... "country" and "western" |
| 21:43.10 | sjansen | *shrug* |
| 21:43.11 | jsmith | sjansen: You have to understand though... I'm jaded. |
| 21:43.21 | sjansen | I guess it's not my problem if your life is less rich. |
| 21:43.27 | jsmith | sjansen: I grew up in a sleepy little town with only one radio station |
| 21:43.41 | jsmith | sjansen: And that was a country western station piped in from the heart of Texas |
| 21:43.55 | jsmith | sjansen: Well, you can imagine the rest of the story |
| 21:44.07 | sjansen | I wish that everyone could feel the joy that is a good Country song. But if you to remain blind, jsmith, who'm I to question? |
| 21:44.44 | sjansen | jsmith: I mourn for you, but I respect your right to live as you choose. |
| 21:45.31 | jsmith | sjansen: That's OK... it's not like I just listen to *one* kind of music... my likes include jazz, a capella, new age, etc... so I'm not *just* listening to pop |
| 21:45.37 | goozbach | tensai: sorry I was on the phone with a customer, what did you say? |
| 21:47.16 | findlay | why are all of the best girls already married? |
| 21:47.19 | findlay | it's no fair |
| 21:47.22 | brac | it's no joke, I'm really tired of tetris |
| 21:47.30 | harleypig | findlay: You just have to lower your standards. |
| 21:47.45 | goozbach | dating advice from harleypig... |
| 21:47.46 | goozbach | nice |
| 21:47.52 | harleypig | :] |
| 21:47.55 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.58 | goozbach | findlay: they aren't all married. |
| 21:48.04 | goozbach | I'm dating one of them |
| 21:48.12 | findlay | goozbach: produce them for me |
| 21:48.20 | lukfugl | findlay: because we were faster than you |
| 21:48.29 | Tene | findlay: because the best guys all take multiple girls. |
| 21:48.47 | harleypig | Nice girls are a myth. |
| 21:48.54 | findlay | I'm weary of meeting all of these neat girls and then finding out they were just married within the last few months/years |
| 21:49.02 | rsimpkins | findlay: There are lots of wonderful women out there who would love to marry you. |
| 21:49.29 | rsimpkins | findlay: So, you want someone without baggage? |
| 21:49.38 | goozbach | findlay: good luck |
| 21:49.51 | sjansen | findlay: Welcome to that magical time in life known as "regret". |
| 21:49.55 | findlay | what? I never said anything about baggage |
| 21:50.12 | rsimpkins | findlay: Isn't a husband baggage? ;) |
| 21:50.24 | findlay | I'm talking about meeting girls I like and then being consistently dissapointed |
| 21:50.28 | atoponce | nintendo8.com |
| 21:50.30 | atoponce | requires jre |
| 21:50.54 | findlay | rsimpkins: oh, well, then yes :) |
| 21:50.56 | sjansen | findlay: There's a country song about that. Perhaps you should drown your sorrows in a sea of sad music. ;-) |
| 21:51.19 | findlay | goozbach: and there for your enjoyment is dating advice from sjansen :) |
| 21:51.28 | harleypig | findlay: Maybe you should examine your expectations then. |
| 21:52.07 | rsimpkins | findlay: My friend got on that lds singles web site and was married two weeks later. |
| 21:53.26 | findlay | rsimpkins: no thanks. I can find all the girls I need on myspace |
| 21:54.41 | atoponce | ~heat sjansen |
| 21:54.52 | sjansen | MySpace: proof positive that I'm getting old |
| 21:55.16 | sjansen | Get off my lawn you stupid kids! |
| 21:55.26 | findlay | ibot: myspace is proof that sjansen is getting old |
| 21:55.31 | ibot | ...but myspace is already something else... |
| 21:55.37 | findlay | ibot: myspace is also proof that sjansen is getting old |
| 21:55.40 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 21:55.51 | goozbach | ~myspace |
| 21:55.52 | ibot | rumour has it, myspace is the root of all evil, or proof that sjansen is getting old |
| 21:55.57 | goozbach | nice |
| 21:56.14 | findlay | getmyspace() |
| 21:57.08 | goozbach | findlay: dissapointed how? |
| 21:57.32 | goozbach | I need a recommendation on a moderatly priced tape backup autoloader |
| 21:57.46 | goozbach | something in the 8-12 tape range |
| 21:58.19 | findlay | goozbach: upon finding out either A) they are married, II) they are engaged, or D) they have a "boyfriend" |
| 21:58.25 | rsimpkins | An 8 core mac. |
| 21:58.34 | rsimpkins | What would I do with an 8 core mac? |
| 21:58.49 | findlay | rsimpkins: somebody ate 8 apples and left the cores?! |
| 21:58.57 | atoponce | rsimpkins: install linux |
| 21:58.59 | atoponce | duh |
| 21:59.09 | findlay | rsimpkins: you should plant them for the good of posterity |
| 21:59.16 | findlay | with a dead fish or something |
| 21:59.29 | tensai | goozbach: what kind of tape? |
| 21:59.58 | rsimpkins | I wonder if programs like after effects (or the latest video processing stuff) can take advantage of multi-core. |
| 22:00.07 | goozbach | tensai: not really sure yet |
| 22:00.14 | goozbach | I'm supossing DLT |
| 22:00.22 | findlay | tensai: probably duct tape |
| 22:00.33 | goozbach | haven't found anything on my usuall haunts |
| 22:02.34 | tensai | goozbach: I've got a DLT4 with 7 slots that we don't use any more. I could probably get it to you for cheap. |
| 22:02.34 | rsimpkins | Fully loaded macpro, only $15,717.00 |
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| 22:02.35 | goozbach | tensai: how many drives? just one? |
| 22:02.45 | tensai | goozbach: yeah, just one drive |
| 22:02.57 | mheath | rsimpkins, I know that cinelerra works on a cluster |
| 22:03.01 | tensai | I've also got a dds3 with like 20 slots, but you don't want that |
| 22:03.04 | mheath | I imagine it could be used with dual-core |
| 22:03.18 | mheath | erm |
| 22:03.20 | mheath | *8-core |
| 22:03.25 | findlay | or even trial-core |
| 22:03.36 | findlay | or on apple cores in this case |
| 22:04.20 | tensai | I was eating an apple the other day and it dumped core all over my shoes |
| 22:04.28 | mheath | http://www.heroinewarrior.com/chromakey.jpg |
| 22:04.42 | mheath | I have to say, an open source app that can do things like that is awesome :) |
| 22:04.58 | rsimpkins | I can't wait until they have 64 or 128 core machines. Then we'll be able to do some interesting things. :) |
| 22:05.28 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Naw, the power requirements will make them impractical. You're already having power issues ;-) |
| 22:06.43 | rsimpkins | jsmith: Well, back in the day they used huge 3 phase power connections. I think we are headed right back there. |
| 22:07.15 | findlay | multi-phase, multi-core computing |
| 22:07.15 | jsmith-away | rsimpkins: Yup... and it takes a whole lotta solar panels to power a huge 3-phase connection |
| 22:07.36 | jsmith-away | rsimpkins: The other problem is that most programs can't exploit multi-core systems |
| 22:08.00 | rsimpkins | jsmith-away: If the cores are there, software will catch up to it. |
| 22:08.17 | jsmith-away | rsimpkins: I doubt it... at least not for a long time |
| 22:08.35 | jsmith-away | rsimpkins: We've had SMP machines for quite a while now, and the software hasn't yet begun to get used to that |
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| 22:09.13 | rsimpkins | I'm optimistic. |
| 22:09.51 | findlay | ~optimize jsmith-away |
| 22:10.21 | jsmith-away | ~action unrolls findlays loops |
| 22:10.22 | ibot | ACTION unrolls findlays loops |
| 22:10.22 | lukfugl | jsmith is no longer relevant. he's been optimized away |
| 22:10.47 | lukfugl | ~action throw jsmith-away |
| 22:10.48 | ibot | ACTION throw jsmith-away |
| 22:10.54 | findlay | what happened to my loops? They're gone |
| 22:11.07 | jsmith-away | findlay: No, they've just been unrolled. For efficiency's sake. |
| 22:11.08 | elg | rsimpkins: there's no way current programs and programmers are going to exploit multicore |
| 22:11.24 | jsmith-away | elg: w00t! For once, someone agrees with me! |
| 22:11.27 | elg | it will take a huge paradigm shift |
| 22:11.38 | lukfugl | not until we're all writing in dialects of MapReduce :) |
| 22:11.39 | findlay | ~agree with jsmith-away |
| 22:12.09 | elg | while it is possible to write new software by a subset of programmers now |
| 22:12.34 | elg | not much of existing software that isn't already parallelized will be parallelizable |
| 22:13.16 | tensai | multi-core can be exploited by doing separate tasks at once though |
| 22:13.29 | elg | and even with new software, it won't be a pretty sight as long as the current crop of popular languages is at the top |
| 22:13.43 | elg | tensai: yes, definitely |
| 22:14.00 | elg | and remember a lot of stuff is IO bound these days |
| 22:14.09 | tensai | elg: don't expect intel to start pushing erlang |
| 22:15.07 | elg | erlang is cool, but I don't expect them to |
| 22:15.07 | sjansen | jsmith-away: Where you at? I'm coming to collect. |
| 22:15.25 | elg | but I'm saying don't expect average people to be writing good parallel code in C |
| 22:15.31 | elg | or Java or perl or... |
| 22:15.38 | lukfugl | elg: how far are you into jaerlang? |
| 22:15.43 | brac | how far did you decide you want that to be able to fork off a galloping horse to prove my age.. |
| 22:15.52 | findlay | yeah |
| 22:16.01 | elg | chapter 8 |
| 22:16.10 | elg | Error Handling |
| 22:19.55 | tensai | I recall John Carmack weighed in on this issue when Quake 3 came out. he did write q3 to be smp aware, but he said there's wasn't a whole lot of advantage to it. |
| 22:21.38 | elg | ironic, since those games are even possible only because the video card is processing independently of the game engine |
| 22:22.27 | findlay | elg: but they are completely different kinds of processes |
| 22:22.40 | elg | so? they're parallel |
| 22:22.51 | tensai | IIRC Q3 used one thread for sending off gl* calls and another thread for everything else |
| 22:22.56 | jsmith | sjansen: I'm in Virginia... |
| 22:23.11 | findlay | is there a Santa Claus there? |
| 22:23.26 | tensai | jsmith: careful, he travels enough he may actually show up |
| 22:23.35 | tensai | he's probably got enough miles to get a free trip |
| 22:23.46 | jsmith | tensai: If he does, I'll treat him to a nice grilled tube-steak |
| 22:24.12 | jsmith | tensai: I'd even offer him a place to stay, but I don't even have a place to stay yet |
| 22:25.23 | jsmith | tensai: Pretty much, only the fan noise was too much |
| 22:25.33 | jsmith | I have, however, slept on my share of datacenter floors |
| 22:26.01 | jsmith | (both with concrete floors and raised floors) |
| 22:26.01 | tensai | I slept on my office floor once |
| 22:26.28 | jsmith | When you've racked as many servers as I have... you get all kinds of experiences you wouldn't normally get. |
| 22:26.45 | tensai | jsmith: did you ever consider climing down and hiding under the raised floor? |
| 22:27.18 | jsmith | tensai: I've done my fair share of climbing under raised floors (in tropical Latin American countries) |
| 22:29.07 | macnewbold | can't say I've done it in that exotic of a location, but I've done it |
| 22:34.14 | elg | how many tarantulas and giant roaches were there under there jsmith? |
| 22:34.42 | findlay | enough to eat a good dinner |
| 22:35.15 | jsmith | elg: I didn't see many spiders, luckily... but there were enough roaches to feed a small village |
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