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| 01:08.33 | xbmodder_lappy | I need to ask for a favor. |
| 01:08.44 | xbmodder_lappy | How many of you have been to Zion National Park? |
| 01:10.19 | goozbach | I have |
| 01:11.22 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, is it nice? |
| 01:12.14 | sanchiro | I have |
| 01:12.22 | sanchiro | It's beautiful down there..... |
| 01:12.30 | goozbach | very nice |
| 01:12.40 | sanchiro | best is to hike through and camp there....but nice anyway you can make it |
| 01:13.01 | sanchiro | I spent many summers as a young boy there...with grandparents living close by in Kanab.... |
| 01:18.25 | sanchiro | ls |
| 01:19.20 | drip | very nice place. |
| 01:19.28 | drip | especially fun if you have rapelling equipment |
| 01:19.57 | drip | although I wouldn't go into some of those slot canyons right now |
| 01:21.45 | gthornock | No, definitely not a good time for slot canyons. The rest of the park should be great, though. |
| 01:29.41 | goozbach | it's beautiful there |
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| 02:11.43 | goozbach | ~lart Maquis |
| 02:11.47 | goozbach | ha |
| 02:11.55 | xbmodder_lappy | Maquis, hey |
| 02:12.46 | Maquis | ~lart goozbach |
| 02:15.16 | byronc | anyone else working on the python challenge? |
| 02:15.36 | Maquis | no... anybody here finished problem 4 on the google practice puzzles? |
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| 02:26.08 | goozbach | ~lart goozbach |
| 02:26.19 | goozbach | ~lart goozbach |
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| 02:26.38 | goozbach | I love that lart |
| 02:28.29 | goozbach | ~smack goozbach for maquis |
| 02:28.30 | ibot | ACTION smacks goozbach for maquis upside the head. |
| 02:29.23 | goozbach | that didn't parse like I thought it would |
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| 03:37.56 | Maquis | gthornock: how's it going? |
| 03:39.13 | gthornock | All right, I suppose. |
| 03:39.28 | Maquis | apologies for the confusion regarding the uug meeting... |
| 03:39.47 | gthornock | No problem |
| 03:40.42 | Maquis | we had a rather impressive lack of communication for a little bit :) |
| 03:41.23 | Maquis | (well, we had communication... but messages were getting jumbled in transit... :) |
| 03:41.58 | gthornock | That seems to happen, especially outside of fall/winter when people are gone. |
| 03:42.26 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 03:43.08 | Maquis | that's actually what caused the problem... a couple of us in the presidency aren't in utah... :) |
| 03:44.52 | gthornock | I thought that was likely the case. |
| 03:45.05 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:45.26 | Maquis | too bad... i really wanted to see the ethereal presentation |
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| 03:49.03 | levi-laptop | Good evening. |
| 03:49.18 | Maquis | evening |
| 03:49.26 | levi-laptop | How's it going? |
| 03:49.30 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:49.33 | Maquis | tis going |
| 03:50.09 | Maquis | bbiab |
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| 05:50.12 | linuxalien | Anyone home? |
| 05:51.07 | levi-laptop | Yup. |
| 05:55.39 | levi-laptop | What's a media room? |
| 05:56.37 | linuxalien | :) |
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| 06:33.13 | TimRiker | levi-laptop: well, all rooms are media rooms... =) this one is a cave. ie: no windows, surround sound, etc. |
| 06:33.35 | levi-laptop | Ahh, a fun room. :) |
| 06:37.39 | asynic | TimRiker: wtf are all these connections coming in? http://rikers.org/gallery/1308Neches/20050531_161147 |
| 06:40.06 | levi-laptop | It's a patch box, they're not all incoming. |
| 06:59.58 | TimRiker | asynic: cable out to rooms, and a return from rooms. network drops, phone drops. |
| 07:00.48 | TimRiker | blacks go out to rooms, white are returns, blue are phone, and green (lower case) for ethernet. |
| 07:01.12 | TimRiker | of course in and out cables are the same, so you can use them for different things if desired. |
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| 07:14.09 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 07:14.09 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the force be with you! |
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| 14:20.06 | hans | ~lart emcnabb |
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| 14:25.02 | emcnabb | ~lart hans |
| 14:25.05 | levi-laptop | Good morning. |
| 14:25.13 | emcnabb | good morning to you |
| 14:28.57 | levi-laptop | Wassup? |
| 14:33.22 | emcnabb | no much |
| 14:33.25 | emcnabb | not |
| 14:34.08 | emcnabb | just doing the regular morning routine: e-mail and news |
| 14:41.19 | hans | don't forget larting |
| 14:42.12 | emcnabb | oh yeah |
| 14:42.13 | emcnabb | that too |
| 14:44.12 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
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| 15:24.20 | vontrapp | ~lart hans |
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| 15:26.12 | tensai | hans: did you ever catch your rogue admin? |
| 15:29.20 | hans | tensai: I never heard anything more |
| 15:29.39 | hans | I think he stumbled on Jayce's grenade collection |
| 15:35.56 | tapH20guru | ~lart tapH20guru |
| 15:36.04 | tapH20guru | hmm |
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| 16:04.19 | levi-laptop | Because it's very loaded? |
| 16:04.25 | hans | it sits at 3.0 forever, even with no obvious load |
| 16:04.44 | levi-laptop | Is it a virtualized box of some sort? |
| 16:04.55 | hans | no |
| 16:05.02 | hans | just a regular server |
| 16:05.32 | levi-laptop | Maybe some processes are blocking in a strange manner. |
| 16:06.50 | *** join/#utah scott (scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 16:08.08 | scott | anyone know of a free blogging site that will let you put google ads on your page? |
| 16:09.39 | levi-laptop | scott: Why would a free blogging site want to let you put google ads on your page? |
| 16:10.17 | tene_ | scott: |
| 16:10.31 | tene_ | I've heard that localhost has a really nice hosting policy. |
| 16:11.53 | scott | levi-laptop: well that may not be their intention--they may just allow you to edit the templates and then you would be able to add that in |
| 16:12.18 | hans | levi-laptop: it's got to be something like that. odd thing is, the other day it was stuck at 4. Some samba processes were doing something odd, so I restarted samba and the load dropped |
| 16:12.19 | mrpull | scott... I assume blogger would let you :) |
| 16:12.23 | hans | apparently it stopped at 3.0 though |
| 16:12.50 | hans | load average: 3.00, 3.00, 3.00 |
| 16:12.52 | hans | Cpu(s): 0.0% us, 0.0% sy, 0.0% ni, 100.0% id, 0.0% wa, 0.0% hi, 0.0% si |
| 16:13.01 | hans | Mem: 510344k total, 495912k used, 14432k free, 59936k buffers |
| 16:13.01 | hans | Swap: 1016084k total, 0k used, 1016084k free, 290060k cached |
| 16:13.11 | hans | Tasks: 89 total, 1 running, 87 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie |
| 16:13.38 | tensai | load average does not correlate with CPU usage |
| 16:13.45 | hans | not directly |
| 16:13.58 | hans | i know the definition. |
| 16:14.19 | tensai | there must be 3 somethings sitting around doing nothing |
| 16:14.35 | hans | no, sitting around ready to run |
| 16:14.41 | hans | but not being run |
| 16:15.24 | tensai | that's what I meant by doing nothing. ready to do, but not able |
| 16:16.35 | tensai | ps aux |grep ' [RD]' |
| 16:18.25 | vontrapp | grrr, freakin firefox is pausing everytime i enter a new field |
| 16:18.41 | vontrapp | takes like a second before it lets me enter anything |
| 16:19.45 | vontrapp | i installed tab x and focus last selected tab extensions, but can't see how those would effect this behaviour |
| 16:20.27 | scott | tensai: just loaded up this accountnig program and saw your name down at the bottom |
| 16:20.51 | tensai | scott: really? which one? |
| 16:20.59 | scott | Introduction to Accounting software at BYU |
| 16:21.37 | tensai | oh, yeah. I did that once upon a time. |
| 16:21.58 | tapH20guru | I wonder... does BYU sponsor / release anything under a FOSS license? |
| 16:23.18 | tensai | tapH20guru: PAF has been considered. don't count it out yet, but don't hold your breath either. |
| 16:23.36 | tapH20guru | I'll have to stick with GRAMPS for now |
| 16:40.03 | emcnabb | tapH20guru, http://oss.cs.byu.edu/ |
| 16:41.32 | tapH20guru | emcnabb: nice.. I'm impressed |
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| 17:32.21 | levi-laptop | Nice. |
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| 20:11.33 | bucky | http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2772831 |
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| 20:22.44 | levi-laptop | bucky: Saw that earlier. Man, that guy's a freakin' nutjob. |
| 20:22.55 | bucky | no kidding |
| 20:23.31 | emcnabb | he's Totally Awesome |
| 20:24.15 | bucky | well now he needs "The Totally Awesome Law Firm" |
| 20:24.30 | levi-laptop | I now also think a coworker is a bit of a nutjob, too. |
| 20:25.56 | bucky | Dan the laptop man? |
| 20:26.02 | levi-laptop | Apparently, the coworker sometimes carries two concealed weapons as well. |
| 20:26.28 | bucky | Oh.. the Totally Awesome Militia |
| 20:27.13 | bucky | it's not like schanze was pulled over by gang members |
| 20:27.40 | levi-laptop | He's apparently a bit more diligent about actually obeying the rules that go along with the permit, but someone who feels it's reasonable to carry around a couple of loaded weapons on his person doesn't seem quite right in the head to me. |
| 20:28.00 | bucky | his own neighbors in the rich part of town were sick of him driving 75 mph thru the sub division |
| 20:28.21 | levi-laptop | What are you going to do, draw them both and go all John Woo on your assailant? |
| 20:29.00 | bucky | yeah.. when your assailant (fed up neighbor) is armed with a rock |
| 20:29.14 | levi-laptop | I've got another coworker who lives up there and probably ticks off the neighbors with his driving as well. |
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| 20:29.44 | hans | man, that reporter should be charged with brandishing big words |
| 20:29.51 | bucky | levi-laptop, a friend gave me a bicycle |
| 20:30.17 | levi-laptop | bucky: Cool, what kind? |
| 20:30.20 | bucky | i need a bike carrier so i can bring it to SLC and go riding around |
| 20:30.29 | bucky | a cheapo.. trek |
| 20:30.50 | levi-laptop | Mountain bike? Road bike? Hybrid? |
| 20:31.03 | levi-laptop | hans: What big words? |
| 20:31.06 | lars-ut | 75 mph through a subdivision? Oops, did I drop my caltraps? |
| 20:31.10 | bucky | hybrid i guess |
| 20:32.07 | bucky | it's not a fancy bike but i love it |
| 20:32.39 | hans | in the first paragraph. magnate, brandishing, altercation |
| 20:33.03 | levi-laptop | Trek's a pretty good brand. A far sight better than Wal-Mart bikes. |
| 20:33.05 | lars-ut | sounds like the trib: for elitists b elitists |
| 20:33.07 | emcnabb | I can see it now... A man walks into Totally Awesome Computers: "Mr. Schanze, the computer I bought sucks. It's not totally awesome." Mr Schanze: Pulls out Glock. "What did you say?" Customer: "I said you're totally awesome, dude" |
| 20:33.27 | levi-laptop | hans: What's wrong with magnate, brandishing, and altercation? |
| 20:33.36 | lars-ut | nothing on irc |
| 20:33.51 | bucky | "This was a very simple case of freakin' psycho road ragers," Schanze said. "They didn't like how I was driving and they came after me." |
| 20:33.53 | levi-laptop | Why would they be wrong in the newspaper? |
| 20:34.07 | hans | ntohing's wrong with them |
| 20:34.17 | bucky | they were afraid he was going to run over their children |
| 20:34.25 | lars-ut | depends on who your target audience is |
| 20:35.14 | hans | i agree most people are going to know what brandish means, and it's obvious what the other two mean from context |
| 20:35.15 | bucky | sounds like dell has been chased before by "freakin' psycho road ragers" |
| 20:35.53 | lars-ut | Don't confuse the trib with the Wall Street Journal - I'd expect to read these words there. |
| 20:35.56 | hans | but the reporter is obviously using big words (in the case of altercation and magnate) where others would suffice. |
| 20:36.06 | bucky | maybe it's vocabulary one upsmanship with the Deseret News |
| 20:36.23 | lars-ut | likely. |
| 20:36.25 | hans | and I may be wrong, but I don't think the trib is an academic publication, IOW it's aimed at normal people with 5th grade vocabularies. |
| 20:36.43 | lars-ut | hence the problem with the words |
| 20:36.52 | bucky | maybe they're changing |
| 20:36.59 | bucky | LOL lars-ut |
| 20:37.01 | levi-laptop | Well, normal people would have much better vocabularies if things they were likely to read weren't written at a 5th grade level. |
| 20:37.04 | hans | but mostly, I think it's just amusing that this reporter is so into big words. :) |
| 20:37.24 | hans | me, I love to use (and read) things like altercation and magnate |
| 20:37.34 | bucky | i've never seen him before... i think he's new.. probably just out of college |
| 20:37.40 | levi-laptop | If you read things with big words whose meanings are clear from the context, you learn what those words mean. |
| 20:37.40 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: That's what books are for |
| 20:37.49 | hans | levi-laptop: yes, but they _wouldn't) read it |
| 20:38.07 | levi-laptop | hans: They don't read books, but newspapers are one of the few things people still read occasionally. |
| 20:38.20 | bucky | hans, what are you saying... that SLC is a breeding ground for stupid people? |
| 20:38.27 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 20:38.59 | lars-ut | local newspapers *should* be targeted at a larger audiences - that means 5th grade words - ie stupid people. |
| 20:39.26 | levi-laptop | Local newspapers should be targeted however their editors/managers feel they should be targeted. |
| 20:39.30 | lars-ut | lowest common denominator |
| 20:40.02 | levi-laptop | Having everything target the LCD is a sure way to lower it. |
| 20:40.08 | lars-ut | how about how their subscribers want them to be written? |
| 20:40.34 | bucky | maybe the Trib feels they have a lot of "stupid" capitol built up and can make a play for a smarter audience as well |
| 20:40.51 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: How do you know their subscribers, in general, don't like that style of writing? |
| 20:41.04 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: If you don't like it, stop subscribing. |
| 20:41.13 | lars-ut | I don't - how do you know their editors do? |
| 20:42.24 | levi-laptop | Well, the preferences of the subscribers are the problem of the editorial staff, and the editorial staff apparently didn't see fit to change the wording there, so my assumption is on slightly more solid ground than yours. |
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| 20:42.46 | bucky | Both the Trib and the Deseret News stopped carrying the story about how our former County Commissioner here perpetrated the biggest Ponzi scheme in the history of the U.S. after him and his son were indicted on 40 counts of bank fraud and money laundering |
| 20:43.19 | lars-ut | assuming the trib is already on solid ground - which it isn't. See above. |
| 20:43.37 | bucky | $114 million from 600 school districts in 20 different states including Utah |
| 20:43.44 | levi-laptop | See what above? |
| 20:44.03 | lars-ut | bucky's comment |
| 20:44.13 | levi-laptop | What's that got to do with using big words or not? |
| 20:44.32 | bucky | it's the content that's important to me |
| 20:44.35 | levi-laptop | Or whose preferences the managers/editors write to? |
| 20:45.11 | levi-laptop | It's up to the people who run the paper to decide how the paper works, not the subscribers. |
| 20:45.29 | bucky | they dragged their feet about reporting any of it until after the election... now his brother in law is our current County Commissioner.. the one who helped launder the money in fake trusts |
| 20:45.36 | lars-ut | Ok lemme go another route. You're argument assumes that the editors are inherently interested in the interests of the subscribers. I do not assume that. |
| 20:45.52 | levi-laptop | No, it doesn't. |
| 20:46.22 | lars-ut | Then how are the preferences of the subscribers the problem of the editorial staff? |
| 20:46.45 | levi-laptop | Because if they don't follow closely enough to the preferences of the subscribers, they lose them. |
| 20:46.56 | bucky | No body in Utah want's to know that Minnesota and Ohio want $190K from Sanpete School District because they were an early adopter into the MLM program |
| 20:47.13 | bucky | and that's just the tip of the iceburg |
| 20:47.22 | levi-laptop | Of course, they weigh the preferences of the subscribers with other factors as well. |
| 20:47.43 | bucky | and this is after Utah schools being bilked out of $9M from this company |
| 20:47.55 | lars-ut | But aren't the trib & the deseret news owned by the same person? |
| 20:48.14 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: What's that got to do with anything? |
| 20:48.33 | bucky | it's still under contention who owns the trib |
| 20:48.36 | lars-ut | The interests of a newspaper are not limited to pure capitalism. |
| 20:48.59 | lars-ut | A newspaper is a media outlet. |
| 20:49.04 | bucky | but Leo Hindery who looted WorldCom sold the Trib to a publisher |
| 20:49.52 | levi-laptop | So? Are you proposing some sort of governmentally-imposed editorial guidelines for publications that call themselves 'local newspapers'? |
| 20:49.56 | bucky | we want happy shiney news about how good our community is |
| 20:50.03 | bucky | not that depressing stuff |
| 20:52.37 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: I assume that any media outlet has its own interests(backers) at heart - not solely the interests of its readers. Remember newspapers often lose money. |
| 20:53.50 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: Okay, so you're complaining that the Trib doesn't have its 5th grade reading level subscribers in mind when it edits its stories? I don't understand what, if any, point is running through your arguments. |
| 20:55.06 | lars-ut | My point that by targeting a narrower audience you foster elitism of a sort. |
| 20:55.23 | lars-ut | Then again, they may be what the trib perefers. |
| 20:56.29 | levi-laptop | Ahh, the elitism of literacy. I see. |
| 20:56.39 | Bradipo | bucky: I'm not sure how these guys and their ``biggest ponzi scheme'' could be worse than Social Security. |
| 20:57.23 | bucky | I guess if Social Security would give 10% to the LDS church then that would be OK |
| 20:57.28 | Bradipo | lol |
| 20:57.36 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: Ask Pol Pot about the "elitism of literacy". |
| 20:57.53 | Bradipo | Except the money is essentially stolen money, and the church doesn't approve of tithing on stolen money. |
| 20:58.20 | hans | levi-laptop: you obviously think newspapers should be on a crusade to educate the public. That's keen. I think newspapers reflect what they think the literacy of their readers is. In my past experiences with newspapers, big words just aren't, therefore I found it amusing to find 3 big words in one paragraph. |
| 20:58.26 | hans | nothing more. |
| 20:58.43 | bucky | Ty Lewis and Cam Lewis took $5 dollars out of every Utah resident's pocket without any legislation to do so |
| 20:59.05 | levi-laptop | hans: No, I don't think newspapers necessarily ought to be on a crusade to educate. I wouldn't mind if a particular paper thought that was a good idea, though. |
| 20:59.20 | Bradipo | Even if they had legislation to do so, it still wouldn't be just. |
| 20:59.44 | bucky | Now 19 other states want a 30% refund on $103 Million from our school districts |
| 20:59.48 | levi-laptop | And I think lars-ut just has a bone to pick with the Trib, so I don't have anything further to say on the matter. |
| 21:00.01 | lars-ut | I do. |
| 21:00.05 | lars-ut | :) |
| 21:00.17 | levi-laptop | Quite obviously. Pol Pot indeed. |
| 21:00.22 | Bradipo | I think it is more interesting to read blogs than newspapers. :-) |
| 21:00.49 | Bradipo | Assuming one can find a decent blog to read. |
| 21:01.19 | lars-ut | Bradipo: Agreed. But it's not an exclusive bone. I just like to point out that every media outlet has its own interests - not yours or mine - at heart. |
| 21:01.26 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: if you wanna know, the Trib has a long history of anti-LDS bias |
| 21:01.35 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: I'm aware of that. |
| 21:02.02 | Hhhhh | that's what I have against most media, they put all kinds of crap bias into the truth |
| 21:02.13 | Hhhhh | just watch Fox News for conservative bias |
| 21:02.16 | Bradipo | lars-ut: I think I agree. The only person that has your own interests at heart is you. |
| 21:02.20 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: I don't know what that has to do with big words, though, unless there's an assumption that LDS people are, in general, only 5th grade literate. |
| 21:02.21 | lars-ut | Agreed. |
| 21:02.23 | bucky | I want to go back to the days when the Newhouse Building was still standing and there were brothels south of 4th south |
| 21:02.24 | Bradipo | This is why Social Security is such a farce. |
| 21:02.58 | Bradipo | People think that SS is a good thing because it takes away the burden of worrying and places it in the hands of someone (something) that has no interest. |
| 21:03.02 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: it has nothing to do with big words. I just find it rather unethical that some newspapers like the Trib blatantly post rumors as news |
| 21:03.07 | bucky | well Bush is going to take it away and spend the money on the God Gun in the Sky |
| 21:03.26 | Bradipo | Bush is going to ``reform'' it. Would that he would just make it go away. |
| 21:03.36 | bucky | reform? |
| 21:03.38 | Hhhhh | like, for example, saying that the LDS Church has a list of the bishops of influential politicians in order to apply pressure |
| 21:03.50 | Hhhhh | that's very unethical |
| 21:03.55 | Hhhhh | City Weekly is even worse |
| 21:04.18 | levi-laptop | Heh, City Weekly is funny. |
| 21:04.26 | Hhhhh | you're right, it's FUNNY |
| 21:04.34 | Hhhhh | in other words, a joke |
| 21:05.06 | bucky | you're going to find out all these "Christians" aren't your friends even if you think they share the same "values" |
| 21:05.16 | Hhhhh | it's not that they do not sympathize with the LDS Church, the problem is that they blatantly publish lies |
| 21:05.29 | lars-ut | The same problem I have here with the trib or other media outlets is that they are not a business - they are adcocates for their backers points of view/causes, and will sacrifice profits in order to promote them. |
| 21:05.34 | Hhhhh | same reasons I have against Fox News |
| 21:06.00 | Hhhhh | lars-ut: more specificly, they'll post lies as long as they sell |
| 21:06.19 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: That's freedom of the press for you. The people with the money to run the press get to tell what they think. |
| 21:06.31 | levi-laptop | It sucks when they say things you don't like. |
| 21:06.38 | lars-ut | no they *produce* what they want to reoprt. |
| 21:06.42 | Hhhhh | nope, it sucks when they post things that aren't true |
| 21:06.55 | Hhhhh | if it was true it would upset me but I would not complain |
| 21:07.11 | levi-laptop | Yeah, but as long as they do it in a legal fashion, that's the price of the particular freedom. |
| 21:07.14 | lars-ut | Ever heard the phrase, "an ABC news poll reveals that.." that was aired by abc news? |
| 21:07.14 | bucky | well we have a big problem in Zion... the gays are taking over the Jordan River Parkway |
| 21:07.17 | Hhhhh | you see? it's not about stopping freedom of press, it's about stoping libel |
| 21:07.56 | *** join/#utah pseudoshroom (~schallee@lando.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:07.57 | tensai | *everybody* has a bias. find two people who have opposing biases, XOR and the truth will fall out. |
| 21:07.57 | bucky | in fact SLC has a bigger gay population per capita than San Francisco |
| 21:08.04 | Hhhhh | i don't think freedom of press support twisting the truth, but again, I guess you can use lots of words to make it look like it is not libel |
| 21:08.18 | lars-ut | and stopping labeling bias as if it's objective &/or responsible. |
| 21:08.34 | lars-ut | What I like is when bias is called bias. |
| 21:09.00 | Hhhhh | bias is unethical not not unlawful, libel is illegal |
| 21:09.11 | levi-laptop | Objectivity is a lie, anyway. Nothing is objective, by the very nature of observation. |
| 21:09.11 | Hhhhh | and that is what those newspapers do |
| 21:09.20 | lars-ut | yep |
| 21:09.27 | *** part/#utah pseudoshroom (~schallee@lando.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:09.28 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: that would be a whole other argument |
| 21:09.39 | Hhhhh | which I don't feel like starting |
| 21:09.49 | levi-laptop | So, I don't get very troubled over lack of objectivity in the media anymore. |
| 21:10.04 | levi-laptop | People will gravitate to what they want to hear, and others will be willing to tell it to them. |
| 21:10.23 | Hhhhh | hmm, it's just that they lack of objectivity simply serves political/economical purposes |
| 21:10.47 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:10.47 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 21:12.18 | gthornock | Find two people with opposing biases, XOR and you may well find out that the truth is off at the beach in Hawaii having nothing to do with either side. |
| 21:12.39 | lars-ut | What troubles me about news is when it is labeled as objective or responsible. The only responsibility a media outlet has is to further the inteterests of it's backers(owners), not its viewers or readers. When a business fails because it had bad product, or service, that's justice. A media outlet that is already running at a loss is just somebody's propaganda labeled as news. |
| 21:13.15 | Hhhhh | I concur. I please note that I agree for both sides of the political spectrum |
| 21:13.35 | Hhhhh | it is also wrong for Fox News to post conservative biased stuff |
| 21:13.40 | gthornock | Then there's the issue of catering to the advertisers' bias. |
| 21:13.45 | tensai | gthornock: so let's all go to hawaii! |
| 21:13.57 | levi-laptop | Some very profitable media outlets are probably also full of propaganda, just more popular propaganda. |
| 21:14.28 | levi-laptop | I don't think profitability is a very good gauge of objectivity at all. |
| 21:15.07 | Jayce^ | oooh, looks like I came in at a good time :) |
| 21:15.22 | gthornock | No, it's not. Profitability is a good gauge of printing what sells (either to the subscriber, or to the advertisers.) |
| 21:15.35 | gthornock | And a gauge of knowing how to make money. |
| 21:15.58 | lars-ut | Profitability can be a gauge of ther things: If a media outlet isn't interested in making money, what's it's purpose? |
| 21:16.01 | gthornock | Objectivity really has very little to do with it. |
| 21:16.17 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: What's making money got to do with objectivity? |
| 21:16.27 | vontrapp | lars-ut: what about pol pot and the elitism of literacy? |
| 21:16.54 | lars-ut | Pol Pot had everybody with glasses killed. |
| 21:17.05 | levi-laptop | vontrapp: I figured that was close enough to invoking Godwin's Law to not merit a response. |
| 21:17.11 | vontrapp | yeah, that's why i was confused, pol pot was ANTI elitist |
| 21:18.14 | bucky | this all started because hans thinks the Trib used words that are too big |
| 21:18.25 | vontrapp | funny, aint it? |
| 21:18.43 | tensai | ~lart hans |
| 21:18.48 | vontrapp | and what's more funny is pol pot was probably one of the most educated |
| 21:18.56 | levi-laptop | bucky: Uncharacteristically big, rather than too big, I would say. |
| 21:19.04 | bucky | lol |
| 21:19.40 | levi-laptop | vontrapp: Right, so he has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand, except as a big scary straw man. |
| 21:20.14 | lars-ut | Invert pol pot & it makes sense. |
| 21:20.36 | lars-ut | Control the masses by invluencing a small group of people. |
| 21:20.43 | vontrapp | levi-laptop: yeah, i'm just more interested in pol pot than the whole media dsicussion ;) |
| 21:21.14 | lars-ut | like you said, pol pot was very educated - he was leader of the very small group of intellectuals. |
| 21:21.41 | Hhhhh | yes, a group of intellectuals that were the cause of the torture and death of many |
| 21:21.42 | vontrapp | and it was really just paranoia that killed so many there |
| 21:22.11 | lars-ut | no, it was control. |
| 21:22.19 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: not a straw man |
| 21:22.41 | vontrapp | he controlled a very small group of intellectuals and those that he didn't control he was afraid of them doing anything about it |
| 21:22.48 | vontrapp | lars-ut: fear of loss of control |
| 21:22.56 | lars-ut | true |
| 21:23.09 | vontrapp | and he was losing control the whole way through |
| 21:23.28 | vontrapp | things just did not work for him, and he needed reasons, scape goats |
| 21:23.41 | lars-ut | like the LDS church? |
| 21:23.55 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: That was SO a straw man argument. |
| 21:24.00 | lars-ut | oh, sorry, wrong argument |
| 21:24.00 | vontrapp | and that turned into paranoia that peaple were sabotaging his government |
| 21:24.05 | lars-ut | yes it was |
| 21:24.28 | bucky | lars-ut, you mean the LDS intellectuals? |
| 21:24.42 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: You substituted a distorted, exaggerated, misrepresented version of what I said. |
| 21:24.46 | lars-ut | Alright, I thought I was in it before. |
| 21:25.37 | bucky | oxymormons? |
| 21:27.05 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: Then let me make clear what I'm saying: The trib does not solely exist to serve the interests of its readership. The trib exists to server the interests of its backers. If the backers prefer to cater to a narrower readership, that is their option. I just don't like the way it smells. |
| 21:27.54 | bucky | So when are the moral agents of the LDS church going to get Mafia corporation Aramark Industries off Lake Powell and out of the school lunch catering buisiness here? |
| 21:28.11 | bucky | that's what i want to know |
| 21:28.25 | vontrapp | sorry to jump on that cross thread there, i'm just really fond of cambodians and such topics peak my interest and i have things to say |
| 21:29.22 | bucky | My county commissioner screws our school districts out of $9 million and Shurtleff sits on his ass |
| 21:29.56 | vontrapp | the church steers very clear of politics |
| 21:30.20 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: Are we done? |
| 21:30.25 | bucky | the ruling party accepts bribes for every government contract that comes down here and our AG doesn't care |
| 21:30.51 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: I think your stated bias against the Trib has given you a distorted view of the article in question, and you are seeing conspiracy where there is none, i.e. in this particular article. I don't really have anything to say about the merits of the Trib in general, who their backers are, or whether or not it smells good. |
| 21:30.55 | bucky | vontrapp, you will be held to a high standard |
| 21:31.35 | vontrapp | bucky: _I_ don't stear clear of politics, the church as an organization does |
| 21:31.56 | bucky | the obstructionist policies have kept the Indian people in poverty here and it is getting worse |
| 21:32.43 | vontrapp | i just wish it were easier to be knowledgable on issues and to be involved |
| 21:33.14 | bucky | meanwhile Cam Lewis owns two corporate jets and a million dollar house in happy valley |
| 21:33.24 | levi-laptop | The church officially steers clear of politics. Its members do not, as is their right, and thus they have always been a severe annoyance to their non-believing neighbors. |
| 21:33.31 | vontrapp | and unfortunately reading newspapers and watching TV does nothing to make one so |
| 21:33.37 | vontrapp | or very litle |
| 21:34.18 | bucky | and i figure there's about $25 million unaccounted for |
| 21:34.48 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: That's the difference: _I_ openly state my bias, while the trib & media outlets often do not. When bias is not stated, you can follow the money if you're interested in the real purpose of existence of a given outlet. |
| 21:35.39 | bucky | Shurtleff does a guest apperance on the Dr Phil Show |
| 21:36.03 | lars-ut | I'm saying beware - and bother who the backers of a media outlet are - that's who/what you're supporting. |
| 21:36.20 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: I agree that following the money will give you an idea of what sort of bias to expect. So can reading what they print. |
| 21:36.34 | lars-ut | true |
| 21:37.26 | bucky | Dixie Leavitt made all his money screwing indians out of oil and gas leases... then he built Mountain Fuel which became Questar |
| 21:37.27 | emcnabb | anyone here use d-spam? if so, about how much RAM does it use? |
| 21:37.50 | emcnabb | SA uses way too much, so I'm looking for something that's leaner |
| 21:40.14 | lars-ut | ~lart bucky |
| 21:41.12 | bucky | oh and one more thing... I want all religious non profit orgs to be taxed to fund Social Security |
| 21:41.48 | vontrapp | ~lart bucky |
| 21:42.43 | bucky | I bet i can get more support for taxing non profits like the LDS church than opposition |
| 21:43.18 | vontrapp | *sigh* |
| 21:45.23 | Hhhhh | bucky: if I understand, the LDS Church is behind all problems in Utah? |
| 21:45.49 | bucky | just corrupt mormons... like the ones that run San Juan County |
| 21:46.14 | Hhhhh | that's such a flaming, over-generalizing argument |
| 21:46.22 | bucky | does embezelment or taking bribes ever come up in your priesthood meeting? |
| 21:46.22 | vontrapp | has nothing to do with the church, they could just as well be corrupt catholics |
| 21:46.29 | Hhhhh | nope, it doesn't |
| 21:46.56 | bucky | your church is morally bankrupt |
| 21:47.22 | Hhhhh | taking bribes and embelzment comes up at leadership meetings, not mere Sunday priesthood meetings |
| 21:47.40 | Hhhhh | we meet during the week to see how to put more burdens on non-Mormon Utahns |
| 21:47.48 | Hhhhh | we don't use the Sabbath for that |
| 21:47.50 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 21:47.55 | bucky | it's based on a lie... the indians did not come here from israel http://www.lhvm.org/dna_view.htm |
| 21:48.09 | bucky | the BOM was contrived |
| 21:48.15 | Jayce^ | bucky, get over it.. people don't want to hear that in here |
| 21:48.18 | bucky | and DNA evidence proves it |
| 21:48.20 | Hhhhh | yea, actually |
| 21:48.24 | Hhhhh | you're right |
| 21:48.30 | Hhhhh | you just converted me |
| 21:48.57 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 21:49.26 | Hhhhh | and please, I beg you, tell me what does the LDS Church has to do with that |
| 21:49.45 | vontrapp | would you rather the church tell everyone how to vote? |
| 21:50.00 | bucky | Mormon Cal Black sold the contract to the mob in the first place |
| 21:50.07 | Hhhhh | vontrapp: are you suggesting the Church tells people how to vote? |
| 21:50.33 | Hhhhh | oh, let me see your reasoning bucky, a mormon did that and therefore it's the whole LDS Church's fault |
| 21:50.56 | tene | I bet he was white, too. |
| 21:50.57 | Jayce^ | bucky, and you can say the same thing about baptists in the SW, methodists in the NE, etc... your associating things in your own mind |
| 21:51.00 | vontrapp | i'm suggesting that if the church is guilty of anything politically oriented, it is by not telling people who the good candidates are |
| 21:51.02 | tene | That makes it the fault of all caucasians. |
| 21:51.03 | Jayce^ | tene++ |
| 21:51.16 | tene | Ooo, what color was his hair? |
| 21:51.26 | bucky | you claim to be God's only authority on earth... i would think that means something |
| 21:51.41 | dataw0lf|w | take note that I'm sitting out on this one. |
| 21:51.42 | Hhhhh | vontrapp: the Church doesn't/hasn't/wouldn't/shouldn't/won't tell you what candidates to vote for |
| 21:51.44 | Jayce^ | bucky, it does to us ... |
| 21:51.46 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, :) |
| 21:51.47 | bucky | *only* |
| 21:51.52 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: ;) |
| 21:51.52 | vontrapp | Hhhhh: exactly |
| 21:51.56 | vontrapp | and it shouldn't |
| 21:51.59 | bucky | sure that means you can get away with crime |
| 21:52.03 | Hhhhh | true, and that's why it doesn't |
| 21:52.19 | Hhhhh | I don't remember Pdt. Hinckley endorsing anyone last LDS General conference |
| 21:52.20 | dataw0lf|w | there are good Mormons. There are bad Mormons. Just like every other religion, group, etc, etc. |
| 21:52.29 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 21:52.32 | dataw0lf|w | the question is... who really cares? |
| 21:52.35 | vontrapp | so the church is only guilty of not doing something it shouldn't do |
| 21:52.37 | levi-laptop | bucky: Members of the LDS church commit crimes. Nonmembers of the LDS church also commit crimes. What does this tell you about the causation relationship of membership in the LDS church and committing of crimes? |
| 21:52.46 | bucky | Mormon Cal Black sold the contract to the mob in the first place |
| 21:52.50 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 21:52.55 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, wow, I gotta say, you gave an objective statement on the truthfulnes of humanity in religion, :) |
| 21:53.07 | Hhhhh | vontrapp: exactly. Ever heard of the phrase "not guilty until proven otherwise"? |
| 21:53.17 | Hhhhh | it's called habeas corpus |
| 21:53.37 | bucky | another Totally Awsome Lawyer |
| 21:53.42 | Jayce^ | so how is there not a 'free job market' as compared to anywhere else in the country? |
| 21:53.47 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: I don't really care what anyone believes in. I just believe people should be educated about their religion. |
| 21:53.54 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf|w, agreed |
| 21:53.56 | Hhhhh | bucky: and please, I beg you for the second time, how is that the LDS Church's fault? |
| 21:54.00 | bucky | Aramark runs all the Marinas on Lake Powell |
| 21:54.09 | bucky | a monopoly |
| 21:54.18 | vontrapp | ... |
| 21:54.52 | Hhhhh | bucky: third time, how's that the LDS Church's fault? |
| 21:55.00 | *** join/#utah herlo (~herlo@12.47.136.2) |
| 21:55.01 | bucky | Mormon Cal Black sold the contract to the mob in the first place |
| 21:55.06 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 21:55.09 | Jayce^ | bucky, 'the mob'? hah |
| 21:55.26 | Hhhhh | please, everybody, I just realized bucky is a bot |
| 21:55.34 | Hhhhh | he doesn't answer questions when asked |
| 21:55.42 | vontrapp | Politician Cal Black sold the contract to the mob in the first place |
| 21:55.45 | bucky | http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/starke/aramarkmob.html |
| 21:55.49 | levi-laptop | bucky: Claiming that LDS theological-based morality ought to hold more sway over human hearts than non-theological morality is making the claim that religious morality is somehow more efficacious than atheistic morality. People are still people, whether their morals are religiously-influenced or built from some other source. |
| 21:55.50 | Hhhhh | vontrapp: thanks |
| 21:55.50 | vontrapp | hey everyone! politicians are bad! |
| 21:56.15 | Jayce^ | hey goozbach you up for playing saturday? |
| 21:56.39 | bucky | levi-laptop, then you approve of this? |
| 21:56.47 | levi-laptop | bucky: Approve of what? |
| 21:56.50 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: it's probably Not A Good Idea (tm) to support any arguments you make with an angelfire site. |
| 21:56.57 | levi-laptop | I don't approve of anyone doing immoral things. |
| 21:57.03 | goozbach | Jayce^: what time? |
| 21:57.07 | bucky | politicians receiving bribes to do business here? |
| 21:57.07 | goozbach | morning? |
| 21:57.14 | Hhhhh | even further, what bucky is doing is what is called "hasty generalization", simply because some members of a group did something immoral then the action is generalized to the whole group. It is just the same concept as racism or discrimination |
| 21:57.47 | vontrapp | bucky: what he was saying is just because he is mormon and has been tought certain principles doesn't mean that those principles held any sway over his heart |
| 21:57.47 | goozbach | Jayce^: you not going to the garrison BBQ saturday? |
| 21:57.48 | Jayce^ | goozbach, morning on |
| 21:57.57 | bucky | Hhhhh, you're just as guilty of it if you don't do something about it... oh moral one |
| 21:57.57 | Hhhhh | so bucky: most crimes in Utah are commited by Hispanics. I am Hispanic, am I a criminal too? |
| 21:57.58 | Jayce^ | hadn't seen it, but probably not |
| 21:58.03 | Hhhhh | so bucky: most crimes in Utah are commited by Hispanics. I am Hispanic, am I a criminal too? |
| 21:58.09 | goozbach | 13:00 weber county |
| 21:58.18 | bucky | Hhhhh, are you of Jewish descent? |
| 21:58.22 | Jayce^ | definately not then |
| 21:58.33 | Hhhhh | bucky: no answer to my question? |
| 21:58.37 | bucky | Hhhhh, , that's what the BOM says |
| 21:58.56 | bucky | unless you're a high Spainiard |
| 21:59.01 | Hhhhh | I guess no answer to my question then |
| 21:59.04 | bucky | and we live in Mexico anyway |
| 21:59.18 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 21:59.34 | herlo | ban bucky! |
| 21:59.40 | goozbach | second |
| 21:59.48 | herlo | motion so moved |
| 21:59.50 | Hhhhh | Mormon Cal Black sold the contract to the mob in the first place |
| 21:59.51 | Hhhhh | Mormon Cal Black sold the contract to the mob in the first place |
| 21:59.57 | dataw0lf|w | why ban bucky? |
| 22:00.01 | herlo | he's a bot |
| 22:00.02 | levi-laptop | Don't ban bucky. |
| 22:00.06 | Hhhhh | yea, he's a bot |
| 22:00.06 | herlo | repeating |
| 22:00.08 | vontrapp | bucky: so _do_ something about it and stop waiting for an orginization that has no right to do anything about it to go out of it's place |
| 22:00.21 | dataw0lf|w | Hhhhh is repeating himself as well. |
| 22:00.31 | herlo | he is? |
| 22:00.39 | Hhhhh | the funny part is that he expects the LDS Church to step in and fix the problem with his Lake Powel that was sold tto the mob in the first place |
| 22:00.47 | bucky | vontrapp, i've called Orrin Hatch's office and talked to JJ Brown |
| 22:00.57 | herlo | bucky's repeating in a cycle, is Hhhhh? |
| 22:00.58 | Hhhhh | ever heard of separation between state and church? |
| 22:01.05 | vontrapp | so don't vote for them next time around |
| 22:01.07 | Hhhhh | no, mine is a more complicating pattern |
| 22:01.10 | Newsome | ~lart Hatch |
| 22:01.17 | bucky | it's not the first time the church has gone to the mob for money |
| 22:01.19 | goozbach | how appropiate |
| 22:01.27 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: pfft. |
| 22:01.30 | bucky | look at the Nevada Gaming Commission |
| 22:01.33 | Hhhhh | bucky: please show evidence |
| 22:01.40 | dataw0lf|w | You should go to Chicago and hang out with some of the Catholics there. |
| 22:01.54 | Jayce^ | bucky, and look how the church told it's members to vote against legalization of gambling :) |
| 22:02.13 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 22:02.31 | bucky | and out of the school lunch program |
| 22:02.44 | dataw0lf|w | found a horse's head in your kid's lunch? |
| 22:02.45 | goozbach | you know... the majority of utahns are controled from a ground based mind-laser located in the west desert placed there by extra-terrestrials |
| 22:02.45 | Hhhhh | yea, we noticed you're in a school lunch program |
| 22:02.50 | Jayce^ | bucky, you'll have to talk to federal levels about school lunches... :) |
| 22:02.58 | Jayce^ | that has little to do with the state |
| 22:03.15 | goozbach | it's those damn robot aliens |
| 22:03.22 | levi-laptop | goozbach: Not me! I have a tin-foil beanie. |
| 22:03.28 | Jayce^ | goozbach, them and their sith overlords |
| 22:03.36 | dataw0lf|w | I thought it was klingons? |
| 22:03.38 | Hhhhh | don't cuss at the robot, don't you see they're the Book of Mormon angels? |
| 22:03.44 | Hhhhh | hahaha |
| 22:03.58 | *** join/#utah tene (~tene@slacker.developer.poipu) |
| 22:04.00 | levi-laptop | goozbach: I'm lining the inside of my house with foil, too, so I won't have to wear it while I sleep. |
| 22:04.18 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: lol |
| 22:04.18 | goozbach | I got foil-laden paint |
| 22:04.20 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:04.24 | goozbach | it's easier |
| 22:04.40 | goozbach | plus I'm running Mind-Guard(tm) on my firewall |
| 22:04.50 | Jayce^ | lead-paint, then you don't have to worry about nukes either |
| 22:04.51 | levi-laptop | The upshot is that I get less microwave interference from my neighbors, so my wifi doesn't drop out anymore! |
| 22:04.55 | goozbach | and it's plugged into my power-grid |
| 22:04.56 | Jayce^ | just don't lick the walls |
| 22:06.36 | *** join/#utah herlo___ (~herlo@12.47.136.2) |
| 22:06.49 | lars-ut | lake powell? |
| 22:07.03 | herlo___ | what's the deal with lake powell? |
| 22:07.22 | lars-ut | what about that school lunch program? |
| 22:08.06 | levi-laptop | Aramark is the only company authorized to do business within a certain distance of Lake Powell, IIRC. |
| 22:08.18 | levi-laptop | And they also do school lunches. |
| 22:08.21 | herlo___ | so |
| 22:08.27 | levi-laptop | And they allegedly have connections with the mob. |
| 22:08.32 | herlo___ | that seems pretty off-topic |
| 22:09.11 | bucky | http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/starke/aramarkmob.html |
| 22:09.53 | lars-ut | bucky, wher ya' from? |
| 22:10.05 | bucky | san juan county |
| 22:10.29 | bucky | lars-ut, want my geneaology chart? |
| 22:10.39 | lars-ut | I'm from souther Illinois |
| 22:11.24 | lars-ut | nevemind |
| 22:11.47 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: everyone's seen a straight line before. |
| 22:11.50 | dataw0lf|w | oooh. Burn. |
| 22:12.04 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 22:12.10 | bucky | dataw0lf|w, are you jewish? |
| 22:12.25 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: Nope. Italian/Irish. |
| 22:12.36 | vontrapp | what's this obsession with jews? |
| 22:12.36 | bucky | * vontrapp kicks himself for not testing a boundary case |
| 22:12.40 | dataw0lf|w | meaning I can outdrink you. |
| 22:12.46 | levi-laptop | dataw0lf|w: You must have mob connections too! |
| 22:12.51 | lars-ut | ACtually I was just testing buck to see if he'd respond to direct inquiries. |
| 22:13.00 | bucky | they put this in here... i get this from mormons a lot.. yes i belong in utah |
| 22:13.10 | dataw0lf|w | levi-laptop: I'm from Chicago too. I guess I'm the arch criminal mastermind behind the Lake Powell conspiracy. |
| 22:13.15 | dataw0lf|w | BUT I'm not Mormon! |
| 22:13.21 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: so direct your hate toward me. |
| 22:13.22 | dataw0lf|w | kthnx. |
| 22:13.45 | bucky | i just want the mob off lake powell and a free job market here |
| 22:14.02 | Jayce^ | is there an echo here? |
| 22:14.08 | lars-ut | bucky: is that string a macro? |
| 22:14.10 | herlo___ | kinda |
| 22:14.10 | Hhhhh | Mormon Cal Black yada-yada-yada... |
| 22:14.21 | bucky | i'm on the phone... of course there are twenty utah agencies that don't do anything |
| 22:14.23 | herlo___ | off topic |
| 22:14.31 | Hhhhh | bucky has a fetish for Jewish people |
| 22:14.34 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: welcome to the US. |
| 22:14.44 | Jayce^ | bucky, you're lucky you're in a podunk state like utah... it's nothing here |
| 22:14.50 | dataw0lf|w | it isn't a Utah thing, I assure you. |
| 22:14.51 | bucky | i thought it was a fair question.. dataw0lf|w asked me first |
| 22:15.19 | Jayce^ | herlo___, very... |
| 22:15.27 | lars-ut | bucky: I'm impressed by your AI - who wrote you? |
| 22:15.41 | herlo___ | lars-ut, nice q.... |
| 22:15.42 | Hhhhh | just everybody remember, only those who pay tithing to the LDS Church can go waterskiing in Lake Powell |
| 22:15.55 | bucky | i can think for myself.... that's AI ? |
| 22:15.58 | Hhhhh | because Mormon Cal Black yada-yada-yada... |
| 22:16.01 | lars-ut | whoah. |
| 22:16.09 | lars-ut | adaptive. |
| 22:16.14 | herlo___ | LOL |
| 22:16.21 | dataw0lf|w | bucky: what's 2 x 2 (+3) squared? |
| 22:16.32 | Hhhhh | .bucky 2+2 |
| 22:17.28 | lars-ut | #no, .bucky 2+2=10 |
| 22:17.32 | vontrapp | ~who's your daddy |
| 22:17.33 | ibot | YOU are, Mr Sexy Pants! |
| 22:17.37 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 22:17.45 | bucky | !moo |
| 22:17.49 | Hhhhh | ~lart vontrapp |
| 22:17.50 | bucky | ~moo |
| 22:17.51 | ibot | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ |
| 22:18.30 | lars-ut | apt-get install bucky-bot |
| 22:18.55 | lars-ut | crap, I need to update sources.list |
| 22:21.17 | lars-ut | don't worry bucky. Syaing anything anti-lds ensures you won't be banned. Even if you're a bot. |
| 22:22.20 | bucky | ~moo |
| 22:22.21 | ibot | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ |
| 22:22.43 | herlo | damn! that's annoying |
| 22:23.05 | lars-ut | ~weather kpvu |
| 22:23.12 | Hhhhh | yea, bucky, we haven't installed moroni-bot 0.9.5 in this room |
| 22:23.14 | mrpull | can anyone recommend a Python book? |
| 22:23.15 | herlo | much better |
| 22:23.27 | lars-ut | thank you |
| 22:23.30 | bucky | ~fuck Hhhhh |
| 22:23.34 | Hhhhh | so feel free to bash LDS members |
| 22:24.02 | Jayce^ | ok, swearing will get you kicked |
| 22:24.02 | levi-laptop | mrpull: I could recommend a Common Lisp book. ;) |
| 22:24.18 | Jayce^ | just FYI |
| 22:24.30 | mrpull | (even a language war would be better than the current topic...) |
| 22:24.50 | levi-laptop | mrpull: Dive Into Python is available online, though. I've glanced at it, and heard it's good, but you could probably judge for yourself if it's what you need. |
| 22:24.58 | lars-ut | ~emulate gir |
| 22:24.59 | ibot | my walnuts! |
| 22:25.00 | mrpull | anyhow, I read the first several chapters of "Dive Into Python" and i'm not impressed |
| 22:25.11 | lars-ut | ~emulate Ms Bitters |
| 22:25.13 | ibot | The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions. That's why the skool has instituted this test. |
| 22:25.29 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 22:25.51 | levi-laptop | mrpull: The book I have is an old edition of Learning Python. It was okay, but much more a tutorial than a reference. |
| 22:26.07 | levi-laptop | mrpull: What style of book are you looking for? |
| 22:26.13 | mrpull | yeah. i ruled out learning python. i'm considering Programming Python |
| 22:26.44 | mrpull | i know the concepts of high level languages... so i don't need a chapter explaining for loops |
| 22:26.46 | vontrapp | ~emulate gir ~= /^/||Why is his head so big? Whhy is his head so BIG?!/ |
| 22:26.47 | ibot | vontrapp: what are you talking about? |
| 22:27.03 | lars-ut | lol |
| 22:27.05 | vontrapp | ~emulate gir ~= /^/\|\|Why is his head so big? Whhy is his head so BIG?!/ |
| 22:27.06 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 22:27.11 | Hhhhh | ~emulate gir |
| 22:27.12 | ibot | aww, my bees... |
| 22:27.16 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 22:28.13 | vontrapp | haha, that sounds funny "I ruled out learning python. I'm considering programming python." |
| 22:28.24 | mrpull | heh. true. |
| 22:28.26 | levi-laptop | mrpull: Practical Common Lisp would be right up your alley, then, if you wanted to learn Common Lisp. It's available online, too, at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ ;) |
| 22:29.00 | mrpull | i like how readable python is :) from what I know of lisp, the (((()))(()()))())) rule that out |
| 22:29.26 | levi-laptop | Lisp is read in the same fashion as Python - by indentation. |
| 22:29.49 | herlo | lisp is not, its parentheses |
| 22:30.05 | levi-laptop | The computer reads the parentheses, humans read the indentation. |
| 22:30.06 | herlo | nerd! |
| 22:30.11 | vontrapp | mrpull: your problem is the parens aren't balanced |
| 22:30.16 | *** join/#utah tene_ (~tene@c-67-182-199-40.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:30.18 | herlo | lol |
| 22:30.52 | mrpull | or... perhaps I should get a Ruby book before it is too late? |
| 22:31.02 | levi-laptop | Your editor should take care of the parentheses and the indentation for you, anyway. |
| 22:31.21 | levi-laptop | Why would it become too late to get a Ruby book? |
| 22:32.09 | mrpull | not literally too late... :) there is room in my head for another scripting language |
| 22:33.10 | levi-laptop | Learn Lisp, then. It's not a scripting language. |
| 22:33.44 | levi-laptop | But if you're going to do a scripting language, and you're more concerned with the language itself than what sort of job you might be able to get with it, I'd vote for Ruby. |
| 22:34.01 | lars-ut | levi-laptop: you should beware your editor's motives & backers before you let it manage your parens. |
| 22:34.21 | vontrapp | lol |
| 22:34.30 | levi-laptop | lars-ut: Luckily, I have the source code to my editor. :) |
| 22:34.44 | lars-ut | touché! |
| 22:35.01 | lars-ut | Is that how u spell it? |
| 22:35.28 | levi-laptop | Ruby is like Smalltalk with C-ish syntax, and Smalltalk is one of the great 'pure paradigm' languages. |
| 22:36.02 | levi-laptop | Yup, except I'm not sure if the accented e is the right one. Might be, but it might not. |
| 22:36.39 | lars-ut | good 'ol alt+0233 - as in résumé |
| 22:36.45 | mrpull | i see ruby as a nice mishmash of perl's flexibility and python's readability |
| 22:37.01 | vontrapp | résumé? |
| 22:37.03 | mrpull | i grow tired of Perl's shortcuts |
| 22:37.15 | levi-laptop | Take a look at Smalltalk, then. |
| 22:37.58 | levi-laptop | Ruby is much more of a scripting language than Smalltalk, though. |
| 22:38.27 | levi-laptop | It's currently somewhat less optimized, and is better at gluing things together. |
| 22:38.48 | levi-laptop | The syntax is rather different, though. |
| 22:41.02 | levi-laptop | I need to get to class. I won't trouble you further with talk of Lisp and Smalltalk. ;) |
| 22:41.47 | mrpull | levi-laptop: later! have fun with Java class |
| 22:43.18 | *** join/#utah levi-laptop (~levi@208.177.141.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:44.34 | *** part/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:08.22 | tensai | anybody know how to configure a vlan on a cisco catalyst? |
| 23:09.23 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:09.23 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.48 | *** topic/#utah by TimRiker -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! |
| 23:16.19 | Bradipo | tensai: You just want to add a separate vlan? |
| 23:16.26 | Bradipo | There is one default vlan enabled by default. |
| 23:20.01 | tensai | Bradipo: yeah. I created a second vlan but was stuck on how to add interfaces to it. finally found the right info. |
| 23:20.32 | Bradipo | Ok, cool. |
| 23:20.32 | Bradipo | Do you know how to delete a vlan? :-) |
| 23:20.50 | tensai | you know, that's a really good question. I can at least put these interfaces back into vlan 1. |
| 23:20.58 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 23:21.09 | Bradipo | You can just move them from one vlan to the next. |
| 23:21.30 | Bradipo | I haven't ever directly deleted a vlan from a catalyst (just deleted it from the trunk). |
| 23:21.50 | Bradipo | So, now I'm wondering how. |
| 23:22.15 | tensai | vlan database |
| 23:22.18 | tensai | no vlan <ID> |
| 23:22.23 | tensai | would be my guess |
| 23:22.44 | Bradipo | Hmm, maybe this catalyst is different from yours... |
| 23:22.46 | tensai | are you running COS or IOS? |
| 23:22.48 | Bradipo | This is a 2948G. |
| 23:22.51 | Bradipo | CatOS. |
| 23:23.10 | Bradipo | I believe. |
| 23:23.15 | tensai | yeah, those are different. all the cisco docs assume COS. I have no idea how I got IOS instead. |
| 23:23.19 | tensai | 2900XL |
| 23:23.24 | Bradipo | You probably want IOS. |
| 23:24.05 | tensai | why did they create another OS if IOS works? |
| 23:24.28 | Bradipo | Not sure to be honest. |
| 23:24.42 | Bradipo | Different department maybe... |
| 23:25.02 | tensai | that was the sticking point. I had to google for IOS specific instructions to create a vlan. |
| 23:26.44 | Bradipo | So you didn't do: set vlan 2 ... ? |
| 23:27.28 | tensai | nope |
| 23:27.31 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 23:28.04 | tensai | # vlan database |
| 23:28.23 | tensai | (vlan) # vlan 2 name Foo |
| 23:28.29 | tensai | (vlan) # apply |
| 23:28.34 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 23:29.08 | Bradipo | Which is even deprecating... |
| 23:29.37 | Bradipo | But maybe not on your model. |
| 23:29.47 | tensai | I don't see mention of my vlan in my config so it must keep the database somewhere else |
| 23:30.09 | Bradipo | Is this an older switch? |
| 23:30.34 | tensai | probably. I didn't buy it. |
| 23:30.36 | tensai | IOS (tm) C2900xl Software (C2900xl-C3H2S-M), Version 12.0(5)WC5, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) |
| 23:30.37 | tensai | Copyright (c) 1986-2002 by cisco Systems, Inc. |
| 23:30.37 | tensai | Compiled Tue 28-May-02 11:11 by devgoyal |
| 23:31.02 | tensai | cisco WS-C2924-XL (PowerPC403GA) processor (revision 0x11) with 8192K/1024K bytes of memory. |
| 23:32.16 | Bradipo | Sometimes finding manuals on Cisco's site is a bit painful. |
| 23:34.45 | tensai | finding software is even harder |
| 23:36.19 | Bradipo | clear vlan 4 |
| 23:36.23 | Bradipo | There... I found it. |
| 23:37.26 | Bradipo | http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps679/products_configuration_guide_book09186a008007eee4.html |
| 23:37.31 | Bradipo | This probably won't apply to yours though. |
| 23:37.41 | Bradipo | This one is older than yours I believe. |
| 23:39.00 | tensai | yeah, clear vlan doesn't work. oh well. I wouldn't be surprised if I've got the only two catalysts in the company. most of what we have are foundry or HP |
| 23:40.03 | tensai | no vlan does the trick for me |
| 23:40.08 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 23:40.17 | Bradipo | clear vlan is for my catalyst. |
| 23:40.29 | Bradipo | I first tried: no set vlan 4 :-) |
| 23:40.44 | tensai | heh. good guess though |
| 23:40.50 | Bradipo | Well, for this catalyst, yes. |
| 23:40.56 | Bradipo | Normally I would just do no vlan. |
| 23:41.27 | tensai | any idea how to set up a monitoring port, ie. spy on all the other ports? Is that what rmon is for? |
| 23:42.18 | tensai | hmm, no rmon doesn't look right |
| 23:45.01 | Bradipo | No. |
| 23:48.07 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@dataw0lf.org) |