| 00:06.53 | tene | grr... |
| 00:07.05 | tene | looks like I'm going to have to install cvs stuff to get my pocketpc working with linux |
| 00:07.08 | goozbach | bored... |
| 00:07.22 | goozbach | bored outta my gourd |
| 00:09.36 | goozbach | I know... |
| 00:10.16 | xbmodder | (14:53:18) mharte@mac.com: cus you smell nice |
| 00:11.00 | goozbach | :) |
| 00:11.17 | goozbach | that'll help you with the smelling nice :) |
| 00:16.55 | xbmodder | hello, anyone here know how to speed up apache/php |
| 00:17.38 | tene | add ram and proc power |
| 00:30.24 | xbmodder | thats not very helpful |
| 00:30.31 | tene | yes it is |
| 00:30.38 | tene | adding ram and adding proc helps a lot. |
| 00:48.50 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:03.32 | Maquis | ummm... |
| 02:03.59 | Maquis | is there a way to switch knoppix from german to english? or do i have to download a different iso and burn it? |
| 02:05.22 | spr | it's a boot option. should default to english |
| 02:06.09 | *** join/#utah levi-treo (~upirc@001-772-957.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 02:06.42 | levi-treo | Yo. |
| 02:07.04 | emcnabb | Yo. |
| 02:07.34 | levi-treo | Wassup? |
| 02:09.55 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Jesse (~Uncle_Jes@66.173.148.4) |
| 02:11.14 | Newsome | anyone want an old console organ and speaker? |
| 02:11.43 | levi-treo | Hey, Uncle_Jesse |
| 02:12.12 | levi-treo | Sorry, no room for an organ. |
| 02:26.34 | levi-treo | Man, it's dead here. |
| 02:29.30 | tene | Maquis: something like lang=en in the boot options. |
| 02:32.30 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 02:48.55 | tene | gah, I give. I can't find anything about this problem anywhere, other than a suggestion on a mailing list about "You might need to install devel packages for your distro." |
| 02:49.13 | tene | "checking size of void *... configure: error: cannot compute sizeof (void *), 77" |
| 02:51.47 | tene | hmm |
| 02:51.48 | tene | that's odd |
| 02:51.58 | tene | as soon as I finally break down and ask, it mysteriously vanishes. |
| 02:55.46 | tene | ouch... this makefile has -Werror, and then something gives a warn about %c only giving two digits in some locales. |
| 03:07.06 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (~amcnabb@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:08.24 | tensai | you guys ever seen a hotdog spark in the microwave |
| 03:08.30 | tensai | ? |
| 03:08.41 | amcnabb | Only if it's in tin foil. |
| 03:08.57 | tensai | nope, just hotdog and plastic plate |
| 03:09.57 | tene | no, no I haven't. |
| 03:10.22 | tensai | started sparking after 15 seconds or so. it wasn't even that hot. |
| 03:10.39 | amcnabb | Really cheap meat? |
| 03:10.43 | tensai | I sliced it into about 10 bits |
| 03:10.55 | tensai | same as always. hold on, I'll go see what brand. |
| 03:11.53 | tensai | Bar-S. cheapest dogs available of course. I doubt they're loaded with iron though |
| 03:11.59 | tensai | maybe I'll call the company and ask |
| 03:18.57 | fozz | Any mysql'ers here? |
| 03:19.48 | tensai | question sent. I hope they write back. |
| 03:20.32 | tensai | fozz: I use it now and again, when I can't avoid it |
| 03:25.12 | fozz | A guy created a database via webmin. |
| 03:25.19 | fozz | And he was even able to do some stuff with it. |
| 03:25.35 | fozz | But now every time I try to access it (as root) I get Access denied for user: '@localhost' (Using password: NO)' |
| 03:26.18 | tensai | can you still access it via webmin? |
| 03:26.37 | tensai | tried mysql -u root ? |
| 03:26.57 | fozz | Tried. Nada. |
| 03:27.14 | tensai | '@localhost' looks really strange |
| 03:27.50 | tene | don't you mean "every time he tries to"? |
| 03:28.01 | tene | because of course it's not you. |
| 03:28.24 | fozz | heh. |
| 03:28.34 | fozz | Actually, it's not me. If you know me, you know I stay away from MySQL. :) |
| 03:28.41 | fozz | But I'm helping this guy out. |
| 03:28.48 | fozz | Because I accidentally nuked his databases... |
| 03:28.50 | tene | I'm just giving you a hard time. |
| 03:28.54 | fozz | but he didn't have any backups. |
| 03:29.01 | fozz | (see thread on plug) |
| 03:29.04 | fozz | Sure. |
| 03:29.07 | mheath | @localhost does look fishy, never seen that before |
| 03:29.15 | fozz | So, yeah, when I go into webmin, it says DBI connect failed : Access denied for user: '@localhost' to database 'mysql' |
| 03:29.15 | mheath | But as for the Using password: NO thing... |
| 03:29.20 | mheath | Add -p |
| 03:29.25 | mheath | and it will prompt you for a password |
| 03:29.30 | mheath | Otherwise it defaults to NO |
| 03:29.31 | fozz | The root password? |
| 03:29.34 | mheath | Yes |
| 03:29.36 | mheath | mysql -u root -p |
| 03:29.46 | fozz | ERROR 1045: Access denied for user: 'root@localhost' (Using password: YES) |
| 03:29.51 | tensai | well, the mysql root password. not the system root |
| 03:30.01 | fozz | I don't know what that is. This is fresh install. |
| 03:30.23 | mheath | Fresh install using what? |
| 03:30.27 | fozz | FC3 RPM |
| 03:30.31 | mheath | Ugh |
| 03:30.33 | mheath | Can't help you there |
| 03:30.33 | tensai | here's instructions on how to reset the mysql root password |
| 03:30.35 | tensai | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/resetting-permissions.html |
| 03:30.41 | fozz | thanks. |
| 03:31.27 | tensai | can't say I understand why it went bonkers though. I don't have a complete understanding of mysql permissions. |
| 03:31.35 | tensai | pg_hba.conf is 100x easier |
| 03:31.38 | fozz | :-D |
| 03:32.21 | mheath | MySQL permissions are simple. |
| 03:32.39 | mheath | User-based permissions |
| 03:32.43 | fozz | Huh. it says to run 'mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables &' |
| 03:32.49 | fozz | But I don't have mysql_safe in my path. |
| 03:33.00 | tensai | you forgot the d |
| 03:33.06 | fozz | It is /usr/bin/safe_mysqld? |
| 03:33.07 | tensai | mysqld_safe |
| 03:33.09 | tensai | -----^ |
| 03:33.20 | mheath | Maybe. |
| 03:33.32 | fozz | That did something. :) |
| 03:33.33 | tensai | ah, that could be. 3.x vs 4.x there are differences |
| 03:33.50 | mheath | saf_mysqld adds some extra stuff, so its safe to spawn it as root from a terminal |
| 03:33.57 | mheath | er |
| 03:33.59 | mheath | mysqld_safe |
| 03:34.56 | fozz | You forgot an e |
| 03:34.58 | fozz | ----^ |
| 03:35.01 | fozz | heh heh. |
| 03:35.07 | mheath | As I was saying, though, MySQL's permissions are simple... |
| 03:35.26 | mheath | Just user based permissions. You just grant power to do various things to a database/table to a particular user |
| 03:36.18 | tensai | on the surface I would agree with you. but I've got a box I inherited that I can't make heads or tails out of. strange combinations of host, user, and db permissions. |
| 03:36.39 | mheath | Some people do that. |
| 03:36.45 | mheath | But situations like that are rapidly improving |
| 03:37.08 | mheath | People are moving to single, shared databases that house permissions information for all their services. |
| 03:37.58 | fozz | SHeeeash! |
| 03:38.05 | fozz | I reset the root password and it still won't let me in! |
| 03:38.06 | tensai | I'm pretty sure whoever set it up didn't really have much idea what he was doing. Trying to figure it out was a nightmare. |
| 03:38.09 | fozz | I've done it twice now! |
| 03:38.25 | mheath | fozz: just get the MySQL binary from their website |
| 03:39.05 | fozz | I was going to suggest that, but this guy says he already loaded some stuff into this database before everything went kaplooey. |
| 03:39.34 | mheath | fozz: so? |
| 03:39.42 | mheath | Start up Mysql without the grant information |
| 03:39.45 | mheath | and back everything up |
| 03:39.47 | tensai | start it with --skip-grant-tables, mysqldump it, the reload when you've got it right |
| 03:39.50 | fozz | How do I do that? :) |
| 03:40.02 | fozz | oh okay. |
| 03:40.35 | fozz | mysqldump --all? |
| 03:42.00 | mheath | Hmmm |
| 03:42.09 | mheath | Dunno. You might get your grant information if you do that |
| 03:42.24 | mheath | But if you just flushed that, sure |
| 03:43.05 | tensai | I would dump the databases separately. You probably don't want to restore 'mysql'. |
| 03:43.14 | tensai | mysqldump <dbname> >dbname.sql |
| 03:45.07 | fozz | mysqldump: Got error: 1044: Access denied for user: '@localhost' to database 'twistedtoad' when selecting the database |
| 03:45.12 | fozz | Can you believe this? |
| 03:46.14 | fozz | That's after starting with safe and --skip-grant-tables |
| 03:47.54 | tensai | stop the database and copy the data files. should be in /var/lib/mysql/twistedtoad |
| 03:57.58 | fozz | Alright people. |
| 03:58.08 | fozz | I've upgraded to 4.1 RPMs. |
| 03:58.19 | fozz | I'm still having problems. I'm guessing I need to nuke the /var/lib/mysql directories. |
| 04:14.39 | fozz | Oh good heck. |
| 04:14.51 | fozz | So now I need a new PHP to go along with this version of MySQL?! |
| 04:14.53 | fozz | GAH! |
| 04:15.10 | mheath | Yeah |
| 04:15.18 | mheath | PHP is linked against a specific MySQL client library |
| 04:15.20 | fozz | In the Perl world... all I need is DBD::mysql :) |
| 04:15.30 | fozz | No need to recompile Perl. |
| 04:17.18 | fozz | I wonder if I can just rebuild FC3's RPM from source. |
| 04:21.54 | tensai | oh crap! I'm missing Masterpiece Theatre |
| 04:22.34 | fozz | heh. |
| 04:25.22 | mheath | RPM is great, but it seems like all RPM based distros are organized horribly |
| 04:26.55 | fozz | I find that RH-based distros are converging upon the LSB very nicely. |
| 04:27.13 | fozz | I can't stand the way SUSE spreads things around in odd places. |
| 04:28.55 | fozz | Man. PHP takes FOREVER to compile. |
| 04:29.07 | fozz | I haven't compiled it since the 2.x days. |
| 04:29.20 | fozz | And this is a dual P4 something or another. |
| 04:30.24 | fozz | Oooh. dual Xeon 2.4Ghz |
| 04:37.52 | Maquis | ping? |
| 04:38.04 | LeviHome | Pong. |
| 04:38.10 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 04:38.38 | LeviHome | Er, I was writing scheme code until my Linux box locked up hard. |
| 04:38.55 | Maquis | i can't ping google.com |
| 04:38.58 | Maquis | but i can be on irc |
| 04:39.04 | Maquis | and i can't ping anyone else either |
| 04:39.06 | LeviHome | Oh, it didn't lock, it just lost network. |
| 04:39.16 | Maquis | i can ping my desktop fine |
| 04:40.19 | LeviHome | Ahh, it was my stupid swtich. |
| 04:40.23 | LeviHome | I ought to replace it. |
| 04:42.59 | Maquis | hmmmm |
| 04:43.05 | Maquis | my desktop can ping google just fine |
| 05:01.19 | mheath | Nameserver problems? |
| 05:01.31 | mheath | Maybe your IRC server is cached somehow |
| 05:01.47 | mheath | but google isn't, and can't be looked up on that machine for some reason or another |
| 05:07.47 | mheath | Wow, Enlightenment DR17 really slows my computer down |
| 05:11.48 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:34.03 | Maquis | mheath: bloatware |
| 05:36.39 | *** join/#utah levi-laptop (~levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:42.54 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 06:15.05 | fozz | Okay. Any postfixers? |
| 06:29.44 | xbmodder | ? |
| 07:23.14 | SpecialK | tensai: a Little late, but grapes will spark in the microwave if you cut them in half. I think the conclusion we reached as roomates was the moisture and separation of pieces allowed a buildup of electrons on one side followed by eventual discharge. |
| 07:35.36 | xbmodder | haha! |
| 07:46.19 | xbmodder | anyone here? |
| 10:06.47 | xbmodder | hello!? |
| 11:15.00 | *** join/#utah Maquis_ (~Maquis@byu074961wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 11:53.48 | *** join/#utah Maquis (~Maquis@byu074961wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 14:10.17 | *** join/#utah Red_Hat (~al@c-24-10-202-248.client.comcast.net) |
| 14:24.31 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (~amcnabb@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 14:26.19 | *** join/#utah hans (fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 14:55.32 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@208.186.180.204) |
| 14:56.23 | goozbach | this is probally the earliest I've ever been in the office since my first week here. |
| 14:56.39 | Maquis | morning goo |
| 14:56.54 | goozbach | SpecialK: there are a lot of other fun things to do with a microwave |
| 14:57.02 | goozbach | like make ball lightnining |
| 14:57.11 | goozbach | microwave lava |
| 14:57.17 | goozbach | cd's work well |
| 14:57.17 | Maquis | ok, so i just ran the command 'e2fsck -c -c -C -y /dev/hda3' |
| 14:57.28 | goozbach | morning maq |
| 14:57.38 | Maquis | the result was: |
| 14:57.40 | Maquis | /dev/hda3: ***** FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED ***** |
| 14:57.41 | Maquis | /dev/hda3: 441352/3597440 files (3.6% non-contiguous), 3843509/7189087 blocks |
| 14:57.52 | Maquis | but i have no idea what that means |
| 14:57.58 | goozbach | It isn't even 8 am yet!!! |
| 14:58.02 | goozbach | WOW! |
| 14:58.09 | Maquis | my watch just beeped |
| 14:58.11 | goozbach | I'm WAY early |
| 14:58.17 | goozbach | ~date |
| 14:58.18 | ibot | Mon Feb 21 14:58:18 2005 |
| 14:58.28 | goozbach | yeah 2 minutes early |
| 14:58.28 | Maquis | no, you're late |
| 14:58.34 | *** join/#utah Red_Hat (~al@c-24-10-202-248.client.comcast.net) |
| 14:58.38 | Maquis | it's almost 3 pm! |
| 14:58.46 | goozbach | ibot is set from GMT |
| 14:58.50 | Maquis | :) |
| 14:59.11 | Maquis | goozbach: the big question is, why are you at work this early on a *holiday*? |
| 14:59.27 | goozbach | it's a holiday?? |
| 14:59.41 | Maquis | president's day.... |
| 14:59.41 | goozbach | you mean I'm not supposed to come to work today??? |
| 14:59.46 | goozbach | bugger all |
| 15:00.17 | goozbach | it's all good |
| 15:00.41 | goozbach | I'm here mostlly so I can get my XEN client os's working |
| 15:00.55 | goozbach | ~holiday |
| 15:01.03 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 15:01.10 | goozbach | meh I thought it was worth a try |
| 15:02.22 | goozbach | so what's everybody planing for the holiday? |
| 15:02.58 | hans | i don't get it off |
| 15:03.31 | goozbach | ~lart "pack-em-in" airlines |
| 15:03.31 | Maquis | homework!!! |
| 15:03.42 | Maquis | goozbach: you out of town again this week? |
| 15:03.56 | goozbach | I leave tomorrow to go back to VA |
| 15:04.11 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 15:04.14 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@71.32.230.91) |
| 15:04.17 | hans | what'd you do to deserve that? |
| 15:04.37 | goozbach | I'm an awesome teacher I guess |
| 15:04.40 | Maquis | you could've just stayed and spent the weekend hanging out... and cut out 2 whole flights... |
| 15:05.11 | goozbach | Maquis: I would have had I not had previous engagement on sunday |
| 15:05.25 | Maquis | ah... |
| 15:05.34 | Maquis | "previous engagement" is an interesting phrase... |
| 15:05.52 | goozbach | as well as the fact that the hotel from sat -> wed > flights back and forth |
| 15:06.08 | Maquis | huh? |
| 15:08.06 | Maquis | oh... |
| 15:08.10 | Maquis | that's how you parse that |
| 15:09.05 | tensai | Maquis: staying in a hotel from saturday to wednesday is worse than flying back and forth |
| 15:09.20 | Maquis | :) |
| 15:09.42 | Maquis | goozbach: did the hotel have wireless? |
| 15:15.31 | Maquis | so, ummm... |
| 15:15.51 | Maquis | does anybody know what the results of my fsck mean? |
| 15:19.03 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 15:19.17 | goozbach | Maquis: yup |
| 15:23.23 | Maquis | goozbach: and? |
| 15:25.27 | goozbach | yup to the wireless question |
| 15:27.38 | goozbach | looking for bad blocks... I'm not sure that the output you'd see if there were bad blocks |
| 15:33.08 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 15:38.35 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@67-40-111-88.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 15:40.27 | tensai | http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html |
| 15:41.38 | Maquis | wine dies pretty badly when run on knoppix |
| 15:44.16 | *** join/#utah bzob (~bzobrist@dynix.dynix.com) |
| 15:58.39 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:19.20 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (~bbeattie@65.89.233.20) |
| 16:21.58 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:28.18 | goozbach | blah |
| 16:28.24 | goozbach | blah blah blah |
| 16:28.32 | goozbach | sjansen musta slept in |
| 16:40.37 | bbeattie | Just curious, anyone want to guess what % of engineers in Utah have today off work? |
| 16:41.20 | JoshH | 0? |
| 16:42.13 | bbeattie | Novell is closed today, so it can't be 0 :) |
| 16:42.19 | goozbach | .334 |
| 16:43.05 | JoshH | i should have called in sick today |
| 16:43.12 | JoshH | my bed was so comfy this morning |
| 16:43.40 | Maquis | ok |
| 16:43.45 | Maquis | so, here's an interesting question |
| 16:44.06 | Maquis | they just reported that there's a poll where people said that George Washington was the 7th best president in the US... |
| 16:44.11 | Maquis | umm... |
| 16:44.27 | Maquis | how did 6 people (including Andrew Jackson) beat George Washington??? |
| 16:44.33 | bbeattie | .. And Al Gore was #1? |
| 16:44.44 | JoshH | im sure clinton was up there |
| 16:44.54 | JoshH | lots of clinton fans in the blue states |
| 16:44.57 | Maquis | the only thing i can think of that andrew jackson did was kill a bunch of Native Americans... |
| 16:45.10 | Maquis | which certainly shouldn't put him high on the list |
| 16:45.11 | JoshH | well he certainly wasnt the only one who did that |
| 16:45.26 | Maquis | no, but he was the worst about it, if i remember correctly from US History |
| 16:45.30 | JoshH | washington probably fell more than one redskin with his musket |
| 16:46.05 | JoshH | back in those days killing indians wasnt considered bad, you cant apply modern morality to those times |
| 16:46.15 | Maquis | i agree with that |
| 16:46.17 | JoshH | indians used to scalp settlers all the time too, they were hardly peaceful. |
| 16:46.28 | Maquis | but we shouldn't then say that he's now a better president that washington |
| 16:46.42 | JoshH | i agree |
| 16:46.47 | JoshH | i dont know how that happened |
| 16:47.03 | Maquis | i would say that really, no president would definitely take a higher rank, in my opinion than washington |
| 16:47.11 | Maquis | the only one that i would put even close would be lincoln |
| 16:47.34 | bbeattie | .. I'm debating. Anyone know what is faster/better performance? a 200gb 8mb cache IDE drive or an older 4.5GB scsi UW seagate drive? .. (Building a fileserver with 5x200gb drives and am wondering if it would be better to run the root fs off of the old scsi drive..... Seek time I think is around 4.5ms, most ide drives are 7-9ms) |
| 16:48.26 | JoshH | well how often is it going to be booted? |
| 16:48.35 | JoshH | the difference probably wont be noticeable anyway |
| 16:48.43 | bbeattie | once a month or less. (running 24x7) |
| 16:48.47 | JoshH | for just a boot partitition |
| 16:48.54 | bbeattie | root fs.. |
| 16:49.04 | JoshH | ah misread that |
| 16:49.05 | JoshH | sorry heh |
| 16:49.24 | bbeattie | I'm siding on the scsi drive, but I'd like to know what everyone else here thinks. |
| 16:49.59 | JoshH | the scsi drives in my fileserver read at about 40 megs per second |
| 16:50.12 | JoshH | the 8mb cache WD IDE drive in my desktop reads at about 48 |
| 16:51.01 | bbeattie | But I'm also not sure how much better it would be, my memory was that years ago I had an ide system and it took 7 seconds to start netscape, I put in the scsi drive and it took 3) |
| 16:51.45 | JoshH | it takes me about 3 seconds to start firefox for the first time |
| 16:52.00 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 16:52.14 | Maquis | the radio said that andrew jackson was above washington, but i'm not seeing that on this list... |
| 16:52.21 | Maquis | although apparently, it says there were multiple polls |
| 16:52.24 | Maquis | still stupid though |
| 16:52.39 | bbeattie | I don't care as much about throughput as overall performance/response time. (I'll be running a mysql db that will get quite a few hits). |
| 16:54.15 | bbeattie | throughput I'd believe for a root fs should be rather low.. it's the 5x200gb drives for media storage that I'll need to be writing 10MB/s and reading 5MB/s |
| 16:54.37 | JoshH | i would probably just use the scsi drive. the performance will be fine, and then you can just use the 200 gig drives for storage. |
| 16:54.54 | bbeattie | I guess my main question is, "Is it better to just use IDE drives, or should I drop in an older scsi drive if that will help performance slightly?" |
| 16:56.13 | JoshH | honestly, i dont think the performance would be noticeably different either way, but personally, i would use the scsi drive. |
| 16:57.42 | bbeattie | Alright.. Figuring it takes 10Watts to run, and power of $.08/kwh, that's about $7 extra a year to run the drive. :) .. Running a computer is *not cheap* :-) running at 380W costs $266 a year to run. ;) |
| 16:58.11 | bbeattie | 380/1000*.08*365 |
| 16:59.01 | JoshH | jeez, better find a second job. :P |
| 16:59.09 | bbeattie | 380/1000*24*.08*365=266.30 |
| 16:59.47 | bbeattie | Yeah, computers aren't cheap to run, that's for sure.. I'm sure the cost is over $500 a year to run 3 systems not even 24x7. |
| 17:08.36 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 17:12.04 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.client.comcast.net) |
| 17:18.21 | tensai | anybody have experience using CGI.pm to handle file uploads? I've got a script that seems right according to the man page but isn't working. |
| 17:28.26 | *** join/#utah onetwig (~onetwig@66.239.8.5.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:41.23 | *** join/#utah xilch (~xilch@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:49.35 | tensai | ok, problem solved. apparently you have to reload html pages before changes take effect. |
| 17:52.19 | onetwig | cache is a wonderful thing ;) |
| 17:53.11 | tensai | it's even worse when you just reload the cgi page without going back to the html. poor browser never even had a chance. |
| 17:57.35 | xbmodder | hah |
| 17:57.42 | tensai | wahoo! I got a message back from Bar-S about my sparking hot dog. |
| 17:57.49 | tensai | the sparks from the hot dogs are caused by fat particles escaping from the surface of the hot dog. We always recommend that any food be covered while cooking in the microwave because it is such an intense cooking method that it spatters, explodes, boils over, etc. easily if not kept under control. |
| 18:04.02 | xbmodder | you hotdog sparked? |
| 18:04.11 | xbmodder | wait organic stuff does not spark |
| 18:04.34 | tensai | oh yes it does |
| 18:05.29 | xbmodder | maybe it has metal in it... Did you ever think of that? |
| 18:06.30 | tensai | I did consider it but I don't recall stapling my hotdog to the plate before warming it up |
| 18:06.57 | xbmodder | hah |
| 18:17.54 | tene | organic stuff can spark plenty, xbm |
| 18:19.34 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (~flyboy@69.20.57.22) |
| 18:19.36 | goozbach | there could also be metal by-products from the hot-dog grinding |
| 18:19.57 | goozbach | red grapes spark well because of the high iron content |
| 18:37.05 | flyboy^ | Humm... Let's say I wanted to read/browse through the docs that define the POSIX standard - where are they? |
| 18:37.25 | flyboy^ | I've been looking for a while now and can't see to find them, just lots of links about them - not the actual docs. :) |
| 18:39.59 | flyboy^ | Are they really going to charge me $5000.00 to look at the POSIX standard? Whoa. |
| 18:49.39 | flyboy^ | It appears unix.org has a copy of it for those that register (no cost). |
| 18:59.21 | xbmodder | haha |
| 19:00.19 | goozbach | I find POSIX humorus as well |
| 19:23.15 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@67-40-111-88.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:23.33 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 19:55.59 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 19:56.15 | findlay | tensai: thanks for the iptables help (: |
| 19:58.21 | Maquis | help!!! |
| 19:58.31 | Maquis | i'm trying to mount /dev/hda3 read-only |
| 19:58.39 | Maquis | and i can't get it to do it |
| 19:58.54 | Maquis | (i'm in single-user-mode and trying to get fsck to work... |
| 19:59.04 | Maquis | but when i run mount, it shows it with an rw |
| 19:59.15 | Maquis | and i tried using mount -r -o remount /dev/hda3 |
| 19:59.18 | Maquis | but that didn't fix it |
| 20:01.22 | *** join/#utah tensai-treo (~upirc@001-825-396.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:01.36 | spr | mount reads from mtab |
| 20:01.56 | spr | if your filesystem is read-only, it can't very well edit mtab :) |
| 20:02.00 | findlay | tensai-treo: thanks for the iptables help |
| 20:02.01 | Maquis | ok... |
| 20:02.05 | Maquis | so, then it should be fine? |
| 20:02.17 | spr | yeah, fsck should complain if it's not ro |
| 20:03.05 | Maquis | fsck has a message that says "/dev/hda3 is mounted; it's not safe to run badblocks" |
| 20:03.09 | Maquis | (but it is running) |
| 20:03.34 | findlay | echo "Are you really read-only?" >> /mnt/hda3/file |
| 20:03.53 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:04.17 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 20:05.24 | tensai-treo | cat /proc/mounts |
| 20:06.07 | Maquis | can i ctrl-c while fsck is running? or is that bad? |
| 20:06.40 | Maquis | (to cat /proc/mounts) |
| 20:07.43 | tene | do it! |
| 20:07.48 | tene | then killall -9 fsck |
| 20:08.12 | tensai-treo | ~slap tene |
| 20:08.14 | ibot | ACTION slaps tene, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 20:08.35 | tensai-treo | heh, forgot to change the nick back |
| 20:09.03 | Maquis | ok... |
| 20:09.24 | Maquis | so, fsck finished and it said "filesystem was modified reboot linux" |
| 20:09.39 | Maquis | and when i catted /proc/mounts, it has rootfs / rw |
| 20:09.53 | Maquis | (there was more to that line, but hey... i'm running between computers here) |
| 20:12.22 | Maquis | also said "441558/3597440 files (3.6% non-contiguous), 4454733/7189087 blocks" |
| 20:12.47 | tensai | ~lart sjansen-treo for posing as me |
| 20:12.53 | tensai | ~lart sjansen-treo for posing as tensai |
| 20:13.20 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:13.23 | Maquis | anyone able to help??? |
| 20:13.27 | Maquis | Peregrine: hi! |
| 20:13.32 | Peregrine | Hi Maquis. |
| 20:13.38 | Bradipo | What's the problem? |
| 20:13.39 | Peregrine | ltns |
| 20:13.44 | Bradipo | It looks like the fsck was successful. |
| 20:14.00 | Maquis | Bradipo: even though it complained about things being mounted and such? |
| 20:14.04 | Bradipo | Oh. |
| 20:14.08 | Bradipo | Did you have things mounted? |
| 20:14.21 | Maquis | i tried not to, but i had problems |
| 20:14.36 | tensai | mount -o remount,ro / |
| 20:14.50 | Maquis | tensai: pretty much what i did...' |
| 20:15.04 | Bradipo | Is /dev/hda3 / ? |
| 20:15.12 | Maquis | but fsck still complained, and /proc/mounts still claims it's mounted rw |
| 20:15.30 | Maquis | Bradipo: yup |
| 20:15.57 | Bradipo | Maybe you should unmount /proc |
| 20:16.20 | Maquis | Bradipo: ok... but what will that do? and why are things complaining??? |
| 20:16.27 | Bradipo | Better still, at the boot prompt type: init=/bin/sh |
| 20:16.34 | Maquis | i just want to know if my hard drive has bad sectors!!!!! |
| 20:16.36 | Bradipo | Then you can be certain nothing will be mounted. |
| 20:16.44 | Maquis | init = /bin/sh? |
| 20:16.45 | Bradipo | Oh. |
| 20:17.14 | tensai | why not boot knoppix instead? |
| 20:17.15 | Bradipo | Yeah, basically bypasses the normal init. |
| 20:17.24 | Bradipo | And dumps you right into a shell. |
| 20:17.32 | Bradipo | Then you can be certain nothing is mounted except / |
| 20:17.37 | Bradipo | Which should already be mounted ro. |
| 20:17.45 | Maquis | toshiba won't do anything unless i can prove that the hard drive has bad sectors... if i can't prove that, then the fact that it's had hard drive corruption problems stinks... |
| 20:17.47 | Bradipo | fsck that and any other filesystems from three. |
| 20:17.49 | Peregrine | tensai: Why bother with knoppix? Just use the Gentoo liveCD |
| 20:17.54 | Maquis | Bradipo: what if i don't want / mounted? |
| 20:18.03 | Bradipo | Well, its mounted ro. |
| 20:18.08 | Peregrine | ugh. |
| 20:18.11 | Bradipo | You can fsck / when it is ro. |
| 20:18.18 | tensai | Peregrine: 6 in one, half dozen in the other. I happen to have knoppix discs burned. |
| 20:18.26 | Bradipo | If you don't want / mounted, then you'll have to use a boot CD or floppy. |
| 20:18.33 | Maquis | ok... so reboot, and add init=/bin/sh to the end of the line? (after the s?) |
| 20:18.51 | Bradipo | Yeah, that would work. |
| 20:18.52 | Peregrine | yeah, but Maquis uses Gentoo, so I *know* she has one of those somewhere :). |
| 20:19.04 | Bradipo | You could remove the s since it isn't going to have any effect. |
| 20:19.16 | Peregrine | The s won't matter if you are not running init. |
| 20:19.42 | Bradipo | But I'm not sure if fsck reports bad blocks... |
| 20:19.58 | Maquis | uh oh... ummmmm.... |
| 20:20.15 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:20.19 | Maquis | the command reboot shouldn't be complaining about syntax errors should it??? |
| 20:20.30 | Bradipo | There you go. |
| 20:20.32 | tensai | shutdown -r now |
| 20:20.34 | Peregrine | fsck has switches to do so for some filesystem types. Remember, fsck is implemented for each filesystem type as a different program. |
| 20:20.42 | Bradipo | Maquis: That happens because the scripts aren't able to run properly. |
| 20:20.46 | Maquis | ok |
| 20:20.48 | Maquis | that's good |
| 20:20.49 | Bradipo | Probably because the filesystem is read-only. |
| 20:21.10 | tensai | sync; sync; sync; *kill power* |
| 20:21.21 | Maquis | should i just give it my root password to go into maintenance mode, or is it better to just go for the init=/bin/sh ? |
| 20:21.25 | Peregrine | ye olde reset button works..on systems with no button labeles "reset" that would be the power cable :) |
| 20:21.31 | tensai | saw that recommendation a long time ago |
| 20:21.41 | Bradipo | init=/bin/sh requires no passwords. |
| 20:22.20 | Bradipo | init=/bin/sh is the lowest level you can get, short of running a boot floppy. |
| 20:22.43 | Maquis | ok... |
| 20:22.45 | Maquis | but... |
| 20:22.56 | tensai | and that's why grub and lilo have passwords |
| 20:22.58 | Maquis | it wouldn't let me do anything besides going into maintenance mode |
| 20:23.13 | Maquis | and /sbin/shutdown -r now isn't doing anything |
| 20:23.31 | Peregrine | Shutdown will not work if init is not running. |
| 20:23.32 | Bradipo | Well, you can just power it off. |
| 20:23.36 | Maquis | ok... |
| 20:23.39 | Bradipo | The filesystem should be ro at the moment. |
| 20:23.43 | Bradipo | So it shouldn't hurt anything. |
| 20:23.44 | tensai | ~lart windows email clients that can't read a simple mbox file |
| 20:24.11 | Bradipo | At one point, I thought Netscape used mbox, but I could be wrong. |
| 20:24.52 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.31 | tensai | ok, yeah. it might. I'll change my lart then. |
| 20:25.32 | sjansen-treo | it does |
| 20:25.53 | tensai | ~lart Eudora for not being able to open a saved email as anything besides plain text |
| 20:26.01 | Bradipo | Eudora sucks, plain and simple. |
| 20:26.07 | Maquis | ok... now i get e2fsck command not found |
| 20:26.11 | Bradipo | That's fine. |
| 20:26.16 | Maquis | i'm assuming i have to give the path to it? |
| 20:26.17 | Bradipo | AGain, low level. |
| 20:26.21 | Bradipo | Nothing is initialized. |
| 20:26.22 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 20:26.25 | Peregrine | Maquis: yup. |
| 20:26.28 | *** part/#utah sjansen-treo (~upirc@001-825-396.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:26.29 | Bradipo | Or set the PATH environment variable. |
| 20:26.34 | Maquis | where is it normally? |
| 20:26.38 | Bradipo | Probably /sbin |
| 20:26.42 | Peregrine | There is no $PATH (or any other environment) |
| 20:26.48 | Bradipo | Make sure it is read-only first. |
| 20:26.59 | Bradipo | touch /readonly.txt |
| 20:27.01 | Bradipo | That should complain. |
| 20:27.07 | tensai | since Eudora sucks, I have to try to import an Outlook PST. Since Outlook can't open an mbox, I have to filter it through Outlook Express. |
| 20:27.21 | tensai | it's a bloody nightmare |
| 20:27.21 | Maquis | Bradipo: ok... it says it's read-only |
| 20:27.31 | Maquis | so, what i've been using as my fsck command is: |
| 20:27.39 | Bradipo | tensai: Use IMAP to upload the files and then IMAP in Outlook to get them. |
| 20:27.41 | Maquis | e2fsck -c -c -C 0 -f -y /dev/hda3 |
| 20:27.42 | Maquis | is that correct? |
| 20:27.44 | Bradipo | That's what we had to do. |
| 20:28.03 | Maquis | ???? |
| 20:28.18 | tensai | I have to put the files on a CD so that a user can open them in Eudora offline |
| 20:28.24 | Bradipo | What a pain. |
| 20:28.41 | Maquis | is that the correct command? someone??? please??? |
| 20:28.55 | Bradipo | tensai: Reverse what I said... Outlook to IMAP then IMAP to Eudora. Then copy them to local folders. |
| 20:28.58 | Maquis | (sorry... this is something i'm very new to, in case you can't tell) |
| 20:29.20 | tensai | Bradipo: yeah, I would have gone straight to Outlook but I'm running in Exchange mode with means no IMAP |
| 20:29.26 | Bradipo | Maquis: Yeah. I'm not sure what all those options do, but if the man page says to use those, it should work. |
| 20:29.34 | Bradipo | Double ouch. |
| 20:29.36 | Maquis | that's what someone told me some other time... |
| 20:29.38 | tensai | that's the other fun wrench in the plan |
| 20:29.55 | Bradipo | What does -C 0 do? |
| 20:30.21 | Bradipo | Interesting. |
| 20:30.32 | Bradipo | That e2fsck seems alright. |
| 20:30.41 | Maquis | Bradipo: ok... thanks... |
| 20:30.44 | tensai | writes completion info to the given file descriptor so that progress can be monitored |
| 20:30.46 | Bradipo | Not sure why the double -c |
| 20:31.09 | tensai | "if the fd is 0 it will print a completion bar as it goes about its business" |
| 20:31.12 | Maquis | the man page says that it causes the bad blocks scan to be done using a non-destructive read-write test... |
| 20:31.12 | Bradipo | RIght. |
| 20:31.16 | Maquis | (the -c -c) |
| 20:31.32 | Bradipo | That sounds scary to me... |
| 20:31.35 | Maquis | Bradipo: it is still giving the "/dev/hda3 is mounted; it's not safe to run badblocks!" error message |
| 20:31.38 | Peregrine | tensai: You would get it to IMAP from Exchange using Evolution. |
| 20:31.44 | Bradipo | Ok. |
| 20:31.51 | Bradipo | Possibly reading from /etc/mtab or something. |
| 20:31.57 | Maquis | ok... |
| 20:31.59 | Bradipo | mount -o remount,rw / |
| 20:32.03 | Bradipo | Delete /etc/mtab |
| 20:32.08 | Bradipo | Then mount -o remount,ro / |
| 20:32.13 | Peregrine | Then use Eudora via IMAP and save the files to disk, then make the ISO from that. |
| 20:32.13 | Bradipo | Followed by sync |
| 20:32.23 | Maquis | i'll try that when it's done with this run... |
| 20:32.25 | Maquis | sync? |
| 20:32.44 | Bradipo | sync flushes data to disk. |
| 20:32.50 | tensai | Peregrine: yeah, that would have worked. too late now though. I'm halfway done importing into Outlook. |
| 20:32.56 | Maquis | removing /etc/mntab won't cause problems? |
| 20:33.28 | Peregrine | tensai: doh! Glad I don't have to deal with all that crap. |
| 20:34.07 | Peregrine | Maquis: Naw. Only mount and umount really care about mtab (well, fsck will look at it sometimes). |
| 20:34.25 | findlay | if I can IRC now and I've got some iptables rules going, then obviously this IRC traffic is making it properly through the firewall? |
| 20:34.39 | mheath | Besides, on LInux if you remove mtab, you can just copy the correct working version from proc |
| 20:34.41 | findlay | right, did I do it right? |
| 20:34.49 | tensai | findlay: yes |
| 20:34.52 | findlay | yea |
| 20:35.03 | Maquis | Peregrine: ok... so, then when this is done, i remount rw, remove that file, remount ro, sync, and then hopefully it'll let me run this? |
| 20:35.40 | Bradipo | Maquis: /etc/mtab is generated by the OS. |
| 20:35.48 | Bradipo | Just make sure you don't delete /etc/fstab (big no-no). |
| 20:35.54 | Peregrine | If I was going to guess, yes. But since I am not looking at the messages you got, I can not promise 100%. |
| 20:35.54 | Maquis | right... |
| 20:36.09 | Peregrine | no /etc/mtab is not generated by the OS. |
| 20:36.10 | Maquis | Peregrine: i've posted most of the messages i've gotten :) |
| 20:36.23 | Peregrine | Guess I misses some of that. |
| 20:36.41 | Maquis | Peregrine: it just keeps complaining that it's not safe to run badblocks... |
| 20:36.41 | mheath | mtab can be generated by the OS |
| 20:36.51 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.03 | Peregrine | no mheath it is not. |
| 20:37.06 | Bradipo | Maquis: Running badblocks does seem scary to me. |
| 20:37.16 | Peregrine | The kernel shows what it sees via /proc/mounts |
| 20:37.23 | mheath | Peregrine: unless you unsync things and things break and do bad things, it is. |
| 20:37.31 | Peregrine | /etc/mtab is maintained by mount & umount |
| 20:37.41 | mheath | I know that. |
| 20:37.56 | mheath | In a correctly funcitoning system, though, mtab and /proc/mounts are identical. |
| 20:38.03 | Bradipo | What I don't understand is how it determines a bad block... |
| 20:38.06 | mheath | They're both supposed to contain what you have mounted, how you have them mounted, etc. |
| 20:38.06 | Peregrine | There is no guarantee that they will agree, though in normal operations they always will. However, Maquis is in just such a situation where they will not agree. |
| 20:38.10 | Bradipo | If there is already data on that block, does it kill the data? |
| 20:38.21 | Peregrine | /etc/mtab is never generated from /proc/mounts |
| 20:38.25 | Bradipo | Sounds like a recipe to destroy all the data on the drive, but maybe someone that knows more about -c could answer that. |
| 20:38.28 | Maquis | ummm... |
| 20:38.34 | Maquis | it's still giving the same complaint... |
| 20:38.37 | mheath | Peregrine: if they don't agree, you should *always* rm -rf /etc/mtab && cp /proc/mounts /etc/mtab |
| 20:38.47 | Maquis | Bradipo: that's not very comforting... |
| 20:38.52 | Bradipo | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:38.56 | Bradipo | Nothing is mounted. |
| 20:38.59 | Bradipo | Except for / |
| 20:39.13 | Maquis | Bradipo: is there any way i can get / unmounted??? |
| 20:39.30 | Bradipo | Maquis: No. You need / mounted to be able to use /bin/sh |
| 20:39.31 | mheath | So? Mount /proc. |
| 20:39.41 | mheath | Maquis: / is your world :) |
| 20:39.57 | Bradipo | Maquis: The only alternative is to use a boot floppy/CD |
| 20:40.22 | Bradipo | Maybe -c doesn't allow / to be mounted read-only. |
| 20:40.33 | Bradipo | Maybe you will have to do this from another boot medium. |
| 20:40.41 | Peregrine | to mount /proc you will have to have / mounted rw |
| 20:40.46 | Bradipo | At any rate, can anyone comment on what -c -c actually does? |
| 20:40.49 | Maquis | Bradipo: i was using knoppix earlier, but apparently not the correct command, and someone said that i should just do it from single-user-mode... but i think i might go back to knoppix |
| 20:40.50 | Bradipo | Is it going to destroy data? |
| 20:41.03 | Maquis | Bradipo: according to the man page, it's non-destructive reading and writing... |
| 20:41.11 | mheath | Peregrine: no, you don't |
| 20:41.38 | Maquis | my guess is that it saves what's there in a variable, writes the byte, reads the byte, and then writes back the original byte (substitute byte for whatever size it does at any point in time) |
| 20:41.47 | Maquis | but that's a completely wild guess |
| 20:41.54 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 20:42.10 | lukfugl | ~wave |
| 20:42.12 | ibot | methinks wave is no |
| 20:42.12 | Bradipo | THat's still a scary operation in my opinion. |
| 20:42.31 | Peregrine | Maquis: I would recommend the liveCD environment for things like this. There are just too manu little stupid things like the /etc/mtab gripes that get in the way of getting things done. |
| 20:42.37 | Bradipo | Maquis: You might want to have a look at the badblocks man page (which is what -c runs_ |
| 20:43.00 | lukfugl | anyone experienced in getting dual-head setups to work? |
| 20:43.54 | Bradipo | Maquis: Looks like badblocks won't run on a read-only mounted / |
| 20:44.03 | Bradipo | So you're back to a boot floppy/CD. |
| 20:44.28 | Maquis | ok |
| 20:44.56 | Peregrine | Well, there's another little reason to use the CD |
| 20:45.06 | lukfugl | I've got a dual output nVidia GeForce FX 5200 (with adapter), two Flatron's and am using SuSE 9.2 with YaST2 |
| 20:45.07 | Maquis | so, i'm back booting knoppix now |
| 20:45.18 | Maquis | so, should i keep doing it with fsck, or should i just use badblocks/ |
| 20:45.43 | Bradipo | Well, badblocks recommends you use e2fsck |
| 20:45.50 | Maquis | and is it safe to say "bad block == bad sector"??? |
| 20:46.16 | lukfugl | I've got one monitor displaying in X just fine, but can't do anything with the other -- YaST says my system "does not provide more than one graphics device" when I try and configure multihead mode |
| 20:46.32 | Maquis | ie, if it finds bad blocks, when i call into toshiba, can i just have them escalate the call to someone who knows something if they tell me it has to say "bad sector" instead of "bad block"??? |
| 20:46.42 | Bradipo | If this is for Toshiba, don't they have a utility that checks for bad hard drives? |
| 20:46.44 | *** join/#utah spig (~spig_@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:46.59 | Peregrine | well, it's back to work for me. |
| 20:47.11 | Bradipo | I mean, if they are telling their customers that they have to show that it is bad, they must be providing them with tools to get the job done right? |
| 20:48.19 | Bradipo | Are you having hard drive problems? |
| 20:48.38 | Maquis | Bradipo: they might, but they won't support linux at all |
| 20:48.52 | Maquis | i've had a lot of problems that look quite a bit like hard drive problems |
| 20:49.04 | hans | lukfugl: probably use twinview or whatever it's called. nvidia's own xinerama-like thing (looks like xinerama to the applications, but not to the server) |
| 20:49.07 | Bradipo | What are the problems? |
| 20:49.27 | hans | probably that's why yast thinks you don't have it. I can send my XF86Config-4 if you need it. |
| 20:49.44 | Maquis | orphaned inodes when it's been brought down cleanly |
| 20:50.07 | Maquis | some other things have been mentioned in dmesg also... |
| 20:50.26 | lukfugl | hans: well, if I add the same card twice in the Graphics Card section of YaST, it lets me configure multihead mode, but doesn't appear to be working |
| 20:50.29 | Maquis | if this turns up clean though, i guess it's something else... |
| 20:50.32 | Maquis | right? |
| 20:50.48 | Bradipo | Yeah, dmesg errors can definitely be indicative of a problem. |
| 20:51.01 | Maquis | Bradipo: they said that windows checkdisk tells when there are bad sectors |
| 20:51.41 | Maquis | i've also had file system corruption occuring when there's no reason for it... |
| 20:52.07 | Bradipo | Laptops are notorious for hardware problems. |
| 20:52.14 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 20:52.35 | Maquis | unfortunately, i'd prefer to have a laptop where teh company will believe linux utilities... |
| 20:52.44 | hans | lukfugl: sent |
| 20:53.08 | Bradipo | How about a company believes their customers? :-) |
| 20:53.22 | lukfugl | hans: to gmail? |
| 20:53.36 | Maquis | Bradipo: i can understand some of these companies not believing the average customer |
| 20:54.03 | Maquis | i mean, if they did, they'd suddenly start thinking they were in the cup-holder business... |
| 20:54.17 | Bradipo | Maybe, but perception is reality for most people. |
| 20:54.20 | hans | lukfugl: nope, fugal.net ;-) |
| 20:54.34 | Bradipo | If you think there is something wrong with Toshiba hardware, are you likely to buy it anymore, or recommend it to anyone? |
| 20:54.48 | Bradipo | Whether or not there really is a problem, Toshiba loses you as a customer and possibly others. |
| 20:56.12 | Maquis | if i have a hardware problem, and the company's tech support handles it well, i'm going to continue being a customer... |
| 20:56.25 | lukfugl | hans: my fugal.net account has become to spamridden I hardly check it anymore |
| 20:56.26 | *** part/#utah Peregrine (~lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:56.33 | Bradipo | Exactly. |
| 20:56.36 | hans | sounds like you need to remedy that |
| 20:56.42 | Maquis | if i find that the company's tech support's general response to things is "we won't help you unless you test it under windows", i'm not going to go to them again |
| 20:57.21 | lukfugl | plus, I can't seem to make it work right now in squirrelmail. I get the sidebar but the main panel is empty |
| 20:57.47 | Maquis | methinks a thinkpad or something like that might be in the distant future... might have beeter support... |
| 20:58.11 | Bradipo | We have had a lot of problems with Toshiba hardware failing. |
| 20:58.38 | Bradipo | Some of the models have heat problems and the hard drive just dies due to the overheating. |
| 20:59.07 | Bradipo | In fact, one of the bugs we found was that the auto adjusting fan would actually turn off when it got too hot, instead of speeding up. |
| 20:59.19 | Bradipo | Turn off or slow down. |
| 21:00.08 | goozbach | Jayce^: here's a service for you... |
| 21:00.11 | goozbach | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2005-02-21 |
| 21:00.27 | goozbach | that goes for any WOW or Everquest addicts |
| 21:00.40 | Bradipo | hans: By the way, made some excellent focaccia last night. |
| 21:01.03 | Bradipo | Focaccia Barese and Focaccia Genovese. |
| 21:02.36 | hans | mm |
| 21:02.51 | hans | I transplanted my herbs and chiles today into larger containers |
| 21:03.34 | tensai | lukfugl: probably too many messages and php can't malloc enough memory to hold all the headers |
| 21:03.45 | hans | use another imap client |
| 21:03.56 | hans | thunderbird, evolution, kmail, mutt, whatever |
| 21:04.14 | tensai | we see that problem all the time. I've bumped up max_memory (or whateve the option is called) to rediculous amounts. |
| 21:04.36 | tensai | fat clients seem to be ok |
| 21:05.23 | lukfugl | tensai: 3000+ in the inbox? probably :) |
| 21:06.13 | tensai | uh, yeah. that's exactly why I've got this /fun/ project of importing 7101 messages into Eudora. |
| 21:06.22 | lukfugl | hans: don't have any set up |
| 21:06.26 | hans | lol |
| 21:06.41 | lukfugl | suse doesn't have a thunderbird RPM (grumble), I couldn't get it to install correctly from source |
| 21:07.18 | hans | what's wrong with the linux binary? |
| 21:07.25 | hans | just untar and run |
| 21:07.27 | lukfugl | that one wouldn't work either |
| 21:07.36 | hans | ah. points for suse I guess. |
| 21:07.37 | lukfugl | missing libraries or something |
| 21:07.45 | lukfugl | yeah, I'm getting a little fed up with it |
| 21:07.47 | hans | mutt? apt-get install mutt ;-) |
| 21:08.05 | hans | slap ubuntu on |
| 21:09.26 | hans | (I've got a ubuntu cd burned you can use) |
| 21:10.49 | lukfugl | meanwhile, do you want to send that email to my gmail account? |
| 21:41.22 | tene | eww... |
| 21:41.50 | goozbach | he he sed... |
| 21:43.40 | tensai | tene: quick, write a sed script to fix goozbach's last statement |
| 21:45.56 | tene | I'm trying to figure out how to mount qemu diskimages, and I've got a scripthere that will supposedly work, but it errors with sed talking about an unterminated statement. |
| 21:46.08 | Maquis | |lart life |
| 21:46.37 | tensai | ~lart Maquis' silly bot |
| 21:46.49 | tensai | ibot: no need |
| 21:46.59 | Maquis | ~lart tensai |
| 21:47.08 | *** join/#utah brigham (~brigham@byu074961wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 21:47.16 | Maquis | |lart life |
| 21:48.41 | tene | yay, it worked |
| 21:50.02 | bucky | where did lukfugl go? |
| 21:50.19 | bucky | he can get thunderbird with apt4rpm |
| 21:50.52 | bucky | i had to dl the contents archive and zgrep for it... thunderbird is in there |
| 21:52.04 | bucky | hans, are you lukfugl ? |
| 21:52.21 | Maquis | lukfugl is a different fugal, i think |
| 21:52.44 | bucky | poor suse people.. they think they have to use yast for everything |
| 21:54.17 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@128.187.253.206) |
| 21:54.42 | mheath | I'm not going to be active on IRC or any of my projects for the next couple of months (http://revolution.datamachine.net/ explains it all) |
| 21:54.52 | mheath | Just thought I'd let you all know before I /quit |
| 21:55.42 | mheath | This has all been way too distracting, and I need to concentrate on my schoolwork. If I can do that for the next 2 months, I'll have plenty of time tow ork on computer related projects later on. |
| 21:55.56 | bucky | good luck on school.. this is an important time - most people coast to graduation |
| 21:56.28 | jakea | mheath: I've been telling myself that for a lot longer than 2 months ;) |
| 21:56.29 | mheath | Heh, I would be able to coast to graduation, but I'm graduating a year early. Main reason I'm doing this is to focus on the online classes I'm taking. |
| 21:57.39 | mheath | Anyway, see you all later |
| 21:58.20 | tensai | but who will remind us that Hurd is still alive? |
| 21:58.34 | bucky | hmm... the Fugl's... i was watching pbs last night... the Danes warned the jews and almost all escaped the holocaust and went to sweden |
| 21:58.49 | bucky | that was nice of them |
| 21:59.18 | goozbach | no, don't, come back!!! |
| 22:00.41 | hans | wasn't it though |
| 22:01.14 | hans | bucky: me, lukfugl, and vontrapp. All Fugals. |
| 22:01.21 | bucky | hans, unlike the.. well, i won't mention any names, who just turned them over |
| 22:01.39 | bucky | hans, i'm one fourth |
| 22:02.09 | hans | 1/4 danish or 1/4 fugal? ;-) |
| 22:02.15 | bucky | dane |
| 22:02.38 | bucky | lot's of danes in utah... |
| 22:02.55 | hans | cool. we're actually more like 1/8 or 1/16 danish. more swedish than danish. but the paternal line is danish so we just don't talk about that. |
| 22:03.16 | hans | (and more english than either swedish or danish) |
| 22:04.05 | bucky | reader's digest says linus is an ethnic swede |
| 22:04.25 | hans | what does that mean? |
| 22:04.49 | tensai | family is swedish but lives in finland. there's a small population in the south |
| 22:05.02 | tensai | they speak swedish at home sort of thing |
| 22:05.17 | bucky | even though he was an finnish citizen he was of swedish descent |
| 22:06.13 | bucky | but people don't like to hear that |
| 22:06.18 | bucky | ;) lol |
| 22:06.28 | tensai | iirc there's about 300,000 ethnic swedes in finland |
| 22:07.21 | *** join/#utah findlay (~justin@65.203.174.134) |
| 22:07.22 | bucky | and they're considered finns just as much as anyone else |
| 22:07.32 | findlay | yes, exactly |
| 22:09.25 | findlay | anyone here use kphone? |
| 22:09.37 | tensai | once or twice |
| 22:09.47 | hans | findlay: not if I can help it |
| 22:09.56 | hans | ~lament softphones |
| 22:10.07 | hans | ~lart da bot |
| 22:10.43 | findlay | and there are no other open source SIP phones out there that I know of |
| 22:11.14 | *** join/#utah jce (jce@192.41.88.101) |
| 22:12.11 | findlay | hans: do you know of ther is any way I can test kphone, like make sure it interfaces correctly with the sound card, etc? |
| 22:13.25 | hans | findlay: in what way? |
| 22:15.03 | bucky | findlay, have you looked at http://siphon.sourceforge.net/ |
| 22:15.11 | findlay | well, I'm not sure how/if the audio I/O devices work with kphone, namely headphones, microphone |
| 22:15.51 | bucky | i use alsa with oss compatibility.. that covers all bases |
| 22:16.49 | bucky | 2001 on the last snap shot.. kind of old |
| 22:18.06 | bucky | http://sourceforge.net/projects/shtoom/ is more new - python based |
| 22:19.31 | tensai | findlay: if your headphones and microphone work with anything else they should be fine. just try out a simple sound recorder. |
| 22:19.32 | hans | findlay: assuming oss, because for some odd reason people still write to that interface, only one program can access the playback and record |
| 22:19.55 | hans | see if it works with audacity, which also uses oss |
| 22:19.58 | hans | if you can record and play with audacity, then kphone should work. |
| 22:20.21 | hans | you might need to fiddle with the mixer and get capture turned on for the mic and whatnot. I recommend gnome-volume-control. |
| 22:20.36 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (~emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:20.41 | bucky | sip phones can have trouble with nat and firewalls |
| 22:20.48 | hans | or alsamixer if you're one of these people who can't stand to have gnome or kde libraries and apps |
| 22:22.37 | findlay | I love them all so much it's hard to choose a camp |
| 22:24.52 | hans | findlay: that's why you should use fvwm |
| 22:25.52 | hans | none of this high-latency oss trash. we get enough latency from jitterbuffers and whatnot |
| 22:26.37 | findlay | does soft == SIP generally? |
| 22:26.56 | hans | and before you get to excited, none of this focus too much on the GUI stuff. it'll be real simple interface at first at least. |
| 22:27.04 | hans | findlay: depends on your voip provider |
| 22:27.16 | hans | the best out there seems to be IAX, which is the asterisk protocol |
| 22:28.54 | tensai | sip, iax or h.323 are the most common |
| 22:29.31 | findlay | well, it seems to work so far (I just dialed myself) |
| 22:30.18 | *** join/#utah jakea (~jakea@128.187.253.206) |
| 22:33.52 | Maquis | |lart deadlocks that won't go away |
| 22:41.06 | findlay | hans: does the microphone need to be really amplified, because the last few people I've called couldn't hear me, using either OSS or ALSA |
| 22:41.52 | hans | might need to turn on mic boost, and/or turn up the volume on the mic to the top |
| 22:42.03 | findlay | already did both |
| 22:42.04 | hans | they couldn't hear you at all, or very well? |
| 22:43.34 | findlay | I don't think they could hear me at all, plus they're probably getting really annoyed by now : |
| 22:43.57 | findlay | (: |
| 22:43.58 | hans | you can call any old number? |
| 22:44.29 | findlay | I've got an account with broadvoice, which bridges with PTSN |
| 22:44.45 | Maquis | findlay: you smile upside down |
| 22:44.45 | findlay | s/PTSN/PSTN |
| 22:44.49 | hans | does kphone do anything besides sip? |
| 22:44.52 | findlay | (-: |
| 22:44.58 | hans | if you can call iax, you could try calling my asterisk server |
| 22:45.01 | findlay | nope |
| 22:45.09 | findlay | neither does broadvoice |
| 22:45.13 | hans | but I don't feel like configuring asterisk to do sip right now. |
| 22:45.41 | findlay | (: |
| 22:45.47 | findlay | Maquis: it's left handed |
| 22:45.49 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (~flyboy@69.20.57.22) |
| 22:47.23 | Maquis | ah... |
| 22:47.27 | Maquis | ok... question for people |
| 22:47.32 | Maquis | i've got some code that's mutexed |
| 22:47.44 | Maquis | but if i uncomment a SWAP, it's deadlocking |
| 22:47.55 | Maquis | and it shouldn't be, right? |
| 22:48.05 | Maquis | and why is it that mutexing larger areas causes more deadlocks... |
| 22:48.53 | Maquis | ?????????? |
| 22:49.00 | hans | what are you talking about? |
| 22:49.13 | Maquis | my cs345 project |
| 22:49.32 | Maquis | it's deadlocking, and i can't make it stop |
| 22:49.32 | hans | what's this SWAP thing? |
| 22:49.42 | findlay | Maquis: take the disk out and smash it with a hammer! Ahahaha! |
| 22:49.53 | findlay | or to save on postage |
| 22:49.53 | Maquis | we're doing good-guy swapping... but the TA has to be able to add SWAPs wherever they want |
| 22:50.03 | Maquis | findlay: not right now |
| 22:52.15 | findlay | OK, later |
| 22:52.30 | hans | deadlocks are caused when one bit has something the other wants, and vice versa |
| 22:52.32 | Maquis | fine... you can pick on me as much as you want when this is done |
| 22:52.41 | Maquis | hans: yeah... i get that.. |
| 22:52.50 | Maquis | and mutexes are supposed to be useful for solving them |
| 22:53.02 | hans | so the question to ask is what resources are they fighting over |
| 22:53.19 | Maquis | i don't know |
| 22:53.56 | hans | actually mutexes are one of the only "resources" they can get in deadlock over |
| 22:54.07 | hans | although the mutex usually represents a real resource. |
| 22:54.09 | findlay | hans: I need to set up asterisk to work with IAX, and IAXTel |
| 22:56.03 | hans | so mutexes don't help you avoid deadlock, they help you avoid stepping on eachother's toes. deadlock is definitely preferable since it's easier to debug |
| 22:56.13 | hans | but both are unsatisfactory results. :) |
| 22:58.37 | Maquis | ick |
| 23:00.42 | Maquis | is there a nice way to re-randomize rand()? |
| 23:00.57 | hans | srand |
| 23:01.24 | Maquis | sweet... |
| 23:01.25 | Maquis | thanks |
| 23:01.40 | hans | I don't need to say, man srand |
| 23:01.41 | hans | ;-) |
| 23:01.53 | Maquis | :) |
| 23:02.03 | Maquis | i manned it :) |
| 23:02.07 | hans | it's common to call srand with time(2) |
| 23:02.44 | Maquis | so, srand(time(2)); ? |
| 23:02.58 | Maquis | or srand(time())? |
| 23:03.08 | hans | e.g. I was referring to the time function documented in section two |
| 23:03.19 | hans | but now I'm not so sure if it was time or some other time-related function. |
| 23:03.20 | Maquis | yeah |
| 23:03.27 | Maquis | clock? |
| 23:03.27 | brigham | Sets system time from CMOS clock and vice versa.. URL: http://www.tahallah.demon.co.uk/programming/prog.html |
| 23:03.29 | hans | I have a hard time keeping the time functions straight. |
| 23:03.47 | hans | whatever one returns a unix time in seconds from the epoch. |
| 23:03.47 | *** join/#utah MScool (~MScool@c-24-10-167-74.client.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.21 | MScool | Any flash gurus out there that can answer a question about an attachMovie() error? |
| 23:05.55 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (~marc@208.186.182.173) |
| 23:11.41 | tensai | srand(time(NULL)) |
| 23:12.01 | *** part/#utah MScool (~MScool@c-24-10-167-74.client.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.02 | Maquis | tensai: thanks |
| 23:32.22 | hans | maybe MS stands for Marzipan |
| 23:32.33 | jakea | hans: Usual questions for Monday discussions |
| 23:34.29 | hans | I liked it |
| 23:34.52 | hans | I like that they're attacking something as far reaching as klingon foreheads. evens ds9 didn't do that |
| 23:35.13 | hans | and not a bad start at an explanation, either |
| 23:35.22 | jakea | now all the nitpickers that can't accept that TOS in the 60's had a tiny tiny budget can have a reason to stop complaining |
| 23:35.31 | jakea | ;) |
| 23:35.53 | jakea | ya, DS9 kinda..... avoided the topic by not discussing it with outsiders |
| 23:36.02 | findlay | hans: does readonly/writeonly in OSS represent speaker/microphone respectively? |
| 23:36.12 | hans | yeah |
| 23:36.25 | findlay | if so what are the corresponding device names? |
| 23:36.29 | hans | just /dev/dsp |
| 23:36.53 | findlay | OK, then this still doesn't work |
| 23:37.04 | jakea | hans: I'm excited to see how they end this, supposed to be a two-parter |
| 23:37.20 | hans | me too. do we know anything from previous seasons about the british guy? |
| 23:37.29 | jakea | nope |
| 23:37.43 | jakea | first time anything has been suggested about his... past |
| 23:37.43 | hans | whose name escapes me, and his employ by the other dude. |
| 23:37.59 | hans | guess we know nothing about the other dude either then. |
| 23:38.27 | jakea | out of all the characters, he is the logical one to have been a part of Section 31, or this old version of it |
| 23:38.52 | jakea | nope nothing is known about the other dude aside from what we learned on Friday |
| 23:47.31 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@67.137.25.66) |
| 23:48.09 | Maquis | hans: quick vim question |
| 23:48.31 | Maquis | if i copy something into a buffer using "1, how do i paste it out of that buffer? |
| 23:48.49 | tensai | apparently my shredder doesn't quite handle a cd. makes some cool marks on the disc though. |
| 23:50.46 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:52.44 | hans | "p |