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| 16:53.07 | ninnypants | $rlart |
| 16:53.07 | tobcri | whips out a shotgun, trudges over to littleSkinner, and goes postal. |
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| 17:51.19 | carmony | Good morning :) |
| 17:52.14 | *** topic/#UPHPU by carmony -> June Meeting: ReactPHP by Steve Meyers | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
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| 18:10.28 | TodPunk | carmony: still at Needle? |
| 18:10.37 | carmony | yup |
| 18:10.40 | carmony | trying to update the site |
| 18:10.45 | carmony | I broke sculpin somehow :P |
| 18:11.21 | TodPunk | carmony: you should get a web dev to make something more robust >.> |
| 18:11.32 | TodPunk | (oh yeah, I went there, or something) |
| 18:14.19 | carmony | lol |
| 18:14.22 | carmony | ~lart TodPunk |
| 18:14.22 | infobot | rm -rf's TodPunk |
| 18:14.27 | carmony | ouch |
| 18:14.47 | TodPunk | I'm meeeeellllllttttiiiiinnnnnggggggggg........ |
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| 18:42.13 | TodPunk | *shakes fist at carmony* Now I want stroupwafels! |
| 18:42.20 | carmony | haha |
| 18:42.23 | carmony | they're awesome |
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| 18:42.33 | carmony | I'll see if I can buy a bunch and bring them to a UPHPU meetup |
| 18:45.38 | TodPunk | They just need to sell them at Target |
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| 19:12.46 | TodPunk | So, if I'm writing a new PHP application (I'm not, I'm just tinkering), and I DON'T want to use Apache, and I DO want to use HHVM with Nginx on the front end, does that just sound crazy or does nobody even know what I'm talking about? |
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| 19:17.46 | carmony | TodPunk: If you're starting from scratch that sounds pretty sane :) |
| 19:18.02 | TodPunk | if you're NOT starting from scratch, nothing is sane =cP |
| 19:19.21 | fungus | If you are starting from scratch and are willing to consider alternative application servers (like HHVM). It is crazy to consider PHP IMHO. |
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| 19:22.07 | fungus | At this point it seems that computer science has thoroughly pronounced PHP as a defective tool. So using any defective tool can only be considered acceptable if it is required by external reasons. |
| 19:22.58 | fungus | Examples: Legacy code, limitations on deployment options, poor programmers that haven't discovered less broken tools. |
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| 19:24.31 | SunSparc | UPHPU goals: Entice PHP users to visit, then proselytize them away from PHP. ;) |
| 19:25.11 | SunSparc | ~uphpu |
| 19:25.11 | infobot | [uphpu] Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org Blootbot's favorite channel.. Utah Potato and Ham Producers Union, or a channel for rehabilitating programmers who have used PHP in the past |
| 19:25.56 | SunSparc | UPHPU: Used to be a PHP User |
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| 19:28.57 | TodPunk | fungus: there's a number of reasons to consider PHP in a new project, mostly for integrating libraries and tinkering with prototyping something for a legacy codebase. The tools just make PHP less crap, I think. |
| 19:30.52 | SunSparc | I don't know, I think it is kinda fun to be able to say that I used to write apps in PHP. :) |
| 19:31.13 | SunSparc | You know, been there, done that, seen the light, moved on... |
| 19:31.20 | TodPunk | yes |
| 19:31.52 | TodPunk | I'm just not willing to say "Never again" anymore. I'll never write Ruby. I can't say the same about PHP. Especially looking at jobs. |
| 19:32.28 | SunSparc | Yeah, best to be flexible. Who knows, you could take a PHP gig and convert them to a Python shop. |
| 19:32.53 | fungus | Saying "Never again" would only hurt you. It's limiting. Sometimes you may have to resort to PHP due to external forces, like both of us mentioned. |
| 19:33.34 | SunSparc | I still have legacy PHP projects that I work on. So it is not like I never work in it anymore. |
| 19:34.03 | SunSparc | Though when picking a programming language to let my kids cut their teeth on, I usually do not consider PHP. |
| 19:34.08 | fungus | Exactly. There are reasons to use PHP |
| 19:34.39 | SunSparc | Haha, here is one: Programmers Hate PHP |
| 19:34.39 | fungus | Except they should not be reasons based on factors controlled by you. |
| 19:35.05 | SunSparc | Yep |
| 19:36.24 | fungus | I've created several apps that use PHP, mostly due to my limited options of appserver. Usually restricted to Apache+mod_php. It's so easy it's hard to say no. |
| 19:38.11 | TodPunk | Personally my stuff is mostly being written in Python and Java these days, but I want to give Go a try. Has some reasoning to it. |
| 19:38.28 | TodPunk | I just can't get rid of my PHP stuff yet. |
| 19:38.37 | TodPunk | SO many shops are using PHP |
| 19:38.48 | TodPunk | (those two statements are unrelated) |
| 19:38.50 | fungus | Go is pretty fun. some neat concepts there. |
| 19:40.08 | fungus | But it is not a dynamic language, and requires a bit more work than P* languages and the like do. |
| 19:40.57 | TodPunk | I don't like plangs |
| 19:41.05 | TodPunk | as far as languages |
| 19:41.30 | TodPunk | what I DO like, is their usefulness to prototype something experimental quickly |
| 19:42.34 | fungus | I do like python, expressive, specific, clear, fast, and powerful. |
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| 19:43.56 | fungus | ruby is ok, but seems to leave to much room to hang oneself. Eg. 1.day.ago |
| 19:44.28 | herlo | fungus: that was one of my favorite idioms from ruby, btw. |
| 19:44.41 | herlo | I loved doing things like for loops with 5.times in them. :) |
| 19:45.10 | fungus | i *hate* those. |
| 19:46.19 | herlo | :) |
| 19:52.06 | carmony | SunSparc: you still digging Go? |
| 19:53.30 | SunSparc | carmony: Yep, using it right now actually. |
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| 19:54.59 | carmony | SunSparc: You should come give a talk about Go at UPHPU |
| 19:55.23 | SunSparc | Hmm... |
| 19:55.46 | SunSparc | I will consider it. |
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| 19:56.31 | carmony | July and August are open for speakers :) |
| 19:56.40 | carmony | fungus: anything you want to come and speak on? :D |
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| 19:59.02 | carmony | oh come on |
| 19:59.11 | carmony | there has to be some awesome sysadmin-y stuff |
| 19:59.18 | carmony | we could all benefit from :) |
| 19:59.34 | fungus | I doubt uphpu wants to hear about any of my current projects. |
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| 19:59.47 | carmony | we can turn it into more of an empathy group |
| 20:00.12 | carmony | "I can only imagine what it must feel like to migrate AWAY from Google Apps to Exchange." |
| 20:00.17 | SunSparc | It pretty much is. I dare say that most UPHPU members do more stuff without PHP than with it. |
| 20:00.29 | fungus | ZFS, L2TP VPN, Office365, etc |
| 20:00.30 | SunSparc | carmony: lol |
| 20:00.51 | fungus | SSL, DNS, LVM? |
| 20:01.04 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:01.06 | carmony | LVM! :D |
| 20:01.41 | SunSparc | Those are all interesting (minus Office365). ;) |
| 20:02.21 | fungus | I do have a fairly creative setup for a MySQL dev server that can spin up lightweight LVM snapshot clones for devs to use. |
| 20:03.04 | carmony | cool |
| 20:03.07 | SunSparc | That is cool. |
| 20:03.21 | SunSparc | In our shop we are using Vagrant for dev snapshots. |
| 20:03.36 | fungus | But that requires full data copies for each dev, right? |
| 20:03.37 | SunSparc | We have been playing with Docker recently too. |
| 20:03.50 | SunSparc | fungus: Yes, of course. |
| 20:04.04 | SunSparc | You have partial snapshots? |
| 20:04.07 | fungus | We have a MySQL database at about 450GB, and having tons of clones was near impossible. |
| 20:04.22 | SunSparc | I should say so. |
| 20:04.52 | fungus | It's just one server that runs a mysql instance per LVM snapshot of a replicated slave. |
| 20:05.10 | SunSparc | Clever |
| 20:05.32 | fungus | it works pretty well, so each dev can have a nightly copy of the live db to do their testing from. |
| 20:05.53 | SunSparc | A full copy or a filtered set, I assume. |
| 20:06.06 | fungus | full copy. LVM snapshot |
| 20:06.20 | SunSparc | Very nice. |
| 20:06.28 | fungus | so it only takes up as much space as they actually change from the original. |
| 20:07.21 | SunSparc | Basically a diff. Sounds like a similar concept to Docker, at least at a basic level. |
| 20:07.23 | fungus | which sometimes is a ton if they are testing some major schema changes. But usually is very little. |
| 20:07.47 | SunSparc | Yeah, but then they can nuke it when they are done. That is handy. |
| 20:07.54 | fungus | yup. |
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| 20:09.36 | fungus | a couple years ago our previous method of doing full copies to separate servers was falling apart when the database was reaching about 200GB |
| 20:10.23 | SunSparc | Yeah, that is a lot of data to be moving around. |
| 20:11.07 | fungus | But it wouldn't be all that interesting for a uphpu topic. |
| 20:11.45 | SunSparc | Heh, I dunno, considering some of the topic we frequently have in this channel... |
| 20:11.49 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:12.39 | SunSparc | Seems like meetings are just more formalized versions of the chat room. We hang out and talk about stuff we are interested in and call it a meeting. |
| 20:13.53 | SunSparc | Found a nice little race condition. |
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| 20:23.39 | mgeary | SunSparc: what are you using Go for? |
| 20:23.55 | mgeary | or is that in the chat history? |
| 20:24.25 | mgeary | i went to a Go preso at OpenWest and given that we do server-side web apps, couldn’t find a justification for trying to use it |
| 20:24.54 | SunSparc | No, it is not. My company is rewriting all of our services into Go. Currently the live stuff is all done in C#/.net. |
| 20:25.25 | SunSparc | All of our stuff is API based. |
| 20:25.55 | SunSparc | Though I do have a web app written in Go that I am hoping to deploy soon. |
| 20:27.17 | SunSparc | I am currently building an app that converts USPS address to geocoded coordinates. |
| 20:28.19 | SunSparc | I have some other web projects that are currently in PHP that I am considering rewriting in Go. |
| 20:31.23 | mgeary | and you feel that’s been better than python/django? I know you had been getting in to that a bit |
| 20:32.29 | SunSparc | There is still a soft spot in my heart for Python and I use it when I can, but that usually tends to be for devops applications. |
| 20:33.00 | SunSparc | There has recently been talks amidst our company about using Go for devops stuff as well. |
| 20:34.52 | fungus | SunSparc, how do you deploy your Go webapps? |
| 20:35.28 | fungus | do you use an appserver of some kind, or are you just using net/http directly? |
| 20:35.51 | fungus | any recommended frameworks, etc? |
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| 20:51.22 | clintberry | fungus: negroni for the win! |
| 20:51.27 | clintberry | we use it in production |
| 20:53.25 | fungus | Thx for the tip. Just looking for real world experience opinion. Was reading about Revel a bit earlier. |
| 20:55.19 | SunSparc | fungus: Martini is a popular framework that some of us have been using. Yes, most of the webapps we have released have been small and just use net/http, fronted by nginx. |
| 20:56.06 | SunSparc | No appservers for us so far. We rolled our own basically. |
| 20:57.15 | fungus | ok, thx for input. |
| 20:57.25 | SunSparc | :) |
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| 21:06.04 | TuxToaster | go(SunSparc) |
| 21:06.17 | TuxToaster | or is it more SunSparc.go(); :P |
| 21:06.40 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: The first one. :) |
| 21:06.48 | stderr | Golang++ |
| 21:06.59 | SunSparc | ^ |
| 21:09.05 | TuxToaster | the Gopher is a bit creepy, imo |
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| 21:10.11 | SunSparc | Haha! Yeah, I will agree with you there. |
| 21:10.53 | stderr | he's on my laptop and I love him |
| 21:11.02 | SunSparc | lol |
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| 21:13.27 | SunSparc | To be honest, I got a pink one at GopherCon and promptly gave it to my daughter when I got home. |
| 21:15.00 | stderr | didn't know they made pink ones |
| 21:15.04 | stderr | I just have the light blue one |
| 21:16.48 | SunSparc | I have seen them in blue, purple, and pink. |
| 21:26.55 | TodPunk | It's not right, but I can't look at the golang gopher and not think of this: http://pbfcomics.com/36/ |
| 21:30.15 | stderr | o_O |
| 21:41.01 | TodPunk | I told you it's not right. PBF comics isn't exactly reverant with ideas =c) |
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| 22:00.18 | SunSparc | USA vs Ghana starting now, productivity stopping now. :) |
| 22:04.23 | herlo | heh |
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