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| 15:40.46 | mindjuju | is it still the case that if you want hot backup in mysql, you need innodb else it's warm backup at best for myisam? |
| 15:45.26 | fungus | Depends on your definition of "warm". |
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| 15:46.13 | mindjuju | @ fungus, well, it looks like mysqlhotcopy tres to do hot backup, but it's not really hot |
| 15:46.16 | fungus | flush tables with read lock; followed by an LVM snapshot and an unlock tables; is pretty hot IMHO. |
| 15:47.39 | mindjuju | really though, 3 of the tables is where 17GB is concentrated |
| 15:47.49 | fungus | Another option is to use a replicated slave and back that up. |
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| 15:49.19 | mindjuju | so my understanding on that fungus, is for the size of the database, we will see some downtime on the db |
| 15:49.47 | mindjuju | especially at 20GB |
| 15:49.52 | peno | "depends" |
| 15:49.58 | fungus | the downtime for the LVM snapshot is only that writes will be suspended for a few seconds. |
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| 15:52.07 | fungus | But the answer to your original question, yes. w/o innodb, you have to jump through some fancy hoops to backup a live MySQL database. |
| 15:53.26 | fungus | mindjuju, then do the replicated slave backup. |
| 15:53.27 | herlo | lol |
| 15:53.28 | peno | mindjuju: have you looked at the percona toolkit |
| 15:53.46 | mindjuju | peno, haven't looked at percona toolkit |
| 15:54.15 | herlo | mindjuju: I highly recommend replication also. |
| 15:54.36 | peno | +1 for replication |
| 15:54.58 | mindjuju | hmmm, k, here's what i'm going to do |
| 15:55.30 | mindjuju | i'll suggest 2 ideas: 1. replication , 2. switch to innodb -- the replication will cost $$ but is the best answer |
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| 15:55.46 | mindjuju | if they shoot that down on a money concern, that's them, i gave them the option |
| 15:55.57 | fungus | How does it cost money? |
| 15:56.10 | mindjuju | i need another mysql server somewhere to replicate |
| 15:56.23 | peno | virtualize! |
| 15:56.29 | fungus | virtualize |
| 15:56.32 | herlo | fungus: slave replication would require another machine. I'm guessing he doesn't have a set of vms lying around. |
| 15:56.44 | mindjuju | yar :( |
| 15:57.06 | mindjuju | i love my job, don't get me wrong, but I had to write an essay on why RAID batteries were important to replace |
| 15:57.34 | herlo | mindjuju: that's probably what you should sell them on next. Something like openstack or libvirt on a simple lvm backed device also provides another layer of protection from single point of failures. |
| 15:57.35 | mgeary | hey, stderr-, you deploy a lot of ruby, right? I'm having some issues with a redmine (RoR) installation... |
| 15:58.09 | mindjuju | so wait though, to replicate it has to be local or somewhat local, doesn't it? |
| 15:58.34 | stderr- | mgeary: what's going on? |
| 15:58.36 | fungus | no it doesn't need to be local. |
| 15:58.42 | mindjuju | if the slave is here then isn't there a delay? |
| 15:58.45 | peno | just needs packets |
| 15:59.43 | mgeary | stderr-: it's on a pretty lean machine that only runs a nagios instance and redmine for our internal project tracking. One of our devs has started using a redmine client (rmclient.org), and suddenly we go from 1 instance of ruby1.8 to 7, all reportedly taking 25% of available RAM |
| 15:59.48 | herlo | fungus: I do actually prefer something like netapp backed vm's so you can more easily replicate them across more machines, but yeah. |
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| 16:00.25 | mgeary | we've updated redmine and the client to latest versions, and it's still happening. Wondering if i can configure apache/passenger to not let this happen |
| 16:00.43 | fungus | mindjuju, delay isn't something you need to worry much about for backups. |
| 16:01.07 | stderr- | mgeary: passenger_max_pool_size |
| 16:01.21 | stderr- | http://blog.phusion.nl/2013/03/12/tuning-phusion-passengers-concurrency-settings/ |
| 16:01.50 | mindjuju | fungus, i'm going to read up more on replication and then come back with more questions later |
| 16:01.52 | mgeary | where does that config file live? |
| 16:01.59 | mindjuju | thx all herlo, fungus, peno |
| 16:02.23 | stderr- | you can modify those settings in the Apache config file |
| 16:02.40 | fungus | mindjuju, But start researching your essay on virtualization. It's the future. |
| 16:02.41 | mgeary | add that to the <VirtualHost> block? |
| 16:02.54 | herlo | fungus: and the present. :) |
| 16:03.00 | fungus | :) |
| 16:03.53 | stderr- | mgeary: I'd just put it right underneath the LoadModule which loads passenger |
| 16:04.05 | stderr- | PassengerMaxPoolSize <# of processes you want to limit to> |
| 16:06.41 | mgeary | hmm. set it to 2, and i'm still getting 7 |
| 16:07.35 | stderr- | pastebin your ps results |
| 16:08.08 | mgeary | http://pastebin.com/qpZae0Zw |
| 16:08.44 | mgeary | if anything, that change made things worse. CPU is now reporting heavy load |
| 16:09.12 | mgeary | but that might not be cause/effect |
| 16:10.22 | stderr- | look at the time of the Rack/redmine instances |
| 16:13.36 | mgeary | not understanding the significance there... |
| 16:14.54 | stderr- | compare them to the time of the passenger processes |
| 16:22.53 | mgeary | sorry. still not understanding that significance :/ |
| 16:23.31 | stderr- | started prior to the passenger processes |
| 16:23.36 | stderr- | shutdown apache/passenger |
| 16:23.37 | mgeary | i see 4 passenger instances of various sorts. Their times are between 0 and :13. The redmine instances are between :06 and :11 |
| 16:23.55 | stderr- | make sure there are no orphan processes |
| 16:23.59 | stderr- | if there are kill them |
| 16:24.07 | stderr- | then restart apache/passenger and you should be fine |
| 16:29.15 | mgeary | well, i set PassengerMaxPoolSize to 2, and i AM seeing a difference. I'm now seeing 4 processes, rather than 7 |
| 16:31.15 | stderr- | 4 app processes or 4 total passenger-related processes? |
| 16:31.50 | stderr- | you should have two processes that say "Rack: /usr/share/redmine" |
| 16:32.05 | stderr- | just like you had 6 in your pastebin (6 is the default pool size) |
| 16:32.11 | mgeary | 4 entries in "top", so yeah, i guess those are maybe threads… "ps" just shows 1 (now that i've changed the pool to 1) |
| 16:32.18 | mgeary | can i limit threads, too? |
| 16:32.59 | mgeary | well, in any case, i appear to be in a more sustainable place now. Many thanks |
| 16:33.01 | stderr- | I mean sure you can limit Apache workers too |
| 16:33.15 | stderr- | np |
| 16:33.43 | stderr- | I've never looked at the Redmine code but I can only imagine how bad it is. |
| 16:34.00 | stderr- | and the Redmine client doesn't sound very efficient either |
| 16:34.09 | mgeary | starting to wonder myself, but yeah, the real problem seems to be this client |
| 16:34.18 | mgeary | may have to kibosh it, but i wanted to try this first |
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| 16:50.09 | SunSparc | I got some Keybase.io invites. beandog wants one. Anyone else? |
| 16:54.32 | beandog | wow their entire service is oss |
| 16:54.37 | beandog | crazee |
| 16:55.27 | SunSparc | Yeah, definitely interesting. |
| 16:55.59 | beandog | I imagine it's actually a pretty simple process they're running. |
| 16:56.06 | beandog | good implementation though |
| 16:56.18 | SunSparc | Their offering has gotten some mixed reviews. But if nothing else, hopefully it helps move encryption closer to being more widely adopted and easier to use. |
| 16:57.49 | beandog | SunSparc: which is what is *really* needed |
| 16:58.12 | SunSparc | Agreed. |
| 16:58.36 | SunSparc | GPG/PGP is already available and has been used for many years. That is not the issue. |
| 16:58.42 | beandog | SunSparc: read this yesterday, loved it: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/03/the_continuing_.html |
| 16:58.50 | beandog | "Google could change that. It could encrypt your e-mail so only you could decrypt and read it. It could provide for secure voice and video so no one outside the conversations could eavesdrop. |
| 16:58.55 | beandog | It doesn't. And neither does Microsoft, Facebook, Yahoo, Apple, or any of the others. |
| 16:59.05 | beandog | Why not? They don't partly because they want to keep the ability to eavesdrop on your conversations. Surveillance is still the business model of the Internet, and every one of those companies wants access to your communications and your metadata. Your private thoughts and conversations are the product they sell to their customers." |
| 16:59.07 | beandog | love that. |
| 16:59.32 | SunSparc | Yeah, I read that also. |
| 16:59.36 | beandog | :) |
| 16:59.50 | beandog | I haven't used GPG *lately* |
| 16:59.57 | beandog | but everytime I do, I wish it was simpler to use. |
| 17:00.07 | beandog | er, implement |
| 17:00.36 | beandog | Gentoo has an option for dev commits to the tree to be gpg-signed |
| 17:00.43 | beandog | That's why I wanna get mine setup again |
| 17:00.45 | SunSparc | Yeah, it can be a bit hairy. |
| 17:00.57 | beandog | I should do that right now |
| 17:01.11 | SunSparc | ~motivate beandog |
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