IRC log for #uphpu on 20140325

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16:50.23carmonyI think this whole thread on
16:50.32carmonySchool Credibility
16:50.39carmonyhas helped me come to an epiphany
16:51.26jsmithcarmony: Which is?!?
16:51.48jsmithcarmony: That you're going to "pay" for your education, one way or another?
16:52.14jsmithcarmony: That you want to be a professor?
16:53.19carmonylol
16:54.04carmonyThere are things you do to help "set" expectations: degrees, work experience, blog posts, interships, etc
16:54.16carmonywhich has value
16:54.43carmonythen when you interview, its all about meeting and hopefully exceeding those expectations
16:55.30carmonya school & degree helps with those two things by first, the piece of paper (setting expectations)
16:55.43carmonyand the knowledge you gain (meeting expectations)
16:56.14carmonyit is possible to go to school and walk away with only one of those
16:56.33shanemhansenJust found out another one of my talks got accepted for openwest.
16:57.12carmonydon't' graduate but learn a lot? The knowledge helps meet expectations, but you won't set them as well
17:06.58carmonyjsmith: that was my epiphany :P
17:08.17jsmithcarmony: :-)
17:10.26shanemhansenI simultaneously wish I had gone to more school and am extremely disappointed with the average person who has gone to more school.
17:11.31shanemhansenThis confused me for a while until I realize that someone who's "average" is probably not going to meet my expectations.
17:13.23shanemhansenFor example, the number of people with advanced degrees who are "experts" at something like java but can't answer a basic question about the jvm is mind boggling.
17:14.13shanemhansenDitto with many phd's who love haskell but can't talk about memory.
17:14.37shanemhansenThen again most people without advanced degrees suck at those questions too, but advanced degrees do tend to set expectations higher.
17:20.08carmonyyeah
17:20.18carmonywell and the problem that universities face
17:21.44carmonyis the more and more their graduates perform poorer than their "self-taught" counterparts, a degree's value for setting higher expectations will deminish
17:22.34carmonywhich then brings about the issue "is a degree worth it?"
17:23.36shanemhansenI think I'm going through the same thing lots of americans are.
17:23.48shanemhansenI want my kids to go to college, so I want to set a good example.
17:23.55shanemhansenBut I wouldn't really get a degree for money.
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17:44.30beandogDexterTheDragon: pingeh
17:44.46DexterTheDragon~pong beandog
17:44.47infobotbeandog: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:44.51beandogcarmony: diminish
17:49.14carmonylol
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18:02.45jsmithcarmony: Don't let your schooling get in the way of your education?  Or vice-versa?
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19:03.49carmonyjsmith: something like that
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20:31.57ninnypants1http://whodoiblame.com/
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20:45.16beandogninnypants1: lol that rocks
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21:54.44HumanCellHa ... Wordpress is currently being used to bring down the big BitCoin mining pools ... http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/03/more-than-162000-legit-wordpress-sites-abused-in-powerful-ddos-attack/
21:55.47beandoglol
21:58.23fungusthat's a good thing.  Kill BitCoin now.
21:59.14HumanCellWell ... they have only know about it for 8 YEARS!  https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/4137
21:59.22beandoghttp://www.computerhistory.org/press/ms-source-code.html
22:00.14beandogpingbacks ... srsly
22:01.47beandoghttps://core.trac.wordpress.org/changeset/24870
22:01.48beandogso
22:01.51beandogit still fetches it ...
22:02.00beandogit just limits the size
22:09.52HumanCellstill crushing websites ...  :-)
22:11.01mgearyhey, so there are two (at least) CLI apps named "mail". One of them allows you to end/send the email by just having a line with a period. How do you end an email with the *other* cli app?
22:11.30beandogwhat's the other one?
22:11.40beandogalso, I just use echo / cat to send emails
22:11.48mgearybeandog: well, it's just "mail"
22:11.56beandogcat /tmp/long-love-letter | mail -s "my love for you" steve@gmail
22:12.35beandogmgeary: mail is usually a symlink (or binary) to whatever program installed it
22:12.38beandogbased on your system
22:12.45beandogit's gonna use the same syntax, though
22:13.46mgearyi'll just pipe
22:13.55mgearyi don't think i'm communicating well today
22:13.57beandogmgeary: please pipe responsibly
22:14.23beandogyour question was confusing to start with -_-
22:14.40beandogtwo cli apps named mail, what are the binary names?
22:14.43beandog*confused*
22:14.50mgearyclearly
22:15.00beandoganyway
22:15.10beandogpiping to /usr/bin/mail is the simple way to do things, imho
22:15.29mgearylooks like it's sendmail versus postfix
22:15.37beandogah
22:15.39mgearysendmail is evil
22:15.53beandogwell both programs are going to install 'sendmail' binary
22:15.55mgearybut i don't know that i'm allowed to replace it with postfix on this machin
22:16.06beandogevery smtp server on *nix is gonna install a sendmail binary
22:16.10beandogfor backwards compat
22:16.50beandogSo just because you have a sendmail binary doesn't mean you have sendmail installed.
22:16.57beandogit just means you have an SMTP server
22:17.05beandogyah .. that was kind of ... redundant
22:17.13beandogmgeary: what are you running on?
22:19.13mgearyUbuntu. not sure version
22:19.24beandogcat /etc/lsb-release
22:19.34mgeary10.04
22:19.39beandogor lsb_release -a
22:19.56mgearymy core issue is that i want to start getting cron output emails for processes run by a certain user
22:20.08mgearyso i've made an entry in /etc/aliases and run newaliases
22:20.19mgearythen i was going to send a test email to that user on the account
22:20.28beandogmgeary: you probably have postfix
22:20.40mgearynope. postfix isn't installed here
22:20.42mgearyalready checked
22:20.45beandogwell, poop.
22:20.50mgearyif it were i'd know what i was doing (more)
22:20.56beandoggotcha.
22:21.38beandogUm
22:21.48beandogIsn't there a way to set a variable in crontab to send email to that address?
22:22.13mgearyah, seems like it. never done that
22:22.28beandogask fungus, he knows all
22:22.32beandogI know there is one actually
22:22.38beandogcan't see it in the man pages immediately
22:22.40beandogbut I know there is
22:22.54shalkieMAILTO
22:22.56fungusMAILTO?
22:23.04beandogthere you go
22:23.05beandog:)
22:23.08beandogshalkie also knows all
22:23.37mgearyso how does that work? You do export MAILTO=foo; /path/to/cron/script ?
22:24.07beandogYou put it in your crontab
22:24.08beandogcrontab -e
22:24.11beandogMAILTO=foo
22:24.16beandogjust as an environment variable
22:24.25beandogor, if you're root
22:24.27beandogcrontab -eu user
22:26.23fungusmgeary, the "sendmail" binary is provided by your MTA (sendmail, postfix, qmail, ssmtp,etc)
22:26.46fungus"mail" can be provided by other packages (mailx, bsd-mail, etc)  
22:27.19fungusboth provide the ability to send mail to the locally installed MTA.
22:27.23mgearyyeah
22:27.29mgearythe latter is what i'm talking about
22:27.36fungusIt is the responsibility of the MTA to deliver the mail.
22:27.42mgearyone "mail" tells you to conclude your email with a line with only a period
22:27.48mgearythe other "mail" doesn't tell you how to conclude an email
22:27.51fungusThat's for interactive use
22:27.54mgearyyes
22:27.54beandogthis is what I'd do
22:27.58mgearythat was the basis of my email
22:28.06beandogwell, wait .. .actually my idea is bad
22:28.13fungus"mail" doesn't require a trailing dot when taking input from a pipe.
22:28.14mgearyi've solved my issue, but am still curious how to end an interactive cli mail
22:28.23mgearyyes, that's clear
22:28.24beandoglazy admin: for your crontab entry, just add 2>&1 | mail -s "output of cron job" foo@mail
22:28.52fungusSome versions of "mail" don't respond to a trailing dot, and instead wait for an EOF, which can be generated by using Ctrl-D
22:28.54beandogor ... use the environment var ... I guess ...
22:30.31fungusFYI, you should use "sendmail" when piping in an entire email, headers and all.  Use mail to pipe in just a body only.
22:32.55fungusmgeary, the behavior depends on what package is providing your "mail" command.  mailutils, bsd-mailx, heirloom-mailx, etc.
22:33.42fungusSome end with a ".", others require an EOF (Ctrl-d)
22:34.05beandogOutlook needs a CLI version
22:34.16beandogall it has to do is start, and then ignore all signal commands.
22:34.21fungusno, Outlook needs to DIAF
22:35.56fungus~outlook--
22:36.00fungus~exchange--
22:36.23beandog~karma outlook
22:36.23infobotoutlook has karma of -3
22:36.26beandog~karma exchange
22:36.26infobotexchange has karma of -7
22:36.35beandog~outlook
22:36.35infobotextra, extra, read all about it, outlook is a bad idea from M$, or better than evolution, but not as good as a well configured mutt, or aka Lookout, or known as Outhouse
22:39.14fungusRight now i'm suffering with Thunderbird over IMAP.  
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22:42.08beandogwe installed a bot here on our irc server that plays hangman
22:55.39SunSparcninnypants1: That whodoiblame site is pretty handy
22:56.30SunSparcinfobot: redirect blame to beandog
22:56.30infoboterror: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required)
22:56.36SunSparcdoh!
22:56.57beandogha ha
22:57.26SunSparcIt would be nice if it also went down to state, county, and city levels.
22:58.15beandogSunSparc: yah that's kind of what I was expecting
22:59.01beandog:T
23:10.28SunSparc~blame Obama
23:10.28infobotACTION blames Obama (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
23:28.35fungus~blame Mike Lee
23:28.35infobotACTION blames Mike Lee (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
23:29.41fungusHe has put Utah in the spotlight of ridicule along with Texas (Ted Cruz).  Really sad.
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