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| 18:12.32 | mgeary | ~rlart |
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| 19:49.32 | TuxToaster | ~8ball were you successful? |
| 19:49.32 | infobot | Yes. |
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| 21:18.00 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28831609&nid=148 |
| 21:26.09 | TuxToaster | $chuck-fact |
| 21:26.14 | TuxToaster | aww |
| 21:26.18 | TuxToaster | ~rlart |
| 21:26.18 | infobot | puts kendsnyder through a wood chipper |
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| 21:37.26 | jsmith | TuxToaster: Yay for more cajun food in Utah! |
| 21:37.33 | jsmith | TuxToaster: Now I'll feel more comfortable when I visit :-) |
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| 21:42.29 | TuxToaster | hehe |
| 21:43.35 | herlo | jsmith: our resident judge of cajun food |
| 21:43.54 | jsmith | herlo: Darn tootin' |
| 21:43.58 | herlo | lol |
| 21:48.42 | tierra | jsmith: both WordPress and wxWidgets were accepted into GSoC (announced today) |
| 21:49.01 | jsmith | tierra: w00t! More work for you, but that's great! |
| 21:49.05 | herlo | dear god, setting up ubuntu server by hand is *annoying* |
| 21:49.48 | herlo | just let me choose the partition structure, don't prompt me for *every* detail! :/ |
| 21:50.31 | tierra | yeah, I was likely planning on letting other WP contributors get the chance to mentor this year (since I did last year) anyway, but that never really mattered as any wx work is on my own time, not company time |
| 21:50.59 | tierra | I'm still jumping in to help score proposals though, and provide backup mentor time |
| 21:52.03 | tierra | https://i.cloudup.com/J80qmHS2OQ-2000x2000.png <- I'm org admin this year, heh |
| 21:56.23 | SunSparc | Anyone looking for a non-web programming job using Golang? |
| 21:57.19 | tierra | stderr- has been raving about Go quite a bit recently, and I just listened to a podcast on it the other day, and now I really want to jump in and play with it |
| 21:57.27 | tierra | (but no, I'm not looking for a new job) ;) |
| 21:58.31 | SunSparc | lol |
| 21:59.13 | SunSparc | It is a really fun language. And it is really popular. All the cool kids are using it. ;) |
| 21:59.51 | SunSparc | Gunna ask over in #utahpython... |
| 21:59.51 | shalkie | The popeyes in the airport (which delivers out of the airport) and lehi aren't enough? |
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| 22:00.04 | tierra | having a deep background in C++, it definitely appeals to me |
| 22:00.44 | eggyknap | All the cool kids were using MongoDB for a while, too, and look where it got them... |
| 22:00.54 | SunSparc | tierra: Yes, having that background it definitely would be appealing. |
| 22:01.15 | SunSparc | eggyknap: What do those cool kids know anyway... |
| 22:01.52 | eggyknap | precisely! The world belongs to curmudgeonly grouches who insist on doing everything in raw SQL... or 8088 assembler. Or something. |
| 22:01.55 | herlo | The default editor on ubuntu server is NANO! WTF? this is weird. |
| 22:01.57 | tierra | eggyknap: well, seems like MongoDB interest is still trending up at the same rate it has been for the last 3 years: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=mongodb |
| 22:02.11 | stderr- | there's nothing wrong with MongoDB. |
| 22:02.29 | SunSparc | herlo: Yes, that is unfortunate :) |
| 22:02.34 | eggyknap | Actually I've never used Mongo -- I'm just picking on it today because ... it sounded fun. |
| 22:02.49 | herlo | SunSparc: I've literally not touched ubuntu in 2 years. |
| 22:02.56 | herlo | This is scaring me. |
| 22:03.06 | stderr- | the problem comes from people using MongoDB like a relational database because that's all they're used to. |
| 22:03.29 | herlo | eggyknap: lol |
| 22:03.39 | SunSparc | herlo: Ubuntu is a super popular flavor of linux, so they probably feel the need to cater to the lowest common denomenator. |
| 22:03.49 | tierra | herlo: ubuntu server is typically much more stripped down on a default install than ubuntu desktop, and like more server distros, they never come with emacs or vim by default |
| 22:04.44 | eggyknap | I read a very postgres-centric blog recently where someone said "The most interesting thing people usually do with Mongo is migrate off of it". That was shortly after showing how the planned features for postgres 9.4 include essentially the only things pgsql was missing to make it do what Mongo does, plus real transactions |
| 22:04.57 | tierra | small base distro == great for cloud/cm and vagrant :) |
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| 22:06.24 | stderr- | eggyknap: a postgres-centric blog heavily favored Postgres? |
| 22:06.31 | stderr- | I'm shocked. |
| 22:06.37 | tierra | eggyknap: I have seen JS/JSON support in postgres, so yeah, that is funny to think about, but somehow I doubt setting up distributed DBs with postgres is as easy as partitioning any noSQL solutions |
| 22:07.07 | jsmith | tierra: Perhaps, but the speed improvements you get by using PostgreSQL are pretty amazing :-p |
| 22:07.08 | eggyknap | stderr-: Yeah, it didn't come as a surprise to me :) |
| 22:07.31 | jsmith | tierra: Even in pgsql 9.3 (plus a couple of patches), it was already 20% faster than Mongo |
| 22:07.45 | jsmith | tierra: and that was last summer at OSCon |
| 22:07.46 | TuxToaster | http://9gag.com/gag/aBKGyLN?ref=9g.m |
| 22:08.17 | stderr- | jsmith: Speed is absolutely not the reason why I would choose MongoDB. |
| 22:08.19 | eggyknap | tierra: No, it's definitely not. Postgres people tend to be suspicious of noSQL distributed DBs, too. They interpret "eventually consistent, noSQL" as "We don't support decent transactional integrity, but we can promise that all our nodes will give the same answers to your queries. Eventually. Maybe." |
| 22:08.25 | eggyknap | ...and that doesn't strike many of them as particularly interesting. |
| 22:08.34 | herlo | tierra: vim is on the ubuntu server by default |
| 22:08.44 | TuxToaster | eggyknap: lol |
| 22:08.44 | herlo | I didn't choose to install it, only ssh |
| 22:08.49 | jsmith | stderr-: Sure... I don't disagree with you. |
| 22:08.58 | herlo | SunSparc: I concur with you, but that is sad. |
| 22:09.14 | jsmith | stderr-: I'm just saying -- it's interesting that noSQL folks still have some lessons to learn from the "old-school" relational DB folks |
| 22:09.18 | eggyknap | (FWIW, I tend to agree with that perspective, but I tend to care more about transactions and ACID than lots of developer types) |
| 22:10.04 | stderr- | Don't get me wrong, Postgres is the gold standard. We use it heavily here, and I love it. |
| 22:10.08 | jsmith | eggyknap: And now you're going to tell me you enforce your foreign keys too... |
| 22:10.28 | jsmith | eggyknap: ... and the though of materialized views make you giddy |
| 22:10.38 | stderr- | But there's certainly use cases for MongoDB, and the flame war between the two is usually propagated by someone who has used one heavily and not the other. |
| 22:11.00 | eggyknap | I haven't had much call for materialized views, but yes, All My Foreign Keys Is Enforced. |
| 22:11.08 | tierra | herlo: heh, guess SunSparc probably hit it on the nail... |
| 22:11.17 | eggyknap | stderr-: Are you saying I'm one of those people? (because you'd be exactly right!) |
| 22:11.18 | herlo | why does ubuntu feel like USA when they broke away from England? Most everything is similar, but the things that matter are so very different. |
| 22:11.49 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:11.59 | herlo | I mean, really, just use useradd, adduser muddies the waters. |
| 22:13.18 | herlo | tierra: why, it's too interactive and requires that I fill in unnecessary data |
| 22:13.23 | herlo | ? |
| 22:13.24 | TuxToaster | I've seen cases where people have symlinked them so that useradd and adduser both worked but both did the same thing |
| 22:13.27 | tierra | is it not that way in RHEL derivitives? I thought that was a posix thing |
| 22:13.42 | herlo | useradd user just adds the user and does the right thing |
| 22:13.48 | stderr- | eggyknap: Nah, just getting tired of the MongoDB trolling as the flamewar du jour for the past year. |
| 22:13.56 | stderr- | There are better things to make fun of now. |
| 22:13.59 | stderr- | Like Scala |
| 22:14.02 | eggyknap | heh |
| 22:14.07 | herlo | tierra: I can always use -C -s -d and so on to get what I want customized. |
| 22:14.23 | herlo | not sure why I need to be prompted to get the environment variables set up properly. |
| 22:14.37 | tierra | I don't think useradd was built to copy over skeleton files and some of the other stuff you can only do in one command with adduser |
| 22:15.13 | herlo | no |
| 22:15.16 | tierra | guess it does do skeleton dirs... you have to be explicit with it though? |
| 22:15.26 | herlo | useradd does /etc/skel just fine on RHEL/Fedora/CentOS and even debian |
| 22:15.41 | herlo | tierra: it's only an Ubuntu thing. |
| 22:16.00 | herlo | it feels like an island unto itself. |
| 22:16.48 | tierra | na, it's definitely in debian too |
| 22:17.05 | tierra | I do know it's not a Ubuntu-specific addition |
| 22:17.48 | herlo | no, I'm saying that useradd works properly in debian |
| 22:18.06 | herlo | I'm not arguing whether adduser is in deiban or not. In fact, I think it's in RHEL and such too. |
| 22:18.38 | stderr- | adduser is written in Perl, isn't it? |
| 22:18.51 | tierra | right, though this was always in the manpage for it in debian (and is why I always used the other): "useradd is a low level utility for adding users. On Debian, administrators should usually use adduser(8) instead." |
| 22:19.31 | tierra | maybe I'm the only one that read the manual for it? :P |
| 22:19.35 | tierra | hehe |
| 22:19.38 | herlo | the low level utility works though. That is all I say. Using it with switches gives you what you want and is non-interactive. Which makes things much better when performing automation. |
| 22:20.10 | herlo | maybe you can use adduser with switches, but it definitely means more work. |
| 22:20.14 | tierra | certainly, not denying that, just wanted to explorer why I had trained myself to always use adduser |
| 22:20.21 | herlo | :) |
| 22:20.21 | tierra | *explore |
| 22:20.24 | herlo | fair enough. |
| 22:21.13 | tierra | also worth noting that I don't use either often... like once every two years |
| 22:21.29 | herlo | hehe, true |
| 22:30.58 | ninnypants1 | josephscott: who have you been using to print badges for WordCamp? |
| 22:33.04 | tierra | wow, didn't realize PG was on a large downturn for the last few years... http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=mongodb%2C%20postgresql |
| 22:33.31 | tierra | already knew MySQL was taking a big hit |
| 22:34.26 | tierra | wonder what's filling the void... certainly mongodb and other nosql types are filling that |
| 22:34.36 | tierra | *are *not* filling that |
| 22:35.19 | tierra | maybe it's just a general interest in databases... http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=database |
| 22:35.45 | tierra | same trend on "SQL" |
| 22:35.52 | eggyknap | Postgres tends to make headlines only when a new release comes out... and that's awfully rarely |
| 22:39.56 | stderr- | that and I don't really trust Google Trends to begin with. |
| 22:40.16 | josephscott | ninnypants1: just kinkos/fedex, on heavy card stock |
| 22:40.36 | ninnypants1 | do they do all of the cutting for you? |
| 22:40.39 | josephscott | yes |
| 22:41.05 | ninnypants1 | not too bad of a price either correct? |
| 22:41.54 | mgeary | herlo, tierra, check this out: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/add-a-user-on-ubuntu-server/?showcomments=1#comments |
| 22:41.57 | mgeary | search for "geary" |
| 22:41.58 | josephscott | ninnypants1: yep |
| 22:42.57 | ninnypants1 | great thanks josephscott |
| 22:43.16 | mgeary | herlo, tierra and then go here and search for "Geary": http://hn.meteor.com/posts/7163818-71404 |
| 22:43.27 | stderr- | mgeary: You in 2008 sounds angry. |
| 22:44.10 | mgeary | stderr-: no way. That's me being super diplomatic |
| 22:44.17 | mgeary | constructive, even |
| 22:44.24 | herlo | lol |
| 22:44.27 | tierra | stderr-: you're probably right to not trust trends |
| 22:44.49 | mgeary | but it's a valid (i believe) commentary on things i don't like in the *nix world, and one reason i really like this group |
| 22:45.26 | stderr- | tierra: it's not bad for ballparking stuff but yea, I view it with suspicion. |
| 22:45.49 | tierra | http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=wxwidgets <- I have actual site analytics for that going back to 2007, and it's pretty flat and consistent for nearly 6 years |
| 22:45.52 | herlo | poor mgeary |
| 22:46.40 | stderr- | mgeary: Look, you're never going to convince me that purposefully being esoteric, with long, obtuse commands, to make myself and others feel smart isn't A Good Thing. |
| 22:47.01 | mgeary | heh. indeed |
| 22:49.02 | tierra | haha |
| 22:50.09 | tierra | mgeary: good to know I'm not the only one that caught that mention in the manpage |
| 22:51.41 | tierra | adduser really is harder to mess up |
| 22:52.06 | mgeary | my favorite part of the whole deal was the "D&%K H#$&D" comment |
| 22:52.35 | herlo | I saw that and laughed. |
| 22:52.36 | mgeary | i'd like to meet the 7th-grader who wrote that comment |
| 22:52.41 | stderr- | whatever you do, don't vim `which adduser` |
| 22:52.50 | stderr- | you don't want to see the man behind the curtain. |
| 22:54.52 | tierra | great, now I have to |
| 22:56.01 | tierra | meh... 1k lines of what looks like decently organized Perl code |
| 22:56.11 | tierra | it's certainly no cvs2cl.pl |
| 22:56.27 | stderr- | you're not even grokking the thing, how dare you |
| 23:00.19 | TuxToaster | heh |
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