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| 03:53.45 | carmony | I'm amazed at how sluggish a m1.small ec2 instance feels |
| 04:20.46 | ninnypan_ | carmony: did you ever install gitlab at ddm? |
| 04:20.58 | carmony | naw, we're using github |
| 04:21.44 | ninnypan_ | ok I remember talking about it at applebees wanted to know if you knew anything cool about it |
| 04:21.51 | ninnypan_ | I just got it set up on saturday |
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| 15:00.18 | undertakingyou | Good Morning |
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| 15:23.08 | josephscott | shanemhansen: any luck with your mariadb replication issue? |
| 15:23.42 | shanemhansen | josephscott, I haven't had time to try any more. For some reason my wife insisted I take the rest of columbus day off ; ). |
| 15:23.59 | shanemhansen | I'm going to try upgrading an existing snapshot of the mysql5.1 slave. |
| 15:24.04 | josephscott | people take columbus day off? |
| 15:25.10 | shanemhansen | She works for the state. |
| 15:25.16 | shanemhansen | They get all the days off. Lucky. |
| 15:25.18 | josephscott | ah |
| 15:25.34 | shanemhansen | I figured it was appropriate for me to "just go home" on columbus day anyways ; ). |
| 15:25.49 | shanemhansen | What else can I really do to "celebrate" it ; ). |
| 15:26.23 | josephscott | not may oceans to sail around in Utah |
| 15:26.28 | josephscott | s/may/many/ |
| 15:28.38 | unum | you can go sail in the big stinky lake |
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| 15:52.45 | ninnypants | supernovia: how was the DC trip? |
| 15:53.10 | supernovia | heyo ninnypants! It ended up being a Baltimore trip |
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| 15:53.47 | herlo | supernovia: it's the DC and Baltimore Loop :) |
| 15:53.51 | ninnypants | nothing open in DC? |
| 15:53.57 | herlo | You were only 45 minutes from DC. :D |
| 15:54.07 | herlo | Baltimore aquarium is nice. |
| 15:54.31 | supernovia | Well, we didn't have a car & figured with so many things closed in the walkable areas of DC, it was better to just stay in Baltimore and do stuff there. Like the aquarium :) |
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| 15:55.32 | herlo | supernovia: cool. Glad you enjoyed baltimore. |
| 15:55.39 | herlo | Their train system is pretty decent too |
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| 15:56.23 | ninnypants | supernovia: oh and I found out that the up band doesn't stand up to even the kiddie pool I thought it was at least resistant up to a meter or so but that's not the case |
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| 15:57.18 | supernovia | I thought their train system was totally indecent :( |
| 15:57.26 | herlo | supernovia: lol |
| 15:57.48 | supernovia | I couldn't buy tickets with a CC; had to buy a smartpass, which is fine, but it wouldn't let me specify the ammount |
| 15:57.57 | herlo | there's a commuter rail and light rail. The light rail is a bit challenging |
| 15:58.00 | supernovia | so .. I have three smart passes with extra credit on them. derp. |
| 15:58.01 | herlo | supernovia: that is weird. |
| 15:58.21 | herlo | supernovia: I had similar challenges with the BART in the San Francisco area |
| 15:58.28 | supernovia | I spent mo money on "cash only, no change" transportation .. urg. |
| 15:58.31 | herlo | though you could buy things with card |
| 15:58.36 | supernovia | Did you? bart was a snap for me. |
| 15:58.45 | herlo | well, the first time |
| 15:58.46 | supernovia | I do have extra credit left at bart but, who cares, I'll go back |
| 15:58.50 | herlo | that was over 10 years ago too |
| 15:59.12 | herlo | nowadays, it's much easier |
| 15:59.36 | supernovia | I love bart :) But yeah the metro was suckysauce. Had to get on an exact-change-only bus that took like, an hour from the airport in traffic, to get to the metro |
| 15:59.51 | herlo | there's a train at BWI |
| 16:00.03 | supernovia | and then overpaid to get where we needed to go |
| 16:00.10 | supernovia | yeah, dulles. I was nonplussed |
| 16:00.15 | herlo | lol, dulles sucks |
| 16:00.20 | herlo | it's in the middle of nowhwere |
| 16:00.23 | supernovia | yeah |
| 16:00.25 | herlo | and unless you have a car |
| 16:00.28 | herlo | no dice |
| 16:00.29 | supernovia | which we didn't. |
| 16:00.30 | supernovia | yeah. |
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| 16:00.39 | herlo | cabs would be way expensive from there |
| 16:00.50 | supernovia | yeah, they are. expensive to there, too |
| 16:01.30 | supernovia | and, the trains were shut down sunday for some dumb reason so while I thought we'd train in as far as we could and then make our way via bus or cab, I ended up having to get a driver anyway. |
| 16:02.20 | supernovia | so, I was kinda bummed about transportation options. We did end up staying in inner harbor though, close to everything, so we just walked everywhere or took the free circulator busses |
| 16:02.28 | herlo | that is cool |
| 16:02.35 | herlo | flying to BWI might have saved you money |
| 16:02.49 | supernovia | Yeah |
| 16:02.57 | herlo | even though the ticket is sometimes more |
| 16:02.59 | supernovia | Next time I will for sure. dulles sucked. |
| 16:03.06 | herlo | but there are direct flights to BWI on delta |
| 16:03.14 | herlo | 2 a day at least when I flew there a lot |
| 16:03.14 | supernovia | it was, and iirc I couldn't get the kids' tickets with my points to BWI |
| 16:03.23 | herlo | you can |
| 16:03.42 | herlo | it's just that companion tickets are harder to come by |
| 16:03.46 | supernovia | automattic paid for my ticket, I bought my kids with southwest points I had (since I don't like flying southwest but figured I should use them up now that I'm mostly delta) |
| 16:04.02 | herlo | yeah |
| 16:04.51 | herlo | I'm glad you guys had fun though. |
| 16:04.56 | herlo | Baltimore is a fun town. |
| 16:05.19 | supernovia | Yeah :) It was fun. I spent a lot more than I wanted to (various things came up) but whatever, it was an awesome experience |
| 16:05.20 | herlo | I spent most of my time in Columbia, about 30 minutes southwest. Near the NSA |
| 16:05.39 | supernovia | we were all inner harbor. saw the marathonners and the green bay packers |
| 16:05.51 | herlo | nice |
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| 16:19.45 | josephscott | didn't see this coming - http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/15/godaddy-buys-media-temple-to-build-up-its-business-with-web-professionals/ |
| 16:20.03 | josephscott | guess GoDaddy wants to start competing more with Endurance :-) |
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| 16:24.57 | tierra | heh, based on my experience with how often this happens, I predict a mass exodus coming up now even though it sounds like MT will continue operating in exactly the same way it has been |
| 16:26.59 | josephscott | does leave me to wonder if basically all hosting companies will end up just being arms of Endurance and GoDaddy |
| 16:27.01 | tierra | people tend to equate their quality of support and service with the parent brand regardless of how independent the child brand is |
| 16:27.51 | josephscott | well, if the MT site becomes a maze of upsell links during checkout then we'll know how separate it really is ;-) |
| 16:28.40 | mindjuju | webhosting provided by MJ will never sell out!! Never! with a ginormous server room of 15 x 5 (shared with a water heater and a now defunct chimmney) providing a round the year cooler than the rest of the house enviroment |
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| 16:31.20 | tierra | would be funny to see MT go add-on crazy, heh |
| 16:36.03 | carmony | when was the Chipotle Lunch? :D |
| 16:36.13 | mindjuju | last friday |
| 16:36.54 | *** topic/#UPHPU by carmony -> UPHPU Meeting: October 17th - Real-Time Data with Redis | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 16:38.53 | josephscott | carmony: was just going to ask you about the meeting this Thursday :-) |
| 16:44.30 | josephscott | who is presenting? |
| 16:44.36 | carmony | me :P |
| 16:44.48 | josephscott | been awhile since I'd looked at Redis stuff, good time to hit it up again |
| 16:44.54 | josephscott | :-) |
| 16:52.20 | peno | my family needs to stop having birthdays. |
| 16:52.42 | tierra | can't believe it's already time for UPHPU again |
| 16:53.04 | tierra | feels like the last meeting was just 2 weeks ago |
| 16:56.09 | carmony | I know |
| 16:57.56 | carmony | disk io on amazon is just... sooooo.... sloooooow.... |
| 17:11.08 | ninnypants | what're you running on it? |
| 17:11.32 | mindjuju | better question is what size are you running |
| 17:11.46 | mindjuju | the cheaper / smaller ones have slow IO, the more expensive ones are much quicker |
| 17:12.06 | herlo | if you want fast IO, use Digital Ocean |
| 17:12.16 | herlo | but it lacks other features AWS has |
| 17:12.42 | ninnypants | +1 to digital ocean |
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| 17:34.04 | ninnypants | provo/orem people do you have a mechanic you'd recommend? I need to have my brakes looked at |
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| 17:59.18 | mgeary | i'll look at your brakes |
| 17:59.30 | mgeary | and i'll say, "hmmm. those look like brakes" |
| 18:01.11 | ninnypants | mgeary: will that be followed by a reason for the one pad rubbing all the time? |
| 18:01.21 | mgeary | certainly not |
| 18:01.55 | ninnypants | hmm seems like it's still probably a good deal |
| 18:01.57 | mgeary | in reality, i'll probably be looking at your carburetor when i'm saying it's brakes |
| 18:02.10 | DexterTheDragon | but it will include a hefty bill |
| 18:04.26 | ninnypants | DexterTheDragon: I think I found the solution to my no FTP support in capistrano https://coderwall.com/p/m5kpuq |
| 18:05.10 | DexterTheDragon | ninnypants: that's pretty |
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| 18:47.27 | mindjuju | ryan mcgee of mcgee auto is pretty good |
| 18:47.32 | mindjuju | he's in orem |
| 18:48.56 | mindjuju | http://tinyurl.com/ly8584l |
| 18:49.15 | mindjuju | and in case you're wondering, i made it tiny because the google link was long and i was afraid herlo would ~tiny me |
| 18:49.45 | herlo | lol |
| 18:50.10 | herlo | mindjuju: I don't think it'd be easy to ~tiny you :D |
| 18:50.52 | mindjuju | how are you doing on your side of the interwebs herlo? |
| 18:51.08 | mindjuju | i guess the government shutdown hit close to home :( |
| 18:51.33 | mindjuju | i wonder if we can deduct 17% of our taxes since only 83% of the government is functioning |
| 18:51.37 | mindjuju | during this tiem, that is |
| 18:57.02 | UtahDave | ~tiny herlo |
| 19:00.32 | ninnypants | mindjuju: can't beat the mj seal of approval for a place |
| 19:01.15 | mindjuju | No seals were hurt in the making of that endorsement ;) |
| 19:03.09 | josephscott | haha |
| 19:04.16 | ninnypants | you don't make your seals out of seals? |
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| 19:19.21 | shanemhansen | josephscott, got it working. |
| 19:19.29 | shanemhansen | In a really, moronically, stupid way. |
| 19:19.35 | josephscott | shanemhansen: cool, what ended up being the issue? |
| 19:19.55 | shanemhansen | I upgraded a snapshot of our slave from 10.04 to 12.04 and then upgraded mysql from 5.5 to mariadb. |
| 19:19.58 | shanemhansen | I don't know. |
| 19:20.02 | shanemhansen | I just kept the same configuration. |
| 19:20.05 | shanemhansen | Also. |
| 19:20.17 | shanemhansen | I accidentally upgraded the "live" slave itself. because I'm an idiot. |
| 19:20.22 | shanemhansen | Luckily it worked perfectly. |
| 19:20.38 | shanemhansen | Also, no one really uses the slave it's more for DR and occasional reporting. |
| 19:21.01 | shanemhansen | dist-upgrade's are scary. This was one of the first I've had actually work. |
| 19:21.33 | josephscott | really? |
| 19:21.49 | josephscott | I've had pretty good look with upgrading ubuntu |
| 19:22.21 | shanemhansen | Actually the last upgrade I tried was a debian one. |
| 19:22.30 | shanemhansen | Would have thought it would be more stable actually. |
| 19:23.31 | shanemhansen | I don't know what happened to the servers. They were vms that just didn't come back up. |
| 19:23.57 | shanemhansen | Anyways it all ended well. |
| 19:25.40 | josephscott | well, that good to have a happy ending :-) |
| 19:26.01 | josephscott | s/that/that is/ |
| 19:26.27 | shanemhansen | agreed. |
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| 19:41.50 | SunSparc | Anyone know of a DNS provider that does not hijack? |
| 19:42.44 | DexterTheDragon | xmission |
| 19:43.02 | SunSparc | Oh, how did I not think of them first. |
| 19:43.07 | SunSparc | Of course they would not. |
| 19:43.19 | SunSparc | ~DexterTheDragon++ |
| 19:43.38 | tierra | Google |
| 19:44.14 | SunSparc | tierra: I have heard that Google has started hijacking, but I have not validated that for myself. |
| 19:44.38 | fungus | SunSparc, Bind |
| 19:45.46 | SunSparc | fungus: :) |
| 19:46.05 | SunSparc | ~bind fungus |
| 19:46.05 | infobot | ACTION wraps fungus up with 100 rolls of duct tape |
| 19:46.54 | fungus | ~bind++ |
| 19:47.09 | SunSparc | fungus: Ever use TinyDNS? |
| 19:48.17 | tierra | SunSparc: if that happens, it's not google, it could still be your ISP - *still* hijacking it: https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq#nxdomains |
| 19:48.20 | fungus | No, been using and loving bind for many years |
| 19:48.35 | SunSparc | tierra: Good point. |
| 19:49.33 | SunSparc | fungus: Understood. I used TinyDNS for more than a decade and loved it. But I have also used Bind and found it to be passable. |
| 19:49.55 | SunSparc | Obviously Bind is the more popular. |
| 19:50.05 | SunSparc | Then again, I preferred Betamax over VHS. |
| 19:50.14 | fungus | TinyDNS doesn't do TCP? WTF! |
| 19:50.37 | fungus | rejects zone-transfers |
| 19:51.01 | fungus | lame. |
| 19:51.08 | fungus | Not gonna use Tiny for production |
| 19:51.41 | SunSparc | DJB has some pretty strong opinions on how DNS should work. |
| 19:52.03 | SunSparc | He also think CNames are evil. |
| 19:52.18 | fungus | lol |
| 19:52.48 | fungus | Yeah, even more reason not to use it. Strong opinions against actual standards. Very bad path to tread. |
| 19:52.51 | SunSparc | But reading through his notes, he makes some pretty good sense on a lot of things. |
| 19:53.27 | SunSparc | Use the server for production for many years with no problems. |
| 19:53.33 | SunSparc | Used |
| 19:53.50 | herlo | mindjuju: gov't shutdown isn't a huge deal |
| 19:54.03 | herlo | for me, anyway. I can ignore the IRS for another week or two. |
| 19:54.13 | fungus | also the instructions for a second replicated is bull crap. DNS replication is common everyday usage. |
| 19:55.04 | fungus | Really? rsync for replication of DNS. That's asinine. |
| 19:55.19 | herlo | that seems strange |
| 19:55.34 | herlo | why would you do rsync replication for bind... |
| 19:55.53 | herlo | you'd need a secure transport protocol and that would make it pretty slow. |
| 19:57.29 | herlo | lol |
| 19:57.39 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 19:57.57 | TuxToaster | maybe carmony was abducted by aliens |
| 19:57.59 | fungus | I guess back in the old days of frequent security vulnerabilities in Bind, looking at TinyDNS might have been interesting. But those are long, long gone. |
| 19:58.09 | josephscott | HumanCell: I'm sure carmony did that just for you :-) |
| 19:58.19 | HumanCell | Oh ... it's because Carmony is speaking! |
| 19:58.23 | TuxToaster | fungus: yup, TinyDNS was attractive to me for a time for that exact reason |
| 19:58.30 | HumanCell | NOW he wants people to show up! |
| 19:58.32 | HumanCell | :-) |
| 19:58.32 | TuxToaster | that, and it felt less bloated |
| 19:58.46 | carmony | lol :P hey now... |
| 19:58.57 | fungus | But those days are many many years behind us. |
| 20:00.00 | TuxToaster | carmony: can we have a discussion on Fox News' new newsroom where they have 55" tablets that can show 4 tweets at a time? |
| 20:00.09 | TuxToaster | because that's totally relevant. :P |
| 20:00.12 | fungus | I'm not saying Bind is perfect, i'm just saying TinyDNS is garbage. |
| 20:00.35 | josephscott | strong opinions :-) |
| 20:00.40 | fungus | hehe |
| 20:01.01 | fungus | well, of course, i'm letting my emotions overrule me right now. :) |
| 20:01.56 | fungus | I've never been much of a fan of mr. DJB. |
| 20:02.37 | herlo | fungus: those times of constant security vulnerabilities are years in the past too. |
| 20:02.48 | herlo | and even then, it was better than most alternatives imo |
| 20:02.52 | fungus | exactly. |
| 20:02.57 | herlo | especially if you kept up on patches |
| 20:03.23 | fungus | eww, makes me remember qmail. |
| 20:03.26 | herlo | lol |
| 20:03.36 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:03.42 | herlo | but I've set it up |
| 20:03.44 | herlo | once |
| 20:03.47 | herlo | that was enough! |
| 20:03.55 | fungus | lol |
| 20:06.10 | josephscott | anyone still use qmail? I thought postfix pretty much took over, maybe some sendmail still around |
| 20:06.36 | fungus | I sure hope not. Sendmail was ugly and painful enough. |
| 20:06.46 | fungus | qmail was worse. |
| 20:09.24 | herlo | lol |
| 20:09.34 | herlo | sendmail is still strong |
| 20:10.02 | josephscott | is sendmail still m4 focused on config? |
| 20:10.50 | herlo | yes |
| 20:11.07 | herlo | lol, I love m4 macros compared to standard sendmail syntax |
| 20:12.43 | TuxToaster | ~rlart |
| 20:12.43 | infobot | shoots ponderability in the head |
| 20:15.42 | TuxToaster | josephscott: Hi. This is the qmail-send program at #uphpu. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message... |
| 20:15.56 | josephscott | haha |
| 20:16.31 | TuxToaster | I want to say Yahoo is one of the bigger ones still using it. I think AOL used some variant of it for relaying, but their email network is so messed up it's not even funny |
| 20:20.53 | mindjuju | ~apb shalkie |
| 20:20.53 | infobot | ACTION hires Beth to spray mace at shalkie |
| 20:21.24 | mindjuju | well, that was prolly more aggressive than i was thinking |
| 20:38.42 | mgeary | hey mindjuju |
| 20:38.45 | mgeary | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/google-fiber-now-explicitly-permits-home-servers/ |
| 21:06.38 | tierra | SunSparc: forgot about this in a tab, but some proof of DNS hijacking *even* with custom DNS servers: http://hackercodex.com/guide/how-to-stop-isp-dns-server-hijacking/ |
| 21:11.30 | mgeary | anyone here use EC2s a lot? |
| 21:11.59 | mgeary | i rarely have, and am trying to get in to a client's EC2. i'm logged in to their AWS console, and i can't even figure out how to see the public IP for a given instance... |
| 21:13.09 | tierra | they always have a public DNS address listed for each |
| 21:13.13 | mgeary | right |
| 21:13.24 | mgeary | oh, just do a dig on that... |
| 21:13.29 | tierra | heh, right |
| 21:14.09 | tierra | they aren't static IPs unless you've assigned them an Elastic IP |
| 21:17.13 | tierra | docs on that btw: http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using-instance-addressing.html#using-instance-addressing-common |
| 21:18.25 | mgeary | okay, so it's apparently not EC2, but rather Elastic Beanstalk |
| 21:18.49 | tierra | ah, well, I've never used Beanstalk |
| 21:18.53 | mgeary | me neither |
| 21:18.56 | mgeary | but this is weird |
| 21:19.16 | mgeary | dig them.elasticbeanstalk.com returns nothing in a terminal, but i can hit it in a browser |
| 21:20.27 | tierra | weird |
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| 21:44.08 | mindjuju | ~apb jsmith |
| 21:44.08 | infobot | ACTION hires baby Lyssa to spray mace at jsmith |
| 21:44.20 | mindjuju | always with th emace, i'll have to soften those up |
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| 21:52.10 | mindjuju | heya UtahDave |
| 21:52.12 | mindjuju | you around? |
| 21:52.50 | UtahDave | mindjuju: yep! |
| 21:53.06 | mindjuju | so UtahDave, i've got a small problem, need some guru level advice |
| 21:53.28 | mindjuju | our 888 number goes offline sometimes, i've tracked it to a carrier issue with our provider |
| 21:53.30 | UtahDave | Hm. Let me go find someone for you.... |
| 21:53.33 | UtahDave | lol j/k |
| 21:53.56 | mindjuju | i've requested we not route our calls through that carrier and they've bumped us from Verizon to L3 |
| 21:54.29 | mindjuju | now the other day, we had an issue around 1215a |
| 21:54.51 | mindjuju | where they (veracity) has suggested that l3 might have been running a maintenence that knocked us offline for about an hour |
| 21:54.57 | mindjuju | my question is this: |
| 21:56.10 | mindjuju | 1.does this seem normal? 2.is there a way to monitor our 888 number like on a nagios to test? the 888 seems to always work for landlines, but not cell phone, when the issue above occur |
| 21:56.32 | mindjuju | so testing would require cell phone, can verasity do this? |
| 21:57.29 | UtahDave | yeah, that does sound frustrating. |
| 21:58.26 | UtahDave | You know, I haven't really dealt with something like that before. I'm not sure how to help you with that, unfortunately. :( |
| 21:59.15 | mindjuju | hmm, that's ok |
| 21:59.30 | mindjuju | so let's back off a step from my exact situation and ask this: |
| 21:59.38 | UtahDave | k |
| 22:00.02 | mindjuju | in your experience, do routing issues usually happen 4x within a 45 day period? |
| 22:00.18 | mindjuju | i can't recall the last time it happened (before the start of the event window) |
| 22:00.41 | mindjuju | that is to say, within the last 45 days, we've had routing issues, before that, maybe 1x in the 4yrs i've been here |
| 22:05.05 | UtahDave | Yeah, that does seem kind of odd. Does that fall outside your sla? |
| 22:05.29 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 22:05.47 | mindjuju | i'm starting to wonder if i made a mistake with renewing with veracity |
| 22:08.31 | UtahDave | I've had a couple of clients use veracity and haven't really had any problems with them. But they weren't fantastic either. |
| 22:09.23 | mgeary | mindjuju: oh, man |
| 22:09.26 | carmony | UtahDave: you coming to UPHPU thursday? :P |
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| 22:09.46 | mgeary | i've had some support nightmares with Veracity |
| 22:14.35 | jsmith | mindjuju: You rang? |
| 22:17.13 | mindjuju | hi jsmith, what has been your experience with veracity? |
| 22:17.29 | fungus | mindjuju, at the same time of the outage on your toll-free number, you should test the actual DID that the toll-free number points to. This will identify if the problem is with your toll-free provider, or your local DID provider. |
| 22:17.31 | UtahDave | carmony: I'm planning on it. |
| 22:17.37 | carmony | sounds good :) |
| 22:17.38 | jsmith | mindjuju: Publicly, or privately? |
| 22:18.13 | josephscott | I think that says it all right there :-) |
| 22:28.01 | jsmith | josephscott: Why thank you -- that's the kindest thing I've heard all day |
| 22:28.13 | josephscott | :-) |
| 22:40.25 | carmony | Wow, so apparently Marshall our 11-month-old |
| 22:40.36 | carmony | somehow caused our Comcast DVR to reset |
| 22:41.05 | herlo | carmony: he's 11 months already? |
| 22:41.07 | herlo | Holy carp! |
| 22:41.10 | carmony | I know! |
| 22:41.15 | carmony | he turns 12-months on Friday! |
| 22:41.16 | herlo | dude! |
| 22:41.26 | herlo | I've not even seen this guy yet. What gives? |
| 22:41.42 | carmony | We need to do something sometime :) |
| 22:42.10 | herlo | apparently |
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| 23:09.01 | fungus | Ugh, Mike Lee is a total embarrassment. Why must he be from Utah? Makes us look bad. |
| 23:10.12 | fungus | I guess it could be worse, I could be from Texas (Cruz). ;) |
| 23:10.24 | DexterTheDragon | and is tarnishing Orrin Hatch's good name |
| 23:10.39 | fungus | lol, and that takes a whole lot to tarnish that. |
| 23:10.47 | jsmith | DexterTheDragon: Wow... |
| 23:11.17 | jsmith | DexterTheDragon: I'm wondering if we can get rid of both Orrin Hatch and Harry Reid -- kick them both out at once, as they cancel each other out :-p |
| 23:11.36 | jsmith | DexterTheDragon: No net loss, but a whole lot to gain :-) |
| 23:11.55 | fungus | jsmith, I disagree, we might get another Mike Lee type person. |
| 23:12.14 | jsmith | fungus: That's your problem. For me (as a non Utahn), it's a win! |
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| 23:30.30 | unum | if you think the senator of utah doesn't effect you, why would the senator of Nevada effect you |
| 23:30.37 | unum | and why would you care of orrin got replace |
| 23:31.03 | unum | I fail to see the concern of two relatively moderate candidates canceling each other, I'd like to eliminate a couple of extemists |
| 23:32.37 | fungus | unum, isn't it sad when we have to consider Hatch as a relative moderate? |