IRC log for #uphpu on 20130830

00:20.45*** join/#uphpu cro (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com)
01:17.18*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
01:17.18*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
01:51.54*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.133.98.20)
01:51.54*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ
02:32.38*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
02:32.38*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
02:39.17*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
02:39.17*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
02:44.32*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
02:44.32*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
02:56.41*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
02:56.41*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
03:17.36*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
03:17.37*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
03:41.55*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.133.98.20)
03:41.55*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ
03:43.08*** join/#uphpu kendsnyder (~kendsnyde@71-219-154-81.slkc.qwest.net)
03:43.09*** mode/#UPHPU [+v kendsnyder] by ChanServ
04:15.04*** join/#uphpu clintberry (~clintberr@24.40.88.175)
04:15.05*** mode/#UPHPU [+v clintberry] by ChanServ
04:29.24*** join/#uphpu HumanCell (~Humancell@c-76-103-232-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
07:42.55*** join/#uphpu tierra (tierra@ibaku.net)
08:01.00*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.133.98.20)
08:01.00*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ
09:16.35*** join/#uphpu shalkie (shalkie@theadamsresidence.net)
12:01.54*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.133.98.20)
12:01.54*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ
12:13.10*** join/#uphpu ryan_ (~ryan@72.52.97.167)
12:36.53*** join/#uphpu cro1 (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com)
12:41.57*** join/#uphpu supernovia (~Adium@208.64.91.46.static.utbb.net)
12:41.57*** mode/#UPHPU [+v supernovia] by ChanServ
13:04.32*** join/#uphpu cro1 (~Adium@207-135-129-4.ip.xmission.com)
13:05.28*** join/#uphpu kendsnyder (~kendsnyde@71-219-154-81.slkc.qwest.net)
13:05.28*** mode/#UPHPU [+v kendsnyder] by ChanServ
13:10.39*** join/#uphpu cro1 (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com)
13:11.00*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
13:11.04*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
13:23.13*** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap)
13:23.13*** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ
14:00.53*** join/#uphpu stevecoug (~stevecoug@oalug/member/stevecoug)
14:01.04*** mode/#UPHPU [+v stevecoug] by ChanServ
14:04.48*** join/#uphpu MikeHansenMe (~mike@c-67-166-121-53.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
14:11.38*** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap)
14:11.38*** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ
14:25.26*** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@proxy.iad.automattic.com)
14:42.50*** join/#uphpu opapo (~quassel@204.113.97.235)
14:42.50*** mode/#UPHPU [+v opapo] by ChanServ
14:45.14*** join/#uphpu UtahDave (~boucha@63.230.12.160)
14:45.14*** mode/#UPHPU [+o UtahDave] by ChanServ
14:45.58*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@67.136.112.81)
14:46.05*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
14:56.16*** join/#uphpu undertakingyou (~undertaki@50.8.75.63)
14:56.16*** mode/#UPHPU [+v undertakingyou] by ChanServ
15:01.28*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
15:01.28*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
15:16.00*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
15:16.04*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
15:22.53*** join/#uphpu wGEric (~wGEric@107.0.84.214)
15:22.53*** join/#uphpu wGEric (~wGEric@unaffiliated/wgeric)
15:28.09*** join/#uphpu macnewbold (~macnewbol@wfw.vivint.com)
15:28.09*** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ
15:30.55*** join/#uphpu mahelious (~mahelious@50-198-180-125-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
15:31.04*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mahelious] by ChanServ
15:32.51UtahDaveSo a friend of mine invited me to help beta test an android app that someone he knows is building
15:33.24UtahDaveI agreed to do that. I love playing with new software. I got a letter from someone at the company asking to sign an NDA.  Here's the redacted NDA.
15:33.25UtahDavehttps://www.dropbox.com/s/83z14zeaeksn73r/Crappy-NDA.pdf
15:33.50UtahDaveI told them this was a ridiculous NDA just to beta test an app.
15:34.17fungusسمَـَّوُوُحخ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ امارتيخ ̷̴̐خ
15:34.31UtahDaveThey replied that they "have 9 patents, with 3 or 4 more in development. Beta testers will have access to their 'IP' so they have to protect themselves."
15:34.58jsmithUtahDave: Without reading the redacted NDA you have there, in general I find that it's easy to push back on NDAs if you point to specific items you have a contention with, and possible remedies
15:35.22UtahDavejsmith: I did. I even gave a simpler alternate version that I would be willing to sign.  
15:35.45jsmithUtahDave: Many times NDAs are just boilerplate text, and aren't specific to a beta tester vs. a contractor, for example
15:35.46UtahDaveNope. "We have appointments to talk with Google and Samsung" bla bla bla
15:36.25UtahDavejsmith: I agree.  They wouldn't budge. It was sign that NDA or no access to their revolutionary android app.
15:38.49UtahDaveThat NDA is even completely at odds with my current employer's employee agreement.
15:39.08UtahDaveAnyway, I just thought that was pretty crazy
15:43.30*** join/#uphpu ponderability (~ponderabi@dongato.chpc.utah.edu)
15:44.12*** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@proxy.iad.automattic.com)
15:44.34josephscottwow, limechat just crashed on me
15:44.38josephscottnever had it do that before
15:45.47funguslol
15:45.52funguswanna see it happen again?
15:45.58fungusسمَـَّوُوُحخ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ امارتيخ ̷̴̐خ
15:46.27*** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@proxy.iad.automattic.com)
15:46.34funguslol, ok, i'm done.
15:47.08jsmithfungus: Whee....
15:47.13josephscottfungus: you using a crash inducing arabic nick?
15:47.15*** join/#uphpu undertakingyou (~undertaki@50.8.75.63)
15:47.15*** mode/#UPHPU [+v undertakingyou] by ChanServ
15:47.32jsmithjosephscott: Not a nick -- just a string
15:47.50fungushttp://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/08/rendering-bug-crashes-os-x-and-ios-apps-with-string-of-arabic-characters/
15:48.00josephscottyep, that is what I was referring to :-)
15:48.32josephscottinteresting that limechat only crashed when I switched to this channel, so receiving the string didn't cause a problem
15:48.47fungusright, it's the rendering
15:49.48josephscotttext encoding is a pain
15:50.10fungushehe, apparently
15:51.29josephscottwell, this is obviously a pain, but I mean just the general issue of text encoding, there is no joy there
15:53.42*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.219.204.99.provo.dynamic.broadweavenetworks.net)
15:53.42*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ
15:55.43*** join/#uphpu MikeHansenMe (~mike@c-67-166-121-53.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
16:04.01*** join/#uphpu stirlingw (~ezkl@155.100.168.247)
16:06.36stirlingwso... skiphp Jan 17-18th is super close to the ng-conf Jan 16-17th.
16:06.48stirlingwhttp://www.ng-conf.org/
16:17.57josephscottstirlingw: interesting, any of those guys local or did they just want to have a conf in SLC?
16:23.46TuxToasterjosephscott: I think one of the UtahJS guys organized it
16:23.54josephscottthat would make sense
16:32.17stirlingwI wanted to go to both. :/
16:33.39josephscottgenius or crazy? http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2013/08/bicycle-treehouse-elevator/
16:35.15stirlingwI'll say genius pully system
16:38.22ninnypantsUtahDave: so they own you but you get to play with a very special app? Seems like a fair trade
16:39.39UtahDaveninnypants: exactly. they own you and anything you've done in the past that might have something to do with their current business and any business they plan on doing in the future.
16:40.45ninnypantsUtahDave: yeah I've been asked to sign a few of those. Even left a company over them because they wouldn't change that section
16:44.16UtahDaveYeah, it's crazy.  I don't mind a lightweight NDA if we're actually doing business
16:48.33*** join/#uphpu tierra (tierra@ibaku.net)
16:49.19ninnypantsUtahDave: also needs to be targeted and specific in my opinion because the whole anything we do in the future is extremely broad since they could change industries or anything else really
16:50.26UtahDaveyep
16:50.48TuxToaster~rlart
16:50.48infobotslaps a compatible dib on utahcon's head
16:51.38TuxToasterUtahDave: who's that?
16:53.21UtahDaveA company that wanted some beta testers for their "revolutionary" android app
16:53.41*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
16:53.41*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
16:55.21josephscott~lart NDAs
16:55.21infobotsquishes NDAs like a bug
16:55.36TuxToasteroi
16:56.14TuxToasterwhen it comes to what you were describing above that's more of a non-compete+NDA+owntehnoobs monster
16:57.40TuxToasterI had someone try to get me to sign one of those once after I'd worked there for a couple of years, but it would have retroactively rights on assigned *any* development I did (both past and future) to him
16:57.46TuxToasterso needless to say I declined. :P
16:58.16josephscottTuxToaster: you are missing out on an opportunity :-)
16:58.38TuxToasterlol
16:58.52josephscottexplain that simple math will allow them to come up with a valid compensation number that would allow you to sign it
16:58.53ninnypantsTuxToaster: yeah you could of really gotten in on the ground floor
16:59.19josephscottexplain that in the future you expect your time to be worth more, say $1 million per year
16:59.22ninnypantstell them not to use + or * but ^
16:59.31josephscottyou expect to live another 70 years
16:59.46josephscottso $1 M * 70 years = $70 M
17:00.00josephscottand that you'll need that paid in full before signing the NDA
17:00.01ninnypantsalso make it retro active so it's more like 100M
17:00.06TuxToasterjosephscott: oh you know more of the story around that place. I was promised better pay (supposedly six figures) as part of it, though I agree, seven figures might have made me consider it
17:00.41josephscottfor someone who wants to own all of my output, they will need to pay up front
17:00.50TuxToasteryup yup
17:01.01josephscottmaking it an even $100 M sounds good, I like that ninnypants
17:01.39ninnypantsTuxToaster: you could say you want 10 figures because there's always the potential that you could come up with something worth more than that
17:01.41josephscottsince an NDA like that effectively removes all options for work in the future, I think $100 M is probably a bargain for them
17:02.03josephscottit is all in how you pitch it :-)
17:02.10josephscott$100 M today is a steal
17:02.37josephscottbecause the number goes up by $5 M each year they wait
17:02.43TuxToasterheh yup
17:02.52josephscottthink of it like angel and VC investing
17:03.01TuxToasterthough honestly I don't know that $100M would have really been worth being treated like crap.
17:03.06josephscottseed rounds get really low valuations, because the risk is still high
17:03.11ninnypantsheck google pays more than that per employee just to buy small teams of developers
17:03.14TuxToasterbut it might have taken the edge off.
17:03.29UtahDavelol  exactly josephscott and TuxToaster!
17:03.33josephscottlater round VCs have to pay more to get the same portion of the company, in part because the risk has decreased
17:04.02josephscottTuxToaster: with $100 M the power to quit any time you want makes things like that much easier
17:04.30josephscottif you can't survive off of $100 M for the rest of your life, then you need to learn basic budgeting skills
17:05.18josephscottfor $50 M I'll be happy to teach you those basic budgeting skills ;-)
17:05.35josephscotttime for an early lunch
17:06.58TuxToasterLOL
17:07.27TuxToasteryeah most places won't give you the power to quit any time if they're paying that kind of money. All about contracts then.
17:07.45josephscottah, another business opportunity
17:08.06josephscottif you want to include  year requirements in the contract, that will cost you more
17:08.14TuxToasterlol
17:08.25josephscottthey can either have no quit clauses and get the budget purchase of $100 M now
17:08.47josephscottor have quit clauses, that require another $15 M for each year they require you to stay
17:09.17josephscottany way, getting hungry, really do need that early lunch :-)
17:13.25ninnypantshttp://provopolicedepartment.blogspot.com/2013/08/scam-alert.html
17:16.28ninnypantsInteresting way of trying to hide from a scam, but if there is a person stealing card numbers and using them online I wouldn't think it'll be too hard to find them
17:18.11*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
17:18.11*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
17:22.59*** join/#uphpu ryan__ (~ryan@72.52.97.167)
17:23.39*** join/#uphpu NoCoolName_Tom (~NoCoolNam@64.124.34.34)
17:24.39*** join/#uphpu ponderability (~ponderabi@dongato.chpc.utah.edu)
17:34.42*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
17:34.42*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
17:38.48*** join/#uphpu opapo (~quassel@204.113.97.235)
17:38.48*** mode/#UPHPU [+v opapo] by ChanServ
17:50.07ninnypantsanyone that wanted a DAS Keyboard they're on woot right now for pretty cheap http://tech.woot.com/plus/das-keyboards
17:52.43*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
17:52.44*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
17:58.17*** join/#uphpu NoCoolName_Tom (~NoCoolNam@64.124.34.34)
18:04.17*** join/#uphpu cro (~Adium@207.225.223.176)
18:07.41*** join/#uphpu cro1 (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com)
18:10.34unumtempting
18:14.33*** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@proxy.iad.automattic.com)
18:18.08ninnypantsunum: I was thinking I might try the code keyboard http://codekeyboards.com/
18:19.57ninnypantsI really like my DAS though
18:22.33josephscottninnypants: I think there was a review of one of those today
18:22.42josephscottI think the summary was the guy didn't like it
18:24.10ninnypantsjosephscott: I saw one a yesterday where the guy was hating on it for using qwerty because all these old keyboards that certain languages where created on didn't actually use the qwerty they had funky layouts
18:24.39josephscottit has hardware dip switches for other keyboard layouts
18:25.21*** join/#uphpu ryan_ (~ryan@72.52.97.167)
18:38.19tierrajosephscott: doesn't look like my session description was added correctly
18:38.30josephscottoh?
18:38.31unummy unicomp has been working well for me
18:38.42josephscotthaha
18:38.46josephscottcopy and paste fail!
18:38.54josephscottI'll fix that right now
18:39.47josephscotttierra: better now? http://2013.slc.wordcamp.org/sessions/
18:40.36tierradid you click publish?
18:40.37tierraheh
18:41.22josephscottyes
18:41.37tierrastill showing the wrong description here
18:41.40josephscotthmmm, I wonder if they have caching going on
18:41.49tierrayeah, maybe
18:41.52josephscottyeah, just used an incognito window and saw the old one
18:42.14tierraalright, I'll trust you fixed it :)
18:44.15mindjujuwhen i pull up tierra 's preso, it still says Kickboxing and Wordpress : how to get a leg up
18:44.20mindjujuis that the corrected?
18:45.51mindjujuguess it wasn't funny :(
18:48.29josephscott~PUNish mindjuju
18:48.29infobotACTION forces mindjuju to install and use Windows
18:49.34mindjuju:)
18:49.54josephscotttierra: http://2013.slc.wordcamp.org/sessions/
18:49.54mindjujui know you like my presentation title, I was going to have an NDA but i decided against it
18:50.17tierrahehe
18:50.25tierrajosephscott: thanks
18:50.51josephscottshortcodes that don't update the caching layer underneath
18:55.58*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.219.204.99.provo.dynamic.broadweavenetworks.net)
18:56.04*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ
18:57.08josephscottoh good grief, please replace this RFC with named parameters - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/variadics
18:58.21TuxToasteragreed
19:04.48*** join/#uphpu cro (~Adium@207-135-129-4.ip.xmission.com)
19:06.50*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
19:06.51*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
19:07.38*** join/#uphpu UtahDave (~boucha@63.230.12.160)
19:07.38*** mode/#UPHPU [+o UtahDave] by ChanServ
19:09.32*** join/#uphpu clintberry (~clintberr@24.40.88.175)
19:09.32*** mode/#UPHPU [+v clintberry] by ChanServ
19:12.51*** join/#uphpu carmony (~carmony@198.61.169.8)
19:12.51*** mode/#UPHPU [+o carmony] by ChanServ
19:16.20DexterTheDragonjosephscott: the tribe has already spoken https://wiki.php.net/rfc/namedparameters#conclusions
19:16.43josephscottDexterTheDragon: yep, and they were wrong :-)
20:01.56*** join/#uphpu itimber (~Adium@204.10.234.111)
20:01.56*** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ
20:08.52*** join/#uphpu Benni_Hanna (~Benni_Han@neutroninteractive-xmission.xmission.com)
20:09.22stderr-ehhhh, I feel like I'm about to implode, but I'm going to at least partially agree with the PHP devs on that one.
20:12.52mindjujuthis has to be the first recorded ( at least in my brain ) positive comment
20:12.55*** part/#uphpu supernovia (~Adium@208.64.91.46.static.utbb.net)
20:32.23*** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@proxy.iad.automattic.com)
20:35.09*** join/#uphpu NoCoolName_Tom (~NoCoolNam@64.124.34.34)
20:36.04*** join/#uphpu supernovia (~Adium@208.64.91.46.static.utbb.net)
20:36.04*** mode/#UPHPU [+v supernovia] by ChanServ
20:41.00supernoviajsmith: you around?
20:41.33stderr-mindjuju: well, named parameters have their place, certainly.  The problem is most developers don't know how to use them, and it tends to hide a big refactoring hint from less experienced developers, too (too many parameters to a function or method).
20:50.38*** join/#uphpu kendsnyder (~kendsnyde@71-219-154-81.slkc.qwest.net)
20:50.38*** mode/#UPHPU [+v kendsnyder] by ChanServ
21:18.46*** join/#uphpu UtahDave (~boucha@63.230.12.160)
21:18.46*** mode/#UPHPU [+o UtahDave] by ChanServ
21:59.45ninnypants~rlart
21:59.45infobotcuts UtahDave into thin stripes
21:59.54UtahDaveouchy!
21:59.58stderr-rude
22:29.08*** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
22:29.08*** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ
22:30.51*** join/#uphpu cro (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com)
22:36.18*** join/#uphpu NoCoolName_Tom (~NoCoolNam@64.124.34.34)
22:57.44*** join/#uphpu NoCoolName_Tom (~NoCoolNam@64.124.34.34)
23:01.02josephscotttierra: your WC presentation last year, was that on unit testing?
23:01.14josephscottI didn't get to watch it
23:23.18*** join/#uphpu clintberry (~clintberr@24.40.88.175)
23:23.18*** mode/#UPHPU [+v clintberry] by ChanServ
23:29.39*** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@66.133.98.20)
23:29.39*** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.