| 00:00.09 | ninnypants | yeah I was kind of thinking that too |
| 00:00.21 | josephscott | some basic dev or how to would be nice too |
| 00:00.28 | ninnypants | have them do shorter more in depth presentations |
| 00:01.05 | ninnypants | yeah that's the direction I was thinking about going with it is maybe doing a basic presentation before each then having someone present |
| 00:01.35 | josephscott | sure |
| 00:01.44 | ninnypants | a quick lesson on how to do something with WP then have the main talk |
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| 00:01.55 | ninnypants | still not sure what will be best |
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| 00:02.11 | josephscott | ninnypants: should just make it official that you run wpslc, get it up on meetup, etc. |
| 00:02.18 | josephscott | doesn't hurt to try a few different things |
| 00:02.23 | ninnypants | it's on meetup now |
| 00:02.40 | ninnypants | that's why we had so many people |
| 00:04.41 | josephscott | nice! |
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| 00:08.09 | ninnypants | yeah I need to fill out the profile stuff more but we've got something like 10 members on there |
| 00:12.21 | romanovic | frak. |
| 00:15.35 | SunSparc | ~lart photoshop |
| 00:15.35 | ibot | executes killall -TERM photoshop |
| 00:15.50 | ninnypants | fitting |
| 00:16.05 | SunSparc | Yep |
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| 00:16.54 | SunSparc | mindjuju: for tomorrow, I would like to talk about education |
| 00:24.57 | mindjuju | SunSparc, any reading material or Qs to prepare for? |
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| 00:33.15 | poeticintensity | wow... |
| 00:33.16 | poeticintensity | http://serverfault.com/questions/293217/our-security-auditor-is-an-idiot-how-do-i-give-him-the-information-he-wants |
| 00:33.26 | poeticintensity | hard to believe that may have actually happened. |
| 00:35.32 | SunSparc | mindjuju: Just one to start: Should any level of government be involved with education and why? |
| 00:36.01 | mindjuju | ninnypants, you have homework too ^^ |
| 00:36.53 | SunSparc | poeticintensity: Yikes |
| 00:36.59 | ninnypants | mindjuju: I've already got my thoughts on this :) |
| 00:37.43 | SunSparc | Just the three of us tomorrow? Or anyone else up for digesting some politics for lunch. :) |
| 00:38.05 | mindjuju | PI, i bet this is some kind of PCI test, surely he doesn't want this like this |
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| 00:53.34 | mindjuju | SunSparc, i've had many convos with mgeary about education |
| 00:53.36 | mindjuju | he's good |
| 00:57.36 | SunSparc | mgeary: Lunch tomorrow? |
| 00:57.43 | mgeary | maybe so |
| 00:58.48 | SunSparc | We did 5 Guys last month. |
| 00:59.21 | SunSparc | I am open to other locations. |
| 01:00.37 | mgeary | gotta head out now |
| 01:00.57 | mgeary | but yes, i might could do lunch tomorrow |
| 01:01.19 | mgeary | can maybe even drag romanovic along. i owe him a lunch, i'm sure |
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| 15:59.01 | mindjuju__ | o.O |
| 15:59.07 | mindjuju__ | O.o |
| 15:59.11 | mindjuju__ | o.o |
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| 16:03.32 | mgeary | and so begins February |
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| 16:09.21 | mindjuju__ | yup |
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| 16:31.19 | SunSparc | ~february |
| 16:31.58 | SunSparc | mindjuju__: What time do you want to do lunch? |
| 16:32.08 | SunSparc | Also, mgeary suggested a change in venue. |
| 16:32.31 | mgeary | "Kneaders……" he whispers |
| 16:34.39 | mgeary | mmmmm |
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| 16:38.33 | TuxToaster | http://cl.ly/image/3D2n1B1T022I |
| 16:38.50 | mindjuju__ | i'm good for what ever time |
| 16:39.00 | mindjuju__ | SunSparc, mgeary, ninnypants1 |
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| 16:39.57 | mindjuju | yeah, we ate lunch at 1p last time, iirc |
| 16:41.38 | mindjuju | and the conversation du jour is SunSparc's education and I'm still mulling feasibility of "small government" in an evolved society (i'm still leaning not possible) |
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| 16:50.23 | mgeary | SunSparc's education? |
| 16:50.27 | mgeary | boy, talk about lost causes |
| 16:51.12 | mindjuju | heh |
| 16:52.04 | mindjuju | that SunSparc is a wiley one |
| 16:53.39 | mindjuju | so ninnypants, 1p is good for you? |
| 16:54.25 | ninnypants | yeah I should be good for 1 |
| 16:55.19 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: That CSS mug is good. :) |
| 16:55.34 | SunSparc | mgeary: lol :) |
| 16:56.00 | mindjuju | SunSparc, 1p worky? |
| 16:56.17 | SunSparc | Yep. 5 Guys or Kneaders? |
| 16:56.37 | mindjuju | kneaders in Orem? |
| 16:56.44 | mindjuju | i think that's closest to everybody |
| 16:56.54 | mgeary | i think it's on 2000 North |
| 16:57.27 | mindjuju | like near Macey's right? |
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| 16:57.48 | mgeary | but i don't see how any sound argument can be made for getting government out of education. Having government *in* education is what has make the United States the premiere place to get an education in the world. And yes, other countries have been making better progress in the last few decades than we have, but the fact remains |
| 16:57.53 | mgeary | mindjuju: yes |
| 16:57.54 | TuxToaster | 20th north? Macey's is on 8th |
| 16:57.55 | SunSparc | mindjuju: A bit further North. |
| 16:58.04 | TuxToaster | or maybe 16th |
| 16:58.21 | mgeary | there's another Macey's up there, isn't there? |
| 16:58.26 | mgeary | no, it's Allens, i think |
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| 16:58.52 | SunSparc | Yes, Allens is no more and Kneaders is now in the old Allens building. |
| 16:59.00 | mgeary | oh, really? |
| 16:59.01 | TuxToaster | oh really? |
| 16:59.04 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 16:59.06 | mgeary | jinx |
| 16:59.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 16:59.17 | mindjuju | oh i think yall are talking the one closer to PG |
| 16:59.19 | mindjuju | cool that |
| 16:59.26 | TuxToaster | I was going to say last time I went to Kneaders in Orem it was on 8th or so |
| 16:59.33 | TuxToaster | and crazy busy |
| 16:59.56 | mgeary | TuxToaster: i don't think so… i work on 800 N, and the only Kneaders in Orem that i know if is up north |
| 17:00.15 | mgeary | there was going to be one in those monster twin buildings at 350 South, but they never finished |
| 17:00.40 | TuxToaster | it might have been a different street but I thought it was just off of one of the main arterial roads |
| 17:01.07 | mgeary | 1990 N State St Orem |
| 17:01.25 | mgeary | and i think TuxToaster is full of beans when he says it's in the Allens building |
| 17:01.31 | mindjuju | http://kneaders.com/index.php?p_resource=locations |
| 17:01.34 | TuxToaster | huh, yeah, I didn't think it was that far north |
| 17:01.40 | TuxToaster | mgeary: that was SunSparc |
| 17:01.54 | TuxToaster | the one I went to was definitely NOT an old store... way too small |
| 17:02.01 | mgeary | so it was. Full of beans indeed |
| 17:02.18 | mindjuju | so orem kneaders? |
| 17:03.15 | ninnypants | are you sure we don't want to go a little further north to the smoking apple? http://goo.gl/maps/fLDFC |
| 17:03.23 | ninnypants | they even have beans for SunSparc |
| 17:03.45 | SunSparc | Heh, I have never actually been to the Smoking Apple. |
| 17:07.08 | mindjuju | so orem kneaders at 1p? mgeary, SunSparc, ninnypants? |
| 17:07.29 | mgeary | i'm in. romanovic, you coming with? |
| 17:08.02 | ninnypants | yeah that work for me |
| 17:08.40 | mindjuju | k |
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| 17:09.56 | SunSparc | Yep, that works for me. |
| 17:10.25 | romanovic | kneaders? yes please. |
| 17:10.34 | mgeary | i know, right? |
| 17:13.00 | SunSparc | mgeary: What is it about Kneaders that you enjoy so much? |
| 17:13.35 | mgeary | SunSparc: their Focaccia bread with turkey and provolone. it's fabulous |
| 17:13.49 | SunSparc | Mmm... |
| 17:14.00 | mindjuju | the bread reminds me of the European bakerys i ate from in China |
| 17:14.13 | mgeary | they're the closest thing around to a european bakery, imo. Not quite the same, but close than all other "European" bakeries i've seen in the valley |
| 17:14.22 | mgeary | which mostly appear to actually be latin american bakeries |
| 17:14.27 | mindjuju | bread with character, texture and flavors |
| 17:14.32 | mindjuju | word mgeary |
| 17:14.57 | ninnypants | there was a french baker at the top of the hill down into provo |
| 17:15.07 | mindjuju | i never knew what wimpy bread we have until i ate european bread in china (lots of expats from different countries in China) |
| 17:15.08 | ninnypants | I think he's closed now though |
| 17:15.17 | mgeary | ninnypants: yeah, that was a long time ago |
| 17:15.44 | ninnypants | mgeary: yeah but I like to remember things like they were yesterday ;) |
| 17:15.57 | mindjuju | and i'm sad to say i sampled different cheese until i went to China and ate it from the Europeans |
| 17:16.52 | mgeary | totally |
| 17:17.10 | mgeary | sandwich cheeses here at most places are a joke |
| 17:17.22 | mgeary | "cheddar, 'american', 'swiss' or pepper jack?" |
| 17:17.31 | mgeary | hmm. gee, well just let me think a minute |
| 17:17.37 | mindjuju | or to give it a funky twist, don't forget Monterrey Jack |
| 17:17.41 | mindjuju | ;) |
| 17:20.01 | herlo | mindjuju: what do you think the jack in 'pepper jack' is ?? :D |
| 17:21.11 | mindjuju | from some dude name Jack?] |
| 17:21.22 | SunSparc | Mmmm... cheese... |
| 17:21.33 | mindjuju | Jack's Cheese prolly sounds better than Some dude's cheese |
| 17:22.16 | SunSparc | I have had conversations about cheese with my wife and children helping them understand that when they ask me for cheese, they better specify because I am not just going to assume they mean "that yellow stuff". |
| 17:22.34 | herlo | mindjuju: I don't know, there's some dude's fry sauce, and it's pretty good fry sauce! |
| 17:22.56 | mindjuju | and in honor of Python and Cheese, I proudly present http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0 |
| 17:23.40 | mindjuju | is that true? |
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| 17:29.41 | SunSparc | mindjuju: http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/appetite.html |
| 17:30.24 | mindjuju | k, that's enough for me, i'll learn it now |
| 17:30.56 | herlo | mindjuju: lol. good learnin' |
| 17:36.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:36.23 | SunSparc | It is as good a reason as any to learn a language. :) |
| 17:36.56 | mgeary | all kinds of good reasons to learn python |
| 17:37.07 | mgeary | best reason may be that it's surprisingly simple |
| 17:37.59 | herlo | and constructed quite well |
| 17:38.12 | mgeary | especially if you're coming from PHP |
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| 17:43.56 | ninnypants | $rlart |
| 17:44.38 | mindjuju | nope, i've found great counter arguments to NOT learn python off those arguments, but the fact that it's named after Monty Python's Flying Circus, can't be beat |
| 17:44.40 | mindjuju | i'm learning it |
| 17:44.43 | mindjuju | :) |
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| 18:06.02 | clondon | How many people here use Less CSS? |
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| 18:18.34 | TuxToaster | mgeary: aha, I was thinking of the Kneaders in north Provo, not Orem |
| 18:18.57 | mgeary | ah. on 1230 North/Bulldog Ave. |
| 18:19.00 | mgeary | yeap |
| 18:19.01 | TuxToaster | yup |
| 18:19.18 | TuxToaster | clondon: you mean you haven't mastered LESS yet? |
| 18:19.19 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 18:19.49 | clondon | Hehe. I was just wondering if it's the best tool for the job or if other people prefer SASS or something |
| 18:20.06 | TuxToaster | personally I still do mostly pure CSS |
| 18:20.07 | clondon | code kit looks pretty cool: https://incident57.com/codekit/index.php |
| 18:20.17 | TuxToaster | but for what I've done I preferred LESS to SASS |
| 18:21.27 | TuxToaster | I fiddled with both a bit back when I was dealing heavily in Bootstrap and LESS seemed a bit easier to deal with |
| 18:21.59 | TuxToaster | it's one of those YMMV kind of things but either one can work nicely |
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| 18:32.25 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 18:32.35 | TuxToaster | bah |
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| 18:32.41 | TuxToaster | ~rlart |
| 18:32.41 | ibot | sends a legion of lawyers after SunSparc's head |
| 18:32.48 | TuxToaster | ~jar hhatfield |
| 18:32.49 | ibot | hhatfield took the cookie from the cookie jar. "Who, me?", "Yes, you!", "Couldn't be!", "Then, who?" "anonymouzzz !" |
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| 18:34.06 | hhatfield | ~rlart |
| 18:34.06 | ibot | whips out a sword and chops UtahDave in half |
| 18:34.06 | hhatfield | $rlart |
| 18:34.17 | mahelious | Tomorrow I will SAAS-ify my SASy SASS SAASS. |
| 18:34.20 | mahelious | with LESS |
| 18:34.43 | UtahDave | ouch |
| 18:36.04 | TuxToaster | ~glue UtahDave |
| 18:36.24 | hhatfield | that sounds like trouble to me |
| 18:37.08 | wps | protoshare is down :( |
| 18:37.30 | TuxToaster | ooh |
| 18:37.32 | wps | very nice packaging design |
| 18:37.38 | TuxToaster | I should come over and see |
| 18:38.17 | TuxToaster | still not my taste for a thermostat as far as features / control goes... but I'll give it to them on design |
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| 18:50.12 | mindjuju | any good computer part stores in utah? |
| 18:50.30 | TuxToaster | not anymore |
| 18:50.31 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 18:50.55 | TuxToaster | at least not that I know of. Used to be a few places I'd poke around but now I just order stuff. |
| 18:51.12 | mindjuju | yeah :( |
| 18:52.33 | TuxToaster | I use BestBuy in a pinch, depending on what I need |
| 18:52.34 | fungus | mindjuju, depends on the type of part you need, and how fast. |
| 18:52.58 | fungus | General computer or server: Universal Systems |
| 18:53.00 | mindjuju | motherboard + cpu |
| 18:53.07 | fungus | Networking gear: Graybar |
| 18:53.46 | TuxToaster | fungus: they're still open? (Universal Systems that is) |
| 18:53.46 | fungus | ah, but those are in SLC. Not sure about behind the zion curtain. |
| 18:53.50 | fungus | TuxToaster, yup |
| 18:54.03 | TuxToaster | huh, thought someone told me they closed up shop a while back |
| 18:54.15 | fungus | http://www.usicomputer.com/ |
| 18:54.25 | fungus | I live about 4 blocks from them |
| 18:54.40 | herlo | fungus: purity curtain! |
| 18:54.43 | TuxToaster | I know the abomination of EBC Computers is long dead *shudders* |
| 18:54.51 | fungus | herlo, lol, that too |
| 18:55.11 | fungus | Yup, EBC is dead. |
| 18:55.20 | herlo | fungus: :) |
| 18:55.54 | TuxToaster | that makes me happy. |
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| 18:57.04 | herlo | never been there |
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| 18:58.21 | fungus | honestly, i only use them if I need something same day, which is very rare. |
| 18:58.28 | herlo | yeah |
| 18:58.51 | TuxToaster | yeah, same here, but it's good to know that the option is still there |
| 18:58.54 | herlo | but I like to 'look around' a lot of the time. And since Fry's is a 5 hour drive away .... |
| 18:59.27 | ninnypants | yay more fun with copyright http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130131/00310621834/obama-administration-considers-joining-publishers-fight-to-stamp-out-fair-use-universities.shtml |
| 18:59.37 | fungus | USI has some stuff available to "look at", but it's mostly behind counter stuff. |
| 19:01.30 | herlo | oh |
| 19:01.51 | fungus | basically like EBC, but with good business sense. |
| 19:03.03 | herlo | haha |
| 19:04.36 | tierra | heh... EBC... I haven't heard of that place in quite a while until just now |
| 19:04.51 | herlo | tierra: because it doesn't exist! |
| 19:05.07 | tierra | good |
| 19:05.12 | herlo | haha |
| 19:07.34 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 19:07.54 | TuxToaster | unfortunately I used to work with a guy that would buy all kinds of stuff from EBC |
| 19:08.05 | TuxToaster | 90% of it failed randomly |
| 19:08.24 | mahelious | ninnypants: urge to kill...rising |
| 19:09.11 | TuxToaster | this is the same guy who, realizing we needed a box to host an asterisk gateway for some new phones that he ordered, he brought in a gaming desktop that he had built through EBC and used that |
| 19:09.44 | TuxToaster | we had to fight with network card drivers because the onboard NIC chipset was causing problems... got it working but just barely. |
| 19:10.10 | fungus | I've bought quite a few parts from EBC when it was around. only about 40% of them were bad. |
| 19:10.45 | TuxToaster | Then he managed to get the company to buy him parts to build a new box at home. |
| 19:11.10 | TuxToaster | fungus: heh, yeah 90% may have been an exaggeration, but even 40% is bad |
| 19:11.44 | TuxToaster | and I'm sure the memory sticks because we had so many things where we'd have a random failure and find out it was somehow linked to something he bought from EBC |
| 19:16.23 | ninnypants | mahelious: I know it's crazy |
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| 19:24.48 | fungus | TuxToaster, I agree 40% is very bad. That's why I am happy about them being gone. |
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| 19:43.58 | josephscott | I guess mariadb is going to start ditching full mysql compat - http://blog.mariadb.org/mariadb-10-0-and-mysql-5-6/ |
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| 19:48.31 | TuxToaster | " In the end, MariaDB 10 should be fully feature compatible with MySQL 5.6 and, of course, on top of that include many extra MariaDB-only features." |
| 19:48.55 | TuxToaster | "There was also another possibility — to become a true fork, stop merging from MySQL, and break compatibility. But we didn’t want to take that path — we and MariaDB users in general do value much of the functionality introduced in MySQL and want it included in MariaDB." |
| 19:48.58 | TuxToaster | so not quite |
| 19:54.22 | josephscott | by full compat I meant both directions |
| 19:54.39 | josephscott | being compatible only one direction isn't really fully compatible |
| 19:56.20 | josephscott | I'm not suggesting that is entirely bad either, just another data point |
| 19:58.00 | tierra | huh... I mean obviously you couldn't use MariaDB extensions on MySQL, and performance is definitely very different with various operations, but what part of a MariaDB SQL dump doesn't import into MySQL? |
| 20:01.17 | TuxToaster | seems like they're engine compatible since they're both using InnoDB |
| 20:01.20 | TuxToaster | just not feature compatible |
| 20:02.05 | josephscott | it will certainly be interesting to watch |
| 20:02.48 | josephscott | I wouldn't have believed it at the time, but selling MySQL to Sun was the best thing that could have happened to MySQL |
| 20:02.55 | tierra | agreed with TuxToaster... by "break compatibility", I assume they are referring to the internal API (assuming they were doing it, but that post doesn't sound like they decided to). Might affect non-network client libraries, but none of that necessarily means you won't be able to pull your data from a MariaDB and import it back into MySQL or even Percona |
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| 20:17.33 | fungus | tierra, the rest of the article explains some more specifics on breaking compatibility. Including behavior of new features. |
| 20:22.30 | josephscott | I think it is great to see things like Percona and MariaDB rise up along side the original MySQL |
| 20:23.45 | fungus | It is nice, but one of the historical benefits of MySQL was that "everyone" runs MySQL. This change is diminishing that benefit. |
| 20:25.25 | fungus | and if they continue to diverge in compatibility, there will be problems in application deployment. |
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| 20:44.28 | josephscott | true, and things like WordPress will certainly feel that |
| 20:44.49 | josephscott | but before the sale there was no dev community around MySQL (they all worked for the company), now that is no longer true |
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| 21:53.31 | SunSparc | mindjuju, ninnypants, mgeary, romanovic: Thanks for lunch today. It was fun. |
| 21:53.38 | mgeary | ditto |
| 21:53.50 | macnewbold | me too |
| 21:53.57 | macnewbold | oh, wait, nevermind. I had lunch somewhere else. |
| 21:54.07 | romanovic | agreed, it was fun |
| 21:54.35 | romanovic | right... |
| 21:55.04 | SunSparc | ~scary macnewbold |
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| 22:03.48 | SunSparc | My wife asked me the other day if there was such a thing as WiFi intercoms. A quick Google search shows some. Anyone here ever try one? |
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| 22:19.28 | captbrogers | No but I kind of want one of those mp3 doorbells |
| 22:19.41 | mgeary | wow. i really hate WebDAV |
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| 22:55.15 | beandog | mgeary: how come |
| 22:55.55 | josephscott | $lart reconciling payments |
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| 22:56.41 | josephscott | $lart reconciling payments |
| 22:56.41 | raifbot | takes reconciling payments to the vet for a "special" visit. |
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| 23:07.11 | mahelious | i've never had any issues with WebDAV itself, but I despise the way Microsoft implemented it with Outlook |
| 23:14.58 | tierra | josephscott: do you know if anyone already has a WP-related presentation submitted for OpenWest? |
| 23:15.16 | josephscott | I haven't heard, mindjuju would know |
| 23:17.43 | tierra | I imagine someone does... don't want to flood the non-WP-specific conference with WP-related presentations (but I guess that would be determined by voting on the 11th) |
| 23:18.07 | tierra | wondering if I should put in a paper on some more general open source topic |
| 23:21.54 | josephscott | tierra: some WP stuff would be good |
| 23:22.01 | josephscott | is voting the 11th of this month? |
| 23:22.10 | tierra | yeah |
| 23:24.07 | tierra | you'd think with the years of experience I have with wxWidgets, I would have presented on that, but I actually have never really attended a conference with the appropriate audience for a presentation like that, heh |
| 23:28.58 | ninnypants | tierra: you can always submit more than one topic ;) |
| 23:29.44 | josephscott | yeah, submit for both |
| 23:30.02 | tierra | my problem is more about not feeling sure about any one specific topic I'd like to present on, not so much about having multiple quality topics |
| 23:30.31 | josephscott | tierra: is MikeHansenMe going to submit a WP topic to open west? |
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| 23:30.42 | tierra | which may just mean I don't submit one this year :/ |
| 23:31.09 | tierra | josephscott: I think he might, and if he does, I'm sure it'll be WP-specific |
| 23:31.35 | tierra | so yeah, he's also wondering if anyone has submitted one too |
| 23:34.46 | ninnypants | tierra: I only see two WP talks currently submitted |
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| 23:37.47 | josephscott | ninnypants: who submitted the two so far? |
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