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| 03:19.56 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: I would not bother updated minecraft server anytime soon. They just put out another update. 1.4.7 |
| 03:20.07 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 03:20.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 03:20.23 | TuxToaster | yeah the vanilla one updated but yours is still on the bukkit-beta |
| 03:20.28 | TuxToaster | so it's 1.4.6 |
| 03:20.37 | SunSparc | Oh, haha. |
| 03:20.41 | SunSparc | Thanks |
| 03:21.08 | SunSparc | I was just watching my kids play. They downloaded a pre-release. Looks like they are adding solar panels. |
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| 03:31.59 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: sorry, I meant to say it's still on 1.4.5 |
| 03:32.31 | TuxToaster | just realized what I typed. lol. |
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| 03:32.59 | SunSparc | heh, no worries. :) |
| 03:33.17 | TuxToaster | it's fairly easy to update though so whenever you want it up let me know |
| 03:34.01 | TuxToaster | if we switch it back to the stable profile the update can be done from the web UI |
| 03:34.46 | SunSparc | Stable profile? |
| 03:34.50 | SunSparc | What do you mean? |
| 03:43.36 | TuxToaster | so the way the new mineOS works is you create a profile, which is basically a template telling it some basics like which server jar to use |
| 03:44.21 | TuxToaster | so I've got a vanilla one pointed at the normal mc jar file, a bukkit one pointed at the "stable" recommended build of craftbukkit, which isn't updated as quickly as it should be, and a bukkit-beta which is a manual one I did to get it to 1.4.5 |
| 03:44.28 | TuxToaster | since they didn't have a stable one yet |
| 03:45.09 | TuxToaster | the first two can be updated just by clicking the button on the web, it'll check a url and fetch the latest version, then you just restart the instance and it's up. It's really nice actually |
| 03:54.22 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Oh cool. That would be awesome if it could all be updated as easily as the vanilla jar is. |
| 03:57.35 | TuxToaster | yeah, next time I have to kill it for a minute I'll switch it, then it'll be easy to update. Then it's just a matter of waiting for craft to release a stable version, which is probably a good thing in case there are problems with the updates |
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| 03:58.37 | TuxToaster | ok, going to hit the sack and see if I can get rid of this congestion. Night all! |
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| 08:08.41 | mindjuju | $8ball what are the chances that jsmith is awake? |
| 08:08.41 | raifbot | mindjuju - Without a doubt. |
| 08:08.50 | mindjuju | o.O really |
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| 09:14.26 | herlo | haha |
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| 09:53.18 | jsmith | mindjuju: Guilty as charged :-_ |
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| 16:35.04 | mindjuju_ | in a moment clearly marked with insanity, i decided to route -f on my work computer from remote this morn around 4a -- many lulz were had |
| 16:35.45 | mindjuju_ | luckily i'm almost 100% off my winders box, so it could wait until this morning |
| 16:38.18 | mindjuju_ | can't seem to find a solution for VMware client for linux, i keep hearing about this web interface for 5.1 but haven't found it |
| 16:50.06 | fungus | mindjuju_ there is a web interface for 5.0, it just doesn't do everything. and I doubt the 5.1 web interface does everything either. |
| 16:50.17 | fungus | Also, both web interfaces require v-center. No free ride. |
| 16:50.54 | fungus | I just run Windows in a VM on Linux to run my v-center client. |
| 16:51.09 | mindjuju_ | oh good idea |
| 16:51.14 | mindjuju_ | i was starting to wonder about wine |
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| 18:44.47 | SunSparc | fungus: in bash, would this refer to the first command line argument minus a day or is the "-day" just a string? |
| 18:45.25 | SunSparc | ${1-day} |
| 18:47.12 | SunSparc | heh, UPHPU is more of a PHP recovery group than a users group. :) |
| 18:49.40 | SunSparc | Oh, here it is: ${VAR:-expression} - Use default value: if VAR is set and non-null, expands to $VAR. Otherwise, expands to expression. |
| 18:50.51 | SunSparc | So "day" is just the default value if there is no parameter passed to the script. |
| 18:51.01 | SunSparc | Sweet! Thanks fungus! |
| 18:51.08 | SunSparc | ~fungus++ |
| 18:52.21 | fungus | lol, I got karma from not even being here. |
| 18:52.24 | fungus | nice |
| 18:52.28 | SunSparc | :) |
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| 18:53.30 | SunSparc | It was a fun challenge to see if I can come up with the answer before you got back. :) |
| 18:53.45 | SunSparc | One of the best ways to figure something out is to talk it out with others. |
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| 18:55.00 | TuxToaster | lol |
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| 19:06.32 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 19:06.33 | raifbot | eats UtahDave's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. |
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| 19:10.22 | SunSparc | ~rlart |
| 19:10.22 | ibot | blasts mahelious to oblivion with a kamehameha wave |
| 19:10.59 | mahelious | ~cookie SunSparc |
| 19:11.12 | mahelious | $cookie SunSparc |
| 19:11.16 | SunSparc | lol |
| 19:11.17 | mahelious | ?? |
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| 19:11.28 | SunSparc | ~give mahelious a cookie |
| 19:11.28 | ibot | ACTION gives mahelious a home-baked fortune cookie to cheer him up. |
| 19:11.34 | mahelious | wasnt there some cookie jar jingle on one of these bots? |
| 19:11.47 | mahelious | "x stole the cookie from the cookie jar..." |
| 19:13.37 | SunSparc | Yes, can't remember what it was though. |
| 19:13.48 | mahelious | so, only a couple hours til the snow storm |
| 19:14.01 | SunSparc | Explains why it is so warm. |
| 19:15.46 | mahelious | s/snow storm/snowmageddon/snowpocalypse/snowarok/doomsnow/snowocaust/snowdemic |
| 19:16.09 | SunSparc | wow |
| 19:16.11 | carmony | so whats up with this snow storm? Is it going to be bad or something? |
| 19:16.19 | mahelious | oh wait, the Big Chill! lol |
| 19:19.21 | SunSparc | fungus: Is = both assignment and comparison in bash? |
| 19:20.10 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: I know eq is commonly used for comparison |
| 19:21.17 | SunSparc | Ah, yes, I see that operator. From examples I am seeing it does look like = is both. |
| 19:21.49 | TuxToaster | yeah both do work but I think people have used the eq for clarity since it looks like you're assigning with = |
| 19:22.17 | SunSparc | I see, more of a best practice perhaps. Makes sense. |
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| 19:24.11 | TuxToaster | I think the "official" reasoning is whether or not you're comparing strings or numbers |
| 19:24.32 | SunSparc | Hmm.. |
| 19:24.51 | TuxToaster | IIRC = / != / etc. are string comparison, eq and friends are numeric, though not sure how enforced it is |
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| 19:25.16 | TuxToaster | http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/comparison-ops.html <-- some good examples here |
| 19:25.34 | SunSparc | ~TuxToaster++ |
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| 19:26.06 | TuxToaster | :-) |
| 19:29.03 | wps | 37signals invents mailing lists |
| 19:29.11 | wps | http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3391-launch-basecamp-breeze-the-easiest-way-for-small-groups-to-keep-in-touch-via-email |
| 19:29.23 | wps | wait… haven't those existed for decades? |
| 19:29.44 | mgeary | no |
| 19:29.50 | mgeary | more like 2 decades |
| 19:29.56 | mgeary | oh, i thought you said "decade" |
| 19:44.32 | fungus | SunSparc, = is only comparison when used as an argument to the test command (aka [ ] ) |
| 19:45.05 | fungus | and in that use, = is for strings, and eq is forintegers |
| 19:45.16 | fungus | -eq to be accurate |
| 19:45.26 | fungus | see: man test for details |
| 19:50.21 | SunSparc | Ah, so "if $1 = daily; then" should be "if [$1 = daily]; then"? |
| 19:57.43 | fungus | yup |
| 19:57.49 | SunSparc | Cool |
| 19:59.39 | fungus | technically [] is not part of bash at all. It's a command that can be run from any shell. And it's aliased to test on most machines. |
| 20:00.12 | SunSparc | I saw mention of that. I will need to read more about it sometime. |
| 20:01.34 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: if ["$1" = "daily"]; then - is safer just in case your variable is blank |
| 20:02.13 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: Thanks, I was wondering about that. |
| 20:02.25 | DexterTheDragon | the way the expansion works would do if ["" = "daily"]; instead of if [ = "daily"]; which is a syntax error |
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| 20:02.45 | DexterTheDragon | if [ = daily] my bad |
| 20:03.25 | SunSparc | Makes sense. |
| 20:04.08 | SunSparc | I really should know more about bash scripting than I do. |
| 20:04.26 | SunSparc | I seem to have avoided it for so long. |
| 20:04.40 | SunSparc | For no good reason. |
| 20:04.44 | SunSparc | ~lolstats |
| 20:04.44 | ibot | total count of lol on #uphpu: 5364. Top 3: TuxToaster -- 1057 (19.7%), herlo -- 587 (10.9%), SunSparc -- 586 (10.9%) |
| 20:04.51 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: best trick ever: #!/bin/bash -x |
| 20:04.58 | DexterTheDragon | or bash -x script.sh |
| 20:06.04 | john_anderson | SunSparc: ping |
| 20:06.19 | SunSparc | Runs the file only if it exists? |
| 20:06.29 | SunSparc | john_anderson: pong |
| 20:06.50 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: runs the file with an xtrace, basically prints out the evaluated lines of code as it runs |
| 20:07.13 | SunSparc | Ooh, handy for debugging. |
| 20:09.26 | fungus | DtD, ooh, nice. That's fun. Love learning new things. |
| 20:09.47 | SunSparc | Amen to that. |
| 20:10.12 | SunSparc | I am not too proud to say there is still a lot I do not know. :) |
| 20:10.48 | fungus | me too. |
| 20:11.01 | fungus | There's always more to learn. |
| 20:11.26 | SunSparc | Always |
| 20:12.17 | TuxToaster | $lart SunSparc |
| 20:12.18 | raifbot | takes SunSparc to the vet for a "special" visit. |
| 20:13.53 | SunSparc | SunSparc TuxToaster |
| 20:13.59 | SunSparc | ~SunSparc TuxToaster |
| 20:13.59 | ibot | ACTION builds a really, really, really tall tower, climbs it, and drops large water balloons on TuxToaster |
| 20:14.00 | TuxToaster | ~fail |
| 20:14.00 | ibot | FAIL. |
| 20:14.06 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:14.10 | TuxToaster | ~TuxToaster SunSparc |
| 20:14.10 | ibot | ACTION pours gas all over SunSparc, stands back and tosses a match |
| 20:14.18 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:14.33 | SunSparc | ~herlo TuxToaster |
| 20:14.33 | ibot | ACTION pokes TuxToaster in they eye with a sharp needle |
| 20:14.55 | herlo | :D |
| 20:17.34 | TuxToaster | ~mindjuju herlo |
| 20:17.38 | TuxToaster | really? |
| 20:17.44 | TuxToaster | ~skinner herlo |
| 20:17.44 | ibot | ACTION buries herlo in a giant waterfall... WHOOOOSH! |
| 20:17.47 | TuxToaster | I know that one works. |
| 20:18.04 | SunSparc | try mgeary :) |
| 20:18.24 | SunSparc | I dare you. |
| 20:18.48 | TuxToaster | ~mgeary SunSparc |
| 20:18.48 | ibot | go do something useful |
| 20:18.53 | skinner1 | lol |
| 20:19.00 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:19.26 | SunSparc | ~wps skinner1 |
| 20:19.36 | SunSparc | ~macnewbold skinner1 |
| 20:19.36 | ibot | ACTION wallops skinner1 with a flip-flop |
| 20:19.46 | SunSparc | Name wars. |
| 20:19.48 | macnewbold | ~wat |
| 20:19.48 | ibot | wat is, like, the linuxargs line?, or https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
| 20:20.27 | SunSparc | macnewbold: That link is friggin hilarious. I saw it posted the other day. Almost busted a gut. |
| 20:20.48 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: was the other day the first time you'd watched it? |
| 20:20.55 | SunSparc | Yes |
| 20:21.06 | TuxToaster | ~slow SunSparc |
| 20:21.06 | ibot | ACTION attaches a ball and chain to SunSparc |
| 20:21.22 | TuxToaster | at least now you know. |
| 20:21.29 | SunSparc | ~whaleslap TuxToaster |
| 20:21.29 | ibot | ACTION beats TuxToaster upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 20:21.45 | SunSparc | And knowing is half the battle. |
| 20:21.54 | SunSparc | ibot: What is the other half of the battle? |
| 20:21.55 | ibot | I think you lost me on that one, SunSparc |
| 20:22.09 | SunSparc | That is because you are not a GI Joe. |
| 20:22.16 | SunSparc | ~fungus ibot |
| 20:22.17 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:22.38 | SunSparc | heh |
| 20:43.57 | utahcon | Battle start: Best PHP Framework, GO! |
| 20:44.17 | SunSparc | CakePHP |
| 20:44.30 | SunSparc | Or the newer offshoot li3 |
| 20:58.14 | TuxToaster | vanilla php |
| 20:58.15 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 20:58.28 | TuxToaster | <--- not the biggest fan of frameworks |
| 20:58.45 | TuxToaster | Cake is decent, Zend is meh, haven't really used any of the others enough to comment |
| 20:59.02 | TuxToaster | but I built my own mini-framework for a project I did that was awesome. |
| 20:59.39 | TuxToaster | basically just some classes to handle routing requests and breaking the project into modules that can be removed |
| 20:59.54 | DexterTheDragon | Slim. http://www.slimframework.com/ |
| 21:28.54 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 21:28.55 | raifbot | executes killall -TERM unum. |
| 21:33.04 | UtahDave | TuxToaster: codeigniter. |
| 21:37.35 | UtahDave | ~tunafart herlo |
| 21:37.35 | ibot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to herlo, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 21:39.01 | herlo | ~sunsparc UtahDave |
| 21:39.01 | ibot | ACTION builds a really, really, really tall tower, climbs it, and drops large water balloons on UtahDave |
| 21:39.17 | herlo | ~mindjuju UtahDave |
| 21:39.31 | SunSparc | ~UtahDave mindjuju_ |
| 21:39.50 | herlo | ~heartsbane UtahDave |
| 21:39.50 | ibot | UtahDave is a great example of the only thing good about kids is making them |
| 21:40.07 | SunSparc | lol |
| 21:40.19 | UtahDave | nice |
| 21:40.25 | herlo | ~lart UtahDave |
| 21:40.25 | ibot | declares UtahDave a moron |
| 21:52.24 | TuxToaster | UtahDave: I think you wanted to aim that at utahcon |
| 21:54.29 | UtahDave | he he. |
| 21:59.37 | romanovic | is there a PHP framework that has a decent clean ActiveRecord implementation? I've ended up writing my own in the past. Have not been pleased at all with the way CodeIgniter and CakePHP implement their db models. |
| 22:00.48 | mgeary | romanovic: you've got to consider the perspective on any replies you might get |
| 22:01.12 | mgeary | as someone who has worked with Django, having a PHPer tell me that, for example, Zend has a usable ActiveRecord implementation just makes me laugh |
| 22:01.13 | romanovic | Maybe newer versions of Cake, or lithium, do something like that? I don't want an associative array returned from the "model" |
| 22:02.12 | romanovic | I've seen django-style ActiveRecord implementations in PHP and Java, but not in any of the popular frameworks that I've used, unless I wrote them myself |
| 22:02.25 | mgeary | right |
| 22:02.38 | mgeary | i wrote my own PHP framework years ago with a django-esque AR implementation |
| 22:02.53 | mgeary | but also haven't seen anything in a common/popular PHP framework |
| 22:03.08 | mgeary | not that i've looked much lately. Why look, when you can just use Django ;) ? |
| 22:05.05 | DexterTheDragon | romanovic: CakePHP 3 is supposed to have an actual object based ORM, but who knows when that will be finished |
| 22:05.12 | DexterTheDragon | lithium has a pretty good ORM |
| 22:06.50 | herlo | it's the bestest evar! |
| 22:06.54 | romanovic | this does look a lot better thank Cake. http://lithify.me/docs/lithium/data/Model |
| 22:07.15 | DexterTheDragon | rails has a decent ActiveRecord implementation |
| 22:07.35 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: you would agree |
| 22:07.44 | mgeary | yes, it's my understanding that django was inspired by much of rails |
| 22:07.46 | mgeary | but i could be wrong |
| 22:07.57 | herlo | mgeary: rails before it went off them...yes |
| 22:17.17 | tierra | there's Doctrine ORM, but I've actually never heard of anyone that has used it |
| 22:17.44 | HumanCell | romanovic: what didn't you like about AR in CI? |
| 22:23.24 | romanovic | HumanCell: I didn't like that the "model class" didn't strictly model your object |
| 22:23.46 | romanovic | rather, it instantiates the class as a singleton that you use more like a Data Access Object |
| 22:24.18 | tierra | take a look at Propel as well: http://propelorm.org/ |
| 22:24.36 | romanovic | there may be a better way to write models in CI, but that's the way their documentation does it |
| 22:24.48 | tierra | honestly though, if you're already using a baked framework, I'd just stick with it's own ORM |
| 22:27.02 | DexterTheDragon | I've been meaning to play around with Idiorm & Paris but haven't gotten around to it yet http://j4mie.github.com/idiormandparis/ |
| 22:29.42 | DexterTheDragon | the problem I have with Propel is you have to model your database in XML in order to model it in PHP |
| 22:30.12 | tierra | yeah, that is annoying |
| 22:30.38 | tierra | and also weird since if you use migrations, you write those in SQL |
| 22:30.46 | tierra | heh |
| 22:31.44 | DexterTheDragon | Propel is the main reason I don't like Symfony |
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| 22:40.53 | UtahDave | romanovic: you can use any AR implementation you like in codeigniter. |
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| 22:44.38 | SunSparc | CakePHP was fun though. Been meaning to take a serious look at Lithium. |
| 22:45.53 | beandog | ~mysql-- |
| 22:46.06 | beandog | I'm starting a new blog series on how much it sucks |
| 22:46.14 | romanovic | UtahDave: and I would be interested in learning a better way. But doesn't CI have a whole convention for Model names and functions? |
| 22:46.15 | beandog | Because I have LOTS of reasons, but I've never bothered documenting them. |
| 22:46.17 | beandog | no moar. |
| 22:46.54 | UtahDave | romanovic: in CI the models don't necessarily have an AR construct. |
| 22:47.33 | UtahDave | For example, in a pretty large app at my previous employer I had models that accessed several different types of databases and datasources, including two different types of LDAP servers |
| 22:47.53 | UtahDave | So most of those models would return data in whatever format I chose. |
| 22:48.46 | UtahDave | So in my controllers, the model didn't have an active record type of interaction. The controller would push and pull data through a generic interface I put together |
| 22:49.05 | romanovic | So how would you go about ARifying the models, so the data they return is an instance of the Model class? Rather than a generic object which isn't an instance of your model class? |
| 22:49.10 | UtahDave | This worked out really well when I had to switch ldap providers once, and also when having to switch some other data sources. |
| 22:50.05 | UtahDave | You would wrap your favorite AR system in the CI model. When you instantiate the CI model you'll actually get an instance of whatever AR system you're using. |
| 22:50.14 | UtahDave | There are a ton of examples on the interwebs |
| 22:50.24 | romanovic | I've gotten around it by writing Model helpers that work on top of the model. but it always felt like a circumvention |
| 22:51.01 | romanovic | s/the model/the "model"/ |
| 22:51.39 | UtahDave | romanovic: do you have an AR implementation in PHP that you would like to use? |
| 22:52.17 | romanovic | Lithium's models look great, at least on the surface |
| 22:52.20 | DexterTheDragon | I think the initial question was what is a good PHP AR implementation |
| 22:53.19 | romanovic | yeah. Also, the term "model" seems to operate a little differently in different frameworks, and I'm just being picky |
| 22:56.41 | romanovic | I like to think "model" in any framework means a structure that can be instantiated to represent one doodad, and encapsulates all functionality that that doodad needs |
| 22:57.03 | romanovic | regardless of the datasource |
| 22:58.46 | romanovic | whereas "model" in CI seems to mean a strucutre that has a list of the doodads properties, and facilitates reading/writing of doodad info to the data sources, but isn't meant to be an instantiated doodad |
| 23:00.25 | UtahDave | yeah, that's the default CI models. |
| 23:00.58 | UtahDave | But you can have the CI model use whatever you want |
| 23:01.13 | romanovic | yeah. one of these days I'll do another experiment project |
| 23:03.06 | UtahDave | http://www.phpandstuff.com/articles/codeigniter-doctrine-from-scratch-day-1-install-and-setup |
| 23:03.29 | UtahDave | that's a great several post tutorial on using Doctrine with CI |
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