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| 02:13.13 | SunSparc | ibot: That is a really funny video. |
| 02:13.13 | ibot | SunSparc: I think you lost me on that one |
| 02:13.28 | SunSparc | wat? |
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| 16:06.08 | mgeary | ~morning |
| 16:06.09 | ibot | Good morning! |
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| 16:12.13 | captbrogers | I need everyone's attention |
| 16:13.10 | mgeary | ~boggle captbrogers |
| 16:13.11 | ibot | ACTION stares in flabbergasted astonishment at captbrogers |
| 16:15.18 | captbrogers | There's three, but the room has many more, my ego demands the attention |
| 16:15.57 | captbrogers | I just thought of that line in the same way Leslie Nielsen would |
| 16:19.44 | eggyknap | $weather 84637 |
| 16:19.45 | raifbot | eggyknap - sorry, I couldn't get weather data for 84637 |
| 16:19.52 | eggyknap | Bummer. |
| 16:19.55 | eggyknap | ~weather 84637 |
| 16:20.17 | captbrogers | $weather 84601 |
| 16:20.17 | raifbot | captbrogers - sorry, I couldn't get weather data for 84601 |
| 16:20.29 | captbrogers | I bet ibot uses Google weather and hasn't been updated since they shut it down |
| 16:20.35 | eggyknap | But since their results are generally inaccurate for my area anyway, it doesn't matter much. Weather.com says 3 degrees here right now, but I suspect it's actually colder. |
| 16:20.38 | captbrogers | erm, raifbot |
| 16:21.06 | captbrogers | eggyknap: according to KSL it's -2 in Provo, but my phone is saying -7 |
| 16:21.24 | captbrogers | At either rate I figure the weather is the same, it's too dang cold |
| 16:23.30 | SunSparc | ~heckle captbrogers |
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| 16:28.03 | UtahDave | Has a new meeting been decided for our meetings? |
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| 16:40.01 | jsmith | UtahDave: Why don't you schedule a meeting to plan the meeting about the meetings? |
| 16:41.25 | captbrogers | For jsmith to gain forgiveness in my eyes, he need to get crackin' on having Spherical Cow released! |
| 16:41.41 | jsmith | captbrogers: I'm working on it! I'm working on it! |
| 16:42.05 | captbrogers | And send me a new Fedora t-shirt, my old one is worn and has become a pajama shirt for my daughter |
| 16:42.14 | jsmith | captbrogers: It's not my fault the anaconda team can't get their act together. My parts of it have been done for ages :-p |
| 16:42.27 | mgeary | so weird. I was learning nodejs on one of my servers, and suddenly node is gone from that machineā¦. :S |
| 16:42.51 | captbrogers | Is Anaconda part of the new package installer/manager? I read something this morning about that being the cause of the setbacks |
| 16:43.05 | captbrogers | mgeary: Are you sure you didn't dream about installing it? I did that once |
| 16:43.12 | mgeary | captbrogers: maybe so |
| 16:43.47 | captbrogers | Had a dream that I spent hours setting a home development server, different packages were conflicting and what not. Then I woke up and realized I spent my entire sleep cycle in frustration at a server that didn't exist |
| 16:43.56 | mgeary | that's awful |
| 16:44.04 | captbrogers | It was |
| 16:45.38 | mahelious | two weeks ago i installed the latest libreoffice, last week i wiped and re-installed, and this morning i spend half an hour trying to figure out why libreoffice wasnt there. |
| 16:45.44 | jsmith | captbrogers: Anaconda is the Red Hat / Fedora installer. Has been for the past 15 years or so |
| 16:45.50 | mahelious | felt like i had installed far more recently |
| 16:45.55 | jsmith | captbrogers: There's a new version in F18 |
| 16:46.13 | jsmith | captbrogers: and let's just say it's still a bit rough around the edges :-( |
| 16:46.14 | captbrogers | jsmith: The article I read wasn't specific, so I wasn't sure if it was Anaconda or yum that was the issue |
| 16:46.23 | jsmith | captbrogers: Anaconda, definitely |
| 16:46.45 | jsmith | It'll be (somewhat) usable for F18, but should (cross our fingers!) be much better for F19 |
| 16:46.50 | captbrogers | Well, I guess I'll wait until summer before installing then. I can't be a tester on my work laptop |
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| 16:58.53 | UtahDave | ha! thanks for the suggestion, jsmith! |
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| 17:04.45 | skinner | Ski-Ba-Bop-Ba-Dop-Bop |
| 17:04.48 | skinner | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cnQCk0u49w |
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| 17:28.30 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 17:28.31 | raifbot | sends a legion of lawyers after ChanServ's head. |
| 17:31.16 | josephscott | $8ball were they able to retrieve ChanServ's head? |
| 17:31.17 | raifbot | josephscott - Most likely. |
| 17:35.03 | itimber | ~raifbot: most likely they were able to retrieve it? or most likely it was ChanServ's head?? |
| 17:42.44 | UtahDave | jsmith: my brother-in-law recently got hired at bluehost. I think he's some kind of junior sysadmin or support tech. He's loving it. |
| 17:45.26 | tierra | we've been hiring a bunch of jr admins lately |
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| 18:09.41 | mgeary | ~friday |
| 18:10.36 | josephscott | $8ball is it friday? |
| 18:10.36 | raifbot | josephscott - Without a doubt. |
| 18:23.41 | mgeary | ~rlart |
| 18:23.41 | ibot | squishes unum like a bug |
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| 18:58.37 | ninnypants | josephscott: were you referring to the wpslc about page when you were saying the address was wrong? |
| 18:58.49 | josephscott | I think so |
| 18:58.59 | josephscott | I recall a bluffdale mention some where |
| 18:59.44 | ninnypants | ok I could never find it because I thought you were talking about the actual meetup posts but I found it and updated the old address and map on the about page |
| 19:19.05 | mindjuju | ~apb SunSparc |
| 19:19.06 | ibot | ACTION summons Beth to stake out SunSparc |
| 19:22.48 | mindjuju | greets all, Sunsparc and I are headed to 5guys in orem to talk us some politics, if you're local and want to come das goot |
| 19:23.28 | mindjuju | mgeary, if you aint ate lunch yet, you should come |
| 19:23.30 | mgeary | hmm |
| 19:23.41 | mgeary | that would be nice |
| 19:23.53 | mgeary | but /me always has so dang much to get done :S |
| 19:24.02 | mindjuju | that's in 30minutes, just enough time to wrap up some things and head for a nice bite to eat and good conversation |
| 19:24.29 | mindjuju | ninnypants, looking for an excuse to get out? |
| 19:24.53 | mindjuju | captbrogers, you ate yet? |
| 19:25.46 | mindjuju | i'd invite UtahDave, but i think salt is in Murray |
| 19:26.10 | mindjuju | lets see, jsmith is in virginia (kinda long way to go for good conversation) |
| 19:26.16 | mindjuju | josephscott is in sandy |
| 19:26.27 | mindjuju | herlo is in sojo |
| 19:26.39 | herlo | mindjuju: actually, herriman now |
| 19:26.47 | mindjuju | eggyknap is about 10 miles south of nowhere ;) |
| 19:26.57 | josephscott | you are going out to lunch specifically to talk politics? |
| 19:27.09 | mindjuju | DtD is on the lonely mountain |
| 19:27.22 | stderr- | I thought that's what #utah is for |
| 19:27.22 | eggyknap | mindjuju: ...but the geographic center of nowhere. |
| 19:27.23 | SunSparc | herlo: welcome back :) |
| 19:27.36 | mindjuju | josephscott, we'll we might talk some other things too |
| 19:27.49 | supernovia | mindjuju: pinghe |
| 19:27.50 | josephscott | herriman seems like a nice place to live, but do they have fiber to the home? |
| 19:27.51 | herlo | SunSparc: I really never left.... :) |
| 19:28.13 | mindjuju | but this way we can actually get to a better understanding -- better than you can get on FB |
| 19:28.17 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: it's the misty mountain |
| 19:28.21 | mindjuju | supernovia, checking |
| 19:28.48 | supernovia | oh just saw your note |
| 19:29.02 | mindjuju | DtD, fatal fail on my part! |
| 19:29.14 | herlo | mindjuju: but the FB conversations are so informative! :D |
| 19:30.19 | mindjuju | oh, i just happened to get an SMS at the same time you sent that supernovia, so i thought that was you |
| 19:30.38 | SunSparc | herlo: lol |
| 19:30.59 | SunSparc | Informative like spaghetti code. |
| 19:33.52 | herlo | SunSparc: lol, indeed |
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| 19:41.40 | ninnypants | mindjuju: where are you guys going? |
| 19:42.08 | ninnypants | oh 5guys maybe I will |
| 19:42.53 | SunSparc | ninnypants: we are meeting there at 13:00. I am about to head over there. |
| 19:43.08 | ninnypants | ok |
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| 19:50.09 | herlo | and #utah |
| 19:52.42 | SunSparc | herlo: Orem |
| 19:52.49 | herlo | bummer |
| 19:52.54 | herlo | would be nice to see you guys |
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| 20:23.32 | captbrogers | Sorry, my boss came to BYU and took me to lunch |
| 20:23.54 | captbrogers | mindjuju: right as you were typing that apparently |
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| 20:57.34 | TuxToaster | ~badger |
| 20:57.34 | ibot | http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/ |
| 20:57.41 | TuxToaster | yay |
| 20:59.59 | TuxToaster | josephscott / herlo: They should make UTOPIA follow along the mountain view corridor like they did with I-15, then Herriman would have Fiber |
| 21:00.10 | TuxToaster | plus so would my house most likely. |
| 21:04.29 | herlo | TuxToaster: indeed |
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| 21:18.32 | mgeary | anyone here a node.js pro? |
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| 21:19.52 | fungus | https://twitter.com/rickasaurus/status/281164345445068800 |
| 21:20.03 | TuxToaster | LOL |
| 21:20.18 | TuxToaster | kinda scary how fungus had that at the ready. |
| 21:20.49 | josephscott | haha |
| 21:21.10 | josephscott | fungus: any particular reason? |
| 21:21.17 | captbrogers | Does fungus (or anyone else) have a nice pretty data set (graphs?) of Node.js performing identical tasks compared to PHP/Ruby/Python and proving it is so horrendously slower and crappier that I should swear off it? |
| 21:21.46 | fungus | the benefits of node.js (non-blocking, etc) can be done in any language. |
| 21:22.06 | fungus | Why use a hideous language when you don't have to? |
| 21:22.08 | TuxToaster | I don't mind Node for some lightweight things, but I don't like some of the pushes to use it for *everything* like blogs and wikis |
| 21:22.09 | mgeary | heh |
| 21:22.19 | captbrogers | What is similar to web sockets that can be used in PHP? |
| 21:22.28 | mgeary | in my case, i just need it as a last-ditch measure to get highcharts graph generation on the server |
| 21:23.00 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: you can use web sockets in PHP with a library for it |
| 21:23.16 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: What library? I haven't heard of any |
| 21:23.20 | TuxToaster | http://socketo.me/ |
| 21:23.32 | TuxToaster | I haven't played with it much yet, but it looked interesting |
| 21:23.37 | captbrogers | I'm genuinely curious, I have a project that would need them and I want to look at different options |
| 21:23.38 | fungus | I like the idea of spreading these ideas in programming, But implementing it in javascript was a bad idea. |
| 21:24.00 | fungus | They are quite easy to implement in ruby or python |
| 21:24.29 | TuxToaster | ~execute fungus.py |
| 21:24.45 | TuxToaster | bleh. |
| 21:24.46 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 21:25.48 | fungus | I would use node.python, node.ruby, node.*, but js? really? WTF? |
| 21:26.16 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:26.21 | josephscott | but they you can do other fun things like write code in coffeescript ;-) |
| 21:26.26 | josephscott | ~lolstats |
| 21:26.26 | ibot | total count of lol on #uphpu: 5345. Top 3: TuxToaster -- 1046 (19.6%), herlo -- 584 (10.9%), SunSparc -- 583 (10.9%) |
| 21:26.27 | fungus | lol |
| 21:26.39 | josephscott | ~king TuxToaster |
| 21:26.54 | TuxToaster | what I've found troubling more than the choice of JS for a lot of that is the fact that there are so many pushes to NOT use JS in JS |
| 21:26.57 | herlo | lol |
| 21:27.00 | TuxToaster | like CoffeeScript, etc. |
| 21:27.02 | TuxToaster | $lart josephscott |
| 21:27.03 | raifbot | takes out a cattle prod and gives josephscott a good jolt. |
| 21:27.20 | TuxToaster | carmony needs to lol more often. |
| 21:27.26 | josephscott | ~defend me |
| 21:27.26 | ibot | ACTION jumps in front of josephscott, taking all insults, violence and anything else negative thrown toward josephscott so that josephscott may live on in peace and quiet |
| 21:27.27 | mgeary | fun arguing aside, so no one here has used node.js a lot? |
| 21:27.28 | fungus | Even Google is working on a JS replacement for the browser. |
| 21:27.46 | TuxToaster | mgeary: I've fiddled with it but haven't used it heavily |
| 21:27.46 | captbrogers | I honestly haven't heard of a quantifiable reason that node.js is bad overall, everything I've heard never backs up any claims with data, it's all just assumed an opinion |
| 21:27.53 | stderr- | mgeary: I've used it a quite a bit. |
| 21:27.54 | josephscott | I've only lightly used node.js, nothing serious |
| 21:28.37 | fungus | captbrogers, see ~wat |
| 21:28.41 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: main thing is the language sucks, but I don't think the actual implementation of it is bad, it's actually pretty decent |
| 21:28.55 | stderr- | JavaScript isn't that horrible of a language. |
| 21:29.06 | stderr- | And he's done the "wat" presentation on more than JS. |
| 21:29.09 | TuxToaster | it's far better than it used to be, for sure. |
| 21:29.15 | stderr- | (Bernhardt, that is) |
| 21:29.41 | fungus | Yes, but it has a lot of great examples of JS being bad |
| 21:29.54 | TuxToaster | honestly most of the wat moments I have in JS now are often due to silly security implementations |
| 21:30.02 | stderr- | Sure. Doesn't mean JS is a poor language, though. |
| 21:30.20 | captbrogers | fungus: I've seen the wat, and while it does point out some issues it doesn't mean that it is a bad language overall |
| 21:30.29 | TuxToaster | like you can have a site hosted on sub.domain.com. Do document.domain = 'domain.com; works fine. Then try to go back to document.domain = 'sub.domain.com' and you get an error. Wat. |
| 21:31.28 | TuxToaster | what I see that's wrong with the JS world right now is that the language lacks in a lot of core features that others have already |
| 21:32.11 | josephscott | every language has issues |
| 21:32.11 | stderr- | JavaScript is a victim of its users in a lot of ways. There are some definite weaknesses, but some of the most beautiful code I've seen was written in JS. |
| 21:32.15 | TuxToaster | which results in a ton of fragmentation and arguing and bickering between people over which framework is better and having everyone and their dog write a new [framework_name].js library every few days |
| 21:32.28 | TuxToaster | and trying to sell you on how much better it is to use than x or y or z |
| 21:32.33 | fungus | I'm exaggerating my distaste for JS, because it's fun. |
| 21:33.14 | TuxToaster | sorry, x.js or y.js or z.js. :P |
| 21:33.49 | TuxToaster | stderr-: I don't disagree |
| 21:33.57 | TuxToaster | I just think it has it's purpose |
| 21:34.03 | fungus | I could wail about other languages too, like perl, even though I use it often. |
| 21:34.29 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: Thanks for the link, this may actually fill a purpose for me |
| 21:34.34 | TuxToaster | for working with browsers, and doing cool stuff in web pages, it's actually pretty good now, and I've been able to pull off some cool stuff using little more than pure JS or possibly some jQuery |
| 21:34.42 | josephscott | ~perl++ |
| 21:34.49 | josephscott | ~karma perl |
| 21:34.49 | ibot | perl has karma of 1 |
| 21:34.57 | josephscott | :-( |
| 21:34.58 | TuxToaster | I just don't know that it's the best thing ever to run a blog engine or a wiki or a fully database driven app in |
| 21:35.45 | TuxToaster | although I will say, it does provide a cool alternative to be able to have consistent code between client and server in JS vs having some server side framework try to mangle that together for you. |
| 21:35.54 | TuxToaster | ~perl++ |
| 21:36.03 | TuxToaster | ~php++ |
| 21:36.06 | TuxToaster | ~java-- |
| 21:36.08 | TuxToaster | :-) |
| 21:36.14 | stderr- | ~ruby++ |
| 21:36.21 | TuxToaster | ~lasso---------------- |
| 21:36.23 | fungus | ~python++ |
| 21:36.28 | TuxToaster | luckily I don't have to work with that mess anymore though. |
| 21:36.32 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: I agree, I don't see it as a replacement for PHP. I came up with a project idea just last night and it seemed that Node.js was the best fit because of web socket usage |
| 21:36.44 | stderr- | ~erlang++ |
| 21:36.50 | *** join/#uphpu MikeHansenMe (~mike@69-195-66-175.unifiedlayer.com) |
| 21:37.18 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: yeah, from what I've heard the socket stuff is nice, and it's fairly light and easy to work with. Lots of companies like to use it to power mobile gateways for that kind of stuff as well |
| 21:37.39 | fungus | I've considered learning erlang and lisp for purely academic reasons many times. Not sure if it's worth it. |
| 21:37.53 | TuxToaster | but I've definitely been interested in trying out the Rocket lib to see how well it works |
| 21:37.54 | stderr- | Erlang is most definitely worth it. |
| 21:38.16 | poeticintensity | ...and now for your Friday entertainment, I present you.... this. |
| 21:38.17 | poeticintensity | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBSkq-_St8 |
| 21:38.18 | stderr- | I've used Erlang professionally more than any other language besides Ruby and possibly Python in the past 3, 4 years. |
| 21:38.49 | TuxToaster | stderr-: for what, may I ask? |
| 21:38.51 | fungus | really. I thought it was mostly an academic language like lisp and scheme |
| 21:39.05 | TuxToaster | I know it's commonly used in spreadsheets and some other querying and filtering stuff |
| 21:39.17 | stderr- | fungus: What? No. |
| 21:39.51 | stderr- | TuxToaster: chat backend. RabbitMQ and generic message queue schemes. |
| 21:40.03 | TuxToaster | interesting |
| 21:40.04 | fungus | ohh, interesting. |
| 21:40.10 | stderr- | honestly, Erlang is pretty spread in it's implementations. |
| 21:40.20 | TuxToaster | the call center I used to work for had a couple of reports in Erlang as well |
| 21:40.27 | TuxToaster | but haven't run into it often |
| 21:40.46 | josephscott | the jabber server for wordpress.com is all erlang |
| 21:41.03 | josephscott | delivers who knows how many gazillion IMs every day |
| 21:41.08 | stderr- | Facebook uses it as its backend for its chat system, more and more game companies are using it as the language to implement the server |
| 21:41.31 | stderr- | All of the Call of Dutys since MW use it for their matchmaking and core networking |
| 21:41.46 | stderr- | A lot of trading companies use it trading programs |
| 21:41.48 | stderr- | it for* |
| 21:41.53 | stderr- | Erlang is amazing. |
| 21:41.59 | TuxToaster | unfortunately the last time I dealt with an MQ server professionally we were messing with EDIFACT |
| 21:42.25 | TuxToaster | I would have gladly welcomed Erlang there. |
| 21:42.26 | fungus | josephscott, ejabberd? |
| 21:42.30 | josephscott | yep |
| 21:42.49 | fungus | I used that for a while before we got our Google Apps going. |
| 21:43.04 | TuxToaster | yeah ejabberd was my server of choice |
| 21:43.17 | josephscott | run into a few issues over the years, but on the whole been very good. the dev doing the bulk of the work on it really likes it |
| 21:44.03 | TuxToaster | we used it for a while until a subsidiary we acquired pushed for using Wildfire instead |
| 21:44.40 | TuxToaster | which they liked because they had some backend system set up to hook into it and log private conversations :( |
| 21:45.12 | captbrogers | Since the collective is so very active at the moment I would like to pose an idea and gather opinions on the suject |
| 21:45.30 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: yes. no. maybe. |
| 21:45.47 | captbrogers | I'm going to be writing a small game as part of an coding exercise. |
| 21:46.08 | captbrogers | I want to write it to be multiple-player, real-time, in-browser, buzz-word, and awesome. |
| 21:46.29 | stderr- | Have you ever written a game before? |
| 21:46.50 | TuxToaster | +1 for having "awesome" as a feature |
| 21:47.21 | captbrogers | stderr-: No, and I know this will be a year or more in the making, there are probably innumerable things that I cannot conceive of yet that will crop up as problems, but this game will be tiny to begin with until I get wet behind the feet, as they say |
| 21:47.33 | fungus | captbrogers, like this: http://browserquest.mozilla.org/ |
| 21:47.40 | captbrogers | fungus: Yes, very similar |
| 21:48.08 | stderr- | captbrogers: gotcha. Yea, I wouldn't focus on multiplayer aspects right now. You'll have your hands full learning most of the basic game engine concepts. |
| 21:48.11 | captbrogers | I have that git repo bookmarked, download and spread out on my kitchen table for careful examination |
| 21:48.17 | TuxToaster | wow, that reminds me of some old games |
| 21:48.20 | TuxToaster | graphics-wise |
| 21:48.54 | stderr- | BrowserQuest uses a publically available sprite library, I believe. |
| 21:49.03 | TuxToaster | lol @ "you can haz rat burger" |
| 21:49.18 | captbrogers | stderr-: I figured this wouldn't be a weekend project, but I do want something similar to what fungus linked |
| 21:50.05 | stderr- | captbrogers: good stuff. What is your question? |
| 21:50.09 | captbrogers | But I also feel at some point in the future I could have paid content, so I want to be able to protect assets of the project to minimize pirating |
| 21:50.57 | fungus | ah, the zynga business model... |
| 21:50.59 | captbrogers | stderr-: Continuing on the paid line of thinking, is it possible to do multiplayer real time stuff using PHP? I feel that could help reduce pirating because less of the source would be available to the client |
| 21:51.13 | captbrogers | fungus: more of the indie bundle business model |
| 21:51.21 | captbrogers | Except with Zynga's IPO price |
| 21:51.30 | fungus | heh |
| 21:51.47 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:51.56 | captbrogers | Then I'd flip my desk, flip people off as I walk out of the building in a suit made of $100s and never work another day in my life |
| 21:52.03 | stderr- | captbrogers: Sure. |
| 21:52.17 | stderr- | You'd still need a client side implementation, but you can presumably use anything for the server / auth side. |
| 21:52.44 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: do exactly that, but with smoke and confetti blowing around you as you flip your desk, throw in some catchy music and some shades |
| 21:52.56 | TuxToaster | and you might get Gangnam Style popularity. |
| 21:53.48 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: If I do make enough money ( $5,000,000+ ) I will do it on video and post it to youtube just for your entertainment |
| 21:53.51 | TuxToaster | seems like you'd have to leverage client side caching pretty well though |
| 21:54.19 | supernovia | mindjuju: pinghe again? |
| 21:54.36 | TuxToaster | you don't want to be paying for a ton of bandwidth and people don't have the attention span to wait for it to load |
| 21:54.44 | TuxToaster | supernovia: o hai! |
| 21:54.55 | captbrogers | stderr-: I was planning on writing my JavaScript to cache a lot of stuff on the client and the main interactions would be sending/receiving JSON data to update changes in position or during a "battle sequence" |
| 21:55.04 | supernovia | howdy TuxToaster :) |
| 21:55.31 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: that's one huge benefit that mobile apps have, since the content is already there and difficult to go in and browse, but they can quickly launch and all of the logic is handled server side |
| 21:56.13 | captbrogers | But it being in JavaScript, I'm not sure how to sanitize input to prevent people from opening up a console (desktop version) and messing with the values |
| 21:56.57 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: restricting the game to mobile would be ideal but I am wondering about also including a desktop (in-browser) version |
| 21:57.15 | captbrogers | Wondering if it is practical or if it's too much work for me and I should just do mobile development |
| 21:58.18 | fungus | I would suggest the mobile dev. Maybe not full blown app, but at least make it work on a mobile browser. |
| 21:58.43 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: if you really did go browser-based... that doesn't mean that they have to use a browser to play. |
| 21:58.46 | captbrogers | fungus: that's what I'm wondering if I have to do to protect my efforts |
| 21:58.55 | TuxToaster | mobile app could be a webkit wrapper |
| 21:59.00 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: how so? |
| 21:59.24 | TuxToaster | desktop version would basically be the same thing but making sure that console, etc. is disabled |
| 21:59.40 | captbrogers | How do you disable the console in the client from the server? |
| 21:59.56 | captbrogers | What is this black magic you speak of?! I demand you talk! |
| 22:00.12 | TuxToaster | well, if you tell them to go play at captbrogers.com and the game opens right there, you can't |
| 22:00.43 | TuxToaster | but if they have to launch the game with a "client" that is really just a browser frame without the console.... |
| 22:00.58 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: What if they open up something like Firebug's console and start trying to send commands they gleaned from a client-side scripts? |
| 22:01.13 | fungus | What's wrong with an open source model? Just use subscriptions to use your server. |
| 22:01.57 | captbrogers | Subscriptions as in a one-time fee for an active account? |
| 22:02.04 | fungus | TuxToaster, that doesn't protect anything. users can just capture off the wire if necessary and sniff out all the assets and code. |
| 22:02.13 | fungus | captbrogers, sure that works too |
| 22:02.32 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: well if you had some kind of simple client that they used rather than a conventional browser, the "client" could disable most abilities to use the console or touch scripts... but it wouldn't stop someone who is really determined and knows how to sniff data other ways |
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| 22:02.47 | captbrogers | I know that pirating can/will happen, and there is nothing I can do to prevent it. That is just how it all works. I'm just a little paranoid and want to impede it as best as I can |
| 22:02.49 | fungus | So they pay to use your services. But the code is open source. |
| 22:03.06 | TuxToaster | fungus: agreed, I was just telling him how he could prevent people from fiddling with the console or just right clicking and browsing source. |
| 22:03.17 | fungus | ah, right |
| 22:03.31 | TuxToaster | anything JS based is going to be somewhat easy to sniff though. |
| 22:04.26 | captbrogers | Having client-side code open only bothers me in the sense that someone who is determined could look at the JS, find the command to replenish health, then spam the server every few milliseconds to give themselves infinite health |
| 22:04.32 | TuxToaster | could always have all of the code remote and make the client just open VNC or RDP sessions... |
| 22:04.33 | TuxToaster | *ducks* |
| 22:05.02 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: that seems to depend on your logic |
| 22:05.15 | TuxToaster | if you have a client side command that allows you to request health, then yes |
| 22:05.27 | captbrogers | That's the thing, I'm not sure of a way to prevent that. If I can find a way, then I could be fine and move on |
| 22:05.39 | TuxToaster | if the server side is what's determining whether or not that follows the rules, then they can ask but it won't work |
| 22:05.48 | fungus | Just validate all input. |
| 22:06.03 | captbrogers | True, I guess I could do that. |
| 22:06.10 | captbrogers | Make requests instead of giving commands |
| 22:06.24 | fungus | every bit of info must match very specific parameters. |
| 22:06.40 | fungus | Make sure you validate at the server side, optionally client side. |
| 22:07.10 | fungus | as well |
| 22:07.26 | captbrogers | Yeah, makes sense. |
| 22:07.32 | fungus | But that's standard web dev security 101 |
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| 22:08.12 | TuxToaster | yup. And have ways to double check. Like presumably the player gets health because he just picked up a heart piece. So you then include some unique identifier for that heart resource to the server and it can validate if that item really exists and has been used or not, etc. |
| 22:08.24 | TuxToaster | and expire it so even if it worked once it won't work twice, etc. |
| 22:08.39 | captbrogers | Validating input was already planned, it was just a matter of how to verify that values hadn't been tampered with. But storing those on the server then making requests from the client would work |
| 22:08.52 | captbrogers | Just have to start writing it all and see what the server/network load is like |
| 22:14.58 | captbrogers | That's it, i'm out |
| 22:15.01 | *** part/#uphpu captbrogers (~brian@128.187.201.162) |
| 22:17.51 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@71-219-154-36.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:26.40 | mindjuju | anybody got a minute to help me proof something? |
| 22:27.55 | peno | it will cost you a dollar |
| 22:28.31 | mindjuju | hmm, it'd be worth it |
| 22:29.16 | mindjuju | peno, it's this - http://pastebin.com/xQ68UQui |
| 22:29.48 | peno | oh if I have to click something, it's double |
| 22:29.57 | mindjuju | dag! |
| 22:30.38 | skinner | So is this mathematical proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_proof) or legal proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_(law))?? |
| 22:30.38 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:31.00 | skinner | http://xkcd.com/1153/ |
| 22:31.02 | peno | or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_(rapper) |
| 22:31.27 | mindjuju | i guess it could be tested to see what proof it was (alcohol) |
| 22:31.35 | skinner | lol |
| 22:32.38 | peno | are the extra spaces in between a few words intentional? |
| 22:33.20 | skinner | It is so more molecules can rest there when they get tired on their journey. |
| 22:33.36 | mindjuju | peno, where extra spacing? |
| 22:33.38 | peno | free loading molecules... |
| 22:34.19 | peno | mindjuju: your amazing...aimed at business... |
| 22:34.51 | peno | probably a couple more, just noticed those at first glance. |
| 22:34.55 | peno | then SQUIRREL |
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| 22:35.35 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v john_anderson] by ChanServ |
| 22:35.51 | mindjuju | thx peno! they are fixed |
| 22:35.56 | mindjuju | ~peno++ |
| 22:37.25 | mindjuju | ~jsmith++ |
| 22:39.24 | mindjuju | ~josephscott++ |
| 22:49.06 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 22:49.07 | raifbot | strangles poeticintensity with a doohicky mouse cord. |
| 22:49.20 | skinner | $rlart |
| 22:49.21 | raifbot | smacks romanovic up side the head with a clue-by-4. |
| 22:50.30 | josephscott | $lart TuxToaster |
| 22:50.30 | raifbot | send killer squirrels to attack TuxToaster. |
| 22:50.45 | TuxToaster | ~squirrel |
| 22:50.45 | ibot | from memory, squirrel is something you can have fun with if you've got some duct tape handy... |
| 22:50.52 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:51.45 | skinner | raifbot, punish the person who gave you the clue-by-4 |
| 22:51.52 | skinner | $rlart |
| 22:51.52 | raifbot | drops a humongous exploding nuke on mahelious. |
| 22:52.00 | skinner | ~skinner mahelious |
| 22:52.01 | ibot | ACTION buries mahelious in a giant waterfall... WHOOOOSH! |
| 22:52.13 | TuxToaster | $8ball did mahelious give you the clue-by-4 then? |
| 22:52.14 | raifbot | TuxToaster - My sources say no. |
| 22:52.22 | skinner | LIES |
| 22:54.05 | mahelious | http://static2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/I+have+no+idea+what+just+happened+but+I+like+_486ab61e65c90051e5843ef01f5f8126.jpg |
| 22:56.41 | romanovic | wow. UTOSC now grown into OpenWest? Didn't realise it had grown so much |
| 22:56.41 | mindjuju | DtD, did you see that i remembered both urug AND oalug/ |
| 22:56.45 | mindjuju | i'm learning! |
| 22:57.23 | DexterTheDragon | you expect me to check my email? |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@67.214.233.37) |
| 23:00.21 | TuxToaster | mahelious: lol |
| 23:03.21 | mindjuju | DtD, i'm still publishing :) |
| 23:03.26 | mindjuju | i was just saying, i remembered |
| 23:03.43 | mindjuju | think about how long i was calling you Chris before I finally fired that brain cell and got me another one |
| 23:04.30 | skinner | mindjuju: That is an awesom expression. I'm gonna have to borrow that now. |
| 23:04.38 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 23:05.43 | mindjuju | ;) |
| 23:06.14 | mindjuju | that part about calling DtD Chris is sadly true, btw, i called him that for like 3 ~ 4 months |
| 23:06.23 | mindjuju | K ~ C, they sound so similar!! |
| 23:09.16 | TuxToaster | wat. |
| 23:11.39 | mindjuju | chicken butt |
| 23:11.52 | mindjuju | want to know why? |
| 23:15.45 | josephscott | $lart utf-16 |
| 23:15.46 | raifbot | forces utf-16 to use Outlook Express. |
| 23:23.45 | poeticintensity | why? |
| 23:23.53 | poeticintensity | $lart mindjuju |
| 23:23.53 | raifbot | installs a bad bootloader on mindjuju and turns mindjuju into a brick. |
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| 23:39.53 | josephscott | impressive - http://monstersuniversity.com/edu/ |
| 23:40.53 | josephscott | http://devour.com/video/imagine-you-at-mu/ |
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