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| 16:31.05 | TuxToaster | http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23418784&nid=148 <-- first thing I thought of reading this is "I was holding two knives, then I took a bullet to the knee." |
| 16:31.38 | TuxToaster | the comments are just sad though, people complaining over whether or not they should have shot him in the leg or just killed him |
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| 16:38.35 | josephscott | sad that the comments are mostly name calling for a situation where people clearly have some problems |
| 16:39.27 | josephscott | not sure if the events were optimal in that case, but at least no was killed |
| 16:40.28 | TuxToaster | yup |
| 16:40.53 | TuxToaster | as far as I know, that's always been the case, that they'd try to incapacitate the person rather than immediately try to kill them |
| 16:41.21 | TuxToaster | and that's not a liberal/conservative idea, that's just being humane. |
| 16:41.46 | josephscott | yeah, not sure where the name calling helps in that discussion |
| 16:42.45 | ninnypants | It shows that their opinions should be respected ;) |
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| 17:00.57 | john_anderson | SunSparc: ping |
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| 17:07.42 | carmony | lol |
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| 17:10.15 | captbrogers | That was random that carmony laughs when no one said anything for almost 10 minutes |
| 17:10.25 | carmony | lol |
| 17:10.36 | josephscott | carmony things everything is funny :-) |
| 17:10.45 | josephscott | ~lolstats |
| 17:10.45 | ibot | total count of lol on #uphpu: 5316. Top 3: TuxToaster -- 1034 (19.5%), SunSparc -- 581 (10.9%), herlo -- 579 (10.9%) |
| 17:10.50 | josephscott | ~lolstats carmony |
| 17:10.51 | ibot | carmony has said lol 561 times (10.6 %), ranked 4/124 (percentile: 3.2 %) |
| 17:11.00 | jsmith | ~lolstats jsmith |
| 17:11.00 | ibot | jsmith has said lol 0 times (0.0 %) |
| 17:11.08 | jsmith | Nice... |
| 17:11.13 | josephscott | another 20 times and carmony will be back in the top 3 :) |
| 17:11.31 | herlo | yay! |
| 17:11.45 | captbrogers | ~lolstats captbrogers |
| 17:11.45 | ibot | captbrogers has said lol 32 times (0.6 %), ranked 19/124 (percentile: 15.3 %) |
| 17:11.57 | captbrogers | In the top 20! |
| 17:12.02 | herlo | I want to know who is 124th |
| 17:12.06 | herlo | :) |
| 17:12.55 | jsmith | Not I, obviously |
| 17:16.14 | herlo | lol |
| 17:19.58 | wps | Dear KSL, if your video plays on my iOS devices with flash, why in the world do you require flash on my desktop? |
| 17:20.24 | wps | fail |
| 17:25.30 | jsmith | wps: You're holding it wrong :-p |
| 17:26.04 | herlo | wps: I've got a feeling your sentence is failing. |
| 17:26.35 | herlo | If I were ksl and requiring flash on your iOS device, I would continue to require it on the desktop. That's the tech I've chosen. |
| 17:30.43 | wps | thanks, herlo |
| 17:30.47 | wps | s/with/without |
| 17:31.10 | TuxToaster | $lart josephscott |
| 17:31.10 | raifbot | executes killall -HUP josephscott. |
| 17:31.23 | herlo | :) |
| 17:31.28 | herlo | wps: anytime. |
| 17:32.14 | TuxToaster | wps: that's because KSL's video handling sucks. |
| 17:32.53 | TuxToaster | the player they use by default often throws random errors, and then on linked stories they sometimes embed the video directly from other sources |
| 17:33.03 | TuxToaster | so the experience is really fractured and unreliable |
| 17:33.25 | wps | nice, it doesn't even work in Chrome (because I have third-party cookies blocked) |
| 17:33.26 | TuxToaster | and don't even get me started on their lack of proofreading & editing. ;-) |
| 17:33.42 | wps | oh… yeah… their copywriting/editing is awful |
| 17:34.02 | captbrogers | And I don't even want to hear about their URL handling |
| 17:34.21 | TuxToaster | one story last week had like three major issues in the first paragraph. One of them was hilariously that they misspelled the SALT LAKE CITY - at the beginning of the post. |
| 17:34.22 | captbrogers | Seriously, how do you expect to have good SEO when everything is on index.php? |
| 17:34.40 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: simple. They tack on the entire title of the article and other random crap to every URL |
| 17:35.52 | wps | TuxToaster, they're pulling cat5 downstairs today |
| 17:35.57 | wps | the new space is almost ready |
| 17:36.25 | TuxToaster | yay! |
| 17:36.29 | wps | holy cow… big mistake |
| 17:36.39 | wps | I ate a bag of jalapeño chips |
| 17:36.42 | wps | my mouth is on fire |
| 17:36.43 | captbrogers | lol |
| 17:36.44 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 17:37.07 | TuxToaster | yeah, Christi was eating a bag of them the other night during a meeting. |
| 17:37.10 | wps | I tested a couple chips and thought… hmm… they're not too hot |
| 17:37.20 | wps | but now… it's getting hotter |
| 17:37.23 | wps | starting to sweat a little |
| 17:37.33 | TuxToaster | ~spicy wps |
| 17:38.29 | wps | lesson learned |
| 17:38.58 | TuxToaster | hopefully they'll have downstairs mostly finished by mid-January |
| 17:39.44 | TuxToaster | depending on what Carmony decides to do we might be having the next UPHPU meeting down there :-) |
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| 17:48.15 | SunSparc | john_anderson: pong |
| 17:49.20 | SunSparc | wps: It gets better if you eat more of them. :) |
| 17:49.29 | wps | I'm sure |
| 17:50.12 | SunSparc | :) |
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| 18:39.06 | SunSparc | Thanks wps, now I am craving jalapeno chips. |
| 18:39.39 | wps | how I wish google fiber was in utah |
| 18:39.50 | wps | well… actually… not google fiber |
| 18:39.54 | wps | just fiber fiber |
| 18:40.05 | wps | I don't want to the google bear |
| 18:48.51 | beandog | ~give wps a bran muffin |
| 18:48.51 | ibot | ACTION gives a bran muffin to wps |
| 18:49.06 | wps | I knew that that was coming |
| 18:50.11 | wps | why is the cursor not in the search box when you load amazon.com? |
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| 18:50.48 | herlo | wps: because people like me like to scroll |
| 18:51.10 | wps | how would that prevent you from scrolling? |
| 18:51.33 | wps | I guess it prevents you from using your up/down arrows, but not scrolling |
| 18:54.36 | mindjuju_ | i'm not a big fan of auto dump my cursor somewhere, i seem to tripon that twice daily |
| 18:54.43 | mindjuju_ | sup bean |
| 18:54.46 | mindjuju_ | oops, beandog |
| 18:54.50 | mindjuju_ | autocomplete fial |
| 18:54.59 | poeticintensity | beandog? Is it really you? |
| 18:55.10 | beandog | in the flash |
| 18:55.21 | poeticintensity | or in a flask? |
| 18:55.24 | mindjuju_ | uh, does that mean you just flashed PI? |
| 18:55.31 | poeticintensity | he just flasked me. |
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| 18:56.13 | optikal | wps: I prefer that too but if you're using Chrome, I enter this in my address bar for a quick site search: amazon.com<space>search query |
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| 18:57.06 | josephscott | autofocus on form fields can be really useful in some cases |
| 18:57.14 | josephscott | prime example being a sign in page |
| 18:57.44 | optikal | When is it not useful? |
| 18:58.06 | josephscott | when it isn't clear that the form field is always the first action someone is going to take |
| 18:58.17 | optikal | I'm curious how mindjuju_ said he trips on it regularly... |
| 18:58.52 | josephscott | I've used autofocus="autofocus" for a few places with HTML5, has worked nicely when used reasonably |
| 18:58.58 | optikal | Amazon for example. Some will go and search, some will just click through. What's the harm in autofocusing the search field on load? |
| 18:59.44 | optikal | Even if I'm a clicker, it doesn't affect me that it has focus. The only inconvenience I'd see is people who use keyboard for navigation/hotkeys, but usually a quick ESC or TAB will fix that |
| 18:59.56 | wps | exactly, optikal |
| 19:00.14 | wps | I'm willing to bet that substantially larger percentage search over those that arrow down |
| 19:00.56 | josephscott | I'm sure you could track stats for that to determine what most people do first and then improve that experience |
| 19:01.48 | beandog | poeticintensity: heh, hows it going |
| 19:01.56 | josephscott | and amazon is big enough that it would be worth doing |
| 19:02.10 | poeticintensity | going well.. This week is gonna be nutso, but going well. |
| 19:02.20 | beandog | optikal: the harm is that if you scroll up or down with the keyboard, it doesn't work |
| 19:02.21 | poeticintensity | Probably gonna start moving into our new home on Friday. |
| 19:02.22 | tierra | optikal: if you use <tab> instead of <space>, you can skip typing out the whole site domain entirely too... I often use "wiki<tab>wikipedia search terms" |
| 19:02.49 | tierra | also works well with "ama<tab>some product" |
| 19:02.58 | beandog | optikal: but I'll admit, that's a stretch -_- |
| 19:03.30 | optikal | tierra: oh hay, I didnt know about tab. That's awesome, thanks |
| 19:04.49 | optikal | beandog: Yeah, and I guess it's not safe to assume anyone that's scrolling with arrows would know to hit tab to jump out of the input field |
| 19:05.07 | beandog | I actually just hit space to scroll |
| 19:05.12 | optikal | Yeah same |
| 19:05.12 | beandog | and shift space to go back up |
| 19:05.13 | beandog | sometimes. |
| 19:05.18 | beandog | shift tab is nice too |
| 19:05.44 | optikal | I just taught that to one of my friends who's been a software engineer for years. He saw em hit space to scroll and it blew his mind |
| 19:05.52 | optikal | *me |
| 19:06.05 | beandog | mind. blown. |
| 19:21.00 | SunSparc | josephscott: sweet! |
| 19:21.16 | SunSparc | I love finding new HTML5 goodness. Like "placeholder". |
| 19:21.53 | beandog | what's autofocus |
| 19:22.32 | SunSparc | beandog: puts the focus on that field. |
| 19:22.47 | beandog | Oh okay |
| 19:22.49 | SunSparc | Great for logins and search forms. |
| 19:22.55 | beandog | oh instead of doing it in JS? |
| 19:22.59 | beandog | is it just a tag or what |
| 19:23.34 | captbrogers | It goes on input/textarea tags |
| 19:23.39 | captbrogers | It's an HTML5 thing |
| 19:23.46 | SunSparc | beandog: correct |
| 19:24.09 | beandog | oh, nice. |
| 19:24.23 | captbrogers | So you could use: <input type="text" autofocus> |
| 19:25.24 | josephscott | SunSparc: placeholder is another good one |
| 19:25.45 | captbrogers | josephscott: agreed. That is a very helpful one |
| 19:26.09 | SunSparc | Yep :) |
| 19:26.16 | josephscott | that said, I don't like forms that only use placeholder text with no label anywhere on the outside of the field to indicate what it is |
| 19:26.24 | captbrogers | Though in some cases it can make the label for an input a little redundant |
| 19:26.50 | josephscott | in some cases you can get away with no label, but probably only on very simple forms |
| 19:27.08 | josephscott | too each to get forget what the field is if you get distracted in the middle of filling one out |
| 19:27.09 | captbrogers | Yeah, though for most it is best to have them. Clarity |
| 19:27.22 | josephscott | s/each/easy/ |
| 19:27.38 | SunSparc | I like them for login forms. |
| 19:28.17 | SunSparc | Not much need for more labeling than a placeholder on a form with two common fields. |
| 19:28.43 | SunSparc | Unless it is a fancy looking form as well as being functional. |
| 19:28.46 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:28.56 | captbrogers | They are great for sign-up forms as well. I usually keep them strictly to what I would give as an example. If you are trying to replace the label tag with placeholder, you're doing it wrong |
| 19:30.29 | captbrogers | And as of IE10, the "big three" all support them |
| 19:30.57 | captbrogers | I think |
| 19:31.03 | captbrogers | Or that may be the autofocus |
| 19:31.51 | captbrogers | No wait, I was right. IE 10+, FF 15+, Chrome 22+ |
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| 19:48.28 | SunSparc | Unless IE has decided to support industry standards for HTML and CSS. |
| 19:54.34 | captbrogers | SunSparc: They are slowly coming around, IE9 was a huge improvement over 8, and 10 is adopting more |
| 19:54.50 | captbrogers | Just not sure that they like no longer being the standard |
| 19:58.41 | SunSparc | captbrogers: Well, it is heartening to see that their usage stats continue to decline. |
| 19:59.03 | captbrogers | Last month they bumped up by a percent, so did Firefox but Chrome fell a little |
| 19:59.07 | captbrogers | If I recall correctly |
| 19:59.16 | captbrogers | But they are still hovering above 50% |
| 20:00.41 | SunSparc | Perhaps if developers would start implementing my favorite bit of markup: http://pastebin.com/w4ky929m |
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| 20:02.04 | captbrogers | I may be wrong, looks like according to statcounter.com, IE is below 50% (combined) Chrome just barely got above 24% and Firefox holds ~20% |
| 20:03.03 | SunSparc | ~lart IE |
| 20:03.03 | ibot | hereby declares IE a troll |
| 20:03.14 | SunSparc | ibot: IE is a bit more than a troll. |
| 20:03.14 | ibot | ...but ie is already something else... |
| 20:03.25 | SunSparc | I know, many other things. |
| 20:04.01 | SunSparc | ibot: What is IE? |
| 20:04.01 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, ie is the domain suffix for Ireland, or Internet Explorer, or the browser of the Devil, or the worst browser in the entire universe and it should be eliminated by any means possible, or the spawn of evil, nay all evil spawns from ie |
| 20:04.46 | captbrogers | SunSparc: I really shy away from the "upgrade to a better browser!" stuff. Especially when Chrome is pushed. To me, "works best in Chrome" is the new "website best viewed in IE" |
| 20:05.00 | captbrogers | If they are using that browser, odds are they are doing so for a reason |
| 20:05.08 | captbrogers | Either they can't upgrade, or don't know how |
| 20:05.24 | captbrogers | If they know how to upgrade but choose not to, then they get a crappy version and can deal with it |
| 20:05.58 | SunSparc | Got any better ideas? ;) |
| 20:06.48 | SunSparc | A trojan for Windows users that removes IE and replaces it with a better browser using a skin that makes it look like IE :) |
| 20:06.51 | captbrogers | Let people have their choice. So long as the website is functional, it doesn't have to be pretty. If people want to see your website as you intend it, then they can upgrade. If they don't know how, I wonder if those kinds of people would be visiting your website |
| 20:07.17 | captbrogers | I thought you couldn't remove IE because it's baked into the core of Windows as their file explorer |
| 20:07.32 | SunSparc | captbrogers: A person can only make a choice if knows there is one and has a reason to make it. |
| 20:07.39 | captbrogers | Now installing Firefox/Chrome and having it set to default with a skin of IE might work |
| 20:08.48 | captbrogers | I agree, knowledge is power and all that. My opinion is limited to what I work on, but every case I've had to ask myself that question it always comes down to the user base is smart enough to know better. If they aren't using an up-to-date browser, it's their own fault and I'm not going to spend time/energy/bandwidth trying to help them |
| 20:09.51 | SunSparc | If I am using the time/energy/bandwidth already on trying to install IE hacks into my HTML/CSS I would rather spend that time educating users. |
| 20:09.58 | captbrogers | I can't imagine that a grandma with IE7 is going to be coming to ksl.com for their news, I'd bet they would get the paper or watch it on TV. If they are savvy enough to use a web browser, I'd imagine either they know how to keep it up to date, or they have a family member that will |
| 20:10.48 | captbrogers | Thankfully I haven't had to do that. My employers have adopted the Google attitude of browser support. They support latest and one version behind |
| 20:10.57 | captbrogers | So I don't have to support IE 8 or lower |
| 20:11.09 | SunSparc | Nice. |
| 20:11.27 | captbrogers | So all the pesky hacks, I don't deal with. I did at Overstock and those were murder on my sanity |
| 20:11.39 | SunSparc | Amen |
| 20:12.00 | captbrogers | I remember when they finally green-lit us to drop support on IE 6. My team about cried, and I'm pretty sure we got cake to celebrate it |
| 20:12.20 | SunSparc | Yes, that was a wonderful day in history. |
| 20:12.48 | captbrogers | They waited until we were around 2% usage though |
| 20:12.54 | SunSparc | I hope that I never make a product that gets celebrated upon retirement. |
| 20:13.17 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: lol |
| 20:13.23 | fungus | captbrogers, not quite accurate. Several of my old-fogey extended family are using IE 7 and absolutely love browsing the KSL classifieds. |
| 20:13.52 | fungus | I even think one or more of them are using IE 6 |
| 20:14.27 | SunSparc | I dare not even visit the computers of my famiy members. |
| 20:14.31 | TuxToaster | actually I just bought something this weekend from the classifieds, and the seller was an older couple |
| 20:14.40 | captbrogers | The problem was that it was the standard circa 2000. IE 6 had something like 98% usage. Everyone built their sites around it. Suddenly Firefox came out with a standards approach and got a great reception, but no one wanted to redo their entire site after all the work |
| 20:15.01 | TuxToaster | she even went in and marked it as sold so seems to be a little more savvy than you'd think |
| 20:15.02 | captbrogers | fungus: I hold you responsible for not upgrading them. You're punishment packet will be sent out to you shortly |
| 20:15.24 | fungus | captbrogers, Firefox and suddenly? No. Firefox was and still is based on Mozilla work which is even older than IE |
| 20:15.31 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:15.36 | TuxToaster | Vivint's corporate browser was IE7 until not long ago |
| 20:15.52 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Seriously? |
| 20:16.06 | SunSparc | Their CTO should be publicly flogged. |
| 20:16.14 | captbrogers | fungus: I know it was, and it was actually 'Mozilla' browser for a while, but around FF 2 (in my eyes and memory) it came out of no where and many people I knew were switching |
| 20:16.17 | TuxToaster | yup. Most of the non-tech guys use IE |
| 20:16.18 | fungus | captbrogers, bovine feces! I refuse to be the IT guy for my extended family. Heck I often whine about being the IT guy for my own parents. |
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| 20:16.49 | SunSparc | fungus: so true |
| 20:17.05 | captbrogers | fungus: I got out of being tech support. This comic explains how: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/05/07 |
| 20:17.06 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: not sure what the exact reason for delaying the move was, but I'm assuming there was some product that was being used that wasn't compatible with later versions or some such. |
| 20:17.12 | SunSparc | Though when I do tech support, I usually try to get them into a new browser. |
| 20:17.43 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Of course. :) |
| 20:17.56 | captbrogers | slightly explicit language in that comic, but no f-bombs |
| 20:18.16 | fungus | I just tell everyone that asks, "I don't do Windows". |
| 20:18.19 | mgeary | captbrogers: i just truthfully tell friends and family that i'm a complete idiot at Windows |
| 20:18.22 | mgeary | fungus: ^5 |
| 20:18.32 | mgeary | i don't mind giving moderate Mac support |
| 20:18.38 | TuxToaster | I don't usually do tech support, but when I do, I pour iron filings on the motherboard and ensure an upgrade in the near future. |
| 20:18.48 | captbrogers | I don't give support unless I have to, but that is rare |
| 20:19.03 | fungus | nice one TuxToaster |
| 20:19.22 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: lol |
| 20:20.13 | TuxToaster | :-) |
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| 20:28.21 | TuxToaster | on the bright side, I ended up getting one of those pool/air hockey/ping pong tables still new in the box for $100 |
| 20:28.44 | TuxToaster | it's always nice when people have something they don't use and underprice it on KSL. :P |
| 20:46.47 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Nice! Garage sales are good for that also. |
| 20:47.42 | TuxToaster | yup |
| 20:48.10 | TuxToaster | I find some crazy deals that way. |
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| 22:20.28 | josephscott | $rlart |
| 22:20.29 | raifbot | keeps mailing peno free America Online CDs until he drowns. |
| 22:20.51 | josephscott | it warms my heart to see an empty support ticket queue :-) |
| 22:23.20 | ninnypants | $rlart |
| 22:23.21 | raifbot | beats jnbek over the head with a microkernel. |
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| 23:13.34 | beandog | 2nd result, too |
| 23:13.40 | carmony | what did you search? |
| 23:13.44 | carmony | "php developers that stink" |
| 23:13.45 | carmony | ? :P |
| 23:13.54 | beandog | percona ubuntu 10.04 |
| 23:14.00 | carmony | nice |
| 23:14.40 | beandog | I want a search engine that excludes searches from mailing lists. |
| 23:14.47 | beandog | Mailing lists have the worst web interface ever. |
| 23:15.07 | beandog | carmony: fix it |
| 23:15.23 | carmony | lol |
| 23:15.24 | carmony | gah |
| 23:15.27 | carmony | ~lolstats |
| 23:15.27 | ibot | total count of lol on #uphpu: 5321. Top 3: TuxToaster -- 1035 (19.5%), SunSparc -- 582 (10.9%), herlo -- 580 (10.9%) |
| 23:15.29 | carmony | whew |
| 23:15.32 | beandog | heh |
| 23:15.33 | carmony | ~lolstats carmony |
| 23:15.33 | ibot | carmony has said lol 562 times (10.6 %), ranked 4/124 (percentile: 3.2 %) |
| 23:15.34 | beandog | carmonly lol'd |
| 23:15.41 | beandog | ~lolstats beandog |
| 23:15.41 | ibot | beandog has said lol 472 times (8.9 %), ranked 6/124 (percentile: 4.8 %) |
| 23:15.44 | beandog | I've been away |
| 23:15.45 | beandog | :( |
| 23:18.51 | TuxToaster | $lart carmony |
| 23:18.52 | raifbot | takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in carmony's direction, hitting carmony and sending carmony flying into the closet. |
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| 23:21.13 | josephscott | haha, two tickets, both random spam junk |
| 23:21.38 | josephscott | $lart TuxToaster |
| 23:21.38 | raifbot | beats TuxToaster over the head with a microkernel. |
| 23:21.42 | josephscott | ~spam TuxToaster |
| 23:21.42 | ibot | ACTION subscribes TuxToaster to every possible mailing list he can find on the 'net AND arranges for TuxToaster to get at least 50 snail mail spams a day |
| 23:22.06 | TuxToaster | ~flood josephscott |
| 23:22.07 | ibot | ACTION blasts josephscott with a huge firehose then strangles josephscott with it |
| 23:22.34 | TuxToaster | I would have sent spam, but I know Akismet would have thwarted me |
| 23:23.25 | josephscott | ~akismet++ |
| 23:24.21 | josephscott | $8ball do I break free of the firehose? |
| 23:24.21 | raifbot | josephscott - Very doubtful. |
| 23:24.25 | josephscott | hmmmm |
| 23:24.33 | josephscott | $rm firehose |
| 23:24.33 | raifbot | opens /dev/null and eliminates firehose forever. |
| 23:24.39 | josephscott | $8ball what about now? |
| 23:24.39 | raifbot | josephscott - Very doubtful. |
| 23:24.42 | josephscott | dang |
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