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| 15:38.11 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 15:38.12 | raifbot | gives fridgesm an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending fridgesm to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple. |
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| 15:52.20 | itimber | hey guys |
| 15:52.34 | itimber | has anyone ever messed w/ MODx before? |
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| 16:21.43 | TuxToaster | itimber: not I |
| 16:22.14 | TuxToaster | I know it's had a few vulnerabilities that have hit people |
| 16:23.09 | TuxToaster | I'm always a little leery of lesser-known CMS solutions because stuff like that may be harder to spot if you don't have a good community of people checking for them |
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| 16:30.20 | tierra | well, despite how solid something like WordPress is, it's still all thrown out the window the second you install your first plugin, so that's debatable |
| 16:30.55 | tierra | actually, in the case of WordPress, either a plugin or a new theme (since themes are written in PHP, and have all the same power plugins have) |
| 16:31.51 | tierra | at least with MODx, it looks like they use a template engine, though I'm not sure which or if it's actually a secure one |
| 16:33.47 | TuxToaster | tierra: true that. |
| 16:34.04 | TuxToaster | I guess my point in general though was that even WP or Joomla have vulnerabilities |
| 16:34.30 | TuxToaster | but with the large adoption you have people identifying those fairly quickly, good notification that they exist and decent response times on getting them fixed |
| 16:35.07 | TuxToaster | where the smaller CMS platforms you may not have any of those, and the vulnerabilities can be quite serious if they haven't had a good QA process |
| 16:35.37 | TuxToaster | on the flip side you do get a lot more and better hacking attempts aimed at larger ones simply because they are so common though |
| 16:36.02 | tierra | true |
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| 16:39.00 | tierra | hmmm, that's a wierd template engine... I don't recognize it: "[[!Wayfinder? &startId=`0`]]" |
| 16:39.13 | tierra | [[*content]] |
| 16:39.19 | tierra | [[$copyright]] |
| 16:40.02 | TuxToaster | if they were {{ }} I'd say Smarty |
| 16:40.12 | tierra | yeah, definitely not Smarty |
| 16:40.14 | tierra | [[*introtext:stripTags:ellipsis=`400`]] |
| 16:40.22 | tierra | not Twig either though |
| 16:40.22 | TuxToaster | could be a custom written one as well |
| 16:40.22 | clintberry | ModX? |
| 16:40.28 | tierra | looks like it's custom |
| 16:40.36 | tierra | clintberry: yeah |
| 16:41.02 | tierra | TuxToaster: heh, actually it does have {{ chunk }} |
| 16:41.05 | tierra | heh |
| 16:41.23 | clintberry | I thought I recognized that syntax |
| 16:41.26 | TuxToaster | ~eval MODx |
| 16:41.54 | tierra | it relies *very* heavily on symbols for template operations, I don't like this at all... [[~[[*id]]? &scheme=`full`]] |
| 16:42.02 | TuxToaster | eww |
| 16:42.16 | tierra | that's one incredibly confusing template engine |
| 16:42.19 | TuxToaster | forget the code implications... that would suck as a user to have to understand it |
| 16:43.19 | TuxToaster | looks like that's attempting to implement a psuedo ternary... if the value of id is true then change the scheme to full... but ugly. |
| 16:43.54 | tierra | yeah, just ridiculously ugly |
| 16:44.33 | tierra | template engines are supposed to be clear and readable since they tend to be forced on non-developers much more frequently |
| 16:45.07 | tierra | Twig and Liquid both do a great job with that |
| 16:45.28 | tierra | Smarty doesn't, but this is way worse than Smarty even |
| 16:45.52 | TuxToaster | Smarty was pretty decent when I used it... |
| 16:45.57 | TuxToaster | in 2004. |
| 16:46.25 | TuxToaster | unfortunately it hasnt changed much since |
| 16:46.43 | clintberry | I don't know if I would consider what ModX does to be a templating engine. It is more of a sudo code thing. Modx vision was a cool idea, but learning it well was a huge undertaking and after setting up 2 sites on it I was back to wordpress. Especially since wordpress introduced custom post types |
| 16:47.41 | tierra | even Perl Template Toolkit is better, heh |
| 16:48.37 | tierra | (better than MODx templates, I think Smarty is better than TT though) |
| 16:51.38 | tierra | clintberry: yeah, this must be a non-secure template engine more like for the same purposes as ERB is for Ruby |
| 16:52.08 | tierra | but hey, even ERB is way cleaner than this, heh |
| 16:53.08 | tierra | just because it's for programmers doesn't mean it has to be confusing as hell ;) |
| 16:53.30 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 16:53.39 | clintberry | Agreed |
| 16:53.41 | clintberry | not worth it |
| 16:57.48 | josephscott | $rlart |
| 16:57.49 | raifbot | duct-tapes TuxToaster to the floor and drools on him. |
| 16:58.00 | TuxToaster | doh! |
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| 17:07.07 | itimber | just got back from lunch…. |
| 17:07.33 | itimber | thanks TuxToaster, tierra, clintberry |
| 17:07.39 | itimber | good thoughts |
| 17:09.22 | itimber | yeah, I thought the templating engine was ugly too… so for most calls, I'm not requiring they enter anything: [[leftnav]] [[newsbox]] |
| 17:10.52 | tierra | just realized I hit on template engines between 3 different languages (PHP, Ruby, Perl)... guess I could extend that to C++ - Google has one of the few and only reasonable template engines they open sourced called cTemplate: http://code.google.com/p/ctemplate |
| 17:11.13 | tierra | I used that in Phoenix Project Manager for reports |
| 17:11.23 | tierra | (you can build your own report templates) |
| 17:12.24 | tierra | the usefulness of template engines in C/C++ is so close to nil, there's not many options there |
| 17:14.48 | tierra | for Python, Django templates look almost exactly like ERB in Ruby |
| 17:15.14 | tierra | er, actually more like Liquid |
| 17:15.32 | tierra | but it's not a "safe" template language |
| 17:18.59 | tierra | oh, Django templates do actually run in a sandboxed environment, so I guess they are mostly safe |
| 17:21.48 | tierra | I've looked around for ways to sandbox various PHP template engines before, but the closest you can get is using the runkit sandbox, but it's just a super hacky way, and very prone to problems |
| 17:22.06 | TuxToaster | "It emphasizes separating logic from presentation: it is impossible to embed application logic in this template language." <-- so... if you need to do some logic like looping or iterating or testing for conditions in the view.... |
| 17:22.29 | tierra | in MODx? |
| 17:22.40 | TuxToaster | that was in that C++ one you linked |
| 17:23.02 | TuxToaster | just seems odd... to me the power of templating is making stuff like that easy to achieve |
| 17:23.03 | itimber | I know I'm probably odd… but I like to just enable short tags, and have a well established naming convention |
| 17:23.17 | itimber | <?= $page['title'] ?> |
| 17:23.27 | itimber | hahaha |
| 17:23.31 | TuxToaster | $lart itimber |
| 17:23.32 | raifbot | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking itimber's head off. |
| 17:23.33 | tierra | yeah, cTemplate is very limited... you can do "if" logic though |
| 17:23.38 | itimber | haha |
| 17:23.44 | itimber | okay |
| 17:23.51 | itimber | like I said, I'm probably just odd |
| 17:23.56 | TuxToaster | itimber: a well established convention is good |
| 17:23.59 | TuxToaster | short tags, not so much |
| 17:24.02 | itimber | k |
| 17:24.08 | tierra | $lart itimber |
| 17:24.08 | raifbot | burns itimber to a crisp with a laser. |
| 17:24.16 | itimber | but how is that more/less user friendly for a designer |
| 17:24.18 | itimber | it's not |
| 17:24.22 | itimber | neither is friendly |
| 17:24.27 | TuxToaster | mostly because then you run into problems with XML and other things |
| 17:24.30 | itimber | ${{title}} |
| 17:24.43 | itimber | oh, well, yeah |
| 17:25.18 | TuxToaster | I get having to have an identifier of some kind... actually MediaWiki's syntax is fairly easy for most people to grasp |
| 17:26.28 | TuxToaster | I think most of these use {{ and [[ and such simply on the assumption that it's unlikely you'd have them in your view otherwise |
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| 17:27.38 | itimber1 | yeah |
| 17:28.27 | itimber1 | SunSparc: what do you use to separate logic from view? |
| 17:28.39 | tierra | btw, <?= ?> always works in PHP, you don't need to enable short tags for it |
| 17:28.46 | tierra | in 5.4+ |
| 17:29.43 | TuxToaster | oh really? |
| 17:29.58 | TuxToaster | interesting. |
| 17:31.04 | SunSparc | itimber1: the MVC model. |
| 17:31.29 | TuxToaster | the time when I used Smarty was because I developed an app that would take data from a database and generate a handful of static HTML files to be served as a prebuilt website... in that case templating made sense to me since it was likely that designers and others would be creating themes |
| 17:31.46 | SunSparc | PHP is already a great templating language. No need to have another. |
| 17:32.03 | TuxToaster | otherwise I typically keep the logic in the view to a minimum where possible |
| 17:32.17 | Bikerdan | Off topic: If you guys were given $100 for your birthday, what would you do with it? |
| 17:32.25 | SunSparc | Right, logic goes in the controller. |
| 17:32.40 | SunSparc | Bikerdan: Give it to my wife. ;) |
| 17:32.54 | TuxToaster | at work our framework actually sandboxes views, so the view basically only has the variables that you pass into it |
| 17:32.58 | SunSparc | That is where all my money goes. |
| 17:33.07 | herlo | SunSparc: that is a shame |
| 17:33.08 | Bikerdan | SunSparc: That's awfully nice of you. |
| 17:33.19 | SunSparc | lol |
| 17:33.53 | herlo | or even give all my money |
| 17:34.05 | tierra | TuxToaster: I know all the PHP web frameworks *scope* the views, but calling it a sandbox would be highly incorrect |
| 17:34.49 | SunSparc | Bikerdan: $100 is not really enough for most things I want. Though I suppose going out to a nice restaurant would be fun, or getting somethings off my Amazon wishlist. |
| 17:35.14 | tierra | i.e. the view is included within the eval_view() function with only the necessary view variables pulled in |
| 17:35.36 | Bikerdan | SunSparc: I'm in the same boat. I have expensive tastes and hobbies... |
| 17:35.55 | tierra | but you could technically pull in any other global or singleton or mess with superglobals, etc... |
| 17:36.27 | Bikerdan | SunSparc: What kinds of things do you have on your Amazon wishlist? |
| 17:36.59 | TuxToaster | tierra: true. |
| 17:38.12 | TuxToaster | with our framework then there are very few globals set, though... and some of the superglobals are actually unset |
| 17:38.33 | TuxToaster | though obviously that doesn't change the fact that the view still can do anything PHP can interpret |
| 17:39.17 | TuxToaster | just that it can't do much with the data the rest of the app is using as easily |
| 17:40.52 | tierra | yeah, if that's a concern, that's where most template engines define the "safe" boundary... if arbitrary code can be called, it's "unsafe" (Smarty, ERB, HAML, strait PHP - ugh), and if it can't, it's "safe" (Twig, Liquid, cTemplate, etc) |
| 17:42.20 | tierra | there's no point to sandboxing a "safe" template engine, and sandboxing an "unsafe" template engine really still doesn't make that much of a difference, but certainly helps |
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| 17:43.13 | TuxToaster | it's actually somewhat surprising that PHP doesn't offer a built in method to effectively include or run another php file that only has access to variables that are given to it |
| 17:44.14 | macnewbold | yeah, that kind of sandboxing would be nice |
| 17:44.21 | TuxToaster | seems like it really wouldn't be that difficult to have a function that could basically interpret a file but ignore certain things like superglobals |
| 17:44.29 | macnewbold | there's a pretty good way to emulate it by doing the include inside a closure, |
| 17:44.29 | TuxToaster | or even optionally ignore them |
| 17:44.31 | tierra | oh yeah, and one more incredibly important point everyone should get out of this discussion if you pull anything away from this: If you store your templates in a database, *never* use an unsafe template engine - you should *always* use a safe template engine like Twig if you're going to do that |
| 17:44.57 | macnewbold | but globals can be accessed with global $foo, and superglobals are available |
| 17:45.34 | tierra | TuxToaster: that is what runkit sandbox is for |
| 17:46.08 | tierra | including arbitrary PHP (either from a string or from a file) while still allowing you to pass in specific variables |
| 17:46.31 | tierra | but I'm not sure how many systems/hosts runkit is available on |
| 17:46.40 | TuxToaster | heh, so why isn't it used more often? I didn't realize that's what it did |
| 17:46.44 | macnewbold | oh, does it need some special stuff on the server? |
| 17:46.59 | TuxToaster | it probably just needs to be compiled in to php |
| 17:47.10 | TuxToaster | many shared hosts don't even give you the imap extension, etc. |
| 17:48.08 | tierra | yeah, sandboxing is only available in 5.1+ and PHP must be compiled with --enable-maintainer-zts |
| 17:48.36 | TuxToaster | I had thought runkit was similar to suexec, allowing you to run a script in a type of jail, but hadn't looked at it in detail |
| 17:48.41 | tierra | it's a PECL extension that isn't bundled with PHP |
| 17:48.55 | TuxToaster | ~tierra++ |
| 17:49.29 | DexterTheDragon | <3 Twig |
| 17:49.39 | tierra | DexterTheDragon: it's my favorite for PHP :) |
| 17:50.06 | SunSparc | Bikerdan: Mostly book. You can see the list here: http://amzn.com/w/32XDG8QSHITTN |
| 17:51.19 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: To you mean the webmail app, Twig? |
| 17:51.59 | SunSparc | Oh, I see, templating engine. |
| 17:52.18 | Bikerdan | SunSparc: Thx. I'll take a look. |
| 17:52.41 | SunSparc | Enjoy :) |
| 17:53.08 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: Did you see Dragon 9 Launch last night? |
| 17:54.03 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: no, I was offline and wasn't paying attention to time |
| 17:54.09 | Bikerdan | SunSparc: We seem to have very similar taste. |
| 17:54.47 | SunSparc | ~Bikerdan++ |
| 17:54.56 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 17:55.11 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRTYh71D9P0 |
| 17:55.22 | Bikerdan | ~SunSparc++ |
| 17:55.38 | SunSparc | Woot! :) |
| 17:56.41 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: nice. thanks. |
| 17:56.58 | SunSparc | Yep |
| 17:58.18 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: wow, they had an engine explode |
| 17:58.46 | mindjuju | i was just reading that, at 1:30 |
| 17:59.03 | SunSparc | What?! |
| 17:59.13 | mindjuju | your link |
| 17:59.13 | DexterTheDragon | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y6zsZiVa998 |
| 17:59.58 | mindjuju | at 1:30 the primary engine failed, but all other engines were good so they burned them longer and they recovered |
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| 18:00.34 | SunSparc | Wow, did not notice that before. |
| 18:00.48 | SunSparc | There were 9 engines though. |
| 18:00.51 | mindjuju | yeah DtD link is good to show |
| 18:01.13 | mindjuju | happens right at :29 in his link |
| 18:01.25 | DexterTheDragon | yeah it's designed to reach orbit on 8 engines |
| 18:01.41 | DexterTheDragon | not good to lose one, but nice to see everything worked |
| 18:01.48 | tierra | they did have a satellite payload that didn't reach it's target orbit because of it though :/ |
| 18:01.48 | mindjuju | prolly big enough explosion to roast your marshmellows PDQ |
| 18:02.30 | DexterTheDragon | tierra: wasn't that on the Falcon 1? |
| 18:02.55 | tierra | na, it was on Falcon 9 |
| 18:05.57 | tierra | DexterTheDragon: it was the "prototype second-generation Orbcomm satellite" mentioned here: http://www.spacenews.com/satellite_telecom/120810-orbcomm-competition-ais.html |
| 18:09.17 | SunSparc | Did you guys see this yet? http://youtu.be/VCqnQq86fkY |
| 18:13.32 | herlo | wow, to go mach 1.2 |
| 18:13.44 | herlo | that would be *awesome* |
| 18:13.55 | SunSparc | Yeah, that would be totally awesome!! |
| 18:14.02 | herlo | :D |
| 18:14.50 | herlo | haha |
| 18:17.11 | DexterTheDragon | tierra: I'm seeing mixed reports. News outlets are reporting the Orbcomm Sat was successfully depolyed. There's just one dude on facebook saying that the upper stage failed to burn and so it's in the wrong orbit |
| 18:17.26 | DexterTheDragon | but if the upper stage failed then the dragon wouldn't be in the proper orbit either |
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| 18:19.29 | tierra | DexterTheDragon: http://www.universetoday.com/97753/falcon-9-experienced-engine-anamoly-but-kept-going-to-orbit/ |
| 18:19.42 | tierra | oh, I see |
| 18:19.55 | tierra | yeah, it does just reference a Facebook status update, heh |
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| 19:03.06 | TuxToaster | hmm |
| 19:03.14 | TuxToaster | macnewbold or anyone else... |
| 19:03.26 | TuxToaster | how long is reasonable to expect PHP to take to render a view |
| 19:04.09 | DexterTheDragon | ~1ms |
| 19:04.21 | TuxToaster | that's what I'd think |
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| 19:04.49 | TuxToaster | right now I'm doing some microtime points to see why the page sometimes is slow on an initial load |
| 19:05.21 | TuxToaster | and it's looking like it's in the part where I include a view file and display it that's taking up the most time |
| 19:06.51 | TuxToaster | digging and adding some additional times |
| 19:07.06 | TuxToaster | but what's strange is it seems to be slowest on an initial load, subsequent loads are fine |
| 19:12.50 | macnewbold | on a server with apc? |
| 19:12.58 | macnewbold | and the view is a php file? |
| 19:13.14 | macnewbold | could be compile taking a while, but i don't see how if it has minimal php in it |
| 19:13.15 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: pretty sure I installed apc, yes. and yes. |
| 19:13.24 | TuxToaster | I actually found one potential flaw |
| 19:13.44 | TuxToaster | I was subtracting the initial load time from the time when the view was finished rendering |
| 19:13.54 | TuxToaster | but there still could have been other service calls happening between those |
| 19:14.07 | TuxToaster | so I added another time check immediately before it's called |
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| 19:33.56 | mgeary | ~rlart |
| 19:33.56 | ibot | shoots stderr- in the head |
| 19:34.01 | mgeary | jeeze |
| 19:34.05 | mgeary | so violent, ibot |
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| 19:47.47 | josephscott | $save stderr- |
| 19:47.47 | raifbot | runs into a burning building and saves stderr- from certain death. Is that enough? |
| 19:48.39 | TuxToaster | $8ball was it enough? |
| 19:48.39 | raifbot | TuxToaster - My reply is no. |
| 19:48.46 | TuxToaster | ~mourn stderr- |
| 19:48.46 | ibot | ACTION lights some candles for stderr- |
| 19:56.15 | stderr- | Well that's a little creepy. |
| 19:58.34 | SunSparc | Whoa, the ghost of stderr- has spoken! |
| 19:58.41 | TuxToaster | !! |
| 20:01.37 | SunSparc | ~rfart |
| 20:01.37 | ibot | ACTION farts in the general direction of PoeticIntensity |
| 20:02.10 | SunSparc | ~give PoeticIntensity a gas mask |
| 20:02.10 | ibot | ACTION gives a gas mask to PoeticIntensity |
| 20:02.19 | PoeticIntensity | how dare you.... |
| 20:02.37 | SunSparc | Ok, I will hang onto the gas mask then. :) |
| 20:02.39 | PoeticIntensity | you must be french. :) |
| 20:02.46 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 20:02.54 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:03.11 | PoeticIntensity | How you doing these days, SunSparc ? |
| 20:03.46 | SunSparc | If I am what I eat, then I admit to being part French, having eaten French fries. |
| 20:03.52 | SunSparc | PoeticIntensity: I am doing well. :) |
| 20:04.02 | SunSparc | Not dead yet. |
| 20:04.03 | mindjuju | are the french reputated to flatuate frequently or whose flatulence is especially malodorous? |
| 20:04.16 | mindjuju | i have to admit, i had not heard |
| 20:04.31 | SunSparc | Good question. PoeticIntensity? |
| 20:05.05 | SunSparc | Perhaps he just mean it was very rude to fart in the general direction of someone. Rude is known to be a French characteristic. |
| 20:05.31 | mindjuju | ;) |
| 20:05.32 | PoeticIntensity | ha! nice, mindjuju |
| 20:05.32 | PoeticIntensity | referencing the Holy Grail, is all... |
| 20:05.44 | SunSparc | heh |
| 20:05.47 | PoeticIntensity | "...or I will taunt you a second time-ah!" |
| 20:05.48 | mindjuju | ah the Grail |
| 20:05.54 | mindjuju | so PI, you mean this |
| 20:05.56 | SunSparc | They said they've already got one! |
| 20:05.59 | mindjuju | ~frenchtaunt PI |
| 20:05.59 | ibot | ACTION summons the french taunter! PI, I burst my pimples at you... |
| 20:06.06 | PoeticIntensity | hahaha!!! |
| 20:06.07 | PoeticIntensity | yes! |
| 20:06.08 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 20:06.15 | mindjuju | or the more lengthy |
| 20:06.22 | mindjuju | ~frenchassault SunSparc |
| 20:06.22 | ibot | ACTION summons the french taunter! SunSparc, I unclog my nose in your direction, sons of a window-dresser! I wave my private parts at your aunties, you heaving lot of second hand electric donkey bottom biters! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a! |
| 20:06.50 | PoeticIntensity | bingo. |
| 20:07.00 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:07.22 | mindjuju | if i remember right, i set both up on a random, i used to do it to macnewbold all the time |
| 20:07.28 | mindjuju | ~frenchassault macnewbold |
| 20:07.28 | ibot | ACTION summons the french taunter! macnewbold is an English bedwetting type! macnewbold, I burst my pimples at you... You tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a! |
| 20:07.49 | macnewbold | the french taunter is from monty python, i believe |
| 20:08.02 | macnewbold | as PoeticIntensity so nicely pointed out |
| 20:08.03 | mindjuju | yup |
| 20:08.20 | PoeticIntensity | :D |
| 20:08.21 | SunSparc | ~herlo macnewbold |
| 20:08.22 | ibot | ACTION pokes macnewbold in they eye with a sharp needle |
| 20:08.47 | SunSparc | ~mindjuju macnewbold |
| 20:08.50 | mindjuju | of course, you could use the mac flavored ibot attacks |
| 20:08.53 | mindjuju | ~macattack SunSparc |
| 20:08.54 | ibot | ACTION uses jumper cables to stun SunSparc! |
| 20:09.15 | mindjuju | since macnewbold has his masters in comp sci, his are more "science-y" |
| 20:09.26 | SunSparc | Nice |
| 20:09.38 | SunSparc | ~fernpee |
| 20:09.39 | ibot | ACTION whistles for BigDrink, the 180-lb Labrador Retriever with the 40-gallon bladder, to relieve himself on that fern over there in the corner... |
| 20:09.58 | mindjuju | ~sunsparc |
| 20:09.58 | ibot | well, sunsparc is A pandimensional being, or the internationalization specialist, or currently studying String Theory, or <3 7of9 |
| 20:10.13 | mindjuju | o.O |
| 20:10.14 | SunSparc | :) |
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| 20:10.22 | mindjuju | 7of9? |
| 20:10.37 | SunSparc | Reminds me of that hot tv show ladies. |
| 20:10.43 | mindjuju | have you ever wondered what 8of9 looks like? |
| 20:10.57 | SunSparc | heh, 8of9 is probably a guy. |
| 20:11.02 | SunSparc | ~mindjuju |
| 20:11.02 | ibot | from memory, mindjuju is sleeping with his left eye open, or insane, or a windows system administrator *GASP*, or the Prophet of Breakbeats, or sweat sexy hawtness, or a Texan, or wears his snuggie in the buff, or has a thing for hawt sitcom moms, or likes ponicals, or listens to celine dijon. DJ Nerd Magic, or can't tell toast from a pop-tart, or can beat a viper in a sedan, or a brony, or the music master |
| 20:11.52 | mindjuju | every things is right except the snuggie, i don't own one |
| 20:12.01 | josephscott | need to dial it up a notch, 11of9 |
| 20:12.21 | mindjuju | and i did watch a My Little Pony to see what all the recent fuss was about |
| 20:12.27 | mindjuju | i made it about 10 minutes |
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| 20:17.43 | thebigdog | any WP gurus that run it on small vas? |
| 20:17.46 | thebigdog | vms? |
| 20:20.23 | mindjuju | thebigdog, sup |
| 20:20.37 | mindjuju | for VP gurus you're looking for josephscott or ninnypants |
| 20:20.45 | mindjuju | oops, i meant WP |
| 20:21.07 | tierra | heh, this is like the first time I've even known anyone that has touched a VMS |
| 20:21.23 | mindjuju | oh shoot, tierra too |
| 20:21.28 | mindjuju | sorry, i need to update my brain |
| 20:21.30 | tierra | I'd be surprised if either of the two named people have ever touched VMS either |
| 20:21.57 | tierra | but all that aside, what's the question? |
| 20:22.08 | fungus | He probably meant VMs meaning virtual machines. |
| 20:23.11 | josephscott | hehe, yeah, I had servers running VMS back in the day |
| 20:23.57 | tierra | fungus: he did mention vas |
| 20:24.11 | thebigdog | that was colloquy fixing my spelling |
| 20:24.24 | josephscott | VMS was both cool and a giant pain all at the same time :-) |
| 20:24.27 | thebigdog | is there a way to track memory usage of plugins in WP |
| 20:25.03 | thebigdog | i am trying to figure out why WP is so slow |
| 20:25.17 | thebigdog | what does WP require in terms of memory to really run? |
| 20:26.13 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: seriously? wow. |
| 20:26.20 | tierra | there's plugins to monitor total memory usage at least, and you could compare with and without the plugin activated |
| 20:26.32 | tierra | not sure about per-plugin... that would be hard to track I think |
| 20:26.36 | mindjuju | TuxToaster ? |
| 20:26.47 | TuxToaster | sorry, context... the watching of My Little Pony |
| 20:26.54 | mindjuju | oh yeah |
| 20:26.58 | mindjuju | it was on netflix |
| 20:27.11 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: but I'm not the only one who comes into a convo late :P |
| 20:27.13 | mindjuju | it was something on apple juice |
| 20:27.17 | TuxToaster | heh |
| 20:30.04 | thebigdog | tierra thanks |
| 20:30.04 | josephscott | yeah, per plugin would be tricky at best, since you'd have to track filter/action code as well |
| 20:30.25 | thebigdog | what are some memory limits that you guys have used for like linode or another? |
| 20:30.54 | thebigdog | also is there a good way to track memory leaks in themes? have you even seen them in themes? |
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| 20:32.24 | mindjuju | thebigdog, i looked up something similar a little more than a year ago, one thing i found that i never tried was some people inserting memory_get_usage into the plugin |
| 20:32.31 | mindjuju | though i don't know how accurate that would be |
| 20:32.31 | tierra | latest WordPress manually bumps limits (ini_set) to 40MB if it's lower (and up to as much as 128MB in admin for stuff like XMLRPC and importing |
| 20:32.32 | josephscott | yep, themes can contain custom code, so they can do nearly anything as well |
| 20:32.48 | tierra | thebigdog: generally, I'd recommend 64MB |
| 20:33.14 | josephscott | http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/debug-bar/ can be helpful for overall info |
| 20:33.59 | josephscott | tierra: where is the other bluehost WP guy? (dang, forgot his name already) we should get him to lurk in #uphpu :-) |
| 20:34.22 | tierra | josephscott: he's in here ;) |
| 20:34.28 | tierra | er |
| 20:34.30 | tierra | MikeHansenMe: |
| 20:34.39 | josephscott | there we go :-) |
| 20:34.43 | tierra | heh, thanks tab-complete |
| 20:35.00 | thebigdog | i have apc and caching and i am getting horrible performance |
| 20:35.00 | thebigdog | i have it set to use 64m right now |
| 20:35.00 | mindjuju | thebigdog, you mentioned slow WP, are you using some kind of cache? |
| 20:35.00 | thebigdog | the owner keeps thinking it is memory leak |
| 20:35.00 | thebigdog | mindjuju: apc |
| 20:35.12 | josephscott | mindjuju: so add tierra and MikeHansenMe to your auto reply list for WP questions :-) |
| 20:35.35 | thebigdog | but i don't see memory leaked |
| 20:35.40 | thebigdog | it frees up |
| 20:35.42 | josephscott | thebigdog: so which part is slow? |
| 20:35.55 | josephscott | at a high level, what does the chrome network inspector say? |
| 20:36.02 | tierra | it'd help to track it down to certain pages |
| 20:36.04 | josephscott | is the initial page request slow? |
| 20:36.12 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 20:36.15 | thebigdog | check it out here |
| 20:36.18 | josephscott | or is it rendering bits on the page that are slow? |
| 20:36.19 | thebigdog | littlebits.cc |
| 20:36.27 | thebigdog | the entire page is slow |
| 20:36.37 | josephscott | need to narrow it down a bit, then keep narrowing down |
| 20:36.40 | DexterTheDragon | http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/debug-bar-extender/ is good for measuring runtime stuff |
| 20:36.52 | tierra | thebigdog: might also be good to look into installing one of the static page caching plugins if a majority of the traffic is public |
| 20:37.07 | tierra | something like W3 Total Cache |
| 20:37.15 | thebigdog | i have that installed |
| 20:37.24 | tierra | hmm |
| 20:37.25 | thebigdog | and configured with apc |
| 20:37.40 | thebigdog | i hit the swap too |
| 20:37.46 | thebigdog | that is where it kills me |
| 20:37.47 | josephscott | thebigdog: example URL that is slow? |
| 20:37.54 | thebigdog | littlebits.cc |
| 20:37.58 | thebigdog | hit the main page |
| 20:38.00 | josephscott | oh, well, hitting swap is going to be ugly :-) |
| 20:38.02 | tierra | well, definitely need to figure out which URLs are hitting memory limits then |
| 20:38.04 | josephscott | thebigdog: what URL? |
| 20:38.12 | tierra | also consider your Keep-Alive settings on the server |
| 20:38.18 | thebigdog | http://littlebits.cc |
| 20:38.33 | DexterTheDragon | the main page is empty |
| 20:38.40 | thebigdog | yep that is the issue |
| 20:38.55 | mindjuju | hmm this plusone.js seems to come in slow |
| 20:38.59 | thebigdog | i am seeing issues with mysql too |
| 20:39.06 | josephscott | oh, literally littlebits :-) |
| 20:39.13 | mindjuju | http://screencast.com/t/Bu5Fl4B4zuZ |
| 20:39.14 | wGEric | As I clicked around it was fast and now it is just hanging. |
| 20:39.51 | josephscott | "time curl -s -s http://littlebits.cc/ > /dev/null" |
| 20:39.57 | josephscott | hasn't come back yet :-( |
| 20:40.11 | josephscott | I think we killed it |
| 20:40.24 | thebigdog | yeah it is like we get users and it dies |
| 20:40.33 | tierra | that's a whole bunch of JS requests for a single page that should be combined and minified :( |
| 20:40.38 | thebigdog | so i am thinking we are using the resources |
| 20:40.45 | SunSparc | Maybe the site is allergic to users. |
| 20:40.58 | DexterTheDragon | I'd make sure apache or nginx is ok before php |
| 20:41.04 | thebigdog | keepalive is on |
| 20:41.09 | josephscott | how much ram on the server and what else is running on it? |
| 20:41.26 | thebigdog | time out 30 |
| 20:41.28 | thebigdog | keepalive on |
| 20:41.37 | TuxToaster | $chuck-fact |
| 20:41.37 | raifbot | Chuck Norris doesn't call the wrong number. You answer the wrong phone. |
| 20:41.38 | thebigdog | keepalivetimeout 5 |
| 20:41.44 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:41.46 | tierra | I'd bring that timeout down to like 10 seconds or maybe even 5 |
| 20:41.56 | tierra | ah, heh |
| 20:42.14 | thebigdog | josephscott: mysql and that is about it |
| 20:42.20 | tierra | so, if it was 5 already, it's probably nothing related to keep-alive |
| 20:42.41 | thebigdog | i can drop the timeout to 10 |
| 20:42.44 | tierra | I guess you've probably already tried de-activating plugins |
| 20:42.46 | thebigdog | there was not much there |
| 20:42.51 | thebigdog | i did all the ones |
| 20:42.59 | josephscott | still no response from the curl request :-( |
| 20:42.59 | thebigdog | i have the security one active |
| 20:43.28 | tierra | did they just get hit with reddit or something? |
| 20:43.34 | thebigdog | not sure |
| 20:43.39 | thebigdog | there are not many connections |
| 20:43.52 | wGEric | did you already say how much ram you have? |
| 20:43.55 | DexterTheDragon | the 5 of us connecting killed it |
| 20:44.21 | TuxToaster | is it running on a 486? |
| 20:44.22 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 20:45.27 | thebigdog | i am wondering if it just needs move memory |
| 20:45.32 | thebigdog | but i would think it could handle that many |
| 20:45.50 | thebigdog | i do get a bunch of wp errors in the logs talking about dropped db connections |
| 20:45.55 | josephscott | 4 minutes later curl gave up :-( |
| 20:45.55 | thebigdog | which is really weird |
| 20:46.58 | tierra | you mentioned this is on linode right? I'd bump up resources at least temporarily to get the site responsive again, then investigate where the problem is |
| 20:47.44 | tierra | probably should also look through MySQL slow queries log |
| 20:48.02 | wGEric | thebigdog: https://github.com/rackerhacker/MySQLTuner-perl |
| 20:49.00 | thebigdog | yep used that |
| 20:49.12 | thebigdog | it wants to increase the settings big time |
| 20:49.44 | thebigdog | i told them that i want to take the mysql db off and put it on another linode |
| 20:50.06 | thebigdog | so there is active about 750m of ram |
| 20:50.20 | thebigdog | when i start it up with no apache and mysql it sits around 450 usage |
| 20:50.31 | thebigdog | now i understand linux will grab some for itself and hold it |
| 20:50.46 | thebigdog | but when i fire those 2 up then i site around 700 with out activity |
| 20:50.59 | wGEric | how much is mysql using? |
| 20:51.00 | thebigdog | get a couple people on it and it starts to swap like a mother |
| 20:51.14 | thebigdog | it sites around 200-250 |
| 20:51.20 | thebigdog | once it gets going |
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| 20:51.33 | tierra | not a big linode then I'm guessing? |
| 20:51.35 | thebigdog | tables are all optimized |
| 20:51.38 | thebigdog | 768 |
| 20:51.43 | thebigdog | i want it to be a 1024 |
| 20:51.55 | thebigdog | they keep thinking it is a memory leak |
| 20:52.01 | thebigdog | i don't see anything in the logs on it |
| 20:52.07 | thebigdog | and memory leaks keep memory |
| 20:52.14 | tierra | I've certainly pulled that off before with MySQL and Apache on the same server |
| 20:52.15 | thebigdog | i can watch memory go up and down with usage |
| 20:52.24 | tierra | used to do it with 512MB in fact |
| 20:52.32 | tierra | but that is pretty tight these days |
| 20:52.36 | wGEric | so the server is using 450 by it self, mysql uses 200-250, that leaves very little for apache |
| 20:52.44 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 20:52.47 | thebigdog | very little |
| 20:52.56 | TuxToaster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAzzbrFgcUw |
| 20:53.07 | tierra | and with that many requests for non-combined JS/CSS and images, that's definitely a big problem there |
| 20:53.29 | thebigdog | i thought w3 would do that |
| 20:53.33 | tierra | that's every single page load generating nearly 20+ requests each |
| 20:53.34 | thebigdog | does it not combine them |
| 20:53.40 | tierra | to the same server |
| 20:53.55 | tierra | na, those are static page caching |
| 20:54.16 | tierra | I actually haven't seen anything that automatically minifies and combines CSS/JS |
| 20:54.22 | mindjuju | thebigdog, if it is a mem leak, then setting the maxrequestperchild to a lower number will cause that memory leaked to be reclaimed sooner |
| 20:54.24 | tierra | you have to do that manually with your design |
| 20:54.52 | TuxToaster | you can write something that does... but it can be a pain for debugging |
| 20:55.04 | thebigdog | i might do it tonight and see |
| 20:55.15 | thebigdog | mindjuju: i have it pretty hire |
| 20:55.20 | thebigdog | i think like 3000 or so |
| 20:55.37 | TuxToaster | we have a resource manager that takes scripts from each module needed and builds a minified js response |
| 20:55.56 | josephscott | the whole server is slow though, not just WP |
| 20:56.08 | josephscott | requesting this image should be supper fast: http://littlebits.cc/wp-content/themes/littlebitstheme/images/twitter.png |
| 20:56.12 | josephscott | and not touch WP at all |
| 20:56.33 | wGEric | thebigdog: if you aren't using smtp, pop3, imap, ftp, etc on the server, make sure those aren't running so you have as much memory available to you. |
| 20:56.53 | stderr- | a lot of app servers / frameworks use some sort of asset pipeline to combine / minify / expedite asset requests |
| 20:57.01 | stderr- | particularly Rails 3 |
| 20:57.51 | thebigdog | wGEric: let me shut those down and see |
| 20:58.25 | mindjuju | so thebigdog, before reducing the maxrequestperchild to 1000, i think you need to examine why josephscott point on png, why is slow |
| 20:58.46 | mindjuju | 07[14:56] <josephscott> 02requesting this image should be supper fast: http://littlebits.cc/wp-content/themes/littlebitstheme/images/twitter.png01 |
| 20:59.10 | thebigdog | yep let me see what i have for apache config |
| 20:59.32 | josephscott | if you can't serve a very small static image in less than 2 minutes on the server, pretty much no chance of making WP fast |
| 21:00.39 | mindjuju | so off hand, i'm going to say the reason the image slow is going to be IO issue, bandwidth issue or enough workers issue |
| 21:02.07 | thebigdog | here is what i have for apache workers: <IfModule mpm_prefork_module> |
| 21:02.08 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.09 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.11 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.12 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.13 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.14 | thebigdog | </IfModule> |
| 21:02.18 | thebigdog | sorry should have pastebined that |
| 21:03.41 | tierra | he did already mention hitting swap which immediately points to i/o bound, but because Apache is currently configured to spawn more workers than the server has RAM for (based on average memory usage per worker) |
| 21:04.22 | josephscott | page came up now |
| 21:05.09 | TuxToaster | and to think I was complaining about two second load times earlier :P |
| 21:07.54 | thebigdog | i will mess around with the preform and see what i can ge |
| 21:07.56 | thebigdog | get |
| 21:07.59 | mindjuju | so thebigdog, one thing that helps me a ton is to get more details about what exactly apache is doing |
| 21:08.04 | mindjuju | i do this via server-status |
| 21:08.45 | mindjuju | thebigdog - this is what it provides you - http://apache.org/server-status |
| 21:08.54 | mindjuju | (thx to PI for finding this URL) |
| 21:10.21 | tierra | thebigdog: note that if you can calculate the average memory per request used, you can take that number * MaxSpareServers * MaxClients, and you should have something below the amount of RAM available to Apache (after all other server resources are counted) before it jumps into swap |
| 21:10.39 | tierra | if you want to force it to never jump into swap |
| 21:10.48 | tierra | though you may still end up with connection timeouts |
| 21:11.28 | tierra | average memory per request is tough to calculate though, it changes wildly |
| 21:13.15 | thebigdog | ok |
| 21:13.22 | tierra | same time though, you know you're over already, so bumping down MaxClients would be a good idea right now until it dips out of swap |
| 21:14.09 | tierra | that doesn't fix the problem, but it'll help ease the pain in the mean time |
| 21:15.11 | mindjuju | tierra, do you think dropping the keepalive to 3 or 2 seconds would benefit as it would free up connections? |
| 21:15.25 | mindjuju | i think he said it was at 10 or something |
| 21:15.46 | tierra | na, that could bump memory usage a bit actually |
| 21:15.53 | mindjuju | oh its 5 |
| 21:16.16 | tierra | more ram being shuffled around |
| 21:16.34 | tierra | making it even less predictable |
| 21:16.47 | tierra | but the same requests still need to be processed either way |
| 21:49.01 | SunSparc | Anyone here ever heard of it? |
| 21:55.27 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc_ (~jonathan@75-169-8-110.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:57.02 | SunSparc_ | ~lart SunSparc_ |
| 21:57.02 | ibot | slaps SunSparc_ around with a large trout |
| 21:58.09 | SunSparc | Hate it when I get disconned. |
| 21:58.30 | SunSparc | ~uptime |
| 22:03.09 | SunSparc | passwd |
| 22:03.10 | SunSparc | ?p?0?ss@d??z@?n?u1??n |
| 22:14.38 | mindjuju | i hope that wasn't your password SunSparc |
| 22:16.05 | SunSparc | What?! You saw that? |
| 22:16.13 | SunSparc | ;) |
| 22:16.43 | SunSparc | mindjuju: I finally got over to see your estate. Pretty cool. |
| 22:27.08 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: http://cl.ly/image/3u3t2j3C3P3B |
| 22:27.20 | TuxToaster | self-inflicting pain is generally considered to be unhealthy |
| 22:27.58 | SunSparc | lol |
| 22:28.04 | SunSparc | Good point. |
| 22:28.18 | SunSparc | ~lart TuxToaster |
| 22:28.19 | ibot | whips out a shotgun, trudges over to TuxToaster, and goes postal |
| 22:28.27 | TuxToaster | *gasp* |
| 22:28.30 | TuxToaster | $lart SunSparc |
| 22:28.31 | raifbot | takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays SunSparc in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed. |
| 22:28.55 | TuxToaster | ~butter SunSparc |
| 22:28.55 | ibot | ACTION straps SunSparc to a giant slice of butter then tosses SunSparc in a pan and practices sauteing |
| 22:29.19 | SunSparc | Just need some garlic now. |
| 22:29.21 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:29.24 | TuxToaster | ~garlic SunSparc |
| 22:29.32 | SunSparc | lol |
| 22:29.44 | TuxToaster | ibot: you need to go to culinary school |
| 22:30.02 | SunSparc | ibot: go to culinary school |
| 22:30.08 | SunSparc | Now |
| 22:30.17 | SunSparc | So you can learn how to saute humans. |
| 22:30.42 | SunSparc | ~chucknorris ibot |
| 22:30.42 | ibot | ACTION wheel kicks ibot |
| 22:30.57 | SunSparc | ibot: I do not think that is possible. |
| 22:30.57 | ibot | You do not think that is possible.? |
| 22:31.03 | SunSparc | Correct. |
| 22:31.20 | TuxToaster | ibot, garlic $1 is stuffs $1 into a giant garlic press, then transfers the minced $1 into a frying pan |
| 22:31.20 | ibot | TuxToaster: okay |
| 22:31.24 | TuxToaster | ~garlic SunSparc |
| 22:31.25 | ibot | stuffs SunSparc into a giant garlic press, then transfers the minced SunSparc into a frying pan |
| 22:31.55 | SunSparc | I should be pretty lean. |
| 22:32.15 | SunSparc | better add some more butter |
| 22:32.33 | TuxToaster | if only we could get a chain of these things |
| 22:32.43 | TuxToaster | butter, garlic, then "ibot eats SunSparc and falls over dead." |
| 22:32.55 | SunSparc | Heh |
| 22:32.59 | SunSparc | Yeah, that would be fun. |
| 22:35.02 | TuxToaster | ~slice raifbot |
| 22:35.02 | ibot | ACTION grabs raifbot, duct-tapes raifbot to the cutting board, and whips out the good ol' X-Acto |
| 22:35.37 | TuxToaster | I'm not sure I want to know where some of these came from. |
| 22:44.54 | josephscott | $lart ibot |
| 22:44.55 | raifbot | wielding the mighty hammer of Thor, Mjölnir, I summon lighting to destroy ibot. |
| 22:45.25 | Heartsbane | $lart urmom |
| 22:45.26 | raifbot | takes urmom to the vet for a "special" visit. |
| 22:46.31 | Skinner | Awww....someones getting a sucker.... |
| 22:49.54 | SunSparc | ~sucker Skinner |
| 22:55.08 | TuxToaster | $lart josephscott |
| 22:55.09 | raifbot | chops josephscott in half with a free Solaris 7 CD. |
| 22:55.45 | TuxToaster | </sound of a table saw> |
| 22:57.22 | *** part/#uphpu clondon (~Adium@69.169.182.227.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 23:00.31 | josephscott | $lart TuxToaster |
| 23:00.32 | raifbot | turns TuxToaster into a lifesized tux doll. |
| 23:00.42 | josephscott | apropos right :-) |
| 23:00.44 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 23:00.49 | josephscott | ~lolstats |
| 23:00.49 | ibot | total count of lol on #uphpu: 5035. Top 3: TuxToaster -- 926 (18.4%), carmony -- 552 (11.0%), herlo -- 549 (10.9%) |
| 23:00.55 | TuxToaster | doh |
| 23:03.05 | fridgesm | I need to laugh more, I hear it's healthy |
| 23:04.32 | josephscott | today is a good day to laugh |
| 23:04.39 | josephscott | ~lolstats josephscott |
| 23:04.40 | ibot | josephscott has said lol 12 times (0.2 %), ranked 22/115 (percentile: 19.1 %) |
| 23:04.47 | herlo | w00t! |
| 23:06.37 | SunSparc | ~laugh fridgesm |
| 23:06.38 | ibot | ACTION laughs hysterically at fridgesm...ow! laughing so hard, it can't breathe... gasp...gasp...gasp.... ..... ... |
| 23:07.13 | SunSparc | ~lolstats fridgesm |
| 23:07.35 | SunSparc | Guess he is not even on the list. |
| 23:08.31 | fridgesm | lol |
| 23:08.43 | fridgesm | ~lolstats fridgesm |
| 23:08.43 | ibot | fridgesm has said lol 1 times (0.0 %), ranked 69/116 (percentile: 59.5 %) |
| 23:08.48 | fridgesm | ouch |
| 23:08.55 | fridgesm | I really need to laugh more |
| 23:09.15 | SunSparc | Well, at least you are not 116/116 on the list. :) |
| 23:21.55 | SunSparc | rsync question: Is there a way to do incremental backups with rsync to s3? |
| 23:22.31 | herlo | um... |
| 23:22.39 | SunSparc | I have found some third party utilities. |
| 23:22.52 | herlo | so, I don't know how s3 works per se, but isn't that how rsync works? |
| 23:22.59 | herlo | oh, backups |
| 23:23.04 | SunSparc | Yeah, backups. |
| 23:23.04 | herlo | rdiff-backup ftw! |
| 23:23.17 | SunSparc | Hmmm... rdiff |
| 23:23.44 | herlo | it uses rsync |
| 23:25.20 | herlo | rdiff-backup does incrementals on your schedule and you can pull them from any source. |
| 23:27.08 | SunSparc | Does rdiff need to read from the remote system to know which files have changes? Or does it keep that info locally. |
| 23:27.26 | SunSparc | I am trying to avoid 2-way communication with S3. |
| 23:27.31 | SunSparc | PUT only |
| 23:27.37 | herlo | so I guess I misunderstand |
| 23:27.49 | herlo | I thought you wanted to do incrementals |
| 23:28.01 | herlo | how would you know what the diffs are without having them? |
| 23:28.11 | herlo | I mean you could do rdiff-backup locally and then just rsync the diffs |
| 23:28.12 | SunSparc | yes, exactly |
| 23:28.13 | SunSparc | :) |
| 23:28.25 | herlo | don't see why that wouldn't work |
| 23:28.26 | SunSparc | Well, yeah, that is an option. |
| 23:28.40 | herlo | and it's going to be as lightweight as it gets from a bandwidth pov |
| 23:28.47 | SunSparc | But then I would need double the space. |
| 23:29.29 | SunSparc | I guess S3 would end up being a tertiary backup. |
| 23:35.10 | *** join/#uphpu clondon (~Adium@69.169.165.119.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 23:35.59 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.53.57.58) |
| 23:35.59 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 23:49.41 | *** join/#uphpu ShunkyDave (~ShunkyDav@unaffiliated/shunkydave) |
| 23:51.42 | herlo | well, I would suggest that they could be wiped after they were synced save maybe the last 3 incrementals and the original backup |
| 23:52.09 | herlo | just depends on what you want to do. I think that's a problem that really isn't solvable without either lots of bandwidth or storage. |
| 23:52.24 | SunSparc | Yep |
| 23:52.45 | SunSparc | Guess we just need to decide how we want to do it. |
| 23:52.53 | herlo | gl :) |
| 23:52.59 | SunSparc | Thanks for the help herlo. |
| 23:53.02 | SunSparc | ~herlo++ |
| 23:58.15 | herlo | SunSparc: glad I could help :) |
