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| 15:20.55 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org | Meeting Tonight! Carmony on Refactoring, 7pm @ C7 Bluffdale | Wordcamp this Saturday @ UofU |
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| 15:40.09 | ninnypants | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqDrnR2bWk4 the truck driver has luck on his side for sure |
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| 17:06.21 | PoeticIntensity | anyone have any good info on apache benchmarks? |
| 17:08.48 | PoeticIntensity | when we put out a marketing campaign, our server gets sluggish, and I've gotta figure out why... |
| 17:09.21 | DexterTheDragon | probably cause a lot of people visit |
| 17:10.36 | SunSparc | lol ^ |
| 17:10.52 | SunSparc | I would bank on that. |
| 17:10.54 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:11.01 | PoeticIntensity | hehe.... |
| 17:11.05 | PoeticIntensity | tis true... |
| 17:11.15 | PoeticIntensity | I thought one xeon quad-core with 8gigs of ram would be enough... |
| 17:11.23 | PoeticIntensity | (plugged into the backbone at fibernet) |
| 17:11.51 | PoeticIntensity | we're getting pounded right now, and there's a 5-10 second load time on the site.... |
| 17:12.07 | PoeticIntensity | 3.5G of the 8G of memory is being used by apache.... |
| 17:12.17 | PoeticIntensity | cores are fine.... |
| 17:12.27 | PoeticIntensity | yet, the load time is still unacceptable... |
| 17:15.31 | PoeticIntensity | when we're idling, we get between 250,000 and 400,000 hits per day. |
| 17:15.54 | PoeticIntensity | wait... 250k - 350k per day... |
| 17:16.46 | PoeticIntensity | when we get the point where it's slow, we've gotten just below 500,000. |
| 17:19.17 | macnewbold | PoeticIntensity: check to see if anything is swapping, and maybe check iostats |
| 17:19.21 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: That initial free flight of Enterprise was pretty exciting. |
| 17:19.43 | PoeticIntensity | there is no swap. |
| 17:19.54 | macnewbold | you might want to configure max clients or something in apache, so that it stops making new children when it gets too busy |
| 17:20.18 | PoeticIntensity | hmm.... |
| 17:20.25 | PoeticIntensity | so it stops? or starts? |
| 17:20.57 | PoeticIntensity | right now, I've got max clients set to the max without making other changes in apache... |
| 17:20.57 | macnewbold | no, you want a limit on it - normally it can make a whole lotta children, so many that it slows things down |
| 17:20.57 | PoeticIntensity | huh.... |
| 17:20.58 | macnewbold | if you cap it, then it has fewer processes that can each serve faster |
| 17:20.59 | PoeticIntensity | that's interesting... |
| 17:21.21 | PoeticIntensity | so.... you're saying that maxing it out might be the problem... |
| 17:21.32 | macnewbold | fungus might be the best guy to ask, but he appears to be missing right now |
| 17:22.28 | PoeticIntensity | definitely food for thought, though, macnewbold... Thanks for the response! |
| 17:23.44 | Bikerdan | PoeticIntensity: I'm assuming this is a PHP site? |
| 17:24.19 | PoeticIntensity | yup... cakephp |
| 17:24.34 | Bikerdan | Does it have any sort of PHP accelerator enabled? |
| 17:25.20 | PoeticIntensity | So.... |
| 17:25.24 | PoeticIntensity | I'm not sure... |
| 17:25.45 | PoeticIntensity | But my logic says that the server itself is just fine, because the cores are at like 8-10% average... |
| 17:25.47 | PoeticIntensity | not working too hard. |
| 17:25.58 | Bikerdan | Does it have a mysql backend? |
| 17:26.00 | PoeticIntensity | memory is at 4gigs (now) and we have 8, so... we're good there. |
| 17:26.12 | Bikerdan | How are query times looking? |
| 17:26.20 | PoeticIntensity | it has a pgsql backend, on a different server... and the pgsql server is using a whopping 318 megs of memory right now. |
| 17:26.31 | PoeticIntensity | it hardly moves... |
| 17:26.40 | PoeticIntensity | cores on that one are barely at 1%. |
| 17:26.43 | PoeticIntensity | So.... |
| 17:26.48 | PoeticIntensity | I'm thinking that apache is getting maxed out. |
| 17:26.57 | PoeticIntensity | because the server itself is super responsive still. |
| 17:27.15 | PoeticIntensity | I can ssh in, and get *right* in... I can still run scripts that peg the server, and it seems just fine... |
| 17:27.26 | Bikerdan | hmmmm |
| 17:27.38 | PoeticIntensity | but apache, it seems, is struggling because it seems to be hitting an perceived ceiling. |
| 17:28.03 | Bikerdan | Maybe look into the PHP accelerator thing. |
| 17:28.06 | PoeticIntensity | I've gotta tell apache "yo, we're okay down here! Beef yourself up!" |
| 17:28.47 | Bikerdan | I would think that would be maxing out processor though. |
| 17:29.58 | PoeticIntensity | exactly... |
| 17:29.59 | Bikerdan | See anything in the apache error_log? |
| 17:30.00 | PoeticIntensity | the procs are fine. |
| 17:30.08 | PoeticIntensity | sadly, no... |
| 17:30.09 | Bikerdan | Like hitting maxclients |
| 17:30.16 | mindjuju | what are MaxClients and MaxRequestsPerChild at? |
| 17:30.20 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 17:30.59 | PoeticIntensity | one sec. |
| 17:32.01 | macnewbold | PoeticIntensity: something like APC might be super helpful, as Bikerdan suggests |
| 17:32.41 | mindjuju | I can't remember where I read this, i think apache docs, but when setting your server seetings, MaxClients, MaxRequestsPerChild, you really need to know how much memory your site requires for normal operation so that you can performance tweak |
| 17:32.47 | PoeticIntensity | We're using prefork, and the maxclients are set at 256. (default is 150). MaxRequestsPerChild is at 10000 |
| 17:33.55 | ninnypants | turns out this is a really nice font for reading code http://boingboing.net/2012/09/24/adobe-releases-open-source-cod.html |
| 17:34.10 | Bikerdan | Do you have any allow or deny directives that use a domain name? |
| 17:34.12 | mindjuju | PoeticIntensity here is a formula to consider |
| 17:34.13 | mindjuju | MaxClients ≈ (RAM - size_all_other_processes)/(size_apache_process) |
| 17:34.20 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... I read that, but everything I've read (and am reading) tell me that the MaxClients setting is telling the server how many concurrent connections the server can handle. |
| 17:34.36 | Bikerdan | Could be doing a double reverse DNS lookup... |
| 17:35.03 | PoeticIntensity | I believe it's set to Allow from All |
| 17:35.11 | PoeticIntensity | (Bikerdan) |
| 17:35.21 | Bikerdan | Sould be fine then |
| 17:35.22 | Bikerdan | should |
| 17:35.24 | PoeticIntensity | yeah. |
| 17:35.33 | PoeticIntensity | I'd see logs flying somewhere if that were set.... |
| 17:35.44 | PoeticIntensity | interesting equation, mindjuju .... |
| 17:36.23 | mindjuju | personally PI, i think it is in the Apache settings |
| 17:36.34 | mindjuju | you've got resources to spare, apache is just not using them |
| 17:38.28 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, agreed. My logic comes to the same conclusion.. |
| 17:38.44 | PoeticIntensity | apache seems to be hitting a self-imposed ceiling. |
| 17:38.45 | mindjuju | during the halloween season, we were up at 120 requests / second with spikes to 140, those are the numbers i had to work with to get it to max |
| 17:39.19 | PoeticIntensity | how do you tell requests per second? |
| 17:39.26 | PoeticIntensity | (sorry for my n00bishness) |
| 17:39.44 | mindjuju | so apache has something called server status |
| 17:40.17 | mindjuju | actually i think you can see server status from command line too, but in httpd.conf you can set server-status and it will tell you TONS of information |
| 17:40.40 | PoeticIntensity | thank you! |
| 17:40.40 | mindjuju | i think if you say (assuming this is linux) service httpd status, it gives you the same info |
| 17:40.44 | mindjuju | i'll check real quick |
| 17:40.46 | PoeticIntensity | it's linkux |
| 17:40.48 | PoeticIntensity | linux |
| 17:41.41 | mindjuju | hmm, i could have sworn there was a flag for the command line to see the server status, any way, i have mine enabled so i can check the server status, but i have it hidden away, locked down by IP and a few other things |
| 17:42.23 | Bikerdan | apache2ctl status? |
| 17:43.28 | PoeticIntensity | looks like there's a mod_status module... |
| 17:43.44 | mindjuju | yup, must be enabled |
| 17:44.05 | mindjuju | if you say service httpd restart, it will gracefully and quickly reload updated httpd.conf changes |
| 17:44.25 | PoeticIntensity | reload, not restart.... |
| 17:44.30 | PoeticIntensity | reload = graceful |
| 17:44.40 | PoeticIntensity | (at least in gentoo) |
| 17:44.41 | mindjuju | oops, yup |
| 17:44.42 | mindjuju | ;) |
| 17:46.03 | Bikerdan | PoeticIntensity: What is the server load? |
| 17:47.00 | PoeticIntensity | Load average: 0.26 0.27 0.31 |
| 17:48.00 | Bikerdan | So I agree with you guys... It's either an apache config issue, OR it's a remote dependancy issue. |
| 17:48.01 | PoeticIntensity | thanks for your help, guys.... |
| 17:49.21 | PoeticIntensity | (continued help....) |
| 17:49.55 | Bikerdan | Are certain requests slower than others? Are there particular PHP files that are involved? |
| 17:50.56 | Bikerdan | Maybe there is a config option in Cake that is causing issues... |
| 17:52.08 | PoeticIntensity | Once the request is put through apache, the actual processing is lightning fast... |
| 17:52.17 | PoeticIntensity | I'm almost 100% sure this is an apache issue. |
| 17:52.44 | PoeticIntensity | it's like..... "wait.......wait.......wait......(apache processes request)....BOOM site is done" |
| 17:53.40 | Bikerdan | Check out the answer on this page... http://serverfault.com/questions/322671/long-waiting-times-before-apache-2-2-server-response-gentoo-lamp |
| 17:53.44 | Bikerdan | Might be useful |
| 17:54.10 | Bikerdan | They seem to have the same issue... When they got APC enabled, it started working fine.... |
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| 17:56.28 | PoeticIntensity | thanks Bikerdan! |
| 17:56.35 | Bikerdan | No problem |
| 17:58.09 | mindjuju | hmm, woman orders dishwasher and gets a free snake - http://www.dishwashersinfo.com/Features/Woman-Orders-a-Dishwasher-Gets-a-Complimentary-Snake.htm?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=cpc |
| 17:58.19 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, so... the mod_status - you look at the stats by going to a web page (virtualhost)..? |
| 17:58.38 | mindjuju | the worst part, they took the dishwasher back out,b ecause of snake |
| 17:58.42 | mindjuju | PoeticIntensity, yup |
| 17:58.55 | mindjuju | the one i sent you in PM is extended stats |
| 17:59.05 | mindjuju | it'll show you free workers, etc |
| 17:59.12 | PoeticIntensity | thank you! |
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| 18:02.07 | Bikerdan | PoeticIntensity: What's you're Min and MaxSpareServers set to? |
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| 18:11.26 | PoeticIntensity | what?? I'm only at 41 requests / second... |
| 18:11.40 | PoeticIntensity | with 0 idle workers.... |
| 18:12.38 | PoeticIntensity | I might be completely off, but I thought it'd be much higher than that. |
| 18:12.48 | PoeticIntensity | (the 0 workers is expected...) |
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| 18:13.12 | Bikerdan | PoeticIntensity: What's your Min and MaxSpareServers set to? |
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| 18:14.20 | PoeticIntensity | Bikerdan, 5 and 10 |
| 18:14.35 | PoeticIntensity | I need to be able to handle more clients.... I think I'm gonna up the MaxClients. |
| 18:18.05 | mindjuju | up the clients CAREFULLY PoeticIntensity |
| 18:18.28 | mindjuju | if you put some crazy number there and your website is a memory hog, your ability to ssh into the server when it spikes will be gone |
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| 18:23.05 | Bikerdan | Your MaxSpareServers might be a little low also... http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/prefork.html |
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| 18:31.47 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, very sage advice.... :) |
| 18:31.55 | PoeticIntensity | Bikerdan, I'll take a look at that one, too... thank you! |
| 18:32.21 | Bikerdan | Hope it helps. |
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| 18:39.01 | TuxToaster | $chuck-fact |
| 18:39.01 | raifbot | Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door. |
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| 18:39.48 | TuxToaster | does destroying it count as slamming? I don't think there'd be much of a door left. |
| 18:50.45 | PoeticIntensity | so, mindjuju, if the MaxServers are set now at 256, do you think going up to 400 would be conservative, or too much to begin with? |
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| 19:05.51 | macnewbold | PoeticIntensity: given the amount of ram you have free, i bet you'd be okay with 300-400 |
| 19:06.24 | macnewbold | maxclients is the number of concurrent requests - generally i've seen the most success when it's the same or a little less than max servers |
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| 19:06.39 | macnewbold | i.e you don't want more than one client per worker, or you'll be having them wait |
| 19:12.35 | PoeticIntensity | gotcha... |
| 19:12.45 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... I just upped it, and am seeing drastic improvements in load tiems. |
| 19:12.46 | PoeticIntensity | times. |
| 19:12.55 | PoeticIntensity | (I jumped in and went to 400) |
| 19:13.00 | PoeticIntensity | memory is still looking great. |
| 19:13.07 | PoeticIntensity | procs are still hardly working. |
| 19:16.38 | macnewbold | that's good news |
| 19:16.44 | macnewbold | ram will probably be your constraining factor |
| 19:22.58 | PoeticIntensity | I think so, but not for long... *evil grin*... |
| 19:23.04 | PoeticIntensity | we just ordered 24 more gigs of ram. |
| 19:23.15 | PoeticIntensity | we'll see what these processors can do... *wrings hands menacingly* |
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| 19:50.59 | PoeticIntensity | well.... from my perspective, today I was helped largely by you guys and google.. and google told me pretty much what needed to be done, after verifying what the problem probably was by you guys. |
| 19:52.05 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: that reference source is called fungus |
| 19:52.13 | PoeticIntensity | the problem is - there are so many different types of hardware, servers, website types, and bandwidth needs that there doesn't seem to be a "this will fix your problem" solution. |
| 19:52.27 | PoeticIntensity | There are too many {if / else} junctions for it to be reasonable. |
| 19:52.37 | PoeticIntensity | hehe... agreed, DexterTheDragon |
| 19:52.39 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: So true. |
| 19:53.11 | SunSparc | PoeticIntensity: Good point. |
| 19:53.31 | PoeticIntensity | The answer to my problem very easily could have been the need to optimize PHP, if the symptoms pointed me there... |
| 19:53.58 | PoeticIntensity | Probably not a bad idea to write down the symptoms, and then provide their possibly solutions, though. |
| 19:54.08 | PoeticIntensity | possibly = possile. |
| 19:54.12 | PoeticIntensity | bah... |
| 19:54.15 | PoeticIntensity | possible. |
| 19:54.18 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:54.22 | PoeticIntensity | \o/ |
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| 20:02.22 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 20:02.22 | raifbot | teaches john_anderson the basics, including how to RTM. |
| 20:08.19 | PoeticIntensity | ~lart TuxToaster |
| 20:08.19 | ibot | nukes TuxToaster with a single large nuke |
| 20:08.27 | PoeticIntensity | hmmm... only a single? :) |
| 20:12.39 | mindjuju | srry PI, i was in meet about purchasing |
| 20:12.42 | Bikerdan | PoeticIntensity: I would definitely check to see if you have any sort of PHP cache running. They make a huge difference too. |
| 20:13.11 | mindjuju | cache is goot idea |
| 20:13.17 | PoeticIntensity | oh, yes. Cake has a pretty efficient cache... |
| 20:13.28 | PoeticIntensity | That's why our pgsql server is barely doing anything. |
| 20:13.51 | Bikerdan | is it the same type of cache as APC or xcache? |
| 20:13.52 | mindjuju | any my only recommendation is that you weigh how much RAM your site is taking, relative to the total amount of RAM spare and set your max appropriately |
| 20:13.55 | Bikerdan | I think those are different. |
| 20:14.02 | macnewbold | we've seen APC give 50% performance increase right out of the box |
| 20:14.13 | mindjuju | apc comes in a box? |
| 20:14.14 | Bikerdan | They're not database caches. |
| 20:14.22 | PoeticIntensity | I'll definitely need to give APC a look... |
| 20:14.26 | macnewbold | php opcode cache |
| 20:14.30 | Bikerdan | right |
| 20:14.31 | PoeticIntensity | ah... |
| 20:14.34 | macnewbold | it means apache compiles the php once |
| 20:14.39 | macnewbold | then uses that compiled code until the file changes |
| 20:14.47 | Bikerdan | Much faster |
| 20:14.49 | macnewbold | so instead of compile-run on every php file it just does run |
| 20:15.06 | PoeticIntensity | yeah, I can see how that would increase performance significantly. |
| 20:15.15 | josephscott | please tell me this is a joke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlsahuZ_4oM&feature=youtu.be |
| 20:16.50 | mindjuju | warning on josephscott, that vid has more corn than candy corn |
| 20:17.01 | TuxToaster | $lart PoeticIntensity |
| 20:17.02 | raifbot | gives PoeticIntensity a good seeing to. |
| 20:17.04 | josephscott | lots of cheese :-) |
| 20:17.25 | mindjuju | this just keep getting worse |
| 20:17.31 | mindjuju | i'm going to FB it |
| 20:18.16 | Bikerdan | Don't do it mindjuju. |
| 20:18.32 | Bikerdan | That's like saying, "I feel sick", and then coughing in everyones face.... |
| 20:18.42 | Bikerdan | Spreading disease. |
| 20:19.27 | mindjuju | posted |
| 20:19.31 | Bikerdan | DOH! |
| 20:19.38 | mindjuju | got to share the disease |
| 20:19.53 | macnewbold | http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ |
| 20:20.13 | Bikerdan | macnewbold: awesome |
| 20:20.22 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 20:20.40 | PoeticIntensity | ya know... Being a spoof, the song / lyrics / performance are actually done quite well. |
| 20:20.40 | macnewbold | i almost just said nooooooooooo |
| 20:20.44 | macnewbold | but figured the link added sound |
| 20:21.01 | macnewbold | true, shows where they are spending their time/money now... |
| 20:21.23 | mindjuju | wow, that's sung by actual employees |
| 20:21.52 | PoeticIntensity | Production is impressive, too, considering its intent. |
| 20:22.14 | PoeticIntensity | Rockin' the Les Paul for the guitar solo, too... |
| 20:22.58 | josephscott | anyone believe RIM is likely to make a come back? |
| 20:24.49 | PoeticIntensity | pretty tough time for anyone to consider serious competition in that area now... |
| 20:25.01 | PoeticIntensity | it'd have to be revolutionary, IMO. |
| 20:29.28 | mindjuju | i think they should punt and adopt android OS (steve forbes's idea) |
| 20:29.46 | mindjuju | they've got the hardware, just need to prove relavency |
| 20:31.23 | josephscott | perhaps they should buy palm ;-) |
| 20:31.55 | mindjuju | poor HP |
| 20:32.16 | mindjuju | that's like the guy who bought MySpace |
| 20:32.31 | mindjuju | for some reason i want to say it was ole Rupert, wasn't it? |
| 20:32.41 | mindjuju | for like crazy billion dollars |
| 20:33.29 | mindjuju | oh here it is, bought by News Corp for $580mil |
| 20:33.55 | josephscott | I could totally be a CEO |
| 20:34.17 | josephscott | how hard could it be to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and have nothing to show for it? |
| 20:34.30 | macnewbold | the hard part is getting the hundreds of millions to spend... |
| 20:35.09 | josephscott | easy, just have HP hire me, they have the money to flush apparently :-) |
| 20:38.06 | mindjuju | that's quite the commode that can flush 580mil |
| 20:38.24 | mindjuju | most would get stuck with just a handful of tp |
| 21:19.59 | josephscott | if you are running phpmyadmin make sure it is either set for restricted access or confirm that it doesn't have the backdoor code that was found |
| 21:20.09 | ninnypants | mindjuju: they don't use the low flow they use 1gpf ;) |
| 21:21.43 | TuxToaster | PMA == PITA. |
| 21:22.28 | Bikerdan | agreed |
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| 22:12.48 | ninnypants | interesting concept for finding missing children |
| 22:14.18 | macnewbold | ninnypants: oh? |
| 22:14.24 | ninnypants | http://notfound.org/ |
| 22:14.53 | ninnypants | forgot the link while I was trying to find an example of one of the pages |
| 22:15.23 | ninnypants | http://samnabi.com/x |
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| 22:25.29 | tierra | that system should really be internationalized, so it can dynamically focus on missing children last reported in the visitor's area based on geo-location |
| 22:25.50 | tierra | pretty cool idea, but sort of poor execution if you ask me |
| 22:26.21 | ninnypants | tierra: agreed |
| 22:26.25 | tierra | most sites have a pretty global audience |
| 22:26.46 | ninnypants | I think the hard part would be getting all the data together |
| 22:27.01 | tierra | yeah, I figured that's likely why it isn't |
| 22:27.52 | ninnypants | something like an api would be nice as well |
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| 22:29.37 | macnewbold | yeah, truly. the fact that it is eu only right now is the biggest showstopper in the USA imo |
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| 22:38.12 | ninnypants | yeah and compiling all that data would probably require scraping a bunch of pages like this http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/UTAHmissingpersons.html |
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