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| 14:45.06 | mahelious | happy 9/11 everybody |
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| 14:50.26 | jsmith | mahelious: What's so happy about it? |
| 14:51.06 | jsmith | "Yay, eleven years without a large-scale foreign terrorist attack"?s |
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| 14:52.39 | mahelious | i dunno. everybodys talking about it on the radio. after 10 years i figure its not worth the nostalgia unless i get the day off |
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| 14:53.12 | mahelious | course im a commie or something since i was overseas when it happened. |
| 14:54.30 | Bikerdan | Not worth the nostalgia? |
| 14:54.38 | josePHPagoda | the frustrating thing to me is the negative economic impact it has had on us. Not the attack itself, but our leadership's idiocy in response to it. |
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| 14:58.46 | Bikerdan | josePHPagoda: Just curious, what would you say the appropriate response would have been? |
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| 15:01.47 | josePHPagoda | terrorism, by definition, is designed to instill fear. Unfortunately, the tactics used in response were designed to propogate fear. |
| 15:02.14 | josePHPagoda | as a result, we've not caused ourselves to do more damage than the terrorists could have ever dreamed about. |
| 15:03.53 | Bikerdan | josePHPagoda: So what could we have done better? |
| 15:03.59 | mahelious | Bruce Schneier has noted, on numerous occasions, that the numerous implementations of ineffective "security theatre" has made us more vulnerable now than before. |
| 15:04.34 | josePHPagoda | mahelious has one thing listed |
| 15:05.44 | josePHPagoda | another thing that would have been far better (but would have been political suicide) would be to mourn the loss of those that suffered due to it and move on. |
| 15:05.49 | Bikerdan | mahelious: could you please explain what he's trying to say? What does he mean by "ineffective security theatre"? |
| 15:05.50 | mahelious | it would have actually been cheaper to put an armed US Marshal on every single flight, international AND domestic, than what we've spent on electronic strip searches |
| 15:06.35 | mindjuju | mahelious, yeah, but that wouldn't have put $$$ into the GE coffers, and that's what their lobbyist get paid for |
| 15:06.42 | mindjuju | </xfiles> |
| 15:07.02 | josePHPagoda | right now Bikerdan, the security theater has opened up some tremendous security issues |
| 15:07.26 | josePHPagoda | for example, if some terrorist wanted to go and kill abunch of people, they wouldn't even try to pass through security, they'd just get into the middle of the security line. |
| 15:07.52 | josePHPagoda | lots of crowded people, enclosed area |
| 15:08.00 | josePHPagoda | all sorts of security idiocy taking place |
| 15:08.44 | josePHPagoda | honestly, I feel less safe as airports now because of that, additionally, it costs us more, delays travel, and stresses us out. |
| 15:09.50 | knicholes | Does anyone know of any active hackerspaces locally in Utah county? |
| 15:10.41 | mahelious | and while the TSA loves to crow about how there hasnt been a domestic incident since 9/11, they've never acknowledged having prevented any attacks. |
| 15:10.54 | mahelious | the whole thing is a billion dollar can of tiger spray |
| 15:11.40 | josePHPagoda | mahelious: there have been domestic incidents since 9/11, it's just that the TSA had nothing to do with preventing them. |
| 15:15.33 | mahelious | no one was taking their shoes off until we had a "shoe bomber", your water bottle was allowed until someone put a bomb in a shampoo bottle, and we didn't get the full body scanners until someones underwear literally started smoking. |
| 15:15.56 | mahelious | for an agency whose goal is prevention, they have shown an amazing preference for hindsight |
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| 15:21.57 | ninnypants | http://rockstardevjobs.biz/ |
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| 15:27.59 | Bikerdan | mahelious: What do you think would happen if the TSA started doing body scans and making people take clothes off without some real purpose other than "Someone might have explosive underwear"? |
| 15:28.41 | mahelious | thats not a real purpose, and youre experiencing the hypothetical. |
| 15:28.56 | Bikerdan | ? |
| 15:29.06 | mahelious | people submit to authority. one or two outliers make a fuss, and the rest go along |
| 15:29.17 | Bikerdan | I agree. |
| 15:29.31 | Bikerdan | I'm just talking about your comment of the TSA being reactive vs proactive. |
| 15:29.39 | Bikerdan | What could they do better to be more proactive? |
| 15:30.35 | mahelious | predictive forecasting and analysis aside, theres only three things that should happen |
| 15:31.14 | mahelious | 1) add a private lavatory to every cockpit, and make the cockpit door virtually impenetrable |
| 15:31.25 | mahelious | 2) put an armed legal office on every flight |
| 15:31.53 | mahelious | 3) inspect all checked baggage for bombs, drugs, etc just like we did before 9/11 |
| 15:32.02 | mahelious | s/office/officer |
| 15:32.11 | Bikerdan | So we need not inspect carry-on baggage for bombs? |
| 15:33.08 | Bikerdan | And I would argue that two officers would be better than one. One at the front and one at the rear. |
| 15:33.16 | Bikerdan | One officer is too easily overcome. |
| 15:33.48 | Bikerdan | Especially if we don't check carry-ons for handguns. |
| 15:34.16 | fungus | Bikerdan, pre 9/11 security scanning would catch those easily |
| 15:34.32 | mahelious | as i recall, handguns were contraband as carry-ons before 9/11 |
| 15:34.56 | Bikerdan | So the three things you're listing are on top of everything that was happening before 9/11 |
| 15:34.58 | mahelious | and basic security scanning for carry-ons is fine by me. just dont make me take my shoes off |
| 15:34.58 | jsmith | They were |
| 15:35.07 | mahelious | and stop treating laptops like a security threat |
| 15:35.22 | mahelious | Bikerdan: correct |
| 15:35.28 | Bikerdan | If they did, I'd use a laptop as a case for my explosives... |
| 15:35.40 | Bikerdan | Not me personally... :) |
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| 15:38.19 | Bikerdan | I don't know the right answer. But I do know that preventing people from bringing bombs onto a jet-liner is not as simple as some people might think. |
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| 15:44.38 | mindjuju | so Bikerdan, i'm just curious, you're saying that overall you're pleased with the status quo? i'm not arguing, just trying to understand |
| 15:45.10 | Bikerdan | Not really. I just didn't totally agree with some of the assumptions that were made. |
| 15:45.30 | Bikerdan | Like I said, "I don't know the right answer". |
| 15:45.51 | mindjuju | what's the question |
| 15:47.09 | Bikerdan | What should airline security consist of to satisfy everyone's needs? |
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| 15:48.19 | Bikerdan | The original question was, "what would you say the appropriate response would have been?" in response to a statement, "the frustrating thing to me is the negative economic impact it has had on us. Not the attack itself, but our leadership's idiocy in response to it." |
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| 15:53.31 | josePHPagoda | bikerdan, even with the attack, and the loss of life, you were far more likely to die from the flu, or from a lightening strike, than be killed by a terrorist |
| 15:54.06 | Bikerdan | Does that mean I shouldn't care? |
| 15:54.13 | josePHPagoda | it means the focus should be elsewhere |
| 15:54.23 | josePHPagoda | what could have been done if the funds had been spend on finding ways to combat the flu? |
| 15:54.37 | Bikerdan | So forget about the attacks on our soil and give researchers all of that money to fight the flu? |
| 15:54.40 | mindjuju | actually though josePHPagoda, i think Bikerdan's observation has merit and deserves thought |
| 15:55.07 | mindjuju | who can deny the collateral damage of a couple rogue planes? |
| 15:55.12 | josePHPagoda | it's a difficult question, but my point is, the terrorist attack was successful, not because of the loss of life, that was never the objective. |
| 15:55.25 | mindjuju | we're talking on the Ann. of Sept 11th, just a handful of rogue planes |
| 15:55.37 | mindjuju | so there is merit there, methinks |
| 15:55.47 | mindjuju | i see your point too, and i often argue your point |
| 15:56.00 | jsmith | More people have died falling out of bed in the last 11 years (by a wide margin!) than were killed on September 11th |
| 15:56.08 | josePHPagoda | the terrorist attack was successful because of us seeing things out of proportion |
| 15:56.33 | mindjuju | lol jsmith |
| 15:57.21 | jsmith | mindjuju: I'm not saying that to lessen the impact of 9/11 -- just saying that the human brain tends to focus on big, uncommon risks rather than small, boring, likely ones |
| 15:57.33 | mindjuju | true |
| 15:57.42 | josePHPagoda | jsmith, exactly! |
| 15:58.05 | mindjuju | but one the outlier attacks bring about so much damage, it behooves us to have somethign in place |
| 15:58.20 | mindjuju | i'm just trying to see things from what i think i understand of Bikerdan's position |
| 15:58.43 | jsmith | mindjuju: More damage than the 30k people who die from drunk driving accidents each year? |
| 15:58.57 | Bikerdan | There was also a threat that this was going to become a much bigger issue than that one instance. |
| 15:58.58 | jsmith | mindjuju: If you're going to say "so much damage", I want numbers to back it up |
| 15:59.11 | mindjuju | we have policy for drunk drivers jsmith, what we lack is enforcement |
| 15:59.15 | Bikerdan | Did we all really think that was going to be it? |
| 15:59.19 | Bikerdan | They were done with that? |
| 15:59.20 | mindjuju | and stiffer penalities |
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| 15:59.26 | jsmith | mindjuju: In other words, give me quantitative values to help my brain get better at assessing risk |
| 16:00.03 | mindjuju | sure, that's a reasonable request jsmith |
| 16:00.13 | mindjuju | just letting you know, it's going to take a minute to pull that |
| 16:00.29 | mindjuju | but right now i'm looking at direct econ impact of building damage / loss |
| 16:00.42 | mindjuju | indirect impact on econ from 9/11 |
| 16:00.53 | mindjuju | lawsuits from firemen, etc |
| 16:00.58 | mindjuju | lawsuits from property owners |
| 16:01.21 | mindjuju | lawsuits from insurance co, which curiously, one was just filed today against logan airport where the settlement is thought to be 4bil |
| 16:01.44 | jsmith | mindjuju: Also, may I suggest that you include measurements of "micromorts" in your data: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/02/micromorts.html |
| 16:02.06 | mindjuju | some may construe the wars of 11years to be a direct result of 9/11, maybe throw that in too |
| 16:02.30 | mindjuju | i think this is bigger than the 3000+ souls that died this day |
| 16:05.05 | mindjuju | so jsmith, micromorts deals with probability, does that mean that OBL was looking for somewhere to attack and that he chose at random or that he chose us for a political reason, and if a political reason, doesn't that remove the probability factor out of this? |
| 16:05.27 | mindjuju | ie, this wasn't a chance event, but a direct attact against US foreign policy? ie, this is likely to keep occuring? |
| 16:05.52 | mindjuju | swinging all the way back to Bikerdan's point, there is an urgency and we need some security? |
| 16:06.09 | jsmith | I can't speak to OBL's motives or planning, and if I could, I certainly wouldn't do it in IRC |
| 16:06.19 | jsmith | That's just plain conjecture at this point |
| 16:06.25 | Bikerdan | On a smaller scale, what would most of you do if your house was broken into and someone in your family was killed or beaten? I'm pretty sure I'd get a home security system or something along those lines. Even if math says another break-in is not likely to happen any time soon. |
| 16:06.47 | jsmith | Human nature to lock the barn door after the horses are out, right... |
| 16:06.53 | Bikerdan | exactly. |
| 16:07.00 | Bikerdan | That's what happened with 9/11 |
| 16:07.23 | josePHPagoda | yes, and then obsessing about it for the next 10 yrs |
| 16:07.36 | Bikerdan | And if I could catch the guy that did it, I sure as hell would try. |
| 16:07.39 | jsmith | I guess my point is this... I'm OK with locking the door to keep the horses out, but we'd better put up some chicken wire to keep the foxes from eating the hens as well |
| 16:07.53 | jsmith | s/horses out/horses in/ |
| 16:09.17 | ninnypants | http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=3&hp |
| 16:09.22 | jsmith | I'm arguing that we like to fixate on 9/11, but we suffer more loss (both in terms of lives lost, and I'm guessing economic impact of the loss) from less newsworthy items like drunk driving, medical mistakes, and falling out of bed |
| 16:09.51 | Bikerdan | lol |
| 16:09.58 | mindjuju | in my near 40yrs, i've never had that problem |
| 16:10.15 | Bikerdan | maybe jsmith needs a bigger bed... |
| 16:10.15 | mindjuju | i've been maliciously pulled out of bed as a prank, but never, ever rolled off |
| 16:10.23 | captbrogers | I have, twice |
| 16:10.25 | mindjuju | the man needs guardrails on his bead |
| 16:10.29 | mindjuju | lol |
| 16:10.35 | Bikerdan | maybe sleep on the floor? |
| 16:10.36 | mindjuju | oops, bed |
| 16:10.39 | ninnypants | I've rolled off and nearly hit my face on a table but caught myself at the last second |
| 16:10.52 | mindjuju | wow |
| 16:11.00 | captbrogers | No, what I need is a bed that is large enough to accommodate my wife, all my children, and myself without me having to sleep in a six inch wedge |
| 16:11.12 | Bikerdan | I'm pretty sure I disarmed my firearm in the middle of the night once... didn't realize it until the morning. |
| 16:11.13 | mindjuju | captbrogers :) |
| 16:11.19 | Bikerdan | not fired it... |
| 16:11.24 | Bikerdan | actually unloaded it. |
| 16:11.35 | josePHPagoda | captbrogers: i know how that is |
| 16:12.05 | jsmith | Bikerdan: Which is why mine isn't loaded... |
| 16:12.13 | captbrogers | That is the only reason why I've fallen out |
| 16:12.24 | Bikerdan | jsmith: do you keep it by your bed? |
| 16:12.34 | mindjuju | so i'm just curious, for those of you who nearly fell off your bed, was this during a calm night of sleep, a nightmare, or some other activity? |
| 16:12.38 | jsmith | Bikerdan: I'm not going to tell you where I keep it, if you don't mind. |
| 16:12.42 | Bikerdan | lol |
| 16:12.44 | Bikerdan | that's fine |
| 16:12.49 | captbrogers | and in that moment of terror I realized how long it had been since my last pina colada slurpee |
| 16:13.15 | Bikerdan | I was just thinking if that would actually help at all if ammunition is still near. |
| 16:13.30 | ninnypants | mindjuju: I think mine was a pretty calm night but it was a long time ago |
| 16:13.40 | josephscott | can someone please go fix github :-) |
| 16:13.45 | Bikerdan | If I was able to completely unload my handgun, I'm pretty sure I could load it too. |
| 16:13.46 | captbrogers | ninnypants: In a galaxy far far away? |
| 16:13.57 | ninnypants | captbrogers: basically |
| 16:14.04 | mindjuju | ninnypants, that's very interesting, i'm going to me much more careful about sleeping |
| 16:14.18 | ninnypants | mindjuju: make sure to concentrate on it ;) |
| 16:14.25 | Bikerdan | mindjuju: Maybe seatbelts |
| 16:14.34 | mindjuju | guardrail i'm thinking |
| 16:14.42 | captbrogers | josephscott: getting 405 errors? |
| 16:15.44 | ninnypants | mindjuju: I saw a thing where they put swimming noodles under the sheet so kids couldn't roll out maybe something like that |
| 16:15.59 | josephscott | captbrogers: all sorts of errors |
| 16:16.06 | josePHPagoda | i live life on the edge! I sleep in a bed! |
| 16:16.06 | captbrogers | So I need everyone's opinion on the following dream and rate me on a scale of 1 to murdering psychopath: |
| 16:16.18 | mindjuju | 10 |
| 16:16.24 | mindjuju | oops, have you said it yet? |
| 16:16.32 | mindjuju | limh |
| 16:16.42 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 16:16.56 | captbrogers | Bane was chasing me and my family threatening to kill my children and trying to do inappropriate things to me. I ended up beating him to death with a shovel in front of Walmart |
| 16:17.08 | captbrogers | I _have not_ seen the last Batman movie yet |
| 16:17.09 | ninnypants | josephscott: I've been stuck on a project all morning because it requires the github api |
| 16:17.13 | Bikerdan | 10 |
| 16:17.22 | mindjuju | captbrogers, did you buy the shovel at walmart? |
| 16:17.26 | Bikerdan | lol |
| 16:17.33 | Bikerdan | cause that would make you a 5 |
| 16:17.39 | captbrogers | mindjuju: No purchase, they were on display outside |
| 16:17.45 | mindjuju | ah gotcha |
| 16:17.58 | captbrogers | I'm not lying about this dream either, it happened two nights ago and I worry about the fragility of my psyche because of it |
| 16:18.25 | ninnypants | so it wasn't a bat and your dieing sister hadn't said swing away? |
| 16:18.28 | Bikerdan | the question is whether you felt more like it was a fantasy or a nightmare. |
| 16:18.37 | mindjuju | i would have to say that if he had bought it at walmart, that meant bargain shopping, thrift and ability to think calmly in a dangerous situation, so i'd have moved it to a 5 for captbrogers |
| 16:18.51 | mindjuju | but this was malicious theft of walmart property |
| 16:19.04 | mindjuju | so i think that inches him --> |
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| 16:19.16 | Bikerdan | maybe a 7.75 |
| 16:19.21 | captbrogers | I woke up, stared at the wall a moment as the nightmare coalesced into memory, then mumbled, "What...the...frak...?" |
| 16:19.24 | mindjuju | sounds about right for me |
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| 16:20.31 | Bikerdan | I think the "What... the...frak...?" mumbling was an automatic two tenths deduction. |
| 16:21.31 | mindjuju | keen observation there Bikerdan |
| 16:21.37 | Bikerdan | thx |
| 16:21.57 | captbrogers | So I'm at a 7.55? |
| 16:22.17 | mindjuju | still though on the spectrum of madness, on a scale of 1 --> 10 where 10 is stark raving mad, that put you at a 7.55 |
| 16:22.18 | mindjuju | yup |
| 16:22.36 | Bikerdan | That's pretty good captbrogers. |
| 16:22.36 | captbrogers | So I'm only about a point up from my usual spot, not bad |
| 16:22.51 | mindjuju | sounds like you fit right in, in #uphpu |
| 16:23.02 | Bikerdan | Keep up the good work. |
| 16:23.20 | captbrogers | I just realized where the dream came from |
| 16:23.32 | mindjuju | fyi captbrogers, for jsmith we had to expand the spectrum just to keep up ;) |
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| 16:24.21 | jsmith | mindjuju: Whatever it takes... |
| 16:24.26 | captbrogers | Last Saturday I was in a K-Mart buying a DSi for my daughter (Christmas) and I put on a Batman mask from the Halloween aisle, crept up behind my wife, and in my best Bale-man voice I told her: "I'm the husband you need, not the one you deserve..." |
| 16:25.24 | captbrogers | Bale-man = Christian Bale's Batman voice |
| 16:25.29 | captbrogers | The gargling marble one |
| 16:25.40 | captbrogers | s/marble/marbles/g |
| 16:26.54 | Bikerdan | I'm surprised she didn't have the nightmare.... |
| 16:27.05 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 16:27.21 | captbrogers | She rolled her eyes and said quietly, "You're lucky you make enough money..." |
| 16:27.29 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 16:27.32 | ninnypants | http://i.imgur.com/xQBRs.jpg |
| 16:27.38 | captbrogers | Not really, she just told me to quit being stupid |
| 16:27.46 | Bikerdan | So you were right... You're the one she needs... |
| 16:28.07 | mindjuju | ninnypants, that's awesome |
| 16:29.32 | mindjuju | the only thing to make it better would be this http://newcmc.info/images/image_animated_email.gif |
| 16:30.09 | peno | win8 is awful, imho. |
| 16:31.00 | mindjuju | i've got to admit, i've got 0.00 seconds facetime with win8, but if gabe says it is le sux, i believe it |
| 16:31.56 | peno | i grabbed a copy from msdn, and installed into virtualbox. i'm not impressed with it. |
| 16:33.36 | ninnypants | I've been using it as my main machine for a while and hated it at first but it's not too bad now |
| 16:34.28 | ninnypants | mostly because you can hit the windows key and start typing and it fuzzy matches all your programs which makes launching quick |
| 16:35.13 | ninnypants | not as good as something like Alfred on mac but better than other versions of windows |
| 16:35.53 | ninnypants | the one thing I do hate though is the new style app windows for some of the built in apps |
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| 17:14.37 | captbrogers | Anyone up for an early lunch? |
| 17:14.44 | captbrogers | Head out in about 20 minutes? |
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| 17:24.55 | mindjuju | fungus / peno did yall see this? http://www.networking-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=29803 |
| 17:25.08 | mindjuju | it's pictures of what is thought to be a google switch |
| 17:25.16 | mindjuju | got link from a wired article |
| 17:26.28 | herlo | heh |
| 17:26.50 | captbrogers | Expect black helicopters to be coming your way soon, mindjuju |
| 17:27.10 | mindjuju | they are here already, we're going out for lunch ;) |
| 17:27.43 | mindjuju | and time was plentiful |
| 17:29.14 | captbrogers | That time was called, "Single" for me |
| 17:29.48 | captbrogers | Oddly, I also didn't get hit in the crotch as much either |
| 17:30.10 | mindjuju | ouch |
| 17:30.31 | captbrogers | Little kids mean that danger is always present any time I get on the floor to wrestle with them |
| 17:30.42 | ShunkyDave | My wife and I have been joking about that around our kids. "Oh man, we would have SO MUCH money! We could go to Disneyland every month!" |
| 17:30.45 | ShunkyDave | the kids don't like it |
| 17:31.07 | mindjuju | :) |
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| 17:46.14 | mindjuju | this is too funny, doubt it is real - https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/387272_244921228898257_1262981120_n.jpg |
| 17:47.34 | ninnypants | looks like it might be from a movie |
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| 18:05.01 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: what's sad is how much that pic has proliferated: https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZit7iJx700uSuzHLoO8FMn2oRYtzqO4IDvo67i_1aSMgJmXhehPuIGTtFtQZa4H79Z_1dE7hujdaxrNL8HcqqxsqcThDzCsazRpQ0ns5hz7Pc6Cve8PkQArfqTaG-kZVcVJKQahHnN8PzFrbxLv1m5R1IFDUTjwaN6GcBAmIb6DRjcCvh_1qDkWNm-7FfDpVlWfReNkr9eXpVJ6F_12ussOIcDiLKj2ICogB26RX2s98Xc9saqPazZF5QXrEvmjeWBWU-DjKYi6Y9Wx1YCptBPXm5_16ZbZWOAQQYU1nSmDPkjIiYbmBzw-NROgrZkebsrdkELPPLYb3-yvEQnT |
| 18:05.02 | TuxToaster | UKhwojMpXv5_1qEcbN6WneGMLDbyr0NSGKC4h5qzNhU_1GpTzoHJsM-gZBKFFqJwdifJtf8BqAZdO7tRZmVGRgf5eP7kz7LFIQh_1sblYpovWBm5FoEFvVCptcYzBP3bcfZSuv2Z34PjZpLwggfz5TiHnOuZqM6YX2sZYP1qXCXU08NeVAfgyJSXtBPcnXzgIE6cKSgToSh06i2wpGEa0LoZtA-Rtgpqv42o7gqaesQJEJL2R9jytyngwNcAjucVS4NhlUPb8kDb_1v0aB05SHs2j4HoTu6Q4R7RbCvqDSzyX9NgQqxkTgsNRfvpDWoWfPdTAbXP-WwqsEFP1UssXe81k8y17BcjM43ztnw-c_1nwE-fGr7PVwnTSbkTcaaM-JFTnspiWhW9Qhu75T-s8MVBot7eutBJoi92dvA5JQUZLSVkNiBB28zrL |
| 18:05.02 | TuxToaster | hQ3seqU7UFbZ3vQgPQYN6SHQZR5Ktrbbrmoa3efS0KtyYGW_1gJmjb7ucbyd-S41olCA9dBGLqhhmVumLH7PGccM4-Qg9nUrO3nwKv7CxD_19tq4u9l1IkDKCv5RaFKYW-6Hni9UAbEWAqCBQPm2SddG_11q6wKNW-4AclJrYslGzM_1niTNqRCF3uS3aJhRdIo4Cboc6aPrhh2HU_1IfqQRbsp8BUT_1cNUDHCnQYhfYBuvNdrsIWfLWzMUpvsuiRwNB73oiR8tlve9L4MmbrXe4q7go7ZR6GOe9LEPKf-AIz1h8RXUGAo0yUA_1tUrveFQYXTToiPF3QuFbU_1eqgnubtl8dU5gbFMPl4JrIW8cPedemYwwp7X98aODBg2Dz0j584ugxdbCfqCapeofA_1J03kdkHQgLlKeEFvTyfS4wWNFXf1WhaVd |
| 18:05.03 | TuxToaster | wxCkbM_1NEl6ChdMnNKvIXXcS614wRg7tpXsF0A7wCHWLUQRR3crACtndA7pR5dBc1r6Lu_1BIvay1n3mzmlMogC2pegf8ZcwyMNOxbRQBi6wyXjXYYIxXXtf51RoVHws5M&num=10&hl=en&bih=613&biw=1280 |
| 18:05.07 | TuxToaster | holy crap. |
| 18:05.14 | TuxToaster | google link fail. |
| 18:05.21 | mindjuju | uh |
| 18:05.24 | mindjuju | thx? |
| 18:05.36 | TuxToaster | http://cl.ly/073n3Q301p1o |
| 18:05.40 | TuxToaster | there we go. lol |
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| 18:09.51 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: http://www.wimp.com/curiousbear/ |
| 18:13.28 | ninnypants | I'm impress with how calm the guy was |
| 18:16.18 | mindjuju | that's funny TuxToaster |
| 18:19.02 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Wow! |
| 18:19.15 | ninnypants | "We don't measure our success by financial results." http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/techcrunch-jargon.html |
| 18:28.46 | SunSparc | lol |
| 18:35.11 | TuxToaster | I totally would have wanted to reach out and pet the bear. |
| 18:35.21 | TuxToaster | but hard to tell if he was looking for food or was just genuinely curious. |
| 18:36.34 | mindjuju | i wonder if i should get a beardo - http://cache0.bigcartel.com/product_images/43568675/black_hangover.jpg |
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| 18:42.54 | SunSparc | mindjuju: It would keep your face warm. :) |
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| 18:46.05 | TuxToaster | so, so wrong... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJvEgNeU4kQ&feature=player_embedded |
| 18:48.01 | TuxToaster | I could make so many programming jokes at that one.... |
| 18:48.03 | TuxToaster | Uncaught exception thrown in NSFW_Controller on line 10. |
| 18:48.23 | TuxToaster | also things about collisions and vulnerabilities. etc. |
| 18:49.38 | mindjuju | SunSparc - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=_1mz1wR6HVE |
| 18:50.52 | SunSparc | mindjuju: lol!!! |
| 18:51.09 | SunSparc | Looks painful |
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| 19:01.04 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org | Web developers rock |
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| 19:42.51 | ninnypants | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/six-strikes-internet-warning-system-really-truly-coming-to-us-this-year/ |
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| 19:58.27 | mindjuju | ninnypants - i wonder how peteashdown is going to address this? |
| 19:58.45 | mindjuju | i'd askhim, but i'm mega busy at the moment |
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| 20:24.25 | ninnypants | mindjuju: I think it's on a per-ISP basis so he doesn't even have to support it as far as I could tell from reading |
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| 20:27.07 | mindjuju | heh, doubt that |
| 20:27.24 | mindjuju | likely they'll bring pressure via upstream provider |
| 20:27.36 | mindjuju | XO and who ever else provides for Xmission |
| 20:38.30 | ninnypants | mindjuju: is it a government thing? Seemed like it was just an agreement between some ISPs and Content Providers |
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| 21:12.12 | fungus | mindjuju, I agree w/ ninnypants. That issue looks to be a mutual agreement between top ISPs |
| 21:13.44 | fungus | And upstream providers are unlikely to be able to apply any pressure to independent ISPs like XMission, especially since XM has multiple upstream providers, has it's own allocation of IP addresses, and it's own BGP registration. |
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| 21:15.13 | ninnypants | yeah makes me a little less worried that something stupid will hapen since it's likely to only be ISPs like Comcast, AT&T and Verizon that implement it if any |
| 21:17.25 | fungus | Yeah, but those of us using one of these ISPs are screwed. |
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| 21:43.26 | mindjuju | i'm feeling like doing something dangerous |
| 21:43.38 | beandog | get a mullet |
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| 21:44.04 | mindjuju | that said, i have a bash command. And because i like to live my life on the edge, i want to give a dev the ability to run said bash, but from a web page |
| 21:44.12 | mindjuju | now, this is an internal only server |
| 21:44.19 | mindjuju | but still, there are risks |
| 21:44.28 | beandog | what kind of risks |
| 21:44.40 | beandog | setup sudo so he can only run that one command |
| 21:44.41 | mindjuju | so before i whip out the ole exec(), wanted to see if there was something safer |
| 21:45.02 | beandog | or |
| 21:45.06 | beandog | if it's not time sensitive |
| 21:45.09 | beandog | have the script set a flag |
| 21:45.17 | mindjuju | i was just reading about that |
| 21:45.21 | beandog | and a system cron job checks to see if that flag is set, and runs the command |
| 21:45.31 | mindjuju | php -> write file -> cron see & do |
| 21:45.42 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 21:45.43 | beandog | well you don't even need to write to a file |
| 21:45.47 | beandog | it can be database |
| 21:45.49 | beandog | tmp file |
| 21:45.50 | beandog | whatever. |
| 21:46.56 | fungus | mindjuju, there's a few layers you should check to be sure. |
| 21:47.09 | fungus | 1. Authentication (even for internal servers) |
| 21:47.29 | fungus | 2. rigorously check input (no injection problems) |
| 21:47.46 | fungus | 3. SSL preferred, even if it's self-signed |
| 21:47.59 | beandog | I was gonna say the first two, but was too lazy |
| 21:48.03 | beandog | 3rd one is a great idea as well |
| 21:48.05 | fungus | 4. limit sudo to this one account and one command |
| 21:48.38 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: fwiw, I've preferred passthru to exec, don't remember exactly why, but it worked better. |
| 21:48.40 | fungus | Or beandog's idea of using a flag (db,file, etc) and cron job combo can be good too |
| 21:49.22 | TuxToaster | but I did have some scripts that would run passthru and did exactly that, user had specific sudo access to the one or two binaries that were needed to run. |
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| 21:50.21 | fungus | TuxToaster, it depends on your needs. passthru is great when you want all the output spit out to the user directly. |
| 21:50.33 | beandog | output ALL the things |
| 21:50.38 | fungus | exec is better if you want the output to yourself. |
| 21:50.46 | beandog | yah, PHP's exec functions are nice. |
| 21:51.07 | fungus | I tend to prefer system() where appropriate. |
| 21:51.33 | macnewbold | my favorite are the backticks ` ` |
| 21:52.04 | beandog | I hate backticks. You can mistake them for quotes |
| 21:52.31 | fungus | mindjuju, just note it's not necessarily bad to run the command directly from PHP, as long as you have that code protected well. |
| 21:52.44 | beandog | ~tick macnewbold |
| 21:52.45 | beandog | :D |
| 21:52.47 | mindjuju | yeah, that was my worry |
| 21:55.11 | TuxToaster | fungus: yeah, when I first used it I wasn't spitting output to the user, I was doing some parsing on it, but I had issues with exec. Don't recall what though. |
| 21:55.35 | TuxToaster | the other times I've used passthru is when I've had dev toolbars to force svn updates and such, it's nice for that |
| 21:55.53 | fungus | yup. pick the right tool for the right job. |
| 21:58.01 | TuxToaster | http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/116730_700b.jpg |
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| 22:17.06 | mindjuju | that's awesome TuxToaster |
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