| 15:09.27 | *** join/#uphpu ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 15:09.27 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org | Web developers rock |
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| 15:38.21 | jnbek|wc | only by 36 hours, but, hey../.. |
| 15:43.33 | Monnok | $rlart |
| 15:43.33 | raifbot | beats mgeary senseless with a 50lb Unix manual. |
| 15:43.54 | Monnok | morning all |
| 15:44.16 | captbrogers | No Monnok, no. |
| 15:57.08 | SunSparc | ~morning Monnok |
| 15:57.08 | ibot | ACTION bends space and time, trapping Monnok in a universe of eternal monday mornings |
| 15:57.26 | Monnok | oh i see how it is |
| 15:57.40 | Monnok | monday > tuesday |
| 15:57.46 | SunSparc | ibot: give Monnok a cookie |
| 15:57.46 | ibot | ACTION gives Monnok a home-baked chocolate chip cookie to cheer him up. |
| 15:57.46 | Monnok | so it could be worse |
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| 17:19.33 | josephscott | $rm software patents |
| 17:19.33 | raifbot | opens /dev/null and eliminates software patents forever. |
| 17:26.42 | *** join/#uphpu Benni_Hanna (~Byteme@neutroninteractive-xmission.xmission.com) |
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| 17:41.17 | Heartsbane | Benni_Hanna: http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteinge/videos |
| 17:54.44 | herlo | that's an awesome video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxv2y3DmMJk |
| 17:56.59 | captbrogers | herlo: that isn't too bad for me now |
| 17:57.28 | *** join/#uphpu skinner2 (~David@128.187.201.174) |
| 17:57.28 | captbrogers | The previous owners of my house kept ~20 cats/dogs in the house any any given time. I had to rip up all the carpet to properly sanitize things |
| 18:07.01 | mindjuju | captbrogers, the previous owner of our house fancied himself a carptener... lulz /facepalm |
| 18:08.18 | mindjuju | i got mega awesome home inspector who caught 99% of everything that was an issue and we got price knocked down |
| 18:08.23 | mindjuju | love that guy |
| 18:09.43 | Bikerdan | Speaking of houses/yards and stuff. I need to buy a new lawnmower. Any of you have any recommendations for me? |
| 18:10.27 | mindjuju | say Bikerdan, what do you call a cow in your front yard? a lawn moo-er |
| 18:10.27 | fungus | Bikerdan, get a goat. |
| 18:10.33 | *** join/#uphpu captbrogers1 (~brian@128.187.164.166) |
| 18:10.37 | herlo | captbrogers: lol, that's whiteinge, he's an institution around here. I didn't know he lived like that though :) |
| 18:10.38 | mindjuju | ^5fungus |
| 18:10.41 | Bikerdan | Two great answers. |
| 18:11.02 | Bikerdan | But not useful at all.... |
| 18:11.23 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 18:11.33 | mindjuju | i cut MANY a lawn with a murray |
| 18:11.43 | Bikerdan | Sears murray? |
| 18:11.54 | fungus | I can't give a useful answer, i've only mowed my lawn once in my lifetime. |
| 18:12.07 | mindjuju | like this one Bikerdan - http://www.murray.com/us/en/LA-US-push-mowers/M22450/ |
| 18:12.10 | Bikerdan | Then you got a goat? |
| 18:12.21 | fungus | no, I have someone do it for me. |
| 18:12.27 | Benni_Hanna | Sears Murray has those nice sit-down mowers ^ ^ |
| 18:12.47 | mindjuju | talk about job security for the goat. goat doesn't have to worry about getting the axe, fungus == vegetarian |
| 18:12.59 | fungus | lol |
| 18:13.02 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 18:13.22 | fungus | My dad before I moved out, then my sister at my next place, and now the teenage kid from up the street. |
| 18:13.23 | Bikerdan | How much does that run you fungus? |
| 18:13.46 | fungus | about $20/mo |
| 18:13.55 | Bikerdan | That's cheap. |
| 18:13.55 | mindjuju | fair price |
| 18:14.06 | Bikerdan | Does he weedeat and everything else? |
| 18:14.13 | mindjuju | we have a local scout do it for $10 but our front yard isn't big at all |
| 18:14.17 | fungus | Yup, find a naive teenage kid. |
| 18:14.22 | mindjuju | word |
| 18:14.22 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 18:14.31 | mindjuju | kid needs money, you have lawn, win = win |
| 18:14.34 | *** join/#uphpu skinner1 (~David@128.187.201.174) |
| 18:14.43 | Bikerdan | Capitalism at it's finest. |
| 18:15.00 | mindjuju | Bikerdan, but our guy doesn't do weeding, that's extra |
| 18:15.05 | fungus | yup, those with the power have control over the proletariat. |
| 18:15.27 | Bikerdan | control? |
| 18:15.33 | Bikerdan | Do you force him to do it? |
| 18:15.33 | mindjuju | he paw is my mechanic and neighbor so i try to give him a fair wage, if i need anything extra done, it's usually a 10 bill |
| 18:16.08 | fungus | not force, just explaining capitalism. Those w/ money have power over those that don't have power (or money). |
| 18:16.37 | Bikerdan | Like what kind of power? |
| 18:16.48 | fungus | And those w/ money/power have the best ability to get more money/power |
| 18:16.55 | fungus | money == power |
| 18:17.36 | mindjuju | oh man Bikerdan, did i ever tell you the story of when we moved into the house and i bought a HUGE block of food storage? paid 2 scouts $40 to move it ALL into the basement. told them they could work as fast or slow as they wanted. Took them like an hour and a half with like a 10 minute break. best $$ i evar spent |
| 18:17.45 | mindjuju | my feet didn't hurt, my back didn't hurt |
| 18:17.47 | mindjuju | life is good |
| 18:18.17 | Bikerdan | mindjuju: True dat |
| 18:19.12 | fungus | I was a secret communist until I got me some money/power, now I'm on the receiving end of the benefits of capitalism, so it's ok now. :P |
| 18:19.43 | mindjuju | that's funny |
| 18:19.56 | Bikerdan | That's usually how it works. |
| 18:20.06 | fungus | Exactly. |
| 18:20.13 | Bikerdan | Everyone's in it for themselves. What's why we have political parties! |
| 18:20.45 | Bikerdan | I don't care how poor I am, I still don't believe that people should have to give me their money... |
| 18:20.46 | fungus | It works until the masses notice and band together and revolt. |
| 18:21.33 | Bikerdan | brb |
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| 19:03.11 | SunSparc | Oooh, a philosophical conversation about money. Nice. |
| 19:04.22 | SunSparc | I have an idea for a great project. If I had a million dollars I could totally make it happen. But if I had a million dollars would I still have the motivation to pursue the great project? |
| 19:06.20 | fungus | heh, maybe not. You'd be too focused on how to either keep that money, or get more to actually work on your project. |
| 19:07.03 | fungus | at least most people do. |
| 19:07.23 | TuxToaster | I'd pay off my house and car. |
| 19:07.30 | SunSparc | Yeah. I have been thinking about that a bit. Because I do actually have plenty of projects that would be great and could make lots of money. But I do not have the time/capital to put into them at the moment to get them going. But if I had that money... ya know. :) |
| 19:07.43 | TuxToaster | that way, I'd be able to use the other 75% of my paychecks. |
| 19:07.48 | fungus | I'd need 2 million. 1 for my great project, and 1 to keep me financially safe for life. |
| 19:07.54 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 19:08.29 | fungus | TuxToaster, 75% of your check goes to home and car? bummer. |
| 19:10.12 | TuxToaster | fungus: well, it's actually more like 50% |
| 19:10.19 | TuxToaster | but it feels like 75 sometimes. |
| 19:10.32 | fungus | Yeah, I know that feeling. |
| 19:10.56 | TuxToaster | just under 50% if you don't count a little bit I have go into a savings account, and 56% if you do. |
| 19:11.09 | TuxToaster | somehow, that doesn't sound right. |
| 19:11.51 | josephscott | SunSparc: that is why the idea itself often isn't super valuable, executing on it is :-) |
| 19:12.18 | SunSparc | josephscott: So true. |
| 19:12.19 | fungus | agreed, tell that to the patent trolls |
| 19:12.20 | SunSparc | Ok, a tangent to money, would it be a terrible thing to eliminate the federal income tax? |
| 19:12.30 | josephscott | $rm patent trolls |
| 19:12.30 | raifbot | opens /dev/null and eliminates patent trolls forever. |
| 19:12.36 | TuxToaster | fungus: yeah, it's 44%. Much better. |
| 19:12.38 | fungus | SunSparc, and replace it w/ what? |
| 19:12.47 | Heartsbane | josephscott: you keep saying that |
| 19:13.10 | TuxToaster | $rm / |
| 19:13.10 | raifbot | opens /dev/null and eliminates / forever. |
| 19:13.15 | josephscott | Heartsbane: maybe if I say it enough it will come true |
| 19:13.28 | Heartsbane | um ok |
| 19:13.51 | Heartsbane | Everyone say hello to Benni_Hanna, he eats kittens |
| 19:14.03 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: the government needs revenue from somewhere. |
| 19:14.21 | fungus | Try that instead. |
| 19:14.23 | SunSparc | fungus: I am just thinking about the idea of bringing back state sovereignty. Taxes are paid local and state. Then what little federal government we have submits requests to the states for funding. |
| 19:14.29 | josephscott | I like the AUS system (at least when I lived there), no sales tax, higher income tax |
| 19:14.38 | TuxToaster | or we need a replacement for the government to maintain roads, etc. |
| 19:14.51 | *** part/#uphpu captbrogers1 (~brian@128.187.164.166) |
| 19:14.52 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: interesting. |
| 19:15.18 | SunSparc | josephscott: And by higher we are talking greater than 50% income tax because of all the people that live on the dole. |
| 19:15.44 | TuxToaster | I do wonder though, if the federal government became weak enough, would some of the states try to break away and become independant? |
| 19:15.49 | josephscott | not sure what the exact % was |
| 19:16.09 | josephscott | SunSparc: you'll need a new constitutional amendment to go with that plan |
| 19:16.28 | josephscott | we tried weak federal gov, didn't work out very well |
| 19:16.54 | SunSparc | Initially, the federal government only had the job of keeping the nation safe and some other things. Then Lincoln and the rest of the yanks took the power from the states and started making the federal government a monolithic beast. |
| 19:17.31 | Benni_Hanna | cough *hairball* |
| 19:17.43 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 19:17.48 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:17.55 | josephscott | I think Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 would disagree with you |
| 19:18.23 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 19:18.23 | raifbot | takes tierra to the vet for a "special" visit. |
| 19:18.40 | TuxToaster | $8ball do you enjoy those "special" visits or something? |
| 19:18.40 | raifbot | TuxToaster - You may rely on it. |
| 19:18.47 | TuxToaster | raifbot: I'd rather not. |
| 19:18.48 | fungus | SunSparc, I disagree. I think we need to reduce state sovereignty and become more cohesive as a country. Coming together as a people should be our goal, not more reasons to separate. |
| 19:19.16 | fungus | We need to move our whole world toward a global government, the entire human race together as one people. |
| 19:19.20 | SunSparc | fungus: Could be. |
| 19:19.26 | fungus | I know it's a pipe dream, but that should be our goal. |
| 19:19.45 | josephscott | we could start by annexing Mexico ;-) |
| 19:19.59 | josephscott | well, we could pay for it I guess, how about a check for $1 trillion? |
| 19:20.00 | fungus | What state you are from now should have as much importance as what county you live in now. |
| 19:20.00 | SunSparc | Sounds ideal. The problem I see is people who want to have power over other people. |
| 19:20.37 | TuxToaster | fungus: too many people like my MiL that would make that difficult. The general attitude of "I'm open to different opinions, but if you don't agree with mine, you're just wrong." |
| 19:20.38 | fungus | SunSparc, that's a problem no matter where you draw the lines. |
| 19:20.49 | SunSparc | technically, the definition of a state is the definition of a country. |
| 19:20.56 | SunSparc | fungus: yep |
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| 19:22.17 | fungus | I think your idea for no federal income tax would be bad. It would move us in the reverse direction. |
| 19:22.39 | fungus | Make our country weak as it would be dependent upon bickering individual states. |
| 19:22.50 | josephscott | I'd just prefer to only be taxed once, instead of multiple times |
| 19:22.58 | SunSparc | Too have would peace and unity like that, you almost have to just get rid of all governments. Since governments are usually the cause of wars (I think). But a lack of governing organization is not necessarily the answer either. |
| 19:23.26 | SunSparc | josephscott: amen to that, but then accountants would lose their jobs (*gasp*) |
| 19:23.50 | josephscott | naw, there would still be money to track :-) |
| 19:24.55 | SunSparc | fungus: Yes, perhaps having states compete like corporations would not be a good idea. From a certain perspective, it sounds appealing, but I see some cons to it as well. |
| 19:25.16 | fungus | SunSparc, you're a mormon, look at the LDS church for a model of taxation. All money collected goes to a central authority which then distributes it as needed. |
| 19:25.26 | SunSparc | I am just trying to sort out the huge mess of the world in my mind and getting no where. :) |
| 19:25.38 | fungus | I think that would come closer. |
| 19:25.45 | josephscott | let us know when you've got it figured out :-) |
| 19:25.57 | SunSparc | fungus: Yes, it is true, their model seems to be fairly effective. |
| 19:26.06 | SunSparc | josephscott: lol, will do. |
| 19:26.17 | josephscott | fungus: I think one of the reasons that works is that there is a reasonable level (and expectation) of trust |
| 19:26.27 | fungus | agreed |
| 19:26.51 | josephscott | which is the opposite of how most people feel about govt, unfortunately situation |
| 19:26.54 | SunSparc | They also require some accountability. |
| 19:27.22 | fungus | agreed, agreed. That is the first most fundamental change that needs to happen first. |
| 19:27.22 | SunSparc | They also do not just give out money to be used on Twinkies and ice cream and new tvs. |
| 19:28.10 | fungus | But it will be a difficult change since the establishment will make it a very difficult change. See previous rant about Capitalism. |
| 19:28.19 | Benni_Hanna | Twinkies are so awesome |
| 19:28.21 | SunSparc | So much change needed, and all my elected officials want to do is bicker and make it look like they are doing something worth being kept in office. |
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| 19:30.37 | fungus | anarchy and peace are pretty much complete opposites. |
| 19:31.03 | fungus | Unless everyone is like Buddha. |
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| 19:31.54 | SunSparc | fungus: yep. |
| 19:32.50 | SunSparc | What is that quote: "teach people correct principles and let the people govern themselves". A utopian society requires a moral people who make good choices. |
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| 19:34.03 | fungus | That'd be nice, and that what the soviets tried to do. But that requirement of perfect people is unrealistic. |
| 19:34.37 | unum | SunSparc: are you familiar with articles of confederation? |
| 19:35.17 | SunSparc | unum: I have heard of them, cannot say I have read them. |
| 19:35.21 | unum | there's a reason we moved away from them |
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| 19:35.35 | unum | they had a similiar idea of federal taxation as you suggest |
| 19:35.48 | mahelious | "unrealistic" is such a strong word. |
| 19:36.09 | unum | I know there is a strong belief among many that the founding fathers did things better than us, but I just don't think that's true |
| 19:36.27 | unum | I think we've made all sort of improvements in government over the last 200+ years |
| 19:36.33 | mahelious | people can be as good and law-abiding as you want them to be. but for some reason we think we've moved past the methods required for such behavior. |
| 19:37.00 | unum | has anyone read schneiers new book, I think it makes some very relevants points |
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| 19:37.15 | unum | I haven't read it, but he talks about it a lot on his blog |
| 19:37.18 | fungus | unum, I just bought it on Audible. Haven't started it yet though. |
| 19:37.48 | unum | I'm tempted to read it because it sounds like it makes a lot of good points about good government |
| 19:37.50 | fungus | lol, talk about timing. I just got it yesterday. |
| 19:39.24 | fungus | I'm in the middle of the Steve Jobs bio, after that i'm hitting Liars and Outliers next. |
| 19:39.24 | unum | from what I've read it's all about society's attempts to get people to do what the majority has agreed is right |
| 19:39.53 | unum | and about how the minority works around those attempts |
| 19:42.18 | Heartsbane | My god #UPHPU has turned into #utah without all the insulting comments about someone else beliefs |
| 19:43.03 | fungus | lol, I can start throwing out insults if you want? |
| 19:43.18 | mindjuju_ | all i know is that i want a sailboat, a long rope with an anchor, a bbq grill and a hammock. move boat to bora bora, put anchor in middle of small island, turn rudder to the right and just go around in a circle |
| 19:43.30 | mindjuju_ | when i get tired of that, i'll turn the rudder left and go the other way |
| 19:43.54 | fungus | lol, nice idea. As long as there's good wifi |
| 19:44.03 | SunSparc | ~insult Heartsbane |
| 19:44.41 | SunSparc | mindjuju_: sounds nice |
| 19:44.56 | SunSparc | Did any of you read this essay? http://libertasutah.org/essay/crowd-the-government-out/ |
| 19:47.31 | SunSparc | Interesting concept. Not sure how realistic it is. Again, it requires people to be proactively decent human beings who think of others instead of just themselves. |
| 19:48.17 | mindjuju_ | read first paragraph, have a concern |
| 19:48.36 | fungus | mindjuju_, agreed. |
| 19:49.20 | fungus | first paragraph is grievous errors. |
| 19:49.37 | mindjuju_ | well, i wouldn't say i fault it on that thought |
| 19:49.44 | mindjuju_ | i have issue with this |
| 19:50.22 | mindjuju_ | the US is divided into many camps of political thought. all of them vying for control, no strategies to outdo, undo , to thwart the control of another in an never-ending battle for control |
| 19:50.28 | mindjuju_ | a house divided can not stand |
| 19:51.00 | mindjuju_ | simple as that |
| 19:51.08 | SunSparc | True. |
| 19:51.15 | SunSparc | How do we unite? |
| 19:51.20 | Bikerdan | That's exactly why everyone should be forced to think exactly like me! |
| 19:51.20 | mahelious | compromise |
| 19:51.22 | fungus | compromise |
| 19:51.25 | Bikerdan | Problem solved! |
| 19:51.33 | mindjuju_ | yup, we've got to talk this out |
| 19:51.34 | fungus | or agree w/ Bikerdan |
| 19:51.39 | SunSparc | lol |
| 19:51.51 | mahelious | but thats not going to happen with our current set of representatives |
| 19:51.59 | Bikerdan | If I were president... |
| 19:52.16 | mindjuju_ | take fungus who just argued for world government and i can see that you want strong local government SunSparc, you guys need to hammer that out |
| 19:52.21 | SunSparc | Ok, you may not be mormon, but one of my favorite phrases from the book of mormon is, "subjecting them to peace and civilization" (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/51.22?lang=eng#21) |
| 19:52.31 | fungus | mahelious, it's not the representatives themselves that are bad at compromise. It's the system that creates this need to not compromise. |
| 19:53.13 | SunSparc | mindjuju_: I do not think that local government needs to be at odds with global government. |
| 19:53.24 | mahelious | fungus: but the system is the individuals |
| 19:53.47 | fungus | There are many representatives that are good people, but are railroaded into this system of living from campaign to campaign. |
| 19:53.58 | mindjuju_ | so see SunSparc, didn't know that but that clarity helps to find a middle ground with fungus |
| 19:54.10 | SunSparc | fungus: so true |
| 19:54.18 | mindjuju_ | i'd recommend talking it out over 5guys, but fungus is vegetarian |
| 19:54.36 | mindjuju_ | maybe a pho noodle place? |
| 19:54.41 | SunSparc | mindjuju_: I agree, communication is the key to success and lack of good open communication is the key to failure. |
| 19:54.43 | Bikerdan | One of the problems with a global government is the diversity of our cultures. |
| 19:54.51 | knicholes | Want some partially used vegetarian protein powder? I got it from NuSkin and I can't stand it. |
| 19:54.52 | mindjuju_ | nah |
| 19:54.52 | Bikerdan | There is no way that will ever work. |
| 19:55.05 | Benni_Hanna | I love PHPolitics |
| 19:55.07 | mindjuju_ | Bikerdan, having lived in China for a year, i've learned 1 thing |
| 19:55.16 | Bikerdan | ? |
| 19:55.23 | mindjuju_ | they worried just like me about their job, they worried that if that girl over there liked them |
| 19:55.32 | mindjuju_ | they worried about food, and their house and their kids |
| 19:55.40 | SunSparc | mindjuju_: bingo |
| 19:55.47 | mindjuju_ | and this is a culture that doesn't even use a romanized alphabet |
| 19:55.58 | mindjuju_ | they do use pinyin based on romanized alphabet, but that's for our benefit |
| 19:55.58 | Bikerdan | True. But that's not all that's involved in governing a people. |
| 19:56.08 | SunSparc | Live and let live. And if anyone rises up to take control, throw them in the ocean. |
| 19:56.25 | mindjuju_ | just not my part of the ocean SunSparc |
| 19:56.30 | mindjuju_ | remember, bora bora is my safe zone |
| 19:56.42 | Bikerdan | SunSparc: But that's not a global government. Thats a lack of global government. |
| 19:56.45 | SunSparc | lol, ok, send them to Pluto. |
| 19:56.52 | Heartsbane | No one touch his safe zone |
| 19:57.36 | Bikerdan | mindjuju_: head over to Egypt and see if everyone has the same worries. |
| 19:57.47 | SunSparc | Yeah. I guess I mean if any leader proves selfish and has his own agenda, throw him out. |
| 19:58.09 | Bikerdan | I can't see a leader without his own agenda... |
| 19:59.00 | SunSparc | True, even God has his own agenda. I guess I do not know what I mean. |
| 19:59.27 | Bikerdan | I know what you mean. I just don't believe that it's realistic. |
| 19:59.57 | fungus | Bikerdan, but a leader who's agenda is not aligned w/ that of the people won't be elected, and it's only temporary. |
| 20:00.28 | fungus | and that said leader will be checked and balanced w/ other branches of gov't |
| 20:00.33 | Bikerdan | Unless that leader has enough power to put fear into the people such that they wouldn't rise up against them. |
| 20:00.50 | Bikerdan | In a constitutional republic... |
| 20:02.03 | fungus | global gov't does not mean a dictatorship. It can work like our own country. Weak federal powers, strong individual countries at first, until we can learn to come together better in the future. |
| 20:02.27 | Bikerdan | In an ideal world, yes. |
| 20:02.28 | eggyknap | The goal being a strong central government, once we all "lear to come together"? |
| 20:02.39 | Bikerdan | This is not an ideal world. |
| 20:02.47 | eggyknap | s/lear /learn / |
| 20:02.58 | fungus | I disagree. Any of you watch Star Trek? |
| 20:03.07 | fungus | It can work. |
| 20:03.13 | Bikerdan | In a TV show? |
| 20:03.52 | eggyknap | Only local governments are responsive. Local governments need to retain power sufficient to deal with those things which require responsiveness. |
| 20:04.05 | Bikerdan | fungus: At the smallest of units, even you and I cannot "come together". |
| 20:04.16 | fungus | Yes we can. |
| 20:04.19 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 20:04.27 | Bikerdan | Maybe for a veggie roll |
| 20:04.28 | eggyknap | Looks like it's working! :) |
| 20:04.41 | SunSparc | fungus: Yes, I keep hoping the Star Trek govenment will become a reality. |
| 20:04.53 | fungus | I know, right. |
| 20:05.05 | Bikerdan | eggyknap: I agree. |
| 20:05.05 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:05.24 | fungus | Work toward a United Earth, not just United States. |
| 20:05.25 | romanovic | I heard there was a class up at the U about studying society from a Star Trek perspective |
| 20:05.35 | fungus | romanovic, fun. |
| 20:05.37 | SunSparc | I am seeing a lot of Beatles lyrics in the things we are saying. |
| 20:06.11 | eggyknap | I'm not sure it matters if Earth is a "United Earth" nearly so much as it matters that Earth is a peaceful, sustainable Earth. I think a unified global government is an unnecessary hurdle in front of the real goal. |
| 20:06.24 | SunSparc | romanovic: There is a Minecraft server group who are recreating the entire known world of Middle Earth. |
| 20:06.41 | romanovic | nice! |
| 20:06.52 | SunSparc | ^ |
| 20:07.42 | SunSparc | United Federation of Planets |
| 20:07.51 | eggyknap | A major disadvantage of a large-scale government is a large-scale government must make laws that are decent for all its constituents. With diverse cultures, that's surprisingly difficult. |
| 20:07.55 | Bikerdan | A hippy vulcan. |
| 20:08.12 | eggyknap | Having recently moved to the middle of nowhere and learned firsthand about "rural" vs. "urban" culture, I can witness to this particularly. |
| 20:08.17 | Bikerdan | That's was my point exactly eggyknap. |
| 20:08.53 | SunSparc | local government should govern locally |
| 20:09.00 | *** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (~jason@76.8.222.23) |
| 20:09.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v PoeticIntensity] by ChanServ |
| 20:09.02 | mindjuju_ | k, i'm back. what did i miss |
| 20:09.10 | eggyknap | we're solving the world's problems, mindjuju_ |
| 20:09.10 | fungus | eggyknap, I agree. What I mean by global gov't was more about uniting the world, than about legislating the world. |
| 20:09.12 | SunSparc | Laws should be enforced on a case by case basis using best judgement. |
| 20:09.14 | PoeticIntensity | you almost missed this great question I'm about to ask. |
| 20:09.15 | mindjuju_ | influx - PoeticIntensity is here |
| 20:09.19 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 20:09.24 | eggyknap | fungus: So what does "uniting the world" mean, really? |
| 20:09.43 | SunSparc | PoeticIntensity: As long as it has nothing to do with PHP. ;) |
| 20:09.55 | PoeticIntensity | I'm gathering about as much, SunSparc ... |
| 20:10.00 | eggyknap | SunSparc: laws should be made by representatives of the people, and violations tried by juries of the people. Too bad we don't do that here anymore. |
| 20:10.00 | PoeticIntensity | as usual.. :) |
| 20:10.10 | fungus | eggyknap, similar to the USA in the beginning. a federation of States now becomes a Federation of countries. |
| 20:10.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:10.22 | PoeticIntensity | Sooooooooooooo....... |
| 20:10.24 | fungus | The UN is progress toward that goal. |
| 20:10.25 | SunSparc | eggyknap: I know, sad. |
| 20:10.28 | *** join/#uphpu skinner2 (~David@128.187.222.233) |
| 20:10.36 | PoeticIntensity | mod_rewrite question (amidst the usual politics)... |
| 20:10.47 | eggyknap | In the beginning, the USA's federal government had legislative ability -- it was just severely limited. So if it's like the USA, this global united government thing would also have legislative ability. |
| 20:11.03 | fungus | Exactly. but limited at first. |
| 20:11.05 | PoeticIntensity | I have a url.com/view/recipe/blahblah that I want to have changed to url.com/recipe/blahblah |
| 20:11.10 | eggyknap | One wonders what its point would be, though, because the main purpose of the original US federal government would be to handle interactions between countries... and if there was only one country... |
| 20:11.11 | PoeticIntensity | blahblah changes all the time, nothing else does... |
| 20:11.17 | SunSparc | fungus: I hear good and bad about the UN. And I do not have the time (unless I do not want to earn a living for my family) to know everything I need to know about the UN or any other political topic. |
| 20:11.37 | PoeticIntensity | I'm horrible at regex, too... Tried multiple times to really learn it, and have only half-way succeeded. |
| 20:11.45 | fungus | eggyknap, negotiation w/ other worlds. |
| 20:11.55 | fungus | eventually... |
| 20:12.08 | Bikerdan | Remember... Star Trek. |
| 20:12.09 | eggyknap | Fair enough. When you find another world that needs negotiating with, I'll worry more about a global government. |
| 20:12.54 | PoeticIntensity | anyone.... anyone....?? Beuller? Beuller? |
| 20:12.58 | Bikerdan | It's my understanding that when we encounter another world, we're all going to die anyway. Just like in War of the Worlds. |
| 20:13.07 | fungus | True, it took vulcans landing on earth to unite the Earth in ST |
| 20:13.27 | Bikerdan | So we should patiently wait. |
| 20:13.35 | Bikerdan | For the Vulcans. |
| 20:14.13 | eggyknap | I'm willing to forgo putting together a formal world government before ET shows up en masse. I realize that might mean we'd be caught with our pants down, if ET just shows up. I'm willing to take the risk, and divert resources I'd spend on that government to, say, fixing our own government :) |
| 20:14.29 | fungus | PI: RewriteRule /view/(.*) /$1 |
| 20:15.02 | SunSparc | PoeticIntensity: Something like: RewriteRule ^view/recipe/(.*)$ /recipe%{REQUEST_URI} |
| 20:15.08 | fungus | eggyknap, obviously. I never said do it now. That's the goal. |
| 20:15.19 | Bikerdan | eggyknap: If we're caught with our pants down, aren't we're more likely to be abducted? |
| 20:15.32 | PoeticIntensity | Thanks, SunSparc ... I'm thinking along the same lines... |
| 20:15.34 | fungus | Bikerdan, no, just massive anal probes. |
| 20:15.37 | eggyknap | Bikerdan: perhaps, but that will be a good sign we were having a good time 'til the last. |
| 20:15.44 | Bikerdan | :) |
| 20:15.52 | eggyknap | .oO(ouch) |
| 20:16.35 | eggyknap | ~lart eggyknap for making such an awful remark |
| 20:16.35 | ibot | executes killall -KILL eggyknap for making such an awful remark |
| 20:16.41 | eggyknap | much better. |
| 20:16.44 | SunSparc | I am not of the opinion that any aliens that deemed us worthy of a visit would be here to anything harmful. |
| 20:17.17 | eggyknap | And if they were, and we hadn't managed to discover them before they got here, could we do anything about it anyway? |
| 20:17.18 | Bikerdan | Unless they're here purely to sustain their dying race back on Hureeelblee |
| 20:17.30 | eggyknap | I went there once... |
| 20:17.50 | Bikerdan | Great place... |
| 20:17.56 | SunSparc | For the sushi? |
| 20:17.57 | eggyknap | Nice food. |
| 20:18.09 | Bikerdan | Great tacos. |
| 20:18.31 | mindjuju_ | talking about tacos, i heard the worst thing yesterday |
| 20:18.42 | mindjuju_ | guy i know put peanut butter and honey on a tortilla |
| 20:18.42 | Bikerdan | here goes... |
| 20:18.45 | eggyknap | Please tell me it had nothing to do with anyone's pants being down... |
| 20:18.48 | mindjuju_ | talk about a sin against nature |
| 20:19.00 | Bikerdan | Doesn't sound so bad. |
| 20:19.05 | mindjuju_ | oh man |
| 20:19.10 | mindjuju_ | that's sick and wrong |
| 20:19.12 | Bikerdan | Was it a flour or corn tortilla |
| 20:19.20 | mindjuju_ | i'd imagine flour |
| 20:19.24 | mindjuju_ | but i don't know |
| 20:19.45 | *** join/#uphpu captbrogers (~brian@128.187.200.142) |
| 20:20.49 | captbrogers | Anyway |
| 20:22.30 | SunSparc | mindjuju_: Do not knock it until you try it. ;) |
| 20:22.44 | captbrogers | Try a new government? |
| 20:23.10 | SunSparc | New government? You mean, burn down the current one and start over? |
| 20:23.15 | mindjuju_ | have you had it SunSparc? |
| 20:23.36 | Bikerdan | I've had peanut butter and honey on regular bread. |
| 20:23.43 | SunSparc | I have had PBJ on tortillas. Not bad. Just flat bread. |
| 20:23.45 | mindjuju_ | oh well sure, who hasn't |
| 20:23.55 | captbrogers | Peanut butter and honey is good |
| 20:23.55 | mindjuju_ | o.0 |
| 20:24.15 | SunSparc | mindjuju_: what are you grossed out about? |
| 20:24.38 | SunSparc | Flour tortilla is still "bread". :) |
| 20:25.03 | mindjuju_ | i don't know, it's like pickles on a pizza |
| 20:25.06 | mindjuju_ | it's major clash |
| 20:25.17 | Bikerdan | lol |
| 20:25.20 | mindjuju_ | why is polka dot shirt bad with plaid pants? |
| 20:25.34 | Bikerdan | Is it? |
| 20:25.43 | Bikerdan | Ah oh. |
| 20:25.47 | Bikerdan | I gotta run. |
| 20:27.19 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:27.42 | SunSparc | Pickles on pizza? Hmm... I have had pickled jalapenos on pizza. Quite tasty. |
| 20:28.15 | fungus | SunSparc, I read the rest of that article. Not such a bad idea, probably difficult in practice though. Except for that strange paragraph on abortion. That doesn't belong in there. Shouldn't Libertarians desire more liberty, fewer restriction, less laws. duh. |
| 20:28.16 | Benni_Hanna | Chocolate and bananas on pizza is where its at... |
| 20:28.40 | captbrogers | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:28.50 | SunSparc | fungus: yeah |
| 20:28.53 | Bikerdan | Who's Benni_Hanna? |
| 20:28.59 | Benni_Hanna | I am and why? |
| 20:29.05 | fungus | captbrogers, I'll buy him from ya |
| 20:29.15 | fungus | I need a minion. |
| 20:29.15 | SunSparc | Has Benni_Hanna been initiated? |
| 20:29.18 | captbrogers | Such talk is sacrilege |
| 20:29.41 | captbrogers | Bananas and chocolate do not belong on pizza |
| 20:29.46 | Benni_Hanna | go to Brazil man, everyone eats it |
| 20:29.47 | captbrogers | fungus: Make an offer |
| 20:29.51 | fungus | $5 |
| 20:29.56 | Benni_Hanna | ouch |
| 20:29.56 | Bikerdan | Maybe a desset pizza? |
| 20:30.00 | captbrogers | ...$5.25 |
| 20:30.03 | fungus | done |
| 20:30.37 | Benni_Hanna | apparently bootleg IRC slavery is still affective? |
| 20:30.37 | fungus | Woot, guess who's gonna be my new wire monkey? |
| 20:30.38 | captbrogers | Benni_Hanna: that would explain more about their idea to have the summer olympics during the winter |
| 20:31.05 | Benni_Hanna | lol there's a lot you don't know my friend |
| 20:31.06 | Bikerdan | lol |
| 20:32.32 | Benni_Hanna | I lived in a place called Cuiaba where it was 90 − 100 degree F all year except for 1 week. During that week it never got colder than 60 or 65 and at least 4 people /yr would die from the "cold" |
| 20:33.06 | fungus | sounds wonderful. |
| 20:33.07 | Benni_Hanna | mostly old ladies and such, but still |
| 20:33.13 | Benni_Hanna | they don't know what winter is |
| 20:34.14 | fungus | better start learning Portuguese first. |
| 20:34.35 | Benni_Hanna | might help |
| 20:34.49 | captbrogers | fungus: You think it's wonderful that 4 people a year would die? |
| 20:35.04 | Bikerdan | he doesn't like old ladies. |
| 20:35.19 | fungus | lol, maybe, but more wonderful that there is no real winter. |
| 20:35.42 | Bikerdan | Hawaii is like that, but they're usually in the 80's |
| 20:35.51 | Bikerdan | And you don't have to learn a new language. |
| 20:36.05 | captbrogers | I would love to live in Hawaii |
| 20:36.19 | Bikerdan | My in-laws live there. |
| 20:36.38 | captbrogers | My brother is trying to move to there from Japan |
| 20:36.58 | captbrogers | My wife and I are saving up to go there in a few years |
| 20:37.11 | Bikerdan | Vacation? |
| 20:37.15 | captbrogers | Yea |
| 20:37.21 | Bikerdan | Which island? |
| 20:37.51 | captbrogers | My dad was suggesting Hawaii |
| 20:38.01 | Bikerdan | The big island? |
| 20:38.02 | captbrogers | <facepalm> |
| 20:38.04 | captbrogers | Kona |
| 20:38.13 | captbrogers | Sorry, my brain is not braining today |
| 20:38.14 | Bikerdan | That's right... that's Hawaii. |
| 20:38.32 | Bikerdan | Kona is one of the cities. |
| 20:39.00 | Bikerdan | No need for the facepalm |
| 20:39.32 | captbrogers | Well, it felt necessary because I said Hawaii, then you ask which island and I just repeated Hawaii like an idiot |
| 20:39.42 | Bikerdan | But you were right. |
| 20:39.51 | Benni_Hanna | Hawaii isn't an island in Hawaii http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+are+the+hawaiian+islands |
| 20:39.54 | captbrogers | I probably should have asked fungus for another .25 for Benni_Hanna |
| 20:40.05 | fungus | hehe. |
| 20:40.10 | fungus | I got a smart one. |
| 20:40.13 | Benni_Hanna | ya. I'm valuable |
| 20:40.26 | Bikerdan | Yes it is. |
| 20:40.34 | Benni_Hanna | lol |
| 20:40.38 | Bikerdan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Islands |
| 20:40.44 | captbrogers | The biggest island is actually the island of Hawai'i |
| 20:40.50 | Bikerdan | Boo yahhhh |
| 20:41.06 | Benni_Hanna | noted |
| 20:41.16 | captbrogers | I was thinking of going to Kailua Kona or Hilo |
| 20:41.17 | fungus | which one did Larry Ellison buy? |
| 20:41.26 | Bikerdan | Hilo is nicer in my opinion |
| 20:41.35 | Bikerdan | But rainier |
| 20:41.48 | fungus | ah, He bought Lanai |
| 20:41.49 | Bikerdan | more rainy... |
| 20:41.50 | captbrogers | I mostly want to go somewhere that is out of the way |
| 20:42.08 | Bikerdan | Kona is the bigger of the two towns. |
| 20:42.19 | Bikerdan | It's the big tourist city on Hawaii |
| 20:42.33 | *** join/#uphpu supernovia (~Adium@208.64.91.46.static.utbb.net) |
| 20:42.34 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v supernovia] by ChanServ |
| 20:42.47 | captbrogers | I want to eat with locals, see things that are not really on the tourist maps, I really want to be in an extremely relaxing environment |
| 20:43.00 | Bikerdan | But it's really quite dry and deserty. |
| 20:43.22 | Bikerdan | The locals don't usually like to hang out with howlies. |
| 20:43.40 | captbrogers | I know they don't |
| 20:43.40 | Bikerdan | Haole |
| 20:44.16 | captbrogers | I understand that there is an undercurrent of feeling that almost every Hawaiian wants white people gone |
| 20:44.18 | captbrogers | I don't blame them |
| 20:44.34 | Bikerdan | They feel like they're invading and corrupting their culture. |
| 20:44.41 | Bikerdan | It's true. |
| 20:44.48 | captbrogers | I know, and to be honest I do see it |
| 20:45.06 | Benni_Hanna | Well, that won't stop me. I'm going in Oct |
| 20:45.18 | Bikerdan | Nice. |
| 20:45.40 | captbrogers | I studied Polynesian cultures in college, how each one is affected by colonization ships from Europe and America |
| 20:46.11 | captbrogers | Persecutions they have endured and how there are very very few "full" Polynesians left |
| 20:46.24 | Bikerdan | Cool |
| 20:46.38 | captbrogers | It was taught by a Maori guy, and he was very cool |
| 20:46.49 | Bikerdan | I know the little that I've learned about the Hawaiians has been really interesting. |
| 20:59.33 | captbrogers | Well, I hated to sound elitist but during one discussion we had in that class I asked my professor that given the strategic location of Hawaii and considering all the countries that were trying to occupy it, if it wasn't the U.S. to gain control would it have been another? |
| 21:00.27 | captbrogers | He agreed that odds are that given the circumstances, there really isn't much of a chance that Hawaii would ever have stayed a sovereign nation |
| 21:01.03 | captbrogers | So if not us, one among the Japanese, French, or British to name a few would have taken the islands |
| 21:02.00 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@104.2.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 21:07.30 | Bikerdan | Even with us having been the one to take it, there are likely more Japanese on the Island now than Caucasians. |
| 21:09.45 | captbrogers | I agree |
| 21:10.12 | captbrogers | But I think most of the anger is directed at the U.S. because of the businessmen who originally took the land |
| 21:26.30 | mahelious | i love how theres one html for microsoft, and one html for everyone else |
| 21:26.42 | mahelious | especially outlook... |
| 21:26.43 | captbrogers | mshtml |
| 21:26.58 | captbrogers | It's a lot like Access |
| 21:31.12 | mindjuju_ | last time i heard, outlook uses word as its html rendering engine |
| 21:31.15 | mindjuju_ | lulz |
| 21:36.58 | ninnypants | yep because they couldn't *buy* the ie rendering engine |
| 21:37.15 | *** join/#uphpu egami (~egami@me.egami.org) |
| 21:37.22 | egami | hello |
| 21:37.51 | captbrogers | Anyone have a good "go-to" script for inserting ~100 garbage entries to a database? |
| 21:37.58 | TuxToaster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIRBxRlsYR0&feature=youtu.be |
| 21:38.25 | captbrogers | TuxToaster: That wasn't what I was looking for |
| 21:38.36 | egami | would be simple to make one |
| 21:38.39 | TuxToaster | captbrogers: lol |
| 21:39.11 | captbrogers | egami: I know, I just can't find mine and I don't want to write a new one |
| 21:40.09 | egami | gotchya.. don't think there will be too many out there to dl. |
| 21:40.36 | egami | how many fields are in the table |
| 21:41.20 | captbrogers | 8 including the id field |
| 21:42.16 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@104.2.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 21:50.49 | egami | one sec.. |
| 21:50.55 | captbrogers | I already built one |
| 21:51.04 | egami | cool. |
| 21:51.08 | captbrogers | My brain is just being very unresponsive today |
| 21:51.15 | egami | join the club. |
| 21:51.17 | egami | :) |
| 21:52.24 | egami | I've resorted to watching Top Gear. |
| 21:55.46 | captbrogers | I'm just listening to an audiobook and wondering if I should go get some caffeine |
| 21:56.01 | mindjuju_ | you just need the right music |
| 21:56.41 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@104.2.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 21:56.59 | egami | quad shot coco mocha |
| 21:57.13 | egami | well, I wrote you a tiny sniplet.. |
| 21:57.27 | captbrogers | I was thinking of the dark bubbly liquid that serves me well |
| 21:57.44 | egami | you can use it to mod with any amount of fields, fieldtypes, etc. |
| 21:57.52 | captbrogers | Pastebin? |
| 21:58.36 | egami | what's pastebin? |
| 21:58.54 | captbrogers | ... |
| 21:59.01 | captbrogers | A website where you can temporarily paste code |
| 21:59.11 | egami | I suppose. |
| 21:59.18 | egami | orI could just give you a url to view the source |
| 21:59.24 | captbrogers | That could work |
| 22:00.07 | fungus | ~pastebin |
| 22:00.07 | ibot | A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few: http://www.pastebin.com, http://pastebin.ca, http://channels.debian.net/paste, http://paste.lisp.org, http://bin.cakephp.org/; or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude. |
| 22:00.44 | egami | http://box.egami.org/temp/index.phps |
| 22:01.15 | egami | just change the $a value to however many fields you want. |
| 22:02.06 | egami | and then obviously add your query when you're happy the results are what you want |
| 22:02.12 | captbrogers | Cool, thanks |
| 22:02.17 | egami | ya, np |
| 22:02.31 | egami | it's not perfect.. |
| 22:02.36 | egami | but for a 30 sec jaunt.. |
| 22:02.38 | egami | it'll work |
| 22:03.00 | egami | can add a few things.. instead of table have $table defined. |
| 22:03.16 | captbrogers | Is there a reason that mysql_real_escape_string() won't add a slash to a colon? |
| 22:03.17 | egami | and then $result = mysql_query($query); for the loop.. and add your sql include at the top |
| 22:03.20 | egami | should be all you need |
| 22:04.53 | egami | I got nothing on the colon thing. |
| 22:04.59 | egami | I usually stay away from colons. |
| 22:05.55 | egami | heh.. ok, bad joke. |
| 22:06.03 | egami | anyway, feirabend. ciao |
| 22:07.11 | *** join/#uphpu cro (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com) |
| 22:10.11 | *** part/#uphpu captbrogers (~brian@128.187.200.142) |
| 22:13.42 | influx | mindjuju_: woop |
| 22:14.26 | influx | PoeticIntensity: Do you have any advice on shopping around for studio foam? |
| 22:15.17 | influx | I'm drawing up plans for a vocal booth I want to build at home. |
| 22:17.07 | mgeary | anyone here use google for mail handling? Not "Gmail" per se, but Google Apps for Business ? |
| 22:17.52 | mindjuju_ | yes |
| 22:17.55 | influx | yes |
| 22:21.01 | mgeary | i'm trying to troubleshoot something for a buddy |
| 22:21.35 | mindjuju_ | k |
| 22:27.24 | mgeary | aha. i think i got it |
| 22:27.33 | mindjuju_ | whew! that was hard |
| 22:31.36 | mgeary | thanks so much |
| 22:55.05 | mindjuju_ | ~apb eggyknap |
| 22:55.05 | ibot | ACTION summons Beth to find eggyknap |
| 22:59.51 | skinner2 | Why does this work?: |
| 22:59.52 | skinner2 | <script src="//ajax.googleapis.com/... |
| 23:00.18 | mindjuju_ | ~gurusummon eggyknap |
| 23:02.10 | skinner2 | Anyone know? |
| 23:02.29 | mindjuju_ | defaults to http ? |
| 23:02.40 | mindjuju_ | is it cross browser? |
| 23:03.00 | eggyknap | mindjuju_: que? |
| 23:03.18 | mindjuju_ | hola, tengo una pregunta sobre mysql |
| 23:03.29 | peno | eggyknap: RUN |
| 23:03.31 | eggyknap | Answer: Kill it, quickly :) |
| 23:03.37 | mindjuju_ | yo se que no te gusta |
| 23:03.50 | eggyknap | As a side note, we did in another rooster yesterday. My kill shot was excellent. |
| 23:03.59 | mindjuju_ | way cool! |
| 23:04.05 | mindjuju_ | k, so my question is this |
| 23:04.16 | eggyknap | (we shoot 'em, because they're pretty wild, and it's less stressful all around to do the .22LR method) |
| 23:04.44 | mindjuju_ | i have a db that is in production and i want to regularly offload anything older than 6months to a different database |
| 23:04.58 | mindjuju_ | but when i google for it, i'm not finding a lot, i think i need some better keywords |
| 23:05.25 | eggyknap | it's hard. |
| 23:06.06 | mindjuju_ | yeah, that's what i'm finding |
| 23:06.18 | mindjuju_ | i was thinking of 1 ata time with PHP handling the logic |
| 23:06.19 | eggyknap | You've pretty much gotta do it yourself. |
| 23:06.23 | mindjuju_ | but i wondered if there was a better way |
| 23:06.32 | eggyknap | Certainly doing it yourself in SQL would be faster. |
| 23:06.38 | mindjuju_ | yup |
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| 23:11.24 | romanovic | skinner2: if i recall correctly, leaving out the protocol allows it to default to whatever protocol the current page is on |
| 23:13.04 | romanovic | so if you are on http, it gets the script over http. But if your current page is https, you also want all the page's assets fetched over https |
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| 23:52.29 | skinner2 | romanovic: thankyou |
| 23:52.34 | skinner2 | romanovic++ |
| 23:52.52 | skinner2 | ~romanovic |
| 23:53.01 | skinner2 | ~karma romanovic |
| 23:53.01 | ibot | romanovic has karma of 2 |
| 23:53.06 | skinner2 | romanovic++ |
| 23:53.12 | skinner2 | karma romanovic |
| 23:53.19 | skinner2 | ~karma romanovic |
| 23:53.19 | ibot | romanovic has karma of 2 |
| 23:53.33 | skinner2 | romanovic+ |
| 23:53.36 | skinner2 | ~karma romanovic |
| 23:53.36 | ibot | romanovic has karma of 2 |
| 23:53.39 | skinner2 | ? |
| 23:53.44 | skinner2 | +romanovic |
| 23:53.51 | skinner2 | ~karma romanovic |
| 23:53.51 | ibot | romanovic has karma of 2 |
| 23:53.54 | skinner2 | pfft |
| 23:56.43 | *** part/#uphpu skinner2 (~David@128.187.222.233) |