| 00:01.02 | fungus | Then make a plan to upgrade/discontinue the nasty old software that needs it. :) |
| 00:01.12 | mgeary | heh. i wish |
| 00:02.37 | mgeary | that seems to have done the trick. Thanks! |
| 00:03.38 | fungus | FYI, in future releases (including 12.04) they moved that package back to the the standard repo. |
| 00:03.57 | fungus | lucid was the only one that was bastardized. |
| 00:04.07 | mgeary | figures |
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| 03:40.11 | influx | http://www.prealfa.com/blog/post/agtzfnByZWFsZmF3c3ILCxIEUG9zdBjRDww |
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| 14:06.07 | hhatfield | $rlart |
| 14:06.08 | raifbot | wielding the mighty hammer of Thor, Mjölnir, I summon lighting to destroy ibot. |
| 14:06.11 | hhatfield | ~rlart |
| 14:06.11 | ibot | crushes ninnypants with a full height scsi disk |
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| 14:09.46 | ninnypants | $lart ibot |
| 14:09.46 | raifbot | wielding the mighty hammer of Thor, Mjölnir, I summon lighting to destroy ibot. |
| 14:11.47 | hhatfield | $lart ibot |
| 14:11.47 | raifbot | wielding the mighty hammer of Thor, Mjölnir, I summon lighting to destroy ibot. |
| 14:11.54 | hhatfield | hmm… seems stuck |
| 14:14.20 | captbrogers | Either that or raifbot is secretly Thor |
| 14:14.35 | hhatfield | $8ball are you Thor? |
| 14:14.35 | raifbot | hhatfield - Signs point to yes. |
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| 15:53.46 | mindjuju | sure is quiet, almost... to quiet |
| 15:53.48 | mindjuju | http://www.shakeout.org/utah/ |
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| 16:05.38 | influx | Huh? |
| 16:05.52 | mindjuju | 10 minutes to simulated earthquake |
| 16:06.06 | fridgesm | everybody hide under your simulated desk! |
| 16:06.18 | mindjuju | i'm hiding under my virtual machine |
| 16:06.22 | influx | ... |
| 16:06.44 | Monnok | lol |
| 16:10.25 | hhatfield | ~hide |
| 16:10.25 | ibot | ACTION runs away to shelter. |
| 16:10.40 | hhatfield | ~drop cover and hold on! |
| 16:11.25 | fungus | It's raining, I'm not going to simulate an earthquake in the rain. bull pucky |
| 16:11.55 | mindjuju | you don't have to run out in the rain, do you? |
| 16:12.02 | mindjuju | you have to find something sturdy and get underneath |
| 16:12.06 | hhatfield | it's a good thing earthquakes are usually courteous and only happen when it's convenient :) |
| 16:12.12 | fungus | exactly |
| 16:12.25 | fungus | mindjuju, you are supposed to go outside after the initial earthquake |
| 16:12.53 | mindjuju | oh |
| 16:13.00 | fungus | I guess a texan wouldn't know that. :) |
| 16:13.00 | mindjuju | btw, 2 minutes til earthquake |
| 16:13.41 | mindjuju | yeah, we don't have earthquakes in the motherland |
| 16:13.49 | josephscott | ~freeze simulated earthquake |
| 16:13.51 | mindjuju | tornados yes, earthquakes no |
| 16:13.57 | mindjuju | btw , 1 minute |
| 16:14.06 | josephscott | ~pause simulated earthquake |
| 16:14.14 | mindjuju | you didn't say sudo |
| 16:14.17 | mindjuju | you don't have rights |
| 16:14.22 | josephscott | :-) |
| 16:14.23 | fungus | we were trained since 5 |
| 16:14.30 | mindjuju | 30 |
| 16:14.46 | josephscott | I'm from California, we used to do the quake drills when I was a kid |
| 16:14.46 | mindjuju | 15 |
| 16:15.01 | mindjuju | earthquake |
| 16:15.09 | josephscott | $8ball would it be funny if a real quake happened at the same time as the virtual one? |
| 16:15.09 | raifbot | josephscott - Better not tell you now. |
| 16:15.12 | DexterTheDragon | HOOOOOOOLLLLY CRRRRRAAAAAAPPPP |
| 16:15.20 | DexterTheDragon | ~shake mindjuju |
| 16:15.20 | ibot | ACTION shakes mindjuju vigoriously and hangs them out to dry |
| 16:15.25 | mindjuju | i've got my music running and my virtual scooby snaks |
| 16:15.27 | mindjuju | i'm fine |
| 16:16.29 | DexterTheDragon | I stayed sitting in my chair. just like I would during a real earthquake |
| 16:18.20 | fungus | Lame, the earthquake took out my Gmail. |
| 16:19.06 | mindjuju | it's been out for like an hour already |
| 16:19.23 | fungus | I'd rather think it was the earthquake |
| 16:19.23 | mindjuju | or at least, i can't manage email accounts |
| 16:19.25 | fungus | more fun |
| 16:19.31 | mindjuju | :) |
| 16:20.22 | macnewbold | yay! drill |
| 16:20.33 | macnewbold | did everyone drop cover and hold on? |
| 16:21.18 | mindjuju | i hid under a VM |
| 16:21.53 | josephscott | $lart earthquake |
| 16:21.53 | raifbot | cuts off earthquake's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper. |
| 16:22.04 | josephscott | $mindtrick the earthquake |
| 16:22.04 | raifbot | (jedi hand wave) the earthquake you don't need to see his identification. |
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| 16:27.13 | mindjuju | New harry potter book revealed! Harry Potter now 40 is wondering if he should have married Hermonie after all! - http://www.cinemablend.com/pop/JK-Rowling-Casual-Vacancy-Plot-Synopsis-Revealed-Available-Pre-Order-41430.html |
| 16:28.03 | hhatfield | ~run away |
| 16:28.03 | ibot | ACTION runs away in Windows and gets an illegal page fault, then runs away in Linux and all the problems magically disappear. |
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| 16:35.09 | mgeary | morning, folks |
| 16:35.37 | mindjuju | how did the treeline group manage handle the earthquake? |
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| 16:36.30 | mgeary | heh |
| 16:36.41 | mgeary | we all died |
| 16:36.48 | mindjuju | sad! |
| 16:36.53 | mgeary | and my family is consoled by my huge life insurance policy |
| 16:37.20 | mindjuju | i talked to my boss, we're going to do it in a couple weeks http://www.shakeout.org/utah/ |
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| 16:51.45 | pashdown | i need a wordpress ninja stat |
| 16:52.06 | mindjuju | hi pete, josephscott, ninnypants |
| 16:52.21 | pashdown | are they here and available though? :-) |
| 16:52.29 | josephscott | pashdown: what's up? |
| 16:52.40 | pashdown | ill pm thanks joe |
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| 17:10.01 | DexterTheDragon | ~seen SunSparc |
| 17:10.02 | ibot | sunsparc <~jonathan@c-76-27-42-247.hsd1.ut.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 4d 23h 28m 18s ago, saying: 'herlo: lol'. |
| 17:11.33 | beandog | famous last words |
| 17:17.53 | mindjuju | they're actually bolted down |
| 17:17.58 | mindjuju | or up as it were |
| 17:20.03 | *** part/#uphpu pashdown (pashdown@sine.xmission.com) |
| 17:20.10 | Monnok | Chuck Norris could feel the Great Non-existent Utah Earthquake of 2012 |
| 17:25.57 | beandog | Chuck Norris stops, drops, and rolls YOU |
| 17:29.15 | jsmith | Monnok: So could my friends in Chile, unfortunately :-( |
| 17:29.42 | Monnok | they felt the one in Utah? odd |
| 17:33.05 | Monnok | ~rush_orders-- |
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| 18:03.51 | Utah_Dave | mysterious, pashdown and josephscott both left the room within minutes of eachother... |
| 18:04.13 | jsmith | Must be serious... |
| 18:05.25 | mahelious | ninnypants left around the same time, yet you comspicuously left him unmentioned. interesting. |
| 18:05.33 | mahelious | s/com/con |
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| 18:14.37 | beandog | the time to form aliiances has past! |
| 18:14.40 | beandog | passed |
| 18:14.41 | beandog | fail |
| 18:17.07 | mahelious | "is past"? |
| 18:17.39 | beandog | maybe I was right |
| 18:25.13 | macnewbold | ~pashdown++ |
| 18:41.14 | mahelious | so i finally got over to pirate-o's last weekend. was browsing the cheese aisle for some international rarities when I glanced at their soda rack. |
| 18:41.47 | mahelious | the next thing i know im checking out with a few dozen bottles of brain wash. can't explain it. curse you skeleteens! |
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| 18:44.22 | mindjuju | so josephscott, we've all been speculating on what happened |
| 18:44.30 | josephscott | ? |
| 18:44.37 | mindjuju | with the WP ninja request |
| 18:44.46 | jsmith | and your sudden departure from the channel |
| 18:44.52 | mindjuju | i put $5 that it had something to do with saving the world and you wearing some kind of tights |
| 18:44.57 | jsmith | We're all convinced there is a conspiracy |
| 18:45.07 | jsmith | mindjuju: My (virtual) money is on the cape |
| 18:45.09 | josephscott | I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you |
| 18:45.11 | mindjuju | and a cape |
| 18:45.19 | mindjuju | awesome |
| 18:45.21 | mindjuju | rofl |
| 18:45.38 | jsmith | Yup... that 'splains it... He's one of *them* |
| 18:46.03 | josephscott | ok, this was funny http://cheezburger.com/6120131328 |
| 18:46.15 | mindjuju | josephscott is the "he" that the "them" refer to as "him" |
| 18:46.18 | mgeary | i'm guessing Pete's mom had to get the Ward Newsletter online right away |
| 18:46.29 | clintberry | ha ha |
| 18:46.54 | josephscott | lets just say that I'll be wearing a black suit every day from now on ;-) |
| 18:47.17 | josephscott | in truth, much less exciting. |
| 18:47.44 | josephscott | the rewrite rules for his site http://peteashdown.org/ got messed up, everything but the front page was returning a 404 |
| 18:47.56 | mindjuju | ouch |
| 18:48.08 | mindjuju | isn't that the one he uses for senate ? |
| 18:48.18 | josephscott | yep |
| 18:48.25 | mindjuju | doubly ouch, poor devil |
| 18:48.27 | josephscott | fortunately only took a few minutes to figure out and fix |
| 18:48.37 | mindjuju | ~josephscott++ |
| 18:51.14 | josephscott | for those tired of pennies - http://josephscott.org/archives/2012/04/the-cost-of-a-penny/ |
| 18:54.19 | mindjuju | hey, josephscott, i forgot i had a q about your blog |
| 18:54.36 | mindjuju | your blog prior to this, you left it as was, right? you didn't import into this one? |
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| 18:56.14 | josephscott | the old one? |
| 18:56.20 | josephscott | yeah, it is still there |
| 18:56.36 | mindjuju | that's what i thought, i seem to recall mentioning that |
| 18:56.39 | josephscott | I could have imported it, just opted to leave it as is |
| 18:56.50 | mindjuju | you left the old one in tact and as is where is |
| 18:57.01 | mindjuju | k, that's all, just curious |
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| 19:08.38 | influx | What are a few of the more obvious reasons for setting a character maximum for something like a password field? |
| 19:08.41 | influx | clear |
| 19:09.29 | fungus | reasons for setting one, or reasons of setting it to a specific value? |
| 19:09.35 | influx | the former |
| 19:10.00 | fungus | Because it makes your database row fixed length. |
| 19:10.06 | DexterTheDragon | lies |
| 19:10.18 | DexterTheDragon | passwords should be hashed so they'd be fixed length anyway |
| 19:10.25 | influx | ;DDD |
| 19:10.41 | fungus | Right. so just set the password field to match your hash length |
| 19:10.44 | DexterTheDragon | setting a lemit on the input field is bad |
| 19:10.52 | DexterTheDragon | s/lemit/limit/ |
| 19:11.06 | fungus | Agreed |
| 19:11.14 | influx | It tips hax0rs off as to how many characters might be in a password, I take it. |
| 19:11.32 | fungus | Not only that but allows users to use really long passwords. |
| 19:13.03 | influx | Hmm. What's your opinion on having a character minimum? |
| 19:13.12 | influx | Like, say... a min of 1 |
| 19:13.23 | fungus | I would have a minimum of 6 |
| 19:13.28 | mindjuju | $8ball is fungus's password some variant of the name Lady Gaga? |
| 19:13.28 | raifbot | mindjuju - Yes - definitely. |
| 19:13.35 | mindjuju | o.0 |
| 19:13.36 | fungus | lol |
| 19:14.17 | mindjuju | well now, we all know why fungus went quiet, he's changing his passwords |
| 19:14.32 | mahelious | if the minimum password length is 6, i guarantee at least 5% of the population chooses the password "111111", and another 5% prefer "abcdef" |
| 19:14.40 | fungus | I have loads of different passwords. |
| 19:14.55 | influx | I ask because I was trying to get across to my partner my concern when he suggested that, but without sounding like some guy with a tin-foil hat. |
| 19:15.08 | mindjuju | ladyGag4_1, ladyGaga_2, ladyGagA_3 ? |
| 19:15.43 | fungus | mahelious, agreed, but depending on your app, password enforcement may turn away users. And that is usually bad. |
| 19:16.53 | fungus | mindjuju, don't forget song titles and/or lyrics |
| 19:16.54 | DexterTheDragon | qwerty is my 6 char password of choice |
| 19:17.01 | mahelious | ive walked away from apps/sites because of "we require 1 lowercase, 1 uppercase, 1 special character, 1 number, no dictionary and at least one chinese character" |
| 19:17.22 | influx | mahelious: That's too bad. |
| 19:17.25 | mindjuju | @fungus, i just know "poker face" |
| 19:17.36 | mindjuju | but don't take it personal, if it's not electronica, i don't know it |
| 19:18.09 | mahelious | but password length is fairly standard. and the security risk of a sufficiently short password probably outweighs the potential of anyone you lose. |
| 19:18.41 | fungus | yes, most users are accustomed to a 6 char min. IMHO |
| 19:19.00 | influx | fungus: That was my uninformed suggestion for a minimum the other day. |
| 19:19.10 | influx | Relatively uninformed anyway. |
| 19:19.19 | DexterTheDragon | and then you use bcrypt to offset brute force attacks |
| 19:19.45 | fungus | or PBDKF2 |
| 19:19.47 | josephscott | http://josephscott.org/archives/2012/04/slow-hashing/ |
| 19:19.53 | mahelious | was it in here that someone posted an article yesterday about password cracking? |
| 19:20.20 | influx | DexterTheDragon: Thanks. |
| 19:20.44 | mahelious | something about how modern gpus have made rainbow tables archaic, and for less than a couple grand you can crack any 8 character password in a day or less? |
| 19:21.02 | josePHPagoda | mahelious: that depends on the algo used |
| 19:21.15 | josephscott | that was this one - http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/04/speed-hashing.html |
| 19:21.23 | josephscott | which is why I wrote http://josephscott.org/archives/2012/04/slow-hashing/ :-) |
| 19:21.43 | josephscott | because if you are using MD5 as your password hash, you've basically already lost |
| 19:21.59 | mahelious | jospehscott: yes, exactly. |
| 19:22.26 | fungus | well, it depends on the sensitivity of the app/data. |
| 19:22.53 | fungus | You could use bcrypt with many rounds, each with individual salts stored in a separate location. |
| 19:22.53 | josePHPagoda | josephscott: i make decoys with md5 |
| 19:22.59 | josePHPagoda | then they crack the wrong one |
| 19:23.02 | josePHPagoda | :-P |
| 19:23.10 | josePHPagoda | ok, so I don't |
| 19:23.12 | josePHPagoda | but that'd be funny |
| 19:23.13 | fungus | But if the app means almost nothing, then a simple salted sha256 would be fine. |
| 19:23.53 | josephscott | using bcrypt is so painless though I don't know why you wouldn't use it |
| 19:24.10 | josePHPagoda | yeah |
| 19:24.56 | josephscott | for PHP, just use phpass |
| 19:25.11 | fungus | lol PHP ass |
| 19:25.18 | influx | Right now, that I can think of, the most sensitive thing that the app would be handling is user location and profile data. |
| 19:25.46 | fungus | location data is fairly sensitive. |
| 19:26.00 | fungus | Eg. See iPhone backup data fiasco |
| 19:26.29 | mahelious | so the developer side makes sense, but im afraid the client side suggestion always seems to get glossed over. we should be doing a lot more (read enforcing) to push passphrases on users. |
| 19:26.46 | influx | What do you mean? |
| 19:27.33 | mahelious | if an app is worth protecting at all, dont think min. chars of 6 or 12, but 20 or 30. |
| 19:27.47 | josePHPagoda | use full sentances |
| 19:27.51 | josePHPagoda | like |
| 19:27.58 | josePHPagoda | mypassphraseisreallylongandishardtoget1234 |
| 19:28.00 | fungus | mahelious, agreed, advocacy is good, but you have to balance business interests too. |
| 19:28.19 | mindjuju | i like passphrases |
| 19:28.32 | influx | Dang. Need to leave. Thanks for the info, y'all. :) |
| 19:28.40 | mindjuju | passphrases on iphones blow chunks though |
| 19:28.45 | fungus | how about "correct horse battery staple" |
| 19:30.14 | fungus | http://xkcd.com/936/ |
| 19:30.16 | jsmith | fungus: That's mine! |
| 19:30.22 | fungus | lol |
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| 19:45.35 | hhatfield | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.45 | mahelious | " looking at 6 million passwords, and found an insane 99.8% occur in the top 10,000 list" |
| 20:03.15 | mahelious | that doesnt seem all that insane. if anything, it's establishing that culture is real. |
| 20:51.10 | mgeary | mahelious: important bias note there, though |
| 20:51.44 | mahelious | very true |
| 20:52.24 | mgeary | reminds me of those idiot email threads about, "when we were kids, we ate dirt, and no one died. We stayed out from dawn to dusk, and no one was lost or kidnapped…" |
| 20:52.45 | mgeary | completely ignoring the fact that if they HAD died or been lost, they probably wouldn't be around to WRITE the stupid email |
| 20:52.45 | hhatfield | but it was true |
| 20:52.48 | mgeary | survivor bias |
| 20:53.11 | mgeary | it's still survivor bias. The ones who did die aren't around to draw attention to their absence |
| 20:57.13 | mahelious | i died from staying out from dawn to dusk, you insensitive clod! |
| 20:57.32 | hhatfield | ~spooky mahelious |
| 20:57.37 | hhatfield | ~spooky |
| 20:57.44 | hhatfield | ~really? |
| 20:57.44 | ibot | REALLY! |
| 20:58.10 | romanovic | $8ball is mahelious a disembodied spirit |
| 20:58.10 | raifbot | romanovic - My reply is no. |
| 20:59.17 | mahelious | shucks. beaten by a robot. that can't even pass the turing test. |
| 20:59.38 | hhatfield | all exaggerations are biased, aren't they? |
| 21:07.13 | josephscott | $8ball is that an exaggeration? |
| 21:07.13 | raifbot | josephscott - It is decidedly so. |
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| 22:03.55 | peno | eggyknap: you know you want that windows virus. :) |
| 22:06.21 | eggyknap | Not a chance. I occasionally have to use windows... and I still hate it. |
| 22:07.20 | peno | hah. at least you don't have to manage it. :) |
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