| 00:09.47 | *** join/#uphpu wps_ (~wps@208.53.57.58) |
| 00:09.47 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps_] by ChanServ |
| 00:15.55 | *** join/#uphpu marcupio (~marcupio@63-248-21-147.static.sdyl005.digis.net) |
| 03:10.58 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants1 (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 03:23.59 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants1 (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132) |
| 03:30.58 | *** join/#uphpu skinner (~David@c-67-186-245-117.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:30.59 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v skinner] by ChanServ |
| 03:31.06 | *** part/#uphpu skinner (~David@c-67-186-245-117.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:41.54 | *** join/#uphpu wps_ (~wps@208.53.57.58) |
| 03:41.54 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps_] by ChanServ |
| 04:04.53 | *** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@c-24-10-187-146.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:04.54 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v TuxToaster] by ChanServ |
| 06:03.38 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 06:03.39 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v ninnypants] by ChanServ |
| 07:58.50 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Adium@72.128.63.242) |
| 07:58.50 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 12:51.24 | *** join/#uphpu pelaofeliz (~pelaofeli@216.51.68.1) |
| 12:51.24 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v pelaofeliz] by ChanServ |
| 16:36.00 | *** join/#uphpu ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 16:36.00 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 16:36.00 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v ibot] by ChanServ |
| 16:49.48 | fungus | Still talking about the crazy upset by Meryl Streep in the last few minutes of the game. |
| 16:50.28 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Adium@74.51.216.34) |
| 16:50.28 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 16:51.30 | herlo | fungus: she won, it's over, life is good again |
| 16:52.08 | fungus | Did you catch that ludicrous display last night? |
| 16:52.41 | herlo | which one? |
| 16:54.15 | fungus | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJIQm9qH-w |
| 16:54.26 | fungus | But yeah, they were hilarious |
| 16:55.46 | herlo | heh |
| 16:56.35 | carmony | I just got a cold-call from a lady asking if we were hiring developers, and she was a developer in cobalt. |
| 16:57.02 | macnewbold | wow |
| 16:57.22 | macnewbold | she needs to call the gov't and military - they pay good money for people who known ancient languages |
| 16:57.31 | macnewbold | s/known/know/ |
| 16:57.44 | carmony | I wonder if Utah_Dave knows of any people looking for Colbalt |
| 17:01.18 | Utah_Dave | :) Nope! I wish I could hire another PHP dev right now, though |
| 17:01.26 | Utah_Dave | Also, is it Cobalt or Cobol? |
| 17:01.31 | john_anderson | the latter |
| 17:01.34 | carmony | Cobol |
| 17:03.19 | Utah_Dave | that's what I was thinking. The gov places that use Cobol have been around 30 or 40 years and still have those old apps running |
| 17:03.44 | Utah_Dave | And won't change to newer technology until their current software just up and dies. |
| 17:03.49 | Utah_Dave | We're not that old. |
| 17:04.33 | carmony | I just felt so bad, you could hear in her voice that she sounded like she was at a complete dead end in trying to find a job |
| 17:05.50 | Utah_Dave | yeah, I bet it's a tough market |
| 17:06.06 | carmony | apparently she got laid off at her old job |
| 17:11.56 | romanovic | my father was a cobol programmer for the state gov for a while |
| 17:12.17 | romanovic | but moved to java 10+ years ago |
| 17:16.36 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (~jonathan@c-76-27-42-247.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:16.36 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v SunSparc] by ChanServ |
| 17:16.57 | TuxToaster | romanovic: coffee coffee coffee! cappucino! java! |
| 17:17.00 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 17:17.27 | hhatfield | $wtf |
| 17:17.37 | hhatfield | ah well… it was worth a shot |
| 17:17.49 | hhatfield | ~roulette |
| 17:17.49 | ibot | ACTION watches hhatfield pull the trigger: Click! |
| 17:17.49 | TuxToaster | can't help but hear that every time I see something about Java |
| 17:18.50 | TuxToaster | hhatfield: it's off of Dante's Peak :-) |
| 17:19.02 | hhatfield | I think I remember forgetting that movie |
| 17:19.10 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 17:19.21 | TuxToaster | I don't remember much about it, aside from that quote |
| 17:19.29 | hhatfield | has anyone here been watching the Internals list over the past week? |
| 17:20.13 | hhatfield | someone mentioned enum's in php and that sparked a whole weak / strict typing uproar |
| 17:22.41 | *** join/#uphpu xtrementl (~xtrementl@neutroninteractive-xmission.xmission.com) |
| 17:22.42 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v xtrementl] by ChanServ |
| 17:25.59 | TuxToaster | why do people have to argue over that kind of stuff |
| 17:26.37 | hhatfield | it's a topic that comes up often and people have strong opinions about which way php should go |
| 17:27.08 | hhatfield | (or not go) |
| 17:28.16 | hhatfield | I don't know that I've seen anyone propose strict typing who's contributed a significant amount to core, so they usually end up getting beaten down for not understanding the scope of the change |
| 17:31.18 | TuxToaster | I can see that though, I'm used to those types of discussions being simply for the sake of opinion rather than discussing the direction the platform should go |
| 17:34.22 | josephscott | it isn't clear to me why someone would want to add ENUMs to PHP |
| 17:34.32 | josephscott | but then again I don't follow the PHP internals list :-) |
| 17:35.15 | josephscott | I'd still vote for python style function args and real multiple inheritance (traits is almost there I suppose) before worrying about things like ENUMs |
| 17:35.27 | jsmith | josephscott: You've got my vote... |
| 17:35.31 | jsmith | (as if I have a vote) |
| 17:35.39 | *** join/#uphpu captbrogers (~brian@128.187.216.32) |
| 17:35.40 | josephscott | haha, I don't have one either :-) |
| 17:36.20 | *** join/#uphpu skinner (~David@128.187.215.245) |
| 17:36.20 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v skinner] by ChanServ |
| 17:44.01 | hhatfield | josephscott: what cases have you run into where you needed multiple inheritance? |
| 17:45.28 | *** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (~jason@76.8.222.23) |
| 17:45.28 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v PoeticIntensity] by ChanServ |
| 17:47.30 | josephscott | MI would be useful anytime you want to use more than one parent class |
| 17:47.44 | josephscott | only allowing for single inheritance reduces code re-use oppertunities |
| 17:48.00 | josephscott | clearly we've survived without it, so hardly critical, but definitely useful |
| 17:48.14 | josephscott | and traits does get us some of the way there |
| 17:48.48 | josephscott | though just having MI back in the original PHP5 upheaval would have taken care of that |
| 17:51.27 | SunSparc | ~rlart |
| 17:51.27 | ibot | drops a truckload of VAXen on influx |
| 17:51.30 | TuxToaster | agreed. I've not ran into it a ton, but there have been a few times where it definitely would have been helpful |
| 17:51.35 | TuxToaster | $lart SunSparc |
| 17:51.36 | raifbot | tries to shut SunSparc up. |
| 17:51.54 | hhatfield | $8ball is that really possible? |
| 17:51.55 | raifbot | hhatfield - Outlook not so good. |
| 17:51.55 | SunSparc | keep trying raifbot |
| 17:52.02 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 17:52.05 | SunSparc | lol |
| 17:58.23 | josephscott | ~lolstats |
| 17:58.23 | ibot | total count of lol on #uphpu: 3561. Top 3: TuxToaster -- 543 (15.2%), carmony -- 485 (13.6%), SunSparc -- 442 (12.4%) |
| 17:59.26 | SunSparc | TuxToaster is taking the lol stats by storm. |
| 17:59.31 | josephscott | the lols must flow |
| 17:59.53 | josephscott | $8ball is SunSparc jealous of TuxToaster amazing lolstats? |
| 17:59.53 | raifbot | josephscott - Yes - definitely. |
| 17:59.58 | josephscott | :-) |
| 18:00.25 | hhatfield | lol |
| 18:00.34 | hhatfield | I'm on my way to the top |
| 18:01.19 | josephscott | $8ball will hhatfield ever be king of the lols? |
| 18:01.20 | raifbot | josephscott - Yes. |
| 18:01.51 | hhatfield | great… he just outed my plan to write a bot to lol everything |
| 18:02.16 | hhatfield | now i can lol no more, forever |
| 18:04.11 | josephscott | me thinks he doth lol too much |
| 18:17.09 | captbrogers | Hey guys, who has two thumbs and no debt?! This guy! |
| 18:17.23 | hhatfield | w00t! |
| 18:18.00 | mindjuju_ | lando from robot chicken ? |
| 18:22.25 | clintberry | captbrogers: Nice! I want to be there so bad |
| 18:22.49 | josephscott | give me another 20 years, I'll have the houses paid off (I hope) |
| 18:22.59 | TuxToaster | :-) |
| 18:26.41 | captbrogers | It's so nice, no car payments, no student debt, no credit cards. |
| 18:26.54 | captbrogers | Now it's on to buying a house, and we're about half way to our down payment |
| 18:33.52 | mgeary | hey, anyone here worked with custom fields in WordPress? |
| 18:36.45 | clintberry | mgeary: yes |
| 18:37.12 | clintberry | Although lately I have been using a great plugin called Advanced Custom Fields. It is awesome |
| 18:45.52 | mgeary | clintberry: are they really fields in the db? If i were to write some custom code, can i easily get the fields for a given post? |
| 18:46.08 | clintberry | They are indeed really fields in the db |
| 18:46.14 | clintberry | mgeary: ^ |
| 18:46.22 | mgeary | ok, cool |
| 18:46.40 | clintberry | In your code you can use the special function get_field('my-field'); |
| 18:46.59 | mgeary | well, this would be non-WP code |
| 18:47.13 | mgeary | so i'd just hit the database directly |
| 18:47.34 | clintberry | Oh, you can do that as well. It is custom meta just like standard wordpress custom fields |
| 18:57.17 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (~macnewbol@76.8.223.101) |
| 18:57.17 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 18:57.48 | josephscott | mgeary: just beware if there is any caching on the WP side, modifying the DB outside of regular WP functions would make the cache inconsistent |
| 19:08.54 | carmony | $lart josephscott and his lolstats obsession |
| 19:08.54 | raifbot | cuts off josephscott and his lolstats obsession's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper. |
| 19:09.23 | josephscott | $lart carmony for being jealous that he is only in second for lolstats |
| 19:09.24 | raifbot | DoSes carmony for being jealous that he is only in second for lolstats. |
| 19:17.20 | beandog | heh |
| 19:17.26 | beandog | good on ya |
| 19:17.29 | mgeary | josephscott: good point, though currently it's anticipated to be r/o |
| 19:33.06 | *** join/#uphpu mahelious (~mahelious@ip65-46-59-10.z59-46-65.customer.algx.net) |
| 19:33.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mahelious] by ChanServ |
| 19:43.34 | josephscott | $chuck-fact |
| 19:43.34 | raifbot | Chuck Norris once broke the land speed record on a bicycle that was missing its chain and the back tire. |
| 19:56.34 | skinner | $beargrylls-fact |
| 19:56.41 | skinner | It is a known fact that Bear Grylls once broke his back during a parachute accident while in the British Special Forces. Lesser known is the fact that he built a makeshift hospital in the wilderness and performed back surgery on himself using only a knife, a flint, and a water bottle. |
| 20:00.38 | mindjuju_ | $beargrylls-fact |
| 20:00.54 | mindjuju_ | 02$beargrylls-fact01 |
| 20:06.52 | stderr-_ | Bear Grylls is a chump |
| 20:10.06 | mindjuju_ | for some reason i thought you like him stderr-_ |
| 20:10.19 | mindjuju_ | maybe like a year ago? or was it another survivalist ? |
| 20:11.33 | stderr-_ | I've never liked Bear Grylls. You're thinking of Les Stroud. |
| 20:11.46 | mindjuju_ | ah |
| 20:21.04 | *** join/#uphpu wps_ (~wps@wfw.vivint.com) |
| 20:21.04 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps_] by ChanServ |
| 20:35.15 | mindjuju_ | so stderr-, was 02Les Stroud01 the guy you were saying sets up his own camera, etc so he winds up doing everything twice? |
| 20:38.33 | carmony | anyone here ever try out phpStorm? |
| 20:41.06 | clintberry | My buddy sitting in the cubical next to me uses it and loves it |
| 20:41.08 | josephscott | carmony: I tried it a bit |
| 20:41.36 | carmony | I've been trying it out |
| 20:41.42 | carmony | starting to like it more than NetBeans |
| 20:41.46 | josephscott | still Java hungry app, but seems less painful that netbeans, etc. |
| 20:41.52 | carmony | yeah |
| 20:44.34 | josephscott | I'm not a fan of having to buy a license every year though to get updates :-( |
| 20:49.19 | *** join/#uphpu opapo (~quassel@205.118.116.101) |
| 21:03.33 | *** join/#uphpu cro (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:05.43 | hhatfield | ~rlart |
| 21:05.43 | ibot | strangles DexterTheDragon with a doohicky mouse cord |
| 21:24.20 | *** join/#uphpu Monnok (~monnok@205.204.33.82) |
| 21:24.20 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v Monnok] by ChanServ |
| 21:27.50 | *** part/#uphpu cro (~Adium@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:39.33 | TuxToaster | $rlart |
| 21:39.33 | raifbot | beats opapo into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy. |
| 21:40.07 | opapo | What did I do? |
| 21:40.28 | TuxToaster | opapo: nothing, it's random :-) |
| 21:41.07 | opapo | oh. I can take a random beating |
| 21:41.15 | opapo | How do you defend against that? |
| 21:41.40 | josephscott | $save opapo |
| 21:41.40 | raifbot | runs into a burning building and saves opapo from certain death. Is that enough? |
| 21:41.57 | opapo | thanks josephscott |
| 21:42.44 | TuxToaster | lol. |
| 21:42.57 | TuxToaster | ~blame josephscott |
| 21:42.58 | ibot | ACTION blames josephscott (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 21:50.03 | hhatfield | ~save Canadia |
| 21:50.03 | ibot | ACTION runs into a burning building and saves Canadia from certain death. Is that enough? |
| 21:50.19 | hhatfield | $8ball Is that enough? |
| 21:50.20 | raifbot | hhatfield - Outlook good. |
| 21:51.01 | TuxToaster | $8ball is Outlook really that good? |
| 21:51.01 | raifbot | TuxToaster - It is decidedly so. |
| 21:51.14 | TuxToaster | $8ball you're a M$ fan, aren't you? |
| 21:51.15 | raifbot | TuxToaster - As I see it, yes. |
| 21:51.33 | hhatfield | $8ball but you're willing to try out other OS's? |
| 21:51.34 | raifbot | hhatfield - Yes. |
| 21:52.43 | TuxToaster | $8ball is that so you'd steal ideas from the other OS's and give them back to Microsoft? |
| 21:52.44 | raifbot | TuxToaster - As I see it, yes. |
| 21:53.05 | hhatfield | ~lart raifbot |
| 21:53.05 | ibot | runs at raifbot with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut |
| 21:53.07 | TuxToaster | lots of affirmitive answers here |
| 21:53.17 | hhatfield | $8ball did you like that? |
| 21:53.18 | raifbot | hhatfield - As I see it, yes. |
| 21:53.20 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:53.29 | TuxToaster | $8ball do you like Macs? |
| 21:53.30 | raifbot | TuxToaster - Cannot predict now. |
| 21:53.34 | hhatfield | $8ball are you clippy in disquise? |
| 21:53.34 | raifbot | hhatfield - Very doubtful. |
| 21:53.42 | hhatfield | $8ball Bob? |
| 21:53.43 | raifbot | hhatfield - My reply is no. |
| 21:54.00 | hhatfield | $8ball Can I trust you? |
| 21:54.00 | raifbot | hhatfield - Ask again later. |
| 21:54.19 | TuxToaster | $8ball I see that you answered a question. Do you want Clippy to annoy you for the next two hours with unhelpful hints? |
| 21:54.19 | raifbot | TuxToaster - Outlook not so good. |
| 21:54.32 | TuxToaster | finally, you're on to something. |
| 21:59.33 | hhatfield | wps: that's what it's all about |
| 22:05.41 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:09.40 | fungus | http://i.imgur.com/h1EQn.gif |
| 22:14.44 | fungus | WTF? php -r "var_dump('php' == 0);" |
| 22:15.13 | *** join/#uphpu wps_ (~wps@inferno.apxalarm.com) |
| 22:15.13 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps_] by ChanServ |
| 22:16.12 | josephscott | what is wrong with that |
| 22:18.02 | fungus | That should not be true |
| 22:18.05 | fungus | should be false |
| 22:20.13 | josephscott | where would the fun be in that? ;-) |
| 22:20.47 | fungus | lol, you have a point, since when was sanity fun? |
| 22:21.40 | DexterTheDragon | perl -e 'if ('foo' == 'bar') { print "true" };' |
| 22:21.55 | hhatfield | it converts it to an int |
| 22:22.00 | hhatfield | throw another = in there |
| 22:22.17 | josephscott | yep, the string gets converted to a int |
| 22:22.23 | josephscott | which ends up being zero |
| 22:22.32 | josephscott | so zero ends up equaling zero |
| 22:22.37 | fungus | that's wrong. |
| 22:22.47 | josephscott | I agree that isn't the most obvious thing in the world though |
| 22:22.56 | fungus | should convert 0 to '0' |
| 22:23.03 | fungus | that would make more sense |
| 22:23.30 | josephscott | yeah, I think most people would expect it to cast based on the left hand side |
| 22:24.23 | fungus | DexterTheDragon, that sucks too |
| 22:24.38 | DexterTheDragon | fungus: the perl one drove me mad |
| 22:24.49 | hhatfield | http://php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php |
| 22:24.51 | macnewbold | yeah, weird stuff |
| 22:25.07 | macnewbold | "php" as boolean is true, and 0 as boolean is false, but it compares them as ints apparently |
| 22:25.11 | hhatfield | look for Converting to string and the section following that |
| 22:25.36 | macnewbold | php -r 'var_dump((bool)"PHP"==0);' |
| 22:25.36 | macnewbold | bool(false) |
| 22:26.00 | fungus | that one makes sense. |
| 22:26.12 | fungus | err. no |
| 22:26.17 | fungus | err, yes |
| 22:26.30 | fungus | (bool)"PHP" = TRUE |
| 22:26.45 | fungus | TRUE ==0 = FALSE |
| 22:26.49 | fungus | Sanity retained |
| 22:27.58 | josephscott | yep, the "String conversion to numbers" section on http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php#language.types.string.parsing.simple |
| 22:28.10 | josephscott | http://php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php |
| 22:28.42 | josephscott | "The value is given by the initial portion of the string. If the string starts with valid numeric data, this will be the value used. Otherwise, the value will be 0 (zero)." |
| 22:28.47 | fungus | but a comparison operator is not used in a numberic context. |
| 22:28.57 | fungus | s/numb/num/ |
| 22:29.17 | josephscott | I'd still consider it strange though |
| 22:29.27 | josephscott | == is a comparison operator |
| 22:29.27 | fungus | It's not just strange, it's wrong. |
| 22:29.31 | fungus | exactly |
| 22:29.38 | fungus | not a numeric context |
| 22:29.47 | josephscott | so 'php' == 0 is a numeric context |
| 22:29.52 | fungus | 'php' + 13 = 13 makes sense |
| 22:30.06 | fungus | == should not be considered a numeric context |
| 22:30.07 | hhatfield | comparing a number to something is what makes it numeric |
| 22:30.13 | josephscott | not if you were writing ruby :-) |
| 22:30.50 | TuxToaster | WAT. |
| 22:31.28 | josephscott | and if you were writing Javascript the + is a string concat, which is really strange too |
| 22:32.15 | hhatfield | https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
| 22:33.04 | josephscott | that is a fun one |
| 22:33.20 | fungus | Yes there are a lot of SNAFUs in many languages. |
| 22:34.10 | fungus | Python behaves best in most type juggling issues. |
| 22:34.23 | hhatfield | I have to watch it every time I send it to someone |
| 22:35.15 | josephscott | fungus: unless you are doing file I/O |
| 22:35.39 | clintberry | carmony: I know I already said thank you, but thank you for introducing me to Vagrant. Oh man, it has made life so much cooler |
| 22:35.41 | josephscott | in which case they decided to make the default file encoding system dependent |
| 22:35.42 | fungus | type juggling in file I/O? |
| 22:36.09 | josephscott | string encoding, so pretty close :-) |
| 22:36.17 | carmony | clintberry: haha, no problem :P |
| 22:36.17 | fungus | oh, that. Yeah, but they got the type juggling down. |
| 22:36.53 | fungus | If it's non-obvious, toss exception (bad programmer) |
| 22:40.20 | josephscott | to your point though, any sufficient large thing has quirks |
| 22:40.27 | josephscott | some more or worse than others |
| 22:41.12 | fungus | Right, but something as common as data types should be a non-issue by now. |
| 22:41.54 | hhatfield | unless you're in a weakly typed language :) |
| 22:42.28 | fungus | Not true, the problem should still not exist. There should be no problem. |
| 22:42.46 | *** join/#uphpu nickdc (~NCrandall@128.187.214.42) |
| 22:43.16 | fungus | to me, it's akin to putting square wheels on a car. |
| 22:44.11 | TuxToaster | *thunk* *thunk* *thunk* *thunk* |
| 22:44.23 | josephscott | for those who write a fair bit of PHP code, how many times have you run into that issue though? |
| 22:44.26 | TuxToaster | kind of reminds me of driving on Bangerter. |
| 22:44.27 | fungus | A programmers effort should go into his own ideas. not memorizing the type juggling quirks of his language. |
| 22:45.30 | fungus | josephscott, you have a point. A good programmer won't let these problems show up at all. |
| 22:45.48 | josephscott | there are bigger fish I'd like to fry in PHP |
| 22:45.54 | fungus | lol, true. |
| 22:45.59 | jtsnow | At least that quirk is documented. I've run into other quirks that aren't |
| 22:46.03 | josephscott | I agree it isn't what I would have done, but isn't something I worry about every day |
| 22:46.22 | hhatfield | ~lart quirks |
| 22:46.22 | ibot | eats quirks and falls over dead |
| 22:46.30 | josephscott | I want python style function arguments in PHP |
| 22:46.32 | hhatfield | $save quirksmode |
| 22:46.32 | raifbot | runs into a burning building and saves quirksmode from certain death. Is that enough? |
| 22:46.36 | TuxToaster | ibot is in quirksmode |
| 22:46.39 | TuxToaster | hah |
| 22:46.40 | josephscott | that I think about every day |
| 22:46.50 | josephscott | every time I write or use a function |
| 22:47.00 | fungus | lol, agreed wholeheartedly |
| 22:47.27 | josephscott | I think python pretty much nailed it for that language feature |
| 22:48.00 | TuxToaster | yup. |
| 22:48.05 | xtrementl | agree with you joseph on the named arguments |
| 22:48.07 | TuxToaster | that's one of the things I did like with Lasso as well |
| 22:48.13 | xtrementl | but there have been many arguments in the core about adding those |
| 22:48.38 | TuxToaster | though you had to do function(--arg1: 'test', --arg2: 'test2'); |
| 22:48.41 | fungus | ruby has that magic too, looks cleaner, but is more magic black box feeling. |
| 22:48.43 | TuxToaster | but still is very handy |
| 22:48.55 | *** join/#uphpu xtrementl (~xtrementl@neutroninteractive-xmission.xmission.com) |
| 22:48.55 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v xtrementl] by ChanServ |
| 22:50.33 | fungus | EHLO, MAIL FROM:, RCPT TO:, DATA, QUIT |
| 22:51.14 | hhatfield | you forgot the . between DATA and QUIT |
| 22:51.19 | fungus | I don't need no stinking mail client |
| 22:51.22 | fungus | :) |
| 22:51.23 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:55.16 | macnewbold | Re: named arguments to functions - I often end up passing in an array of key value pairs to my function, then you can optionally array_merge it with a set of default values, and you end up with the same effect with 1-2 extra lines of code. |
| 22:56.37 | fungus | that is an awesome workaround to the glaring omission in the language itself. |
| 23:00.49 | xtrementl | it's a horrible workaround.. see Cake's orm.. in combination with behaviors |
| 23:00.49 | clintberry | fungus: I don't know Python, but I understand named parameters a little bit. The idea is that you could pass arguments in any order, correct? |
| 23:01.32 | fungus | pretty much, yeah |
| 23:01.45 | josephscott | and optionally without a name, in the right order |
| 23:01.55 | clintberry | does that mean whenever you call a function you are required to put the name so it knows what variable to assign it to? |
| 23:02.00 | fungus | Imagine a function with 20 params, but you only want to pass the 19th param. the rest default |
| 23:02.01 | clintberry | josephscott: thanks :-) |
| 23:02.05 | josephscott | macnewbold: I've used that work around as well, it is a poor alternative to put it nicely |
| 23:02.21 | xtrementl | makes something like this pretty: method(a, b, c, other_param=something) |
| 23:02.27 | fungus | in PHP it's hellacious |
| 23:02.33 | xtrementl | other param doesn't need to be 4th arg |
| 23:02.35 | fungus | with named params it's cake |
| 23:02.38 | clintberry | Very cool |
| 23:02.39 | xtrementl | could be 9th one down |
| 23:02.56 | xtrementl | granted if you have a ton of params.. could indicate code smell :) |
| 23:02.57 | xtrementl | but yeah |
| 23:03.01 | clintberry | And there is resistance to adding that in PHP? Or is it just difficult with the current core base |
| 23:03.19 | clintberry | xtrementl: Right now if I run code through code sniffer, it will complain if there are more than 9 arguments |
| 23:03.27 | xtrementl | as it should :) |
| 23:03.42 | clintberry | but I still see the value of named parameters. Very cool stuff |
| 23:04.49 | xtrementl | should look at the arg and keyword expansion support |
| 23:05.07 | clintberry | Does anyone know if Ruby supports named params? |
| 23:05.21 | xtrementl | i think they generally use symbols for keys |
| 23:05.59 | xtrementl | something like symbols being more memory efficient .. since they're shared but rails has made the convention popular. |
| 23:06.48 | *** part/#uphpu captbrogers (~brian@128.187.216.32) |
| 23:07.10 | DexterTheDragon | ruby doesn't support named params but they fake it using hashes |
| 23:07.49 | xtrementl | something like method(:name = blah , :other_name = sup) ? |
| 23:07.57 | xtrementl | with the { } missing |
| 23:08.19 | DexterTheDragon | looks basically like method(a, :name => blah, :other_name => sup) |
| 23:08.31 | xtrementl | so it really just has two args? |
| 23:08.36 | DexterTheDragon | yeah |
| 23:08.45 | DexterTheDragon | def method(a, options) |
| 23:09.31 | clintberry | DexterTheDragon: but that is transparent to the dev or no? Meaning do you access :name via the options param? |
| 23:09.39 | DexterTheDragon | ruby 1.9 has json style hashes so you can do method(a, {name: blah, other_name: sup}) |
| 23:09.58 | DexterTheDragon | clintberry: yeah it would be options[:name] in the method |
| 23:10.03 | clintberry | okay cool |
| 23:10.12 | *** part/#uphpu skinner (~David@128.187.215.245) |
| 23:10.26 | xtrementl | python handles mapping to actual vars.. but same could be setup like this: def method(a, **options) |
| 23:14.16 | clintberry | Well, thanks a lot guys. Now when I am dealing with arguments in PHP I will always wish it was better ;-) |
| 23:14.36 | mgeary | get used to that feeling |
| 23:14.39 | clintberry | ha ha |
| 23:14.57 | clintberry | I should start using lol so I can work my way up the rankins... |
| 23:14.59 | clintberry | lol |
| 23:24.11 | clintberry | interesting workaround for named params in PHP, if you want to extend every class in your project with it :-) - http://blog.perplexedlabs.com/2009/04/22/php-named-parameters/ |
| 23:25.12 | clintberry | and change all your function call syntaxes... ha ha |
| 23:25.46 | josephscott | yuck |
| 23:26.25 | clintberry | ha ha |
| 23:26.29 | xtrementl | I'd love to have to explain that to everyone down the line supporting the code using it |
| 23:26.32 | xtrementl | wtf is this stuff? |
| 23:26.36 | xtrementl | looks like eval |
| 23:26.53 | clintberry | hey now, don't compare it to eval. That's overboard ;-) |
| 23:27.17 | xtrementl | lol |
| 23:30.12 | mindjuju_ | hey fungus, you around? |
| 23:30.26 | fungus | yup |
| 23:31.26 | mindjuju_ | i want to see how far i get, i made a clone using clonezilla (of a winders server) and I'm thinking of transfering it to a VM ala (put clonezilla img on 2nd partition of VM, have VM boot off clonezilla iso and read image from 2nd partition and restore to first |
| 23:31.28 | mindjuju_ | what you think? |
| 23:33.35 | mindjuju_ | i'm sure because it's goofy winders, i'm going to have a SERIOUs bit of trouble with driver confusion, but i'm thinking it might work |
| 23:33.48 | mindjuju_ | too bad it's not linux, i hear that process using that method is cakewalk |
| 23:41.31 | fungus | oh hai, (returning from squirrel chase) |
| 23:41.48 | fungus | mindjuju_, Yes, linux cloning is much easier. |
| 23:42.00 | fungus | Your method may work, but could be painful. |
| 23:42.11 | fungus | Can you use VMware Converter? |
| 23:43.14 | mindjuju_ | i'll look for that |
| 23:43.19 | mindjuju_ | can i do that after the image is created? |
| 23:43.36 | fungus | depends on the image type |
| 23:44.13 | fungus | but it can convert Physical server to Virtual quite easily. |
| 23:44.28 | mindjuju_ | hmm, i t says third party system images |
| 23:44.32 | mindjuju_ | that could work |
| 23:45.32 | mindjuju_ | awesome fungus! i'll try that first |
| 23:53.19 | mgeary | so, herlo |
| 23:53.36 | mgeary | we should get another ski trip on the books! |
| 23:53.46 | nickdc | recieved this from past manager. Enjoy http://www.addedbytes.com/blog/if-php-were-british/ |
| 23:55.58 | wps_ | that's awesome |
| 23:56.17 | xtrementl | pretty funny |
| 23:57.45 | nickdc | cheerio |
