| 00:03.50 | *** join/#uphpu _clint_ (~Adium@c-67-177-57-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:33.06 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@2001:470:1f0f:94a::1:2) |
| 00:47.30 | *** join/#uphpu jtsnow (~jtsnow@75-169-60-127.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 01:12.10 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 01:36.19 | *** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@c-24-10-187-146.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.00 | *** join/#uphpu _clint_ (~Adium@c-67-177-57-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.53 | ninnypants | $chuck-fact |
| 02:30.53 | raifbot | Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits. |
| 03:27.12 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants1 (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 07:49.31 | *** join/#uphpu jnbek (~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek) |
| 07:49.31 | *** join/#uphpu albino (~albino@69.12.222.214) |
| 07:51.29 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 07:51.29 | *** join/#uphpu utahcon_ (~utahcon@li51-147.members.linode.com) |
| 07:51.29 | *** join/#uphpu optikal_ (optikal@failcore.com) |
| 07:51.30 | *** join/#uphpu ender (~ender@c-98-202-87-28.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:51.30 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith-away (~jsmith@fedora/jsmith) |
| 07:51.30 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (~clints@fedora/herlo) |
| 07:51.30 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+vv jsmith-away herlo] by niven.freenode.net |
| 07:52.02 | *** join/#uphpu stderr-_ (~stderr@truedat.org) |
| 07:52.02 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (~bmitchell@216.211.175.4) |
| 07:52.02 | *** join/#uphpu Heartsbane (~heartsban@unaffiliated/heartsbane) |
| 07:52.02 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+vv bradym Heartsbane] by niven.freenode.net |
| 07:52.20 | *** join/#uphpu influx (~influx@deadink.org) |
| 07:52.20 | *** join/#uphpu romanovic-afk (~romanovic@puritynine.com) |
| 07:52.44 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@2001:470:1f0f:94a::1:2) |
| 07:54.32 | *** join/#uphpu _clint_ (~Adium@c-67-177-57-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:54.32 | *** join/#uphpu raifbot (~raifbot@ec2-184-73-163-211.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 12:06.09 | *** join/#uphpu jtsnow (~jtsnow@75-169-60-127.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 12:30.02 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@184-11-47-23.dr01.dlta.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 12:30.02 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 12:30.02 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ |
| 13:25.58 | *** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@c-24-10-187-146.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:49.56 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 14:01.06 | *** join/#uphpu bhosie (~bhosie@208.97.53.253) |
| 14:05.26 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v tierra] by ChanServ |
| 14:18.54 | *** join/#uphpu Monnok (~monnok@c-71-195-231-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:28.08 | *** join/#uphpu influx (~influx@deadink.org) |
| 14:32.12 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:32.12 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 14:32.16 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@104.2.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 14:32.16 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v josephscott] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.01 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (~Adium@76.8.223.101) |
| 14:36.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 14:48.55 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@66.233.220.188) |
| 14:48.55 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 14:49.14 | mindjuju | hi mgeary, when you have a moment, i have a question |
| 14:49.20 | mgeary | hey mindjuju |
| 14:49.22 | mgeary | sure |
| 14:49.54 | mindjuju | so UTOS is considering running a scholarship for seniors in high school |
| 14:50.22 | mindjuju | back in '92 the soup du jour was writting an essay, but i was wondering do senior know how to program? |
| 14:50.35 | mindjuju | do you think it's feasible to do something along that lines? |
| 14:51.12 | *** join/#uphpu mahelious (~mahelious@63-248-90-64.static.sdyl0420.digis.net) |
| 14:51.16 | mgeary | interesting |
| 14:51.24 | mindjuju | i would *think* some know how to, truthfully, it's an unfounded opninion |
| 14:51.36 | mindjuju | opinion |
| 14:51.37 | mgeary | i have to say, my experience thus far is limited to elementary school |
| 14:51.45 | mindjuju | ah |
| 14:52.19 | mindjuju | maybe i should talk to a high school guidance counselor |
| 14:52.30 | mgeary | but in interacting with a few kids at church who have an interest in computers, my general opinion is that very few HS kids know enough about programming to write something complex |
| 14:52.49 | mgeary | those that do generally do because they have taken the initiative to learn on their own |
| 14:52.58 | mgeary | i'd love to be proven wrong; that's just my general impression |
| 14:53.19 | mindjuju | you're prolly right |
| 14:53.42 | mgeary | that's what i'm hoping to change in my own kids |
| 14:54.01 | mindjuju | no doubt, how is the python training coming? |
| 14:54.20 | mgeary | well, this year we're doing "Web Development" instead of python programming |
| 14:54.28 | mgeary | we learned about <img> tags today |
| 14:54.34 | mindjuju | nice! |
| 14:54.46 | mindjuju | what age group is it? |
| 14:54.46 | mgeary | it's going alright |
| 14:54.57 | mindjuju | 6th? |
| 14:55.31 | mgeary | most of them are in 6th |
| 14:55.55 | mgeary | not sure what i'm going to do next year, since my eldest will be in junior high, but my other two will still be in elementary |
| 14:56.02 | mgeary | not sure i can pull off 2 classes |
| 14:59.29 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold1 (~Adium@76.8.223.101) |
| 14:59.29 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold1] by ChanServ |
| 15:05.18 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 15:05.18 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 15:07.16 | *** join/#uphpu nickdc (~NCrandall@128.187.193.105) |
| 15:08.02 | *** join/#uphpu jtsnow (~jtsnow@75-169-60-127.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 15:13.12 | Utah_Dave | css refresher question. If I have two stylesheets included in my header that both modify <ul>, which one has precedence? |
| 15:14.50 | mindjuju | as far as i know, the last one |
| 15:15.13 | mgeary | right |
| 15:15.22 | mindjuju | and if you have something specified in css and then you have it specified in the document, the document overrides |
| 15:15.42 | mindjuju | this is sad - http://news.yahoo.com/kindergartener-brings-crack-pipe-meth-show-tell-202314001.html |
| 15:16.13 | Utah_Dave | Hmm. |
| 15:17.47 | *** join/#uphpu jtsnow (~jtsnow@75-169-60-127.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 15:24.16 | *** join/#uphpu TuxToaster (~TuxToaste@205.204.33.82) |
| 15:33.44 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: ping |
| 15:34.28 | mindjuju | i'm here |
| 15:34.48 | mindjuju | but i think i forgot my lunch :( |
| 15:34.49 | TuxToaster | you mentioned you were looking for someone selling server racks yesterday |
| 15:34.58 | mindjuju | yup |
| 15:35.02 | mindjuju | you got some? |
| 15:35.22 | TuxToaster | I know of a couple of places that might be selling some cabinets |
| 15:35.29 | mindjuju | yeah? |
| 15:35.44 | influx | mindjuju: How was Project Day? |
| 15:35.52 | mindjuju | influx, was awesome |
| 15:36.05 | influx | :D |
| 15:36.09 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: trying to get details on prices, but one of them is selling a setup that looks like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/42u-Compaq-7142-Server-Rack-Cabinet-Enclosure-Racks-/200650817551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb7b8800f#ht_2628wt_1217 |
| 15:36.31 | TuxToaster | they have a 3-cabinet set, complete with side panels, KVM switch and cabling |
| 15:37.03 | TuxToaster | they were going to sell two of the cabinets and the KVM for around $400, but now they decided they are just going to sell the whole set, so they are figuring out how much they want to sell it for |
| 15:37.45 | mindjuju | it's actually for a friend of mine, let me ask and see what he wants to do |
| 15:38.31 | *** join/#uphpu Monnok (~monnok@c-71-195-231-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:38.32 | TuxToaster | kk. I know of another place that has some single cabinets and other stuff as well, I've been trying to get ahold of them for details as well |
| 15:41.51 | herlo | okay, I concur with the oatmeal on this one: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cracker_jack |
| 15:55.36 | *** join/#uphpu redroy (~Adium@216.51.63.72) |
| 15:58.49 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Adium@74.51.216.34) |
| 15:58.49 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 16:22.47 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (~Adium@76.8.223.101) |
| 16:22.47 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 16:32.34 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@184-11-47-23.dr01.dlta.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 16:32.35 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 16:32.35 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ |
| 17:08.43 | *** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (~jason@76.8.222.23) |
| 17:08.43 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v PoeticIntensity] by ChanServ |
| 17:32.45 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (~Adium@76.8.223.101) |
| 17:32.45 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 18:17.27 | *** join/#uphpu _clint_ (~Adium@c-67-177-57-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:19.12 | *** join/#uphpu _clint_ (~Adium@c-67-177-57-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:28.57 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@184-11-47-23.dr01.dlta.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 18:28.57 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 18:28.57 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ |
| 18:38.33 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap_ (~jtolley@184-11-47-23.dr01.dlta.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 18:39.38 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 18:39.38 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ |
| 18:50.05 | *** join/#uphpu Monnok (~monnok@c-71-195-231-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:58.28 | *** join/#uphpu Monnok (~monnok@c-71-195-231-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:04.52 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Adium@74.51.216.34) |
| 19:04.53 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 19:16.36 | mindjuju | darn, missed some of it |
| 19:16.44 | mindjuju | google in front of congress - http://www.c-span.org/Events/Google-Exec-Testifies-Before-Congress/10737424248-1/ |
| 19:30.05 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801 (~jkr801@dsl093-228-008.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:31.17 | josephscott | $rlart |
| 19:31.17 | raifbot | crushes sheri with a full height scsi disk. |
| 19:31.27 | mindjuju | poor sheri |
| 19:31.29 | sheri | hah |
| 19:35.29 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju_ (~mindjuju@173-10-26-193-BusName-utah.ut.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:36.06 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants1 (~ninnypant@76.8.192.78) |
| 19:36.58 | josephscott | you can tell because he has a mustache |
| 19:38.46 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants1 (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 19:39.05 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@173-10-26-193-BusName-utah.ut.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:39.05 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 19:40.17 | mindjuju | wow, that eric schmidt doesn't get shaken easily |
| 19:40.23 | mindjuju | they were asking him some hard questions |
| 19:43.27 | fungus | He was clear, honest, and un-phased. quite impressive. |
| 19:44.10 | mindjuju | v true, i trully wish the repub candidates could take lessons |
| 19:44.24 | mindjuju | no a one of them spoke nearly as clearly |
| 19:47.22 | *** part/#uphpu nickdc (~NCrandall@128.187.193.105) |
| 19:50.07 | fungus | I saw our silly rep Mike Lee ask him a Q. It wasn't even a question, it was total bull crap |
| 19:50.35 | mindjuju | he did say some things that made me want to go back to the beginning and hear what was said then |
| 19:50.47 | mindjuju | so, i'm at the start |
| 19:50.52 | mindjuju | http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/OversightofG |
| 19:51.10 | fungus | Yeah, but he just rambled and made all kinds of assumptions. I really really hate him |
| 19:52.52 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801 (~jkr801@ip65-46-62-250.z62-46-65.customer.algx.net) |
| 20:09.56 | macnewbold | what's the subject of the questioning/testimony? |
| 20:10.29 | mindjuju | Senate Committee Judiciary | Antitrust, Competition Policy & Consumer Rights |
| 20:12.39 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Adium@74.51.216.34) |
| 20:12.39 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 20:12.48 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801 (~jkr801@dsl093-228-008.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:18.48 | *** join/#uphpu jnbek- (~jnbek@69.169.154.109.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 20:21.24 | *** join/#uphpu jnbek- (~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek) |
| 20:32.30 | mindjuju | fungus, if you're interested - though it might frustrate you, mike lee arguement starts at around minute 30 in the meeting |
| 20:32.58 | fungus | I'll have to watch the whole thing. |
| 20:36.17 | mindjuju | hmm, curiously, politico does report $$ taken in from microsoft PAC by Mike Lee - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51152.html |
| 20:36.27 | mindjuju | this off a quick google query of microsoft and mike lee |
| 20:38.20 | mindjuju | i think if i ever run for office, the only campaign funds i'm going to ake outside of private citizen donation, is monies from florists |
| 20:40.02 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@2001:470:1f0f:94a::1:2) |
| 20:40.02 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v tierra] by niven.freenode.net |
| 20:40.48 | influx | What about accepting donations from UTOSC? |
| 20:40.55 | mindjuju | nope |
| 20:41.06 | mindjuju | can't be connected to me previously in any way |
| 20:41.28 | herlo | mindjuju: you won't win |
| 20:41.29 | influx | Heh. |
| 20:41.38 | mindjuju | but i tried |
| 20:41.40 | herlo | mostly because you are well-connected |
| 20:41.43 | mindjuju | and that's good enough for me |
| 20:41.53 | herlo | and you can't accept donations from *most* people or businesses :) |
| 20:41.59 | herlo | and you'll need $$ |
| 20:42.14 | influx | and a herlo |
| 20:42.15 | mindjuju | i have $12 on me right now |
| 20:42.46 | herlo | nice |
| 20:42.56 | mindjuju | :) it's from the pizza fund |
| 20:43.03 | mindjuju | otherwise i don't usually have cash on hand |
| 20:45.46 | herlo | nice |
| 20:47.35 | influx | man |
| 20:47.41 | influx | i could do with some pizza |
| 20:47.53 | *** join/#uphpu JacobEdmondKerr (~JacobEdmo@205.204.32.14) |
| 20:49.53 | mgeary | hey folks |
| 20:50.00 | JacobEdmondKerr | Do you guys know the UNIX command to find all files modified from 100 days ago to 50 days ago? |
| 20:50.23 | JacobEdmondKerr | -mtime +100 -mtime -50 |
| 20:50.41 | mgeary | when apache writes a line to the access_log, when does that happen, as far as when data is actually sent to the client? |
| 20:50.45 | mindjuju | hi mgeary |
| 20:52.01 | mgeary | i've got a case where a client is seeing 16 second response times on a SOAP interface, but i'm seeing the entry appear in the log about 3 seconds after they make the request |
| 20:52.06 | mgeary | trying to figure out where the slowdown could be |
| 20:53.37 | mindjuju | live http headers or charles? |
| 20:53.49 | mgeary | neither |
| 20:53.54 | mgeary | when *i* make the request, it's ~4 seconds |
| 20:54.03 | mgeary | so i have to look on the server directly for anything useful |
| 20:54.32 | JacobEdmondKerr | Do you guys know if u can do a find and sort a list of letz say 5,000 results all by date? |
| 20:54.34 | unum | I would modify the script to out time() to the log at the beginning and end. |
| 20:54.37 | JacobEdmondKerr | UNIX command. |
| 20:54.55 | DexterTheDragon | Apache only writes the log entry upon completion of the request (one of the |
| 20:54.56 | DexterTheDragon | standard fields in the log is the number of bytes transferred, which will |
| 20:54.56 | DexterTheDragon | not be known until the end of the request) |
| 20:56.21 | mgeary | right, but that is before those bytes are actually sent, right? |
| 20:56.29 | mgeary | since the server doesn't track when the client has finished receiving |
| 20:58.37 | DexterTheDragon | they're sent from apache |
| 20:59.24 | mindjuju | so JacobEdmondKerr, i'm not sure on any of the questions you've asked, but #utah has tons of sys admins there |
| 20:59.31 | mindjuju | i'm sure they'd hlep |
| 21:00.03 | JacobEdmondKerr | K, thanks :) |
| 21:09.04 | *** join/#uphpu redroy (~Adium@216.51.63.72) |
| 21:10.31 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801 (~jkr801@c-67-186-196-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:11.29 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@208.95.152.44) |
| 21:11.29 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v josephscott] by ChanServ |
| 21:12.51 | mgeary | fungus: you got a sec? |
| 21:17.01 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@208.95.152.44) |
| 21:17.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v josephscott] by ChanServ |
| 21:19.37 | mindjuju | hmm, no texting whilst walking - http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700181117/BYU-Idaho-town-outlaws-texting-crossing-street-study-reveals-dangers.html?s_cid=rss-32 |
| 21:19.49 | mindjuju | i wonder if i can still play robot unicorn attack and walk at the same time |
| 21:22.16 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: coming soon: you can't cross the street without a uniformed escort |
| 21:26.49 | mindjuju | prolly true |
| 21:26.52 | mindjuju | that or checkpoints |
| 21:27.21 | mindjuju | freakin' nfl making it a requirement to get a free body frisk |
| 21:29.25 | josephscott | I'd be good with forbidding texting while driving, I've been too close to being killed by those crazies |
| 21:29.53 | mindjuju | anything whislt driving and i'm in agreement |
| 21:30.16 | mindjuju | but walking? maybe peds are carelessly walking infront of cars? |
| 21:30.28 | herlo | dude, they are 18 and stupid |
| 21:30.32 | herlo | they need protection! |
| 21:34.28 | Utah_Dave | My new laptop just showed up!!!!!!!! |
| 21:34.40 | herlo | nice |
| 21:34.46 | herlo | Utah_Dave: what'dya get? |
| 21:36.12 | Utah_Dave | about as maxed out a Dell laptop as you can get. |
| 21:36.26 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@2001:470:1f0f:94a::1:2) |
| 21:36.26 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v tierra] by niven.freenode.net |
| 21:37.01 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801 (~jkr801@c-67-186-196-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:40.20 | herlo | nice |
| 21:48.33 | *** join/#uphpu Tungsten_Jack (~Tungsten_@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek) |
| 21:54.06 | *** join/#uphpu josephpagoda (~josephpag@24-116-177-210.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 21:54.17 | josephpagoda | hello everyone! |
| 21:55.17 | herlo | oh, hai! |
| 21:56.05 | *** join/#uphpu xtrementl (~xtrementl@neutroninteractive-xmission.xmission.com) |
| 21:57.07 | josephpagoda | pagodabox is wanting to become far more involved in the php world |
| 21:57.20 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801 (~jkr801@c-67-186-196-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:57.26 | josephpagoda | and is interested in presenting at meetups, user group meetings, and conferences |
| 21:57.31 | josephpagoda | also interested in sponsorship and what not |
| 21:57.52 | josephpagoda | would uphpu be interested in seeing us? |
| 21:58.40 | jsmith | Of course! |
| 21:58.48 | jsmith | UPHPU loves everybody! |
| 21:58.51 | herlo | lol |
| 21:59.03 | herlo | jsmith: you love everyone! |
| 21:59.43 | jsmith | herlo: Well, almost everyone... |
| 21:59.55 | unum | I'll have to send an email out to the list when the posting for my position goes up |
| 22:00.03 | herlo | oh right, you only like me very much |
| 22:01.10 | jsmith | herlo: I like to beat you at Catan, if that's what you're referring to |
| 22:04.18 | josephscott | idaho, that's kind of local to UPHPU :-) |
| 22:09.01 | mindjuju | VERY cool geek watches - http://www.watchismo.com/click-watches.aspx |
| 22:09.58 | mindjuju | i can't tell if i want the one with the DIP switch or the knob |
| 22:13.44 | fungus | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/ |
| 22:14.03 | mgeary | fungus: |
| 22:14.23 | mgeary | sorry |
| 22:14.39 | josephpagoda | so who should I contact? |
| 22:14.57 | mgeary | fungus: i've got a consumer of a SOAP service who is saying this: |
| 22:15.01 | mgeary | "Looks like they're sending the data right away, but not closing the socket connection until later for some reason. Guess we're waiting for the socket to close, that appears to be the delay. " |
| 22:15.24 | mgeary | fungus: any insights into what i could do to close a socket connection more promptly? |
| 22:20.03 | jsmith | mgeary: Make sure the content length matches the actual sent data length. Seems like PoeticIntensity hit this a few months back |
| 22:20.20 | jsmith | mgeary: (Something about a missing "\n" at the end of the data, or something like that) |
| 22:22.16 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@184-11-47-23.dr01.dlta.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 22:22.16 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 22:22.16 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.33 | josephscott | josephpagoda: contact macnewbold |
| 22:22.48 | josephpagoda | kk, thanks |
| 22:22.55 | josephpagoda | macnewbold: you around by any chance? |
| 22:23.07 | josephscott | ~summon macnewbold |
| 22:23.08 | ibot | apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing macnewbold's coordinates |
| 22:29.19 | PoeticIntensity | 3 years ago, I found out that ?wsdl is required, thanks to jsmith. |
| 22:29.34 | mindjuju | heh |
| 22:30.25 | jsmith-away | PoeticIntensity: That was fun, wasn't it? |
| 22:30.55 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... I blogged about it, and it's helped a lot of people... The documentation about that is buried somewhere in msdn's site. |
| 22:31.16 | jsmith-away | PoeticIntensity: Find your blog post and pass it along to mgeary, please :-) |
| 22:32.06 | unum | http://www.ksl.com/jobs/listing/37558/23 |
| 22:33.42 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary, jsmith-away here ya go. |
| 22:33.43 | PoeticIntensity | http://www.ilovemyjournal.com/?action=view_entry&eid=4354 |
| 22:35.48 | mgeary | jsmith-away: PoeticIntensity, i don't think this is the same issue. I've got a PHP Soap service that is being consumed by Java |
| 22:35.56 | mgeary | when i consume the service with PHP, it works just great |
| 22:36.49 | PoeticIntensity | hrm... |
| 22:42.48 | *** part/#uphpu Monnok (~monnok@c-71-195-231-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.36 | macnewbold | did josephpagoda leave? |
| 22:45.38 | macnewbold | i missed him |
| 22:48.49 | *** join/#uphpu sheri (~sheri@203.sub-75-194-216.myvzw.com) |
| 22:49.19 | herlo | macnewbold: he's in #utos |
| 22:53.41 | josephpagoda | i'm here too |
| 22:53.48 | josephpagoda | macnewbold! |
| 22:53.52 | josephpagoda | :-P |
| 22:54.26 | josephpagoda | dang... i missed him |
| 22:54.29 | josephpagoda | :-P |
| 22:55.08 | mgeary | bah. |
| 22:56.10 | fungus | mgeary, what's up |
| 22:56.20 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap_ (~jtolley@74.36.73.22) |
| 22:56.48 | mgeary | fungus: i'm having some grief with socket timeouts, and it's way over my head |
| 22:57.10 | *** join/#uphpu eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 22:57.10 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v eggyknap] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.09 | mgeary | i've got a (PHPcake) app that has a SOAP interface. When i consume these services with PHP, it's super fast. When a client consumes them with Java (Axis), apparently even though my server services the connection quickly, the socket is staying open, and their app is waiting for the socket to close, so they're seeing ~15sec round trips |
| 22:58.40 | mindjuju | ~apb eggyknap |
| 22:58.40 | ibot | ACTION summons Tim to rough up eggyknap |
| 22:58.42 | mgeary | talking to thebigdog, i tried changing my /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_fin_timeout value, but that doesn't appear to have any impact for the client |
| 22:59.20 | fungus | Is each round trip 15sec, or is just the close of the socket being delayed? |
| 23:00.38 | mgeary | each request they make appears to take ~15 sec |
| 23:01.01 | fungus | is everything slow, or does the delay only appear at the close? |
| 23:01.05 | fungus | got a packet capture? |
| 23:01.36 | josephscott | strace output? |
| 23:01.47 | mgeary | i can get a wireshark capture screenshot. one sec |
| 23:02.59 | mgeary | dev.gearyweb.com/temp/cap.jpeg |
| 23:03.27 | mgeary | does that tell you anything? |
| 23:05.36 | fungus | Yup |
| 23:05.57 | unum | mgeary: come on you know you've always wanted to follow in my footsteps :p |
| 23:06.09 | mgeary | ?? |
| 23:06.13 | mgeary | oh |
| 23:06.15 | mgeary | hah |
| 23:06.26 | fungus | the server didn't even start to close the connection until 15 seconds. |
| 23:06.28 | fungus | Apache? |
| 23:06.29 | mgeary | yes |
| 23:07.13 | fungus | mgeary, is the client using KeepAlive |
| 23:07.24 | mgeary | fungus: in what sense? |
| 23:07.38 | mgeary | he says, "not that i know of" |
| 23:07.40 | fungus | Does the request request Keepalive |
| 23:07.48 | fungus | Look at the request packet |
| 23:07.53 | fungus | headers. |
| 23:08.32 | mindjuju | isn't there a keepalive download plugin for a browser? |
| 23:08.58 | fungus | KeepAlive is a normal browser thing. |
| 23:09.07 | fungus | Most HTTP clients implement it. |
| 23:09.11 | mgeary | trying to arrange a way to talk to the guy who's got Wireshark |
| 23:09.42 | fungus | can you just run captures on your own server? |
| 23:09.54 | fungus | The default KeepAliveTimeout is 15 seconds |
| 23:10.34 | mgeary | fungus: you mean look at the packet that is coming in to the server? |
| 23:10.44 | fungus | Right, HTTP headers |
| 23:10.54 | fungus | The GET/POST request |
| 23:11.18 | mgeary | i'm in as root on the server. What's the best way to get those headers? i can have them issue a request on demand |
| 23:12.00 | mgeary | should i modify the apache log format? |
| 23:12.01 | fungus | tcpdump -s 0 -w filename.pcap host <remoteIP> |
| 23:12.55 | JacobEdmondKerr | arg cp so slow. |
| 23:13.20 | fungus | mgeary, assuming he has keepalive on (default in HTTP1.1), it's the client's responsibility to close the connection. |
| 23:13.49 | fungus | If he doesn't close the connection, then your server waits for the timeout before issuing the connection close. |
| 23:14.10 | mgeary | so ideally i can have him not put a keepalive in the request |
| 23:14.38 | fungus | or just ask him to explicitly close the connection once the request is fulfilled. |
| 23:15.38 | mgeary | my tcpdump capture didn't get anything |
| 23:16.38 | fungus | you may need to add -i <interface> if the traffic is not on the first interface of the system. |
| 23:16.56 | fungus | and replace <remoteIP> with the client's public address |
| 23:17.57 | mgeary | right. i'm pulling that IP from my apache logs |
| 23:18.15 | mgeary | eth0 on my local machine has the public IP, so i'm guessing that's the right interface |
| 23:18.30 | fungus | sounds right. |
| 23:19.02 | mgeary | how do i analyze the pcap file? |
| 23:19.08 | mgeary | i got some stuff in it now |
| 23:19.15 | fungus | open it in wireshark |
| 23:20.42 | mgeary | easier said than done |
| 23:21.46 | mgeary | my local wireshark isn't launching. |
| 23:21.50 | fungus | doh |
| 23:22.35 | mgeary | okay |
| 23:22.39 | mgeary | sudo opened it |
| 23:22.49 | fungus | Essentially, the client either needs to send the header "Connection: close" to disable keep-alive, or explicitly close the connection when the request is complete. |
| 23:23.08 | fungus | your server is responding correctly. |
| 23:23.13 | mgeary | okay, i've got the dump open in wireshark |
| 23:23.39 | fungus | Check the request packet, and look at the headers. |
| 23:24.00 | fungus | Look for the HTTP version, and look for a Connection: header |
| 23:27.00 | mgeary | i'm looking at a request packed. Not sure where to see the connection header. i see "Frame 102" and "Ethernet II" and "Internet Protocol" and... |
| 23:27.25 | fungus | it'll be in the HTTP layer |
| 23:27.40 | fungus | right below the TCP layer |
| 23:28.05 | mgeary | none of my packets have anything below the TCP layer :S |
| 23:28.26 | fungus | share your pcap file |
| 23:28.29 | fungus | w/ me |
| 23:28.42 | mgeary | emailed |
| 23:29.53 | fungus | there's a few requests in here, give me a min to understand it |
| 23:30.46 | mgeary | their server is 208.28.133.200 |
| 23:34.22 | mgeary | looks like maybe if i can convince them to use HTTP/1.0 instead of 1.1 the KeepAlive issue would go away. Do you foresee any issues with that? |
| 23:35.58 | fungus | Interesting... |
| 23:36.17 | fungus | Their request used HTTP/1.0, and had no Connection header |
| 23:36.33 | fungus | RFC says no keep alive would be used in that case. |
| 23:36.34 | mgeary | hrm. so they're already using 1.0 :/ |
| 23:37.12 | fungus | Your response was HTTP/1.1 and also had no Connection header. |
| 23:38.13 | fungus | So I think your server is enabling keep-alive when it probably shouldn't. |
| 23:38.27 | mgeary | aha. so that's an apache setting? |
| 23:38.51 | fungus | well, you could disable keepalive all-together, but that's a bad thing. |
| 23:38.59 | mgeary | i can confirm that keepAlive is on |
| 23:39.01 | mgeary | but yeah |
| 23:39.12 | fungus | A better solution, is to ask the client to send a Connection: close header |
| 23:39.12 | mgeary | but i could try it and see if it changes anything, no? |
| 23:39.21 | fungus | or have them close the connection when it completes. |
| 23:39.26 | mgeary | i also just found this: KeepAliveTimeout 15 |
| 23:39.34 | fungus | Right, that's default. |
| 23:39.41 | mgeary | i could try taking that down to, say, 5... |
| 23:39.46 | fungus | you could. |
| 23:40.18 | fungus | Doesn't solve the problem, just minimizes it. |
| 23:40.30 | mgeary | yeah |
| 23:40.35 | mgeary | but it does indeed have an impact |
| 23:41.08 | mgeary | where/how would they send a close header? |
| 23:42.29 | fungus | Just add a "Connection: close" header to their existing request headers |
| 23:43.46 | fungus | http://axis.apache.org/axis2/java/core/docs/http-transport.html |
| 23:45.04 | mgeary | where/how were you able to see the http layer in my pcap file? |
| 23:45.19 | mgeary | i'm having him try adding that header now |
| 23:46.02 | fungus | First you have to find the packet with the request in it. |
| 23:46.24 | fungus | it was packet 89 in this case |
| 23:46.55 | mgeary | aha. i see it |
| 23:47.11 | mgeary | is there a way to have tcpdump show me the headers in plaintext in real time? |
| 23:47.28 | fungus | Yes, but it's really ugly |
| 23:47.44 | fungus | If you install tcpflow it can do it a lot prettier |
| 23:48.12 | mgeary | done |
| 23:48.26 | fungus | tcpflow -c host 208.28.133.200 |
| 23:49.08 | fungus | That'll spew the ascii text of all packets flying in either direction. |
| 23:49.14 | fungus | including headers and content |
| 23:49.27 | mgeary | indeed |
| 23:49.28 | mgeary | awesome |
| 23:49.36 | mgeary | though i don't see a Connection header :/ |