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| 01:43.20 | cedwards | I'm trying to do a self-posting form, but it simply duplicates my page at the footer with the success or error output. |
| 01:44.15 | cedwards | if i point the form action to another script everything works great, but to clean up the URL I thought I'd self-post the form.. |
| 01:44.49 | cedwards | once I press submit I get my form page followed by, in duplicate, the error/success page just below it. |
| 01:46.16 | cedwards | der. I got it. |
| 01:52.51 | cedwards | actually, maybe I didn't. |
| 01:53.23 | cedwards | nope. i didn't. |
| 02:05.58 | jsmith | cedwards: I usually have something like this: |
| 02:06.10 | jsmith | if (!empty($_POST['key'])) |
| 02:06.11 | jsmith | { |
| 02:06.18 | jsmith | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:06.20 | jsmith | } |
| 02:06.21 | jsmith | else |
| 02:06.23 | jsmith | { |
| 02:06.27 | jsmith | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:06.29 | jsmith | } |
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| 02:29.29 | cedwards | looks like I was missing an exit(); after processing things, so it went on and drew the index again. |
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| 03:44.08 | josephscott | $chuck-fact |
| 03:44.09 | raifbot | Chuck Norris doesnât wear a watch. HE decides what time it is. |
| 03:59.56 | carmony | hrm, interesting. Found a program called mysqldiff |
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| 04:04.27 | josephscott | what does it do? |
| 04:05.36 | josephscott | diff schemas? |
| 04:05.38 | carmony | it can do diff's between databaes |
| 04:05.39 | carmony | yeah |
| 04:06.08 | carmony | at least it is supose to |
| 04:06.12 | josephscott | http://schemasync.org/ ? |
| 04:17.50 | carmony | no, its a perl thingy |
| 04:17.59 | carmony | http://software.adamspiers.org/wiki/mysqldiff |
| 04:18.09 | carmony | I can't get it to install on my mac though |
| 04:21.50 | carmony | josephscott: this one you found looks better though |
| 04:22.31 | josephscott | haven't tried it yet but it sounds good |
| 04:32.29 | eggyknap | check_postgres (http://bucardo.org/wiki/Check_postgres) has something similar for postgres, fwiw |
| 04:40.19 | josephscott | $rlart |
| 04:40.19 | raifbot | blames bradym for all the evil in the world. |
| 04:43.38 | josephscott | carmony: check out this 404 page - https://github.com/jmathai/epicode/tree/master/php/EpiCurl.php |
| 04:43.47 | josephscott | run your mouse back and forth over the image |
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| 13:33.37 | cedwards | considering this is the magical place where I seem to solve most of my own problems, here is my latest: |
| 13:33.40 | cedwards | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:33.43 | cedwards | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:34.03 | cedwards | [Thu Apr 14 07:29:13 2011] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: mysqli_stmt_bind_param() expects parameter 1 to be mysqli_stmt, boolean given in /srv/http/site/db.inc.php on line 40, referer: http://127.0.0.1/site/ |
| 13:34.07 | cedwards | [Thu Apr 14 07:29:13 2011] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: mysqli_stmt_execute() expects parameter 1 to be mysqli_stmt, boolean given in /srv/http/site/db.inc.php on line 42, referer: http://127.0.0.1/site/ |
| 13:34.11 | cedwards | [Thu Apr 14 07:29:13 2011] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] PHP Warning: mysqli_stmt_close() expects parameter 1 to be mysqli_stmt, boolean given in /srv/http/site/db.inc.php on line 43, referer: http://127.0.0.1/site/ |
| 13:36.15 | stderr- | cedwards: mysqli_prepare is returning false. |
| 13:36.47 | stderr- | what version of PHP are you using? Is $connection actually connected? |
| 13:37.08 | stderr- | err s/PHP/MySQL |
| 13:38.46 | cedwards | PHP 5.3.6 with Suhosin-Patch (cli) (built: Apr 9 2011 20:47:23), and Server version: 5.5.11 |
| 13:40.02 | cedwards | I don't get any errors re: connection or charset: |
| 13:40.03 | cedwards | http://pastebin.com/pXz9nZyr |
| 13:41.12 | cedwards | I'm using this page as a reference. I don't see what I'm missing: http://www.php.net/manual/en/mysqli-stmt.bind-param.php |
| 13:41.12 | stderr- | try inspecting mysqli_connect_error() after the connection, rather than giving a generic error message, and what version of MySQL? |
| 13:41.41 | cedwards | MySQL 5.5.11 |
| 13:43.30 | stderr- | huh. Well, the statement is failing for some reason. you sure the table name is "ticket"? |
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| 13:44.53 | cedwards | yeah. I've been using the same "normal" query and it works fine. I know I need to migrate to bound params and I run into trouble. |
| 13:46.14 | stderr- | I guess since it's prepared you wouldn't have any problems in the query til execution anyway |
| 13:46.29 | stderr- | *shrug* mysqli_prepare is where your problem lies, or something in the connection |
| 13:46.54 | cedwards | I'll troubleshoot the connection.. |
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| 13:48.52 | cedwards | hmm. no output when I add 'echo mysqli_connect_error();' just after if (!$connection) { |
| 13:50.11 | cedwards | perhaps it's too early in the morning to be coding. yeah, i'll blame it on that. |
| 13:52.09 | cedwards | ..adding an else statement to my connection test does return "Connection works, damnit". |
| 13:57.05 | stderr- | how about changing the query in mysqli_prepare to something easy? |
| 13:57.17 | stderr- | (not that it isn't 'easy' already) |
| 13:59.04 | cedwards | i wouldn't suppose using 5.5 is causing problems? That's what my distro supplies. |
| 14:05.58 | jsmith | cedwards: What happens if you call mysqli_error() after the call to mysqli_prepare |
| 14:14.04 | cedwards | using mysqli_error($connection) just after the prepare gives me: |
| 14:14.08 | cedwards | "Column count doesn't match value count at row 1 " |
| 14:15.08 | cedwards | can I not count? each of these have ten fields, right? |
| 14:15.10 | cedwards | $stmt = mysqli_prepare($connection, "INSERT INTO ticket VALUES (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)"); |
| 14:15.18 | cedwards | mysqli_stmt_bind_param($stmt, 'ississssss', $priority, $name, $email, $department, $location, $description, $phone, $subject, $created, $ip); |
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| 14:20.20 | cedwards | ohh, wait a second. I do have more columns than that but a few are allowed to be NULL. |
| 14:21.31 | cedwards | how can I specify which variables should go into which columns when a few will be empty from POST? |
| 14:21.58 | cedwards | do I simply just include those too in the bind_param and they'll be empty/NULL values? |
| 14:24.32 | Utah_Dave | I'd probably set all the variables to NULL first before setting them to the POST variables. |
| 14:25.53 | cedwards | and what about the id column which should be auto_increment? |
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| 14:36.41 | jsmith | cedwards: If you want to leave some of them null, you do something like "INSERT INTO ticket (blah, name, priority, email, some, other, field, names) VALUES (?, ?, ?, ?)" |
| 14:42.14 | cedwards | jsmith: yeah. I just asked one of our DBAs and that's what he suggested. |
| 14:42.31 | cedwards | i didn't know if I could specify a column list AND use the ?, ?, ? values syntax. |
| 14:42.47 | jsmith | cedwards: Of course you can! |
| 14:43.24 | cedwards | haven't done bound params before. I'm trying to Do It Right(tm), which'll hit a few speed bumps. |
| 14:44.53 | jsmith | They're worth the effort :-) |
| 14:48.21 | cedwards | hmm. still not quite working. |
| 14:48.32 | cedwards | *almost* there. I can feel it. |
| 14:49.43 | cedwards | not getting any errors any more, but it's also not making it to the database. |
| 14:50.22 | jsmith | Does mysqli_error tell you anything? |
| 14:50.29 | cedwards | ooh. got it. |
| 14:50.37 | cedwards | :sigh: |
| 14:51.07 | cedwards | nothing quite like the feeling of conquering a stubborn issue. also nothing quite like the feeling of a stubborn issue kicking your ass either :) |
| 14:51.41 | jsmith | That was me last night, fighting with some SSL cert issues |
| 14:52.22 | jsmith | Turns out it had nothing to do with my certs -- the [unkind word] person who setup the machine set the time to the wrong year, and I didn't notice... |
| 14:52.42 | jsmith | So it was rejecting the SSL certs, because the start date hadn't arrived yet |
| 14:52.53 | jsmith | Took me over an hour to figure out it wasn't 2010 anymore :-/ |
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| 14:56.11 | cedwards | ohh I *so* love that I beat this problem. |
| 14:56.20 | cedwards | sql injections, kiss my ass! |
| 14:59.08 | jsmith | cedwards: Now, if only XSS and CSRF attacks were that easy to foil :-p |
| 14:59.30 | jsmith | cedwards: Plus all the data validation errors that are out there :-p |
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| 15:29.02 | macnewbold | mgeary: did you find out what you needed on ErrorDocument? It's one of my favorites |
| 15:29.08 | mgeary | macnewbold: i didn't |
| 15:29.14 | mgeary | so, here's the deal |
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| 15:29.28 | mgeary | we're doing some url rewriting magic which is getting in the way |
| 15:29.33 | macnewbold | ah |
| 15:30.11 | mgeary | http://dpaste.org/O2LI/ |
| 15:30.47 | mgeary | so what that code is doing is basically, "hey, if the request isn't a file and isn't a directory, route it over to rewrite.php" |
| 15:31.29 | mgeary | and what rewrite.php does, among other things, is some magic proxying that allows certain fictitious urls to work, if they're defined in a database |
| 15:31.55 | mgeary | however, currently if the request URI isn't a real file/directory, and isn't defined in the database, we're doing this: |
| 15:32.55 | mgeary | http://dpaste.org/S7n9/ |
| 15:33.54 | mgeary | however, what i *want* to do, ideally, would be to do the equivalent of: ErrorDocument 404 /foo.php if the previous conditions aren't met |
| 15:34.08 | mgeary | but the request has already been handed off to php at that point, so i don't think that's an option |
| 15:34.33 | mgeary | make sense? |
| 15:37.02 | mgeary | i could certainly do a redirect to foo.php instead of echoing out that 404 content, but then the browser gets a redirect and then a 200 OK code, rather than a 404. I do still want the 404 header... |
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| 15:39.11 | mgeary | so i'm probably going to be forced to essentially buffer the output of foo.php and echo it out in my rewrite.php :/ |
| 15:39.32 | macnewbold | hm |
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| 16:10.32 | mindjuju1 | ~seen redroy |
| 16:10.44 | ibot | redroy <~Adium@67.137.120.26> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 1d 20h 6m 7s ago, saying: 'nice read, carmony'. |
| 16:11.17 | carmony | hey macnewbold: do we know what is going on with the php meeting for this month? :) |
| 16:14.59 | carmony | mgeary: you could create a 404.php and redirect to that |
| 16:15.14 | josephscott | $8ball does macnewbold know what is going with the php meeting for this month? |
| 16:15.14 | raifbot | josephscott - Very doubtful. |
| 16:15.30 | mgeary | carmony: yeah, but i'd still end up with a redirect, which i'd prefer to avoid |
| 16:16.06 | carmony | hrm, then yeah, you'll probably need to have rewrite.php echo include a 404 page and send the 404 header |
| 16:16.19 | carmony | er, include or echo |
| 16:16.26 | mgeary | right |
| 16:16.34 | mgeary | i think that may be my only option |
| 16:16.37 | carmony | yeah |
| 16:16.37 | josephscott | this 404 page is fun https://github.com/404 |
| 16:16.54 | carmony | josephscott: lol, are you warming up to git for certain things yet? :P |
| 16:17.04 | josephscott | and their 500 page - https://github.com/500 |
| 16:17.15 | josephscott | I've used git for a few small things |
| 16:17.50 | josephscott | not convinced I'd replace svn with git for all things |
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| 16:18.12 | josephscott | be sure to run your mouse over the images on those error pages |
| 16:18.29 | stderr- | WP hacked again? |
| 16:19.00 | stderr- | WP.com* |
| 16:19.58 | josephscott | again? |
| 16:20.45 | carmony | josephscott: ahaha -- https://github.com/502 |
| 16:20.53 | stderr- | there were a series of them a year and a half ago, it was brought to it's knees by a DDoS earlier this year |
| 16:20.56 | stderr- | its* |
| 16:21.38 | josephscott | DDoS != hacked |
| 16:21.59 | josephscott | link on the one a year and half ago? |
| 16:22.00 | stderr- | You don't have to define hacked to me |
| 16:25.33 | influx | ninnypants: pong |
| 16:26.34 | influx | lolpedantry |
| 16:27.34 | mgeary | hrm |
| 16:28.07 | mgeary | anyone have a neat trick for getting the contents of a rendered php file as a string? i don't want to *include* the file, i want to render it and grab the output |
| 16:28.30 | mgeary | otherwise i have to (re)write a fair bit, because of session stuff, includes, etc |
| 16:28.39 | josephscott | output buffering |
| 16:29.07 | mgeary | but that still doesn't render it the way i want, i believe |
| 16:29.21 | mgeary | the file would be foo.php?bar=132 |
| 16:29.55 | mgeary | and output buffering doesn't, i believe, allow accessing GET params and such |
| 16:30.06 | mgeary | unless there's a way i've not used before |
| 16:30.43 | josephscott | so how are you calling this? |
| 16:30.56 | josephscott | from another PHP script? |
| 16:31.40 | josephscott | file_get_contents('http://www.example.com/?bar=123'); <--- would return the results as a string |
| 16:31.48 | DexterTheDragon | $_GET['bar'] = 132; |
| 16:31.49 | DexterTheDragon | include('foo.php'); |
| 16:31.51 | DexterTheDragon | :D |
| 16:36.13 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju1: woooooo! |
| 16:36.47 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.31 | mgeary | josephscott: i haven't tried that, cool |
| 16:42.05 | *** join/#uphpu Dezertol (1000@mail.vrcubed.com) |
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| 16:51.33 | mindjuju | ~seen poeticintensity |
| 16:51.42 | ibot | poeticintensity <~jason@76.8.222.23> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 8d 22h 13m 22s ago, saying: 'runnin' in the same vein, my friend.'. |
| 16:52.12 | Dezertol | hehe makes me wonder what they where talking about |
| 16:52.29 | mgeary | sounds like you were discussing your heroin habits |
| 16:52.36 | mindjuju | it's Poeticintensity 's bday today |
| 16:52.56 | Dezertol | I always use my floating holiday on my b-day |
| 16:53.15 | mgeary | what's the difference between a floating holiday and just a day of PTO? |
| 16:53.17 | Dezertol | or I take the day off... either way.. |
| 16:53.29 | Dezertol | some companies give you a floating holiday |
| 16:53.41 | mgeary | but how is that different from just giving you one more day of PTO? |
| 16:53.42 | Dezertol | that you can take on either pres day or mrtin king day |
| 16:53.53 | Dezertol | it's not |
| 16:54.09 | Dezertol | but they call it a floating holiday so they can still say they give you xx paid holidays |
| 16:54.19 | mgeary | heh, alright |
| 16:55.24 | *** part/#uphpu shoxty (~shoxty@166-70-144-226.ip.xmission.com) |
| 16:56.48 | mgeary | anyone have any thoughts about Lucid Lynx versus Maverick Meerkat? |
| 16:57.34 | mgeary | i'm normally inclined to go with Karmic Koala, because the others use PHP 5.3 by default, but i'm setting up a new server that i don't anticipate needing to run PHP on |
| 16:57.56 | mindjuju | dtd - http://sqcomic.com/2011/04/14/?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4da720027f734be9%2C0 |
| 17:12.19 | TuxToaster | mgeary: They also do that so they can restrict how you can/can't use it |
| 17:12.45 | TuxToaster | some places will let you take your floating holiday on a day AND work a normal shift, but you can't do that with PTO |
| 17:13.09 | macnewbold | carmony: josephscott: meeting is going to be at Code Greene, from the last I heard from wps - they'll take us next month. |
| 17:13.14 | TuxToaster | most don't obviously, but it could happen |
| 17:13.34 | carmony | macnewbold: ok, sweet |
| 17:14.07 | macnewbold | mgeary: yeah, i haven't used rewrite and error docs together often, but i have used error docs to do what you're saying |
| 17:15.02 | macnewbold | you can send everything to the error doc, then do your db lookup to get your fictitious urls and make them happy, then if it still isn't found, do whatever 404 handling you wanted. |
| 17:15.15 | macnewbold | i have a presentation on it from several years ago that i could pull out if you want. |
| 17:16.33 | TuxToaster | is that for the bit above to get the output of a PHP file? |
| 17:23.20 | *** join/#uphpu bhosie (~bhosie@192.84.171.170) |
| 17:24.46 | macnewbold | TuxToaster: mgeary was doing some stuff with mod rewrite to create virtual urls, but wanted to have a php error document as well, and they weren't playing happy |
| 17:25.03 | macnewbold | but almost anything you can do from the mod rewrite, you can do from php as well, from the error doc |
| 17:25.16 | macnewbold | its a handy workaround too when modrewrite isn't an option |
| 17:26.52 | josephscott | macnewbold: what is the topic next week? |
| 17:28.20 | *** join/#uphpu jkr801_ (~jkr801@70.103.91.98) |
| 17:29.10 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: ah, I just read up and had seen the question about getting PHP output into a string, wasn't following how the error doc fit in :-) |
| 17:33.37 | macnewbold | josephscott: wps is presenting on a php cms tool thing he built if I remember right. he wanted to move it to May to be able to do it at Center7 instead, but unless he has someone else for next week, I don't think that will happen. |
| 17:34.15 | josephscott | ok, I thought wps had switched to may, that is why I was asking |
| 17:38.08 | carmony | we could have just an open discussion this month |
| 17:38.28 | carmony | like "uber awesome t00lz for php!!1" |
| 17:38.48 | xtrementl | like... php to python converter? |
| 17:44.09 | cedwards | what is the preferred method to post a form to itself? action=""? action="<?php $_SERVER['PHP_SELF'] ?>"? |
| 17:44.42 | Dezertol | that's what I use |
| 17:44.46 | carmony | xtrementl: lol |
| 17:45.16 | carmony | here is a python to php converter: aptitude purge python && aptitude install php5 |
| 17:45.23 | carmony | xtrementl: ^^ ;) |
| 17:45.39 | xtrementl | carmony: lol.. but what is that going to do for all my python scripts :) |
| 17:46.12 | carmony | what is the extension for python? py? |
| 17:46.14 | Dezertol | cedwards: tho it's been a while.. now-a-days I always post to index.php and just pass in the class/method's I'm calling |
| 17:46.30 | Dezertol | yeap |
| 17:46.31 | Dezertol | yep |
| 17:46.36 | cedwards | Dezertol: which is what you use? I suppose passing to the filename of index.php makes as much sense. |
| 17:47.36 | Dezertol | meh.. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other |
| 17:48.46 | xtrementl | carmony: yup |
| 17:48.47 | josephscott | cedwards: leave the action attribute blank |
| 17:48.54 | josephscott | actually, just leave it out entirely |
| 17:49.48 | josephscott | leaving it blank works, but is technically against the spec |
| 17:50.32 | carmony | xtrementl: rm -rf *.py |
| 17:51.10 | Dezertol | lol find / -name *.py -type f | xargs rm -rf |
| 17:51.20 | xtrementl | --delete work ? :) |
| 17:57.29 | mindjuju | sounds like this, but not quite so tinny - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQI3MNO-0GA |
| 17:57.32 | mindjuju | bad recording |
| 17:57.56 | mindjuju | 1 chance in 5? |
| 17:58.11 | mindjuju | are they even that good? |
| 17:59.03 | josephscott | $random-number 1 5 |
| 17:59.04 | raifbot | josephscott your number is : 1 |
| 17:59.15 | mindjuju | hmm, maybe he will trust it |
| 17:59.25 | josephscott | $8ball will fungus trust the link? |
| 17:59.25 | raifbot | josephscott - As I see it, yes. |
| 18:00.08 | mindjuju | it's the cure, so it has a lot of weight, on the other hand, i did prank him with the promise of classic Lady Gaga and instead was rebecca black : friday |
| 18:00.11 | mindjuju | so.... |
| 18:11.20 | josephscott | ~say $rlart |
| 18:11.20 | ibot | $rlart |
| 18:11.21 | raifbot | cats /dev/urandom into bhosie's ear. |
| 18:19.05 | fungus | mindjuju, your blacklist entry has not yet expired. |
| 18:19.53 | mindjuju | oh man! |
| 18:19.58 | mindjuju | not even for the cure? |
| 18:20.33 | macnewbold | carmony: i'm down with the open discussion idea - i think wps would appreciate that too |
| 18:20.47 | macnewbold | any other feedback from anyone about that? |
| 18:37.10 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:37.10 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 18:44.46 | mgeary | hey fungus |
| 18:49.46 | fungus | yraegm yeh |
| 18:51.29 | mindjuju | i think mgeary was going to tell you that the link was safe to click on |
| 18:51.36 | fungus | lol |
| 18:51.40 | fungus | but he didn't |
| 19:01.38 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@104.2.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 19:01.38 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v josephscott] by ChanServ |
| 19:06.41 | josephscott | flash on the xoom - http://www.infoworld.com/print/157838 |
| 19:08.42 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (~sdibb@173-165-130-129-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:08.42 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (~sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
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| 19:54.51 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 19:54.51 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:02.29 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
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| 20:02.52 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:02.52 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 20:03.45 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:03.45 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.23 | skinner1 | $lart curiosity |
| 20:04.24 | raifbot | teaches curiosity the basics, including how to RTM. |
| 20:05.44 | *** join/#uphpu bhosie (~bhosie@192.84.171.170) |
| 20:10.01 | *** join/#uphpu mahelious (~mahelious@64.0.29.254.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:12.10 | cedwards | what do you all suggest for avoiding form spam? are hidden fields smart enough for low-traffic pages? |
| 20:13.03 | mindjuju | simple math field seems to be soup du jour |
| 20:13.20 | mindjuju | i'm seeing more and more of that than captcha |
| 20:13.35 | mindjuju | don't think the kitty captcha took off as well :( |
| 20:25.49 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:25.49 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 20:30.21 | *** join/#uphpu pelaofeliz (~pelaofeli@67.137.236.66) |
| 20:34.42 | *** join/#uphpu bhosie_ (~bhosie@192.84.171.170) |
| 20:44.11 | mgeary | ~rlart |
| 20:44.11 | ibot | offers cycokilr some herring |
| 20:45.31 | mgeary | $rlart |
| 20:45.32 | raifbot | stabs skinner1. |
| 20:46.39 | skinner1 | ~rlart raifbot |
| 20:47.08 | skinner1 | ~rlart |
| 20:47.08 | ibot | keeps mailing Dezertol free America Online CDs until he drowns |
| 20:47.25 | Dezertol | lol aol... |
| 20:47.53 | skinner1 | $lart humanity |
| 20:47.53 | raifbot | overclocks humanity until humanity burns out. |
| 20:48.41 | skinner1 | Looks like we might need a better cooling system |
| 20:48.57 | Dezertol | blame globalwarming |
| 21:01.16 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (~jonathan@24-104-129.146.hfc.mediarain.com) |
| 21:01.16 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v SunSparc] by ChanServ |
| 21:01.58 | SunSparc | Does anyone remember the video where the dad tells his kid that "boosting is for noobs"? |
| 21:03.39 | *** join/#uphpu bhosie (~bhosie@192.84.171.170) |
| 21:09.06 | mgeary | $rlart |
| 21:09.06 | raifbot | resizes macnewbold's terminal to 40x24. |
| 21:11.58 | mindjuju | way cool, leaked pictures of the new batman trailer http://i.imgur.com/DX7p7.jpg |
| 21:12.07 | macnewbold | argh |
| 21:12.20 | macnewbold | 80x24 i like, but 40x24 not so happy |
| 21:12.31 | Dezertol | lol |
| 21:12.34 | Dezertol | ok that was funny |
| 21:12.39 | mindjuju | :) |
| 21:12.42 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
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| 21:12.52 | mindjuju | can't stop laughing myself, found it on digg.com |
| 21:13.20 | macnewbold | that's awesome mindjuju |
| 21:13.24 | macnewbold | way better than a rickroll |
| 21:14.30 | josephscott | $rm all rickrolls |
| 21:14.30 | raifbot | opens /dev/null and eliminates all rickrolls forever. |
| 21:20.34 | influx | $rm all the things |
| 21:20.35 | raifbot | opens /dev/null and eliminates all the things forever. |
| 21:23.24 | mgeary | how do you open /dev/null ? |
| 21:23.48 | Dezertol | must more of a symbolic jesture |
| 21:23.51 | josephscott | fopen of course :-) |
| 21:23.54 | Dezertol | lol |
| 21:24.10 | Dezertol | I've never tried to open /dev/null with fopen |
| 21:24.14 | Dezertol | does that even work |
| 21:24.33 | *** join/#uphpu dharmatech (~hayduke@173-165-135-245-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 21:24.39 | josephscott | try fopen( '/dev/null/', 'w' ) |
| 21:24.47 | josephscott | of course |
| 21:24.54 | josephscott | how else do you write to it? |
| 21:25.35 | Dezertol | i've never had to write to it |
| 21:25.49 | Dezertol | so.. i've never tried |
| 21:25.49 | josephscott | cat somefile.txt > /dev/null ? |
| 21:25.55 | Dezertol | I've done that |
| 21:25.59 | Dezertol | but I've never used fopen |
| 21:26.02 | josephscott | that writes to /dev/null |
| 21:26.19 | Dezertol | I know that.. but I've never used fopen in a script to pen /dev/null |
| 21:26.34 | Dezertol | seems pointless in a script |
| 21:35.58 | beandog | man I never thought it'd be so nice having two computers at work |
| 21:36.03 | beandog | forget two monitors. this rocks. |
| 21:39.31 | macnewbold | beandog: what are you running on each of them? |
| 21:39.40 | macnewbold | (besides handbrake) |
| 21:40.06 | beandog | macnewbold: gentoo on one, os x on the other |
| 21:40.42 | *** join/#uphpu bhosie (~bhosie@192.84.171.170) |
| 21:41.03 | beandog | man, godaddy's ui is truly terrible |
| 21:41.24 | macnewbold | nice |
| 21:41.33 | macnewbold | and i agree |
| 21:41.48 | mindjuju | hey beandog |
| 21:41.49 | jsmith | beandog: You think?!? |
| 21:41.49 | mindjuju | sup |
| 21:41.58 | jsmith | mindjuju: Guess what I had for dinner last night :-) |
| 21:42.07 | mindjuju | a sammich?? |
| 21:43.06 | beandog | mindjuju: o hai |
| 21:43.17 | josephscott | beandog: word is that godaddy UI is bad on purpose |
| 21:43.25 | Utah_Dave | beandog: have you tried using Synergy with both of your computers? It's pretty awesome |
| 21:43.41 | mindjuju | hey beandog - leaked pictures of the new batman trailer http://i.imgur.com/DX7p7.jpg |
| 21:44.40 | beandog | Utah_Dave: meh |
| 21:44.46 | beandog | Utah_Dave: I dont mind switching |
| 21:44.55 | beandog | that and I dont feel like setting it up. |
| 21:45.08 | influx | hakuna matata |
| 21:45.53 | Utah_Dave | I had it running for a while when I had a small dev server sitting on my desktop. I liked it better than using a kvm |
| 21:47.12 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@c-67-186-244-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:47.52 | josephscott | synergy is amazon, cut and paste across machines is awesome |
| 21:49.38 | Utah_Dave | yeah, even going from different OS's |
| 21:51.09 | josephscott | just in case you were wondering if there is a new bubble coming - http://kara.allthingsd.com/20110414/exclusive-flipboard-confirms-50-million-funding-at-200-million-valuation/ |
| 21:51.19 | josephscott | $60M in funding so far for an iPad app |
| 21:57.42 | mgeary | bah |
| 21:58.21 | mindjuju | ~give $60mil to mgeary so he'snot so bitter |
| 21:58.21 | ibot | ACTION gives to mgeary so he'snot so bitter to $60mil |
| 21:58.35 | mgeary | give fail |
| 21:59.11 | skinner1 | ~give to mgeary so he'snot so bitter $60mil |
| 21:59.11 | ibot | ACTION gives mgeary so he'snot so bitter $60mil to to |
| 21:59.30 | mgeary | ~give mgeary $60mil so he's not so bitter |
| 21:59.30 | ibot | ACTION gives $60mil so he's not so bitter to mgeary |
| 21:59.33 | mgeary | sigh |
| 21:59.37 | mgeary | ~give up |
| 22:02.15 | skinner1 | $rlart fail |
| 22:02.16 | raifbot | sends a legion of lawyers after synic's head. |
| 22:08.07 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@76.8.223.101) |
| 22:08.07 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 22:08.23 | mindjuju | DtD, what are you listening to over there? |
| 22:10.07 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: been listening to trance in motion the past couple days |
| 22:10.54 | mindjuju | have you ever heard of Odyssey Through Oxygene - Remix of Jean Michel Jarre? |
| 22:11.32 | DexterTheDragon | probably not |
| 22:11.51 | mindjuju | k, i'm packing it up and sending your way |
| 22:12.00 | mindjuju | haven't heard this in years, but it's REALLY good |
| 22:13.44 | mindjuju | if you get to the 3rd song and you still don't like it, then shut it off cause the rest is more of the same |
| 22:16.01 | *** join/#uphpu optikal_ (optikal@failcore.com) |
| 22:18.03 | mindjuju | but aren't you really begging him to bring it up, by bringing it into the chan as opposed to an email or a PM? |
| 22:18.10 | mindjuju | or talking about it over tea and crumpets? |
| 22:18.36 | mgeary | you mean tea and salt n vinegar crisps? |
| 22:18.58 | mgeary | but no, i'm just inviting you all to admire my self-restraint :D |
| 22:19.00 | mindjuju | hmm, i don't think tea and crisps would mix |
| 22:20.15 | mindjuju | alright mgeary, let's hear it |
| 22:20.45 | mindjuju | opine away |
| 22:21.24 | mindjuju | what if he left early, we'll never know what you think |
| 22:21.36 | jsmith | What about the little cucumber sandwiches -- they go together, right? |
| 22:21.55 | mgeary | i had cucumber pudding in Germany once |
| 22:22.21 | mindjuju | who here is artsy - fartsy ? |
| 22:22.35 | mgeary | how do you mean, mindjuju |
| 22:22.37 | mgeary | ? |
| 22:22.46 | herlo | mgeary: supernovia is not here, but she is methinks |
| 22:22.58 | mindjuju | yup supernovia is, but nope, not here |
| 22:22.59 | mindjuju | i checked |
| 22:23.15 | mindjuju | influx digs on art, if i recall correctly |
| 22:24.31 | herlo | mindjuju: true influx is good |
| 22:24.38 | carmony | depends on your definition of artsy-fartsy |
| 22:24.49 | mindjuju | ok mgeary, here goes: blah blah blah, i think they should cut taxes for the rich, blah blah blah tax the poor and blah blah blah |
| 22:25.53 | mindjuju | oh well, i need to get back to APF any way |
| 22:26.58 | mgeary | :) |
| 22:27.03 | carmony | lol |
| 22:27.48 | josephscott | $lart high taxes |
| 22:27.48 | raifbot | slams high taxes against a large cement Tux. |
| 22:28.11 | josephscott | need a $flaimbait command :-) |
| 22:29.08 | carmony | lol, classic Microsft vs Google stuff going on -- http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/9d7p25UIg7g/Groklaw-Microsoft-Cloud-Services-Arent-FISMA-Certified |
| 22:30.27 | skinner1 | $lart fate, life and the universe |
| 22:30.28 | raifbot | resizes fate, life and the universe's terminal to 40x24. |
| 22:30.58 | mgeary | did you know that 50 years ago, the top tax bracket was over 90%? Today it's 35%. Did you know that Warren Buffet, by his own admission, pays about 17.7% in taxes, while his secretary, who earns $60k paid 30% in taxes? |
| 22:31.19 | mgeary | i can't see how the rich are suffering |
| 22:31.55 | carmony | lol |
| 22:31.57 | mgeary | those aren't opinions |
| 22:32.00 | mindjuju | i'm glad you got that all out |
| 22:32.06 | mgeary | just saying |
| 22:32.21 | herlo | mgeary: I've seen that statement, word for word on many a facebook post |
| 22:32.32 | mindjuju | sure, and it even looks like his secretary pays more actual dollars than his secretary, she's paying a whole 35% and all |
| 22:32.36 | herlo | and on many stoopid sites... |
| 22:32.37 | mindjuju | but i'm sure that's not the case |
| 22:33.11 | skinner1 | What's red and smells like blue paint? |
| 22:33.35 | skinner1 | Red paint |
| 22:33.42 | carmony | red paint -- lol, you beat me to it |
| 22:33.45 | mindjuju | rofl |
| 22:33.50 | mgeary | mgeary: i doubt you've seen it word for word, since i just wrote that |
| 22:33.59 | herlo | mgeary: where did you get it? |
| 22:34.03 | mgeary | and it comes from 2 different sources |
| 22:34.09 | mindjuju | mgeary, are you actually refering to yourself in the 3rd person |
| 22:34.12 | mindjuju | right here in #uphpu? |
| 22:34.17 | mgeary | mindjuju: heh. oops |
| 22:34.20 | mindjuju | the mgeary never quotes anybody |
| 22:34.29 | herlo | lol |
| 22:34.38 | mgeary | herlo: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece <-- warren buffet info |
| 22:34.57 | herlo | ahh, yes, I've seen that article |
| 22:34.59 | mindjuju | herlo's right though, i've read that quote and some similar prolly 20x in the last month |
| 22:34.59 | mgeary | the 50-year-ago tax info was mentioned on Marketplace two days ago. i'd have to find a source |
| 22:35.22 | Dezertol | it's a totally pointless argument to have.. anyone with money will put it where it will make the most money |
| 22:35.37 | Dezertol | and if they tax the rich.. they just move it somewhere else |
| 22:35.42 | herlo | Dezertol: I'm not arguing with mgeary :) |
| 22:35.48 | herlo | just curious where he got his source |
| 22:35.55 | Dezertol | if the eais up on the taxes.. the rich dump it back into the economy |
| 22:36.04 | carmony | the problem is that is it hard to tax the top 1% effectively and "clean cut" because of how complex tax law is. The only way to get to them is to raise taxes on things like capital gains, which taxes effects more than the top 1% |
| 22:36.04 | Dezertol | it's not complicated.. |
| 22:36.05 | mgeary | Dezertol: that's not true |
| 22:36.13 | mgeary | Dezertol: source that, if you can |
| 22:36.26 | Dezertol | it's common knowledge |
| 22:36.31 | mgeary | no, it's not |
| 22:36.32 | mgeary | it's a fallacy |
| 22:36.43 | Dezertol | that's why it's a pointless argument |
| 22:36.43 | mgeary | everything i've seen and read indicates that it's the *poor* who dump money right into the economy. the wealthy hang on to it |
| 22:36.55 | mindjuju | how do you know it's a fallacy, mgeary, source yours |
| 22:36.58 | DexterTheDragon | the rich dump it into savings account and offshore banks |
| 22:37.24 | mgeary | mindjuju: you're asking me to prove a negative |
| 22:37.34 | Dezertol | if the taxs are to high to make money in the market they move it to tax free minicipal bonds.. |
| 22:37.41 | Dezertol | when it goes back down the put it back in the market |
| 22:37.45 | mindjuju | yeah, i guess i am, aren't i |
| 22:37.47 | Dezertol | this is common knowledge |
| 22:37.54 | mindjuju | if it works for euclid, then it works for me |
| 22:38.00 | Dezertol | or some other tax shelter |
| 22:38.21 | carmony | here is an example of the problem of trying to tax the very rich: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124329282377252471.html -- not saying I agree with what they did, but it happens. |
| 22:38.23 | mgeary | when the government issues a premature tax rebate to stimulate the economy, the poor spend it right away, since they're living check-to-check. the wealthy just stick it into their accounts and keep doing what they always do |
| 22:38.24 | DexterTheDragon | Dezertol: if they do that when the taxes are high what makes you think they don't do it when taxes are low? |
| 22:38.39 | Dezertol | the return on investment |
| 22:38.45 | Dezertol | if they can make more money in the market they do |
| 22:38.51 | Dezertol | the money is always moving |
| 22:38.55 | Dezertol | some slower then others.. |
| 22:38.57 | Dezertol | but alwasy moving |
| 22:39.26 | mgeary | trickle-down economics is bull. Eight years of Bush should have finally proved that |
| 22:39.31 | Dezertol | that's correct mgeary.. because they see money as employees |
| 22:39.34 | Dezertol | to make other money |
| 22:39.49 | Dezertol | so they put it some place where it can make more money |
| 22:40.13 | Dezertol | the invest it.. buy bonds or even dump it into IRA's |
| 22:40.27 | Dezertol | the "rich" people have figured out that money can make mroe moeny |
| 22:40.39 | Dezertol | so ... they put it to work.. instead of spending it |
| 22:40.58 | Dezertol | and it will go where it will make the most money.. with an adjustment for risk |
| 22:41.47 | mgeary | Dezertol: yeap. all those Bush-era tax cuts sure proved that |
| 22:42.01 | mgeary | look at all the jobs that have been created |
| 22:42.14 | Dezertol | that's all irrevelent.. |
| 22:42.23 | mgeary | huh? |
| 22:42.26 | Dezertol | the money will always go where it can make the most other money |
| 22:42.29 | mgeary | how can you claim that? |
| 22:42.35 | Dezertol | and if that's investing in a start up.. then so be it |
| 22:42.38 | Dezertol | it's risk managment |
| 22:42.55 | Dezertol | over all risk offsets the RIO on any investemnt |
| 22:43.20 | Dezertol | if droping your money into a 4% tax free minicipal bond will return more then the market |
| 22:43.25 | Dezertol | then that's what they do |
| 22:44.05 | josephscott | *cough* flat tax *cough* |
| 22:44.21 | Dezertol | I agree with with flat tax |
| 22:44.26 | mindjuju | so i'm just curious here (plus the argument is running out of steam) but what exactly are we trying to fix mgeary,and how to you propose it get fixed? |
| 22:44.36 | Dezertol | I think it would bring in more money then any otehr system |
| 22:44.48 | mindjuju | cause truth told, all i see is the same bloody quote every article i look, and never the context nor the solution |
| 22:44.58 | mindjuju | maybe, let's see |
| 22:45.02 | Dezertol | there is nothing to fix.. nothing to change.. |
| 22:45.10 | mindjuju | well, i wouldn't say that |
| 22:45.18 | Dezertol | the government is "hurding investors" by threating to tax this or that.. |
| 22:45.25 | Dezertol | money will always go where it will make the most money |
| 22:45.54 | mindjuju | apparently they caymon islands figured out what the rest of us needs to learn, cause that's where it was going |
| 22:46.04 | Dezertol | right.. |
| 22:46.10 | mindjuju | :) |
| 22:46.21 | Dezertol | and most of the wealth... has moved to tennisee |
| 22:46.27 | Dezertol | as there is no state income tax there |
| 22:46.38 | mindjuju | now that is true, that and texas |
| 22:46.49 | mindjuju | poor new york, first time in their history, they've got negative growth |
| 22:46.50 | Dezertol | money will move to where it will make the most money.. it really is that simple |
| 22:47.03 | Dezertol | same kind of problems in cali |
| 22:47.19 | Dezertol | well not most.. but a good number of the billionaries |
| 22:47.41 | carmony | personally, I think the government needs to stop trying to control and manipulate the economy through taxes, and focus on simplifying the taxs |
| 22:47.47 | josephscott | yep, because no one ever moves to California to start a business |
| 22:47.47 | mindjuju | it's much easier to prove that people of wealth are leaving states with higher state tax |
| 22:47.52 | josephscott | oh, wait, yeah they do |
| 22:48.03 | carmony | so they can focus on covereing the costs of running the government instead of manipulate the economy |
| 22:49.08 | mgeary | i suspect that income tax, really, is a low concern for most billionaires, because it's an income tax, not a wealth tax. |
| 22:49.15 | carmony | yeah |
| 22:49.35 | carmony | capital gains is what affects the top 1% more than income tax |
| 22:49.59 | mindjuju | so mgeary, we're you just saying your observations, or were you saying something has to change, and if so what? |
| 22:50.04 | mindjuju | i'm curious |
| 22:50.17 | mgeary | carmony: right. and that's at 15% |
| 22:51.01 | carmony | for long term captial gain, yes |
| 22:52.45 | Dezertol | http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/05/18/escaping-high-taxes/ |
| 22:52.52 | Dezertol | For every day from 1998 through 2007, at least 1,100 people moved from the nine highest income-tax states to the nine no-income tax states. |
| 22:53.15 | Dezertol | During the 1998-2007 period, the no-income tax states created 89% more jobs and had a 32% faster growth in personal income compared to the high-income tax states. |
| 22:53.43 | Dezertol | it's just what it is.. the money will always flow to where it will make the most other money |
| 22:53.54 | Dezertol | sometimes slowly.. but.. it's always moving |
| 22:54.02 | carmony | I think you are going to have to raise the capital gains rates again eventually to keep the government, but hopefully they won't jack them up all the way to the same level as the income tax rate |
| 22:54.29 | mindjuju | and there in lies the problem carmony |
| 22:54.38 | Dezertol | sadly.. it's the socialist idea.. where a govenrment sets a price on anything.. |
| 22:54.53 | Dezertol | there is no way to know all the places and ways it will effect every day life |
| 22:54.54 | carmony | capital gains tax isn't a socialist idea |
| 22:54.57 | mindjuju | who here pours more water into a bucket with holes, just to keep it at the same level |
| 22:55.02 | Dezertol | no it's not |
| 22:55.06 | Dezertol | I just mean.. |
| 22:55.13 | mindjuju | it's not the rate of flow of the water that's the problem |
| 22:55.14 | DexterTheDragon | government setting price isn't a socialist idea |
| 22:55.15 | mindjuju | it's the holes |
| 22:55.35 | Dezertol | that if taxes vary from person to person.. |
| 22:55.45 | Dezertol | money will flow to where it makes the most other money |
| 22:55.57 | mgeary | you know, the "socialist" countries of the world laugh themselves silly at what Americans tend to think is socialist |
| 22:56.17 | mindjuju | @skinner1, nice |
| 22:56.31 | mindjuju | mgeary, we're you getting that from? |
| 22:56.40 | mgeary | mindjuju: having lived in europe |
| 22:56.42 | Dezertol | back during the depression there where only 4 capitalist countries.. |
| 22:56.46 | Dezertol | and today.. |
| 22:56.50 | Dezertol | over 128 |
| 22:57.05 | Dezertol | slowly.. they will all give it up |
| 22:57.11 | mindjuju | does living in a country give us authority to speak for popular opinion though? |
| 22:57.12 | Dezertol | can't control it |
| 22:57.16 | mgeary | mindjuju: so you'd know better than most people that what people here decry as socialism isn't anything like it |
| 22:57.18 | josephscott | I suspect that article meant rate of job growth, not actual job growth numbers |
| 22:57.41 | mindjuju | i mean, did i go around and ask everybody's opinion and then represent it fairly? |
| 22:57.58 | mgeary | the most raging "liberals" in America would rank about middle of the spectrum in most parts of Europe |
| 22:58.07 | josephscott | because I'm pretty sure california creates more jobs than any other state for most years |
| 22:58.12 | josephscott | by raw number |
| 22:58.25 | mgeary | mindjuju: people call "Obamacare" socialism. that's ludicrous |
| 22:58.43 | Dezertol | i agree |
| 22:58.50 | Dezertol | but the plan in general will fail |
| 22:58.50 | mgeary | these are the same people who embrace their medicare, when they qualify for it |
| 22:59.21 | mindjuju | so, what is it you're trying to fix? |
| 22:59.23 | Dezertol | there are a lot of things wrong with the system |
| 22:59.29 | mindjuju | are are you reacting to quotes? |
| 22:59.34 | mgeary | Dezertol: interesting link, but the source for the study doesn't appear to be a very unbiased source |
| 23:00.07 | josephscott | what was classic was watching TV special (frontline I think) that interviewed a few different anti-government, up the hills, military groups - turns out many of their members are on unemployment benefits |
| 23:00.09 | Dezertol | it's a free world.. I know people that have moved there |
| 23:00.12 | Dezertol | for that reason |
| 23:01.03 | josephscott | healthcare is a giant pain |
| 23:01.21 | Dezertol | doesn't matter what people think.. it's like saying.. I'm going to vote that gravity doesn't exist |
| 23:01.28 | josephscott | what people don't realize is that we already pay (the governement does) for the very poor and those without insurance |
| 23:01.31 | Dezertol | money will always go where it will make the most |
| 23:01.43 | mgeary | mindjuju: psh |
| 23:01.48 | mgeary | mindjuju: i live in Utah, amigo |
| 23:01.58 | mindjuju | ah yes, passive agressive |
| 23:02.02 | mindjuju | take it out whilst driving |
| 23:02.11 | mgeary | uh, well, that's not what i meant, but sure |
| 23:02.13 | mindjuju | ...just you try to get in my lane, i dare you! |
| 23:02.37 | mindjuju | i've never seen a state with more aggressive drivers |
| 23:03.00 | carmony | mindjuju: more than california? |
| 23:03.13 | mindjuju | ah, you've got me there, i have 0 road time in cali |
| 23:03.15 | mgeary | i meant that i've got neighbors who drink John Birch and Glen Beck Kool-aid all day long |
| 23:03.23 | mgeary | and bless their hearts, they're good friends of mine |
| 23:03.28 | carmony | lol |
| 23:03.51 | mindjuju | so mgeary, quick question |
| 23:03.59 | mindjuju | you live in a pretty nice part of town, no? |
| 23:04.18 | skinner1 | Ever notice that people who drive faster than you are maniacs, while people who drive slower than you are idiots? |
| 23:04.35 | carmony | lol, I bet you could make a Glen Beck flavor and it'd sell like hotcakes online |
| 23:04.36 | carmony | :P |
| 23:04.38 | skinner1 | At least seems like lots 'o Utahns feel that way |
| 23:05.27 | mindjuju | and these houses, they're not cheap, right, so that means your neighbors have some $$, and that means they've prolly got some school, no? what i'm saying is, maybe they've formed their opinion in the same way yours did, but they came up a little differently than you, maybe they're not sheep as you suspect |
| 23:05.38 | Dezertol | lol well now that he is more or less booted off fox.. |
| 23:05.41 | Dezertol | he'll have to do somehting |
| 23:06.02 | Dezertol | beck that is |
| 23:06.23 | mindjuju | here you and I don't agree on things, but i'm sure you and I invest about the same amount of time researching and forming our own opinion |
| 23:06.40 | mindjuju | the trick is, coming to a compromise and moving forward |
| 23:06.42 | mgeary | mindjuju: i've lived in this neighborhood for 32 years... |
| 23:06.45 | Dezertol | it's totally ok to not agree |
| 23:06.51 | Dezertol | meh.. that's what keeps the world turning |
| 23:06.58 | mindjuju | i disagree with that Dezertol |
| 23:06.59 | Dezertol | and I read boaring crap |
| 23:07.00 | mindjuju | :) |
| 23:07.04 | mindjuju | actually, i do though |
| 23:07.21 | mgeary | i know these people really well |
| 23:07.24 | mindjuju | because the politics from the last 30 years is one law getting enacted, then the next crowd comes in and repeals it because they don't agree |
| 23:07.28 | mindjuju | and back and forth |
| 23:07.34 | Dezertol | http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-4th-Ed-Economy/dp/0465022529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302822445&sr=8-1 |
| 23:07.38 | Dezertol | just finished that |
| 23:07.40 | Dezertol | for example.. |
| 23:08.01 | mindjuju | we've got to come together and start agreeing on something |
| 23:08.04 | mindjuju | and then leave it alone |
| 23:08.10 | mgeary | but the thing is, while we all may spend a commensurate amount of time forming our opinions, i'm afraid i do not believe that the sources that are being consulted to form these opinions are of equal validity/accuracy/etc |
| 23:08.14 | mindjuju | you know, the whole house divided ... |
| 23:08.47 | mindjuju | about the only source that isn't spun these days, is CSPAN, and I don't see anybody quoting them |
| 23:09.10 | mindjuju | (book reviews or newspaper time notwithstanding) |
| 23:09.17 | mgeary | i refuse to believe that someone who is forming their opinions from 6 hours of Sean Hannity and Glen Beck every day has the same legitimacy as someone who uses.....nearly any other source |
| 23:09.24 | Dezertol | ya.. I hate the news channels.. |
| 23:09.31 | Dezertol | you have to really read between the lines |
| 23:09.40 | Dezertol | so much of it is just crap |
| 23:09.45 | mindjuju | mgeary, then where are you getting your news, that it is so pure? |
| 23:10.08 | Dezertol | technically... the FCC classicies all that as "entertainment" |
| 23:10.11 | Dezertol | not news |
| 23:10.12 | josephscott | mindjuju: one note, commentary isn't news reporting |
| 23:10.44 | mindjuju | see what i mean mgeary |
| 23:10.55 | mgeary | well, that's exactly my point |
| 23:10.57 | mindjuju | all news is tainted, some more than others, true, but it's all tainted |
| 23:11.09 | mgeary | but it still serves as a foundation for opinions for many people i know |
| 23:11.13 | josephscott | commentary isn't news |
| 23:11.16 | mindjuju | and yours? |
| 23:11.16 | josephscott | reporting |
| 23:11.22 | mindjuju | where do you get your info from? |
| 23:11.33 | mindjuju | do you see my point? |
| 23:11.53 | josephscott | can news reporting be tainted, yes, of course |
| 23:12.00 | mgeary | mindjuju: do you see mine? |
| 23:12.02 | josephscott | but don't confuse it with something completely different |
| 23:12.11 | mindjuju | of course i do |
| 23:12.20 | mindjuju | i'm not in that party |
| 23:12.35 | josephscott | that is like saying I get apples from an orange tree, no you don't |
| 23:12.37 | mindjuju | i'm conservative, but i don't listen to GB et al |
| 23:13.07 | josephscott | what is a conservative? |
| 23:13.18 | mindjuju | it's like the Coriolis effect, as long as we remain on the object that's being twisted, we're never going to have an appropriate frame of reference |
| 23:13.25 | Dezertol | all the best unbias news is from theonion.com |
| 23:13.45 | mindjuju | i'm on one side and i see the thing skew left, you'r e on the other side, you see it skew right |
| 23:13.52 | mindjuju | whose right? technically we both are |
| 23:14.03 | mindjuju | frame of reference is the the problem |
| 23:14.13 | wps | I've tried listening to Glen Beck before and couldn't understand him. Regardless of what he stands for or wether we would agree on anything, I couldn't even follow his train of thought or the point he was trying to make. |
| 23:14.13 | josephscott | made labels is another |
| 23:14.27 | josephscott | s/made/made up/ |
| 23:14.44 | carmony | daaaaarn it, I broke google analytics when I moved to my new theme |
| 23:14.46 | carmony | sigh |
| 23:15.16 | mindjuju | i think in the end though, mgeary, we're all going to come to the same conclusion, we've got to stop arguing enough to get off this thing |
| 23:15.43 | skinner1 | $lart Murphey's Law |
| 23:15.43 | raifbot | does a little 'renice 20 -u Murphey's Law'. |
| 23:16.01 | carmony | we need to make a utahpol channel |
| 23:16.13 | carmony | where we can discuss politics to our hearts content |
| 23:16.14 | carmony | :P |
| 23:17.36 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110323.gif |
| 23:17.47 | mindjuju | while i can't even suspect who may be pulling the strings, I do know this, these arguments, quotes, "facts", they are all distractions from us getting something done |
| 23:18.12 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: downloading more techno? |
| 23:18.20 | skinner1 | Comic would be funnier if the sphere in the second panel were actually a cube. |
| 23:18.31 | mindjuju | we're just wasting time arguing, and that's too bad, because we're running out of time, i fear |
| 23:18.53 | mindjuju | DtD, that's awesome |
| 23:19.01 | mindjuju | and exactly apropos |
| 23:19.23 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: this is the other one http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110308.gif |
| 23:20.13 | skinner1 | $give mindjuju more time |
| 23:20.43 | skinner1 | ~give mindjuju more time |
| 23:20.44 | ibot | ACTION gives more time to mindjuju |
| 23:20.48 | mindjuju | thx! |
| 23:22.10 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 23:30.32 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@104.2.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 23:30.32 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v josephscott] by ChanServ |
| 23:30.54 | carmony | wow --- http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/14/2237237/Asia-Runs-Out-of-IPv4-Addresses |
| 23:31.32 | Dezertol | huh.. I thought they ran out like 2 years go |
| 23:31.35 | Dezertol | ago |
| 23:32.27 | Dezertol | kinda funny the whole IP thing.. reminds me of Idaho.. when the license plate for your car was your property tax id |
| 23:32.39 | Dezertol | lol they had to change the whole system when people wanted 2 cars |
| 23:32.44 | fungus | no, ARIN handed out the very last of the /8 blocks to the RIR's in February of this year |
| 23:34.07 | fungus | s/ARIN/IANA/ |
| 23:34.47 | Dezertol | huh.. seems longer ago.. then that |
| 23:35.09 | fungus | looks like 2012 really will be the end of the world (IP addresses) |
| 23:35.10 | Dezertol | I haven't been follwing it.. so I'm sure your right |
| 23:35.19 | Dezertol | LOL |
| 23:35.21 | Dezertol | right.. |
| 23:36.25 | fungus | call your ISP now and reserve as many as you possibly can, get a stockpile, keep them next to your guns and ammo. :P |
| 23:36.54 | Dezertol | lol I'll put them in the same file with my certificates for property on the moon |
| 23:48.04 | mindjuju | DtD, did you like those tunes i sent your way? |
| 23:48.41 | carmony | yeah, but it looks like the APNIC burnt through their IPv4s pretty quick |
| 23:49.09 | herlo | whee! |
| 23:49.19 | herlo | carmony: we're out of IPV4 addresses, didn't you hear? |
| 23:49.31 | carmony | the sad thing is I think switching to IPv6 will be more painful than Y2K |
| 23:49.41 | carmony | yet I doubt it'll get much media attention |
| 23:49.59 | herlo | probably |
| 23:51.05 | herlo | carmony: https://twitter.com/#!/IPv4Countdown |
| 23:51.10 | herlo | if you haven't seen it before |
| 23:55.19 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@69.169.155.132.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 23:55.38 | herlo | mindjuju: nice find on the coding joke! |
| 23:55.42 | herlo | http://i.imgur.com/y7Hm9.jpg |
| 23:55.49 | mindjuju | i LOVE that |
| 23:56.00 | herlo | I chuckled |
| 23:56.02 | mindjuju | and those commercial make me rofl everytime i see it |
| 23:56.59 | herlo | the dos equis commercials? |
| 23:57.05 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 23:57.06 | herlo | I've only ever seen one or two. |
| 23:57.14 | herlo | never catch enough to really get it, I guess |
| 23:57.18 | mindjuju | there's about that many |
| 23:57.33 | herlo | from what Jennifer says, there are many more. |
| 23:57.34 | mindjuju | it's just the Machismo that gets me |
