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| 15:44.30 | mindjuju | <whisper>is everybody still sleeping?</whisper> |
| 15:50.57 | eggyknap | I wish. |
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| 16:05.56 | thebigdog | any actionscript gurus in the house looking for some side work? |
| 16:06.30 | mgeary | thebigdog: like what? |
| 16:06.53 | thebigdog | fixing some upload issues with some code |
| 16:07.03 | thebigdog | fixes really and not new stuff |
| 16:08.27 | mgeary | i could take a look at it, if you like |
| 16:09.41 | thebigdog | k i will check and see it is for a friend of mine |
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| 16:19.49 | mindjuju | so i have a question. reading this doomsday article about IPv4, what's the reluctance to change if it is really so pressing? http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linuxconfau-day-three-0 |
| 16:20.46 | josephscott | mindjuju: has your ISP contacted you about switching to IPv6 at work? |
| 16:20.55 | mindjuju | no |
| 16:21.30 | josephscott | yeah, so your ISP doesn't seem to think it is that urgent :-) |
| 16:21.56 | mindjuju | so what is it that they see that reduces the urgency? |
| 16:22.02 | josephscott | most likely, at some point, we'll have to do something. But if you can't get good IPv6 connectivity to start with, kind of hard to do much else |
| 16:22.58 | josephscott | I suppose: are they still making money and can they still sign up new customers |
| 16:24.35 | mindjuju | @josephscott, sorry - twas wrong - http://www.comcast6.net/ |
| 16:25.35 | mindjuju | i guess they are making preps |
| 16:26.08 | josephscott | if they aren't actively pushing it as an account option, then it isn't urgent. |
| 16:26.34 | josephscott | testing is good, but that may also mean they are counting in years before wide spread deployment |
| 16:27.41 | mindjuju | will internal networks need to convert to IPv6 also? |
| 16:28.15 | josephscott | depends on the setup |
| 16:29.05 | josephscott | a switch of this magnitude is quite a bit of work |
| 16:29.34 | mindjuju | maybe it's not a matter of lack of urgency but magnatidue of work |
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| 16:34.04 | josephscott | urgency is when a 60 foot tree falls on your car |
| 16:34.52 | josephscott | if things do really hit a wall, comcast and the like will make it urgent |
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| 16:59.16 | unum | ok, so I have to keep track of pto |
| 17:00.05 | unum | i'm thinking of creating a table which tracks additions and subtractions to pto |
| 17:00.13 | unum | then I can just sum it to get the total |
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| 17:00.50 | unum | I could do a running total in the table and SELECT pto LIMIT 1 ORDER BY date DESC |
| 17:01.13 | unum | hmm I think I like the second idea best |
| 17:07.18 | mindjuju | anybody here used openvpn-als? |
| 17:07.52 | TuxToaster | unum: the advantage to the running total also is if the record contains the date that it was valid, you can easily go back to a specific date to see how much pto was available at that time |
| 17:08.08 | TuxToaster | could do that with either method but the second is definitely simpler |
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| 17:08.47 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: nope, I've used openvpn lightly but not the -als package as far as I know, even then haven't dug into the internals of it much |
| 17:10.01 | SunSparc | Anyone here ever play with Tor? |
| 17:10.27 | thebigdog | aye |
| 17:10.45 | mindjuju | the onion router, TOR? |
| 17:11.29 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 17:12.01 | mindjuju | i've wanted to play with that, but in the end, just setup PFsense and gave expats in China a login (he heh!) |
| 17:12.25 | SunSparc | lol |
| 17:12.45 | SunSparc | I just learned about Tor last night and started playing with it. |
| 17:13.48 | SunSparc | heh |
| 17:14.13 | mindjuju | nice people over there, REAL nice, but that mao was nuts |
| 17:14.54 | mindjuju | @sunsparc, this is sad on so many fronts |
| 17:14.55 | mindjuju | http://gizmodo.com/5745307/did-china-try-to-pass-off-top-gun-as-air-force-footage |
| 17:16.55 | SunSparc | Sad, and yet ridiculously humorous. |
| 17:17.22 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 17:17.46 | thebigdog | oh volleyball! |
| 17:18.28 | mindjuju | that reminds me, did you see that China's extra vehicular walk turned out to be fake |
| 17:18.30 | mindjuju | v sad |
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| 17:26.56 | SunSparc | mindjuju: in space? |
| 17:27.02 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 17:28.05 | mindjuju | they recorded Chinese cosmonaut leaving the vehicle and showed it on tv, but some sleuths examined the vid closely and you can see a few oxygen bubbles, and it's strongly speculated that it was filmed underwater |
| 17:28.24 | SunSparc | You know, it would not take much for the people of China to take over their government. I mean, they have the majority of the people of the world right there in their red country. |
| 17:28.36 | influx | brains |
| 17:28.43 | influx | brains |
| 17:29.02 | SunSparc | mindjuju: Maybe that is how NASA did it with the Apollo program... |
| 17:29.28 | mindjuju | you know, buzz aldrin took a swing at a guy that said that |
| 17:29.36 | mindjuju | like 2yrs ago |
| 17:29.44 | SunSparc | Lol, yeah, I saw that vid. Hilarious. |
| 17:29.47 | SunSparc | And sad |
| 17:29.57 | SunSparc | Sad that people give him so much crap. |
| 17:32.23 | fungus | SunSparc, Tor is pretty cool, but if you are creating a public node take care to understand the risks before flagging yourself as an "exit node" |
| 17:33.15 | SunSparc | Yeah, I am leery about jumping head first into these kinds of things without fully understanding what I am doing. |
| 17:33.43 | fungus | As long as you don't choose to be an exit node, it's not that bad. |
| 17:33.49 | SunSparc | I do not relish the idea of having the FBI show up at my house. |
| 17:34.00 | fungus | The application even lets you control the amount of bandwidth you are willing to donate. |
| 17:34.19 | fungus | FBI won't bug you... unless you are an exit node. |
| 17:34.26 | mindjuju | @fungus, what is the danger of being an exit node? |
| 17:34.56 | fungus | hehe. FBI doing full body cavity searches. :P |
| 17:35.23 | SunSparc | lol |
| 17:35.47 | SunSparc | LOL, the TSA is already checking exit nodes |
| 17:35.50 | fungus | Non exit nodes are fully encrypted and privacy enabled. |
| 17:36.06 | mindjuju | cheap colonoskpy |
| 17:36.08 | mindjuju | sign me up |
| 17:36.11 | fungus | lol |
| 17:36.50 | SunSparc | fungus: This was an interesting read http://cryptome.org/0003/tor-exits-edu.htm |
| 17:37.03 | mindjuju | like i say though, looked cool but in the end, i went pfsense |
| 17:37.10 | mindjuju | ~flip mao |
| 17:37.10 | ibot | ACTION gives mao the .|.. ..|. |
| 17:38.56 | SunSparc | In a way, installing Tor is like knowingly adding your computer to a botnet. |
| 17:41.54 | mindjuju | very cool read |
| 17:44.47 | SunSparc | Scary read: http://calumog.wordpress.com/2009/03/18/why-you-need-balls-of-steel-to-operate-a-tor-exit-node/ |
| 17:45.48 | SunSparc | Without completely know all of the implications as well as your rights, as in the first article, it would be unwise to run an exit node. |
| 17:46.44 | SunSparc | Though there are helpful articles like this: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tips-running-exit-node-minimal-harassment |
| 17:47.00 | SunSparc | Which is blocked by OpenDNS as I just found out. :) |
| 17:52.56 | fungus | hehe, Yeah, "balls of steel" is the best metaphor for an exit node |
| 17:56.16 | thebigdog | esp. out of your house |
| 17:57.00 | DexterTheDragon | Tor needs more exit nodes |
| 17:57.53 | SunSparc | They are probably firewalling the necessary ports though... |
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| 18:21.19 | carmony | I should write a blog post about cachable objects |
| 18:21.25 | carmony | and tips for making them effective |
| 18:22.42 | mgeary | you know, i just cannot bring myself to like The Beatles. I mean, there's a few songs that are fine, but i just really can't stand like 95% of their catalog |
| 18:24.56 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary, I feel precisely the same way. |
| 18:25.27 | PoeticIntensity | a few songs resonate, but .... As musicians, they just happened to be in the right place, in the right time, doing the right thing. |
| 18:25.40 | PoeticIntensity | Ringo barely knows how to play the drums. :) |
| 18:25.51 | mgeary | sad thing is, i have like their entire catalog. They come up in iTunes, and i just can't help skipping past it |
| 18:26.12 | PoeticIntensity | now that's just sad. |
| 18:26.21 | PoeticIntensity | why would you buy hundreds of songs you don't like? |
| 18:26.28 | mgeary | oh, i didn't. they were given to me |
| 18:26.31 | PoeticIntensity | ah. |
| 18:26.33 | mgeary | the discs |
| 18:26.36 | PoeticIntensity | I'd sell em'. |
| 18:26.38 | PoeticIntensity | :-D |
| 18:26.41 | mgeary | and i compulsively rip everything |
| 18:27.28 | PoeticIntensity | yeah, dude.... I couldn't agree more... There are a few songs I'll listen to, but most of em' are mindless repetition - even by today's standards. |
| 18:27.52 | thebigdog | i think that is most popular music |
| 18:28.06 | PoeticIntensity | I can see why they were successful back in the day, but I cannot see why they remain so popular today. |
| 18:28.11 | thebigdog | i have really gotten into the indie music a lot lately |
| 18:30.32 | PoeticIntensity | I'm an audio engineer on the side, so I get to record a lot of indie music... hehe... |
| 18:30.38 | PoeticIntensity | There's a lot of good stuff out there. |
| 18:31.20 | thebigdog | there is a ton of great singers |
| 18:31.24 | thebigdog | that have talent |
| 18:31.43 | SunSparc | You guys all on thesixtyone.com? |
| 18:32.12 | thebigdog | i have beenon it |
| 18:32.33 | SunSparc | Great place to find new music. |
| 18:33.01 | thebigdog | i like to use last.fm to find new stuff too and then queue it up with grooveshark.com |
| 18:33.18 | SunSparc | Other nice tools |
| 18:37.49 | SunSparc | If you are on thesixtyone, let me know, I am always looking to follow other people with tastes in music I enjoy. Networks are a great way to find new music. |
| 18:51.37 | josephscott | $chuck-fact |
| 18:51.38 | raifbot | Chuck Norris can find hay in a needle stack. |
| 18:52.07 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 18:52.48 | SunSparc | Ouch |
| 18:52.49 | macnewbold | $8ball are their bogus chuck-facts out there? |
| 18:52.50 | raifbot | macnewbold - Outlook good. |
| 18:53.46 | SunSparc | ~lart Outlook |
| 18:53.46 | ibot | slams Outlook against a large cement Tux |
| 18:53.52 | SunSparc | ~Outlook |
| 18:53.52 | ibot | hmm... outlook is a bad idea from M$, or better than evolution, but not as good as a well configured mutt, or aka Lookout, or known as Outhouse |
| 18:54.41 | macnewbold | yeah, that proves the 8ball is wrong on this one - outlook is definitely not good |
| 18:55.07 | TuxToaster | wonder if he'll do it again |
| 18:55.11 | TuxToaster | $8ball is your inbox full? |
| 18:55.12 | raifbot | TuxToaster - Outlook not so good. |
| 18:55.15 | TuxToaster | w00t! |
| 18:55.18 | SunSparc | ~jobsify raifbot |
| 18:55.46 | TuxToaster | josephscott: that's twice now we've got it to answer that for an inbox question. :P |
| 18:56.16 | macnewbold | that's great |
| 18:56.29 | josephscott | $8ball are you reading the questions? |
| 18:56.29 | raifbot | josephscott - It is certain. |
| 18:56.49 | TuxToaster | should be a permanent answer. preg_match('/email|inbox'/) { outlook not good } |
| 18:56.50 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 18:58.19 | TuxToaster | back in a bit |
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| 19:00.38 | DexterTheDragon | SunSparc: http://bit.ly/hml3zl |
| 19:01.22 | SunSparc | DexterTheDragon: AWESOME |
| 19:01.52 | SunSparc | I love watching that big ball of gas we orbit. |
| 19:02.46 | SunSparc | Those are some pretty big cme's |
| 19:03.01 | SunSparc | ~larty mindjuju |
| 19:03.04 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:03.42 | mindjuju | ~fetish sunsparc |
| 19:03.49 | SunSparc | a larty should be like a party of larts |
| 19:03.59 | mindjuju | yeah, that would be cool |
| 19:04.03 | mindjuju | like machine gun larts |
| 19:04.06 | SunSparc | hehe |
| 19:04.08 | SunSparc | Yea |
| 19:05.28 | mindjuju | wow, sounds like tron 3 and tron cartoon are in the works along with matrix 4 and matrix 5 and bill and ted's |
| 19:05.42 | mindjuju | i keep saying the 80s were the pinnacle of civilization, nobody believes me |
| 19:05.45 | josephscott | excellent! NOT! |
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| 19:05.54 | mindjuju | http://screenrant.com/tron-uprising-animated-details-robf-93774/ |
| 19:06.01 | mindjuju | http://screenrant.com/matrix-4-5-bill-and-ted-3-keanu-reeves-rob-97796/ |
| 19:06.13 | mindjuju | @josephscott - WORD! |
| 19:06.19 | josephscott | 80s fashion, well, you know |
| 19:06.25 | mindjuju | oh wait, used in that context, that means agreement |
| 19:06.36 | mindjuju | it's true bro |
| 19:06.41 | mindjuju | we've gone downhill since then |
| 19:10.30 | josephscott | the biggest problem with 80s music is that they stopped making it 20 years ago |
| 19:10.42 | mindjuju | v true |
| 19:10.52 | mindjuju | i'm listening to InfoSoc right now |
| 19:11.10 | josephscott | InSoc, best music to hack to, ever |
| 19:11.17 | carmony | have you guys read this dialog about REST before? http://tomayko.com/writings/rest-to-my-wife |
| 19:12.30 | josephscott | tired of REST fights about as much as I am of GPL fights |
| 19:12.44 | carmony | hehe |
| 19:12.46 | josephscott | most people only do partial implementations of REST |
| 19:12.51 | carmony | yeah |
| 19:12.59 | carmony | http://www.slideshare.net/Wombert/designing-http-interfaces-and-restful-web-services-phpbnl11-20110128 |
| 19:13.03 | josephscott | and then tell people to ignore the non-REST behind the curtain |
| 19:13.04 | carmony | I checked out that slideshow |
| 19:13.26 | josephscott | and different people have different arguments for rest, half of which don't make much sense |
| 19:13.44 | josephscott | so I just tell people, give a good, easy to use HTTP based API |
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| 19:14.27 | josephscott | and if I can't run a test request against your API using curl after just a few minutes of reading, then you've made it too complex |
| 19:14.34 | carmony | yeah |
| 19:15.03 | josephscott | that allows me to by pass the, but, but, but, REST! |
| 19:15.10 | josephscott | that people end up spouting |
| 19:15.31 | josephscott | I don't really care if you use the PUT and DELETE verbs |
| 19:16.00 | josephscott | I can get by just fine on POST and GET with JSON data, even though that makes it not pure REST |
| 19:16.08 | josephscott | and I'm fine with that :-) |
| 19:16.52 | carmony | yeah, in that slideshow the guy says that RESTful interfaces are not appropriate for all situations, and that its fine, just don't call it RESTful |
| 19:16.53 | carmony | :P |
| 19:17.47 | josephscott | good luck, the buzzwords are too hard for most people to resist |
| 19:17.57 | carmony | yeah |
| 19:18.37 | josephscott | simple HTTP based APIs <- that is what I like |
| 19:18.48 | carmony | me too |
| 19:18.52 | josephscott | don't really care if it is "REST" or not, in the strictest terms |
| 19:19.03 | mindjuju | whopper <- that is what i like |
| 19:19.20 | mindjuju | oh and chicken wings |
| 19:19.35 | josephscott | $8ball will people ever get over their REST fights? |
| 19:19.35 | raifbot | josephscott - Better not tell you now. |
| 19:19.47 | josephscott | yeah, good idea, best to let me cool down a bit first :-) |
| 19:21.09 | josephscott | people are arguing over rest while we still have people writing new code to use soap |
| 19:21.25 | mindjuju | what's the world coming to? |
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| 19:31.13 | carmony | I think RESTful web services is like Nirvana :P Its a goal of this perfect state for web services, and but every "RESTful" implementation seems to fall short, and everyone is saying "That Web Service isn't truly RESTful" |
| 19:46.31 | beandog | REST is win. |
| 19:47.16 | beandog | I like it, therefore its technological flaws are irrelevant. |
| 19:51.20 | beandog | carmony, what kinda implementations you talking about |
| 19:51.42 | macnewbold | ~google skullcandy ipo |
| 19:52.00 | macnewbold | $google skullcandy ipo |
| 19:52.00 | raifbot | macnewbold searching http://www.google.com/search?q=skullcandy+ipo -- http://webcast.ey.com/thoughtcenter/default.aspx%3Fseriesunid%3D%257B73ae3b1f-9c74-4ec3-9793-165937ce88bc%257D%26action%3Dlistseries -- http://www.dhgate.com/1pcs-in-stock-skullcandy-double-agent-wireless/p-ff8080812bb2d813012bca3b41523b1b.html -- http://www.dhgate.com/hot-sell-skullcandy-lowrider-dj-headphone/p-ff8080812af05c48012af76338284f37.html |
| 19:52.13 | macnewbold | apparently ibot's got a braincramp or something for googling |
| 19:52.36 | carmony | haha, got stock in skullcandy macnewbold ? |
| 19:53.07 | macnewbold | just options that aren't vested yet |
| 19:55.24 | josephscott | nice |
| 20:01.59 | macnewbold | apparently they vest 25% at 1 year, and ~2%/month to fully vested at 4 years |
| 20:02.15 | macnewbold | it will be interesting to know what they'll be worth... |
| 20:06.22 | josephscott | that vest rate is pretty common |
| 20:06.35 | fungus | egrep '[aeiou]{5}' /usr/share/dict/words |
| 20:06.48 | fungus | http://xkcd.com/853/ |
| 20:06.50 | macnewbold | yeah, makes sense |
| 20:10.45 | TuxToaster | nice |
| 20:10.54 | beandog | Guauaenok |
| 20:11.20 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:11.54 | beandog | http://twitter.com/#!/DeathStarPR |
| 20:12.03 | beandog | Nothing says "responsible" like letting the 8 y.o. kid you took from his mum fly an advanced spaceship into an epic space battle. |
| 20:12.53 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: Skullcandy should really come up with some more phone-compatible headphones, IMO :-) |
| 20:12.57 | *** join/#uphpu cro (~cro@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com) |
| 20:13.21 | TuxToaster | at least what I've seen there aren't very many with integrated buttons/volume controls/etc... unless I missed something. |
| 20:14.14 | macnewbold | TuxToaster: most of the popular ones come with mic and at least play/pause/answer/hangup/skip-forward/skip-back |
| 20:14.19 | josephscott | $lart the deathstar |
| 20:14.19 | raifbot | offers the deathstar some herring. |
| 20:14.29 | macnewbold | some have a mic3 which adds vol up and vol down |
| 20:14.47 | mgeary | well shoot |
| 20:14.52 | macnewbold | there are with/without mic options in most product lines though |
| 20:15.17 | macnewbold | i've used icons, GIs, for that, and a lot of the earbuds are sweet with phones |
| 20:15.21 | mgeary | Netflix just sent me Back to the Future parts II and III, but somehow part I was put after them in priority. I can't show my kids 2 or 3 without them first seeing 1... |
| 20:15.41 | beandog | mgeary, what kind of a parent are you, showing them part 2? |
| 20:15.44 | beandog | that movie was horrible. |
| 20:15.45 | macnewbold | mgeary: are they on instant watch right now? i thought they used to be. |
| 20:15.46 | mgeary | hahahaha |
| 20:15.50 | mgeary | no, they're not, macnewbold |
| 20:15.53 | macnewbold | bah |
| 20:16.02 | macnewbold | public library to check out part 1 :) |
| 20:16.05 | macnewbold | free for a week |
| 20:16.09 | mgeary | beandog: maybe we'll watch Teenwolf while we're waiting |
| 20:16.22 | macnewbold | ~teenwolf++ |
| 20:16.30 | beandog | heh |
| 20:16.38 | beandog | 80s movies ftw |
| 20:17.09 | macnewbold | just make sure the kids know that van surfing is totally off limits as are keggers, jello wrestling, and party games that involve two people in a closet |
| 20:17.30 | beandog | macnewbold is such a buzzkill |
| 20:17.44 | beandog | I van surf to work |
| 20:17.45 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:17.46 | macnewbold | yeah, takes out so many of the fun parts |
| 20:18.04 | macnewbold | we used to "surf" in the aisle of the school bus until the driver caught us again |
| 20:18.10 | macnewbold | wait a minute or two, then start again |
| 20:18.17 | macnewbold | not quite as fun as being on top, but safer |
| 20:18.52 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: hmm, I'll have to look at the options then, I was looking at the Titans and a couple others, just didn't seem immediately obvious to me that inline mics were an option |
| 20:19.47 | macnewbold | TuxToaster: for buds, check 50/50s, FMJ, or holua |
| 20:19.57 | macnewbold | though there are some ink'd that have the mic's too |
| 20:20.08 | macnewbold | 50/50s are hugely popular though |
| 20:20.29 | macnewbold | on the site if you search mic it pulls up a bunch |
| 20:21.24 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: sounds good |
| 20:26.39 | *** join/#uphpu redroy (~Adium@67.137.120.26) |
| 20:32.50 | thebigdog | man my skullcandy is all messed up...think the wires broke somewhere |
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| 20:36.05 | TuxToaster | thebigdog: lifetime warranty ftw! :-) |
| 20:36.12 | thebigdog | oh they do |
| 20:38.29 | TuxToaster | yup yup |
| 20:42.55 | macnewbold | yeah, totally - lifetime warranty, pretty easy to do |
| 20:57.09 | ninnypants | man the new SublimeText is awesome http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-public-alpha |
| 21:24.51 | josephscott | what in the world is the "Utah Video Service Tax"?! |
| 21:24.59 | josephscott | 2.82 per month |
| 21:25.21 | ninnypants | never even heard of it |
| 21:25.54 | ninnypants | could it be for your cable service? |
| 21:26.30 | josephscott | yep, it showed up on my directv bil |
| 21:26.32 | josephscott | bill |
| 21:27.01 | josephscott | makes for a tax of roughly 5% |
| 21:27.42 | ninnypants | wow |
| 21:28.24 | fungus | Yeah, the video tax has been around for a while. |
| 21:28.30 | josephscott | I'm not sure if I just missed it or what, I don't recall ever having seen it before |
| 21:37.38 | *** join/#uphpu undertakingyou (~will@67.214.250.163) |
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| 21:38.34 | josephscott | want! http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/just-time-spring-break-water-powered-jetpack-finally-goes-sale |
| 21:43.02 | TuxToaster | wow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65fHnVcCNRs |
| 21:55.22 | undertakingyou | Not sure if anyone uses PDO, I have a fairly long join statement that takes no time on a mysql-client, but takes one and a half minutes on my PDO execute. Anything thoughts? http://codepad.org/Y3WrfVs3 |
| 21:57.37 | josephscott | undertakingyou: prepare is probably making multiple requests to the server for your query |
| 21:57.52 | josephscott | prepare is generally a downer performance wise |
| 21:58.13 | josephscott | unless you are doing the same exact type of query in a tight loop |
| 21:58.45 | undertakingyou | josephscott: ok, I see what you are saying. I know how to just exec(), but can I fetch results when doing that? |
| 21:59.03 | josephscott | PDO doesn't require use of prepare |
| 21:59.53 | josephscott | you probably want pdo::query |
| 21:59.53 | undertakingyou | so use query instead and then fetch that result set? |
| 22:00.05 | josephscott | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/pdo.query.php |
| 22:00.08 | josephscott | has an example |
| 22:00.51 | undertakingyou | I was just reading that :) |
| 22:06.05 | josephscott | I assume this is the law allowing for the utah video tax - http://law.justia.com/utah/codes/2006/title59/59_19004.html |
| 22:08.24 | josephscott | http://le.utah.gov/~2006/bills/sbillint/sb0032.htm |
| 22:09.10 | undertakingyou | shoot, even not using prepare it takes one and a half minutes or more. |
| 22:12.22 | josephscott | odd |
| 22:12.36 | josephscott | overhead for PDO vs. direct mysql query should be fairly small |
| 22:12.58 | TuxToaster | undertakingyou: exact same query (same column order, etc) ? |
| 22:13.05 | josephscott | and you are comparing this to calling the mysql functions in PHP? |
| 22:13.08 | TuxToaster | and how big is the result set you're dealing with? |
| 22:13.18 | TuxToaster | (what he said too) |
| 22:13.28 | undertakingyou | result set is one row. |
| 22:14.45 | undertakingyou | I just found something interesting. If I query for with a new where parameter, such as where case_number = '1' to where case_number = '2', the query takes just as long at the mysql-client. |
| 22:14.55 | undertakingyou | Seems it is my query, maybe to many joins? |
| 22:15.17 | TuxToaster | try an EXPLAIN on it |
| 22:15.59 | TuxToaster | internally, MySQL will optimize the query based on a few conditions, if it's using a WHERE clause it will be more optimal as it may not need to scan the entire table to get the results |
| 22:15.59 | SunSparc | Did you all see this: http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Star_Trek/1_Original_Series/Star_Trek_Pitch.pdf |
| 22:18.13 | ninnypants | josephscott: seems like a really pointless tax |
| 22:18.14 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: awesome |
| 22:18.31 | SunSparc | :) |
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| 22:28.24 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
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| 22:28.34 | undertakingyou | So I did the Explain, that is pretty sweet, haven't seen that tool. The output is http://codepad.org/e8tF8x2J, basically, it has to search to much to get the stuff that I need. Is that right? |
| 22:28.34 | carmony | josephscott: http://www.justincarmony.com/blog/2011/01/28/php-restful-web-services-and-nirvana/ |
| 22:28.35 | carmony | :P |
| 22:28.45 | josephscott | already reading it :) |
| 22:29.52 | TuxToaster | undertakingyou: EXPLAIN is your best friend in terms of building database queries and diagnosing issues |
| 22:30.27 | undertakingyou | So, do I understand that I am joining to much, and should break it down more. |
| 22:30.36 | TuxToaster | the issues with your query have a lot to do with indexing actually |
| 22:30.53 | josephscott | carmony: in many cases I'm inclined that no one but the client or the server should cache API data/details |
| 22:30.58 | TuxToaster | joining isn't bad, if you're joining on specific relationships that effectively narrow down the results |
| 22:31.24 | josephscott | having 3rd parties (like proxies) control caching in some times unpredictable ways that neither the server nor the client can easily change can be scary |
| 22:31.31 | TuxToaster | in the explain output.... the possible_keys and key columns tell you what possible index keys match the query, and the key column tells you which key is being used |
| 22:32.05 | TuxToaster | since so many of them are NULL (not using an index), that's going to severely affect performance, especially when each table has a thousand or more rows |
| 22:32.08 | josephscott | for those cases, having just about everything go over HTTP POST is not only ok, it is desirable |
| 22:32.48 | undertakingyou | ok, so if I index the particular column, then it would use that as a key, thus narrowing my where statement stuff. |
| 22:33.11 | TuxToaster | undertakingyou: you could cut down on the joins possibly... BUT if you already have a schema in place and need that data, it would make more sense for you to index first |
| 22:33.21 | TuxToaster | yeep, let me give you an example really quick |
| 22:34.05 | TuxToaster | on your hair_instructions table (and several others) it looks like you're comparing on case_number |
| 22:34.25 | TuxToaster | so for one you'll want to index case_number on those tables |
| 22:35.01 | TuxToaster | also though, looking at your query again, you need to make better use of the JOIN statement, it looks like you're doing it all in one big conditional |
| 22:38.11 | beandog | DexterTheDragon, man, I watched it explode live in school .. I was 9 ... freek :T |
| 22:38.38 | TuxToaster | undertakingyou: http://pastie.org/1507421 I just used shorthand aliases (d, dc, cli, etc) for the table names but hopefully that will help |
| 22:38.40 | undertakingyou | I am going to index case_number on everything. I am not a mysql guru, every other way I tried joining gave me errors. |
| 22:38.52 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (~thebigdog@dsl093-228-015.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 22:38.59 | DexterTheDragon | beandog: what a way to traumatize children |
| 22:39.16 | TuxToaster | it's cleaner to join each table specifically on the condition you're after, and then it doesn't have to buffer all of those joins and try to find a one-size-fits-all match |
| 22:39.26 | beandog | DexterTheDragon, heh, yah. I think the whole school was watching it. Sad times. |
| 22:39.52 | TuxToaster | undertakingyou: yeah, you should be fine to index that column on each table. The general idea is you want an index on any column you'd be searching on |
| 22:41.40 | undertakingyou | right, and case_number is the big one. ALso, I see what you mean on the one big conditional. I am using a ton of join statements there. |
| 22:42.06 | TuxToaster | well, yes and no :-) |
| 22:42.13 | TuxToaster | you're using a ton of tables, in one join statement |
| 22:42.14 | TuxToaster | hehe |
| 22:42.44 | TuxToaster | typically you join each table once, i.e. JOIN death_certificates dc ON dc.case_number = decendants.case_number |
| 22:43.06 | TuxToaster | so that as MySQL goes through the query, it can fetch just the rows that are relevant to that case |
| 22:43.14 | TuxToaster | did you see the pastie I sent above? |
| 22:43.48 | TuxToaster | http://pastie.org/1507421 <-- something like this. You don't *have* to use the aliases, it's just quicker if you're not wanting to type out the full table name for each condition |
| 22:43.52 | TuxToaster | entirely up to you |
| 22:46.08 | DexterTheDragon | carmony's blog post just killed a hipster |
| 22:46.19 | carmony | lol, why is that? ;) |
| 22:46.50 | DexterTheDragon | you realize its "Smells like teen spirit", not "Smells like team spirit"? |
| 22:51.52 | undertakingyou | TuxToaster: sorry, I meant to say and, not join. :) |
| 22:52.20 | undertakingyou | Once I index the table is that an auto index from there forward, or do I have to periodically index it? |
| 22:56.36 | TuxToaster | it's pretty much automatic. |
| 22:57.04 | TuxToaster | you can rebuild if there are problems, etc. but that's the exception, not the rule. :-) |
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| 23:08.04 | beandog | We can rebuild him ... |
| 23:18.44 | undertakingyou | :), those two things really spead up that query, that is awesome, thanks. |
| 23:21.54 | TuxToaster | yep |
| 23:22.28 | TuxToaster | undertakingyou: if you run into any other issues, definitely check EXPLAIN. |
| 23:22.47 | TuxToaster | you want to make sure that the key column lists an index for any of the joins you are doing |
| 23:23.05 | macnewbold | undertakingyou: greetings! Good to see you |
| 23:23.17 | undertakingyou | macnewbold: you to man. How are you |
| 23:23.43 | TuxToaster | and you want to look at the last column, should usually say "Using where, using index" etc. If it says "using filesort, using temporary" those are not so good, and will usually take a performance hit. |
| 23:23.45 | undertakingyou | TuxToaster: yeah, super tool that explain. I will use that again. Wow, went from 1 min 26.4 sec to .1 sec on queries. Awesome. |
| 23:23.58 | TuxToaster | heh yup. |
| 23:24.21 | TuxToaster | no matter what anyone tells you, it's not normal for most any query to take more than a few seconds. |
| 23:24.46 | josephscott | TuxToaster: oh how I wish that was true :-) |
| 23:25.02 | TuxToaster | I knew a guy once that was happy with a query that was down to 5-10 minutes to run. After optimization the same queries ran in .5 sec. |
| 23:25.20 | josephscott | in principle I agree |
| 23:25.26 | TuxToaster | josephscott: in general it should be. I know there are some heavier things that don't follow it though. :-) |
| 23:25.29 | josephscott | sometimes it takes quite a bit of work though |
| 23:25.36 | TuxToaster | yup yup |
| 23:25.46 | TuxToaster | or if you're dealing with a huge db, etc. |
| 23:26.59 | TuxToaster | brb |
| 23:27.05 | undertakingyou | my largest table has only 45000 entries. No query should take more than a couple seconds at most. |
| 23:29.16 | thebigdog | mindjuju: you there? |
| 23:30.57 | macnewbold | mindjuju is probably at class |
| 23:31.11 | thebigdog | figures |
| 23:31.13 | mindjuju | no class on friday |
| 23:31.23 | mindjuju | i'm here for about 10 minutes, then got to go set up something |
| 23:31.26 | mindjuju | what up? |
| 23:31.51 | thebigdog | mindjuju: http://www.thesixtyone.com/s/qt4KuIMjiiW/ for you |
| 23:32.00 | josephscott | undertakingyou: anything near or over a second is probably doing something wrong, very small data set should respond very quickly |
| 23:33.04 | mindjuju | nice tunes thebigdog |
| 23:34.00 | SunSparc | Nice to see a T61 link in here :) |
| 23:35.05 | SunSparc | thebigdog: Just so you know, they have an old/alternate interface that I actually use more often: old.thesixtyone.com |
| 23:35.30 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 23:35.35 | thebigdog | let me check it out |
| 23:37.35 | SunSparc | thebigdog: btw that trance song is pretty tasty |
| 23:37.41 | SunSparc | Later allz! |
| 23:37.46 | thebigdog | later |
| 23:38.45 | mindjuju | anybody seen the green hornet ? |
| 23:38.48 | mindjuju | or true grit |
| 23:42.27 | thebigdog | i have not seen either |
| 23:56.24 | *** part/#uphpu undertakingyou (~will@67.214.250.163) |