| 00:02.23 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 15:36.22 | *** join/#uphpu ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 15:36.23 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 15:36.23 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v ibot] by ChanServ |
| 15:48.34 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 15:48.34 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 15:53.16 | josephscott | carmony: iphone 4 - it's a love / hate thing - http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100712/consumer-reports-by-the-way-the-iphone-4-is-also-the-best-smartphone-on-the-market/ :-) |
| 15:53.31 | carmony | haha |
| 15:53.52 | josephscott | can't recommend it, but it's the best one we've tested so far |
| 15:54.52 | carmony | heh, what does that say about the other phones? |
| 15:54.52 | carmony | :P |
| 15:55.18 | josephscott | great cell signal, crummy user experience ;-) |
| 15:56.39 | carmony | haha |
| 16:01.11 | beandog | bleh |
| 16:01.15 | beandog | there's no easy way to backup databases. |
| 16:01.40 | josephscott | beandog: tables too big? |
| 16:01.52 | beandog | josephscott, sorry, I meant on a regular schedule |
| 16:02.06 | josephscott | cron? |
| 16:02.22 | beandog | bleh |
| 16:02.23 | beandog | n/m |
| 16:02.26 | beandog | Im too tired to even complain |
| 16:02.26 | beandog | :) |
| 16:02.37 | josephscott | :-) |
| 16:07.57 | mgeary | i hear you. I've got a DB table with something like 27 million rows, it's like 11 gigs, and it's nearly impossible to backup, because it takes so long and locks the system up. I haven't gotten to it yet, but i think the only realistic approach is to set up a slave DB and run my backups on it |
| 16:11.24 | josephscott | mgeary: slave for backups is a good idea |
| 16:11.41 | beandog | yah, thats what Im gonna do at work |
| 16:11.43 | josephscott | also look at file system snapshots instead of traditional DB backup tools |
| 16:11.55 | mgeary | yeah, that too, though you need to make sure the DB is stopped in that case |
| 16:12.04 | beandog | well, Im using pg_dumpall |
| 16:12.06 | beandog | that makes life easier. |
| 16:12.10 | josephscott | snapshots are generally much faster, and on a slave you can pause activity and lock everything to make sure it is consistent |
| 16:12.14 | josephscott | which makes restoring much easier |
| 16:12.21 | mgeary | i wish i was more comfortable with pg |
| 16:12.37 | josephscott | postgresql handles concurrent activity much better in general |
| 16:13.13 | josephscott | for really large data sets, lower level fs operations (like snapshots) still tend to be faster though |
| 16:13.25 | justingiboney | why not have a duplicate db that copies close to real time as opposed to trying to do large backups |
| 16:13.57 | josephscott | justingiboney: unless you are intentionally delaying replication by days it doesn't help when you've deleted something you shouldn't |
| 16:14.15 | mgeary | yeah, though that's when binary logs can be a lifesaver :) |
| 16:14.19 | mgeary | been there, done that |
| 16:14.35 | justingiboney | josephscott: the problem is deleting anything in the first place |
| 16:14.41 | josephscott | and some places do that, they have a tiered replication system |
| 16:15.06 | josephscott | with one level being immediate, and another level hours behind, as well backups |
| 16:15.32 | josephscott | justingiboney: why is deleting a problem? other than it killing replication occasionally :-) |
| 16:15.53 | josephscott | mysql replication is getting better, but it's still easy to crush the single threaded replication model right now |
| 16:16.44 | justingiboney | josephscott: the only thing that deletion gives you is physical space. Since physical space is cheap, it is usually a better option to flag as out-of-date or something like that |
| 16:17.34 | josephscott | oh, as a service scheme, in general yes, just mark is as deleted. there are times where you do actually have to delete things though, DMCA notices come to mind |
| 16:19.16 | justingiboney | haven't had one of those =) |
| 16:23.08 | mgeary | in a complex application, marking something as deleted requires a lot of supporting code. when possible, i certainly prefer deleting to flagging |
| 16:24.48 | justingiboney | ya there has to be some weighting of how much damage an acidental deletion will cause over how much the supporting code will cost |
| 16:29.34 | josephscott | agreed, highly application dependent. For instance, do you need to support user activated undo? |
| 17:01.32 | macnewbold | ~seen utahcon |
| 17:01.34 | ibot | utahcon is currently on #uphpu, last said: 'oddly not the 40% I though I missed :D'. |
| 17:01.53 | macnewbold | ~seen mindjuju |
| 17:01.53 | ibot | mindjuju is currently on #utah #uphpu, last said: 'http://www.zazzle.com/saloon_doors_for_your_cubicle_poster-228923862321337766'. |
| 17:02.42 | macnewbold | mindjuju: who were the presenters that were already arranged? Particularly, who was it for July? |
| 17:02.48 | macnewbold | i need to get the announcement out... |
| 17:14.31 | macnewbold | carmony: are you presenting a little something on thursday as well? |
| 17:14.59 | carmony | hey |
| 17:15.06 | macnewbold | sup |
| 17:15.34 | carmony | I thought utahcon was going to do the beginners presentation for July, let me see. |
| 17:15.42 | macnewbold | cool |
| 17:15.46 | macnewbold | i've been trying to find him too |
| 17:15.57 | macnewbold | do you know who's doing the main presentation? |
| 17:16.13 | carmony | hrm.... I don't |
| 17:19.46 | fungus | utahcon, is in FL all week |
| 17:23.44 | justingiboney | so I am working on a label program and I thought I was smart to use white text as spacers, then I found out it prints out of Safari. Anyone come across this before? |
| 17:26.15 | mgeary | what do you mean, "it prints out of Safari" ? |
| 17:26.27 | justingiboney | the white text prints on a white background |
| 17:26.48 | mgeary | and that's not what you want..? |
| 17:27.00 | justingiboney | correct |
| 17:27.07 | mgeary | instead you want...? |
| 17:27.16 | justingiboney | the white text not to print |
| 17:27.23 | justingiboney | since it is white |
| 17:27.59 | mgeary | ah, well, i guess that makes sense |
| 17:28.30 | justingiboney | it prints gray |
| 17:28.43 | mgeary | well, i'm guessing you'll probably need to use markup rather than text for spacing |
| 17:30.30 | macnewbold | fungus: oh, i guess he's not presenting then |
| 17:30.34 | macnewbold | any other ideas carmony? |
| 17:31.01 | carmony | lol, I can present then |
| 17:31.19 | macnewbold | k |
| 17:31.56 | macnewbold | k, now to find mindjuju and find out who the main presentation is |
| 17:32.11 | macnewbold | has he started his new gig yet? i wonder how it's going. |
| 17:42.27 | mgeary | anyone here have a Blackberry Curve? |
| 17:42.36 | mgeary | i'm trying to provide some over-the-phone support on setting up an email account |
| 17:45.16 | fungus | I used to have an 8820, but that was b4 iPhone |
| 17:45.32 | fungus | Setting up personal email accounts was a nightmare |
| 17:45.41 | macnewbold | aha, found it - Ryan Steward of Adobe on flex + PHP |
| 17:46.19 | *** topic/#UPHPU by macnewbold -> Meeting Thursday - Ryan Stewart (Adobe) on flex+PHP - 7pm at CODE GREENE (not Bill Good in Draper) - Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 17:46.44 | macnewbold | don't forget - new location this thursday - see http://www.codegreene.com/hireus_map.php for map etc. |
| 17:46.54 | macnewbold | and the email i just sent to the list... |
| 17:48.20 | beandog | yay |
| 17:52.19 | beandog | its a bit of a drive from there to Applebees |
| 17:54.10 | beandog | we can all go eat at macnewbold's house :D |
| 18:07.09 | mgeary | maybe. Do you have Froot Loops at your house, macnewbold ? |
| 18:12.55 | *** join/#uphpu ninnypants (~ninnypant@69.169.155.194.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 19:02.21 | herlo | macnewbold: I will see if I can make this Thursday night's meet |
| 19:03.13 | herlo | if so, I can bring equipment and record the session. I'll show you how to use it and you can hang on to it for the foreseeable future |
| 19:03.44 | herlo | maybe we can get a volunteer to edit and post the recordings too :) |
| 19:13.44 | mgeary | anyone here a big Ubuntu user? |
| 19:14.08 | mgeary | i'm wondering how big a deal it is to downgrade the default php5.3 on a machine to 5.2.x |
| 19:22.10 | Utah_Dave | mgeary: It's definitely easier to stick with whatever is in the repos. |
| 19:22.39 | mgeary | so, you're saying it's a big-ish deal..? |
| 19:22.54 | mgeary | is there not a repo for 5.2 that i can install? |
| 19:23.27 | Utah_Dave | There might be. On Launchpad there are a lot of private repos that you can add. Somebody might have one on there. |
| 19:23.43 | Utah_Dave | It's not a HUGE deal. I think you would basically uninstall php5.2 with apt |
| 19:24.03 | Utah_Dave | I mean, php5.3 |
| 19:24.29 | Utah_Dave | and then get the source or installer tarball for php5.2 (and hope all dependencies are already met.) |
| 19:24.57 | mgeary | that seems potentially fraught with issues |
| 19:25.12 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, that's why I try to always stick with what's in the repos |
| 19:25.19 | mgeary | ~php5.3-- |
| 19:25.30 | Utah_Dave | what don't you like about 5.3? |
| 19:26.42 | mgeary | i've set up a new server and am migrating a client's server over. They have a number of WP installs and Cake, and in 5.3 i get all kinds of Deprecated warnings, which are fine, except that these apps have local code that sets error_reporting in a way that these warnings get through |
| 19:26.55 | mgeary | and upgrading the WP and/or Cake infrastructure isn't in scope |
| 19:27.06 | mgeary | and i don't like modifying the actual WP and Cake code, though that's what i'm now doing |
| 19:27.24 | Utah_Dave | how about turning off error display? and send it to logs instead? |
| 19:27.40 | mgeary | maybe |
| 19:28.15 | Utah_Dave | You might try uninstalling php and installing the one you want. It might not be too bad |
| 19:29.00 | Utah_Dave | I guess apt can do it, too. |
| 19:29.01 | Utah_Dave | http://serverfault.com/questions/138209/php-5-2x-on-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx |
| 19:30.28 | Utah_Dave | This might do it, too. http://mrkandy.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/install-php-5-2-x-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid/ |
| 19:32.54 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Timothy@68.143.2.178.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 19:32.54 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 19:36.03 | mgeary | cool, thanks |
| 19:38.17 | *** join/#uphpu mitchmorby (~Adium@166-70-210-180.ip.xmission.com) |
| 19:47.36 | macnewbold | herlo: thanks! |
| 19:51.35 | macnewbold | mgeary: taking your chances on the froot loops at my place - we've got 7 kids at home atm, so they go quick |
| 19:52.11 | tierra | I like the new location for meetings. It's within walking distance of my house |
| 19:52.14 | macnewbold | herlo: if you can't make the meeting and want me to meet up with you to get equiment and training, i can do that too |
| 19:52.17 | macnewbold | tierra: awesome! |
| 19:53.08 | tierra | out of curiosity though, will there be free parking in the garage for the meetings? |
| 19:53.19 | macnewbold | sort of |
| 19:53.23 | macnewbold | officially, no |
| 19:53.30 | macnewbold | there are free meters on the street after 6, |
| 19:53.37 | macnewbold | and the parking garage does $5 prepay after 5 |
| 19:53.38 | herlo | macnewbold: okay |
| 19:53.52 | tierra | ah, yeah, I guess at 7pm, that's not much of an issue |
| 19:53.55 | macnewbold | but if you tell them you're coming here, they generally will let you get in without paying, since we buy validations from them |
| 19:54.13 | macnewbold | then after 9pm, they generally are gone with the gate up, so if you didn't prepay you're more or less off the hook |
| 19:54.39 | tierra | well, I for one, will just walk :) |
| 19:54.53 | macnewbold | from 7-8:30pm would I think normally be about $5 anyway - 1 hr =$3, 2 hr = $5 iirc |
| 19:55.08 | macnewbold | tierra: yeah, walking/trax are my fav down here |
| 19:55.14 | macnewbold | even free fare buses from time to time |
| 19:55.18 | macnewbold | just so handy |
| 19:56.48 | mgeary | macnewbold: SEVEN kids?! |
| 19:57.18 | mgeary | well, i'm not sure how i feel about a BYOFL meeting |
| 20:07.04 | macnewbold | mgeary: we have 4 of our own, plus 3 placed with us in foster care for the last couple of months and at least 1 more month |
| 20:07.26 | mgeary | well, good on ya |
| 20:07.27 | macnewbold | over the last two years, we've averaged about 6 kids most of the time |
| 20:07.46 | macnewbold | we're trying to adopt, and it's sort of like a "try before you buy" program ;) |
| 20:07.54 | mgeary | heh |
| 20:10.11 | mgeary | good luck with that |
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| 20:56.01 | SunSparc | orsonj: Congrats! Good luck with the added estrogen. ;) |
| 21:02.14 | Utah_Dave | orsonj: Congratulations!! |
| 21:02.35 | macnewbold | orsonj: w00t! congrats! |
| 21:02.46 | macnewbold | Utah_Dave: want to present for uphpu on thursday? |
| 21:02.48 | Utah_Dave | macnewbold: we had 3 foster kids a couple years ago. |
| 21:02.53 | macnewbold | oh, cool |
| 21:03.02 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, it was cool. |
| 21:03.32 | Utah_Dave | I'd love to present, but my wife has a big shin dig going on Thursday night |
| 21:03.41 | Utah_Dave | So I have babysitting duty |
| 21:04.55 | beandog | Why is it when the dad has to watch the kids, they call it babysitting? |
| 21:05.16 | beandog | I'm just asking as a single guy, since that never made sense to me. |
| 21:05.42 | Utah_Dave | We do it to annoy single guys |
| 21:05.53 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 21:06.33 | beandog | heh. married people are weird |
| 21:07.45 | SunSparc | beandog: You have no idea. |
| 21:07.47 | SunSparc | ;) |
| 21:16.21 | itimber | married people are fine... it's the parent's that are cooky |
| 21:16.28 | itimber | :) |
| 21:16.54 | SunSparc | Amen to that. They get it from their kids. |
| 21:24.01 | macnewbold | beandog: my wife gets mad whenever i say "babysitting" instead of "watching the kids" - she says "it's called being a dad" |
| 21:24.16 | macnewbold | so i've retrained myself not to use the term babysitting |
| 21:25.04 | itimber | same here, on both counts |
| 21:25.06 | itimber | :) |
| 21:25.10 | itimber | brb |
| 21:25.13 | *** part/#uphpu itimber (~Timothy@68.143.2.178.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 21:25.27 | *** join/#uphpu itimber (~Timothy@68.143.2.178.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 21:25.27 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v itimber] by ChanServ |
| 21:25.35 | herlo | orsonj: congrats man! |
| 21:26.27 | *** join/#uphpu mastergunns (~mastergun@c-174-52-57-168.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:42.19 | influx | Is there any way to "auto" source the .bashrc file for a particular user account? |
| 21:42.28 | beandog | Yah |
| 21:42.31 | beandog | .bash_profile |
| 21:42.37 | beandog | Oh wait. |
| 21:42.45 | influx | not on os x, if that matter |
| 21:42.47 | influx | s |
| 21:42.49 | influx | debian |
| 21:42.53 | beandog | Oh wait, yah |
| 21:42.55 | beandog | .bash_profile should work |
| 21:43.02 | influx | Hmm. |
| 21:43.06 | beandog | [[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && . ~/.bashrc |
| 21:43.08 | beandog | that's mine. |
| 21:43.16 | beandog | yay gentoo |
| 21:45.19 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (~josephsco@74.200.246.169) |
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| 21:45.37 | beandog | my gosh, I can never remember how to do an insert into select |
| 21:47.39 | beandog | Oh, Im in the wrong database. Whoops. |
| 21:48.09 | beandog | now it works. :) |
| 22:03.37 | *** join/#uphpu stderr (~stderr@truedat.org) |
| 22:21.33 | beandog | stderr, \o/ |
| 22:24.21 | mgeary | stderr: long time, dude |
| 22:28.10 | influx | stderr: /o |
| 22:28.14 | influx | o/ |
| 22:29.41 | mgeary | ~pester stderr |
| 22:29.42 | ibot | stderr: Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? see http://beverlys.net/LJ/BuggingYou.swf |
| 22:31.09 | *** part/#uphpu mastergunns (~mastergun@c-174-52-57-168.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:34.45 | beandog | man today went fast. |
| 22:34.55 | beandog | I'm almost sorry to leave work. |
| 22:35.06 | beandog | Good thing that feeling is in the minority. |
| 23:28.06 | stderr | sup sup |
| 23:28.10 | stderr | been busy |
| 23:28.20 | stderr | I'll be attending UPHPU on thursday though |
| 23:28.31 | stderr | Code Greene is right across from us, we're in the Boston Building |
| 23:32.34 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (~mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 23:56.17 | wps | that's cool, stderr |
| 23:56.21 | wps | I'm glad you'll be able to attend |