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| 00:59.32 | mindjuju | anybody around? |
| 01:05.18 | ninnypants | what's up? |
| 01:06.01 | mindjuju | oh, i was going to ask which was better to download |
| 01:06.13 | mindjuju | blahblah.tar.bz2, or blahblah.tar.gz |
| 01:06.18 | mindjuju | or if they were 6s |
| 01:06.39 | mindjuju | i've seen and used balhblah.tar.gz, so i just got that one |
| 01:07.04 | mindjuju | for all intents and purposes, they seemeed to be the exact same file, just different methods of compression |
| 01:08.20 | ninnypants | that's usually all it is |
| 01:19.05 | carmony | guess who is coming to UPHPU tomorrow night :P |
| 01:23.21 | mindjuju | jennifer connelly? |
| 01:28.52 | carmony | close! |
| 01:29.01 | carmony | well, just the J and the C |
| 01:29.26 | mindjuju | Mrs. Carmony? |
| 01:30.03 | carmony | yup :) |
| 01:30.23 | mindjuju | awesome! |
| 01:32.34 | carmony | and my bro it looks like |
| 01:33.11 | mindjuju | a building full of carmony-ies! |
| 01:33.38 | carmony | haha, yup :P |
| 01:50.36 | mindjuju | carmony - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmTpOQrqoO0 |
| 01:51.43 | carmony | I saw that today |
| 01:51.48 | carmony | one will weaton's blog |
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| 13:46.26 | TuxToaster | ~thursday |
| 13:46.27 | ibot | "This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays." (Arthur Dent) |
| 13:46.34 | TuxToaster | lol |
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| 14:33.54 | ninnypants | morning |
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| 14:38.42 | ninnypants | ~thursday |
| 14:38.43 | ibot | "This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays." (Arthur Dent) |
| 14:51.08 | *** topic/#UPHPU by macnewbold -> Meeting tonight! - carmony and macnewbold on Intro to web security: Jarlsberg | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
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| 15:27.54 | mindjuju | wow, symantec just bought verisign's Auth Business including SSL, does that mean that servers using Symantec SSL certs are going to have to install software that invade every part of the computer and bog the system down? |
| 15:29.14 | ninnypants | you mean the Symantec Virus? |
| 15:29.21 | mindjuju | :) |
| 15:29.48 | mindjuju | here is the link if you want to read |
| 15:29.49 | mindjuju | http://www.darkreading.com/securityservices/security/client/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=224900430&cid=nl_DR_DAILY_2010-05-20_h |
| 15:30.15 | mindjuju | it's interesting, they're out buying like it's Christmas |
| 15:30.24 | mindjuju | PGP last month, SSL this month |
| 15:31.32 | ninnypants | hmm wonder if they're gonna crash like a lot of companies do after buying like it's christmas |
| 15:32.07 | TuxToaster | wow. Going through an old project that a previous programmer did to write a new one. |
| 15:32.25 | TuxToaster | things like function test() { return 'This is a test function.'; } |
| 15:32.26 | mindjuju | yeah, makes ya wonder what symantec is up to, what they are position for |
| 15:32.35 | TuxToaster | in production code, and actually being called. |
| 15:32.47 | mindjuju | you're kiddin |
| 15:32.55 | ninnypants | TuxToaster: did you know that's required |
| 15:33.10 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 15:33.18 | ninnypants | s/did/didn't/ |
| 15:33.24 | TuxToaster | with him, It's not only required, it's the only thing he knows. hehe |
| 15:34.44 | mindjuju | ugh, i hate comment sytems that make you have an account to post a comment |
| 15:35.38 | TuxToaster | Gizmodo's is the worst |
| 15:35.42 | TuxToaster | you have to 'audition' |
| 15:35.47 | mindjuju | you're kiddin |
| 15:35.50 | TuxToaster | nope |
| 15:35.50 | mindjuju | that's dumb |
| 15:36.07 | TuxToaster | you comment, and it has to be approved to be shown, which most aren't |
| 15:36.15 | TuxToaster | if you don't get approved, you can't comment on the site. |
| 15:36.33 | TuxToaster | I had commented several months ago on something and apparently it didn't get approved |
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| 15:36.46 | TuxToaster | so when I tried to comment the other day on a post, it said that I wasn't allowed to post |
| 15:36.47 | mindjuju | hoity toity dogs |
| 15:37.30 | mindjuju | you're not l337 enough to post here |
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| 15:37.34 | mindjuju | psh |
| 15:38.09 | mindjuju | i mean, i can see some comment moderation to block people from writing "First!" |
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| 15:45.52 | ninnypants | the best part is when people write First! but someone get a comment in before them |
| 15:50.13 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 15:51.05 | DexterTheDragon | wow google is sticking it to apple/iphone |
| 15:51.21 | ninnypants | oh? |
| 15:55.35 | fungus | uh oh, what did they do now? |
| 15:55.48 | fungus | do I need to go get an Incredible now? |
| 16:02.23 | mindjuju | i would have loved to have gotten one, just can't afford, plus don't think you get all the features even in the presence of wifi without data plan |
| 16:03.03 | ninnypants | you can't get them without data plans anymore |
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| 16:05.24 | mindjuju | true, but then it's the $500 hurdle that i couldn't jump over |
| 16:05.29 | mindjuju | you're right though ninnypants |
| 16:05.30 | DexterTheDragon | fungus: big speed improvements, cloud to device, native tethering |
| 16:05.52 | DexterTheDragon | but they've been taking a lot of shots at apples closedness |
| 16:06.02 | ninnypants | they are launching tethering with 2.2 then? |
| 16:06.29 | itimber | morning guys |
| 16:07.00 | ninnypants | morning itimber |
| 16:07.59 | mindjuju | oh man |
| 16:08.03 | mindjuju | this guy is funny |
| 16:08.49 | ninnypants | mindjuju: who? |
| 16:08.58 | mindjuju | http://www.youtube.com/googledevelopers |
| 16:09.24 | fungus | mindjuju: the Incredible can be had for less than $200 |
| 16:09.34 | mindjuju | when he was talking about clicking on the icon in your browser and having it auto instal over the air |
| 16:09.38 | mindjuju | fungus, you lie |
| 16:09.42 | mindjuju | :) |
| 16:09.44 | mindjuju | where? |
| 16:09.50 | fungus | From Verizon |
| 16:09.51 | mindjuju | i must have checked 100 places |
| 16:10.05 | mindjuju | yeah, but you need data plan to buy |
| 16:10.07 | macnewbold | fungus: w/a 2-year contract, right? |
| 16:10.11 | fungus | yes |
| 16:10.13 | macnewbold | mindjuju: you need a data plan to _use_ |
| 16:10.14 | macnewbold | :) |
| 16:10.28 | fungus | mindjuju: All HTC Incredible's require a data plan |
| 16:10.35 | macnewbold | droid incredible would be pretty lame without a data plan |
| 16:10.36 | fungus | Requirement of Verizon |
| 16:10.40 | mindjuju | yup |
| 16:10.55 | mindjuju | don't want to pay data plan |
| 16:10.59 | mindjuju | i'm a cheap bastard |
| 16:11.02 | macnewbold | but if they support tethering... that could be handy |
| 16:11.12 | mindjuju | this is cool feature about streaming audio |
| 16:11.29 | macnewbold | mindjuju: same - i have unlimited texting and i use that, but no data plan for me. i can text to an email address even... just 160 chars at a time |
| 16:11.32 | fungus | mindjuju: the $500 price is only to avoid the contract |
| 16:11.37 | macnewbold | but ssh on the incredible would be handy |
| 16:11.48 | mindjuju | oh the ssh would be awesome |
| 16:12.04 | mindjuju | expecially as i shift my servers over to ubuntu |
| 16:14.02 | macnewbold | yeah, there's all sorts of stuff android will let you do that apple/iphone won't |
| 16:14.31 | macnewbold | unless you're willing to jailbreak, which iirc loses your ability to update firmware, and maybe sync to itunes, but not sure |
| 16:14.40 | fungus | mindjuju: get a MiFi + non-phone smart-phone |
| 16:14.53 | fungus | Then you get tethering, and a small device. |
| 16:15.03 | macnewbold | and not having regular backups of my mobile smart-device would be annoying |
| 16:15.53 | fungus | macnewbold: jailbreaking only kills your ability to update firmware on release date. |
| 16:16.06 | fungus | you have to wait until the new version is jailbroken |
| 16:16.15 | macnewbold | ah |
| 16:16.42 | fungus | oh, and it kill your warranty options. |
| 16:19.39 | mindjuju | wow |
| 16:19.48 | mindjuju | wow |
| 16:19.50 | mindjuju | :( |
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| 16:20.58 | beandog | ~thursday |
| 16:20.59 | ibot | "This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays." (Arthur Dent) |
| 16:21.12 | beandog | mgeary, ping |
| 16:21.20 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.20 | fungus | mindjuju: a MiFi and an iPod Touch could be your dream if you like to have a tethering option. |
| 16:21.36 | beandog | mgeary, do you have time for a quick mvc quest |
| 16:21.37 | beandog | ion |
| 16:21.44 | mgeary | sure |
| 16:22.07 | mindjuju | ~wiki mifi |
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| 16:23.30 | macnewbold | mindjuju: I think it is the mobile equiv. of wifi - i.e. using cell phone network to get your computer online |
| 16:23.48 | mindjuju | oh like through bluetooth? |
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| 16:24.11 | beandog | mifi? |
| 16:24.14 | beandog | wow, what a dumb name. |
| 16:25.01 | beandog | I'd call it something like Amazing Radiating Signals of Interstellar Beamalot Protocol |
| 16:25.24 | mindjuju | those are better names |
| 16:27.26 | josephscott | probably with mifi (and similar devices) is that none of the mobile carriers offer unlimited bandwidth any more |
| 16:27.43 | mindjuju | google tv? |
| 16:27.53 | beandog | mindjuju, its just software to run on cable boxes |
| 16:29.03 | beandog | although, tivo could use some good competition ... |
| 16:29.10 | mindjuju | they should turn down the TV |
| 16:29.14 | mindjuju | it's distracting |
| 16:29.14 | beandog | and anything is better than comcast's DVR software |
| 16:32.18 | macnewbold | josephscott: so is it all per-usage now, or just have caps on it? |
| 16:33.22 | josephscott | they mostly do things like 5GB for $60/mo and $1 per every MB over (made up numbers, pattern is the same) |
| 16:33.53 | josephscott | beandog: dishnetwork DVR isn't too bad, certainly missing some features I'd like though |
| 16:35.41 | mindjuju | how many boxes do they have, and what are they switching? |
| 16:37.40 | ninnypants | I think they are switching video output |
| 16:38.20 | ninnypants | all the bluetooth phones in the room are messing with their keyboards |
| 16:38.42 | mindjuju | poor devils |
| 16:41.02 | fungus | mindjuju: MiFi = a really tiny WiFi router with a cell service internet connection |
| 16:42.57 | jtsnow | anyone have experience with Sprint? |
| 16:43.03 | influx | cedwards: I think I came up with a potential solution to your issue from yesterday. |
| 16:43.15 | mindjuju | a supa long time ago, loved it |
| 16:43.26 | cedwards | influx: I have a working solution, but I'd be interested in what you came up with. |
| 16:46.01 | influx | I would have posted it yesterday, but i was having issues with this workstation. http://pastebin.com/n0GcDwuY |
| 16:47.07 | influx | I haven't tested the code, though. |
| 16:47.33 | mindjuju | so, while i see google as doing no wrong (nott thinking about buzz or wave, etc) it sounds like i'm getting ready to be sold a webTV |
| 16:47.52 | cedwards | influx: I'm currently using this - http://pastebin.com/vD4LVpaZ |
| 16:48.06 | influx | webTV is still kicking around, eh? |
| 16:48.15 | cedwards | influx: it works, but it's a little more work if I ever want to add new header links. |
| 16:48.20 | influx | I remember browsing excite on that thing. |
| 16:48.23 | mindjuju | well, i think that's what google is getting ready to ofrfer |
| 16:48.40 | influx | cedwards: mine or your code? |
| 16:48.56 | cedwards | influx: mine |
| 16:49.01 | influx | Ah. |
| 16:49.23 | mindjuju | i hope they've thought about integration with android, having a wireless laptop sitting there next to the remote, i'm not sure |
| 16:49.49 | ninnypants | or using your droid as the remote |
| 16:49.58 | mindjuju | that would be cool |
| 16:50.44 | ninnypants | that would probably drive people nuts cause you'd walk off with the remote all the time |
| 16:51.00 | influx | cedwards: With mine, as it currently stands, you'd have to add list items to each page that has $listTabArray defined |
| 16:51.03 | influx | but |
| 16:51.07 | mindjuju | hmm, that's true ninnypants |
| 16:51.21 | influx | I think that an include might preclude that. |
| 16:51.26 | influx | the need, that is |
| 16:51.55 | influx | That kind of messies things up a bit though, it seems. :\ |
| 16:56.25 | mindjuju | oh |
| 16:56.27 | mindjuju | wow |
| 16:58.07 | mindjuju | oh nice |
| 16:58.41 | ninnypants | nice |
| 16:58.59 | ninnypants | that keyboad he has is really nice I used one for a while |
| 16:59.25 | beandog | ugh ... mvc stuff is confusing :| |
| 17:05.12 | SunSparc | beandog: why? |
| 17:05.18 | SunSparc | What are you confused about? |
| 17:05.22 | beandog | I can't tell what goes in which |
| 17:05.25 | mindjuju | i'm hungry\ |
| 17:05.33 | beandog | like, does the view access the model directly? |
| 17:05.34 | SunSparc | ~feed mindjuju |
| 17:05.35 | ibot | ACTION offers mindjuju some pizza |
| 17:05.43 | ninnypants | same here |
| 17:05.44 | SunSparc | beandog: No |
| 17:05.55 | beandog | then how does it get the data? |
| 17:06.02 | fungus | model = data, view = display, controller connects the two together |
| 17:06.03 | SunSparc | The View is the presentation layer. |
| 17:06.29 | SunSparc | It should actually be VCM or MCVinstead of MVC |
| 17:06.31 | beandog | that what I thought, but I keep reading these explanations saying the view passes data back and forth to the model |
| 17:07.04 | SunSparc | Well yes, it seems that way, but it is done through the code in the Controller. |
| 17:07.23 | beandog | Hmm |
| 17:07.25 | fungus | In the web world, Views are output only |
| 17:07.25 | SunSparc | The Controller sits in between the View and the Model. |
| 17:07.38 | ninnypants | ahh buswords that mean nothing |
| 17:08.26 | SunSparc | ninnypants: :) You need something explained to you? |
| 17:08.34 | ninnypants | nope |
| 17:08.40 | ninnypants | http://www.blackbaud.com/files/demos/sis/sisdemo.html |
| 17:08.51 | ninnypants | watch the technology section |
| 17:09.52 | beandog | ugh |
| 17:09.53 | beandog | Im lost. |
| 17:10.15 | SunSparc | ninnypants: LOL |
| 17:10.23 | SunSparc | What does that even mean? |
| 17:10.29 | ninnypants | not sure |
| 17:10.33 | SunSparc | hehe |
| 17:10.42 | influx | Can I assign the contents of an include to a variable? |
| 17:10.43 | SunSparc | Who wrote that lady's script. lo |
| 17:10.45 | ninnypants | It sound super technical so it must be good right |
| 17:10.45 | Utah_Dave | Hey, beandog. Are you going to the meeting tomorrow? |
| 17:10.45 | influx | Directly* |
| 17:11.01 | beandog | Utah_Dave, you mean tonight? |
| 17:11.08 | Utah_Dave | Uh, yeah, tonight |
| 17:11.11 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 17:11.23 | beandog | I can't make it, I have to go to a church mtg. |
| 17:12.22 | Utah_Dave | ok, well, in CI and MVC your controller is the brain |
| 17:12.23 | beandog | I might go to after-hours tho |
| 17:12.54 | Utah_Dave | The controller gets the POST data, url data, etc |
| 17:12.59 | influx | Maybe something like $foo = (include('bar.inc.php')); |
| 17:13.11 | Utah_Dave | If it needs information it can request info from the model |
| 17:13.23 | influx | nm |
| 17:13.34 | Utah_Dave | It collects all the data, makes decisions and calculations |
| 17:14.02 | Utah_Dave | When it's all ready, it calls the appropriate view and passes the view the data it needs |
| 17:14.11 | SunSparc | beandog: here is a good tutorial on CakePHP that may help you understand MVC better: http://book.cakephp.org/view/219/Blog |
| 17:14.25 | beandog | Utah_Dave, yah I think I have that |
| 17:14.28 | Utah_Dave | In CI, you typically put all the data in a single array that's passed to the view when you call it. |
| 17:14.34 | beandog | Im just confused if you are accessing a model in a controller |
| 17:14.42 | beandog | do you just grab all you need in there, then pass the vars to the view? |
| 17:14.44 | SunSparc | beandog: Also, http://book.cakephp.org/view/10/Understanding-Model-View-Controller |
| 17:14.53 | beandog | SunSparc, thanks, Ill take a look |
| 17:14.59 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:15.02 | Utah_Dave | Yes, exactly |
| 17:15.17 | beandog | CI's docs are great for the app itself, but they don't do well at explaining MVC basics, and their examples don't really employ them either (from what I can tell) |
| 17:15.29 | beandog | fex ... |
| 17:15.42 | beandog | I just lost it. |
| 17:16.00 | beandog | oh well |
| 17:16.40 | beandog | thanks guys |
| 17:17.28 | ninnypants | this is the most distracking header I've ever seen http://www.empower-xl.com/ |
| 17:18.51 | beandog | ninnypants, lol |
| 17:19.20 | ninnypants | it took me about 5 minutes to read the firs papagraph |
| 17:19.30 | influx | cedwards: http://pastebin.com/B5VzyyD1 |
| 17:20.00 | fungus | ninnypants: are you sure that link isn't for some kind of erectile dysfunction pill? |
| 17:20.43 | influx | ignore that one |
| 17:20.45 | influx | http://pastebin.com/kvy2TxYV |
| 17:21.09 | ninnypants | fungus: not sure I never could read the content because of the header |
| 17:25.07 | ninnypants | best thing about the site is that they don't have any screen shots or actual examples of the product |
| 17:25.26 | beandog | that should tell you who they are marketing to |
| 17:31.06 | influx | Would someone here look at this (http://pastebin.com/iZH9g8T4) and tell me if they see anything non-kosher going on? |
| 17:31.20 | influx | Can't test it atm. |
| 17:32.06 | mindjuju | having these CEOs on stage is funny |
| 17:33.02 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: and by funny you mean boring? |
| 17:33.13 | mindjuju | no way, i love this interaction |
| 17:33.38 | beandog | mindjuju, whut? |
| 17:33.47 | mindjuju | http://www.youtube.com/googledevelopers |
| 17:34.40 | beandog | oh is tha still going on |
| 17:34.56 | beandog | should I get my buzzword bingo card? |
| 17:35.18 | beandog | oh boy .... softball questions |
| 17:35.39 | beandog | I'd rather watch a RonCo infomerical. |
| 17:35.41 | ninnypants | influx: why not just use global in the function isntead of trying to return a value from an include file |
| 17:35.48 | beandog | at least those aren't pretentious. |
| 17:36.14 | mindjuju | these individuals are at the top of their game |
| 17:36.24 | mindjuju | do you know how few businesses actually live longer than 10yrs |
| 17:36.32 | mindjuju | and how few make it beyond ? |
| 17:36.57 | mindjuju | they shouldn't be glorified, but they should be looked at |
| 17:37.23 | mindjuju | that's just me though |
| 17:37.32 | influx | ninnypants: Not sure I understand the question. What I'm trying to do there is to make it so that the contents of $li only has to be written once and the code doesn't have to relaly be fiddled with. |
| 17:37.52 | influx | that path to the inc would lead to listTabItems.inc.php btw |
| 17:37.58 | influx | that's not clear in the paste |
| 17:37.59 | beandog | mindjuju, wow this is boring |
| 17:38.05 | mindjuju | don't watch then |
| 17:38.24 | mindjuju | here, watch this while they talk |
| 17:38.25 | mindjuju | http://www.yikers.com/video_conan_is_the_molecular_man.html |
| 17:41.04 | ninnypants | from the documentation the vars automatically inherit the scope of where you include them, so you shouldn't have to wory about including the file into a var |
| 17:41.49 | beandog | mindjuju, heh, thx |
| 17:43.42 | beandog | conan ftw |
| 17:43.51 | influx | ninnypants: Mind showing me what you mean? |
| 17:43.58 | mindjuju | the real question is this |
| 17:44.16 | mindjuju | coco > troy mcclure (can't remember that guy's name) or is it the other way around |
| 17:44.31 | influx | Phil Hartman |
| 17:44.36 | mindjuju | ah there it is |
| 17:44.44 | mindjuju | i had the mind Peter, and I knew that was wrong |
| 17:44.44 | influx | Watched News Radio whenever I could. |
| 17:44.53 | beandog | r.i.p. phil |
| 17:44.59 | mindjuju | yup |
| 17:47.53 | beandog | hmm |
| 17:48.01 | herlo | and Stephen Root is awesome on that too |
| 17:48.16 | mindjuju | that's milton, isn't it? |
| 17:48.20 | ninnypants | http://pastebin.com/NYWN1PCy |
| 17:48.26 | herlo | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112095/ |
| 17:48.28 | herlo | mindjuju: yup |
| 17:48.36 | ninnypants | influx that link was for you |
| 17:48.44 | mindjuju | he's great in office space, top of his game in dodgeball |
| 17:48.49 | herlo | mindjuju: he was on News Radio as Jimmy James |
| 17:50.01 | influx | Hmm. |
| 17:50.29 | influx | Option 2 me gusta. |
| 17:50.42 | ninnypants | influx: also $li can remain static and not have to be included because there wont be a listTab.func.php for each page there will just be a var that tells it how to display |
| 17:52.53 | influx | Is that in reference to option 1? |
| 17:56.04 | influx | Breakfast today was two 6-count packages of peanut butter cracker sammiches. |
| 17:56.31 | herlo | oh, nasty |
| 17:59.03 | unum | ok in postgres I have two fields of the same type, I want to select distinct across both of them |
| 17:59.24 | unum | so let's say the first column has 1 2 3 4 5 6 and the second column has 5 6 7 8 |
| 17:59.29 | unum | I want 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 |
| 18:00.33 | SunSparc | I want 4 8 15 16 23 42 |
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| 18:10.42 | beandog | what does this mean: it says controllers applies business rules to data |
| 18:10.44 | beandog | what are business rules? |
| 18:11.16 | xtrementl | logic |
| 18:11.26 | beandog | oh ok |
| 18:11.37 | xtrementl | basically the code that manipulates data or manages the request |
| 18:11.44 | DexterTheDragon | beandog: things like Don't oggle the secretary |
| 18:11.53 | xtrementl | rofl |
| 18:11.56 | beandog | lols |
| 18:13.16 | xtrementl | beandog: you going to the meeting tonight? |
| 18:13.30 | beandog | xtrementl, cant make it. :( |
| 18:13.58 | xtrementl | ah that's too bad.. oh wells |
| 18:19.29 | mindjuju | you going xtrementl? |
| 18:19.50 | beandog | http://ellislab.com/images/avatars/uploads/avatar_64725.gif |
| 18:20.08 | xtrementl | mindjuju: yes sir |
| 18:20.25 | mindjuju | awesome! it'll be good to have ya there |
| 18:20.39 | mindjuju | did me ears hear correctly that you graduated this past spring? |
| 18:20.41 | xtrementl | yeah i'm finally graduated |
| 18:20.41 | beandog | now I need to find a good naming scheme for CI |
| 18:21.00 | mindjuju | that's awesome! |
| 18:21.11 | mindjuju | 3 more years for me |
| 18:21.13 | xtrementl | http://namingschemes.com |
| 18:21.26 | xtrementl | courtesy of dexterthedragon |
| 18:21.32 | mindjuju | i'm maxing out semester at 12 ~ 13 credits, but doing summer school, so that puts me back at 4 yers i think |
| 18:23.00 | xtrementl | mindjuju: sounds rough, but you'll get through it |
| 18:23.32 | mindjuju | what was your major? |
| 18:24.32 | xtrementl | comp sci - software eng. |
| 18:24.43 | mindjuju | awesome |
| 18:25.37 | xtrementl | you guys see this? http://clubajax.org/files/rand.html |
| 18:25.40 | xtrementl | bbiab.. lunch |
| 18:26.02 | beandog | whats the plural of analysis? |
| 18:26.24 | beandog | analyses |
| 18:26.25 | beandog | that sounds odd. |
| 18:30.01 | mindjuju | ~moleculo |
| 18:30.53 | beandog | heh |
| 18:31.01 | beandog | ~moleculo++ |
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| 18:42.34 | mindjuju | Muad'Dib == kyle maclachlan FTW |
| 18:42.52 | mindjuju | i'm too afraid of the sci-fi remake to watch it |
| 18:43.27 | SunSparc | mindjuju: I have the SciFi remake. They did a good job. |
| 18:43.48 | SunSparc | I hear another yet is in the works. |
| 18:44.00 | mindjuju | i've got several friends say that the scifi one is the better |
| 18:44.11 | mindjuju | i just love the original so much |
| 18:44.41 | SunSparc | Yeah the original is awesome. I think the SciFi one is able to cover more because it was a mini-series. |
| 18:44.54 | SunSparc | And they stayed more true to the book. |
| 18:45.10 | mindjuju | yeah, that's what i hear, the movie wasn't as true to the book |
| 18:45.22 | SunSparc | Though I love it when Sting shouts, "I WILL KILL HIM!" |
| 18:45.23 | mindjuju | i tried reading one in jr. high, haven't circled back around to really read it |
| 18:45.34 | mindjuju | oh yeah, knife fight at the end |
| 18:45.41 | carmony | how do you tell a linux server to re-read hte /etc/fstab and re-mount new entries? |
| 18:45.42 | SunSparc | mindjuju: Oh, you should. I love the book. |
| 18:45.52 | SunSparc | mount -a |
| 18:45.58 | SunSparc | carmony: ^ |
| 18:46.31 | SunSparc | If I remember correctly. |
| 18:55.20 | mindjuju | not normalize data? |
| 18:55.21 | mindjuju | scary |
| 18:55.56 | SunSparc | Yah |
| 19:02.04 | mindjuju | that's curious, i've reread will like 3x, and I still think it's a little off. I've always thought that if youj're collecting data from the web that's going to be used for the web, it should be stored relationally, and that if it is going to be data warehouse directly, it should be stored suited for reporting, and if it is both, for efficency purposes, store as relational for web and convert to non-normalized for dbwarehouse |
| 19:02.21 | mindjuju | though truth of it, i've never had to prep data for a specific data warehouse structure |
| 19:02.41 | mindjuju | i do have large sums of data i collect, but id on't think enough to constitute a warehouse |
| 19:03.02 | josephscott | I think in most cases the largest factor is the amount of data you are storing |
| 19:03.30 | mindjuju | you should talk! you're storing terrabytes a day, i'm sure |
| 19:03.49 | mindjuju | that sounded funny, wasn't saying you should talk, i was really saying that i'm glad you're pipping in |
| 19:03.55 | josephscott | a reasonably normalized DB can do pretty much anything you need when the size of the data is relatively small |
| 19:05.44 | mindjuju | so things break down with larger dataset josephscott? |
| 19:06.07 | josephscott | and given the increase is today's computing power, large can often mean millions of rows |
| 19:06.41 | josephscott | there are different pain points that come into play as the amount of data gets huge |
| 19:07.16 | mindjuju | so you're saying in some cases this is better? |name|rank|serial|address|skill1|skill2|skill3| |
| 19:07.16 | josephscott | for instance, you end up with different backup/restore methods when data size is huge |
| 19:07.36 | josephscott | and queries too, when things don't fit into memory any more things gets slow/ugly |
| 19:07.56 | josephscott | mindjuju: I'm saying in some cases it could be |
| 19:08.11 | mindjuju | curious |
| 19:08.14 | josephscott | and hopefully you've got a smart person to figure out if your particular situation is one of those |
| 19:09.12 | josephscott | tech isn't about finding one neat technique and applying it to everything, it's about figuring out what your needs/issues/pain points are and designing to deal with them |
| 19:10.03 | josephscott | and the beauty of all this is that figuring those things out is in a constant state of flux as well |
| 19:10.04 | mindjuju | i've got to admit, i'm addicted to uniformity |
| 19:10.21 | mindjuju | i like all my tables and databases lined up all neat and organized |
| 19:10.38 | josephscott | given the same problem today and 3 years from now, you may solve it 3 years from now in a different way |
| 19:12.01 | xtrementl | yeah given new tech to deal with existing issues and new issues emerging |
| 19:14.00 | josephscott | and increase in computing power/capability and reduction in cost for existing hardware |
| 19:14.27 | josephscott | and changes in experience, hopefully everyone continues to learn over the span of something like 3 years |
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| 19:42.59 | beandog | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a324ykKV-7Y 100% no mindjuju tricks |
| 19:44.02 | SunSparc | lol |
| 19:50.34 | beandog | Holllly crap |
| 19:50.38 | beandog | I *never* would have guessed |
| 19:50.50 | beandog | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6dZtNYGlLM&feature=player_embedded |
| 19:50.51 | beandog | watch that |
| 19:51.12 | beandog | crap, cant find permalink |
| 19:51.20 | beandog | ui fail |
| 19:51.33 | beandog | http://www.retrothing.com/2010/04/why-you-dont-remember-lotsohuggin-bear-toy-from-the-80s.html |
| 19:51.41 | beandog | that is just awesome. |
| 19:52.27 | beandog | epic win |
| 19:57.59 | beandog | heh |
| 19:58.34 | beandog | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYaSHqGoyno |
| 19:58.35 | beandog | Oh wow |
| 19:58.37 | beandog | new song stuck in my head |
| 19:58.58 | SunSparc | That is interesting that they are advertising a huggin bear. The bear is not different than any other stuffed toy. It does no hugging whatsoever. |
| 19:59.11 | beandog | SunSparc, yah, now read the link |
| 20:00.26 | SunSparc | beandog: Oooohh... friggin genius. |
| 20:00.50 | beandog | SunSparc, isnt that awesome? |
| 20:00.56 | beandog | I totally believed it |
| 20:01.05 | SunSparc | Seriously. |
| 20:01.32 | beandog | http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrazycommercials#p/a/u/1/7sp7cQa7Sno |
| 20:01.38 | beandog | There's something that is *definitely* 80s |
| 20:02.00 | SunSparc | Yeah, I seem to remember that one. lolz |
| 20:02.28 | beandog | oh ........ wow |
| 20:02.30 | beandog | Mr. T cereal |
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| 20:02.39 | beandog | I'd pay real money for a box of that |
| 20:02.56 | SunSparc | beandog: you are addicted |
| 20:03.34 | beandog | man, talk about a gold mine |
| 20:03.39 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:04.54 | SunSparc | Wow, it has been a long time since I have hand written database connection code |
| 20:09.57 | influx | We put a ternary in your ternary so you could headdesk while you facepalm |
| 20:10.01 | jtsnow | has anyone here used Amazon's SimpleDB? |
| 20:15.28 | SunSparc | influx: lol |
| 20:15.58 | SunSparc | jtsnow: S3? We use it here at work, but I have never actually set one up. |
| 20:17.05 | jtsnow | SunSparc: No, S3 is different from SimpleDB. SimpleDB is comparable to MongoDB or CouchDB |
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| 20:19.43 | TuxToaster | so did I tell you guys about the merchant gateway in Romania that wanted a two minute delay on transaction responses? |
| 20:21.51 | TuxToaster | we thought it would be annoying enough to have to wait two minutes on a page for the authorization to go though. Then they said it could take as long as five minutes |
| 20:22.07 | TuxToaster | turns out they are calling the banks and getting voice authorization for each transaction |
| 20:22.15 | _psychic_ | lol |
| 20:22.29 | influx | Hrm. |
| 20:23.22 | TuxToaster | yup |
| 20:23.30 | _psychic_ | Tell them it might take 5 minutes or so to send the request since you're faxing them. |
| 20:23.57 | TuxToaster | he wanted us to keep the connection open the whole time, or ping them every second to see what the status was |
| 20:24.14 | TuxToaster | I told him they would need to post it to a backend service when they're done, we're not waiting. lol |
| 20:24.28 | TuxToaster | _psychic_: LOL |
| 20:25.22 | TuxToaster | we also send receipts via pony express. |
| 20:25.29 | beandog | lol |
| 20:25.36 | beandog | trans-atlantic? |
| 20:26.07 | TuxToaster | nope, those have to be shipped on a boat first. |
| 20:26.24 | TuxToaster | don't even ask how the passenger travels once they get their ticket. |
| 20:26.54 | _psychic_ | scalability fale |
| 20:27.18 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:27.21 | TuxToaster | completely. |
| 20:27.26 | SunSparc | jtsnow: Oh, that is right. I have not used SimpleDB, but have heard of it. |
| 20:27.43 | TuxToaster | what's frustrating about it is the customer *insists* that he must go with them |
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| 20:28.11 | _psychic_ | Just start putting 2-5 minute delays all over the place. |
| 20:28.28 | mgeary | jsmith-away: ping |
| 20:28.29 | TuxToaster | his reasoning is because "I picked you guys for our vendor, and you wouldn't like it if the provider were telling us to go with another vendor, so you don't tell us to go with another gateway" |
| 20:28.50 | TuxToaster | lol we should |
| 20:29.04 | TuxToaster | we could delay their flights by five minutes each |
| 20:29.13 | _psychic_ | Yeah but you guys were picked because you're good. If you're causing 5 *minute* delay in the apps, I'd hope you were eliminated too. |
| 20:29.15 | TuxToaster | citing that they need voice authorization to dispatch them. |
| 20:29.30 | TuxToaster | so would I :-) |
| 20:29.53 | TuxToaster | our product has it's faults for sure, but stupid things like that are not one of them. |
| 20:30.01 | TuxToaster | wow, that was a horrible sentence. |
| 20:30.02 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:30.19 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: your client has a great argument. |
| 20:30.45 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: I completely understood his position |
| 20:31.21 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: As do it, but it is defending a lousy position. |
| 20:31.43 | TuxToaster | and I told him that we were willing to work with the gateway provider, but we just made sure he understood that would mean five minute delays and a larger implementation window to cover the extra development. |
| 20:32.05 | SunSparc | But as long as he pays the bills and does not haunt you went end users get pissed about the wait time, itsallgood, right? |
| 20:32.10 | TuxToaster | since the system wasn't designed to have to wait and receive a response separately |
| 20:32.20 | _psychic_ | SunSparc: no |
| 20:32.28 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:32.37 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: eh, I wouldn't call it 'good' |
| 20:32.42 | _psychic_ | besides, the latter premise is fantasy. |
| 20:32.44 | TuxToaster | but it does pay the bills |
| 20:32.58 | TuxToaster | supposedly they are working on a better solution and this is temporary, |
| 20:33.07 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:33.18 | _psychic_ | Maybe they should use the Internet. |
| 20:33.23 | _psychic_ | And *computers*. |
| 20:33.49 | SunSparc | heh, now you are just talking crazy talk |
| 20:34.08 | TuxToaster | I will say if they were MY direct client that I were developing for myself, I would have turned them down. |
| 20:34.42 | TuxToaster | to me, having them as a customer isn't worth putting everything else off for two weeks to implement something so out of base |
| 20:35.27 | SunSparc | Exactly. |
| 20:35.57 | SunSparc | The power to turn customers down is great. |
| 20:36.12 | TuxToaster | and that's just the attitude my boss had... until he got on the phone with them. :-) |
| 20:36.53 | SunSparc | So he got suck(er)ed into their sob story? |
| 20:36.55 | TuxToaster | it is harder to actually tell the customer 'no' than to want to. |
| 20:37.56 | _psychic_ | Very true. |
| 20:39.37 | TuxToaster | before working here, I worked at a call center that did internet support |
| 20:39.42 | ninnypants | influx: you figure things out? |
| 20:40.12 | TuxToaster | being a supervisor and manager there, I got pretty good at telling customers no, putting them in their place when necessary, and cancelling them for being jerks to techs. |
| 20:40.25 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Good times |
| 20:40.27 | TuxToaster | but we had thousands of customers |
| 20:40.44 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Which ISP? |
| 20:41.06 | TuxToaster | when you only have a few dozen or less, you really don't want to go wild cutting them off, even if many of them do stupid things |
| 20:41.43 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: several :-) worked at IKANO Communications. We did branded services for a lot of ISPs |
| 20:41.57 | macnewbold | there's a really nice way to tell people no without telling people no... |
| 20:42.06 | macnewbold | we affectionately call it "PITA tax" |
| 20:42.16 | SunSparc | Ah. I worked for a local ISP for a while. ITSnet. Back in the dial up days. |
| 20:42.24 | macnewbold | you just adjust the price until it's high enough that you're willing to deal with the crap as long as you're getting paid enough |
| 20:42.30 | TuxToaster | SISNA is the most common one around here, since it's owned by them, but there's lots of places that offered private label stuff too. |
| 20:42.31 | macnewbold | i've seen it at 2x-3x sometimes |
| 20:42.52 | macnewbold | and if they don't want to pay that much, then they leave |
| 20:42.53 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: working there now even, you'd be surprised just how big the dialup business still is. |
| 20:42.58 | macnewbold | but it was their choice, not cause you told them no |
| 20:43.03 | TuxToaster | slowly declining, but still quite heavily used. |
| 20:43.29 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: that blows my mind since I have not used dial-up for a decade. |
| 20:43.42 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: I agree, but the funny thing is our customers are more than willing to pay. |
| 20:44.04 | TuxToaster | you find airlines will pay almost any price if it gets the job done |
| 20:44.31 | TuxToaster | SunSparc: yup yup. There are still some huge markets for it, particularly in the midwest and southeast. |
| 20:44.43 | SunSparc | Makes sense. |
| 20:45.28 | TuxToaster | Verizon and AT&T have made good strides in CA to blanket dialup service, and much of the northwest has utility-owned fiber networks, but there are still a lot of places that can't get DSL and a lot more customers that don't want it, even if they can get it. |
| 20:45.56 | TuxToaster | even more sad is how many people will still pay upwards of $25/mo for it. :/ |
| 20:47.05 | orsonj | right before broadband became available (only a couple years ago) I was paying $9/month for dialup |
| 20:47.14 | SunSparc | I could see having it if I was traveling... wait... no, that is still too much of a hassle. I cannot think of any really good reasons to use dialup. Perhaps if I was a service technician, visiting homes... |
| 20:47.28 | TuxToaster | at one point one of our ISPs was as low as $5.95/mo for it |
| 20:47.40 | SunSparc | _psychic_: Yeah? Cool. I remember them. |
| 20:47.48 | TuxToaster | _psychic_: cool. how long ago? |
| 20:47.55 | _psychic_ | 10 years or so |
| 20:47.58 | Utah_Dave1 | macnewbold: I've invoked the PITA tax a few times. |
| 20:48.16 | TuxToaster | ah, before or just after IKANO was formed then |
| 20:48.46 | _psychic_ | Yeah, I actually met Henry a few times, too. |
| 20:48.51 | _psychic_ | Pretty good setup. |
| 20:49.01 | _psychic_ | It was just as they moved to IKANO. |
| 20:49.21 | _psychic_ | In fact my domain name's tech contacts are all SISNA people. |
| 20:49.29 | _psychic_ | I can't even renew it it's so old. :/ |
| 20:49.30 | orsonj | perhaps it was $8/month (see http://www.totalusa.net/ I got it through these guys) |
| 20:49.37 | TuxToaster | yeah, wasn't bad. I still like my ISP to be more tech friendly like Xmission |
| 20:49.53 | TuxToaster | but I use theirs because I know the network like the back of my hand :-) |
| 20:50.16 | _psychic_ | Yeah I love those guys. |
| 20:50.54 | TuxToaster | a few of us wanted to do some more cool stuff with the network, set up local linux mirrors and such, but just couldn't find the time to do it. |
| 20:51.08 | carmony | I need to finish my darn slides! |
| 20:51.15 | TuxToaster | then do it! |
| 20:53.10 | TuxToaster | going back to what macnewbold said though, I think there still needs to be some limit on what you will do for a customer, even if they are willing to pay for it. |
| 20:53.35 | TuxToaster | I know the whole "money talks" bit, but at some point money can talk too much. |
| 20:54.14 | macnewbold | yeah, we inherited a client (couldn't really decline it) that happens to be selling libido enhancement products |
| 20:54.24 | TuxToaster | LOL |
| 20:54.31 | macnewbold | which I personally rate only marginally better than male enhancement products |
| 20:54.55 | macnewbold | and we were willing to deal with it cause their site was primarily from a pseudomedical standpoint |
| 20:55.05 | macnewbold | the most risque picture they had was empty bedsheets |
| 20:55.16 | macnewbold | and a few TMI testimonials |
| 20:55.29 | TuxToaster | that's at least better than what it could have been. |
| 20:55.58 | macnewbold | yeah, now they want to start a/b testing some other designs "This white one is too clean... we need to try something dirtier" |
| 20:56.01 | TuxToaster | main thing I'd be concerned with would be spam coming from them |
| 20:56.09 | TuxToaster | ouch |
| 20:56.18 | macnewbold | our designer was like "uh, no" |
| 20:56.42 | macnewbold | he could just imagine trying to find "dirtier" artwork on istock, and wasn't willing to do it (good for him) |
| 20:56.48 | *** join/#uphpu ender|h (~ender@c-98-202-87-28.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:56.52 | TuxToaster | lol I can imagine |
| 20:57.01 | TuxToaster | "it's work-related, I swear!" |
| 20:57.29 | macnewbold | the nice thing about pita tax though, TuxToaster, is that if they still want you to do it, and you're still not feeling like it's worth it, you just bump the pita tax some more. |
| 20:57.55 | beandog | one meeeeelion dollars |
| 20:58.05 | macnewbold | there are projects i'd do for that much.... |
| 20:58.07 | TuxToaster | in our case, the only flexibility we'd have would be by exaggerating the time taken |
| 20:58.23 | TuxToaster | the hourly rates are locked in contract |
| 20:58.34 | SunSparc | one meeeeelion hours |
| 20:59.08 | macnewbold | yeah, there's a triangle to consider sometimes - the three corners are high speed, high quality, and low cost. Pick any 1-2 you like. |
| 20:59.09 | TuxToaster | if we made a meeeeelion dollars off a project, I'd be wanting about half of that so I could go buy myself a house. :-D |
| 20:59.10 | beandog | ^5 SunSparc |
| 20:59.15 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:59.39 | beandog | can I get high quality and low cost? |
| 20:59.56 | unum | yes but it'll take me 8 years to finish it :) |
| 21:00.03 | beandog | how is that low cost? |
| 21:00.25 | macnewbold | if you want to pay me $10/hr to do something, I may very well only touch it or think about it when I have nothing better to do |
| 21:00.38 | macnewbold | and chances are pretty good i'd have something better to do for at least the next 8 years |
| 21:03.36 | influx | ninnypants: Haven't touched it since then. |
| 21:03.37 | *** join/#uphpu jtsnow (~chatzilla@VDSL-151-118-129-72.DNVR.QWEST.NET) |
| 21:03.46 | influx | But I saved what you sent. |
| 21:04.18 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: lol. I'd love to use that line on a customer. |
| 21:05.16 | macnewbold | yeah, it would be fun, but only once per customer. |
| 21:05.41 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:06.43 | beandog | oh wow, my code actually worked |
| 21:06.57 | influx | dog dog dog dog dog dog |
| 21:08.57 | TuxToaster | I love the moments when you go "oh, wow, my code actually worked" until you realize you tested the wrong page or something. |
| 21:09.13 | TuxToaster | I've done that like, twice today even. |
| 21:10.38 | unum | I hate it when I do that |
| 21:10.47 | beandog | heh |
| 21:10.57 | unum | or worse is when you can't figure out why a change didn't seem to fix anything |
| 21:11.18 | unum | well you keep making changes until your realize you're looking at the production server |
| 21:11.23 | unum | and making changes on the dev server |
| 21:13.31 | beandog | thats why I do all my changes on the live server |
| 21:13.35 | beandog | makes it easier to just have one copy. |
| 21:13.44 | unum | sure does |
| 21:14.13 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:14.26 | TuxToaster | I used to do that. |
| 21:14.51 | TuxToaster | developing internal tools for use by employees.... not going to kill anyone if a page throws an error for a minute. |
| 21:15.27 | unum | and they won't test anything on the testing set up anyways |
| 21:15.31 | TuxToaster | developing a software product that's in use by a few hundred customers who freak out if the page takes 5 seconds to open: yeah. development sandbox it is. |
| 21:15.35 | unum | may as well just make changes in production :) |
| 21:17.03 | TuxToaster | my biggest complaint about development at the moment is the fact that we use SVN for all changes. |
| 21:17.19 | TuxToaster | so to test anything I have to commit to SVN and then update on the sandbox server. |
| 21:17.24 | macnewbold | ouch |
| 21:17.29 | macnewbold | don't have a local playground? |
| 21:17.35 | TuxToaster | on the bright side, we have a really good rollback method |
| 21:17.40 | TuxToaster | nope. |
| 21:18.18 | unum | I get to make a bunch of changes here in the next few days |
| 21:18.26 | unum | I've got to decide what I want to do |
| 21:18.36 | unum | I'll probably just leave all the code where it is |
| 21:18.49 | unum | and move the database |
| 21:19.02 | TuxToaster | I've got a bunch of changes to finish making... which means I should probably get back to work. lol. |
| 21:19.12 | macnewbold | svn works best when each dev has his own checkout where they can test things before committing |
| 21:19.16 | unum | my new server is supposed to get here tomorrow morning |
| 21:19.23 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: agreed. |
| 21:19.25 | macnewbold | in fact, one of our standards is that you can't commit anything that isn't working |
| 21:19.29 | unum | then the back up server won't be here until next week |
| 21:19.31 | macnewbold | and tested |
| 21:19.44 | macnewbold | under penalty of pain and maiming |
| 21:20.00 | TuxToaster | macnewbold: I think much of the reasoning for the current setup was just to track changes, and part of it was set up by a developer who really had very little clue. |
| 21:20.03 | unum | I have a friend at valve, I think they have the same policy |
| 21:20.13 | unum | if you break the build they break your foot :) |
| 21:20.37 | TuxToaster | I've been tempted to try git instead of SVN as well |
| 21:20.37 | unum | are you guys not running on linux boxes for your work stations? |
| 21:20.45 | beandog | I am |
| 21:20.54 | TuxToaster | we are on macs here. |
| 21:20.55 | beandog | nothing but for like 6 years |
| 21:21.04 | unum | I actually have three machines |
| 21:21.13 | unum | one of the linux machines is my dev enviroment |
| 21:21.21 | TuxToaster | I have linux installed on here if I reboot into it |
| 21:21.31 | unum | the other I use for text editing :) |
| 21:21.48 | TuxToaster | but for our setup macs have been easier. I tend to play and tweak at linux too much. hehe |
| 21:22.05 | unum | and then I run my web browser on windows(since that's what the users use) |
| 21:25.39 | supernovia | I run three laptops :-/ linux, mac, and windows |
| 21:26.01 | unum | no laptops for work stuff |
| 21:26.08 | unum | I dislike using laptops |
| 21:26.10 | supernovia | I use all three for work stuff |
| 21:26.14 | fungus | Mac and Linux for me. With windows in a VM |
| 21:26.19 | unum | and I don't use mac at all |
| 21:26.34 | unum | though if I was developing externally I'd find a way to test on it |
| 21:26.40 | unum | actually I do have an imac in my office |
| 21:26.50 | unum | I don't know if it even powers up |
| 21:30.00 | influx | You might find that it's a husk now. |
| 21:30.44 | supernovia | okay, I'm gonna go. hope to see you guys at UPHPU tonight! |
| 21:31.08 | *** part/#uphpu supernovia (~Adium@76.8.222.23) |
| 21:33.34 | unum | influx: is that because you stole all the hardware out of it? |
| 21:38.01 | fungus | G*d d*#$ Fscking Exchange! I want to rip out your throat. |
| 21:42.18 | influx | unum: ¿Qué? |
| 21:42.34 | influx | Too bad Exchange has no neck. |
| 21:42.47 | influx | unum: kidding |
| 21:43.46 | beandog | Okay ........ CI's DB functions aren't that great. -_- |
| 21:43.50 | beandog | no getOne, getCol, getAssoc, etc. |
| 21:44.01 | beandog | poo. |
| 21:44.59 | fungus | Doesn't CI use the ActiveRecord model? |
| 21:45.17 | beandog | fungus, thats what I thought ... but there's not much there |
| 21:45.26 | beandog | http://codeigniter.com/user_guide/database/active_record.html#select |
| 21:45.30 | fungus | You don't need those functions with active record |
| 21:45.40 | fungus | that's the "old way" of thinking |
| 21:45.41 | beandog | whoops wrong page |
| 21:45.43 | beandog | http://codeigniter.com/user_guide/database/results.html |
| 21:46.42 | beandog | fungus, what you mean |
| 21:47.12 | fungus | i'm now reading how CI implements it. |
| 21:48.39 | fungus | eww |
| 21:49.37 | fungus | they don't "get" ActiveRecord obviously |
| 21:50.47 | fungus | well.. your getOne is implemented via row() |
| 21:51.04 | beandog | row() would be getRow() |
| 21:51.08 | beandog | getOne selects first col, first row |
| 21:51.27 | fungus | well using the Active Record pattern, you don't do that. |
| 21:51.39 | fungus | You grab an object from the table and use the object |
| 21:52.16 | beandog | Ooh, perfect |
| 21:52.18 | beandog | MDB2 in CI |
| 21:52.22 | beandog | http://codeigniter.com/wiki/PEAR_MDB2_In_Codeignitor/ |
| 21:52.24 | beandog | \o/ |
| 21:52.40 | beandog | Which is a shame ... I actually like their other DB functions :T |
| 21:52.48 | beandog | but I can't go without my cool time-saving functions |
| 21:52.55 | beandog | I can't ... I won't! |
| 21:53.22 | fungus | AR is supposed to something wonderful |
| 21:53.41 | fungus | like: user = User.find('beandog') |
| 21:53.49 | *** join/#uphpu seant23 (~seant23@70.103.122.211) |
| 21:54.08 | fungus | then you get the full user object returned from the table. And you can read it's properties, and even make changes to it. |
| 21:54.10 | beandog | http://codeigniter.com/wiki/ActiveRecord_Class/ |
| 21:54.17 | beandog | ); |
| 21:54.17 | beandog | $me = $this->Person->find_by_first_name('Buddy'); |
| 21:54.45 | fungus | ok, there you go. I guess they hide that documentation? |
| 21:54.53 | beandog | it's an addon |
| 21:55.02 | beandog | man |
| 21:55.10 | beandog | bleh. |
| 21:55.16 | fungus | now that looks better |
| 21:55.26 | fungus | Not quite as pretty as SQLAlchemy or RoR |
| 21:58.24 | beandog | agreed |
| 21:58.24 | beandog | :T |
| 21:58.28 | beandog | total buzzkill |
| 21:58.30 | fungus | it's days like this that I want to go do some programming |
| 21:58.39 | fungus | Exchange fscking sucks! |
| 22:01.09 | fungus | I haven't played with CI for a very long time. Does it still bury everything in $this? |
| 22:01.23 | fungus | ever done a print_r($this)? |
| 22:02.48 | mindjuju | my arm smells like starbucks |
| 22:02.57 | beandog | Note: The Database classes can not be extended or replaced with your own classes, nor can the Loader class in PHP 4. All other classes are able to be replaced/extended. |
| 22:03.01 | beandog | grawr. |
| 22:03.54 | influx | mindjuju: the rest of my (cold, forgotten) coffee tasted like popcorn. |
| 22:04.04 | influx | unpopped kernels, to be exact. |
| 22:04.20 | beandog | I guess I'm gonna be writing my own functions .. |
| 22:10.00 | beandog | man |
| 22:10.02 | beandog | Im really bummed by that. |
| 22:10.03 | beandog | -_- |
| 22:10.15 | mindjuju | bummed by what? |
| 22:10.28 | DexterTheDragon | that he's not using python |
| 22:10.31 | beandog | caca db funcs in CI |
| 22:11.11 | mindjuju | sounds scary |
| 22:11.33 | carmony | bah, I keep getting distracted.... must... finish... slides... |
| 22:11.40 | mindjuju | i haven't gone more than a couple pagesin to CI documentation, maybe i should look at handwritten code for the site i need to change up |
| 22:12.01 | mindjuju | nobody distracted carmony! |
| 22:12.15 | mindjuju | in fact, it's new rule, nobody must type out carmony in IRC until after 7p |
| 22:12.24 | carmony | LOL :P |
| 22:12.31 | carmony | its a downed server that is the problem ;) |
| 22:12.42 | fungus | lol, if your PHP code looks like an SQL statement, do you really need that ugly/complicated API? |
| 22:12.46 | fungus | ~sql++ |
| 22:13.45 | carmony | I've had to reply back to the admins saying "No, read my first post in this ticket... this is the problem." "Yes, yes I can see that it is up and can ssh, that is not the problem... read my ticket." ..... "For the love of everything good, READ what I'm telling you. THE DRIVE WON'T MOUNT!" |
| 22:19.16 | jtsnow | beandog: maybe you should check out Kohana. It is a branch of CI that is a bit more flexible |
| 22:19.45 | beandog | jtsnow, oh yah? kk thx |
| 22:25.46 | mindjuju | i want a taco |
| 22:26.57 | fungus | i want a burrito |
| 22:27.28 | fungus | ~x es en burrito |
| 22:27.36 | fungus | gah! |
| 22:27.38 | DexterTheDragon | I want an enchilada |
| 22:27.47 | DexterTheDragon | haha baby donkey |
| 22:27.56 | fungus | ~x es en enchilada |
| 22:28.04 | fungus | hmph |
| 22:28.09 | fungus | ~x es en taco |
| 22:29.31 | fungus | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k64w3354kE |
| 22:29.47 | mindjuju | love that song |
| 22:30.31 | mindjuju | too bad its not the full song |
| 22:43.24 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 22:49.55 | beandog | my brain is lamblasted. |
| 22:51.00 | influx | cedwards: Hmm??? |
| 22:51.35 | cedwards | influx: you know, just another day in the battle with html and css for us normal folk ;) |
| 22:51.53 | influx | Ha. |
| 22:52.03 | unum | I think that's why I can't do design |
| 22:52.06 | influx | I'm hardly above normal. |
| 22:52.07 | unum | I don't have the patience |
| 22:52.34 | influx | I think at this point it's still more of a browser-compatiblity issue. |
| 22:52.45 | influx | Or enough of one to make things kind of hairy at times. |
| 22:53.20 | unum | well there's a lot of trial and error that goes into making things look good in the first place |
| 22:53.28 | unum | and THEN you deal with the browser issues |
| 22:53.32 | influx | When you don't plan, yeah. |
| 22:53.40 | influx | Or do research. |
| 22:53.53 | cedwards | I am not even near bothering to think about browser compatibility issues. |
| 22:53.55 | influx | It's best to approach it with both issues in mind. |
| 22:54.16 | influx | Using browser quirks as guidelines/constraints. |
| 22:54.17 | unum | but see planning and research take time as well |
| 22:54.25 | influx | But it's not exclusive to design. |
| 22:54.31 | unum | I just don't have the patience |
| 22:54.53 | unum | well I guess a lot of it has to do with experience |
| 22:55.03 | influx | I'm inclined to agree. |
| 22:55.13 | unum | I don't have to a lot of research to program because I do it a lot |
| 22:55.24 | influx | Right. |
| 22:55.25 | unum | I already have a lot of it in my head |
| 22:55.31 | influx | And when you first began? |
| 22:55.39 | unum | 20 years ago? |
| 22:55.42 | unum | I can't remember |
| 22:55.44 | unum | :p |
| 22:55.48 | influx | Yeah. Okay. |
| 22:56.03 | unum | well I went to several years of school for programming as well |
| 22:56.25 | unum | that's why I recommend a professional designer when I'm talking to people about designing websites |
| 22:56.25 | influx | But you didn't go into it knowing all there was to know, I assume. |
| 22:56.30 | influx | Right. |
| 22:57.25 | influx | And it's time to hit the pavement. |
| 22:58.52 | unum | it reminds me of the arguments of the free trade people |
| 22:59.03 | unum | you should hire who ever is most effecient |
| 22:59.07 | mindjuju | beandog, have you seen these tuts |
| 22:59.08 | mindjuju | http://codeigniter.com/tutorials/watch/intro/ |
| 22:59.09 | unum | I was in the argument recently and lost |
| 22:59.15 | beandog | mindjuju, yah |
| 23:02.47 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 23:02.47 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 23:02.52 | beandog | Hmm |
| 23:02.57 | beandog | I guess you can write a function inside a function. |
| 23:04.29 | beandog | Yay |
| 23:04.32 | beandog | I got MDB2 tied into CI |
| 23:04.40 | beandog | better than the wiki, too |
| 23:04.56 | mindjuju | ^5 beandog |
| 23:10.10 | mindjuju | this one on creatign a blog looks pretty cool |
| 23:14.06 | beandog | oh I didnt watch that one |
| 23:14.07 | beandog | too long |
| 23:14.46 | beandog | no way |
| 23:14.48 | beandog | http://www.neatorama.com/neatogeek/2010/05/20/riker-and-troi-together-again/ |
| 23:15.02 | beandog | a star trek sitcom |
| 23:15.19 | mindjuju | you may want to dig up some popcorn, he's talking about db conn, how it works everythig |
| 23:16.05 | beandog | thats hilarious |
| 23:16.27 | mindjuju | troi, psh |
| 23:16.33 | mindjuju | crusher, RARRR! |
| 23:19.19 | fungus | lol "old baldy" |
| 23:19.25 | mindjuju | :) |
