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| 07:20.13 | *** topic/#UPHPU is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
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| 15:20.18 | macnewbold | ~monday |
| 15:20.19 | ibot | monday is probably when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems that it takes you until friday to get back to normal. at which point one more thing breaks that takes you the whole weekend to fix, or and on a more positive note, Monday is a brand new day at the beginning of a brand new week, a place to start over and improve on last week. :), or the end of the weekend, a.k.a. the weekendend |
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| 15:37.23 | beandog | heh |
| 15:37.26 | beandog | nice description |
| 15:41.35 | Utah_Dave | ~woot |
| 15:41.36 | ibot | \o/ |
| 15:42.00 | Utah_Dave | I was just notified that my TS finally went through. What a pain. |
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| 15:45.38 | herlo | what's a 'TS'? |
| 15:46.30 | Utah_Dave | a top secret security clearance. |
| 15:46.47 | mgeary | ~admire Utah_Dave |
| 15:46.48 | ibot | ACTION secretly and androgynously wishes it were just like Utah_Dave |
| 15:46.54 | herlo | Utah_Dave: ahh |
| 15:47.37 | Utah_Dave | I just wish it would get me through airline security faster! |
| 15:47.50 | herlo | lol |
| 15:48.21 | herlo | whith a last name like Boucha, they have to do strip searches every time I'm sure! |
| 15:50.18 | herlo | :P |
| 15:50.39 | Utah_Dave | about 5 years ago they made me unzip my pants right in front of everyone so the security guy could put the back of his hand on my groin area |
| 15:50.50 | Utah_Dave | I should have asked for a private room. |
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| 15:53.06 | herlo | Utah_Dave: whoa! |
| 15:53.23 | herlo | I've traveled a ton, and never had that happen to me |
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| 15:55.09 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, I should have filed a complaint or something. If they felt they need to search me that thoroughly they should have taken me to a more private area |
| 15:56.05 | beandog | Just be sure to eat a lot of chili dogs before. |
| 15:58.42 | influx | ... |
| 15:58.43 | utosbot | influx: Error: ".." is not a valid command. |
| 15:58.59 | beandog | ~smack utosbot |
| 15:59.00 | ibot | ACTION smacks utosbot upside the head. |
| 15:59.21 | beandog | ~botwars |
| 15:59.56 | beandog | influx, I imagine the search would be short-lived if you were putting off some strong odors |
| 16:01.24 | influx | I agree. |
| 16:01.38 | influx | He'd definitely want a private room then. |
| 16:02.14 | beandog | or just say something like "I'm pretty sure the rash isn't contagious." |
| 16:03.16 | Utah_Dave | there you go, beandog |
| 16:09.43 | beandog | ~SunSparc++ |
| 16:10.08 | SunSparc | Whoa, whahuh?! |
| 16:10.55 | SunSparc | beandog: What was that for? |
| 16:11.52 | beandog | twitter |
| 16:12.06 | SunSparc | Heh, the smoke monster. |
| 16:12.30 | beandog | that was funny |
| 16:12.30 | beandog | :) |
| 16:12.40 | SunSparc | Yeah, too clever. |
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| 17:18.42 | Utah_Dave | romanovic: is your full time job with the Guard? |
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| 17:25.10 | romanovic | Utah_Dave: no, at least not for the next few weeks. My civ job is at L-3 |
| 17:25.46 | Utah_Dave | ok, we're looking to hire 2 Guard members as full time IT staff. |
| 17:26.09 | Utah_Dave | If you know anybody good please pass on my info |
| 17:26.59 | romanovic | Sure will. You're out at camp williams right? |
| 17:27.41 | Utah_Dave | Yep. Camp Williams. I think they'd even consider someone for just a summer hire |
| 17:29.57 | Utah_Dave | Hey, herlo, want to join the Army and come work with me? They pay for your clothes and everything! |
| 17:31.40 | romanovic | What's the pay like for IT work with the NG? |
| 17:32.09 | Utah_Dave | You get paid by your rank. Which can be a good thing or a bad thing |
| 17:33.05 | Utah_Dave | You get food and housing pay, etc. |
| 17:33.40 | romanovic | i mean, if you're civilian |
| 17:34.05 | Utah_Dave | Well, in my case we're employees of the State of Utah. |
| 17:34.11 | romanovic | oh |
| 17:34.51 | Utah_Dave | The actual IT "technicians" get paid on the federal scale. I think they get paid fairly well for an IT job |
| 17:46.40 | romanovic | i would actually probably earn more with base pay + housing + subsistence allowance than I do now with my contract @ L-3... I would look into it if I weren't getting deployed in the near future |
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| 18:05.29 | supernovia | d'oh. looks like I forgot my power cord. :-p |
| 18:05.44 | mindjuju | how long of battery do you have? |
| 18:06.08 | supernovia | about 20 m left. it goes for about 3 hours |
| 18:06.22 | supernovia | granted I have to spend lots of time in my vm running flash. good times. |
| 18:23.21 | supernovia | thanks TuxToaster |
| 18:24.20 | TuxToaster | :-) |
| 18:24.25 | TuxToaster | anyone ever use PHPIDS? |
| 18:26.04 | TuxToaster | cya |
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| 18:32.49 | TuxToaster | actually different question, any suggestions for how to handle multiple language support efficiently? |
| 18:33.19 | TuxToaster | I've seen everything from XML files to database references to flat files with constants. |
| 18:33.19 | beandog | gettext |
| 18:33.25 | beandog | gettext++ |
| 18:34.46 | beandog | http://www.php.net/manual/en/intro.gettext.php |
| 18:35.01 | TuxToaster | yeah already looking at that :-) |
| 18:35.23 | TuxToaster | the only problem for now is going to be how to do it in Lasso. hehe. |
| 18:35.34 | TuxToaster | all the more reason I want to just move stuff to PHP. |
| 18:36.29 | mgeary | django++ |
| 18:36.30 | macnewbold | oh boy |
| 18:36.39 | TuxToaster | mgeary: lol |
| 18:36.40 | macnewbold | django-- |
| 18:37.29 | mgeary | what's not to like about django? |
| 18:37.35 | TuxToaster | I don't know django incredibly well, but at the time we were considering Python, it just didn't seem like a good fit. |
| 18:37.48 | mgeary | best part of it is that you get to code in python, rather than PHP |
| 18:37.50 | beandog | DexterTheDragon, pingeh |
| 18:38.05 | TuxToaster | mgeary: sometimes I don't understand why you hang out in a PHP room if you like Python better :P |
| 18:38.07 | DexterTheDragon | beandog: suppuh |
| 18:38.34 | mgeary | TuxToaster: anyone who likes PHP better than Python doesn't know enough about PHP *and* Python ;) |
| 18:38.50 | mindjuju | when will the violence against innocent tofu end!?! http://games.adultswim.com/tofu-hunter-action-online-game.html |
| 18:38.53 | beandog | I think I might agree with that. |
| 18:38.53 | TuxToaster | I've dabbled in Python and done a few small projects in it, but I'm not at the point where I can just sit down and start writing code |
| 18:38.59 | mgeary | i hang out here 'cause i've got ~9 years of PHP dev experience, versus ~2.5 years of python experience |
| 18:39.07 | mgeary | and i also hang out in #utahpython |
| 18:39.14 | TuxToaster | hehe |
| 18:39.21 | mindjuju | that's personally why i eat meat, at least meat has a chance to fight back, not like a carrot or lettuce |
| 18:39.27 | mindjuju | tomatos fight back though |
| 18:39.30 | TuxToaster | mindjuju: lol |
| 18:39.42 | beandog | vegetarians are people who just eat things that don't verbally scream when dying |
| 18:39.58 | beandog | or something like that. |
| 18:40.00 | beandog | ~misquote |
| 18:40.03 | mindjuju | d00d tuxtoaster, have you seen attack of the killer tomoatoes? |
| 18:40.08 | mindjuju | v scary |
| 18:40.11 | TuxToaster | nope |
| 18:40.24 | beandog | mindjuju, rly? |
| 18:40.29 | mindjuju | rly |
| 18:40.29 | mgeary | TuxToaster: if you take that approach, you'll never get better at Python. You've gotta just take a (new) project, and commit to doing it in Python. You solve problems and learn as you go. As long as you know it *can* be done in Python, you can figure out how |
| 18:40.44 | TuxToaster | mgeary: I agree. |
| 18:40.45 | mindjuju | fungus should know about the horrible treatment to tofu as they harvest it |
| 18:40.46 | mindjuju | it's sad |
| 18:40.58 | mgeary | granted, your first project like that will be a lot less elegant than your 10th, but you've got to start somewhere |
| 18:41.20 | influx | ^ |
| 18:41.26 | TuxToaster | mgeary: unfortunately, though, it was decided that we were not going with Python when one of our other developers left the company. |
| 18:41.39 | mgeary | yeah, i know. not trying to persuade you |
| 18:41.44 | mgeary | just blathering on |
| 18:41.47 | TuxToaster | and since I already know PHP really well, they decided to go with that. |
| 18:41.50 | TuxToaster | yeah I know. |
| 18:41.56 | TuxToaster | I really want to dig in to py |
| 18:42.06 | TuxToaster | I actually had my blog written in django. |
| 18:42.18 | TuxToaster | moved it to WP though. :( |
| 18:43.17 | TuxToaster | at any rate, PHP is still WAAAAY better than Lasso. |
| 18:43.21 | TuxToaster | so it's still an improvement :D |
| 18:43.22 | SunSparc | Anyone here using Internet Explorer? |
| 18:43.28 | TuxToaster | eww. |
| 18:43.31 | SunSparc | heh |
| 18:43.35 | SunSparc | ~karma IE |
| 18:43.35 | ibot | ie has karma of -666 |
| 18:43.36 | mindjuju | i'm playing tofu hunter in IE 8 as we speak |
| 18:43.38 | TuxToaster | I have to use it on occasion |
| 18:43.48 | TuxToaster | but I avoid it when I can. |
| 18:43.52 | SunSparc | mindjuju: Would you be willing to view something for me? |
| 18:43.59 | SunSparc | TuxToaster: Ditto |
| 18:44.03 | mindjuju | as long nas it is more tofu hunter |
| 18:44.31 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:44.40 | mindjuju | what you got |
| 18:44.42 | SunSparc | http://bemoneysmart.org/img/entries/VideoThumbsHome/2010_79.jpg |
| 18:44.55 | SunSparc | Does that images display for you? |
| 18:45.06 | mindjuju | nope |
| 18:45.09 | SunSparc | I have checked it in IE 6&7 and it just shows a red x. |
| 18:45.19 | SunSparc | In other browsers it works fine. |
| 18:45.58 | josephscott | guessing content sniffing |
| 18:45.58 | SunSparc | IE is apparently very special and chooses not to view these particular JPG images. |
| 18:46.21 | SunSparc | josephscott: Could be. It is hosted within a financial institution. |
| 18:46.41 | beandog | content sniffing? |
| 18:47.01 | SunSparc | Except that it works in other browsers. |
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| 18:47.06 | josephscott | some browsers will skip the content type in the http head |
| 18:47.08 | josephscott | header |
| 18:47.23 | josephscott | in favor of the first few bytes of the file |
| 18:47.43 | josephscott | which has led to some interesting security holes |
| 18:48.29 | SunSparc | That could be. |
| 18:48.34 | TuxToaster | pear search gettext |
| 18:48.37 | TuxToaster | err |
| 18:48.41 | TuxToaster | yeah that was awesome |
| 18:48.46 | beandog | TuxToaster, its native to PHP |
| 18:48.47 | SunSparc | Although, I seem to remember testing this site in IE before it went live. |
| 18:49.04 | beandog | Oh, wait |
| 18:49.05 | beandog | n/m |
| 18:50.26 | TuxToaster | brb |
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| 19:00.58 | macnewbold | SunSparc: i found your problem |
| 19:01.12 | macnewbold | that image is a proper JPEG, but instead of RGB colorspace, |
| 19:01.15 | macnewbold | it uses CMYK colorspace |
| 19:01.18 | macnewbold | which some browsers |
| 19:01.24 | macnewbold | are not yet smart enough to interpret properly |
| 19:01.37 | SunSparc | macnewbold: sweet! |
| 19:01.37 | beandog | Are you insinuating that IE is a sub-par browse? |
| 19:01.40 | beandog | *browser |
| 19:01.44 | beandog | Inconceivable! |
| 19:02.07 | SunSparc | macnewbold: I was thinking it may be something about the format of the images. I guess I will just convert them. |
| 19:02.09 | beandog | SunSparc, Just file a bug and try the nightly builds |
| 19:02.17 | SunSparc | macnewbold: thanks for the help |
| 19:02.18 | macnewbold | unfortunately, it isn't the first time I've seen this happen, so now it's one of the first things I look for when images are behaving oddly in some browsers |
| 19:02.22 | SunSparc | beandog: lol |
| 19:02.22 | macnewbold | np |
| 19:02.26 | beandog | lols |
| 19:02.41 | macnewbold | imagemagick's identify -verbose $filename| grep -i colorspace |
| 19:02.55 | SunSparc | macnewbold: Yeah, I seem to remember hearing about something like this before. |
| 19:03.09 | macnewbold | yeah, it's been a problem for like 5 years or so |
| 19:03.14 | SunSparc | macnewbold: Ooooh, nice addition for my toolbox. |
| 19:03.22 | macnewbold | but now it's pretty much only IE that doesn't support them I think |
| 19:03.54 | SunSparc | Why am I not surprised? I think I am going to have a heart attack and die from Not Surprise. |
| 19:03.59 | SunSparc | (name that movie) |
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| 19:07.22 | beandog | Ooh |
| 19:07.24 | beandog | Aladdin |
| 19:07.30 | SunSparc | Ding! |
| 19:07.35 | beandog | fries are done! |
| 19:07.38 | SunSparc | lol |
| 19:07.51 | beandog | I beat fungus! |
| 19:07.55 | beandog | I didnt even have to use IMDB |
| 19:07.55 | beandog | :D |
| 19:08.12 | SunSparc | beandog: Good Jorb! |
| 19:08.24 | beandog | whats my prize? |
| 19:08.27 | SunSparc | ~beandog++ |
| 19:08.28 | beandog | free month of hosting? \o/ |
| 19:08.39 | SunSparc | lol |
| 19:08.55 | SunSparc | You still looking for hosting? |
| 19:09.13 | beandog | SunSparc, not proactively. I need to find something else t hough. |
| 19:09.23 | beandog | I have an awesome stress test that my scripts run now that I can try on other providers. |
| 19:09.30 | beandog | It brought my Linode to its knees pretty quickly. |
| 19:09.31 | beandog | :T |
| 19:09.58 | beandog | postgres + linode = random unhappiness |
| 19:10.57 | herlo | Utah_Dave: no army for me, thanks |
| 19:13.18 | Utah_Dave | romanovic: are you deploying with the 141? |
| 19:14.01 | romanovic | Utah_Dave: yep, you familiar with some guys in the unit? |
| 19:14.29 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, several guys I work with are in the 141 |
| 19:15.38 | romanovic | cool. Its a good unit. |
| 19:15.45 | SunSparc | beandog: I can set you up a free month so you can test a machine if you want. |
| 19:15.59 | Utah_Dave | yeah, that's what I've heard. |
| 19:16.03 | beandog | SunSparc, now isn't the best time, I have a few other fires in the works |
| 19:16.17 | SunSparc | beandog: I know how that goes. |
| 19:16.31 | SunSparc | Let me know if you want to take me up on it though. |
| 19:16.36 | Utah_Dave | romanovic: When you get back, hit me up. We might have a position open. |
| 19:16.46 | beandog | SunSparc, sure thing, thank you |
| 19:16.50 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:17.32 | SunSparc | Speaking of positions open, we have 2 open for Flex devs, if any of you know some. |
| 19:18.59 | romanovic | Utah_Dave: I will, I'll probably be looking for work about 3 weeks after i get back |
| 19:19.57 | Utah_Dave | cool. |
| 19:20.03 | romanovic | If i can get a stable internet connection in-country, i'll be hanging around #uphpu still |
| 19:20.35 | Utah_Dave | romanovic: :) One of my buddies is planning on playing Command and Conquer with us while over there. |
| 19:21.28 | romanovic | red alert 3? |
| 19:24.29 | Utah_Dave | no, Generals |
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| 19:25.15 | Utah_Dave | Do you know Grant Watson? |
| 19:27.24 | romanovic | Utah_Dave: heh, yep... I wasn't going to ask you any names in irc, but that was the first name that came to mind when you said you did IT stuff. I knew he did IT stuff for the guard too |
| 19:28.40 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, we've been friends and worked together for 4 or 5 years now. |
| 19:28.52 | Utah_Dave | Top notch guy. |
| 19:29.11 | Utah_Dave | We served in the same mission, too, although we only ran into eachother once there |
| 19:33.07 | romanovic | cool. yeah he's loaded with digital media for the deployment too... |
| 19:34.01 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 19:34.20 | romanovic | so I don't foresee becoming bored in my downtime for lack of tv/movies |
| 19:35.10 | Utah_Dave | Yeah. If you like video games, you might ask him as well. |
| 19:36.37 | romanovic | Are you on steam? maybe i'll join you if you have some c&c planned... |
| 19:36.55 | Utah_Dave | yeah, I am. |
| 19:37.14 | Utah_Dave | utah_dave |
| 19:37.41 | Utah_Dave | We usually play over hamachi as well. |
| 19:38.08 | mgeary | it sure aint my grandfather's military.... |
| 19:38.19 | Utah_Dave | :) yeah. |
| 19:38.45 | romanovic | mgeary: nope. at least, not when you get to be stationed at an air force base :) |
| 19:39.12 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, the air force seems to really take care of their people. |
| 19:39.20 | TuxToaster | back |
| 19:39.48 | romanovic | in my eyes, they "take care" way in excess |
| 19:40.12 | TuxToaster | so, looking at gettext, it looks like there is an issue with it caching files, and needing to restart the webserver to clear the cache? |
| 19:42.00 | romanovic | Utah_Dave: i think my user on steam is "cyberplik" but can't remember for sure. I'll add you when I get home. |
| 19:42.14 | Utah_Dave | cool |
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| 19:59.08 | mgeary | ~rlart |
| 19:59.09 | ibot | makes a balloon animal out of burnin_ |
| 20:01.34 | TuxToaster | mgeary: question about gettext if you don't mind. |
| 20:02.05 | mgeary | i don't think i've ever used gettext to any serious degree... |
| 20:02.10 | TuxToaster | kk |
| 20:02.31 | TuxToaster | It looks really easy to work with. |
| 20:02.57 | TuxToaster | but 1) apparently you often have to reastart the web server to reload files and 2) most of the files are edited externally |
| 20:03.12 | TuxToaster | hoping to allow customers to provide their own translations |
| 20:03.31 | TuxToaster | so writing things out to a text file or database might work better |
| 20:04.34 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 20:05.57 | supernovia | talking to hostways's tech support. Sigh. |
| 20:05.57 | supernovia | always fun when clients choose stinky providers. |
| 20:06.02 | TuxToaster | btw, supernovia: I ran into some shoehorns at IKEA the other day... |
| 20:06.15 | supernovia | did you? I still haven't been up there to get them |
| 20:06.19 | romanovic | mgeary: any word on the 3rd page? |
| 20:06.22 | supernovia | or rather, to em, see if they can fix Anne :-p |
| 20:07.21 | mgeary | romanovic: we're here right now: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell |
| 20:07.21 | TuxToaster | hehe |
| 20:07.25 | TuxToaster | what color is hers? |
| 20:07.53 | mgeary | romanovic: so it'll probably be a bit yet |
| 20:08.21 | TuxToaster | supernovia: I seriously would have grabbed one and brought it to you if I'd known you didn't get one :-) |
| 20:08.29 | supernovia | hehe |
| 20:08.40 | supernovia | Hers is white with red decorations and she looooves it |
| 20:08.43 | TuxToaster | mgeary: lol. I love that page. |
| 20:08.48 | romanovic | mgeary: heh, understood. |
| 20:08.49 | supernovia | i love that page too mgeary |
| 20:09.37 | supernovia | I am almost considering 'adopting' a brother for Anne so she'll have someone to play with. And then maybe my girl wouldn't noticed her precious shoehorn was replaced rather than repaired. |
| 20:09.56 | TuxToaster | hehe |
| 20:10.00 | TuxToaster | they have black ones |
| 20:10.01 | supernovia | some kids have imaginary friends. |
| 20:10.12 | supernovia | Yeah they do. did they still have the white ones too? |
| 20:10.21 | TuxToaster | yup I think so |
| 20:10.35 | supernovia | (my kid just makes friends of everyday objects) |
| 20:10.57 | supernovia | coolio julio. I should head up there soon. |
| 20:11.10 | supernovia | maybe thursday. :) |
| 20:11.52 | TuxToaster | now that mgeary got me distracted reading that page again... |
| 20:12.00 | supernovia | man, these guys have a GD script that stops working after they move to a new server |
| 20:12.01 | TuxToaster | it so reminds me of some of our clients. |
| 20:12.06 | supernovia | and their host can't own up to GD not working anymore |
| 20:12.16 | supernovia | hehe, yeah it's a good one TuxToaster |
| 20:12.47 | TuxToaster | hehe |
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| 20:25.48 | TuxToaster | lol... Google AJAX Language API. |
| 20:25.55 | TuxToaster | let Google translate the page for you. |
| 20:26.10 | TuxToaster | somehow, I don't think that one would be a good idea |
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| 20:46.04 | TuxToaster | http://devzone.zend.com/article/4469 <-- this is interesting. Wondering how well it would scale. |
| 20:46.06 | supernovia | /me dozed off |
| 20:47.09 | josephscott | TuxToaster: data like that is likely to do well being cached |
| 20:47.13 | supernovia | or maybe it just dozed off as well. |
| 20:47.38 | TuxToaster | josephscott: I'm wondering how the caching would work though. |
| 20:47.41 | supernovia | ever have that feeling where you fall asleep unintentionally and you wake up, heart pouding over what you missed.. and it's like, 2 minutes later? |
| 20:48.02 | josephscott | TuxToaster: memcached would be one option, there are plenty of others |
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| 20:48.38 | TuxToaster | josephscott: so would it be caching the actual output of the pages, or... ? |
| 20:48.50 | TuxToaster | I haven't had a chance to tinker with memcached yet |
| 20:49.18 | beandog | Okay |
| 20:49.20 | josephscott | cache at what ever layer makes sense, WP does full page caching with the batcache plugin (uses memcached) |
| 20:49.23 | beandog | I think Im gonna try git+ssh now ... |
| 20:49.28 | beandog | once I get drunk first. |
| 20:50.18 | TuxToaster | josephscott: I already put APC on it, but I need to look at memcached a bit more. |
| 20:50.48 | TuxToaster | it's for an ecommerce site, so caching is both desired (since it will see a lot of activity) and not wanted (to make sure data is current) :-) |
| 20:51.00 | josephscott | APC is good for local caching, if you only have one web server and don't mind having the cache tied to the php/web server process then that works well |
| 20:51.37 | TuxToaster | are there any reasons you couldn't use APC on multiple servers? |
| 20:52.09 | josephscott | APC is an in process cache |
| 20:52.25 | josephscott | it doesn't have a network API, so there is no way to share the cache across multiple web servers |
| 20:52.40 | josephscott | memcached is designed to just provide a network enabled cache store |
| 20:52.57 | TuxToaster | yeah I get that :-) just wondering if there are any possible caveats to using it (installed on each server) |
| 20:53.12 | josephscott | I'd use APC on every PHP web server |
| 20:53.15 | TuxToaster | kk |
| 20:53.22 | TuxToaster | that's what I'm planning on doing |
| 20:53.30 | josephscott | imho you'd need a really, really, REALLY good reason not to. |
| 20:53.52 | beandog | mindjuju, ping |
| 20:53.53 | TuxToaster | I don't have one. |
| 20:53.57 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 20:54.29 | TuxToaster | what about using memcached for content that *needs* to be current, such as a shopping cart / eCommerce style site |
| 20:54.40 | DexterTheDragon | ~rlart |
| 20:54.41 | ibot | moos at cycokilr |
| 20:54.55 | josephscott | that's where cache invalidations and updates come in |
| 20:55.11 | josephscott | you can also just not cache things in certain part of the site or for specific types of requests |
| 20:55.21 | TuxToaster | hmm. |
| 20:55.32 | josephscott | it's just code ;-) |
| 20:56.00 | TuxToaster | mostly I'm just trying to find the best way to handle multiple languages right now. But it's turning into more discoveries. |
| 20:56.01 | TuxToaster | hehe |
| 20:56.24 | TuxToaster | also might get implemented in Lasso and then moved to PHP later, unless I get my way of doing it sooner. |
| 20:58.17 | TuxToaster | what I'm seriously tempted to do is to just have different HTML templates for each language and have some logic to include the correct template |
| 20:58.32 | TuxToaster | then build a simple UI for the customer to be able to edit the template. |
| 21:00.11 | TuxToaster | :P |
| 21:00.40 | romanovic | I looked into using wordpress, but was very disappointed when it didn't even have the functionality to require a login, except with a plugin |
| 21:00.48 | josephscott | TuxToaster: you can also look at gettext for translation |
| 21:01.14 | josephscott | romanovic: that's intentional, WP tries to provide a good base, but no solve every problem. |
| 21:01.37 | josephscott | s/but/but not to/ |
| 21:01.52 | TuxToaster | josephscott: that was the first thing I looked at actually. It looks really good, but the two things I ran into is 1) you have to restart the webserver to reload the language files and 2) it doesn't look like I could give the user the ability to edit the files |
| 21:01.55 | josephscott | wow, that wasn't the search and replace I meant to do :-) |
| 21:02.14 | romanovic | understood. and if wp provides the most intuitive framework (from a development standpoint) I'll still go ahead and use it |
| 21:02.19 | josephscott | TuxToaster: WP has it's own gettext functions, doesn't have either of those problems |
| 21:02.54 | beandog | Uh, you have to restart apache if you get a new language |
| 21:02.58 | TuxToaster | josephscott: does WP allow someone to edit the translated version of the code through the UI? |
| 21:03.02 | beandog | Thats a really annoying issue. |
| 21:03.11 | beandog | I can verify that one. |
| 21:03.31 | TuxToaster | yeah I saw several mentions of that when I was looking at it. there were a couple of hacks around it |
| 21:03.34 | josephscott | TuxToaster: one of the guys wrote a web app that is used to update the translation files |
| 21:03.37 | beandog | TuxToaster, you give the users the translation template, then upload the converted one yourself |
| 21:03.59 | TuxToaster | beandog: wouldn't work for what we need then. |
| 21:03.59 | beandog | I dont remember if you have to restart / reload on changes though |
| 21:04.01 | beandog | I dont think so |
| 21:04.01 | josephscott | yeah, I've never had to restart a web server to make new WP translations work |
| 21:04.06 | TuxToaster | hmm. |
| 21:04.15 | TuxToaster | sounds like I might have to look at the WP code a bit |
| 21:05.02 | TuxToaster | effectively we want the customer to be able to go to an admin UI and make some changes to the translation text, hit save, and see them on their site immediately |
| 21:05.09 | TuxToaster | (or within a reasonable amount of time) :-) |
| 21:05.28 | beandog | Now |
| 21:05.30 | beandog | If you used PHP CGI |
| 21:05.35 | beandog | Then you wouldnt have to restart anything |
| 21:05.48 | TuxToaster | beandog: that might be doable. |
| 21:05.49 | beandog | ++ |
| 21:06.03 | TuxToaster | my personal favorite setup is lighttpd + PHP fastCGI |
| 21:06.06 | beandog | makes many things so much simpler |
| 21:06.09 | josephscott | beandog: fastcgi, even better :-) |
| 21:06.15 | beandog | Yah, Im not a fan of lighttpd |
| 21:06.23 | josephscott | nginx + fastcgi + php |
| 21:06.34 | beandog | josephscott, I can never remmeber if I use fastcgi or fcgid |
| 21:06.40 | TuxToaster | but not sure if I can convince him to let me change it up for that. |
| 21:06.56 | josephscott | lighttpd still has some odd memory leak, at least the last time I checked |
| 21:06.58 | TuxToaster | at one point he was good with changing the server, now he's avoided it |
| 21:07.10 | TuxToaster | josephscott: I haven't hit it that I know of |
| 21:07.21 | TuxToaster | not to say we wouldn't in a larger system though. |
| 21:07.39 | TuxToaster | I've used it for several internal boxes at another job as well as my own stuff, no problems at all |
| 21:08.01 | TuxToaster | all on Debian... other distros might have different results tho |
| 21:08.12 | TuxToaster | like if I did it here it'd be on CentOS |
| 21:08.19 | beandog | apache + suexec + php + cgi == happiness |
| 21:09.31 | TuxToaster | ok, since we're on the subject... what are some of the benefits of (f)CGI over the mod_php? |
| 21:09.49 | beandog | well, like gettext above |
| 21:09.50 | TuxToaster | threading and multiple processes is one, isn't it? |
| 21:09.52 | beandog | threading |
| 21:09.55 | beandog | yah |
| 21:09.57 | beandog | permissions |
| 21:10.04 | beandog | memory |
| 21:10.06 | josephscott | beandog: no fastcgi daemon for php? without that you'd have to start new php processes for each request |
| 21:10.24 | beandog | josephscott, I dont remember which one Im using |
| 21:10.35 | josephscott | reasonable separation of tasks |
| 21:10.55 | TuxToaster | hmm. |
| 21:11.16 | josephscott | for instance, if you have one server that handles images, CSS, JS and PHP requests, then you are paying the cost of PHP over head for items that don' t need it |
| 21:11.33 | TuxToaster | good point |
| 21:11.45 | TuxToaster | right now I'm sure it's worse with the Lasso connector though. hehe |
| 21:12.25 | josephscott | that's one approach, depends on your needs |
| 21:12.37 | josephscott | CDNs are good for that sort of thing too |
| 21:12.47 | TuxToaster | right now just trying to make sure things are scalable |
| 21:12.55 | TuxToaster | or, will be when I get done with them anyways. |
| 21:13.27 | TuxToaster | the existing app handles reasonably well actually... but not sure how well it would do with a heavier load |
| 21:13.48 | josephscott | it's about finding the right fit for your needs |
| 21:14.34 | TuxToaster | in my case, it's also about getting the person in charge to let me do it :-) |
| 21:14.53 | josephscott | haha |
| 21:15.52 | TuxToaster | right now we are just building core services in PHP so we can migrate some stuff to ask the PHP boxes to take care of them |
| 21:15.56 | beandog | TuxToaster, http://znurt.org/linguas gettext at work :D |
| 21:16.47 | TuxToaster | but on the side we have some other requests coming in for language templating and support, and I'm really thinking it'd be easier to rewrite our ecommerce application into PHP and implement gettext/translation2/somethingelse than it would be to make it work in Lasso. |
| 21:18.07 | TuxToaster | yeah it seems like using gettext would be really efficient if I can make it easy to edit/manage the content |
| 21:18.33 | beandog | Ooh, git colors |
| 21:18.36 | beandog | ~git++ |
| 21:20.37 | TuxToaster | hmm |
| 21:20.45 | TuxToaster | the l10n.php file in WP is interesting... |
| 21:33.44 | TuxToaster | ouch |
| 21:34.27 | romanovic | but apparently "other offices are cool in the morning so we're not turning on the ac yet" |
| 21:36.07 | fungus | lol, "Or just get rid of emacs. Your problem has nothing to do with git, and |
| 21:36.07 | fungus | everything to do with emacs. And then you have the _gall_ to talk about |
| 21:36.07 | fungus | "unix design" and not gumming programs together, when you yourself use the |
| 21:36.07 | fungus | most gummed-up piece of absolute sh*t there is!" |
| 21:36.33 | fungus | -- Linus Torvalds. |
| 21:36.52 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:37.03 | fungus | I love how he doesn't try to mince words to make people happy. |
| 21:37.26 | josephscott | wow, I don't often find myself agreeing with Linus, but that was pretty spot on ;-) |
| 21:38.01 | TuxToaster | heh. just had a customer send an email that someone was booking a flight when a power outage occured. |
| 21:38.26 | TuxToaster | using the website. It created the reservation but didn't get far enough to insert the passengers to the db. |
| 21:38.52 | TuxToaster | I find it sad that it took long enough that they could actually break it at that point, should have literally been milliseconds. |
| 21:39.43 | fungus | ~transactions++ |
| 21:40.06 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 21:40.35 | TuxToaster | that's the thing... I'm pretty sure it is in a transaction. and if it's not... very sad. |
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| 21:50.37 | TuxToaster | nope, not in a transaction. grr. |
| 21:51.14 | TuxToaster | at least not all of it is. |
| 21:52.30 | jsmith-teaching | That's the problem with most web developers I interact with... they don't care to learn about transactions and foreign keys :-( |
| 21:52.42 | TuxToaster | yup. |
| 21:52.57 | TuxToaster | many no very little about SQL beyond doing a query. |
| 21:53.02 | TuxToaster | like the guy who wrote half of this |
| 21:53.35 | TuxToaster | or, they know a bit, but think they are experts. like the guy who wrote the other half. |
| 21:53.36 | TuxToaster | :-) |
| 21:53.48 | jsmith-teaching | :-) |
| 21:56.49 | TuxToaster | gah. and to add insult to injury, the session was on a different webserver that didn't have logging enabled. |
| 22:00.18 | beandog | I think I would really enjoy a job in risk analysis. |
| 22:00.29 | beandog | "So, can your server handle this?" *kick* |
| 22:00.48 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:01.03 | TuxToaster | here is where I'm confused |
| 22:01.11 | TuxToaster | this was a client power outtage. |
| 22:01.37 | TuxToaster | I'm not convinced that the query to create the res took long enough that a broken connection from the browser cancelled it |
| 22:01.54 | TuxToaster | but not all of the data is there. |
| 22:02.16 | fungus | mysql is transactional by default at the query level. |
| 22:02.32 | fungus | either the query succeeds or it doesn't. |
| 22:02.45 | fungus | It's supporting queries that may, or may not be committed. |
| 22:03.11 | fungus | wrapping all your queries into a transaction will guarantee all or nothing. |
| 22:03.18 | beandog | Dangit. |
| 22:03.28 | beandog | I just read through an entire howto and it didnt cover what I wanted. |
| 22:03.35 | beandog | ~blame someone |
| 22:03.36 | ibot | ACTION blames someone (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 22:04.55 | TuxToaster | http://pastebin.com/j9Gk4NZ7 |
| 22:05.23 | TuxToaster | so what it's doing is it starts the transaction, then includes a bunch of SQL that was made previously in the script, and commits it |
| 22:05.34 | beandog | ~transactions++ |
| 22:05.53 | TuxToaster | the query that is in the #sql_pnr variable worked, but the one in #sql_passengers didn't, apparently. |
| 22:06.22 | TuxToaster | but if there was a syntax error or something that would have prevented the insert from working, it would have cancelled the transaction, would it not? |
| 22:06.33 | fungus | if using mysql you need to be aware of some transaction limitations. |
| 22:07.42 | fungus | eg. problems with crossing storage engines. |
| 22:08.11 | TuxToaster | these are all InnoDB tables |
| 22:08.47 | TuxToaster | plus my understanding is that if it inserts something into a non-transactional table during a transaction, that item will not be removed on rollback, but the others would. |
| 22:15.14 | beandog | This is so freaking confusing. |
| 22:15.15 | beandog | Yarr |
| 22:17.23 | TuxToaster | lol |
| 22:17.46 | itimber | *yawn |
| 22:17.46 | beandog | git is confusing. |
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| 23:01.12 | itimber | later guys |
| 23:05.54 | TuxToaster | ciao |
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