| 00:00.37 | romanovic | ninnypants: when did this snow start? |
| 00:00.55 | romanovic | i haven't even looked out the window for several hours. i have no clue what the weather is like here |
| 00:01.57 | orsonj | if (strlen) then substr else copy; method is slightly faster and a bit more readable too. |
| 00:02.43 | ninnypants | romanovic: probobly about an hour ago |
| 00:02.53 | influx | My old nemesis. |
| 00:03.03 | influx | You will comply now and forever. |
| 00:03.05 | beandog | CSS is the new JavaScript |
| 00:03.12 | influx | What? |
| 00:03.28 | beandog | influx, historically speaking |
| 00:03.33 | influx | Oh. |
| 00:03.38 | influx | As far as adoption and compliance. |
| 00:03.43 | beandog | Right |
| 00:03.48 | influx | Yeah. |
| 00:04.20 | beandog | JS had a pretty rough road there. Thankfully with more browser to fight for user share, things have improved overall. |
| 00:04.24 | beandog | *browsers |
| 00:04.39 | beandog | proving once again, competition is goood |
| 00:04.56 | beandog | DexterTheDragon, quit surfing and get back to work! |
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| 01:12.12 | mp_ | if you can't make it to Ignite SLC, i'm streaming it over at utahfm.org |
| 01:14.37 | DexterTheDragon | quicktime makes me sad |
| 01:20.01 | romanovic | what has it done now |
| 01:20.49 | DexterTheDragon | well ya know, it doesn't work on linux |
| 01:35.37 | mp_ | sorry about that. i just happend to have darwin server available so that's what i went with. |
| 01:45.09 | ninnypants | what distro should I go with for my laptop I'm thinking ubuntu |
| 01:53.45 | ninnypants | mp_: link? |
| 01:59.47 | thebigdog | ninnypants: ubuntu is great |
| 01:59.52 | thebigdog | fedora is good too |
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| 02:16.00 | supernovia_ | so DexterTheDragon the ignite stream keeps dying anyway |
| 02:16.21 | DexterTheDragon | i have it working in a VM |
| 02:16.33 | DexterTheDragon | its crazy boring tho |
| 02:27.56 | supernovia_ | hehe yeah? |
| 02:28.16 | supernovia_ | I have windows running on another machine here and it keeps dying. And now I'm feeling too lazy to go back over there and mess with ti |
| 02:28.43 | supernovia_ | man, this empathy chat sucks though - no alerts, can't change my nick or do any commands. bah. |
| 02:30.04 | supernovia_ | there, may have got sound at least.. |
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| 04:27.16 | ninnypants | thebigdog: thanks I think I'm gonna try fedora |
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| 04:58.25 | beandog | hey everybody it's family night |
| 04:58.36 | beandog | I've had that song stuck in my head 2 days now. |
| 05:17.12 | supernovia_ | Hum, I haven't heared that song |
| 05:17.20 | supernovia_ | er, heard |
| 05:18.56 | undertakingyou | supernovia_: hi |
| 05:19.57 | supernovia_ | howdy undertakingyou |
| 05:20.01 | supernovia_ | how have you been? |
| 05:22.04 | beandog | supernovia_: did you go to ignite? |
| 05:22.27 | supernovia_ | I wanted to ;-/ did you? |
| 05:22.42 | supernovia_ | I ended up losing track of time, and when I found time I couldn't find my keys |
| 05:23.05 | supernovia_ | blah. But, I stayed here and tried to figure out some weird bugs so it's all good |
| 05:23.34 | undertakingyou | supernovia_: been good. Tried to get you, but we never seem to be on at the same time. |
| 05:23.43 | undertakingyou | supernovia_: can I grab your email address? |
| 05:23.49 | supernovia_ | oh and I haven't been on this week very much. but yeah sure, email me |
| 05:24.26 | supernovia_ | my domain name is novapages.com and I just use my first name for the addy |
| 05:24.39 | supernovia_ | beandog: how'd your install go that you were working on? |
| 05:24.54 | beandog | Im giving up, I gotta go to beeeed |
| 05:25.03 | supernovia_ | that's what I'm about to do too |
| 05:25.07 | beandog | enjoy an awesome movie poster, tho: |
| 05:25.10 | beandog | http://www.moviegoods.com//Assets/product_images/1020/220403.1020.A.jpg |
| 05:25.18 | supernovia_ | oh.. |
| 05:25.45 | supernovia_ | ah that's a good movie |
| 05:28.09 | beandog | http://www.moviegoods.com/large_detail.asp?http://www.moviegoods.com//Assets/product_images/1020/201974.1020.A.jpg |
| 05:28.11 | beandog | wow that is gorgeous |
| 05:32.40 | supernovia_ | did you figure out how you're going to build your star trek poster frame yet? |
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| 05:38.20 | supernovia_ | oi, can't believe how sleepy I am this week. I'm going to bed. 'night guys :) |
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| 15:58.52 | ninnypants | morning all |
| 15:59.14 | utahcon | hey ninnypants |
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| 16:00.02 | ninnypants | what are some good fedora dev programs? |
| 16:00.35 | jsmith | ninnypants: What do you mean by "dev programs"? IDEs? |
| 16:02.31 | ninnypants | just general coding right now on windows I use sublime text and really like it http://sublimetext.com/ |
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| 16:06.36 | jsmith | ninnypants: You might say there's a plethora of text editors available in Fedora... |
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| 16:08.56 | cedwards | if anyone suggests anything other than vim you're getting ~lart'd. |
| 16:09.59 | utahcon | ninnypants: Have you checked out Eclipse? |
| 16:10.29 | ninnypants | nope just booted my install this morning |
| 16:10.57 | utahcon | althought SimpleText looks like vim... so cedwards could be on to something ;) |
| 16:11.37 | utahcon | ninnypants: http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20080824052425167/Editors.html |
| 16:12.15 | utahcon | ninnypants: If you are going to try vim, read this: http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/228600-vim-101-a-beginners-guide-to-vim |
| 16:12.44 | utahcon | also vim 201, 301 and 401 on linux.com :D |
| 16:16.38 | ninnypants | think I'll try vim cream kate and eclipse |
| 16:17.33 | cycokilr | kate is pretty decent.. but i still use vim for coding.. i'll pull up kate to look at things from time to time.. |
| 16:18.09 | cycokilr | i kinda lump eclipse in with emacs at least in theory.. i'm not a fan of either.. |
| 16:18.33 | cycokilr | and by theory i mean philosophy.. |
| 16:22.26 | jsmith | utahcon: Or just run "vimtutor" |
| 16:22.38 | utahcon | jsmith: yes there is that option |
| 16:22.57 | jsmith | Still use vim for everything else, though |
| 16:31.01 | cro | jsmith: did you find a good vi plugin for Eclipse? |
| 16:31.10 | jsmith | cro: Didn't bother |
| 16:31.26 | cro | jsmith: just wondering, I haven't found one either |
| 16:31.38 | cro | I have jVi for Netbeans and it is pretty good |
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| 16:40.42 | thebigdog | its friday!!!! |
| 16:41.58 | mgeary | woot |
| 16:42.05 | mgeary | hey mindjuju, where are you in Orem? |
| 16:42.28 | mgeary | anyone know how much snow there is in downtown Provo? |
| 16:42.38 | mgeary | like, whether the sidewalks need shoveling |
| 16:45.59 | thebigdog | mgeary: just go shovel the sidewalk...hehe |
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| 16:46.35 | mgeary | heh. i already used my atv with plow to shovel my place |
| 16:46.47 | mgeary | just wondering what it's like in downtown provo |
| 16:46.47 | ninnypants | bout 3 inches |
| 16:47.24 | ninnypants | the roads are decently clear though |
| 16:47.30 | mgeary | k |
| 16:48.37 | carmony | anyone go to ignite last night? |
| 17:03.13 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 17:03.43 | mgeary | if i were independently wealthy, i'd totally spend all day on days like this driving around on my atv and plowing sidewalks and driveways |
| 17:04.37 | thebigdog | mgeary: maybe some day i will tell you how you can do it |
| 17:04.47 | mgeary | maybe someday |
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| 17:07.54 | utahcon | mgeary: I don't know about all day, but I would certainly enjoy doing it for a bunch of people who need it done. |
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| 17:23.46 | mindjuju | i wish i had a betos breakfast burrito |
| 17:24.46 | wps | http://drp.ly/xjC7w |
| 17:25.05 | wps | ahhhh-yeah |
| 17:25.13 | wps | I'm back online |
| 17:25.34 | herlo | ~hate wps |
| 17:25.35 | ibot | Hey herlo, ,,|, |
| 17:25.46 | mindjuju | wow |
| 17:25.54 | wps | ha ha haâ¦Â it boomeranged |
| 17:25.55 | herlo | that is all |
| 17:26.01 | herlo | ~beat wps |
| 17:26.02 | ibot | ACTION beats wps with a very wet, sticky noodle |
| 17:26.12 | herlo | ~simpsons wps |
| 17:26.13 | ibot | ACTION sends wps chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 17:26.21 | herlo | while he's chasing the donut, I'll snag is 'puter :) |
| 17:26.29 | wps | there you go |
| 17:26.38 | wps | interesting thing⦠|
| 17:26.50 | wps | I turned on menu meters and it showed eight CPUs |
| 17:27.08 | wps | this is just a single quad core |
| 17:27.15 | wps | should have only showed four CPUs |
| 17:27.36 | utahcon | wps: hyperthreading? |
| 17:27.50 | wps | not sure |
| 17:27.58 | utahcon | sounds like it to me |
| 17:28.21 | wps | you know, the CPU and the RAM is awesome |
| 17:28.31 | utahcon | wps: macbook or pro? |
| 17:28.31 | wps | but the best thing about this new box is that it holds four HDDs |
| 17:28.36 | wps | mac pro |
| 17:28.43 | wps | it's awesome |
| 17:29.34 | wps | and you can pop 'em in and out so easy |
| 17:29.36 | wps | no wires |
| 17:29.52 | wps | just slide them in |
| 17:29.54 | wps | http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html#storage |
| 17:30.26 | utahcon | wps: check your boot.ini look for numcpu |
| 17:30.40 | utahcon | if it says 8 you have hyperthreading enabled (per the internet) |
| 17:30.54 | DexterTheDragon | yeah those Xeon procs are Hyper threaded |
| 17:31.04 | wps | check this out: http://drp.ly/xjQd8 |
| 17:31.43 | herlo | utahcon: I saw quad core and was jealous |
| 17:32.07 | wps | I have over 3 TB in this box |
| 17:32.26 | wps | bought a 2TB drive from new egg for $139 |
| 17:34.53 | wps | you guys get much snow? |
| 17:34.58 | herlo | a bunch |
| 17:35.06 | herlo | probably 2-3" at my house |
| 17:35.06 | wps | five to six inches at my place |
| 17:35.32 | wps | the backyard: http://shearerfam.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/2010_03_backyardsnow.jpg |
| 17:35.32 | carmony | question for fungus or any other mac using sys admin: |
| 17:36.14 | carmony | why does the backspace button work funny on ubuntu servers when I shell into them? |
| 17:36.21 | carmony | it acts like a delete instead of a backspace |
| 17:39.52 | thebigdog | carmony: happens when you are using a mac? what terminal are you using or terminal emulator? |
| 17:40.06 | carmony | I just use Terminal.app |
| 17:40.29 | carmony | but when I shell into a Ubuntu Server 8.04 LTS, it treats my backspace as a delete |
| 17:40.33 | carmony | on my mbp |
| 17:40.42 | mgeary | probably some TERM setting |
| 17:40.50 | thebigdog | it is probably your settings when you connect |
| 17:41.04 | thebigdog | carmony i use iterm and it is an awesome app |
| 17:41.41 | wps | what do you have here? http://screencast.com/t/OTQ2MTg3Y |
| 17:42.17 | carmony | its unchecked |
| 17:42.22 | wps | try checking that |
| 17:42.57 | carmony | .... that worked |
| 17:43.03 | carmony | oh the pain I've endured |
| 17:43.13 | wps | excellent |
| 17:43.16 | carmony | wps++ |
| 17:43.24 | mgeary | gotta add the tilde |
| 17:43.26 | mgeary | ~wps++ |
| 17:43.29 | mgeary | ~karma wps |
| 17:43.29 | ibot | wps has karma of 2 |
| 17:43.33 | mgeary | woot! |
| 17:43.35 | carmony | and thebigdog, I'll try iterm out :) |
| 17:43.43 | carmony | ~mgeary++ |
| 17:43.46 | carmony | :P |
| 17:43.50 | mgeary | i've never had a problem with Terminal.app |
| 17:43.59 | thebigdog | carmony: it has some killer features that i love |
| 17:44.01 | mgeary | thebigdog, what makes iTerm good? |
| 17:44.08 | carmony | it only happens when I shell into a Ubuntu Servers |
| 17:44.13 | carmony | any other linux server is fine |
| 17:44.15 | carmony | its weird |
| 17:46.04 | thebigdog | mgeary: http://iterm.sourceforge.net/ check that out...i use it for the bookmarks and profiles |
| 17:46.18 | thebigdog | i also use it for the console out features |
| 17:46.43 | thebigdog | so sending it input and tracking the output |
| 17:47.00 | thebigdog | and it hooks into pathfinder that i love |
| 17:47.04 | fungus | carmony, when logged into an ubuntu server type `echo $TERM` |
| 17:48.39 | fungus | Also check your Settings->Advanced stuff in your Terminal |
| 17:52.26 | fungus | grr, today's xkcd comic took me off on a strange tangent on math/programming/graphing, etc. |
| 17:52.36 | wps | ha ha |
| 17:52.49 | wps | weird |
| 17:53.05 | wps | I tried copying ~70 GB via firewire and it said that it would take days and days |
| 17:53.13 | wps | but then tried via ethernet and it said it'd be four hours |
| 17:53.37 | wps | while gigabit ethernet is theoretically faster, I thought that firewire 800 always outperformed ethernet |
| 17:53.57 | mgeary | is it a million small files? That seems like a really long time for 70gb |
| 17:54.07 | wps | photos |
| 17:55.25 | mgeary | even so |
| 17:55.30 | mgeary | are you using the Finder? |
| 17:55.40 | mgeary | i find that rsync is often faster and more reliable than the finder |
| 17:55.57 | mgeary | it also has the huge plus that you can seamlessly resume if interrupted, whereas that's a pain with the finder |
| 17:56.56 | wps | yeah, it was finder |
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| 17:58.05 | macnewbold | rsync is awesome |
| 18:02.43 | wps | laptops are handy for a meeting or a presentation, but I hate working on them |
| 18:05.27 | mgeary | how is it that Buttered Popcorn Jelly Bellies have been able to survive for so long? |
| 18:08.25 | macnewbold | they're tasty |
| 18:08.32 | macnewbold | make-a my mouth water |
| 18:08.39 | mgeary | ~wrong macnewbold |
| 18:08.39 | ibot | ACTION "macnewbold, YOU ARE WRONG!" |
| 18:08.58 | wps | it's frustrating that there aren't more tasks management applications |
| 18:09.07 | wps | â¦Â that just do tasks |
| 18:09.12 | wps | they all try to be too much |
| 18:09.17 | wps | too much collaboration |
| 18:09.31 | wps | files and calendars and budgets and gants and blah blah |
| 18:10.50 | wps | well, I shouldn't imply that that's bad. That wasn't my intent. |
| 18:10.55 | wps | that may work for some |
| 18:16.40 | stderr | http://plasma2002.com/blenderdefender/ |
| 18:16.43 | macnewbold | ~mgeary |
| 18:16.43 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, mgeary is Michael Geary, residing in Provo and working in Orem. a Flash Weenie. NOT this dude: http://www.panchang.com/aboutus/?tab=200&contentid=127, or a person who does not believe vinegar is a condiment |
| 18:16.45 | macnewbold | ~macnewbold |
| 18:16.45 | ibot | you are probably a nice person, or very good in stew, or never wrong |
| 18:17.14 | macnewbold | clearly, if you think vinegar is not a condiment, it is you sir who are wrong |
| 18:17.22 | mgeary | ;) |
| 18:17.26 | macnewbold | a nice bottle of malt vinegar is a great condiment for fish n chips |
| 18:17.34 | mgeary | ~disagree |
| 18:17.35 | ibot | ACTION redirects your idea to /dev/null |
| 18:21.19 | jsmith | macnewbold: Amen, brother! |
| 18:21.42 | mgeary | dude. low blow |
| 18:22.13 | jsmith | Fish and chips without malt vinegar? |
| 18:22.17 | mgeary | totally |
| 18:22.18 | jsmith | That's just wrong... on so many counts. |
| 18:22.21 | mgeary | just with lemon and salt |
| 18:22.24 | mgeary | mmmmmmm |
| 18:22.29 | jsmith | lemon and salt is OK |
| 18:22.45 | wps | man isn't supposed to eat things that swim |
| 18:22.52 | jsmith | I prefer a good malt vinegar though... (which is hard to find in the states) |
| 18:23.14 | jsmith | wps: WHAT?!? And here I thought you were an OK guy... |
| 18:23.22 | mgeary | ~wrong jsmith |
| 18:23.23 | ibot | ACTION "jsmith, YOU ARE WRONG!" |
| 18:31.56 | romanovic | heh |
| 18:50.02 | jsmith | mgeary: Just for you... dial 801-231-7154 :-) |
| 18:50.32 | jsmith | (or anyone else who wants to give it a try) |
| 18:51.15 | DexterTheDragon | awesome |
| 18:52.52 | macnewbold | haha |
| 18:52.55 | macnewbold | jsmith, that's sweet |
| 18:53.17 | macnewbold | was that a text to speech program you used for that? |
| 18:53.32 | macnewbold | if so, which one? (i assume it was on linux, right?) |
| 18:53.58 | jsmith | macnewbold: No, this was an actual recording... |
| 18:54.55 | jsmith | macnewbold: That being said, if you're willing to spend a few bucks, Cepstral is hard to beat |
| 18:55.05 | macnewbold | how much does it cost? |
| 18:55.06 | jsmith | macnewbold: (and they have this same voice in Cepstral) |
| 18:55.14 | jsmith | I think it's like $30 for a single-user license |
| 18:55.19 | jsmith | cepstral.com... check it out! |
| 18:55.19 | macnewbold | oh, that's not terrible |
| 18:55.39 | macnewbold | i've been playing with espeak, but it sounds worse than stephen hawking |
| 18:56.10 | jsmith | Some of the festival voices aren't *too* bad... as far as free stuff goes. But Cepstral just blows it out of the water for a decent price |
| 18:56.26 | jsmith | Beyond Cepstral, you're going to spend hundreds or thousands (or more) on something better |
| 18:57.18 | jsmith | And with that, I've gotta go find some fish and chips (and get back to real work) |
| 19:00.32 | mgeary | yeah, Cepstral is good |
| 19:20.27 | wps | when someone sets up a custom url within a corporate intranet such as http://intranet, what's the proper name for that? |
| 19:20.34 | wps | there's no TLD |
| 19:20.42 | wps | because it's just within your private network |
| 19:20.58 | wps | would you still call that a domain name? |
| 19:22.18 | fungus | it's a hostname |
| 19:22.32 | wps | ahâ¦Â yes |
| 19:22.33 | wps | thank you |
| 19:31.18 | *** join/#uphpu cro (~cro@66.60.102.202) |
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| 19:37.40 | utahcon | what to eat |
| 19:41.41 | carmony | I just had some leftover chinese |
| 19:42.03 | utahcon | carmony: and that fills _my_ tummy how? |
| 19:42.17 | carmony | it doesn't, it just adds to your misery.. :P |
| 19:42.45 | utahcon | indeed it does |
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| 19:50.08 | romanovic | utahcon: what county are you in? |
| 19:50.32 | utahcon | Salt Lake |
| 19:50.38 | utahcon | right near the E-center |
| 19:50.46 | romanovic | ah |
| 19:52.38 | romanovic | can't say i know whats out there |
| 19:52.47 | romanovic | though i did take a date to cracker barrel once |
| 19:56.10 | utahcon | there is tons |
| 19:56.19 | utahcon | problem #1) I hate eating alone |
| 19:56.39 | utahcon | that is the onyl problem |
| 19:56.48 | utahcon | I can do it if I must, I just hate doing it :D |
| 20:03.24 | romanovic | I need to find places out here to eat. Just started a new job on California Ave. just west of I-215 |
| 20:04.29 | utahcon | that is right in my area... sorta |
| 20:04.55 | utahcon | romanovic: who you working for out there? |
| 20:05.02 | utahcon | isn't that all industrial out there? |
| 20:05.22 | romanovic | L3 |
| 20:05.28 | romanovic | actually, a company owned by L3 |
| 20:05.39 | romanovic | yeah its industrial |
| 20:08.56 | utahcon | I had a buddy who worked for L3... 10+ yrs ago |
| 20:09.03 | utahcon | anywho.. she liked the job |
| 20:11.21 | romanovic | I like it so far (5 days into it...) |
| 20:11.34 | unum_ | I know a guy who's worked there for years |
| 20:11.35 | romanovic | trying to get used to c# again |
| 20:11.37 | unum_ | he seems to like it |
| 20:11.50 | romanovic | i've been doing java and php stuff for the last 16 months |
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| 20:25.18 | influx | Any CSS wizards around? |
| 20:26.16 | orsonj | perhaps, what is the problem? |
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| 20:28.59 | influx | I have a footer div that I would like to expand (lengthwise) down to the bottom of the page. |
| 20:29.16 | influx | Easy enough when the content div above it is elevnty billion pixels high |
| 20:30.04 | unum | bottom:100%? |
| 20:30.13 | influx | relative positioning? |
| 20:30.18 | influx | or absolute? |
| 20:30.28 | influx | I'm not sure I follow. |
| 20:30.46 | unum | I better just keep my mouth shut I'm still not very good at that stuff |
| 20:30.56 | influx | :) |
| 20:31.17 | unum | I was thinking with absolute, but that's just going to move it down not stretch it |
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| 20:31.49 | influx | I've all but forgotten the ins and outs of CSS. |
| 20:31.52 | unum | the easiest thing to do is, is to specify a percent height on everything |
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| 20:32.38 | orsonj | http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/ |
| 20:35.13 | orsonj | since it looks a bit old, I'm running it through a few browser tests... |
| 20:35.55 | influx | Hmm. There is one div (the header/nav) that would need an explicit height set |
| 20:36.01 | influx | but other than that, no issues. |
| 20:36.26 | influx | I'll give that a try in a minute. |
| 20:36.48 | orsonj | IE8 works, FF3.6 works, Chrome works... |
| 20:37.45 | orsonj | Safari works |
| 20:38.33 | orsonj | opera 10 works |
| 20:40.38 | orsonj | FF 3.5, 3.0 and 1.0 work |
| 20:42.01 | carmony | wow..... http://einefragevonstil.soup.io/post/47007177/Unix-dating |
| 20:43.33 | fungus | lol, nice! |
| 20:49.26 | influx | Heh. |
| 20:50.52 | thebigdog | great shirt |
| 20:52.19 | influx | I think it would be nice to have height: 100% - (n)px; |
| 20:52.47 | influx | I'd like to keep the three div setup I have in the body root. |
| 20:53.03 | influx | #nav_bar #content #footer |
| 20:53.13 | influx | orsonj: That helps tremendously. |
| 20:53.15 | influx | Thanks. |
| 20:55.43 | orsonj | IE7 works |
| 20:58.31 | orsonj | Amazingly, IE6 works |
| 20:59.25 | influx | What about 5.5? |
| 21:06.09 | orsonj | I don't have 5.5 in a vm |
| 21:07.05 | mindjuju | if i'm not mistaken, xp came with 6, going 5+ > 6 is going to take win2k or 98(maybe) |
| 21:07.38 | orsonj | interesting: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/257249 |
| 21:08.25 | influx | :D |
| 21:08.47 | mindjuju | to test IE 5, you should look for a free online web testing service |
| 21:08.54 | mindjuju | seems like they have ie 5 test |
| 21:09.14 | influx | I'm familiar with them. I wasn't being serious about 5.5 |
| 21:09.22 | mindjuju | ah |
| 21:09.39 | influx | *wink wink nudge nudge* |
| 21:10.53 | cycokilr | http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page |
| 21:11.58 | mindjuju | what's not called betos? |
| 21:12.17 | cycokilr | i've got some windows 98 VMDKs if anyone needs one.. |
| 21:12.47 | mindjuju | turns out he was just joking about testing for IE5 |
| 21:13.00 | influx | Heh. |
| 21:13.09 | cycokilr | yeah for some reason our qa dept thinks it's a good idea.. |
| 21:13.22 | influx | evolt should have some copies of the older IEs anyway. |
| 21:13.53 | mindjuju | dude, i crap you not, i still have winders 95 hit our site |
| 21:14.07 | mindjuju | at least according to google analytics |
| 21:14.25 | mindjuju | im' not sure if i believe this, but it also says there is a winders 3.11 hit our site |
| 21:14.31 | cycokilr | i can make my konqueror look like windows 95 to a web server.. |
| 21:14.32 | mindjuju | some of our clients are resistant to change |
| 21:15.03 | cycokilr | you can do that with any browser.. |
| 21:15.21 | mindjuju | yeah, but why would a financial advisor masquerade as winders 3.11? |
| 21:16.13 | cycokilr | it's probably some gateway at their office getting identified incorrectly by the web server.. |
| 21:16.36 | cycokilr | people have some strange firewalls/gateways out there.. |
| 21:16.44 | mindjuju | maybe -- that's why i mentioned though, "01im' not sure if i believe this, but it also says there is a winders 3.11 hit our site" |
| 21:16.57 | mindjuju | so i'm saying, i'm not sure, i'm not saying, i absolutely believe |
| 21:16.58 | ninnypants | what's a good ftp program for fedora |
| 21:17.14 | cycokilr | oh i can load up a windows 1.0 vm if you want some of that in your logs.. legit ones that is.. |
| 21:17.28 | mindjuju | nah, it's ok |
| 21:17.52 | cycokilr | didn't they make a text browser for DOS 6.22? |
| 21:17.56 | cycokilr | i can load that up too.. |
| 21:19.50 | romanovic | dunno about dos |
| 21:20.04 | romanovic | i used lynx once upon a time though |
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| 21:25.00 | cycokilr | they have networking in CP/M now.. i could load that up.. |
| 21:28.59 | mgeary | dang. Zions Bank is issuing a 5-year note at 8.77% APR... That's a pretty nice rate |
| 21:29.56 | thebigdog | i hate zions bank |
| 21:30.08 | carmony | Oooo... node.js |
| 21:30.27 | mgeary | Zions has never done anything wrong by me |
| 21:31.14 | thebigdog | no but when i interviewed with them on their online banking it scared the crap out of me |
| 21:31.59 | mgeary | ah. weren't impressed by their security approach...? |
| 21:32.05 | thebigdog | not at all |
| 21:32.48 | ninnypants | thebigdog: what was wrong with it? |
| 21:33.18 | thebigdog | questions like how would you save a password in the session |
| 21:34.22 | ninnypants | oooh that is very wrong |
| 21:34.58 | thebigdog | and the guy running the team moved up from a teller position |
| 21:34.58 | DexterTheDragon | ~dtdhit mindjuju |
| 21:34.59 | ibot | ACTION stikes at mindjuju with the honorable scorpion punch blinding mindjuju in one eye! |
| 21:34.59 | thebigdog | now that is cool that he worked his way up...but man you need to have major background in cs to be running that type of stuff |
| 21:34.59 | ninnypants | thebigdog: that is bad |
| 21:40.39 | beandog | thebigdog, heh, thats awesome |
| 21:40.45 | beandog | in an apocalyptical sort of way |
| 21:45.45 | thebigdog | i mean they do have some good guys...but it did not feel right at all |
| 21:48.46 | mgeary | thebigdog: of course, for all you know, all banks have that same approach/standard... |
| 21:48.58 | mgeary | no..? |
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| 21:50.28 | orsonj | anyone have a site where they can get live analytics data? |
| 21:50.43 | orsonj | see if you can pick out my browser (after you give me an address to visit) |
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| 21:53.02 | influx | I would say yes, but I haven't installed the application on my new host. :O |
| 21:54.41 | thebigdog | mgeary: that is what i am thinking |
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| 21:55.40 | mgeary | i've read articles about banks that get blackmailed or else hackers will exploit/advertise their vulnerabilities. Apparently millions of dollars get paid and the public generally never hears about it |
| 21:56.34 | beandog | bank security in general sucks |
| 21:56.40 | beandog | identity theft is just poor banking security. |
| 21:57.06 | DexterTheDragon | I want to be one of those hackers |
| 21:57.27 | beandog | ~blackhat DexterTheDragon |
| 22:00.08 | Rippie | o/ anyway i can shorten this ? http://pastebin.com/L6Hk54ap |
| 22:00.39 | herlo | Rippie: use some other shortening service like snipurl or something? |
| 22:00.40 | Rippie | it is to out engineer1, engineer2, engineer3 (get the comma in between) |
| 22:00.44 | mgeary | so, you're using neither database abstraction nor a template layer... |
| 22:01.11 | mgeary | ;) |
| 22:01.16 | beandog | mgeary, you know any good ones? template thingies |
| 22:01.17 | Rippie | :) lol |
| 22:01.42 | mgeary | well, for PHP, i like Smarty, but i know some of you young bucks here pooh-pooh Smarty |
| 22:01.45 | beandog | Rippie, for one thing, you can use if(!$count) instead of if($count == 0) |
| 22:02.03 | beandog | that's probably not the kind of help you were looking for though. |
| 22:02.31 | beandog | mgeary, anything else |
| 22:03.02 | mgeary | beandog: Smarty does what i've needed, so i stopped looking/evaluating. All our new stuff is in django, so i'm not really in the php template market any more |
| 22:03.02 | Rippie | beandog would give me same result and not less code... i am certain that someone told me how at some point |
| 22:03.16 | orsonj | Rippie: http://pastebin.com/eFYbsQeq |
| 22:03.18 | mgeary | Rippie: what is your objective? fewer lines of code? |
| 22:03.24 | DexterTheDragon | Rippie: http://pastebin.com/cwPCyF4z |
| 22:03.55 | DexterTheDragon | oh forgot the echo $str |
| 22:03.58 | beandog | mgeary, okay. I gotta find me one here, sometime soon. |
| 22:04.50 | mgeary | Rippie: don't over-estimate the value of having as few lines of code as possible. I'd much rather have verbose, easy-to-maintain code than 3 lines of perl super gumb o |
| 22:05.11 | beandog | I'd rather have anything than perl |
| 22:05.29 | mgeary | ibot, hey |
| 22:05.30 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, hey is almost for horses |
| 22:05.58 | mgeary | ~premature |
| 22:05.59 | ibot | somebody said premature was "Premature Optimization is the root of all evil!" |
| 22:06.05 | mgeary | hrm |
| 22:06.11 | Rippie | orsonj: if i had 3 engineers, your code would post engineer1, engineer2, engineer3, |
| 22:06.25 | Rippie | can we not get rid of the last "," for the last one ? |
| 22:06.25 | mgeary | ibot: forget premature |
| 22:06.25 | ibot | mgeary: i forgot premature |
| 22:06.30 | mgeary | ibot: premature is <action> "Premature Optimization is the root of all evil!" |
| 22:06.31 | ibot | okay, mgeary |
| 22:06.33 | mgeary | ~premature |
| 22:06.34 | ibot | ACTION "Premature Optimization is the root of all evil!" |
| 22:07.13 | DexterTheDragon | Rippie: even better http://pastebin.com/yDJ1KSZr |
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| 22:08.40 | orsonj | Rippie: sorry, forgot a couple things: http://pastebin.com/qtQj55ZF |
| 22:08.58 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: stop making errors!! |
| 22:09.04 | herlo | it's unprofessional :) |
| 22:09.22 | DexterTheDragon | herlo: php's hard |
| 22:09.30 | herlo | lol |
| 22:09.34 | DexterTheDragon | its needs all sort of weird symbols and junk |
| 22:09.34 | herlo | harder than python? |
| 22:10.02 | mgeary | escaping quotes is a pita and makes for less readable code. I'd either use single quotes or heredoc syntax |
| 22:10.45 | herlo | heredoc rules |
| 22:11.00 | DexterTheDragon | heredocs bad |
| 22:11.01 | influx | here here |
| 22:11.22 | mgeary | ~wrong DexterTheDragon |
| 22:11.23 | ibot | ACTION "DexterTheDragon, YOU ARE WRONG!" |
| 22:11.30 | Rippie | orsonj: works like a treat ... so did yours DexterTheDragon :) |
| 22:11.52 | DexterTheDragon | I always see heredocs used as a lame excuse for a template layer |
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| 22:12.14 | mgeary | DexterTheDragon: granted. See my earlier criticism :) |
| 22:12.32 | mgeary | but using heredoc is way better than escaping quotes |
| 22:12.37 | beandog | oh man |
| 22:12.38 | beandog | I hate those. |
| 22:13.42 | Rippie | is someone up for a little tutoring ? i have some a page with 3 queries and while loops...wondered if i somehow could write the same code in less lines ? |
| 22:14.12 | beandog | Rippie, look into database abstraction layers |
| 22:14.18 | beandog | That'll simplify your database calls |
| 22:14.33 | mgeary | Rippie: it's not really so much about less code as it is about less redundancy |
| 22:14.42 | mgeary | less code isn't an absolute good |
| 22:14.59 | Rippie | i guess.... just paranoid of my code.. lol |
| 22:15.11 | orsonj | still, post it and we'll provide input |
| 22:15.51 | Rippie | got 4 tables with vendor, product, engineers, and productskills... and so far i got it to list vendors and their products, and what engineers that can do what .. |
| 22:17.03 | Rippie | any input then: http://pastebin.com/JjYM8dap |
| 22:18.14 | thebigdog | one thing i have learned that if you have a function/method longer than your screen where you have to scroll up or down then it is too big |
| 22:18.49 | DexterTheDragon | well my input would be no echoing html |
| 22:20.01 | thebigdog | that goes with templating and orm or something along those lines |
| 22:22.41 | Rippie | a friend told me when doing OOP you would effectively have 1 file with all your pages and from the php files then call the funtions as when you need them |
| 22:23.11 | Rippie | i have to output HTML as this code is effectively my engineer skill page |
| 22:23.38 | Rippie | the php file just look up this function in the config.php file i have |
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| 22:27.23 | Rippie | no one ? |
| 22:28.00 | orsonj | Rippie: still working on something... |
| 22:28.23 | Rippie | cheers... |
| 22:28.41 | *** part/#uphpu ninnypants (~Rick@64.72.210.74) |
| 22:29.02 | Rippie | first someone told me to have 1 query to get EVERYTHING in one go.. but then of course how did i get vendors to show first and then products and engineers inside vendors... |
| 22:29.20 | Rippie | so dont think i can do much... but any help is appreciated |
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| 22:31.25 | thebigdog | man only if php had lazy loading |
| 22:32.30 | thebigdog | Rippie i have used ajax for some suff like that before |
| 22:32.42 | thebigdog | so i would just show the vendors |
| 22:32.52 | thebigdog | and then when they want to see more then do an ajax call |
| 22:33.03 | thebigdog | man this feels like a brian regan joke |
| 22:33.23 | Rippie | :) |
| 22:33.34 | Rippie | still not looked at AJAX, but know i have to.... |
| 22:33.48 | Rippie | done my www.w3schools.com php exam... :) |
| 22:33.54 | Rippie | cute.. lol |
| 22:35.36 | thebigdog | there are ways to bring all the data back in a query...but it might not be what you want |
| 22:36.06 | Rippie | i think for now, this is the code i want.. but if i can improve the code i would like to |
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| 22:39.04 | Rippie | if i have a php file and include 'anotherphp.php' file... would i have to start anotherphp.php file with <?php ? cant remember.. lol |
| 22:40.34 | romanovic | nope |
| 22:40.45 | romanovic | you could have plain html with no php if you wanted |
| 22:44.36 | Rippie | but i mean if i want php code in the included php file |
| 22:44.45 | Rippie | do i have to start it with <?php then ? |
| 22:45.01 | Rippie | thought it would take it from the first php file ? |
| 22:47.37 | romanovic | oh i see what you are saying. yes you still need it in the included .php file |
| 22:48.18 | romanovic | even though the include statement is inside the <?php ?> tags, the included file needs to have all of its php code also inside <?php ?> tags |
| 22:49.39 | beandog | thebigdog, lazy loading? |
| 22:50.33 | thebigdog | beandog yes lazy loading |
| 22:50.39 | beandog | wazzat |
| 22:51.44 | DexterTheDragon | its awesome wrapped up in a nice little package |
| 22:51.54 | thebigdog | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_loading |
| 22:52.12 | thebigdog | but more on the database side |
| 22:52.43 | thebigdog | proxies are how most langs will implement it |
| 22:53.06 | thebigdog | sometimes you see ghost implementations too |
| 22:54.19 | stderr | http://i.imgur.com/4hU8l.jpg |
| 22:55.17 | DexterTheDragon | yet another thing on the internet I'll never be able to unsee |
| 22:55.30 | pelaofeliz | thebigdog: what type of DB lazy loading are you looking for -- something above & beyond what mysqli gives you? (i.e. the mysql-server-side cache rather than web-server cache)? |
| 23:00.40 | thebigdog | it is actually more with orm really |
| 23:00.59 | thebigdog | so basically you query for objects and it loads up proxies for the sub objects |
| 23:01.22 | thebigdog | then you actually try and access them they get queried or pulled from cache depending on your setup |
| 23:01.29 | pelaofeliz | ah |
| 23:01.33 | thebigdog | so you dont have to return tons of stuff |
| 23:02.25 | thebigdog | perhaps a php orm framework has it like cakephp |
| 23:04.04 | DexterTheDragon | cakephp loads all the data into a massive array |
| 23:04.38 | thebigdog | oh then that is what i would want to avoid if possible |
| 23:04.43 | DexterTheDragon | which tends to kill you on time as its trying to run tons of queries to get every bit of related info |
| 23:04.54 | DexterTheDragon | and blows your memory trying to create an array that big |
| 23:07.46 | thebigdog | that would be crazy |
| 23:07.55 | thebigdog | does cake us memcache at all for that stuff? |
| 23:08.17 | DexterTheDragon | you can setup cake to do some memcaching of stuff |
| 23:08.30 | DexterTheDragon | usually of rendered views |
| 23:08.43 | DexterTheDragon | but I do think there is a way to cache queries |
| 23:33.44 | influx | Wow. |
| 23:34.11 | influx | ~ie8++ |
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| 23:35.03 | influx | I remember having to futz around with ie6 (not sure about 7) if I wanted a block element to take up only x amount of space. |
| 23:35.12 | influx | ...when adding borders to that block element. |
| 23:35.37 | orsonj | fyi, I was working with Rippie some more and put this together http://pastebin.com/fUmxNuTa |
| 23:35.51 | influx | So div { width: 10px; border: 1px solid red; } would render as a 10px wide element (borders included) in standards-compliant browsers, and a 12px wide element in IE. |
| 23:37.00 | DexterTheDragon | influx: ah the IE box model |
| 23:37.28 | influx | Yep yep. |
| 23:38.12 | thebigdog | orsonj i would suggest one thing |
| 23:39.03 | thebigdog | for your foreach on line 16 i would grab all the ids that are needed |
| 23:39.10 | thebigdog | and redo the query to be id in |
| 23:39.24 | thebigdog | and do 1 query verses the x one |
| 23:43.35 | orsonj | good idea, I was mainly showing how to separate the different pieces |
| 23:44.17 | orsonj | I didn't even abstract the db all that well. |
| 23:48.08 | carmony | DexterTheDragon: can you understand what they are saying the UP Remix? :P |
| 23:48.09 | orsonj | unfortunantly my SQLfu isn't as good as my GoogleFu |
| 23:48.31 | orsonj | (but way better than my KungFu) |
| 23:49.07 | DexterTheDragon | carmony: well most of it is just making the sounds to put the tune together. but there are the bits of phrases that can be understood |
| 23:49.58 | carmony | lol, yeah, thats what I thought :P |
| 23:52.23 | carmony | its super catchy |
