IRC log for #uphpu on 20100112

00:00.07mindjujujustincarmony
00:01.14justincarmonymindjuju: sup :P
00:01.28mindjujubring me some chicken
00:03.47Utah_Davemindjuju: I made some chicken and rice in my new dutch oven last night!
00:05.07mindjujuthat's awesome!
00:05.14mindjujubut i want popeyes!
00:09.09justincarmonylol
00:09.18justincarmonyhow about next thursday for PHP? :P
00:09.31herlowhee!
00:09.33Utah_Davemindjuju: I was in DC a few weeks ago and saw a popeyes and I thought of you
00:09.35herlopopeyes for mindjuju
00:10.00herlomindjuju: I'm going to Raleigh at the end of the month, want me to pack some popeyes back on the plane ?? :)
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00:10.25mindjujuthat's be cool
00:10.34mindjujupopeyes is the best
00:11.08influxNext to Dunkin' DOnuts.
00:11.11influxDonuts*
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04:25.53beandogholars
04:26.14supernoviaHola :)
04:26.20beandogheya supernovia hows things
04:26.30beandogsupernovia: I totally forgot about this, but your Sprite is here
04:26.49supernoviaOh! heh, yeah I forgot about that too
04:27.00supernoviaWe don't drink much soda so it's not really missed
04:27.16supernoviain fact I'm pretty sure that was left over from Christmas
04:27.23beandoglol
04:27.27beandogI see how it is.
04:27.34beandogBring second hand leftovers to my parties.
04:27.34supernoviahehe, well, it wasn't opened.. hehe
04:28.24supernoviaand the food supply of course :-D
04:28.34DexterTheDragonbeandog!
04:28.39beandogDexterTheDragon: heyo
04:28.47supernoviaHi DexterTheDragon!
04:28.50beandogdid I miss anything today
04:28.50beandog?
04:28.54DexterTheDragonbeandog: so the guys over in utahpython were talking about this prgmr.com
04:29.06DexterTheDragonthought it might be of interest to you
04:29.10DexterTheDragonsup supernovia
04:29.11beandogOooh
04:29.21beandogDexterTheDragon: looks cool already, thank you
04:29.41DexterTheDragonthey said a bunch of the techs hang out in a channel on freenode
04:30.07supernovia"We don't assume you are stupid"
04:30.08beandogsupernovia: no golden showers?
04:30.20supernoviaNone today, and no turkey soup either
04:30.36DexterTheDragonlooks like a pretty good price for a full access vps
04:31.26beandoglemme check this booger out
04:31.37beandogholy crap
04:31.50supernoviathat's not bad
04:33.07josephscottLuke Crawford (guy who runs prgmr.com) is a long time BSD guy, smart guy
04:33.53DexterTheDragonsee josephscott even knows him
04:34.13josephscottI know of him, I don't think that I've ever met him
04:34.44beandogI wonder how you get the OS on there
04:34.54supernoviaDo they have support options if it turns out the client IS stupid/
04:35.11beandogsupernovia: maybe they just cancel your account and poweroff your machine
04:35.14supernoviahehe
04:35.43supernoviaI can certainly say some clients really need to be paying extra for some hand-holding. And that is OK.
04:35.44DexterTheDragonbeandog: they install debian or centos. but they have some guides on how to upload your own filesystem to it
04:35.49beandogDexterTheDragon: man at those prices Imt empted to at least try it
04:35.51herlosupernovia: how's class?
04:36.10beandogDexterTheDragon: man where did you find this??
04:36.15DexterTheDragonbeandog: http://book.xen.prgmr.com/mediawiki/index.php/Untarring_a_fresh_OS_image
04:36.16supernoviaSo far so good herlo! :)
04:36.29DexterTheDragonthey guys over in utahpython were talking about it
04:36.40supernoviastill haven't decided whether to drop a class or not
04:37.02supernoviaif any of you guys try this service you'll have to holler to let me know how you like it
04:37.09herlosupernovia: good to here
04:37.24herlowhat is this vps you speak of?
04:37.27beandogDexterTheDragon: Hmmm
04:38.23DexterTheDragonbeandog: I figure you'd know how to slap gentoo onto it
04:38.39beandogDexterTheDragon: well it really just matters what's on that CentOS rescue thing
04:38.53herlosupernovia: what service is this?
04:38.53beandogDexterTheDragon: but really, if you can get *any* partition booted with anything on it, you're golden.
04:38.53DexterTheDragonherlo: http://prgmr.com
04:38.57supernoviaUm this VPS they're all talking about
04:39.37herlosupernovia: right, as I asked about a second ago :)
04:39.46herlo21:37 <+herlo> what is this vps you speak of?
04:39.56supernoviaoh sorry
04:40.11supernoviaI was scrolling up for the link but DexterTheDragon got it :)
04:40.23beandogDexterTheDragon: they might not like Gentoo ... all that CPU usage
04:40.23herlodude! that's worth trying!
04:40.48beandoghttp://book.xen.prgmr.com/mediawiki/index.php/Complaints
04:40.49beandogLOL
04:40.50beandogread that
04:41.08DexterTheDragonbeandog: if they have Xen controlling the sharing of the cpu, I don't see it would matter
04:41.23beandogDexterTheDragon: yah
04:41.54herlobeandog: that's funny awesome! that's how a business should be run
04:42.06beandog"no emotional bs"
04:42.09beandogsounds like stderr
04:42.44herlolol
04:42.46beandogwasn't it stderr who proposed to his g/f in the car on the way to taco bell or something?
04:43.09herlolol
04:44.00beandog"all this and a taco too"
04:45.06beandogsupernovia: your daughter is sick??
04:45.26supernoviaShe was. Seems better now
04:45.55supernoviaone of those "had to get it out o the system" things I guess
04:45.55beandogo.O
04:46.02beandogI hope she didnt get it from my place
04:46.12supernoviaWere you sick too?
04:46.25beandogsupernovia: no
04:46.45supernoviaI doubt she got it there. One of her friends was sick Sunday
04:46.52DexterTheDragonbut he keeps germs around
04:46.56beandogOh
04:46.58beandogDexterTheDragon: lol
04:47.01beandogI keep them in a jar
04:47.05beandognext to my toenail clippings
04:47.17supernoviahehe
04:47.32supernoviaI used t keep a jar of germs
04:47.56DexterTheDragonbeandog: gonna come out to the python meeting this week?
04:48.04beandogDexterTheDragon: when / where?
04:48.10beandogI dont know the *first thing* about python
04:48.15beandogI wouldnt mind terribly learning tho
04:48.20supernoviaI hope she wasn't already exposed when we went there beandog..
04:48.28beandogsupernovia: oh Im not worrieda bout me
04:48.36DexterTheDragonthurs 7pm @ bill good marketing
04:48.37beandogsupernovia: I just wont drink the sprite
04:48.41supernovialol
04:48.48beandogDexterTheDragon: oh yah?  whats the topic
04:48.48supernoviaWell, it hasn't been opened ;-D
04:48.57beandogDexterTheDragon: are u guys doing dinner afterwards or anything?
04:49.06supernoviathat's the fun part.. :-D
04:49.07DexterTheDragon"January 14th meeting: super awesome stuff, by Stephen McQuay"
04:49.15DexterTheDragonfree pizza at the meeting
04:49.18supernoviaOooh, intriguing.
04:50.04supernoviaI don't know the first thing about python either.  What do you need for it?
04:50.34beandoga lotta whitespace
04:50.55DexterTheDragonand a hate of tabs
04:51.10beandogbrownspace? lol, whut?
04:51.40supernoviaheh, sorry, just being a goofball
04:52.01beandog:)
04:52.03supernoviaand my wall is brown and it was the first thing I saw :-p
04:52.10beandogYour wall is brown?
04:52.13beandogOkay, no more questions.
04:52.31supernoviaYeah, one of them. The previous tenants were creative.
04:52.44beandoghey, I didnt ask
04:52.45beandog:)
04:53.03supernoviaWell I have a random question beandog..
04:53.13beandoggood
04:53.14beandogI hate the boring ones
04:53.33supernoviathis one might qualify as that... what's the diff between Castellano and Español
04:53.49beandogsupernovia: accents
04:53.52supernoviaI just noticed Castellano on my blog reader with your znurt thing
04:54.03beandogsupernovia: its like, the difference between English in Louisana and Jersey
04:54.10supernoviaand I thought that was more of a Spanish-Spanish
04:54.27beandogin Argentina they pronounce their y's and ll's as "shuH
04:54.29beandog"shuh"
04:54.43beandogSo, yo me llamo = sho me shamo
04:54.58beandogand they use 'vos' instead of 'tu'
04:55.00beandogvos sos
04:55.02beandogtu eres
04:55.03supernoviaRight .. OK, I didn't realize that was Castellano
04:55.11beandogand their adjectives are different
04:55.22beandoginstead of saying come, they would say come with an accent on e
04:55.28beandogso co-ME instead of CO-me
04:55.39beandogall the verbs just drop the r for the vos command
04:55.43beandogso, ve-NI to come
04:55.43supernoviaInteresting..and that's just Argentina?
04:55.45beandoginstead of VEN
04:55.48beandogyah
04:55.59beandogand they say 'che' a lot
04:56.00beandogche, migo
04:56.01beandog:D
04:56.05supernoviache?
04:56.13beandogyah it's like "bro"
04:56.16beandogbuddy, pal, whatever
04:56.18beandogdude
04:56.58supernoviaOh really? Thats cool. Ppl say cho and schto in Bulgarian and Russian, respectively, and it means "what"
04:57.20supernoviaand when I'd heard people say "Che" I guess I assumed it meant the same thing. lol
04:57.45beandogoh, heh
04:57.49beandogthat'd get confusing
04:58.18supernoviayeah I think it probably makes more sense the way you'd explained it. I don't know much Spanish at all... just what I hear and what the kids bring home
04:58.34beandoglol
04:58.38beandogwhat the kids bring home
04:58.40beandogwhat a great phrase
04:58.42beandog:)
04:58.55beandogalright
04:58.58beandogIm gonna go eat dinner and stuff
04:59.00beandogcha cha, all
04:59.05supernoviawell, last night Mary was saying something about being THE sardine pizza
04:59.23beandogsupernovia: life must be interesting over there
04:59.27supernoviaAlways :-D
04:59.37supernoviaHave a good night & thanks for the explanation :-D
05:00.20beandogheh
05:00.23beandogyah
05:01.02supernovia"soy la una pizza sardina ..."
05:01.26wpsI have no idea what you just typed but I think I'm going to vomit
05:01.33supernoviathe other kid: "you are the one sardine pizza?"
05:01.51supernoviaoh noes, it IS contagious. OK.
05:03.35supernoviasorry wps :-)  I shall go back to my homework
05:11.29josephscottanyone know if there is a linux equivalent of 'systat -vmstat' on freebsd?
05:12.25herloDexterTheDragon: so who in utahpython was talking about prgmr.com
05:13.05DexterTheDragonherlo: sontek
05:13.25herloboo
05:13.47supernoviajosephscott: http://nixdoc.net/man-pages/FreeBSD/man1/systat.1.html ?
05:14.48josephscottsupernovia: yep, that's the systat command man page for freebsd.
05:14.56josephscottI'm looking for a systat on linux
05:15.20supernoviaOh, sorry, I was thinking the other way around
05:15.28josephscott'systat -vmstat 1' is very handy on freebsd
05:16.04herlosysstat?
05:16.27herloor you could just run vmstat
05:16.38josephscottsystat
05:16.43herloyes, I know
05:16.48herlovmstat seems similar
05:17.01herlotry 'vmstat 2'
05:17.30herlojosephscott: without showing it, I can't say whether it is the same or not
05:17.48josephscottsimilar, but not nearly as nice/helpful
05:17.51herloin linux, it's called sysstat though, that's why I said that...
05:18.06herlojosephscott: what variables are you looking for?
05:18.21herlos/variables/values/
05:19.07josephscottit varies, sometimes it's disk I/O, other times it's interrupts
05:19.58josephscott'systat -vmstat' is like top for the VM system
05:20.56josephscottfor that matter, systat in general is darn amazing
05:20.58supernoviahm, that would be handy
05:21.44herlojosephscott: oh, okay
05:22.17josephscott'systat -tcp' is like top for all things TCP
05:22.45herlowell, linux has vmstat, iostat, etc that are separate tools to accomplish the similar task...
05:22.58herlojosephscott: yeah, netstat -planetu :)
05:23.16herloI think it's just a matter of implementation and preference
05:24.08josephscottI haven't see any of the linux tools provide a % busy for disk I/O, which is something nice in 'systat -vmstat'
05:24.57herlohrm
05:27.32supernoviajosephscott: I haven't tried it but it looks like atop might have that for you
05:28.08josephscottthat sounds promising
05:28.16supernovialuck!
05:29.06herloooh, prety
05:29.37DexterTheDragonsupernovia: take luck!
05:29.53supernoviaThanks DexterTheDragon :-D
05:29.53herlogood .... care!
05:30.40supernoviaSomeone told me "you too!" the other day when I wished a happy birthday their way.  It was rad
05:30.52DexterTheDragonhaha
05:32.41josephscottgotta run for the night, thanks for the atop link.  I'll have to post some systat screen shots some time
05:36.43romanovic~give me caffeine
05:36.44ibotACTION gives caffeine to romanovic
05:36.52romanovic~thankyou
05:36.52ibotde nada, romanovic
05:41.02influxoi
05:41.10influxwho here's paying attention?
05:41.30supernoviasup
05:41.32herlonobody
05:41.33herlo:)
05:44.18influx:)
05:44.28influxI have a question which I'm still formulating. Standby.
05:45.17influxOk. Part n: A variable defined, but with no value evaluates to what?
05:45.22influxNULL?
05:45.55influxHow about if the value is one or more spaces/blank characters?
05:46.47DexterTheDragontechnically it evaluates to whatever random piece of memory it was initialized to
05:46.49supernoviai'd think a variable with no value would be not true in an if($variable)
05:47.04DexterTheDragonin most dynamic languages tho they are null
05:47.13influxMmkay.
05:47.48supernoviaand a string is a string is a string, right?
05:47.58supernoviawhether it's no empty spaces or five spaces or a line of text
05:49.35influxI ask because I'm trying to make it so that the script won't go through the process of comparing  username and password submitted, if the values are null or just space(s),...
05:49.37supernoviaDexterTheDragon will have to correct me though
05:49.55influxand just feed the user something from an else or elseif conditional
05:50.20influxcomparing the username and password submitted, to what's in the database*
05:50.31DexterTheDragonif (trim($var)) { // its not blank }
05:50.33supernoviaso maybe parse out the spaces and if an empty string is left..
05:51.10influxDexterTheDragon: I imagine that'll also take care of finding out whether or not the variable evaluates to true.
05:51.41influxi mean, whether or not the variable contains something.
05:51.57supernoviawell, if this is a form they're using and anything comes out null that's a bad thing eh
05:52.17influxI suppose so.
05:52.58DexterTheDragontrim will return a blank string if given null or false, which evaluates to false
05:53.11influx""
05:53.12influx?
05:53.16DexterTheDragonyeah
05:53.22influxexcellent.
05:53.30influxThanks DtD and Super.
05:53.45influxI'm not sure I'd ever learned of trim()
05:53.56influxProbably forgot about it some time ago.
05:54.11supernoviaor you could be like me and only know what you know
05:54.21beandogyou know.
05:54.40supernoviaexactly. (breaking out into song now)
05:54.46influxHeh.
05:54.46beandog~80s
05:55.47supernoviaanyway, you're welcome :)
05:56.24influxif($_POST['submit'] && trim($_POST['username']) && trim($_POST['userpass'])) {
05:57.14beandogyay
05:57.18beandogmy amazon order shipped
05:57.23beandogPole Position: The Complete Series
05:57.25influxcool beans, bean
05:57.29supernoviaw00t
05:57.30influxWhat.
05:58.56beandoghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj55mHD2Pes
05:58.57beandogoh man
05:59.00beandogI LOVED this show
05:59.51supernoviaI never saw it.. hehe, the car's name is Rody?
06:01.29beandogdunno, I wasnt paying *that* much attention :)
06:02.30supernoviaOdd names stand out when you know people who go by them ..hee
06:03.24DexterTheDragonok this is the best http://www.klava.org/
06:03.37DexterTheDragonbecause it has programming language as one of the choices
06:07.12beandogphoo
06:07.15beandogthat wears me out
06:07.35beandog[244/348]/min    [8.00/2.69]%
06:08.05supernovia[352/286]/min    [2.53/3.39]%    - what is that?
06:08.12beandogsupernovia: I have no idea
06:08.18supernoviaI don't even know what that means
06:08.32beandogoh well
06:08.34beandognumbers are fun
06:08.41beandogfun with numbers
06:08.42beandogand vodka
06:09.05supernoviaSeriously
06:09.23supernoviaI don't know what Проголосуйте means either :-/
06:09.37beandogIt means "excuse me, there's a trogolodyte behind you"
06:09.46supernoviahehe
06:12.35DexterTheDragonnight!
06:12.43supernoviaspakoi!
06:12.50beandoggnite
06:12.54beandogIm gonna go watch TNG
06:13.13supernoviahave fun! I am mulling over my homework.
06:13.26supernoviaand clearly goofing off
06:47.07influxWhat's the homework?
06:52.13supernoviame?
06:52.24supernoviaI'm actually blogging about web design, of all things.
07:00.09influxHeh.
07:00.16influxWhat's the particular topic?
07:00.32supernoviaWant to read it and tell me if it's any good? I'm just finishing up.
07:00.42influxAbsolutely.
07:00.50influxbefore I go and do that, I'll ask this:
07:01.32influxtrim($var) == '' should evaluate to true if the variable is empty or begins with a value that's a blank string
07:01.35influx?
07:02.03supernoviaJust leave it as trim($var) because that will be false if it's empty
07:02.22supernoviaand you won't have to mess with the string evalutation
07:03.28influxWell, what I'm trying to do now is execute some lines if the variable does end up being ''
07:03.32supernoviastill proofreading: http://novapages.com/ideablog/geek-speak/design-vs-style/
07:03.37influxk
07:03.51supernoviaOkay
07:04.11influxI take it that means, "Yes, it should."
07:04.43supernoviadoes  if(trim($var)=="") work?
07:05.24supernoviaI honestly am not sure, for hanging out with this group as much as I do it's only recently that I've really tried to learn more than I've needed to know.  :-/  being more of a design type of person
07:09.18influxI will let you know as soon as I try it out.
07:09.35influxregarding your blog post: What was your intent?
07:09.43supernoviaI'll try it out in another window if you want to look at it
07:10.35supernoviaRepsonding to the reading: I really don't agree with the guy that those are the best designed sites; he's really talking more about style
07:10.54supernoviaGuess it would help if I stated that up front.
07:16.09supernoviathis is what I get for going back and forth between irc and typing there. heh
07:16.26influxHe does talk about design a bit, but his mentions of style outweigh those of design in number.
07:17.05supernoviaalso the class is attempting to establish what web design is at this point
07:17.34supernoviaand I personally think (well, as hopefully the article indicates) that style is only the tiniest part of desgin
07:17.36supernoviadesign
07:17.38influxIn your post, however, it seems you're talking about trends
07:18.05influxstyle is not the whole tamale, yes.
07:18.14supernoviaOkay, I say his post is more about trends.
07:18.38supernoviathan style or design, how's that?  Cute graphics.. big text.. "so web 2.0"...
07:18.39influxI must have overlooked that.
07:18.43influxoh
07:19.00supernoviaI need to make that clearer, but that's the argument I'm going for.
07:19.01influxNo, I'm saying that your post seems to cover trends.
07:19.15influxNot design (or style) so much.
07:19.34influxYour post*
07:19.39influxoh, i did say that
07:19.44supernoviaOK, and what I want to do is say that this "10 best designed sites" is actually more of a list of what's current in trends
07:21.10influxI'm on one tonight.
07:21.50influxbbiab
07:21.52influxgoing to test the code
07:22.04supernoviak. I'm going to simplififify :)
07:32.43influxAwesome. It worked as hoped.
07:32.52supernoviagood
08:13.31influxand now i retire
08:13.32influxpax
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14:09.57supernoviahi swb and goodbye too! time for school here.
14:10.21swboh, hi and goodbye supernovia :)
14:10.27swbahem, school is... early?
14:10.35swboh, that school
14:10.37swbnm
14:10.57supernoviaYeah, it's all early :)
14:11.07supernoviawe're leaving in 20 but I gotta feed them first.
14:11.38supernoviasee ya m'dear :-D
14:11.44swbhave a good day!
14:11.48supernoviayou too!
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15:30.27justincarmonygoood morning :P
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16:09.32beandoghttp://znurt.org/
16:09.43beandognow that's fail with elegance
16:17.34justincarmonybeandog: lol
16:20.24funguseighteen prancing unicorns dancing on candy mountain
16:20.32fungusstill not working...
16:20.47fungus~taunt beandog
16:20.48ibotACTION taunts beandog a second time
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16:42.47beandogheh
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17:46.00mindjuju~rlart
17:46.01ibotsend killer squirrels to attack Heartsbane
17:46.10mindjujuthe fates have spoken!
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17:53.50justincarmonyman
17:53.56DexterTheDragongirl
17:54.03justincarmonyI hate slicing a PSD that I didn't make
17:54.21justincarmonycause some designer do little things that are hard to do in HTML/CSS
17:54.47mindjujulike semi-transparent menu systems?
17:54.51josephscottI like asking the person who made the PSD to provide me with the equiv HTML :-)
17:56.15justincarmonylol
17:56.33justincarmonywhen I design an layout in photoshop or whatever, I always think how I'm going to do it in HTML
18:00.15SunSparcThat limits your creativity though. ;)
18:00.28SunSparcYou don't want to be limiting your designers.
18:00.49influxsemi-transparent menu systems are a snap.
18:00.58SunSparcIf you add limitations after you get the design, that should be fine.  Just use their design as a guideline.
18:01.06influxset the background of the element to a png, use the ie hack... presto changeo
18:01.34influxUse ie conditionals if needed.
18:03.07SunSparc~lart IE
18:03.07ibotdecapitates IE conan the destroyer style
18:03.17SunSparcPerfect ibot.
18:03.26SunSparc~karma IE
18:03.26ibotie has karma of -667
18:03.31SunSparcHrmmm
18:03.39SunSparcI hate to do it...
18:03.48SunSparc~IE++
18:03.55SunSparc~karma IE
18:03.55ibotie has karma of -666
18:04.07SunSparcMuch better.
18:04.12influxhurr
18:04.17mindjujuinflux - it's more than that though, a semi transparent menuing system?
18:04.29mindjujuit's going to be competing with anything beneath it
18:04.40mindjujueven in the PSD it competes and doesn't look good
18:05.02mindjujusure, its a flash crowd pleaser, but it isn't practical
18:05.07SunSparcJust use unicorns for the background.
18:05.32Utah_DaveI'm going to take a screen shot of SunSparc upping IE's Karma
18:05.39SunSparclol
18:05.44influxAh. You were talking about the design choice.
18:05.47mindjujui was just thinking that
18:05.47influxstyle choice*
18:05.53influxdesign/style/butts
18:06.12influxYeah. Not a good thing.
18:06.21SunSparcUtah_Dave: I was for a good cause.
18:06.25SunSparcit
18:07.39Utah_Dave:)
18:07.43Utah_Dave~tease SunSparc
18:07.43ibotACTION tickles SunSparc with a feather and makes SunSparc rotflmaopimp-ing
18:07.59SunSparclol
18:08.30josephscottall this talk of menus reminds me of this - http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/menubar/default.asp
18:08.40josephscotthttp://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/menubar/demo.html
18:11.24beandogmindjuju: ping
18:12.03beandogwow, its a bad sign when you remember your CC#
18:12.35mindjujuhi beandog
18:12.37mindjujuwhat up bro
18:12.59beandoghold on I just lost it
18:13.34beandogmindjuju: http://www.amazon.com/He-Man-She-Ra-Christmas-Lana-Beeson/dp/B000BFO07I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1263320003&sr=8-2
18:13.36beandog$8 used
18:13.36beandog:D
18:13.54mindjujuway cool!
18:14.13SunSparcbeandog: I have that episode.  My kids love it.
18:14.34beandogSunSparc: episode? Its just one short cartoon?
18:14.40SunSparcYep
18:14.44beandogoh poo.
18:14.50beandogOh, 51 minutes
18:14.51beandogthats not bad
18:15.03SunSparcYeah, like a double episode.
18:15.31mindjujuhow can you argue with this?
18:25.04macnewboldmost of you might enjoy this: http://thishelpdesk.com/clash-of-the-fanboys/
18:26.07SunSparcLOL
18:26.15SunSparcNice one macnewbold
18:27.28influxOh no. What is this. *click*
18:27.55influxhehe
18:28.45influxSo, last night I completed a working user login script.
18:29.10influxIt sets a cookie when the user submits the correct information, logging them in.
18:30.13influxNow, when the user is visiting pages only accessible to him or logged in users in general, how do I do that without making things complicated? Do I just check for the cookie in every single relevant page they load?
18:30.47macnewboldinflux: generally yes, that's the way to do it. sometimes even easier/better than a custom cookie is a simple PHP session
18:31.06macnewboldif you set up a session, you can simply store in it the username and the password they used
18:31.20macnewboldthen every page they view you check that against the db, and let them see what they're allowed to see
18:31.34macnewboldor you can set username and a simple "logged in" flag, but that's not quite as secure imho
18:31.36influxHmm.
18:31.52influxThe session will end on window close, though, right?
18:32.39influxWhen might using a php session be the better choice?
18:33.50macnewboldthe php session is simply a cookie with a session id in it
18:33.59macnewboldand the session data is all stored on your server, safe from user viewing or tampering
18:34.13macnewboldthere are a bunch of ini settings you can use to control them
18:34.19macnewboldbut they're extremely helpful in php
18:35.24influxHmm.
18:35.31influxI like this.
18:36.01influxI'm sure I can just switch out all the cookie-related lines with session stuff.
18:38.28justincarmonyhehe, lololol :P
18:41.19influxSo, basically, I'd start the session on successful login, and then work with $_SESSION on other pages.
18:44.27influxOh, I guess I have to put session_start() on every page.
18:44.34SunSparcinflux: If you were using the CakePHP framework, this would all be taken care of for you.  :)
18:45.19influxI don't know if I really want to bother with CakePHP just yet, seeing as how I'm not that far along in my PHP.
18:45.53influxI'm actually really happy I was able to figure out how to complete the login script last night.
18:46.26influxwith the help of supernovia and that one guy
18:46.51influxDtD
18:47.55influxCan session variables persist from one page to the next without having to use forms?
18:52.19influxasdf
18:55.16jsmithjkl;?
18:57.24influxI came back, from putting rice in the rice cooker, to find that my headphones were weighing down the space bar.
18:57.43influxJust wanted to make sure I wasn't going to press enter and send several lines of blank spaces.
18:59.14justincarmonyLOL
18:59.14justincarmony
18:59.28justincarmony"Girl I home teach asked for help with her new blog. I outsourced it to Mechanical Turk. Is that cheating?" Richard K Miller on Twitter :P
18:59.51mindjujuthat's awesome
19:00.01justincarmonymade me laugh
19:00.20mindjujucourse, what kind of work was it that mechinacal turk could do?
19:01.06justincarmonylol, no idea
19:01.28mindjujuthe funny thing about twitter, I got an account there for brand control, i don't use it, i've said like 5 things
19:01.35mindjujubut i keep getting new followers
19:01.46justincarmonylol
19:01.52justincarmonyspam accnts? :P
19:02.09influxProbably.
19:02.16SunSparcI finally locked my twitter account.
19:02.29justincarmonyyeah, I noticed
19:02.30influxSunSparc: You mean you move it to approval-first following?
19:02.31mindjujulocked?
19:02.45SunSparcinflux: yes
19:03.04influxmoved* *facepalm*
19:42.34influxSunSparc: What if I wanted to stay logged even if I were to close the browser and open it again, then navigating back to the site.
19:42.38influx?
19:43.56mindjujuthat would mean that a client who went to the library, checked your site and then closed the browser (quite common) would allow the next user on that computer to be logged into the site
19:44.01mindjujusure that's what you want?
19:44.10SunSparcinflux: Yes, you can do that.
19:44.24SunSparcBut like mindjuju said, it can be a security risk.
19:46.23SunSparcMany sites do it.
19:46.28SunSparcEven Google.
19:46.51SunSparcYou just need to be aware of the risks.
19:47.02mgearymany sites allow you to regulate this behavior by letting you indicate whether your current computer is a "public" computer or not
19:47.12SunSparcYes
19:47.12mgeary(upon login)
19:48.10SunSparcOften times a little check box that says something like "keep me logged in".
19:48.38SunSparcThe default being a session that is timed out or based on the browser staying open at least.
19:49.22mgearyi personally don't like cookies
19:49.30mgearyand avoid them whenever possible in development
19:50.04SunSparc~cookie mgeary
19:50.13josephscottmgeary: do you end up passing some sort of session ID in the URL instead?
19:50.41mgearyheh. okay, point taken. i use temporary cookies to transparently manage sessions
19:51.10influxI would definitely provide a checkbox for public computers.
19:51.30influxOr maybe the "keep me logged in" box instead.
19:51.50josephscottah, you don't like to persistent cookies, that's fair enough
19:52.03SunSparcIt is nearly impossible to manage a dynamic web site without cookies.
19:52.31influxYeah. I just know that I've closed windows on accident and ended up irritated by the fact that I have to log back in. It's not a big deal, but... yeah.
19:52.40josephscott1995 is calling, they want their cookie free web back
19:52.44influxhah
19:52.47SunSparclol
19:53.06mgearyjosephscott: good clarification, yes.
19:53.24influxHack the planet.
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19:54.10josephscottmy mistake, looks like the first cookie supported browser was end of 1994, I was off by a few months (that was a long time ago, memory isn't so good any more)
19:54.54influxsigns up*
19:55.05influxI remember using AOL back in the bad old days.
19:55.21SunSparcheh, those are still here for some people
19:55.46mgearyGopher++
19:55.57SunSparcTotally
19:56.03josephscottstop it, I'm tearing up remembering the good old BBS days
19:56.34SunSparcAh yeah.  BBS gaming...
19:56.53SunSparcand ASCII art.
19:56.55mindjujuHarry's Asylum BBS was the best in Houston!
19:57.06SunSparcMUD's
19:57.06mindjujucirca 88?
19:59.31mindjujufor josephscott - http://blip.tv/file/607974
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20:00.24josephscottback in the day I had memorized quite a bit of the AT command set
20:01.00mindjujuthat's actually on your automattic profile i think
20:01.13mindjujuthat you had / have them memorized
20:01.23josephscottworking at an ISP in the 90s will do that to you
20:02.17SunSparcYeah, I use to be able to follow a handshake sequence fairly well.  Even could tell the difference between different speeds being negotiated.
20:02.25SunSparcScary
20:04.43mindjujuwhat was the name of that sound card that was suppose to be freakin' awesome, you'd usually have 2 choices of sound card, sound blaster, or this other
20:04.45mindjujui forget
20:04.46mgearyheh. i remember as a kid going down to the BYU library and paying $1 per hour to play some sort of primitive dungeon/wilderness RPG
20:05.04mgearyon their mainframe terminals
20:05.42mindjujumgeary, i think that was called adventure, i never got into that one, but another one i did
20:05.47mindjujui think it was called gal trader
20:05.57mindjujuwhere you had a space sip and went to different ports
20:06.04mindjujuand buy stuff and sell it elsewhere
20:09.15romanovicnethack ftw!
20:14.39josephscottI miss tradewars
20:17.08mindjujutradewars i do remember playing, but it was diff from gal trader, and I only remember playing tradewars on bbs
20:17.45mindjujuat least i don't remember playing it at university when i'd go up with my sis who was attending at the time
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20:45.43justincarmonyARRRRRG asdfhasldfhaslkdfjhaslkdfjh
20:45.45justincarmonyI hate Apple
20:46.26macnewboldLowerLights BBS all the way
20:47.51josephscottjustincarmony: I think someone has been spending too much time outside of the steve jobs reality distortion field.
20:48.25justincarmonytheir iPhone App Provisioning Certificates are retarded
20:48.25justincarmonyfull blown insane
20:48.40justincarmonyI can't get my phone to install a dev app
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20:58.35justincarmonybrb, rebooting
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21:21.28justincarmonyfor a company who prides themselves on easy of use, Apple's dev stuff is utter crap
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21:41.38justincarmonyfinally got it working
21:50.18*** join/#uphpu esteban (n=chatzill@190.190.191.153)
21:50.31estebanHello, I've set .htaccess to restrict users access to a folder. But there is a way to set the session duration? is it configurated in PHP or it is a variable in .htaccess?... Some volunteer here?
21:51.22unumphp
21:52.31estebanunum... PHP "drives" the seesion duration opened by htaccess?
21:53.09unumopen sorry I should have read that closer
21:53.14unumoops I meant
21:53.33utahconlol you mispelled oops
21:53.34utahcon:D
21:53.42unumso you are forcing people to authenticate through apache?
21:53.53unumwhich authentication method are you using?
21:54.00fungususing .htaccess for authentication has no connection to PHP
21:54.29fungusGenerally browsers will persist HTTP AUTH through the session if the server name remains the same
21:55.31fungusbut it is ultimately up to the browser to determine the session duration, usually until you close the browser
21:55.51estebanOk, here is the "problem": I have to "limit" the access to a folder. Touch the php code will be a nightmare 'cause I have not time :S
21:56.10estebanso, my first attemp is create the htaccess
21:57.00estebanbut here is the problem: how to set session duration :S
21:58.00fungusYou can't use HTTP auth with a session duration.  you'll have to use PHP with a form.
21:59.45estebanummm... so... I´ll have to modify the index.php in order to have session limit and user identification.... NO other way :S
22:00.11fungusYou will need to shift all of the authentication code away from a .htaccess into PHP
22:01.09estebanok... I´ll see how to do that with the less impact in the code :'(
22:01.56estebanthanks fungus... your wisdom has been usefull to me...
22:02.21estebanwisdom ?= advice :S
22:02.23mindjuju~fungus++
22:02.52estebansee you latter guys... thanks again
22:03.03*** part/#uphpu esteban (n=chatzill@190.190.191.153)
22:04.54DexterTheDragonI always wonder how people on the other side of the planet end up in here
22:05.12mindjujuwe're world famous of course
22:05.52jsmithDexterTheDragon: Because where else would *you* turn to find the smartest and friendliest PHP people?
22:06.54mindjujuoh my
22:06.58mindjujuoh my my
22:07.12mindjujuFrance's interp of Star Wars
22:07.13mindjujuhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jz0G-RrDs
22:07.18mindjujuDISTURBING!
22:07.28mindjujubeandog, DtD ^^
22:07.49herlomindjuju: uh, that's so last week :)
22:08.04mindjuju~nosepick herlo
22:08.04ibotACTION plucks herlo out of the nose of humanity and wipes him on the couch!
22:08.47herlo~cook mindjuju
22:08.48ibotACTION throws mindjuju in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks mindjuju on 350 for an hour
22:08.59mindjuju~frenchtaunt herlo
22:09.00ibotACTION summons the french taunter!   herlo, I burst my pimples at you...
22:09.06herlo~simpsons mindjuju
22:09.06ibotACTION sends mindjuju chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!"
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22:09.17mindjuju~porkchop herlo
22:09.18ibotACTION spits on a porkchop and feeds it to herlo   Eat up!
22:09.26herlo~whalepoop mindjuju
22:09.26ibotACTION catapults a truckload of whale poop from a freakishly large killer whale named Hugh at mindjuju
22:09.33mindjuju~nyuk herlo
22:09.34ibotACTION grabs herlo nose and hammers it with his other hand!
22:09.43herlo~thump mindjuju
22:09.44ibotACTION thumps mindjuju in the ear with a brick!
22:09.53mindjuju~macattack herlo
22:09.53ibotACTION uses flame, duct pipe and a cinch belt to launch a beer keg at herlo!
22:10.04jsmith~zap herlo
22:10.05ibotACTION takes out a cattle prod and gives herlo a good jolt.
22:10.05herlo~whallop mindjuju
22:10.06ibotACTION gets her boyfriend herlo to whallop mindjuju until mindjuju whimpers like a little girl!
22:10.09*** part/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@mail.billgood.us)
22:10.13herlo~kick jsmith
22:10.14ibotACTION kicks jsmith
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22:10.22mindjujuoops, wrong winder
22:10.28mindjuju~dthit herlo
22:10.38herlo~monkeypoo mindjuju
22:10.43herlo~poo mindjuju
22:10.44ibotACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at mindjuju
22:12.04herlo~batteringram jsmith
22:12.12herlothat'd be cool :)
22:12.30justincarmonyhey mindjuju
22:12.35justincarmonywe should get listed: http://www.zend.com/en/community/local-php-groups
22:13.05mindjujuwhat's wrong with the list at php.net?
22:13.18justincarmonyI dunno
22:13.22jsmithibot: batteringram $1 is <action> grabs $1 like a battering ram and plows $1 into the wall
22:13.23ibotjsmith: okay
22:13.25justincarmonymight as well as get listed twice :P
22:13.30jsmith~batteringram herlo
22:13.31ibotACTION grabs herlo like a battering ram and plows herlo into the wall
22:13.31mindjujuthe one thing the world needs is another list
22:14.17herlojsmith: awesome!
22:14.24herlo~batteringram jsmith
22:14.24ibotACTION grabs jsmith like a battering ram and plows jsmith into the wall
22:15.26jsmithibot: no, batteringram $1 is <action> grabs $1 like a battering ram and plows $1 into a brick wall
22:15.26ibotokay, jsmith
22:15.32jsmithThere... better
22:16.42herloahh, Conan rules!! http://bit.ly/5fd8G8
22:17.11mindjujuthat's SO 6 minutes ago
22:17.20herlolol
22:17.21mindjujuthat's how long i was reading it before you sent your link :p
22:17.36herlomindjuju: I've been reading about it all day today, it's a great thing to discuss again :)
22:17.56mindjuju...yawn...
22:18.09mindjujunever caught the show, seems like i won't be able to now
22:18.14mindjuju:(
22:18.34herlohe'
22:18.45herlohe's still on until March or something I think
22:19.25funguseh, never watched it anyway.  Colbert and Stewart are much more fun.
22:20.19herloConan has been around a bit longer than either of them
22:20.24herlobut the point isn't about his comedy
22:20.51mindjujutrue that, the point is, did Triumph make the transition to the Tonight show
22:20.57herloit's about him working hard to get to where he is and wanting a chance to show it.  NBC is screwing it up
22:21.01mindjujuand if so, what will become of him now?
22:21.05mindjujuthat's one funny dog
22:21.13herloyeah, he was pretty good
22:21.25herlobut I like dthe 'Year 2000' skit, especially after the year 2000
22:32.47utahconI kinda side with both NBC and Conan.
22:32.54utahconConan worked hard no doubt, but...
22:33.14utahconeven if I worked my ass off, and did really good work, if my boss didn't like it I would be moved or fired...
22:33.17utahconsame scenario
22:33.35utahconhe just makes $9+million/year more than me
22:44.48utahconEvery ad I see for Kick Ass makes it look better... http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810063108/video/17522078
22:56.18mindjujuk, i know this is going to be a weird question, but...
22:56.30mindjujuhas anybody seen a message board that they thought actually looked pleasant ?
23:04.08funguslol, pleasant message boards?  isn't that an oxymoron
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23:27.46justincarmonynetsplit
23:27.46justincarmony:P
23:27.54SunSparcYuck
23:28.09SunSparc~lart netsplits
23:28.09ibottakes out netsplits with the trash
23:31.18justincarmonySunSparc: how do you like MW2 on PC?
23:31.41SunSparcjustincarmony: LOVE IT!!!
23:31.53justincarmonyhow about Multiplay w/o servers?
23:32.14SunSparcLOVE IT!!!
23:32.24justincarmonyreally?
23:32.36justincarmonyhow hard is it to get a game going that is private?
23:32.39SunSparcMy own server would be nice and all, but I am quickly getting over it.
23:32.49SunSparcPrivate is easy.
23:33.04SunSparcIW did a better job than most people expected, imho.
23:34.58SunSparcI would change the fact that you do not get experience points in a private game though.
23:35.11justincarmonythat stinks
23:35.49SunSparcYeah, but I am over it.
23:38.58SunSparcOk, aside from the crass title, that Kick Ass movie actually looks watchable.
23:39.31SunSparcutahcon: ^
23:51.00justincarmonymindjuju: whats the topic for the upcoming uphpu meeting?
23:51.48mindjujuwhat meeting?
23:52.15justincarmonynext week's uphpu, the main presentation
23:52.24josephscottmindjuju: isn't there a UPHPU meeting on the 21st?
23:52.28mindjujuthere is a meeting next week?
23:52.37mindjujui'm just kidding guys
23:52.40justincarmonylol
23:52.41mindjujuhtere is a meeting next week
23:52.47mindjujuthe speaker is getting me his stuff
23:53.00justincarmonyI guess I won't come down and bring popeyes :P
23:53.04josephscottgah! that's my second daughters birthday
23:53.36josephscotthmmm, she's usually in bed by 7pm :-)
23:53.44justincarmonylol, yeah :P
23:53.44mindjujuit's goign to on running an optimized LAMP stack AFAIK or something like that
23:53.50justincarmonymindjuju: whose the speaker?
23:53.56mindjujubut i should have that pretty quick
23:54.01mindjujuthat would be heartsbane
23:54.09mindjujutrevor sharpe

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