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| 00:46.58 | beandog | Im in the mood for a movie |
| 00:47.04 | beandog | nothing good playing |
| 00:47.06 | beandog | :( |
| 00:48.18 | beandog | TRON comes out next week :D |
| 02:05.02 | influx | beandog: Rad. |
| 02:05.27 | influx | I need a refresher. |
| 02:05.47 | influx | Maybe I can find a dvd of the original tron on sale. |
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| 03:06.24 | beandog | influx: Im hoping disney will put the original on bluray |
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| 04:41.13 | PoeticIntensity | ~puke |
| 04:41.14 | ibot | HOOF BLEEEECH! *flush* |
| 04:41.19 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 04:57.01 | influx | beandog: That would be cool. I'm stuck in the video disc bronze age myself. |
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| 16:32.03 | utahcon | how can I find any files in a dir tree that are not a of particular filetype (by ext)? |
| 16:32.43 | DexterTheDragon | find . -not -name "*.ext" |
| 16:39.24 | utahcon | thanks |
| 16:51.28 | mindjuju | ~07DexterTheDragon01++ |
| 17:03.21 | mindjuju | 01wasn't there somebody here who got the android? |
| 17:03.28 | mindjuju | 01err, i mean droid |
| 17:03.31 | mindjuju | 01by motorola |
| 17:08.31 | fungus | I didn't "get" one, but i got to play with it for a few hours |
| 17:09.25 | mindjuju | 01like it? |
| 17:09.41 | mindjuju | 01it's SO hard to stomach the data access plan at $44 |
| 17:09.46 | unum | I have it |
| 17:09.49 | mindjuju | 01for so called "unlimited" |
| 17:09.57 | unum | my data plan was only $30/month |
| 17:10.12 | unum | can you change your font colorL |
| 17:10.14 | unum | ? |
| 17:10.22 | unum | I have a black back ground |
| 17:10.59 | mindjuju | 01my font color? |
| 17:11.11 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: I can't see a thing your typing..... |
| 17:12.19 | unum | your irc client seems to have a font color setting that overrides the my defaults |
| 17:12.35 | unum | anyways, I really like the droid |
| 17:12.44 | mindjuju | 01is this better? |
| 17:12.44 | unum | having google maps on me at all times is really nice |
| 17:12.51 | unum | nope, it's the same |
| 17:13.25 | unum | I probably use it more for reading face book while standing in line than anything, but that's not really important |
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| 17:14.20 | mindjuju | how about this? |
| 17:14.31 | DexterTheDragon | can see that |
| 17:14.36 | unum | perfect |
| 17:14.46 | DexterTheDragon | so what were like the last 10 things you said |
| 17:14.50 | mindjuju | i think i could handle a $30 data plan |
| 17:14.56 | mindjuju | i was asking if anybody had the droid |
| 17:15.03 | mindjuju | and if they liked it |
| 17:15.18 | DexterTheDragon | not yet |
| 17:15.19 | mindjuju | since i've packed up all my emails and shited everything to google |
| 17:15.26 | mindjuju | including homework, school notes etc |
| 17:15.33 | mindjuju | i wondered if i should get the droid |
| 17:15.34 | DexterTheDragon | utahcon and herlo love theirs |
| 17:15.35 | unum | I've been using my own email account from it |
| 17:15.56 | unum | that's been nice. I can shut off my computer at home now. |
| 17:16.06 | unum | I mostly used it to check personal mail |
| 17:16.12 | mindjuju | i hear it has an ssh client too |
| 17:16.22 | unum | I've been using connectbot |
| 17:16.33 | unum | haven't figured out how to send the esc yet |
| 17:17.00 | unum | the keyboard's not the easiest to type from either |
| 17:17.12 | DexterTheDragon | what phone do you have unum? |
| 17:17.41 | unum | I have the droid |
| 17:17.51 | unum | bought it the day it came out |
| 17:24.59 | unum | I previous phone was 4 years old |
| 17:26.20 | unum | s/I/my |
| 17:26.36 | unum | and was the most basic model I could get |
| 17:32.38 | mindjuju | so if i said sudo aptitude upgrade, it comes back and says there are 26MB of patches and I say yes |
| 17:32.47 | mindjuju | then it starts downloading uber slow |
| 17:32.50 | mindjuju | can I abort? |
| 17:33.33 | mindjuju | believe it or not, for some reason i'm downloading at 2kbps |
| 17:34.13 | DexterTheDragon | yes |
| 17:34.40 | DexterTheDragon | it will download everything first, then do package checks, then install them |
| 17:35.12 | mindjuju | awesome! |
| 17:44.38 | mindjuju | man, now i'm scared |
| 17:44.40 | mindjuju | http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1233732 |
| 17:52.01 | unum | mindjuju: are you taking a class from him? |
| 17:52.16 | mindjuju | next semester i will be |
| 17:52.20 | mindjuju | do you know him? |
| 17:55.20 | influx | "If you put in the work, an A is possible but difficult and time consuming" |
| 17:55.34 | mindjuju | yeah, saw that |
| 17:55.37 | influx | Because school is supposed to be easy. |
| 17:55.53 | mindjuju | not sure i follow influx |
| 17:55.57 | mindjuju | did you have him? |
| 17:56.27 | influx | No, the comment made just irked me. |
| 17:56.49 | influx | I've never thought that college should be a cakewalk, which is what I think that poster expects. |
| 17:56.54 | influx | expects it to be* |
| 17:57.10 | influx | But, no, I haven't had him. Sorry to derail. |
| 17:57.41 | unum | mindjuju: no, why are you taking a physical education class? |
| 17:57.51 | mindjuju | its required |
| 17:57.57 | unum | weird |
| 17:58.26 | mindjuju | i wonder if there is an alternate class |
| 17:58.46 | unum | influx: there's an expected level of difficulty for a class |
| 17:59.19 | unum | I think it's three hours of outside work for each hour in class |
| 17:59.25 | unum | anything over that is a bit much |
| 17:59.30 | mindjuju | and then there are just bad teachers |
| 17:59.38 | mindjuju | like one i had that gave us assignments |
| 17:59.44 | mindjuju | that were based on last year's book |
| 17:59.53 | mindjuju | and this years book WAS different |
| 18:00.15 | unum | ya, I had one that gave us asignments that were easily over the ten hours she told us to expect |
| 18:00.16 | mindjuju | so we were spending all kinds of time jumping back and forth in chapters to meld together enough info to get an understanding |
| 18:00.25 | unum | becuase she never tried programming them herself |
| 18:00.31 | unum | she has a good rating on that site.... |
| 18:00.44 | unum | though they probably don't let her teach that class anymore |
| 18:01.04 | unum | I think she mostly teaches the beginning classes which now have uniformed assignments |
| 18:01.25 | unum | my favorite cs professor had a bad rating, so I rated him... |
| 18:02.07 | mindjuju | unum, are you at UVU? |
| 18:02.47 | unum | mindjuju: no, I went to USU |
| 18:03.01 | unum | no physicial education class for me :) |
| 18:03.06 | mindjuju | dag! |
| 18:03.12 | unum | of course I probably could get a waiver |
| 18:03.16 | unum | I'm a cripple |
| 18:03.21 | mindjuju | sux to be me |
| 18:03.29 | unum | yes it does |
| 18:03.53 | unum | that's weird to me that a university would make you take a pe class |
| 18:04.06 | unum | unless of course you are a pe major |
| 18:04.13 | mindjuju | i'm CS major |
| 18:04.32 | unum | at usu the cs major is chock full of science and math classes |
| 18:04.38 | unum | no credits to waste on pe |
| 18:04.50 | DexterTheDragon | is it weird that a cs major would make you take english classes? |
| 18:04.54 | mindjuju | much to the relief of fungus and DtD whom incessantly bug with questions |
| 18:05.02 | unum | no that's not so weird |
| 18:05.12 | unum | no matter what you do, you have to communicate |
| 18:05.19 | unum | so speech and english were required |
| 18:05.45 | unum | english,economics,and history are commonly required for all majors |
| 18:05.46 | mindjuju | CS student with no english class: Grrrr Grunt grunt Grunt!! |
| 18:06.06 | mindjuju | CS student with english: why are you bothering me, did you restart windows before you came to me? |
| 18:06.36 | unum | I think an ethics class is also a common requirement |
| 18:07.01 | mindjuju | yeah, velda mentioned having to take ethics |
| 18:07.18 | unum | there are other more broad requirements, but I thought those were the only common specific ones |
| 18:08.42 | jtsnow | unum: who was your fav CS professor at USU? |
| 18:10.36 | utahcon | mindjuju: I have an android based phone (not the droid) and I love it |
| 18:11.01 | mindjuju | what's your data plan cost? |
| 18:11.12 | unum | jtsnow: canon |
| 18:11.19 | unum | with steve being a close second |
| 18:11.22 | utahcon | Tmo just changed it but I am paying $24.99/month |
| 18:11.41 | mindjuju | that's more reasonable |
| 18:11.52 | jtsnow | unum: ah... never had either of them. But, I was a ECE major |
| 18:12.05 | DexterTheDragon | utahcon: what plan are you on? |
| 18:12.55 | utahcon | DexterTheDragon: I am on a grandfathered 800 min Family plan with data |
| 18:12.58 | unum | steve has very good ratings |
| 18:13.14 | unum | I actually looked forward to going to both their classes |
| 18:13.30 | unum | I don't think I can say that about any other non-polisci prof |
| 18:13.36 | unum | man I hated class |
| 18:14.04 | unum | oh I forgat about djsoka or sothing like that in physics |
| 18:14.09 | unum | he wasn't bad |
| 18:14.39 | unum | jtsnow: did you take discrete math? |
| 18:14.47 | jtsnow | yup |
| 18:15.03 | jtsnow | from Brown |
| 18:15.03 | unum | did you have turner, she was THE WORST |
| 18:15.27 | unum | I never had brown, turner bored me to death |
| 18:15.33 | unum | I couldn't handle it |
| 18:15.43 | jtsnow | hehe |
| 18:16.01 | unum | my brain kept trying to claw it's way out |
| 18:17.03 | jtsnow | Clyde bored me to death (CS professor) |
| 18:17.54 | jtsnow | actually, he was not the worst, just probably more fresh in my memory |
| 18:19.42 | unum | was that his last name? |
| 18:19.57 | jtsnow | Clyde |
| 18:20.05 | brasto | thanks, herlo, for introducing me to pho |
| 18:20.45 | unum | I think I heard about him being bad but never had him |
| 18:21.32 | unum | people are complaining about specific professor giving tests on paper |
| 18:21.39 | unum | I thought they all did that |
| 18:21.55 | unum | of course these are often for the intro classes. welcome to college kids |
| 18:27.03 | jtsnow | yeah, for an exam, I'd much rather write my assembly language on paper than subject it to some grader trying to compile it |
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| 18:34.34 | influx | heh |
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| 19:41.57 | DexterTheDragon | fungus: what irc server daemon do you use? |
| 19:42.10 | fungus | ircd |
| 19:42.12 | fungus | pretty basic |
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| 20:21.03 | Dezertol | any of you use symfony |
| 20:21.24 | Dezertol | i'm thinking about giving it a run |
| 20:30.21 | SunSparc | Who does not love a good cake? ;) |
| 20:31.00 | SunSparc | I considered Symfony several years ago, before I chose CakePHP. |
| 20:34.44 | _psychic_ | Kinda depends on your style |
| 20:35.05 | Dezertol | I have only ever used my own systems |
| 20:35.28 | Dezertol | so using xml files to autogenerate stuff is not something I've done |
| 20:35.31 | _psychic_ | I love cake too, but some people view it as restrictive |
| 20:35.45 | _psychic_ | well with Symfony you use quite a bit of YAML |
| 20:36.04 | Dezertol | ya I see that.. I'm watching a demo vid |
| 20:36.29 | Dezertol | my quam is that it seems there is a TON of extra crap that never get's used |
| 20:37.10 | _psychic_ | yeah I didn't like the bloat, personally |
| 20:37.16 | _psychic_ | and I've never really liked Doctrine |
| 20:37.31 | Dezertol | I've used php's ADODB and DB_DataObject |
| 20:37.37 | Dezertol | I use the ADODB one the most |
| 20:37.54 | _psychic_ | A DB abstration layer is different from ORM tho |
| 20:38.01 | Dezertol | ya |
| 20:38.24 | Dezertol | just not sure I want to dump the time into learning a whole new system of doing the same thing |
| 20:38.33 | Dezertol | for the sake of saving a few minutes here and there |
| 20:38.50 | _psychic_ | that'll be the case with almost any framework |
| 20:38.57 | _psychic_ | but I've really gained speed from learning a system and going with it |
| 20:39.05 | SunSparc | Probably depends also on how many times you are setting up new web sites. |
| 20:39.12 | _psychic_ | and once you learn one, others are easier to pick up since you know the mechanisms |
| 20:39.27 | Dezertol | what is the favorite framework among the uphpu group |
| 20:39.43 | _psychic_ | maybe CI and Cake? |
| 20:39.46 | Dezertol | anyone know anyone that works at Q90 |
| 20:40.03 | Dezertol | the company I work for might be trying to license there framwork |
| 20:40.18 | Dezertol | and I have to go meet with them tomorrow to see how it is |
| 20:41.46 | SunSparc | Dezertol: Do yourself a favor and at least download the latest version of Cake and check it out. In my opinion, it is very well laid out. Clean and simple, with a lot of power under the icing. |
| 20:42.58 | Dezertol | I'm looking at Code Igniter right now.. I'll check cake next.. |
| 20:43.09 | Dezertol | I don't want to go into that meeting tomorrow not knowing what else is out there |
| 20:43.22 | SunSparc | I have heard good things about CI as well. |
| 20:43.43 | Dezertol | I want to spend some time with as many as I can before tomorrow |
| 20:46.28 | Dezertol | so far CI is very very similar to my own framwork |
| 20:46.33 | Dezertol | lol didn't even know |
| 20:46.34 | SunSparc | I don't mean to inundate you, but here is a short list of popular frameworks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks#PHP |
| 20:46.50 | Dezertol | cool thx |
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| 20:49.51 | Dezertol | i'm not a fan of embeding php code into the html |
| 20:50.33 | Dezertol | CI does not use any what I'd call a template it's html with embedded php |
| 20:50.50 | Dezertol | so.. on to check out cake |
| 20:50.51 | Dezertol | lol |
| 20:52.28 | DexterTheDragon | CI views are pretty much the same as Cake views |
| 20:53.10 | Dezertol | i'm a XTemplate fan |
| 20:53.20 | Dezertol | I've uses smarty to |
| 20:53.32 | Dezertol | but I like XTemplate much more |
| 20:55.34 | SunSparc | Then you may not like Cake, it just uses plain PHP in the view. Although, if you code your controller properly you usually do not need to use much PHP in the view. I prefer use PHP over a templating language. PHP is already a template language, why learn another to embed in it and bloat the libraries even more. |
| 20:55.35 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:56.09 | Dezertol | well.. XTemplate is one file |
| 20:56.19 | Dezertol | and you don't have to learn any extra code |
| 20:56.35 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:56.42 | Dezertol | you just start sections with <!-- BEGIN: section --> <!-- END: section --> |
| 20:57.01 | SunSparc | Just keep telling yourself that. :) |
| 20:57.03 | Dezertol | and you can control what happens between the sections |
| 20:58.32 | Dezertol | for me.. I can use a full already done template http://www.freecsstemplates.org/ |
| 20:58.44 | Dezertol | add a few of the xtemplate html comment lines |
| 20:58.51 | Dezertol | and have a full interface already mostly done |
| 20:59.29 | Dezertol | I create one controller for each page.. and a template file for the content of each page |
| 20:59.32 | Dezertol | and that's it |
| 21:00.04 | Dezertol | using that ADODB active record set's for all my data in and out.. |
| 21:00.05 | SunSparc | Are you trying to sell me on a templating system? heh |
| 21:00.12 | Dezertol | lol |
| 21:00.18 | Dezertol | just saying don't knock it tell ya try it |
| 21:00.44 | DexterTheDragon | sounds exactly the same as CI and cakes MVC system |
| 21:00.52 | SunSparc | Tried Smarty and decided I would never use a templating system again. |
| 21:01.01 | Dezertol | smarty kinda sucks |
| 21:01.15 | _psychic_ | goes back to my whole meta language complaint |
| 21:01.15 | Dezertol | for me... I didn't see a reason to use smarty |
| 21:01.18 | _psychic_ | there's just no reason |
| 21:01.25 | Dezertol | if I was going to put my logic code inthe html anywya |
| 21:01.29 | Dezertol | then why not just use php |
| 21:01.42 | Dezertol | but with xtemplate there is no logic code in the templates |
| 21:02.13 | SunSparc | Sure there is, it is just called something else. Obfuscated. |
| 21:02.22 | jtsnow | heh |
| 21:03.22 | Dezertol | nope |
| 21:03.27 | Dezertol | no logic code |
| 21:03.56 | Dezertol | you do the logic in php |
| 21:03.58 | olds | I'm hot for django |
| 21:04.15 | mgeary | amen, bro |
| 21:04.47 | Dezertol | that one wont fly |
| 21:04.48 | DexterTheDragon | ditto |
| 21:04.56 | Dezertol | I'm trying to get them away from Rails |
| 21:05.05 | Dezertol | i'm not going to jump into pytho |
| 21:05.08 | Dezertol | phtyon |
| 21:05.16 | Dezertol | python |
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| 21:05.38 | olds | Dezertol: django can fly -> http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/10320/django/wallpaper/magic-pony-django-wallpaper.png |
| 21:05.57 | SunSparc | lol, cute |
| 21:06.16 | Dezertol | AHH.... MY EYES |
| 21:06.18 | Dezertol | MY EYES |
| 21:06.24 | Dezertol | someone quick get me some bleach |
| 21:06.40 | olds | my thoughts exactly about some of these php frameworks |
| 21:07.14 | Dezertol | well the problem is that I don't know python and even if I did.. the cost to market isn't worth it |
| 21:07.16 | jtsnow | yeah, if you need a nice framework... why are you using php? |
| 21:07.45 | Dezertol | or we'd just stick with ruby on rails |
| 21:08.00 | Dezertol | half the stuff is in php and the other half is in rails |
| 21:08.19 | olds | I'm sorry, that sounds awful |
| 21:08.33 | Dezertol | and at the end of the day I can hire an army of php guys for the cost of one python or rails guy |
| 21:08.39 | Dezertol | if... I can even find one |
| 21:08.56 | Dezertol | that doesn't live in the UK |
| 21:09.42 | jtsnow | heh... I've been undoing the mess of cheap php labor for the last 2 months |
| 21:10.13 | SunSparc | It takes an army to clean up the mess one PHP army member can make, let alone the mess of the whole army. |
| 21:10.15 | SunSparc | lol |
| 21:10.17 | Dezertol | I understand that... |
| 21:10.42 | Dezertol | but it doesn't change that the number of php people vs ruby or python guys |
| 21:10.45 | Dezertol | is considerable |
| 21:10.51 | Dezertol | and for a company building a huge app |
| 21:10.54 | jtsnow | sure... php can be done right |
| 21:11.08 | Dezertol | and I don't want to be the one codding it next year.. |
| 21:11.46 | Dezertol | also.. no matter what language it's in I'm going to need a team of people |
| 21:12.04 | Dezertol | and finding a team of Python or ruby guys that have any idea what there doing is much harder |
| 21:12.17 | Dezertol | unless you can pay them 200,000 a day |
| 21:12.21 | olds | imo, it's harder, but worth it |
| 21:12.29 | Dezertol | no it's not |
| 21:12.33 | Dezertol | not from a cost stand point |
| 21:12.34 | olds | ok |
| 21:12.56 | olds | you're making the assumption that you have to hire the same number of people |
| 21:12.58 | Dezertol | by the time I hire 5 ruby guys all wanting 90K a year |
| 21:13.43 | Dezertol | there are to many projects on the ground right now that need work |
| 21:13.51 | olds | then why are you on irc |
| 21:13.57 | Dezertol | I can't expect 1 or 2 guys to do 4 or 5 all at the same time |
| 21:13.59 | olds | :) |
| 21:14.07 | Dezertol | I'm evaluting frameworks |
| 21:14.40 | Dezertol | so I can make an educated evaluation to a php framework they're planning to buy |
| 21:14.46 | mgeary | hey, you guys dissin' on Smarty-- you're all wrong ;) |
| 21:15.07 | SunSparc | ~lart Smarty |
| 21:15.07 | ibot | puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, Smarty, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 21:15.45 | mgeary | Dezertol, if i were to start from scratch today, and i couldn't use django, i'd probably opt for the Zend framework |
| 21:16.49 | Dezertol | any specific reason why? |
| 21:17.21 | mgeary | what i've seen looks like it's going in the right direction, has a lot of muscle behind it, and some folks i respect think highly of it |
| 21:17.38 | _psychic_ | right direction how? |
| 21:18.04 | olds | it's better than all of that crappy cakephp documentation ;) |
| 21:18.12 | SunSparc | lol |
| 21:18.27 | mgeary | i'm not prepared or equipped to start defending Zend. I'm just saying that if i were starting from scratch today, and i had to work with PHP, that'd probably be what i'd chose |
| 21:18.37 | SunSparc | ~spank olds |
| 21:18.37 | ibot | ACTION bends olds over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on olds's pasty white buttocks. |
| 21:18.42 | _psychic_ | olds: well I agree there... but I get paid less than they do ;) |
| 21:18.46 | olds | haha |
| 21:18.48 | olds | ^5 |
| 21:18.58 | _psychic_ | mgeary: I'm not asking you to defend, I'm asking you to elaborate |
| 21:19.17 | _psychic_ | olds: how 'bout that draw? |
| 21:19.26 | mgeary | and i'm saying i haven't done an exhaustive study/comparison, because i don't have to, because we're moving forward with django |
| 21:19.46 | olds | not too shabby |
| 21:19.51 | olds | I have tickets to 5 games |
| 21:19.53 | _psychic_ | I liked Django till I hit the view layer |
| 21:19.55 | olds | 4 group stage |
| 21:19.57 | olds | 1 round of 16 |
| 21:20.02 | _psychic_ | having to learn some view-specific language always bugs me |
| 21:20.07 | _psychic_ | olds: that's sweet |
| 21:20.12 | _psychic_ | olds: you were at the MLS cup, too, right? |
| 21:20.19 | olds | _psychic_: from a programmer persepctive I agree |
| 21:20.20 | olds | yea |
| 21:20.34 | olds | mid field line, 5th row |
| 21:20.35 | mgeary | view-specific languages+++++ |
| 21:20.49 | DexterTheDragon | django's template language is > * |
| 21:20.53 | mgeary | they're important |
| 21:21.03 | _psychic_ | they're also useless outside of the framework |
| 21:21.18 | olds | so? |
| 21:21.21 | mgeary | and....? |
| 21:21.24 | SunSparc | ~nuke view-specific languages |
| 21:21.25 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at view-specific languages ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 21:21.30 | _psychic_ | but from what I can tell, Python doesn't like or allow the willy nilly templating stuff PHP does |
| 21:21.35 | DexterTheDragon | yeah your php is tied to whatever the framework is passing it too |
| 21:22.01 | _psychic_ | olds: mgeary: so and that's why I don't like em. It's like memorizing all your girifriends favorite songs on guitar, then she dumps you |
| 21:22.39 | _psychic_ | It's a personal preference and I realize that. |
| 21:22.39 | olds | it's not as though you suddenly then don't understand loops |
| 21:23.00 | olds | or some other basic control/formatting structure |
| 21:23.21 | _psychic_ | yes but why not just use Python's existing syntax, since that what you know already anyway? |
| 21:23.40 | olds | ahh, but you see, our frontend team isn't full of programmers |
| 21:24.00 | Dezertol | I'm telln ya.. xtemplate doesn't use logic in the template file |
| 21:24.11 | Dezertol | it's just html |
| 21:24.33 | olds | so to them, it's powerful enough to do what they need |
| 21:24.38 | olds | without having to learn python |
| 21:24.52 | _psychic_ | well it's the same with a different syntax |
| 21:24.58 | olds | in some cases, yea |
| 21:25.01 | _psychic_ | it's probably as easy to learn the python loop syntax |
| 21:25.09 | jtsnow | it wouldn't kill a front end programmer to learn a few control statements ;) |
| 21:25.16 | _psychic_ | well they have to |
| 21:25.20 | olds | the problem is that people end up doing semi-retarded things in the view if they can |
| 21:25.41 | olds | it ties your hands a little bit, but I'm okay with that |
| 21:25.50 | olds | it's a tradeoff |
| 21:26.00 | _psychic_ | would you say it speeds you up? |
| 21:26.08 | olds | I'm not doing the view layer stuff |
| 21:26.10 | olds | so I can't say |
| 21:26.14 | _psychic_ | mgeary: ? |
| 21:27.11 | SunSparc | This music speeds me up... |
| 21:27.52 | mgeary | sorry, back now |
| 21:27.54 | mgeary | reading up |
| 21:28.29 | mgeary | yep. i agree with olds' comments |
| 21:28.41 | _psychic_ | good to know |
| 21:28.51 | _psychic_ | so you'd say it makes things faster for you? |
| 21:28.51 | mgeary | it's not about speed, it's about a clean workflow and isolation of possible problems |
| 21:29.02 | mgeary | the speed bump comes when you avoid problems |
| 21:29.15 | mgeary | if i just wanted speedy development, i'd have php code inline with html |
| 21:29.23 | mgeary | and what a gosh-awful mess that would end up being |
| 21:29.43 | _psychic_ | Well I solve those problems with developers, not frameworks though. |
| 21:29.49 | _psychic_ | I suppose that's the differenc.e |
| 21:29.52 | Dezertol | ugh... zend mixes html and php to |
| 21:30.17 | mgeary | interesting ,Dezertol, i didn't know that |
| 21:30.27 | _psychic_ | so does cake |
| 21:30.31 | Dezertol | http://www.killerphp.com/zend-framework/videos/mvc-zend-part-1.php |
| 21:30.56 | Dezertol | I guess I'm spoiled I've been using xTemplate for several years |
| 21:31.10 | Dezertol | there is no logic in any of my templates.. |
| 21:32.13 | _psychic_ | sure there is |
| 21:32.19 | _psychic_ | I just hope it's only presentational logic |
| 21:34.20 | olds | _psychic_: did you see landon is off to everton |
| 21:34.28 | _psychic_ | on loan |
| 21:34.29 | _psychic_ | right? |
| 21:34.32 | olds | yea |
| 21:34.45 | _psychic_ | Wonder if he'll want to stay over there at some point |
| 21:35.05 | _psychic_ | though I think the Becks debacle may prevent him from doing that |
| 21:35.09 | _psychic_ | or at least not as sloppily |
| 21:35.14 | olds | he's a big fish, small pond kinda guy though |
| 21:35.35 | olds | I'm not sure he can hold his own in the EPL |
| 21:35.55 | _psychic_ | he chokes in high pressure situations |
| 21:36.04 | _psychic_ | *cough* like the MLS cup *cough* |
| 21:36.05 | olds | haha yea |
| 21:36.14 | olds | oh that was so great |
| 21:37.07 | _psychic_ | I was following via twitter |
| 21:37.09 | _psychic_ | and I see |
| 21:37.15 | _psychic_ | OMG Landycakes with the FG! |
| 21:37.16 | _psychic_ | lol |
| 21:41.28 | olds | I'll be surprised if USA vs England isn't the most watched soccer game in American TV history |
| 21:41.59 | olds | it'll be on a saturday afternoon here |
| 21:45.37 | mindjuju | i'm hungry, haven't had lunch yet |
| 21:45.39 | mindjuju | i want pie |
| 22:13.43 | mgeary | how often do people REALLY change their phone menu options? "Please listen carefully, as our menu options have recently changes". Bull crap |
| 22:15.09 | mindjuju | concur |
| 22:17.12 | romanovic | mindjuju: you want pie, or _the_ pie? |
| 22:17.46 | mindjuju | a slice of pecan pie |
| 22:17.50 | mindjuju | with chilly cold milk |
| 22:35.17 | mindjuju | mgeary - why i'd rather be punched int he testicles than call customer service - http://theoatmeal.com/comics/customer_service |
| 22:35.29 | mindjuju | with your recent comment about phone menus, i figure this applies |
| 22:53.14 | mgeary | no kidding |
| 22:59.33 | mgeary | how do you use "dig" to replace "nslookup" ? |
| 22:59.43 | mgeary | i want to do a reverse-lookup on an IP address |
| 23:00.06 | mgeary | ah. dig -x |
| 23:01.19 | mindjuju | so i have multiple websites in apache, and I want to have a unique include path fr each, i've been googling and it seems the best way to do this is through the htaccess, yes? |
| 23:01.33 | mgeary | probably |
| 23:01.41 | mgeary | you may be able to specify something in the vhost |
| 23:02.01 | mindjuju | hmm, vhost would be better i think |
| 23:02.08 | mindjuju | i'll have to google and see if i can do that there |
| 23:03.41 | mgeary | php_value include_path ".:/Volumes/WebServer/virtual-host" |
| 23:03.52 | mindjuju | awesome! |
| 23:03.52 | mgeary | put that in your virtualhost node |
| 23:04.01 | mindjuju | i just was finding something that's similar |
| 23:04.03 | mindjuju | thx! |
| 23:12.42 | mgeary | does anyone here do much html composing for emails? i'm trying to figure out how small a subset of HTML we're dealing with if we need to be viewable in the top 4-5 email clients |
| 23:14.16 | _psychic_ | mmm tables |
| 23:14.20 | _psychic_ | and inline CSS |
| 23:14.25 | _psychic_ | simple inline CSS |
| 23:14.31 | mindjuju | yeah, was going to say |
| 23:14.36 | mindjuju | nothing too complex |
| 23:17.15 | DexterTheDragon | mgeary: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/css/ |
| 23:17.50 | mindjuju | that's cool! i've never seen it like that before |
| 23:19.53 | mgeary | thanks |
| 23:20.03 | mgeary | though i'm disappointed :/ |
| 23:20.43 | tierra | nice, that's handy |
| 23:22.47 | mgeary | i find it especially noteworthy that while Outlook 2003 supported background-url styles, Outlook 2007 does not. What a nice development :( |
| 23:23.34 | DexterTheDragon | and gmail supports *nothing* |
| 23:55.08 | *** join/#uphpu Jacolyte (n=blaine@unaffiliated/jacolyte) |
