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04:49.26herloibot: thats great!
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15:16.29_psychic_http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7786052 ?
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15:41.27_psychic_wha?
15:42.10_psychic_mgeary: ^
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15:42.16mgeary_psychic_: yep
15:42.50mgearyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Hübener
15:43.02_psychic_oh it says he was reinstated
15:43.05mgearyyes
15:43.08_psychic_when SLC heard about it
15:43.09mgearyposthumously, iirc
15:43.12_psychic_yeah
15:43.13mgearyyes
15:43.25mgearyall i'm doing is demonstrating that at one time, sustaining your government was taken much more seriously
15:43.51_psychic_maybe they would have excommunicated Ghandi and MLK too
15:44.27_psychic_the KSL article doesn't have much to do with following the law
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16:45.37mindjuju1further, generalized terms like "the LDS church" really do your arguments a disservice mgeary.  the wiki article describes the Church Leadership making things right once they learned of the situation
16:45.54mindjuju1hardly the LDS church, more appropriately "misguided local LDS leadership"
16:47.14mindjuju1sadly it seems even the LDS church has counts fools, racists and less than desirable in its membership too
16:47.18stderrthe 12th article of faith doesn't say anything about blindly following leaders - just that leaders are necessary.
16:47.30stderrso that's a bit of a stretch either way.
16:48.05mindjuju1stderr, was more arguing counter point to mgeary's point
16:48.11mindjuju1not in general
16:49.40mindjuju1stderr - how is the SLC treatin' ya?
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16:51.18stderrmindjuju: been sick lately
16:51.26stderrthrowing up in the morning for about 30 minutes each morning
16:51.30stderrhaven't eaten in 2 and a half days
16:51.35herlostderr: Pregnant
16:51.42herlomorning sickness
16:51.45stderrheh
16:52.20mindjujuyipes!
16:52.25mindjujuhope it's not the h1n1
16:52.45stderrpfft.  
16:53.03stderrnah it's a stomach problem.  Probably an acid imbalance or something.
16:53.09stderror could be related to my inner ear problems
16:53.22mindjujuor could be related to being surrounded by conservative people
16:53.26mindjujuheh
16:54.01stderrin Salt Lake City?
16:54.09mindjujuah, touche
16:56.36stderrmy gf is going to work for Ralph Becker \m/
16:57.23mgearymindjuju: point taken, however, i wouldn't have ever brought a gun to a Bush event.
16:57.38mindjujuwell maybe you should
16:57.50mgearyhah. they arrested people who wore offensive *t-shirts*
16:57.51mindjujuit's your right, i'm not stopping ya
16:58.07stderrmore important is how they reacted to people carrying guns at Obama's events
16:58.09stderrSanely
16:58.24mindjujui thought they went way overboard
16:58.39mindjujuand hiding the man's face, the guy with the assault rifle, that wasn't right
16:58.50mindjujumade it sound like it was a lynching
16:58.54mindjujuhardly the case
16:59.17stderrwhat're you talking about.  he didn't get arrested.
16:59.28stderrwhich he would've if it was a Bush event.
16:59.29mindjujustderr, that's cool you're gf is working for the mayor
16:59.36mindjujustderr, yeah, i know he wasn't arrested
16:59.38stderrthe RNC put protestors in a caged area
16:59.42stderrand locked them in
16:59.48mindjujuhe was in his right to do so
17:00.03mindjujuyeah, and the DNC did the same
17:00.11mindjujuso if we're pointing fiingers, let's be fair about it
17:01.44stderrhaha, the Democrats locked up _liberal_ protestors because they didn't want to seem crazy because the Dems are a bunch of pussies
17:02.20mindjujulocked up is still locked up
17:02.24mindjujuand both parties did it
17:10.18mindjujuFYI to all - Utah Open Source has put out it's call for volunteers for the conference
17:10.32mindjujuyou get all kinds of perks by volunteering!
17:10.48mindjujulet me see if i can't get you guys a URL for more info
17:10.55mindjujuyou do get a discount, but i cna't remember how much
17:11.27mindjujuhere is URL for more info
17:11.28mindjujuhttp://blog.utos.org/2009/09/02/utosc-2009-volunteers-needed/
17:12.47*** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> UTOS Conference Volunteers needed - http://tinyurl.com/UTOSvol | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
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17:30.19mgearycan anyone here recommend a good professional carpet cleaner in Provo/Orem?
17:32.26stderrtierra.  he gets blood out of carpets in a jiffy.
17:32.34stderruh, I mean, uh, stains.
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17:58.26mgearyhey fungus
17:58.35fungushey
17:59.03mgearywe're having some problems with our mail setup. I don't know if it's client and/or server-related, but one symptom we get is several imapd processes for each user
17:59.37mgearyanother symptom is that messages stop being pulled down
17:59.39fungusthat could be normal
17:59.48fungusmany clients open multiple connections
17:59.57mgearyah
18:00.16mgearywell, with one particular user, for some reason, her client will stop receiving messages at some point in the day
18:00.30mgearyand only a quit and/or restart will fix that
18:00.34mgearyand retrieve the backlog
18:00.48mgearywe've tried switching between Apple Mail, Entourage, and Thunderbird
18:00.52mgearybut none of them are problem-free
18:01.25mgearyhowever, the mail server is pretty ancient. I think i set it up in like 2003
18:01.28fungusanything in the logs?  what imap daemon do you use?
18:01.36mgearyi think it's UW
18:01.45mgearyi can't find any imap-specific logs
18:01.54mgearyjust the general /var/log/maillog
18:02.10fungusUW IIRC has issues with very large folders
18:02.27mgearyhow large?
18:02.31fungusmainly because they use mbox files for mail storage
18:03.02fungusTry connecting to the server yourself using telnet and see how it performs.
18:03.28fungushttp://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Testing_IMAP_via_telnet
18:05.00fungusEvery folder selection action causes the entire mbox file to be read and parsed into memory
18:06.41fungusIt's possible a few users that have enormous mailboxes are killing the server for everyone else.
18:07.06fungusYou should probably inspect the user's mailboxes for the processes that seem to live a very long time.
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19:02.43mgearyhey fungus
19:02.48mgearyso, i'm still having some issues here
19:03.05mgearythe mailboxes in question are around 900 megs. does that qualify as "large"?
19:03.28fungusit can
19:03.44fungusfor a single mbox?
19:03.50mgearyyeah
19:03.56mgearya folder
19:03.57fungusyeah, that can be difficult
19:03.59mgearyok
19:04.02mgearyso tell me this
19:04.31fungusImagine 4 connections trying to access that mbox.  each consuming 900MB at once
19:04.34fungusthat's tuff stuff
19:04.40mgearyif i just go in on the terminal and delete a mbox file (corresponding to a serverside folder), will that cause havok?
19:05.50fungusum, yeah.  your user will be quite unhappy
19:05.50mgearyno, no
19:05.51mgearyit's a folder that can be deleted
19:05.51mgearyjust not sure if there are "pointers" of some sort to it
19:05.51mgearyor if i can just rm it
19:05.51fungusyeah, you can nuke away
19:05.57mgearyalso, the "Deleted Messages" file is very large. Can i truncate that somehow?
19:09.00fungusyeah, it's just an mbox
19:09.10fungusyou can edit it with  vim if you need to
19:09.14fungusor use mutt
19:09.52mgearyso if i just want to zero it out, but not remove the box
19:09.57mgearywhat would you recommend?
19:10.25funguscat /dev/null > mboxfile
19:10.37mgearyok. just didn't know if some sort of header needed to stay
19:11.17bigdog_utmgeary:  you know you want me to build you a new mail server hehe
19:11.25mgearyi totally do
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19:12.22fungusOr at least migrate from mbox to Maildir
19:12.28fungusmbox is painful
19:12.30bigdog_uti hate mbox
19:12.48thebigdogsuch a huge pain to use
19:12.50fungusbut you would need to swap out the daemon too.  UW only supports mbox
19:13.19fungusAnd you would need to convert all the mbox files to Maildir for all users.
19:13.23mindjujui'm glad to know i'm on a good one :)
19:13.39fungusIt's a painful upgrade process, but it is totally worth it
19:13.59thebigdoghehe or tell you users to backup their own mail
19:19.51mgearymaildir has a one-file-per-email approach, right?
19:22.19fungusyup
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20:17.31stderrwe should do a geek bbq sometime soon
20:21.19fungus~rot13 bbq
20:21.19ibotood
20:51.14utahcon~rot13 bqq
20:51.14ibotodd
20:51.57utahcon~rot13 sbbq
20:51.57ibotfood
20:52.00utahcon:D
20:57.15utahconfungus: you are the resident .htaccess monkey right?
20:57.33fungusin some aspects, i guess.
20:57.37utahconI have http://uptime.utahcon.com
20:57.52utahconI have .htaccess catching and redirecting to utahcon.com/uptime.php
20:58.02utahconis there a way to do that where the URL won't change?
20:58.16utahconI guess... can I make the server serve that page without redirecting?
20:58.45fungusmod_rewrite
20:59.01utahconI am using mod_rewrite, I thought.
20:59.43fungusdon't redirect if you are using it.
21:00.23utahconI am using .htaccess like this
21:00.27utahconRewriteEngine on
21:00.36utahconone sec
21:00.56utahconhttp://pastebin.com/m223f0152
21:02.23fungusRewriteRule ^(.*)$ /path/to/uptime.php
21:02.25funguschange that
21:02.37fungususing a URL in a rule creates a redirect
21:02.42fungususing a path doesn't
21:02.52fungusrelative paths are ok too
21:03.29funguserr, not filesystem path, URL path
21:03.42fungusRewriteRule ^(.*)$ /uptime.php
21:04.01utahconstill redirects...
21:04.17fungusno it doesn't
21:04.29fungus$ curl -v http://uptime.utahcon.com
21:04.30fungus< HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error
21:04.30fungus< Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:04:09 GMT
21:04.47utahconhmm
21:04.51utahconthat is no good :d
21:05.09utahconawesome
21:05.17utahconhmm
21:05.20utahconFirefox is doing it wrong
21:05.32utahconthanks!
21:05.34fungusnp
21:10.23*** join/#uphpu justincarmony (n=justinca@c-98-202-44-233.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
21:10.23*** mode/#UPHPU [+v justincarmony] by ChanServ
21:36.10*** join/#uphpu redroy (n=redroy@66.60.105.178)
21:54.29mgearyi could really go for a Marzipan Rittersport right now
21:55.33mgearyhey fungus, how bad is it to use an ip address for an MX record entry?
21:58.56fungusvery very bad
21:59.02fungusnever MX to an IP
21:59.08mgearythat's what i thought
21:59.12fungusdon't MX to a CNAME either
21:59.17mgearyjust got a request in from someone asking for that
21:59.19fungusMX to an A record
21:59.25mgearytold him i wouldn't. i needed a domain
21:59.42fungusIf you need to create a new A record yourself on your domain
21:59.52fungusand MX to that
21:59.59mgearythere's a thought
22:00.19fungusI use a dirty trick on my domains that don't have email on them.
22:00.28fungusI MX to localhost.sosstaffing.com
22:00.33funguswhich resolves to 127.0.0.1
22:00.35fungushehe
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23:49.51DexterTheDragonsup super_no_via
23:50.03super_no_viahey DexterTheDragon :-)
23:50.34super_no_viaJust looking for a nice fat linear serif superblack font that also happens to be publicly licensed
23:50.56super_no_viahow are things there? Got any brownies? :-)
23:50.57DexterTheDragonright
23:51.16DexterTheDragonunfortionately no. they somehow disappeared
23:51.27super_no_viaThat really is unfortunate
23:55.07mindjujuwho has brownies?
23:56.50mindjujusuper_no_via - how is school goign for ya?
23:57.20super_no_viaOh it's going ok.
23:57.28super_no_viaPE makes me hate myself
23:57.33super_no_viabut the rest of it's alright
23:57.45mindjuju:)
23:57.51mindjujudo you have to run laps or something?
23:57.58super_no_viaYeah did 12 laps on Tuesday
23:58.06super_no_viaand today I got to find out how fat I am
23:58.13mindjujuoh no!
23:58.21mindjujuand you're not fat, you know that right?
23:58.44super_no_viaWell I know I've got to lose some weight but it's always nicer just thinking of it outside numerical terms I think
23:59.09mindjuju12 laps, sounds like fun

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