IRC log for #uphpu on 20090629

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15:23.31thebigdogmindjuju: you get the help you needed?
15:23.40thebigdogmgeary: you get the info you needed
15:23.49mgearyheya thebigdog
15:24.47thebigdogmgeary: didnt you have a question on svn and hooks
15:25.19*** join/#uphpu utahcon (n=utahcon@li51-147.members.linode.com)
15:28.20Lone_WandererOkay, Pidgin sucks forever and needs to die.
15:30.12utahconlol
15:30.22utahconis that because of their 3rd release in 3 weeks?
15:30.52DexterTheDragonno its because for the last 3 years they've released a crappy product
15:31.03utahconDexterTheDragon: duh~
15:31.20utahconfind me a better multi-protocol IM client that is open and I will use it
15:31.33DexterTheDragonbitlbee
15:31.35Lone_WandererIt just keeps screwing up my accounts.
15:32.07Lone_WandererToday AIM and my slashnet account aren't working.
15:32.16*** join/#uphpu justincarmony_ (n=justinca@174-23-125-58.slkc.qwest.net)
15:32.37Lone_WandererAnd neither of them show any indication of being turned off.  They just... aren't there.
15:37.36SunSparc~ie--
15:37.39SunSparc~monday
15:37.40ibotrumour has it, monday is when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems that it takes you until friday to get back to normal. at which point one more thing breaks that takes you the whole weekend to fix, or and on a more positive note, Monday is a brand new day at the beginning of a brand new week, a place to start over and improve on last week.  :)
15:37.44justincarmony_~karma ie
15:37.44ibotie has karma of -227
15:37.46justincarmony_LOL :P
15:38.00SunSparcSweet!
15:38.01Lone_Wanderer~pidgin--
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15:49.12justincarmony_Anyone here on qwest today?
15:50.13SunSparcNope, only at home.
15:51.37mgearyjustincarmony_: i'm on a Qwest pipe with Xmission connectivity
15:51.39mgearydoes that qualify?
15:52.18thebigdogunfortunately
15:53.21Lonnie_I have a Qwest MOE connection here
15:54.03unumug
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16:00.38justincarmonybleh
16:20.51DexterTheDragonhttp://thereifixedit.com/
16:23.20SunSparcLOL!!!!
16:23.27SunSparcLove the car door.
16:29.10*** join/#uphpu beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog)
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16:30.36beandogso did anyone watch transformers?
16:30.44beandogand live to tell about it
16:31.56mindjujumy sister-in-law went
16:31.58mindjujushe HATED it
16:32.05beandogheh
16:32.07beandog:)
16:32.20mindjujusaid no plot at all
16:33.02DexterTheDragonis there supposed to a plot?
16:33.43crohttp://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie
16:35.06*** join/#uphpu carmony (n=justin@174-23-125-58.slkc.qwest.net)
16:35.50Lone_WandererI don't know who Mozy has as their marketing department, but
16:35.57Lone_Wandererthey need a new company
16:36.37mindjujucro - from your link - LaBoeuf projects a pathetic, wall-eyed dorkhood, when he's not babbling like a  tumor removed from Woody Allen's prostate that somehow achieved sentience.
16:36.43mindjujuOUCH!  that's got to hurt!
16:37.00beandogMaybe if you don't like Woody Allen
16:37.07crohmm, pretty graphic
16:37.10DexterTheDragonor prostates
16:37.22beandogit's not a tumah!
16:37.38mindjujulove that movie (kindergarten cop)
16:38.11beandogI really hope this movie puts Michael Bay out of the movie making business for good.
16:39.04mindjujubeandog - too late!
16:39.08mindjujuhttp://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000881/
16:39.14mindjujuTransformers 3!
16:39.17mindjujuAIEEEE!
16:39.20beandogare you serious?
16:39.21beandogMan
16:39.21utahconLone_Wanderer: what is wrong with Mozy ads?
16:39.27beandogIt's just like Pirates of the Carribbean
16:39.35Lone_WandererThey're just cheesy.
16:39.40mindjujuhe's redoing Nightmare on Elm?
16:39.47utahconCheesy is bad?
16:40.03Lone_Wanderer...yeah
16:40.11utahconMichael Bay = Action... Michael Bay != Horror
16:40.14Lone_WandererBecause it's unintentional.
16:40.21utahconwhich ad do you think is too cheesy to be good?
16:40.30Lone_WandererI don't remember
16:40.35Lone_WandererI keep seeing them on hulu
16:41.20DexterTheDragonmost advertising is cheesy and lame
16:41.35mindjujuexcept for Whopper King advertising
16:41.39mindjujuthat's edgey and cool
16:41.46Lone_Wandereroh man, that guy is so, so creepy
16:41.57Lone_Wandererbut yeah, getting good advertising is hard
16:42.14beandogThen dont advertise at all
16:42.14DexterTheDragonmindjuju: the 'don't goto sleep before the king' ones are super stupid
16:42.37mindjujui don't think i've seen those
16:42.55utahconWaking up with the King is the most creepy
16:43.18mindjujuLone_Wanderer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ar3-Oblw68
16:44.06Lone_Wandererthat's disgusting
16:44.12mindjujurofl!
16:44.19Lone_Wanderer(I laughed)
16:44.59utahconlol
16:45.02utahconthat is bad
16:45.27Lone_Wandereroh yeah
16:45.33mindjujuthe one with Paris Hilton?
16:45.41mindjujuooo... you'd get an STD just by watching it
16:45.42Lone_Wandereryep yep
16:45.53beandogo.O
16:46.00utahconmindjuju: nope the new one with Audrina
16:46.01beandogThats my cue to get back to work.
16:46.50*** join/#uphpu _carmony (n=justin@97-126-221-107.slkc.qwest.net)
16:47.05DexterTheDragonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB2MDYzx5OY
16:47.51Lone_WandererParis Hilton one is better
16:48.02Lone_Wandereresp. since I have no idea who Audrina is
16:50.38mindjujumaybe i'm short-sighted, but i'd rather we work on math / science immersion instead of training our children into being the next generation call-center operators - http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12713000?source=rss
16:51.03utahconLone_Wanderer: um... no because it has Paris in it
16:51.11utahcon~Audrina++
16:51.14utahcon~Paris--
16:51.18mgearymindjuju: hey, my daughter is doing that program
16:51.20mgearythat's our school
16:51.34mindjujudo you like it?
16:51.40mgearyhasn't started yet
16:52.11Lone_WandererCool.  I'd put my kids in it.
16:52.19utahconbeing bilingual is never bad
16:52.32mgearywe'd have preferred German, since my wife and i speak that, but french will be acceptable
16:52.33mindjujutrue, but math and science are better
16:52.40mgearymindjuju: it's not an either/or proposition
16:52.49mgearythey'll be teaching math and science *IN* French
16:52.58mindjujuyes, i understand that
16:53.03mindjujubut how well is it received
16:53.18mindjujuis their a drop in understanding because they are trying to learn geometry in a language they don't speak?
16:53.34Lone_WandererIf it starts in first grade, they'll pick it up really quickly.
16:53.34mgearyit's based off of the approach they use in Quebec, where they have a lot of experience with this kind of thing
16:53.44macnewboldmy kids go to a spanish-english bilingual dual immersion school
16:53.47mgearyand yes, you can only join/start in first grade
16:53.50Lone_WandererI learned French and Arabic without even trying at that age.
16:53.52macnewboldfinished K and 2nd last year
16:53.53*** join/#uphpu justincarmony_ (n=justinca@97-126-221-107.slkc.qwest.net)
16:53.55macnewboldit was their first year
16:54.07mindjujuhow did it go macnewbold?
16:54.09macnewboldvery well
16:54.30macnewboldour 2nd grader went from 0 to on-grade-level for a non-native spanish speaker in about 9 months
16:54.35Lone_WandererMy little sisters went to a school where everyone spoke Arabic and they got along fine.
16:54.40utahconinstead I am forced to try Rosetta Stone
16:54.42SunSparcI think every child should know at least 2 languages.
16:54.49mgearyagreed
16:55.01mindjujui'm not saying multi-lingualism isn't good
16:55.02Lone_WandererAt least.
16:55.09Lone_WandererMost of the people from Europe I know speak several.
16:55.12utahconthere is a kid in our complex (under 10 I think) that is fluent in over 5 languages.
16:55.14mindjujui'm saying i wish we'd strengthen our commitment to the basics
16:55.59utahconmindjuju: How you propose teaching math better?
16:56.01utahconmindjuju: How you propose teaching science better?
16:56.12mindjujuteacher improvement, better tech in the classrooms
16:56.14SunSparcMy wife and I use sign language for our infants so that they can communicate before they are able to talk
16:56.21mindjujumore money for better qualified teachers
16:56.45utahconmindjuju: Remember more money for teachers means more taxes for the masses.
16:56.47DexterTheDragonwhich all == higher taxes
16:56.49mindjujufind some way to strengthen PTA and get more parents involved
16:56.58mindjujuoh, gotcha
16:57.02mindjujuthis program is free
16:57.07mindjujumy bad
16:57.10utahconmindjuju: PTA is Utah blows
16:57.27utahconwhen I was growing up in Florida EVERY parent attended.
16:57.35mindjujuit may blow, we parents have an obligation to help
16:57.42mindjujuthis isn't for us, it's for the kids
16:58.08utahconI want to help and participate all I can.
16:58.28Lone_WandererSomehow I don't think that sending your kids to a public school will ever be the best option vis a vis education.
16:58.48mindjujulone_wanderer, that's debatable
16:58.49utahconLone_Wanderer: which is sad
16:58.54mindjujubut i got to split for an 11a
16:58.59Lone_Wandererlater
16:59.08beandogit's not about education, it's about free day care!
16:59.20Lone_WandererYeah that's basically what school is these days.
16:59.31Lone_WandererI like Newt Gingrich's idea - let's just eliminate adolescence.
16:59.35utahconboth of my sisters took teaching jobs... and honestly from what i have learned they could get paid more, but people seem to accept whatever pay is offered and never ask for more.
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17:00.18Lone_Wanderernot to slight your sisters, utahcon, but in general the kind of person who goes for a teaching job is not exactly well qualified to do anything else
17:00.20utahcon~lart justincarmony for leaving the channel in the first place.
17:00.20ibotputs justincarmony through a wood chipper for leaving the channel in the first place.
17:00.39utahconLone_Wanderer: slight all you want... I agree.
17:01.15Lone_WandererWhich is kind of a chicken and egg problem.  As long as we have that sort of person in the current teaching jobs the rates won't go up, and until the rates go up we won't get people who could be doctors and lawyers taking grade school teaching jobs.
17:01.18utahconThe one I will never understand is English classes... teach me something useful.
17:01.26Lone_WandererEnglish isn't useful?
17:01.47DexterTheDragon12 years of this is where a comma goes wasn't useful
17:01.47utahconUnless you are going to be a writer, after 6th grade... no.
17:01.49beandogWell, believe it or not, but there are people where pay rate is irrelevant. :T
17:01.51beandog:B
17:02.15Lone_WandererWell if you'd learn where the damn comma goes the first time, they wouldn't have to spend 12 years trying to teach it to you.
17:02.40Lone_Wandererand everyone is a writer, utahcon.  you and I are writing to each other right now.
17:02.52utahconbeandog: don't get me wrong I will not work for a few dollars more for someone I don't like. But I would work for someone I don't like for double any current payrate.
17:03.07DexterTheDragontexting has destroyed grammer anyway
17:03.14Lone_WandererBeing able to communicate effectively, especially in writing, is vital to success in pretty much every career.
17:03.15utahconLone_Wanderer: But I don't use complex sentence structure.
17:03.16SunSparcAmen to taht
17:03.21Lone_WandererAnd spelling too, apparently - "grammar" ;)
17:03.26utahconWith the exception of coding I almost never use a semi-colon.
17:03.40DexterTheDragondyslexic :)
17:03.54beandogutahcon, to each his own ... I was just trying to debunk the assumption that pay is the only reason someone would stay with a job.
17:03.55Lone_WandererNot here we don't use complex sentence structure, no.
17:04.27utahconIn most aspects of my life I don't use complex sentence structure.
17:04.55Lone_WandererBut you're not going to go anywhere in your career if you can't at least write at a college freshman level.
17:04.56utahconI have never in my life needed/used
17:04.59utahcon
17:05.00SunSparcIf I did not get paid, I would leave my job.  Even if I did have my own stapler.
17:05.04utahconiambic pentameter
17:05.27Lone_WandererI heard about a guy once who spoke in iambic pentameter all the time.
17:05.38utahconwhy would you do that to yourself?
17:05.41*** join/#uphpu justincarmony__ (n=justinca@97-126-221-107.slkc.qwest.net)
17:05.48Lone_WandererI dunno.  I never met him.
17:06.11mgearybecause there's more to life than making money
17:06.16Lone_WandererBut if you're going to complain about being forced to read Shakespeare, I'm not going to have much sympathy for you.
17:06.38utahconFurther more I think there are much better things to pursue in your early adult years than the meaning of shakespeare  
17:07.13Lone_WandererI think you're in the minority on that one, utahcon.
17:07.39stderrhttp://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/29/texas-nightclub-raid-leads-to-protests-by-gay-community/
17:07.43utahconIt's just another one of those things that has never come to fruition in my life.
17:07.55Lone_WandererSo?
17:08.56Lone_WandererJust because you decided to turn your back on a huge part of our cultural heritage doesn't mean we should eliminate it from our curriculum so that no-one will learn to enjoy it any more.
17:09.19utahconIs that what it was about? Learning to enjoy it?
17:09.37stderrwell it certainly teaches you to enjoy wordplay
17:09.37Lone_WandererYeah.
17:09.39utahconI enjoyed it before it was forced down my throat.
17:09.47beandogwow, I just found the soundtrack to CHiPs
17:09.48Lone_WandererDoesn't really sound like it.
17:10.05Lone_WandererI'm feeling some hostility here.
17:10.20utahcontons
17:10.28utahconI really think children should be taught more important things
17:11.52utahconand things like reading shakespeare shouldn't be weighted as heavily as they are
17:11.52Lone_WandererDude, it's one hour a day.
17:11.52beandogI actually liked school
17:11.53Lone_WandererOne class.
17:11.53utahconI loved school.
17:11.53SunSparcjustincarmony: Use OpenDNS
17:11.53beandogI didnt have any problems with it.
17:11.53utahconI hated English class :d
17:11.53beandogoh man, English was my favorite.
17:11.53beandogwell, some years.
17:11.53beandogdepended on the teacher
17:11.53SunSparcbeandog: You need a web host?
17:11.53beandogI remember I had one teacher who was totally unstructured
17:11.53utahconI took some really dumb classes too, things that would be better served as college extra curriculum courses.
17:11.59beandogand she'd just suddenly announce homework randomly ... that drove me insane.
17:12.04beandogSunSparc, yah, Im hosting on a box at home.
17:12.11beandogcomcast went down
17:12.32beandogI always thought college was *easier* than high school
17:12.34utahconwell... /rant
17:12.36utahcongot work to do
17:12.42Lone_Wandererwell, luckily for the rest of the world, you don't get to decide what kids do and don't learn
17:12.44beandogBut that the college approach of learning was much more efficient.
17:12.51utahconbeandog: that is cause you gave a damn about what you were learning in college (mostly)
17:13.00beandogyah I guess so
17:13.03beandogI liked all my classes though.
17:13.12Lone_WandererI wish I could just upload knowledge to my brain.
17:13.52SunSparcMatrix style, yeah.
17:14.00fungusI want wifi for my brain
17:14.21funguswired is soo 90's
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17:27.41justincarmonyok
17:28.00justincarmonyNow my Internet is working... but I think something fried on my PC
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17:34.14carmonyOK, somehow I think we had a power surge go through our ethernet or something
17:34.37carmonymy onboard gigabit ethernet card died
17:39.22Lone_WandererThat would be unusual.
17:42.43carmonyI agree
18:28.05beandogare you sure the janitor just didn't stab at it with a screwdriver
18:39.17mindjujui wonder what would happen if you soldered 2 of the four pair to one 110 volt plug and the other 2 to the other prong
18:39.21mindjujugrr, i mean 2 to 1 prong, and the other 2 to the other prong
18:39.36mindjujuthen carmony's situation would prolly been more dramatic
18:39.45mindjujupossibly explosions Lethal
18:39.50mindjujuLethal Weapons style
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18:53.16Lone_Wandererstderr: Didn't you tell me, at some point, that svn is braindead?
18:53.43stderrsounds like something I'd say
18:53.55Lone_WandererWhat do you use instead?
18:54.02stderrgit
18:54.27Lone_Wanderermmkay
18:55.01mindjujustderr -> PM
18:55.30SunSparcLone_Lunch: No, he did not mean git out of here, git is a version control system like svn.
19:10.20macnewbold~yow
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19:47.14carmonyArg... I just got handed a legacy web service to maintain.... this guy had NO clue on how to make a web service :P
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20:34.28orsonj~ie--
20:35.37beandogcarmony, whats a web service?
20:37.15carmonyIts basically a website for machines. It allows a server and a client to communicate over HTTP using XML
20:37.22DexterTheDragonbeandog: soap
20:40.00fungusAlso XMLRPC and REST
20:40.06thebigdogbeandog: irish spring
20:40.21beandogthebigdog, for that nice top o' the mornin' feeling
20:40.30thebigdogoh yeah
20:40.52thebigdogirish spring soap messages are top o' th' morn'n
20:44.59thebigdogsoap messages...make you...make you...make you!!!!!
20:53.10thebigdogjust up and get down
20:53.10thebigdogjump up...jump up
20:53.25thebigdogi just got done doing a huge soap service/client system
21:04.37itimberI am so not motivated today :(
21:05.42utahconitimber: I am getting to that point
21:06.01utahconbeen stepping through 3500+ lines of SQL/PHP making DB schema changes
21:07.47mindjujucould be worse
21:08.05mindjujuit coudl be Access, which is what i'm having to work with, not my choice
21:08.23mgearyutahcon: no oop?
21:08.48mgearywith a good architecture, db changes should be limited to changing a few classes
21:12.41utahconmgeary: this is old code
21:12.41utahconI am mainly maintaining...
21:12.43utahconbut we are also writing roadmaps to a better world
21:15.21mgeary~headache
21:15.22ibotnot tonight mgeary, I've got a modem.
21:19.17utahconsome of it is written using the Maps only API loader, and some with the General APIs loader
21:19.28utahconbut they are not so clear on which is which sometimes.
21:30.17unumso let's say you had an HTML tablecellelement with some text in it
21:30.25unumand you wanted to extract that text
21:30.29unumwhat would you do?
21:32.13unumchildNodes[0].nodeValue seems to work
21:44.48beandogI'd use curl to grab the URL, use tidy to convert it to XHTML, then parse it using an XML library
21:44.49beandogeasy
21:48.35utahconI know people like that beandog
21:49.57beandogutahcon, eek
22:02.27mgearyunum: beautifulSoup+++++++
22:04.46stderrhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/06/29/carnivorous-clock-eats-bugs-counts-down-to-doomsday/
22:04.49stderrawesome
22:13.28beandogoh man this is going to be awesome
22:13.31beandoghttp://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612
22:13.37beandogThe DM of the Rings is a webcomic by Shamus Young which imagines the characters of The Lord of the Rings movies as players in a Dungeons and Dragons campaign who consistently refuse to stay in-character.
22:15.53beandoglol
22:15.54beandogthis is *great*
22:24.37thebigdoghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-22EpQOm8c
22:25.16orsonj~ie--
22:43.16*** join/#uphpu josephscott (n=josephsc@75-169-246-90.slkc.qwest.net)
22:43.16*** mode/#UPHPU [+v josephscott] by ChanServ
23:04.49itimberI'm out.... later guys
23:11.16*** join/#uphpu Jacob_Kerr (n=Jacob_Ke@174-23-48-26.slkc.qwest.net)
23:11.20Jacob_KerrGood afternoon
23:11.28herlohi
23:11.49Jacob_KerrI have been looking around online on how to force caching on PHP pages.
23:12.17Jacob_KerrYou know how PHP pages set in the HTTP headers: no-cache etc. I can not figure out how to set that to cache.
23:12.45Jacob_KerrAyn help from anyone would be appreciated :)
23:12.49Jacob_KerrAny*
23:13.12herlodunno, sorry
23:13.44Jacob_Kerr:(
23:13.51Jacob_Kerrno problemo man thanx.'
23:16.05stderr"set that to cache" ? what do you mean?
23:17.50mgearyhe wants the browser to cache the response so it doesn't hit the server the second time
23:18.08mgearyi've messed around with that, but usually in the opposite direction
23:18.11Jacob_KerrI want my flash to work :)
23:18.17Jacob_KerrI am preloading images into cache
23:18.39Jacob_Kerrbut because of the HTTP headers it does not want to pull from cache because they tell the browser to not cache.
23:18.49Jacob_KerrCache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
23:18.50mgearyimages...?
23:18.57mgearyyou're serving up images via php?
23:19.10stderrJacob_Kerr: try Last-Modified
23:19.16Jacob_KerrIm preloading the with flash for a flash application into the cache
23:19.23Jacob_Kerrthem*
23:19.45mgearywell, is it your code or the images that are not being cached?
23:19.51mgearythe code? which tells what images to load?
23:19.54Jacob_KerrSo the flash work great when on an html page but if you put it on a php page..
23:20.07mgearyhave you compared the headers of the html versus the php?
23:20.11Jacob_KerrYeah.
23:20.14mgearyCharles Proxy++
23:20.16Jacob_Kerrtot dif.
23:20.21mgearyso, just make 'em the same
23:20.29Jacob_Kerrthe html page does not have: Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
23:20.55mgearyyou may want to do this via apache/.htaccess, rather than php
23:20.55Jacob_KerrK.
23:21.11mgearybut i guess if it's just one page, maybe not
23:21.18Jacob_KerrMy PHP developer acts like it's a huge deal..
23:21.27stderr...
23:22.06Jacob_KerrK i will look into the htaccess thanx :)
23:22.30mgearywell, in my limited experience, there is a lot of voodoo related to forcing and suppressing caching across all browsers
23:22.38Jacob_KerrIf I can find my developer the code he will put it in place. I am a developer also but my role on the project is strictly flash..
23:22.59Jacob_KerrYeah he has it working on Windows but MAC browsers do not want to listen..
23:23.19Jacob_Kerrbut I am checking the headers via Live HTTP headers tool and still: Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
23:24.18mgearydo you have this public somewhere that we could take a look? I'm on a Mac
23:24.44Jacob_KerrYeah but it's on a backend I can PM u but will this be indexed?
23:24.55mgearynot via PM, afaik
23:25.09Jacob_KerrK.
23:25.27Jacob_Kerrcan u PM me I'm not sure how to do PM.
23:25.49mgearyget it?
23:29.59stderrhttp://imgur.com/wiEJN.jpg

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