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| 00:16.28 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: come on down whenever |
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| 04:17.57 | wps | good evening, gents |
| 04:18.09 | wps | anyone still up? |
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| 14:51.15 | orsonj | clonebots? |
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| 15:19.34 | kingsol | good morning all. |
| 15:19.53 | cro | hey Kingsol |
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| 15:28.25 | mgeary | hey, anyone know what time AT&T's "free evenings" start? |
| 15:28.58 | utahcon | I think it is 9 |
| 15:29.55 | mgeary | that seems awfully late |
| 15:30.23 | utahcon | From wireless.att.com "Nights are 9:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. Weekends are 9:00 p.m. Friday to 6:00 a.m. Monday (based on time of day at the cell site or switch providing your service). " |
| 15:31.16 | utahcon | that is scary... what if the switch is off by an hour (or more) |
| 15:31.32 | utahcon | although I would assume the time on the switch is set by the network |
| 15:31.56 | itimber | LMAO |
| 15:32.00 | mgeary | and hands him a burlap sack |
| 15:32.14 | mgeary | nasty critters |
| 15:32.32 | itimber | :) |
| 15:34.00 | mgeary | so, while AT&T supposedly has free mobile-to-mobile, apparently calling your own voicemail doesn't fall under that category |
| 15:37.36 | utahcon | mgeary: really? they are charging you minutes to listen to your voicemail? |
| 15:37.40 | utahcon | that is dumb |
| 15:37.58 | mgeary | well, that's what it seems |
| 15:38.04 | mgeary | yeah, i'm gonna call AT&T |
| 15:38.07 | tierra | phone carriers are all dumb in general |
| 15:40.26 | mgeary | true, that |
| 15:40.50 | itimber | brb |
| 15:40.57 | mgeary | ~pine for itimber |
| 15:41.27 | utahcon | they usually do right by me |
| 15:41.37 | utahcon | With the exception of phone prices... |
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| 15:48.14 | mgeary | ...and upgrades his dang plan |
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| 15:58.09 | utahcon | 313 min used of 800, new minutes start on the 10th |
| 15:58.32 | mgeary | i was sharing a 600-min plan with my wife |
| 15:58.59 | mgeary | and then some |
| 15:59.09 | mgeary | if i could get that dang thebigdog to stop calling me with questions, it wouldn't have been a problem |
| 16:05.57 | mgeary | ~wake thebigdog |
| 16:05.57 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on thebigdog and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 16:10.02 | herlo | cro: hey |
| 16:10.06 | herlo | got your email |
| 16:10.10 | mgeary | best line i've read today: "The solar system is a non-trivial object..." |
| 16:10.17 | cro | herlo: cool |
| 16:10.25 | herlo | no submission is a bad submission, we'll be doing call for papers in probably a month or two... |
| 16:10.33 | herlo | it's not really up to me |
| 16:10.35 | herlo | :) |
| 16:10.40 | herlo | it's up to the core team |
| 16:10.47 | cro | ok, understood |
| 16:11.40 | cro | It felt like something people would be interested in |
| 16:11.49 | cro | and I really learned a lot |
| 16:12.27 | cro | by that time we will be in production, so I'll be able to speak from a "seasoned veteran" perspective. :-) |
| 16:12.59 | herlo | yessir! |
| 16:13.15 | cro | (maybe "grizzled veteran" is a better term) |
| 16:13.24 | herlo | heh |
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| 16:17.52 | thebigdog | oh yeah blame me for it mgeary |
| 16:17.56 | thebigdog | ~blame mgeary |
| 16:17.57 | ibot | ACTION blames mgeary (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 16:18.03 | mgeary | hahaha |
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| 16:54.13 | kingsol | has anyone had any experience using rackspace as a host? recommended? |
| 16:54.41 | kingsol | for vps... |
| 16:54.57 | thebigdog | i have looked at them and I think they are overpriced |
| 16:55.40 | kingsol | agreed. I used ViaVerio for several years, and their mysql performance was killing me... any good suggestions? |
| 16:55.57 | thebigdog | let me check |
| 16:56.00 | thebigdog | i have one |
| 16:56.09 | beandog | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896167032 |
| 16:56.11 | beandog | now that's odd. |
| 16:56.31 | fungus | lol, newegg is really expanding, aren't they? |
| 16:56.47 | beandog | I wonder if they have my favorite shade of lipstick, too |
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| 16:57.10 | utahcon | fungus: what do they have now that is impressing you? |
| 16:57.12 | thebigdog | Contegix |
| 16:57.31 | kingsol | thebigdog: thank you... I'll check them out |
| 16:58.15 | fungus | Great deals on hair dryers. :P |
| 16:58.30 | utahcon | oh my |
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| 16:59.44 | utahcon | hey mindjuju |
| 17:00.29 | mindjuju | sup utahcon |
| 17:00.49 | utahcon | nada |
| 17:00.52 | utahcon | just saying hey |
| 17:01.02 | mindjuju | :) |
| 17:01.06 | kingsol | sup utahcon |
| 17:01.48 | kingsol | this is sollis (if you couldn't tell) |
| 17:02.16 | thebigdog | kingsol, ther is also dreamhost and 1&1 that have been pretty popular too |
| 17:02.28 | kingsol | dreamhost does vps? |
| 17:02.36 | thebigdog | i thought they started |
| 17:02.43 | thebigdog | perhaps i might be mistaken |
| 17:02.49 | kingsol | cool, I'll check those two out as well |
| 17:03.00 | kingsol | thx again |
| 17:03.08 | utahcon | kingsol: Chad? |
| 17:03.13 | thebigdog | http://www.dreamhost.com/hosting-vps.html |
| 17:03.15 | kingsol | si amigo |
| 17:03.23 | utahcon | kingsol: have you checked out Linode? |
| 17:04.02 | kingsol | nope.. just started looking... |
| 17:04.05 | kingsol | I'll add them to the list |
| 17:04.26 | thebigdog | kingsol, dreamhost has vps for mysql too |
| 17:04.34 | kingsol | rocking |
| 17:05.10 | kingsol | how much ram do you really need? is there a good scale based on server calls, or visitors, or something? |
| 17:05.37 | kingsol | in my corporate environment, we have pretty sweet machines, so I've never had to consider this. |
| 17:05.39 | kingsol | ha ha |
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| 17:06.37 | thebigdog | so i got my new LJ mag |
| 17:06.54 | thebigdog | check this out: Favorite Scripting Language |
| 17:06.54 | thebigdog | bash (28%) |
| 17:06.54 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:06.54 | thebigdog | PHP (24%) |
| 17:06.54 | thebigdog | Python (19%) |
| 17:06.54 | thebigdog | Perl (14%) |
| 17:07.08 | thebigdog | bash is rocking...heheh |
| 17:07.11 | kingsol | love bash |
| 17:07.14 | kingsol | ha ha |
| 17:07.20 | beandog | bash rawks. |
| 17:07.23 | thebigdog | Favorite Linux Game |
| 17:07.23 | thebigdog | Frozen Bubble (17%) |
| 17:07.39 | thebigdog | Favorite Primary Linux Distribution of Choice |
| 17:07.39 | thebigdog | Ubuntu (45%) |
| 17:07.39 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:07.39 | thebigdog | Debian (10%) |
| 17:07.55 | thebigdog | Favorite Desktop Environment |
| 17:07.55 | thebigdog | GNOME (53%) |
| 17:07.55 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:07.55 | thebigdog | KDE (30%) |
| 17:08.18 | thebigdog | now this shocked me |
| 17:08.19 | thebigdog | Favorite Audio Player |
| 17:08.19 | thebigdog | Amarok (36%) |
| 17:08.19 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:08.19 | thebigdog | Rhythmbox (18%) |
| 17:08.20 | thebigdog | XMMS (12%) |
| 17:08.23 | kingsol | thebigdog: darn it... from the dreamhost vps page "You don't get root access. Remember, it works just like our regular hosting." |
| 17:08.23 | thebigdog | amarok is kde |
| 17:08.35 | thebigdog | why do you need root? |
| 17:08.50 | thebigdog | beandog, oh so sorry: Favorite Media Player |
| 17:08.51 | thebigdog | VLC (34%) |
| 17:08.51 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:08.51 | thebigdog | MPlayer (33%) |
| 17:09.09 | thebigdog | and yes - Favorite Text Editor |
| 17:09.09 | thebigdog | vi (36%) |
| 17:09.09 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:09.09 | thebigdog | gedit (19%) |
| 17:09.09 | thebigdog | Kate (11%) |
| 17:09.10 | kingsol | thebigdog: I like root. |
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| 17:09.26 | thebigdog | i am sorely disappointed here - Favorite Version Control System |
| 17:09.26 | thebigdog | Subversion (47%) |
| 17:09.26 | thebigdog | Honorable Mention |
| 17:09.26 | thebigdog | CVS (16%) |
| 17:09.26 | thebigdog | git (15%) |
| 17:09.31 | thebigdog | git needs to be like 50% |
| 17:09.52 | kingsol | thebigdog: and I will want to install packages, etc |
| 17:10.10 | thebigdog | oh |
| 17:10.32 | utahcon | kingsol: linode... you are root |
| 17:10.37 | macnewbold | thebigdog: thanks for sharing, these are entertaining |
| 17:10.54 | macnewbold | but you forgot emacs under text editor. it was at 32%. |
| 17:11.25 | kingsol | utahcon: nice, there pricing is not too bad... can they scale with increase usage? |
| 17:12.23 | kingsol | there / their |
| 17:12.36 | utahcon | kingsol: AFAIK yes |
| 17:12.58 | utahcon | they are really nice folks... drop 'em a line, call them... they are cool |
| 17:13.07 | kingsol | thx for the heads up |
| 17:13.56 | kingsol | utahcon: where are you these days? |
| 17:14.16 | utahcon | kingsol: Working for SOS Staffing in SLC> |
| 17:14.19 | utahcon | Living in Holladay. |
| 17:14.31 | kingsol | miss the old ostk days? |
| 17:14.37 | utahcon | kingsol: yes/no |
| 17:14.52 | utahcon | miss the people... not the management |
| 17:16.56 | cro | kingsol: Check out Slicehost if you are looking for a VPS |
| 17:17.17 | kingsol | thx cro |
| 17:17.48 | kingsol | so far rackspace is the cheapest (with full acces) and "cloud" service... $11/mo smallest plan... am I missing something? |
| 17:17.53 | cro | I have 5 slices with them now. They are a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rackspace now. Like them alot. |
| 17:18.00 | beandog | kingsol, really? |
| 17:18.02 | beandog | wheres that one |
| 17:18.25 | kingsol | must be from an acquisition: http://www.mosso.com/cloudservers.jsp |
| 17:18.36 | kingsol | $0.015 / hr |
| 17:18.47 | fungus | $11/mo wow, that is cheap. It costs me almost that for power alone for my server at home. |
| 17:20.20 | cro | kingsol: Does that include bandwidth? |
| 17:20.29 | utahcon | nope |
| 17:20.37 | kingsol | I'll ask ... on chat with them now |
| 17:20.46 | utahcon | band is 0.08/gb in and 0.22/gb out |
| 17:20.57 | kingsol | lame |
| 17:21.00 | kingsol | stupid rackspace |
| 17:21.03 | kingsol | ha ha |
| 17:21.05 | tierra | weird pricing for bandwidth |
| 17:21.09 | *** part/#uphpu beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 17:21.12 | utahcon | tierra: agreed |
| 17:21.20 | utahcon | Amazon's is the same way |
| 17:21.24 | utahcon | slightly better numbers though |
| 17:21.33 | utahcon | but they start at $74/month for the server. |
| 17:21.41 | cro | Yeah, that's $110/month for 500 GB BW outbound only |
| 17:21.50 | kingsol | not cheap |
| 17:22.06 | thebigdog | macnewbold, emacs did not make the cut this year |
| 17:22.16 | kingsol | amazon is less then that I think (isn't that what utah con just said) |
| 17:22.27 | utahcon | kingsol: yeah I think I did |
| 17:22.30 | kingsol | ha ha |
| 17:22.33 | mindjuju | rackspace has REALLY good service though |
| 17:22.52 | utahcon | kingsol: is this for a profittable project? |
| 17:22.55 | utahcon | or for fun? |
| 17:23.12 | mindjuju | we had a machine go down for a little while, it was still in dev, but they gave us couple months credit for the outage |
| 17:23.39 | tierra | I have friends that have been on rackspace which I've only known to have serious issues with network uptime/performance |
| 17:24.11 | mindjuju | really? |
| 17:24.34 | mindjuju | i've sinced moved everything over to xmission, but we used them when we started doing multimedia about 2 yrs ago |
| 17:24.39 | utahcon | mindjuju: I am with tierra only heard bad ... but then the guy who was on their service wasn't very smart either. |
| 17:24.52 | mindjuju | no troubles then, though sounds like they went down |
| 17:25.19 | kingsol | utahcon: both |
| 17:27.01 | utahcon | I have utahcon.com on linode... as well as some other sites. It has been really nice. They basically give you the minimum to get up and running, then you are left to do what you want how you want. |
| 17:27.05 | utahcon | Like VPS should be. |
| 17:27.13 | utahcon | Switching to a bigger account is not hard. |
| 17:27.22 | utahcon | They don't hard lock you to the specs either. |
| 17:27.43 | utahcon | No set up fees, pay month-to-month, 7 day money back guarantee |
| 17:27.55 | unum | I've also been happy with linode |
| 17:28.05 | utahcon | unum is who referred me... |
| 17:28.07 | utahcon | sorta |
| 17:28.09 | unum | it's only $20 a month andthey prorate you |
| 17:28.18 | unum | utahcon: so you've been happy with it? |
| 17:28.24 | utahcon | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:28.36 | utahcon | Figuring out their DNS took a minute, but it was a quick setup. |
| 17:29.09 | utahcon | and the $19.95 is a great price for the small package... |
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| 17:33.21 | tierra | the biggest bonus to linode I've noticed really is that the owner is so ridiculously experienced, not just with network management, but also with so much of the internals of linux... stuff stays up and running smoothly, and in the rare cases when there's problems, they are on top of it immediately and have it resolved extremely fast |
| 17:33.52 | tierra | one of my linodes (I have two) currently has an uptime of 456 days |
| 17:34.26 | *** join/#uphpu romanovic (n=romanovi@67.182.248.31) |
| 17:37.28 | utahcon | wow |
| 17:37.33 | utahcon | that is three years... |
| 17:37.35 | utahcon | dang |
| 17:37.51 | utahcon | I have never had a machine... virtual or otherwise stay up that long |
| 17:38.29 | dataw0lf | 245 days but mine was rebooted because of Dallas problems. |
| 17:38.52 | herlo | utahcon: I would argue that macnewbold's record isn't necessarily something to brag about. It essentially means he's not updated his kernel in that time, making it vulnerable to kernel exploits and other root attacks via the kernel modules. |
| 17:39.03 | macnewbold | it's not running linux |
| 17:39.13 | herlo | macnewbold: that doesn't matter |
| 17:39.20 | herlo | unless you can update the kernel live |
| 17:39.25 | macnewbold | it does if it is running freebsd |
| 17:39.28 | utahcon | that would be cool |
| 17:39.46 | macnewbold | there's not a kernel exploit that I know of for the version I'm running |
| 17:39.46 | herlo | macnewbold: how so? It's still lacking updates unless you can update all the items live and not reboot... |
| 17:39.52 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: what version? |
| 17:39.54 | herlo | macnewbold: that you know of, that's the point |
| 17:40.01 | utahcon | kingsol: with Linode you can add memory, storage, transfer, and IPs as needed. |
| 17:40.09 | macnewbold | utahcon: there is a thing called the "two-kernel monty" that you can do if you're brave |
| 17:40.17 | macnewbold | you can go from one kernel to another without rebooting |
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| 17:40.44 | utahcon | macnewbold: that sounds like crazy sailor talk |
| 17:40.45 | dataw0lf | there's numerous exploits for FreeBSD 7 |
| 17:40.47 | herlo | macnewbold: is that something you can do in freebsd? That's cool. there's also ksplice (still experimental imo) for Linux nowadays... |
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| 18:01.04 | fungus | herlo: choosing not to update a kernel is often not a problem when the update doesn't address any security problems. |
| 18:01.44 | fungus | http://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories.html |
| 18:02.24 | fungus | Most issues are in userland, and most kernel issues may not necessarily apply to macnewbold's situation. |
| 18:09.31 | herlo | fungus: with that, I agree. but I don't necessarily agree that there aren't any exploits of the freebsd kernel. Rather there are no known exploits |
| 18:10.49 | fungus | So, how would updating a kernel fix any unknown exploits. |
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| 18:11.42 | fungus | Not updating a FreeBSD kernel for 3 years does automatically mean it has a security hole and needs to be updated. |
| 18:12.18 | herlo | fungus: so what you are saying is that there aren't any known exploits over the past three years? |
| 18:13.12 | fungus | I am saying that in macnewbold's case, it is quite likely that there are no known exploits to the kernel he is using with the features that he has enabled. |
| 18:13.16 | herlo | that's amazing. But you do have a good point. I hadn't thought about how updating a kernel would affect the ability to close exploits... |
| 18:13.51 | fungus | If you click on that security advisory page, you will see that it isn't very long considering how far back it goes. |
| 18:14.21 | herlo | however, I would argue that developers are looking to close holes all the time. In that case, I think it's prudent to move to the next kernel regularly. |
| 18:14.41 | herlo | but it needs to be balanced with stability of hte servers and mitigating risk |
| 18:14.49 | fungus | Not true. If there is a security hole patched, it will have a security advisory |
| 18:15.13 | fungus | FreeBSD has a very different culture. |
| 18:15.14 | herlo | What's not true? Developers don't make improvements on security regularly? |
| 18:15.38 | fungus | Every hole found and/or patched is advertised |
| 18:15.40 | herlo | I agree that a security advisory will be released on a known exploit. |
| 18:15.52 | herlo | or security risk, etc.. |
| 18:15.57 | herlo | that's not my argument at all. |
| 18:16.13 | herlo | 12:14 <+herlo> however, I would argue that developers are looking to close holes all the time. |
| 18:16.40 | fungus | Agreed, they *are* looking. |
| 18:17.01 | fungus | But that doesn't mean they found any that affect macnewbold |
| 18:17.26 | fungus | For instance, a security hole in ICMP6, he probably doesn't have IPv6 enabled at all. |
| 18:17.35 | fungus | No need to update for him. |
| 18:17.54 | herlo | I guess the thing is something like selinux (yes I know he's a bsd nerd) would be a kernel component that could improve the system immensely. Yet it's not a security advisory and with the logic you just gave, there would be no reason to update to it... |
| 18:18.43 | macnewbold | I agree with fungus, for the record :-D |
| 18:19.09 | herlo | macnewbold: you would :) |
| 18:19.25 | herlo | I guess I don't see the difference, and how not updating is better than updating. |
| 18:20.27 | macnewbold | well, for example, take uptime: not updating my kernel in 3+ years has meant much better uptime :-D |
| 18:20.35 | macnewbold | that's a benefit |
| 18:20.39 | herlo | heh, how? |
| 18:20.42 | herlo | bragging rights? |
| 18:21.38 | fungus | I didn't say that not updating *is* better than updating. |
| 18:22.18 | fungus | FreeBSD users have a long tradition of "not updating" to keep things stable. Think LTS * 3 |
| 18:23.34 | herlo | yeah, and I think I argue against that mentality. I don't think uptime is better than security. But stability *is* important. However, LTS * 3 == 6 years? Not really all that long. However, LTS and other Linux distros do updates (mostly security) to the kernel components. This generally implies downtime. |
| 18:23.42 | fungus | My point is just: that not updating is not necessarily bad, if the admin is paying attention to security advisories. |
| 18:24.19 | herlo | maybe. |
| 18:24.47 | fungus | It's not just about uptime, it's about compatibility, paranoia of breakage, etc |
| 18:25.10 | fungus | Compare to RHEL, how many RHEL 3 and 4 servers are still running |
| 18:25.44 | fungus | "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" :P |
| 18:26.06 | macnewbold | classic quote |
| 18:26.10 | macnewbold | ~seen josephscott |
| 18:26.11 | ibot | josephscott is currently on #uphpu (3h 33m 40s), last said: 'also if you find places where it would be really helpful to have a filter/action hook and there isn't one then file a ticket with a patch at http://core.trac.wordpress.org/'. |
| 18:26.25 | fungus | Personally I don't always agree with that mentality, but it does have it's place, and it isn't *wrong* |
| 18:26.57 | macnewbold | another dumb wp-mu question josephscott: can I enable/disable themes on a per-blog basis? I.e. set up 6 blogs but make it so blog 2 can't use blog 1's personal theme? |
| 18:28.58 | herlo | fungus: I don't think I said it was wrong. I just don't agree with that mentality. Of course, I think I'm coming from a Linux background where things are fast and loose all the time. |
| 18:29.45 | herlo | which is probably why I feel that way. |
| 18:29.50 | fungus | Right, I understand. I just felt the need to explain/defend the FreeBSD culture, because I lived it so long. |
| 18:30.29 | herlo | well, I know that they are the *secure* unix :) so that stands for something |
| 18:30.46 | unum | we had a redhat 3 server running until recently |
| 18:30.54 | unum | I think a hardware failure took it out |
| 18:30.56 | herlo | macnewbold: are you using wp-mu? |
| 18:31.05 | unum | actually we had two and upgrade the other when the one failed |
| 18:31.52 | herlo | macnewbold: let me check my wp-mu install, I think I've got something like that |
| 18:35.31 | josephscott | macnewbold: I know that it's possible, not sure if that's something that WPMU does out of the box though |
| 18:36.43 | josephscott | fungus: I had freebsd boxes that ran for years between reboots. This was especially true when the box had a specific purpose, everything else firewalled off, and ran without problems |
| 18:40.05 | josephscott | macnewbold: http://mu.wordpress.org/forums/topic.php?id=8658#post-51591 |
| 18:40.09 | herlo | macnewbold: macnewbold yeah, josephscott is correct, there is only a way to enable/disable a particular theme overall. Maybe there's a plugin |
| 18:41.02 | herlo | oh, looky there :) |
| 18:41.11 | josephscott | http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPressMU |
| 18:41.17 | josephscott | "Individual themes can be made available to all blogs or just to specific ones. " |
| 18:41.26 | josephscott | so it's in there :-) |
| 18:41.44 | herlo | that's neat! |
| 18:41.57 | josephscott | I won't setup WPMU from scratch a lot so I usually need to go back and look these sorts of things up |
| 18:42.08 | josephscott | s/won't/don't/ |
| 18:49.39 | mgeary | hey folks, i've been asked to give an introduction to mysql to a group of developers |
| 18:50.25 | *** part/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130) |
| 18:59.57 | mgeary | they've got DB experience, but not MySQL |
| 19:00.26 | mgeary | i've got an agenda of sorts, but shout out a few things you wish you'd known when you first got started, and/or some things you've been glad you know about MySQL |
| 19:00.36 | mgeary | (and no cheap shots about how you wish you'd migrated to Postgres earlier) |
| 19:01.52 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130) |
| 19:01.52 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 19:05.29 | dataw0lf | welp, you headed me off at the pass, mgeary. |
| 19:05.37 | mgeary | heheheh |
| 19:05.57 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 19:05.58 | mgeary | hey, i actually tried to convince these guys to go postgres, even though i'm a postgres novice |
| 19:06.03 | mgeary | but no dice |
| 19:07.11 | dataw0lf | :\ |
| 19:08.55 | kingsol | late reply, but thank you all for the VPS feedback |
| 19:09.55 | SunSparc | What? I missed VPS feedback? |
| 19:12.03 | kingsol | oh yeah... intense VPS feedback |
| 19:12.16 | SunSparc | Did you pick something yet? |
| 19:13.15 | SunSparc | kingsol: Did you get any feedback from brasto? |
| 19:14.44 | brasto | 'huh?' |
| 19:15.44 | mgeary | heya, brasto |
| 19:15.51 | brasto | 'sup |
| 19:15.52 | mgeary | you guys gonna be able to go to dinnyland? |
| 19:16.21 | brasto | we were going to go today, but Julie started having some seizures over last weekend and we decided we'd better wait |
| 19:16.40 | brasto | but some of my friends are still planning on sending us there |
| 19:16.52 | mgeary | cool beans |
| 19:16.55 | SunSparc | That is really cool |
| 19:17.02 | brasto | yea |
| 19:17.24 | brasto | friends that I have not seen in 18 years |
| 19:17.30 | SunSparc | brasto: I hear kingsol was getting VPS feedback but did not get any feedback from us. |
| 19:17.41 | mgeary | if at all possible, go during the week. A lot more people there on Saturday than other days |
| 19:17.48 | SunSparc | brasto: Those are pretty good friends. |
| 19:18.12 | SunSparc | Very true. We did Tuesday-Thursday and it was decent. |
| 19:21.43 | brasto | thanks for the tips, I'll look into going on those days |
| 19:22.13 | brasto | it seems I sent someone some info about vps's but i don't know if it was kingsol |
| 19:22.46 | brasto | brb, helping wife walk back to her hospital bed (hospice has one in our home). |
| 19:26.10 | mgeary | been there, done that :/ |
| 19:28.38 | brasto | ~brastotack kingsol |
| 19:28.39 | ibot | ACTION lectures kingsol on properly designed databases, normalization, writing quality code with comments, and active-voice writing until kingsol can't take anymore and goes berserk. |
| 19:29.06 | *** join/#uphpu xtrementl (n=erik@vyatta.codegreene.com) |
| 19:31.17 | mgeary | anyone here use MySQL Workbench on *nix ? |
| 19:31.31 | mgeary | and/or do you have any other GUI mysql tools you like? |
| 19:34.18 | fungus | nope, haven't yet found one better than phpMyAdmin |
| 19:34.39 | mgeary | yeah, i agree |
| 19:34.52 | mgeary | but if you're not already running a webserver on your machine, that's a hassle |
| 19:35.00 | fungus | Once I played with a tool called NaviCat (i think), pretty cool, but Windows only. |
| 19:36.02 | mgeary | fungus: what measures would you recommend to someone who was worried about vulnerabilities with phpmyadmin? I recommended it to this group and they felt like they'd heard it wasn't secure |
| 19:36.13 | mgeary | i told them to just run it on an internal IP |
| 19:36.22 | *** join/#uphpu cro_ (n=cro@166-70-222-105.ip.xmission.com) |
| 19:36.23 | mgeary | and use session-based auth |
| 19:37.17 | mgeary | one thing i sometimes do is set up a virtual host like db.domain.com that runs phpmyadmin, but i don't make a public DNS entry for it, i just modify my hosts file. That seems like an easy way to hide your db interface from snoopers |
| 19:37.29 | fungus | only on internal network, session or http auth, no config auth, use SSL if possible |
| 19:38.00 | fungus | if it's public it's bad |
| 19:38.11 | fungus | at least add some firewall rules to limit who can connect. |
| 19:38.58 | unum | you can run it on the local interface and use a proxy |
| 19:39.02 | unum | but that's a lot more work |
| 19:39.10 | mgeary | well |
| 19:39.11 | fungus | good idea unum! |
| 19:39.19 | mgeary | you can just run it locally and point it to a remote machine |
| 19:39.32 | mgeary | no proxy needed |
| 19:39.53 | mgeary | *remote db server |
| 19:39.56 | fungus | That works too, but the mysql connection is unencrypted (by default) |
| 19:40.13 | fungus | The MySQL security is important too |
| 19:40.21 | fungus | probably more so. |
| 19:40.34 | mgeary | you mean limiting mysql user privs? |
| 19:40.43 | mgeary | or are you talking about encrypting the data transmissions? |
| 19:40.48 | fungus | and network connection by firewall |
| 19:40.55 | fungus | and SSL if possible |
| 19:41.09 | fungus | though, mysql ssl is a bit of a pain |
| 19:41.33 | fungus | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/secure-connections.html |
| 19:48.10 | DexterTheDragon | fungus: NaviCat has a linux version |
| 19:51.01 | SunSparc | I have Navicat on my Mac. I don't really use it though. |
| 19:53.28 | fungus | really? hrm. I'll take a look |
| 19:53.50 | SunSparc | I do most stuff from the cli. |
| 19:54.13 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:55.41 | mgeary | and memorizing db-specific ddl syntax for alter table, add index, etc. is a pain |
| 19:55.42 | brasto | ~give mgeary some pretty colors |
| 19:55.43 | ibot | ACTION gives some pretty colors to mgeary |
| 19:56.24 | SunSparc | mgeary: this is true |
| 19:56.40 | brasto | lol |
| 20:00.05 | fungus | eww, they made NaviCat work through Wine |
| 20:00.08 | *** join/#uphpu cro (n=cro@166-70-222-105.ip.xmission.com) |
| 20:00.39 | DexterTheDragon | really? |
| 20:00.51 | fungus | yup |
| 20:01.18 | fungus | it works pretty well, and comes bundled with the wine libs and such, so it's still pretty easy. |
| 20:01.36 | fungus | just seems like cheating to me. |
| 20:05.47 | mgeary | ~cheat fungus |
| 20:06.34 | fungus | It's ok if *I* cheat, just not anybody else. |
| 20:09.19 | herlo | okay, how do I do a query in MySQL for values that are NOT NULL; |
| 20:09.47 | herlo | they are string values, I've tried != ""; and is NOT NULL; and mysql engine complains.. |
| 20:09.57 | herlo | Looking around on the mysql website hasn't lead to anything useful... |
| 20:10.06 | thebigdog | what is the error msg? |
| 20:10.13 | DexterTheDragon | "field IS NOT NULL" |
| 20:10.13 | mgeary | you can use ISNULL() |
| 20:12.01 | herlo | thebigdog: error in my sql |
| 20:12.08 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: tried that one |
| 20:12.30 | mgeary | try "where ! ISNULL(sometable.somefield)" |
| 20:12.33 | DexterTheDragon | well whats the error message |
| 20:12.42 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: huh? |
| 20:12.45 | mgeary | but IS NOT NULL *should* work.... |
| 20:12.46 | herlo | mgeary: k |
| 20:13.30 | herlo | http://fpaste.org/paste/11294 |
| 20:13.35 | herlo | none of that seems to be working... |
| 20:13.42 | herlo | it's a really simple select |
| 20:13.50 | mgeary | give us your whole sql statement |
| 20:13.56 | herlo | mgeary: pasted above |
| 20:13.57 | fungus | lol |
| 20:14.00 | mgeary | it might be right before your where |
| 20:14.01 | fungus | no FROM |
| 20:14.03 | DexterTheDragon | you have no FROM |
| 20:14.09 | herlo | lol |
| 20:14.09 | mgeary | hahahaha |
| 20:14.12 | herlo | I do that a lot! |
| 20:14.14 | mgeary | ~taunt herlo |
| 20:14.14 | ibot | ACTION taunts herlo a second time |
| 20:14.36 | herlo | w00t! it all works :) |
| 20:15.21 | fungus | your key to knowing where the problem is: near 'where order... |
| 20:15.38 | SunSparc | So, Silverlight... worth installing? |
| 20:16.08 | fungus | nope |
| 20:16.29 | SunSparc | That was my thinking. |
| 20:16.45 | SunSparc | A NASA page wants to install it as a plugin. |
| 20:18.59 | mgeary | ~sellout NASA |
| 20:19.07 | SunSparc | No kidding |
| 20:19.25 | mgeary | did you know M$ just throws money at various companies to do things like that? |
| 20:19.45 | SunSparc | Good way to market crap |
| 20:19.54 | SunSparc | Here have it for free!! |
| 20:20.11 | mgeary | i read a blog post once from an ISP owner once. Said M$ had offered him all kinds of money to have Windows be their "default" server option |
| 20:20.12 | mindjuju | yeah, there is a page where if you have silverlight, you can see like 20yrs of a "gentlemen's mag" with the logo of a rabbit |
| 20:20.21 | mindjuju | talk about hilarious |
| 20:20.21 | SunSparc | We know it is crap, but for free, it is worth it! |
| 20:20.43 | mindjuju | and then there was the olympics fiasco and NBC switching back over to flash |
| 20:21.04 | mindjuju | you got to feel sorry for M$ some times, |
| 20:21.15 | DexterTheDragon | no you don't |
| 20:21.35 | mindjuju | DtD, just int he since that they try so hard, but only deliver so little |
| 20:21.37 | SunSparc | You have to feel sorry for people that feel they need to work there. |
| 20:21.57 | mindjuju | it's like macnewbold says |
| 20:22.12 | mindjuju | The day MS stops sucking is the day they build vaccuums |
| 20:22.47 | mindjuju | on the other hand, i'm writting an blog on Ubuntu 9.04 |
| 20:22.52 | mindjuju | that's top! |
| 20:24.26 | SunSparc | LOL |
| 20:25.15 | SunSparc | Although, if I have said it once, I have said it a million times, the only quality product that Microsoft makes is Mice. |
| 20:25.37 | SunSparc | They figured that product out. |
| 20:25.44 | SunSparc | bingo |
| 20:25.46 | mindjuju | they prolly outsource |
| 20:25.50 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:25.54 | SunSparc | Prolly |
| 20:26.20 | DexterTheDragon | Microsoft should focus on the hardware business |
| 20:26.42 | mindjuju | ehhh..., no |
| 20:26.53 | mindjuju | can you imagine an MS switch? |
| 20:26.55 | mindjuju | or router? |
| 20:27.03 | mindjuju | MS video cards? |
| 20:27.07 | SunSparc | Well, I dunno, they are giving people an option to run from. |
| 20:27.08 | mindjuju | MS RAM? |
| 20:27.29 | itimber | anyone have a favorite T-Mobile cell phone? |
| 20:27.31 | DexterTheDragon | I was thinking just keyboards, mice, the xbox |
| 20:27.38 | mindjuju | oh, ah |
| 20:32.40 | dataw0lf | whooooo star trek release party tonight |
| 20:32.46 | dataw0lf | free alcohol, food, and movie |
| 20:32.53 | herlo | dataw0lf: where? |
| 20:33.01 | herlo | dataw0lf: I'm guessing Reno, which sucks |
| 20:33.05 | herlo | for me anyway |
| 20:33.11 | dataw0lf | yea, Reno. |
| 20:33.18 | dataw0lf | me and Brandon got press passes |
| 20:33.50 | dataw0lf | I'm stoked, the movie is supposed to be fantastic. |
| 20:36.12 | herlo | dataw0lf: I'm going tonight to the movie |
| 20:36.16 | herlo | I'm excited |
| 20:37.12 | fungus | I'm going tomorrow morning, but compared to "free alcohol, food, and movie" it's a kind of let down. |
| 20:37.20 | mgeary | well, *i'm* going to Father's & Son's tomorrow & Saturday |
| 20:37.47 | mgeary | at my old friends, the Popes. This is their place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2-od4n5Xl0 |
| 20:37.50 | fungus | at least my movie is free, after the vendor presentation anyway. |
| 20:41.26 | mindjuju | k, that's just craziness mgeary |
| 20:43.47 | mgeary | yeah, it's wicked fun, but they've dismantled it, i believe. I think someone got hurt a year or two ago. not badly, but, you know |
| 20:43.58 | dataw0lf | fungus: yea, right after work, we go to the El Dorado where we have a convention room and we're going to watch some DS9 and TNG eps, and a movie (probably II) |
| 20:44.16 | fungus | nice! |
| 20:44.24 | dataw0lf | fully catered by the casino nom nom |
| 20:44.29 | dataw0lf | open bar slurp slurp |
| 20:44.35 | dataw0lf | (What's the liquid equivalent of nom?) |
| 20:45.16 | fungus | hmm, suddenly I'm craving a cosmo |
| 20:45.21 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (n=sparky@173.8.91.177) |
| 20:45.26 | xtrementl | you're always craving one |
| 20:45.41 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v SunSparc] by ChanServ |
| 20:46.01 | fungus | lol, not quite |
| 20:46.09 | xtrementl | haha well at least at applebees |
| 20:46.21 | xtrementl | they keep knives away from you at work right? |
| 20:46.26 | fungus | well, yeah, there is that too. |
| 20:53.34 | thebigdog | so when we are naming this channel codegreene? |
| 20:53.50 | thebigdog | or when do i get hired so i can feel good about myself? |
| 20:54.51 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=olsonl@216.112.118.2) |
| 20:54.51 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 21:05.02 | SunSparc | ~meow |
| 21:05.03 | ibot | jbot: woem |
| 21:29.44 | fungus | ~woem |
| 21:29.45 | ibot | ibot: meow |
| 21:38.42 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:38.45 | SunSparc | ~woof |
| 21:38.45 | ibot | from memory, woof is the sound a dog makes. |
| 21:40.34 | *** join/#uphpu cro (n=cro@166-70-222-105.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:43.28 | redroy | Hey everyone... dumb question, I've noticed in tutorials that some declare all variables used in a class like 'var $name' prior to using it like '$this->name' and some just jump to '$this->name' in the constructor or something... is there a right or wrong way of doing this? |
| 21:43.29 | SunSparc | Are you talking about class variables or method variables? |
| 21:43.42 | redroy | Class variables |
| 21:44.22 | SunSparc | Class variables are always defined as 'var $name;' and then access in methods with $this-> |
| 21:45.03 | SunSparc | The $this indicates the current class instance. |
| 21:45.37 | SunSparc | Is that your question? Or am I just make the waters muddy. |
| 21:45.44 | redroy | cool... so having the variables declared in the constructor would be incorrect then? |
| 21:46.07 | SunSparc | Technically the constructor is a method. |
| 21:46.53 | redroy | That makes sense :) Thanks sunsparc |
| 21:47.05 | SunSparc | So if they are defining class variable in the constructor they will need the $this, but they should be at least prototyped in the class. |
| 21:47.28 | SunSparc | You are welcome3 |
| 22:02.07 | fungus | redroy: best practices is to declare them with the "var" statement. A lot of programmers just get lazy and skip declaration and let PHP handle it automatically. |
| 22:02.49 | redroy | very cool, thanks a lot guys |
| 22:11.28 | SunSparc | auto magic is handy, but dirty |
| 22:11.39 | SunSparc | Don't give in |
| 22:11.40 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:16.32 | SunSparc | ~wolf brasto |
| 22:17.28 | xtrementl | @redroy: also it depends on how the class variables are being used. Sometimes you need to dynamically allocate class variables; hence you'd use the constructor or another method to allocate them. |
| 22:18.47 | redroy | ah, right |
| 22:21.31 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=David@c-67-172-225-101.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:21.31 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 22:35.19 | itimber | I'm out guys.... catch ya'll later |
| 22:37.46 | herlo | xcrementl: you are the sh*t! |
| 22:37.55 | herlo | xtrementl: ^^ :-D |
| 22:38.06 | xtrementl | damn right |
| 22:38.12 | herlo | lol |
| 22:38.44 | SunSparc | Don't you mean, "you are the shazbot!" |
| 22:39.31 | herlo | nah |
| 22:39.41 | herlo | SunSparc: I renicked him to xcrementl :) |
| 22:39.43 | xtrementl | euphemisms don't have the same sound to them |
| 22:39.59 | SunSparc | nanoo naoo |
| 22:58.53 | *** part/#uphpu xtrementl (n=erik@vyatta.codegreene.com) |
| 23:00.10 | undertakingyou | so, unlink() deletes a file? |
| 23:01.34 | mindjuju | undertakingyou -- yes -- http://us.php.net/function.unlink |
| 23:01.54 | undertakingyou | Will it delete the file even if it is in use? |
| 23:02.29 | undertakingyou | So person A is looking at a webpage with image1 and person 2 runs function unlink(image1); |
| 23:02.49 | josephscott | it's up to your operating system at that point |
| 23:04.45 | undertakingyou | hmmm . . . |
| 23:05.27 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+vvv tristanbob_ eggyknap Heartsbane] by macnewbold |
| 23:05.45 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+vvv burnin Dezertol optikal] by macnewbold |
| 23:05.52 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+vvv romanovic tierra unum] by macnewbold |
| 23:09.10 | fungus | undertakingyou: on Linux, it unlink removes the file from directory listings but doesn't free up disk space until the file is closed. |
| 23:18.56 | SunSparc | Night all |
| 23:30.54 | Dezertol | q |
| 23:31.01 | Dezertol | opps ;-) |
| 23:31.04 | Dezertol | \quite |
| 23:31.12 | mindjuju | try \quit |
| 23:31.14 | Dezertol | ugh.. it's been a long day |
| 23:31.46 | Dezertol | \quit |
| 23:31.49 | Dezertol | lol |
| 23:31.52 | Dezertol | that didn't work either |
| 23:45.11 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=clints@fedora/herlo) |
| 23:45.11 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 23:45.36 | herlo | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:45.48 | herlo | fracking idiot I am, accidentally did it myself |
| 23:49.25 | dataw0lf | hahahahaha |
| 23:50.32 | herlo | ~lart dataw0lf |
| 23:50.32 | ibot | takes out dataw0lf with the trash |