IRC log for #uphpu on 20090305

00:01.57SunSparcNight all!!
00:14.39DexterTheDragonlater irc tweeps
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13:42.33itimbersup guys
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14:24.38_carmonymornin itimber
14:24.47_carmonyyou really are workin earlier mornings
14:40.34itimberfo sho
14:40.39itimberwas in around 5:30
14:40.44itimberjust didn't launch
14:47.26itimbers/launch/launch IRC/
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15:26.23_carmonybrb, need to reboot
15:42.45croanyone having trouble reaching lots of sites this morning?
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16:03.19carmonylol, always fun reading your RSS reader and seeing pictures of people you know. Joseph Scott sighting. :P http://ma.tt/2009/02/wordcamp-denver/mcm_0257-2/
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16:04.30carmonyjosephscott, how was WordCamp Denver?
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16:07.15josephscottcarmony: good, wireless got crushed though
16:07.51carmonywhat do you mean?
16:08.58josephscottthe location said they had wireless internet access that could handle a few hundred people
16:09.09josephscottthat turned out not to be the case :-(
16:09.23carmonyah
16:09.25carmonyno good
16:10.01josephscottcombined with no cell coverage made for poor connectivity
16:10.21josephscottfolks were good though, interesting talks, good audience
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16:12.33carmonyone of these days I'll make it out to a word camp :P
16:14.15utahconcarmony: you should, they are pretty neat.
16:14.43utahconI know it is early, but we need to make sure to plan WordCamp Utah early again, and invite Matt back :D
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16:25.43carmonywho was in charge of WordCamp Utah last year?
16:26.21utahconI have no idea really.
16:26.32utahconI think Clint Savage.
16:26.43utahconer... herlo
16:27.17SunSparcUh oh, you used his real name!  Now his cover is blown!
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16:27.42utahcondangit!
16:27.46mindjujuno no, WordCamp was launched by none other than our very own JosephScott
16:27.47utahconI just killed herlo
16:28.03mindjujuwho is an Automattic employee, and all around-good guy
16:28.13SunSparc~console utahcon
16:28.14jbotACTION gives utahcon the consolation moose
16:28.18utahconall around?
16:28.26utahconI don't know about that...
16:28.32utahconthere was that one angle
16:30.56josephscottssshhh, we don't talk about that side
16:32.02utahconnoted
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16:40.29whiteingeI have a bid I'd like to run past a few local web dev firms. I'm only familiar with Code Greene. Anyone have any other local favorites?
16:40.54mgeary(The Treeline Group)
16:44.23_psychic_(Rain Interactive)
16:46.30whiteingeExcellent. Thanks. Keep 'em coming.
16:47.39whiteingeOh, I forgot to specify LAMP devs are preferred. Do The Treeline Group and Rain Interactive do LAMP?
16:47.49whiteingemgeary, _psychic_  ^^
16:47.55_psychic_yup
16:47.58_psychic_most people here do
16:48.28whiteinge:)
16:48.59utahconwhiteinge: what timeline are you looking at?
16:49.36_psychic_yesterday, I'm guessing ;)
16:49.53utahconI ask cause I would throw my hat in the ring, but I am booked through April :(
16:49.54mgearywhiteinge: of course
16:50.33whiteingeunfortunately short-ish. USU project; trying to quickly make up for an inter-departmental botched job before the grant money is lost. :(
16:51.07_psychic_using existing code, or starting over?
16:51.48whiteingepreferably mostly drop-in OSS packages with a bit of customization.
16:52.09whiteingewiki & forums
16:52.19whiteinge+ design work
16:53.23mgearygreat film
16:53.31herlo~lart mgeary
16:53.31jbotcalls mgeary on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home
16:53.38mgearypsh
16:53.58herlowhiteinge: http://web.twelvehorses.com/ <-- this one is real
16:54.07whiteingeherlo: they have a local office, but are they a local company?
16:54.24herloyes, they are
16:54.27herloI know the owner
16:54.31herloSteve Spencer
16:54.46whiteingecool
16:55.20herlowell, I think he's the VP actually, but okay
16:55.33herloand they do have their corp offices in Reno, but I just learned that
16:56.01herlohe's the CTO :)
16:56.07herlohttp://web.twelvehorses.com/company/team/
16:58.17SunSparchttp://www.urbandictionary.com/zoom.php?imageid=20073
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16:59.56utahconnice
17:13.31dataw0lftwelve horses?  I won't enunciate my true feelings for them.
17:14.06mgearyi think you just did
17:15.16utahcontyping is deceiving, he may have slurred his true feelings.
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17:30.31utahconhttp://ma.tt/2009/02/wordcamp-denver/mcm_0190/
17:30.57utahconjosephscott who was rolling the Rolls Royce in Denver?
17:31.29josephscotthehe, yeah, there was four of us in the car plus the driver
17:31.53utahconjust a cab/limo? Was it requested?
17:34.19josephscottmatt was staying at the ritz carlton (or something like that), they had it available for short trips for folks staying there
17:35.17carmonylol
17:35.17carmonywow
17:36.38josephscottlikely the most expensive car I've ever been in :-)
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17:38.40utahconthat is very cool.
17:44.32SunSparccarmony: nice :)
17:45.31carmonydaddy was NOT happy, but he didn't get mad at me :P
17:46.21SunSparcGood daddy.
17:46.44DexterTheDragonalthough he did take it out of his allowance
17:46.58josephscottgodaddy?
17:48.49mgearyi wouldn't host with godaddy. I've got 330 domains with them, but we host them all
17:49.11carmony330? wow
17:49.13carmonythats a lot
17:49.44mgearyyeah
17:52.01josephscottI know a few folks that buy domains any time an idea for one pops into their head
17:52.30mgearynah, these are all client sites
17:52.33carmonyI do that
17:52.38DexterTheDragonbloody domain squatters
17:52.39carmonybut I have about 30 domains
17:53.46unummy domains are with godaddy and hosted at linode
17:53.53unumI want to move all my domains to xmission
17:54.00unumonce I get utopia I plan to do that
17:54.35carmonylol, bootstrapping PHP is so much fun! .... :P
18:04.55*** mode/#UPHPU [+v Lone_Wanderer] by ChanServ
18:05.37Lone_WandererHrmm.
18:05.45Lone_WandererDoes Picasa compete directly with Flickr?
18:14.23SunSparcLone_Wanderer: I would say they are for different purposes.
18:14.32SunSparcBut they could be used for the same thing.
18:14.47Lone_Wandererwhat's Picasa for?  I've never used it
18:14.47SunSparcExcept, I don't think you can protect images on Flickr.
18:14.56SunSparcIt is just an online photo album
18:15.11SunSparcLike Flickr, but done differently.
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18:15.57Lone_Wandererok, that's what I figured
18:16.07Lone_WandererAlso, you can apparently view .tif images with Picasa's client.
18:16.33Utah_Davethe picasa desktop client is awesome
18:16.38undertakingyouAny advice on securing forms from bots, like with captcha, that doesn't require an additional pear library?
18:16.54Utah_Daveit's great for managing your photos and doing small touchups
18:17.22Utah_Daveundertakingyou: I read a cool idea about that the other day.
18:17.43Utah_Davesomething about creating an extra field that looks like it's supposed to be filled in, but hide it with css  or javascript
18:17.53Lone_Wandererdo captchas even protect against bots?
18:18.17undertakingyouLone_Wanderer: I've heard they do.
18:18.18Utah_Davethen when the form is posted check for that field. If the field has data, dump that data
18:18.43SunSparcundertakingyou: You could have a random question that a person needs to answer, 1+1, or who is the president, etc.
18:18.45undertakingyouUtah_Dave: that is a cool idea actually.
18:19.18undertakingyouSunSparc: have it a static question or have a supply of random questions?
18:19.39SunSparcEither way.  Random would probably be better.
18:19.50thebigdogfungus, you around?
18:19.52SunSparcSomething that is common knowledge though.
18:20.31Lone_WandererYou could have a random sentence generator, and then ask which word in the sentence is the verb or the noun or something.
18:21.00SunSparcDexterTheDragon: True, you have to think more.  :p
18:21.02Lone_WandererOf course the random sentence option assumes that your users know the difference between nouns and verbs...
18:21.22SunSparcThen again, some of the Captcha I have encountered was near impossible to read.
18:21.23undertakingyouI am really liking Utah_Dave's idea, that seems easy to implement.
18:21.25DexterTheDragonyeah I'm filling out a form not trying to win a game show
18:21.28Lone_WandererThat depends on the captcha.  Some of them mangle the characters so badly that you can't tell the difference between 5's and S's
18:22.03SunSparc:)
18:22.18Lone_WandererBut random sentence generators are easy, and you could use the structure of the randomly generated sentence to phrase the question.
18:22.28Lone_Wandereri.e. "Sue hit the ball with a bat."  "Who hit the ball with a bat?"
18:22.35herlohttp://www.blogupp.com/ <-- cool idea to share blogs with others
18:26.35SunSparcLooks like the blog version of LinkExchange.
18:27.16utahconyeah
18:36.11mgearydataw0lf: ping
18:36.25dataw0lfmgeary: pong
18:48.31mgearyhey, anyone here have much experience doing PHP session handling via database, rather than the default way?
18:48.43mgearyseems like someone posted a link about that a couple of weeks ago
18:50.39utahconI haven't... would be interested in the problem/solution.
18:50.55josephscottbeware of race conditions
18:51.06mgearyi'll bet
18:53.44josephscotthttp://thwartedefforts.org/2006/11/11/race-conditions-with-ajax-and-php-sessions/
18:55.55mgearyinteresting. thanks
18:57.28carmonyrace conditions suck :(
18:57.56carmonylol, that was published on my birthday
18:58.51josephscottscaling sessions is a pain
18:59.05mgearyyeah
18:59.18carmonyEspecially when people treat sessions like a glorified $GLOBALS[] and store everything in it
19:01.48SunSparc$_SESSION = persistent $_GLOBALS
19:01.48dataw0lfI make my programmers only store ids in sessions.  It forces them to think about what they're doing.
19:02.39SunSparcdataw0lf: Even with model data?
19:02.46josephscottnot using a session store makes this a bit easier to scale WordPress, there are other challenges, but at least managing a session store isn't one of them
19:02.50dataw0lfmodel data?  All you need is the model id.
19:03.37SunSparcSure, if you want to query the db on each page.  I can see that where model data is not needed on each page.
19:04.50dataw0lfthe overhead is minimal.
19:05.04dataw0lfespecially compared to storing everyone and their grandmother in a session.
19:05.16josephscottand memcache can help there as well
19:05.30SunSparcHeh, yes, I can see that.  I agree, Session can be overused.
19:06.10mgearyyeah, we generally just store a logged-in user id, and if applicable a skin id in a session
19:06.11josephscottif the scale is limited, stuffing things in a session store can make things easy
19:06.32dataw0lfstill sloppy.
19:07.06dataw0lfthere are obviously times to use it when you're able to, but I don't think it's good production practice.
19:08.56josephscottsince it's hard to know really what your future scaling requirements would be I discourage the practice as a general rule
19:09.01SunSparcdataw0lf: Your passion on the topic causes me to evaluate my use of session...
19:09.33mgearyhey, can you set an Alias in an .htaccess file?
19:10.22SunSparcmgeary: I would think you can put just about any Apache config in a .htaccess file, understanding that it will only affect current directory structure.
19:10.37fungusmgeary: No.  Only server config, or VirtualHost
19:10.39fungushttp://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#alias
19:10.55mgearyany concerns about something like this:
19:11.06josephscottand if you are using rails then you'll never need more than one server http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1509-mr-moore-gets-to-punt-on-sharding
19:11.22mgearyalias /somedir /
19:11.33mgearysuch that /somedir/test.php resolves to /test.php
19:11.59mgearyany danger of recursion?
19:12.18fungusYou can use a Redirect for that, or mod_rewrite
19:12.24mgearyi know
19:12.29mgearybut an alias seemed simpler
19:12.34mgearyso it's not good?
19:14.51utahconjosephscott: am I reading that right? Don't plan for the future?
19:15.19dataw0lfSunSparc: forcing my programmers to only use ids is one of the primary things I get thanked for down the road.
19:16.14SunSparcdataw0lf: Good to know.  I do not consider myself to be a SESSION abuser, but limiting things even further is certainly something to consider.  Thank you for the concept.
19:16.20josephscottutahcon: the theory seems to be that you'll always be able to buy a big enough box to handle all of your traffic.  so far wordpress.com has found to not be the case
19:16.57utahconLOL
19:17.06utahconapparently he doesn't work with the people I work with.
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19:17.32mgearysupernovia: ping
19:17.40josephscottthat post also made me wonder if the basecamp user base is a lot smaller than I originally thought
19:18.10supernoviaping me?
19:18.22supernoviaSorry, I was opening stuff up still & didn't notice :-)  Pong!
19:18.54whiteingeIs it customary to tell a firm what your budget is when submitting a spec for a bid? Seems counter-intuitive to me to do so.
19:18.58utahconjosephscott: Could you move to Ruby/Rails and only need 1 server for wordpress.com?
19:19.51SunSparcwhiteinge: It could help with the results.  If you cannot spend more than a certain amount, hopefully the firm will do their best to work within your budget.
19:19.56mgearywhiteinge: i wish they would. Most customers don't believe developers are honest enough
19:20.00josephscottif you can find a single server that could also magically co-exist in multiple datacenters at the same time, maybe :-)
19:20.01SunSparcwhiteinge: Or tell you that what you want is not feasible.
19:20.01mgearythey believe we'll just take the whole thing
19:20.14mgearyhowever, knowing a budget helps a developer do a reality check
19:20.21supernoviaagreed
19:20.38dataw0lfthe Rails community has some odd perspectives on scaling.
19:20.42supernoviaif they want to keep it within a small budget they can priotritize their needs
19:20.45mgeary"hey, i want to do X, Y, and Z. My budget is 123. What do you think it would cost?"
19:20.53SunSparcTrue, it also depends on how trustworthy the firm is.  Do your research on them.
19:21.26supernoviagoodness.  Prioritize
19:21.55dataw0lfso anyone up for lunch next Friday?
19:21.59whiteingegotcha. thanks, guys
19:22.06SunSparcsupernovia: priotritize sounds good also  ;)
19:22.19utahconwhiteinge: I prefer the client tell me what they are expecting to spend. It helps me to educate back to the customer what is reality. I know that sounds coarse but when you can honestly tell a customer you can't do everything for $100, they seem to understand and make better choices as to what is important.
19:22.30SunSparcwhiteinge: Oh, and also use my firm.  ;)
19:22.33utahcondataw0lf: where and when?
19:23.03SunSparcwhiteinge: j/k
19:23.06supernoviaheheh, thanks Sunsparc
19:23.16SunSparcsupernovia: You are welcome.
19:23.18mgearyutahcon: right. And when the customer asks for the sun and the moon, and their budget is $1.5k, you as a developer know not to waste your time writing a scope/bid/estimate
19:23.41SunSparcsupernovia: Are you still "mad as heck"?
19:24.15DexterTheDragonand not taking it anymore?
19:24.23SunSparcheh
19:24.29supernoviahehe
19:24.31supernoviaexactly
19:24.39utahcondoh!
19:24.45dataw0lfutahcon: dunno, ideas?
19:25.01dataw0lftierra / optikal: late Friday lunch?
19:25.08dataw0lfI get in around 1, I think, lemme check
19:25.12utahconwrote a "feature", discontinued feature... let it sit in the code for a while. Deleted feature, finally. Feature requested be put back in code.
19:25.42utahconI am pretty open to anywhere. I am central is the SL Valley.
19:25.46dataw0lfyea get in around 1:15
19:25.46utahcons/is/in/
19:26.26supernoviasunsparc & dexterthedagon I'd say I'm not so mad bas heck, but I still won't be taking it ;-)
19:26.59DexterTheDragons/bas/as/
19:27.04DexterTheDragon:)
19:27.12carmonylol
19:27.14SunSparcsupernovia: :)  What made you mad?
19:27.41supernoviahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE
19:27.55supernoviathat's what inspired me to yell out the window anyway ;-)
19:28.25mindjujudoes this page come up fast for anybody?
19:28.25mindjujuhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Dovecot
19:28.55mindjujustarts out way slow and stalls about 30%
19:29.04supernovia10 .. 11 ... 12 ... 13 ... 14 .. 15 .. 16..
19:29.10supernoviastill not loaded yet here
19:29.21mindjujuoh good, so its not just me
19:29.32mindjujutoo bad i need this FREAKIN' page to FINISH!!!!
19:29.58supernoviayeah it's still not up :-S
19:32.21Lone_Wandererwhiteinge: I really hesitate to work for someone who's not willing to discuss their budget.
19:32.36Lone_WandererIn hard numbers, even.
19:32.48dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: late lunch next Friday?
19:33.06supernoviawhat you can do too if they're unwilling to discuss a budjet is draw up something that says what you can do for what price
19:33.15Lone_WandererI've had people who thought that "discussing the budget" meant that they sent me an email saying "We have a virtually UNLIMITED budget for this, so go ahead and scope out everything we want right away!"
19:33.23Lone_Wandererand then I find out that "virtually unlimited" means $5k
19:33.34Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: yes please
19:33.42Lone_WandererBy next Friday do you mean tomorrow?
19:33.53dataw0lfnay, next Friday.
19:33.59Lone_Wanderersure
19:34.09dataw0lfflying in to watch Watchmen with tierra, optikal and all those jokers.
19:34.31Lone_Wanderercool.  Friday night you're seeing it?
19:34.40dataw0lfyea at the imax
19:34.45Lone_Wanderercool
19:34.49Lone_WandererIt sounds like fun >.>
19:35.02dataw0lfwell you're welcome to come along, Mr. Passive Aggressive.
19:35.23Lone_WandererMr. Doesn't Want To Invite Himself.
19:35.27Lone_Wanderer;)
19:35.46Lone_WandererI guess you don't have any problem telling people you don't want them around, though.
19:36.04dataw0lfhehe, psh.  we never get a chance to hang out, you can always invite yourself.
19:36.14dataw0lfyea I'd let you know.
19:37.20mindjujulooks like the whole ubuntu site has been foobed
19:38.00mindjujuoh wait, its just help.ubuntu.com that is
19:38.17Lone_WandererJust the other day I had lunch with a guy who stared into the Windows vs. Linux thing.
19:38.32dataw0lfstared futilely, with no sense of hope?
19:38.45Lone_WandererHe's a Windows guy.  Loves how everything he wants is already available, in an easily installable and full-featured package, on Windows.
19:38.50Lone_Wandererstarted into*
19:38.55dataw0lf:P
19:39.02tierradataw0lf: late lunch would work
19:39.05Lone_WandererI just mentioned that I was having trouble getting Apache and PHP to play nice together.
19:39.13DexterTheDragonlike how windows only comes with paint and notepad
19:39.15Lone_Wanderer"Well you know if you were using Windows it would all work fine."
19:39.16dataw0lftierra: blacken'd catfishes?
19:39.22Lone_WandererI didn't even argue.
19:39.55tierradataw0lf: hehe, well, I'm not sure that's what I'll get, but yeah, Bayou would be good
19:40.02Lone_WandererOhh, the Bayou.
19:40.03DexterTheDragonthats when ya just ask how them viruses are
19:40.10dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: sound good?
19:40.11Lone_WandererWent out with a girl last weekend who I met there.
19:40.13Lone_WandererYeah.
19:40.18dataw0lfcool
19:40.26dataw0lfutahcon: any problems with the Bayou?
19:40.40Lone_WandererOh, he also said that Windows is "just as secure" as Linux.
19:41.08Lone_WandererAnd just as powerful, configurable, etc. etc.  I didn't argue with any of it, I just smiled to myself.
19:41.32Lone_WandererAnd made a note to start looking for other work.  (The lunch was to talk about possibly working together.)
19:41.53carmonywow
19:42.06carmonyanyone see ma.tt's new WP theme? :P
19:42.14utahconat dataw0lf: the Bayou, the bar? No problem with that...
19:42.28utahconcarmony: yes... it is sweet.
19:42.29dataw0lfutahcon: it's a restaurant...
19:42.33utahconreminds me I can't design.
19:42.34dataw0lf(with an excellent beer selection)
19:42.38carmonylol
19:43.05utahconno yes I do
19:43.07dataw0lfserves the greatest blackened catfish this side of the Colorado
19:43.10Lone_Wanderercarmony: link to WP theme?
19:43.22utahconLone_Wanderer: http://ma.tt
19:43.50supernoviait almost looks like strange currency ..
19:44.00Lone_WandererWhat exactly is a WordCamp?  Do you just go and learn to use WP?
19:44.23Lone_Wanderer...that is amazing artwork
19:44.29utahconLone_Wanderer: Yes and no.
19:44.41supernoviathere were several topics . design, plugins, podcasts..
19:44.49supernoviawordpress, of course..
19:45.04Lone_WandererInteresting thing about RSS is that you can do that to your site (use the entire "above the fold" space for gorgeous artwork) and people will only really see it when they first visit your site, so it's okay.
19:45.27carmonyROFL, the Camera Lens with the smoke coming out, at first I though it was some sort of large bong. I was like "wtf? Oh, its a lens..."
19:45.29Lone_WandererSo it's just a general blogging-type thing that's vaguely related to WP?
19:45.49utahconDepends on the WPCamp you attend.
19:46.23Lone_Wanderercarmony, duuuude... I dropped my Nikkor 200mm the other day and, like... *puff puff*... totally broke the... you know, the glass things?  inside?
19:46.29utahcondataw0lf: the bayou on 645 state?
19:46.30supernovialol carmony
19:46.39supernoviahehe
19:46.39Lone_WandererSo... *puff puff* I made it into this awesome bong...
19:46.40dataw0lfutahcon: I believe that's where it's at, yes.
19:46.53utahconyeah... beervana!
19:46.58Lone_WandererMmmmm, beer.
19:47.06utahcon32 on tap... 256 in the cooler.
19:47.30dataw0lfnever knew there was such a treasure in Salt Lake until UTOSC
19:48.30DexterTheDragonmindjuju: seems to be working now
19:50.05tierrautahcon: yeah, the one and only I believe
19:51.32mindjujuDexterTheDragon - what up
19:51.58mindjujuoh, the dovecot instruction
19:52.00mindjujucool, thx!
19:52.14mindjujui switched over to something else for the interim, now to switch back
19:54.21Lone_WandererI just used "gobbledygook" appropriately in a sentence.
19:54.25Lone_WandererI am so proud of myself.
19:55.27supernoviayou should be.
19:56.04mindjuju~seen beandog
19:56.08jbotbeandog <n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 20h 13m 50s ago, saying: 'that there'll do it.'.
19:56.11supernoviaoh hey, mindjuju - that dovecot page is working now
19:56.22carmonylol, I always wonder what it would be like to read the code of bix between English Professor and Code...
19:56.26mindjujuoh cool :)
19:56.40carmonyCoder*
19:59.42utahconugh
20:00.09utahconDoing monkey work for monkey who isn't here.
20:00.16utahconCome to find out CVS and Live are much different.
20:00.18utahconComparing.
20:01.02dataw0lfCVS?
20:01.12utahconoh yes... CVS.
20:01.54utahconlol
20:02.29SunSparcis CVS still around?
20:02.36dataw0lfhttp://www.nypost.com/seven/03042009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/deputy_mayor_tackles_mugger_in_midtown_157990.htm
20:02.44utahconit is at SOS.
20:03.56*** join/#uphpu cro (n=cro@c-67-177-45-50.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
20:05.33SunSparcdataw0lf: Wow, that is a rare site.  One human being looking after another.
20:05.42SunSparcs/site/sight
20:05.52utahconshould happen more often
20:05.55SunSparcAmen
20:06.23dataw0lfagreed
20:10.35supernoviathat was awesome dataw0lf
20:11.35dataw0lfyea
20:29.01undertakingyouUtah_Dave: thanks for your suggestion on bot blocking. So far it seems to be working well.
20:37.54herlodataw0lf: were you referring to Fiddlers Elbow?
20:39.02mindjujuthere was something i could put into bash that would tell me what the mail server was doing -- i think it was something like blahblah.log tail -f
20:39.17mindjujudoes that sound familiar to anybody?
20:41.51Utah_Davetail -f logfile.log
20:42.07mindjujuawesome!  thx
20:46.23Lone_Wanderer<3 tail -f
20:47.39*** part/#uphpu toofer (n=toofer@kjordan.securesites.net)
20:48.20whiteingeno such file or directory: 3
20:50.08supernoviahehee
20:51.19herlomindjuju: ping
20:51.21Lone_WandererWhy am I not surprised that a page made by someone on Ft. Eustis is crashing my browser?
20:51.53Lone_WandererIf you guessed "Because Ft. Eustis is a blemish on the face of not only the US Military, but humanity as a whole", you're RIGHT!
20:53.11carmonywhy is that Lone_Wanderer?
20:53.19Lone_WandererWhich part?
20:53.35Lone_WandererThe part about Ft. Eustis being a blemish on the face of humanity?
20:53.51carmonyyes
20:54.21Lone_WandererI could go on and on about it
20:54.40Lone_Wandererbut I think a better solution would be to link you to my blog post about it
20:54.55supernoviaThat bad eh?
20:55.16Lone_WandererHere's the most recent one http://gracewanderer.livejournal.com/139268.html
20:55.51supernoviaand wonders what the rest of them should be called...
20:55.57Lone_Wandererhttp://gracewanderer.livejournal.com/138074.html
20:56.20Lone_WandererHere's the best one - "Why I Hate It Here" http://gracewanderer.livejournal.com/136718.html
20:56.41Lone_WandererI can sum it up - "Everyone here is lazy, stupid, or drunk."
20:57.48mindjujuany postfix gurus in the house?
20:59.13supernovialol "this isn't really fair because, let's be honest, almost everyone is stupid compared to me."
21:00.10Lone_WandererWhen I was in high school my English teacher told me that if I ever joined the military I should read Catch 22, because "the idiots in that book will be all around you."
21:00.43supernoviaheheh
21:01.23supernoviatoo funny.  Though I can identify a bit.  I've had the fortune of being surrounded by people who are smarter than me (while still knowing I'm a fairly smart person) . It's nice
21:01.33supernoviaLas Vegas was not that way though. Holy blank stares, batman!
21:01.42Lone_WandererWhat happened in Vegas?
21:01.46supernoviaIt stays there.
21:01.53SunSparclol
21:02.07supernoviaWe lived there a year, just off the strip.
21:02.10Lone_Wanderer"No thanks, I don't want to visit a strip club"  followed by blank stares of "What's wrong with this guy"?
21:02.39supernoviahmm yeah I'd have to say if anyone would have invited me to a strip club I would have been fairly offended.
21:02.57supernoviaalthough I was offered a job once photoshopping for an online pimp. Good times.
21:03.20supernoviathey'd offered me the job, in fact, when I was like, now wait a sec, exactly what sort of work will I be doing?  And when I said no
21:03.27supernoviaThey called again a few days later offering me more money
21:04.26Lone_WandererThe whole "ethical objection" thing just didn't compute, did it?
21:04.27supernoviaYeah
21:04.44supernoviabut the bigger problem was you know.. somethings wrong with their eyes.. totally vacant
21:04.48supernovianot everyone, mind you
21:05.13supernoviabut most people we lived around were total zombies
21:05.42Lone_WandererWhat do you mean?
21:05.45SunSparcNot enough sleep?  Or no souls?
21:05.55Lone_WandererLike, just completely jaded?
21:06.01supernoviaLike no souls. Even though you know they had to be in there somewhere
21:06.03Lone_WandererVapid?  Dumb?
21:06.10supernoviaNo smiles, no souls. Vapid AND dumb
21:06.38supernoviaseriously it felt like most people I ran into were undead
21:06.40SunSparcConsumed by their fruitless lusts.
21:07.02supernoviaand on the rare occassion I'd find someone who wasn't, they knew exactly what I meant
21:07.12supernoviayeah, could well be Sunsparc
21:07.17Lone_WandererThat sounds just like being at BYU.
21:07.23SunSparcLOL
21:07.37supernoviahahah
21:07.50Lone_WandererI bet if you tried to talk to one of the zombies about it they would misunderstand completely, right?
21:08.09supernoviaOh yes.
21:08.14SunSparcZombies never think of themselves as zombies.
21:08.15Lone_WandererBut anyone on the outside looking in knew exactly what you meant.
21:08.21supernoviaTry returning a bag of slimy carrots to walmart
21:08.24SunSparcThat is the first rule of being a zombie.
21:08.29Lone_WandererWell, if you're completely surrounded by something, it's hard to recognize it.
21:08.32supernoviaand having them tell you, OK, that'll be $2.12
21:08.46supernovia"you mean I stood in line to pay you $2.12 to return carrots?"
21:08.53supernovia"That's what the machine says."
21:08.58SunSparcLone_Wanderer: so true
21:09.29Lone_WandererShe wanted you to pay her 2.12 for your own carrots?
21:09.58supernoviaShe wanted me to pay $2.12 to return them
21:10.10supernoviabecause apparently when I'd bought them the night before, they were on sale
21:10.18supernoviaand the price had gone up
21:10.18SunSparcThat doesn't compute. Wait, er... you're under arrest!
21:10.18carmonyROFLMAO
21:10.27supernoviaor something totally ridiculous like that
21:10.58Lone_WandererDid you buy a baseball bat or chainsaw and cleanse the store of her unholy presence?
21:10.58supernoviaand no matter how I tried to phrase what I thought was wrong with that, she just didn't get it. Same blank stare. Same "Well, the machine is always right."
21:11.30supernoviaThought about it
21:12.00supernoviaanyway that was at the store, at the restaurant, at the pool
21:12.15supernoviaat the wic office, at the government buildings
21:12.21supernoviaeverywhere.
21:12.24supernoviaso I can identify.
21:12.48SunSparcDehumanized.  Sounds like that quote from "Network".
21:12.57supernoviaYeah.
21:13.01*** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130)
21:13.01*** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ
21:13.14supernoviaI am going to have to watch that
21:13.19SunSparcSsh!  mindjuju is here!
21:13.26Lone_WandererScore!  CAC reader is already plugged in!
21:13.49SunSparcsupernovia: Yes, it looks interesting.
21:14.09crosupernovia: we don't frequent Vegas, but the few times I've been there I've always been struck by how unhappy everyone is.
21:14.13supernoviaI don't want to be disappointed
21:14.17supernoviaYeah.
21:14.39croI mean, you're supposed to be having a good time, right?  How come nobody smiles when they are sitting at the slots, then?
21:15.00utahconcro: you need to go to vegas with me D:
21:15.01utahcon:d
21:15.04utahconwe rip it up!
21:15.05supernoviaheheh
21:15.10supernovia"pleasure is, and must remain, a side-effect or a by-product, and is destroyed and spoiled to the degree to which it is made a goal in itself." - Frankl
21:16.30supernoviaIt's a profound book for sure.  Not easily digested but very good.
21:18.35supernoviait's taken me since Friday just to get to page 130 :-o
21:18.52SunSparcsupernovia: That book is on my shelf waiting for me.  Been meaning to get to it.
21:19.18unumI have it on my shelf as well
21:19.36supernoviaI'm .. a bit weak stomached. The first half was rough for me.
21:19.41SunSparcsupernovia: Disneyland is the opposite.  Everyone is smiling.  I think that smiling is in their contract.
21:20.03supernoviahehe, that's true, but usually people are at disneyland with someone they love
21:20.37SunSparcWell yes, but I mean the workers.  Never met one of the workers that was not polite, helpful, and smiling.
21:21.04supernoviaHmm, maybe other people's smiles are contagious
21:21.09supernoviaWell friends, I must go paint a set.
21:21.22SunSparcEnjoy
21:21.22supernoviaHave a super afternoon & evening :-)
21:36.36tonedevf1apparently this is a 0-day vulnerability many firms consider "Critical".  what exactly would it take to exploit this?  http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/29829
21:39.45josephscott0-day?  check the dates again, appears to be more than a year old
21:40.25tonedevf10-day means that many vendors still have not released a path
21:40.26tonedevf1patch
21:40.33tonedevf1not that it came out today
21:41.47josephscotthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_day_attack
21:41.48dataw0lfthat's not qualifiable as 0-day, there _is_ an available patch and it's a known weakness.
21:41.56josephscotthttp://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci955554,00.html
21:42.20josephscottI think most would agree that this is not 0-day issue
21:43.33tonedevf1tell that to SecurityFocus.  I just wanted to know how it could be exploited.
21:44.04tonedevf1and start a little discussion
21:45.21josephscottthere's additional info on the 'references' page: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/29829/references that contain more technical details
21:46.38dataw0lftonedevf1: you had user supplied input in what you're passing to the Cc:/To: headers that you're building with the uw imap library, a cracker would send a too long string, and reliably crash the web server.
21:46.43dataw0lfif you*
21:47.03dataw0lfif you're doing proper input sanitization, though, you'll be covered by bugs like this, though.
21:47.25dataw0lftoo many thoughs... sorry, this lunchable is keeping me busy
21:47.45tonedevfheheh
21:52.27mgeary~rlart
21:52.28jbotsays "boot to the head" and knocks opapo over
21:52.36mgearyopapo?
21:52.43mgeary~cornnuts opapo
21:52.44jbotACTION sends opapo out for CornNuts™ for everyone. "Mmm, extra crunchy!"
21:58.25tonedevfThe Suhosin patch claims to "protect the internal memory manager against bufferoverflows".  Is that the same part of the php core affected by this vulnerability?
22:32.17*** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=thebigdo@70.103.91.98)
22:32.18*** mode/#UPHPU [+o thebigdog] by ChanServ
22:34.49Lone_Wandererdataw0lf - did you hear that SF is being assigned spy duties now?
22:35.55thebigdogherlo you around?
22:37.19thebigdogwhere oh where did herlo go
22:37.28thebigdogi might have a job for him
22:42.14herlothebigdog: hi
22:43.49utahconw00t for bitly... saving me time entering urls on my G1
22:45.02SunSparcthebigdog: Are you still playing WoW?
22:45.06herloutahcon: is.gd is short
22:45.07herloer
22:45.24thebigdogSunSparc, nope
22:45.25utahconthanky
22:45.58SunSparcthebigdog: Nor am I, although I have been thinking of playing it with my 6 year old.
22:46.08SunSparcI think he would enjoy it.
22:46.34thebigdoghaha no way..that stuff is like crack
22:47.02SunSparcthebigdog: I agree, that is why I used to limit myself and would also limit my child.
22:47.22thebigdogi just cant do it...i like it and then it kills me
22:47.24SunSparcIn fact, I just blogged about that:  http://bluesun7.com/jonathan/2009/03/05/world-of-warcraft-vs-premium-television/
22:47.38SunSparcYep, I hear you.
22:48.38thebigdogSunSparc, ill check it out
22:48.49SunSparcLet me know what you think.
22:53.35thebigdogSunSparc, actually i think wow is worse
22:53.48SunSparc:)
22:54.22dataw0lfI levelled a rogue to 49 and got bored after destroying kids in pvp
22:54.33dataw0lfI don't know how people get addicted to WoW, it's too easy.
22:54.44thebigdogi destroy all rogues
22:54.53SunSparclol
22:55.14dataw0lfyou're insane.
22:55.34dataw0lfI'm a twinked 49 level rogue, I'll destroy anyone within 10 levels of me.
22:56.03thebigdogim lvl 39 and will destory you
22:56.10SunSparcI can see how it can be addicting if you allow yourself to get pulled into the alternate reality that the game creates.  It can be quite enticing.  But the addiction is avoidable, like all addiction.
22:56.12thebigdogand im not a twink
22:56.38thebigdogSunSparc, kinda...if you want to be good you have to have gear...thus the time sink
22:56.43thebigdogthen you have the dailies now
22:56.47SunSparcI see a PVP fight coming on.
22:56.48mgeary~dict twink
22:56.52dataw0lfthebigdog: you're high.
22:56.53dataw0lfhttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel%27Thuzad&n=Yutlang
22:56.58dataw0lfcheck out my WSG achievements.
22:57.30thebigdoghaha you have greens
22:57.30thebigdoghehe
22:57.50dataw0lfI have greens with 80 level enchantments on them because it takes a 80 level to apply them (can't do that with BoEs)
22:58.18dataw0lfI'd eat you for breakfast.  I have 20 bucks, in fact, that says you can't do 1k of damage on me before I slaughter you.
22:58.58thebigdoghaha
22:59.01unumarrived in hte mail today
22:59.02SunSparcLOL, this is good stuff!
22:59.07dataw0lfif the mongoose on my dagger procs, you won't even do 100 damage.
22:59.17dataw0lfI do 2k worth of damage before you get stunned, easy.
22:59.21dataw0lfget unstunned*
23:00.31mgearyalright, so now we need to stage a match and record a screencam
23:00.35dataw0lfwe sure do.
23:00.40dataw0lfwhat class is your level 39, bigdog?
23:01.01dataw0lfthe only possibility I can think of is he has a pally
23:01.13dataw0lfMAYBE a twinked level 39 pally could take me
23:01.21mgeary~wiki twinked
23:01.23dataw0lfif I was unconscious
23:01.50dataw0lfbut if he has a clothie he's barking up the wrong tree.
23:02.20SunSparcmgeary: twinked means giving a lower level character all high level gear, iirc
23:02.22DexterTheDragon~wiki twinking
23:02.24dataw0lfoh he might be a hunter too but that's not going to help since you'll be dead even before your pet runs my blind out.
23:02.55dataw0lftwinking is essentially maximizing your gear at a certain PvP bracket level
23:02.57dataw0lf40-49 for me
23:03.16dataw0lfall of my gear is considered the "top" twink gear (besides my chest piece but the top twink item isn't THAT much better)
23:03.41SunSparc~console mgeary
23:03.43jbotACTION gives mgeary the consolation moose
23:04.00SunSparcheh
23:04.01mgearythat sounds vaguely nasty
23:04.58Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: I could have taken you when I was in your range.
23:05.34Lone_WandererThen again when I was in your range the mechanics were different.  That was when BM hunters were unstoppable.
23:06.23dataw0lfin my range, yes, hunters and pallies are about the only ones who have a chance of beating me.
23:06.36dataw0lfmaybe a lock with 4K+ hp
23:06.50Lone_WandererBut hunters are pretty much designed to be rogue killers, and pallies are currently OP
23:06.56dataw0lfyea
23:07.07Lone_Wanderer(But you still have to be good)
23:07.19dataw0lfI have a hard time believing that a non-twinked level 39 can take me, regardless of the class.
23:07.31Lone_WandererSame.  10 levels is too much.
23:07.35Lone_WandererEven a twinked 39.
23:07.38dataw0lfyea
23:07.46dataw0lfa twinked 39 could destroy a normal 49, sure
23:08.04dataw0lfbut a twink 39 versus a twink 49 and you're not going to have much luck unless the 49 stinks, and I don't.
23:08.23Lone_WandererIt's too bad you play Alliance.
23:08.31dataw0lfI have a horde hunter
23:08.44Lone_WandererWhat race?
23:08.47dataw0lftauren
23:08.57Lone_Wandererexcellent
23:09.04Lone_Wandererwarstomp ftw
23:09.10dataw0lfyea fo realz
23:09.15Lone_Wanderertrinket, warstomp, wingclip
23:09.21dataw0lfhehe, yup
23:09.42Lone_WandererI like fighting pallies (or used to...)
23:09.54dataw0lfwith my rogue trinket + vanish + cold blooded + ambush + backstab + thistle + kidney shot = X_X
23:09.59Lone_WandererI'd wait 'till they got low, then hit Intimidation so they can't bubble before they die :D
23:10.20dataw0lfI like when they bubble when they're out of combat and you sap them
23:10.25Lone_WandererXD
23:10.28dataw0lfthen dance in front of em
23:10.40Lone_WandererI always enjoyed watching a rogue vanish when I had him marked.
23:10.51dataw0lfgrrr damn hunter's mark
23:10.54Lone_WandererSometimes I would even pretend not to be able to see him, just to mess with him.
23:10.58dataw0lfhaha
23:11.15Lone_Wanderer(Don't want them to figure it out if they don't already know.)
23:11.44dataw0lfnoob rogues are sad
23:11.53Lone_WandererYeah.  Noob hunters are worse though.
23:12.04dataw0lfnoobs AGAINST hunters are even worse
23:12.12dataw0lf"STOP ATTACKING THEIR PET OMG YOU'RE KILLING ME DUDE"
23:12.14Lone_WandererMet a troll hunter once in WC who always fought melee 'cause it looked cooler.
23:12.20dataw0lfwat
23:12.33dataw0lfhaha, that's ridiculous.  yea, hunters who can't / won't kite get destroyed quick
23:12.49Lone_WandererYeah the animations for serpent sting and stuff, their toon spins around or something.
23:12.58Lone_WandererYou don't even have to kite in an instance.
23:13.03Lone_WandererWell, except the General.
23:13.16mgearyit's like you're speaking a different language
23:13.17Lone_WandererOld Skool
23:13.37Lone_WandererI got three of the four demon heads before BC came out, too.
23:14.11Lone_WandererDon't worry about it, mgeary.  We're just more hardcore than you.  More - as they say - 1337.
23:14.20mgearyyoung punks
23:14.29Lone_WandererI'm even leet enough for Molten Core.
23:14.36dataw0lfI've never gotten to 80, I just stick at 49 and pwn at zie pvp (no interest outside of pvp and want to get mucho experience before hitting the arena)
23:14.38mgearyi had like the first 5 levels of Wizardry completely memorized
23:14.45dataw0lfhaha Wizardry
23:14.51dataw0lfyou're ancient, mgeary.
23:15.02Lone_WandererPVP changes when you level up
23:15.02mgearyrespect your elders, sonny
23:15.23dataw0lfoh I know PvP changes but I've only been playing a couple months
23:15.30dataw0lfjust want to get all the basics down
23:15.36dataw0lfbut I've gotten bored.
23:15.40Lone_Wandererahh ok
23:15.50Lone_Wandererhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBsUi6OFfLE
23:15.58Lone_Wanderer(MC Raiders)
23:16.59Lone_Wandererlanguage warning apparently
23:18.08dataw0lfanyway, I'd certainly come out of semi-retirement to pwn thebigdog
23:18.21Lone_WandererAssuming you're on the same server.
23:18.38dataw0lfindeed, doubtful at the very least.
23:20.07fungusyou are missing out.  The lvl 80 stuff is really fun.
23:20.41Lone_WandererI just can't be bothered to do the grind.
23:20.57dataw0lfyea, I have no interest except for killing player controlled characters
23:21.00Lone_WandererMy hunter is 70-something.
23:21.06fungusIt's not bad at all after 58-59
23:21.07Lone_WandererIf I could level through pvp then I would.
23:21.11Lone_WandererLIES!
23:21.39fungus70-80 is really easy.  So many quests to choose from.
23:21.41Lone_WandererOr maybe I'm doing it wrong.  I don't know.
23:21.45dataw0lfyea if I could level through pvp I'd be level 70 something already
23:22.09Lone_WandererAnyway, gotta go eat something so I don't die.
23:22.32Lone_WandererThen I'm going to whip up a clone of my gym's web site (which is terrible for numerous reasons)
23:22.33dataw0lfyea, I always want to avoid dying too
23:22.48Lone_Wandererand try to get them to trade the web site for a free month
23:24.01mgearyjust one month?
23:24.03mgeary$20??
23:24.06mgearydude
23:24.14mgearyif that's how you work, come do some work for me
23:24.48Lone_WandererWell, I want to do it anyway.
23:24.52dataw0lfyea, I'll give you 5 pairs of slightly used socks and two broken guitar strings if you want to help me write this Publicus macro
23:24.56Lone_WandererAnd it's $80 a month (that's after the military discount)
23:25.01SunSparcLOL
23:25.12SunSparcSeriously, you can come do my job for me and I will pay you $20/month
23:25.16dataw0lfhaha
23:25.23mgearyLone_Wanderer: ah, well still
23:25.32dataw0lfdude you can exercise at my apartment for an hour a day
23:25.39SunSparcROFL
23:25.45mgearyhey, come to my house and my dog will chase you for an hour
23:26.03SunSparcHA!  Your new trainer!
23:26.21mgearyyes, and talk about being motivated
23:26.22dataw0lf"What's that lassie?!  The lats need work?   Ok, girl!"
23:26.44SunSparcHA!
23:27.06SunSparcSorry, Lone_Wanderer, you still with us?  heh
23:27.09Lone_WandererYeah but your apartment isn't a CrossFit gym :p
23:27.50dataw0lfyou're right, it's a bachelor pad, smells about the same, you'll feel right at home
23:28.06dataw0lfor "at gym", as the case may be.
23:28.21Lone_Wanderer=)
23:30.05dataw0lfman I can't wait for blackened catfish next Friday, that stuff is tasty
23:30.44SunSparcdataw0lf: Did you guys decide on a place to eat?
23:31.34dataw0lfSunSparc: Aye, zie Bayou.
23:32.28dataw0lfdidn't know they had pool, may have to scam tierra out of some of his money
23:32.39dataw0lftierra: bring your cue to the airport when you pick me up
23:33.59dataw0lfSunSparc: really good cajun food http://www.utahbayou.com/node/5
23:35.30dataw0lfthis "cajun" fettucine comes with the blackened catfish, it's oh-so-tasty.
23:35.47SunSparcBut that is all the way in downtown Salt Lake... probably won't be able to do a lunch there.
23:35.58dataw0lfdurn
23:36.05SunSparcdataw0lf: Sounds really good.
23:37.38Lone_WandererI was at a party once and I met a guy who bragged about having all the digits of pi memorized.
23:38.51SunSparcLone_Wanderer: ALL of them?
23:38.54SunSparcWow
23:39.05Lone_WandererYeah.
23:39.14Lone_WandererWe made fun of him later.
23:39.22SunSparcheh
23:39.23SunSparcWow!  Alligator sausage cheesecake?
23:39.47Lone_WandererEven better, though, when I told that story to someone else, they were just like "Oh cool!", and then came back the next day going "Waaaait a minute... I think that guy may have been pulling your leg..."
23:40.58SunSparcYeah... heh, that is a lot of digits ;)
23:41.12Lone_WandererOkay now I'm really going to go eat.
23:44.05herlodataw0lf: SunSparc: I have a membership there :)
23:44.19herlothere = The Bayou! Awesome foodz
23:44.53SunSparcherlo: Yeah, the menu has some good looking stuff on it.
23:45.54herloSunSparc: if you ever wanna go, let me know
23:46.15SunSparcherlo: It requires a membership?
23:47.37DexterTheDragonwelcome to utah liquor laws
23:48.19SunSparcYeah, I saw the news that they that may finally be done away with.
23:48.34DexterTheDragonwith new crazy ones to replace them
23:48.42SunSparcherlo: Perhaps you could host the UPHPU after party for an upcoming meeting.
23:48.54SunSparcDexterTheDragon: Yeah, the 10 foot wall.  Retarded.
23:54.25dataw0lfherlo: haha, the 10 foot wall
23:54.27dataw0lferr
23:54.32dataw0lfthat wasn't supposed to be assigned to anyone
23:54.43dataw0lfherlo: I'm flying in next Friday - we're having a late lunch there, y'down?
23:55.54dataw0lfp.s. if anyone can't afford lunch I'll pay.
23:56.16mgeary~moneybags dataw0lf
23:56.20mgearyahh, to be a single guy
23:57.09unumit is nice being single and working a full time job
23:57.16unumthough not having sex really sucks
23:57.23SunSparcdataw0lf: what time is "late"?
23:57.25unumbut plenty of married guys don't get that either
23:57.44SunSparcunum: lol
23:57.44mgearytmi
23:59.09dataw0lfunum: speak for yourself.
23:59.15dataw0lfSunSparc: probably around 2, I was thinking?
23:59.18dataw0lfwe're flexible, I'm sure
23:59.21Lone_WandererYou're not married now are you dw?
23:59.40dataw0lflord no.
23:59.43Lone_Wandererwhew
23:59.59SunSparcdataw0lf: Ok, thanks.  Good to know just in case I can make it.

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