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| 15:35.12 | carmony | good monday morning |
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| 15:49.30 | cro | 'morning all |
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| 15:54.34 | carmony | lol, I'm jelious |
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| 16:24.00 | carmony | Hows everyones' monday? |
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| 16:25.11 | utahcon | It's monday?! |
| 16:27.10 | carmony | lol |
| 16:27.14 | herlo | ah shoot, that means I should be at work by now |
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| 16:46.40 | DexterTheDragon | ~seen mindjuju |
| 16:46.42 | jbot | mindjuju <n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 2d 18h 31m ago, saying: ':)'. |
| 16:47.10 | carmony | wow, thats the longest I've seen Victor gone :P |
| 16:47.20 | mgeary | ~miss mindjuju |
| 16:47.21 | jbot | ACTION whips a six shooter from her hip and fires just to the right of mindjuju. |
| 16:47.25 | mgeary | heh |
| 16:47.28 | Utah_Dave | what? is he sick or something? |
| 16:47.28 | DexterTheDragon | 2 days ago, that almost calls for an amber alert |
| 16:47.50 | Utah_Dave | ~amberalert mindjuju |
| 17:08.22 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130) |
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| 17:08.44 | DexterTheDragon | ~apb mindjuju |
| 17:08.45 | jbot | ACTION summons Leland to rough up mindjuju |
| 17:08.58 | mindjuju | sup yo |
| 17:09.51 | cro | Driving through Victorville, CA yesterday I saw a big sign for an apartment complex that said "Victor Villa" Wish I'd taken a picture. |
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| 17:10.04 | DexterTheDragon | or stolen it |
| 17:10.14 | mindjuju | that would have been awesome! |
| 17:11.30 | cro | oops, actually it's a trailer park. :-) |
| 17:12.56 | cro | This is it, but you can't read the sign. |
| 17:12.56 | cro | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=victor+villa&sll=34.506966,-117.330136&sspn=0.335538,0.580215&g=victorville,+ca&ie=UTF8&ll=34.494249,-117.329392&spn=0,359.981868&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=34.494337,-117.329342&panoid=lxfmy99dcTyJSm7l0rIY7Q&cbp=12,73.00035840617608,,0,5.000000000000001 |
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| 17:14.35 | cro | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=victor+villa&sll=34.506966,-117.330136&sspn=0.335538,0.580215&g=victorville,+ca&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=34.49459,-117.329179&panoid=WHfKmhh3I5E3fFrhJbI6BQ&cbp=12,165.9242555063173,,0,5&ll=34.494496,-117.329242&spn=0,359.981868&z=16&iwloc=A |
| 17:14.42 | cro | There, other direction |
| 17:17.15 | mindjuju | cro - that's awesome! |
| 17:19.12 | cro | yeah, I thought it was pretty cool |
| 17:20.54 | Utah_Dave | DexterTheDragon: that would be funny to drop that huge sign in mindjuju's front yard! |
| 17:29.18 | SunSparc | hehe |
| 17:29.42 | SunSparc | Everyone here heard of the Fair Tax? http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=calculator |
| 17:33.25 | mgeary | sounds wildly unrealistic to me |
| 17:34.34 | fungus | "Abolishes the IRS" yeah, very unrealistic. |
| 17:35.30 | SunSparc | Why? |
| 17:35.33 | mgeary | when it comes to budgeting, you can look at your income, and decide how to spend it (bad), or you can look at your expenses, and decide how to divide up your income to meet them (better). Fair Tax seems to take the first approach. That's like saying that because you make $20k a year, you'll spend $1000 a year on a house. Now go out and try to find that house... |
| 17:36.00 | fungus | No matter what form of taxation, an organization is necessary to administer it. |
| 17:36.09 | mgeary | our country is currently *very* expensive to operate |
| 17:36.17 | mgeary | i'm all on board for getting those costs down |
| 17:36.23 | SunSparc | Very true. We need a smaller government too. |
| 17:36.30 | mgeary | but you can't just say, "okay, now we're going to run on less money" |
| 17:37.07 | mgeary | it's going to have to be a gradual process. And frankly, that $440bln we spend a year on our military complex is a pretty tempting target, imo |
| 17:37.09 | SunSparc | mgeary: I don't think that is what they are saying. |
| 17:37.54 | SunSparc | Well, if anything, the military is one of the few things that our government SHOULD be spending money on. |
| 17:38.30 | mgeary | we spend more on military than the next 5-10 countries COMBINED |
| 17:38.55 | fungus | I'm not going to read any more about it, because they already lost my confidence based on the sensationalism. |
| 17:39.09 | fungus | "Abolish the IRS" "Tax Calculator" etc. |
| 17:41.09 | cro | Anybody have opinions about getting Utopia service? I got a flyer in my mailbox that says it's available in my area now. |
| 17:41.16 | mgeary | go for it |
| 17:41.22 | SunSparc | cro: do it |
| 17:41.23 | mgeary | fiber is teh bombe |
| 17:41.23 | mindjuju | i wish it was in my area |
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| 17:41.47 | cro | What about the TV side? |
| 17:41.50 | SunSparc | it is a on the next street from my house with no eta on coming to mine |
| 17:42.26 | fungus | cro: not sure about the TV part, but the internet part is crucial |
| 17:42.29 | mindjuju | i've heard the tv side is bad |
| 17:42.29 | SunSparc | http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h25/show |
| 17:42.46 | fungus | If it's available you'd have to be a retard not to choose it. IMHO |
| 17:42.48 | SunSparc | cro: just get DirectTV or something else. |
| 17:46.54 | cro | ok, thanks guys, that's very helpful |
| 17:47.34 | mindjuju | SunSparc - i think your posts are interesting ideas, but i think the quick debate that formed is pretty indicative of the real battle lines. I think everybody wants a leaner goverment, but some feel that government has a duty to its citizens through social services and would like to see a cut in military spending, similar to those enacted in the Clinton era. While others feel the cuts should happen in the social services area |
| 17:48.25 | dataw0lf | if the American people wanted a FairTax, they would've voted for the candidate who proposed (either Gravel or Huckabee). But they didn't. The FairTax seems almost ridiculous coming from supply-side people when the FairTax would _dissuade_ consumerism. |
| 17:49.14 | mindjuju | disuade because of a much higher sales tax, dataw0lf? |
| 17:49.20 | mindjuju | or if not, how so, i'm just curious |
| 17:49.39 | mindjuju | and fair warning, i've got a meet here in 10 minutes, so i got to bail really wuick |
| 17:49.51 | mindjuju | and was just looking for better understanding of your arguement dataw0lf |
| 17:49.52 | dataw0lf | the Wall Street Journal did a lengthy article about how it would dissuade consumerism, lemme find it. |
| 17:49.59 | mindjuju | thx |
| 17:51.03 | dataw0lf | http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110011009 |
| 17:51.35 | dataw0lf | "Supply-side effects work on consumption taxes as well. When Congress slapped a "luxury tax" on yachts, people stopped buying yachts. The yacht-building industry was devastated; people working in it lost their jobs; and Congress ultimately repealed the tax. The Fair Tax would impose a 30% levy on all consumption, a powerful disincentive to spend money. People who need to spend money--including the young family and the elderly couple living off their ... |
| 17:51.41 | dataw0lf | ... assets--would get hit hard by the tax. Rich people, by contrast, would forgo luxuries or find ways around the tax." |
| 17:51.58 | dataw0lf | "Fair"Tax indeed. |
| 17:52.51 | dataw0lf | the funny thing is that the FairTax could possibly have an effect that Republicans have been screaming at the Democrats for ages: a socialization effect. |
| 17:53.00 | dataw0lf | It would completely kill the luxury industries |
| 17:53.31 | dataw0lf | while raising the standard of living for middle class and lower people so they could only buy subsistence products. |
| 17:54.50 | SunSparc | It's all perception, but I see how that could be an adverse side effect. |
| 17:54.52 | mindjuju | true, i think the method of collection of taxes is moot and not really the issue. the REAL issue is how government spends its money. like sunsparc said, he feels that gov should spend $$ on military (and probably other things that fall typically in line with conservative thought) and mgeary and fungus want to see money spent on social services and other items listed in a more liberal thought |
| 17:55.31 | dataw0lf | Well said, mindjuju. |
| 17:55.41 | mindjuju | :) |
| 17:55.49 | mindjuju | be back in an hour! |
| 17:55.55 | SunSparc | Have fun mindjuju |
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| 18:32.35 | dataw0lf | http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-February/307222.html hehehe. |
| 18:33.20 | strick9 | haha nice |
| 18:33.24 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:33.33 | carmony | lol |
| 18:33.36 | carmony | thats funny |
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| 18:35.48 | SunSparc | I have a site that will revolve around one simple survey that will be on the main page. I am debating just writing my own little survey app or using an existing tool. Anyone have opinions on survey code? |
| 18:36.17 | cro | how many responders? |
| 18:36.39 | mgeary | if you don't need to integrate it with another system/data source, use something existing. if you do, you'll probably need something custom |
| 18:36.55 | SunSparc | cro: potentially millions. |
| 18:37.05 | carmony | I've heard LimeSurvey is good: http://www.limesurvey.org/ |
| 18:38.05 | SunSparc | mgeary: data would be minimal, mysql or even flat file would be acceptable |
| 18:38.17 | mgeary | then i'd go with a 3rd part solution |
| 18:38.35 | mgeary | surveys are easy to make, but if you don't need anything integrated or custom, use your dev time elsewhere |
| 18:39.11 | SunSparc | mgeary: Good point. |
| 18:39.19 | SunSparc | carmony: Thanks, I will take a look at that. |
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| 18:49.42 | unum | we use cfmc :) |
| 18:49.48 | unum | but I'm sure you don't want that |
| 18:50.23 | dataw0lf | pwned: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/22/jacqui-smith-expenses-inquiry |
| 18:51.31 | SunSparc | unum, yeah, seems a bit overkill. ;) |
| 18:54.27 | unum | http://websurv.slc.venturedata.com/p9000/ |
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| 18:55.00 | SunSparc | Bad link. |
| 18:55.29 | unum | oops websurveys.venturedata.com/p9000/ |
| 18:58.31 | SunSparc | Yeah, that is a full on survey. |
| 18:59.24 | unum | if it's simple I'd probably write it myself, but I'm like that |
| 19:00.05 | unum | we mostly use cfmc for online surveys because we use it for telephone surveys |
| 19:00.11 | unum | so we can use the same tools on the data |
| 19:00.52 | SunSparc | Yeah, for as simple as this is, writing it myself is close to winning out. Thanks for the feedback though. |
| 19:09.35 | mgeary | strick9_: ping |
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| 19:14.26 | unum | my buddy and I were talking about doing something like this: http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx |
| 19:14.39 | unum | of course ours would have a liberal instead of conservative bias |
| 19:14.54 | unum | these guys were actually picked up by some media sites |
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| 19:48.13 | thebigdog | just not do it under windows |
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| 19:48.44 | thebigdog | what is said is how many people do not understand the judicial system |
| 19:49.07 | thebigdog | actually all three branches of government |
| 20:11.00 | unum | I didn't understand the judicial system until I took some polisci classes |
| 20:11.29 | unum | I took one that was taught by the current head of the utah parole board, that one really open my eyes |
| 20:34.27 | beandog | has anyone ever gotten atom feeds to work with CSS |
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| 20:34.29 | beandog | I can't figger this out. |
| 20:35.40 | utahcon | are you trying to style the atom feed directly? |
| 20:36.02 | beandog | uh |
| 20:36.04 | beandog | I dunno |
| 20:37.37 | utahcon | It would seem to me (with no knowledge on the topic) that you could style atom feeds with XSL being that atom is XML. |
| 20:37.41 | utahcon | But I don't know for sure. |
| 20:37.47 | utahcon | What have you tried exaclty? |
| 20:38.28 | beandog | <?xml-stylesheet href="atom.css" type="text/css"?> |
| 20:38.34 | beandog | that |
| 20:38.45 | beandog | I can't really find much relevant stuff on the matter, at all |
| 20:38.48 | beandog | Im just stabbing in the dark here |
| 20:41.05 | utahcon | have you seen this one? http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_xsl.asp |
| 20:41.28 | utahcon | That is xml + xslt |
| 20:41.34 | utahcon | I haven't seen anything with xml+css |
| 20:41.48 | utahcon | then again http://www.w3schools.com/Xml/xml_display.asp |
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| 20:46.32 | beandog | oh alright, thanks |
| 20:46.35 | beandog | was lookign for the wrong stuff |
| 20:47.21 | thebigdog | beandog, what are you trying to do? |
| 20:47.46 | beandog | thebigdog, atom feed with pretty HTML |
| 20:47.58 | thebigdog | with xslt or css? |
| 20:48.37 | beandog | I'd rather do CSS |
| 20:55.57 | thebigdog | that link utahcon gave is pretty decent |
| 20:56.11 | utahcon | it happens |
| 20:56.12 | thebigdog | if you need help let me know i have done a lot with xml transformations |
| 20:57.33 | beandog | well, XML, CSS and XSLT all give me a headache, so I think Im just gonna skip it. |
| 20:59.35 | thebigdog | haha it is not that difficult |
| 20:59.42 | thebigdog | espcially css |
| 20:59.49 | thebigdog | if you have pretty simple xml |
| 21:00.05 | thebigdog | gets complicated when you want logic in your transformation |
| 21:00.26 | beandog | no, its nothing like that |
| 21:00.42 | beandog | it's just CSS I've inherited. I don't even know what that part is doing. So I'd have to go back and clean that up and *then* transform it. |
| 21:00.48 | beandog | Nah, its just too much of a headache. It can wait. |
| 21:05.12 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 21:05.24 | thebigdog | well if you have a question i can help out if you need it |
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| 22:00.24 | carmony | lol, you guys would die, but I almost had to make a shopping cart like system using SOAP and XSLT |
| 22:00.52 | carmony | until I convinced my boss, who knew nothing about web dev, that it was insanse and no one would buy it |
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| 22:07.43 | thebigdog | but that is all presentation though |
| 22:08.07 | thebigdog | but soap calls to the same server is kinda crazy |
| 22:08.25 | xtrementl | how so? |
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| 22:12.01 | thebigdog | you should already have access to your data on your own server...no need to go through another layer of abstraction for simple calls...unless you are acessing a different technology like java or something |
| 22:12.29 | brasto | jbot, gimme something good to eat |
| 22:12.29 | jbot | ACTION gets brasto's something good to eat |
| 22:12.37 | xtrementl | true point.. perhaps like you mentioned it's a presentation thing. If you wanted to change out the underlying data used to store that info |
| 22:12.49 | xtrementl | but the interface (be that soap or xmlrpc, etc) would remain the same |
| 22:13.14 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 22:13.42 | xtrementl | or even.. if you later moved the storage off your own server at a later time.. would be a trivial change |
| 22:14.05 | DexterTheDragon | but so would a database connection |
| 22:14.11 | xtrementl | right |
| 22:14.36 | thebigdog | but you are right in that for a shopping cart you really dont want to be using soap |
| 22:14.46 | xtrementl | def not |
| 22:14.52 | thebigdog | imho unless you are sending info to 3rd parties |
| 22:15.23 | thebigdog | just the transaction aspect i would not want to deal with |
| 22:15.33 | thebigdog | we are doing some transactions in soap and they are a pain |
| 22:15.41 | thebigdog | security in soap can be a pain too |
| 22:15.48 | xtrementl | over ssl? |
| 22:16.05 | thebigdog | user logins and such |
| 22:16.27 | thebigdog | credentials, access and auths |
| 22:16.34 | xtrementl | true.. especially if you had to keep an auth protocol which you'd pass for each call thereafter |
| 22:16.47 | xtrementl | well the result of the authentication that is |
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| 22:39.53 | mgeary | ~wake thebigdog |
| 22:39.53 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on thebigdog and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 22:40.44 | orsonj | ~wash thebigdog |
| 22:40.44 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on thebigdog and says "That was for the smell" |
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| 23:05.52 | beandog | what the crack |
| 23:05.55 | beandog | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UevBVGMap4&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div |
| 23:06.01 | beandog | mindjuju, you remember that? |
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| 23:39.49 | tonedevf | dude |
| 23:40.10 | tonedevf | crazy male teenage fantasy |
| 23:42.15 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 23:43.48 | orsonj | I suspect the turning into a car thing. |
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