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| 14:42.25 | mindjuju | sup Utah_Dave, how was turkey day? |
| 14:42.56 | Utah_Dave | pretty good! Laid back. How about you? |
| 14:43.11 | mindjuju | about the same, made rosemary and garlic turkey |
| 14:43.21 | mindjuju | hey, you do some complex sql stuff, no? |
| 14:45.01 | Utah_Dave | sometimes! |
| 14:45.06 | Utah_Dave | what are you trying to do? |
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| 15:53.41 | PoeticIntensity | morning |
| 15:53.44 | PoeticIntensity | ~morning |
| 15:53.45 | jbot | Good morning! |
| 15:53.54 | mindjuju | morning PoeticIntensity |
| 15:54.03 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (n=sparky@173.8.91.177) |
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| 15:54.07 | PoeticIntensity | enjoy a good Thanksgiving, mindjuju ? |
| 15:54.07 | mindjuju | i trust things are Poetically Intense this morning? |
| 15:54.11 | PoeticIntensity | hehe.... |
| 15:54.17 | PoeticIntensity | quite the opposite, actually. |
| 15:54.25 | mindjuju | yeah, made a 29lb turkey on Thursday |
| 15:54.26 | PoeticIntensity | barely awake and functional. |
| 15:54.31 | mindjuju | rosemary and garlic |
| 15:54.32 | PoeticIntensity | awesome! |
| 15:54.34 | mindjuju | twas yum |
| 15:54.36 | PoeticIntensity | mmmmm...... |
| 15:55.11 | mindjuju | what about you? |
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| 16:20.17 | mgeary | ~gobble |
| 16:20.17 | jbot | ACTION gobble-gobbles |
| 16:20.51 | mindjuju | sup mgeary |
| 16:23.21 | Utah_Dave | ping herlo |
| 16:24.37 | Utah_Dave | anybody mess with Fedora 10 yet? |
| 16:25.08 | mindjuju | nope, but we have a launchparty this saturday |
| 16:25.21 | mindjuju | UTOS does, and it's goign to be at BGM where are meets are |
| 16:26.05 | Utah_Dave | hm |
| 16:26.32 | mindjuju | you know you want to go |
| 16:26.38 | mindjuju | hang out with all the cool kids |
| 16:26.56 | mindjuju | jbot, officially invite utah_dave to the UTOS installfest |
| 16:27.14 | mindjuju | ~invite utah_dave to the UTOS installfest |
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| 16:28.22 | mindjuju | sup Fungus, how was the tofurkey ? |
| 16:30.25 | fungus | it was great. |
| 16:30.32 | mindjuju | :) |
| 16:36.14 | mindjuju | so fungus et al., if you wanted to make a new media server, and you wanted to start with 2T but be able to expand, would you opt for a low cost server from Dell like the T105 and slam SATAs in it, or would you opt NAS |
| 16:36.19 | mindjuju | and why? |
| 16:37.09 | mindjuju | currently, my media server is at 1.5T (10 yr old Dell with PATA drives in it) |
| 16:37.29 | mindjuju | i wish i could have a drovo |
| 16:37.41 | mindjuju | drobo, but at $1000+ can't be done |
| 16:37.49 | mindjuju | i need to stay under $500 if possible |
| 16:37.53 | mindjuju | else, no dice |
| 16:38.10 | *** join/#uphpu cro (n=cro@c-67-186-228-90.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:38.12 | mindjuju | what do you think mgeary, go NAS or go server? |
| 16:38.40 | mgeary | well, you can get the drobo device for ~450, can't you? |
| 16:38.46 | herlo | Utah_Dave: pong |
| 16:38.49 | mgeary | and then just add SATA drives according to your budget |
| 16:39.09 | mgeary | however, if you need more than 1.5TB out of the gate, i guess that may be tricky |
| 16:39.40 | mgeary | with 4 1-TB drives, the Drobo gives you about 2.7 TB of usable space, but that'd add another ~$400 to your budget, not? |
| 16:40.11 | mgeary | of course, i have absolutely zero experience with NAS |
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| 16:42.03 | mgeary | ~diff SAN NAS |
| 16:42.04 | jbot | ACTION carefully examines SAN and NAS.... "they're dead, Jim" |
| 16:42.22 | mindjuju | so does the drobo have an ethernet port or is it strictly firewire or usb? |
| 16:43.24 | mindjuju | i *think* a SAN (storage area network) is a series of servers with storage capacity, where a NAS (network attached server) is barely a computer with an ethernet port and drives |
| 16:43.26 | fungus | SAN = Storage Area Network, separate network, often FiberChannel, that contains one or more storage devices |
| 16:43.56 | fungus | NAS = Network Attached Storage, storage device directly attached to the network |
| 16:44.26 | mindjuju | I do know though that a NAS is suppose to be lower power consumption and cycles everything down when not in use |
| 16:44.44 | mindjuju | course though, who knows the power savings? |
| 16:45.14 | mindjuju | so what you think there fungus, go server with beefy SATA drives or NAS? |
| 16:45.22 | fungus | SAN gear will generally use more power due to it's high performance enterprisey nature |
| 16:45.37 | mindjuju | functionality > geek street cred |
| 16:46.06 | fungus | Depends on your price |
| 16:46.15 | mindjuju | 2T below $500 |
| 16:46.17 | mindjuju | hopefully |
| 16:46.33 | fungus | server + drives = lots of power, might be cheap if you have the server already |
| 16:46.59 | mindjuju | well, here is the deal, i am currently using a dell precession 220 |
| 16:47.04 | mindjuju | so it's like 10 yrs old |
| 16:47.04 | fungus | NAS appliance (like drobo) about $500 w/o drives, low power |
| 16:47.07 | mindjuju | well, prolly older |
| 16:47.19 | mindjuju | cause i bought it used |
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| 16:47.42 | fungus | CPU and memory in a fileserver is generally not important |
| 16:47.53 | mindjuju | true |
| 16:48.09 | mindjuju | was thinking more about wear though |
| 16:48.27 | fungus | SATA300/SATAII is important however |
| 16:48.53 | mgeary | even if you're only running 100MBps? |
| 16:49.08 | mgeary | seems like the network would be the bottleneck, not the drive speed |
| 16:49.12 | mindjuju | maybe i should just replace the power supply and keep old trusty in play? course though, as I expand clients at home, it would be good to have SATA |
| 16:49.43 | mindjuju | mgeary, have 2 computers and 2 xboxes and i have only tested 3 clients at the same time, it was ok |
| 16:49.50 | mindjuju | but wasn't checking network traffic |
| 16:49.55 | mindjuju | i should, just to see |
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| 16:51.11 | fungus | mgeary: true, but as you add more clients, it becomes more important for the drives to be faster. |
| 16:51.46 | fungus | Also makes the transition to gigabit networks more interesting. |
| 16:52.49 | mindjuju | and servers --> primary switch |
| 16:54.17 | itimber | morning guys |
| 16:54.19 | fungus | If you are buying anything new, I would suggest gigabit whenever it is w/in budget. |
| 16:54.44 | fungus | Existing hardware, just use what you got, it can be replaced later. |
| 16:56.56 | DexterTheDragon | So if I was going to build a file server what mobo/cpu would you guys recommend? |
| 16:57.34 | fungus | Whatever is cheap that has onboard gigabit, and SATAII support |
| 16:57.47 | fungus | Which is just about every mobo available. |
| 16:58.08 | DexterTheDragon | any brands you like better than others? |
| 16:58.26 | mindjuju | i've had good luck with ASUS and Gigabyte |
| 16:58.42 | mindjuju | ^5 fungus on Asus |
| 17:00.35 | mindjuju | on the other hand though, dexterthedragon, i've been thinking about this dell dimension i've had, 10 years, no prob |
| 17:00.42 | mindjuju | i'm thinking of going dell T105 |
| 17:01.06 | mindjuju | course though, there is a big difference in dell 10 yrs ago and dell now |
| 17:01.42 | mindjuju | and i think the T105 only has space for 2 drives, so that would sux |
| 17:06.29 | Utah_Dave | herlo, I'm having problems installing Fedora 10 on one of my servers. |
| 17:06.37 | Utah_Dave | Fedora 8 just installed on it no problem. |
| 17:06.39 | Utah_Dave | :( |
| 17:14.00 | mindjuju | that said, dexterthedragon, check newegg, they're having the CyberMonday sale today |
| 17:14.13 | mindjuju | haven't had a chance to look at it closely, just know it's ontoday |
| 17:18.49 | herlo | Utah_Dave: what's happening? |
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| 17:22.56 | cro | buy.com, ThinkGeek, and zipzoomfly.com are having CyberMonday sales too |
| 17:39.10 | SunSparc | Anyone here know Joomla well enough to get paid to teach someone in management how to use it? |
| 17:41.21 | mindjuju | that's awesome cro! I've always wanted to buy this, but never wanted to fork over $10 shipping on a $10 item! /me mulls things to buy at thinkgeek |
| 17:41.29 | mindjuju | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8c52/ |
| 17:44.57 | SunSparc | mindjuju: I expect to read some detailed reports on your successful usage of that device. |
| 17:44.58 | SunSparc | ;) |
| 17:46.26 | mindjuju | :) |
| 17:47.41 | Utah_Dave | herlo: anaconda doesn't recognize the keyboard and mouse on our rack's kvm. Then when I finally get the install done, it can't find or mount the partitions it created during the install |
| 17:48.00 | Utah_Dave | Fedora 8 worked flawlessly. I'm not sure what's causing the issues. |
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| 18:01.41 | carmony | good morning |
| 18:19.50 | herlo | Utah_Dave: try not using the gui |
| 18:20.01 | herlo | use 'linux text' on the anaconda command line |
| 18:21.44 | Utah_Dave | herlo, ok, I'll give that a try |
| 18:37.29 | herlo | Utah_Dave: let me know if you have further problems |
| 18:42.44 | mindjuju | and Utah_Dave, set aside some time on Sat for the fedora install fest! |
| 18:44.43 | carmony | I've never been to an install fest |
| 18:44.46 | carmony | what do you do? : |
| 18:44.47 | carmony | :P |
| 18:46.22 | mindjuju | sit around with tea and crumpets |
| 18:46.25 | SunSparc | Install |
| 18:46.32 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:47.20 | carmony | lol |
| 18:47.34 | SunSparc | It is a gathering where you can install Linux (or other stuff) and get help if you need it, or give help if you can. |
| 18:47.45 | carmony | sounds cool |
| 18:47.54 | SunSparc | Yeah, good times, for geeks. |
| 18:48.32 | mindjuju | stop, drop and roll |
| 18:48.38 | SunSparc | ~extinguish carmony |
| 18:48.41 | carmony | I've been burning through my task list like fire through san diego.... |
| 18:48.54 | SunSparc | Wow, that is hot and quick |
| 18:49.12 | carmony | my dad's house was sooooo close to getting burned |
| 18:49.17 | SunSparc | You can do mine when you get done with yours. |
| 18:49.25 | carmony | the last house that burnt in his area was 1 block away |
| 18:49.32 | SunSparc | Yikes |
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| 19:14.54 | mgeary | hey, isn't there a way to make so that anything put into folder X receives the same permissions as folder X? |
| 19:15.01 | mgeary | some sort of sticky bit? |
| 19:21.18 | _psychic_ | umask |
| 19:21.38 | mgeary | can you set a umask on a folder, though? I thought it was a user-level thing |
| 19:22.15 | tierra | the sticky bit is for assigning the same group ownership for files/folders created below the folder with the sticky bit set |
| 19:22.41 | tierra | but yes, that's usually used in combination with UMASK in /etc/login.defs |
| 19:23.00 | mgeary | yeah, i know that the traditional sticky bit won't do what i want. Just thought maybe there was another cool bit like that |
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| 19:26.38 | macnewbold | ~yow |
| 19:29.05 | mgeary | macnewbold: ever since i made jbot "gobble", he's been a bit unresponsive. Probably too much turkey |
| 19:29.05 | SunSparc | jbot, if (user == macnewbold) { $responses = null; } |
| 19:29.09 | mgeary | ~gobble |
| 19:29.09 | jbot | ACTION gobble-gobbles |
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| 19:31.21 | mindjuju | when he gobbles, he should also be trained to do the funky chicken |
| 19:31.27 | mindjuju | even though he is imitating a turkey |
| 19:31.34 | mindjuju | it's fowl and therefore works |
| 19:31.35 | mgeary | no, that should be ~cluck |
| 19:45.36 | SunSparc | Great memories from tune. I used to love watching that flick. |
| 19:55.45 | SunSparc | "that" tune |
| 20:11.31 | carmony | lol |
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| 20:23.10 | thebigdog | afternoon all |
| 20:23.10 | mgeary | how are ya, thebigdog? |
| 20:23.10 | SunSparc | yo |
| 20:23.13 | thebigdog | doing good |
| 20:23.17 | mgeary | you've got some snickerdoodle crumbs on your beard there |
| 20:23.20 | thebigdog | getting back into the work thing |
| 20:23.25 | thebigdog | ty i know |
| 20:23.46 | thebigdog | i love them snickerdoodles and pies |
| 20:23.54 | Utah_Dave | thebigdog: you gotta check out gmote.org |
| 20:24.31 | thebigdog | let me check it out Utah_Dave |
| 20:24.35 | mindjuju | what the heck is a snickerdoodle? |
| 20:24.36 | thebigdog | i think i have seen it before |
| 20:24.43 | mindjuju | poo from a snickers bar? |
| 20:24.51 | thebigdog | yes |
| 20:24.52 | Utah_Dave | I just started using gmote. it's awesome. |
| 20:24.55 | thebigdog | and they are very good |
| 20:25.19 | mindjuju | you're sick thebigdog |
| 20:25.44 | thebigdog | mindjuju, they are cookeis |
| 20:26.00 | thebigdog | ~wiki snickerdoodle |
| 20:26.02 | SunSparc | mindjuju: have you really never heard of a snickerdoodle? |
| 20:26.14 | mindjuju | or something good |
| 20:26.30 | mindjuju | cream of tartar? |
| 20:26.38 | mindjuju | like the stuff they use in tartar sauce? |
| 20:26.41 | mindjuju | in a cookie? |
| 20:26.44 | mindjuju | nasty! |
| 20:26.57 | mindjuju | do you eat the cookie with kippers or something? |
| 20:26.57 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:27.53 | Utah_Dave | hey, mindjuju. listen to this |
| 20:28.27 | Utah_Dave | USB devices are no longer allowed on military computers |
| 20:29.13 | Utah_Dave | So now the IT personnel above us are telling us to buy firewire drives instead |
| 20:29.23 | Utah_Dave | because they aren't "USB" |
| 20:29.24 | mindjuju | oh, that's awesome |
| 20:29.30 | Utah_Dave | isn't it? |
| 20:29.35 | mindjuju | heh |
| 20:29.40 | mindjuju | rofl |
| 20:29.45 | mindjuju | that's freakin awesome |
| 20:30.11 | SunSparc | Sweet! |
| 20:30.19 | SunSparc | Government support of Firewire. |
| 20:30.24 | Utah_Dave | yeah, I feel so much safer |
| 20:30.29 | SunSparc | Utah_Dave: what was the reasoning? |
| 20:30.38 | mgeary | Firewire >>>> USB |
| 20:30.44 | mgeary | so that's great |
| 20:30.48 | mindjuju | for the politically minded geeks in the house - an interesting perspective in the Lori Drew (myspace bully) case - 100% no rickroll guarantee - http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081128005538214 |
| 20:30.52 | Utah_Dave | You can save a lot of data onto a usb drive. |
| 20:31.06 | mgeary | FW places a much lower load on the CPU |
| 20:31.10 | Utah_Dave | plus they're afraid of some Russian hacker who wrote a virus or something |
| 20:32.04 | mindjuju | of particular note, the argument against drew in using the EULA + CPAA against her |
| 20:32.11 | SunSparc | Oh brother |
| 20:32.49 | mindjuju | firewire is suppose to have unfettered access to the RAM or something like that, hence the RAM password exploit |
| 20:33.09 | mindjuju | about groklaw, it's an interesting read, recommend reading it |
| 20:34.37 | mindjuju | for those who don't know lori drew - sad story about a girl committing suicide -allegedly from result of bullying on myspace - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Drew |
| 20:35.43 | SunSparc | Bullying from an Internet web page? Sounds like there were probably other issues. |
| 20:36.38 | mindjuju | well, there was, but recommend reading from mentioned sources as opposed to me blabering what i think |
| 20:36.50 | mindjuju | else my opinion comes through |
| 20:37.06 | mindjuju | wiki treats it pretty faiirly i think |
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| 20:53.18 | unum | the weird thing to me is that the bully was like 40 years old |
| 20:53.25 | herlo | mindjuju: did I tell you about getting rickrolled for the thanksgiving day parade? |
| 20:53.34 | herlo | macy's day parade even |
| 20:53.35 | unum | seriously don't you have anything better to do with your time besides picking on your teenage neighbor |
| 20:53.50 | mindjuju | unum - totally agree |
| 20:54.22 | mindjuju | and yet, by prosecuting it the way the did, it elevates the EULA to the status of Law |
| 20:54.31 | mindjuju | v dangerous |
| 20:54.44 | mindjuju | which is the topic groklaw is focusing on |
| 20:55.05 | unum | mindjuju: I agree |
| 20:55.06 | mindjuju | herlo - was watching Macy's parade when that happened |
| 20:55.19 | mindjuju | had some kind of muppet something or imagineary pets or something |
| 20:55.23 | mindjuju | and then he came out |
| 20:55.32 | mindjuju | awesome rickroll! |
| 20:55.38 | unum | I think it's one of those cases where people want to punish someone so they apply the law to fit the crime rather than the law |
| 20:56.24 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 20:56.34 | mindjuju | i'm not sure what the right thing to do is |
| 20:56.34 | SunSparc | Those pets or something were Fosters Imaginary Friends: http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/fosters/ |
| 20:58.47 | mindjuju | looked interesting |
| 20:58.50 | mindjuju | i should check it out |
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| 21:01.41 | herlo | mindjuju: it was awesome! |
| 21:02.47 | mindjuju | :) |
| 21:03.26 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (n=mac@166.70.178.114) |
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| 21:03.26 | mindjuju | herlo, are you serious? |
| 21:03.47 | SunSparc | herlo, are you talking about Foster's? |
| 21:05.16 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (n=mac@166.70.178.114) |
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| 21:11.57 | herlo | mindjuju: about what? |
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| 21:28.11 | thebigdog | mindjuju, quit bulling me |
| 21:28.32 | mindjuju | ~poo thebigdog |
| 21:28.32 | jbot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at thebigdog |
| 21:28.40 | mindjuju | now sniff it |
| 21:28.48 | thebigdog | ~tunafart mindjuju |
| 21:28.49 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to mindjuju, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 21:29.13 | thebigdog | mac loves that stuff |
| 21:29.48 | mindjuju | yeah, but i think he likes his own blend, not somebody else's |
| 21:31.50 | thebigdog | herlo, i thought you were moving |
| 21:32.08 | herlo | thebigdog: heh, depends |
| 21:32.17 | thebigdog | so a new job and moving |
| 21:32.18 | mindjuju | yeah, moving to get away from your constant tunafarts |
| 21:32.21 | thebigdog | or |
| 21:32.32 | thebigdog | well they are bad no |
| 21:32.36 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 21:32.46 | mindjuju | k, no more gabbing for me until i get this proj done |
| 21:32.49 | mindjuju | bbl |
| 21:32.54 | thebigdog | yeah sure |
| 21:33.01 | mindjuju | ~punch thebigdog |
| 21:33.01 | jbot | ACTION lets fly with a wild haymaker which catches thebigdog right on the nose |
| 21:33.04 | thebigdog | mindjuju, is the biggest gabby person in here |
| 21:33.10 | mindjuju | nerd |
| 21:33.13 | thebigdog | ~fart mindjuju |
| 21:33.14 | jbot | ACTION farts in mindjuju's general direction |
| 21:33.26 | mindjuju | same fan deflects toward macnewbold |
| 21:33.28 | mindjuju | k, bye |
| 21:33.33 | herlo | thebigdog: well, moving was going to be about a year off, but this might be the opportunity I was waiting for |
| 21:33.40 | herlo | just kind of nervous, you know |
| 21:33.44 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 21:34.01 | thebigdog | it is not a good time to sell but to buy i think it is good if you can find the deals |
| 21:34.11 | thebigdog | one thing i have noticed is that you can get a great price |
| 21:34.15 | herlo | so if you have something that is local that I can do in the mean time, don't hesitate to ask :) |
| 21:34.20 | thebigdog | however, banks are not to open for the best rates yet |
| 21:34.29 | herlo | no, but FHA is |
| 21:34.33 | herlo | 5.5% |
| 21:34.38 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 21:35.00 | thebigdog | i bet if you take your time and look you can get something |
| 21:35.15 | thebigdog | when is you last day? |
| 21:35.31 | herlo | today |
| 21:35.38 | thebigdog | you just tired of traveling? |
| 21:35.41 | herlo | but we're getting a pretty good severance |
| 21:35.46 | herlo | no, they layed me off |
| 21:36.21 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 21:36.26 | herlo | yeah |
| 21:36.27 | thebigdog | that blows |
| 21:36.51 | thebigdog | just not enough work...IT is always the first to go in enterprise |
| 21:37.10 | unum | herlo: where were you working |
| 21:37.26 | herlo | unum: Guru Labs |
| 21:37.35 | unum | that's what Ithought.... |
| 21:37.54 | unum | I do believe training is one of the first things to go |
| 21:38.32 | herlo | yeah, but this is extenuating circumstances regarding the training |
| 21:40.45 | thebigdog | has training really dropped that much? |
| 21:43.38 | herlo | well, we lost the Red Hat account altogether, that's the biggest different |
| 21:43.41 | herlo | difference |
| 21:44.17 | unum | ouch |
| 21:45.39 | herlo | that's been the case for a while now, GL has contracts with other big companies but they aren't ramping up as fast. |
| 21:45.51 | herlo | due to the economy it seems |
| 21:47.34 | mgeary | sorry to hear that, herlo |
| 21:49.02 | herlo | it's okay, just send me job leads :) |
| 21:52.26 | mgeary | well, did Omniture fill the void left by wps yet? They had another php dev spot open for months as well |
| 21:52.29 | carmony | where do you live herlo? |
| 21:53.03 | DexterTheDragon | wps left Omniture? |
| 21:53.16 | herlo | murray |
| 21:53.17 | mgeary | yeap |
| 21:53.37 | DexterTheDragon | wow I've been out of the loop |
| 21:55.08 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: what loop? |
| 21:55.22 | herlo | oh, that loop |
| 21:55.23 | mindjuju | do while loop |
| 21:55.30 | herlo | lol |
| 21:55.58 | herlo | mgeary: I don't have much interest in being a php dev full time. I'm an okay dev, but I think I'm better as a SA or People person :) |
| 21:56.09 | mgeary | ah, sure |
| 21:56.25 | mgeary | "I have people skills!" |
| 21:56.26 | herlo | I enjoy development, don't get me wrong, but I like it at my own pace |
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| 21:56.41 | herlo | mgeary: the office space moments aren't lost on me |
| 21:56.51 | mgeary | ;) |
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| 22:56.08 | *** topic/#UPHPU by thebigdog -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 23:04.13 | thebigdog | i think that is all i am good for is changing the topic |
| 23:08.17 | herlo | orly? |
| 23:17.48 | thebigdog | i guess |
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| 23:42.57 | itimber | I'm out.... later guys |
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| 23:59.54 | beandog | my brain is fried |