| 00:02.22 | carmony | I saw that |
| 00:02.25 | carmony | very low |
| 00:03.21 | mgeary | it is a very charged issue |
| 00:03.39 | wps | indeed |
| 00:03.47 | wps | consider Steve Young |
| 00:04.09 | mgeary | ? |
| 00:04.11 | wps | how hard would it be to have your spouse on the other side of the issue |
| 00:04.14 | mgeary | ah |
| 00:05.25 | wps | his wife make a public statement that their family would be voting against the proposition and Steve had to come out and clarify that that did not include him necessarily |
| 00:05.27 | SunSparc | carmony: You in? |
| 00:06.32 | mgeary | Steve Young's wife is LDS, though, yes? |
| 00:06.41 | wps | yes, she is LDS |
| 00:06.47 | mgeary | don't have a problem either way, but that's interesting |
| 00:06.55 | wps | her only sibling is gay though, so she is against the prop |
| 00:07.02 | mgeary | aha |
| 00:08.13 | wps | I love the customizable keyboard shortcuts in System Preferences |
| 00:12.01 | wps | itimber, how did you install IE on crossover? |
| 00:12.08 | wps | just find a standalone installer somewhere on the net? |
| 00:13.12 | itimber | it was actually in the list |
| 00:13.22 | wps | lsit? |
| 00:13.24 | wps | list? |
| 00:13.28 | itimber | and downloaded the installer from the web |
| 00:13.31 | itimber | ya... 1 sec |
| 00:14.25 | itimber | top menu -> Configure -> Install Software |
| 00:14.28 | itimber | it shows a list |
| 00:14.44 | itimber | pick IE 6 |
| 00:14.55 | itimber | Continue |
| 00:15.10 | wps | thanks |
| 00:15.20 | itimber | np |
| 00:15.31 | wps | I'm trying out installing Visio |
| 00:15.34 | wps | we'll see how this goes |
| 00:16.30 | itimber | ya... some apps are supported more than others |
| 00:16.52 | itimber | but I installed an Unsupported app (PCMiler) and it worked flawlessly |
| 00:28.56 | wps | this is freaking awesome |
| 00:29.00 | wps | it totally works |
| 00:30.48 | itimber | cool, huh |
| 00:30.54 | itimber | I gotta run.... late |
| 00:32.26 | wps | does crossover not have IE 7? |
| 00:33.28 | mindjuju | didn't google pack have an antivirus client and something for spyware? |
| 00:47.55 | tierra | I think they used to include AVG |
| 00:49.34 | tierra | ah, click the "add more" on the page, and it opens up checkboxes for "Spyware Doctor", and "Norton Security Scan" |
| 00:50.24 | tierra | I'm kinda surprised they didn't replace Firefox with Chrome |
| 00:50.34 | mindjuju | awesome! |
| 00:50.38 | mindjuju | i wondered where it was |
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| 02:48.11 | mindjuju | sup Utah_Dave |
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| 02:51.44 | Utah_Dave | hey, mindjuju |
| 02:51.58 | Utah_Dave | just chilling, watching boring election news |
| 02:52.33 | mindjuju | hows it looking? |
| 02:53.20 | Utah_Dave | Obama seems to have quite a lead so far. |
| 02:53.48 | mindjuju | yeah, on the electoral, it looks like that, though on the pop, they look close |
| 02:55.04 | mindjuju | i'm wondering though, why are they declaring most of these states as decided, for both candidates, i mean |
| 02:55.32 | mindjuju | like michigan, it yahoo reports obama winning it, but only 17% of the counties reporting |
| 02:55.33 | Utah_Dave | true |
| 02:56.00 | mindjuju | are they saying nobody lives in the other 83%? |
| 02:56.13 | Utah_Dave | I wish they'd pass a law where all ballot counts can't be released until all polling centers have closed. And ban exit polls |
| 02:56.22 | mindjuju | yup |
| 02:56.28 | Utah_Dave | when the votes are all counted, release the results. |
| 02:56.40 | Utah_Dave | The newscasters are nauseating |
| 02:56.42 | mindjuju | on mccain, they gave him arkansas even though only 9% precints reporting |
| 02:56.47 | mindjuju | yeah, i bet |
| 02:58.31 | Utah_Dave | I'm in D.C. and it's dead here. I think all the big parties are in Chicago and Arizona |
| 02:59.23 | mindjuju | its very remineiscent of the 2004 elections when Kerry was shown to be winning, then some of the blue went red, and then Pres Bush won |
| 02:59.54 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, I think it might be closer once we get closer to the end |
| 03:00.45 | Utah_Dave | NBC just projected obama winning Iowa |
| 03:04.50 | mindjuju | utah_dave - this is interesting - http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/ballot.measures/ |
| 03:05.07 | mindjuju | amazing to see how many measures there are against affirmative action |
| 03:08.09 | Utah_Dave | me neither. I think it's the wrong solution, plus it's kind of racist |
| 03:10.02 | Utah_Dave | I think the real solution if a minority kid isn't getting a good enough education to get into college is to fix the schools they're going to. |
| 03:12.15 | mindjuju | schools should certainly be fixed, there is no doubt on that, but even the best of schools have drop outs, the child though always decides though, if they will be successful or no |
| 03:13.16 | Utah_Dave | yeah. |
| 03:20.27 | mindjuju | well, i've got to code out a bunch of stuff so i'm going to drop the poll stuff and put on a movie, nothing critical is going to happen in the next 2 hrs |
| 03:23.13 | Utah_Dave | very true. |
| 03:23.16 | Utah_Dave | Have fun! |
| 03:23.40 | mindjuju | yup, now if something unexpected does happen, be sure to IM me |
| 03:29.38 | Utah_Dave | dude, check this out, mindjuju. http://www.superdellforgovernor.com/donate.asp |
| 03:30.05 | Utah_Dave | He had donations totalling $12.02! |
| 03:30.43 | mindjuju | now that's funny! |
| 03:31.07 | Utah_Dave | yeah, I actually laughed out loud |
| 03:31.25 | Utah_Dave | sorry to interrupt you, I just had to pass that on |
| 03:31.33 | mindjuju | nope, you're not bothering me |
| 03:31.48 | mindjuju | i'm just coding some simple stuff |
| 03:32.09 | mindjuju | i just had to stop looking at the election stuff |
| 03:32.13 | mindjuju | it can get obsessing |
| 03:32.19 | mindjuju | but funny stuff like that is cool |
| 03:34.52 | Utah_Dave | k |
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| 04:04.10 | mindjuju | anybody know about any classes that create passwords that are easy to remember? |
| 04:04.25 | mindjuju | like a m0nk3y type password |
| 04:05.00 | mindjuju | or something else, that is easy to see and speak |
| 04:05.05 | mindjuju | but complex enough to be safe |
| 04:05.06 | DexterTheDragon | like in php? |
| 04:05.46 | mindjuju | yup |
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| 04:06.14 | mindjuju | i'm googling now, but just wanted something recommended |
| 04:06.40 | DexterTheDragon | don't know of any php classes. I use a linux utility called pwgen to do that |
| 04:08.03 | mindjuju | cool, there are classes that have the phrase pwgen |
| 04:08.08 | mindjuju | hopefully offering the same functionality |
| 04:08.26 | mindjuju | thx DexterTheDragon |
| 04:08.33 | mindjuju | ~DexterTheDragon++ |
| 04:08.38 | DexterTheDragon | sweet |
| 04:08.59 | DexterTheDragon | ~karma DexterTheDragon |
| 04:08.59 | jbot | dexterthedragon has karma of 3 |
| 04:09.08 | DexterTheDragon | cool |
| 04:16.26 | Utah_Dave | CNN just said Obama has won the election. |
| 04:16.38 | mindjuju | really? |
| 04:17.03 | mindjuju | does it look like it'll be close or pretty clear win? |
| 04:17.48 | DexterTheDragon | cnn has the numbers at Obama 297, McCain 139 |
| 04:18.16 | Utah_Dave | yeah, clear win |
| 04:18.25 | wps | although only two of the seven battleground states have reported |
| 04:18.48 | mindjuju | on the electoral college... well, if that is accurate,t hen i'm glad it is a clear win |
| 04:19.16 | wps | McCain is conceding right now |
| 04:19.26 | wps | speaking right now from Arizona |
| 04:21.56 | mindjuju | hmmm... good speech |
| 04:33.56 | mindjuju | well good, i'm glad it ended that way, this country needs it |
| 04:34.08 | beandog | he did? |
| 04:34.09 | beandog | woots |
| 04:34.23 | wps | regardless of the outcome, I am glad this thing is over |
| 04:34.24 | beandog | I guess I dont have to wait up til 5 a.m. to see who wins |
| 04:34.36 | mindjuju | :) |
| 04:35.06 | mindjuju | yeah, no doubt |
| 04:35.07 | beandog | I heard Utah had a 98% democrat vote |
| 04:35.26 | beandog | maybe it was Texas. |
| 04:35.35 | mindjuju | too funny |
| 04:36.19 | wps | so I am trying to verify that the HDD that came in my laptop is the one that I ordered |
| 04:36.25 | wps | it is supposed to be 7200 RPM |
| 04:36.26 | beandog | what I really wanna see is McCain give up but let Palin keep fighting |
| 04:36.36 | beandog | just have her shove him out of the way and take over |
| 04:36.40 | beandog | that'd be interesting. |
| 04:36.43 | wps | I think McCain is done with politics |
| 04:36.57 | wps | he mentioned resting now in his concession speech |
| 04:38.05 | wps | when I look in the system profiler, it says "3 Gigabit" as the speed of the drive |
| 04:38.10 | wps | what does that mean? |
| 04:39.23 | mindjuju | i woder if that means 3 Gbps |
| 04:39.25 | DexterTheDragon | My guess would be that is SATA 3Gb/s |
| 04:39.27 | mindjuju | like the SATA speed |
| 04:39.28 | mindjuju | yup |
| 04:39.43 | mindjuju | i don't know what the rpm is, but i think that is the fastest |
| 04:39.46 | wps | so that is the data transfer speed, not the RPM |
| 04:39.52 | mindjuju | yup |
| 04:40.36 | wps | hmmâ¦Â doesn't say RPM anywhere here |
| 04:40.51 | wps | I wonder if there is any way to confirm that without looking at the sticker on the drive |
| 04:40.58 | beandog | hdparm might say |
| 04:41.06 | beandog | oh wait Im on sata. |
| 04:41.35 | wps | this is SATA |
| 04:41.35 | beandog | just find out the drive model. |
| 04:41.46 | beandog | product: WDC WD2500KS-00M |
| 04:42.17 | wps | good idea |
| 04:42.19 | wps | Hitachi HTS723232L9SA62 |
| 04:42.43 | beandog | good grief thats a mouthful. |
| 04:43.04 | DexterTheDragon | only the S723232L9S part |
| 04:45.18 | mindjuju | looks like a 360g 7200rpm drive |
| 04:45.22 | mindjuju | is that the size of the drive? |
| 04:45.34 | wps | supposed to be 320 GB, 7200 RPM |
| 04:45.53 | mindjuju | oh, my bad, yup, 320g |
| 04:45.57 | DexterTheDragon | yay extra space? |
| 04:45.58 | mindjuju | just looked at it too fast |
| 04:45.59 | DexterTheDragon | oh |
| 04:46.06 | wps | where'd you find it, mindjuju ? |
| 04:46.12 | wps | my googling hasn't produced much |
| 04:46.37 | DexterTheDragon | please hold |
| 04:46.50 | DexterTheDragon | http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/15107 |
| 04:46.53 | mindjuju | well, first, I read that in order to google it, you have to remove the last 4 characters, the SA69 i think it wsa |
| 04:46.58 | mindjuju | vthen |
| 04:46.58 | mindjuju | Hitachi HTS723232L9SA62 |
| 04:47.15 | mindjuju | http://www.google.com/search?q=Hitachi+HTS723232L9&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1 |
| 04:47.16 | beandog | $154. Thats getting there. |
| 04:47.31 | wps | thanks |
| 04:47.48 | wps | I'm excited to run some heavy processing on this and see if I notice the faster drive |
| 04:47.50 | beandog | DexterTheDragon: I should listen to the voice of reason and wait out for WD |
| 04:48.00 | mindjuju | i heard the blackfriday sells are going to be crazy, maybe i can get a canon this year? |
| 04:48.25 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: building a pirate ship? |
| 04:48.32 | beandog | lol |
| 04:48.34 | beandog | arr |
| 04:48.37 | wps | :) |
| 04:48.42 | beandog | he's looking for a matey |
| 04:49.07 | wps | so glossy screen really sucks if you have a lamp behind you |
| 04:49.15 | wps | I am so torn on this new screen |
| 04:49.46 | wps | the gloss + LED is amazing, but the gloss glare/reflection sucks |
| 04:53.08 | mindjuju | man, i want a digital camera so bad! |
| 05:00.30 | Utah_Dave | obama is giving his speech |
| 05:16.02 | DexterTheDragon | good speech |
| 05:16.29 | wps | yupâ¦Â unfortunate |
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| 06:23.31 | wps | this new MBP runs significantly cooler |
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| 15:24.52 | mindjuju | morning all |
| 15:29.24 | jsmith | morning! |
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| 15:35.45 | dataw0lf | http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations |
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| 16:38.07 | mgeary | ahhhh, what a beautiful day |
| 16:39.09 | DexterTheDragon | YAY SNOW |
| 16:39.15 | mgeary | that too |
| 16:40.05 | SunSparc | ~lart snow |
| 16:40.05 | jbot | stamps snow on the forehead with the official Troll marker |
| 16:40.08 | dataw0lf | high five mgeary. high five. |
| 16:40.12 | mgeary | totally |
| 16:40.29 | mgeary | and props to McCain, he had class last night |
| 16:40.35 | mgeary | Palin can go jump in a lake |
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| 16:43.45 | dataw0lf | Yea, it certainly was a class act speech, but, honestly, too little too late. You can't run a horribly negative campaign and then make up for it with a classy speech at the end, sorry. |
| 16:44.44 | herlo | dataw0lf: thing is, as he has stated all along, he was pointing out the differences between them. It's not like Obama didn't put negative ads out as well... |
| 16:45.27 | dataw0lf | He wasn't just pointing out the differences between them. He essentially called Obama a terrorist and a socialist. He's neither. Obama never called McCain anything like that. |
| 16:45.51 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Sure he did... he called him George Bush :-p |
| 16:46.12 | dataw0lf | For Obama to have pulled a negative campaign like McCain, he would've had to make allusions that McCain assisted the North Vietnamese, or something. |
| 16:46.19 | herlo | dataw0lf: politics get nasty and I never heard that from McCain's mouth. |
| 16:47.30 | dataw0lf | See, that type of excuse is exactly what we don't need in the White House. "Well, hyuck, President McCain didn't say that, hyuck. One of his advisors did." |
| 16:48.20 | dataw0lf | Regardless. Obama wins, McCain loses. Big time. The Republican base should take a hard look at itself and ask themselves whether or not they want to continue down their present path. |
| 16:50.21 | DexterTheDragon | nope no snow up that far |
| 16:52.09 | herlo | DexterTheDragon: we have snow in Murray |
| 16:52.11 | unum | we have snow |
| 16:52.23 | herlo | dataw0lf: that wasn't my point at all |
| 16:52.30 | unum | I didn't think to park my car in my garage |
| 16:52.35 | herlo | oops |
| 16:53.02 | unum | last night I hung out with Dan Snarr(as seen on American Idol) |
| 16:53.08 | unum | his sister won her election |
| 16:53.18 | unum | and Greg Curtis is GONE!!! |
| 16:53.25 | DexterTheDragon | yeah the snow didn't start untill about bountiful south |
| 16:53.40 | herlo | dataw0lf: I was saying that both parties dug into their *negative* coffers and spewed possible untruths at each other. I voted for Obama btw, mostly because I believe he has a chance to *change* the world and I want to be a part of that |
| 16:54.30 | unum | I'm glad I had nothing to do with the Rendell campaign I understand it was all negative |
| 16:54.46 | unum | herlo: you'll notice that you didn't see anything negative from cosgrove :) |
| 16:55.06 | herlo | unum: and part of the reason I voted for him, but I don't watch much televsion |
| 16:55.15 | dataw0lf | herlo: There's a difference between your typical negative campaigning and the ridiculous garbage the McCain campaign continuously spewed. I don't know if you saw most of the battleground ads, but the essential theme of the Republican ads was "BE SCARED OMG BE SCARED" |
| 16:55.21 | tierra | dataw0lf: I've got a mac build of Phoenix up |
| 16:55.31 | carmony | I didn't vote for Obama, however, I do respect & support America's decision as a whole and will support Obama. I'm just worried a lot of people are going to be disappointed at what Obama will actually be able to accomplish. |
| 16:55.31 | dataw0lf | tierra: priv me |
| 16:56.17 | tierra | I already put it up for anyone in here to grab... http://www.phoenixcpm.com/downloads/Phoenix%20Setup%201.4.0.21.dmg |
| 16:56.44 | dataw0lf | downloading |
| 16:56.48 | unum | herlo: there were no TV adds in that race |
| 16:57.01 | tierra | dataw0lf: Known Issues: http://www.phoenixcpm.com/downloads/Known_Mac_Issues |
| 16:57.08 | herlo | dataw0lf: maybe, but you don't have to get caught up in it either, that's what they want you to do. I don't listen to right wing talk radio because it's all yelling about and does nobody any good. Listening to NPR, while biased toward the left, doesn't yell at me nor tell me anyone is bad. |
| 16:57.29 | tierra | dataw0lf: Sample Project to play with: http://www.phoenixcpm.com/downloads/Sunrise%20Hotel%20and%20Casino.ppx |
| 16:57.44 | tierra | alright, I'm off to work, bbl |
| 16:57.50 | dataw0lf | herlo: well I didn't get caught up in it. I just lost any respect for McCain I had. |
| 16:58.10 | herlo | dataw0lf: your words tell a different story. |
| 16:59.11 | dataw0lf | How? I find it ridiculous and condescending of the Republicans to make vague associations to people William Ayers and Rev. Wright, and use the fear generated for their own purposes. But I'm not caught up in it. I was never worried Obama would lose, which would be the only reason why I'd get "caught up in it". |
| 17:00.46 | unum | I was really mad at the local republican candidate |
| 17:01.08 | unum | his entire campaign was "my opponent took money from bruce bastion" |
| 17:01.24 | herlo | dataw0lf: no, you are ranting and raving right now about how negative McCain was. To me, that's getting caught up in it. Politics are a touchy subject at best, vial and disgusting at worst. I prefer to look at the positives of the situation and say, 'yay, Obama won, hopefully the world will be a better place because of it' and leave it at that. I suppose that means I've been caught up in the politics a little too, but hey I do appreciate a good debate as we |
| 17:01.28 | carmony | dataw0lf, I could argue that, but I don't have the time to spend on it ;) But Obama does have several socialist ideals, call them whatever you want. Now, I don't think he is a full blown out Socialist, I just think his ideas when implemented won't turn out like he hopes. |
| 17:02.32 | unum | carmony: that's understandable, I feel the same about libertarians |
| 17:02.43 | dataw0lf | herlo: I never ranted and raved. I said that McCain's concession speech was classy, but it wasn't enough to salvage any respect from me. |
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| 17:03.04 | eggyknap | josephscott: ping |
| 17:03.06 | dataw0lf | I can turn on the "Rant & Rave" switch on dataw0lf. I thought it was fairly obvious when I was ranting and raving. Apparently not. |
| 17:03.16 | josephscott | eggyknap: pong |
| 17:03.33 | herlo | dataw0lf: you are right, I apologize, you didn't rant or rave, just pointed it out |
| 17:03.35 | eggyknap | josephscott: So, I forget -- is there a way for wordpress to be happy w/ postgresql? |
| 17:03.41 | herlo | NO! |
| 17:03.44 | herlo | hehe |
| 17:03.54 | carmony | lol, unum, thats why I Actually think there needs to be more than just the "two major parties". Ideally the different opinions, with cooperation and understanding, help find good middle ground. |
| 17:03.59 | unum | I have it running with postgres on my server |
| 17:04.26 | josephscott | eggyknap: someone did a port a long time ago, but there's no official support to WP using anything besides MySQL |
| 17:04.41 | unum | let me double check |
| 17:04.43 | mgeary | an interested party? |
| 17:04.48 | mgeary | i want to go to an interested party |
| 17:04.49 | eggyknap | zelut |
| 17:04.52 | eggyknap | mgeary: lol |
| 17:04.52 | mgeary | i'll bring balloons |
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| 17:05.27 | herlo | carmony: you'd disrupt the sine and cosine naturally occuring if there were more than two parties |
| 17:05.48 | eggyknap | mgeary: you'd become a tangent |
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| 17:05.58 | mgeary | i'd prefer to be an arctangent |
| 17:06.20 | itimber | morning guys |
| 17:07.45 | herlo | carmony: think of it this way. The world works in cycles, and balances out pretty well because of it. Usually the yin or yang provides a good balance overall, never getting to cold or too hot. Similar with rep's and dem's, adding a third party would essentially break that cycle into an unknown mess, which is imo, why it hasn't changed in over 100 years. |
| 17:08.09 | mgeary | herlo: i don't know that 'mess' is the right word |
| 17:08.10 | unum | looks like I gave and used mysql |
| 17:08.18 | mgeary | it'd mean a lot more coalitions would have to be built, like in Europe |
| 17:08.22 | mgeary | i don't see that as a bad thing |
| 17:08.31 | mgeary | i think it'd be awesome if we had 5 major parties |
| 17:08.58 | herlo | mgeary: sure, s/mess/something-you'd-prefer-as-chaos/ |
| 17:09.46 | eggyknap | unum: this is the sound of my crest falling, resulting in my becoming crestfallen. |
| 17:09.51 | eggyknap | Thx, folks. |
| 17:10.04 | unum | I thought there was a script with debian... |
| 17:10.37 | unum | nope I'm smoking something |
| 17:10.44 | beandog | http://www.mentalfloss.com/quiz/quiz.php?q=472&p=1 |
| 17:10.52 | beandog | 80s cartoon quiz |
| 17:11.01 | beandog | I only got 10 out of 15 |
| 17:12.58 | carmony | herlo, there are several countries with 3 parties, like Canada and Mexico. I don't know if 3 parties is the solution, but the problem is that as a "republican" I have some values that are important to me, but lots of other "republican issues" that I don't feel strongly. Yet I get grouped with every issue when I declare I'm republican. |
| 17:13.06 | carmony | I dunno, the lack of choice just bothers me :P |
| 17:14.09 | unum | england, germany, Iraq |
| 17:14.13 | unum | have multi party systems |
| 17:14.26 | mgeary | i believe most of Europe does |
| 17:14.36 | mgeary | they all have a pretty strong "Green" parties |
| 17:14.44 | unum | in germany and iraq they have proportianal elections |
| 17:15.05 | unum | which encourages multiple parties, but I don't really like |
| 17:15.20 | mgeary | but it fosters compromise & collaboration |
| 17:15.23 | unum | ya they end up being more socialist and less libertaiarn actually.... |
| 17:15.27 | unum | which is fine by me |
| 17:18.40 | carmony | I'm just worried about some programs, like the $500 tax credit, won't help the situation. |
| 17:23.07 | mindjuju | @beandog - k i'm taking it now |
| 17:23.22 | mindjuju | man sure was a lot of traffic from utah county to draper |
| 17:23.53 | beandog | it's all the republicans fleeing for their lives |
| 17:24.09 | mindjuju | heh |
| 17:24.39 | mindjuju | with mccain's speech last night, i think he helped bring in a sense that we need to be unified |
| 17:25.04 | mindjuju | :) |
| 17:25.09 | carmony | lol, I actually think Obama will be good for the US in some ways. We really could use a popular president who is a good speaker and will do well with public opinion |
| 17:25.22 | carmony | I don't care who you are, 8 years of bush was depressing. |
| 17:25.53 | beandog | I dunno about anywhere else in Utah, but man, in SLC you'd never even know McCain was running. Ive seen *one* lawn sign for McCain, and freaking everyone up here had Obama stickers / signs everywhere. |
| 17:25.54 | carmony | I don't think he did as terrible of a job as some peopel make it seem, but he really sucked at public opinion. |
| 17:25.57 | mindjuju | interesting times, i wonder how other presidents would have faired |
| 17:27.08 | carmony | A lot of people are saying Obama is going to have a presidency a lot like Bill Clinton, minus the women under his desk. ;) |
| 17:27.21 | unum | I hope it's better than clinton |
| 17:27.27 | unum | i see lots of signs that it will be |
| 17:27.43 | carmony | Better in what ways? |
| 17:27.44 | mgeary | well, not that Clinton can take full credit, but a lot of good happened during his term |
| 17:27.59 | unum | I don't think he'll make some of the stupid military decisions clinton did |
| 17:28.12 | carmony | Ah, I hope and agree with you unum on that one. |
| 17:28.19 | herlo | carmony: nobody will *ever* have everything you agree with, that is for sure. |
| 17:28.22 | unum | I think obama will move on some of the things important to the free software groups |
| 17:28.44 | carmony | herlo, I know, but only 2 choices is depressing ;) |
| 17:28.55 | dataw0lf | the stupid military decisions? |
| 17:28.57 | dataw0lf | by Clinton? |
| 17:29.12 | unum | dataw0lf: samolia |
| 17:29.17 | herlo | carmony: 3 and 4 choices will be more depressing when you can't get what you want still |
| 17:30.06 | dataw0lf | unum: what were his bad decisions? To use foreign armor instead of our own? |
| 17:30.12 | dataw0lf | (regarding: somalia) |
| 17:30.27 | dataw0lf | My platoon sergeant was a ranger in Somalia, he got a bronze star with "V" there. |
| 17:30.30 | carmony | herlo: true. Thats why, no matter what happens with the goverment, while I hope for the best, I'm planning on my own retirement and paying for everything myself, that way I won't get screwed in the end. |
| 17:30.51 | herlo | lol, okay |
| 17:30.57 | mindjuju | carmony - good call on that |
| 17:31.14 | mindjuju | it's not govs responsibility any way |
| 17:31.16 | unum | dataw0lf: his mistake was scaling up the objective but not the forces |
| 17:31.19 | mgeary | carmony: unless an unregulated environment undermines your careful planning and things fall apart |
| 17:31.34 | unum | and ignoring his advisors when they told him so |
| 17:31.40 | dataw0lf | Right. He didn't deploy armor, essentially. |
| 17:31.52 | unum | ya |
| 17:32.06 | unum | I feel like if we are going to commit we need to commit |
| 17:32.10 | dataw0lf | Except that the Rangers had Bradleys already, which are the only actual armor that would've been useful in Mogadishu. |
| 17:32.18 | carmony | mgeary: it is a risk, but I'm not going to have all my eggs in one basket |
| 17:32.18 | unum | and I feel like Clinton did that in a lot of cases not just military |
| 17:32.24 | dataw0lf | (due to the massive destruction the warlords had riddled the streets with) |
| 17:32.41 | dataw0lf | In fact, we may have lost unneeded armor if we had deployed heavy armor there. |
| 17:32.41 | unum | I have the same feelings about Huntsman |
| 17:33.16 | dataw0lf | So that argument about the deployed troops needing armor so badly in Somalia is bogus. In Pathfinder school AND urban warfare school we had to study various battles in Somalia. |
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| 17:33.50 | unum | dataw0lf: I hadn't heard the armor argument, but that here needed to be more troops |
| 17:33.51 | dataw0lf | A better decision would've been to scale _down_ the perceived forces |
| 17:34.01 | unum | or that the mission should be withdrawn |
| 17:34.03 | dataw0lf | and used the delta force soldiers better than they did. |
| 17:34.30 | dataw0lf | (the commanding general made several mistakes, deploying SF counter-terrorist (Delta Force) units too early a major one) |
| 17:35.38 | dataw0lf | so I don't think Clinton made a huge mistake militarily in Somalia. There were minor mistakes at the executive level and the officer level that snowballed. |
| 17:36.23 | dataw0lf | I don't know exactly what info I know about Somalia is classified so I'll just stop before I get sent to Gitmo before Obama can take the reins from Bush. |
| 17:36.37 | unum | :) |
| 17:36.58 | mgeary | aw, c'mon |
| 17:37.00 | mindjuju | @beandog - 87% or 13 out of 15, sorry took so long |
| 17:37.06 | unum | I mostly just know what Powell said, well and I watched the movie and the history channel thing |
| 17:37.07 | dataw0lf | Frankly, though, the worst blow to our military in decades was presided over by Bush. (blows, actually) |
| 17:37.19 | dataw0lf | our ground forces are going to need a long, long time to come back. |
| 17:37.29 | dataw0lf | (to the levels they were at during Clinton) |
| 17:37.43 | beandog | mindjuju, nice |
| 19:41.05 | PoeticIntensity | does anyone know of anything that does any javascript debugging in IE? |
| 19:45.13 | unum | I had to download nagware to do it last time |
| 19:45.19 | unum | I can't remember what I used |
| 19:50.49 | mgeary | ~pity PoeticIntensity |
| 19:50.49 | jbot | I pity da fool PoeticIntensity! |
| 19:51.06 | mgeary | best i've seen, not that it's saying anything at all, is Visual Web Developer Studio |
| 19:51.09 | PoeticIntensity | man.... If I didn't have to support IE... |
| 19:51.11 | PoeticIntensity | man.. |
| 19:51.24 | PoeticIntensity | SO much time is wasted trying to debug JS in IE. |
| 19:51.28 | mgeary | totally |
| 19:51.47 | PoeticIntensity | you'd think someone would come up with something.... |
| 19:51.48 | PoeticIntensity | oh... wait... |
| 19:51.55 | PoeticIntensity | M$ isn't open source... Nevermind... |
| 19:51.59 | PoeticIntensity | they CAN'T come up with anything. |
| 19:52.02 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 19:52.05 | PoeticIntensity | </rant> |
| 19:53.19 | mgeary | Best. U2. Song. Evar. |
| 19:53.36 | mgeary | or top 3, at least |
| 19:54.08 | dataw0lf | that's like ranking cow patties |
| 19:54.13 | mgeary | hahahah |
| 19:54.24 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 19:54.35 | mgeary | early U2 is awesome stuff |
| 19:54.48 | SunSparc | mgeary: Yeah, that is a good one. |
| 19:54.50 | mgeary | later U2 is meh. hit an dmiss |
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| 20:07.39 | mindjuju | michael Crichton died - http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/11/67369/ |
| 20:14.47 | SunSparc | I bet you a velociraptor got him. |
| 20:17.24 | mgeary | 66 is just too young for cancer to take you |
| 20:22.46 | dataw0lf | http://media.1up.com/media/03/6/4/3/lg/201.jpg |
| 20:23.56 | SunSparc | lol |
| 20:54.54 | dataw0lf | http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581/page/1 |
| 20:54.56 | dataw0lf | Fascinating. |
| 21:00.02 | mgeary | s/politically active/politically significant/ |
| 21:00.41 | unum | dataw0lf: nice link |
| 21:03.57 | fungus | Eek, There were actually 22,905 voters that picked SuperDell for Governor. |
| 21:04.13 | mgeary | maybe that's the margin of error |
| 21:04.39 | fungus | http://electionresults.utah.gov/xmlData/30027.html |
| 21:04.53 | fungus | I doubt it. I think that is how many crazies are in Utah |
| 21:05.19 | mgeary | oh no. there's far more than that |
| 21:05.28 | mgeary | ;) |
| 21:09.25 | SunSparc | num_crazies(utah) == total_population(utah) |
| 21:09.56 | mgeary | aww |
| 21:10.56 | SunSparc | Everyone in the world is crazy. All depends on your definition of crazy. |
| 21:11.56 | josephscott | I tried to read SuperDell's statement in the voter booklet, but it made no sense |
| 21:18.49 | unum | josephscott: have you not been in here during the blog readings |
| 21:19.02 | josephscott | ? |
| 21:19.13 | josephscott | I guess not |
| 21:19.28 | unum | a few of us would be reading through his blog at the same time and post our favourite quotes |
| 21:19.36 | unum | or maybe those were all in #utah |
| 21:20.15 | josephscott | he has a blog? I hope it reads better that in governor statement |
| 21:20.36 | dataw0lf | Worse, actually. |
| 21:21.20 | josephscott | yikes |
| 21:21.26 | unum | ya it is worse |
| 21:21.29 | josephscott | where'd this guy come from? |
| 21:21.57 | dataw0lf | Superdell? He was the founder/owner of Totally Awesome!!ONE! Computers. |
| 21:23.39 | unum | he's been in the news for different charges and law suits, most of which I think were eventually dropped |
| 21:26.10 | josephscott | he has his own wikipedia page, rofl! |
| 21:26.58 | unum | so does pete ashdown |
| 21:27.15 | unum | Pete's lower profile, only because he's not as crazy |
| 21:32.49 | fungus | herlo: I just tried to link to your site to another coworker, and he got blocked by our firewall. Their URL categorization stuck you in "Adult Materials". :) |
| 21:34.07 | mgeary | he's probably on a shared IP |
| 21:34.19 | mgeary | i've got a domain that is on a shared IP with some adult content :/ |
| 21:34.34 | mgeary | didn't find out until i was doing some work for the LDS church |
| 21:34.43 | mgeary | they couldn't download anything i posted |
| 21:34.56 | mgeary | http://www.myipneighbors.com/ |
| 21:35.21 | fungus | Nah. Fortinet (my firewall manufacturer) categorizes by domain name. |
| 21:35.43 | mgeary | ah, well. We *are* talking about dataw0lf here.... |
| 21:36.23 | dataw0lf | wha huh? |
| 21:47.08 | tierra | I wish I had a paid membership to DomainTools... so much useful info, but the memberships are way more expensive than I'm willing to pay for the 2-3 times I use the site in a month |
| 21:47.30 | tierra | I'm not paying $15/mo to use the site 2 or 3 times a month |
| 21:50.21 | tierra | I think I found a site that used to be hosted with one of my IP addresses, and DomainTools can tell me if that was the case for sure, but it's a paid membership feature |
| 21:56.51 | mindjuju | elections not quite as nasty as those in the past - http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081105/sc_livescience/pastpresidentialelectionsfarnastier |
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| 22:45.55 | orsonj | I voted for superdell |
| 22:46.16 | synic | did you wash your hands after? |
| 22:46.16 | orsonj | mostly just for fun though. |
| 22:46.56 | orsonj | Mostly I would like someone in the government who knows how to send an email. |
| 22:47.10 | fungus | yikes! |
| 22:47.12 | orsonj | hmmm... a little too much mostly there |
| 22:47.26 | itimber | I'm out.... later guys |
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| 23:20.56 | mgeary | tierra: is DomainTools like DNS Reports? |
| 23:21.09 | tierra | not really |
| 23:21.37 | mindjuju | dnsreports chareges now too, no? |
| 23:22.11 | tierra | I use DomainTools mostly just because I used to use whois.sc who was purchased by DomainTools |
| 23:22.21 | tierra | whois.sc still works though thankfully |
| 23:23.11 | tierra | I use it because it's simple to get a domain whois by just typing something like "whois.sc/herlo.org" for example |
| 23:23.28 | mgeary | why not just do "whois herlo.org" ? |
| 23:23.44 | tierra | good question |
| 23:23.59 | tierra | I'm lazy about setting up bookmark keywords |
| 23:25.01 | mgeary | i just use terminal |
| 23:25.31 | tierra | domaintools has tons of useful info other than the typical whois |
| 23:25.52 | tierra | for example, the IP history I mentioned earlier |
| 23:29.24 | mgeary | nice |
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