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| 03:40.23 | mgeary | heya |
| 03:40.43 | mgeary | you know, just planning my last-minute election-rigging for tomorrow |
| 03:40.54 | mgeary | these things always take more time than you figure |
| 03:41.00 | mindjuju | :) |
| 03:41.41 | mindjuju | well, at least sometime this month, methinks, we'll know who is the next pres |
| 03:42.02 | mindjuju | i've read that both already have pending lawsuits |
| 03:42.04 | mgeary | yeah. i'd like to think it will be a blow-out. If it's really close, things are likely to get ugly |
| 03:42.26 | mgeary | but i can't see how McCain could possibly get a blow-out at this point |
| 03:42.49 | mindjuju | the so called bradley effect (sp)? |
| 03:43.01 | mgeary | if (IF, *IIIIIIFFFFF*) McC wins, it'll be by a razor-thin margin, and that'll cause all kinds of havoc |
| 03:45.06 | mgeary | you know, i don't really understand how Barack Obama is "black". He was raised by a white mother and white grandparents. I'm not under the impression that he was raised in the inner-city. He's just as much white as he is black. So why is it that he's "black"? |
| 03:45.51 | mindjuju | i'm not voting on race |
| 03:46.08 | mindjuju | i'm just saying that poll nums can be skewed |
| 03:46.32 | mindjuju | but for everybody's sake, i agree, i hope there is a clear winner |
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| 06:07.47 | mgeary | 'cause i'm running so far to find you and i'm running so fast |
| 06:08.22 | mindjuju | :) |
| 06:08.24 | mindjuju | love this song |
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| 16:11.25 | reycastill | hola |
| 16:12.31 | mgeary | big day |
| 16:13.07 | reycastill | UPHPU eso significa universidad |
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| 16:14.30 | mgeary | no hablo |
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| 16:21.18 | mgeary | anyone got any good feed for real-time election result data? |
| 16:22.00 | _psychic_ | CNNs is usually good |
| 16:22.09 | _psychic_ | you won't start to get much until 6PM |
| 16:22.32 | cro | and absentee/early voting probably will be a big factor this election. |
| 16:22.45 | cro | it's snowing up here. |
| 16:23.30 | _psychic_ | booo |
| 16:32.12 | mgeary | cro: where are you? Logan? |
| 16:32.19 | cro | Layton |
| 16:33.20 | unum | go peterson!!! |
| 16:33.26 | unum | or dose she spell it with a d |
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| 16:41.08 | unum | mgeary: looks like tannuebaum is going to be updating regularly |
| 16:41.18 | unum | I also like to watch google news |
| 16:41.18 | mgeary | unum: link? |
| 16:41.26 | unum | electoral-vote.com |
| 16:41.29 | mgeary | cnn's home page does seem to be decent |
| 16:41.52 | unum | I'm sure it will be updated more often then electoral vote |
| 16:42.43 | unum | "You are currently using Flash Player 0" |
| 16:42.46 | unum | hehehe |
| 16:50.46 | SunSparc | http://totallyawesome.com |
| 16:55.41 | unum | no posts since sunday |
| 16:56.18 | mgeary | heh. did you see where his "legal advice" link takes you? |
| 16:56.32 | unum | no... |
| 16:57.03 | unum | oh |
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| 17:02.40 | herlo | this is my favorite bit from superdell's blog |
| 17:02.41 | herlo | I understand your partner sued you, is that correct? Why? |
| 17:02.42 | herlo | Not true. I didn't have a partner. I hired a guy a $10 an hour, promoted him personally up to $102,000 per year plus bonuses because I am the most generous person you can imagine. He then sued claiming I held him back from promotion. He was the VP, the only thing up from there was my job. Again the whole thing was a fraud by the media. It was blatantly obvious from looking at the facts that the whole thing was complete bull crap. |
| 17:03.02 | herlo | because I am the most generous person you can imagine. :) haha |
| 17:03.38 | herlo | exactly! |
| 17:07.21 | mgeary | 'course, i'm not certain we'd want the kinds of gifts SuperDell would bring in our house |
| 17:08.25 | herlo | oh, but he's the most generous person he can imagine |
| 17:08.30 | herlo | he'd bring great gifts |
| 17:08.33 | carmony | JK!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 17:08.37 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.42 | carmony | lol |
| 17:10.59 | fungus | ~lart carmony |
| 17:10.59 | jbot | wallops carmony with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long |
| 17:15.44 | SunSparc | What? Everyone voted for someone other than SuperDell? |
| 17:17.14 | unum | I have two brothers who said they were going to vote for him |
| 17:17.38 | carmony | I actually would love the Libertarian party to gain some ground... just not SuperDell |
| 17:17.40 | fungus | hopefully they are underage |
| 17:17.57 | SunSparc | It would be interesting to step into an alternate universe for a while and see what kind of havoc he could bring to the world as an elected official. |
| 17:18.35 | unum | I've only met one libertarian who knew much history |
| 17:19.20 | unum | most libertarians are amazingly ignorant about histroy |
| 17:19.26 | unum | history |
| 17:20.09 | carmony | lol, I know a lot of smart ones. However, most vote republican since most Libertarian canidates don't have a shot at all |
| 17:20.26 | carmony | Why do you say Libertarians don't know much about history? |
| 17:21.18 | SunSparc | What is history? |
| 17:21.30 | SunSparc | The stuff that happened yesterday? |
| 17:22.24 | unum | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions <- most libertarian deny those exist |
| 17:22.35 | unum | well all of the ones before the federal reserve was created |
| 17:23.03 | SunSparc | recessions are just great times to buy |
| 17:23.05 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:23.13 | unum | libertarian claim the founding fathers were opposed to the federal government running the economy, hamilton fough for a federal government for the sole purpose of using it to run the economy |
| 17:23.16 | carmony | Recessions are totally natural events |
| 17:23.32 | unum | carmony: you are more sane then other libertarian I have spoken with |
| 17:23.56 | unum | who have claimed recessions are created by the federal government in order to manipulate the electorate |
| 17:24.03 | carmony | naw |
| 17:24.05 | carmony | thats crazy |
| 17:24.07 | unum | that was a key theme with ron paul supporters |
| 17:25.26 | _psychic_ | SunSparc: not many people buy stock when they're homeless. |
| 17:25.46 | SunSparc | Historically, that is very accurate _psychic_ |
| 17:25.48 | carmony | I guess my philosophy is that Goverment needs to be very careful in what it does with the economy, because it can cause artificial effects that aren't sustainable (i.e. May & Mac) |
| 17:26.23 | _psychic_ | unum: I'm an RP supporter, and I don't believe that |
| 17:26.38 | _psychic_ | but I do believe the more government tries to force the market's hand, the worse we'll be in trouble |
| 17:27.29 | carmony | But what I am for is more resposibility for executives of major companies |
| 17:28.57 | _psychic_ | anyone who thinks they can run the economy is fooling themselves. |
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| 17:31.20 | unum | _psychic_: like Hamilton? |
| 17:31.39 | _psychic_ | like the Queen of Sheba |
| 17:32.02 | _psychic_ | did he wan't to run the economy? |
| 17:32.06 | _psychic_ | *want |
| 17:32.17 | wps | so who voted for Super Dell???? |
| 17:32.28 | carmony | ;) |
| 17:32.29 | unum | yes, he did want to run the economy, so I'm asking you if you believe he was fooling himself |
| 17:32.49 | carmony | unum, I'll say he was fooling himself |
| 17:32.59 | _psychic_ | ugh please stop talking about that retard |
| 17:32.59 | _psychic_ | unum: yeah he was. |
| 17:33.03 | _psychic_ | where are you getting that, though? |
| 17:33.16 | _psychic_ | btw he was wrong on the Virginia plan too, so there :) |
| 17:33.29 | _psychic_ | but I really admire him |
| 17:33.38 | _psychic_ | I want to know where you're getting your info |
| 17:33.54 | unum | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamiltonian_economic_program |
| 17:34.12 | unum | and any biography ever written on him |
| 17:36.04 | unum | though I am impressed that you knew he supported the virginia plan |
| 17:38.05 | _psychic_ | yeah I'm not for a national bank that "manages" currency |
| 17:38.45 | unum | it really annoys me when people talk about what the "founding fathers" wanted. it's not like they really agreed on everything |
| 17:39.06 | unum | libertarians and costitutionalist seemed to be convinced that they did |
| 17:39.22 | _psychic_ | well and while I think they were inspired and did an amazing job, some of their ideas sucked |
| 17:39.27 | _psychic_ | like the 3/5ths rule (which was sorta necessary, but sucked) |
| 17:39.32 | unum | I'm fine with libertarians who don't claim the founding fathers were on their side |
| 17:39.38 | unum | _psychic_: agreed |
| 17:39.46 | _psychic_ | everyone coming together and hammering it out was what gave it the magic |
| 17:40.08 | _psychic_ | the problem now is that people leave their hammers in the shed so they can watch TV |
| 17:40.35 | unum | did I post my lessig quote in here? |
| 17:40.47 | unum | I really like what he said on his blog yesterday |
| 17:42.03 | unum | How weird is it that engaging people about democratic issues in a democracy is generally viewed as inappropriate |
| 17:42.13 | unum | -- Lessig |
| 17:42.28 | _psychic_ | It is? |
| 17:43.09 | unum | I have people tell me to stop talking politics |
| 17:43.42 | _psychic_ | It gets that way in families, I suppose |
| 17:43.51 | _psychic_ | that way "no one gets offended" |
| 17:44.07 | unum | well family, church, work |
| 17:44.08 | mindjuju | election day freebies - http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2008/11/04/election-day-freebies-abound-for-voters-starbucks-krispy-kreme/ |
| 17:45.02 | herlo | and ben and jerry's too |
| 17:45.18 | mindjuju | ben and jerries is on there |
| 17:45.23 | mindjuju | err, jerry's |
| 17:45.31 | unum | they are saying it's illegal in some states |
| 17:45.39 | mindjuju | freebies? |
| 17:45.49 | unum | you can't pay people to vote |
| 17:45.54 | _psychic_ | I think it's only illegal if you accept payment for a *certain* vote, not just voting in general |
| 17:46.05 | unum | I think it depends on the state |
| 17:46.19 | _psychic_ | the law itself says that if you work all day you have to let people go for a few hours to vote no matter what |
| 17:47.09 | mindjuju | yup |
| 17:47.10 | mindjuju | 2 hrs |
| 17:47.20 | mindjuju | AFAIK |
| 17:51.07 | mgeary | humpf |
| 17:51.34 | mindjuju | oh |
| 17:51.39 | mindjuju | i thought you meant about the 2 hours |
| 17:52.18 | mgeary | nah, i'm buying your lunch then, remember? |
| 17:52.28 | mindjuju | really? |
| 17:52.29 | mgeary | unum: can by me the soda |
| 17:52.33 | wps | I wish I could have voted early. I didn't register earlier enough though. |
| 17:52.34 | mgeary | yep |
| 17:52.38 | mindjuju | way cool! |
| 17:52.41 | wps | (had to reregister because I moved) |
| 18:19.11 | wps | his new MPB just arrived |
| 18:19.18 | wps | how is everyone by-the-way? |
| 18:19.35 | wps | I feel so disconnected not having access to IRC at my new job |
| 18:19.42 | wps | (I'm working from home today) |
| 18:19.44 | SunSparc | wps: It does not matter how we are. How do you like your new MBP? |
| 18:19.57 | wps | well, I don't actually have it yet |
| 18:20.06 | wps | I just got an email from the lady that purchases hardware stating that it arrived |
| 18:20.30 | wps | she is registering it in the system and then will send me another email when I can come pick it up |
| 18:20.41 | wps | so perhaps I will be driving into the office today anyway :) |
| 18:21.00 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:21.17 | mgeary | anyone here use Adobe After Effects, perchance? |
| 18:21.23 | wps | but I'll return with a full report once I get it in my grubby hands |
| 18:21.38 | wps | wow, I haven't used after effects for years |
| 18:21.46 | wps | enjoyed it when I did, but it's been a long time |
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| 19:20.42 | SunSparc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adc3MSS5Ydc |
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| 19:23.32 | carmony | I love that video |
| 19:23.42 | mindjuju | i like their older stuff |
| 19:26.47 | mindjuju | carmony - like this one - http://www.jibjab.com/originals/good_to_be_in_dc |
| 19:27.53 | mindjuju | or this one - http://www.jibjab.com/originals/this_land |
| 19:29.34 | unum | now you can't bring up jib jab without reminding everyone to give to the eff :) |
| 19:31.52 | carmony | now this was a really good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQtiazZ2Tw |
| 19:37.41 | carmony | hehehe - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9r01fqmLWw |
| 19:37.49 | carmony | I love Red vs Blue |
| 19:54.30 | mgeary | anyone here use Filezilla on Windows? |
| 19:54.38 | mgeary | i need to help someone get into Active mode |
| 19:58.26 | mgeary | alternatively, anyone know how to make proftp support passive mode? |
| 19:59.26 | tierra | mgeary: Filezilla 3? |
| 19:59.30 | mgeary | yes |
| 19:59.45 | tierra | it's in Edit->Settings->Connection->FTP |
| 20:00.36 | tierra | you can set it per-site too under the transfer settings |
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| 20:12.06 | itimber | afternoon guys |
| 20:12.51 | carmony | sup itimber |
| 20:13.44 | itimber | got a story |
| 20:13.48 | itimber | my kitchen faucet broke yesterday...... |
| 20:13.56 | itimber | so, I went home to repair it |
| 20:14.07 | itimber | my house was built in 46 |
| 20:14.17 | itimber | so, there's only 1 shutoff |
| 20:14.24 | itimber | and it's older than me |
| 20:14.28 | itimber | so, I shut that off |
| 20:14.37 | itimber | then pull the crap from under the sink |
| 20:15.06 | itimber | including a plywood shelf that's sitting on some 1x1s as rails |
| 20:15.31 | itimber | when pulling that board out, it pulled a rusted portion of my trap out with it |
| 20:15.44 | itimber | a section of 1"x4" |
| 20:15.46 | itimber | or so |
| 20:15.53 | itimber | cause the trap was all rusted |
| 20:16.19 | itimber | and so, every time we used the kitchen sink, it was soaking the plywood and my walls |
| 20:16.23 | itimber | loverly huh |
| 20:16.44 | itimber | so I spent all of last night, till 4am working on it |
| 20:17.02 | itimber | and all of this morning |
| 20:17.12 | itimber | oh.... and my main shutoff.... |
| 20:17.19 | itimber | it doesn't really shutoff |
| 20:17.22 | itimber | completely |
| 20:17.24 | itimber | :) |
| 20:17.26 | SunSparc_ | You should have waited for Obama to fix it. |
| 20:17.33 | itimber | no doubt |
| 20:18.04 | itimber | except that since I run my own biz.... technically I'm in the 5% that's going to pay for the other 95% |
| 20:18.21 | itimber | prob is that I"m just a meat and potatoes operation..... |
| 20:18.25 | carmony | yeah, because itimber can afford to pay for his house |
| 20:18.31 | unum | itimber: I own my own biz, but won't end paying more |
| 20:18.31 | itimber | so, I'm a touch nervous about how this all shakes out |
| 20:18.33 | SunSparc_ | :) |
| 20:18.43 | unum | of course your business must do a lot better than mine |
| 20:19.05 | carmony | itimber, do you use an accountant? |
| 20:19.09 | itimber | yes |
| 20:19.20 | carmony | k, good :) |
| 20:19.27 | mgeary | itimber: only if you're doing better than 250k/year |
| 20:19.41 | itimber | mgeary: he dropped it to 200k |
| 20:19.41 | unum | and that's 250k NET |
| 20:19.49 | mgeary | and if you are, you can afford to hire Joe the Plumber to repair your faucet |
| 20:20.06 | itimber | so, I'm not above that line.... but my clients are |
| 20:20.07 | mgeary | itimber: got a reference for that? I hadn't heard that |
| 20:20.13 | itimber | it trickles down boys |
| 20:20.14 | unum | and charge it as a business expense and save 10k right there :) |
| 20:20.35 | unum | but the poor will now have more money |
| 20:20.41 | unum | but I guess you refuse to do work for them |
| 20:20.53 | itimber | huh?? |
| 20:21.05 | itimber | I don't follow unum |
| 20:21.40 | unum | people making less then 200K will have more money under obama |
| 20:21.48 | unum | so you can pick them up as clients |
| 20:21.56 | unum | unless you don't like working for poor people |
| 20:22.30 | unum | of course if you're doing b2b it's all moot anyways |
| 20:22.56 | itimber | I gotcha |
| 20:23.40 | carmony | Taking away 3% of revenues can be a big deal, my last job that would have been 6 employees |
| 20:25.12 | unum | carmony: this isn't a cross business tax |
| 20:25.23 | unum | s/cross/gross |
| 20:25.34 | unum | the tax is only on money you don't spend on the business |
| 20:25.45 | unum | money you take out to buy your hummer. |
| 20:27.21 | carmony | Yeah, but then you're saying it would be a good idea to spend 100% of your revenue stream on the business, instead of building up surplusses |
| 20:27.45 | unum | you can keep the surpluss in the business and not pay taxes on it |
| 20:27.48 | unum | ms does it all the time |
| 20:29.06 | carmony | I just think its a bad idea, especially when 40% of the population isn't paying income tax |
| 20:29.12 | itimber | so you're saying Obama's tax increases won't affect the big players? |
| 20:29.15 | itimber | like ms |
| 20:29.26 | itimber | and not the little guys, like you and me |
| 20:29.30 | unum | itimber: of course it won't affect ms |
| 20:29.38 | unum | it's not a tax on companies |
| 20:29.42 | itimber | it'll affect the middle guys |
| 20:29.49 | unum | it doesn't affect companies |
| 20:30.01 | itimber | the ambitious guys, creating revenue for the US |
| 20:30.09 | carmony | you try to squeeze businesses, and the people who get hurt are employees and customers. |
| 20:30.11 | itimber | that's a great plan |
| 20:30.18 | unum | it's not a tax on businesses |
| 20:30.21 | carmony | the specific 3% doesn't apply to businesses |
| 20:30.34 | unum | there is no gross federal income tax |
| 20:30.38 | carmony | but he has plenty of other ideas on taxing businesses |
| 20:30.41 | unum | and obama has not proposed one |
| 20:30.45 | unum | carmony: where? |
| 20:31.06 | unum | carmony: and your stat about 40% not paying income tax leaves out other payroll taxes |
| 20:31.22 | unum | the poor actually pay a much hirer rate in most payroll taxes |
| 20:31.25 | itimber | no... it's not a tax on business..... it's a way to widen the spread between those who are ambitious and creative and those that are dependent on the government |
| 20:32.08 | itimber | it's called socialism.... which is a nice way of saying communism... and it's never worked |
| 20:32.38 | unum | we've been doing things this way for 90 years now |
| 20:32.42 | unum | and it's worked so far |
| 20:33.19 | itimber | no.... we've slowly been moving away from the Constitution for decades now.... |
| 20:33.52 | unum | we have had a graduated income tax for 90 years or so |
| 20:33.59 | unum | I don't understand what you are saying |
| 20:34.31 | unum | I'm very glad we moved away from the constitution on certain things, like the 3/5 compromise |
| 20:34.35 | unum | that was bad |
| 20:35.01 | itimber | nevermind dude |
| 20:35.50 | unum | I hate it when people try to force their interpetation of the founding fathers on me |
| 20:35.57 | unum | my interpetation is just valid as yours |
| 20:37.34 | mgeary | itimber: did you see that "spreading the wealth" graphic recently on digg? |
| 20:37.51 | itimber | no |
| 20:38.03 | mgeary | showed how much red and blue states receive from the gov't versus how much they pay to the govt |
| 20:38.08 | mgeary | it was very interesting |
| 20:38.20 | itimber | unum: I'm sorry I brought it up man |
| 20:40.27 | *** join/#uphpu redroy (n=redroy@69.169.153.199.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 20:41.34 | unum | sorry that's been my soapbox today |
| 20:41.40 | unum | well the last couple of days |
| 20:41.45 | *** join/#uphpu redroy (n=redroy@69.169.153.199.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 20:42.15 | unum | had a guy at work tell me that all of our rights are enumerated in the constitution. apparantly he never got to the tenth ammendment |
| 20:42.54 | carmony | I'll be honest, I feel a little ashamed because while I've been paying a LOT of attention to the presidential race, I haven't paid any attention to the canidets here in Utah |
| 20:50.20 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (n=sparky@173.8.91.177) |
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| 20:51.32 | itimber | mgeary: do you have a link? |
| 20:51.55 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:51.55 | mgeary | sec |
| 20:52.00 | unum | I've been out walking with 6 of my state people |
| 20:52.03 | mgeary | http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Red_State_Socialism_84_Red_States_Take_More_Than_They_Give |
| 20:52.08 | unum | and did a little work on a couple county campaigns |
| 20:52.50 | mgeary | itimber: but it's clearly posted by someone with an agenda, fwiw |
| 20:55.11 | mgeary | my only beef is that the republicans have been making so much political hay out of Obama's "spread the wealth around", but our country's been spreading wealth around ever since the introduction of the graduated income tax |
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| 21:02.31 | SunSparc | It does not make sense that we should introduce such inequality as to force people who make more to pay more. It is a punishment. |
| 21:04.39 | unum | SunSparc: your argument is fine as long as you don't invoke the constitution :) |
| 21:04.53 | unum | I honestly think the poor might be better off under a flat tax |
| 21:05.02 | unum | especially if it included ALL payroll taxes |
| 21:05.28 | SunSparc | unum: What part of the constitution should I not invoke? |
| 21:05.50 | SunSparc | I do not think there should be payroll taxes. |
| 21:06.21 | SunSparc | Why not tax what we spend only, and not what we make, instead of both. |
| 21:06.42 | unum | a sales tax is regressive |
| 21:07.00 | SunSparc | I don't understand what the means. |
| 21:07.24 | unum | it means poor people end up paying a hirer percentage of their income then the rich |
| 21:07.52 | SunSparc | How so? |
| 21:08.04 | unum | poor people spend more of their income |
| 21:08.12 | unum | rich people save more of their income |
| 21:10.02 | SunSparc | Well, from a perspective of percentage, yes. |
| 21:10.42 | SunSparc | poor spend more because they make less even if they are spending the same amount as someone who is "rich". |
| 21:10.57 | unum | right, but I said percentage |
| 21:11.31 | unum | you are complaining about the rich paying a higher percentage under the current system |
| 21:11.48 | unum | if we switch to a purely sales tax based system the poor will pay a higher percentage |
| 21:12.34 | unum | you can fire my entire family |
| 21:12.40 | unum | most of whe work there |
| 21:12.43 | SunSparc | I would agree with that _psychic_, at least before we look at taxes. |
| 21:12.53 | _psychic_ | 700+ bases |
| 21:13.01 | _psychic_ | there's some room there to cut down :) |
| 21:13.11 | unum | my mother works for job corps and I work for mccain's publicly financed campaign |
| 21:13.21 | unum | which is really ironic when you know how all of us voted.... |
| 21:13.48 | unum | I'm from Layton everyone votes republican because war is good for the local economy |
| 21:13.55 | unum | peace is REALLY BAD |
| 21:14.13 | _psychic_ | I hate that argument. :( |
| 21:15.03 | unum | ya, I'm always really disappointed when I talk to my family about politics... |
| 21:15.13 | mindjuju | hate as in don't like, or hate as in don't think is true |
| 21:15.20 | mindjuju | just curious |
| 21:15.52 | _psychic_ | I know how to help the economy - spend billions of dollars to ship billions of dollars of stuff to the middle east, where workers paid billions of dollars blow it up |
| 21:16.01 | _psychic_ | both |
| 21:16.41 | _psychic_ | no idea how such a destructive practice can "help" an economy |
| 21:16.48 | _psychic_ | let's tear down a few cities then. |
| 21:18.34 | unum | it help their own personal economy they don't really care about anyone else |
| 21:18.55 | unum | why should they? taking care of your neighbor makes him weak and helpless |
| 21:18.57 | mindjuju | _psychic - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Keynesianism |
| 21:19.02 | unum | atleast that's what they tell me |
| 21:19.25 | _psychic_ | it *doesn't* help your local economy |
| 21:19.25 | mindjuju | which is the plan we've been living since WWII |
| 21:19.49 | _psychic_ | besides we're learning more and more that there's no such thing as a "local" economy |
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| 21:20.26 | unum | _psychic_: it does help the local economy I grew up in. I don't see how you could say other wise, but overall you are right it will hurt them in the long run |
| 21:20.48 | _psychic_ | that's my point. |
| 21:21.04 | unum | ah ok that makes sense |
| 21:21.04 | _psychic_ | if you're cold you can pee your pants to feel warm for a few minutes. |
| 21:21.20 | _psychic_ | Same thing happened with the housing bubble. |
| 21:21.27 | _psychic_ | Oh you mean it's really not worth that everywhere? |
| 21:21.48 | unum | of course they tell them selves that it's neccesary to "save america" |
| 21:22.46 | _psychic_ | Fascism is supposed to come wrapped in a flag, wearing a cross, right? |
| 21:22.58 | unum | yes that sounds right to me |
| 21:23.13 | unum | but fascism is ok it's democratic socialism that destroys countries |
| 21:23.26 | unum | is the economics not the tyranical government |
| 21:23.58 | _psychic_ | fascism implies tight economic "control" |
| 21:24.04 | _psychic_ | bbl |
| 21:24.06 | _psychic_ | for real this time |
| 21:24.09 | _psychic_ | don't tempt me |
| 21:27.46 | carmony | tempts* |
| 21:27.54 | mindjuju | heh |
| 21:28.25 | tierra | alright, everyone that has a mac, I have a brand spankin' new alpha release of Phoenix Project Manager, never before seen on more than 2 Macs... anyone that wants to give it run can download it here : http://www.phoenixcpm.com/downloads/Phoenix%20Setup%201.4.0.21.dmg |
| 21:28.43 | mgeary | tierra: tempt us |
| 21:29.05 | tierra | (10MB 10.4 universal binary, but there's a chance it will run on 10.3 if someone with one wants to take a try) |
| 21:29.37 | tierra | it's a 30-day full-featured trial |
| 21:29.57 | tierra | if you want a key though, let me know, I've got some alpha release keys to hand out |
| 21:30.15 | tierra | $600 piece of software, free :) |
| 21:30.32 | mgeary | ...for 30 days |
| 21:30.46 | tierra | no, unlimited, I said I'd hand out keys if you cared |
| 21:30.52 | mgeary | aha |
| 21:31.00 | tierra | it's 30 days unless it's activated |
| 21:31.10 | mgeary | features? |
| 21:31.25 | tierra | http://www.phoenixcpm.com/productInfo/overview.php |
| 21:31.28 | tierra | ;) |
| 21:31.37 | _psychic_ | tierra: I'm down |
| 21:32.21 | mgeary | tierra: you sole developer on this? Looks like a lot of work |
| 21:32.47 | tierra | I'm the sole Mac developer, yes, but I've got a couple coworkers helping on the Windows side |
| 21:33.10 | tierra | they've been busy with Phoenix 2.0 though |
| 21:33.10 | mindjuju | look at these sexy screenshots of the program! - http://www.phoenixcpm.com/productInfo/screenshots.php |
| 21:33.51 | mgeary | speaking of Mac + Win, i had fun running Fallout Tactics on my Mac last night using Crossover Games |
| 21:33.56 | mgeary | worked like a charm |
| 21:34.04 | mgeary | though it presumably would have in Parallels as well |
| 21:34.25 | tierra | oh yeah, I should post the known issues with the alpha release... |
| 21:36.48 | tierra | http://www.phoenixcpm.com/downloads/Known_Mac_Issues |
| 21:38.18 | tierra | itimber ^ |
| 21:38.34 | itimber | reading |
| 21:38.47 | itimber | why.... you know I just installed??? |
| 21:38.48 | itimber | LOL |
| 21:39.13 | mindjuju | yeah, and he just turned on your iCam and he's watching and listening to you |
| 21:39.23 | carmony | I guess I wouldn't be so upset with Obama if crap like this wasn't going on: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/04/broken-machines-shortages-plague-voters-country/ |
| 21:39.24 | tierra | hehe |
| 21:39.30 | itimber | green LED is off..... :P |
| 21:40.35 | mindjuju | heh, ever heard of Back Orifice ? It turns on web cams without activating the lights |
| 21:41.05 | itimber | tierra.... what's the point of the "Change Install Location" button on the install if I can't install it on any other partitions? |
| 21:41.57 | tierra | that's a standard Mac installer page, some people have other disk images or thumb drives hooked up |
| 21:42.07 | unum | carmony: did you not hear about the flier is philadelphia |
| 21:42.23 | unum | both sides do and there is no good reason to blame the presidential candidates |
| 21:42.59 | itimber | :) |
| 21:43.17 | tierra | I'd force an "Easy Install" too if I was able to use OSX distributions instead of a metapackage, but distributions aren't supported on 10.3 |
| 21:43.37 | tierra | metapackage == more compatibility |
| 21:44.30 | tierra | oh, yeah, and install does require a restart for those that didn't already run into it (sorry) |
| 21:45.20 | tierra | heh |
| 21:47.36 | tierra | oh yeah, and I should put up a sample project so you have something to play with rather than a new project |
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| 21:52.58 | tierra | http://www.phoenixcpm.com/downloads/Sunrise%20Hotel%20and%20Casino.ppx <- sample project |
| 21:55.08 | fungus | I haven't downloaded it, but why would an non-system application install require a reboot |
| 21:55.14 | mgeary | yeah |
| 21:55.16 | mgeary | i hate that |
| 21:55.29 | tierra | it includes a startup daemon for copy protection |
| 21:55.36 | fungus | ahh |
| 21:55.37 | mgeary | bah |
| 21:55.51 | mgeary | YAACPD |
| 21:56.11 | tierra | so does our Windows release, but Mac isn't as nice about starting up daemons on install rather than reboot |
| 21:57.29 | tierra | at least the installer on Mac is a little smarter about knowing what's been installed already... when I do new builds, you just uncheck the daemon (which is normally required, but it knows it's installed already), and it doesn't require reboot |
| 21:59.14 | tierra | this isn't cheap, simple, everyday user software... I have some vested interest in making sure it doesn't hit the streets like Adobe CS2 or something |
| 21:59.45 | mgeary | understandable |
| 21:59.57 | mgeary | though i have yet to see the copy protection device that has stood the test of time |
| 22:00.13 | tierra | the last 5 years of my life have gone into this software, and we still haven't even seen some ROI yet |
| 22:00.29 | mgeary | you funded? |
| 22:00.33 | tierra | yep |
| 22:00.44 | mgeary | nice |
| 22:03.14 | itimber | his copy protection doesn't have to stand the test of time.... it just has to stand long enough for him to make $249,999.99 /yr |
| 22:03.16 | itimber | :) |
| 22:03.20 | itimber | jk unum |
| 22:03.24 | mgeary | hahah |
| 22:03.47 | tierra | itimber makes the correct point though, it's there to keep the honest people honest |
| 22:04.19 | mgeary | sure. i just wish it wasn't at the cost of yet another daemon perpetually running on my machine |
| 22:04.21 | tierra | although, honestly I think you would have a hard time finding someone who could crack Phoenix Project Manager on Windows |
| 22:06.15 | tierra | I don't have that kind of assurance with the Mac OS X build though, I'm sure it's easy to break |
| 22:07.34 | itimber | who's your competition tierra?? |
| 22:07.41 | itimber | for this software? |
| 22:08.01 | fungus | MS Project for one |
| 22:08.01 | mgeary | MS Project |
| 22:08.14 | mgeary | Omni has also got one |
| 22:08.25 | mgeary | (might be Mac-only) |
| 22:08.36 | tierra | Primavera mostly, but yes, also MS Project and AEC Software on the Mac side |
| 22:09.06 | itimber | well, we all know how much MS likes to produce a quality product |
| 22:09.07 | itimber | :) |
| 22:09.16 | tierra | Omni is Mac-only, and they're like the MS Project of Mac, so we're not worried about them |
| 22:09.49 | itimber | what does yours have over Primavera? |
| 22:10.45 | tierra | well, it has a modern UI for one - they're still back on Win16 controls (the ones used for Windows 3.11) |
| 22:10.47 | fungus | tierra: double clicking the project file only works if the application was already running |
| 22:11.01 | tierra | fungus: thanks fungus |
| 22:11.06 | tierra | er, yeah, thanks |
| 22:11.06 | tierra | heh |
| 22:11.15 | itimber | hehe |
| 22:11.23 | itimber | so you're pushing the UI |
| 22:11.38 | tierra | yeah, I realize the UI on Mac is horrid |
| 22:11.45 | tierra | if that's where you're going ;) |
| 22:12.19 | itimber | no.... I'm just asking about it before putting in a ton of frontloading of data |
| 22:12.32 | itimber | and also curious since you have a vested interest |
| 22:12.43 | itimber | want to see you succeed |
| 22:13.03 | SunSparc | ~succeed tierra |
| 22:13.30 | SunSparc | Is supersede better than succeed? |
| 22:14.03 | tierra | well, mostly as a replacement for Primavera, we wanted to push for a friendly UI because Primavera never had much interaction with the objects on the screen, and they also never had stuff like undo/redo or "save file" (as it does continuous saves to a DB file format) |
| 22:14.18 | tierra | so that without undo/redo is a real killer |
| 22:15.36 | fungus | well, I can say it even runs on an old G4 Mac mini on 10.4 |
| 22:15.45 | tierra | :) |
| 22:16.30 | mgeary | when does the iPhone version come out? |
| 22:16.34 | mgeary | ;) |
| 22:17.09 | tierra | haha, we had considered doing a Palm/WinCE version at one point, well before we realized we didn't have the resources to pull it off |
| 22:17.34 | carmony | you don't want to know what I think of Apple and the iPhone |
| 22:17.38 | carmony | SDK wise |
| 22:17.50 | mgeary | that bad? |
| 22:18.08 | tierra | did I mention in this channel in the past about how Apple screwed me over? |
| 22:18.15 | mgeary | don't recall |
| 22:18.55 | tierra | well, this application I'm trying to get everyone to place with is mostly powered by the Carbon API, and that's going to be dropped after Snow Leopard |
| 22:19.22 | mgeary | "trying to get everyone to place with" ? |
| 22:19.28 | tierra | *play |
| 22:19.37 | mgeary | aha |
| 22:19.56 | mgeary | really? No Carbon apps after Snow Leopard? |
| 22:20.14 | SunSparc | carmony: what do you think of Apple and the iPhone? |
| 22:20.22 | tierra | so basically, if I want to keep up on these Mac releases, I'm going to be spending a ton of time over the next 2-3 years learning Obj-C and Cocoa |
| 22:21.15 | tierra | well, 32bit Carbon apps _might_ continue to be supported, but as far as I've heard from Apple, they're already having a hard time keeping up with 32bit carbon support in Snow Leopard |
| 22:21.27 | tierra | so I doubt it |
| 22:22.01 | carmony | SunSparc: I think Apple handle the whole iPhone SDK poorly, they are uber control freaks, and in the end it is just one giant headache for developers... |
| 22:22.38 | SunSparc | carmony: Hmm, well, I guess I will find out, since I was wanting to jump into it sometime soon. |
| 22:22.59 | carmony | SunSparc: it has gotten *somewhat* better since they lifted the NDA |
| 22:23.09 | SunSparc | Good to know. |
| 22:23.24 | SunSparc | carmony: http://games.mediarain.com/cod4stats/ |
| 22:23.29 | carmony | But if Apple where to replace Microsoft today, I think it would be a terrible day in the Software world |
| 22:23.57 | carmony | lol, my goal is to beat you SunSparc |
| 22:24.03 | SunSparc | hehe |
| 22:24.08 | SunSparc | You are almost there :) |
| 22:24.26 | SunSparc | At least in kill/death ratio |
| 22:26.03 | carmony | lol, here is an interesting stat for _psychic_ |
| 22:26.07 | carmony | http://games.mediarain.com/cod4stats/players.php?sorting=Teamkills |
| 22:27.08 | SunSparc | hehe, yeah, he has quite a few of teamkills. |
| 22:32.18 | SunSparc | Still, it happens to the best of us. |
| 22:41.52 | mgeary | ~seen dataw0lf |
| 22:41.53 | jbot | dataw0lf <n=stderr@truedat.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 5d 5h 41m 45s ago, saying: 'Better than SVN.'. |
| 22:42.35 | orsonj | which one is psychic? |
| 22:43.18 | SunSparc | orsonj: bean |
| 22:43.36 | beandog | eh |
| 22:44.51 | itimber | for about 60 seconds, it hailed in Ogden |
| 22:45.47 | itimber | oop... more hail |
| 22:46.24 | itimber | tiny pieces though.... perhaps this is more of a freezing rain |
| 22:47.32 | beandog | its a sign you should vote for superdell |
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| 22:51.59 | tierra | fungus: do projects open with Phoenix closed after the first run? |
| 22:52.03 | tierra | seems to work fine here |
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| 22:52.54 | SunSparc | ~wb wps |
| 22:53.06 | wps | coming to you live from my new MBP |
| 22:53.20 | wps | mgeary, the screen isn't as bad as I thought |
| 22:53.21 | wps | I'm torn |
| 22:53.26 | wps | I hate the glare, but⦠|
| 22:53.44 | wps | it's not as bad as I thought it would be |
| 22:53.46 | mgeary | how's the LED approach? |
| 22:53.53 | wps | amazing |
| 22:53.55 | SunSparc | Tell us, wps, how bad IS the glare? |
| 22:54.03 | mgeary | does it seem brighter than previous gens? |
| 22:54.16 | fungus | tierra: it might be related to the trial version window that pops up. |
| 22:54.33 | wps | twice as bright |
| 22:54.34 | wps | it's amazing |
| 22:54.35 | SunSparc | Does it still look good at different vertical angles? |
| 22:55.00 | mgeary | does it drive you crazy not to have a *click* on the touchpad? |
| 22:55.03 | wps | the glare increase when you are looking at the screen at a sharp angle, but how often are you doing that? |
| 22:55.04 | mgeary | i had tap-clicking |
| 22:55.08 | mgeary | s/had/hate |
| 22:55.26 | mgeary | hate hate hate tap-clicking |
| 22:55.39 | mgeary | almost as much as i hate using a mouse with a laptop |
| 22:55.41 | wps | this screen next to my early 2008 MBP, makes the early 2008 MBP screen look like it is on half-brightness even when it's on full |
| 22:55.44 | wps | this screen is gorgeous |
| 22:56.17 | wps | if having this bright, vibrant, rich display requires a little glare, I'll take the little bit of glare |
| 22:56.23 | wps | I think I'm sold on glossy |
| 22:56.37 | mgeary | bah |
| 22:56.40 | wps | I wish there was a way to have the richness without the glare, but alas, this is awesome |
| 22:57.05 | wps | the trackpad is just fineâ¦Â if you don't look down, you don't notice that it's any different from before |
| 22:57.18 | mgeary | do you *feel* the click? |
| 22:57.29 | orsonj | when sitting in a room with blinds mostly closed behind you, it bugs, and I sit in that room for a few hours a day |
| 22:57.31 | wps | yupâ¦Â just like the actual button on the previous model |
| 22:57.36 | mgeary | ah |
| 22:57.39 | mgeary | okay, that's alright then |
| 22:57.41 | mgeary | whew |
| 22:57.51 | mgeary | so is the whole touchpad a button then? |
| 22:57.52 | wps | the entire trackpad moves down and physically clicks |
| 22:57.55 | wps | yes |
| 22:58.05 | wps | I do too, jsmith |
| 22:58.11 | wps | but the richness of this screen really is nice |
| 22:58.13 | itimber | same |
| 22:59.04 | orsonj | someone needs to make a black shirt with "Glossy" in white text in mirror image |
| 23:00.18 | SunSparc | That is a pretty big button. The trackpad. Can you press it anywhere with minimal effort? |
| 23:00.54 | wps | no, SunSparc |
| 23:00.57 | wps | it hinges from the top |
| 23:01.05 | wps | so pressing it up at the very top is a little difficult |
| 23:01.11 | SunSparc | hmm |
| 23:01.20 | SunSparc | Overall impression of the trackpad? |
| 23:01.31 | wps | I think it's great |
| 23:01.34 | wps | no complaints |
| 23:01.51 | wps | kind of nice not to have to make sure you're on the button |
| 23:01.57 | wps | you can click anywhere |
| 23:02.07 | wps | and, now that it's virtual, you can enable a right-click |
| 23:02.11 | wps | ie: two buttons |
| 23:02.36 | fungus | yay, finally two buttons |
| 23:02.45 | mgeary | meh |
| 23:02.51 | mgeary | ctrl-click works fine for me |
| 23:04.15 | wps | same, mgearyâ¦Â but the concept is cool. Like the iPhone, the possibilities with a virtual canvass are very open |
| 23:04.45 | mgeary | true |
| 23:04.59 | mgeary | so how all does it support multi-touch? |
| 23:11.02 | orsonj | http://orson.tetratech.info/glossy.png <-- Glossy screen detector |
| 23:12.07 | mgeary | heh |
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| 23:36.00 | wps | the case of the new MBP is gorgeous |
| 23:36.25 | wps | the beveled edges make it look a lot thinner than the previous model (even though it's really just barely thinner) |
| 23:36.35 | wps | and the unibody is awesomeâ¦Â no seams anywhere |
| 23:37.10 | wps | and the chicklet keys are way better |
| 23:37.36 | jsmith | Maybe I can give my laptop to my new employee and get myself an upgrade... |
| 23:38.29 | wps | so when the hardware-order lady handed me the new machine, she gave me an ID sticker to put on the back |
| 23:38.33 | wps | I can't bring myself to do it |
| 23:39.01 | jsmith | wps: Put it under the battery. |
| 23:39.06 | wps | I'm trying to decide how much trouble I would get in if I put it inside the battery compartment instead |
| 23:39.29 | jsmith | wps: If it's there, it's actually more likely to be found by a buyer if it get stolen |
| 23:39.46 | jsmith | wps: Otherwise, the thief would just remove the sticker before selling it |
| 23:39.52 | wps | true |
| 23:40.29 | wps | smart idea |
| 23:40.32 | wps | it kills me that I have to install XP on here just to run Visio |
| 23:40.33 | wps | :( |
| 23:40.42 | orsonj | crossover? |
| 23:41.09 | wps | I haven't tried that yet |
| 23:41.10 | orsonj | I'm sure you could find someone who got a free copy of it a few days ago |
| 23:41.11 | wps | have you? |
| 23:41.21 | wps | I heard it was terribly buggy |
| 23:41.47 | orsonj | I haven't tried it, but I registered for the free keys anyway. |
| 23:47.05 | SunSparc | wps: Omni Graffle is not too bad. |
| 23:48.00 | wps | I love Omni Graffle but it doesn't work with these files |
| 23:48.04 | itimber | I got it for Internet Explorer testing.... LOVE IT |
| 23:48.15 | wps | it can't open these new 2007 ones and is read-only anyway |
| 23:48.20 | wps | yes, itimber? working well? |
| 23:48.22 | wps | no issues? |
| 23:48.28 | itimber | none for me |
| 23:48.38 | itimber | and 10x faster than Parallels |
| 23:49.03 | wps | I don't know why anyone would use Parallels with VirtualBox as an option |
| 23:49.10 | wps | VirtualBox is better and is free |
| 23:49.26 | wps | my biggest frustration with virtualization is it using up so much of your processor |
| 23:49.39 | wps | dangâ¦Â I should have grabbed one of those free codes last week |
| 23:50.28 | tonedevf | I've found the biggest bottle neck of any modest virtualization rig to be disk i/o |
| 23:55.52 | _psychic_ | carmony: my TKs are from two things |
| 23:55.57 | _psychic_ | 1: marty |
| 23:56.04 | _psychic_ | 2: retaliatory measures |
| 23:57.39 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 23:57.39 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 23:58.27 | wps | you guys hear about that add that was run yesterday over the air and on youtube against the LDS Church, regarding prop 8? |
| 23:58.38 | wps | I don't care how you feel about the issue, that was low |
| 23:58.52 | wps | I can't believe someone would stoop to that level |
| 23:59.11 | mgeary | with the missionaries? |
| 23:59.22 | wps | yes |
| 23:59.28 | mgeary | yeah, it was on Digg this morning |
| 23:59.41 | mgeary | definitely in poor taste, imo |
