| 01:33.19 | *** join/#uphpu jgiboney (n=IceChat7@33.255.sfcn.org) |
| 01:37.35 | mindjuju | sup jgiboney |
| 01:37.44 | jgiboney | not much |
| 01:37.54 | jgiboney | how about you? |
| 01:38.07 | mindjuju | just wrapping up a project for today |
| 01:38.15 | jgiboney | awesome |
| 01:38.37 | mindjuju | u |
| 01:39.03 | jgiboney | learning to add/remove elements via javascript to a page |
| 01:39.12 | mindjuju | oh cool |
| 01:39.20 | jgiboney | yep |
| 01:39.37 | mindjuju | getElementById ? |
| 01:39.51 | mindjuju | or using something like jquery or another JS framework? |
| 01:40.17 | jgiboney | nope, just by name <form name="theForm"> script= document.theForm |
| 01:44.28 | jgiboney | is there a form validator out there somewhere... something that makes sure that a form only accepts certain things and makes sure that stuff gets added (or removed) to a database? |
| 01:45.25 | mindjuju | hmmm... yes there is, but it should be used CAREFULLY |
| 01:45.33 | mindjuju | first the why, then the method |
| 01:45.39 | mindjuju | clients can not be trusted |
| 01:45.56 | mindjuju | JS can be hacked, negated, etc |
| 01:46.04 | mindjuju | so don't depend on JS to do your validation |
| 01:46.23 | mindjuju | you should sanitize anything before working with it, if it came from a client |
| 01:46.30 | mindjuju | now that said, a little JS can be good |
| 01:46.38 | mindjuju | like making sure that certain fields are filled out |
| 01:46.56 | mindjuju | and you could even put in a type validator to make sure they put nums in the phone box |
| 01:47.13 | mindjuju | but on the backend, i'd do a second round of verification / validation |
| 01:47.21 | jgiboney | I just ask because I have an interview on Thursday for a QA position that uses AJAX and I am not exactly sure what they do (software wise) so I am playing around and seeing if I can validate a form |
| 01:48.31 | mindjuju | well, you could use a framework for that |
| 01:48.38 | mindjuju | josephscott recommends jquery |
| 01:48.49 | mindjuju | last i remember dataw0lf uses mootools |
| 01:48.56 | mindjuju | i personally hand roll my JS |
| 01:49.29 | jgiboney | i'll look into those |
| 01:51.59 | DexterTheDragon | ~jquery++ |
| 01:52.41 | mindjuju | dexterthedragon, will jquery do validation? |
| 01:53.32 | DexterTheDragon | yeah |
| 01:53.32 | DexterTheDragon | jquery will do anything |
| 01:53.32 | jgiboney | lol |
| 01:54.51 | jgiboney | can it beat the world's greatest chess master? |
| 01:55.25 | mindjuju | prolly |
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| 01:59.18 | jgiboney | k so I found a page where jquery validates input from a form (http://docs.jquery.com/Plugins/Validation), but if I have to validate that some other programmer built a good form, could I still use jquery |
| 01:59.47 | mindjuju | como? |
| 02:00.25 | mindjuju | so if a previous programmer built a web page with a form, cna you still use jquery to validate that form? |
| 02:00.48 | jgiboney | I want to break another programmer's form (for QA purposes) |
| 02:00.59 | jgiboney | but i don't want to do it by hand |
| 02:01.07 | jgiboney | maybe validate was the wrong word to use |
| 02:01.16 | mindjuju | uh |
| 02:01.23 | mindjuju | i think it's selenium you want |
| 02:01.34 | mindjuju | QA tester for websites |
| 02:01.40 | mindjuju | that also happens to rock |
| 02:01.46 | mindjuju | that also happens to be written in JS |
| 02:01.52 | mindjuju | that also happens to be automated |
| 02:02.08 | jgiboney | awesome |
| 02:02.13 | mindjuju | http://selenium.openqa.org/ |
| 02:03.20 | mindjuju | so what selenium does is that it will put crap data and otherwise test websites and, i can't remember how sophisicated a logging it does, but it seems like it does do |
| 02:03.32 | jgiboney | sweet |
| 02:03.41 | jgiboney | i am watching the intro now |
| 02:08.48 | jgiboney | that looks cool |
| 02:09.23 | mindjuju | yeah, we had a present on it not too long ago |
| 02:09.37 | mindjuju | brb |
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| 02:29.25 | DexterTheDragon | mindjuju: this Tolgar techno is the bomb |
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| 14:22.06 | carmony | good morning |
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| 14:24.42 | tonedevf1 | mornin' |
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| 14:32.46 | Utah_Dave | morning |
| 14:32.52 | jgiboney | morning |
| 14:43.48 | mindjuju | morning gents |
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| 14:49.56 | macnewbold | ~yow |
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| 15:04.27 | itimber | morning guys |
| 15:04.36 | mgeary | hi y'all |
| 15:04.46 | mgeary | everyone seen this: http://down.codeweavers.com/ ? |
| 15:04.52 | mgeary | free stuff |
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| 15:24.14 | mindjuju | mgeary, what is it, it isn't coming up |
| 15:32.00 | itimber | free copies of CrossOver |
| 15:32.06 | itimber | for mac or linux |
| 15:32.23 | itimber | w/ Serial Numbers |
| 15:33.54 | mgeary_ | yep |
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| 15:35.46 | itimber | try it again mindjuju, it's loading for me |
| 15:36.01 | carmony | k, anyone know a way possible to prevent a form from submitting when a user hits "enter" while a specific textbox has focus? :P |
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| 15:42.20 | mindjuju | carmony, yes |
| 15:42.33 | carmony | how? :) |
| 15:42.38 | mindjuju | using JS, you can do an onSubmit that calls a function |
| 15:42.47 | mindjuju | where that function could check ... err... |
| 15:42.58 | mindjuju | i'm not sure if it can check what form element has focus |
| 15:43.09 | mindjuju | never tried that |
| 15:43.12 | carmony | well, I could have a variable set to true on focus. |
| 15:43.18 | carmony | and false on blue |
| 15:43.20 | mindjuju | ah yes, true that |
| 15:43.21 | carmony | blur* |
| 15:43.28 | mindjuju | yup, you're right |
| 15:43.31 | mindjuju | :) |
| 15:43.40 | carmony | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarggggggggggg! damn it, my Zend Studio froze :( |
| 15:44.28 | _psychic_ | $bloatedJavaIDE-- |
| 15:45.05 | carmony | lol |
| 15:47.52 | carmony | well I like it :p |
| 15:47.59 | carmony | I haven't found anything better |
| 15:49.36 | DexterTheDragon | vim |
| 15:49.51 | fungus | emacs |
| 15:50.02 | carmony | I don't mean any disrespect, but I *hate* vim and emacs :P |
| 15:50.06 | DexterTheDragon | cat |
| 15:50.43 | jsmith | edlin? |
| 15:51.00 | mindjuju | vim sounds like a sound like a sound used for meditation |
| 15:51.13 | fungus | Which is why it is so good |
| 15:51.36 | mindjuju | hey utah_dave or the formerly present jsmith-away, have a quick question about telephones, ya'll might know |
| 15:51.42 | fungus | vim is Zen |
| 15:52.37 | mindjuju | if a business has digital lines setup for their internal phones, and they call out from a phone that is "digital" does it remain digital if it is on a voice T1 ? |
| 15:52.40 | mindjuju | i'm thinking no |
| 15:53.02 | mindjuju | but that's just me thinking with absolutely no experience in telephones, other than the general operation there of |
| 15:53.23 | Utah_Dave | do you mean once it leaves the T1? |
| 15:54.19 | mindjuju | yeah i guess |
| 15:54.27 | mindjuju | so like if i called you, and my phone line is digital |
| 15:54.36 | mindjuju | will it remain digital all the way to you? |
| 15:55.11 | Utah_Dave | no, it will use whatever transport the Telco uses. |
| 15:55.45 | mindjuju | k, so after it leaves my office, somewhere there is a stepdown to what ever the telco uses, prolly analog |
| 15:56.08 | mindjuju | unless we have something setup special that connects you and me digitally |
| 15:56.18 | Utah_Dave | right |
| 15:56.22 | mindjuju | :) |
| 15:56.31 | mindjuju | guess my figurin' ain't far off! |
| 15:56.33 | Utah_Dave | Are you hoping to do something in particular? |
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| 15:56.59 | mindjuju | well, we record audio from conference calls, and since the conference bridge is a service |
| 15:57.19 | mindjuju | i was arguing that its coming to us over analog, so it doesn't matter if we get it over an analog line or a digital one |
| 15:57.41 | mindjuju | since digital would only play a factor if the source were digital |
| 15:58.23 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, I don't think it would matter. |
| 15:58.29 | mindjuju | conf bridge is a service - by that i meant, it's some 3rd party company wiht an 800 num that everybody calls into |
| 15:58.36 | mindjuju | yeah, that's what i think, it no matter |
| 15:58.45 | Utah_Dave | Unless your digital lines have better audio quality in general |
| 15:59.07 | Utah_Dave | but if you don't hear a difference, then you won't hear a difference in the recording either |
| 15:59.14 | mindjuju | k |
| 15:59.44 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: you ought to build your own conference server! |
| 16:00.04 | mindjuju | is it easy? |
| 16:00.57 | mindjuju | we'd prolly have to have much better internet connection coming in |
| 16:01.58 | Utah_Dave | well, it depends on how many people you want to have in the conference room at a time. |
| 16:02.26 | Utah_Dave | More people means you need better hardware, obviously |
| 16:03.12 | Utah_Dave | Doesn't your service offer recording of your conferences? |
| 16:09.18 | mindjuju | we record it actually |
| 16:09.32 | mindjuju | because some of the participants are in the office, and we put them on nice mics |
| 16:09.45 | mindjuju | the people on the telephone bridge are clients |
| 16:09.51 | mindjuju | so, they are mainly listening |
| 16:10.28 | Utah_Dave | right. That's cool |
| 16:11.39 | mindjuju | on some of the conference calls, we'll have near a hundred people |
| 16:11.46 | mindjuju | would we need crazy phat pipe for that? |
| 16:15.10 | thebigdog | codeweavers offering free downloads |
| 16:15.17 | thebigdog | get it while its hot |
| 16:15.25 | mindjuju | yeah, mgeary posted it like an hour ago |
| 16:15.30 | mindjuju | still haven't found what they do though |
| 16:16.05 | DexterTheDragon | codeweavers is a commercial version of wine. runs windows programs on linux/mac |
| 16:16.38 | thebigdog | pretty good version too |
| 16:17.58 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: yeah, you would need a decent pipe. |
| 16:18.51 | mindjuju | still though, an interesting idea |
| 16:18.58 | mindjuju | i'd like to explore that a little |
| 16:20.23 | mindjuju | a little bird tells me that macnewbold is in REAL need of a good LART |
| 16:20.27 | mindjuju | ~lart macnewbold |
| 16:20.27 | jbot | nabs the moon and broadsides macnewbold with the sea of tranquility |
| 16:21.15 | DexterTheDragon | ah patch tuesday |
| 16:21.34 | mindjuju | sadly, this is the emergency patch that came out last week |
| 16:21.43 | mindjuju | but i NEVER patch on the first several days |
| 16:21.51 | mindjuju | i've done that before and foobed a server |
| 16:22.08 | DexterTheDragon | so its patch tuesday a week behind |
| 16:22.14 | tonedevf1 | aye, the one last week is a gnarly one |
| 16:22.14 | mindjuju | yup |
| 16:22.31 | mindjuju | any probs tonedevf? |
| 16:22.36 | mindjuju | anything i should be aware of? |
| 16:22.48 | mindjuju | just getting ready to start launching the patch, haven't done it yet |
| 16:23.35 | mindjuju | patching winders is a dangerous / scary task |
| 16:26.55 | tonedevf1 | no problems with last week's patch |
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| 16:27.46 | tonedevf1 | i haven't been burned by a winders patch in a few years now. in general i agree with the wait-a-few-days strategy. |
| 16:27.49 | mindjuju | oh good, that's what i've seen so far, serious, but patch works well |
| 16:28.53 | tonedevf1 | be aware that last week's patch is also important for workstations, especially if their firewall is off or allowing inbound SMB |
| 16:35.42 | tonedevf1 | hey now, be nice! |
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| 16:47.20 | jsmith-away | mindjuju: Did you get your phone questions answered? |
| 16:49.51 | carmony | ANyone here excited for Fallout 3? :P |
| 16:50.08 | mgeary_ | i am |
| 16:50.15 | mgeary_ | except i don't really have a PC box |
| 16:50.26 | mgeary_ | but F3 might convince me to do bootcamp on my MBP |
| 16:50.47 | mgeary_ | F1 and F2 are awesome games. Inspired by the ancient game Wasteland, which is still one of the best RPGs evar |
| 16:51.04 | mgeary_ | i bought it for the Apple II back in '86 or so |
| 16:51.16 | mgeary_ | still play it in emulation every couple of years |
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| 16:53.56 | carmony | lol, well if you have a PS3 or 360, you can play it on there too :) |
| 16:54.01 | mgeary_ | bah |
| 16:54.05 | mgeary_ | gaming consoles-- |
| 16:55.04 | mgeary_ | how big's the download? |
| 16:56.20 | dataw0lf | mmmm Fallout 3 is going to be amazing. |
| 16:56.27 | dataw0lf | Bethesda is behind it. |
| 16:56.31 | dataw0lf | win 3 |
| 16:58.17 | carmony | 7GB |
| 16:59.59 | mgeary_ | jeeze, 7GB. I don't have that much space on my MBP |
| 17:00.34 | dataw0lf | what gen MBP do you have, mgeary? |
| 17:00.41 | mgeary_ | 2nd |
| 17:00.55 | dataw0lf | word |
| 17:00.57 | mgeary_ | believe 2nd. It's the 2.33 Ghz C2D |
| 17:01.09 | mgeary_ | exactly 2 years old now |
| 17:01.17 | dataw0lf | ah good. That '2' makes a huge difference. |
| 17:01.23 | mgeary_ | yep |
| 17:01.51 | mgeary_ | been a great machine, though when i use Handbrake to rip DVDs, i do feel the drain on the CPU with other apps |
| 17:02.16 | dataw0lf | the performance on my mb has been great |
| 17:02.57 | dataw0lf | I can play Civ IV while streaming HD videos to my xbox 360 smoothly |
| 17:03.11 | mgeary_ | yeah, but streaming != ripping |
| 17:03.15 | dataw0lf | this app that does the streaming is amazing at performance, actually. |
| 17:03.17 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 17:03.20 | beandog | ~tunarip |
| 17:03.23 | dataw0lf | well, obviously not. |
| 17:03.48 | dataw0lf | but I background transcoding processes all the time |
| 17:04.01 | carmony | anyone here use steam? |
| 17:04.23 | mgeary | i've been putting all my DVDs on to a Mac Mini server at my house, and i use iTunes to stream out movies to my laptop |
| 17:04.37 | mgeary | it's my first step in getting a digital home theater set up |
| 17:05.36 | dataw0lf | Ah yea. I need mope storage. |
| 17:05.45 | dataw0lf | getting an external RAID enclosure most likely. |
| 17:06.07 | dataw0lf | I've starting actually filling up my laptop because I'm running out of space, and that's unacceptable. |
| 17:06.12 | dataw0lf | s/starting/started |
| 17:06.20 | mgeary | drobo++ |
| 17:06.52 | mgeary | i've now got 2.7TB in a drobo that is (presumably) giving me all kinds of upgradeability and data protection |
| 17:07.17 | dataw0lf | yea, I was looking at the Drobo, it's a nice little device. |
| 17:07.37 | dataw0lf | I have about 2 terabytes completely filled. |
| 17:08.17 | mgeary | that 2.7 is coming from 4 1-TB drives. But the nice thing about drobo is that when larger drives become available, i can just swap them out |
| 17:19.55 | mindjuju | jsmith, it did get answered |
| 17:19.56 | mindjuju | thx! |
| 17:21.12 | jsmith | mindjuju: No worries... you caught me at lunch |
| 17:22.47 | Utah_Dave | $85 billion divided by 200 million != $475,000 |
| 17:23.53 | Utah_Dave | some idiot who can't do math wrote some blog post about dividing AIG's 85 billion bailout package among all US adults instead, and now it's being passed around the internet like it's gospel truth |
| 17:24.01 | mgeary | oh lordy |
| 17:24.23 | mgeary | well... this may be the reason-- in Europe, a "billion" is what we call a trillion |
| 17:24.33 | mgeary | they call our billion "a thousand million" |
| 17:24.42 | mgeary | so that may contribute to the issue |
| 17:24.55 | Utah_Dave | could be. |
| 17:25.05 | mgeary | that goes for England as well as the Continent |
| 17:25.14 | fungus | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales |
| 17:25.18 | mgeary | however, i'm betting this is more likely stupidity at work |
| 17:26.06 | mgeary | nice, fungus |
| 17:26.25 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, I'm sure it's stupidity at work, since it's discuss the AIG bailout here in the U.S. |
| 17:27.39 | _psychic_ | Maybe it's a literary device used to highlight the innate stupidity of the bailout itself. :) |
| 17:28.01 | fungus | Possible |
| 17:28.04 | carmony | lol |
| 17:28.09 | Utah_Dave | _psychic_: could be. I did some googling, and I think I might have found the original article |
| 17:28.34 | Utah_Dave | at the very bottom he says something like the only problem is the math |
| 17:28.37 | carmony | ;) jk |
| 17:28.45 | fungus | but implementing factual errors, not just exaggeration, to illustrate a point is still stupid |
| 17:30.29 | Utah_Dave | fungus: I agree. |
| 17:30.37 | carmony | Utah_Dave, whats the link? |
| 17:30.53 | Utah_Dave | carmony: I'm looking for it again. I found it last night |
| 17:31.35 | carmony | funny thing is, its 475 per adult, which is about the same as the $500 yearly |
| 17:31.42 | carmony | "tax cut" under Obama |
| 17:32.37 | mgeary | well, you know... |
| 17:32.58 | mgeary | if all those companies that aren't paying ANY US taxes had their loopholes closed, it'd probably vastly more than make up for the difference |
| 17:33.03 | carmony | I'll be happy when the election is over |
| 17:33.19 | carmony | mgeary, like what companies? |
| 17:34.08 | Utah_Dave | amen, jsmith |
| 17:34.39 | mgeary | carmony: looking for the link. It was in the news a week or two ago. Reported that a huge percentage of all US companies basically pay no taxes |
| 17:34.48 | mgeary | as a company owner that DOES pay taxes, that ticks me off a bit |
| 17:35.30 | mgeary | yeah |
| 17:35.35 | mgeary | here it is. NY Times article |
| 17:35.39 | mgeary | http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/business/13tax.html?_r=2&ref=business&oref=slogin&oref=slogin |
| 17:35.48 | mgeary | "Two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005, according to a report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress" |
| 17:36.21 | jsmith | That could be misleading though, as how many of those are actually profitable? |
| 17:36.49 | jsmith | I'd be more interested in the number of *profitable* corporations paying (or not paying) any taxes |
| 17:36.53 | mgeary | how long can 66% of all businesses continue to operate without making a profie |
| 17:36.59 | mgeary | profit* |
| 17:37.09 | _psychic_ | maybe they're non-profits :) |
| 17:37.15 | jsmith | mgeary: I think you underestimate the number of small businesses on the books that aren't in real operations |
| 17:37.55 | mgeary | besides, i suspect that it's a numbers game. like when Sony pictures says that Spider-Man 1 didn't make a profit, so they didn't have to pay Stan Lee anything |
| 17:38.13 | jsmith | mgeary: I'm sure that's part of it |
| 17:40.15 | _psychic_ | But isn't that kind of the point? That these people are playing games to dodge paying taxes? |
| 17:40.40 | carmony | I agree that I think the tax laws are WAY to complicated |
| 17:42.47 | carmony | my father-in-law says the problem is that congress keeps passing laws that are impossible to enforce and are filled with loop holes. The people making the laws are very out of touch with actual accounting. |
| 17:43.10 | jsmith | carmony: I've heard the same thing from a number of people |
| 17:43.15 | dataw0lf | I've convinced pretty much every member of my old squad to donate to Barack. |
| 17:43.25 | mgeary | it probably doesn't help that lobbyists and vested-interest companies are WRITING those laws that congress passes |
| 17:43.44 | carmony | mgeary: amen. |
| 17:43.44 | mgeary | dataw0lf: didja get one of the t-shirts? we're still waiting for ours |
| 17:44.56 | dataw0lf | mgeary: nope |
| 17:45.09 | carmony | I think so sum up why I won't vote for Obama is this: Obama has socialist ideas, you can call it whatever you like, but they really are socialist. I have yet to see a successful socialist country yet. I don't think those ideals will work out the way they are intended here in the US. |
| 17:45.25 | mgeary | ~subscribe carmony to the right-wing talking points |
| 17:45.42 | dataw0lf | yes, Obama is going to turn the U.S. into the Soviet Union. |
| 17:45.51 | dataw0lf | Go Reds!!! |
| 17:45.52 | dataw0lf | >_< |
| 17:46.47 | fungus | carmony, our current society is mixed capitalism and socialism right now and always has been. |
| 17:46.56 | dataw0lf | and always will be. |
| 17:47.04 | beandog | until dataw0lf wins the presidency |
| 17:48.03 | dataw0lf | giving those at the bottom a hand to help them get a chance to realize the American dream is as American as any ideal the right likes to espouse. |
| 17:48.07 | carmony | That is just my point of view. I've done tons of studying on my own, and I really feel while Obama wants to make the US better, if he does everything he says he will, we're going to see a huge increase of taxes. |
| 17:48.28 | beandog | I dont necessarily see more taxes as a bad thing, if they need the money to fix stuff, do it. |
| 17:48.28 | mgeary | carmony: ...or a reallocation of current funds |
| 17:48.32 | dataw0lf | and providing a regulated free market for those who're seeking the American Dream is American too. These ideas are not incompatible. |
| 17:49.31 | fungus | The topics that should be available to *all* people regardless of income have been (or should be) socialized. |
| 17:49.37 | _psychic_ | depends on what you mean by "regulated" |
| 17:49.59 | dataw0lf | Raise my taxes, Obama. As long as it doesn't go to a disastrous war, I'm willing to pay for it (in general). |
| 17:50.33 | _psychic_ | Yeah, I'd rather that too. |
| 17:52.29 | dataw0lf | think of all the science funding the Iraq war money could've gone to. The medication for older people. Education for the lower class. |
| 17:52.44 | dataw0lf | Jeez, even a 100 foot gold statue of Bart Simpson. Something. |
| 17:52.44 | beandog | a real broadband infrastructure |
| 17:52.58 | fungus | Woot, fiber to my house! |
| 17:53.58 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: what's your opinion on the bases we keep up in various parts of the world? |
| 17:53.58 | dataw0lf | instead you have an exhausted ground force that's STILL barely armored fighting an ideological war in the middle east. |
| 17:53.58 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: well we obviously need forward deployed units in certain places. |
| 17:54.00 | dataw0lf | Germany is a good spot even if they don't like us because of all the infrastructure already in place. |
| 17:54.22 | dataw0lf | Obviously, Korea, at least PATRIOT units (which we've pulled some out to sit in Israel and Turkey, unfortunately) |
| 17:54.27 | mgeary | well, they *used* to like us in Germany |
| 17:54.42 | dataw0lf | mgeary: don't I know it. I was there between Afghanistan and Iraq |
| 17:54.48 | dataw0lf | and then AFTER Iraq. |
| 17:55.23 | dataw0lf | if you just consider the world opinion after Iraq, that in and of itself has damaged our security more than invading Iraq ever helped it. |
| 17:56.03 | dataw0lf | and let's not even bring up morale. |
| 17:56.23 | dataw0lf | Coming back after a year in Iraq to angry Germans spitting and screaming at you is fairly confusing and demoralizing. |
| 17:57.30 | _psychic_ | makes me wonder why we keep forces there |
| 17:57.36 | _psychic_ | do we have any foreign bases in the US? |
| 17:57.57 | dataw0lf | because of the existing infrastructure and Germany's excellent tactical placement for deployment to the middle east and far east. |
| 17:58.23 | dataw0lf | can't just pick up and move Landstuhl, y'know |
| 17:58.28 | _psychic_ | sure |
| 17:58.45 | dataw0lf | and I certainly agree that we probably shouldn't be in Germany if they don't want us there. |
| 17:59.17 | dataw0lf | But the NATO agreement with Turkey (which would be the place you might eye for redeployment) is pretty restrictive so we can't go there. |
| 17:59.18 | _psychic_ | I just wonder how many of these places really do more good than harm, and how many we could shut down |
| 17:59.57 | dataw0lf | post-Iraq we don't have a huge selection of options for redeployment |
| 18:00.37 | dataw0lf | (even if we did have the capabilities of a pseudo-rapid redeployment, which we don't due to the incredible amount of stress we've placed on large numbers of our troops) |
| 18:01.28 | _psychic_ | This is mostly concerned about getting resources to the middle east quickly? |
| 18:01.33 | _psychic_ | Or everywhere in the world? |
| 18:03.26 | dataw0lf | well, ostensibly most of the theatres in the eastern hemisphere but practically the middle east. |
| 18:04.12 | unum | so for those of you who aren't in #utah the link I just provided is on topic here |
| 18:04.18 | unum | http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db20081019_258155.htm |
| 18:04.59 | dataw0lf | if he makes Steve Ballmer the CTO I'm retracting my vote. |
| 18:05.56 | unum | ya me too |
| 18:06.03 | beandog | oh gosh. |
| 18:06.04 | beandog | Ballmer. |
| 18:06.08 | beandog | Heaven help us. |
| 18:06.14 | unum | I hope it's the Princeton guy |
| 18:06.19 | mgeary | Developers Developers Developers! |
| 18:06.31 | unum | I'm sad to see that lessig won't take it |
| 18:06.40 | unum | but it probably is a better fit for the princeton guy |
| 18:06.41 | beandog | 23 out of 100 have broadband access in the US?? |
| 18:06.43 | beandog | that cant be right |
| 18:07.19 | unum | our definition of broadband doesn't mean what you think it means |
| 18:07.40 | beandog | if its 750k+ then yah |
| 18:07.53 | beandog | because DSL sucks rocks |
| 18:08.07 | unum | dsl is included in "broadband" |
| 18:08.22 | beandog | They just changed it not too long ago, the FCC did |
| 18:08.25 | beandog | their definition of broadband |
| 18:08.30 | beandog | It was like 75k or something |
| 18:08.34 | beandog | bumped up much higher |
| 18:08.39 | unum | I guess I missed that |
| 18:08.45 | beandog | happened like .. ths month I think |
| 18:08.53 | beandog | really recent. |
| 18:09.00 | unum | so the 23 out of 100 is probably the old number |
| 18:09.04 | beandog | yah |
| 18:09.09 | beandog | I stil dont know where he got that one. |
| 18:09.19 | beandog | I figured it was closer to 50 |
| 18:22.17 | dataw0lf | http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/03/081103fa_fact_talbot Interesting article. |
| 18:28.46 | _psychic_ | "But many Americans who identify themselves as evangelicals, and who hold socially conservative beliefs, arenât deeply observant." |
| 18:29.15 | _psychic_ | Well, duh. If you're all talk, then why expect them to hold to what they say they'll (not) do? |
| 18:30.21 | dataw0lf | I think it has more to do with the environment one grows up in than "not being religious enough" |
| 18:30.58 | _psychic_ | It's deeper and more simple that "religious." |
| 18:31.00 | dataw0lf | "If she'd had a couple more ounces of God in her, she wouldn't have gotten pregnant!" |
| 18:31.06 | _psychic_ | no no |
| 18:31.34 | _psychic_ | If you say you're a devout Christian, but admit that you don't study nor pray nor attend meetings, then it's evidence that you can't keep a promise. |
| 18:34.21 | dataw0lf | I don't think you should have 12 or 13 year olds making a vow of chasitity. KIDS don't keep promises. |
| 18:34.35 | _psychic_ | true |
| 18:34.44 | dataw0lf | I think it has more to do with the lack of any substantial education |
| 18:34.51 | dataw0lf | rather than a moral failing on the kids part. |
| 18:34.59 | _psychic_ | But you have to have some sense of that instilled in a young person in order for them to keep it when they're 18. |
| 18:35.22 | _psychic_ | Well conservative families avoid that "education" because it doesn't always fit their moral views. |
| 18:35.36 | _psychic_ | I think it's sad, but there has to be a way to get that education through. |
| 18:35.39 | dataw0lf | and you reap what you sow. |
| 18:36.06 | _psychic_ | That's the fear, though, isn't it? |
| 18:36.31 | dataw0lf | what do you mean? if you talk frankly about sex with your kids they'll become deviants? |
| 18:36.43 | dataw0lf | that might have happened in my case, but I assure you, it's not the norm! |
| 18:36.47 | dataw0lf | I kid, I kid |
| 18:36.50 | _psychic_ | hehe |
| 18:36.51 | _psychic_ | well |
| 18:37.06 | _psychic_ | I wouldn't phrase it the way you do, but that gets close to the heart of it |
| 18:37.32 | _psychic_ | I know people that shield their children because they don't want them to hear the particulars of homosexuality or masturbation, etc. |
| 18:37.43 | dataw0lf | Ha. |
| 18:37.58 | dataw0lf | I'm pretty sure kids will figure masturbation out for themselves. |
| 18:38.51 | _psychic_ | And porn |
| 18:38.53 | _psychic_ | and drugs |
| 18:38.54 | dataw0lf | so do you want them to do that and then feel guilty because it's... hehe... 'bad'... or do you want to actually have a reasonable discussion about sexual urges instead of just demonizing it? |
| 18:38.58 | _psychic_ | But I want to have that conversation first |
| 18:39.02 | _psychic_ | so they have some context |
| 18:39.12 | _psychic_ | the former, of course |
| 18:39.27 | dataw0lf | you're a responsible father then, and I salute you. |
| 18:39.45 | _psychic_ | It's my kid, that's my right. I'd rather they hear it from me than some PC high school teacher. |
| 18:40.05 | _psychic_ | I think conservatives create taboos that end up causing problems like those described in this article. |
| 18:40.12 | dataw0lf | regardless of whether our morality matches up, I respect anyone who actually gives context for their values to their kids. |
| 18:40.29 | _psychic_ | That's all you can do |
| 18:40.34 | dataw0lf | and I completely agree. Demonizing something just makes it more mysterious, and that much more attractive to a pubescent. |
| 18:40.42 | _psychic_ | because if you force secrecy, etc. it only causes problems in the long run |
| 18:40.44 | _psychic_ | exactly |
| 18:41.09 | _psychic_ | I don't exactly plan on handing out the beer and girly mags either though. :) |
| 18:41.25 | dataw0lf | well of course not |
| 18:41.33 | dataw0lf | well |
| 18:41.56 | dataw0lf | my dad gave me a playboy when I turned 14. I already had a stash by that time though |
| 18:42.01 | beandog | _psychic_, so you have some to hand out? |
| 18:42.22 | _psychic_ | I might have a Better Homes and Gardens for you beandog. |
| 18:42.44 | unum | I'm fine if parents want to pull their kids out of the sex ed classes, but it bothers me they fight efforts to improve it for others |
| 18:45.28 | dataw0lf | anyone who's for abstinence-only education needs to get their head screwed on. |
| 18:45.48 | dataw0lf | High schools should have a barrel full of condoms on hand in a public place. |
| 18:46.22 | _psychic_ | Some people really balk at that, but I wouldn't care. |
| 18:46.49 | carmony | abstinence* |
| 18:46.49 | beandog | I think abstinence should be taught as an obvious option, but not the only one |
| 18:46.54 | beandog | that'd be a pretty short class. |
| 18:47.12 | _psychic_ | No matter what you do, kids are wading around in the mire all day anyway. |
| 18:47.26 | dataw0lf | if abstinence had ever been shown to work, I'd be all for abstinence-only |
| 18:47.41 | dataw0lf | and abstinence is a commendable option, surely. |
| 18:47.59 | carmony | Abstinence is most effective when taught by good parents. |
| 18:48.06 | dataw0lf | but not teaching kids how to use a condom, and not providing them, is a pretty large problem, considering the guilt already associated with getting condoms. |
| 18:51.05 | _psychic_ | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4643674 |
| 18:52.10 | beandog | why doesnt he die already. |
| 19:04.26 | dataw0lf | http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14982.html |
| 19:05.17 | itimber | anyone good w/ JPG file structures?? |
| 19:05.36 | macnewbold | I know some libs that are... |
| 19:05.42 | jsmith | itimber: Sounds like a very loaded question... why? |
| 19:05.44 | macnewbold | JPEG itself or EXIF? |
| 19:07.10 | itimber | well, I've just had a corrupt JPG before that was important.... |
| 19:07.18 | itimber | and this morning I was thinking about it |
| 19:07.37 | itimber | and was thinking it was probably missing the first bit or last bit of code |
| 19:07.47 | itimber | so, I'm trying to do some research |
| 19:08.38 | itimber | and what I'm seeing online about 0xFFD9 type markers, is very different from what I'm seeing in the JPG's code itself |
| 19:09.08 | itimber | which looks like a bunch of crap like this: ÷°qÃCÃc.¶âËËô¬â°sUº¨®IFNxËâ;Ã]G¶aëóÃ:éâH¯'8â°(°ÿJà |
| 19:09.30 | DexterTheDragon | pretty |
| 19:09.41 | itimber | I assume this is encrypted or compiled or something |
| 19:10.22 | jsmith | Well, you need to look at it in a hex editor |
| 19:10.33 | dataw0lf | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RwoFcLgxA0 |
| 19:12.14 | itimber | downloading HexEdit v2 |
| 19:14.23 | itimber | okay.... that's got a pentagram as an icon, and mentions how it can erase my HD..... |
| 19:14.32 | itimber | anyone use HexEdit? |
| 19:14.42 | itimber | cause if not, I think I'll look for another |
| 19:14.43 | itimber | :) |
| 19:14.45 | itimber | hehe |
| 19:15.39 | itimber | hey, is there one built into OS X? |
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| 19:17.01 | dataw0lf | itimber: there's 0xED |
| 19:17.19 | itimber | just saw that.... and it's built in cocoa |
| 19:17.25 | itimber | any recommendations? |
| 19:21.06 | carmony | use_svn_for_anything_important++ |
| 19:21.07 | carmony | ;) |
| 19:21.18 | itimber | thx :) |
| 19:23.45 | itimber | thanks macnewbold, jsmith and dataw0lf.... that's working perfectly |
| 19:23.56 | jsmith | itimber: w00t! |
| 19:23.56 | itimber | jsmith: why would that be a loaded question? |
| 19:24.20 | jsmith | itimber: Just usually when someone goes around asking for the structure of jpeg files, they're scanning a hard drive image looking for incriminating evidence |
| 19:24.29 | itimber | ah |
| 19:24.35 | itimber | no, nothing like that |
| 19:25.29 | itimber | how would the content of the pic show up in the file structure? it's just a bunch of RGB values |
| 19:25.42 | itimber | can't tell you if your hubbie is with another woman or anything |
| 19:25.44 | itimber | :) |
| 19:26.11 | itimber | could tell you what shade of red he turned when he found out |
| 19:26.13 | itimber | LOL |
| 19:26.36 | mindjuju | you can take a hash of a known bad image and compare it to hashes of images taken from a suspected computer |
| 19:26.55 | itimber | aaaahhhhh |
| 19:26.58 | itimber | I see |
| 19:27.38 | jsmith | itimber: http://www.ssddfj.org/papers/SSDDFJ_V1_1_Cohen.pdf |
| 19:29.32 | itimber | TY jsmith |
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| 19:37.49 | itimber | so.... I'm curious about something.... |
| 19:38.12 | itimber | I'm curious about the steps from PHP to Binary |
| 19:38.19 | itimber | since the machine only reads binary |
| 19:38.49 | itimber | so, PHP is converted to ASCII which is in turn converted to 256bit Binary? |
| 19:39.28 | beandog | I think there's a Super NES in there somewhere. |
| 19:40.10 | DexterTheDragon | PHP -> opcode |
| 19:40.39 | itimber | ~SuperNES++ |
| 19:41.30 | itimber | oh right... PHP is a set of instructions.... |
| 19:41.37 | itimber | so what's reading those instructions? |
| 19:41.57 | DexterTheDragon | the zend engine |
| 19:42.40 | itimber | and that's built in C++? which does the whole ASCII -> Binary thing? |
| 19:43.24 | DexterTheDragon | C or C++ |
| 19:46.59 | mindjuju | ugh, i don't want to have to support IE 8 |
| 19:47.52 | beandog | IE8 is the future, baby. |
| 19:47.58 | beandog | Just wait for 9 to come out, too |
| 19:48.08 | mindjuju | yeah, future headache, here today |
| 19:48.15 | mindjuju | thx ballmer! |
| 19:51.28 | itimber | so.... to tie it back to my JPG.... what code is this: iâ°â¥âû2k;UCRNWü¬â¥Ã¤_3hÃcÅÃ\MÏUIlı«JÃuo#,fÃ=j |
| 19:51.51 | DexterTheDragon | looks like pink |
| 19:52.04 | itimber | LMAO |
| 19:56.57 | carmony | japanesse? |
| 20:19.50 | itimber | sucks carmony |
| 20:20.25 | carmony | naw, its okay, its a frivolous(sp?) lawsuit and will probably be thrown out. |
| 20:20.33 | carmony | http://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2008/10/michael-robertson-sues-me-to-impede-my.html |
| 20:29.49 | _psychic_ | carmony: you worked on Linspire? |
| 20:32.07 | carmony | naw, I was younger at the time, didn't know much about programming :) |
| 20:32.17 | carmony | But I helped test it and stuff |
| 20:33.30 | Utah_Dave | that's cool, carmony. I followed Linspire from back when it was Lindows |
| 20:34.10 | _psychic_ | Yeah it was cool - I dunno if I would ever buy it, but it wasn't a bad idea |
| 20:34.34 | carmony | yeah, it was getting really good, then My dad had to resign cause the Chairman kept wanting to do shaddy stuff |
| 20:34.45 | carmony | so he now is a Ubuntu supporter :) |
| 20:34.49 | _psychic_ | \o/ |
| 20:35.06 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 20:56.26 | beandog | carmony, freak, thats poopy |
| 20:59.33 | carmony | meh, it could be worse |
| 20:59.50 | carmony | Talked to my dad and he isn't concerned at all |
| 21:16.08 | tierra | yeah, reading that, I don't think he should be concerned |
| 21:16.16 | tierra | it does sounds like he doesn't have a case |
| 21:17.57 | tierra | but I'm not the 'average' user |
| 21:18.37 | dataw0lf | we like to call tierra "special" |
| 21:18.41 | tierra | er, what I mean is that there was so much stuff cut out of linux to make Lindows, and that was all stuff I used heavily |
| 21:19.09 | _psychic_ | My family got sued all the time when my Dad was on City Council. |
| 21:20.11 | unum | _psychic_: which city? |
| 21:21.06 | tierra | k, so who here all has OSX? My alpha build of Phoenix Project Manager (30 day trial version) is just about ready... 10.4+ Universal Binary (I'm going to see about 10.3 myself, but I think I still have some work to do before it works right) |
| 21:21.33 | tierra | hugs for everyone that tries it out ;) |
| 21:22.05 | dataw0lf | well in that case, no I don't have OS X. |
| 21:22.13 | tierra | hehe |
| 21:22.20 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 21:24.27 | itimber | i have OS X |
| 21:24.40 | itimber | 10.5 |
| 21:29.59 | carmony | lol, tierra, Linspire wasn't made for the power user :) |
| 21:30.37 | tierra | I've very aware of that after I played with it |
| 21:34.05 | carmony | lol, yup |
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| 21:44.46 | _psychic_ | unum: Mesquite, NV |
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| 22:14.46 | mindjuju | for those of you looking for some crunch taco action from Taco Hell, - got get it fo free today before 6p - http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fan_forum/tacobell/ |
| 22:16.21 | beandog | what happens after 6pm? |
| 22:16.26 | beandog | what does taco bell know that the world doesn't? |
| 22:17.13 | mindjuju | taco faire doesn't give out free tacos past 6p |
| 22:17.22 | mindjuju | hey i can get a whole meal of tacos, free! |
| 22:17.33 | mindjuju | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=taco+bell+84020&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=63.384331,106.875&ie=UTF8&ll=40.543548,-111.855755&spn=0.121186,0.20874&z=13 |
| 22:17.46 | beandog | ~tinyurl mindjuju |
| 22:17.47 | jbot | ACTION runs '/exec tinyurl.sh http://maps.google.com//maps/ms?ie=UTF8&addr=mindjuju' and laughs maniacally! |
| 22:21.14 | mindjuju | course though, if i'm going to bother to get out of my comfy chair, out of my cushy office, into my awesome jeep and drive around for free food, i might as well go to Beto's and get a bacon, egg and potato burrito |
| 22:21.46 | DexterTheDragon | amen |
| 22:24.14 | jsmith | mindjuju: Curse you! |
| 22:25.21 | jsmith | mindjuju: Yeah... and now that you guys finally have Five Guys, you're *starting* to catch up |
| 22:25.53 | mindjuju | course though, virginia had crispy creme YEARS before it came to Utah |
| 22:26.02 | beandog | I want a jeep |
| 22:26.04 | _psychic_ | I think you mean tastycake |
| 22:26.39 | mindjuju | well, and 1 push |
| 22:29.58 | jsmith | Hmmmmmn.... snow.... |
| 22:32.58 | beandog | http://lifehacker.com/5069737/crossover-mac-and-linux-products-free-today-only |
| 22:33.00 | beandog | *free* |
| 22:33.18 | orsonj | I got my copy |
| 22:34.07 | _psychic_ | orsonj: did you get a serial/ |
| 22:34.24 | orsonj | I put one email address in the box |
| 22:36.02 | beandog | they have the full download right there |
| 22:36.04 | beandog | no key necessary |
| 22:36.16 | _psychic_ | oh I haven't fired it up et |
| 22:36.18 | _psychic_ | *yet |
| 22:37.55 | fungus | I already downloaded every edition of the crossover products as soon as I saw it. |
| 22:38.20 | fungus | Can't wait to try it out later today. |
| 22:39.19 | _psychic_ | I can't wait to try out cod4 later today either. |
| 22:40.34 | _psychic_ | scardy cat |
| 22:40.47 | mindjuju | :) |
| 22:45.03 | itimber | I'm out.... later guys |
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| 23:04.21 | dataw0lf | ls |
| 23:07.10 | jsmith | No files or directories found |
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