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| 14:43.42 | carmony | good morning |
| 14:49.54 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 14:49.55 | jbot | chops eco in half with a free Solaris 7 CD |
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| 15:06.19 | macnewbold | ~zippy |
| 15:06.36 | carmony | sdsldkjfsldkjfasdlgh |
| 15:06.43 | carmony | My Zend Studio froze :( |
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| 16:02.44 | mindjuju | synic - ravetrax is playing some awesome stuff |
| 16:03.13 | synic | I'll be the judge of that |
| 16:03.57 | mindjuju | :) |
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| 16:06.49 | carmony | whats ravetrax? |
| 16:06.57 | mindjuju | www.ravetrax.com |
| 16:07.04 | mindjuju | freshly-squeezed techno |
| 16:12.42 | mindjuju | carmony - did you tune into ravetrax? |
| 16:12.47 | mindjuju | ~seen itimber |
| 16:12.48 | jbot | itimber <n=itimber@c-98-202-102-189.hsd1.ut.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 2d 17h 2m 26s ago, saying: 'I'm out.... later guys'. |
| 16:12.57 | mindjuju | he's missing some awesome stuff |
| 16:17.56 | carmony | not yet |
| 16:18.13 | synic | naki is always good |
| 16:22.31 | mindjuju | nice! |
| 16:24.19 | mindjuju | anybody here done anything with Amazon Web Services? |
| 16:25.25 | carmony | nope, but I was looking into it |
| 16:34.55 | carmony | jsmith have you used EC2? |
| 16:35.14 | jsmith | carmony: A bit... why? |
| 16:35.49 | carmony | A client of mine wants to use it to expand & scale |
| 16:36.03 | carmony | did you find the performance on EC2 to be good? |
| 16:38.55 | jsmith | Sure |
| 16:39.15 | jsmith | I didn't do anything too intensive... mostly just an experiment |
| 16:51.01 | carmony | what tools did you use to experiment with ? |
| 16:59.17 | josephscott | sure make sure the app can scale, there's no magic in EC2 |
| 17:00.50 | jsmith | josephscott: Exactly... |
| 17:00.58 | josephscott | doubled up on the sure there :-) |
| 17:01.08 | jsmith | carmony: Mostly a bunch of shell scripts :-) |
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| 17:30.07 | fungus | hear hear! |
| 17:30.17 | fungus | death to qmail |
| 17:30.20 | tierra | why? It's the easiest MTA I've ever setup... |
| 17:30.45 | tierra | I also run a postfix server, but I like qmail better |
| 17:30.58 | SunSparc | Yeah, I would like to hear why also. |
| 17:31.00 | fungus | really, it's strange, and painful |
| 17:31.03 | tierra | and I've tried setting up Exim before |
| 17:31.10 | tierra | as well |
| 17:31.26 | fungus | Exim is ok, but I'm a big fan of postfix |
| 17:32.07 | fungus | I guess my real problem with qmail is the different mindset it requires. |
| 17:32.21 | tierra | no-one can argue the non-free license anymore... heh |
| 17:33.20 | fungus | qmail did introduce the Maildir storage method, IIRC. I really appreciate that. |
| 17:33.28 | SunSparc | The author of qmail is an interesting guy |
| 17:33.36 | tierra | I like Maildir too |
| 17:34.52 | fungus | heh, I didn't know djb wrote qmail. I guess i'm not that surprised now I think of it. |
| 17:38.34 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:38.44 | SunSparc | Yeah, I love his TinyDNS. Been using it for years. |
| 17:38.55 | SunSparc | He thinks differently. |
| 17:39.16 | SunSparc | And does not really care what others think of him. Pretty cocksure. |
| 17:39.18 | josephscott | the completely jacked up patch policy pretty much shot down qmail |
| 17:40.37 | tierra | not anymore |
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| 17:41.49 | josephscott | yeah, but waiting for years to change it caused most to pass on it long ago |
| 17:42.39 | tierra | DJB was being an ass about everything, but it was all his code... but he did end up just getting sick of the constant wining from everyone and just released it to the public domain |
| 17:42.41 | tierra | not really, it still has a chance... it's not like nice, replacement MTAs are popping up like weeds |
| 17:43.26 | tierra | it's not like Sendmail hasn't been around for 30 years |
| 17:43.53 | tierra | well, more like 25, but you get the idea |
| 17:44.01 | josephscott | took him more than half a decade to get around to fixing the license issue, not exactly rapid response :-) |
| 17:44.27 | josephscott | tierra: next year sendmail will be 30 years old |
| 17:44.38 | josephscott | well, sort of |
| 17:44.59 | tierra | first shipped in 1983 according to wikipedia |
| 17:45.01 | josephscott | ok, so delivermail will be 30 next year, but it was written by the same person |
| 17:46.28 | tierra | anyway, it's wasn't a "fix", I just don't think DJB ever intended for it to become an organized open source project, but eventually just got sick of all the wining |
| 17:46.42 | tierra | and probably just stopped caring |
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| 17:47.32 | tierra | he stopped working on it a _long_ time ago, and I don't think he intends to ever work on it again |
| 17:48.07 | tierra | but at least it's public domain now, it's likely to turn into an organized open source project I'm sure |
| 17:48.11 | josephscott | when you write a sendmail replacement and call everyone using sendmail morons and then get upset when people want to distribute your replacement, smacks of a major deficit |
| 17:48.28 | josephscott | it's been in PD for nearly a year |
| 17:50.18 | tierra | the people probably most likely to organize that project are the same people that organized net-qmail, most of them being Debian users I think... it's going to take time for that re-organization to turn around |
| 17:50.31 | josephscott | my point about the delay was that it gave plenty of time for postfix to become the defacto open source sendmail replacement for many folks, almost a decade ago |
| 17:51.36 | tierra | well, anyway, that doesn't change the fact that there's still qmail fans/users out there, and that it's a good alternative to postfix |
| 17:52.22 | tierra | it's not too late for it |
| 17:52.49 | tierra | not everyone loves postfix |
| 17:54.06 | fungus | I've been able to do everything I ever wanted to do, very easily in postfix. |
| 17:54.33 | fungus | SunSparc: me too, but I have up hope on that long ago. |
| 17:54.45 | josephscott | yeah, I'm not sure what advantage qmail would have over a current postfix install |
| 17:54.46 | fungus | s/have/gave/ |
| 17:55.01 | SunSparc | fungus: Yeah, I know what you mean. |
| 17:55.53 | mgeary | hey, what sort of regular maintenance do y'all perform on mysql databases? |
| 17:56.03 | fungus | backups |
| 17:56.11 | fungus | monitoring |
| 17:56.19 | mgeary | yeah. anything else? Do you run myisamcheck regularly? |
| 17:56.26 | fungus | nope |
| 17:56.50 | fungus | BTW, OPTIMIZE TABLE can be done on a live table, no need for myisamcheck |
| 17:58.03 | fungus | I do run an optimize on some tables periodically, not regularly though. |
| 17:58.32 | mgeary | i've got a table with an apparently corrupted index. running myisamchk -r now, but wondering if i should perhaps set up a cron process to run that perodically |
| 17:59.01 | eggyknap | On the subject of MySQL, and sneaking a plug for UDBUG in here, anyone wanna talk to SLLUG about why they like MySQL for 10-15 minutes on Wed evening? |
| 17:59.03 | fungus | No, IIRC myisamchk should not be run on a table in use |
| 18:00.53 | tierra | there's been a ton of speculation that Gmail uses qmail btw |
| 18:01.44 | tierra | Yahoo was/is using it too |
| 18:01.58 | tierra | it's still a much faster MTA than postfix |
| 18:02.49 | fungus | I don't care about speed at the MTA, my bottlenecks are at the SpamAssassin, or disk level. |
| 18:04.56 | mgeary | if there are no current processes, am i okay to kill -9 a mysqld process that won't die? |
| 18:05.27 | tierra | I'm just saying that you guys seem to think it's a dead MTA, but it's very much alive and kicking even if there isn't currently a solid, dedicated team of developers working on it |
| 18:06.37 | fungus | I think qmail is still alive. I just personally don't like it, and don't really care about it much. |
| 18:07.11 | fungus | mgeary: if you are trying to shut down the server totally, and it won't die normally, then yes, it is ok. |
| 18:12.26 | jsmith | eggyknap: If I were in Utah still, I'd be happy to talk about why I prefer PostgreSQL over MySQL :-p |
| 18:13.09 | eggyknap | jsmith: we've already got one of those, and I'll be standing by as backup. :) |
| 18:17.40 | carmony | last time I usef pgsql, it was a bad situation, but not due to pgsql but how the whole system was engineered :p |
| 18:19.41 | eggyknap | Even pgsql won't save you from crappy design. It will allow you more creative forms of crappiness than some other systems, for that matter. |
| 18:20.38 | carmony | lol, well our problem was that half of the whole design used pgsql, and the other half used mysql :p |
| 18:20.43 | carmony | it was... a... nightmare |
| 18:22.25 | eggyknap | ouch. |
| 18:27.11 | carmony | so who plans & organizes the lunches and meet-ups? |
| 18:27.59 | mindjuju | me, you got some ideas? |
| 18:30.20 | carmony | i dunno, I was looking over a blog post that outlined the php groups discussion panel at unzendcon. |
| 18:30.28 | carmony | it had some good ideas |
| 18:30.57 | mindjuju | want to send me a link or an email? |
| 18:31.59 | carmony | http://jaime.hemmett.org/blog/?p=182 that was the post |
| 18:34.29 | mindjuju | curiously, http://www.hemmett.org/ works for me, but your link doesn't |
| 18:34.54 | mgeary | it works for me |
| 18:35.21 | mindjuju | curious, all i get is opendns |
| 18:35.30 | mindjuju | Hmm, jaime.hemmett.org isn't loading right now. |
| 18:35.36 | mindjuju | i'll try different location |
| 18:35.59 | jsmith | WORKSFORME |
| 18:37.29 | carmony | http://www.datingdna.com/blog_content.html <-- I copied the Post's HTML and pasted it here. |
| 18:39.04 | mindjuju | :) |
| 18:39.16 | mindjuju | yeah! we do tons of these! |
| 18:39.29 | mgeary | hey, anyone have a favorite javascript mailto link email scrambler? |
| 18:39.53 | mgeary | i know there are several out there. looking for a recommended one |
| 18:39.54 | mindjuju | though, i don't agree with the gneral statement that PHPers are hermits that don't communicate well with others |
| 18:40.05 | mindjuju | nor the comments about PHP code shops |
| 18:40.10 | carmony | mindjuju, I agree |
| 18:40.14 | mindjuju | we have several shops here |
| 18:40.43 | carmony | Does uphpu do anything with any open source projects? |
| 18:40.47 | mindjuju | macnewbold - Code Greene, mgeary - The Treeline Group, _pyschic_ - MediaRain |
| 18:41.15 | mindjuju | funny you should ask, Code Greene sponsored a OSS project called phylte , a PHP Framework |
| 18:41.30 | mindjuju | i'm on the board of trustees for Utah Open Source and several members here psoke |
| 18:41.45 | mindjuju | yes, that's true jsmith |
| 18:42.07 | jsmith | Take myself, for instance... I'd like to believe I'm a pretty darn good PHP programmer.... but I'm not a 'PHP developer' |
| 18:42.23 | mindjuju | especially one of your versatility and caliber |
| 18:42.27 | mindjuju | yup |
| 18:42.43 | mindjuju | or fungus or thebigdog |
| 18:43.08 | jsmith | Oh, and what am I doing today, you ask? Teaching a class :-p |
| 18:43.22 | mindjuju | as for speakers, that one is awesome, it suggests having somebody out from Adobe or Zend, etc |
| 18:43.35 | mindjuju | we had somebody out from Adobe speaking on Zend just a couple days ago! |
| 18:43.36 | carmony | I couldn't find phytle on google :p |
| 18:43.45 | carmony | I wish I could have gone :) |
| 18:43.48 | dataw0lf | jsmith: oh, I was thinking of a one word description for you |
| 18:44.00 | mindjuju | demi-g0d ? |
| 18:44.05 | jsmith | dataw0lf: What, idiot was already taken? |
| 18:44.10 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 18:44.11 | jsmith | mindjuju: I ain't all that and a bag of chips |
| 18:44.35 | jsmith | dataw0lf: See, that's the problem... I defy categorization |
| 18:44.59 | jsmith | dataw0lf: as do *many* other people in this channel, yourself included |
| 18:45.31 | dataw0lf | true enough. |
| 18:45.31 | carmony | I'm just looking to do some PHP open source work, figuring I could benefit from the experience :) |
| 18:46.00 | mindjuju | carmony, there are several projects, PHP projects, that you could volunteer for |
| 18:46.11 | mindjuju | macnewbold was on flypaper, or spray, or some bug tracker by that name |
| 18:46.18 | fungus | carmony: phlyte just kind of died, well... never even got started |
| 18:46.23 | mindjuju | _psychic_ does Cake volunteer |
| 18:47.01 | fungus | flyspray is the bug tracker that macnewbold uses and contributes to |
| 18:47.08 | mindjuju | :) |
| 18:47.11 | mindjuju | thx fungus |
| 18:47.34 | carmony | I had an idea for an open source project that I've searched around and never found anything like it |
| 18:47.39 | mindjuju | tierra does stuff with mediawiki and wxwidgets |
| 18:48.23 | mindjuju | jsmith co-author book on Asterisk |
| 18:48.41 | mindjuju | many members here are heavily involved in OSS |
| 18:48.57 | mindjuju | herlo is founder of UTOS |
| 18:49.08 | mindjuju | josephscott works on wordpress |
| 18:49.18 | carmony | My idea was something like a Database Schema Revision Manager |
| 18:50.06 | fungus | That's a great idea carmony |
| 18:50.12 | carmony | I haven't seen ANYTHIGN like it |
| 18:50.16 | carmony | and I really could use one ;) |
| 18:50.43 | mgeary | i've been working on something like that |
| 18:51.36 | fungus | Since db schemas are often tied to application code, integrating that into the application VCS would be really nice. |
| 18:51.45 | carmony | yeah, see I would LOVE to have something like a Trac for my database schemas. Take snapshots saying "this is revision 3.1" and I could do something like "I need to generate the scripts to go from DB 1.4 to 2.3" |
| 18:52.36 | josephscott | isn't their something in rails that does that? |
| 18:52.55 | carmony | rails has something like that, but I think its really integrated into rails |
| 18:53.05 | carmony | I want to make something very 3rd party |
| 18:53.18 | dataw0lf | it's called schema migrations |
| 18:53.23 | dataw0lf | it's an essential part of most ORMs |
| 18:54.49 | dataw0lf | I don't know about PHP, but, yes, Ruby and Python offer a variety of ways to do this (in a variety of ORMs) |
| 18:55.00 | dataw0lf | this is one of things that Rails (2.0+) has actually gotten right. |
| 18:55.02 | carmony | yeah, I don't know of anything in PHP |
| 18:55.48 | dataw0lf | http://cakebaker.42dh.com/2006/05/13/cake-migrations/ |
| 18:55.58 | dataw0lf | http://codeigniter.com/wiki/Migrations/ |
| 18:56.36 | dataw0lf | http://www.doctrine-project.org/Doctrine_Migration/1_0 |
| 18:56.36 | dataw0lf | there are some PHP projects that use them. |
| 18:57.26 | dataw0lf | Doctrine looks the most Rails 2.0 "sexy migration"-ish |
| 18:57.43 | dataw0lf | without the cool utility of code blocks and symbols. |
| 18:58.02 | dataw0lf | ah lunch time |
| 19:00.05 | _psychic_ | They need hooked on phonics for Ruby. |
| 19:00.10 | _psychic_ | Stuff is hard to read, imho. |
| 19:03.03 | carmony | has anyone used doctrine before? |
| 19:17.27 | _psychic_ | I've looked at it before |
| 19:18.18 | _psychic_ | I disagree with some fundamental decisions they made |
| 19:18.30 | carmony | such as? |
| 19:18.37 | _psychic_ | YAML for one |
| 19:18.56 | _psychic_ | just having a YAML parser in your ORM layer seems unnecessary |
| 19:19.04 | _psychic_ | and having to upkeep the files themselves seems odd |
| 19:19.12 | _psychic_ | since you can get schema information from the DB engine and cache it |
| 19:19.16 | _psychic_ | (like cake does) |
| 19:20.19 | _psychic_ | Symfony uses Doctrine |
| 19:26.30 | cycokilr | http://static.flickr.com/1/861969_b80c870934.jpg |
| 19:26.56 | _psychic_ | the 5 is on backwards |
| 19:26.57 | mindjuju | nice |
| 19:27.06 | cycokilr | yeah, kinda silly.. |
| 19:27.17 | _psychic_ | 3.141*5* |
| 19:27.45 | cycokilr | you're so picky man.. |
| 19:28.30 | _psychic_ | psychicOS: Parse error on line 0. T_STRING "S". Expected numeric input. |
| 19:30.06 | cycokilr | why would you put an S in, looks more like a 2.. |
| 19:30.21 | cycokilr | which, while incorrect, would compute fine.. |
| 19:31.53 | _psychic_ | I think they laid down the 5 backwards |
| 19:32.05 | _psychic_ | it's flipped horizontally |
| 19:32.07 | mindjuju | so carmony -- would like to encourage you in your idea to start a team to develop a PHP based Database Schema Revision Manager. i think there are several people in this forum who could prove very beneficial. let me know what assistance i can help you with |
| 19:33.44 | carmony | well, care if I email the uphpu mailing list and ask if there is anyone else interested in working on it? |
| 19:33.52 | _psychic_ | what DB(s)? |
| 19:33.57 | mindjuju | nope, feel free to |
| 19:34.21 | carmony | well, I'd love to have it be DB independant |
| 19:34.33 | carmony | meaning it'll work with Postgre, MySQL, etc. |
| 19:34.49 | _psychic_ | but it's going to need to connect to both, right? |
| 19:35.12 | mindjuju | eggyknap here in #uphpu is pres of udbug (utah database user group) |
| 19:35.38 | mindjuju | if he has time, he'd prolly be a good resource for pgsql, along with thebigdog and others here |
| 19:35.40 | carmony | _psychic_, yes, I think so |
| 19:39.15 | eggyknap | carmony: I've thought of some things along those lines, but principally what it would take to make the DB more friendly to those of us doing release engineering, that have to make sure the schemas are right. Sounds like what you have in mind. |
| 19:39.42 | eggyknap | But my stuff has been postgresql-specific, and I don't use ORMs too often, so I hadn't put much thought into the idea of having the ORM take care of it. |
| 19:40.27 | carmony | eggyknap, good point. The ability to verify a schema is correct would be awesome. |
| 19:41.19 | carmony | I think looking into a good, sound ORM might be a good ideas so we can 1) use it on multiple database system, 2) not re-invent & code the wheel. If there are tools to do it, we should see if we can use them :) |
| 19:42.33 | eggyknap | I should point out that my activities along those lines have been in thought only -- no code :) If I ever get around to coding again, there are a few other projects I've gotta finish off first. |
| 19:42.55 | carmony | lol, well helpful insight is great :) |
| 19:47.44 | macnewbold | ~summon tristanbob |
| 19:47.44 | jbot | apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing tristanbob's coordinates |
| 20:07.11 | thebigdog | carmony, sounds like a decent idea...how do you plan to manage the schema revisions? |
| 20:10.03 | carmony | thebigdog, I'm still brain storming exactly how to manage that :) |
| 20:10.41 | thebigdog | i might have some ideas |
| 20:10.53 | carmony | which I would *love* to hear |
| 20:15.35 | _psychic_ | Integrate the script with some USB peripheral that makes a donut everytime you take a schema snapshot. |
| 20:21.35 | thebigdog | oh man...someone had my idea |
| 20:21.42 | thebigdog | liquibase |
| 20:23.57 | carmony | using xml? |
| 20:24.05 | thebigdog | carmony yeah |
| 20:24.37 | thebigdog | then you can have migrations to other dbs |
| 20:25.45 | thebigdog | having it in xml allows you to really have a great base for transformations |
| 20:25.46 | DexterTheDragon | eeewwwww xml |
| 20:26.51 | josephscott | *cough* JSON *cough* |
| 20:26.57 | dataw0lf | wasn't someone just complaining about YAML? |
| 20:27.04 | dataw0lf | Now we have recommendations to use XML? |
| 20:27.12 | dataw0lf | is... is time running backwards? |
| 20:28.05 | thebigdog | xml rocks |
| 20:28.13 | _psychic_ | um why not just use PHP? |
| 20:28.57 | dataw0lf | I think you guys are basically reinventing the wheel here, so I have no constructive comments |
| 20:30.01 | thebigdog | dataw0lf, depends on the features that are need and created |
| 20:30.15 | thebigdog | some aspects i'm sure are |
| 20:30.46 | thebigdog | perhaps some are not...but i'm not sure what carmony's ideas on it are |
| 20:31.25 | dataw0lf | you're implementing it in PHP, anyways. |
| 20:31.27 | dataw0lf | <- no interest |
| 20:33.14 | carmony | I want a web interface that I can tag, branch, add notes to revision, export up and down scripts, all super easy with a nice interface. If there are technologies to help store database schemas, great, I just want to create a LAMP based interface for it. |
| 20:39.14 | SunSparc | carmony: that sounds like a tall order |
| 20:39.53 | SunSparc | We have used Trac in the past but have recently started using unfuddle. |
| 20:40.10 | SunSparc | Does not do all you are mentioning, but still nice. |
| 20:41.13 | carmony | yeah, well my boiled down version would be a tool to create, store, and compare differences between database revisions |
| 20:43.08 | SunSparc | Ah, you are talking more about databases than svn repos. I did not see that. |
| 20:43.31 | carmony | yeah |
| 20:43.37 | carmony | those extra things would be down the road :) |
| 20:43.51 | carmony | oh yea, this is for databases |
| 20:43.53 | SunSparc | Database revisioning, that would be nice. |
| 20:44.43 | SunSparc | I currently just through my schemas into the svn repo with the code and add updates as I go. |
| 20:51.28 | mindjuju | i love these commercials, http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ |
| 20:51.32 | mindjuju | there are 2 new ones |
| 20:53.16 | SunSparc | lol, "let's just put it all in advertising" |
| 20:53.33 | mindjuju | :) |
| 20:54.03 | mindjuju | there was a PC commercial where they have this dude and he looks just like the one from apple |
| 20:54.19 | mindjuju | they kindof make a joke of the similarities in appearance |
| 20:57.06 | SunSparc | I like the "Off the air one". |
| 20:58.22 | mindjuju | better than bean counter? |
| 20:58.25 | mindjuju | no way! |
| 21:00.10 | SunSparc | lol, not better, just saying that I also like that other one. |
| 21:00.37 | mindjuju | ah |
| 21:01.36 | SunSparc | Especially when he says, "fear of switching is the foundation of customer loyalty for pc's" |
| 21:01.38 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:02.29 | carmony | hrm... apple's videos won't pull up for me |
| 21:02.54 | mindjuju | that's odd, cause your link from earlier didn't pull up for me |
| 21:03.01 | mindjuju | maybe our lines are crossed |
| 21:03.03 | carmony | lol :p |
| 21:05.13 | carmony | bah, I hate Mac commercials lately, they are so.... biased ;) |
| 21:05.37 | SunSparc | heh :) |
| 21:05.45 | carmony | I like Vista better than OS X ;) |
| 21:05.53 | mindjuju | biased? |
| 21:06.12 | carmony | biased isn't the right word |
| 21:06.17 | carmony | miss leading :p |
| 21:06.39 | mindjuju | ah |
| 21:06.43 | SunSparc | Of course it is biased |
| 21:07.00 | carmony | it is biased, should be, miss leading was the term that I was really looking for |
| 21:07.37 | mindjuju | i actually have 0 OSX time |
| 21:07.44 | carmony | lol |
| 21:07.45 | mindjuju | i'm just saying they are funny / creative |
| 21:07.51 | carmony | oh, they are very funny ;) |
| 21:07.59 | mindjuju | on the other hand, i do have about 4hrs of Vista time |
| 21:08.10 | carmony | my younger brother works at Best Buy, and he *hates* selling Macs |
| 21:08.12 | mindjuju | and each of those hours was more grueling than the last |
| 21:08.16 | carmony | cause they get returned a lot |
| 21:08.17 | unum | I of course prefers novel's know off ads |
| 21:08.34 | carmony | unum: I like novell's ads :p |
| 21:08.35 | mindjuju | i run XP and Ubuntu |
| 21:08.43 | mindjuju | i don't think i've seen novell ads |
| 21:08.44 | unum | carmony: do the eeepc's get returned a lot |
| 21:08.55 | unum | mindjuju: I've only seen them online |
| 21:09.03 | unum | though macgamer was a good knock off as well |
| 21:09.03 | mindjuju | got a link? |
| 21:09.05 | carmony | I haven't seen them in the store |
| 21:09.32 | unum | a friend told me her boss picked one up the other day |
| 21:09.41 | carmony | I'll have to check |
| 21:09.48 | unum | mindjuju: to which one? |
| 21:10.18 | mindjuju | though you know, carmony, apple didn't make up or misrepresent vista compatibility problems, those exist adn are well documented in MS executive level emails |
| 21:10.34 | unum | http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mac+gamer&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f# |
| 21:10.39 | unum | that's mac gamer |
| 21:11.05 | mindjuju | plus, owning peripherals and software that wasn't compatible / didn't have drivers in Vista just didn't make for a good experience, especially when they suggested everybody just upgrade |
| 21:11.21 | mindjuju | and the foob of selling Vista Ready equip that wasn't so Vista Ready |
| 21:11.26 | mindjuju | they just have themselves to blame |
| 21:11.58 | carmony | the compatibility problems were big the first 3 months. But anything new works fine. The logic I don't see is if my old X program doesn't run on Vista, I'm going to switch to OS X, which NONE of my old programs work? |
| 21:11.58 | mindjuju | don't get me wrong, i'm not an MS hater, heck, i'm writing to you now on my 4 install of XP on this same box |
| 21:12.25 | mindjuju | well, i didn't jump to osx, i jumped back to xp |
| 21:12.32 | carmony | MS screwed up the Vista release |
| 21:12.36 | carmony | that was their fault totally |
| 21:12.58 | carmony | I'm also a *strong* believer that with Windows, the OS that comes with the machine is the OS you should use |
| 21:12.58 | mgeary | mindjuju: ^^ was that intended to sound ironic? "my 4th install of XP on this same box..." |
| 21:13.09 | carmony | Upgrading usually means your PC will run a lot slower |
| 21:13.29 | mindjuju | mgeary, you know me too well |
| 21:13.57 | carmony | a huge problem are OEMs loading total sh*t on their new laptops & pcs |
| 21:14.25 | mindjuju | carmony, historically, i don't think that's quite accurate |
| 21:14.39 | mindjuju | i know of a lot of boxes that performed better from win98 to xp |
| 21:15.03 | mindjuju | requirements were higher but if you had a decent 98 box and jumped to xp, then it did perform better |
| 21:16.32 | mindjuju | anyway, all was trying to say was that the commercials were funny |
| 21:16.47 | carmony | I agree the commercials are very good :) |
| 21:17.02 | carmony | from a marketing standpoint, they nailed them perfectly |
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| 21:48.22 | *** join/#uphpu carmony_ (n=justinca@c-67-164-249-224.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:49.23 | mindjuju | wow, stock up 413 points |
| 21:50.23 | SunSparc | ~spellcheck carmony |
| 21:50.31 | carmony_ | lol |
| 21:50.34 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:50.44 | mindjuju | maybe he meant he knocked over his coach and is now sitting on his coache's back |
| 21:50.54 | SunSparc | eating chilli |
| 21:51.02 | mindjuju | exactly |
| 21:51.21 | jsmith-teaching | He's eating Chile? |
| 21:51.34 | SunSparc | Quite a feat, I know. |
| 21:51.36 | mindjuju | sounds like it |
| 21:51.47 | SunSparc | I want to see him put down the Ande's |
| 21:51.49 | mindjuju | i wonder how the Chileans feel about it |
| 21:52.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:52.14 | mindjuju | Andes == Massive amounts of fiber |
| 21:52.18 | SunSparc | lol |
| 21:52.26 | SunSparc | That'll clean you out. |
| 21:52.38 | mindjuju | roto-rooter |
| 21:52.49 | SunSparc | Owie |
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| 22:33.46 | mindjuju | flu shot ... schmu shot, that's what i always say |
| 22:35.20 | mindjuju | it ALWAYS gets me *sometime* during the holiday season |
| 22:35.58 | carmony_ | bleh, I hate getting sick |
| 22:37.37 | SunSparc | ~sick carmony |
| 22:37.37 | jbot | ACTION fetches Hagrid's Fluffy and sicks Fluffy on carmony. |
| 22:38.11 | mindjuju | heh, wrong sick |
| 22:46.56 | dataw0lf | ha. I just got my flu shot an hour ago |
| 22:47.03 | dataw0lf | ~thank mom |
| 22:47.03 | jbot | de nada, dataw0lf |
| 22:47.28 | _psychic_ | jbot is dataw0lf's mom?! |
| 22:47.35 | mindjuju | i was just wondering that |
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| 22:48.01 | SunSparc | I new jbot was a girl |
| 22:48.12 | dataw0lf | it's a strange family tree |
| 22:51.09 | mindjuju | oh wow, looks like that ref was playing defense against the QB - http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Welcome-to-the-SEC-Stephen-Garcia-Signed-your?urn=ncaaf,115984 |
| 22:51.28 | mindjuju | he don't look like he's bracing, he looks like he's taking out the guy |
| 22:52.48 | dataw0lf | well it's the SEC. |
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| 23:32.29 | thebigdog | oh yeah great game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmLRiLwfqyc |
| 23:40.51 | mindjuju1 | that was pretty cool thebigdog |
| 23:41.32 | thebigdog | it was a great game |
| 23:41.42 | thebigdog | i got 2nd row in section 5 |
| 23:42.20 | mindjuju1 | that's cool that you were there |
| 23:42.24 | mindjuju1 | how much are tickets? |
| 23:47.03 | jsmith | Wow... looks like an awesome game |
| 23:59.56 | thebigdog | i got them for $25 each |
